WEBVTT - Don Lemon Writes About God 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:05.240 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:09.960 Thing from iHeart Radio. The last few years have seen 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.360 drastic changes in the rapidly evolving landscape of cable and 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:18.119 streaming television. You know the times have changed when even 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:22.400 the news is making news. At CNN, there were reports 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:27.160 of chaos and uncertainty, the sudden resignation of President Jeff Zucker, 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.400 followed by the installation of his successor, Chris Licked, and 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:35.800 drastic changes to their lineup. One of the biggest changes 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.320 moving my guest Today. CNN Tonight anchored Don Lemon to 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:45.440 Mornings after a decade in prime time. Shortly after, Lemon 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:50.200 made some controversial comments on air and was unceremoniously fired 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.640 from the network seventeen years into his tenure. Now, he 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.120 has released a book, I Once Was Lost My Search 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.560 for God in America, a day deeply personal journey of 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.920 his faith through difficult times that also takes a hard 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.080 look at politics and religion in America today. The Emmy 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.720 winning journalist launched a new series earlier this year, The 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:17.240 Don Lemon Show, on streaming podcast platforms and on YouTube. 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:20.280 I wanted to know how he made the decision of 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.200 where to launch his new show. 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.600 YouTube is the number one network in the world. It 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.560 has surpassed Netflix. It's because everyone has that computer in 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.240 their pocket, and that is the new television. It's the 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:36.000 same thing you watch it, but it's just a different 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.759 form of distribution. So if I can go there, create 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:42.240 content and pretty much do exactly what I want to do, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:42.800 why not? 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:44.360 And that's why I chose YouTube. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.800 Also, Alec, I have some contractual obligations. As you know, 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:50.840 you're in the business, you have non competes and all 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:52.960 of that. So I had to find a place where 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.600 I could go and do what I do and create 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.400 my cable non network that doesn't compete with my contract 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:00.320 at the old place. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.400 Now I want to touch on that, I'm going to 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.400 We've got two things here, obviously, career and faith. The 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.639 book is called I Once Was Lost, and I went 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.200 to your book signing event where you were interviewed by Zucker, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:14.639 who was very funny. By the way, I was surprised. 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.320 He's very good. So you go to YouTube overcly there's 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.000 a non compete aspect in there, but to describe your 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.120 career in television and when that ended, what ended? You 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:30.239 started at CNN. What year two thousand and six and 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.560 you started doing what I started. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.160 As let's see, Oh wow, it's been so long ago. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:37.760 Two thousand and six. I was the afternoon anchor on 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.400 CNN Newsroom from one to four in the afternoon, And 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.040 you did that for how long? I did that for 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:45.639 about eight years or so? 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:46.160 Eight years? 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.560 Yeah, yeah, thirteen to fourteen. I moved on. 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:49.240 I moved to New York. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.320 I was in Atlanta, and you move on to do 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.639 what show? I moved on to do. I did weekend 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.800 evenings for a while to sort of create, you know, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.560 get my own voice, develop my own voice. And then 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.520 Jeff Souker took over and said, hey, you're pretty talented. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.440 Who was in charge of before Zucker Jim Walton was 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.480 ahead of the network here, and Zuker took over, and 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:07.920 he wanted you want in the evening? He put you 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:10.360 on in the evening. Yes, I went to Zucker because 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:13.400 I did. I hated Atlanta and I'm a New Yorker 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.000 even though I grew up in Louisiana, I'm a New 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.280 Yorker by heart. And I said, hey, listen, it's been 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.240 great working here. I'm out of here, I said, I 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:23.919 can't live in Atlanta anymore. So thanks, you know, I'm 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:25.520 glad you just took over the network. Blah blah blah 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:28.120 blah he said, he said, yeah, he said, you don't 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:29.919 have to You're moving to New York. 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:31.840 And that was it. And you did the evening on 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.919 the weekends, and then you did your evening show starting 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:35.120 when how long was he so weekends? 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.080 I did the evenings on the weekends for a while. 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.880 I think I did the evenings for you know, five years. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.320 Look the afternoon, I'm sort of, you know, sort of 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.440 mixing that in the evening because I started the evening 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.840 in Atlanta and then I continue the evening in New York. 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.360 And Jeff would sort of mentor me, you know, because 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.400 he's he watched twenty four hours a day, so breaking 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.880 news tell you. He would say, breaking news, I need 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:58.680 you to stay on for another hour. We're going to 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.000 blow out the medical ship and need you to stay 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.440 on and do this, repeat the breaking news. 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:03.720 You know. 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.440 Or he didn't coach about style, No, no, not at all, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:07.520 because he liked my style. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:08.360 He liked me being me. 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.760 He's he would if anything, he would say, lean into it, 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.960 so he would say, you know, recap, tell the audience 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.200 you know it's breaking news, what it is. He wouldn't 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.840 tell me what to say. He would say a good 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.000 question might be something like this, and I wouldn't ask it, 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.880 you know, exactly as he would say if I wanted 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:26.280 to do it. But he wouldn't get upset if I 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:26.760 didn't do it. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.600 So you could do audibles like quarterbacks. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.359 Yes, I could. And then he started. I had me 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.000 filling in on every single show. I'd fill in the afternoon, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.400 I'd fill in the morning, I would do my evening show, 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.360 and he would send me on big stories and he 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:39.599 was he really developed me. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.120 And you started doing your show, the big show, the 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:43.599 evening show. 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.920 Win I started doing my show. Aaron Burnett went out 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.880 on maternity leave and Jeff said, I want you to 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.120 take over for her from maternity leave. So her entire 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.479 couple months she was off, I filled in seven o'clock show. 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.919 It was me and I did my weekend show. So 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.400 I was working seven days a week and I didn't 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:00.680 mind it. 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:02.800 I loved it. Actually, you're doing the mornings, and you're 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.600 doing and morning shows, which have become so bizarre to me, 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.040 I know, I said to people, and I love all 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.080 these people. I mean, I love Katie Cork. But the 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.520 last time I watched the Today Show was when Katie 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.359 Cork was on with lour and they did a I 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.440 guess maybe it was for Halloween. They all dressed up 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.640 and clothing and they sang diamonds are a Girl's best 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.880 friend as she's walking down a staircase, a glittering staircase 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:26.680 or whatever, and I thought, I'm done. I don't know, 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:29.240 I want the news, maybe tell some jokes or whatever. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.560 But they turned it into an entertainment show. But mornings 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.320 it's obviously a different ball game. Even weekends, maybe you're 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.520 a different ballgame. So what adjustments do you have to 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.040 make in your style to be on in the evening? 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.800 Oh well, I'm an evening guy. The only reason I 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.240 did the mornings is because and you told me, you know, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.280 when I did the she said, no one wants to 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.160 see you in the morning, And you were right. I'm 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:49.920 not a morning person. I'm not very good in the morning. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:51.920 I'm not good on coffee. Caffeine makes me jittery. I 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:53.800 don't know what I'm saying or doing. So I did 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.360 it because my company asked me to do it, and 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.359 I was being a team player, but it was not 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:01.320 a good fit for me. The adjustment is is that 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.479 you're constantly sleeping. You have to get up. I'm a 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:05.920 night oul. I don't him to go to bed until 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:07.320 two or three in the morning, and I'm up at 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.279 you know, maybe ten right before I would you know, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:11.880 i'd have to wake up when I mean, when I 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.320 was doing the mornings, I have to wake up at 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.279 four in the morning, right, I know it'll be It 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.720 was really, really tough. So that's really the adjustment. I'm 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:20.880 a cool cat at night. I like it, and I 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.320 like that that late time slot. Working at night, I 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.359 do too, and I get my best idea yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:27.080 I do movies. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:29.039 And the guy said to me, we're in a black 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:32.839 box theater shooting this movie for all these scenes inside 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.719 this theater for a month in Florida. And he says, so, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.400 no windows, know nothing, no light dependent at all. He goes, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.160 we can shoot whenever we want. He goes, what time 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.000 you want to go to work? Love it? And I said, none, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.480 I'm going to shooting noon to midnight. Yeah. We did. 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.240 We shot noon to midnight for four weeks and I 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.440 was in heaven. I was like, man, I'm just getting going. 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.800 Yeah, I like about seven or eight at night, like 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.120 my best work. I don't wake up that late, but 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.360 my best work is at night. So having that ten 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.120 o'clock slot was perfect for me. And then you know, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.160 I was on until midnight every night, but that was 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:03.400 when I would get that energy. 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.760 And you like being solo. Oh, I love the co 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.680 anchors for a while. It's tough you didn't like that format. No, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.920 I'm a team player, but not in that way. I 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.960 have my own flow and everybody can't keep up with me, 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.520 you know, and and doubles tennis, they're not the best partner. Yeah, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.320 at your game, and you got to you gotta have 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:20.680 a good part of that. You have to have someone 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:21.560 who can keep up with you. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.000 And you know, I don't mean that in a you know, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.280 I'm not diminishing anyone, but someone like a Kara Swisher 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.760 personal Yeah, like someone like a Kara Swisher or a 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:32.880 Joy Behar or someone they could keep up with me. 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:35.600 They get my sense of humor and they don't take 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.040 anything personally and they can give it or take it 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:39.480 as good as they give it, right, you know what 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:39.800 I mean? 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:41.320 I love that kind of but they didn't want to 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.440 demonize or criminalize your moderances. 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.760 No, because they they under they they their pals and 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:48.240 they get me. 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:49.480 It's not personal. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.640 It's just we're just we're just sitting having a conversation 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.440 and people say all kinds of things and conversations and 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:55.240 it's not personal. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.240 It's just your talking. And when you talk, you say 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:57.600 things and you. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.800 Go, ah, I don't mean that, Okay, all right, right, 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:02.400 so I said some shit, that was great, whatever, and 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.600 you just move on. But you can't do that with everybody, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.120 because you know, especially like younger folks, everything is like 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:09.480 a personal affront. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.680 Well, you walk in on the set of a project, 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:15.920 and when you're around young people, I find that there's 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.200 a potential for certain difficulties. So I've never had any 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.280 problems with this myself. I never had any I've had 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.840 other problems obviously, but not that one. And you walk 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.920 onto the set, especially of a film, and you're there 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.800 and people they're tents. You don't realize how tense there. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.120 They're scared younger people. You come on and there. I mean, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.959 I've made whatever number of movies, I made one hundred movies, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.520 ninety movies, whatever. I take pictures with people now, But 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.760 I got taught by somebody famous. You put your arm 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.800 out and they hook their elbow around your elbow, and 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:44.679 they go, why do you want to do that? A 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:46.120 few of them would say, and I say, I can't 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.160 put my hand behind your body, and you got it. 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.199 My hand can't be hidden behind your back in the 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.160 photogo all the games you got to play now? Which 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:53.720 are which? Was not concerned? 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.360 No, but you're right about that. You said you've done 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.719 so many movies. I had been. I think I was 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.640 doing the afternoons from six about nine, and then I 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.160 started doing the weekend evenings, and so I'd been doing 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.000 the weekend evenings. I'd been solo, I should say, from 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.360 about two thousand and nine to twenty twenty three or 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.040 twenty twenty two, and so I was just used to 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.640 my own flow and people, you know, were used to 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.439 me just being me, and so I had been there 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.400 for quite some time solo anchor. And you know, people 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.120 come in and they're like they you know, they don't 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:23.400 get it. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.400 You know, now when you do a show like that 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.400 for people who don't know, because I find this behind 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.120 the scenes very interesting. You come in there you come in. 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:31.880 The show was on the air at ten. The big 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.200 show was on a ten. He did the pass too 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.400 with Chris, and then everybody thought that was very entertaining 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:37.839 the two of you. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.160 It's the biggest compliment that people say about that and 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.400 about my show. They say that was the last appointment 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:48.560 television for the network. Was that handoff and then going 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:49.240 on the show. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.880 Yeah. But the thing that people don't understand is you 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:52.720 get there what time? 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.120 It would depend. If I had a pre tape, I 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.040 would go in earlier. But at the end I moved 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.280 across the street from the office, so it would take 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:03.760 me literally a minute, minute and a half to be 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.120 on the set because I lived and it was in 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.600 huts and yards. So I would go to work probably 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.640 about eight eight thirty. 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:12.439 So You're out there at three o'clock writing. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.080 No, I'm doing that from home, got it because basically 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.040 my office is not much further from the set than 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.480 my home was. But before that, I would probably get 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.520 to work about six, right And the reason I did 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.600 that part of it was because of Jeff. Jeff said, 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:28.480 why are you working on the show so early? 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:29.040 Your show? 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:30.640 Why are you guys in the morning meeting the morning 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.040 meetings at nine in the morning. Your show is twelve 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.400 hours away, a half a day away. Everything's going to 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:38.400 change exactly, So what are you doing? And I found 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.800 that when I would study for all of this stuff 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:43.719 and just study, study, study, and over prepare, and then 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.720 by the time the show came about at ten o'clock, 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:46.679 it would be a whole different show. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.079 And I'd say, why the hell didn't know? Would I 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.679 do this? You got to be more plod set, to 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.120 learn to be nimble. Now you're there doing a show 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.120 like that. How much do director I'm talk about technical 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.559 directors with cameras in a studio? Are the directors, segment producers, writers? 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.560 Who's got your ear in terms of content while you're 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.760 doing the show? So it's my executive producer? And how 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.040 many of those did you have when you were on 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:07.480 the big show? 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.319 I had one executive producer who is and then Maria Spanella, 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.040 and then I had my own personal producer, and then 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.280 there were segment producers. And so if there was a 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:18.240 segment that someone had prepared and they needed to be 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.280 in the control room, usually they stood there anyways, and 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:21.920 so the segment producer would get in my ear. But 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.680 usually it was the executive producer, but sometimes they would say, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.160 you know, I would say it was nineteen times and 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.040 they'd go ninety ninety and I'm going because sometimes you 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.040 don't realize what you say right. You'll just read something 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.080 wrong or you just say something wrong, and so they 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.760 would correct me. But it was mostly the director and 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.839 the executive producer, and mostly the director who would say, okay, 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.320 thirty seconds out, ten seconds out camera two, so start 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.400 on camera two and I'm going to turn you to three. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.839 Stand by, you know, the whole thing, three two and 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.439 go camera one, turn and then you do that that 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.080 sort of thing, right, And then you know, they would 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.240 say yeah, and you'd say you know, and it's fourteen 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:00.079 people and they'd say graphic and I'd go, take to 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:01.960 look at your screen, that it's up on the screen 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.160 right now, blah blah blah blah blah, and then you 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:05.920 talk about blah. And then they'd say on cam and 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:07.360 then I'd look back up and go, okay. 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.920 Then just someone's directing your performance. Yeah, directing. 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.480 They just just to know where I'm going. 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.640 Technically, right, but they're directing your your tone or no. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.199 If I was off on something, someone would say she 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.120 says something she'd say like, all right, watch it up, 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.800 wastch your tone? Yeah, or yeah, you're you're dragging a 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.160 little bit. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:24.760 Are you tired? 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:26.439 Whatever you want us to bring? You want us to 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.520 bring your coffee, diet coke or something, yeah, Or I'm 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.800 gonna send makeup in. You're shiny, but that sort of thing. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.120 That's it small small. 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.920 Now I'm assuming that when Licked comes in, this is 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.120 just zas Love wants things his way. This is his 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:40.719 magiem it's now it's going to be my CNN. So 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.160 Zucker's gone and he brings Licked in and when Zucker's 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.120 gonna gone? How much advanced notice did you have the 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.839 Zuker was leaving? Oh that I mean that was in 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.559 the news, right, so not much. Did you know when 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.599 he was going to be gone and someone else was 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:55.839 coming in who was going to run the company? You 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:56.240 didn't know. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.280 No, no one, no one, No one gave you what 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.599 any dance. No, it was in the it was in 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.439 the morning meeting. When it happened. I was in La, 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:04.719 and I forget what I was doing. It made have 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:05.760 an award season or something. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:06.080 I forget. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.920 I was in La doing a project for the network, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.959 and I took the Red Eye and I got home 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.719 and went to sleep, and I woke up to a 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.679 lot of text messages and I was like, wait, what 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.920 is this. It always happens that way. That happened that 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.520 way when when Chris was let go, Chris linked and 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.360 my executive Priss said, don Jeff just resigned in the 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.160 morning meeting, and I was like, wait what And then 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:32.679 he called me and he said I didn't have a 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.480 chance to tell you whatever, blah blah blah. And you know, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.440 he called everybody afterwards, but he did. I don't think 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.800 he really had any notice himself, right, Yeah. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:41.120 Well, I kind of equate him. This is just my opinion, 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:42.959 by the way, which is meaningless, but I kind of 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.680 equate him with Ronnie Meyer when they let Ronnie Meyer 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.800 go for similar reasons his personal life, and you want 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.280 to sit there and you want to go, well, I'm 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.400 running a company now and I'd like this guy to go, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.439 and that's my excuse to let him go. And I 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:57.160 really was going to bring in another guy because I 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.439 want my I want to run my CNN, but he's gone, 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.240 like Universal, I think Ronnie Meyer hit the point where 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.920 he was making like forty million dollars a year, and. 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.800 They were like, no, yeah, we need you to go. Look, 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.920 I'll let you say that. But you're a smart guy. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.000 So but here, you know, Jeff is the last of 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:17.240 a TV executive, the celebrity TV executive Mavericks. Right, everyone 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.880 is so risk averse now they're afraid, you know, they're 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.960 with the stockholders wanting all that. He really protected us 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.600 from the overlords, right from the corporate you know overlords. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.160 He really did his guts, his guts and he's like, 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.600 you know, this is journalism. I understand what you do 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.400 because he did what they did, right. He ran NBC 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.640 and he understood it. But he's really a journalist at 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.560 heart because he started at the Today Show and he 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.520 started in the news person there. He had a good 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:46.960 run there, and then he went to run the news 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.560 division at NBC, and then he entertainment. Then he ran 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:52.840 the entire network. So he really and we didn't realize it, 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.800 you know, until he was gone. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.800 When Licked comes, like most executives, I assume when you're 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.800 the top tier talent on the show that they come with. 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.480 Is it like dinners and whining and dining and getting 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.080 to know each other and everything's well and you don't 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:07.520 really know where it's going to go, and then it 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.000 goes the wrong way. Yeah, there's a little of that. Yeah, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.000 there's a little of that. It's polite, it's polite, yeah 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.360 in the beginning. Yeah, and then things changed, right. Well, 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.080 I mean I just find that odd because I just 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.000 feel like I won't name names, but I've known a 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.440 couple of people who are execs at film studios, especially TV, 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.040 where the that conveyor belt is moving and they can't 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.040 press pause. They have a plan which seems to be 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:32.080 everybody's plan. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:32.320 Now. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.320 Years ago it was a plan. Now it's everybody's plan, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.160 which is, if I can't raise revenue, I got to 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.960 cut costs. So it's just a lot of firing, a 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:40.000 lot of budget cutting. 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.040 But don't you think to a certain extent that when 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.960 your job is protected and mentioned in the First Amendment, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.280 that there should be some exemption from that whole thing. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.760 Like I don't think the news division should be solely 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.320 or wholly in large part driven by revenue and numbers, 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:01.520 numbers and ratings. It shouldn't because you're supposed to give information, 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.920 you're supposed to hold people who are in power hold 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:05.560 into account. 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.800 But you told me that when we were at the 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.720 book party. I raised my hand, I asked the question. 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.280 I said, the networks and traditional media, mainstream media, have 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.000 they lost young people? And you said, they haven't lost, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.360 but they're losing. And then you went on to talk 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.040 about the people who are considered through some research who 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.920 quoted to being about being the most informed people get 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:24.960 their news from where. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.360 They get their news digitally? Right, Yeah, and listen, the 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.640 older people get their news from you know, they watch, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.560 they sit they they watch cable news all day, they 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:34.760 watch six thirty or they you know, they're watching the 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:36.920 morning shows or they're doing that. Younger people are getting 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.200