1 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. The last few years have seen 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: drastic changes in the rapidly evolving landscape of cable and 4 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: streaming television. You know the times have changed when even 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: the news is making news. At CNN, there were reports 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: of chaos and uncertainty, the sudden resignation of President Jeff Zucker, 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: followed by the installation of his successor, Chris Licked, and 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: drastic changes to their lineup. One of the biggest changes 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: moving my guest Today. CNN Tonight anchored Don Lemon to 10 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Mornings after a decade in prime time. Shortly after, Lemon 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 1: made some controversial comments on air and was unceremoniously fired 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: from the network seventeen years into his tenure. Now, he 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: has released a book, I Once Was Lost My Search 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: for God in America, a day deeply personal journey of 15 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: his faith through difficult times that also takes a hard 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: look at politics and religion in America today. The Emmy 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: winning journalist launched a new series earlier this year, The 18 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: Don Lemon Show, on streaming podcast platforms and on YouTube. 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: I wanted to know how he made the decision of 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: where to launch his new show. 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: YouTube is the number one network in the world. It 22 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 2: has surpassed Netflix. It's because everyone has that computer in 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: their pocket, and that is the new television. It's the 24 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: same thing you watch it, but it's just a different 25 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 2: form of distribution. So if I can go there, create 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: content and pretty much do exactly what I want to do, 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: why not? 28 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: And that's why I chose YouTube. 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: Also, Alec, I have some contractual obligations. As you know, 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: you're in the business, you have non competes and all 31 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: of that. So I had to find a place where 32 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: I could go and do what I do and create 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: my cable non network that doesn't compete with my contract 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 2: at the old place. 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: Now I want to touch on that, I'm going to 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: We've got two things here, obviously, career and faith. The 37 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: book is called I Once Was Lost, and I went 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: to your book signing event where you were interviewed by Zucker, 39 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: who was very funny. By the way, I was surprised. 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: He's very good. So you go to YouTube overcly there's 41 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: a non compete aspect in there, but to describe your 42 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: career in television and when that ended, what ended? You 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: started at CNN. What year two thousand and six and 44 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: you started doing what I started. 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: As let's see, Oh wow, it's been so long ago. 46 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: Two thousand and six. I was the afternoon anchor on 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: CNN Newsroom from one to four in the afternoon, And 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: you did that for how long? I did that for 49 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: about eight years or so? 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: Eight years? 51 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thirteen to fourteen. I moved on. 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: I moved to New York. 53 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: I was in Atlanta, and you move on to do 54 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 2: what show? I moved on to do. I did weekend 55 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: evenings for a while to sort of create, you know, 56 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 2: get my own voice, develop my own voice. And then 57 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 2: Jeff Souker took over and said, hey, you're pretty talented. 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: Who was in charge of before Zucker Jim Walton was 59 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: ahead of the network here, and Zuker took over, and 60 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 2: he wanted you want in the evening? He put you 61 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: on in the evening. Yes, I went to Zucker because 62 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: I did. I hated Atlanta and I'm a New Yorker 63 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: even though I grew up in Louisiana, I'm a New 64 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: Yorker by heart. And I said, hey, listen, it's been 65 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: great working here. I'm out of here, I said, I 66 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: can't live in Atlanta anymore. So thanks, you know, I'm 67 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: glad you just took over the network. Blah blah blah 68 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: blah he said, he said, yeah, he said, you don't 69 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 2: have to You're moving to New York. 70 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: And that was it. And you did the evening on 71 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: the weekends, and then you did your evening show starting 72 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: when how long was he so weekends? 73 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 2: I did the evenings on the weekends for a while. 74 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: I think I did the evenings for you know, five years. 75 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: Look the afternoon, I'm sort of, you know, sort of 76 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 2: mixing that in the evening because I started the evening 77 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: in Atlanta and then I continue the evening in New York. 78 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: And Jeff would sort of mentor me, you know, because 79 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: he's he watched twenty four hours a day, so breaking 80 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: news tell you. He would say, breaking news, I need 81 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: you to stay on for another hour. We're going to 82 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: blow out the medical ship and need you to stay 83 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: on and do this, repeat the breaking news. 84 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: You know. 85 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: Or he didn't coach about style, No, no, not at all, 86 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: because he liked my style. 87 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: He liked me being me. 88 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: He's he would if anything, he would say, lean into it, 89 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: so he would say, you know, recap, tell the audience 90 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: you know it's breaking news, what it is. He wouldn't 91 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 2: tell me what to say. He would say a good 92 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 2: question might be something like this, and I wouldn't ask it, 93 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 2: you know, exactly as he would say if I wanted 94 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: to do it. But he wouldn't get upset if I 95 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: didn't do it. 96 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: So you could do audibles like quarterbacks. 97 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 2: Yes, I could. And then he started. I had me 98 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: filling in on every single show. I'd fill in the afternoon, 99 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 2: I'd fill in the morning, I would do my evening show, 100 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: and he would send me on big stories and he 101 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: was he really developed me. 102 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: And you started doing your show, the big show, the 103 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: evening show. 104 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: Win I started doing my show. Aaron Burnett went out 105 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: on maternity leave and Jeff said, I want you to 106 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: take over for her from maternity leave. So her entire 107 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: couple months she was off, I filled in seven o'clock show. 108 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 2: It was me and I did my weekend show. So 109 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: I was working seven days a week and I didn't 110 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: mind it. 111 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: I loved it. Actually, you're doing the mornings, and you're 112 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: doing and morning shows, which have become so bizarre to me, 113 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: I know, I said to people, and I love all 114 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: these people. I mean, I love Katie Cork. But the 115 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: last time I watched the Today Show was when Katie 116 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: Cork was on with lour and they did a I 117 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: guess maybe it was for Halloween. They all dressed up 118 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: and clothing and they sang diamonds are a Girl's best 119 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: friend as she's walking down a staircase, a glittering staircase 120 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: or whatever, and I thought, I'm done. I don't know, 121 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: I want the news, maybe tell some jokes or whatever. 122 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: But they turned it into an entertainment show. But mornings 123 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: it's obviously a different ball game. Even weekends, maybe you're 124 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: a different ballgame. So what adjustments do you have to 125 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 1: make in your style to be on in the evening? 126 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm an evening guy. The only reason I 127 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: did the mornings is because and you told me, you know, 128 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,280 Speaker 2: when I did the she said, no one wants to 129 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 2: see you in the morning, And you were right. I'm 130 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 2: not a morning person. I'm not very good in the morning. 131 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: I'm not good on coffee. Caffeine makes me jittery. I 132 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: don't know what I'm saying or doing. So I did 133 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: it because my company asked me to do it, and 134 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 2: I was being a team player, but it was not 135 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: a good fit for me. The adjustment is is that 136 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 2: you're constantly sleeping. You have to get up. I'm a 137 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: night oul. I don't him to go to bed until 138 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: two or three in the morning, and I'm up at 139 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: you know, maybe ten right before I would you know, 140 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 2: i'd have to wake up when I mean, when I 141 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: was doing the mornings, I have to wake up at 142 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: four in the morning, right, I know it'll be It 143 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 2: was really, really tough. So that's really the adjustment. I'm 144 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: a cool cat at night. I like it, and I 145 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: like that that late time slot. Working at night, I 146 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,359 Speaker 2: do too, and I get my best idea yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, 147 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: I do movies. 148 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: And the guy said to me, we're in a black 149 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: box theater shooting this movie for all these scenes inside 150 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: this theater for a month in Florida. And he says, so, 151 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: no windows, know nothing, no light dependent at all. He goes, 152 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: we can shoot whenever we want. He goes, what time 153 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: you want to go to work? Love it? And I said, none, 154 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to shooting noon to midnight. Yeah. We did. 155 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: We shot noon to midnight for four weeks and I 156 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: was in heaven. I was like, man, I'm just getting going. 157 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like about seven or eight at night, like 158 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: my best work. I don't wake up that late, but 159 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: my best work is at night. So having that ten 160 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 2: o'clock slot was perfect for me. And then you know, 161 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 2: I was on until midnight every night, but that was 162 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 2: when I would get that energy. 163 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: And you like being solo. Oh, I love the co 164 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: anchors for a while. It's tough you didn't like that format. No, 165 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: I'm a team player, but not in that way. I 166 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: have my own flow and everybody can't keep up with me, 167 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, and and doubles tennis, they're not the best partner. Yeah, 168 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: at your game, and you got to you gotta have 169 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: a good part of that. You have to have someone 170 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: who can keep up with you. 171 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: And you know, I don't mean that in a you know, 172 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: I'm not diminishing anyone, but someone like a Kara Swisher 173 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: personal Yeah, like someone like a Kara Swisher or a 174 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: Joy Behar or someone they could keep up with me. 175 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: They get my sense of humor and they don't take 176 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: anything personally and they can give it or take it 177 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: as good as they give it, right, you know what 178 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: I mean? 179 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: I love that kind of but they didn't want to 180 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: demonize or criminalize your moderances. 181 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 2: No, because they they under they they their pals and 182 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: they get me. 183 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: It's not personal. 184 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: It's just we're just we're just sitting having a conversation 185 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: and people say all kinds of things and conversations and 186 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: it's not personal. 187 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: It's just your talking. And when you talk, you say 188 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: things and you. 189 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 2: Go, ah, I don't mean that, Okay, all right, right, 190 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 2: so I said some shit, that was great, whatever, and 191 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: you just move on. But you can't do that with everybody, 192 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 2: because you know, especially like younger folks, everything is like 193 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: a personal affront. 194 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: Well, you walk in on the set of a project, 195 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: and when you're around young people, I find that there's 196 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: a potential for certain difficulties. So I've never had any 197 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: problems with this myself. I never had any I've had 198 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: other problems obviously, but not that one. And you walk 199 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: onto the set, especially of a film, and you're there 200 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: and people they're tents. You don't realize how tense there. 201 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: They're scared younger people. You come on and there. I mean, 202 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: I've made whatever number of movies, I made one hundred movies, 203 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: ninety movies, whatever. I take pictures with people now, But 204 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: I got taught by somebody famous. You put your arm 205 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: out and they hook their elbow around your elbow, and 206 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: they go, why do you want to do that? A 207 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: few of them would say, and I say, I can't 208 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: put my hand behind your body, and you got it. 209 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: My hand can't be hidden behind your back in the 210 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: photogo all the games you got to play now? Which 211 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: are which? Was not concerned? 212 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 2: No, but you're right about that. You said you've done 213 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: so many movies. I had been. I think I was 214 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: doing the afternoons from six about nine, and then I 215 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: started doing the weekend evenings, and so I'd been doing 216 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: the weekend evenings. I'd been solo, I should say, from 217 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: about two thousand and nine to twenty twenty three or 218 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and so I was just used to 219 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: my own flow and people, you know, were used to 220 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 2: me just being me, and so I had been there 221 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: for quite some time solo anchor. And you know, people 222 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: come in and they're like they you know, they don't 223 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 2: get it. 224 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: You know, now when you do a show like that 225 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: for people who don't know, because I find this behind 226 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: the scenes very interesting. You come in there you come in. 227 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: The show was on the air at ten. The big 228 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: show was on a ten. He did the pass too 229 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: with Chris, and then everybody thought that was very entertaining 230 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: the two of you. 231 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: It's the biggest compliment that people say about that and 232 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: about my show. They say that was the last appointment 233 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 2: television for the network. Was that handoff and then going 234 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: on the show. 235 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. But the thing that people don't understand is you 236 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: get there what time? 237 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 2: It would depend. If I had a pre tape, I 238 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: would go in earlier. But at the end I moved 239 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 2: across the street from the office, so it would take 240 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: me literally a minute, minute and a half to be 241 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 2: on the set because I lived and it was in 242 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: huts and yards. So I would go to work probably 243 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: about eight eight thirty. 244 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: So You're out there at three o'clock writing. 245 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: No, I'm doing that from home, got it because basically 246 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 2: my office is not much further from the set than 247 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: my home was. But before that, I would probably get 248 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: to work about six, right And the reason I did 249 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: that part of it was because of Jeff. Jeff said, 250 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: why are you working on the show so early? 251 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: Your show? 252 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 2: Why are you guys in the morning meeting the morning 253 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: meetings at nine in the morning. Your show is twelve 254 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: hours away, a half a day away. Everything's going to 255 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: change exactly, So what are you doing? And I found 256 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: that when I would study for all of this stuff 257 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 2: and just study, study, study, and over prepare, and then 258 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 2: by the time the show came about at ten o'clock, 259 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: it would be a whole different show. 260 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: And I'd say, why the hell didn't know? Would I 261 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: do this? You got to be more plod set, to 262 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: learn to be nimble. Now you're there doing a show 263 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: like that. How much do director I'm talk about technical 264 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: directors with cameras in a studio? Are the directors, segment producers, writers? 265 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: Who's got your ear in terms of content while you're 266 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: doing the show? So it's my executive producer? And how 267 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: many of those did you have when you were on 268 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: the big show? 269 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 2: I had one executive producer who is and then Maria Spanella, 270 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: and then I had my own personal producer, and then 271 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: there were segment producers. And so if there was a 272 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 2: segment that someone had prepared and they needed to be 273 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: in the control room, usually they stood there anyways, and 274 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 2: so the segment producer would get in my ear. But 275 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 2: usually it was the executive producer, but sometimes they would say, 276 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: you know, I would say it was nineteen times and 277 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: they'd go ninety ninety and I'm going because sometimes you 278 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: don't realize what you say right. You'll just read something 279 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 2: wrong or you just say something wrong, and so they 280 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: would correct me. But it was mostly the director and 281 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 2: the executive producer, and mostly the director who would say, okay, 282 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: thirty seconds out, ten seconds out camera two, so start 283 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: on camera two and I'm going to turn you to three. 284 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 2: Stand by, you know, the whole thing, three two and 285 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: go camera one, turn and then you do that that 286 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: sort of thing, right, And then you know, they would 287 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: say yeah, and you'd say you know, and it's fourteen 288 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 2: people and they'd say graphic and I'd go, take to 289 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: look at your screen, that it's up on the screen 290 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: right now, blah blah blah blah blah, and then you 291 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 2: talk about blah. And then they'd say on cam and 292 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: then I'd look back up and go, okay. 293 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: Then just someone's directing your performance. Yeah, directing. 294 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: They just just to know where I'm going. 295 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: Technically, right, but they're directing your your tone or no. 296 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 2: If I was off on something, someone would say she 297 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: says something she'd say like, all right, watch it up, 298 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: wastch your tone? Yeah, or yeah, you're you're dragging a 299 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: little bit. 300 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: Are you tired? 301 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 2: Whatever you want us to bring? You want us to 302 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 2: bring your coffee, diet coke or something, yeah, Or I'm 303 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: gonna send makeup in. You're shiny, but that sort of thing. 304 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 2: That's it small small. 305 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: Now I'm assuming that when Licked comes in, this is 306 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: just zas Love wants things his way. This is his 307 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: magiem it's now it's going to be my CNN. So 308 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: Zucker's gone and he brings Licked in and when Zucker's 309 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: gonna gone? How much advanced notice did you have the 310 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 1: Zuker was leaving? Oh that I mean that was in 311 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: the news, right, so not much. Did you know when 312 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,599 Speaker 1: he was going to be gone and someone else was 313 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: coming in who was going to run the company? You 314 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: didn't know. 315 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: No, no one, no one, No one gave you what 316 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,599 Speaker 2: any dance. No, it was in the it was in 317 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: the morning meeting. When it happened. I was in La, 318 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 2: and I forget what I was doing. It made have 319 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: an award season or something. 320 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: I forget. 321 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: I was in La doing a project for the network, 322 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 2: and I took the Red Eye and I got home 323 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,719 Speaker 2: and went to sleep, and I woke up to a 324 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 2: lot of text messages and I was like, wait, what 325 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: is this. It always happens that way. That happened that 326 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: way when when Chris was let go, Chris linked and 327 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: my executive Priss said, don Jeff just resigned in the 328 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: morning meeting, and I was like, wait what And then 329 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 2: he called me and he said I didn't have a 330 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: chance to tell you whatever, blah blah blah. And you know, 331 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 2: he called everybody afterwards, but he did. I don't think 332 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: he really had any notice himself, right, Yeah. 333 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: Well, I kind of equate him. This is just my opinion, 334 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: by the way, which is meaningless, but I kind of 335 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: equate him with Ronnie Meyer when they let Ronnie Meyer 336 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: go for similar reasons his personal life, and you want 337 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: to sit there and you want to go, well, I'm 338 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: running a company now and I'd like this guy to go, 339 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: and that's my excuse to let him go. And I 340 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: really was going to bring in another guy because I 341 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: want my I want to run my CNN, but he's gone, 342 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: like Universal, I think Ronnie Meyer hit the point where 343 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: he was making like forty million dollars a year, and. 344 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: They were like, no, yeah, we need you to go. Look, 345 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: I'll let you say that. But you're a smart guy. 346 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: So but here, you know, Jeff is the last of 347 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 2: a TV executive, the celebrity TV executive Mavericks. Right, everyone 348 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 2: is so risk averse now they're afraid, you know, they're 349 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 2: with the stockholders wanting all that. He really protected us 350 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: from the overlords, right from the corporate you know overlords. 351 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: He really did his guts, his guts and he's like, 352 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, this is journalism. I understand what you do 353 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: because he did what they did, right. He ran NBC 354 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: and he understood it. But he's really a journalist at 355 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: heart because he started at the Today Show and he 356 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: started in the news person there. He had a good 357 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: run there, and then he went to run the news 358 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 2: division at NBC, and then he entertainment. Then he ran 359 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 2: the entire network. So he really and we didn't realize it, 360 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: you know, until he was gone. 361 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: When Licked comes, like most executives, I assume when you're 362 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: the top tier talent on the show that they come with. 363 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: Is it like dinners and whining and dining and getting 364 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: to know each other and everything's well and you don't 365 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: really know where it's going to go, and then it 366 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: goes the wrong way. Yeah, there's a little of that. Yeah, 367 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: there's a little of that. It's polite, it's polite, yeah 368 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: in the beginning. Yeah, and then things changed, right. Well, 369 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: I mean I just find that odd because I just 370 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: feel like I won't name names, but I've known a 371 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: couple of people who are execs at film studios, especially TV, 372 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: where the that conveyor belt is moving and they can't 373 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: press pause. They have a plan which seems to be 374 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: everybody's plan. 375 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: Now. 376 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: Years ago it was a plan. Now it's everybody's plan, 377 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: which is, if I can't raise revenue, I got to 378 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: cut costs. So it's just a lot of firing, a 379 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: lot of budget cutting. 380 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: But don't you think to a certain extent that when 381 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: your job is protected and mentioned in the First Amendment, 382 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: that there should be some exemption from that whole thing. 383 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: Like I don't think the news division should be solely 384 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 2: or wholly in large part driven by revenue and numbers, 385 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: numbers and ratings. It shouldn't because you're supposed to give information, 386 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: you're supposed to hold people who are in power hold 387 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: into account. 388 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: But you told me that when we were at the 389 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: book party. I raised my hand, I asked the question. 390 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: I said, the networks and traditional media, mainstream media, have 391 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: they lost young people? And you said, they haven't lost, 392 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: but they're losing. And then you went on to talk 393 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: about the people who are considered through some research who 394 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: quoted to being about being the most informed people get 395 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: their news from where. 396 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 2: They get their news digitally? Right, Yeah, and listen, the 397 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 2: older people get their news from you know, they watch, 398 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 2: they sit they they watch cable news all day, they 399 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 2: watch six thirty or they you know, they're watching the 400 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: morning shows or they're doing that. Younger people are getting 401 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: their news on TikTok or whatever. But the most informed 402 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 2: people are they'll go on digitally. They'll watch something on YouTube, 403 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 2: They'll watch whatever, even if they go to you know, 404 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: Twitter or TikTok or whatever. But then they'll do their 405 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: research and they are media literate and more media savvy. 406 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 2: I find the people who sit in front of the 407 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 2: television all day have an unconscious or built in bias 408 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 2: because you can tell from whatever network they're watching. But 409 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: by the time they get to the arguments around the table, 410 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: the panels they don't know what they actually came there for, 411 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: what the point of the whole segment was. 412 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: That's what they conveyed to me. Well, the shows which 413 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 1: are moderated shows, which are these s mash pits, and 414 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: everybody's going at it. I think more and more people 415 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: that realize now that it's not worth their time. I 416 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: always say to people, what do I watch? I said, 417 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: I watch Wolf Blitzer straight. I call them straight no chaser, right, right, right, 418 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: it's just like happening now. Just tell me what the 419 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: stop stories are and then I want to go have 420 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: dinner with my wife. You know, give me ten fifteen 421 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: minutes on my couch. I watched in every night. Every night, Yeah, 422 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: watch Blitzer. I watch MSNBC only when I come home. 423 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: I watched Blitzer. I go to dinner, I come back 424 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: and I watch Lawrence O'donaldy. Yeah, every night. 425 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: I like Lawrence, I like Rachel I like But I 426 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: think it's different when you're in primetime, as you know, 427 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: it's just like when you do you know, in primetime 428 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: you just sitcoms or whatever. It's different than something that's 429 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 2: on during the day, right, And I think it's the 430 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: same thing with cable news. Now, I don't believe that. 431 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 2: For networks, that's a different thing. You got six thirty 432 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 2: and it's straight, no chaser, good evening and we're gonna 433 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 2: start in Afghanistan and whatever it is. And then but 434 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: at night, if you're watching cable, it's more of a 435 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: personal experience and it's a longer sort of flow. And 436 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: people they wanted to be appointment television, and they wanted 437 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: to be someone familiar with, someone they trust, someone who 438 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: can actually maybe tell them a little bit how they feel. 439 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: People would say, I wasn't sure about it. Dom then 440 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: I watched you and I said, you know what, that 441 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: guy's right, and I think that's okay. I don't agree 442 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 2: with everything, hardly anything that Sean Hannity says, but he's 443 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 2: perfect for a primetime cable show, right, he's and he's 444 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 2: a star. 445 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: I don't little O'Reilly. We had a great delivery, and 446 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: he was a real broadcaster. I didn't agree with the 447 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: word he said either. 448 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 2: I've always said that about Bill O'Reilly. He's a great performer. 449 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: And I would watch him and I would take notes 450 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: and go that guy is good and the same thing, 451 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 2: and people are gonna, you know, gonna go, Oh my gosh, 452 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: I can't believe he said that. Same thing with Megan Kelly, 453 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: I don't agree with anything she says. She's turned out 454 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 2: to me the biggest troll and she flipped up. Oh 455 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: my gosh, it's embarrassing. 456 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: I went to a book party of first with my wife, 457 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: but when she. 458 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 2: Was the same we were at that same party. Yeah, 459 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: on the rooftop of a hotel somewhere eeah. But she 460 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 2: at that time, I think she was on at eight 461 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: or nine o'clock or whatever at night. 462 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: She was perfect for that hour. 463 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 2: She's a great performer. She comes on and she's energy whatever, 464 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 2: and you know, the morning Speaking of people being out 465 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 2: of position, the morning show is not her position, I believe, 466 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: just like it wasn't. I was in in position as well. 467 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 2: And that's the thing about a good media or news executive. 468 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: They know what positions people should be playing, so you 469 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 2: need that sort of a personality. Same thing with Chris. 470 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: Chris is a star. 471 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 2: He's great for cable news at night. Chris Cuomo, he's 472 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: great for cable news at night. I thought I was 473 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 2: great for cable news at night, you know, and people 474 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: wanted to tune in. They wanted to tune into us. 475 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 2: Rachel Maddow perfect cable news host. 476 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: But I think that people when I watch news, having 477 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: grown up and having had news having a very sacred 478 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: place in my life. It was sacred. The news was 479 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: very important to me. And now when I see the news, 480 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: it's just weird. There's a chemistry. You have to have 481 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: a chemistry with that person, you know, like I used 482 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: to listen to He's a good friend of mine. I 483 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: love Kurt Anderson. And when Kurt had that show Studio 484 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: three sixty on NPO, I loved that show. That was 485 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: my favorite podcast, along with This American Life for Kurt Anderson. 486 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: And you don't feel you have that connection to any 487 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 2: of the news folks with you. 488 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: I love watching you on TV. I'm not just saying 489 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: that I thought you were great. I mean were you 490 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: had the right chemistry. I mean beyond you being a 491 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: handsome guy and being stylish and being this and that. 492 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: Thank you, but you had a great delivery. It was 493 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: really it was easy to watch you where there's people 494 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: that I watch and I go. 495 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 2: Well, maybe a little less of you, But it's the 496 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: same thing with knowing who's a good reporter and who's 497 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 2: a good anchor. Very few people can do both, and 498 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 2: people don't realize it. They don't understand that like anchoring 499 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 2: a show, it's another world. It's not easy and you 500 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: have to hold someone's attention. But I think now in 501 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: this day and age, people think that, Okay, they're a 502 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: good reporter, so therefore they're a good anchor, and I 503 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 2: disagree with that. You can have someone who can anchor 504 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: a show who is not necessarily the best journalists in 505 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 2: the world, but they're interesting. But when there are big 506 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 2: breaking news stories, then you throw to the person who's 507 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: the good report. 508 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: The YouTube thing is on what time? Now, you're on 509 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: the air? One I'm on the air. 510 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 2: Well, it lives forever on YouTube. But I do a 511 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: five o'clock show every day, which was not how I 512 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 2: envisioned doing it. I do a five o'clock live show 513 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: every day where I just talk to the subscribers and 514 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 2: talk to them about things that's happening and what they 515 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 2: should know before they know go home or have dinner. 516 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: But then I just started one at ten am, which 517 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 2: is sort of a hot topic show where I'm trying 518 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 2: to get away from the politics, you know, and the 519 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 2: hard news and do things that are a little lighter. 520 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: But everything in the zeitgeist now is politics. You know, 521 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 2: they're eating the dogs or eating the cats. That goes over. 522 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 2: You know, it also bills over. 523 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 1: Author and anchor Don Lemon. If you enjoy conversations with 524 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: famous broadcasters, check out my episode with the legendary Dan Rather. 525 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 3: When the first faint edge is what we came to 526 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: know is Watergate, you can do e merge. I was 527 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 3: skeptical that it would reach the Oval Office itself. You 528 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 3: never met anybody who had more respect for the office 529 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: or the presidency in the United States than I do. 530 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 3: It was very difficult for me to accept that the 531 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,719 Speaker 3: president himself would be involved in any way. However, as 532 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 3: time went along, facts begin to first whisper, then they 533 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 3: begin to speak in full voice, and then the facts 534 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: begin to shout. It isn't just lower level campaign operatuities, 535 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 3: It isn't just lower level members of the administration that 536 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 3: this probably goes into the Oval Office itself. 537 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Dan Rather, go 538 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Don 539 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: Lemon tells us how a tragic event led to him 540 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: rethinking his relationship with God and with his faith. I'm 541 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing. Don 542 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: Lemon's new book, I Once Was Lost My Search for 543 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: God in America details his very personal examination of his faith. 544 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: But this is not Lemon's first foray in the publishing world. 545 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,719 Speaker 2: I've written three books. This is a fire debut at 546 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 2: number one New York Times during the George Floyd thing 547 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 2: when that all happened in twenty twenty one. 548 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: And the first thing I said to you when I 549 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: came backstage to just give you a quick carg at 550 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: the book party was you should write another book. 551 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: And I'm like, God, oh know, man, it's tough, Alec, 552 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: It's so tough, and you don't know, you know it was. 553 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 2: It was easier in the sense. What was easier was 554 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 2: the selling of the book, when I had that big 555 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 2: engine behind me of CNN, where I could mention at 556 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: any moment, you know, it's in my book, and by 557 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 2: the way, you can go buy it and blah blah 558 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Or in the commercial break, I would 559 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: say throw my book up, and as we go to 560 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: commercial and say, by the way, my book is on 561 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 2: sale and you can get it at Barnes and Noble 562 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: or any local book store. They were fine, that would 563 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 2: help them, and so I was able to do that 564 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: with that book. I can't do with this book. I 565 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: have to sell this book, which is good for you know. 566 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: I don't mind. 567 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 2: I can't do it on YouTube. Ye of course I 568 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 2: do it on YouTube. I think some people are getting 569 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 2: sick of it. But writing it is hard. It's like 570 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 2: you're putting your heart out there. It's like you're wearing 571 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: your heart outside of your body, not in the way 572 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 2: that you have kids. But you don't know how people 573 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: are going to receive it, if they're going to trample on, 574 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 2: if they're going to trash you, if it's going to sell. 575 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 2: It's just the whole thing. 576 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: And you know it's more personal than anything you might 577 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: do because it's you and you don't I make a movie. 578 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: Somebody else is directing the movie. Yeah, what I mean? Now, 579 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: you come from a I don't want to say religious, 580 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: so that you use the word. You want to describe 581 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: the family you came from in terms of faith. 582 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 2: Well, I came from a family who was faithful. Let's 583 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: put it that way. They had faith. My mother was 584 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 2: not as churchy, as they say, as my aunt was. 585 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: She's got Alzheimer's now a holy roller. You know, she'd 586 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: never missed a sermon. She was on the usher board 587 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 2: and all of that stuff. My mom was in the choir, 588 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 2: but she wasn't quite as religious as her the rest 589 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 2: of her family, but my grandmother was as well. You know, 590 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 2: they were members and you pay their dues. I'm sure 591 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: my mom still pays dues for the church. She just 592 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 2: doesn't go as often as as you know, one would think. 593 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: But I went to I grew up Baptist. I would 594 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 2: go to church, and then I'd go to Sunday Bible 595 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: School in the Baptist Church, and then I'd go to 596 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: vacation Bible School in the summer in the Baptist Church. 597 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: And during the week during the school year, I went 598 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: to the Catholic school and we would do Catechism, and 599 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 2: then we'd have Mass on Friday every Friday, and then 600 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 2: if it was a special holiday, we'd have Mass then. 601 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 2: And then in the morning we would line up like 602 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: a military school, hand out front of the hands on 603 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: the shoulder, and we'd line up by height, and then 604 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: we'd have the announcement and we'd do the Star Spangled 605 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,040 Speaker 2: banner and the pledge allegiance, and then we would pray, 606 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: and then we'd go to class in lines like a 607 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 2: military school. And then you would before you go to 608 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 2: recess or whatever you talked about in the book howbouch 609 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 2: you liked pray? I liked it because it was because 610 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 2: it gave you discipline and you had a regiment and 611 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 2: we're part of something. You were part of something, and 612 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: there was a stability there that you had. You know, Okay, 613 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 2: we got to go to the recess. We stand up, 614 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: we pray that we're going to be safe at recess, 615 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 2: and then we all line up and we go down 616 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: to the yard and we have the recess, and then 617 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: we come back. And then before we went to lunch, 618 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 2: we'd pray, you know, over our meal, and then we 619 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: come back and we pray whatever. So and then if 620 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: an adult enter the class, you'd say good afternoon, mister 621 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 2: ball went, and you'd stand up, and we did not 622 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: sit down until mister Baldwin would say you were told 623 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 2: to good afternoon class. 624 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: You may be seated, you may be seated. It was 625 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: a different world, amazing, right, you know my faith. I'm 626 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: a Catholic and I'm still Catholic, and I go to 627 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: church periodically. I go into waves and I go to 628 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: hear that man speak. Yeah, I'm in Los Angeles and 629 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: Father Torchisen, who was the head guy there at Saint Monica's, 630 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: I go hear him speak. I go went to the 631 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: city and go to Blessed Sacrament on seventy first Street 632 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 1: off of Broadway, and watched this a couple of guys speak. 633 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: But my guys in East Tampton who came out for 634 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: the swing mass in the summertime. So I go down 635 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: in the summer and I get my community and I 636 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: wait for him as he came out of the recessional 637 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: before everybody else mobbed him, and I said to me, 638 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: he's alone. I get him a lot. I'd pull him 639 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: aside from the other people with a recession and I go, 640 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: I want to do the confession the reconcilly face to face. 641 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: And he literally he's like this kid from Rosedale Queens. 642 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: She goes, ah, you want to do that? He goes, 643 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: oh please, I go no, I want to do that. 644 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: I want to please. I can't stand that, because are 645 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: you sorry for what you did in the name of 646 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: the Father and the son, the onlysp you're absolved. Oh please, 647 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: don't make me do that. Like we were pals. That's 648 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: why we're not in that racket anymore. We're friends. And 649 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: I thought, oh God, I can't believe that much this 650 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: church has changed. Change. You want to do that? You 651 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: know you want to do that? Please? He said, get away. 652 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about that nonsense. And I 653 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: was like, Oh God, who's going to hear my confession 654 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: on him? See, my friend. 655 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 2: I still can remember my the priest's voices in my 656 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 2: We have Father Hines, I can remember his big deep 657 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 2: and then we had Father Elwood, and I can just remember. 658 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 2: Their voices are stuck in my head because I was 659 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 2: in Catholic Church so much. 660 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: But I want to switch to this idea that obviously 661 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: with what I've been through in recent couple of years, 662 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: this very difficult situation I was dealing with. It was 663 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: painful on a level I can't even give words do. 664 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: I literally can't even describe to people how much I 665 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: suffered from that. And you where is the summoning of 666 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: your faith in your adult life? And in recent years 667 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: when there was tough times for you, did you get 668 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: into digging for help in that direction. Yes I did. 669 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 2: But first of all, I whant to say, I'm happy 670 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 2: that that's over. And you know everyone was praying for you, 671 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 2: and we all got what was happening, so I can 672 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: thank you for standing tough. 673 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. 674 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 2: So, yes, I've always been a faithful person, but as 675 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 2: my mother is, I'm not a churchy person, but I'm 676 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 2: a believer and I've always prayed and hoped and had faith, 677 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: and I've had to summon it more often than not. 678 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 2: I don't wear it on my sleeve because I don't 679 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: believe in that. I don't believe in pushing my faith 680 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: my religion on anyone else, and it's a personal thing 681 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: for me. I had a crisis of faith in twenty 682 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 2: eighteen when my sister died suddenly in an accidental drowning, 683 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 2: and that was I started thinking about this, how was she? 684 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: She was I think fifty nine at the time, and 685 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: I started to question God, like, why would God do that? 686 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: You know, it's supposed to be a benevolent God, and 687 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: I know there are bad things that happened all the time, 688 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: and you realize that intellectually until something happens to you, 689 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 2: right and you go, why did this happen to me? 690 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 2: And so I asked why? 691 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: Why? Why? 692 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: And I dug deep and then I said why not? 693 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: And I tried to figure out, you know, why this 694 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: was why? I read that somewhere, wasn't there quote in 695 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: the book about someone said well why? 696 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: There was a quote in the book. But also I'd 697 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 2: heard that before. But also Anderson Cooper's mom, Gloria Bennerbilt, 698 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: said the same thing. She said, you know, people would 699 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: go why me, why me? 700 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: Why me? Why not me? 701 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 2: And then there was in my family there was a 702 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 2: similar sort of saying why not You so figure out 703 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: why it happened to you? Why this is happening to you, 704 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: And there's there's a reason, and maybe it's just to 705 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: make you stronger. 706 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. 707 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: I would much prefer not to go through such things. 708 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 2: And so I started questioning, why would God take my sister. 709 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 2: She has beautiful kids, she has beautiful grandkids. She was 710 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: so proud of her grandson, who was a great basketball player, 711 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: a great football player. 712 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: She went every game like what why? Why? 713 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: Why son? That happened? And then after I started thinking 714 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 2: about this book, and then the George Floyd thing happened, 715 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 2: and I had pitched this George Floyd book and no 716 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: one wanted to buy it. Not George Floyd, but about racism, 717 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 2: and no one wanted to buy it. And then you know, 718 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: the thing happened and everyone's like, can. 719 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: You write that book? 720 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay. So I wrote it and it 721 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: was number one. But I started having this sort of 722 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 2: crisis of faith, and then I started writing the book, 723 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: and it was going to be sort of this, you know, 724 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: a coda to the last book, and where I was 725 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: just going to you know, move from racism and a 726 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 2: little bit more into religion. And I was going to 727 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: interview religious figures and people folks like you, and talk 728 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 2: about their faith. And then when I left CNN, it 729 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: became something else. I think it became a much better 730 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 2: and more personal book. So yes, it's a long story short, 731 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: a long story long. I have had, you know, points 732 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 2: in my life where I had to lean on my 733 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: religion and the Lord, and I don't really talk to 734 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 2: people about it. 735 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting when you work in this business. It 736 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: could be anywhere film and television or news of whatever medium, 737 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: cable or of streaming network you're around and you said 738 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: this word a lot on the book cynical. You're around 739 00:30:59,040 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: a lot of cynical people. 740 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what journalists are generally, right, generally. 741 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: You're right there, of course they are. And you sit 742 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: there and you think, what's it like to go minute 743 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: to minute through an experience with a bunch of cynical people, Like, 744 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: was there anybody at work who was faith based even 745 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: to some degree you could talk about it with? Was 746 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: it all just family and close friends and tim? 747 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: It was all just family and family and close friends, 748 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: But mostly it was just me Alan, right, I didn't 749 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. It's an inside job. And I remember, 750 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: you know, things would get so tough because doing what 751 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: I did was a very stressful. There's a high pressure job, 752 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: high wire job, every night live and you're like, oh, 753 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 2: something comes out of your mouth and there's always something 754 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 2: Why did you say this? 755 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: Why do you do this? 756 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 2: Other people hate you here, other than mad at you here? 757 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 2: You got to give this response here and I'm like, 758 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 2: oh my god, Like why most people just go it's 759 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 2: nine to five job, they go home. It's like you 760 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: screwed up up, you know, you round it up, you know, yeah, 761 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: so and then you get over it and then when 762 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 2: that would happen to my sister and all the other 763 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: things that would happen, I would count. I would say, 764 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: you know, God got my steps, one, two, three, and 765 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 2: I would just count my step. I would take step 766 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 2: by step, by step by step, and I would count 767 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: my steps to the studio sometimes, especially when my sister died, 768 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: because you never knew when it was going to hit you, 769 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: and so I would have to like think about things 770 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: that go, you know, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, steps. Okay, tonight, 771 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about you know, Trump and you know, 772 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: very fine people on both sides, both sides, and I 773 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 2: would just have to keep and I would say, Lord, 774 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: when I get there, help me see both sides, or 775 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 2: help me whatever. And then I would just I would 776 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 2: just pay it and say, okay, you know, get the 777 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 2: IFB on it. And then I'd say, okay, God, here 778 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: we go. Just don't let it happen. Don't let me 779 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: get sad during the middle of a segment of start 780 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 2: crying or whatever, and so let me be focused or whatever. 781 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 2: And then you know, the music would come up and 782 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 2: I would just I would say, and when they would 783 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: say go, that's when I would snap out. 784 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: Of it right with this New Mexico event. I sat 785 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: there saying to myself, what do you want me to do? 786 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: There must be something you want me to do, you 787 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: want me to change, you want me to do this 788 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: or that. I prayed harder for them to dismiss the 789 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: case prior on the gun charge, and they denied us. 790 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 1: So when I go to trial and I didn't get 791 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: my way before, and I begged God, I begged, I'll 792 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: never forget. I watched the crown and the Queen of 793 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: England is on her knees praying next to her bed, 794 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,239 Speaker 1: and I go, if the Queen of England can get 795 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: on her knees and pray, why can't I? And I 796 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: got on my knees, and sometimes I'm crying, and I go, please, 797 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: what do you want me to learn from this and 798 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: do from this? I said, please make this case be 799 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: dismissed on this charge. And later on it played out 800 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: the way it played. I go, if you take your 801 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: hands off the steering wheel and stop white knuckling the 802 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: steering wheel and trying to control and manage everything, maybe 803 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: something wonderful with results. 804 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: Yes, that was the hand of God. Yeah, Sometimes you 805 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 2: just have to say you know, as you said, take 806 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: your hands off the wheel and just pray that you're 807 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: going to be okay. 808 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: What do you want me to do? I'm okay with 809 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: whatever you will is show me. So did you let me? 810 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 2: I'm going to be a journalist. 811 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: Did it change you? That situation changed me a lot 812 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 1: in terms of my feelings about having my children and 813 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: getting be married and having so many kids, which is 814 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: something that I you know, I kind of knew what 815 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: I was doing, and people don't think you do. Then 816 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: they go, you wake up one morning and somebody goes, oh, 817 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: h peede on a stick, and oh guess what. 818 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 3: You know? 819 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,719 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not all silly, and COVID happened, the 820 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: strike happened, and overlapping with the strike was also my 821 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: problem in New Mexico. What it made me do is 822 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 1: people would say, my god, now you can get back 823 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,839 Speaker 1: to your old life, and I go, I don't want 824 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,919 Speaker 1: to get back in my own lives. 825 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 2: That's what I'm asking you. 826 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: This is my life now? Are you kids? 827 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 2: Are you more compassionate? 828 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: Yes? If compassion means everybody I meet, I have to 829 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 1: say to myself, they're going through somebody. Now I want 830 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: to switch the topic or to you with fame and 831 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: bed carpets. 832 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 2: But I understand how you feel, especially about because people 833 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 2: when they meet me, they say you're different than what 834 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 2: I read about, because people often let their enemies and 835 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: their detractors define them, and you know, similarly to you, 836 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 2: the right wing media hates me, so they write the 837 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 2: worst shit about me, And then people meet me who 838 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 2: are conservative and even Trump supporters, and they're like, you're 839 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 2: not at all like what I read about in the 840 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 2: New York Post, and you're like, no, I'm not that 841 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: person at all. 842 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: Is it funny how you can be somewhere in a 843 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: kind of benign setting. You're walking through a park and 844 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: with my kids at some store, and you see people 845 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: and you see the way within under a second, with 846 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: in a fraction of a second, you see them regard 847 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: you in a way with their eyes where you who 848 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: know they're maga Republicans and they're like, oh god, it's him. Yeah. 849 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: And I go walk into them and their kids playing, 850 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: and I go, what's this little one's name? And you 851 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: try to charm them and they're totally freaked out. They're like, 852 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: my god, I can't normalize you, like I can't handle 853 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: that right now. You're an asshole and you have to 854 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: remain an asshole that. I know that very well. Journalist 855 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: and anchor Don Lemon, If you're enjoying this conversation, tell 856 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: a friend and be sure to follow Here's the Thing 857 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 858 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: When we come back, Don Lemon shares his thoughts on 859 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: the cancel deal with Elon Musk and the X platform. 860 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: Following just one broadcast, I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening 861 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: to here is the Thing. Don Lemon's recent wedding to 862 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: his partner of eight years, Tim Malone, was heavily covered 863 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: in the press. The pair are often photographed on the 864 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: red carpet and at stylish events like New York Fashion Week. 865 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to know how a serious newsman navigates his 866 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: relationship with fame. 867 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 2: That is not why I got into the business, it says, 868 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: you know, right, And I didn't get into this business thing. 869 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: I was going to make a lot of money, but 870 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 2: you became. But I became famous, And you know what, 871 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 2: I'm enjoying my life. I'm happy. And if that fame, 872 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 2: if that comes with it. If I get a better 873 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: table at a restaurant, then so be it. 874 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: But does that enjoy it? 875 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm enjoying it. And there are so many people 876 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 2: who came before me who didn't get to do that. 877 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 2: And just because I'm a journalist, it doesn't mean that 878 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: I'm not a person. It doesn't mean that I don't 879 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 2: enjoy getting out and meeting people. Doesn't mean that I 880 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 2: don't enjoy going on red carpets and going to you know, 881 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: beautiful events. Why wouldn't I. I'm a human being. I 882 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: think it's okay. Just because you're a journalist, it doesn't 883 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: mean that you're not, you know, a full person, a 884 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 2: multi dimensional person. 885 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: And I am. 886 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 2: And so, you know what, I'm just enjoying my life. 887 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 2: I'm grateful that i'm here. I don't know how many 888 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 2: days are ahead of me, and while i'm here, I'm 889 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 2: going to get the best out of it. 890 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: The only reason you're on those red carpets is you're 891 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: good looking. That's you. I think it's about you. Maybe 892 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 1: it's I don't know. I think it's both. 893 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 2: Yes, But I also think I'm there because I am 894 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: enjoying it. If I wasn't enjoying it, I wouldn't be there. 895 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: I enjoyed my job. I enjoyed what I you know, 896 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 2: my profession and what I did, and I think that 897 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 2: that shines through and so I think that that's what 898 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 2: made me, you know, a star, so to speak, right 899 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 2: in this business. 900 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: Even those your warmth, No would I that's important. There's 901 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,320 Speaker 1: a magic mist that has to exude from you. It 902 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: has to be admitted by you on camera, whether it 903 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: comes through your eyes or anywhere you have to convey 904 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: to your audience. There's no place out. So I'd rather 905 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: be than here with you right rightly. When you do 906 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: see that, you go, Hi, I'm Don Lemon, and tonight 907 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:03,760 Speaker 1: I want to tell you Oldbeppa. 908 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,359 Speaker 2: They're with you, yes, And you know what, I couldn't wait. 909 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 2: I would tell them like I couldn't wait to get 910 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:10,280 Speaker 2: here to tell you this story today. 911 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: So let's go. It's like the journalists equivalent of someone 912 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: walking up to and going, would you like to dance? 913 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: Shall we dance? It's an engagement between you when your Yeah. Now, 914 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,959 Speaker 1: two quick things. One is the election. And I believe 915 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: that everybody who talks and kind of piles on online 916 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: or anywhere about Trump is completely wasting their time. What 917 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: else are there to say about him? Do you believe 918 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:29,800 Speaker 1: in polls. 919 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,240 Speaker 2: I believe poles are a snapshot in time. I believe 920 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 2: in polls less so now than I did before. We 921 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,879 Speaker 2: all learned our lesson from twenty sixteen and then twenty 922 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 2: twenty as well. But I think this time is going 923 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 2: to be surprising. I think it's going to be surprising. 924 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: I think she has a real chance. We had no 925 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 2: chance with Biden or I admired, I my operation for him, 926 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: but he was old. But I think there's a hidden 927 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 2: vote for Trump with black men. I think even with 928 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 2: some women that you know, they still love him. And 929 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: I think with college students, I don't I know, and 930 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 2: I don't get it either. 931 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: I don't get it, but I don't get Also, is 932 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: it there's a person who came in who knew nothing 933 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 1: about government. He held no office, not even a mayoralty, 934 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: not a governor, or as an executive, not a legislator 935 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: in Congress or a state house. He knew nothing about government, 936 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: and he served in the White House for four years 937 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: and he still doesn't know anything. 938 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: So it doesn't know you know what the people are, 939 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: what they do. We're shocking to me, It shouldn't be shocking. 940 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 2: But the folks on his side say she's not qualified 941 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: and she has no experience, and I'm like, wait, do 942 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 2: you know who you're supporting? 943 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: Am I Are you insane? She's a senator, vice president, 944 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: she's the attorney general. She's a bright woman. Yeah, she's 945 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: everything he isn't. Yeah, all right, Musk, I just want 946 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 1: to say with Musk, you know, Musk is like we 947 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: were joking before you got into the Musk to me 948 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: is like Howard Hughes meets Mickey Rooney. He's like this loopy, 949 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,879 Speaker 1: nutty guy that's constantly slamming the door in his hand 950 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: and screwing himself up public relations wise. But he's also 951 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: an engineering genius or whatever, and he's made all this 952 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: money and sold cars, which are one of the most 953 00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: difficult things on earth to do is to create a 954 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: car and sell it to this country. When you went 955 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: in to talk to him, I mean, obviously you were 956 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: poised to work with him or for him at that 957 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: company and do your show on X and that blew up. 958 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: But when you were there, did you say to yourself, 959 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 1: he's not much different from a lot of other network executives. 960 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: I know you didn't have any trepidation. Well, let me 961 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: say this. 962 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 2: I am in ongoing and pending litigation out of him, 963 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 2: so I can't really say a lot. But what I 964 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 2: can say is that I went into this with the 965 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 2: best of intentions, and at first I did not want 966 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 2: to do it. It took some cajoling and some convincing, 967 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 2: and finally I did. I did not work for him. 968 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 2: He was not my boss. 969 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: He was not hiring me. 970 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 2: What I had was a content deal with him, a 971 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 2: distribution deal where they would have a certain exclusive material 972 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 2: for an amount of time and then it would go everywhere. 973 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: So you know, why not do it? 974 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 2: Because I wanted to. What I wanted to do was 975 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 2: what he and they said, to get on the platform 976 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 2: and to be a counter to all of the sort 977 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 2: of right wing conspiracy theorists that are out there. And 978 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 2: you know that, you know, lasted all of half a day. 979 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 2: So it didn't work out. So I feel, you know, 980 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 2: it's awful that it didn't work out. It wasn't great 981 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: for me, wasn't what you hoped. It wasn't what I hoped, 982 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 2: But you know, I'd worked with difficult people, but usually 983 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 2: that's in within the confines of a business that does 984 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 2: not play out publicly like it did. He's a very 985 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 2: consequential person to the world, and he has a very 986 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 2: big and powerful platform that can affect lives, livelihood and 987 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 2: even people's safety, and one I believe must be and 988 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,719 Speaker 2: should be careful and more responsible with that. 989 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: What do you hope people will take from this book? 990 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 2: The biggest thing is that I want people to understand 991 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 2: that we don't and shouldn't live in a theocracy, but 992 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 2: it's going that way. And if you go through difficult periods, 993 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 2: as you well know, if you trust the process, which 994 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 2: is really called faith. People always say trust the process, right, 995 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 2: which is really faith for me is that it's going 996 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 2: to be okay. And if it's not okay, then usually 997 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 2: we don't know about it, but usually things work out 998 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 2: for the best. And I think it's you have to 999 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 2: have the right mentality, and you have to have the 1000 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 2: right faith, and you have to have people around you 1001 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 2: who love. 1002 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: You as you well know as you are, yeah, and 1003 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: love you for who you are. 1004 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 2: Love you for who you are and so but I 1005 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 2: want people to get to know my story. I tell 1006 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 2: my story alec and America story through the lens of 1007 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 2: religion and faith in this country. And I wrote this 1008 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 2: book because of my love for the country and my 1009 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,719 Speaker 2: love for God, and I wanted people to have an 1010 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 2: insight on how it shaped my life and my world. 1011 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 2: And I fought against the evangelical teachings that sought to 1012 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 2: marginalize me. 1013 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 1: I want you to read something. You always ask authors 1014 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: to read a piece of their book. 1015 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 2: Okay, this is an excerpt for my book, I Once 1016 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,279 Speaker 2: Was Lost, my search for God in America. These days, 1017 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 2: a lot of people here and abroad associate the American 1018 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 2: flag with the most bellicose, narrow minded ideology. Because the 1019 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 2: ones waving that flag loudest and hardest are bellicose, narrow 1020 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 2: minded ideologues. They wave the flag as a symbol of 1021 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,799 Speaker 2: the America. They envision a country that belongs to them 1022 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 2: by divine right, not the United States we all share. 1023 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 2: And to drive that point home, they carried the stars 1024 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 2: and stripes alongside the stars and bars of the Confederacy, 1025 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,360 Speaker 2: a treasonous junta that literally tore the United States apart 1026 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 2: in a bloody effort to preserve slavery as an economic engine. 1027 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 2: The term Christian nationalism rings out with faux nobility, but 1028 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 2: it's a wolf in sheep's clothing, white supremacy, cloaked and 1029 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,440 Speaker 2: evangelical religiosity. 1030 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:47,200 Speaker 1: This section is some of the best writing in the book. 1031 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: I must say now, the other thing I want to 1032 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 1: say is for me, I want people to take that 1033 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,960 Speaker 1: idea how we can reframe all that discussion about what 1034 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: it means to be a patriot and be an American Menon, 1035 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 1: You're one of many people who pursued that in this book. 1036 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,239 Speaker 1: But what I got from this book was your It's 1037 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: a call. It's a call to say to people, we 1038 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: all need to take a break from this world, this loud, cacaphanous, 1039 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: commercialized world, and take a moment to connect with something spiritual. 1040 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be a religion, to just connect 1041 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: to something where we can settle ourselves. How can you 1042 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: calm yourself and make yourself the better you on a 1043 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 1: day to day basis? I mean, I get this from 1044 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 1: this book. 1045 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 2: Look, do you realize that you answered that question earlier 1046 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 2: when you said that, no matter how someone treats you 1047 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 2: or who they are, when you meet someone, you try 1048 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 2: to approach them as if they're going through something going through. 1049 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 2: What are they going through And so as I write 1050 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 2: and here, I believe that what's important to convey is 1051 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 2: that we keep trying to Most people keep trying to 1052 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 2: find look at, you know, create God in their own image, 1053 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 2: when we should be looking for God's image and other people. 1054 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 2: And as long as you do that, I think that's 1055 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,439 Speaker 2: the answer. That's how you settle yourself. And you're talking 1056 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,719 Speaker 2: about this about patriotism. I say in this book that 1057 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 2: as a black man, I have a complicated relationship with 1058 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 2: a flag, and as a gay man, I have a 1059 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 2: complicated relationship with a Bible. But I was able to 1060 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 2: overcome that by using critical thinking and trying to find 1061 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 2: love in my fellow man rather than judging people and 1062 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 2: trying to create God in my own image. 1063 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,719 Speaker 1: You think you have your doubts about everybody comes out 1064 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: of It's like having a baby. You write a book. 1065 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: When it's done, you're like, oh, I'm never doing that. 1066 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: But the thing is that you write these books because 1067 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: I have a theory which is that these are bricks. 1068 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: These are bricks, and this is one of your bricks 1069 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 1: that you're building a library, a world library. These are bricks. 1070 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: I have a theory where when the aliens come and 1071 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,280 Speaker 1: take over and destroy this world. They're going to erase 1072 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,280 Speaker 1: every tape in every CD and every DVD that's just scarbage. 1073 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: And they're going to pick up a book and they go, now, 1074 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: what's this, And they're going to want to go this 1075 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: more thoughtful, this is more you, more of your heart 1076 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: is in this. I mean your work in television is exemplary. 1077 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: I mean I don't want you to give up writing books. 1078 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, Alec. I think you're right. 1079 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 2: It's like we have all of these photographs in our 1080 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,920 Speaker 2: cell phones, and then where do they go when we're 1081 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 2: not here? When I go to your house, right, your 1082 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 2: family's there, you're there, but I'm looking at the pictures 1083 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,320 Speaker 2: on the wall and I go around and look and 1084 00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 2: where's this from? Where's this moment from? But no one 1085 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:18,480 Speaker 2: goes into your phone and does that. And that's the 1086 00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 2: same thing that you're saying about the books and erasing 1087 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 2: things that are digital, because throughout. 1088 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: The moment, Yeah, thank you, thank you, My thanks to 1089 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 1: Don Lemon. Here's the Thing is recorded at CDM Studios 1090 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,040 Speaker 1: in New York City. This episode was produced by Kathleen Russo, 1091 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hobin. Our engineer is Frank Imperial. 1092 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,800 Speaker 1: Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich. I'm Alec Baldwin. 1093 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: Here's the thing is brought to you by iHeart Radio