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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants. Hulet's go, Let's go,

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Speaker 1: Let's go, Gians, get out on the Giants. Moubbul give

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Speaker 1: me some job. Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's

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Speaker 1: welcome to a new edition of the Giants Little Podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.

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Speaker 1: John Smoke with you live from the Hackensack Murty Health

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Speaker 1: Podcast studio. Keep getting better. We've dragged them out of

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Speaker 1: the hole. He's reduced himself to his family and his children.

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Speaker 1: The Beast is complete and now he's just doing hits

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Speaker 1: all over the place. And we've seen him on a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different hits already. We thank him for joining

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Speaker 1: us on our Humble Giants podcast today. Part of the program,

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Speaker 1: the one and only Dane Brugler. Dane, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well. It was been a cool few days

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Speaker 2: hearing on the feedback about the Beast and how much

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Speaker 2: people are enjoying the new interface this year with you know,

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Speaker 2: still the PDF if someone wants to download it that way,

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Speaker 2: but we have a new kind of micro site for

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Speaker 2: it this year, easy navigation. You can search for any

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Speaker 2: player you want. There's over twenty six hundred players with

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Speaker 2: full testing information on there, and of course you know

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Speaker 2: the reports for over four hundred guys, all the cool

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Speaker 2: stuff that I think people have grown to know the

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Speaker 2: Beast for with the backstories and the testing information and

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Speaker 2: all of that. So it's been it's been really fun

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Speaker 2: to you know, whether it's you know, I get a

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Speaker 2: text from somebody in the league or all the cool

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Speaker 2: responses on Twitter or all that kind of stuff. It's been.

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Speaker 2: It's been a fun few days here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The micro site is awesome and you have to

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Speaker 1: be a member of the Athletic in order to check

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Speaker 1: that out. To make sure you guys, go subscribe to

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Speaker 1: the Athletic. It is a great service. Go check that out.

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Speaker 1: And you know it's funny. I heard you on the

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Speaker 1: Athletic Football Show, which you'll be on now the rest

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Speaker 1: of the way heading up to the draft now with

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Speaker 1: Robert Mas and the crew and Derek Lass and they

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Speaker 1: do a great job. And you know, Robert was talking

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Speaker 1: about I'm old school, you know. I have my PDF

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Speaker 1: on my desktop and I still print them out and

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Speaker 1: I sent it to the printer yesterday Dan and they

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Speaker 1: print around like ten of them for people around the

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Speaker 1: building and they're gonna have them, and I love having

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Speaker 1: that next to me for the next month or so.

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Speaker 2: Just you know, I fought for that. I had to

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Speaker 2: fight for that because I know there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people that want to have their printed version, and they

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Speaker 2: I think there's some people that would like to see

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Speaker 2: this go all digital, but I said, no, we've got

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Speaker 2: to do make sure there's a PDF version so it's

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Speaker 2: easy to print, easy for people to have that hard

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Speaker 2: copy if that's the direction they want to go. So

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Speaker 2: I'm glad we were able to make that happen and

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Speaker 2: hopefully we keep that going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, I want the reason I

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Speaker 1: hesitated before we started today. I wanted to pull out.

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Speaker 1: And I not sure if this is the first one

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Speaker 1: you did, but it's the first one I have printed.

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Speaker 1: This is twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: It was this the most a decade ago. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if we're technically speaking, the first one I ever did

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Speaker 2: is my freshman year dorm room back in twenty and five.

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Speaker 2: Technically speaking, I have that somewhere. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I ever actually printed it, maybe just living in a

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Speaker 2: word document on my computer, but yeah, I mean that

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Speaker 2: was that was probably one of the first ones that

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Speaker 2: I like actually kind of dressed up and they made

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Speaker 2: public and available. Yeah, there's a point in like twenty

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Speaker 2: thirteen where I was just kind of giving it away

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Speaker 2: and saying, hey, look, this is because when I started

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Speaker 2: doing it, it was I wanted to be with the team,

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Speaker 2: and like, hey, this is my resume, this is what

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Speaker 2: I'm either psycho or I have a real passion for this,

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Speaker 2: because look this is what I put together. Possibly, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: and hey, that opened a lot of doors for me

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Speaker 2: around the league. And but you know, I kind of

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Speaker 2: enjoyed being on the media side now of doing this

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Speaker 2: and being able to share all this information with with

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Speaker 2: the all the all the draft fans out there. It's

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Speaker 2: it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: That is Laramie tunsel Sands gas mask. I believe I'm

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Speaker 1: on the cover there, So yes, all right, so let's

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Speaker 1: get to it. I really enjoyed the the humble brag,

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Speaker 1: and you're one of the most humble people I know,

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Speaker 1: so I love the humble brag. During the Athletic Football Show,

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Speaker 1: I happened to be texted with Ian Rappaport about you

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Speaker 1: know how we think this draft is gonna go, which

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Speaker 1: which I love. By the way, and I want to

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Speaker 1: try to get some intel from you, because teams right

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Speaker 1: now are starting to finalize their boards right The Giant

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Speaker 1: scouts are here, They're in the building. They've been upstairs

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Speaker 1: for the past week trying to finalize what the board's

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Speaker 1: going to look like. I'm not sure the teams are

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Speaker 1: done yet, but I'm sure a lot of the work

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Speaker 1: is close to complete. What's your feel right now for

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Speaker 1: what scenario the Giants are going to be looking at

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Speaker 1: picking third overall?

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Speaker 2: So two weeks out, you know, obviously this could change tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: let alone, you know, in two weeks, but with what

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Speaker 2: we know right now, sure feels like, okay, cam Ward

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Speaker 2: would be that number one overall pick to the Titans.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and I think that was pretty clear at

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Speaker 2: the combine was cam Ward was going number one. It

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Speaker 2: was more of a question are the Titans gonna stick

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Speaker 2: and pick or could we see some trade action up there?

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Speaker 2: And they're gonna it. Sure seems like they're gonna stay

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Speaker 2: and pick. And you know, with the first year general

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Speaker 2: manager Mike Burgonzi, you just never know. But it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: It gives them an avenue to a quarterback, you know,

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Speaker 2: a type of guy that a lot of teams would

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Speaker 2: bet on. I think if you are available at two,

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Speaker 2: the Browns would draft him. If you're available at three,

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Speaker 2: the Giants would draft him. So no mystery why cam

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Speaker 2: Ward is gonna be the number one overall pick. And

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Speaker 2: then at two the Browns certainly are a wild card

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Speaker 2: because we know they need a quarterback, and we know

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Speaker 2: they need offense really in the worst way. They were

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Speaker 2: thirty second in the league in offensive scoring last year,

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Speaker 2: thirty second and third down conversions. So do they go

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Speaker 2: with one of these quarterbacks? Do they look to trade down?

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Speaker 2: I think Travis Hunter is the way you go. He's

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Speaker 2: the best player in this draft, in my opinion, and

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Speaker 2: he gives you the best of both worlds because he

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Speaker 2: can be a big time corner, but he also gives

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Speaker 2: you a little bit of life on offense as well.

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Speaker 2: So I think Travis Hunter would be the pick of two,

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Speaker 2: and that leaves the Giants at three with the other

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Speaker 2: quote unquote elite prospect in this draft being Abdul Carter

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Speaker 2: sitting there for them. And you know, we know maybe

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Speaker 2: pass rush isn't number one need on this team. You

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Speaker 2: know it gave Burns all that money last year and

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Speaker 2: then you still have Kevon Thibodeau on this team. But

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Speaker 2: when you have a chance, I think when you're picking

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Speaker 2: top three, top five, you draft players, not positions, and

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Speaker 2: when you have a chance to draft a difference maker,

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Speaker 2: you do it. And so I right now, with where

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Speaker 2: we're sitting, Abdul Carter at three to the Giants, to

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Speaker 2: me makes the most sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it does, too, Danum, with you, I

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Speaker 1: don't think you can make the case for a position

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Speaker 1: player over Abdul Carter. I just I don't see it.

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Speaker 1: I love Mason Graham as much of the next guy,

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Speaker 1: but just physically, I can't sell myself on him over Carter.

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Speaker 1: Ashton Gent's a running back. I can't sell myself on that.

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Speaker 1: And then the only the guy looking at is is

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Speaker 1: should war Sanders because quarterback is such a big need.

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Speaker 1: But you wind up with what number thirty four on

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Speaker 1: your big board.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've been pretty consistent about kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: like going back to my mid season top fifty around Halloween,

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Speaker 2: he was like twenty five or something around there. I

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Speaker 2: mean he's kind of always been that late one, early two. Like,

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, you can't like Shadar Sanders. You have

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Speaker 2: to love him or hate him, and I am here

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Speaker 2: to say you can just like him. You know, it's

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Speaker 2: okay to just think he's a good quarterback. You like him.

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Speaker 2: I just wouldn't drafted him top five, and I think

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Speaker 2: there are plenty of other teams that look at him

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Speaker 2: in a similar way.

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Speaker 1: Have you found any teams that have told you we

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Speaker 1: would pick him in the top five or top ten?

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Speaker 2: No, but I think there's you know, there are plenty

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Speaker 2: of teams that maybe haven't done the level of work

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Speaker 2: that Joe Shane is. I mean, we know how much work.

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Speaker 2: The Giants haven't been necessarily coy about the amount of

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Speaker 2: work they've put into the Colorado quarterback. So nobody knows

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Speaker 2: him I think better in the NFL than Shane and

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Speaker 2: his staff in that front office, which you know, really

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Speaker 2: put it this way, like I don't The Giants obviously

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Speaker 2: aren't going to tell me what they're going to do,

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Speaker 2: but I can tell you what other teams think the

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Speaker 2: Giants are going to do, and they lean towards a

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Speaker 2: non quarterback there at three, and if that happens, then

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Speaker 2: we're on Shador watch. You know, where does he land

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Speaker 2: at that point? Nine to the Saints are a possibility,

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Speaker 2: but I don't see that happening. I would be surprised.

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Speaker 2: And so we were talking to Steelers in the twenties,

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Speaker 2: are we going to talk about could the Giants potentially

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Speaker 2: trade back up into the second round? You know, you

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Speaker 2: think about the Texans the Vikings somewhere twenty four to

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Speaker 2: twenty five and get Shador there. Same thing with the Browns.

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Speaker 2: The Browns could be in that conversation as well. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's the first round is going to be

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Speaker 2: really interesting in a big part because of everyone's gonna

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Speaker 2: be curious where Shador lands.

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Speaker 1: Now, I'm with you. One last question on Shaudor before

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Speaker 1: we move off of it. Your specific evaluation of him,

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Speaker 1: and I've heard people describe him, and I think most

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Speaker 1: of it's accurate. You know, good, solid arm, accurate, tough,

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Speaker 1: good in the pocket, good decision maker, doesn't make a

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Speaker 1: lot of mistakes. But then everyone always throws in processing

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Speaker 1: and Dan, I gotta be honest with you, I don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily see that myself. Now, I'm not a quarterbacks coach,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an offensive coordinator, so I don't think I'm

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Speaker 1: qualified to see that. But for a guy that holds

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Speaker 1: the ball so long in a very simple offense. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure I see the processing part of it, do you? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And I think that's fair because there are times where

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Speaker 2: you do see it, but there's a lot of other

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Speaker 2: times where you don't. Where he's he's taking extra hitches

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Speaker 2: and it's he's not trusting the pocket and he's quick

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Speaker 2: to just dump it off and not let the routes

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Speaker 2: develop and let these different route combinations come to life.

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Speaker 2: So it's something where and you wonder how much of

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Speaker 2: it is scar tissue because he has played behind a

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Speaker 2: bad offensive line, and is that how much does that

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Speaker 2: play in part of him drifting? And there are some

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Speaker 2: snaps where he's just going in reverse and the tackles like, yes,

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Speaker 2: it's a blow average offensive line, but the tackles can't

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Speaker 2: do anything about that. Some of these sacks are on

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Speaker 2: the quarterback. And I just keep coming back to with

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Speaker 2: Shadoor Sanders, like he didn't play in a very good

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Speaker 2: conference in terms of just overall defensive talent and the

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Speaker 2: three best defenses he faced Nebraska, which is a Big

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Speaker 2: Ten team, Kansas State and BYU those are the three

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Speaker 2: defense best defenses he faced he struggled against all three,

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Speaker 2: and so again, I like Shador Sanders, I just don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily see a guy that's going to elevate my entire

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Speaker 2: offense and help lead us to the playoffs. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I think most teams see it that way, but it

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Speaker 2: only takes one team to say, hey, we're going to

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Speaker 2: roll the dice on him and see what happens.

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Speaker 1: And I think we're on the exact same page on that. Now.

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Speaker 1: I would like to walk out of this if I

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Speaker 1: was a Giants general manager. Thank God for the organization

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Speaker 1: I am not. I would love to walk out of

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Speaker 1: this draft with either Tyler Shuck, Jalen Morrow somehow Sanders

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Speaker 1: drops you can throw him to the mix two how

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Speaker 1: or Jackson Dart? How early? Am I gonnat to pick

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Speaker 1: one of those three quarterbacks? Is there any shot one

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Speaker 1: of those guys gets to the top round three? Or

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Speaker 1: am I looking at thirty four or bust?

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Speaker 2: I'd be surprised. I think all there's a good chance

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Speaker 2: all five of the top five quarterbacks this year they

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Speaker 2: go in the top sixty. And so if cam Ward

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Speaker 2: goes one and then he might be the only quarterback

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Speaker 2: that goes in the top you know, twenty picks and

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Speaker 2: then the late twenties are going to be interesting with Shador,

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Speaker 2: Jackson Dart, Tyler Shuck, Jaln Milroe. You know how many

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Speaker 2: fall to the second round and then you know, could

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Speaker 2: any of them fall further than sixty I would be surprised.

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Speaker 2: And so we have the Giants sitting there. I pick

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Speaker 2: what thirty four? Ye?

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Speaker 1: Thirty sixty five?

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Speaker 2: Right, so you have an opportunity to do you package

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Speaker 2: those picks to go up and get one of these quarterbacks?

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Speaker 2: Do you just stay put in thirty four and see? Okay,

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Speaker 2: could a Jackson Dart be there? Could Tyler Schuck get

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Speaker 2: past the Browns at thirty three? You know, do they

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Speaker 2: love one of these secondary quarterbacks enough to go make

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Speaker 2: a splash? I think you could make a case for

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Speaker 2: all of them. You know, with Jackson Dart, you like

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Speaker 2: the physical tools, that competitiveness and intangibles are off the charts.

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Speaker 2: We know the Giants have done a lot of work

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Speaker 2: on Dart. I think it's just gonna take time. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that he did and that

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Speaker 2: lank off and offense that he's just not gonna be

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Speaker 2: asked to do in the NFL. It's gonna look very

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Speaker 2: very different. And that doesn't mean he can't do it.

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Speaker 2: It just means it's more of a projection. And that's

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Speaker 2: you know, I understand taking a chance on that when

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Speaker 2: we're talking a day two pick. It's a little riskier

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Speaker 2: when we're taking them in the first round. But the

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Speaker 2: Giants are kind of in a place where they might

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Speaker 2: have to gamble a little bit, and I think you

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Speaker 2: feel better about not gambling with that top three pick,

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Speaker 2: but maybe with that second rounder. That's where he let's

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Speaker 2: take a shot. You know, we can't just sit and

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Speaker 2: wait and hope the next great quarterback falls to us.

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Speaker 2: Let's be aggressive. We like Jackson Dart the most, Let's

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Speaker 2: go get him. And so it might take a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a trade up, but it seems like that's

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Speaker 2: maybe the more likely scenario for this team.

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Speaker 1: And I think Milroe is interesting just because we know

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Speaker 1: how ty Brian Dable is with Nick Saban, who obviously

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Speaker 1: knows him very very well from Alabama, so I think

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Speaker 1: they'll have great intel on Milroe too. In terms of

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Speaker 1: and I think bringing in those two Vets Dane, it

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Speaker 1: gives you the luxury of not having to use him

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Speaker 1: right away. And frankly, I'm not even sure. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any of the quarterbacks they would draft this year,

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Speaker 1: if it's not cam Ward, would beat out Russell Wilson

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Speaker 1: early in the year. I just don't think they're gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to do it. So why not draft a

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Speaker 1: guy that might take some time to develop. You have

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Speaker 1: good intel on him from Sabin. Maybe you can develop

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Speaker 1: a package for him early and still use his running

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Speaker 1: ability and some of his other tools as an athlete

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Speaker 1: early in his career. That to me something that seems

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Speaker 1: like it could be very plausible at thirty.

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Speaker 2: Four, Yeah, no doubt, And especially with Milroe and his

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Speaker 2: ability to use his legs to impact the offense, I

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Speaker 2: think that you go back to what he did this

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Speaker 2: past year. Twelve of his rushing touchdowns were ten plus yards.

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Speaker 2: That's the most of a quarterback in the last twenty

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Speaker 2: five years. Lamar Jackson came close. He had eleven back

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Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen. But talking about an explosive player and

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Speaker 2: how and it's not he has long speed, but his

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Speaker 2: speed is so sudden and immediate that's he's immediately causing

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Speaker 2: defensive pursuit angles to just fall apart, and so that's

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Speaker 2: his trump card that really gets him out of jams

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Speaker 2: and helps him. And he's so explosive through the air

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Speaker 2: as well. Sixteen passing touchdowns this year and average thirty

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Speaker 2: six point six yards per touchdown. That's crazy, and that

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Speaker 2: speaks a lot to his ability to push the ball downfield. Now, again,

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Speaker 2: to your point what you're saying, it's going to take

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Speaker 2: time with him. He is very undeveloped when we talk

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Speaker 2: about just the feel in the pocket, and that's something

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Speaker 2: that some coach you have. Some coaches they'll tell you

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Speaker 2: you can't really teach that. That's something that you're born

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Speaker 2: with or you're not. Other coaches will tell you, we

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Speaker 2: can improve it, we can get him better at that.

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Speaker 2: And so if you really focus on the Georgia tape,

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Speaker 2: the Wisconsin tape, you're gonna look at Jalen Milroe and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is a worthwhile investment. But if you're focusing on

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Speaker 2: the Oklahoma tape, the Michigan tape, it's gonna be like,

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Speaker 2: all right, maybe let's this might be a little too

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Speaker 2: rich for taking him here in the top thirty five picks.

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Speaker 2: Let's wait and see if he falls to us in

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Speaker 2: that early third.

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Speaker 1: Toddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go over the middle with at the score great.

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Speaker 2: How do we make that happen?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but Citizens does makes sense of your

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Speaker 1: money with Citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning. All right,

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Speaker 1: I want to hit a couple more positions to your

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Speaker 1: dan defensive tackle. I'm calling it kind of the defensive

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Speaker 1: tackle hole and it shows up on your big boar too.

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Speaker 1: You have Walter Nolan at thirty one. I think both

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Speaker 1: of us think he could go a lot higher than

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Speaker 1: that based on the word teams think about him. Then

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Speaker 1: you have Shamar Turner all the way down to fifty six.

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Speaker 1: The only player in between those two is tay Leak

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Speaker 1: Williams at forty. So where the Giants are picking a

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Speaker 1: thirty four, you could be wiped out there defensive tackle

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Speaker 1: until you're getting the third round players. So do you

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Speaker 1: see that third round of less one of those top

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Speaker 1: DT's you know, Grand Harmon or Nolan or one of

339
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Speaker 1: those guys, or even Williams to an extent drop to

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Speaker 1: the Giants at thirty four? Are you better off just

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Speaker 1: waiting til the third round to try to get Dexter

342
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Speaker 1: Lawrence's running mate there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, And it's not a bad strategy

344
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Speaker 2: when you think of the look at the defensive tackle,

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Speaker 2: the talent that's going to be on the board. It's

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Speaker 2: one of the deepest positions this year. So if you

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Speaker 2: don't love say Tayleerk Williams, in which I would have

348
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: no problem taking. He's a top forty pick in this draft.

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Speaker 2: So if you take him at thirty four, totally fine

350
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Speaker 2: with it. Maybe he doesn't give you enough pass rush

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Speaker 2: for what you want out of a defensive tackle that early,

352
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Speaker 2: but one of the most dominant run defenders in this draft.

353
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Speaker 2: But you can wait until the third round, fourth round,

354
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Speaker 2: and I think you feel good about the play you're getting.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Shamart Turner could very easily be there in

356
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Speaker 2: the early third round and be a guy that they

357
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,880
Speaker 2: look at and say, okay, we he's one of those

358
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 2: players that you know, the aggressive way he likes to

359
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 2: play you, you don't necessarily you know it might bother

360
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 2: you if you're another team, but when he's on your team,

361
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Speaker 2: it's like, all right, this is the type of guy

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Speaker 2: that we can win with. And you know whether he's

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Speaker 2: some some questionable calls or anything like that. We anybody

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Speaker 2: that's watched Texas A and M's defensive line knows exactly

365
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. But Shamart Turner has a lot

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Speaker 2: to him that will play at the NFL level. So

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Speaker 2: I think a guy like that Ty Robinson from Nebraska,

368
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Speaker 2: you know. Uh, there's a lot of defensive tackles in

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Speaker 2: this class that I think will fit maybe what they're

370
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Speaker 2: they're looking for. And it could be at thirty or

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Speaker 2: in the third round, at sixty five, could be in

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Speaker 2: the fourth round because this defensive tackle class is gonna stretch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. TJ. Sanders, the guy that maybe top of the

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00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 1: third round could could could maybe be there with me

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Speaker 1: on that. And it's funny you bring up Tyler Gims

376
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Speaker 1: and I'd be fine picking you at thirty four to two.

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Speaker 1: And the case I've been making here, Dan is that

378
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 1: in a draft like this where if you're picking outside

379
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 1: the top three, don't try to get fancy and shoot

380
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 1: for a star here. If you have somebody that you

381
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Speaker 1: think is gonna be a good player, even if it's

382
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 1: at a boring position, just take the guy and you're

383
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,200
Speaker 1: gonna be happy. Delan Jeremiah made me feel better about

384
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Speaker 1: my take because Jeremiah tweeted out earlier today he's talked

385
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 1: to three or four executives and they called this a

386
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Speaker 1: starter draft. You can find starters, just don't try to

387
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Speaker 1: find stars. So I think, you know, you talk about

388
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,800
Speaker 1: the running back class bndep, this is just going to

389
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: be a draft where find a good football player that

390
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: can help you in a spot and just be happy

391
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: about it. Don't try to you know, focus on need,

392
00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,680
Speaker 1: focus on you know, star hunting, and I think you'll

393
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,159
Speaker 1: be okay.

394
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 2: Well that's what if you're the Giants. And like, I

395
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 2: get it, Giants fans are they're not happy about picking

396
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 2: third in a draft where they're kind of boxed out

397
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 2: of a quarterback. And like if they had a third

398
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 2: pick overall last year, you have Drake May third overall pick.

399
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 2: This year, there's no quarterback for you. So I understand

400
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Speaker 2: why Giants fans are upset about. But hey, it could

401
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 2: be worse. You could be the fifth pick, the sixth pick,

402
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 2: the seventh pick, and you're missing out on that top

403
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 2: tier of players, that second tier. Like I like Mason Graham,

404
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 2: but he's not Quinn Williams. You know, he's not Jalen Carter.

405
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,920
Speaker 2: You're missing out on what I think you usually think

406
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 2: of a top ten pick. But for the Giants, you

407
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 2: have a chance to get aut Duel Carter there. You

408
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 2: have a chance to get a difference maker or whether

409
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 2: that's Travis Hunter. If Abdull Carter goes too and then

410
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 2: you steal with that second round or third round or

411
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 2: fourth round, you feel like you're getting starters at that

412
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 2: point because one hundred percent agree the first round is

413
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Speaker 2: not going to really blow you away in terms of

414
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 2: overall talent relative to other years. But the second round,

415
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Speaker 2: third round, fourth round, there's a lot of starters in

416
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Speaker 2: that mix, especially at the defensive line. Running back. It's

417
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,359
Speaker 2: been funny to see how many how much work the

418
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 2: Giants have been doing at running back position, and how

419
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,920
Speaker 2: that's a position we could see them maybe address earlier

420
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Speaker 2: than a lot of people think. But it's one of

421
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 2: those positions is that there's a lot of them in

422
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 2: this class, and if the right one's on the board

423
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Speaker 2: at thirty four, maybe it's a direction they go there.

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Speaker 1: All right, I was gonna go to edge, but you

425
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 1: brought up running back, so let's go there. I just

426
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: recorded something with Nate Tye, your old comrade from the

427
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: Athletic Football Show, and there was some RJ. Harvey slander,

428
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 1: So I'm going to allow you to try to Yes,

429
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of slander. There was a

430
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Speaker 1: little bit of slander. It was honestly, you board just

431
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Speaker 1: like I'm not as high in Harvey as everybody else.

432
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 1: So I consider that slander and that's fine. I'm also

433
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: a big RJ. Harvey. I think he's really really good.

434
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 1: Where do you think the Giants are looking to complement

435
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,880
Speaker 1: Tyrone Tracy? Are they looking for a bruising running back

436
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: to take some of the early down work away from

437
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,679
Speaker 1: him or are they looking for that explosive, fast guy

438
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 1: to give you some of that more third down type

439
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,879
Speaker 1: of explosion. Because the great thing about this running back

440
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,359
Speaker 1: class day, both types of guys are out there. You

441
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 1: can find both.

442
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no doubt. And that's why I don't know

443
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 2: that they're necessarily entering the draft with an idea of

444
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 2: we have to get this style of runner, because I

445
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: think you can make the case they could go either way.

446
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 2: I agree, you know exactly, I think you could. Why

447
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: can't you have two explosive backs in the backfield? You know,

448
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 2: why can't you. But if you want to go maybe

449
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 2: the more traditional route where you have the thunder and

450
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 2: lightning with more of it, a Pounder and a Damien

451
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: Martinez or you know, I love Jordan James. Jordan James

452
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 2: for Oregon is one of my favorite players in this draft.

453
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: He's not gonna get you a break off a sixty

454
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 2: yard run, but he's gonna get you six consistently because

455
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 2: of the way he runs. It's no nonsense. It's okay,

456
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,159
Speaker 2: block it up for me. I'm going to hit the

457
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 2: hole and I'm gonna get you five six yards every time,

458
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 2: so I can win with that. Give me the guy

459
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 2: that has a nose for the sticks. Not a home

460
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: run hitter, but he's going to lead the league in

461
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 2: doubles and that's perfectly fine for me, and I think

462
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 2: it'd be a great fit for what the Giants are

463
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 2: with Tyrone Tracy and maybe what they want to be

464
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 2: on offense. But yeah, if they want to go with

465
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 2: a more explosive back, and you know whether that's you know,

466
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 2: to me, R. J. Harvey falls in that category being

467
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 2: explosive back, a guy that creates consistently. There's so many

468
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: different shapes and it's it's it's ice cream, right. All

469
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 2: the ice cream is good, but everyone has their own

470
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 2: separate favorite flavor, and all these running backs have something

471
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: to offer. It's just you know, what's your flavor? What

472
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 2: kind of back are you're looking for? And there's a

473
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 2: lot of different ways you could go in this class,

474
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 2: And so could it be you know, Caleb Caleb Johnson

475
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: reunite him with Ladzell Betts from the Iowa days. You

476
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 2: can go that direction. If Mary and Hampton were to

477
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 2: slip through the first round, be there at thirty four?

478
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: Could that be a direction that they go? So I

479
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: don't I think they're going to take a running back,

480
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't say it's absolutely going to be in

481
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 2: the first three rounds or it's going to be. There's

482
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 2: a lot of different ways they can attack this position.

483
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: And this might seem like a counter factual to some people,

484
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: but I think running backs might end up slipping in

485
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: this draft Dan just because they have to say to themselves, well,

486
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 1: we can get one later. Why would we use a

487
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,360
Speaker 1: premium pick on one?

488
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 2: Well, and there's so many of them that it's just

489
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: bound happen. Where guys that have third round grades are

490
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 2: available in the fourth. I just you know Jordan James.

491
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: To me, he's a third round player. But if he's

492
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 2: available in the fourth, it wouldn't be a huge surprise

493
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: because there's so many of these guys that there's only

494
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: so many teams that will draft a running back in

495
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,400
Speaker 2: the top one hundred this year, whereas that list will

496
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: expand once we get to Day three and even in

497
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 2: the so there will be guys available in the sixth

498
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: who have fourth and fifth round grades. It's just how

499
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 2: it's going to happen. Because the sheer volume of running

500
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: backs we have here, it's a numbers game, and so

501
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,919
Speaker 2: that will be interesting to see who might end up

502
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: with a big steal, likely somewhere on Day three with

503
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:38,880
Speaker 2: one of these running back.

504
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 1: Now I'm with you, all right, So let's jump to

505
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: the edge spot here. Dan, I'm curious talking to teams

506
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: because I spent the last two or three days just

507
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 1: trying to order my edge players. And I'll bring on

508
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 1: my sheet here. I haven't broken down by position. Trying

509
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: to order my edge rushers from edge rusher number five

510
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: to edge rusher number ten has been like a night.

511
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: There's like something different and maybe something a little bit

512
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: wrong with all of them, but they all have traits

513
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: that you get excited about talking to teams. Isn't it

514
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: as chaotic? You think talking to teams, how they rank

515
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: and group that second group of vegges. Once you get

516
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: past Abdul Carter and maybe just Abdul Quarter, tell me

517
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 1: when that kind of next group starts.

518
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, and I am

519
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: constantly trading, you know, or showing my notes with scouts

520
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 2: and saying like, hey, what do you think of this,

521
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 2: like this stack, and like he's telling me his stack,

522
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: and we kind of trade ideas. And it's very very diverse.

523
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many different opinions on what these

524
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: pass rushers are. You know, some believe in a guy

525
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: like Mikel Williams from Georgia. Others want nothing to do

526
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 2: with Mikel Williams, at least in the first round as

527
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: that type of guy, a top five ed rusher in

528
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 2: this class. Same thing with Shamar Stewart from Texas A

529
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 2: and m He's got a lot of fans around the league.

530
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 2: He's also got a lot of detractors who are looking

531
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: at the one and a half sacks and maybe you're

532
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: not ready to bet high on that athletic potential. And

533
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of different opinions on these guys.

534
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: And then once you get to that second round when

535
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 2: we're talking J. T. Tuamalu from Ohio State or Landon

536
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: Jackson from Arkansas. All a bunch of guys that teams like,

537
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: but the order of how they put them is very different.

538
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: So I got to a point where I was, I'm

539
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: with you, I'm getting stressed out about my edge order

540
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: because it's like, all right, well, this guy's my tenth edge,

541
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: but this team likes him at five, like that he's

542
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 2: a fifth edge, Like am I over underselling who he is?

543
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 2: And you know, it's just there's but I talked to

544
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: another team who has the edge that I have at

545
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: ten down there at twelve. It's like, okay, well, maybe

546
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: it makes you feel a little bit better about where

547
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: I have my guy, but it's I just you come

548
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 2: to the conclusion that this is why the draft is

549
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: so much fun, right. It's because two sets of eyes

550
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 2: can see very different things when you scout these players,

551
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: and it's the edge class. This year might be the

552
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 2: perfect example of that at the top where after Abdol Carter,

553
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: Jaylen Walker, Shamar Stewart, Mike Green, Michael Williams. Like that

554
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: order is going to be very different from team to

555
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: team depending on who you talk to.

556
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: Which Ohio State guy do you like better? I think

557
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: I like Sawyer a lot of a little bit better

558
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: than Toamalow just because of his hand usage.

559
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: See I'm the other way around. I like Toamalo and

560
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: I think he has well. I think that's part of it. Definitely.

561
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 2: I think he has a better floor in terms of

562
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: I just know what I'm getting with him. With Jack Sawyer,

563
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: you know, I I like Jack Sawyer, but I just

564
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 2: felt like he's not going to give me that consistent

565
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: production in terms of the sacks, In terms of the

566
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: backfield number. Jack Sawyer didn't have a single tackle for

567
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: loss this year that wasn't a sack, you know, like

568
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 2: just that's he he did. He did not. He wasn't

569
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 2: disruptive in the run game, even though he was. I

570
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: thought he was a good run defender, but he wasn't

571
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: disruptive enough. Where with Tomalow, especially with he did down

572
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: the stretch. Jack Sawyer gets all the ton of the

573
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: credit and he should what he did against on the

574
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 2: Texas late in that game was tremendous. But Toamalow was

575
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: just almost unblockable at certain points throughout the playoffs. He

576
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: was a big part of what they did. So, yeah,

577
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 2: I would lean that way. I've got a higher grade

578
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: on him. But I think both these guys are Day

579
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 2: two players. And just again, just us talking about these

580
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: two players, it speaks to the fact that there's it's

581
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: not a right or wrong, it's not a it's just you.

582
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: You can see all these guys a little bit differently,

583
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 2: and especially when you factor in scheme and what you

584
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 2: want to do with them, And yeah, it makes his

585
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: for some really interesting conversations.

586
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, what do you think of the guard class

587
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: here on day two? And who are some of the

588
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: guys maybe at thirty four? You know, I don't know

589
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: if one of those guys out of that top tier

590
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: are going to drop down to you. I don't know

591
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: how high Booker and Jackson you go to me. Those

592
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 1: are two safe pick players, and I think they'll probably

593
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: get pushed up the board. These teams will know what

594
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: they're getting with them. But what do you think that

595
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: guard market's gonna look like on Day two? Of the

596
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 1: Giants decide to beef up their offensive line.

597
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty solid group. Really. Like Tate

598
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: Ratledge from Georgia, I think he's every bit worth a

599
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: second round pick. If he weren't injured this year as

600
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: much as he was, I think we'd be talking about

601
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: him as almost a slam dunk top fifty type of guy.

602
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 2: But you know, the medicals that will be a big

603
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 2: part of it, speaking about why we're not talking about

604
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: him as a top as a lock top fifty guy.

605
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: I think Jonas Savane from Arizona tackle guard a little

606
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: bit of versatility that makes sense. I let me ask you,

607
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 2: how do you think, because there's so much debate about

608
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: Tyler Booker right now, and you know, for certain schemes

609
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 2: he's not gonna be a fit, but he will be

610
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: for others. His testing was just so historically low, the

611
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 2: ten yards split, the vert all of that, how do

612
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 2: you think he fits in the Giants offense and what

613
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: they are looking for guard.

614
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with though, I didn't see a bad

615
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: athlete when I watched the tape, Like when I watched him,

616
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: I didn't say, oh my gosh, this guy is going

617
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: to be historically, and he was just look he was

618
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: it was a historically. I mean, the workout was not good,

619
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: but I thought the position of workouts looked alright, even though.

620
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: The test thing is poor, no doubt.

621
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: So I think the Giants used a very variable run

622
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: scheme last year. I think they did start to lean

623
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: into more of that duo stuff later in the year,

624
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: which I think would lean more towards what he likes.

625
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: But then, you know, we talk about you know, you

626
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: mentioned Caleb Johnson is as a connection. Well, if you're

627
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: gona bring in Caleb johnson're gonna really outside zone, right,

628
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: So then maybe then he doesn't make sense for you.

629
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: So they were very variable in the run game last year.

630
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: I think Carn Bursilla and Brian Dabule like to like

631
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,919
Speaker 1: to keep themselves pretty nimble in that way. So I

632
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: have thought about him as a potential pick of thirty four.

633
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: But you're right, he's just so scheme specific in terms

634
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: of what teams will want and what teams won't like.

635
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: If he winds up with the Rams, with the way

636
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: they run the ball, that's gonna be perfect.

637
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 2: But I just don't know, no, and that makes that

638
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: makes all the sense in the world. And that's why

639
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: when you're trying to find that exact landing spot for him,

640
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: it's a little tough because you know, first of all,

641
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: there's only so many teams that will draft a guard

642
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: in the first round, and then you eliminate all the

643
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: outside zone teams and you're left with maybe only a

644
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: few options. So if Tyler Booker were to fall a

645
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: little bit be there at thirty four, that would be

646
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: an interesting spot for him.

647
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would be too. Do you think

648
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: teams see Donovan Jackson as a guard only? You think

649
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: some see him as a guard emergency tackle or do

650
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: some teams actually see him as a tackle?

651
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 2: Some teams actually see him as a tackle, because I

652
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: mean you watch him. His best tape this year is

653
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: a tackle. I mean, plain and simple. It was now

654
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: going to the NFL A projection is more of a

655
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 2: tackle slash guard. I think more teams see him as

656
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: a guard, but they see him have tackle versatility, and

657
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: with good reason, with what he did for Ohio State

658
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: down the stretch. Now, I'm not as high on Donovan

659
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: Jackson as others. I like him quite a bit. I

660
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: think he's a top fifty player. I see him more

661
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: as a Day two player, though I see him as

662
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: a second rounder, whereas there are some teams that look

663
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: at him and say, okay, I mean once we get

664
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: to the into the twenties, he's going to be a

665
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: possibility for us. And so there's definitely some wide ranging

666
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 2: opinions Donovan Jackson as well, all.

667
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: Right, the same way I trouble stacking my edge player's

668
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: day and I trouble stacking my wide receivers. Once you

669
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: get past I would say the top three guys, maybe four.

670
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: I think Golden and egg Buka are level above Burden

671
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: for me. I know a lot of people really love Burden,

672
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: they have him higher, and that's fine. But once you

673
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,959
Speaker 1: get into like the Ohio State, the Iowa State guys,

674
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: the Besches, the Tray Harris', the Kyle Williams, I eleman Are,

675
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: it gets really really tight very quickly. And is this

676
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: when you talk to teams very much like the edge

677
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: class where these rankings are all over the place when

678
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: it comes to that second group.

679
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: Of whiteouts, yeah, for sure. And part of it is

680
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: because we have to remember they're all under the same

681
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: bucket as receivers, but they're all very different. You know,

682
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: you just take the two Iowa State guys. Jayden Higgins

683
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 2: is very different with what he offers and Jalen Noel.

684
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: You know, Higgins can be that big, good size X

685
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: on the outside, where Noel is more I think he

686
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 2: can play inside outside, but teams are gonna look at

687
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: him as probably best in the slot where he can

688
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: be a vertical slot. He can work underneath if he

689
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: can do these different things. And all those other guys

690
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: you mentioned, like Jack Bash is very different with than

691
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: some of these other guys. Trey Harris, same thing. Jalen

692
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: Royals is maybe a little more versatile. He can work

693
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: inside outside, So you know, I certainly understand, you know,

694
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: I see it as I actually have Burden as my

695
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: third receiver. I just I like a Buka. I like

696
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 2: Burden and a Buka. I like they're just more they're

697
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: late ones, and I'm gonna take the guy with the

698
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: higher upside as opposed. But if someone's looking for more

699
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: of a very well rounded and he's a true pro,

700
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: Bukah is your guy all day for sure. And so

701
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: I think it just depends on the type of receiver

702
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: that you want. And then on day two, it's definitely

703
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: a little bit of kind of a grab bag of

704
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: I really like Jalen Noel. He's my fifth receiver this year.

705
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: I just think he's so explosive. He catches everything. Not

706
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: a huge target in terms of catch radius in terms

707
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 2: of you know what the quarterback's seeing, but he catches

708
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: everything thrown his way, and he did it consistently throughout

709
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: the year. He did at the Senior Bowl, tested off

710
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: the charts at the Combine. So it's just like, all right,

711
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: I like Jalen Noel throughout the entire process, and it's

712
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 2: just checkbox, checkbox, checkbox. Why am I holding him down?

713
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 2: Like why can't he be a top forty guy? So ultimately,

714
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: I think that that's where he ends up.

715
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: If you want to know how to manage two minutes

716
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: of crunch time football, I'm your man. But if you're

717
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: wondering about a long term financial plan, you should talk

718
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk long care.

719
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: I'd like to learn about Amili routine.

720
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your

721
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: money with Citizens. He has some very lad McConkie like

722
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: vibes to me.

723
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that's why I was just doing a

724
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: Patriots podcast talking about Jalen Noel being the Mconkie Maya Kulpa, like,

725
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: you know, we passed. We thought he was a slot

726
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: only last year, and we probably made a mistake there

727
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: by trading away from from him. Let's not make the

728
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 2: same mistake with Jalen Noel because even though yeah, he's

729
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: probably best in the slot, but he's not simply a

730
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: slot only. He can do a lot of different things

731
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: for you, So you.

732
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: Are always on top of this. Is it Noel or

733
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: is it nol?

734
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: Uh? I guess yeah, it's it's probably more nol. I mean, see,

735
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: it's funny because when I'm on watching him on tape,

736
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: it's just you know, he's number thirteen for Iowa State.

737
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: But it is more nol. It is more a way

738
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,959
Speaker 2: not to Christmas Noel, It's more, it's more nol. You're right.

739
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: I've gone back and forth. I keep calling them different dames,

740
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: and you're the guy I trust the most. But you

741
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: actually talk to these guys. I actually know exactly what

742
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: it is. That's why I wanted to ask you because the.

743
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: Word yeah, no, it's then that's why you need the beast,

744
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 2: right is the mystery? You have the pronunciations right, there,

745
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: you know, and it's it's it's nol think of like

746
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: a grassy knoll.

747
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, all right, excellent, I'm with you. I think

748
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: he's he he's my fifth guy after those, after those

749
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: top four. I think he's a really really, really good player.

750
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a kind of a Day three

751
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: guy that maybe you can develop into something you more

752
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: of a is is a Tesla guy, You're more of

753
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: a saving on Williams guy, You're more of an armstrong guy.

754
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: Is teammate who's that kind of developmental guy? Or maybe

755
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: you like the Deantive Thorne out of Tennessee, the really fast,

756
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 1: skinny kid. Who is your favorite like kind of upside

757
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: developmental guy in day three.

758
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: If Tory Horton from Colorado State makes it to Day three,

759
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: he'd definitely be my answer. And I think he's kind

760
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: of the forgotten guy in this draft. The knee injury

761
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: mid season. Yeah, and I think back to not this year,

762
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 2: the year before twenty twenty three against Colorado, that epic

763
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: Colorado Colorado State game. You know, he just showed out

764
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 2: in that In that game, he was kind of like, Okay, this,

765
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 2: this is why he should be a top one hundred pick.

766
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: But then he goes back to school has knee injury,

767
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 2: and I gave him a late third early fourth round

768
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: grade just with the medicals, so I could easily see

769
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 2: him go on day two. But if he's still around

770
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: on day four or day three in the fourth round,

771
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: I would love to add him at that point. Savan

772
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 2: Williams is interesting because of you know, I was talking

773
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 2: to a team about where talking about, you know, how

774
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 2: he would stack these you know, three or four players,

775
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: and I include saving On Williams in there, and you know,

776
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: he didn't include him in his receiver stack, and I said, oh,

777
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 2: he's not a saving On Williams fan. He's like, oh, well,

778
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 2: he's a running back slash joker for us. So you know,

779
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: like he's not even viewed as a receiver for that team.

780
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: And it's you understand, understand why watching the tape and

781
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: how he was used in a wildcat quarterback and you know,

782
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: so many of his targets were within five yards of

783
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage and they just they manufactured the

784
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: touches to get the ball in his hands so he

785
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: could go make something happen. And you know, he can

786
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 2: do some things down the field on fades and some

787
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: of those you know, just want him to be a

788
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: ball winner. He can go do that, but not being

789
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 2: a consistent receiver makes the evaluation a little tougher where

790
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: you have to think outside the box with how you're

791
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 2: going to use a player like that for.

792
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: The people that aren't a high technik Milan and I'm

793
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: not going to necessarily put you in that category, but

794
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: I know he's kind of become very divisive I think

795
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: in the draft community over the last couple of weeks.

796
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: For the people that talk to you around the league

797
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: that maybe have some questions about him, what are the

798
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: parts of technic bl one game that they worry about.

799
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 2: Just the fact that he's not a true separator and

800
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: that comes from good speed but not great speed, and

801
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: the fact that he's a good route runner but not

802
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: a great route runner. He needs to get better with

803
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: terms of setting up his routes, being a little more

804
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 2: sharp with how he attacks the stem and sets up

805
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 2: defensive backs. But you know what, he's a ball winner.

806
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: He is, you know, like t Higgins was kind of

807
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: like that two coming out ran a four five nine

808
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: at the forty yard dash at the combine speed wasn't

809
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: his game, but he wins consistently because of the catch

810
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: radius and his ability to attack the football. When you

811
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: watch McMillan, you rarely, if ever see the ball get

812
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 2: into his chest. You rarely see it reach his body

813
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: because he's catching everything out in front, and he will

814
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,879
Speaker 2: make catches at his shoe tops. He will make it.

815
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,439
Speaker 2: He'll go up in the clouds, climb the ladder, bring

816
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 2: it down. So I'm gonna bet on a guy like that,

817
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 2: even though I wish you were a little bit faster.

818
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: I wish the separation skills, the route running polish were

819
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 2: a little bit better. But I'll bet on a guy

820
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 2: that has the ability to be a ball winner consistently

821
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: and has the flexibility. And you see the volleyball background,

822
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: the basketball background with him, so I'd be willing to

823
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 2: make that bet. Now, you prop him into last year's class,

824
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 2: and he would have been my what fifth receiver in

825
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: last year's class? Would He would have been behind Marvin

826
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: Harrison Junior and my league neighbors, Roma Dunes, and then

827
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: Brian Thomas. All four of those guys were top fifteen

828
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: players in last year's draft. This you drop tet into

829
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: that mix and he's my fifth receiver, so you know,

830
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 2: just in terms of understanding the context. But it's still

831
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 2: a good player. Still is someone that not everyone's going

832
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: to be high on. But you understand why the teams

833
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 2: that are. You understand how they arrived at that arrived

834
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: at that point.

835
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: How universal is it or is it not universal at all?

836
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: Who the top tight end is in this class? And

837
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: what's that debate like when you talk to people?

838
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, see, and I don't even think it's a debate.

839
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 2: It's more of a what do you want? You know,

840
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: do you want the h know? With Colston Loveland, you

841
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: have a guy that is I think the more more upside,

842
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: but more question marks in terms of him staying healthy,

843
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: just an overall route tree him as a blocker, like

844
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: you see the vision with Colson Loveland and how good

845
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: of an athlete he is. I think he can be

846
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: a real big playmaker in the NFL. Uh, But it

847
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: takes a little bit more faith and projection with him,

848
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: where with Tyler Warren you saw what he did and

849
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: what he meant to that Penn State offense this year.

850
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: A very clean player, He's not He's not a dominant

851
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 2: blocker by any means. I don't think like sometimes I

852
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: think he gets painted as that where he's an okay

853
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: blocker and a little bit better than Colston Loveland. But

854
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 2: and then also as a as a pass catcher, he's

855
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: he's a good athlete, not a great athlete, not quite

856
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: like Colston Loveland, but he catches everything. And you just

857
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 2: know what you're getting with Tyler Warren, So a higher

858
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 2: floor or you're going for the higher ceiling. And I

859
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 2: think that's where the debate comes with these two tight ends,

860
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: just which one, which one would you rather have? And

861
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: I leaned I usually I leaned towards stepside I usually do.

862
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: With this situation, I leaned a little bit more towards

863
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 2: the higher floor with Tyler Warren just because the injury

864
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: stuff this year that Colson Loveland dealt with bothered me

865
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: a little bit. But both these guys are top ten,

866
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: top twelve type of players in the draft.

867
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: So when's your seven round mock dropping?

868
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 2: What is that coming next week? And I've ho it going,

869
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: you know, I thought I was in a good spot,

870
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: but then I really trying to figure out what to

871
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: do with Shador is the is the thing, you know,

872
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 2: just talking to people the last few days. I have

873
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: a lot. I've had a lot of conversations with people

874
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: talking about the Beast and so, you know, talking with

875
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: people in the league about, hey, well, well I've have

876
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: you what do you think a shutter is going to go?

877
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: And I tell you it's there's no consensus. Nobody knows,

878
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 2: nobody has a good feel for it. Some still think it.

879
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: I could see him going third to the Giants, but

880
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 2: other teams or other guys, other scouts are like, he'll

881
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: still be there in the twenties. And so it's it's

882
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 2: gonna be a lot of fun on draft night, which

883
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 2: honestly I'm here for. I don't care if I get

884
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 2: it right on my mock draft. Give me the drama,

885
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: give me the fun of the draft, and that always

886
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 2: makes for some good TV and a good time, and

887
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: that's what we're here for.

888
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: So finally drought me some names. And obviously this can

889
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: change by the time it's final. Give me some names

890
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: of players or a feel for what you think this

891
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: Giants draft might look at as you put your seven

892
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: round mock together.

893
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: Trying to figure ou where I'm gona give the quarterback.

894
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: You know, spoiler, I do think it'll be Abdul Carter

895
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 2: at third a third overall, But then where do they

896
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: get the quarterback? And how do they do it? They

897
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 2: just stick and pick at thirty four? Do they try

898
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 2: to move around a little bit? And which one will

899
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 2: it be? I think just trying to figure out the

900
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 2: musical chairs of quarterbacks. Where's Jalen Millroe gonna go? Wheres

901
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: Tyler Shuck going? Again the Chador conversation. So I will

902
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: be giving the Giants a quarterback. It's just as I'm

903
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent sure how exactly am I go

904
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 2: about it. Still have a few more phone calls to

905
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: make and try to figure out just where teams are leaning,

906
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 2: because again, the Giants aren't going to tell me what

907
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: they're gonna do, but other teams will tell me what

908
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: they think the Giants are gonna do, and so that'll

909
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 2: factor into ultimately where I go. And then in third round,

910
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:18,799
Speaker 2: is it gonna be a running back? Is it gonna

911
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 2: be a defensive tackle? Several different ways we could go,

912
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think it's gonna be an interesting process

913
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: as I go through. That'll be my focus here the

914
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: next three days. Try to knock that out and it'll

915
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 2: be up next week.

916
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: On the athletic Yeah, look, I think picks at sixty four,

917
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 1: ninety nine and one oh five day and those that's

918
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: like the meat of this draft right where you're gonna

919
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: get pretty good value. And I think you can find

920
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: starters in such a deep draft at those spots if

921
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: you pick the right guys, and frankly, you attack the

922
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: right positions based on the deep ones we've talked.

923
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: About, right, right, And that's the thing is, you know,

924
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: you you lay out the needs obviously, but it doesn't

925
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: always end up. It's not like, Okay, need one is this,

926
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 2: so that's where they go in the first round, need

927
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: two is this? Okay, that's where they going in the

928
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 2: second round. Like that's just not how it works realistically,

929
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: and so you try to maximize value with being realistic

930
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: about Okay, there's some breadcrumbs here I could see. You know,

931
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 2: this is a team that traditionally does it this way,

932
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 2: and so you try to factor in all those trends

933
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: and everything like that. And that's obviously easier said than

934
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 2: done putting together a mock like that, but you know,

935
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: you try your best, trying to make it as realistic

936
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 2: as possible.

937
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: All Right, Finally, as we say goodbye here. Dan gave

938
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: me two or three Dame Brugler pet cats that you

939
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: like a lot better than maybe some other people in

940
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: the draft.

941
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 2: Definitely a few. You know, I mentioned Tory Horton. He's

942
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: one of those guys for me. Ironically, I like a

943
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 2: lot of Oregon guys this year, and it starts with

944
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: Derek Harmon at the top. He's not really a sleep

945
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 2: or anything like that. He's going to be a top

946
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: twenty player. But you know, I mentioned Jordan James. I

947
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 2: like a lot Terrence ferguson the tight end should is

948
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 2: a top one hundred pick to me all day. I

949
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 2: think he's a better player than what we've seen so far.

950
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: His best football is ahead of him. Jamari Caldwell for

951
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: the other defensive Townckle, who's got a fun story as well.

952
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: People can read up on that in the Beast. So

953
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 2: a lot of Oregon players. I'm pretty high on Dylan Fairchild,

954
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: the guard from Georgia who you know we Jared Wilson's

955
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 2: going to go early. Tate Ratletch is going to go early.

956
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: Don't forget about Fairchild. He's to me. I see a

957
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: lot of Wyatt Teller there and that's you can get

958
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: a guy like that late third, early fourth round. Still

959
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 2: has some developing to do, but at his peak on

960
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: a film, he looks like Wyatt Teller, and so I

961
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 2: like him quite a bit more than I think most people.

962
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think you laid it out second round,

963
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: third round, fourth round, a lot of starters in that range,

964
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: and so it's gonna be hard to give up one

965
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: of those picks to move up in a trade. So

966
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: I think there's a good chance we might see the

967
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: Giants state pat and say, let's let's build up this

968
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: roster with more starters and you know, help we can

969
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: find the quarterback along the way.

970
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there's not going to be that

971
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: many trades. Teams don't seem like they're looking to trade

972
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: up a lot in this draft, correct.

973
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: I would lean that way. I think the only thing

974
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: that might change at is I don't think the asking

975
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: prices will be as much, just because you know, if

976
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: I'm picking at twenty five and a team at thirty

977
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 2: or thirty three is looking at trade up, you know,

978
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 2: I don't know that the asking price will necessarily have

979
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 2: to be high because the player you're looking at at

980
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: twenty four you're think of looking at thirty three and saying, well,

981
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 2: it's kind of the same player, so kind of the

982
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 2: same grade. So if the asking price is a late

983
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 2: third or fourth, you know, maybe teams will be willing

984
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: to do it that way. So that's the only way

985
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 2: I see a lot of trades if the asking prices

986
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 2: aren't as expensive as traditionally we're used to seeing.

987
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Dame promote whatever you want to promote, my friend.

988
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's all about the Beast, right, I mean, that's

989
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: the it's on the Athletic. You have your subscription, then

990
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: you can you know, see the micro site and all

991
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: the different ways that we have the Beast incorporated on there.

992
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: If you want to proun the PDF, you can do

993
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 2: it that way. It's the most comprehensive draft guy you

994
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: have out there. There's no other resource that has testing

995
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: I verified testing information for over twenty six hundred players.

996
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: You know, just all the backstories, some stuff in there,

997
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 2: some good nuggets you're not gonna find anywhere else. So

998
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: make sure you have this as a resource guide for

999
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 2: you the next two weeks and then obviously all through

1000
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 2: draft weekend.

1001
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: You should be very proud Dan. As always, it's fantastic work.

1002
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: It's a literally a year worth of labor for you.

1003
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: I know it starts again in what two or three weeks,

1004
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: and then you start on next year's version. You should

1005
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: be really proud of yourself. You do a great job,

1006
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: and I hope you know how much everyone in this

1007
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: community appreciates having that handbook handy over the next couple

1008
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: of weeks. Man, great job.

1009
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 2: No, I appreciate that. Thank you for saying.

1010
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: John Dan Brugler from The Athletic, thanks for joining us

1011
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: on the Giants Little Podcast, brought to you by Citizens,

1012
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: the official bank of the Giants. We'll see you live

1013
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: from the Hacketsack Mariney Health Podcast Studio. Keep getting better

1014
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: next time on the Johnsttle Podcast