1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: From Futuro Media. It's led USA. I'm Maria ino Josa today. 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: A conversation with a Cuban American democrat who grew up 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, became a police chief, and now is 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: a progressive prosecutor District attorney, George Gascon. George Gascon was 5 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: born in Cuba in the nineteen fifties. Though at that 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: time he wasn't called George. 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 2: No, no, they named me Jorge. But then I went 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: in the army, people kept spelling my name g or Ge, 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: and I finally relented. 10 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: Gascon moved with his family to Los Angeles County when 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: he was thirteen. He held onto his native language, but 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: his Cuban Spanish started to change. 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: I grew up around Mexicans more than I did around Cubans. 14 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: So actually when I'm around Mexicans, I sound less and less, 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: and I have to be a wrong quees for a 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: few hours before I begin to song q on again. 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: Gascon adapted to his new home, and as a young man, 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: he joined the Los Angeles Police Department. Now he's making 19 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: headlines for reasons that you might not expect from someone 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: who spent decades as a police officer. Gascon was recently 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: elected as District attorney for Los Angeles County, which is 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: the largest local prosecutor's office in the country, and his 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: victory has been hailed as a major win for a 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: movement of progressive prosecutors who want to end mass incarceration 25 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: and overhauled the United States law enforcement system from the inside. 26 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Gascon has had a circuitous journey from beatcop to top prosecutor. 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: After rising through the ranks at the LAPD and earning 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: a law degree, he moved to Mesa, Arizona, where he 29 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: served as police chief. Then he moved to San Francisco, 30 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: where he also served as police chief until he was 31 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: appointed to replace Kamala Harris as district attorney in twenty eleven. 32 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: While he was there, he co authored California's Proposition forty seven, 33 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: which reclassified many nonviolent and drug crimes from felonies to misdemeanors, 34 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: which significantly reduced the state's prison population. Gascon has been 35 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: called the godfather of progressive prosecutors. I sat down with 36 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: him just a few days before he took the reins 37 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: of his home city's District attorney's office to talk about 38 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: his upbringing in Los Angeles, how being a police officer, 39 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: has shaped his view of criminal justice and what his 40 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: vision is for his new job. George Gascon, welcome to 41 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: let you know. 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: Usa Adiya, how are you commostas. 43 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: So you are born in truly one of the most 44 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: fabulous cities of the world. 45 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: Thank you. 46 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: It is. Havana is just one of the most extraordinary 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: cities of the world. Growing up there as a little kid, 48 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what that's like. It's the early 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: years of the Cuban Revolution, and when you're thirteen years old, 50 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: your family leaves Cuba all together and you moved to 51 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: how is it said today, Kaya Katah, which is a 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: suburb of Los Angeles. 53 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 2: And we'll call it. There's not much of a sobering. 54 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: L I got you, I got you. So what was 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: it like then to go from Havana to, as you say, 56 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: a barrio of Los Angeles. 57 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was interesting because I grew up 58 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: in a poor neighborhood in Atlanta. My father was a 59 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: factory worker. He worked for beer brewery. He was a mechanic. 60 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: He had been a revolutionary, you know, fighting Battista. In fact, 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: he almost died. He was left for dead as a 62 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: young man by the Batista police and then uh and 63 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: then he became an anti Castro guy. But we lived 64 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: in a in a very very very blue collar neighborhood. 65 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: Of course, as you well know, Q was fully integrated, 66 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 2: so you know, we had black Cubans, white Cubans, Chinese, 67 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: so it was a very integrated environment. And then when 68 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: we got to Kadahey, we were one of the first 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: few Latino families. Mostly they were poor whites. So the 70 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: kids that I went to school, by and large were 71 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: poor white. The socio economic part of it really didn't 72 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: hit me because I came from a place quite frankly, 73 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: by comparison, was even probably poor, although we had a 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: lot more freedom as kids to run around the streets 75 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: and be ourselves, which is not quite the same in 76 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: this country. 77 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: In fact, you have said that when you're this kid, 78 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: this Spanish speaking kid in a poor white barrio, that 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: the police were not necessarily good to you. It was 80 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: not necessarily officer friendly the person who you were interacting with, 81 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: and what was your understanding was you're understanding again, like 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: they're picking on me because I speak Spanish, or because 83 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: I'm different, or they just pick on everybody in our 84 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: community because we're poor. What was your analysis of why 85 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: the police were doing this. 86 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: What happens is Kaday became Latino very very quickly. I 87 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: think we just came maybe at the tail end of 88 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: that being primarily poor white to very quickly started to 89 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 2: turn for mostly Mexican. And you know, when I was thirteen, 90 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: I didn't quite get I mean, the police was not 91 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: an issue. It really became more so by the time 92 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 2: I turned sixteen, you know, and I started to drive 93 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: and started to mix with other kids, and you know, 94 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: I remember my dad had sixty three in Paula that 95 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 2: he was going to trade in and I got it 96 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: for him and I lowered the car. So I had 97 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 2: a low rider and all a certain where you know, I'm. 98 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: Becoming I'm becoming a low rider. I had a low 99 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: rider in a second. And did you soup it up? 100 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: Did you dropped it? I didn't put any hydraulics on it. 101 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: I didn't have the money. Hydraulics were expensive. 102 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: So what's your favorite song from that moment when you 103 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: think of the lowrider driving around? Do you have one? 104 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? I told you one and it came out a 105 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: little later, and it was, uh, it's low writers. The 106 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: name of the song and I got the. 107 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: Group Oh you mean War War of course, that was 108 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: just like it's the one that goes yeah yeah. 109 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:37,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was my that was my national no bad. 110 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: So is that in part why the police would kind 111 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: of target you because you you dropped your car and 112 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: you were listening to some loud music. 113 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: I think it was definitely the dropped the car. And 114 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 2: that was before I had gray hair, so I had, 115 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: you know, I had deep black hair, even though I'm 116 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: very like completed, you know, I definitely you know, Latin 117 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: all the time, more so than I would today. And 118 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: then you know, I hang around with other kids that 119 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: they were brown, and you know, we went to East 120 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: LA and we drove around Wader Boulevards. So it was, 121 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: you know, probably a combination of all the things. 122 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: So did you understand that you were being targeted by 123 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: the police? Is that how your young mind understood that? 124 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: And what was your mind at that age thinking about 125 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: the police. Were you thinking like, oh my god, here 126 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: they come, here they come again, or were you thinking 127 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: like I want to be one? 128 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 2: No, No, we definitely felt targeted and I did not 129 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 2: want to be one, and you know, we look for 130 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: every way to avoid it. And frankly, I mean when 131 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: when circle, if I was driving and the black and 132 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: white came anywhere near, you know, it was like, oh shit, 133 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to get jugged up. And most of the 134 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: time I was right, and it didn't matter what I did. 135 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: You know, I could be going on speed limit, like 136 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: it really didn't matter. I would stop because I'm going 137 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: too slow. I'm going to stop because I quote unquote 138 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: rolled through a stuff sign. I mean, you know, all 139 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: the bullshit, and and if I was on like you know, 140 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: around Whin or Bow or on the weekends or something 141 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 2: you knew you were going to get, it was almost 142 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: like it was hard to imagine that that either you 143 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: or one of your friends was going to not going 144 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: to be stopped before the night was old. 145 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: Interestingly, even though you know you have this pretty extraordinary 146 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: position back then, you drop out of high school, you 147 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: were in fact one of those statistics, you know, Latinos 148 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: dropping out of high school. You joined the army, then 149 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: you go to college. So what happens where you were like, no, 150 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm not going to become that. But then after the 151 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: army and you come back, you're like, Okay, I think 152 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to do that. 153 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: I go in the Army. I wound up you know, 154 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 2: doing well, you know, frankly, the Army. For me, it 155 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: was a great move, I think mostly because that I 156 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: grew up with. Uh you know, they sort of never 157 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: when I say this, they never left the neighborhood. I 158 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: said that on a way that just you know, Soto 159 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: trapped him and they wound up, you know, sometimes getting arrested, 160 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: you know, getting in trouble. For me, the Army was 161 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: it gave me an opportunity to break away. And I 162 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 2: was going to call day Long Beach, finishing my bachelor degree. 163 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: And I had a friend of mine that had joined 164 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: the LAPD a few months before, maybe like a half 165 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: a year before, and he was talking about how proud 166 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: he felt about the work and how exciting he founded 167 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: and you know, the capacity to do good working communities 168 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: that were very similar to the ones that we grew up. 169 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: And that really kind of is what sort of tipped 170 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: me over. I was intending to be a teacher, frankly, 171 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: this story teacher, and I was newly married and we 172 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: were planning to have kids, and cups made more money 173 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: on teachers, which continues to be the case. We by 174 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: the way it really shows house grew up. We're a 175 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: society where police make more than teachers. Now that police 176 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 2: is not an important work, but I find that, you 177 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: know that is that is probably an indication of just 178 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: how wrong our priorities from time to time. 179 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: You were actually a police officer for more than thirty 180 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: years before you become a district attorney. So what were 181 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: your main takeaways from all of those years of policing 182 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: in terms of the criminal justice system and how it works. 183 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: So, you know, within my own evolution in policing, I 184 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 2: came to the conclusion that we were incarcerating way too 185 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: many people, that we were destroying one generation after another, 186 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: for mainly black and brown people. And the more that 187 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: I read, the more that I learned, the more that 188 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: I became convinced that there was no data, no science 189 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 2: to support that actually just made us any safer. In fact, 190 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: arguably it made us less safe, because what occurs is 191 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 2: when you get young people into the criminal justice system, 192 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: you criminalize them early on. You basically foreclose all the 193 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: other options because you give them a criminal record so 194 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 2: they can get house in schooling and other things, and 195 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: often they are left with very little option. But to 196 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 2: go back to doing things illegally. And so what you 197 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: do is you increase the resiluce rate and you reduce 198 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 2: the safety, and then you create this incredible social cost 199 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 2: to this mass incarceration movement and the economic costs too. 200 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: So I became very anti mass incarceration, and when Gavin 201 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: Newson offered me the job, when Kamala Harris became the 202 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: Attorney General, I was very singlear focused in being able 203 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 2: to show that you can lower incarceration and increase community safety. 204 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 2: And that was really my goal. 205 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA, and I talked with George 206 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: Gascon about creating a blueprint for the progressive prosecutor movement 207 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: and what law enforcement should look like during a pandemic. 208 00:11:50,800 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: Stay with US notes, Hey, we're back, And before the break, 209 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: I was speaking with the new Los Angeles County District Attorney, 210 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: George Gascon about how his background as a Cuban American 211 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: teenager in LA and then as a police officer has 212 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: shaped his philosophy of law enforcement. Now we're going to 213 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: turn to Gascon's time as a district attorney in San 214 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: Francisco and talk about what it looks like to put 215 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: his philosophy into action. Let's get back to the conversation. 216 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: You do make a lot of changes as a district 217 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: attorney in the office in San Francisco. You create restorative 218 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 1: justice programs, You stop finding homeless people for things like 219 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: sleeping on the sidewalk. You co author California's Proposition forty 220 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: seven in twenty fourteen, which was a big deal because 221 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: it reclassified most nonviolent property and drug crimes from felonies 222 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: to misdemeanors. And this is huge for young men of color. 223 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: So at this point, were you beyond mass incarceration. Were 224 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: you thinking like, there's a whole other thing that's going 225 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: on here. How did you understand your philosophy behind these efforts. 226 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so as I evolve in my own 227 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: processes of this attorney, I'm facing the fact that you 228 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 2: can walk away from the mass incarceration is really driven 229 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: by by race. And so then I started to not 230 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 2: pivot away from looking for wasteus incarceration because I continued 231 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: to be a focus. But then the issue of the 232 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 2: impact the interaction between race and the criminal justice system 233 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 2: became more and more part of my focus, if you will, 234 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 2: and my attention, and that was sort of an evolution. 235 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: For me, it didn't happen immediately when I was a 236 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: district attorney. And then, you know, frankly, looking at the 237 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: impact that we need, a Proposition forty seven was going 238 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: to have that not only was it going to be 239 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: a big decarcerator, but it was more than just being 240 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: a decarcerator. It's going to be a major decarcerator black 241 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 2: and brown people, which had turned out to be. By 242 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 2: the way, there were studies that were done that have 243 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: clearly concluded that the biggest impact, especially on African American 244 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 2: incarceration race with Prop forty seven. 245 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: You know, in the state, So when you step down 246 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: as the DA from San Francisco, violent crime in the 247 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: city was at its lowest rate in half a century, 248 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: So that's pretty cool. On the other hand, property crimes 249 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: like car breakings had gone up almost forty percent, and 250 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, you've been criticized for that kind of like, oh, 251 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: your progressive policies aren't working here. So you have studied this, 252 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: you have looked at the data. What do you understand 253 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: in terms of the cause of crime and why it 254 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: goes up and down and what role does your work 255 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: as a district attorney ultimately have to do with that. 256 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 2: So a couple of components number one. After forty seven, 257 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 2: many police departments decided that they were going to show 258 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: people like me and the public that they were going 259 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: to come to work slow down. So in San Francisco, 260 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: property crime was vastly driven by car break ins. We 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: have eighty one thousand car breakings. They're thirteen arrests. There 262 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: is no way that you can control anything by a 263 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: lack of police intervention. By the way, police intervention doesn't 264 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 2: mean that you have to incarcerate people, but somebody has 265 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: to come in and stop things, and then we have 266 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 2: to assess what do we do to intervene. But to 267 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: the second point that you make, and what is the 268 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 2: role of a district attorney in this arena? I think 269 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: that we need to begin to recognize as a society 270 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: that the criminal justice system has very limited application when 271 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: it comes to dealing with the causes of crime. When 272 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: we jump into a situation, we're basically coming in because 273 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: everything else failed, right, So we need to understand that 274 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 2: if we want to stop or if we want to reduce, 275 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: especially when you're talking about property crimes and crimes of poverty, 276 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 2: you need to start much earlier than that by providing 277 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: the resources and the early interventions and the opportunities that 278 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 2: are going to move people away from the likelihood of 279 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: breaking into a car and going and doing something else. 280 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 2: We have to provide enough mental health services to make 281 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: sure that people that are suffering from mental health are 282 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 2: going to have a place to go. We need to 283 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: make sure that housing becomes a right, not necessarily a 284 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: privilege for some. This are all the things that we 285 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: have to invest as a society if we want to 286 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 2: create a safer community. But what we did about thirty 287 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: five forty years ago, we decided, you know, we're at 288 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: a fork with the epidemic of crack, and you know, 289 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 2: some countries decided to look at it through a public 290 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 2: health like Portugal did, and we decided to put our 291 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: criminal justice system on you know, after burners, and we 292 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: build a lot of prisons. We shut down schools, we 293 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 2: shut down hospitals. You know, we defunded public education, we 294 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: defunded mental health and public health, and we took that 295 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: money and put it into the law enforcement prison bucket. 296 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: And we're now paying the price for that. 297 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: You're about to take over as the District attorney in 298 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: Los Angeles county at a time when there has been 299 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: an increase in violent crime. Violent crime has been a 300 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: problem in cities across the country this year, sadly, So 301 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: what is your role in terms of taking this on 302 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: as a progressive DA in this moment. 303 00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, Look, my role is going to be 304 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: to be a thoughtful partner to our public health officials, 305 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 2: to be a thoughtful partner to our social services, to 306 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 2: our community based organizations, and make sure that we start 307 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: working together. Look, there's always going to be a place 308 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 2: for prosecution and yelling and prison for some people. The 309 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: question is what is the right size to that and 310 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: when do we use that very aggressive intervention that generally 311 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: has a lot of bad effects. So my role will 312 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 2: be one of, you know, bringing people together, to bring 313 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 2: to create local solutions that are going to address our 314 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 2: problems and hopefully start creating blueprints that we can learn 315 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 2: from and take to other parts of the country. And 316 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 2: above all, you know, not to engage in the tough 317 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 2: on crime rhetoric that can sort of start unwinding the 318 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: progress that we have made. Unquestionably, homicides have gone up 319 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 2: in many parts of the country, but I think as 320 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: important to realize also that there are many forces at 321 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: play right now. You know, we're going through this horrible pandemic. 322 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,479 Speaker 2: There are a lot of social issues that are happening 323 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 2: at the same time, and I think that we have 324 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 2: to be a little careful and jump to any conclusions 325 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: that try to, you know, attach any particular meaning to 326 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: policies to answer for the fact that we've had a 327 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 2: jumping in homicide in many major cities. Sociologists and criminologis 328 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 2: are going to be studying this decades from now, and 329 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: what we have to do is make sure that we 330 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 2: do not take the easy road and immediately try to 331 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: start demonizing one part of our community as the way 332 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: to try to quote unquote fix the problem. 333 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: One group that opposed your candidacy for District Attorney in 334 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: Los Angeles was in fact the police union. So why 335 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: do you think that there's been so much opposition from 336 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: people who I imagine used to be your colleagues and 337 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: your friends at the LAPDE. I mean, this must have 338 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: been a tough pill to swallow that the union that 339 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: you were probably a part of is saying that they 340 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: can't support you because you're too progressive. And how do 341 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: you go about kind of repairing that relationship. 342 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 2: I always tell people that you sometimes have to follow 343 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: the money. Prist and guard unions and police unions in 344 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: the last thirty years in this country have become incredibly 345 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 2: politically powerful, and they had this very unique situation that 346 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 2: other unions don't have, that they can further their goals 347 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 2: of becoming bigger and more politically powerful by sort of 348 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: disguising themselves behind the bass and say I'm doing this 349 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: because I want to protect you. And when you look 350 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: at most of the policies the police unions push forward 351 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 2: have nothing to do with public safety. In fact, they 352 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 2: often actually are detrimental to public safety. And I think 353 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 2: that what happened in this cycle is that the publics 354 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 2: that we had it with this stuff. I was running 355 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: against the law and order candidate and I won by 356 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 2: eight percent. And at the same time there was a 357 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: local county measure measure Jade that actually talked about taking 358 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 2: ten percent from the discretionary budget from the sheriff department 359 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 2: and the probation and the distric attorney and put that 360 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 2: money into mental health service and social service and that one. 361 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: So I'm telling that to police. I said, look, reform 362 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 2: is not only here it's going to continue and it's 363 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: going to move forward. And the options that you have 364 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 2: you either join this and become a problem solverere and 365 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 2: become a part of the solution, or you're going to 366 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 2: get run over. You know. It's like sometimes progress is 367 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: going to move regardless of whether you're there or not. 368 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: I just want to know, George, what, because you've kind 369 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,399 Speaker 1: of bopped about, you know, you from Havana to the 370 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: barrios of Los Angeles, to Mesa to San Francisco. You're 371 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: back home now I am in La what's it like 372 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: to be back in your kind of home neck of 373 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: the woods and being in this position of really tremendous 374 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: power and the capacity to really make an impact on 375 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: the state that as you know, in a city, in 376 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: an area county that has a lot of influence in 377 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the country. 378 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, first of all, I love it. This 379 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: is You're absolutely right, this is home. And it's also 380 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: full of contradictions like most of our country, right, you know, 381 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: it's also extreme wealth and extreme poverty. Right, we have 382 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 2: the largest homeless problem in the country. The economic disparities 383 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: have only accentuated themselves with COVID, Right, So this is 384 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 2: this great, crazy place with so much going on, and 385 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: yet there's so much inequity, and you know, I'm hoping 386 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: that I have at least put a little grain of 387 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: salt towards, you know, having an impact on making things 388 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 2: a little better. 389 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to need George Gascon. Thank you so much 390 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: for speaking with me on Latino USA. 391 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 2: Thank you, Maria. 392 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by alisaes Garce and edited by 393 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: Marta Martinez. The Latino USA team includes Niel Macias, Andrea Lopes, Gruzsado, 394 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,479 Speaker 1: Julieta Martinelli, Gini mon Dalbo Alejandra Selasa and Renaldo Leangos Junior, 395 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: with help from Rau Es. Special thanks to Fabio La Cramski. 396 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: Our engineers are Stephanie Lobau, Julie Caruso and Liah Shaw, 397 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: with help from Elishiva YouTube. Our digital editor is Luis Luna. 398 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is Julia Rocha. 399 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: Our interns are Jimla del serroml Sequiros and Gabriela Bayez. 400 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: Our theme music was composed by Sane Robinos. If you 401 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: like the music you heard on this episode, stop by 402 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: Latinousa dot org. Check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm 403 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: your host and executive producer Maria Rojosa. Join us again 404 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: on our next episode, and in the meantime, I'll see 405 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: you on all of our social media Hi loos meo c. 406 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 3: Ciaolatino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment 407 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 3: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians, 408 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 3: The Heising Simons Foundation unlocking knowledge, opportunity and possibilities more 409 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 3: at hsfoundation dot org, and funding for Latinousa's coverage of 410 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 3: a culture of health is made possible in part by 411 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 3: a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. 412 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: I'm Maria nor Rosa, Next time on Latino USA. This year, 413 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: the holidays are looking a bit different. So how are 414 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: we adapting to socially distant holidays? That's next time on 415 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: Latino USA.