1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,639 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Breaking news tonight after a so called sighting of missing 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 2: autistic boy Sebastian Rogers at a Blue Ridge Mountain's rest stop. 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 2: Sebastian's dad, Seth tells us it's him and with us 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: Tonight live Dad Seth Rogers to address that polygraph tonight, 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: where is missing autistic boy Sebastian Rogers? Good evening, I'm 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 2: you for being with us. 9 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 3: A woman rushing to meet family at the visitors Center 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 3: in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina takes a 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: photo of the area and the people hanging around. When 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 3: she takes a closer look at the photo, later, she 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 3: realizes that a boy in the photo bears a striking 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 3: resemblance to Sebastian Rodgers and contacts authorities. Investigators have been 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 3: trying to locate the person in the photo. The Sheriff's 16 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 3: office confirms that they have reached out in Our Carolina 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: authorities about the picture, but so far, nothing credible has 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: resulted from their inquiries. 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: Tonight, a mysterious update in the search for a missing 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: autistic boy as a woman shares a photo of a 21 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: little boy bearing an uncanny resemblance to missing autistic boy 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: Sebastian Rogers joining us an all star panel to make 23 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: sense of what we are hearing. But first I want 24 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: to go straight out to Sebastian's father joining us, Seth Rogers. 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 2: You can find him at hashtag Sebastian Strong. 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: Seth. Thank you for being with us, Seth. 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: I was stunned when I saw the side by side 28 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: of Sebastian and the boys spotted at the guest center. 29 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: What do you make of it? 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 4: When I saw the picture, all I turned around and 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 4: loaded up to Vita Glewin off the North Carolina. 32 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: Is with Lauren colin Is joining us, investigative journalist and 33 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: host of the Outlier podcast. Lauren, thank you for being 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: with us. What can you tell me about the siding? 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 2: Because the authorities are not saying it's not him. They 36 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 2: are saying, quote, nothing credible is pointing to the siding 37 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: of Sebastian. In other words, they haven't been able to 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: confirm it yet. 39 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: Remember this is like a rest stop, a tourist center. 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: People are visiting there that could live in any of 41 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: the surrounding states. 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 5: Absolutely, Nancy and I think what's important to note here 43 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 5: is that North Carolina authorities have not identified the boy 44 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 5: in the photo, so as of right now, it's still 45 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 5: considered a potential lead. 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 2: Guys joining us is Seth Rogers, Sebastian's dad, and Lauren Conlin, 47 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: host of Outlier podcast. Seth tell me what went through 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: your mind when you first saw this photo? And when 49 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: you compare them side by side, it's really uncanny. 50 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 4: You know, my son's alive. That he I mean, he 51 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 4: looks good in the picture. I mean he's got clothes on, 52 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 4: he's got shoes on. 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: Do you recognize the clothes? 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: No, I don't. 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: How about the shoes? 56 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 4: Don't recognize those either? They look brand new? 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: Yes they do. In fact, the clothes look me as well. 58 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: How far away in your estimation, Seth, is this restop 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: tourist attraction area from Sebastian's home. 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 4: It's about six hours give or tape with traffic. 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 2: How did you become aware of the siding, the alleged siding. 62 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 6: People started calling me and asking me about the picture, 63 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 6: and then people turn around and started sending me the picture. 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: And again, what went through your mind when you first 65 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: saw it. 66 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 6: I gotta go, I've got to go up there I 67 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 6: got to see. I meant the pigs there. I wanted 68 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 6: to go see the footage because I figured there'd be 69 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 6: some type of surveillance. 70 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: And did you go? 71 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 4: I did? I drove up to North Carolina. 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 2: You took the sixth hour plus ride to North Carolina 73 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: to investigate this photo? 74 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: And what if anything did you learn when you got there? 75 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 4: That I wasn't allowed to see the video footage? 76 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: Why? 77 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 4: I was told it's an active investigation, so I'm not 78 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 4: allowed to see it. 79 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: Who told you that, Seth? 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 4: People at the park. 81 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: It's my understanding. 82 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 2: The woman who took the picture was also convinced that 83 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: this looked exactly like Sebastian and handed it over to 84 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: the TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, and then later 85 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: it was posted online. 86 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: Is that your understanding, Seth? 87 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, Seth. 88 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: When you saw this picture, how did it make you feel? 89 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 4: Gave me hope? Rekindled what hope I. 90 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: Was losing, Seth. 91 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: I'm looking at the way the boy is standing in 92 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: this photo. 93 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: I know you've looked at it a million times. 94 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: He's got his right arm somewhat over his stomach, and 95 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 2: I'm wondering, does this pose look familiar to you. 96 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 4: By the I mean, by the looks of it. He's 97 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 4: stepping down off the rocks and stuff. He's looking at 98 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 4: where he's going. Yeah, but he's. 99 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 6: Also been missing for two months, so his demeanor and 100 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 6: everything could possibly have shifted. 101 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: In what way? Why do you say that I haven't. 102 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 6: Heard from my son and two and a half months. 103 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,239 Speaker 6: You know, if he's not he doesn't have a phone 104 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 6: with him. You know he hasn't heard from me. If 105 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 6: somebody convinced him to go away and won't give him 106 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 6: a phone. 107 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 4: I don't know. 108 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, Seth. Is it correct that. 109 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: Your PI that you had to hire, which is a 110 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: whole other can of worms, spoke to the person that 111 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: took the photo. 112 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,239 Speaker 4: No, my other PI, Chloe, she's the one that spoke 113 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 4: with him. 114 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't hear you what. 115 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 4: The other PI on the case. She's the one that 116 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 4: spoke with them. 117 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: So a PI on the case did speak with the photographer, Chris? 118 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: And what did the PI learn. 119 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 4: When she took the picture. 120 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 6: And why she didn't call ninety one one immediately and 121 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 6: what she did when she reviewed the picture, and the 122 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 6: fact that she asked why she put it on social media, 123 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 6: and it was because she stated that it was because 124 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 6: TBI didn't get back with her after she had submitted it. 125 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: What else did you learn? 126 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: Why did she decide to take the picture, and what 127 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: else could she tell you through the PI about. 128 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: Who this boy it was? 129 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 6: With? 130 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 4: Nothing? 131 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: What was he doing? Was he crying? Did he look hungry? 132 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: Was he with a man or a woman? 133 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 6: The individual that took the picture was actually her husband 134 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 6: that took the picture and see what was faster with 135 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 6: this his phone that she was and they were driving 136 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 6: by and he took the picture. And then when they 137 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 6: were able to look at it and they submitted it 138 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 6: to TBI, they didn't hear back from TBI that they 139 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 6: had received the picture or anything else, so they put 140 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 6: it out on social media. 141 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: Guys the photo were talking about to Lauren Colin joining us. 142 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: Lauren, exactly where is this rest stop or tourist attraction? 143 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 7: So it's in North Carolina. It is a blue the 144 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 7: Blue Ridge Mountains Visitor Center. 145 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 5: And like Seth said, Sebastian did not appear to be 146 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: in this photo. And I think all of us are 147 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 5: are very hopeful, and I I think it's amazing that 148 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 5: Seth went to North Carolina and drove five hours from Tennessee. 149 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: Back to Seth. Did the man or the woman see 150 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: who the boy was with. 151 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 4: No, they said they didn't even know if they were 152 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 4: with the group or not. They didn't know if the 153 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 4: lady was. 154 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 2: With a what lady, the lady in the pink shirt? Yeah, 155 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: did he emerge from a car? 156 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 6: They just saw him as they drove through the under 157 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 6: where they're at right now was like a the parking 158 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 6: lot is behind there. Right in front of there is 159 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 6: the entrance into the gift shop. Yeah, so him being there, 160 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 6: there was no there's no way to see. 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 4: If he was getting in or out of a car 162 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 4: right there. 163 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: So he was on his way into the gift shop. 164 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 4: Seth, that's the direction that he's heading. 165 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: Well, that seems to me that there should be gift 166 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: shop surveillance video or at least other witnesses. So is 167 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: that the surveillance video you were trying to get, Seth? Yes, 168 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: now we know that a statement has been issued that quote, 169 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: nothing credible is pointing to any sign of Sebastian. 170 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: That's pretty vague. 171 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: Nothing credible is pointing to any sign of Sebastian. That's 172 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 2: incredibly vague. It doesn't say this picture is a hoax, 173 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: this picture is a fake, this is not Sebastian. They're 174 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: not saying any of that. What do you make of 175 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: that response, Seth. 176 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 4: That they don't know what to say? 177 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Joining me guys. 178 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: Also is IRV Brandt, renowned investigator, former US Marshall Service 179 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 2: International Investigation is Branch and author a flying solo Top 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 2: of the World on Amazon or thank you so much 181 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: for being with us. 182 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: Now, this is a conundrum. 183 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: If this boy is Sebastian the way his father thinks 184 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 2: that it is, I mean. 185 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: Look at it, for Pete's sake. 186 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 2: Look at the side by side, the. 187 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: Chin, the jawline, the nose, the hair. It's oh, it's uncanny. 188 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: It's at a tourist gift shop in the middle of 189 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: the Blue Ridge Mountains. It's Aniela in a haystack or Brant. 190 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 1: What do we do, Nancy? 191 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 8: The video the picture the way I see it, And 192 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 8: if the father says that's his son, that's good enough 193 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 8: for me, of course. But the investigation is going to 194 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 8: center around trying to get anyone that was there at 195 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 8: that time, maybe looking at video of the parking lot, 196 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 8: running down tag numbers, trying to find other witnesses, other 197 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 8: people that may have been shooting video and inadvertently captured 198 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 8: his image on their video. I can imagine that the 199 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 8: police are, you know, the investigators in this case for 200 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 8: multiple agencies, are just searching all different kinds of avenues 201 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 8: looking for clues. And when they make a comment like 202 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 8: no credible evidence so far, it's basically like saying no 203 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 8: comment on the investigation. They don't want to say either way. 204 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 8: But I would imagine that this is a crucial piece 205 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,679 Speaker 8: of information to their investigation. 206 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: Well to me, and of course I'm just a trial lawyer. 207 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: The first thing I would do is pull that Survella's 208 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: video the way Seth Rogers described, and I would go 209 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 2: in and look for every single receipt at the time 210 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: that picture was taken, and the photographer gives us the 211 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: time and the date that it was taken, every single receipt. 212 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 2: Then I would find out if there's any Survelli's video 213 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: in the parking lot, to find out if he went 214 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: to a car, which obviously he did. What car it's 215 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 2: got to be on surveillance's video. Agreed, disagree or rant? 216 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: I mean, you're the former US Marshall going all the 217 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: way around the world finding people. 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: What do you do next, Nancy, I agree. 219 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 8: I mean the car is the most critical thing. If 220 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 8: you can identify the car that he got out of, 221 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 8: even if you don't have a tag number, the making 222 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 8: the model of the car would be just crucial to 223 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 8: send out a bolo to the surrounding states. Then potentially 224 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 8: finding witnesses at that time, like you said, checking receipts 225 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 8: in the gift shop and interviewing people that were there 226 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 8: at the time. You know, something that they may have 227 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 8: seen an autistic boy may stick out in their memory, 228 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 8: you know, seeing him. 229 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 9: And they may have, you know, looked at that person, 230 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 9: at that boy, at the people that he was with, 231 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 9: and a skilled investigator asked the right questions to these 232 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 9: people that can lead to crucial, crucial leads. 233 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 8: In this case, I. 234 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: Still say it's a nail in a haystack, but a 235 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 2: needle can be found in a haystack. Seth Rogers with 236 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: us Sebastian's dad. Seth, when you look at these chief 237 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 2: photos side by side, I was looking at the nose, 238 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: the chin, the jawline, the demeanor, the hair, what looks similar. 239 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 4: To you all the above? No, I mean the way 240 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 4: his hair that comes over. 241 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you mean by that? 242 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 4: Everything on there? 243 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: Just what do you mean. 244 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: By that his hair? Because his hair goes in the 245 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: same direction. My son has a cow lick and a 246 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: certain spot on his head, and no matter what happens, 247 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: his hair tries to part in the middle. Since he 248 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 2: was born, he was born with no hair. But you 249 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: could see kind of like a little part in the 250 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: foot and it's been that way forever. And I'm looking 251 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: at the way this boy's hair is going over toward. 252 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the same as Sebastian's. 253 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 4: It just it looks like my son. 254 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 2: Easy. 255 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 10: Jackie Howard here, the local sheriff, says, the boy in 256 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 10: the photo is not Sebastian. 257 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 2: Seth one more time, do you believe this photo captured 258 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: of the Bluedish mountains is Sebastian? I do straight out 259 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 2: to Tony Mathis, who is helping Seth Rogers in this 260 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 2: very very difficult time of need. Tony question, you've heard 261 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 2: the response of l E. Law enforcement quote, nothing credible 262 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,239 Speaker 2: is pointing to a sign, any sign of Sebastian. 263 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 264 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 11: Well, I'll tell you what it means to me. It 265 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 11: means that it's a plausible deniability statement. It gives them 266 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 11: an out do indeed find it to be him. It's 267 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 11: just a very vague statement. You know, there's a lot 268 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 11: of ways to deliver that information that would get people 269 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 11: to believe that yes it's him or no it's not him. 270 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 11: And I don't think that that delivery did anything to 271 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 11: assure people one way or the other. 272 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 12: One Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Seth, did you say 273 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 12: you have or have not? 274 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 2: Would would not take a polygraph? I would wonderful if 275 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: I set. 276 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: One up for you. Will you take the polygraph? 277 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 4: Yes? 278 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: M We all remember that moment when I. 279 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: Put Sebastian's father, Seth on the hot seat on national 280 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: TV and asked him would he be willing to take 281 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: a polygraph? He said yes, he did take a straight 282 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: back out to Seth Rogers. 283 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: Joining us is Sebastian's. 284 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 2: Father, and now joining us is a renowned polligrapher, Kendall Shule, 285 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: former head of the entire FBI polygraph program in DC. 286 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: Former special agent with the FBI in DC. He is 287 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 2: at Kendall Investigations. Also joining US, Tony Mathis who is 288 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: helping Seth Rogers as he walks this very very rocky path. 289 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: First of all, let me just get this out of 290 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 2: the way. This is a yes. 291 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: No Kendall Shule. 292 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 2: Did Seth Rogers pass his polygraph? 293 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 13: Yes he did. 294 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: Okay, Seth Rogers, tell. 295 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: Me about going and taking the polygraph. We want to 296 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: hear every single word because I've got a stack of 297 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 2: a nasty online posts about you failing, about you not going, 298 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, a lot of trolls chiming in. Let's 299 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: get to the truth of that polygraph, Seth. 300 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: What happened? 301 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 6: I showed up early for the polygraph. Mister Kendall contacted 302 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 6: me and told me that he'd be there well before 303 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 6: the time that we had stated. So I showed up 304 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 6: and I sat in the chair and let him attack 305 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 6: those things to me and took the polygraph. 306 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: Have you ever had a polygraph before? 307 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 4: No, ma'am. 308 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: And what kind of questions did the politicper Kendall Shule 309 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: ask you? 310 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 6: If I had ever wanted to harm anybody, if I 311 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 6: ever wanted to hurt my son, if I had ever 312 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 6: hurt my son, if I had ever had anything to 313 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 6: do with his disappearance. 314 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: Question you said, they hooked you up what do you 315 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: mean by that? 316 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: Seth Rogers put. 317 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 4: Things on my hands, They wrapped chords around me. 318 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 6: They had a blood crept pleasure cup on me to 319 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 6: measure my blood pressure and measure my heart raid, my 320 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 6: breathing raid, things like that. 321 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: How long did it take? 322 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 4: It took a minute. 323 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: It took sixty seconds. Could you be precise or more precise? 324 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: How long do you think it took? 325 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 4: We were there for three hours, four hours. 326 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: That's about right. 327 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: It's not easy, okay, sent tight Seth, and again thank 328 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: you for being with us out to Kendall Shule, as 329 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: I told you, former head of the entire FBI polygraph 330 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 2: program in DC, Kendall, thank you. When we put out 331 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 2: the word that Seth Rogers would take a polygraph, we 332 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: contacted you because of your reputation. 333 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: You quickly agreed, and I thank you for that. 334 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 2: Again, this was not free. He was paid to do 335 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 2: the polygraph. He owes nothing to anybody, and therefore was 336 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 2: not swayed one way or the other. He had never 337 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 2: met Seth Rogers before in his life. Mister Schule, I've 338 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 2: looked very carefully at your polygraph report right here. 339 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: Number one. 340 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 2: You start off by saying it was conducted using a 341 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 2: comparison question format that meets US government standards. What is 342 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 2: a comparison question format? 343 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: What is that? 344 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 13: It's a format that's well accepted by the polygraph community, 345 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 13: particularly the American Polygraph Association. There are certain formats that 346 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 13: we can use that are more acceptable, that we know 347 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 13: are more reliable, and this was one of those. Certainly 348 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 13: a test format that I would want to use to 349 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 13: make sure we're doing everything right to get the correct results. 350 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 13: So this is, again a a format of polygraph that 351 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 13: is widely accepted as a standard in the FBI world, 352 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 13: in the polygraph world in general. 353 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: Now you also state that you used state of the 354 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: art Lafayette LX six, the computerized polygraph system. And I'm wondering, 355 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 2: is that, for instance, when you get on an elevator 356 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 2: and you see the last time it was inspected and 357 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: you see the type of elevator it is, or you 358 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: take a mammogram and you see the last time it 359 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 2: was inspected and the type of equipment machine that's being used. 360 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 2: So you say, the polygraph charts will evaluate. Excuse me, 361 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 2: the data was collected using state of the art Lafayette 362 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: LX six computerized polygraph system. What is that? And please 363 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: dummy down for me. I'm just a trial lawyer. 364 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 13: There are several companies that make polygraph equipment. The one 365 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 13: that the FP I use is the one that I've 366 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 13: always used, The one that I believe is the best 367 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 13: is a Lafiette system. There are different versions of that 368 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 13: polygraph equartment. Obviously is always has additions and corrections and 369 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 13: made to it. And I started out with an LEX 370 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,360 Speaker 13: four I believe it was, went to A five, and 371 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 13: then the latest state of the art equipment that lafiat 372 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 13: currently makes is the LX six. 373 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 4: And of course we keep up with. 374 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 13: The proper software that's required as well. But that is 375 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 13: the state of art. That's the best polygraph instrument I 376 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 13: believe that is out there in a polygraph world. 377 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Well, you had me at the FBI uses it is that? 378 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: What you said, This is what the FBI uses. 379 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 13: I did. 380 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Yes, mate, Okay, if it's good enough for them, it's 381 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: good enough for me. 382 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: Also, what I'm getting to the end of my technical questions, 383 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: I like to lay a foundation before I get into 384 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 2: the meat of the issue. The polygraph charts were evaluated 385 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 2: in numerically and globally. 386 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 13: What does that mean, it means when we look at 387 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 13: it globally to see if we see any issues with 388 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 13: the collection of the of the charts, the physiology that's collected, 389 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 13: we kind of get an idea. But then numerically means 390 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 13: that we actually give a number to each relevant question 391 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 13: that's asked, and we give it a plus or a minus. 392 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 13: And there are certain scores that we believe have to 393 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 13: be obtained in order to either pass or fail somebody 394 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 13: or call them you know, no opinion. But in addition 395 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 13: to that numerical score that I gave, there are also 396 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 13: two scoring algorithms that we use that the computer has 397 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 13: that scores the charts. You know that way. 398 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: Kendall Schuele. 399 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: When you start talking about algorithms, you've lost me. I said, 400 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: dummy down. You also said this opinion is applicable only 401 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 2: of these questions, not to be construed as an assessment 402 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: of Seth Rogers truthfulness in other areas. 403 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: That makes sense. 404 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: You also state there are three outcomes, one deception indicated, 405 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: two no opinion, and the other is no deception indicated. 406 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: Correct three choices, right, that's correct. 407 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:26,119 Speaker 13: That's correct. 408 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Now could you tell me what was Seth Rogers's 409 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: demeanor when he entered your office. 410 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 13: We had a great conversation. Like you said, it took 411 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 13: a long time. We sat and talked for a long time. 412 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 13: I collected some background information from him to make sure 413 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 13: that he's suitable for testing. 414 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 4: In my opinion, he was. 415 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, wait a minute, boss, suitable for testing. 416 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: You mean he's not drunk or high? 417 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: Right? Is that what that means exactly? 418 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 2: You know, did you do the smell test. I've always 419 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: wondered if polygraphers, like whenever my twins have to go 420 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 2: somewhere on a bus or a school event, or even 421 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 2: a plane, I always go up and speak to the 422 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 2: driver the pilot to just get. 423 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: A with if they've been drinking. 424 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: So you assess the participant as to whether they may 425 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 2: be drunk or high or on meds. 426 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 13: We do. We observe that obviously, and you know, we're 427 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 13: in close proximity and talk to each other. If he 428 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 13: had any alcohol breath, I believe I would have known it, 429 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 13: particularly when I'm attached to the components to him for 430 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 13: the polygraph test. I'm right in his face, So yes, 431 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 13: I would have observed if he had any alcoholic breath. 432 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 2: His demeanor you say seems relaxed. Did it remain relaxed 433 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: throughout the polygraph? 434 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 12: It? 435 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 13: Did see really relaxed? 436 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: Mister Schule, you conducted the polygraph? 437 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: And what were the critical questions that you asked Seth 438 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: Rogers Sebastian's father. 439 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 13: The relevant questions as we call them, that I asked 440 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 13: Seth on the polograph test the determined if he was 441 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 13: involved in any way in this child's disappearance. 442 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 4: Were number one. 443 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 13: Regarding doing anything to cause the disappearance of Sebastian Rogers. 444 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 13: Do you plan to answer those questions truthfully? He responded, yes, 445 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 13: I didn't ask him. Did you do anything that could 446 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 13: have caused that boy's disappearance who we discussed today? The 447 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 13: answer was no. And the third question was were you 448 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 13: involved in any way in the disappearance of that boy 449 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 13: who we discussed today? He responded no. 450 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 2: Guys, you are hearing the former head of the FBI 451 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: polygraph program, Kendall Schule, who polygraphed Sebastian Rodgers' biological father. 452 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: Seth. 453 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 2: Now, before you ask these three questions, do you plan 454 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 2: to answer truthfully? Did you do anything that caused Sebastian's disappearance. 455 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: Were you involved in any way in the disappearance of Sebastian? 456 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: Before you ask those I assume you ask several lead 457 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 2: up questions to get a barometer of how the polygraph 458 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: would respond to Seth Rogers. 459 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: Correct. 460 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 13: No, we're what we call control questions. You know there 461 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 13: might be are we in the state of Tennessee? Is 462 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 13: today Wednesday? Those sort of things, and those are the 463 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 13: control questions that we get from where we know he's 464 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 13: telling the truth. 465 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: With us is Seth Rogers, Sebastian's biological father. Also with 466 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: us is the polygrapher who took the polygraph, Kendall Schule, 467 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,160 Speaker 2: and Tony mathis who is helping Seth weave his way 468 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,680 Speaker 2: through this very difficult time in his life. And mister Schul, 469 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: let me ask you one more question. Isn't it true 470 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 2: that you attempted a polygraph on Seth Rogers before this polygraph? 471 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 13: I believe we try to step one up and it didn't. 472 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 4: It didn't. It didn't go through for some reason. 473 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: Kendall Schule, again, did you find Seth Rogers to be cooperative? 474 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 13: I found Seth to be extremely cooperative. He did everything 475 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 13: I asked him to do. There are absolutely no problems 476 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 13: with the interview that we had, as well as attaching 477 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 13: the components and getting good physiology to show that he 478 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 13: showed no signs of deception on this polygraph. I did 479 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 13: a numerical scoring, as we talked about before the show 480 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 13: that he passed. I also ran two algorithms through the 481 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 13: computer that showed that he passed. I even want to 482 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 13: step further when I got home and have another retired 483 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 13: FBI agent that I knew, come in and do what 484 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 13: we call a blind scoring of these charts, not knowing 485 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 13: whether who it was, what it was about, whether he passed, 486 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 13: whether he failed, and he also agreed with my opinion 487 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 13: of no exception indicated. 488 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 2: Back to Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's dad. Isn't it true, 489 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 2: Seth that you try to take the polygraph a time 490 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 2: before this one and it didn't work. 491 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: What happened? 492 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 4: I was on prescribed medication for nerve. 493 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 6: I've got I've got a pinch nerve in my C 494 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 6: five and sea sticks that cause me pain down my 495 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 6: right arm. So they put me on prescribe medication for 496 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 6: dealing with the pain and trying to. 497 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: Get it to relax. 498 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: What mad was that it. 499 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 4: Was cycled benzaprene, which is a muscle relaxer, and GABA pinion, 500 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 4: Gaba penton, which is a nerve blocker. 501 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 2: Seth, you have been the subject of so much hate online. 502 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I've got a stack. 503 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: Of printouts of what people have put on instant Twitter 504 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: and Facebook and blah blah. For instance, this one says, 505 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 2: we had a meeting this evening. One of the moms, 506 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 2: her daughter is an intern and works with Nancy Grace. 507 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: She said, a rumor is that Seth failed the polygraph 508 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: total fail, and now Nancy's team is doing damage control. 509 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 2: Nancy was cussing because she was in a quote pissy 510 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: mad mood. She told them polygraphs are not reliable and 511 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 2: so we have to be fair and say it's inconclusive. 512 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: Nancy's team was mad. 513 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: They don't like him because he was rude not long ago, 514 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: and they refused to cover for him. That this doesn't 515 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: a we don't have an intern, but this doesn't even 516 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: make any sense. We knew all along from the beginning 517 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: that Kendall tried the polly that you were on the 518 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: muscle relaxers and you volunteer to do it again. 519 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: All of this is true. 520 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: This is just one of hundreds of people attacking you. 521 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: Why seth Why why. 522 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 4: Do people get death threats for looking for their kid? 523 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 524 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 10: Over two months into the search for Sebastian Rogers, a 525 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 10: hope before a lead comes out of the town of Goodletsville, Tennessee. 526 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 10: Could a pair of pants found about twelve miles north 527 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 10: of Nashville be related to Sebastian Rogers. It hasn't been 528 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 10: disclosed where the pants were found. 529 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: In the last hour's mysterious update in the search for 530 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: a missing autistic boy, Sebastian Rogers, after a woman shares 531 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: a photo of a boy that is cannily similar to 532 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 2: Sebastian all the way up in. 533 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: The Smoky Mountains. 534 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: This as a pair of pants much like a pair 535 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: of glasses. Our taking center stage straight out to Lauren 536 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: Collin joining us an investigative journalists host at the outlier. Lauren, 537 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: thank you for gift for being with us. Lauren, tell 538 00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 2: me about the pants. 539 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 7: Yes, so may Sewi. 540 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 5: These pants were found by a volunteer that was searching, 541 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 5: and they were sweatsuit style black Allegedly what Sebastian was 542 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 5: last seen in and authorities confirmed that they are unrelated, 543 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 5: but they still said they've received as of April over 544 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 5: three hundred tips and they are investigating. 545 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:19,239 Speaker 6: All of them. 546 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: Okay, I want to get back to the pants. Did 547 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: you say they were black sweatpants. 548 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 7: Black and sweatsuit style. 549 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: Sweatsuit style color black? 550 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 7: Yes? 551 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: Okay? Where were they found, Lauren Conlin. 552 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 5: So it has not been disclosed exactly where, but Goodletsville. 553 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 7: It's twelve miles from Nashville. 554 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 5: It's part of Sumner County and Davidson County, Tennessee, depending 555 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 5: which side you're on, so it's kind of nearby Sebastian's home. 556 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 2: Back to Seth Rogers, this is Sebastian's father. You can 557 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 2: find him online at hashtag Sebastian Strong. There is a 558 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: gofummy to support him in his efforts. 559 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: He's had to hire a. 560 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: Private investigator and he go hours and hours and hours 561 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 2: day after day after day searching for his son. He 562 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 2: most recently returned from that rest stop we showed you 563 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 2: where there was an alleged sighting of Sebastian. That's GoFundMe 564 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 2: finding Sebastian Rogers family support. Seth what if anything have 565 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 2: you been told about that pair of black sweatpants that 566 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 2: they are. 567 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 4: Not related to the to my son? 568 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 1: Do you know where they were found? 569 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 4: I know that they were found out a particular. 570 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,479 Speaker 1: Park, a park a park. Do you know if they 571 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:35,719 Speaker 1: were the right size? 572 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 4: No? 573 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: Who told you the information about the pants? 574 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 6: I received a text message from them, the law enforcement? 575 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 4: Yeah? 576 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: Okay. 577 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: Question do you know what condition they were in or 578 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 2: if any DNA analysis was done for touch, DNA, hair 579 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 2: fiber or anything that relates back to Sebastian? 580 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: How did they suddenly decide, Oh, yeah, these aren't his? 581 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 4: He said that the size was wrong. 582 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: Ah, the size was wrong. 583 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: What wasn't he last saying wearing black sweatpants as we 584 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 2: were told by the Proudfoots. 585 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: Correct, Seth. When you learned. 586 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: That sweatpants had been found but were ruled out according 587 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 2: to law enforcement? How did that make you feel? What 588 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 2: did that do to your will to keep searching? 589 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 4: And they said they didn't that those didn't belong to him. 590 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 4: They just reinforced that North Carolina and when. 591 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 14: Sun was there, Sebastian Rogers goes missing. Mother Katy Proudfoot 592 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 14: leaves the family home to be with her husband and 593 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 14: their travel trailer while he goes back to work around 594 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 14: the Memphis area, while Sebastian's father, Seth Rogers, and an 595 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 14: army of volunteers continue to look for Sebastian. Katy Proudfoot 596 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 14: says she is concerned about leaving, but defends the decision 597 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,239 Speaker 14: to leave by saying her son could be anywhere and 598 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 14: they are looking everywhere. Katie Proudfoot doesn't know when she 599 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 14: will return to her home. 600 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 3: Katie Proudfoot has reportedly not gone back to work. We 601 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 3: reached down to the Proudfoots asking if they would share 602 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 3: their current location. The Proudfoot's saying for safety reasons, they 603 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 3: are keeping their location private. 604 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 2: Joining us an All Star panel. Tony Mathis is joining 605 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 2: us along with Sebastian's father, Seth Rogers. Tony Mathis, what 606 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 2: do you make of the Proudfoots leaving the area and 607 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 2: not taking part in any searches. 608 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 11: Nancy, We really don't want to get into commenting about 609 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 11: the Proudfoots at this time, but I will tell you 610 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 11: that I spoke to Chris and Katie early on, and 611 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 11: I do know that Katie was getting a lot of threats, 612 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 11: so it was deemed to be better for her safety 613 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 11: to go with Chris and go back to where he 614 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 11: was working. 615 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 15: So outside of that, really want to get into comment 616 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 15: about why they did what they did to. 617 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 2: Seth Roger, Sebastian's dad. What do you make of the 618 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 2: Proudfits leaving the area and not taking part of any 619 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 2: searches that we know of for Sebastian. 620 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 4: People have to live with their decisions that they make. 621 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 2: It's my understanding that you are refusing to comment on 622 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: the Proudfits. 623 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 4: Not speaking about them. 624 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 1: Understood, and why I. 625 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 4: Don't have anything to say about their actions. I can 626 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 4: speak for myself, Tony. 627 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 11: We have given Chris and Katie our word, we meaning 628 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 11: Seth and I that we're going to keep the interviews 629 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 11: focused on Sebastian. 630 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 15: We're doing everything we can do to clean up a 631 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 15: lot of the mess that's been created the last two 632 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 15: months to try to refocus on simply finding Sebastian. So 633 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 15: we're simply trying to do our part there. 634 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 2: Nancy, and mister Proudfoot, you have volunteered to take a polly, Yes, ma'am. 635 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 2: If I were to set up a polly for you, 636 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: would you take it? 637 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 16: Name the place? 638 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 4: In time? 639 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 16: Ma'm I'll be there. 640 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: And you're headed back to Memphis right now? Are you 641 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: in your RV? Right now? 642 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 16: I am in my RV. We are not disclosing our 643 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 16: current location just because of safety reasons due to the YouTubers, 644 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 16: the facebookers out there that have sent some very heinous, 645 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 16: threatening information and things of that nature, threatened to be 646 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 16: outside of our house, all kinds of nasty things. 647 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 2: So Lauren Conlin question, to your knowledge, have the problemits 648 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 2: taken a polly and are they searching for Sebastian. 649 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 5: Well, Katie Proudfoot announced pretty early on that she did 650 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 5: take a polygraph and she passed. As far as Chris goes, 651 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 5: I cannot to that. There's a lot of misinformation whether 652 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 5: he took one or not, and if he did take one, 653 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 5: if you passed or not. And as far as them 654 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 5: searching for Sebastian, they claim that they are working with 655 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 5: law enforcement. So whatever that means, that's that's on them. 656 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: Two Seth Rogers joining us. 657 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 2: Sebastian's dad, Seth, how do you keep going with all 658 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,280 Speaker 2: of the hate, which I don't understand where that's coming from. 659 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 2: How do you even put one foot in front of 660 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 2: the other looking for your son? 661 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 4: He's much son. 662 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 6: You're not going to stop me from looking for the 663 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 6: world's full of hate on Tuesday, ignored and look for 664 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 6: the good. 665 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 4: In finding my son is the good. 666 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 2: If you have information or think you have information regarding 667 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 2: the whereabouts off Sebastian Rogers, please call one eight hundred 668 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 2: TB I find one eight hundred eight. 669 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: Two four three four sixty three. 670 00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 2: We stop and remember American hero Charlotte Meckelbird police officer 671 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 2: Joshua Ayer just thirty one. He was gunned down with 672 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 2: three others trying to serve a warrant in Chrlotte, North Carolina. 673 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 2: A military vet, he leaves behind his loving wife, Ashley, 674 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 2: and three year old son Andrew. American hero Officer Joshua Ayer. 675 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests, thank you to MSM, but 676 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 2: especially thank you to you for being with us tonight 677 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 2: and every night as our prayers continue for the safe 678 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 2: return of teen boy Sebastian Rogers. Nancy Gray signing off, 679 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 2: see you tomorrow night six and nine o'clock sharp Eastern 680 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 2: and until then, good night, friend.