1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little Missouri girl missing 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: five long months, just found in a sex offender's closet 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: seven hundred miles away, naked, cowering, but alive. Good evening, 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, and I want 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: Columbia, Missouri, a father receives a call from his daughter's 7 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: high school. His fifteen year old daughter never showed up 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 2: to class that morning. Calls to the team's cell go unanswered, 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: and when dad rushes home to check on her, he 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: finds the home empty, his daughter nowhere in sight. 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: A parent's worst nightmare. You go to work, you think 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: everything is fine, and then you get that call from 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: the school your daughter never showed up. Joining me an 14 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we are learning. 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: Now listen, hey, Columbia, Missouri. 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: Father gets a call from his daughter's high school that 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: she never arrived to class. The dad calls his fifteen 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 2: year old several times, and, getting no answer, rushes home 19 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: from work to check on her. He's hopeful that she 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: just overslept or missed the bus, but when he gets home, 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: the teen isn't there, and some of her belongings, including 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 2: her phone, are missing. 23 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a sign right there that her phone is missing, 24 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: probably her school backpack, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything 25 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: is wrong. She typically takes her phone and her backpack 26 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: to school every day. Did you know that over thirty 27 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: three percent of all child disappearances kidnaps occur in around 28 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: or related to getting to school. It could be at 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: the bus stop, it could be walking the route to school, 30 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: getting off the bus, walking back home, even approaching the school. 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: Like Kiren Horman, it goes on and on. Nearly half, 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: over thirty three percent of all child disappearances kidnaps stranger 33 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: related occur as it connects to getting to and from school. 34 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: So right there we see a problem joining me. Greg Morris, 35 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, criminal defense attorney out of Palm Beach, 36 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: author of the Untested. He is the partner at Moore's Legal. Greg. 37 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: Right there, that is where law enforcement starts the search. 38 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 1: First of all, law enforcement always says, oh, she'll be 39 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: back home, don't worry, she's probably out with her little boyfriend. 40 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: That's what they normally say. But then when and if 41 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: they get concerned about the missing child, then they start 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: looking at the school and the routes to school. Explain. 43 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, so police are going to start and spiral outwards. 44 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: When they're looking for a missing person. Most people are 45 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: locally found, so they're going to start think, maybe she's 46 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 3: a teenager, she went to her friend's house, didn't call 47 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: her parents. 48 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 4: Then they're going to. 49 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: Start retracing the steps she should have taken, spoken with 50 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: her friends, and things of that nature. Although this case 51 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: exemplifies why you need to start with the phone. 52 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Karen Starting joining me renowned forensic psychologist, TV radio trauma expert, 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: and you can find her at karenstart dot com. Karen 54 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: with a C. Karen, thank you for being with us. Karen. 55 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: What is it that law enforcement always at the get go, 56 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: whether it's a missing girl, a missing boy, or typically 57 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: a missing woman, they go, oh, there'll be back, they're 58 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: out with their little boyfriend or fill in the blank. 59 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: They never take it seriously at the beginning. They don't, Nancy. 60 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: They really are trying to get the parents to not 61 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 5: be upset or the people that are looking for them, 62 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 5: and for some reason they keep trying to say things like, well, 63 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 5: she's a runaway or she's with a friend, just like 64 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 5: you said, I'm really trying to quiet the fact that 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 5: these people might be getting really upset, of course and frightened. 66 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: Why is that? Todd Shipley. Todd Shipley is joining US 67 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: digital cyber crime expert, former detective sergeant with the Reno Police, 68 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: never lack of business in Reno, twenty five years in 69 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: LA and author of Surviving a Cyber Attack, also author 70 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: of Investigating Internet Crimes. Todd, thanks for being with us. 71 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: Why is it? In your twenty four years in LA 72 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: law enforcement? I'm sure you saw it over and over 73 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: and over where detectives, investigators beat cops and saying, ah, 74 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:47,479 Speaker 1: she'll be back. 75 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 6: Well, because it commonly is that way, you know, particularly 76 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 6: with runaway kids. They look at it that it's somebody 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 6: that walked off through a girlfriend's house or went someplace 78 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 6: with a boyfriend, and they'll show up within you know, 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 6: hours or days and it won't be a kid depping. 80 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 6: It's hard, at least initially to figure that out. 81 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Straight out to Gg McKelvey joining me, journalist, host of 82 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: Pretty Lies and Alibi's podcast, Gg, thank you for being 83 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: with us. Another factor into why in this jurisdiction police 84 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: may not have taken her disappearance seriously. At the beginning 85 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: is because this neck of the woods, Columbia, Missouri is 86 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: the safest place, the safest urban area in Missouri in 87 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: which to live well. 88 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 7: Columbia, Missouri has one of the lowest crime rates in 89 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 7: the state. It's very close to nature. We just don't 90 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 7: hear bad things like this happening in this ideal midwestern town. 91 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 7: And so I think with the comfort of living in 92 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 7: a place like that, you don't necessarily think the worst 93 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 7: is going to happen right there in your hometown. 94 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you're right, Gg McKelvey. It's got a 95 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: pretty low, pretty low popular one hundred and thirty thousand. 96 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: It is close to nature. That's what it's known for, 97 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: the Missouri River. Not only that, it's got this extensive 98 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: trail going through the city, very low crime rate. So 99 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: Greg Morris, I don't totally well, I do blame the police, 100 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: but I get where they're coming from. This type of 101 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: case is very rare for them. So when it's an 102 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: aberans then you don't you got to put on blinders, 103 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: I guess would be a way to describe what happened 104 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: at the get go, Greg, Well, that's. 105 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: What happens again. The police don't want to spend resources. 106 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: They think this is going to turn out fine. Another 107 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 3: teenager that's met or went out late with their boyfriend 108 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: or other friends. 109 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 4: They'll come home in a day or two. That's the 110 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 4: common way. 111 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: This, you know, usually turns out for people, So that 112 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 3: time is valuable. But police also know that most of 113 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: these cases are going to turn out to be a 114 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 3: teenager that comes home a day or two later. And 115 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 3: this is very similar to an issue with law enforcement. 116 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: If you recall the Cheshire murders in Connecticut. The police 117 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: were outside that home and the reason why they didn't 118 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 3: go in because it's an upscale neighborhood in Connecticut. They 119 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 3: would never expect what happened in that home and the 120 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: horrible things that the two perpetrators did to the family 121 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: to happen. 122 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 4: So they waited outside and more bad stuff happened. 123 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: It's difficult for law enforcement to know when to jump. 124 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 4: Into an investigation. 125 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: Believe there's crime that's happening, and we have to get 126 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 3: on it right away too. 127 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 4: Let's see if this situation plays out. But time is. 128 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 3: Valuable when people go missing, and that's the difficult dilemma here. 129 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: Well, you know I heard Mark Klass describe it as 130 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: sixty miles an hour. That's how quickly your child can 131 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: get away, at the least sixty miles an hour if 132 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: they're in a perpse car. So with that in mind, 133 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: the dad originally tried to soothe himself by saying, oh, 134 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: maybe she overslept, maybe she missed the bus and races home. 135 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: And that's a psychological issue. Karen start, why is it 136 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: that our minds are they trying to protect us? Don't 137 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: go to oh, my stars, she's been kidnapped by a 138 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: sex offender. She's going to die. We don't race to 139 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: that conclusion. Her mind doesn't let us go there. He 140 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: thought she overslept. 141 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 5: Well, because it's such a horrible conclusion to come to, Nancy, 142 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 5: I feel like people protect themselves. Actually, when it comes 143 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 5: to something like that, you just don't want to believe, 144 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 5: think about it, that something can happen to you, it 145 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 5: happens to other people, until in fact it does happen 146 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 5: to you. So it's really a good psychological defense. 147 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: The dad comes home realizes that his little girl has 148 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: not overslept, she hasn't missed the bus, Her cell phone 149 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: and backpack are gone. He doesn't buy into she's just 150 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: off for the little frint and reports her missing immediately. 151 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 8: The Columbia, Missouri teen girl is immediately reported missing. Searches 152 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 8: of the area turn up nothing, and her phone is 153 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 8: not ping since the day of her disappearance. Investigators turned 154 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 8: to interviewing her friends. Fellow students say the fifteen year 155 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 8: old may have been talking to someone online. 156 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Okay, that is significant that her phone has not pinged 157 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: since the day she disappeared. Okay, straight back out to 158 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: Todd Shipley cybercrime expert, explain, what does that mean that 159 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: your phone doesn't ping? 160 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 6: Well, it means that the phone was turned off and 161 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 6: was not registering on a cell site someplace within the 162 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 6: city that she would normally be near. So they were 163 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 6: able to query those sites and find out that her 164 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 6: cell phone wasn't registering on any location nearby the house, 165 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 6: the school, wherever she normally was, and they couldn't find her. 166 00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: Explain what is a ping? Ba specific Todds. 167 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 6: The ping is an electronic message from your phone to 168 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 6: a cell tower to let it know that it's in 169 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 6: the area so that it can receive information from the system. 170 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 6: So you have to announce that you're in a location 171 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 6: so that the data can be sent to your specific phone, 172 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 6: and that ping allows the cell tower to say, oh, 173 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 6: you're in this area, and I can send messages, phone calls, 174 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 6: whatever to you know, the Internet to your phone and 175 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 6: be able to identify where you're at. And so none 176 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 6: of that was there because the phone was turned off. 177 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: So can I put it in regular people talk? Todd Shipley, 178 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: And this comes up so often in trials. Typically it's 179 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: defense attorneys like you, Greg Morris, arguing that pings don't 180 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: mean anything and we cannot rely on pings. But what 181 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: pings are and I think we're going to see that, 182 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: by the way, and the upcoming Brian Coberger trial a 183 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: lot of digital and phone evidence, the evidence and the 184 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: lack there of evidence such as him cutting off his phone, 185 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: turning it off just before the murders, and then turning 186 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: it back on just after the murders. So there's a 187 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: lack of digital evidence at the time of the murders 188 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: in this particular window. But Greg Morris, the defense attorneys 189 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: like you who've won a lot of cases, have made 190 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: it part of their repertoire to argue pings can't be 191 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: relied upon. But it's really elementary. It's rudimentary. You turn 192 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: your cell phone on and you get in the car too. 193 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: Let's just pretend go to your son's soccer game, and 194 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: as you pass cell towers, the signal emitted from your 195 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: phone pings off or registers with those horribly ugly cell 196 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: towers we pass. Some are decorated to look like a tree, 197 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: a tree with really weird leaves, but the horrible ugly 198 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: cell towers. Every time you pass one, your phone will 199 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: connect with that cell tower. It's really not hard to understand. 200 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: Yet somehow defense attorneys like you managed to obfuscate the 201 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: simple truth. How do you do that? Morse? 202 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: Well, because cell site location information and these pings you're 203 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: talking about sure to see if a person's in a 204 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 3: general area, is their phone on? Are they moving somewhere? 205 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: But why why do you make it soell so mysterious, 206 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: nors But it doesn't these pings you're talking about like 207 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: it's mystical, magical, it's not so. 208 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: The cell site tower from AT and T down the 209 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 3: street from my house on the inner coastal was out, 210 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: so my cell phone had to ping off of a 211 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: different tower located further away from me. 212 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 4: Once that tower was out. 213 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 3: So let's suppose a progress so far's again how far 214 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 3: that's my point. 215 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: How far away was the other cell tower? 216 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 4: It's still you're not getting location far away? 217 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: Was it two miles? A mile? 218 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: I don't know exactly how far away it is, but 219 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 3: it checked it from my local Where you would I. 220 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: Lie because that would ruin your argument if you said 221 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: it was only one mile further. 222 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 4: And if it was a mile, isn't a mile a 223 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 4: big difference? 224 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: Well that's how they do it. So what's suppose you 225 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: mess your head up if you're on the jury. 226 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 4: Let's suppose there's a crime on First Street in New York, 227 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 4: But actually. 228 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 3: I was on twentieth Street, but my phone pinged off 229 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 3: the First Street tower. So now the police believe I 230 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: was in the area of the murder even though I 231 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 3: wasn't because cell site location information was misleading. 232 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: Let me counter your argument with one word, triangulation. Have 233 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: you heard that word? Okay, Shipley, don't go to deathcom 234 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: for explain what triangulation means to totally destroy Morse's argument. 235 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 6: The problem is he's mixing up the two things, the communication, 236 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 6: the ping itself saying I'm here in your geolocation of 237 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 6: where that phone is at or two very different things. 238 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,239 Speaker 6: And yes, it is very difficult to figure out exactly 239 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 6: precisely where a person is through these pings, but that geolocation, 240 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 6: that triangulation, we can narrow down a physical location where 241 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 6: somebody is because talking to two cell towers is just 242 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 6: simple math, and you have to figure out where it 243 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 6: was and what angle it is because the towers, which 244 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 6: most people don't know, have faces on them, and so 245 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 6: which face of that cell tower did the ping come 246 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 6: off of, So it knows a general location where it's 247 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 6: coming from. Anyway, So you put two of those together 248 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 6: and you can actually get a location or narrow it 249 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 6: down to where that person was geographically in the area. 250 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 9: If you know somebody who's missing and you get information 251 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 9: or some type of connection with them and they have 252 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 9: been off of you know, out of touch for a while, 253 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 9: make sure you call law enforcement. 254 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 255 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: A missing person's report is filed after a fifteen year 256 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 2: old Missouri teen fails to show up to school one 257 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: December morning. An intense investigation is launched, but the exhaustive 258 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 2: searches yield little to no clues about the whereabouts of 259 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: the missing teen. Her socials have gone silent and her 260 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: phone has not pinged since her disappearance. 261 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: Hold your horses, did everybody miss what we just reported? 262 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: Investigators began after they hit a dead end, interviewing her 263 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: little friends. The little friends say the teen may have 264 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: been talking to someone online. Okay, to Titania and Jordan 265 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: joining me, Chief parent officer at Bark, Parental Controls, author 266 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: of Parenting and a Tech World. Now, this is how 267 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: I found out about Bark, which led me to Titoya. 268 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: We got BARK and put it on the children's cell phones. 269 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: It picks up words like scary words like sex, I 270 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: want to see you naked, send me nudes, hurt myself? Okay, 271 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: it's so sensitive, and this is not an AD. It's 272 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: so sensitive. I got an alert. You have an alert 273 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: on your son John David's phone. Well, I nearly did 274 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: a backlip because he never does anything wrong. Knock on 275 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: wood product. So I looked it up and it said 276 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: self harm on my six foot six, two hundred and 277 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: something pounds. Soun self harm. You wouldn't expect that, right. 278 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: I looked at what it was. He's a soccer goalie 279 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: and he had made a really good dive. I saw 280 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: it happen where he's basically horizontal catching the ball and 281 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: his arm went through the net and he got a 282 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: big bruise right here. But he was so proud he 283 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: showed off the bruise, saying, I save the goal. Right. 284 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: It was so sensitive that it picked up the bruise 285 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: on his arm and alerted me the other day, you're 286 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna laugh about this part to Tanya. I 287 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: got an alert on John Dave. It's never Losey's phone, 288 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: It's always John David's phone. And I looked it up 289 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: and it said disturbing blah blah blah nature. Guess what 290 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: it was? The Nancy Gray Show crime stories about some 291 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: victim having been kidnapped and killed. And he subscribes to 292 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: our I guess YouTube, And he picked up the banner 293 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: on YouTube. Luckily he had not opened it. But still, 294 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 1: that is how sensitive Bart is. Now that aside, that's 295 00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: how I found Titania. Titania red flag waving. Listen on 296 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: this investigators speak to her little friends. They say she 297 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: may have been talking to someone online. Translation, she is 298 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: talking to someone online, someone she kept secret from her dad. 299 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: That's what that means so online secret take it on. 300 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 10: No parent thinks that this will happen to their child, 301 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 10: But when you know that rate at which predators are 302 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 10: online engaging with children, you can't not think that it 303 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 10: could be your child. You have to be prepared, You 304 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 10: have to be monitoring. You have to take easy steps 305 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 10: like don't allow connected tech in their bedrooms overnight behind 306 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 10: closed doors. If you do give your child tech, make 307 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 10: sure it's safer tech that will proactively alert you when 308 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 10: creepy older men and sex offenders are trying to engage 309 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,640 Speaker 10: with your child, which the bark phone does. 310 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: Well, here's the other thing, and again I'm not pushing Mark. 311 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: If you don't know exactly what to do, like what 312 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: do you do? Gorab their phone and run off with it. 313 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: It's a physical thing to jump on them and take 314 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: their phone away, which I have done. It's not easy, 315 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: and run away with it. Lock yourself in the bathroom 316 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: and try to scroll through their stuff. Okay, no, something 317 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: like a net nanny like bart to me, that's an 318 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: easy way to do it, so you don't have to 319 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: scroll through their phone and look for what you don't 320 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: even know what you're looking for. As a matter of fact, 321 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: this particular app, Boo Boo. It's a dating friendship app 322 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: and it allows completely anonymous trolling. You know, where you 323 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: look for a friend or a love interest. As a 324 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: matter of fact, this little girl had signed up for Boo. 325 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 11: Listen, a Columbia, Missouri girl signs up for Boo, a 326 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 11: popular dating and friendship app that matches users based on 327 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 11: common personality markers like zodiac signs, any types, and the 328 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 11: results of an in app personality quiz. When she hits 329 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 11: it off with another user, the two moved to Snapchat 330 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 11: and develop a romantic relationship through texts, pictures, videos, and 331 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 11: audio messages. After a month of chatting, the teen's online 332 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 11: bow desperately wants to meet her in person. 333 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: You know what's really interesting about the Boo at Titanya, 334 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: is it actually looks like a game. I don't know 335 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: if you remember the missus pac Man and pac Man 336 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: games video games, some of the first ones. These little 337 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: creatures look like them, like the little pac Man creatures, 338 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: And it looks like see that right there. It looks 339 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: like a little game where you quote meet new people. 340 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: It looks so inviting and so harmless, doesn't it? 341 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 9: To Tanya? 342 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 10: It sure does. I'm actually pulling up the app Store 343 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 10: now to see what it's rated, because there is no 344 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 10: governing body that mandates that people who submit their apps 345 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 10: to the App Store are accurate, right, It's up to 346 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 10: each app maker to rate. That Also a good thing 347 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 10: to know. Whether you're using Bark or Apple screen Time 348 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 10: or Google Family Link, you can get alerted to when 349 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 10: your child downloads an app, so you can go and 350 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,479 Speaker 10: look it up. Just like you wouldn't drop them off 351 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 10: at an international airport all alone. Don't let them encounter 352 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 10: everyone in the world and all the content ever created 353 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 10: online without you understanding the portal through which they're doing. 354 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: So okay, so now you're telling me, I neede an 355 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: app that tells me every time the twins download an 356 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: app on their phone. Is that what you just said. 357 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 10: If you don't have Bark, you have Bark, so we 358 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 10: will alert you when your child has downloaded a problematic app. 359 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 1: Okay, and so listen to this, Karen Stark. Okay, this 360 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: is going to make Karen Stark and Todd Shipley do 361 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: a backflip. Okay, try to stay seated. So it connects 362 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: you with friends online based on a romantic relationship based 363 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: on an in app personality quiz What sex offender can't 364 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: lie on that? Okay? Zodiac signs integram types a quiz 365 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: Zodiac signs. You know how many times we have covered 366 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: cases where a registered sex offender, or probably even worse, 367 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 1: a sex offender that's not registered so we don't even 368 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: know he's lurking, goes on to chat rooms, goes onto 369 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: apps like Boo kick Snapchat. We saw it in the 370 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: Delphi double murders of Abby and Libby, two cute little 371 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: girls in Delphi, and that was the false lead in 372 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: the case before Richard Allen was identified, where they had 373 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: been online talking to a catfish stereotypical creepy dude, but 374 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: he was posing. He had put a picture on there 375 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: of some buff young guy that kind of looked like 376 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: a tattoo list Justin Bieber, who was a real person. 377 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: He was using that person's photo to lure little girls 378 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: and get them to send naked photos or topless photos 379 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 1: of themselves, trying to hook up with them. Remember that freak. Yeah, 380 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: so you can put any picture you want online, you 381 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 1: can lie and you're zodiac quiz and get hooked up 382 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: with a little girl like this little girl zodiac quiz 383 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: my rear. 384 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 5: End, Nancy, this isn't really really and I can't emphasize 385 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 5: enough important for parents to know because an act like this, 386 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 5: and there are others, it really is a playground for 387 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,479 Speaker 5: someone who's a predator. They are in heaven because they 388 00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 5: could ask who they are, and they could start the 389 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 5: rooming process, which means that they begin to insert themselves 390 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 5: into the child's life. They act like they're a friend 391 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 5: to confident they understand everything that they're saying, and they 392 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 5: become important, especially to a child, a teenager maybe who's 393 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 5: feeling unhappy alone and needs to find a friend. 394 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: So what do you make of that? To Tanya Jordan, 395 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: the zodiac quiz that apparently united this little girl with 396 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: a registered sex offender. Here's the thing. 397 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 10: The Boo app and many other apps are rated seventeen plus. 398 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 10: It tells you right there in the app store, But 399 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 10: any child can go in and lie about the year 400 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 10: they were born and get immediate access. 401 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 1: Problem number one. 402 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 10: Problem number two, as there are no current laws to 403 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 10: hold these companies accountable. The laws meant to protect children 404 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 10: online have not been updated since nineteen ninety eight, and 405 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 10: so acts like the Kids Online Safety Act that are 406 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 10: still stalled and have by partisan support, could actually hold 407 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 10: these platforms accountable and prevent children from being harmed, whether 408 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 10: it's on Snapchat, Boo or the next thing that pops up. 409 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: And little did this Dad, A loving dad know that 410 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: about five hundred miles away, a registered sex offender was 411 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: wooing his little girl online. 412 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 2: Columbia, Missouri, a father receives a call from his daughter's 413 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 2: high school. His fifteen year old daughter never showed up 414 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: to class that morning. Calls to the team's cell go unanswered, 415 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: and when dad rushes home to check on her, he 416 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 2: finds the home empty, his daughter nowhere in sight, appearance. 417 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: Worst nightmare. You think maybe she ever slept, maybe she 418 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: ah this, that the other thing. And you get home 419 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: and find out none of that is true and your 420 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: girl is missing. At the same time, this is what 421 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: we learned. 422 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 12: In the early morning hours of December sixth, twenty twenty four, 423 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 12: the forty four year old man the Columbia teen met 424 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 12: on Boo to Missouri in a rental car and picks 425 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 12: her up. Before going anywhere, he breaks her cell phone. 426 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 12: The man then drives her eleven hours to a home 427 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 12: in Fort Collins, Colorado. To avoid detection, the man wraps 428 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 12: the teen in a blanket to carry her inside the house. 429 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 1: So many facts jumping out right there, A forty four 430 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: year old registered sex offender who meets the little girl 431 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: on the Boo Oh My Stars. Him meets a little 432 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: girl on the boo app drives all the way from 433 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: Colorado to Missouri in a rental car. So wait a minute, 434 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: right there, Greg Morse, in a rental car. He doesn't 435 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: even take his own vehicle. He has a car, So 436 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: why does he use a rental car to hide his 437 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: movements so it won'ts show up on his NAV system 438 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: or so his car won't be identified at toll stops 439 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: or by licensed grabbers? Right there, I'm forming intent as 440 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: we speak, Greg Morse. 441 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 3: Well, a rental car, you know, doesn't prove he sexually 442 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 3: battered the girl. It doesn't prove he kidnapped her. It 443 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 3: doesn't prove any of those things. People use rental cars 444 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 3: all the time. If this was a drug case, I'd say, okay, 445 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 3: it's pretty common that people use rental cars to commit 446 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 3: drug transactions. At least that's been my experience in twenty 447 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 3: five years. This is a case where a rental car 448 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 3: is just a rental car. It doesn't add any evidence 449 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 3: one way or the other to the crimes that this 450 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 3: person's charged with. 451 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 4: Not at all, of. 452 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: Course, of course, Greg Morse, you think that proves nothing 453 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: that he went to the trouble of using a rental car. 454 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: I would argue to a jury to hide evidence of 455 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: his whereabouts. But it's early reminiscent of the case of 456 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: a young girl, Sophia Martin Franklin, who was let me 457 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: just say, romancing a much older man like this guy. 458 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 1: In her case, the guy's forty nearly forty one years old. 459 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: Take a listen. 460 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 8: Sophia makes a new online friend as she finishes up 461 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 8: her sophomore year. Sophia's friend pushes her to meet in person, 462 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 8: but there's two big problems. He lives in Arkansas and 463 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 8: he's a forty year old man. 464 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 11: Gary Day is four years into a six year probation 465 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 11: sentence and is used to surprise visits from his probation officer. 466 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 11: But in December, the forty year old seems extremely nervous 467 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 11: when the officer stops by, the supervisor also catches a 468 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 11: glimpse of a woman running out the back door. She 469 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 11: is just sixteen years old and from Wisconsin. Sophia's sister 470 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 11: spots days buick idling a block down the street while 471 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 11: she calls police. A family member goes to check on 472 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 11: Sophia and finds her room empty. The Franklins immediately report 473 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 11: Sophia missing. 474 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: So this young girl pregnant with a forty year old 475 00:28:53,040 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: sex offenders child, he drives multi states from Arkansas to 476 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: Wisconsin to abduct her. I mean, GG McKelvey, you and 477 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: I investigated this case together. GG, journalist host of Pretty 478 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: Lies and Alibis, which shows sex offenders registered or not, 479 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: will go to great, great links to get their target. GG. 480 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 7: Absolutely, there's nothing that will stand in anybody's way when 481 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 7: they have their site set on somebody basy as vulnerable 482 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 7: and somebody they can manipulate and convince them to come 483 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 7: with them. It's happening almost every single day. I mean, 484 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 7: at this point, I'm ready to get my kid a 485 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 7: flip phone and not even let her get online in 486 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 7: the big bad online apps like do that are not 487 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 7: monitoring sex offenders. And at the same rate, do we 488 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 7: need to change the way we monitor sex offenders from 489 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 7: a law enforcement perspective. To monitor Internet, you should it 490 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 7: be mandatory every single convicted sex offender has their Internet monitored. 491 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 7: Do we have the manpower? If not, we need to 492 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 7: get it because our kids are getting hurt, they're getting killed, 493 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 7: They're being traumatized for life by these men who have 494 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 7: their site set on these kids, who, for the most part, 495 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 7: in some way are very vulnerable and too trusting. 496 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: You know, Tad Shipley gg McKelvey just says something really interesting. 497 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: I guarantee you that the computer activity, the online activity 498 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: of registered sex offenders is not monitored, but it would 499 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: not require a fleet of human bodies doing it. It 500 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: could be something like a net nanny, like a bark 501 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: for sex offenders. Every time their phone pops up with 502 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: an undesirable word like send nudes anything of that nature, 503 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: and alert would go off. But you know, now that 504 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, Shipley, we can't even keep up 505 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: with registered sex offenders and where they live, much less 506 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: was happening on their cell phones. But isn't that kind 507 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: of an idea. 508 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 6: Well, yeah, certainly it is. But I mean keeping in 509 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 6: you know, the back of your mind that we have 510 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 6: to know where they're at, We have to have to 511 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 6: know what devices they have. We have to have a 512 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 6: court order to be able to do that because it 513 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 6: depends on the probation or the No. 514 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: You don't need a court order. It could be a 515 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: stipulation of their. 516 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 6: Station, of course, but you still have to have that 517 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 6: in place. I mean, my writing partner in my last 518 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 6: books was a probation officer, and that was always the 519 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 6: frustration at the pible level that they had was how 520 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 6: they monitored these people, and it wasn't consistent across the country. 521 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 6: One area did it very well, one area didn't do 522 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 6: it at all. And that becomes the problem, and that 523 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 6: these guys figure that out, and they work through these 524 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 6: loopholes and figure out what they can and can't do. 525 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 6: Because I can go down to Walgreens and buy a phone, 526 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 6: I don't need, you know, if I give you the 527 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 6: phone that I've got the monitor, they. 528 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: Just have to go get a burner phone. You're exactly 529 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: right to Shipley. It's like stomping out a roach. You 530 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: get one, there's fifty more hiding behind your potted plant. 531 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: Karen start the compulsion of sex offenders that attack children. 532 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: Most of us don't understand it. It took me a 533 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: long time prosecuting them to get it through my head. 534 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm never going to understand and stop trying to understand. 535 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: You don't have to understand their motivation to prove the case, 536 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: but out of curiosity. This compulsion is so strong they 537 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,719 Speaker 1: will drive across the country to get to their target victim. 538 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,479 Speaker 5: That's the truth, and they will take incredible risks, Nancy, 539 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 5: when it comes to law enforcement, just to be able 540 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 5: to fulfill their desires. You have to understand that these people, 541 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 5: they see children as objects that they can control. They 542 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 5: find all kinds of excuses. Sometimes they even say that, 543 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 5: for instance, the teenager was a true to them. Because 544 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 5: they need to fulfill their fantasy and desire to bet 545 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 5: with children or teenagers, they can't stop themselves. They will 546 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 5: do anything to be able to keep going, and they 547 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 5: escalate over time, which is important to know. 548 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: Statistics show that once the seventy two hour mark has 549 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: been reached, very often the child victim is dead, leaving 550 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: no evidence behind. Luckily, our friend and colleague Alicia kazy 551 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: Kevitch survived a scenario just like this one. 552 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 13: Between dinner and dessert, I vanished. I walked outside of 553 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 13: my house to meet somebody who I thought was my 554 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 13: friend and he kidnaped me, and he took me from Peta, Pennsylvania, 555 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 13: to Virginia and held me captive in his basement dungeons. 556 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 13: Even though it's been all these vieered, it's so very 557 00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 13: difficult to talk about. 558 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 7: You said, I'm. 559 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 13: Beginning to like you too much. Tonight, We're going to 560 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 13: go for a ride. And I knew that was clearly 561 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,959 Speaker 13: a threat. And what I had been doing to try 562 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 13: to humanize myself was working too well, and he was 563 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 13: becoming attached. So he was going to have to end 564 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 13: my life sooner. 565 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 566 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 12: In the early morning hours of December sixth, twenty twenty four, 567 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 12: the forty four year old man the Columbia teen met 568 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 12: On Boo, drives to Missouri and picks her up. Before 569 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 12: going anywhere, he breaks her cell phone. The man then 570 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 12: drives her eleven hours to a home in Fort Collins, Colorado. 571 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 12: To avoid detection, the man wraps the teen in a 572 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 12: blanket to carry her inside the house. 573 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: Okay, red flag. There he wraps her up in a 574 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 1: blanket to take her in so his roommates don't see her. 575 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: To JJ McKelvey joining us host of Pretty Lies and 576 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: Alibi's podcast. The little girl becomes terrified because he tells 577 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: her his roommates can't know she's there. He then takes 578 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: her drivers permit and her little student id tells her 579 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: she's not allowed to leave the room. Then he turns 580 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: on a sound machine to cover up what's happening in 581 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: that bedroom between the two of them, so the roommates 582 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: can't hear. No wonder she's afraid, Gigi. 583 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 7: It's terrifying. Nancy. You have to wonder at that point, 584 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,360 Speaker 7: what is she thinking. I mean, there are people just 585 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 7: outside those doors that could get her to safety. But 586 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 7: I'm sure this man has got her so scared. If 587 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 7: she makes a peep, who knows did he say he would. 588 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: Kill her, what he would do to her. 589 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 7: But to know that there are people just a room 590 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 7: or two away, and you have to be quiet so 591 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 7: you're not found. This poor child is going to need 592 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 7: therapy for the rest of her life to overcome the 593 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 7: trauma she has endured with everything this man has put 594 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 7: her through. And the fact that he's doing these sound 595 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 7: machines and he's avoiding tolls, it all shows he is 596 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 7: avoiding being caught because he knows what he did was wrong, 597 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 7: I mean to drive that distance alone. Nancy blows my mind. 598 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 7: It shows the intent clear as day, what he wanted 599 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 7: to do with that innocent young girl. 600 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: Listen. 601 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 8: The forty four year old man tells his team girlfriend 602 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 8: it isn't safe for her to leave his room, but 603 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 8: reluctantly agrees to take her out if she dyes her 604 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 8: hair and wears large sunglasses. But occasional outings quickly turned 605 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 8: to forced labor. The man makes the girl work for 606 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 8: his snow shoveling company alongside paid employees, wearing a mask 607 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 8: to conceal her age and identity. 608 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: God Shipley, did you hear that? He makes her dye 609 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: her hair and wear large sunglasses, then puts her outside 610 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: in a mask under threat, and this is molesting her 611 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,359 Speaker 1: at night, puts her outside in the cold to work 612 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: for his snow removal company, shoveling sidewalks in roads, and 613 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: the girl can't get in touch with her dad or 614 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 1: anybody else. 615 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 6: Of course, he's manipulated her into a situation where she 616 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 6: believes she's not free to go, and so he watches her, 617 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 6: He guides her, He ensures that she does exactly what 618 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 6: he wants, so she's in fear the whole time she's there. 619 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 6: The fantasy of what originally started rapidly went away as 620 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 6: he's controlling everything that she does. 621 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: But then a break in the case more than four 622 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: months after. 623 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 11: The Missouri teen convinces the man to give her a 624 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 11: cell phone to help pass the time while she sits 625 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 11: in his room alone. The man sets up one of 626 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 11: his old phones for her, believing the device is too 627 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 11: old to access social media, but the team manages to 628 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 11: download Instagram and access her account. The girl messages a 629 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 11: friend for help, saying she's in another state and go 630 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 11: straight to police. 631 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: Once that Instagram is sent. And remember the perp thought 632 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: she couldn't use a flip phone as a portal to 633 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 1: the Internet. He was wrong to take us immediately began 634 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,959 Speaker 1: working on identifying the location of the IP address listen. 635 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 12: The Missouri Cybercrimes Task Force immediately gets to work tracing 636 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 12: the IP address used to send the Instagram messages. The 637 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 12: Missouri task Force reaches out to Fort Collins, Colorado Police 638 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 12: cybercrime unit, believing they've pinpointed the address where the girl 639 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 12: is being held. Maximilian Bond Rescue, who should be registered 640 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 12: as a sex offender lives at the home. Bond Rescue 641 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 12: failed to update his registration, so Fort Collins police have 642 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 12: no problem securing a search warrant for the home on 643 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 12: Warre and Landing. 644 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 8: Backed by a swat team. Fort Collins police speak with 645 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 8: in bond Rescue at his home. Bond Rescue denies knowledge 646 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,479 Speaker 8: of a missing Missouri girl and says officers may find 647 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 8: an adult female in the home, but certainly not a miner. However, 648 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 8: officers searching the home open a closet door and Bond 649 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 8: Rescue's bedroom and find a naked girl cowering inside. The 650 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 8: girl identifies herself as the Columbia teen officers are looking 651 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 8: for her. Confiscated ID cards are also found in the home. 652 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: This is so disturbing it mirrors a case I personally 653 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: investigated and covered. I always called her the Girl and 654 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:24,720 Speaker 1: the Pink Hat Jessica Lunsford. This little girl goes missing, 655 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: cops immediately start looking for her. I befriended her dad. 656 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: We worked together. As it turns out, one of the 657 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: homes the police canvassed was where she was ultimately found, 658 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: but originally when cops went there, they didn't see her. 659 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: She was being kept prisoner in a closet by killer 660 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:03,320 Speaker 1: John Evander Cooey. Cooeye had been molesting her the entire time. 661 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: The girl in the pink hat, Jessica Lunsford, was buried 662 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: alive and died that way. When cops first came to 663 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: his door, he was living with relatives in a mobile home. 664 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: He didn't let them in. Fully, they didn't look in 665 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: other words, they didn't look in closets. Thank god, in 666 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: this case, the case in chief l E looked in 667 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: the closets. To you, Gig McKelvey, thanked God. They looked 668 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: in the closets and just didn't take his word for 669 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: it like what happened in Jessica's case. What happened, Yeah, I. 670 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 7: Mean, thank goodness they looked in the closet, because every 671 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 7: one of these young people that are taken this way 672 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 7: have the risk of becoming another Jessica Lunsford. These people 673 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 7: have no respect for the law and no respect for children, 674 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 7: no respect for humanity in general, and the You know, 675 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 7: these investigations have to be so precise when you have 676 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 7: a missing child, because missing one small detail like a closet, 677 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 7: could be the biggest clue in the whole case, which 678 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 7: is your victim and so I think when they go 679 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 7: in to look for these kids, you have to turn 680 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,080 Speaker 7: everything over and consider and think, like the perpetrator, where 681 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 7: would you hide this child if law enforcement came knocking. 682 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 7: Because we can't have kids that are killed and buried 683 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 7: alive because the investigation or the search forant wasn't executed fully. 684 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 7: It's a disservice to these victims and it's just careless. 685 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 7: And we saw that in the Jessica Lunsford case. 686 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: In this case, however, night and day comparison, the little 687 00:41:53,719 --> 00:42:02,000 Speaker 1: girl is found naked, cowering but alive, fear but alive. 688 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: The case is not over. The state is building its evidence. 689 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about this case. 690 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:16,280 Speaker 1: If you were a worker in the snow removal company 691 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: that he owns, it's called faux Co snow Go, a 692 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 1: snow removal service in Fort Collins, Colorado, if you saw 693 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,800 Speaker 1: them en route, if you know anything at all, the 694 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: state needs you nine seven zero four one six to 695 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 1: zero two six. He was let off the hook before 696 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: and was required to register for life as a sex offender, 697 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: yet he got his hands on this little girl. I 698 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: want him behind bars for the rest of his life. 699 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: Don't you Tip line nine seven zero four one six 700 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: two zero two six. Thank you to our guest, but 701 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us. Good Night friend, 702 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: m HM.