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Speaker 1: I can't believe it's our last episode. I can't either.

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Speaker 2: Are it's crazy.

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Speaker 3: My name is Evil Longoria and I am My de

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Speaker 3: Gomez Racon and Welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast

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Speaker 3: that explores our past and present through food.

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Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some

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Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.

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Speaker 3: So make yourself at home. E When Bri Mitchell, we

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Speaker 3: talk about it all the time.

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Speaker 1: You and I were like, isn't this we having so

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Speaker 1: much fun? What a ride?

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Speaker 2: The best, the best, And at the beginning, it's like

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Speaker 2: what thirty episodes felt like a million, and now it's like,

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Speaker 2: that's it thirty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, because we have so much to talk about,

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Speaker 3: and there's so many things that we were just saying,

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Speaker 3: we could have broken up some of the episodes into

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Speaker 3: two episodes because we could talk on and on and on.

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Speaker 3: We've had an amazing season of conversation about corn versus flower,

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Speaker 3: about amazing ingredient and dishes, and native and endemic foods and.

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Speaker 1: Old Word foods and New World foods.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's been so fun. I've learned so much

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Speaker 2: and we've had so many adventures.

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Speaker 3: I've learned so much. You are the expert. I'm just

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Speaker 3: here to banter with you.

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Speaker 2: I think we're a good team.

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Speaker 1: Eva.

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Speaker 3: Yeh, what was your what's your favorite highlights of season

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Speaker 3: one of Hungary for history?

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, going to Vera Cruz and seeing the vanilla

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Speaker 2: when you impregnated that vanilla that I did, that was

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Speaker 2: really special.

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Speaker 1: I mean just seeing that so special.

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Speaker 2: It was incredible, so special.

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Speaker 1: I got to say, Vera Cruz is up there.

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Speaker 3: When people ask me about searching for Mexico and those episodes,

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Speaker 3: they're like, what was your favorite? Obviously Wahaka, obviously Mexico City,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, no, I mean Vera Cruz had

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Speaker 3: to be just mind blowing because I didn't know what

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Speaker 3: to expect from that region. But the vanilla episode, our

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Speaker 3: coffee episode, also from Veda Cruise, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was really special.

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Speaker 4: Yea.

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Speaker 3: I hope everybody can visit Vera Cruz and go to

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Speaker 3: the vanilla fields because the fact that it's like a

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Speaker 3: dying plant, like it's not going to be around for

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Speaker 3: much longer. You have to go see how a vanilla

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Speaker 3: bean is made.

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Speaker 2: It's just yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: I also love when we I love when we traveled

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Speaker 3: to Spain because you know, we did the olive oil

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Speaker 3: and the wine episodes there. But I loved you know,

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Speaker 3: Mike and I were just walking down the street and

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Speaker 3: started talking about colonized diets and like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: should we do an episode on that? And God, you know,

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Speaker 3: how do we reconcile being Mexican and Mexican American but

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Speaker 3: like having Spanish blood and we're in the mother country

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Speaker 3: and we're in the colonizer country, but yet we still

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Speaker 3: we speak Spanish, we're both Catholic, We're about you know,

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Speaker 3: all the traditions that come with it.

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Speaker 1: Like we're like, oh, yeah, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: It's so loaded. I mean, it's so loaded. And that

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Speaker 2: led us to our conversation with Claudia Serrato, which was

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Speaker 2: so interesting interesting. Yeah, and I think that just having

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Speaker 2: these conversations and just it takes us all over the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, some of them greed. I mean, we've talked about,

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Speaker 2: like you said, native foods and this and that, and god,

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Speaker 2: it's just such a melting pot.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's one thing that I learned that I was really

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Speaker 2: surprised by, and it might be the silliest thing that

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Speaker 2: Chilea's are berries.

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Speaker 1: I know that was mind blowing.

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Speaker 3: And also what I was blown away by was in

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Speaker 3: our beer episode that that's where really the notion of

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Speaker 3: witches came from because of the brewery was done by

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Speaker 3: women and they had to wear pointy hats in the

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Speaker 3: market for people to find them. What that's where the

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Speaker 3: witches hat comes from. Like, that was pretty fascinating to me.

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Speaker 2: There's so many, so many things so.

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Speaker 1: That I love. By now people have realized Hungary for history.

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Speaker 3: We talk a lot about a lot of different foods

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Speaker 3: in history, but really focused on our Mexican experience in

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Speaker 3: Mexican cuisine. And every time I mentioned to people that,

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Speaker 3: you know, UNESCO has added Mexican cuisine to their list

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Speaker 3: of Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, which means it's like

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Speaker 3: a cultural treasure. The only other cuisine in its entirety

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Speaker 3: is French, so it's only French in Mexican cuisine protected

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Speaker 3: by UNESCO as an Intangible Cultural heritage for its farming methods,

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Speaker 3: it's cooking processes, an endemic and native utensils.

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Speaker 1: It's important.

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Speaker 3: Like we're like wow, And I think people think of

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Speaker 3: Mexican food sometimes as not less than but just like

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Speaker 3: not as fancy as French or Italian and it's like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: it's the only the second cuisine that's added to UNESCO's

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Speaker 3: importance of this designation. And it goes beyond the taste buds.

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Speaker 3: It's centuries of recognition to value the food of Mexico.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredible. But what I find really interesting. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's all of that, and Mexican food is extraordinary on

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Speaker 2: so many different levels, but it took centuries for Mexicans

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Speaker 2: themselves to recognize the value of their own food because

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Speaker 2: of colonization. And you know when we did our that

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Speaker 2: goes in street food episode, Oh that goes our you know,

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Speaker 2: lower class street food, and you know all of these

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Speaker 2: labels that were placed over the over the centuries by

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Speaker 2: by different people. It took many years for Mexicans, some

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Speaker 2: not all, but to think, oh, yeah, corn is really

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Speaker 2: valuable and corn has such a rich, long, deep history,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's it's still it's changing. I think now,

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Speaker 2: you know, people are really want to learn more. And

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Speaker 2: I think because people are so interested in where their

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Speaker 2: food comes from that these conversations are being hot right now.

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Speaker 2: And this is one of the reasons why I love

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Speaker 2: talking to you about this, you know, because it's exciting

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Speaker 2: to go back, to go back, and to go forward

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Speaker 2: and you know, sideways and explore it all.

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Speaker 3: I knew a lot of ingredients that were endemic to

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Speaker 3: Mexico because you and I were both pretty literate and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that, but there were some that I was

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Speaker 3: surprised about that weren't.

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Speaker 1: I was like, for sure, the lime is endemic to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: No it's not. It's you know, endemic to Asia.

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Speaker 3: Versy Lanthra, right, Like what yeah, Yeah. But I also

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Speaker 3: think Mexican food at the heart. At the heart I

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Speaker 3: think all food, but specifically Mexican food is tradition. It's

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Speaker 3: like a series of food traditions, and you can, you know,

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Speaker 3: visit all of these cookbooks and manuscripts and history and

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Speaker 3: see just the evolution of the people and that story

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Speaker 3: that's told through the food, whether immigration, conquest, colonization, you know, enslavement,

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Speaker 3: you know Vera Cruz with La Waca.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgot about that. That's another highlight. Seeing that

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Speaker 2: another highlight of Vera Cruz.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then seeing you know, the indigenous and native culture

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Speaker 3: hold on with such a grip like we will not

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Speaker 3: give up. These traditions or these processes. You know, corn

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Speaker 3: survived that right, Their stories are able to be told

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Speaker 3: because of the food we eat today, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: the native experiences all around us.

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Speaker 2: These crops, a lot of these crops have survived because

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Speaker 2: that's their job, has been taking care of these crops

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Speaker 2: from generation to generation to generation. And only now are

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Speaker 2: we paying attention.

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Speaker 3: Well that yeah, it's living its oral history. It's living history.

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Speaker 3: And that's why I think talking about food and documenting

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Speaker 3: food and process and techniques is so important. You know,

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Speaker 3: the eating habits and culinary practices of a people or

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Speaker 3: region or a country is about telling the history.

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Speaker 2: Just the importance of writing down a recipe, making these dishes,

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Speaker 2: because things if you don't talk about it, if you

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Speaker 2: don't cook it, if you don't grow it, the stuff

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Speaker 2: will disappear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it'll be forgotten, totally, totally.

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Speaker 3: I also love that discussing food brings to light a

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Speaker 3: lot of.

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Speaker 1: Politics, you know, economics.

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Speaker 3: Social issues, environmental issues, and the intersection of those issues

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Speaker 3: as they overlap on each other. But the intersection of

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Speaker 3: culture across time and place. And you know, whether it

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Speaker 3: was a street vendor episode or the decolonizing episode or

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Speaker 3: our cookbook episodes. Right, Like, there's a lot of social

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Speaker 3: issues that we touch upon that I think are worth discussing,

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Speaker 3: and I think an easy way into.

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Speaker 1: Those discussions is food.

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Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere, Hungry for History will be right back.

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Speaker 3: Have people asked you, like, what's authentic Mexican food or

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Speaker 3: what constitutes a truly authentic Mexican meal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I have a problem with that word authentic, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: what is authentic you know mean? Because on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: there are so many versions I think of authentic you know, cuisine. Right,

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Speaker 2: So these these patterns of colonization or central to these

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Speaker 2: conversations about food and authenticity, and yeah, maybe it's possible

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Speaker 2: for a country to have multiple authentic cuisines. For the

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Speaker 2: final episode of Hungry for History, we wanted to interview

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Speaker 2: someone cooking food authentic to them while also challenging the perceptions.

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Speaker 1: Of Mexican food in the US.

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Speaker 2: Here's our interview with Cheffray Garcia, a Native Angelino who

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Speaker 2: draws culinary inspiration from the city's rich culture in California's

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Speaker 2: agricultural abundance. Chef so, one of our favorite questions to

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Speaker 2: ask our guests is what are your favorite childhood food memories.

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Speaker 5: One of the biggest childhood memories for me was making

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Speaker 5: themalas around Christmas time because there was sort of a

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Speaker 5: whole family affairs, three generations of family working together on

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Speaker 5: one project, you know, all excited, all hungry, you know,

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Speaker 5: and this was when I was a kid, So it

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Speaker 5: just kind of added to that excitement.

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Speaker 4: Of of Christmas time.

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Speaker 5: You know, we had we had a tradition we'd start

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Speaker 5: that themalas and then we would get them cooking, you know,

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Speaker 5: go to church, come back, eat that themala is open presence.

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Speaker 5: So that's something that's always been stuck in my head

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Speaker 5: when it comes to just the idea and the thought

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Speaker 5: of family and celebration and the connection to food.

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Speaker 2: So who are your heroes? Is there are there any chefs,

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Speaker 2: either professionals or home cooks that have inspired you on

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Speaker 2: your journey.

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Speaker 4: I would say, not even culinary related.

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Speaker 5: My biggest inspirations and influences have been my parents, not

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Speaker 5: even from a food standpoint, but just that I say,

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Speaker 5: my dad kept me working and my mom kept me dreaming.

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Speaker 5: And I think that that's really what is sort of

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Speaker 5: pushing me to the level that I am now, is

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Speaker 5: that that hard work and that dedication and that you know,

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Speaker 5: no one can tell you, you know, when when to stop,

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Speaker 5: and we can put limits on what you can do

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Speaker 5: except for yourself. And that's something that has driven me.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: On the food side though, I think, especially with Mexican

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Speaker 5: food is Carlos Toliato. He has an amazing restaurant in

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Speaker 5: Orange County, Taco Maria, and he opened up Taco Maria

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Speaker 5: around the same time, a little bit before we had

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Speaker 5: opened up Broken Spanish, and he was sort of a

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Speaker 5: you know, a soldier along, you know, with me in

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Speaker 5: this in this battle to bring you know, Alta, California

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Speaker 5: and the cuisine to the forefront. He's inspired me and

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Speaker 5: continues to do so and supports me as well as

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Speaker 5: a Portegavidia from Macienda.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 5: You know, without him, there would be there would be

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Speaker 5: no corn, there would be no no mass.

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Speaker 4: At our restaurants.

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Speaker 5: His dedication to land race corn, organic corn, bringing you know,

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Speaker 5: these crops back from from near extinction has been a huge,

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Speaker 5: huge asset for us.

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Speaker 2: You've been in the restaurant business for many, many years.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about your journey

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Speaker 2: and how things have evolved over the years.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I have a long journey in this business.

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Speaker 5: Started in nineteen ninety four. I was a bus boy

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Speaker 5: at at a local Mexican restaurant, handing out chips and salsa.

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Speaker 4: In that, you know, fell in love with the industry,

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Speaker 4: fell in love with food.

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Speaker 5: It actually took me in the path to work more

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Speaker 5: on the on the service side, you know, as a waiter,

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Speaker 5: paying my way through through college. After that, fell in

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Speaker 5: love with with the kitchen, with the you know.

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Speaker 4: My curiosity for ingredients, for technique, for execution. It took

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Speaker 4: me on a path through some very iron restaurants.

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Speaker 5: And what I was finding is that I was getting

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Speaker 5: a certain I guess part of my curiosity filled and

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Speaker 5: I was learning a new skill.

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Speaker 4: But it was still lacking a bit of connection for me.

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Speaker 5: As I was making these recipes, I could I could

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Speaker 5: do them well, I could execute them well, but it

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Speaker 5: was really just me working off of a sheet of

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Speaker 5: paper that somebody handed me, and I could taste that

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Speaker 5: you have enough salt, is it cooked enough or undercook

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Speaker 5: But there wasn't that next level connection that I had

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Speaker 5: to other ingredients and other foods. So after about fifteen

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Speaker 5: years of cooking, mostly still a style of California cuisine,

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Speaker 5: but more eurocentric. I decided to shift into something that

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Speaker 5: connected with me personally, and that was Broken Spanish.

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Speaker 4: And doing so, you know, it allowed.

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Speaker 5: Me to connect to more than just those superficial ideas

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Speaker 5: of flavors and is this visually pleasing, but really connecting

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Speaker 5: two memories to happiness, to joy, to family. And I

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Speaker 5: feel like that allowed me to cook at not only

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Speaker 5: another level, but to connect with people and bring some

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Speaker 5: of those moments to them.

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Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about Astrid. I've been there.

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Speaker 2: It's so delicious, amazing, So tell us about this restaurant

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Speaker 2: and how you evolved from Broken Spanish to Astrid.

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Speaker 5: Sure, I think I think the overall perception of Mexican

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Speaker 5: food is evolving, and in a positive way. Is it's

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Speaker 5: very in vogue, but I think it's still underappreciated and

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Speaker 5: undervalued when it comes to really understanding the diversity of

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Speaker 5: Mexican food and cuisine and culture and to really, you know,

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Speaker 5: assign it that same value that you might other other

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Speaker 5: other cuisines that are using near identical ingredients but manipulating

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Speaker 5: them in a in a different way. And you know,

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Speaker 5: at at Astrid, you know, it is a very Californian cuisine.

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Speaker 5: There is a very Californian restaurant, I should say, and

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Speaker 5: specifically Angelino in that it incorporates culinary traditions from all

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Speaker 5: around the world, but especially you know, Mexico, Latin America,

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Speaker 5: and some of those flavors that that I just really

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Speaker 5: enjoy cooking with and you'll see, you know, that appear

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Speaker 5: in many of the dishes that we do without it

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Speaker 5: being sort of a quote Mexican restaurant, but some of

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Speaker 5: those flavors and styles that I've worked on over the years.

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Speaker 2: For people who might not be familiar with the term,

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Speaker 2: how do you define Alta California cuisine? What is it?

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Speaker 4: Sure?

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Speaker 5: I think Alta California is more than just a geographic

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Speaker 5: you know, designation of you know, the areas of California

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Speaker 5: and some parts of the the south southwest there. But

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Speaker 5: it's really a cuisine that's it is rooted in in

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Speaker 5: you know, it's native Mexican heritage, but takes on inspiration

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Speaker 5: from from California, you know specifically, you know, the ingredients

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Speaker 5: and the techniques and for me, you know, it's it

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Speaker 5: goes through a very very Angelino lens or Angelino filter

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Speaker 5: and Los Angeles is a is a very you know,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of diversity in people in cuisine, so

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Speaker 5: you are blessed with a lot of this cross pollination

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Speaker 5: of information in tradition that it works its way into

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Speaker 5: the flavors and the style of cooking that is out

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Speaker 5: the California.

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Speaker 2: Last question, are there any misconceptions about Mexican food or

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Speaker 2: Mexican American food that you would like to clear up?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, there's there's a lot of perceptions and misconceptions

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Speaker 5: about Mexican food. I think the biggest thing is that

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Speaker 5: people's unwillingness to pay for quality ingredients and quality craftsmanship

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Speaker 5: and workmanship when it comes to Mexican food, I think

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Speaker 5: that there's a stigma about it that you know, it

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Speaker 5: should be it should be cheap, it should be you know,

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Speaker 5: a top rush of costs.

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Speaker 4: You want no more than two or three dollars.

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Speaker 5: And that there's you know, a limit to you know,

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Speaker 5: the creativity and and the you know, the flavor profile.

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Speaker 4: And that's not it. And Mexican food is.

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Speaker 5: More than dishes that you order by it by number

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Speaker 5: and a large plate of rice and beans with milf

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Speaker 5: and cheese over the top of it, so I would

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Speaker 5: say it out there and explore and appreciate.

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Speaker 2: Chef Ray, Thank you so much for joining the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining Hungary for History. We

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Speaker 2: are so excited to feature you on our last episode.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking the time. We've got

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Speaker 2: more after the break, so don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 3: What do you think the perception of Mexican food is

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Speaker 3: here in the US.

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Speaker 2: I think that it's changing, right, I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: that there are a number of high end Mexican restaurants

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Speaker 2: that have opened up in the city or in the

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Speaker 2: US rather. But I think a lot of people still

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Speaker 2: think that if Mexican food is expensive, it's not authentic,

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Speaker 2: because Mexican food should be cheap street food. But this

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Speaker 2: to downplay this Mexican fine dining just downplays the contributions

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Speaker 2: and the experiences of Mexicans who call the US home.

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Speaker 2: I think it sort of minimizes the importance, you know,

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Speaker 2: and the respect for Mexican food ways and you know,

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Speaker 2: traditions and innovation and history and flavor. But I think

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Speaker 2: that it's changing. There are a lot of people, I

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Speaker 2: think that have introduced sort of fine dining, and people

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Speaker 2: are becoming much more open about it. But I think

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Speaker 2: Mexicans are maybe not seen, you know, as accepted as

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Speaker 2: much as Mexican food.

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Speaker 3: Well, Mexican cuisine is. It is one of the most

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Speaker 3: popular ethnic cuisines in the United States because it's the

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Speaker 3: most popular or ethnic cuisine in twenty seven states, and

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Speaker 3: Chinese food is the most popular in twenty two other states.

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Speaker 3: So Mexico inches out being one of the most popular

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Speaker 3: ethnic cuisine in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's really interesting. So I'm wondering, like

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Speaker 2: if claiming the inexpensive street baccal or the hole in

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Speaker 2: the wall no frills place, calling that authentic, does it

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Speaker 2: inflict damage on an already marginalized community.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, that's a good question.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the sort of no frills interior design comes out

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Speaker 2: of necessity, and then this necessity becomes authenticity. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know what does that mean for chefs Mexican or

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Speaker 2: Mexican American chefs that want to carve new paths, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it's a struggle.

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Speaker 3: What does it mean also for non Mexican chefs doing

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Speaker 3: Mexican food, like Rick Bayless, right, he's like an authority

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Speaker 3: on Mexican food, especially in a conversation today about who

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Speaker 3: gets to cook and say and where what. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think it's an interesting conversation. I don't know the answer

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to it, but yeah, I

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Speaker 2: mean he was he has you know, the PBS show

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Speaker 2: and Susan Fenneger and Mary Milligan when they opened they

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Speaker 2: Orpen Border Grill and had a Food Network show in

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Speaker 2: the nineties called two Hot Tamales That would not Fly,

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Speaker 2: That would not Friday. No, that would not fly today,

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Speaker 2: Fly today.

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Speaker 3: But we also have to celebrate you know, those Mexican

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Speaker 3: Americans are Mexicans that are carving paths in the food

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Speaker 3: industry as well, like Zarela Martinez who put Mexican fine

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Speaker 3: dining on the map in New York in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: You know her restaurant Zarella.

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Speaker 3: It served everything from tuna withpan and then her son

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Speaker 3: Adon Sanchez, who I wanted to develop a go around,

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Speaker 3: you know, followed in her footsteps and he's had multiple

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Speaker 3: Food Network shows. He has a James Beard Award. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, to celebrate them as well. Or Jorgue Gavida

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Speaker 3: our first guest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, his book Massa is just a national bestseller. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was voted and the book was voted one of

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Speaker 2: the best cookbooks of twenty twenty two and it's last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And it's a book on the history of corn,

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Speaker 2: and this is a bestseller. There are so many people

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Speaker 2: your show, you know, just bringing I mean, it's a

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Speaker 2: love letter to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing.

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Speaker 3: Searching for Mexico really was a dream trip and a

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Speaker 3: show that I think will finally show the beauty of

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Speaker 3: this amazing country of Mexico, because when you're talking about foods,

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Speaker 3: you're talking about people, and the people of Mexico are

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Speaker 3: really beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I just feel like, you know, what's the future

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Speaker 3: for Mexican food in this country and how are people

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Speaker 3: perceiving this cuisine or how this cuisine is changing, because

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Speaker 3: it's allowed to change, it's allowed to evolve, it's allowed

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Speaker 3: to be a fusion, it's allowed to like, I think

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Speaker 3: all those things are exciting.

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Speaker 2: There's so many people that are experimenting and doing such

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Speaker 2: interesting things, and I agree it's exciting.

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Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you, we have loved going on

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Speaker 3: this journey with y'all, and we hope you had as

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Speaker 3: much fun as we did. I mean, if you could

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Speaker 3: see our text messages to each other, you guys would

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Speaker 3: know just how happy and excited we have been to

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Speaker 3: do this show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you to all of our listeners. Please share the

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Speaker 2: podcast with friends and family, and don't forget to like

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Speaker 2: rate us, leave us messages. We really love hearing from you.

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Speaker 3: And a special shout out to all the guests who

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Speaker 3: did participate.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You helped make this show very special.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for really making this a memorable season one.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and thank you Eva.

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Speaker 3: Thank you my Dan, I love you, Love you. Hungry

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Speaker 3: for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership with

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Speaker 3: Iheart'smichaultura podcast network.

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Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.