WEBVTT - How To Resist Interrogation at Home and Abroad 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:04.680 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:09.080 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.119 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:13.880 production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:29.400 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:30.520 my name is Noah. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.560 They call be Bed. We're joined as always with our 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.680 super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagod. Most importantly, you 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.479 are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.479 they don't want you to know. Let's start here, gentlemen, 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.440 have you ever been interrogated. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:51.960 Oh, goshya by my mom, my ex wife. This little 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.240 guy right here sometimes gets a little demanded. No, not 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.880 in a professional setting, look like you know, under duress 0:00:58.960 --> 0:00:59.880 or in confinement. 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.160 I've been interrogated by my dog about why it is 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:07.280 time to eat right now, and there's you know, we 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.000 can't wait on your rules. It's time to eat now. 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:14.399 I've also been there, Matt. I've been interrogated sometimes on 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:19.840 air by my cats who don't understand podcast in general. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:21.800 But that's what you could say about so many other 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:25.160 family members. I think we've we all at least know 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.720 someone who has been involved in a legal inquiry of 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.600 one sort or another. Or maybe you're a bystander and 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.319 you see a automobile accident, right, and you stop to 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.800 be a witness for the police. They're going to ask 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.920 you some questions. You're not necessarily in trouble, but they 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.880 are kind of interrogating you because they want to know 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:46.480 what's going on. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:48.800 Well, it's interesting that you bring that up, and because 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.960 I've always been curious as to whether there is a 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.360 line between being questioned and being interrogated. 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.520 Right, where did the Miranda rights kick in? For example? Well, 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:02.000 we know that in the ui U there are an 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:05.000 increasing number of people who are being put to some 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.480 kind of interrogation for any number of reasons, especially with 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.040 the rise of ice. And you could be the hardest 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.160 badger in the bag and tire, but given enough time 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:19.640 and incentive, everybody confirms that you will break. So yeah, yeah, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.080 the best we can hope is to resist for as 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.200 long as possible. We have to say this part loud. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.200 Video producers make sure we get this across. This is 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.240 not legal advice. None of this is legal advice. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.400 Just gentle you know, the encouragement, you know, to act 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:38.239 as in a certain way. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.080 Yes, and in all likelihood you will never be fully 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.520 interrogated in some of the ways we're going to discuss here. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.720 Knock on, would we hope not. 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:53.600 The paramilitary military stuff, you know, extra judicial interrogation kind 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.959 of thing, but the likelihood that you end up in 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.800 a situation that Ben was describing the but you know 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:02.480 you're going to be asked a bunch of questions at 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:06.280 some point by law enforcement. That that can and probably 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.919 will happen. And it doesn't mean there's like a murder 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.160 charge anywhere involved there. It just means you might get questions. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.720 Yeah, and that's a great place for us to start. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.640 Maybe we take a break for a word from our 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:27.160 sponsors and we dive in. Here are the facts first 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:31.720 things verse Again, Cadot emphasize this enough. We are not lawyers, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:35.840 but the lawyers are correct. You can avoid it. Do 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:39.680 not speak to any law of your land if you 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.840 can avoid it. If you're in the US, you have 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:46.160 a constitutional right to remain silent via something called the 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:51.040 Fifth Amendment, which I think sometimes gets unfairly portrayed as 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.720 the sketchiest of amendments. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.320 Also sometimes fairly portrayed, I think in the way we've 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.600 been seeing it flung around willy nilly these days, and 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.880 of course there is a certain uh stigma surrounding it 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.480 that it does imply some level of guilt, which to 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.560 your point, Ben, I think isn't always fair though in 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.360 some of the Gelane Maxwell uses of it, for example, uh, 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:16.000 some of the Epstein you know files of it all 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.560 does seem to cast dispersions, let's just say, on the 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.520 innocence of the folks using it to answer every single question. 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:27.440 Plus those hilarious depositions. When you can get a hold 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.040 of the footage where it's somebody being asked a question, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:31.360 they just go fifth. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.240 Hold on, I plead the fifth? 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:41.320 Yeah, five? 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.279 Is that a Chappelle thing? 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:44.560 Yes? 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.680 Yeah, yeah, it's so good. 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:52.840 The Fifth Amendment states mandates that no person shall quote 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.440 be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.560 against himself. That's why people are saying that does it 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:01.920 imply that you did a crime? 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:04.760 I guess I've been hearing a lot of chatter too. 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.520 Maybe you guys have thoughts about this, certainly you do. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:09.320 Whether or not it is. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.000 Lost some of its effectiveness or there is a world 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.239 where it is unfairly used or used in a way 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.800 that seems to be a way of skirting the law 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.400 rather than it being a benefit to individual civil liberties. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:28.320 I mean, it definitely can happen. It can be loopholed, weaponized, 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.359 especially if you have the socioeconomic wherewithal to get a 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.000 cracked team of lawyers. Then they are going to do 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.360 everything possible to get the best outcome for whatever your 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:46.479 case is. It also Maxwell right, Galai Maxwell cough cough 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.880 current Potus cough cough right. I mean, I don't know, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.920 it's it's weird because if we ask why it's important, 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.159 Like to your point, Noel, the laws only work so 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.360 long as they are honestly enforced, which is coming in 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:05.080 increasing issue here. But why did the founding fathers, who 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.000 were very busy at the time, why did they make 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.760 the Constitution and then go back and make a whole 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.239 other document we call the Bill of Rights. It's probably 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.600 because George and the boys knew how crazy English law 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.320 could get, and if we're being honest, just a little 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.000 outside of the textbook, they probably knew they would be 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:28.520 up for some serious accusations of war crimes if things 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.040 didn't go to plant. 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.880 All right, I mean George and the boys were revolutionaries, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.920 Oh yeah, criminals you know, a terrorists perhaps, right, they 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.279 could be called that by the English crown. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.360 Yeah, and if you're doing a little pigh in the 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.920 sky with the Founders, you may think, oh, they recognize 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.200 that power can be abused, you know, no matter who's 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:54.880 holding it, and maybe even we could become corrupted one day. No, 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:58.440 that's a little bit mythical. Well when it comes there's 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.080 so many Founding Father mythical things that are out there, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:06.040 But there is a knowledge here that it just depends 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.400 on who's on the other side of the table in 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.760 that eight x ten room, right, it just depends. So 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.560 you need to have safeguards to protect everybody. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.600 Well, I mean the whole point of the Second Amendments 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.080 and the right to bear arms was i believe specifically 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.200 in reference to defending yourself against a corrupt government. 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:32.320 Yes, yeah. Also the also the mandate against being forced 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.160 to station troops in your home and to feed them 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.560 and so on. Like a lot of this stuff is 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.960 a good idea in theory. Another thing about who's on 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:46.160 which side of the interrogation table. There's something called the 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.760 sixth Amendment in the United States, which was an absolute 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.560 banger when it came out. It said you have the 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.840 right to the assistance of counsel, which means that in 0:07:57.000 --> 0:08:02.280 a criminal interrogation caveat pastric copyat, you have the right 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.280 to speak with an attorney before speaking to law enforcement. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.160 This is why in all the copaganda films or programs 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.480 you see on television, that's why someone suddenly clams up 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:17.080 and just says, lawyer, that does happen, Yeah, for sure. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.800 And these are the Miranda rights, ben Or like I believe, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:23.040 I've always been curious as to the etymology. That's not 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.240 the right word, but just the history of the Miranda rights. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.600 Obviously it had something to do with, you know, people 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.240 not being aware, and it was a way of covering 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.560 the butts of the law enforcement as well as you know, 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.520 making individuals accused of a crime aware of their rights. 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.080 But it seems like most of the ones that are 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.440 contained in those rights they read you are contained within 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:42.360 the Bill of Rights. 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:46.440 Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to. It's from nineteen sixty six 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.760 Miranda versus Arizona Supreme Court case, and eventually, as a 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:56.600 result of the Court's findings, the United States said, look, 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:01.160 we need a special additional protection to make sure the 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:06.680 Fifth Amendment against self incrimination is a thing everybody knows 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:10.200 about because not everybody knew about it. Right, you're panicked, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.080 you're detained, you may have done something. You may have 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.040 just been in the wrong place at the wrong time, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.240 and then in your panic you might run a little 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:21.240 bit at the mouth. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.760 In a way, the thing you say can and will 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.160 be used against you in a court of loss. That 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.720 just don't say anything. We're trying to help you out there, buddy, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:30.960 We're doing to have a solid here. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.240 That's something that attorneys will often say, and they'll they'll 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.160 usually on the YouTube at least they'll give that same 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.360 disclaimer we gave. Hey, this is my legal advice. I'm 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.400 just telling you my experience as an attorney. This concept 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.960 that anything you say that that part of them Miranda writes, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.640 anything you say or do can't be used against you 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.360 in a court of law. The concept that when you 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.920 are being interviewed, right, if you are in one of 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:01.760 those rooms, you are probably already looked as guilty of 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.440 something by the folks who put you in that room, 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.360 or at least have a strong suspicion that you're guilty 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:07.800 of something. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.880 You are sus my friend, Yes, indeed, so when you. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.560 Say things in that room, it is not to defend 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.600 yourself by any means. It is literally to build the 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.040 case against you what you're saying in that room. 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.080 Right, regardless of how friendly the demeanor may be. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.920 Exactly so. But once you have that attorney present, right, 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.560 or and you have discussions with an attorney, then you 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.800 can say things that are probably going to be better 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:34.120 for you. 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.840 Yeah. Again, these two amendments in particular might sound a 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.840 little bit sketchy, but anybody who's been on the wrong 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:46.920 side of certain conversations with law enforcement knows exactly why 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.640 those rights exist, why they're so important. Before the rise 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.160 of modern legal proceedings, which are still very much work 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:59.520 in progress, the law was arbitrary and cartoonishly brutal. The 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.199 local ruler, whomever the mucky you muck may be, could, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.280 at any point in time just decide they don't like 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.360 you for one reason or another. Maybe you're Jewish, maybe 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:14.000 you're from the poor part of town, maybe there's economic instability. 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.720 They need a convenient scapegoat. So if targeted, your guilt 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:23.280 is historically going to be assumed, and the protections, at 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:29.600 least in Western Europe, for proving oneself innocent were likewise 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.920 kind of buffo trial by ordeal, like, hey, you know, 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.319 trial by ordeal could be something like sticking your hand 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.520 and boiling water or just fighting and seeing who survives. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.120 Are you all up on Night of the Seven Kingdoms? Yes, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:50.000 I think it's phenomenal, I want to say, And the 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.640 most recent episode involved a trial by combat, which I've 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.840 always found delightfully brutal and just esoteric and like it's 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.240 about the gods they decide. You mentioned in the document 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.959 here ban or the outline, the idea of a kangaroo court, 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:11.120 h the notion that for optics, for the presentation of fairness, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.360 we will have a trial, but the outcome is predetermined, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:16.680 and it is all literally just to say we did 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.680 the thing and you know, keep the peace quote unquote, 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.960 make make you know, perhaps prevent an uprising because no, no, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.280 we did. We gave them their fair shake. But it 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.520 is in fact predetermined and you have no chance of 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:30.640 being acquitted. 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.120 Yes, And we see even back then, we see the 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.880 same method of loaded questions that exist in modern interrogations today. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:44.960 So it's not necessarily for instance, hey, Dylan tennessee pel Fagan, 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.960 did you kill mothman instead? It's hey, Dylan, why did 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:49.840 you kill Mothman? 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:51.600 He had it coming. 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.400 So pretty much attack and those buns were too glistening 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.440 for my takes. I couldn't have a creature that beautiful 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:05.000 in the world Premio looking like a Master's of the 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:06.359 Universe action figure. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:07.559 Yeah, they really does. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:11.440 Even back then, I was like, oh, in the days 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.280 of winterfella. 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:18.000 No, yeah, so the days of before the fall of winterfel. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.160 I mean, okay, So during this time we see that 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:27.760 interrogation wasn't highly evolved the way it is theoretically today. Theoretically, right, 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:30.480 if you're an enemy soldier, they're going to torture you 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.240 for information and then they'll murder you in any number 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:39.120 of ghastly ways. And so this is how crooked it was. You. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.320 Let's say you fell victim to the inquisition. Maybe you 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.000 are an older person living on the fringes of society 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.440 they need someone to blame. 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.200 Might have a word on your nose, you know, or 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:52.680 you might have. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.880 You might have assets, especially like property of some sort. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.160 And often the inquisitors were I don't work it on commission, 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:05.200 so they got a share of your stuff if they 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.439 were able to quote unquote prove you're a witch, which 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.160 meant that they were incentivized not to find the truth 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.080 but to get your stuffed. 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:13.560 Yeah. 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:14.640 Bit of that. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.079 Going on with the ice raids these days in terms 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.800 of their quotas that they've got to meet. If you're 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.840 incentivized that way, not to mention the bonuses of it all, 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.120 you are much more likely to take some shortcuts and 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.560 you know, roll up people that maybe shouldn't be rolled up. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.200 Yeah, And saying I'm not a witch could indeed be 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.320 held as solid proof that you are in fact a witch. 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:42.320 Or saying you know, I have my passport, it's just 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.200 over there, can I get it? 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:46.680 And then being told we don't have time. We're just 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:49.560 sorting a shot in the face when you reach for it, right. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.040 Not to be too much of a pill about it. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.200 It's just there's a lot of parallels here, you know, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.400 Like again, saying I am a US citizen in many 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:01.560 ways is even further reason to drag people, you know, 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:02.320 through the ringer. 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:04.840 And you're talking about in the olden. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.520 Days, the witch trials of it all using a methodology 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.320 that is inherently flawed, and that is there's no version 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:14.440 of these events where you are going to come out 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.720 clean on the other side, once you've been pulled into 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:17.880 this rigmarole. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.680 I mean, the issue here is that the inquisitors would 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.680 get whatever confession they wanted, it would not necessarily be 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.680 an accurate confession because torture doesn't work at least in 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.520 that way. Torture is very good at getting people, the victims, 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.320 to say whatever you want them to say, but it 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.440 is not very good at getting them to tell you 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.320 the truth, especially with perishable intelligence. 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:46.640 Whether it works or not, I guess is a question 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.040 of what you want the outcome to be. You know, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:51.920 are people actually seeking the truth or are they just 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:53.760 looking to oppress? 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.040 And then further, once that confession by Hooker by Krop 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:03.840 was obtained, then the victim of these proceedings pretty much 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.040 lost all their usefulness. There was no longer really a 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:11.400 reason to keep them alive. It was much more socio 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:17.000 economically advantageous for the authorities to kill that person in 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:23.000 a public spectacle to set an example. So progress has 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.440 been made, but there's still a lot of work to do. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:28.920 The US on paper has a clear code of rights, 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:33.880 roles responsibilities to Matt's point for everybody involved, and these 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.640 roles and responsibilities and rights. They're all about how info 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.080 is disclosed, the rights of the person being questioned, and 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.880 the limits on behavior for those seeking the answers. Again 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.360 caveat pof cough as. 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:52.080 Not supposed to hit the people in your interview room 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.080 right now, supposed to Luther looking at you. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:56.400 I've been watching Luther. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:57.400 I just watched that. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.840 I didn't realize there was a fifth season. I binged 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.800 on it's the entire thing last night. Really good. 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.040 You're also supposed to respect the rules of the road 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.679 as far as things like attorney client privilege, so you 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:13.800 can't can't sneak a little little eavesdropping in. But this 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.520 is the deal. We keep saying the word theoretically, we 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.560 keep saying phrases like on paper. That's because the US 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.240 has a terrifying track record when it comes to interrogation. 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.920 Some of us in the crowd tonight are old enough 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:32.000 to remember when government agencies throughout the rule book entirely. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.639 And if we enhanced these interrogations. 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:39.640 Exactly engaged in a system of torture known as enhanced interrogation. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.959 They argued, Look for the greater good, we have to 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.240 kidnap people around the world, and we have to find 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.119 creative ways to beat the hit out of them until 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.399 they tell us what we want to know. And this 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.080 was the old ticking time bomb scenario, the idea that 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:58.600 a terrorist attack could occur within months, hours, days, and 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:04.200 saving many lives therefore outweighed the sin of ending one 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.120 and people just always. 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.280 A scary argument, the greater good argument. I don't know 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.720 that there's a version of it that benefits everyone. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:13.119 I think it's such. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.000 As it kind of a straw man argument. Maybe just 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.199 the idea of the greater good. It just feels like 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:19.480 double speak, like there is no version of for the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.200 greater good that is actually for the greater good. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.439 It's a rationalization, it's it's a way for the people 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:31.280 in power who are doing untoward things to justify their actions, 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.320 especially given that history has shown us time and time 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:39.639 again the ticking time bomb scenario proves false. Doesn't really 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.280 happen the way it's depicted. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.720 Such a weird thing that went down in history. Guys, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:47.560 you know the September eleventh attacks. If they went down 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.360 the way the government says they went down, then it 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:56.399 was a terrible breach of intelligence and a horrifying loss 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.440 of life. And you know, just a whole it was 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.359 just terrible, right, So I think we all understand that 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.159 that base desire to prevent that from happening again, you 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.320 know all the show twenty four and and folks who 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.760 are out there on land, Yeah, yes, who want to 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.560 stop those bad guys, And we're the guys are stopped 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:23.120 the bad guys. That rationalization thing you're talking about there 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.720 very least right, Well, it is, but it's also really 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.960 tough to just to recognize and realize that it went 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.640 on for years and years and years with that same 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:39.520 rationalization of preventing one of these with the number of 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:44.400 human beings that get, you know, stuck in a location 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.040 in another country that is not the one they're from, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.000 not the US place where they're just in a hole 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.640 and being subject to the things we're going to describe here. 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.720 I don't know, as we're going through it, I don't 0:19:56.760 --> 0:20:00.000 know how you like categorize what's what's the worst verse 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.959 version of the things we're going to talk about right 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.600 that someone could experience. But the more I go through this, 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.240 I feel like sleep deprivation is one of those things 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:15.160 that I didn't understand how horrifying sleep deprivation just alone 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.359 is when it comes to what was happening to human 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:23.040 beings during that time that the United States subjected people to. 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:27.120 Yeah, yeah, these are all great points because as we 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.680 record right now, folks, there are multiple people in Guantanamo 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:35.240 Bay and something like twenty sixhi Ish black sites around 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.280 the world, third part of countries, and a lot of 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.920 these people who have been held for years or decades. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:45.920 They've never been officially accused of a crime. They've been waterboarded, 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:51.920 put in stress positions, cold rooms, deprived of sleep, force fed, beaten, sodomized, 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:56.560 and emotionally manipulated to disclose information that they did not 0:20:57.119 --> 0:21:01.679 and do not possess. Barking up the wrong tree and 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:03.480 we're torturing the tree in the process. 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:07.480 Guys, I just had a this is probably obvious, but 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.199 I was reminded and watching some YouTube stuff the other 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.159 day that the Department of Homeland Security is such a 0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:16.919 recent innovations, like it was literally created as a response 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:19.159 to nine to eleven. I know probably everybody remembered that 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.040 but me, But I kind of it just goes to 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.280 show how quickly something can be normalized and you kind 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:26.400 of forget the circumstances that led it to the creation 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:28.560 of a thing that now has taken on this whole 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:30.400 other bizarre life of its own. 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:35.119 And homeland is a very specific word choice for a 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:39.320 government agency like that. Right, No, it's a fascism if 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.840 I was sipping it like ice coffee or wine. Ooh, 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:44.040 World War two. 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:45.800 Here we'll have our home. 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.760 Again, guys, and we will protect that home by listening 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.280 to everything everybody says and watching everyone on every street corner, 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.959 but definitely not the cell phones. We won't look at 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.000 your cell phones camera, guys, pinky promise, did you get 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.160 let us see the there's a recent picture of net 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.640 and Yahoo on the phone by his car, and it's 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.040 his personal phone, and he's got tape with black marker 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.200 across all of three of the cameras. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.960 Should pay attention to what those guys in the political 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.439 class pay attention to what they do with their phones. 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.960 We also, we also know the scenes so clearly where 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.920 we should save the quiet part out loud. The Patriot 0:22:26.960 --> 0:22:33.240 Act devilish thing, just tremendous marketing in the name, Like Congressman, 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:38.960 could you explain why you voted against the Patriot Act? 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:44.720 Ooh, just because look you're we assumed you were patriot 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:50.320 serving your constituency of US citizens, but you voted against. 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.359 The Patriot Act. 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.280 Yeah, why do you hate the troops so much? 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:55.760 Man? 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.199