1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: After commuting this sentence as a former Illinois governor Rod 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: Lagoyevich and former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Carrick, among others, 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: President Trump seemed to take his authority one step further. Yesterday, 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: I'm actually, I guess, the chief law enforcement officer of 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: the country, but I've chosen not to be involved. My 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: guest his former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rogers, who teaches at 8 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: Columbia Law School. So chief law enforcement officer is the 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: designation usually given to the U. S. Attorney General. Can 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Trump claim that title as president? I don't think so. 11 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: I mean he's not a law enforcement officer at all. 12 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean he's the head of the executive branch, of course. 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: And you know, it is true to say that there's 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: no legal barrier to him presiding over and involving himself 15 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: in the Department of Justice's work. But that's not the 16 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: same ing is saying he's the chief law enforcement officer, 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: which suggests that he actually has not just the authority, 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: but a reason to do that, Like he's supposed to 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: be involving himself in those matters. He said this after 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: he granted clemency in several politically charged cases without going 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: through the established pardon process. What do you see this as. 22 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: Is it chump flouting his authority? Is it trumps setting 23 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: up future pardons for friends or something else? Well, I 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: think it's both of those things. I mean, you know, 25 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: some of the people pardoned or granted a commutation yesterday 26 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: did have relationships with him. I mean Rod Blagoyevitch, for example, 27 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: was on Celebrity Apprentice with him years ago. So it's 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: certainly some of that. But I think it's also the 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: first point you make, which is, I don't care about 30 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: how things are supposed to be done. I don't care 31 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: about the men and women of the Justice Apartment who 32 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: worked so hard on these cases and who in the 33 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: normal pardon process would give me the benefit of all 34 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: of their wisdom about these cases. I'm just going to 35 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: do whatever I want to do, and guess what, no 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: one can do anything about it. I mean, that's a 37 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: big part of the message here, that he's not only 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: flouting the regular kind of established procedures, but you know, 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: kind of thumbing his nose at all of us in 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: a way, there's nothing we can do to stop it. Well. 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: He also, contrary to the stated preferences of Attorney General 42 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: William Barr, he continued his tweets about the Roger Stone 43 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: case and denigrated the judge in that case. You have 44 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: to wonder where he's going with that. Yeah, I mean 45 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: this is also part of a pattern. He has been 46 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: denigrating judges since he was a candidate. Um. You know, 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: remember what he said about the judge who had part 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: of the fraud case against his Trump University. Um. So, 49 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: you know this is part of the pattern for him. 50 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: And and again it's you know, I can do what 51 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: I want. No one can stop me, not even you know, 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: I'm not even considering off limits another branch of government. 53 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: You know, he'll go ahead and denigrate judges and challenge them. 54 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: And of course the judiciary is uh, you know, a 55 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: separate and coequal branch of government. So that's part of 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: his pattern as well. I don't think that Judge Amie 57 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: Berman Jackson is or will be intimidated or swayed at 58 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: all by what the president is saying. Um, So it 59 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: won't have that particular impact. But again it's part of 60 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: him telling the rest of us. You know, I'm I 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: can do whatever I want. I'm uncontrollable, and he's going 62 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: to continue to be that way. I think what does 63 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: this do to the career prosecutors at the Justice Department, 64 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: his commenting on cases and judges and granting clemency without 65 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: going through the process. Have you talked to colleagues in 66 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: the Justice Department to see where they're at. Yeah, it's 67 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: really demoralizing for people at the Justice Department. Um. I mean, 68 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: I've certainly spoken with many former colleagues of mine. Uh, 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: And I know also that people still in the department 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: are just very concerned about what's going on. You know, 71 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: they are taught from day one, we all were that 72 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: your job is to do the right thing. It is 73 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: an a political job. You don't take those issues into account, 74 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: and you're not supposed to do favors for people, you know, 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: friends of people in power, just like you're not supposed 76 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: to go after the political enemies of the people in power. 77 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: And so to see the President urging those things that 78 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: are so contrary to a fair administration of justice, as 79 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: all people in the justice departments where to uphold is 80 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: really concerning. And so I think that the department is 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: really reeling right now, which is part of the reason 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: that Bill Barr was I think trying to calm people 83 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 1: down with the statements that he made the other day. 84 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 1: There are also rumors is that Bill Barr was going 85 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: to resign as Attorney General. Of course, the department spokeswoman 86 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: said he has no plans to resign. Were those rumors 87 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: possibly aimed at an audience of one President Trump. I 88 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: have no idea, you know, whether that was aimed at 89 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: at Trump to push back on him a little bit, 90 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: or aimed at the men and women in the department 91 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: to say, don't worry, I take this very seriously, and 92 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm ready to resign if you know, our independence and 93 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: our ability to do our jobs continues to be meddled 94 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: with by the president. Um. But I also take those 95 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: statements or the rumors of those statements with an entire 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: shaker full assault, because you know, it seems to me 97 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: that Bill Barr has been doing exactly what he has 98 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: wanted to do in terms of increasing executive power at 99 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: the expense of his own department since he came into 100 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: the job. So the notion that as successful as he's 101 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: been seeking, really exactly these results that he's working on now. 102 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: You know that he would resign now seems to me 103 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: far fetched. Jennifer, what do you make of A. G. 104 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: Barr's interview where he said the president's tweeting was making 105 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: his job more difficult. Was that supposed to be for 106 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: the president or for the prosecutors and staff at the 107 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: Justice Department? Yeah, I think that's for all of us, 108 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: the public and the Justice the primary people. I mean, 109 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: he can speak to the president one on one at 110 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: any time. You know, if he really is sending a 111 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: message to the president, he can give that message to 112 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: the president. It seems to me what he's doing is saying, 113 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, hey, guys, say, Mr President, you're making things 114 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: harder for me to do what I'm trying to do, 115 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: which is to give you more power. Not so much 116 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: that he's uh, you know, actually trying to push back 117 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: on him. And I think it was a way for 118 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: him to try to say to his troops, don't worry, 119 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: I'm sticking up for you, because you know, there's just 120 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: a lot of dismay and concern in the department right now. 121 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: But at the same time, he has a group of 122 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: lawyers overseeing and second guessing the work of career attorneys 123 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: in certain cases like the Michael Flynn case. Yeah, exactly. 124 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: And the Michael Flynn case is so notable, not only 125 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: because he's, of course one of the prosecutions to come 126 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: out of the Muller investigation to this day a staunch 127 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: defender of the president, so when the President is in 128 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: return defending, but it's a case where he pled guilty 129 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: and made emotion to the judge saying, you know, the 130 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: FBI didn't treat me fairly. I was in traps. The prosecutors, 131 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, committed misconduct, and the judge rejected those claims 132 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: on the merits. So there is literally nothing that a 133 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: new prosecutor should be going and looking at in this case. 134 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: There's nothing concerning about this case where the completed guilty 135 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: and a judge already rejected these kinds of arguments. So 136 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: putting a prosecutor into look at that really just smacks 137 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: of either just doing it for the President because he 138 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: asked for it, or trying to undermine what looks like 139 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: a completely legitimate verdict gained by career Justice Department lawyers. Also, 140 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: before he intervened in the Roger Stone sentencing, he intervened 141 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: in the Michael Flynn sentencing, the prosecutors initially had asked 142 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: for zero to six months, and then they changed that 143 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: to probation. Yeah. I mean, the prosecutors in almost all 144 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: cases that don't involve a cooperating witness are going to 145 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: ask for a guideline sentence. That's what the guidelines are 146 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: there for to try to help, you know, judges pinpoint 147 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: the appropriate sentence, and Department lawyers almost always asked for 148 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: that sentence, and that's why they asked for zero to 149 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: six months, which is the guidelines range in Michael Flynn. 150 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: To do something different from that in a case where 151 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: someone tried to cooperate and then turned out to be 152 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: a failed cooperator and then started litigating everything, including trying 153 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: to withdraw a plea, makes no sense. It's just like 154 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: the Roger Stone case. They asked for a guideline sentence 155 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: and then back off it for a defendant who not 156 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: only instructed justice and tampered with witnesses, but had to 157 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: be gagged during the trial and threatened the judge. I mean, 158 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: these are not the sort of defendants that the Justice 159 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: Department typically does or should ask for below guideline sentence. 160 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: For let's talk a little bit more about the Roger 161 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: Stone case. He had a motion for a new trial 162 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: that relied on the allegation that one of the jurors 163 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: who worked at the i r S was biased against him. 164 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: So now he has another motion for a new trial 165 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: based on the jury for a woman and her social 166 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: media posts. Her social media posts might be one thing, 167 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: but what she said in her questionnaire might be more telling. Yeah, 168 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: I mean, the the motion itself is sealed, and so 169 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: we don't yet know the details of what the allegations are. 170 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: So it's hard to tell. If she lied in a 171 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: meaningful way during voadir then that could be a problem. 172 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: And that's the sort of thing. If she can be, 173 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: you know, proven to have lied about something important, um, 174 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: then that could be a problem. We just don't know 175 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: enough yet. UM. I will say that the parties questioned her. 176 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: They knew who she was, that she had run as 177 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: a Democratic candidate, that she had a social media presence, 178 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: and they asked her some questions and ultimately Roger Stone 179 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 1: didn't challenge her at all, either for cause or by 180 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: using one of his peremptory challenges. Um. But we just 181 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: don't know quite enough yet. UM. But you know, this 182 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: is typical. I mean, he's going to challenge this every 183 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: way he can, and I think his ultimate goal here 184 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: is just to push this out as far as possible 185 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: so that he doesn't have to surrender to prison before 186 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: the election, because you know, I think he's expecting a pardon. 187 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: Um whether the President is willing to do it before 188 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: the election or not, I didn't think that he would, 189 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: but then yesterday's events made me think maybe he really will. 190 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: He doesn't care, but I think Roger Stone is just 191 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: trying to kick this can as far down the road 192 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: as possible so he doesn't have to actually have to 193 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: serve a day in prison. So at the sentencing tomorrow, 194 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: the judge could sort of grill Justice Department lawyers about 195 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: the decision making process and why it was overruled. But 196 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: is she likely to do that or Because in her 197 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: conference call yesterday she was very matter of fact and 198 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: didn't discuss the controversy, I think she will again not 199 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: raise it. You know, she um isn't going to delve 200 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: into internal Department of Justice issues, I think, and at 201 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: the end of the day it doesn't really matter to her. 202 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: I mean, the parties will make their recommendations their arguments. 203 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: If she finds those arguments persuasive, it may sway her 204 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: on what she's going to sentence roger Stone too, But 205 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: ultimately it's her decision, her call, and she sat through 206 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: that entire trial. She knows this case significantly better than 207 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: these two brands and new prosecutors who just came in 208 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: a few days ago to do the sentence thing, because 209 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: she actually sat through it. So she, I think, is 210 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: not going to kind of get involved in all of 211 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 1: that controversy. I think she's just going to sentence him 212 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: and move on. Also, a group representing the nation's federal 213 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: judges scheduled an emergency telephone conference to address the President's 214 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: tax on Judge Berman, have you ever heard anything like 215 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: that before? I haven't, You know, I don't know all 216 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: that much about the group, and of course we don't 217 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: yet know what the the results of any will be 218 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: of this emergency meeting they're convening, whether they will issue 219 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: some sort of statement or or what. But I do 220 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: think what's incredibly interesting is just the fact that they're 221 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: taking any action at all, that they've announced this emergency 222 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: meaning and this is active judges. You know, the prosecutor's 223 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: letter is all former prosecutors. These are actual sitting judges saying, effectively, 224 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: we are very concerned about what's going on in the 225 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: attacks on us. We are a third independent branch of 226 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: government and we have the president attacking us like there's 227 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: something wrong with this. And you know, the chief judge 228 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: of Judge Amy Burman Jackson's district also came out and 229 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: made a statement about how the judges in that district, 230 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: of course, decide each case on its facts and are 231 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: not swayed by politics and so on, so that judge 232 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: felt the need to defend Judge Berman Jackson against attacks 233 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: from the president. So I mean, people are very very 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: concerned about this behavior, and what's heartening is that they're 235 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: speaking up about it. Thanks Jennifer. That's former federal prosecutor 236 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 1: Jennifer Rogers of Columbia Law School.