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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Governor Greg Abbott is in Asia

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Speaker 1: while a hurricane pummells Texas shades of Ted Cruz. We

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Speaker 1: have a great show for you today, Democracy dockets, Mark Elias,

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Speaker 1: Factcheck's Republican claims that Democrats can't nominate a different candidate,

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Speaker 1: and all the other things they're doing to try to

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Speaker 1: undermine democracy. Then we'll talk to Semaphore's Dave Wigel about

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Speaker 1: the lessons from twenty sixteen that are coming back to

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Speaker 1: haunt all of us in twenty twenty four. But first

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Speaker 1: we have the author of the Undertow scenes from a

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Speaker 1: Slow Civil War as well as his amazing Substack newsletter,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Charlotte. Welcome back to Fast Politics. Jeff Charlotte, thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Hi, MOLLI good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: So, Jeff, I wanted to have you on because all

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Speaker 1: the time what we cover effects may and Jesse and

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Speaker 1: I just did this YouTube series which is coming out

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Speaker 1: very soon everyone on Project twenty twenty five, and we

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Speaker 1: interviewed all these academics and we started talking about what

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Speaker 1: it looks like when fascism comes to America. You have

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Speaker 1: written so well about this, I wanted to talk about this.

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Speaker 1: So I wrote this column about my grandfather because my

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Speaker 1: brother and I were talking on the phone. I live

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Speaker 1: in a lot of anxiety about if Trump wins. And

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Speaker 1: my brother said, well, you know, it could actually be

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Speaker 1: great for your career. And he said, you know, Grandpa

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Speaker 1: was never that famous until he went to jail. So

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we could talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: that time and what it looked like McCarthyism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that's such a valuable column. Your grandfather,

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Speaker 2: Howard Fast too. Some readers may know and some may not.

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Speaker 2: People probably known Spartacus and so on. But what's so

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Speaker 2: fascinating about that, And I think this is important for

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Speaker 2: us to recognize in the current moment, is it wasn't

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Speaker 2: that when he went to jail or I wrote about

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Speaker 2: him in my book about.

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Speaker 1: Talk about what you wrote about too, because that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, in nineteen forty nine, Paul Robeson, the Great Singer,

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Speaker 2: was going to do a free concert along the river

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Speaker 2: in Peakskill, New York, and the townspeople he was.

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Speaker 1: Most famous for playing a fellow, and he was a

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Speaker 1: civil rights hero. He was a little bit like Sidney Potier,

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Speaker 1: but he ultimately was lost to history because he was

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Speaker 1: a communist.

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Speaker 2: He was a communist at the Russia loving Negro baritone,

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Speaker 2: as the headline of the local newspaper put it, organizing

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Speaker 2: the crowd and rally. And so they came out. The

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Speaker 2: local veterans clubs came out, one hundred strong, backed by

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Speaker 2: the police, to violently attack the concert. Your grandfather bravely

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Speaker 2: attempted to hold the line, although they were backed right

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Speaker 2: up to the stage. And that, to me, though, is

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Speaker 2: such an example of what gets lost sometimes when we

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Speaker 2: talk only about the national scale of Project twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: your grandfather, but no one was sort of saying, get

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Speaker 2: Howard Fast. The way fascism works is it happens locally.

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Speaker 2: It happens Veterans organization and Peace Skill New York decides

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Speaker 2: they're going to hurt people. A particular politician comes upon

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Speaker 2: a particular writer, a journalist, and says, this one gets me.

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Speaker 2: Fascism comes for everybody, and it is irregular. It is

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Speaker 2: hard to predict. And I think your column is really

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Speaker 2: valuable in that because I think a lot of liberals

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Speaker 2: and leftists they want to sort of put this in

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Speaker 2: a neat system. Well, first they're going to come for

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Speaker 2: the trans folks, then they're going to come from the

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Speaker 2: people of color. And there's some structural truth to that,

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Speaker 2: But fascism happens as an explosion. The revenge that Trump

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Speaker 2: has promised is going to trickle down to all the

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Speaker 2: millions of little Trumps in your local school board, at

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Speaker 2: your workplace, and revenge is going to come by surprise

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Speaker 2: in many different places at once.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so important because this was like the Muzzlim band, right,

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Speaker 1: it was a fake war that Republicans hoped would help

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Speaker 1: them Galvin the base, right, It's the same idea. Russia

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Speaker 1: was the number one danger, even though they had recently

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Speaker 1: helped to win World War Two, they were now the

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Speaker 1: single biggest danger towards American life. And so these Republicans

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Speaker 1: decided that you could be a domestic enemy. And the

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Speaker 1: part about domestic enemy is in this November speech at

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Speaker 1: Trump gave, he talked about domestic enemies and that is

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Speaker 1: new for him. And I'm hoping you could talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about what that means domestic enemies.

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Speaker 2: Or the enemy within. I've been going to Trump rallies

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Speaker 2: since the beginning, and version was in twenty sixteen, early

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen in Youngstown, Ohio, and there's always been an

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Speaker 2: enemy within. And I mean, your calm is very important

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Speaker 2: because from the very beginning, one of the enemies within

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Speaker 2: were journalists. The way that you go to a Trump rally,

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Speaker 2: and if you go and agreed to go and participate

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Speaker 2: as the press, which I don't want to get my

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Speaker 2: tick in, I just wander in the crowd because I

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Speaker 2: don't want to be put in a metal pen in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the arena, at which point Trump will

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Speaker 2: turn and say, look at those scums, Look at those scum,

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Speaker 2: and the crowd turns on mass and to twin birds

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Speaker 2: in the air, find their fingers and screaming and so on.

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Speaker 2: And it's professional wrestling, it's showmanship. It's the performance of

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Speaker 2: an enemy that is hard to identify. And I think

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Speaker 2: sometimes we get stuck on the idea with the enemy within.

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Speaker 2: Beginning of the Trump administration, it was Muslims. It still Muslims,

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Speaker 2: but then it became quote illegals, it became trans folks.

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Speaker 2: The enemy of fascism is always mutating, and that's a

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Speaker 2: lesson we can learn back from the McCarthy period because

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Speaker 2: they were always detecting a new possible subject who could

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Speaker 2: be communists. And that's how communism worked too, because communism,

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Speaker 2: your school teacher could be a Communist, your neighbor could

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Speaker 2: be a Communist. Always be on the lookout. You know.

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Speaker 2: There's another parallel to that moment that I think about.

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Speaker 2: I wrote about your grandfather in this pitched riot, trying

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Speaker 2: to defend himself and others against massive mob backed up

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Speaker 2: by police. They tried to hold the concert again, by

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Speaker 2: the way, and even a crowd of five thousand kin

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Speaker 2: with New York State Police air power. They lent the

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Speaker 2: rioting mob a helicopter to try and kill Paul Robeson

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Speaker 2: and Pete seeger Woody Guthrie, your granddad. But when I

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Speaker 2: dug into who these riders were, these veterans, these were

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Speaker 2: a lot of this led by guys who had fought

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Speaker 2: in Europe and they had been traumatized. They were terrorist.

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Speaker 2: They didn't want any more trouble in their lives, and

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Speaker 2: so the fascist message they came to them that said,

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Speaker 2: attempts to improve the world, it's just more trouble it

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Speaker 2: seemed very alarm to them. Well, compare that to the

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Speaker 2: current moment, with the trauma of the pandemic not so

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Speaker 2: distant for us, and that helps us understand the appeal

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Speaker 2: of fascism. I'm going to shut up anything that reminds

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Speaker 2: me of that pain and suffering, and I need a

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Speaker 2: strong man who will bring the fists down hard quickly

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Speaker 2: on any reminder of the pain, which, by the way,

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Speaker 2: he was absolutely instrumental in causing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean so, I mean, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: laugh because there's nothing to laugh about it. It's just

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Speaker 1: deadly serious. But it is interesting to me that, you know,

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Speaker 1: had Donald Trump handled the pandemic a little better and

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Speaker 1: not made masks of partisan issue, he could have saved

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Speaker 1: maybe five hundred thousand, maybe seven hundred thousand of his

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Speaker 1: own people. I mean Red State Republicans lost their lives

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Speaker 1: because Donald Trump told them not to believe in science.

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Speaker 1: What happened here was very easily prevented. But somehow, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they see it that way, right.

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Speaker 2: I refer to this period that we're in now as

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Speaker 2: the Trump is seen, the age of Trump. That's true,

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Speaker 2: whether Trump is in power or not, he's shaping the

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Speaker 2: rhetoric the political record of a lives just the way

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Speaker 2: Reagan did. Rad Age historians will say the age of

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Speaker 2: Reagan went from nineteen eighty to twenty sixteen. Even Democrats

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Speaker 2: would friends ideas of what government could be according to Reagan,

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Speaker 2: who now we're in the Trump is scene and his

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Speaker 2: language creeps into ours. I'm not putting you on the spot,

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Speaker 2: but I know she just said his people. He could

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Speaker 2: have saved five hundred thousand of his people. He was

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Speaker 2: president of the United States, the worst one in American history.

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Speaker 2: But all of the people were supposed to be our people,

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Speaker 2: his people. And he's got us thinking in terms of

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Speaker 2: you know, he's already sort of started to split in

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Speaker 2: American life. The sharksplit in American life. But to that

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Speaker 2: point that there are those dead, and when I think

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Speaker 2: about people saying, well, because we're hearing this now, right,

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Speaker 2: we're hearing yeah, it would be bad, but he's not

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Speaker 2: really gonna do all that much. How bad would it be?

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Speaker 2: Half a million dead? A million dead bad? We want

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Speaker 2: to talk about genocidal killing and we must. Trump, I argue,

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Speaker 2: is responsible for a genocide scale death and a lot

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Speaker 2: of us knew that a while ago, and somehow it's

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Speaker 2: not in the rhetoric anymore. And I think this is

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Speaker 2: key to fighting fascism, something that comes from studying, you know,

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Speaker 2: the period of your grandfather and the ways in which

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Speaker 2: the left of that time succeeded, and let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: mostly failed. They were defeated, right, But then how they

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Speaker 2: took inventory of those defeats. And one of that was

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Speaker 2: if you don't mourn, if you don't acknowledge your losses,

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Speaker 2: if you don't say, hey, this this really hurts. I

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Speaker 2: got to think about that. I had this grief and

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Speaker 2: it can curdle into anger, which becomes fascism or I

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Speaker 2: feel too much Star Wars and you know Yoda's anger

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Speaker 2: because but there is some truth to that. The grief, unprocessed, unmourned,

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Speaker 2: becomes fascism. And I think that's a huge part. Like

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Speaker 2: when you go amongst Trump's I'm about to use his

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Speaker 2: language too, amongst Trump's people. Now you hear this sort

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Speaker 2: of you know the way I illustrate this, if you

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Speaker 2: think about climate change. We're not talking enough about Trump

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Speaker 2: and climate change and the death he could bring to us.

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Speaker 2: Ault you think about those Trump lovers who have those

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Speaker 2: big trucks. They're called coal rollers, and they don't just

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Speaker 2: burn a lot of gas, they'd burn an extra amount

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Speaker 2: of gas. These people would rather pay more to show

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Speaker 2: how much they don't believe in climate change. It reminds

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Speaker 2: me of an old story. Now you've really got me

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Speaker 2: thinking back on the thirties forties.

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Speaker 1: Well, no, because I really believe and I feel like

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Speaker 1: I'm the only person in the world who believes this.

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Speaker 1: But you know, history rhymes, and the fact that we

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Speaker 1: are dealing with this autocrat and we have had other

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Speaker 1: periods in American life when autocracy has reared its ugly head,

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Speaker 1: and we are not looking back to them for lessons. Instead,

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Speaker 1: we're treating this as if it's business as usual. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's really important. So any way, go on.

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Speaker 1: That's enough for me.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, the guys in the coal

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Speaker 2: rollers reminds me. There used to be something called the

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Speaker 2: Yiddish anarchist ball. These were anarchists, our early twentieth century

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Speaker 2: radical Jews. They spoke Yiddish and on Young Kipper they

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Speaker 2: would have a feast, and not just a feast, they

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Speaker 2: would have a pig roast. It's a little bit like

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Speaker 2: shaking your fist and saying to God, see how much

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Speaker 2: I don't believe in you. So this is my grand

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Speaker 2: cold just saying see how much I don't believe in

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Speaker 2: climate change. That's a grief statement and it seems comic.

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Speaker 2: And the rhyming history, I think sometimes we miss it

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Speaker 2: because it seems like, well the way it was actually

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Speaker 2: is the first time tragedy and second time farst. This

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Speaker 2: is a forest, this is a fool, this is funny.

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Speaker 2: We've got the funny videos of the guys at Trump

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Speaker 2: rallies and so on, first the fares, then the fist.

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Speaker 2: As I think, how we best understand fascism and when

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Speaker 2: would go back and look at look at that history,

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Speaker 2: we realize that always fascism is derided and thought buffoonish

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Speaker 2: and clownish at first. So our funny videos are not

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Speaker 2: going to save us arm in arm and trying to

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Speaker 2: hold the line like your granddad. I'm hoping we can

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Speaker 2: sell some of Howard's fast books in this podcast.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know what's interesting about my grandfather, I

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Speaker 1: think was he grew up very poor with an immigrant

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Speaker 1: father and a dead mother. You know, he said to me,

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Speaker 1: the reason he became a writer was A he needed

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Speaker 1: money and B he was in the lot. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was no place for him to go. So he

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Speaker 1: went to the library and he read books because the

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Speaker 1: library was free. And then he started writing his stories.

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Speaker 1: And he started writing when he was sixteen, and he

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Speaker 1: never stopped because you know, that was the way he

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Speaker 1: processed the world. And I think a lot about why

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Speaker 1: he fought for people who had less, because at the

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Speaker 1: end he was quite successful. And the reality is is

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Speaker 1: because this is what we are doing on this planet.

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Speaker 1: You know, why even exist if we're not here to

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Speaker 1: make it better for others. And I just appreciate what

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Speaker 1: he did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's two warnings. There's two more wantings in that story.

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Speaker 2: Look at that he became a writer to make money

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Speaker 2: and at this point we could fall. But also and

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Speaker 2: then he went to the library. Let's talk about that project.

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Speaker 2: Twenty twenty five, we're talking about the big headline items.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the national assault on libraries. The American

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Speaker 2: Library Association just had a meeting in San Diego, and

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Speaker 2: you know, they're trying to figure out what is going

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Speaker 2: on and who is going to come to their aid.

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Speaker 2: You know, we lost track of that habit of armed men,

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Speaker 2: you know, whether they're oathkeepers or proud boys, or guns

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Speaker 2: or whatever, lining up outside libraries during a story hour.

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Speaker 2: Very very very reminiscent of the nineteen thirties nineteen forties

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Speaker 2: period of right wing action, the kind of stuff that

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Speaker 2: we were just talking about. When we look at book banning,

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Speaker 2: one of the lessons that I would want us to

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Speaker 2: pay attention to is again, fascism is not always going

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Speaker 2: to come announcing itself clearly, so we see all these

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Speaker 2: attempts at book bans. I attended a session with one

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Speaker 2: of Texas's leading book banners last fall, and she was

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Speaker 2: explaining she had this was a PowerPoint for others on

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Speaker 2: how to do book bans, the formal book challenge. The

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Speaker 2: formal book challenge. He said, that's a distraction that gets

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Speaker 2: the local liberals all worked up. Where's the real action.

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Speaker 2: She had a little slide show, so maybe they challenge

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Speaker 2: a book like Alison Bechdeal's Great Fun Move, a queer

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Speaker 2: memoir the Town, and they defend the book, and hooray,

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Speaker 2: we held the line. And then she says, now here's

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Speaker 2: a picture three months later of the library that the

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Speaker 2: library and censored because the library and is scared, scared

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Speaker 2: for their livelihood, scared for their safety in that community.

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Speaker 2: They said, I got the book out of the library.

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Speaker 2: I just removed. I did it quietly after the storm

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Speaker 2: had passed. He says, that's what we're doing. She says,

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Speaker 2: the books that were removing, a lot of them are

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Speaker 2: not in the official band. And I think about that,

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Speaker 2: your grandfather going to the library. I had a young

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Speaker 2: student I teach fun Home House in Bechdel's fun Home

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Speaker 2: to young writing students.

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Speaker 1: You teach at dart mess Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a queer kid from Oklahoma. And this book blew

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Speaker 2: their mind. And they said, if I had found this

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Speaker 2: in my high school library when I was coming out

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Speaker 2: to myself, this would have changed my life. But it

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Speaker 2: wasn't in that library. Couldn't be in that library. And

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Speaker 2: I said, well, let me, wasn't name your high school.

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Speaker 2: I'll send them a copy, And I wrote, they can't

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Speaker 2: accept copy. The library would love a copy. They can't

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Speaker 2: have that the way folks of the past, special people

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Speaker 2: without the money, the bid books that themselves free. That's

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Speaker 2: being constricted, that's being constricted to the front line of fascism.

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Speaker 2: Project twenty five it's national abortion laws, it's round them

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Speaker 2: up undocumented camps. But it's also your local library, your

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Speaker 2: little local library. Yep.

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Speaker 1: And that's the goal. I want you to talk about

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Speaker 1: the thousand points sort of people doing Trumpism themselves. So

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Speaker 1: like one of the things that Timothy Schneider writes about

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Speaker 1: in his book, this brilliant little book he did on

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Speaker 1: how to Resist Fascism, I can't remember the title now,

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Speaker 1: but he says, don't censor yourself in advance. It's something

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Speaker 1: like that. Can you explain to us why that's important.

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Speaker 2: You and I were talking about this before. The idea

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Speaker 2: that we know that the majority of the American people,

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Speaker 2: the majority of humans in all the world and all

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Speaker 2: the countries that are under siege from this global fascism,

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Speaker 2: they don't want fascism, they don't want these ideas. But

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Speaker 2: the sad truth is we also know from history is

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Speaker 2: that the majority will acquiesce, the majority will accept it.

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Speaker 2: The majority will say, you know, wisdom, I better lay low,

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Speaker 2: I'd better not stay. Oh that's the well. They're really

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Speaker 2: beating up my coworker. They're maybe physically, but also maybe

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Speaker 2: false charges. The kind of investigations that you write about

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Speaker 2: the hospitel has talked about will become standard in the

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Speaker 2: new regime. That's acquiescence. And so don't fool yourself if

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Speaker 2: you're sitting out there and saying, well, no, no, I'm

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Speaker 2: not accepting fascist. I'm keeping my powder dry. I'm staying wise.

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Speaker 2: You hold the line. You hold the line at each step,

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Speaker 2: and if you have to retreat, you do so because

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Speaker 2: you have to, not because you've decided that. I'll just

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Speaker 2: cleverly go hide here in the weeds until the stormtroopers pass.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Charlotte, I hope you'll come back.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Spring is here, and I bet you are trying to

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Speaker 1: look fashionable. So why not pick up some fashionable all

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Speaker 1: new politics merchandise. We just opened a news store with

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Speaker 1: all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats,

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Speaker 1: and top bags. To grab some head to fastpolitics dot com.

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Speaker 1: Mark Elias is the founder of Democracy Docket. Welcome back, Mark.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm delighted. So the first thing I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you is, because you are like all things voter law,

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Speaker 1: I want you to explain to us if it did happen,

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Speaker 1: if Biden did drop out of the race. Code Republicans

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Speaker 1: because I've seen articles that say maybe they could try

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Speaker 1: to keep a Democrat from getting on the ballot in

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Speaker 1: certain states, or is there like really an okay path

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Speaker 1: for a candidate that is not Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so look, I'm going to stay clear of the

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Speaker 4: you know, the politics around this. What I can tell

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Speaker 4: you is this that Republicans are are unsurprisingly not telling

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Speaker 4: the truth that they can get somehow they can stop

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Speaker 4: the Democratic Party from nominating the candidate they decide to nominate.

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Speaker 2: The fact is that there won't be an.

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Speaker 4: Official general election candidate or the Democratic Party until the delegates.

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Speaker 2: Vote on who that is. So right now, neither.

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump nor Joe Biden are the candidates of their

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Speaker 4: parties for the general election. That is why we have conventions,

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Speaker 4: right the convention That is why you know, in a

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Speaker 4: normal year, we usually refer to it as the presumptive

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Speaker 4: nominee of the party. And the reason why they're the

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Speaker 4: presumptive nominee is that they don't actually become the nominee

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Speaker 4: until after the convention.

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Speaker 2: Is done doing its business, whether that is done in

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Speaker 2: person or virtually, as we've seen in past years and

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Speaker 2: maybe the case this year in the Democratic Party. At

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Speaker 2: that point, there is.

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Speaker 4: A nominee and that name gets forwarded onto all fifty

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Speaker 4: states plus the District of Columbia, and that person would

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Speaker 4: then get automatic ballot access as the Democrat as a

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Speaker 4: major party candidate in all those states.

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Speaker 1: But it is different for RFK Junior, as he is

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Speaker 1: not from a major party. Can you just explain them?

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Speaker 4: That is I think where the Republicans are purposely confusing things.

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Speaker 4: And you think purposely because I think the Republicans, you know,

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Speaker 4: are never interested in spreading good information. They always want

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Speaker 4: to spread bad information. But the reason why it's different

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Speaker 4: for whether it's RFK or Cornell West or whomever, is

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Speaker 4: that they do not enjoy major party status. So basically,

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Speaker 4: the states break ballot access into three categories. You have

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Speaker 4: parties that historically have achieved a certain threshold of the vote,

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Speaker 4: and those are the major parties, and their candidates automatically

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Speaker 4: get put on one election after the next. That is

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Speaker 4: the Democratic Party and the Republican Party in every state.

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Speaker 4: In some states it is also the Libertarian Party or

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Speaker 4: the Green Party. In New York it may be the

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Speaker 4: Conservative Party and the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 1: Or the Working Families Party.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so that's category one. Category two are what

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Speaker 4: some states refer to as minor parties. These are parties

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Speaker 4: that have not historically met this threshold, but they are

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Speaker 4: sort of of it as like farm team parties, and

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Speaker 4: they usually have a somewhat harder process to get on it.

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Speaker 4: And then finally there are just random people running who

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Speaker 4: it as part of any party, and they typically in

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Speaker 4: most states have the hardest time to get on because

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Speaker 4: if you think about it, if you're a state, you

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Speaker 4: don't want just everyone to be able to submit their

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Speaker 4: name and say we want to be on the ballot.

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Speaker 4: You'd have ballots that went on for pages and pages

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Speaker 4: and pages. So that's why it's different for RFK or

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Speaker 4: for Cornos that it even would be for for example,

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Speaker 4: Jill Stein, he's running as the Green Party candidate, right

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Speaker 4: that is sort of more established.

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Speaker 2: But not that not a major party in most places.

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Speaker 1: Now are Republicans right now making it harder to vote.

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Speaker 1: So yesterday they tried to pass a bell it's never

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Speaker 1: going to go anywhere in the House where the idea

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Speaker 1: is that non citizens can't vote, which of course we

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Speaker 1: all know is bullshit because non citizens cannot vote, so

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Speaker 1: they're fixing something that doesn't need to be fixed. But

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Speaker 1: I wondered if they were doing that in the hopes

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Speaker 1: of opening the door to different voter roll purchase. And

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Speaker 1: I was hoping you could talk about that, because when

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Speaker 1: I heard them talking about it, I thought, well, there's

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Speaker 1: only one reason this is.

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Speaker 4: Happening, yes, right, So I think there are actually two

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Speaker 4: reasons that's happening. So, first of all, to your point,

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Speaker 4: there's already a federal law that prohibits non citizens from voting,

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Speaker 4: So congratulations, Congress. There is a law that says that

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Speaker 4: non citizens can't vote in federal elections. And there's also

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Speaker 4: no history of non citizens voting in federals of any

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Speaker 4: significant number.

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Speaker 2: That's number one. But there are two reasons they're doing so.

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Speaker 4: The first is, I do think there is a part

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Speaker 4: of this that is just pure demagoguery.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: They are demonizing immigrants through every possible vehicle, and so

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Speaker 2: this sort of gets nicely in that it allows them

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Speaker 2: to demonize immigrants in yet another way, or migrants in

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Speaker 2: another way that kind of fits with their overall message.

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Speaker 2: But on the voter suppression front, the reason why they're

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Speaker 2: doing it is because what they're actually trying to say

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Speaker 2: is that you have to prove you are a citizen

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Speaker 2: in order to register to vote. And so I'd ask

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Speaker 2: how many people in the in the in the audience,

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Speaker 2: how many of them have a.

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Speaker 4: Passport handy right? How many of them have their birth certificate?

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Speaker 2: Handy right?

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Speaker 4: Because there aren't a lot of ways to prove that

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Speaker 4: you are a US citizen other than a US passport

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Speaker 4: or a birth certificate. So what it will actually do

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Speaker 4: is prevent lots and lots of lawful voters, lots and

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Speaker 4: lots of US citizens from being able to vote, by

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Speaker 4: putting up obstacles to prove citizenship, which, if you think

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00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 4: about it, you know, Molly, if I said to you,

434
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 4: can you show me voter ID, you'd say, sure, I

435
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 4: have the driver's license. I can show you know, a

436
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 4: work idea government ID. Well, none of those prove citizenship.

437
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 4: If I asked you, can you prove that you were

438
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 4: born in Stanford, Connecticut? Like I mean, you weren't cognizant,

439
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 4: you don't like, how would you prove it?

440
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: Right? You'd have to have a bircher to good or

441
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 2: a passport right.

442
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: And remember that the people who get passports tend to

443
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: be affluent people who go to Europe or go to

444
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, travel internationally, and they tend not to be

445
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: poor people who can't write. Like what percentage of Americans

446
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: have never been on an airplane, let alone to Europe.

447
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: So it is actually meant to punish poor people, right, it.

448
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: Is poor people.

449
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 4: And also, and I think this is not to be overlooked,

450
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,479
Speaker 4: punish young people. A lot of these voter suppression laws

451
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 4: are really targeting first time voters or young voters.

452
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 2: And the reason why is think about it.

453
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 4: You know, when I was coming of age and building

454
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 4: a law practice and everything, I actually did have a

455
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 4: need for my birth certificate.

456
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 2: Right. This was like before the Internet age, you know,

457
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 2: and people would need to know. You'd need to be

458
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 2: able to for various things, you know, be able to

459
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: prove who you were, and like a birth certificate was

460
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 2: really relevant. A young person that doesn't really have the

461
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 2: same need for per certificate. There are a myriad of ways.

462
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 4: They could show a cable bill, you know, they could

463
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 4: show a utility bill. They can show a student ID.

464
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 4: I mean, when I was in college, I don't even

465
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 4: if we had student id's. We did, they were probably

466
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 4: written on paper, right, so that it is harder. Fewer

467
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 4: young people tend to have these sort of critical family

468
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 4: documents that older people. And of course when it comes

469
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 4: to passports, you know, just older people are more affluent,

470
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 4: they're also just more likely to have the free time

471
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: to travel internationally relative to young people, so that the

472
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 4: older people tend to have passports or diar rates.

473
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: It's so interesting because it really is such a setup

474
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 1: for Republicans making it harder for people to vote, which

475
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: of course has always been the goal. Here we're in

476
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: this run up to the twenty twenty for election. What

477
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: are the things you're seeing that they're doing.

478
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, look, I think you've hit half of it,

479
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 4: and I want to focus on the other half, which

480
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 4: is that they want to make it harder of an

481
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 4: easier cheat. And you know, let's not look past the

482
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 4: easier to cheat part, because what Donald Trump did after

483
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 4: twenty twenty, after November was tried to cheat. First, he

484
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 4: tried to cheat in the courts when he couldn't cheat

485
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 4: in the courts. He tried to get Brad Rosenberger and

486
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 4: others to cheat in the vote count. When he couldn't

487
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: cheat in the vote count. He inspired a violent insurrection

488
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 4: in the nation's capital right, which was an effort to

489
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: cheat on the results. So we have to always keep

490
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 4: in mind that, as distracted as we may be by

491
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 4: other political events going on in the day, the Republicans

492
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 4: are continuing their march towards making it harder easier to cheat.

493
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 4: And we are seeing, you know, as we are recording this,

494
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 4: the state of Nevada is in court suing Washaw County,

495
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 4: which is the second largest county in the state. This

496
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 4: is Reno, This is a swing county suing them because

497
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: the Republicans on the canvassing board there are refusing to

498
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 4: certify the election results in two local elections. Why are

499
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 4: they refusing to certify elections in the local elections? These

500
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 4: are dry runs for what they plan on doing this fall,

501
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 4: which is to refuse to acknowledge that Joe Biden and

502
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 4: the Democratic candidates up and down the ballot have won

503
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 4: the election and refuse to certify fill out the paperwork necessary.

504
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 4: There is a rule, a lawsuit in Georgia that Republicans

505
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: have brought to try to make this law in Georgia.

506
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 4: There's a proposed rule in Georgia to try to make

507
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 4: this The rule in Georgia there is litigation in Arizona

508
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 4: that Republicans have brought to try to facilitate this, and

509
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 4: we saw this after twenty twenty two by law firm

510
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 4: and I we had to suit Coache's County Arizona. We

511
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: had to sue a couple of counties in Pennsylvania because

512
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 4: the Republicans are refusing to certify accurate election results. And

513
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 4: what I'm afraid, Molly, is that people right now are

514
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: so caught up in the moment, and they are so

515
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 4: caught up in the day to day politics that we

516
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 4: will wake up the day after the election and people

517
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 4: will be like, oh my god, you know what happened here?

518
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 4: The Republicans are not certifying elections across the country. And

519
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 4: my message is now is the time to focus on this,

520
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 4: because the day after the election it's really hard to

521
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 4: focus on this.

522
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 2: Now is the time to focus.

523
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: On Explain to us who are the people who certify elections?

524
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: How can this be focused on right now?

525
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

526
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 4: So this is really really important. So after the voting

527
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: is done and begins what I call the pageantry of democracy, right,

528
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 4: so you have the typically you know, older people who

529
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 4: work the polls, and they are Democrats and Republicans working together,

530
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 4: and at the end of the night they shake hands

531
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 4: and say good job, and they call in or send

532
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: in the election returns from their local precinct to.

533
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 2: A town or to a county.

534
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 4: Those town and county officials then collect those results and

535
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 4: they put that on their website and they shake hands

536
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 4: and congratulate themselves. Then typically the next day or the

537
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 4: day after, what's called a canvassing board meets, and this

538
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 4: is now the formal meeting of the county or the

539
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 4: town on a bipartisan basis, to celebrate democracy, to say

540
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 4: job well done, we have gotten these results. And essentially

541
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 4: what they do is they simply tabulate the numbers that

542
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 4: they've been given and put a seal and a stamp

543
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 4: and their signatures on a big piece of paper, and

544
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 4: they celebrate democracy. Those certificates then go to the state,

545
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: and the state again on a bipartisan basis Democrats and Republicans,

546
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: they hold the ceremony where they tally up the results

547
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 4: from all the counties, put it in a big spreadsheet,

548
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 4: put a big calligraphy certificate, they put a stamp on

549
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 4: it and sign it and celebrate democracy. Then that goes

550
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 4: to the governor and the Secretary of State, and they

551
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 4: put it on a huge certificate, lots of calligraphy, and

552
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 4: a big ceremony where the governor signs it. Those certificates

553
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,360
Speaker 4: then in the case of presidential elections, go to the

554
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 4: floor of Congress in wooden boxes and those get opened

555
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 4: on January sixth and the end of the pageantry of democracy. Well,

556
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 4: think about it, Molly, we're fucked.

557
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: I'm listening to you, and at every point I'm they.

558
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: Were fucked, right, because think about it. In today's day

559
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: and age, you actually don't need any of that, right,

560
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: Like Excel spreadsheets could do all of that, Like there

561
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: actually isn't a need for it. But the value of

562
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: it is historically that it is a way that we

563
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: show that whoever whichever candidate went or lost, is less

564
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: important than the fact that democracy worked, and it is

565
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: a celebration of democracy. Well, what Republicans are doing is

566
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: they are weaponizing it. They have seen that this is

567
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 2: a weak point.

568
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: So what they are doing is they are appointing people

569
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 4: to the boards of these ministerial acts, the people who

570
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 4: do nothing but put the stamps and sign them. They

571
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: are arguing that those people should be able to exercise

572
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 4: their own judgment of their own content and not sign

573
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 4: the certificates if they don't believe that they're accurate. And

574
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 4: that is what we saw Donald Trunk do when he

575
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 4: called the canvasson board in Wayne County with Ronald McDaniel

576
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: in the aftermath of twenty and in Michigan, and it failed.

577
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 4: And that's what we had to sue them over in

578
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two in Coachi's County because they were refusing

579
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 4: to certify. And here's the really terrible news, Molly is

580
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: states can't partially certify states.

581
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: Right.

582
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: You can't be like, well, we have the results from

583
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 4: most of the counties, we just don't have them from

584
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 4: all the counties, right, so it becomes a fight for

585
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 4: the lowest common denominator of election. And I are crazy.

586
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 4: And so what we need everyone to do today? And

587
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: I write about this on Democracy Docket constantly, but everyone

588
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 4: needs to be finding out who and their local community

589
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 4: are on these boards and they need to be publicizing

590
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 4: and then and calling out and making holding those people

591
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: accountable to do the right thing for their communities, not

592
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 4: to do the right thing for the Magat movement.

593
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: How does the Supreme Court and these enormous decisions. You know,

594
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: they've given a lot of power to the executive So

595
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: I'm hoping you could talk about that.

596
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So look, I think there is no putting sugarcoating.

597
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 4: The Supreme Court did the bidding of Donald Trump at

598
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 4: the end of this term, and frankly, they did the

599
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 4: bidding witting or unwitting of Project twenty twenty five at

600
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 4: the end of this term. Let's review what we saw. First,

601
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: we saw the Supreme Court say that Colorado couldn't kick

602
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 4: Donald Trump off the ballot, and I was sending the

603
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: plain text to the Fourteenth Amendment because they set soup.

604
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 4: Then we saw the Supreme Court actually throw out and

605
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 4: narrow the tool throw out some criminal charges and narrow

606
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 4: the tools the DOJ has available to prosecute January sixth insurrectionists.

607
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: Then we saw the Supreme Court in the lower case

608
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 4: cut back on agency expertise difference. Right, when we talk

609
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 4: about agency difference, we're not really capturing it. The reason

610
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 4: why we have been giving deference to agencies is because

611
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 4: agencies have an expert piece in what they governed. And

612
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 4: then finally we saw them give near complete immunity to

613
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, not just for his past criminal conduct. But

614
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 4: if he gets office for the past. Now, why do

615
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: I tie all of those together? Because for Donald Trump

616
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 4: to be a dictator for a day, and let's stipulate

617
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 4: no one wants to be a dictator for a day,

618
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 4: For him to be a dictator for a day, he

619
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: needs to feel like he cannot be held accountable check.

620
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 4: The people who work for him need to feel like

621
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: they won't be held accountable check, and they need to

622
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: feel like they can run rough shot over the executive branch,

623
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 4: that they can essentially dictate who gets prosecuted, dictate what

624
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 4: laws get enforced, what laws don't get it forced, fire

625
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 4: civil servants, and replace some of their own cronies, and

626
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 4: that all of this can be done without anyone being

627
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: able to hold them accountable. Well, what have I just

628
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 4: described Project twenty twenty five right? Project twenty twenty five

629
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 4: is fundamentally a powergram.

630
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: Right.

631
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 4: It has bad policies in it, don't get me wrong.

632
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 4: It talks about banning abortion and other stuff. But I

633
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 4: think that that is secondary to what Project twenty twenty

634
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 4: five is really about, which is creating an authoritarian regime.

635
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 4: Having Donald Trump have the ability to replace career experts

636
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: with his own cronies, direct who gets audited by the IRS,

637
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 4: who gets prosecuted, whose permits get granted and don't get

638
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 4: granted by the Bureau of Land Management, who is stopped

639
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 4: at the border by DHS, and who is let through right.

640
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 4: He is able to command all aspects of the federal

641
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: government and do it for whatever arbitrary, petty vengeance reason

642
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: he has. And that is why Project twenty twenty five

643
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: is so dangerous, and it's the reason why what the

644
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 4: Supreme Court did is so dangerous. I don't love the fact,

645
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 4: obviously that Donald Trump is make it away with the

646
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: violent insurrection in twenty twenty and being immunized there. I

647
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 4: am much more terrified though, about what this means if

648
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 4: he gets in the Oval office again with immunity, and

649
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: with the people working for him thinking that they because

650
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 4: it is hardened power and because of the Supreme Court's attitudes,

651
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: they too may have immedia.

652
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: I think it was Feta Scott Paul who told me

653
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: that one of the ways to ensure domestic political violence

654
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: is to harden people who've done it, because then it

655
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 1: creates permission structure. It just explodes because there's no culpability. Right,

656
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 1: there's nothing to stop them, right.

657
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 4: And there's nothing to stop them. And I don't want

658
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 4: to earn this from dark to darker, but there's nothing

659
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: that stops them inside of government, and there's nothing that

660
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 4: stops them outside of government. So January sixth was fundamentally

661
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: a mixture of government actors behaving treasonously and non government

662
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 4: actors acting as part of an insurrection.

663
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: So it was a mixture of those two. And I

664
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 2: think that we are underestimating what a second Trump term

665
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: will mean for that mixture. There was an article in

666
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 2: the New York Times today about a Republican on Long

667
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: Island who is building a militia. Okay, there is nothing

668
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: that stops Donald Trump from having a permanent force of

669
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: January sixth insurrectionists to be the outside force, because he

670
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: can pardon them, and the Supreme Court is indicated not

671
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: just a broad pardon power, but also remember, as I said,

672
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: one of the things in my litany is they showed

673
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: an unwillingness to read the existing statutes broadly enough to

674
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: capture all of the bad conduct on January sixth.

675
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 4: That was one of the bad rulings from this. At

676
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 4: the same time that Project twenty twenty five is building

677
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 4: the infrastructure. How they misuse inside power government power inside

678
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: without accountability. And it is that mixture of you know,

679
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: when Donald Trump said about the proud boys stand by

680
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 4: and stand back or stand back and stand by, that

681
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 4: you was speaking to one half of that equation. And

682
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 4: I think we cannot sleep on that half of the

683
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 4: equation that is going to be part of this, along

684
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 4: with the cronies inside of government.

685
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: It's just every time I interview anyone about this, it

686
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: just gets worse and scarier and very stressful. I would

687
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: like one day to do an interview and for the

688
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: person to be like, you're getting too upset. It's not

689
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: going to be nearly that bad, but you're completely right.

690
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: Just give us two seconds on the Wisconsin dropboxes, because

691
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: that is one win.

692
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

693
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 4: So look, we've seen actually a series of wins over

694
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 4: the last few days, and so let me just rattle

695
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: on the number one, the ballot drop box case in Wisconsin.

696
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 4: Wisconsin had ballot drop boxes in place for twenty twenty.

697
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty two, conservative state Supreme Court bans ballot

698
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 4: drop boxes. Well, my legal team and I brought a

699
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 4: lawsuit in Wisconsin and the newly constituted state Supreme Court

700
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 4: said ballot drop boxes are legal. They are going to

701
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 4: be back in place for the twenty twenty four election.

702
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 4: Another case out of Wisconsin just today, just today, the

703
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 4: Wisconsin Court of Appeals and another case that my team

704
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: brought said that arabs in the ballots will not be

705
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 4: thrown out because the witness address, the witness, the witness,

706
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 4: the absentee ballot when they fill out their address, doesn't

707
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 4: put a zip code or doesn't put street or doesn't

708
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 4: put road, as long as it they fill out there

709
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 4: address enough that the clerk could know where they were

710
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 4: or where they are located.

711
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: It's going to count.

712
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 4: And one more for you as a voters around here

713
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 4: in Alabama. Today the Federal Court rejected the latest ever

714
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 4: by the state of Alabama to discriminate against black voters

715
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 4: under section to the Voting Rights Act. Said that there

716
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 4: is the right of private citizens and groups to bring

717
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 4: litigation to vindicate the rights of black voters on mean

718
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 4: section of the Voting Rights Acts. So it's not all

719
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: bad news. We're having success in court. It's just the

720
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: Supreme Court is the real problem. And you know, the

721
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 4: Republicans every day are hammering away at democracy.

722
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Republicans don't want democracy anymore. And the Supreme Court

723
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: is in the tank for Donald Trump. But otherwise things

724
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: are great.

725
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 4: Thank you, Mark, Thank you.

726
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: Dave Wiveall is a reporter at Samophore. Welcome back, Too

727
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: Fast Politics, My friend Dave.

728
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: It's good to be here. Thank you.

729
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: It's always good to have you. And one of the

730
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 1: many reasons that I appreciate you so much, besides the

731
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: fact that you're such a good reporter, is that you

732
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: go everywhere. You know, you are on the ground everywhere.

733
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: Are you heading to Wiscon to Milwaukee after this?

734
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: I am. I keep bragging to everybody we'll save money.

735
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 3: I'm flying. Probably we'll pick elsil station, will piccking a frame.

736
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 3: Both there money reasons and also it's just I think

737
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,720
Speaker 3: it's very lindy and predictional the take a frame convention,

738
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: you know, waving, waving from the back of it into approach,

739
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 3: getting that nature.

740
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: So one of the things I wanted to ask you

741
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: about is this is sort of the first year that

742
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: I can remember, the first cycle where conventions feel enormous.

743
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: I'm wondering why you think that is, and if you

744
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: think that will continue, We're first going to have the

745
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: Republican Convention and then like about three weeks later the.

746
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 3: Democratic Yes, they failed bigger because well, one, we haven't

747
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 3: had real ones in eight years. I was at the

748
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: Charlotte and Milwaukee sunk down conrencens that basical for meeting.

749
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: We had already ran a little site, so Democrats had

750
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: a little nerd center war for a virtual convention, revelicens

751
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 3: had there were mandatory boats and they had all the

752
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 3: main events of DC. But we haven't had one in

753
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 3: eight years. And the last time you had one, Trump

754
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 3: was not believed man yet and Democrats were divided, so

755
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 3: divine made a very different way, and they were actually

756
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: there was a real divide. Deligates wouldn't stand each other,

757
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 3: who blamed one faction of the party for rigging quote

758
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 3: unclose to the primary, and just talking to Delius, lady,

759
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 3: I think this one, it's more everyone was plowing in

760
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 3: the same direction, but pless agreeing over whether they little followed.

761
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: There's more happening and some still physic has been in

762
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: a while.

763
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, this is what I want to talk

764
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: to you about, because you know I'm on the opinion

765
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: side and I don't necessarily have to swing for every

766
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: pitch the way that some opinion writers feel they must.

767
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: And so I am really interested in having a few

768
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: minutes with you to talk about twenty sixteen because I

769
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: think that a huge lesson was learned by Democrats during

770
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. I'm hoping you could talk a little more

771
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: about that. Well, Culs these were large in by sixteen.

772
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: So what one didn't get out of the way quickly

773
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 3: is party changed the rules so that if they are

774
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 3: used to this already, there are superdalla whelts, there are

775
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 3: people who are automaticality that part of long and co

776
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 3: looking gents, dog rules moves, et cetera, and they don't

777
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: get a vote on the first ballot. The party change

778
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: the rules because of the burning party protests over the game.

779
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 3: If you're a party leader, you can lobby right now,

780
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: but they all get to vote on that minion formal

781
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: second ballots. The party has also changed the left is

782
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: like a lot of the movements tend to in the

783
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 3: two party system, but let's go a lot of what

784
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 3: it want. Did term Deir Biden and not everything by

785
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: any means. Leader the role and everybody is that nine

786
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 3: months ago before the war in Gaza. There were a

787
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,399
Speaker 3: lot of set if that will Biden, if not el more.

788
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,919
Speaker 3: But they don't have to stay rolling the party. They've

789
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: been falling off partly for the reason the does in

790
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: the pet spending middle to people. So I sixteen has

791
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: shaped how the party works and then the results. It's

792
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: really more Bernie movements. I'm not saying it's over, but

793
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: it transform party and that work has been done already.

794
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: It's not in imposition chafe a party right now. You

795
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 3: see that in the way well Bernie and AMC etc.

796
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 3: Are talking about Biden. You're not in the front line

797
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 3: people saying that Biden needs to go because they're more

798
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: willing to compromise inside the party to get the things

799
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: they want. They don't feel like they need to rebel

800
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: or proteste.

801
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: It's funny because it's like, that's actually what I want

802
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: to talk to you about. We had Bernie Sanders on

803
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: this podcast recently. He has gotten a lot of legislation

804
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: he wanted past right, like thirty five dollars insulin and

805
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: this sort of healthcare spending stuff. You know, the roots

806
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: of progressimism. I say this as someone who feels very

807
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: committed to progressive values are you know, at least financially

808
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: happening in this admin. And so one of the first

809
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: people to endorse, reindorse Biden for reelection was in fact

810
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: Bernie and one of his strong his strongest allies, has

811
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: been AOC. And so I just think it's quite interesting

812
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: that the people who are really committed to progressive values

813
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: are just like they have learned the lessons of twenty sixteen, right,

814
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: they have decided that every descent helps Trump, whereas people

815
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: movie stars and other white guys. I don't know if

816
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: every person who's called on and again, I am not

817
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: taking a I have no idea what Democrats should do,

818
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: but I do think it's quite interesting that it seems

819
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: like every single person who has called on Biden's step

820
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: aside has been a white man. I mean, I'm sure

821
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: there have been some women to like Maureen Dawd, but

822
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: it just is it's sort of an interesting phenomenon because,

823
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: as you and I both know, white man will do

824
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: the best under a Trump presidency. Not that they're doing

825
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: it because they want a Trump presidency, but just because

826
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: they have the least to lose, is what I'm trying

827
00:41:59,000 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: to say.

828
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: People were talking about seeing themselves in very intersection all day.

829
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 3: They really see the sea. So everyone who's calling for

830
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 3: Biden from me for this reason for the age, oh

831
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 3: we can't win a reason see's listening as a condition

832
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: to win the election. On Cinta, Joe Biden. That was

833
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 3: the change, and I really not trying to probably in

834
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: ith I half satisfied that the reason the left it

835
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 3: had Biden governed like Jimmy Parter and little was clashing

836
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: with called progress at that point, collective liberals over national

837
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 3: health insurance, disappointing people out abortion that had he been

838
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: antagonistic towards the left, even on Gaza when he's protested,

839
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 3: Biden has answers they don't like, but he's not back

840
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 3: when count of equlums will get out there. They've been

841
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 3: happy with what they feel is being allowed inside the

842
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 3: tender Biden, which wasn't really happening under Hillery for lots

843
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 3: of reasons, will stay that the Bellaery fermament was much stronger.

844
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 3: She had a longer list of people who he owed

845
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 3: things too were things and the left wasn't really getting

846
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: at the tables. They've been at the table with Joe Biden,

847
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: and so the progressives. One thing I've been asking you, Unt,

848
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: I'm talking delegates and one of organizers. There's one main

849
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 3: passes towards strain wile getting leave. They're not even that worry.

850
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 3: I asked, are you worried about if Biden goes in

851
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 3: takamalai eris Roy Cooper tape? Not really. They need to

852
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 3: see that the impediments to progress of the Denmorbary Party

853
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 3: now were Percy Sema and Joe Manchin, and they're both

854
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 3: going to be gone now again if the saw off Basle,

855
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: it's different by wibbing walls. But the the rest, they're

856
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: not worried. They're going to all of their mind when

857
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: they gets a democratic president. They worried, but there's nothing

858
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: that believing will happen on the strump And I think

859
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 3: one other business globe what would be a quoralizing than

860
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 3: a ball hurt. But if you look at additional last day,

861
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 3: the Democratic Centrals of America owning doors in the ALC,

862
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 3: the tumult they had with with Chambo, the left isn't

863
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 3: a weaker organizing position that it was in twenty seventeen

864
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: to only eighteen. I bith I covered in s the

865
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 3: want where Hillary lost. A lot of people in the

866
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: inside the party gradually thought wan Berry could have won

867
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 3: the election because in the conditions that time, and maybe

868
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 3: there were a bunch of popular ideas that they they

869
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: will adopt. And that's not fub the party feels anymore,

870
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 3: and the Left doesn't have the organizable capacity used to.

871
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 3: It's made all these games, but right now it's not.

872
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 3: The Bowman race was meant to be a shot across

873
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 3: the bout by the Impact saying that we can beat

874
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: you league guys on primaries that steedd ploys and state

875
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 3: they have been gaining ground beyond this book. They were

876
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 3: winning electro They the party was listening to them and

877
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 3: worried that they were going to wools young votes, black votes,

878
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: his batic votes, and they did not go along with

879
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: what actings will say, and they don't feel that well

880
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: a little more, this is not really an outside force

881
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: of the party. The only people can disagree with this

882
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: are the people who don't believe in winning electros on.

883
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 3: So we have a batch of people who can agree

884
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 3: with party all facts people and support Cornell West. Some

885
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 3: people in again this is mostly dossil centric, will be

886
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 3: abandoned Biden Morgan for saying what rules the election, will

887
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 3: fight from the opposition very little back while compared to

888
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen. Well really was a sense of twenty sixteen.

889
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,759
Speaker 3: And I remember talking with a lot of people at

890
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: Fernie rallys and Soilalton worst that they need to over him.

891
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: Oh if some guests in we're going to organize the

892
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 3: four years and the progress a movable silence and that's

893
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: not how people see a little more whatever they know

894
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: about brought in flat plenty five. Let's say you're if

895
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 3: your ears, if you are frands were delable trans rights,

896
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 3: Biden will disappointed you in a couple of ways, mostly

897
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 3: people of pressure from conservatives, for example not flying the

898
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 3: bride to flight to embassies. This will compromise that in

899
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: the NBAA after I'm just trying to put a bunch

900
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: of different anti gay the LD and T writers said, Okay,

901
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: we're gonna give no flights of cares. The administration will

902
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: when asked if it supports a limit on gender surgeries

903
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: for minors. If I went back and forth, it's did

904
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 3: a lot of cover got site into the media, but

905
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 3: or the advocate frankfully, but they ended up coming out

906
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,439
Speaker 3: with you know, for a days we look up twenty two.

907
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: They want to use the letters of Policy and the

908
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 3: executive branch to reverse all of the just the definition

909
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 3: of gender, assent them from sex, stop any funds going

910
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 3: to schools and support grass gender rights, stop any elfcare

911
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: for gender firmatare period. Well we're nottal about surgery. We're

912
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 3: talking all paraffe medication or theft are hormones. I think

913
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 3: people who are in this movement actively looking at how

914
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 3: needs power. There's much more honest about the states, and

915
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 3: it's a pretty small even we look at rfka's vote

916
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,840
Speaker 3: is not really those people rm case voters at this point,

917
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 3: very few Democrats I'm on them. Well yeah, but just

918
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 3: the system is breaking in in ways that Democrats are

919
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 3: never going to end. Nevers is not going to shut

920
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 3: down the anlot we're going to do that. And so yeah,

921
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 3: the leftis the leftis in a different position now where

922
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 3: it just doesn't see what it can win under Trunk.

923
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 3: It does see what win blonder will Biden or Democrats

924
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: even the administration.

925
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: Well that is I think a really important point because

926
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: Jesse and I we were talking to someone who said

927
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,720
Speaker 1: you can't win if you alienate the left. The lesson

928
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: of the Hillary Clinton debacle of twenty sixteen is that

929
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: if you isolate an alien innate the left part of

930
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,720
Speaker 1: your party, you will not win because that is the base.

931
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: One of the happy things I think for Democrats is

932
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: that the Democratic base is filled with people who want

933
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: free kindergarten, and there are Republican bases filled with people

934
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: who want deportation squads. So the good news for Democrats

935
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: is the things that they are people want are things

936
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: that are morally okay and not morally abhorrent. Can you

937
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: talk to us so you're tell us where you are

938
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: right now and explain to us a little bit about

939
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: what it is.

940
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm at the Network's Nation conference, which is better

941
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 3: after two sales to six. It started as in gabbering

942
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 3: of course era progressol Internet, rgules and bloggers, and it

943
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 3: changed over the years and be a much more of

944
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 3: an ecuable sting on microlical sectional bouthcranks and vorts pfetial

945
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: I mean the people who develop software well currency, pop

946
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 3: the road and people who canvas saying that those lords

947
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 3: WoT speakle called fence. It's two thousand people. It used

948
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 3: to be se as a presidential candida short case, maybe

949
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: it will be again in the feature. Once it became

950
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 3: more of an actistvent actually just kept interrupting the speeches

951
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: and procession cadients. They'll stop fill up, So the Obama

952
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 3: master would sending year to talk to progressives and calm

953
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: things over. And the Biden wistration doesn't bother it is.

954
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: It is a little bit of its own sad wall

955
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: of the movement. I will here because I'm interested in

956
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: what's going on right now with people who, like I said,

957
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 3: don't know what the heck they're going to do. From

958
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 3: fum this back to tower. I'm here not every year,

959
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: but most years. I remember just the moon shift in

960
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one for all in Afghana stand which crashed

961
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: Biden's phone numbers. See what was very happy with how

962
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 3: much he was able to do this a lot. I

963
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 3: had never seen the progressive movement even under Obama. There

964
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 3: is more depressional about what was getting warm and between

965
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 3: twenty judges all this stuff. People we are very good bold.

966
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 3: So I'm kind of here who takes the tass sure

967
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: of what people thinking, what they're worried about.

968
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: One of the many things that I really appreciate about

969
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: you is you go everywhere, and there really is value

970
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: in that, especially right now in the time when people

971
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: are not going anywhere. I'm wondering if you could talk

972
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 1: for a minute about at the end of the session,

973
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court did a number of really insane decisions.

974
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Chavron deference. I'm thinking about this broad immunity.

975
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: When the president does crimes, it's okay if he's doing

976
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: it in the name of the presidency. And I'm wondering,

977
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,479
Speaker 1: do you think the base is just galvanized because Trump

978
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: is so scary? I mean, in my mind, I'm fucking

979
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: scared of another Trump presidency. Do you think the base

980
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: is too or do you think the base is like eh.

981
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: Progressions Party, the Democratic Party base, I feel like with

982
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 3: analog employee apart from Dazo s ident wants to became

983
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 3: an administration stations crymes so the African American base the

984
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 3: party that's still very in fact. So when you say

985
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: with the Democratic eniencils, well college educating liberals and the

986
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: not white logans in this party, the first group has

987
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: been more satisfied and more host more happy. Even elections.

988
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 3: The Democrats with blad the law in local world wars

989
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 3: are runoffs, special elections. We've seen just there's people being

990
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 3: it tent and yunking their important most as New yorkle

991
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: Hope bag Well, they're really organized and have not stopped

992
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 3: keeping money. I think you're going to see this as

993
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 3: people put up their campaign A finance supports that even

994
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 3: as Biden's under pressure in the last they were just

995
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 3: giving a ton of money to set it in house scanning.

996
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 3: There's still very organised. Yet all we've never covered everything

997
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 3: Likecense because he just so isolated to Biden's age, and

998
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 3: I was in twenty sixteen again very different way. Someone

999
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 3: already had little epics question around the server, the threat

1000
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: of the FBI and investigating, and were in retrospect. I

1001
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 3: think that even at the time it was over overbooked

1002
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 3: the Richess Schick, we're saying that Trump was saying, oh,

1003
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 3: it's gonna be in a POSTPU of Bude, you wouldn't

1004
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 3: have been turns out, I can't actually know what they

1005
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: think to a president office where people really worried about

1006
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 3: get selectors who going to need to ask for and

1007
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: now people think no, but we just like we need

1008
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: the candidate, we can be something unpopable, all beating. Why

1009
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,919
Speaker 3: are we going down this route with our risk?

1010
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 2: Right?

1011
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: No? I mean, look, there are a lot of good

1012
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: faith actors who are asking the question, is it a

1013
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: mistake to go with the very old guy? And I

1014
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: think that is something you have to talk about. But

1015
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: there are a lot of bad faith actors who are like,

1016
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: it'll be easier for Trump to win against someone who

1017
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 1: isn't an incumbent, And that is another question, right, I mean,

1018
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: this is you know, and the reality is none of

1019
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: us have enough information to make this decision. I mean

1020
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: some people think they do, but ultimately I'm not sure

1021
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,839
Speaker 1: they have enough accurate information. But that is neither here

1022
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: nor there. Talk to me about you're going to the

1023
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: RNC next. I already see that Marjorie Taylor Green is speaking.

1024
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: They sort of have given up trying to appear normal.

1025
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: What is your sort of hot take on what you're

1026
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: going to look for and what that looks like.

1027
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been dealing with this on the platform invention

1028
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 3: planning angle. So there are Republican ACTI Wiles who are

1029
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 3: unhappy with I would say pandering that Trump is not

1030
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 3: due back up a little bit the whole discourse of

1031
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 3: a Project Life one five that's about can we trust

1032
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 3: the Trump administration to be staffed Will Magick and Sarah

1033
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 3: Wolves who will act and wat slow gentle. There is

1034
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 3: widespread confidence that he's going to do that. What has

1035
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 3: been annoying Republicans about the summer the platform is that

1036
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 3: Trump is too cautious to embrace stuff they know we

1037
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: will do. I'm not to Texans fear even pro life

1038
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 3: ers that we wouldn't point for light people that you've

1039
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: obsessed he did last poet.

1040
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: There's no question.

1041
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 3: Well they turn it by the executive orders for choice

1042
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 3: into pro license that, yeah, they will. They're pretty happy

1043
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 3: with Trump and Nicky Haley, who came in second the

1044
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 3: primary and will not even speaking. Will mention it was

1045
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 3: very confident at this Trump and his brand and his

1046
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 3: vision of the party, even the one that contradicts itself

1047
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 3: the rights and doesn't want to get close tough. They're

1048
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: very happy Buffalo. We'll see what's in the following or

1049
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: there is a rump of Republicans voter don't want him

1050
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 3: to be the nominally, it's pretty small. They're in people

1051
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 3: who protest a little forli They're just not representative invention.

1052
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 3: And you saw this there recording I cni's almost worst.

1053
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: But a lot of people who were fake electors are

1054
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 3: deligant style. The RNC members who were pretty full of trout,

1055
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 3: but four years ago if they were replaced by friend

1056
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 3: Trump one. So it's a very Trump party. That's not like,

1057
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 3: do not worry about him, not not saying if it

1058
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 3: may want they trust.

1059
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: Him, We're out of time. But I just want you

1060
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: to say that again. There are fake electors who are

1061
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: now Republican delegates.

1062
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well they were Reublican activists. Last time they got

1063
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 3: in trouble for their role in somewhere Neil elching On.

1064
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: In this Republican party, they were sold, Yeah, you're fine.

1065
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,320
Speaker 3: Maturity for the USA. Joe Corns organization was very effective

1066
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 3: at changing who is in the RNC, and they've been

1067
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 3: celebrating that this is this is a very Magga built party.

1068
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,319
Speaker 3: And what frustration Democrats have is that Trump doesn't get

1069
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,320
Speaker 3: any flax for his less popular the parts of party

1070
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: that he's embraced that are unpopular local, how we're going

1071
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 3: to stand taxt stuts with a rich et cetera. They've

1072
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 3: had some being next to snick. That's not what the

1073
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: activists care about at this point. That's what the other

1074
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 3: skin revolt. But Trump is successful when just eating a rally,

1075
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 3: and it's not about that's fall. They're really happy with

1076
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 3: the Wayne. The party is Brandon underhand, even if he

1077
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: lost the popular low twice, even though his favorable rating

1078
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 3: is in the four eas and good day. Not worried

1079
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 3: at all. I don't think you're really not worrying at

1080
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: all about about that, as a lot of people finding that.

1081
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: I'm legal, Dave, thank you please come back.

1082
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, thank you for talking about.

1083
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: No mo.

1084
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon, my young fast.

1085
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 3: I have a new rule for the Internet.

1086
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be Bill Maher over here. I got a

1087
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:45,919
Speaker 2: new rule.

1088
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: Jesus.

1089
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: Twitter spaces are always bad.

1090
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: This was a Twitter space started by one Alex Jones

1091
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: and the title of it was assassinated President Biden. I'm sorry.

1092
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 1: Isn't like threatening the murder of the president against the law.

1093
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: I seem to remember Kathy Griffin having her life ruined

1094
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: because she posed for a picture. But you know it

1095
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: only Democrats get in trouble for stuff like that.

1096
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 2: It's a good thing.

1097
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: Elon.

1098
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 2: Let him back on the platform.

1099
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, great job, Elan. Another win for our sad, sad,

1100
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: dying democracy. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

1101
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the

1102
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

1103
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

1104
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

1105
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:41,720
Speaker 1: for listening.