Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset.
Speaker 2: When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 2: And when I find my.
Speaker 3: Ball in a brid egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg,
Speaker 3: Frida egg, fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to
Speaker 3: run off of.
Speaker 1: The hup course.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to another edition of the FRIDAYGG podcast in
Speaker 3: our Superintendent series. As always, today's episode is brought to
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Speaker 3: Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to
Speaker 3: your local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. Today's episode
Speaker 3: is with Sandy Reid, the director of greenkeeping at Saint
Speaker 3: Andrews Links. I met Sandy when I was over for
Speaker 3: the Open this year, and Sandy oversees all the courses
Speaker 3: at Saint Andrews so all seven, manages the entire team
Speaker 3: and is a wonderful guy. Before Saint Andrews, he worked
Speaker 3: at Carnousti.
Speaker 2: So, without further ado, here is Sandy Reed.
Speaker 3: All right, Sandy, obviously a crazy year for you. Can
Speaker 3: you can you give us an idea? You know, most people,
Speaker 3: I think look at hosting one major tournament, one big
Speaker 3: event as a you know, a big year. What's it
Speaker 3: like when you're doing too and you have the the
Speaker 3: obviously the one hundred and fiftieth Open and the last
Speaker 3: just finishing up last week, the Dunhill. What what's that
Speaker 3: like from a you know, kind of a setup in
Speaker 3: a in a golf course strain perspective?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I guess preparing for the Open. I don't
Speaker 4: It doesn't really come any bigger than that, but you know,
Speaker 4: preparations for that they've been you know, they have three
Speaker 4: or four years in the making really, so pretty much
Speaker 4: our whole whole priority for the year wars around just
Speaker 4: having the golf course set up for that, which we
Speaker 4: feel we did, you know, reasonably good job. But as
Speaker 4: for the Dunhill.
Speaker 1: That what else.
Speaker 4: It's a big DP World Tour event. It's actually pretty
Speaker 4: straightforward for us to prepare for. You know, this time
Speaker 4: of year, the grass is almost stop growing, there's no
Speaker 4: rough for anything to marriage. The only thing we're really
Speaker 4: trying to do is make sure there's no disease on
Speaker 4: the greens, you know, So Dunhill's relatively straightforward. So but
Speaker 4: yet everything that went into preparing for the one hundred
Speaker 4: and fiftieth Open, you know that there's a lot of
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff goes into that, whether it be
Speaker 4: on the course or infrastructure. And we're quite a complex
Speaker 4: site here with golf courses at either side of the
Speaker 4: old so all the all the tentage and bits and pieces,
Speaker 4: you know, it impacts all the courses here and that's
Speaker 4: where you know that that kept me busy for the
Speaker 4: first half of the year, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what how long was the infrastructure build out for
Speaker 3: the Open? It was huge and how much time went
Speaker 3: into just putting it up.
Speaker 4: So the contractors they came on site in the fourteenth
Speaker 4: of March is when they they came on site. The
Speaker 4: build started first Monday in April, when we say Monday
Speaker 4: the fourth thereabouts, So yeah, there would be a good
Speaker 4: three full months of of of build.
Speaker 1: Now. It was in the early weeks, it was fairly gentle.
Speaker 4: It was manty, mainly grand stands in early early while
Speaker 4: the tentage it really ramped up in that last six
Speaker 4: or eight weeks out the tented village that that sits
Speaker 4: on our driving range or golf academy, that was a
Speaker 4: fairly substantial build, right enough, So we had to close
Speaker 4: that down just at the end of April, if I recall.
Speaker 1: So that was fairly complex.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I believe it was probably the biggest infrastructure
Speaker 4: there's ever been at the the Open. Open every year
Speaker 4: pretty much and worked three cannucially prior to here, but
Speaker 4: you know, different scale altogether.
Speaker 3: So you've worked at Carnousty and uh and the saying
Speaker 3: Andrew's we're going to take those away.
Speaker 2: What what's your favorite?
Speaker 3: You just you know, mentioned going to the Open every year,
Speaker 3: what's your favorite venue non Carnousty or the.
Speaker 4: I would say Birkdale probably. I've not played them all.
Speaker 4: I've not or I've played Newfield. I've only played I
Speaker 4: only played this for them, so I've only played nine
Speaker 4: holes if you like half the course. Birkedale's probably my
Speaker 4: favorite out the rest. They're all great in their own way.
Speaker 4: I've not played George's and not really got inside the
Speaker 4: ropes per se.
Speaker 1: It was down.
Speaker 4: It was at the Open there last year, but with
Speaker 4: the COVID restrictions we didn't really get a great chance
Speaker 4: to get inside the ropes to really appreciate the course.
Speaker 4: But I would say Birkdale is probably my favorite out
Speaker 4: with the two that have been at.
Speaker 2: Back to back to the Danehill and the Open.
Speaker 3: How so did all the infrastructure come down and did
Speaker 3: new infrastructure go up?
Speaker 2: How did that work?
Speaker 4: Yep, every single thing came down and all from the opening,
Speaker 4: albeit some of the actual equipment just got stored on
Speaker 4: site and then got rebuilt again, just in a slightly
Speaker 4: different location or on a smaller scale. And funny, you know,
Speaker 4: some of the contractors, it was the same guys, you know.
Speaker 4: On twenty sixth of August, they officially finished with RNA,
Speaker 4: and on the twenty ninth of August they started with
Speaker 4: IMG who run the dun Hills. So same guys, using
Speaker 4: the same stuff, but just building a slightly different place.
Speaker 2: That's funny.
Speaker 3: They just bring it down put it back up three
Speaker 3: days later, so you just, uh, it's gonna be like
Speaker 3: what in terms of the turf and like having stuff
Speaker 3: on it for effectively almost a year?
Speaker 2: Now, what what are we What are you.
Speaker 3: Looking at in terms of just the the damage done
Speaker 3: to it and and the bounce back from it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it depends what infrastructure was on the turf. Where
Speaker 4: there was the grand stands or bleachers, that's pretty that's
Speaker 4: pretty minimum. You know, there was a lot of there
Speaker 4: was still some daylight and air got underneath them where
Speaker 4: the tentage was, and the trackway, you know, the metal
Speaker 4: trackway where all the big articulated lorries come in. That's
Speaker 4: really where we've lost a lot of grass. So on
Speaker 4: top of it being down for so long, we've had
Speaker 4: a very dry year as you would have seen it
Speaker 4: the open, and it's actually continued to be a little
Speaker 4: bit dryer than average. Perhaps post open, we've had some
Speaker 4: heavy spells of rain but recovery has perhaps been a
Speaker 4: little bit slower than we would have perhaps anticipated. We
Speaker 4: you know, been doing a lot of variation, a lot
Speaker 4: of seeding, a lot of feeding. But it's going to
Speaker 4: be well next year before we get full of recovery.
Speaker 4: You know, there's some areas where the hospitality was on
Speaker 4: the on the second hold of the eating, which is
Speaker 4: quite bad. Some of the driving rangehere the tented village
Speaker 4: was so yeah, it's there's some substains stuff there. But
Speaker 4: here we've non stop since they open. The guys have
Speaker 4: been working on it, getting seed in the ground. So
Speaker 4: the challenges we've had golf, you know, all this infrastructures
Speaker 4: and other golf courses. We've had golf on top of us,
Speaker 4: so you know, get an opportunity to get in there
Speaker 4: and do the work and have the have the young
Speaker 4: grass get some you know, time to itself without getting tramble.
Speaker 1: It has been the tough thing for us.
Speaker 3: That's I mean, you effectively operate like the the biggest
Speaker 3: municipal facility in the country, and I think, uh, how
Speaker 3: hard is it to do course projects at a at
Speaker 3: a public golf course where you don't really have shutdowns?
Speaker 3: I think you know, everybody always and I'm one, is
Speaker 3: clamoring for in America at least municipal golf to start
Speaker 3: to do some projects. But then, you know, the aspect
Speaker 3: of shutting down the t sheet is a really difficult thing.
Speaker 3: How do you guys, you know, go about doing bigger
Speaker 3: projects in this case recovery, uh, from the from the
Speaker 3: tournament while people are you know, playing and you have
Speaker 3: pack t sheet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it can be quite tough, that's for sure. In fairness,
Speaker 4: you know, will we have these best part six and
Speaker 4: a half thousand ticket holders that play play golf here,
Speaker 4: so you know, we have to communicate well with them.
Speaker 4: But you know, generally everyone's been fairly helpful in that regard.
Speaker 4: You know, I talked about that hospitality tent on the
Speaker 4: second of the EAD and you know we shortened it
Speaker 4: to par three in advance and we played it for
Speaker 4: a par three for a few weeks thereafter. And most
Speaker 4: people are pretty understanding. Wintertime, it's sims similar. We have,
Speaker 4: you know, have some decent side projects on the go
Speaker 4: each wintertime. We have a couple of sort of maintenance
Speaker 4: days through the winter that can help us just get
Speaker 4: some of the work done or we just have to
Speaker 4: try and move the team markers around the best we can.
Speaker 4: The problem is we have got a few of the
Speaker 4: clubs they still actually play handicapp count and competitions here too,
Speaker 4: so there's challenges with around.
Speaker 1: That, but we'll find a way.
Speaker 4: Basically, you know what, We'll work around the golf best
Speaker 4: we can and generally there's not really an issue.
Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit about yourself. Where
Speaker 3: did you grow up and and how did you get
Speaker 3: into golf.
Speaker 4: So I grew up in you could see the central
Speaker 4: Highlands of Scotland, a little village called blair Rathel, so
Speaker 4: maybe for almost halfway between Perth and Inverness. And so
Speaker 4: my father was a deer stalker who you know, have
Speaker 4: the red deer and grouse on the on the moors.
Speaker 4: And I always thought I would be a god follow
Speaker 4: him into gamekeeping.
Speaker 1: But I had played golf.
Speaker 4: He he did golf, and so he would take my
Speaker 4: brother and I'm a younger brother and I golfing from
Speaker 4: I'm going to see a start when I was around
Speaker 4: about nine maybe if I forget, but a little nine
Speaker 4: hole course, yeah, nine hole course at Blairrathel, great little course,
Speaker 4: and we had family friends that were. He was the
Speaker 4: head greenkeeper Lockery golf Course, which is another ten minutes
Speaker 4: down the road. So when I when I was fourteen,
Speaker 4: he had asked if I was interested in some holiday work.
Speaker 4: So I did jump at that. So for three years
Speaker 4: when I was fourteen fifteen sixteen, I worked at Eastern
Speaker 4: and summer holidays at Lockery.
Speaker 1: At the end of that, when.
Speaker 4: It came time for leaving school, I was never going
Speaker 4: to stay on too long at school.
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to leave.
Speaker 4: When I was sixteen, I decided I wanted to give
Speaker 4: green keeping a shot. Signed up for a one year
Speaker 4: basic green keeping course at Elmwood College, which is actually
Speaker 4: not too far away from Andrews here only fifteen minutes
Speaker 4: away from s Andrews. But yes, signed up as a
Speaker 4: sixteen year old, did one year basic kind of greenkeeping stuff,
Speaker 4: but stayed on site college. Loved it, and then I
Speaker 4: guess the fortunate thing for me was I got a
Speaker 4: job at the end of it. You know you, yeah,
Speaker 4: you wrote wrote a pile of letters away or what
Speaker 4: I should say. One of the modules we did at college,
Speaker 4: it wasn't just greenkeeping. One was on communications and teaching
Speaker 4: you how to write a letter properly, and so I
Speaker 4: remember writing. I'm going to say it was like twenty
Speaker 4: seven or twenty eight letters to golf courses all around
Speaker 4: in north and east of Scotland. That was kind of
Speaker 4: where my family were from and where we holiday. I
Speaker 4: was more comfortable and knew the golf courses.
Speaker 1: So that was the day.
Speaker 4: I guess it was typewriters, but I think I would
Speaker 4: have handwritten all these letters. Wrote twenty seven or twenty eight,
Speaker 4: and I got one response, and the response was offering
Speaker 4: me a position. And this is where I think, perhaps
Speaker 4: and maybe a little bit of fake good luck whatever
Speaker 4: I had put on the letter that I was from
Speaker 4: a gamekeeping family. So the guy that offered me a job,
Speaker 4: he was into his shooting and his dogs, training dogs
Speaker 4: and stuff. And I think rather than any of my
Speaker 4: greenkeeping qualifications, it was the fact that I said I
Speaker 4: was the son of a gamekeeper that was probably we
Speaker 4: kind of piqued his interest. So and that was a
Speaker 4: place called Lethem Grange, which is probably it's sadly closed
Speaker 4: down a couple of years ago, but that's maybe about
Speaker 4: ten fifteen minutes away from CARNUSI. So I was three
Speaker 4: years there and then fortunately he got an assistant's job
Speaker 4: at at Carnousi. But what before I finished, what I
Speaker 4: should say is that guy that offered me the job
Speaker 4: back in ninety four, he's now my father in law.
Speaker 1: So no, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah I met so he got a job, you got
Speaker 3: a job, and you met your wife.
Speaker 1: I met my wife there as well.
Speaker 4: Yet so we're still happily together all these all this
Speaker 4: time later.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild.
Speaker 3: You know, what an interesting way to get into the business,
Speaker 3: but also just you know what an amazing first job, right, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, changing your life really yeah, absolutely, so many ways. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what what you know, what do you start working as
Speaker 3: a as a kid in during holiday and you know,
Speaker 3: in part time? What wasn't it about the green, about
Speaker 3: the jobs and working on the golf course that you
Speaker 3: liked and made you want to do that rather than
Speaker 3: you know, kind of going following in the family footsteps.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess it was still an outdoors type thing.
Speaker 4: I think I really enjoyed the sense of achievement of
Speaker 4: of doing a task and seeing it completed, and you know,
Speaker 4: enjoying the fruits of your labor if you like, you know,
Speaker 4: there was almost a fairly immediate self sense of satisfaction
Speaker 4: from completing a job. And in those days when I
Speaker 4: was at school, I wasn't really on the equipment. It
Speaker 4: was raking bunkers and brushing grass and stuff. But I
Speaker 4: think I just enjoyed kind of trying to do a
Speaker 4: job and doing it doing it well. I think that's
Speaker 4: really the catalyst for getting me into it.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's I think about that.
Speaker 3: Like I was out at a golf course this morning,
Speaker 3: you know, shooting some stuff, filming, and I was just
Speaker 3: thinking about, like how when you're mowing a green, it's
Speaker 3: just like when you're mowing a yard, but that idea
Speaker 3: of like you can see the progress and then you
Speaker 3: finish it, and it's very like kind of it is rewarding.
Speaker 3: There is like a nice sense of accomplishment when you
Speaker 3: when you finish these types of things. And so how
Speaker 3: did you get looped in at CARNOUSTI was that? Were
Speaker 3: you just looking for a new place to move up to,
Speaker 3: and and that was you know, how how did that work?
Speaker 4: Know? That was there was an advertisement in the local newspaper.
Speaker 4: I hadn't hadn't been looking for a job, but yeah,
Speaker 4: an advertisement came up and I applied for it, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just got the job.
Speaker 4: It was fairly state forward, what I do remainber but
Speaker 4: I had one of the longest interviews in my life.
Speaker 4: So the superintendent at that point was you could see
Speaker 4: a legendary grenk keeper in UK circles, a guy called
Speaker 4: John Philip, and he had pretty much transformed canusie if
Speaker 4: you like. You know, it was in a pretty sorry
Speaker 4: state when he took over eighty five, and he had
Speaker 4: turned its fortunes around. It was just a big snowball effect.
Speaker 4: Has it got better, It got more, you know, more visitors,
Speaker 4: more incoming. We were able to spend more. But by
Speaker 4: that point, you know, I started there in ninety seven,
Speaker 4: so that point they had already hosted two Scottish opens
Speaker 4: in ninety five and ninety six. The open was coming
Speaker 4: around the corner of ninety nine, so you know, when
Speaker 4: the advert came up, I had jumped at the chance
Speaker 4: of going for it. Had an interview with draw and
Speaker 4: that lasted, yeah, two or three hours, and I didn't
Speaker 4: do very much talking. I can tell you is John's
Speaker 4: one of the most enthusiastic guys you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but I got the job there, and you know,
Speaker 1: just over.
Speaker 4: The years kind of managed to work my way up.
Speaker 4: But it's it's a it's a real, real special place,
Speaker 4: CANUSI you know, I still hold it fondly in my heart.
Speaker 1: You know, you know all the work that we did there.
Speaker 4: And how good the turf is, you know, from a
Speaker 4: tough manager, and it takes a bit of.
Speaker 3: Beating yeah with you as you describe jan as a
Speaker 3: as a legend. You know when you worked for him,
Speaker 3: what was kind of the biggest thing that you took away?
Speaker 2: How do he shape you as an individual?
Speaker 1: He was a hard worker.
Speaker 4: I like to think I was a hard worker, but
Speaker 4: he you know, I felt you could. He wouldn't say
Speaker 4: pat you on the back, but you knew you. I
Speaker 4: always thought I was kind of trying to please him,
Speaker 4: put my best foute forward.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed my work too. But he was so enthusiastic about.
Speaker 4: The turf and the game. He's a bit of a historian,
Speaker 4: you know, he really knows his stuff about the game,
Speaker 4: especially the open and you know Tom Morris and he
Speaker 4: could really talk about the history of Carnousti especially, But
Speaker 4: he was such an enthusias asked for for the turf
Speaker 4: and you know, and the challenges he would have had
Speaker 4: to try and make it better. He he was perhaps
Speaker 4: a little bit more I don't know what. We're not ruthless,
Speaker 4: but he he didn't care so much about the golfers.
Speaker 4: He just got on and did the work. And you know,
Speaker 4: if there was flak coming his way, he just accepted it,
Speaker 4: you know, and just moved on. He he knew he
Speaker 4: was doing it for the betterment of the course, so
Speaker 4: he you know, there was nothing really stopped him and
Speaker 4: in terms of doing what he felt was best for
Speaker 4: for the turf, and in terms and turned of course.
Speaker 4: So yeah, real, just an enthusiastic guy about his vacation
Speaker 4: and the game.
Speaker 1: Name two things I love myself.
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Speaker 3: dedicated local distributors, both of whom are passionate about delivering
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Speaker 3: Follow at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to
Speaker 3: your local Toro distributor today. Now back to Sandy Reid.
Speaker 2: So you worked your.
Speaker 3: Way up and and were it became ran essentially the
Speaker 3: maintenance UH program at Carnousti over the years. What were
Speaker 3: your you know, favorite parts of of Carnusty just as
Speaker 3: a place in general, and how you guys went about
Speaker 3: maintaining it.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 4: Well, a couple of things you talked to you a little,
Speaker 4: you know, just the standards of tough quality, tough presentation there,
Speaker 4: and it kind of almost became a little bit addictive
Speaker 4: just trying to see how you know, looking how you know,
Speaker 4: figuring out ways we could make it better.
Speaker 1: You know, the tentionent to detail.
Speaker 4: It wasn't just in the tough you know, bunker preparation,
Speaker 4: the bunker revetments. In my eyes, you'll you'll not see
Speaker 4: bunkers built any better, you know, to a better quality.
Speaker 4: And the golf course, especially the Championship of course, the
Speaker 4: three course of fifty four holes at Canusi, you know,
Speaker 4: three supercourses, but the Championship course it's a special place
Speaker 4: you know, it's really you know, it's a test of
Speaker 4: your game for starters, but there's so many different challenges
Speaker 4: that it kind of throws out. Yet you know that
Speaker 4: the bunkering, as in the strategic element of the bunkering
Speaker 4: around there takes a bit of beating.
Speaker 1: Too, you know.
Speaker 4: So and you do know that it's you know, there's
Speaker 4: so much history a place as there is here that people,
Speaker 4: loads of people in my shoes before me, had had
Speaker 4: similar challenges, more difficult challenges perhaps, But we're.
Speaker 1: You know, we're looking after our course.
Speaker 4: Not all all had their left or mark and some
Speaker 4: some way or another, you know, it had all looked
Speaker 4: to make some form of improvements, especially Canoustie, you know,
Speaker 4: there had been quite a few changes there over the years.
Speaker 4: Perhaps a little bit more difficult to achieve that sort
Speaker 4: of thing here in the old course with it.
Speaker 3: What you said about the bunkers, the best built bunkers,
Speaker 3: what what makes them so well built?
Speaker 4: I think it's just the the sharpness, if you like,
Speaker 4: round the around the you know, how they fit into
Speaker 4: the ground. I guess maybe Kanusti does differ, though a
Speaker 4: lot of the bunkers a Knousi aren't really pop bunkers
Speaker 4: per se, the more up in your face, you know
Speaker 4: there you hear it's and who's a lot more of
Speaker 4: the bunkers probably sit down into the ground a little
Speaker 4: bit more, whereas CANOUSTI They probably sit up so that
Speaker 4: you know, how you tie that into the ground.
Speaker 1: Perhaps is.
Speaker 4: Can be a little bit more visually impressive. I guess,
Speaker 4: you know, you see more of the bunker. But the
Speaker 4: guys there and that was well before my time. You know,
Speaker 4: they just built a good bunker. They you know, they
Speaker 4: get their their angles, just the slopes of the tapers,
Speaker 4: the quality of turf, you know, the run ends, you know,
Speaker 4: just the shapes that shuits the ground, makes maintenance, I
Speaker 4: guess easier to gathers gathers the ball in the right way.
Speaker 1: Here. Loads of play people build great bunkers.
Speaker 4: But I go when I go back there, yeah, I
Speaker 4: still look at them think, yeah, I'd love to get
Speaker 4: to that stage here at Andrews.
Speaker 3: What would you say is like, you know, in terms
Speaker 3: of when you think back to carneu see, what was
Speaker 3: the the biggest challenge to to presenting that golf course
Speaker 3: on a daily basis?
Speaker 2: What what was kind of the thing that would keep
Speaker 2: you up at night.
Speaker 4: I've often always said I've never I don't know that
Speaker 4: I've ever been kept up at night thinking about turf.
Speaker 4: I kept now thinking about people, But I don't know
Speaker 4: that I've been kept up and now thinking about turf.
Speaker 4: But the way I guess in relation to that, just
Speaker 4: you know that you don't necessarily have a places, not
Speaker 4: just candas, a lot of links courses, a lot of
Speaker 4: courses around the world, I guess, But you know, the
Speaker 4: time that you've got in the morning to do your
Speaker 4: prep and then golf right on the back of you.
Speaker 4: You know, even in the height of the summer, you
Speaker 4: know you might only have an hour, and if you're
Speaker 4: trying to do maintenances in top dressing or spraying, and
Speaker 4: you know, you really have to think on your feet
Speaker 4: the amount of times that we would do stuff on
Speaker 4: a Sunday evening, you know, to try and get a
Speaker 4: head start. You know, Sunday evenings might be you know,
Speaker 4: behind the last of the visitors. You'd make a head
Speaker 4: start to some of the spray operations or top dressing
Speaker 4: at least get six greens done, just so that you
Speaker 4: had that head start in the morning to ensure you
Speaker 4: didn't get swallowed up by the golf the next day,
Speaker 4: so that was probably some of the biggest challenges. I
Speaker 4: would say, mm hm.
Speaker 3: What you know, so you're running Carnoustay, how did the
Speaker 3: job at St. Andrew's come up? And were you immediately interested?
Speaker 3: I imagine you probably. I can't imagine there's a job
Speaker 3: that's you know, bigger or or necessarily better, but like
Speaker 3: walk us through that whole process.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there is a bit of a story to that,
Speaker 4: So you're right it is. I guess in my eyes
Speaker 4: it doesn't really get any bigger than Sir Andrew's. But
Speaker 4: also in my eyes, I was at the next best
Speaker 4: place at KNUSI. You know, you know, I had a
Speaker 4: great job there. We were very settled, you know, I've
Speaker 4: got great wife and two super kids who were at
Speaker 4: that point eight and five. I think it was so yeah,
Speaker 4: a month. It was a month. I was always preparing
Speaker 4: for the open in twenty eighteen, and then three weeks
Speaker 4: before they open, it was announced that Gordon Moyer, my
Speaker 4: predecessor here, he was going to be retiring, which was
Speaker 4: that in essence, was earlier retirement. He was only fifty
Speaker 4: nine at the time, so not that I had ever
Speaker 4: caught myself thinking about Andrews.
Speaker 1: But if I did it, you.
Speaker 4: Know, always thought, well, Gordon's got a long time before
Speaker 4: or he would ever retire. So yeah, he announced just
Speaker 4: at the end of June the twenty eighteen that was retiring,
Speaker 4: and my head was a little bit scrambled, to be honest,
Speaker 4: because you're preparing for the open and then you're thinking, well,
Speaker 4: the only job that I would maybe ever turn my
Speaker 4: head is now up. And yeah, it took it took
Speaker 4: me a long time to figure out if I was
Speaker 4: even going to apply for it, and you know, the
Speaker 4: I had some conversations gronomisted John Philp, my former boss
Speaker 4: at CANU Stay, and it wasn't till my wife had said, look,
Speaker 4: I think you're going to have to go for it
Speaker 4: that I did. You know, we had a few years
Speaker 4: earlier with what we thought was our forever home as well,
Speaker 4: you know, so there was there was a lot, kind
Speaker 4: of a lot in the mix. But so yeah, the
Speaker 4: interviews came around. I did absolutely no preparation for the
Speaker 4: first interview because I still wasn't convinced that I wanted
Speaker 4: the job it was right for me, So did no preparation.
Speaker 1: That was a fairly.
Speaker 4: Relatively informal was with at that point you Loud and
Speaker 4: he was the former chief executive here at Andrews Links
Speaker 4: Trust and my predecessor, Gordon Moyer, so it was more
Speaker 4: of a sit down chat with them, and then the
Speaker 4: second There was a second interview, maybe a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks later, but by the time that came around, I
Speaker 4: was ready.
Speaker 3: Was the first one first interview like in the lead
Speaker 3: up to the to the open at Carnousti.
Speaker 2: Or was it after?
Speaker 1: It was after?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so okay, I just was curious, you know what,
Speaker 4: I've missed out a part of the story here I
Speaker 4: get carried away. So the closing date was the the
Speaker 4: Friday after the open, and I still hadn't Yeah, I
Speaker 4: still hadn't made my mind up the applications. There was
Speaker 4: no email applications. It was applications by post. So on
Speaker 4: the Thursday night before the closing date, I drove over
Speaker 4: from Carnousti to St. Andrews with my application because I
Speaker 4: couldn't I couldn't get it here in times. So it
Speaker 4: was last It was really last minute that I made
Speaker 4: a decision to do it.
Speaker 1: So the liar, Yeah, I drove over eight.
Speaker 4: O'clock on the Thursday night with my application, so that
Speaker 4: that yeah, that's how that came out. So and then
Speaker 4: the yeah, then first interview must have been early early August,
Speaker 4: so second interview came around. By that time, I was ready,
Speaker 4: you know, I wanted the job. It was perhaps that
Speaker 4: competitive part two, you think, well, I want to make
Speaker 4: sure that I'm I show that I'm the best, the best,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, I didn't know who would be
Speaker 4: applying for it, but you could perhaps it was that
Speaker 4: element too, But I was ready at that point to say, yeah,
Speaker 4: Andrews is the is the job that I want. Unfortunately
Speaker 4: that I came through that process that involved the chair
Speaker 4: chair of the trustees and the chair of the Links
Speaker 4: Management Committee as well as chief exec and former director
Speaker 4: of Greenkeeping, and came came through and on top of
Speaker 4: that process and it's been it's been great.
Speaker 2: So do you live in Saint Andrews Propper.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we moved over so KNUSI is not Fat's only
Speaker 4: maybe a forty five minute commute. But I guess that
Speaker 4: was one of the challenges when the job came up.
Speaker 4: I've always lived pretty close to my work, always within
Speaker 4: five ten minutes and Also at that point, my wife's
Speaker 4: health hadn't been so good. She wasn't driving through because
Speaker 4: of epilepsy, and I had the young kids, and I thought, well,
Speaker 4: have I moving worked? If I was going to move
Speaker 4: work to Andrews and my wife can't drive and the
Speaker 4: young kids need ferried about for some reason, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm you know, I'm forty five minutes or an hour
Speaker 4: at night time from getting home from being able to
Speaker 4: help out. So I always felt that if I was
Speaker 4: to get the job at Andrews, it meant moving home.
Speaker 4: So we managed to get We're fortunate we martually get
Speaker 4: a house in the town just maybe six months after
Speaker 4: I started here. And it's so it's great living in
Speaker 4: the town.
Speaker 3: Really is what's your favorite part about living in in
Speaker 3: ten Enders? I feel like I didn't get like the
Speaker 3: normal experience obviously being there the weak up and it
Speaker 3: was a bit hectic, But it seems like an amazing
Speaker 3: town to live in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like living in a city but small.
Speaker 4: You know, it's got a lot of I mean it is.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of things here that you can do,
Speaker 4: a lot of great places to eat and drink, a
Speaker 4: lot of good stuff for the kids, you know, activities
Speaker 4: for the kids. Obviously, golf courses on your doorstep, the beach,
Speaker 4: you know, the west Ange is next to golf courses here,
Speaker 4: great place to come.
Speaker 1: Schools, schools are good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just it's just an all nice, nice time.
Speaker 3: What So you take over like a massive operation, and
Speaker 3: you obviously have how many How many people on staff
Speaker 3: do you have?
Speaker 4: I have sixty nine stuff, sixty nine permanent staff within
Speaker 4: the greenkeeping function.
Speaker 3: What you know, how do you how do you implement
Speaker 3: change if you if you want to change something like
Speaker 3: you know, obviously everybody's been doing things, you know, a
Speaker 3: certain way, and I imagine you come in and every
Speaker 3: but it's different they you know you you know, everybody
Speaker 3: runs things a little bit differently.
Speaker 2: How how did you go about that process of.
Speaker 3: Implementing the way you want things run with a staff
Speaker 3: that you know had been working for somebody else.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess I would say, Yeah, he's almost four
Speaker 4: years in and I still wouldn't say that I've implemented
Speaker 4: too much in the way of change. But I don't
Speaker 4: know that I'm that way inclined them. You know, it's
Speaker 4: a very similar position here than it was at Carnousie.
Speaker 4: You know, your your charge of multiple courses, but you've
Speaker 4: got superintendents underneath you, and I was in their shoes.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 4: I worked under John Philip CANUSI I was looking after
Speaker 4: the championship course. But I didn't want John tell me
Speaker 4: what to do, you know, I wanted my place. I
Speaker 4: wanted the accountability, the responsibility of looking after the course.
Speaker 4: So I've always tried to manage my course managers ahead
Speaker 4: greenkeepers that way, give them their space to do that.
Speaker 4: So if I'm looking to implement change, it's not I'm
Speaker 4: not going to dictating stuff to them. I want them
Speaker 4: to have the freedom to manage things how they want,
Speaker 4: so long as the results are good, you know. And
Speaker 4: they're all doing a great, great job, but they just
Speaker 4: get there slightly differently, you know, in terms of how
Speaker 4: they manage their tough But really for me, it's just
Speaker 4: about it's having chats. It's been in the guys years,
Speaker 4: you know, and just you know, it's have you thought
Speaker 4: of this? You know, it's suggesting rather than dictating. But
Speaker 4: there has been one or two, you know, changes I
Speaker 4: have made, and I think but generally it's been through
Speaker 4: agreement with the guys too, you know, and whether that
Speaker 4: be too structural elements on the team or even influence
Speaker 4: on the courses. You know, we've changing, you know, whether
Speaker 4: it be a winter a couple of winter projects. But
Speaker 4: we kind of talked through as a kind of a
Speaker 4: collective really, but you know, I like to make sure
Speaker 4: that I get their input. All the course managers, they're
Speaker 4: been here a lot longer and there most of them
Speaker 4: are older than me too, so you know, they know
Speaker 4: they know the site well, they know better than I do.
Speaker 4: So you know I have to I have to rely
Speaker 4: on them for for a lot of that.
Speaker 2: You're raw in your raw at Carnoustiere.
Speaker 3: You're not day to day out, you know, looking at
Speaker 3: every golf course and examining it like you would as
Speaker 3: a course manager running your own golf course. You know,
Speaker 3: do you miss what are like, I guess, do you
Speaker 3: miss and what aspects of being a course manager do
Speaker 3: you miss from your current job?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I must miss it every day. M fortunately stuck
Speaker 4: in the office most most of a week now. I
Speaker 4: think it maybe goes back to I think what I
Speaker 4: said earlier on about as a youngster. It's it's that
Speaker 4: sense of achievement, maybe achieving something physical. You know that
Speaker 4: that's what you what's what I miss. But even I've
Speaker 4: always to back down the level to say, when I
Speaker 4: was the hay green keeper of the Championship course at Cnucia,
Speaker 4: I would view it as I had my plan with it,
Speaker 4: be for a day, a week, a month, a year,
Speaker 4: a winter or whatever. I had my men, I had
Speaker 4: my equipment, you know, I had my materials, and you know,
Speaker 4: you you would plan around that get your jobs done,
Speaker 4: and you could you could see that, you know, that
Speaker 4: reward of what you had in your your mind, what
Speaker 4: the program you had ahead of you.
Speaker 1: So I missed that.
Speaker 4: Now you know that the wins I get are they're
Speaker 4: not quite so tangible, if you like, It's not quite
Speaker 4: the same physical aspect. So I do miss getting out
Speaker 4: on on the equipment or or or or being involved
Speaker 4: in some of the day to day kind of running elements.
Speaker 4: But that just goes with the territory. And you know,
Speaker 4: I enjoy seeing that I've perhaps had an influence on,
Speaker 4: you know, anyone on the team, not just the course
Speaker 4: managers or their deputies, but anyone that you know, when
Speaker 4: I can, I try to speak to them just even
Speaker 4: if it's just to pass the time of day, but
Speaker 4: trying to get to know them and you know, figure
Speaker 4: out if I can help them in anyway.
Speaker 3: You said you give your course manaitors a lot of
Speaker 3: autonomy and let them kind of run their golf course,
Speaker 3: present their golf course the way they'd like to present it.
Speaker 3: Can you give us an example of how you know,
Speaker 3: you're different courses at St Andrew's differ just based off
Speaker 3: of the course manager and how in their philosophy, how
Speaker 3: they how they present the golf course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.
Speaker 4: I'll start just to give you an idea of the
Speaker 4: difference different responsibilities they have, you know, in the team
Speaker 4: underneath me. So well, there's seven courses or six and
Speaker 4: a half if you like, six, eighteens and nine. It's
Speaker 4: it's not like I've got seven different course managers. So
Speaker 4: I've got course manager for the old course. He just
Speaker 4: looks after that alone. There's a course manager looks after
Speaker 4: the new and the Jubilee with as one team. Now
Speaker 4: he's in the same facility as the course manager and
Speaker 4: the old course. Then I've got a team that look
Speaker 4: after forty five holes, that look after Aiden's side. That's
Speaker 4: a single team. And that two of their courses are
Speaker 4: built on slightly different ground still Links, but it had
Speaker 4: formerly been agricultural ground. USGA are allegedly USGA greens on
Speaker 4: you know, twenty seven of the holes over there. And
Speaker 4: then we've got the Castle course outside the town which
Speaker 4: is completely different. It is built on clay, very much
Speaker 4: Link style, but USGA greens up there. So they've all
Speaker 4: got slightly different things they need to look after and consider.
Speaker 4: I guess the closest ones really are the old Nude
Speaker 4: Jubilee and the Eden would be you know proper old
Speaker 4: school Links courses whether one hundred years plus old, so
Speaker 4: there are you know a lot of similarities there. The
Speaker 4: old has more play than the rest, you know, and
Speaker 4: you know the way it is is built, you know,
Speaker 4: the trafficking on the old courses is one of the
Speaker 4: key challenges. You know, everyone's off the one side of
Speaker 4: the green and that's that's one of the main challenges
Speaker 4: they have. Expectations are obviously pretty high in the old
Speaker 4: course all year round. We have visitors, you know, ninety
Speaker 4: eight percent occupancy in the old course for the year.
Speaker 1: So the pressure to keep.
Speaker 4: Things you know, presentable and good neck when it's the
Speaker 4: same across all the courses really, but the the New
Speaker 4: and the Jubilee, you know that there and to an
Speaker 4: extent there, perhaps they've got even less time in the
Speaker 4: morning to prepare in front of the local golfers. They're
Speaker 4: getting chased around, you know, it might be a two ball,
Speaker 4: it's out first and nailing it round in two and
Speaker 4: a half hours, you know, And it's so it can
Speaker 4: be tough for they guys to get that opportunity to
Speaker 4: do their their sort of maintenance. So they have to
Speaker 4: kind of box clever there, eat insides similar and then
Speaker 4: you've got the team numbers as well, so that pound
Speaker 4: for pound.
Speaker 1: The old course has got the most men per hole
Speaker 1: if you like. You know, it's got the teams.
Speaker 4: The four teams are almost comparable in size, but they
Speaker 4: look after a different amount of golf holes. But yeah,
Speaker 4: there's a lot of different challenges, a lot of different competitions.
Speaker 4: They all have to deal with. Castle does. It closes
Speaker 4: in the for four months in the wintertime, which helps them,
Speaker 4: but then they've got the pressure making sure everything's right
Speaker 4: all the way through this summer. It's a lot of
Speaker 4: as it has got there too, but they don't get
Speaker 4: any maintenance done. Their seeding work they'll do when the
Speaker 4: course closes nearly November rather than in what we might
Speaker 4: call the growing season. So a few different challenges across
Speaker 4: the four teams.
Speaker 3: Really, do do you notice a you know, like just
Speaker 3: a difference in how like do the managers of those facilities,
Speaker 3: just how how they go about process or you guys
Speaker 3: trying to present as similar conditions across the courses as possible.
Speaker 4: We are trying to present similar conditions, but they definitely
Speaker 4: have different processes that there are different different outlooks on
Speaker 4: you know, nutrition, wetting agent, top dess is all very similar.
Speaker 4: You know that our sand and puts in terms of
Speaker 4: the targets for organic matter and the greens, but they
Speaker 4: all have all the coursemtagers have a different, slightly different style,
Speaker 4: which is fine because the results that they're achieving are
Speaker 4: all are all first class in my eyes, so I'm
Speaker 4: fine with that.
Speaker 3: Obviously, something a big topic has been climate change, and
Speaker 3: I'm curious if climb and change or the thread of
Speaker 3: it has impacted how you guys do your job or
Speaker 3: the maintenance of the course and if you've if you've
Speaker 3: planned for any of the effects of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does seem to be having a little bit
Speaker 4: of effect. Well, I guess perhaps more of it's anecdotal,
Speaker 4: but what we're finding is the spring seems to be
Speaker 4: colder and longer than it has been in the past,
Speaker 4: which has meant growth. Is it a little bit behind
Speaker 4: getting into the season? You're finding winters are generally slightly
Speaker 4: milder and then rainfall you have seen this year it's
Speaker 4: been a you know, what we call a drought, but
Speaker 4: what you're finding it's kind of feast of fam and
Speaker 4: you know you'll get dry, prolonged piers of dry weather
Speaker 4: and then all the rainal come at once. So I
Speaker 4: wouldn't be surprised by the year end we're back to
Speaker 4: our average in terms of rainfall, but it'll all fallen
Speaker 4: in at a shorter window of window of time.
Speaker 3: What what part of the of the property is most
Speaker 3: susceptible to the erosion? What part of the I guess
Speaker 3: obviously the beach, but then maybe the golf aspect the.
Speaker 4: Most delicate, but it's probably it's actually on the on
Speaker 4: the eding estuary.
Speaker 1: So on this.
Speaker 4: It wouldn't be a million miles away from say the
Speaker 4: eighth t and Old if you went up along east
Speaker 4: a little bit from there, so you know, right behind
Speaker 4: the eleventh the eleventh green on the old you know,
Speaker 4: we've got gabbing baskets along the east and estuary and
Speaker 4: that they end another maybe three four hundred yards up
Speaker 4: four hundred yards beyond that. So immediately as you get
Speaker 4: beyond the gabbying baskets, there's a as you can imagine, there's.
Speaker 1: A weak area there with you know, the water.
Speaker 4: There's a bit of water ingress also is in alignment
Speaker 4: with the actually burn the sort of the river course
Speaker 4: of the Eden that comes through the Eding Estuary puts
Speaker 4: a little bit extra pressure on on that June there
Speaker 4: so and the wind the way the wind batters there,
Speaker 4: so that that's a probably our weakest spot. That's formally
Speaker 4: had two beach ree charges, you know, perhaps the best
Speaker 4: part of twenty thousand tons of sand driven in to
Speaker 4: almost recreate the dune and the beach there, and that's
Speaker 4: another thing we're planning for in the next few years.
Speaker 4: So it's a case of just holding the line, if
Speaker 4: you like, Matt, really just trying to maintain what we
Speaker 4: have there. Some further round in the Eden est you're
Speaker 4: actually on the Eden course so you know, that's perhaps
Speaker 4: we might be most susceptible to a coastal flood of something,
Speaker 4: you know, and had a I think twenty ten was
Speaker 4: the last bad one we had there down at the Swelking.
Speaker 4: You know, there was a bad one there again twenty
Speaker 4: maybe it was the same time twenty ten. There was
Speaker 4: a bit of June lost there, but that was recharged
Speaker 4: and that's you know, that's actually growing. You know, there's
Speaker 4: where we're a creating ground there. But you might say,
Speaker 4: you know that the Swulkan is tidaled and some high
Speaker 4: tides that the tide can come right up there doesn't
Speaker 4: quite burst its banks, but maybe if you had a
Speaker 4: bad coastal storm it potentially could. But yeah, I would
Speaker 4: say Eden Estuary is actually the the sort of most
Speaker 4: delicate point for us.
Speaker 3: Just now, where what's your favorite part of the property.
Speaker 3: You know, just if you were if you were going
Speaker 3: to go for a walk, where would you where would
Speaker 3: you want to walk?
Speaker 4: I guess anywhere along that Eating Estuary and right out
Speaker 4: to what we call the outthead. It's that it's the
Speaker 4: point at the where the Eating Estuary meets the North Sea,
Speaker 4: if you like, right out there out.
Speaker 1: By you know, the eighth gin of the Jubilee.
Speaker 4: Beautiful spot out there, you know, you you kind of
Speaker 4: look over to Lucas and tense Bere Forest, see right
Speaker 4: back down into the town. You see back down through
Speaker 4: the golf courses. So probably that's the that's the nicest spot.
Speaker 1: You know. There's a little bit of height there as well.
Speaker 1: That just helps you see.
Speaker 4: A little bit more of the ground around about you.
Speaker 3: So that's where you go if you were going on
Speaker 3: a Sunday Sunday straw, yeah.
Speaker 1: You would go.
Speaker 4: And often it might be up just walking up the beach,
Speaker 4: you know, all the way up to the West Sands
Speaker 4: Beach and then just nip around the corner up and
Speaker 4: into the dunes. Yeah, that that that would be is
Speaker 4: a popular spot. And I'm no different.
Speaker 3: Really tell us about how being closed in a park
Speaker 3: on Sunday impacts maintenance, obviously. I think that was one
Speaker 3: of the things that had the biggest impact on me
Speaker 3: was the idea of the major championship ending. And I
Speaker 3: walked out of the media center maybe two hours after
Speaker 3: and and people are all over the course. People are
Speaker 3: having effectively like a picnic, and the pop bunker on
Speaker 3: the seventeenth hole. You know, kids are kids are hitting
Speaker 3: golf shots. I mean it was, it was. It was
Speaker 3: such a neat scene and atmosphere. And you know, I
Speaker 3: think America that doesn't happen really at any any golf courses.
Speaker 3: And most would say, point two, they're gonna nobody's gonna
Speaker 3: take care of the course and it's gonna get beat up.
Speaker 2: Does is that? You know, does it make more work
Speaker 2: for you guys?
Speaker 3: Like what, can you just maybe just talk about Sunday
Speaker 3: clothes being closed?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well so Sunday it's closed to give it a race,
Speaker 4: as old to Modus would have said, but it probably
Speaker 4: the old course probably gets more people walking a Sunday
Speaker 4: than it does Monday to Saturday combined. When you see it.
Speaker 4: In fairness, most people are pretty respectful.
Speaker 1: You know, we have.
Speaker 4: People and dogs and bunkers and stuff. You know, we
Speaker 4: always know that on a Monday morning is going to
Speaker 4: be some extra work. But you know, fortunately, you know,
Speaker 4: there's not too much in the way of other damage
Speaker 4: goes on. Generally fairly respectful. We do use it as
Speaker 4: an opportunity to do some of the maintenance on the
Speaker 4: old you know, if we have top dressing operations or
Speaker 4: spray operations, and you know, and the weather's conducive. We'll
Speaker 4: try and achieve that on a Sunday morning. So we'll
Speaker 4: generally have a few more staffing on a Sunday than
Speaker 4: we would on a Saturday when they're still play on.
Speaker 4: So yeah, we use Sundays as an opportunity to get
Speaker 4: some work done. I guess early on as we too,
Speaker 4: because there's still public come out. But I tend not
Speaker 4: to come down on a Sunday because it does you know,
Speaker 4: I'm not necessly used to seeing that many people on
Speaker 4: their course at once. It we just get me upset
Speaker 4: when I see, you know, kids and bunkers and running
Speaker 4: right and skidding picking up ball. So I tend not
Speaker 4: to come down and look at it. But you know,
Speaker 4: in fairness, there's it causes a very little lessue.
Speaker 1: And it's great.
Speaker 4: It's it's a great thing for the community, you know,
Speaker 4: and and it's not just a local community.
Speaker 1: There's plenty of others come but I think, you.
Speaker 4: Know, it's it's it's great to be able to share
Speaker 4: our facility with with other people. It's it's a beautiful
Speaker 4: spot to walk.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: I'd imagine that you know, part of the reason that
Speaker 3: it's worked where you haven't had like major problems is
Speaker 3: that it's you know, the fact that it's open every
Speaker 3: Sunday creates it almost like a it's like it's a
Speaker 3: normal place to go and there isn't any you know,
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of pride obviously within the community
Speaker 3: for it.
Speaker 4: Right Yeah, no, absolutely, you're you're right. You know, if
Speaker 4: you are down at you know, you see a lot
Speaker 4: of similar people out, certainly in the early stages of
Speaker 4: a day, and I think you're right. You know, it's
Speaker 4: the link says really, you know, it's we're sort of
Speaker 4: the links us. We're custodians of it, if you like,
Speaker 4: on behalf of the people of the town. So everyone
Speaker 4: in the town appreciates what the you know, the courses here,
Speaker 4: you know, the links is for them, is for the town.
Speaker 4: So yeah, people do, they do appreciate, they do respect it.
Speaker 2: What's the best time to visit outside of you know, summer.
Speaker 4: If you're going to golf or if you're just going
Speaker 4: to come and visit, because I would say for golf,
Speaker 4: your best time, I would say September is a great
Speaker 4: a great month, you know, like in the UK in general,
Speaker 4: I would say September is a great month for golf,
Speaker 4: especially the Links course. The fescue is really kind of
Speaker 4: really strong in September, you know. I would also say
Speaker 4: September is a great, great time. It would be one
Speaker 4: of my favorite, I would say, But you can get
Speaker 4: some great weather, you know, we just well still partly
Speaker 4: in September there but other than Friday, you know the
Speaker 4: Dunhill where some great weather. The Dunhill there some great
Speaker 4: you know, the sun is just that a little bit
Speaker 4: lower to you know cast the shadows over the place
Speaker 4: again was off at his based, so I obviously early autumn.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when those when those shadows come, it's just it's
Speaker 3: unbelievable how spectacular it is. We saw how baked out,
Speaker 3: how brown, you know, I don't know if baked out's
Speaker 3: the best term, but just how brown, how fast the
Speaker 3: golf course played at at the Old at the Open,
Speaker 3: it was. It was incredible. You know what type of
Speaker 3: strain at that point was put on the grass? Like
Speaker 3: what were you ever? You know, we're you know, you
Speaker 3: and the team ever worried about about the grass and
Speaker 3: then how long did it take to bounce back?
Speaker 2: And like what what are we.
Speaker 3: Talking about in terms of recovery, like the moment the
Speaker 3: determined idd what what was going on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, things were very dry and we were talking about
Speaker 4: the well, I'll talk a little bit about the but
Speaker 4: it was it was a very dry year from April.
Speaker 1: Really it has been a very dry year.
Speaker 4: But we were keeping moisture levels where we were, you know,
Speaker 4: within target. We still had play right through till the
Speaker 4: sort of third end of the third week of June,
Speaker 4: so we're having to maintain the tough for just the
Speaker 4: challenges of that. But we always know that tough can
Speaker 4: given the right weather, tough and the links environment can
Speaker 4: dry out pretty quick. And we were always you know,
Speaker 4: you know, obviously in conjunction with Arnie, looking to try
Speaker 4: and get a firm, fast course and that's years in
Speaker 4: the making through top dressing. You know, even it had
Speaker 4: it been a green course, it would have still been
Speaker 4: quite firm. But we had managed that moisture, you know,
Speaker 4: kept it level and then just gradually brought it, brought
Speaker 4: it down, and we had a target in our in
Speaker 4: our in our heads, you know, where we would like
Speaker 4: to be, you know, with a moisture to get a
Speaker 4: certain firmness on the greens. But in reality, we we
Speaker 4: actually got dryer. We were able to keep things drier
Speaker 4: and firmer than we thought we could while still maintaining
Speaker 4: could toll of the turf. So the challenges you've got.
Speaker 4: You know, if things get dryer, things get faster and firmer.
Speaker 4: But if it gets that dry, your speed can sometimes
Speaker 4: get out of control. Get you know, you can't slow
Speaker 4: up again. But fortunately, you know, you know, we worked
Speaker 4: really closely with our ne agronomy team and we're taking
Speaker 4: moistures twice a day, really targeting in you know, certainly
Speaker 4: through the the week before the championship and championship week
Speaker 4: we revised our targets down the way more lower than
Speaker 4: Gordon Gordon McKay that the course manager and I would
Speaker 4: probably have ever envisage or been comfortable within the past.
Speaker 4: But when you see how how you know, had a
Speaker 4: resource to are disposable to manage it, you know, with
Speaker 4: all the handwatering in the evening, and we were able
Speaker 4: to keep with things really quite you know, dry and firm,
Speaker 4: but being complete ConTroll of green speeds. It was it
Speaker 4: was quite rewarding. But yeah, it would be lying if
Speaker 4: you said you were you know, you weren't concerned that
Speaker 4: you might not get the bounce back. But you know,
Speaker 4: as for the bounce back, you know, no problem at all.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: The sprinklers went on the Sunday night, really really, I
Speaker 4: guess that was the start of it.
Speaker 1: We got some rain the following week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was standing in the dorms looking out. I was,
Speaker 3: I was looking out over one in eighteen my window.
Speaker 3: And I remember I woke up Monday or Monday and
Speaker 3: I felt, you know, every morning I'd look out at
Speaker 3: the course and I felt like it looked like it
Speaker 3: had a little bit and it already started to have
Speaker 3: a little bit different color profile than the days before.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, things had been, like I say, things had
Speaker 4: been dry early early on, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Trying to think.
Speaker 4: I'm going to say it was two weeks before they open,
Speaker 4: two and a half weeks before they open. There was
Speaker 4: a wet weekend that we had, which is kind of
Speaker 4: set us back a little bit. You know, we thought
Speaker 4: things were just dialed in fine, we were just managing
Speaker 4: that moisture down and then we had a weekend a
Speaker 4: lot of rain and things really greened up, and we
Speaker 4: didn't really know if you know, things would get get
Speaker 4: act to where they had been. But it turns out
Speaker 4: the dead you know things you know, you could see
Speaker 4: every day things just drying out, drying out, and you're
Speaker 4: right through the championship days as well. You could tell,
Speaker 4: you could tell the difference. You know, there wasn't much
Speaker 4: grass coming off the surface, as I can tell you
Speaker 4: that it was. I had similar Knustian twenty eighteen. It
Speaker 4: was a similar kind of thing back then. Probably funny
Speaker 4: enough though there was probably slightly more intense heat back
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, which some of the fescue, a lot
Speaker 4: of golf courses in the UK suffered with recovery in
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen versus this year. From what I'm hearing, there's
Speaker 4: a lot a lot of the fescue really struggled. Then
Speaker 4: this year it seems to have coked a little bit better.
Speaker 4: I can't speak forevery I know down in South England
Speaker 4: some of the drought's been real bad this year and
Speaker 4: maybe they've lost a little bit more grass than we
Speaker 4: have up here, but no, in general, recovery has been
Speaker 4: has copd and be quite good.
Speaker 3: So next year, next year, now championships twenty twenty four,
Speaker 3: you got the Women's Women's Open.
Speaker 2: What is next year?
Speaker 3: Just imagine it's going to feel a little bit like
Speaker 3: a like a breeze compared to this year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we do have the Walker Cup next year on.
Speaker 2: The old I forgot about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's excited. That's hopefully relatively straightforward to prepare for.
Speaker 1: It's just early September, but that's like.
Speaker 3: The easiest, uh, I mean, there's gonna be the least
Speaker 3: amount of play ever on the oh of course, yeah
Speaker 3: for a week.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, the play four sums is, it's only
Speaker 4: four matches out and that I think, and then there'll
Speaker 4: be other ten is it ten singles?
Speaker 1: I forget each day, But yeah, we do have that.
Speaker 4: Although like I say that that should hopefully be relatively
Speaker 4: straight forward to prepare for. It's you know, just it's
Speaker 4: the same time we have the r and A meeting
Speaker 4: prepare for the start of September every year anyway, so
Speaker 4: it would just be it's just you know, keeping things
Speaker 4: a little bit finer in advance of that. But yeah,
Speaker 4: it's a busy year. Bookings sort of through the roof that.
Speaker 4: We expect it to be a busy year on the course.
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, we've got the women's in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 3: Thereafter match play at the old courses, I mean that
Speaker 3: they might be Everybody talks like, oh, it's a great
Speaker 3: great match player, like there might not be a better
Speaker 3: matchplay course in the world than than the old course.
Speaker 4: That's right, as well as a as a great course anyway,
Speaker 4: but that strategic element, you know, there's you know, so
Speaker 4: many different ways you can play some of the holes,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I can imagine there'll be some some great
Speaker 4: matches with that.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's something we're really really looking forward to.
Speaker 4: It's you know, we've held a lot of work Worker
Speaker 4: Cups here in the past, but a long time ago,
Speaker 4: you know, so you know, it's it's great to have
Speaker 4: the have them back here.
Speaker 3: The do you think they'll get a little bit more
Speaker 3: creative with setup, like using some some different TA boxes
Speaker 3: for that obviously, you know they won't have to worry
Speaker 3: about scoring and uh, people going bananas a lot.
Speaker 4: I should, I should imagine, so I know, and I
Speaker 4: keep papping back to Chinercia, but you know, the we
Speaker 4: had the Amatur Championship in twenty fifteen there and you know,
Speaker 4: mixed things up a little bit there, you know, you know,
Speaker 4: like I said, the third hole would put the tea
Speaker 4: markers forward to have them, you know, have a go
Speaker 4: at the green. I know some of actually the pros
Speaker 4: it off the back to you anyway in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 4: but yeah, I should imagine for a March play that
Speaker 4: there'll be some of the holes that you might you know,
Speaker 4: that might entice someone, you know, some sort of different shot.
Speaker 4: I guess it gets you just have to wait and see,
Speaker 4: but I should imagine.
Speaker 3: So all right, well, thank you so much, Sandy. It's
Speaker 3: been been great chatting with you. People can find you obviously,
Speaker 3: you know, buried in the offices that at Saint Andrews,
Speaker 3: but I appreciate the time.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: It was great meeting you this this summer, and I
Speaker 3: was glad we could do this, and congrats on really
Speaker 3: a terrific year in terms of championship golf and golf
Speaker 3: on TV. But you know, from everything I hear from
Speaker 3: people that have been over there, it's you know, the
Speaker 3: maintenance levels of all the courses have been just tremendous.
Speaker 3: So I appreciate your time and look forward to more
Speaker 3: conversations in the future.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Dave was a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to another edition of our Superintendent series.
Speaker 3: Today's episode was edited by Meg Atkins. Thank you Meg,
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