1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: Mother Knows Death presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. 2 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: On today's external Exam, we will be speaking with a 3 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: veteran news journalist who specializes in true crime. Her coverage 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: of stories such as the Idaho college student murders, the 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer, and the Scott Peterson trial and 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: conviction have earned her an Edward R. Merrow Award. Today, 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: we will discuss her career as a true crime journalist 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: and talk about some of the infamous cases she has covered. 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: Please welcome Laura Engel to the show. 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: Hello, thank you so much for having me. 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here. It's so crazy to 12 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: be talking to you right now, because I feel like 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: I know you. You've been covering these cases my entire 14 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: adult life. 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much. Yes, I've covered a lot, 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: and when I go back in my rolodex of true crime, 17 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: sometimes I go, wow, that was so long ago that 18 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: to me it feels like it was just yesterday. And 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these cases. 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think I was in my twenties. 21 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 2: I was in my early twenties when the whole Scott 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: Peterson thing happened. And just being here talking with you 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 2: today is just it's just crazy because I've, like I said, 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: I've seen you reporting on all these and I just 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: feel like I know you well. 26 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: Thank you very much that I appreciate that. 27 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 3: Your job is really cool. 28 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 2: And I always like to talk about careers that women 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: especially can get in this field, especially if they don't 30 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: like doing something as gruesome as my job. For example, 31 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: So how did you get into this field? I know 32 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: you got your start in radio, but when how old 33 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,639 Speaker 2: were you when you started working in radio? 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: I too, was in my early twenties, and I came 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: into this world of news reporting through of all things 36 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: rock and roll. I was a rock DJ at a 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: radio station in my hometown of Sacramento, California, and that's 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: really where I got my start. And it's a really 39 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: long story. I won't go into too much of it, 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: but I really only wanted to work at this radio 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: station because I wanted to be in the building with 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: my favorite DJs and all the rock stars would come 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: through and I would listen in my Mustang to all 44 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: the interviews, and I thought it was so cool, and 45 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: I really just wanted to answer the phones and take 46 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: out the garbage. And I ended up getting a job 47 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: working as a sales assistant because the one skill I 48 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: had I could type. I can type fast, and I 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: encourage anybody in high school to take that course because 50 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: it will pay off. It was one of the most 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: important things that I ever took in school. But I 52 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: got this job as a sales assistant. One day after 53 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: work and I was putting together sales pitches for the 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: sales team members I was working with, and somebody needed 55 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: a voice on a commercial. It was or super Shops, 56 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: this tire store, and I went in and I laid 57 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: down the track and somebody turned to me and they said, oh, 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: you should maybe do some radio. And that's how it 59 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: really started for me. And then one thing led to another, 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: and I ended up working overnights and then weekends, and 61 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: then I got a full time job being a DJ 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: at this rock radio station, and I was the night jock, 63 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: which meant I got to interview all of the cool 64 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 1: rock stars that were coming through to do shows in Sacramento. 65 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 1: My first interview was with White Zombie and then off 66 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: we went. So I did that for a really long 67 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: time until you know, as anybody who works in radio knows, 68 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: someday a new program director will come in and they'll 69 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: clean out shop, they'll switch things up, they'll bring in 70 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: their own people. And that's what happened to me. And 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: I was ushered out of that radio station and thought, 72 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, my wife is over. This is all 73 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: I know. But then I remembered that my grandmother had 74 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: always had this transistor radio on top of her washing machine, 75 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: and she listened to news radio, and I always found 76 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: it really fascinating. And so I started making calls and 77 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of did the same routine of calling and calling 78 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: and calling to see if I could get a job, 79 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: answering the phones, taking out the trash, really taking a 80 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: step back because I had a really big job on 81 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: the rock side of radio, and I had to start 82 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: all over and reinvent myself for news radio, which is 83 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: what I did. 84 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: I think a really important story of anyone that's really successful, 85 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: as you always hear that there was a point that 86 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: they went home and cried and said, oh my god, 87 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: my life is over, and I'm everything I worked for 88 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: is done. And it's just encouraging to hear because it 89 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: always gets better, you know. 90 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, in the moment, you know, in the moment, 91 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: I just thought everything I really did, I thought, what 92 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: am I going to do? This is all I know 93 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: how to do, This is all I want to do, 94 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: and I just couldn't see past it in those first 95 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: initial days a week. But then you just really have 96 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: to kind of quiet your mind and think, Okay, how 97 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: can I apply this skill set maybe in another way. 98 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: And at that time, for music radio, they just started 99 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 1: a lot of radio stations had just started doing automation, 100 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: which was you know, I actually got a quick job 101 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: at another radio station where I did five hours of 102 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: radio in five minutes. So I just read the in 103 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: and out in between the songs. They'd put it together 104 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: and they said bye, and I said, wait, how big 105 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: is the paycheck going to be? And so that really 106 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: worried me. And that's what really turned me on to news, 107 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: because I thought, well, there's always going to be a 108 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: need for news, you know, that's live and immediate. So 109 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: that's I just had to change my sights to that. 110 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: And I was very interested in that anyway. 111 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: And how long did you end up working in radio? 112 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: Oh? Boy, how long did I end up working in radio? 113 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: I would say fifteen seventeen years. I mean I'm still 114 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: doing radio today. 115 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, technically podcasts too, kind. 116 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've done a couple of podcasts on my own, 117 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: and I'm going to be doing one here this year 118 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: as well. Stay tuned. But yeah, since I was in 119 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: my early twenties, it's really always been a medium that 120 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 1: I have connected with. My dad always had the radio 121 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: on in the car instead of my mom, and so 122 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: it was just one of those things. It's so it's 123 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: a relatable, it's a relatable format, and it's something that 124 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: you can take anywhere. Nowadays, of course it's different, you 125 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: really can take it anywhere. But I just always loved it, 126 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: and I loved the theater of the mind, and that 127 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: was what really drew me to news radio in the 128 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: very beginning, because my first story were the floods of 129 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven and Sacramento, my hometown. The levees broke, 130 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: and all of our very skilled and very experienced news 131 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: reporters went out to all these different areas. So imagine 132 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: a major metropolitan area going underwater very quickly. A lot 133 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: of parts were going underwater. It was a huge problem. 134 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: So we had you know, Cammi Lloyd going to the 135 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: Office of Emergency Services. We had Kevin Kevin Burke going 136 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: to the state capitol. So everybody was being dispatched to 137 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: these really important places, and this phone call came into 138 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: the news room. I was literally the last person standing. 139 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: This phone call came in and they said, we've got 140 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: live stock drowning in the fields. Sacramento is a cow town. 141 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: My family actually has a cattle ranch. And they said, 142 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: what are we going to do? I mean, this is 143 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: not just a couple of cows. This is a lot 144 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: of live stock, horses and cows that were getting stuck 145 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: in the mud. And I remember my news director turned 146 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: around at this point. I was only really qualified to 147 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: answer the phones. And he turned around and he's like, 148 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: does anybody know anybody? I said, actually, I know somebody, 149 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: and he looked at me. He goes, yeah, but you're 150 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: a rock DJ. I said, listen, it's the same thing. Right. 151 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: When I was a rock DJ. I would go to 152 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: a show. I would interview rock stars backstage. I would 153 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: tell people what was going on. It's the same thing, 154 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: just with different players, right. He's like, I guess, oh ahead. 155 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: So he gave me a flip phone and a tape recorder, 156 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: and off I went. I called my uncle. He threw 157 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: me on a tractor and We went into the middle 158 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: of a of a big muddy field with the sound 159 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: the gnat sound of distressed cattle everywhere. I didn't even 160 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: need to use the tape deck and I just opened 161 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: up the phone and I started talking to the farmers 162 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: and the ranchers and just talking to them and holding 163 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: up the phone. And when I got back into the 164 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: newsroom absolutely covered in mud. I wore white shoes that day. 165 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: My converse. It was a disaster. And I got back 166 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: into the newsroom and he looked at me and he goes, okay, 167 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: all right, so you're a reporter now. And that's that's 168 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: how it started. 169 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 3: Oh god, I love that so much. 170 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 2: It's like having this confidence in yourself that you just 171 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: know that you're going to do a good job, and 172 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: you have to convince someone that you're at that level. 173 00:08:58,559 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 3: Is awesome. 174 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: Well, and the other my other little mantra in my 175 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: head I had at the time, somebody's got to do it. 176 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: It may as well be me, you know, because I've 177 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: learned from watching in newsrooms and in radio rock radio 178 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: stations that you know, somebody else is going to step 179 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: up to the plate. And it's hard. It's hard sometimes 180 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: to put your foot forward and raise your hand and say, wait, 181 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: I think I can do this because all they can 182 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: say is no, and all you can do is fail 183 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: and then try again and learn from it. 184 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a big thing, like just not taking 185 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: any kind of risk doesn't get you anywhere, and you 186 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: always have to expect to be told no. But take 187 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: the chance that because it like just that one chance 188 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: for you changed your whole entire course of your life. 189 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: You know it, did it? Really did? I mean I 190 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: think that news director who I'm still in touch with today, 191 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: we tell this story often about, you know, just this 192 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: crazy way it all started, and you know, had it 193 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: not been for that moment, had it not been for 194 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: those cows, who I can say most of them were 195 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: successfully removed from the mud with tractors and chains. Had 196 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: it not been for that moment, I really don't know. 197 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: I might still be answering phone somewhere. 198 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: It's interesting because everybody has either listened to radio or 199 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: even just watch the news, and you just see these 200 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: people on there all the time and it looks very natural, 201 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 2: but it's actually very hard to get whatever you're thinking 202 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 2: in your head out of your mouth in such a 203 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 2: way that you don't stutter, you don't say like a 204 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: million times. I'm guilty of that, of course, but just 205 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: being clear and concise all the time. It doesn't come 206 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 2: naturally to everyone, and you just make it look like 207 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: so easy, you know. 208 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: Oh that is so nice of you. Well, I think 209 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: the life experiences that we all have lead us to 210 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: where we are and give us that little bit of 211 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: history within ourselves and our own encyclopedia and rolodex of 212 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: what we can do, who we know, how we use 213 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: that information, and even you know, being able to talk 214 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: to you is to treat for me and to share 215 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: that story because to me, sometimes when people ask me, 216 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: I think you don't have time to listen to this 217 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: long drawn out story, and is it really even interesting 218 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: to you? But then I find out that it is interesting, 219 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: and I love being able to share it. And sometimes 220 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: people will ask me if i'll talk to I don't 221 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: actually do a lot of I don't go to high 222 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: schools or colleges, but I'm happy. I'm always happy to 223 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: talk to people, and if anybody ever wants to reach 224 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: out to me, you know, I'm happy to be a 225 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: sounding board because there is so much rejection in this 226 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: business that I've even just experienced in the last year. 227 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: I'm doing better this year, but last year was a 228 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: tough year for me. And you just have to get 229 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: back up and it can take you a minute, and 230 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 1: it's okay to be wounded, and it's okay to feel 231 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: that rejection because hopefully it will propel you to get 232 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: back up and be better in the next round in 233 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: the match. 234 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: I agree with that, And you just have to know 235 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 2: being a human that there's going to be really hard days. 236 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes hard years. 237 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: Like that's right, it's not perfect. And you know, I 238 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: have an eleven year old and he never says anything 239 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: like life isn't fair. But I told him before, like 240 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: nobody ever said life is going to be fair, and 241 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: we just have to find a way to navigate through 242 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: it all. And some days are better than others. I remember, 243 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: I've done a lot of really hard to report stories 244 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: and I've done some really fun ones. And there was 245 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: one period, there's one block of time where I got 246 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: to do this really cool story, which I could tell 247 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: you about later, but I got this really cool story 248 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: and then the next day I had to go stand 249 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: at a gas station in New Jersey on the turnpipe 250 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: with garbage around my feet and rats running around. I 251 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: looked at my camera. Man, I'm like, how did this 252 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: just happen? We were just doing this really cool thing. 253 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: He goes, Look, not every day is going to be 254 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: that day. You got to have these gas station days 255 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: to be able to do the other cool stuff too. 256 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of amazing. Actually, You're just like, how 257 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 2: did I end up here right now? 258 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: Like? 259 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: Why is this my life today? 260 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: Yes? 261 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: Yes, So you're working in radio all these years and 262 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 2: then you decide that you're going to start doing TV, 263 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 2: Like how did that transition? 264 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: A car. 265 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: A happy accident, a happy circumstance. I would say in 266 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: a dreadful story that I was covering in radio, so 267 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I worked at I mentioned that I was from Sacramento, 268 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: So I did ninety three Rock KRXQ. Then I did KFBK, 269 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: which is the big powerhouse news radio station, and then 270 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: I ended up moving to Los Angeles and working at 271 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty, which is a monster radio station 272 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: and one I'm proud that I've worked at all of 273 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: these radio stations. So I was working at KFI, and 274 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: I was covering an awful story in San Diego, and 275 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: it was one of the first big trials that I 276 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: covered for KFI of the David Westerfield trial, and he 277 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: was a man who was accused of kidnapping his six 278 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: year old neighbor out of her house while her parents 279 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: were partying in the garage. Upscale, nice, beautiful neighborhood, did 280 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: really bad things to her and left her out in 281 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: the desert. So I was covering that story and I 282 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: was asked to go down there. My car had been 283 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: breaking down. Living in Los Angeles, driving to San Diego 284 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: is a far drive. If anybody's done it, you know 285 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: how hard that is and how hot it is. And 286 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: I was in Los Angeles and I had told my boss. 287 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: I said, my car is not going to make it 288 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: back and forth, and my jeep is not making it. 289 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: And he said, well, I can't really give you one 290 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: of our news cars, which are the cars with all 291 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: the bells and whistles. He said, but our sister station 292 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: has a vehicle that I think that we could probably 293 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: let you use because it's off season. I said, what 294 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: is it. He goes, well, it's our sports station that 295 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: does the Dodgers. I said, oh, that's cool, that's great. 296 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: So he hands me the keys and I go out 297 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: and it is a VW bug that is painted like 298 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: a baseball. So I drive a baseball down to a 299 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: murder trial in San Diego, which is a devastating story 300 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: to tell, but I'm here. I am in a baseball. 301 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: So I drive down and I'm doing my radio thing. 302 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: I and when we do radio in the car, you know, 303 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: I've got the headset on, I've got my tape decks 304 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: that are plugged into the phones, and I'm talking about 305 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: being in the courtroom and what I'm observing and all 306 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: of the different forensics. There was a lot of bug 307 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: evidence in that case. And I was talking about, you know, 308 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: the nuances of watching the victim's family looking at the defendant, 309 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: talking about the attorneys and the and the wild people 310 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: that they were calling to the stand. And I got 311 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: a knock on my baseball car door and it was 312 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: somebody from Fox News who was a producer who had 313 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: been listening to me on that long drive back and forth, 314 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: and said, hey, we've found you because somebody said they're 315 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: the radio reporters and the baseball we want you to 316 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: come on our show today. And it was with Shepherd Smith, 317 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: and I said, oh, well, I do radio and they said, well, 318 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: it's fine, you just come. Well, you'll sit down, you'll 319 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: do fifteen minutes. It'll be great. And I said, okay, 320 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: And of course i'm radio. So I'm in, you know, 321 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: a T shirt and shorts. My hair's in a ponytail. 322 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: And my friend that was working at Court TV in 323 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: the satellite truck next to me looked at me. He said, 324 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: you gotta go to the mall. You gotta gos like 325 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: you can't do this, and I said okay. So I 326 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: ran across the street to Ann Taylor. I bought a 327 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: blazer and he said, let me have my person put 328 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: some makeup on your face. Let's do this. So I 329 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: did some makeup. I was so nervous. I went out 330 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: and I talked on television about the trial, but I 331 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: was covering, and I was so relieved when it was over. 332 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: I took that thing called an IFB, which I'd never 333 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: used before, out of my ear. I was like going 334 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: back to my baseball. And then I turned and they 335 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: said same time tomorrow, and I said, well, I only 336 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: have the one blazer, that's all I got. This isn't 337 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: going to work out. But I started doing that and 338 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: then the same sort of thing happened when we wrapped 339 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: up that trial, and then the Scott Peterson case happened, 340 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 1: and when Scott Peterson was first arrested, we had the 341 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: preliminary hearing in Modesto before the trial was moved to 342 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: Redwood City, and I was in the back of a 343 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: van that we had made into a radio station, my 344 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: engineer and I and I had the side panel open 345 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: and news anchor Greta Ancestron, who I'm still friends with 346 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: in Forever Indebted to Today, was watching me. And she 347 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: was standing there in her suit in her chain, and 348 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: she said, what are you doing? And I said, you know, 349 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm broadcasting, and she just stood there and she listened 350 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: to me and the same thing. She said, I want 351 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 1: you on my show. You've been in the courtroom. I 352 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: need the eyes and ears. Can you join our show? 353 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: And so I'm thinking, do I still have the blazer? 354 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: I go out and I sat on the director's chair 355 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: and then that is really what started it all for me. 356 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: Greta took me under her wind. She wanted me on 357 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,159 Speaker 1: her show every night, and I became part of her panel, 358 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: and that is how I got into television. 359 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: That's such a cool story. Did you feel just because 360 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 2: you're so used to not having to make eye contact 361 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 2: with a camera and knowing that they're looking at your 362 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 2: face talking and everything. 363 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 3: Was that weird for you to get used to it first? 364 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: Yes, yes it was. But I mean I was so 365 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: comfortable with Greta and Claudia Cowan, the reporter that was there, 366 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: and the lawyers that I had been side by side 367 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: working with, and really because it was not directly talking 368 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: to camera, it was having a conversation. You just look. 369 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: You just think of the camera being an extra person 370 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: at the cocktail party, you know, like, I'm talking to Greta, 371 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: but I want to talk to you. I want to 372 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: bring you into the conversation. I keep talking to Greta 373 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: and I might I might look back at the person 374 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: at the cocktail party, which is the camera. That's how 375 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: I always used to kind of phrase it when I 376 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: was doing a panel, and you know, I was very nervous, 377 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean those first few weeks, you know, 378 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: I had never done it before, and here it was 379 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: the biggest story. We were watching it. I mean it 380 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: was the biggest story not only in the United States, 381 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: in the world. I Mean, we had people watching it 382 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: all over the planet. We knew that once the verdict came, 383 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: which was obviously much later, but people we had images 384 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: from military bases around the world that wore to collude 385 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: to this case. So it was a very very big 386 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: deal and a great opportunity for me to be able to, 387 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: you know, use this medium. And really when it all started, 388 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: and I want to say this about the victims that 389 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: we talk about and cover. When I first went to 390 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: Modesto to cover the story in the first place, it 391 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: was because I wanted to help. And that's something that 392 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: we can do as reporters and anchors and podcasters is 393 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, spread the word, get the information out, get 394 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: the pictures out. That's what I wanted to do in 395 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: that case, was and then I felt being a part 396 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: of Greta's panel and being a part of that channel 397 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: at the time, you know, was a way that I 398 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: could help do that. 399 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've covered such amazing news stories, not amazing 400 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 2: but also infamous murder cases throughout my entire life, like 401 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: Hurricane Katrina and Michael Jackson molestation case, Lacy Peterson, as 402 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: you've been talking about Long Island serial killer, Idaho murderers, 403 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 2: Gabby Petito and yeah, sometimes you're there before. Like with 404 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: Lacy Peterson, for example, you were reporting on her while 405 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 2: she was missing, before her body was even found, so 406 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 2: your reporting really could have helped find her body. And 407 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: it's the same with Gabby Petito too, correct, that's right. 408 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. I went down up to Modesto from Los Angeles, 409 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: and being from Sacramento, Medesto is a very short drive 410 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: and I'd asked my news director, I said, please let 411 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 1: me go. There's a missing woman. It's Christmas. This I 412 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: know this area. This is not your average missing person case. 413 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: And we actually got in a pretty big fight about it, 414 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: and he said, listen, the only reason that you care 415 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: about this case is because you're from Sacramento. It's going 416 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: to die down. It's going to be ja Is said. 417 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: And I don't think so. I don't think so. You 418 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: have to let me go. And we got into such 419 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: a scrap about it. I said, I'll tell you what. 420 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: I quit. I will will I will quit just for now. 421 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: I will pause my employment here. I will go to 422 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: Modesto and I will cover the story as a stringer, 423 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: meaning I'll string it out to other radio stations and 424 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: people who want the story. And then when I'm done, 425 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 1: I'll come back. How about that? And I'll string for you. 426 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: I'll string for Kfi. And he's like, you can go, fine, 427 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: just go for a little bit and we'll see what happens. 428 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 1: But that was the mission because she actually reminded me 429 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: of my best friend who was pregnant at the time, 430 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: who had another big, beautiful smile and beautiful husband, and like, 431 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: none of it made sense and how could this be? 432 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: And there's you know, and we've talked to Gabby Patito's 433 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: parents about this. There's so many and they are doing 434 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: such an amazing job of shining the light on other 435 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: cases because you get this story that the media fa 436 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: fixates on and people say, well, why was it lazy Peterson? 437 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: It was, you know, for all the reasons that we've 438 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: talked about. She yes, of course she was beautiful, but 439 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: it was Christmas, she was eight and a half months pregnant, 440 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: her husband was, you know, good looking. Alibi didn't make sense, 441 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: Like there was a lot of reasons why just it 442 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: worked that way. But in taking that kind of a 443 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: story coverage and then putting it, you know, trying to 444 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: give some of that light to others. Many people are 445 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: very aware of that myself included that that type of 446 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: coverage needs to go to other places as well. So 447 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: it's something that we can do in the press. Get 448 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: those numbers out, get those pictures out, and try and 449 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: help the best we can. 450 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: Out Of all these stories that you've covered over the years, 451 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 2: was there any that you felt a particular like passion? 452 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously the Scott Peterson case you just mentioned. 453 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 2: Were there any other ones or even that one, Like, 454 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 2: what was it about them that just made you so 455 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 2: connected to a particular story. 456 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: Well, the Scott Peterson one I mentioned, and that I 457 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: call that one my twenty year story because I've been 458 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: covering Scott Peterson since the day Lacy Peterson went missing. 459 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm still covering Peterson today. On July fifteenth, I will 460 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: be back. I'm going home to see my family in Sacramento, 461 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: as I do in every July, and I'm going to 462 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 1: drive down to Redwood City and I will be at 463 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: his hearing, which is one of the last three big 464 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: hearings he has with the La Innocence Project. I will 465 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: be back covering that case. It is a case that 466 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: I will cover for the rest of my life. That 467 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: I will I know the other stories that I have 468 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: covered in great detail. The Long Island serial killer, which 469 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: I'm deeply involved with right now, is a big one, 470 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: but going back the Yosemite murders was a big one 471 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: for me. That was Carrie Stainer, And if you remember, 472 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: he was the handsome handyman at the motel at the 473 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: Sea Lodge near the entrance of Yosemite. And there was 474 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: a mom, her daughter, and her daughter's best friend that 475 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: were having a beautiful summer and a beautiful trip together 476 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: when tragedy struck and their bodies were found. And that 477 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: was one that I covered extensively, going back to Yosemite 478 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: to cover it while the investigation was ongoing. And that 479 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: one was super creepy because, as it turned out, Carrie Stainer, 480 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: who was the hotel handyman at the place where the 481 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: girls were staying, had taken their wallets and driven to 482 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: of all places, modesto and thrown their wallets out the door, 483 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: out the window at a traffic stop in an area 484 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: that was known to be just completely involved with meth 485 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: activity meth heads. And I remember calling the FBI saying, 486 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: I want to go cover this case, but I'm a 487 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: little you know, what happened to these women was horrific, 488 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: and he said, you know, look they're going to be 489 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: we know who they are. It's meth heads. Don't worry 490 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,160 Speaker 1: about it. So off I went to the Cedar Lodge 491 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 1: and I stayed there while Carrie Stanner was still working 492 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: there and was roaming around the parking lot with my 493 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 1: tape recorder as a radio reporter, talking to people. Do 494 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: you feel safe and how has this affected you in 495 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: your travel? And how you keep your family you know, safe, 496 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: and how do you manage this part of the trip 497 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: now that this horrible y ASSEMBI story has happened. So 498 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: Carrie Stander was still there, we saw him in the 499 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: parking lot. I mean, that was a crazy story and 500 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: that trial and the sentencing, that legal part was very hard. 501 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: And also the Connecticut home invasion case was another big 502 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: case that I covered, and that was another story that 503 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: has really stayed with me. People have asked me before, 504 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: like what story keeps you up at night? What is 505 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: it that you can't unsee? The Connecticut home invasion case 506 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: of the Pettit family is one that has been very 507 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: very hard for me to unsee pictures of what happened 508 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: inside of that house and Lacy Peterson autopsy photos that 509 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: were shown in court. I also can't unsee that. 510 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of the questions that I was 511 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: going to ask you, is because I regular people that 512 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: watch you on the news, they hear these stories, but 513 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 2: they don't get to see all of the the information 514 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: that comes with the case. 515 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 3: And you get special access to. 516 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: More not only more of the story, but crime scene 517 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: photos and autopsy photos. And I know that even a 518 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 2: person that's used to seeing them all the time, there's 519 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: still some stuff that I see that I'm like, oh 520 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 2: my god, that's that's really graphic or gruesome. I can't 521 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 2: believe somebody did that to another person. So you're saying 522 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 2: the Lacy Peterson one really really bothered you. And I'm 523 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 2: not one hundred percent familiar with the Connecticut home invasion story. 524 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: What was it about that that was so disturbing? 525 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: The Connecticut home invasion? And yes, and just to and 526 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: put a on the Lacy Peterson story, that was very 527 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 1: difficult because I was so deeply invested in that story, 528 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: and because I was sitting behind her mother and her 529 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: family members, her stepfather, her dad, her sister, her brother, 530 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: and to watch them. They actually left the room, and 531 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: the autopsy photos were shown in court, but the rest 532 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: of us saw it and it was horrific. She was 533 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: in the water for three months and as we know, 534 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: she was missing her head and her hands and her feet, 535 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: and so it was a pretty gruesome thing that the jurors. 536 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: I mean, these are people that are chosen and they 537 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: get the jury summons, and you know, they're affected for 538 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives. I said that when I 539 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: was covering the Trump trial that when you're a juror, 540 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: you are that juror for the rest of your life. 541 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: It's the information that you've absorbed and obtained and that 542 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: you think about. The Connecticut home invasion case was a 543 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,239 Speaker 1: story about a mother and her two daughters who had 544 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: gone grocery shopping and they had gone back to their 545 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: affluent neighborhood home, but they had been cased by these 546 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: two bad guys, Steven Hayes and Joshua Comers, the jef Ski, 547 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: and they followed the girls home and they're like, oh, 548 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: that's a good looking house. Yeah, we're going to hit 549 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: that house, and so they hit the house. The dad, 550 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: doctor Pettitt, who survived the attack, was in the basement 551 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: watching TV. They broken through an open door or window. 552 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: They broken through the basement and they got in and 553 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: they beat doctor Pettitt within an inch of his life, 554 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: tied them up, went upstairs and tied the two daughters, 555 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: the young daughters up to their beds, and did bad 556 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: things to everybody, and took the mom to the bank, 557 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: made her withdraw cash. They said, well, let everybody go. 558 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 1: They got back to the house and the mom, missus Pettitt, 559 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: did alert the bank and was terrified and said, you know, 560 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: I need you to know what's going on. The police 561 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: eventually came to the house, and the two bad guys 562 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: panicked and they lit the house on fire with everybody 563 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: tied up, and the cops didn't go in right away, 564 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: and they were waiting for somebody that was higher up 565 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: to come in and charge the house. And they waited 566 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: too long and they died. And so and that was 567 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: those inside scenes of that home and knowing what happened 568 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: and being you know, knowing what happened with law enforcement. 569 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: There were a lot of people that tried to do 570 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: the right thing and it happens. But man, that was 571 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: a really, really tough case. And Joshua Comor Zajevski, one 572 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: of the suspects now convicted killer. I went to both trials. 573 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: It was two trials for two men. I went to 574 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: both trials. Then I went to both sentencing hearings. They 575 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: were all it was all really long. It took a 576 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: really long time to get through it all. But one 577 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: of the things that the suspects did is it was 578 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: revealed to get a diary, and so I actually, you know, 579 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: I wish I had had an assistant or somebody, but 580 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: I went through and I typed with those typing skills. 581 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: I went through and I transcribed every single thing that 582 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: he wrote in his diary about before the case, about 583 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: how he would stock victims, how he would pick his 584 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: homes that he was going to break into. He was 585 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: primarily a burglar. And so I went through because it 586 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: was like this guide. And so I forever tell people 587 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: to close their shades at night, because what he would 588 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: do is go around the neighborhoods and he said, everybody 589 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: has their drapes open. It's like windows shopping. I get 590 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: to go around and see what people have in their homes. 591 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: And I watched them press their codes to their alarms, 592 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: and you know, that was I immediately felt like I 593 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: had to write that down and put that out into 594 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: the world. So I transcribed his diary as as a 595 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: warning to the public about how some of these people 596 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: do those things. 597 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 2: It's scary that that people like that also make friends, 598 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 2: that they get together and do things like that. It's 599 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: just you you could almost justify one person be having 600 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 2: like really sick thoughts and and but then when they 601 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: meet up together, it's it's just it really is scary, 602 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: you know. 603 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. It is that's you know. And that's 604 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: the thing. I mean, you want to believe in the 605 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: good and everybody. But as we keep moving through these 606 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: years together as humans, and we keep reporting on these stories, 607 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: you know, that is why your mother tells you to 608 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: call you when you get into the house, and it 609 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: is why your mother tells you to lock the door 610 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: behind you. You know, it is those are the reasons, 611 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: because we know of the evil in the world, and 612 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: you try to give your kids and your loved ones 613 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: the you know, be cool, be careful. And I went 614 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: up to Chico and a good friend of mine, I 615 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: went and spent the night at her house and she 616 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: I went down, I said, are we going to go 617 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: lock the door. She goes, oh, we don't lock the 618 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: doors around here. I was like, oh, getting and I 619 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: snuck downstairs and I locked all the doors. Said, so, yeah, 620 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that it's it's important to share. 621 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: You try not to get yourself too freaked out by 622 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: the bad in the world, but it's important to keep 623 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: the as I say, here in New York when you're 624 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: on the subway, eyes up. 625 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 2: So you mentioned locking the doors and shutting the drapes. 626 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you do at your house 627 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: all the time that maybe even like your husband or 628 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: your kid are like all right, mom, like relax, this 629 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 2: isn't gonna happen. 630 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: On the daily as a matter of fact. 631 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: No. 632 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't draw, you know, I don't pull 633 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: all the drapes, but I'm I'm mindful of it. I 634 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: am mindful of that, and I do share, you know. 635 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: But I like having And the thing that is terrible 636 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: is I like having my shades open. I like looking 637 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: at the twinkly lights across the street and the leaves 638 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: as they turn color as the sun sets. And I 639 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: do you know, I don't do it all the time, 640 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: but I just I'm mindful of it. And not for nothing. 641 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: That's the way the Yosemite case happened. Carol Sun and 642 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: her daughters were in a motel room with their drapes open, 643 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: and Carrie Stainer, the handyman, was walking around the parking 644 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: lot and he was looking in the windows to see 645 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: if there were any women that he could see without men. 646 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: He admitted to that, he told Tud Rollins of CNN, 647 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: and that was part of his confession, is that's how 648 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: he picked his victims. Like he just walked around and 649 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: when the windows are open and whatever, and it's terrible. 650 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to live like that, but I want 651 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: to be mindful of it as well. So I would 652 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: say locking doors. You know, we had a car broken 653 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: into recently after about to lock the door. You know, 654 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: just lock the doors, pull the drapes, be mindful of 655 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: your surroundings. Those are most most of the things that 656 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: I harp on a lot. 657 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 2: My dad always taught us not to lock our car 658 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: doors because he said, if anybody's gonna want to come 659 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: into your car, at least they won't break the window 660 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 2: and you won't have to pay for that. But I'm like, 661 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 2: but they'll steal I don't know that was always his theory. 662 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: If you love this podcast, you are going to love 663 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: the gross Room. There are thousands of videos, posts, photos 664 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: of all different things that have to do with pathology. 665 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: Plus there is no censorship, so we could talk about 666 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 2: anything that we want to without how having to have 667 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 2: the limitations with social media. You can join now for 668 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: only five ninety nine a month, and this gives you 669 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: access to all of the posts going back to twenty 670 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 2: and nineteen. Join the grosser Room dot com today. The 671 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 2: whole Idaho murder thing happened back in twenty twenty two. 672 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: I was of course glued to that because it just 673 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 2: was so bizarre the circumstances surrounding it. And it was 674 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 2: even more bizarre that it seemed that for almost over 675 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: a month they didn't have any suspects, although they did 676 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: the entire time, we just didn't know about it. 677 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 3: And I'll never forget. 678 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 2: We were going to Florida during Christmas break to visit 679 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 2: my father in law, and we were in the car 680 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 2: and they I saw the news alert come through that 681 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 2: said that they caught the suspect, and there was a 682 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 2: lapse of like a half hour before they actually posted 683 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 2: a picture of them. And when I saw Brian Coberger's picture. 684 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: I'm not lying to you. His eyes I scared the 685 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 2: shit out of me. There was just something about him 686 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 2: that I was like, Oh my god. It bothered me 687 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: so bad to the point where I had I actually 688 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 2: had a hard time sleeping for the next. 689 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 3: Two nights because it just was very scary to me. 690 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 2: Have you ever had a person that you've covered that 691 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 2: you got that vibe from or or because I know 692 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 2: you interview a lot of people associated with these cases too, 693 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,439 Speaker 2: have you ever interviewed someone that really just like gave 694 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: you the creeps or made you feel uneasy? 695 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 3: You know? 696 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: The one that I've recently interviewed was photos Dulos, And 697 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: if you're familiar with that story, he was the estranged 698 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: husband of a mother of five in New Canaan, Connecticut, 699 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos, whose body still today has not yet been found. 700 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: He and I spent probably thirteen hours together in his 701 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 1: very upscale home in Connecticut talking. He was everybody thought 702 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,720 Speaker 1: he did it, you know that It just it seemed 703 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: as though he was the most likely suspect. They were 704 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: going through a horrible divorce, and I had I had 705 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: been trying to get that interview, and I had hung 706 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: out at the courthouse and lurked and lurked and lurked 707 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: and tried to get him to talk to me, and 708 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: I finally did and we had a very long conversation. 709 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: He was super standed offish in the beginning, but then 710 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: warmed up. But I did talk to I mean, I 711 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: sat from him, you know, need to knee. We were 712 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: in in his parlor and we had had this really 713 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: long interview set up, and I asked him point blade 714 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: to his face, and it was probably the first time 715 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: that I've done that. I've yelled down when prisoners or 716 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 1: suspects are coming in through the sally port, when they're 717 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: going into trial or going into a courtroom. I've been 718 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: one of those reporters that yells out, you know, why 719 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: did you do it? Or you know, what do you 720 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,440 Speaker 1: have to say for yourself. I've done that, But this 721 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: is where it's just me and him with our crew, 722 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 1: face to face, eyeball to eyeball, and I said, you know, 723 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,480 Speaker 1: you did you have anything to do with Jennifer's disappearance? 724 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: Just looking at him and watching him watch me, and 725 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: we just kind of had this moment and it was 726 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: really disconcerting because he is very charming. Many people would 727 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: describe him as a good looking man. And all of 728 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: these cases, a lot of these cases I should say 729 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: that I've covered, are the unsuspecting good looking man, right, 730 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: you know, you go back to Ted Bundy. I mean, 731 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: there's that's the part of the boogeyman that is so scary, 732 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: or the person that can snap and do something so horrific. 733 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: I mean, Jennifer Doulos was attacked in the garage of 734 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: her home and lost a lot of blood, and he 735 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: is believed to have attacked her in a way that 736 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: she lost almost all of her blood. So it's horrendous 737 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: to think when you look at somebody like, how could 738 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: you do that? Did you do that? What did you do? 739 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 1: How did you get rid of the body? You know? 740 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: And that was what was going through my mind the 741 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: whole time. And I'm talking and I don't know if 742 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: you've ever had this this happened to you, where you're 743 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: talking to somebody and you hear yourself saying the words, 744 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: and you hear what they're saying, but your mind is 745 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: going so fast because you know all the horrors of 746 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: the story that you're talking about. And I just kept 747 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: looking at him, thinking those hands that he's talking to 748 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: you know, like, as he's talking with his hands, are 749 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: these the hands that strangled Jennifer, that stabbed her? Are 750 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: these the hands that did that? As I'm talking, as 751 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: he's talking to me and we're mostly talking about financial records, 752 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 1: that's what's going through my mind. And then after we 753 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,919 Speaker 1: were done, he asked if he could make us dinner 754 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: in his home. He said, let me make you some 755 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,880 Speaker 1: pasta and I say, you know, I don't think not today, 756 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 1: thank you. And then he called me on Christmas. It 757 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: was I had interviewed him just a few days before Christmas. 758 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: He called me on Christmas and he wanted to know 759 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: how I was doing, and I said, how are you doing? 760 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 1: And then he said where are you? And I said 761 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: where are you? And we had this really and he said, 762 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: I'm just looking for I just wanted to wish your 763 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: family merry Christmas and tell you that I look forward 764 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,479 Speaker 1: to talking to you again when I can review more. 765 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: I said okay, and then he killed himself the next month. Wow, 766 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,800 Speaker 1: So that was just crazy. I mean, he killed himself 767 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 1: in the house that I had interviewed him at. So 768 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 1: that one has really stuck with me. 769 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see why. 770 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,919 Speaker 2: I know how you feel, though, because the first time 771 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 2: I ever went to court with the medical examiner to 772 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 2: watch this is when I was a student. I went 773 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 2: to watch the medical examiner testify. H It was a 774 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 2: very surreal feeling to be in the room with someone 775 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 2: that I know killed somebody. I mean, it's it just 776 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 2: I kept staring at the guy and just thinking like, 777 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 2: oh my god, this guy killed a human. It just 778 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 2: was really of different experience than listening to these stories 779 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,040 Speaker 2: because you're like you're seeing them in person and exactly thinking. 780 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: Like the case that I was at was a manual 781 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 2: strangulation case, and I did keep staring at his hands 782 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 2: and saying like, this guy in his hands killed this 783 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 2: woman and her whole family was on the other side 784 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,719 Speaker 2: of the room crying, and it just was it was 785 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: just really surreal. So I understand that completely. 786 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's and I've been experiencing that with Rex Huerman, 787 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: the Long Island serial killer suspect, And I've been at 788 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: all of his court appearances but one. And you know, 789 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: when he walks into the room, he's not just tall, 790 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: he is a large human being, right, He's so big 791 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: that It takes two sets of handcuffs to have him 792 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: cuffed behind his back. They have to put one around 793 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: one wrist, one around the other, and then they connect 794 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: the two behind his back. That's how big he is. 795 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: All of his victims were one hundred pounds in maybe 796 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: five feet on the average. So when I look at 797 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: him and I think of that, and now we have this, 798 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, shopping list and to do list that he 799 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: that he alleged allegedly had on his hard drives, I 800 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: just can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking 801 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: about what he did to them, how long he kept 802 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: them alive if true. You know, those are the things 803 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: that you think about when you're in this courtrooms and 804 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: the victims' families are there, Like you said, like you know, 805 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: you're looking at him, you're listening to the charges. You're 806 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,959 Speaker 1: looking over at the victims' family members and the GILG case. 807 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: They look back at us, and then you feel bad 808 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: because you're there. You're there doing your job, you know, 809 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: and you're not trying to stare. You're just trying to 810 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: report who's in the courtroom and what the reaction is 811 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: because that's what people want to know, and that's what 812 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: we're there to do and you know, and maybe even 813 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: get some more details out because maybe there's more victims 814 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: in that case. 815 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 2: Yes, So do you want to tell everyone a little 816 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 2: bit about because you just recently did like a five 817 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 2: part documentary on this case as well as a podcast series. 818 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 2: Have you caught up to the more recent news of 819 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 2: that there might be even more victims than originally thought. 820 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: I think that this is going to be one of 821 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: the most prolific serial killer cases in our history. I 822 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: think with the now charge of Sandra Castillo in nineteen 823 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: ninety three, that tells us a lot. I think that 824 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: we are going to find out more. I mean, is 825 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: it possible that this is it the sixth but I 826 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: think that this is going to tell us that he may, 827 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: you know. I think there's some kind of a stat 828 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: that serial killers on average start killing in their mid twenties, 829 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, and the information that was found around Sandra 830 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: Castillo tells us that he might have killed her when 831 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: he was living with somebody else before his wife that 832 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: we know now Asa Elera. There were other people that 833 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: were living in his home and those fibers have been 834 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: connected to that case. So that's nineteen ninety three, So 835 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: what was happening before that? And then when he was 836 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: married to Asa everything happened when she was out of town. 837 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: And I said this on the air with Chris Cuomo 838 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: the other night, I said, how many trips did she take? 839 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know now that I'm sure in the 840 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,800 Speaker 1: Suffolk County dis Attorney's Office and the Gilgo Beach Homicide 841 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: tak Force have done an incredible job. But I'm sure 842 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: they're overlaying, you know, the time frames of the calendars 843 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: of the family trips and the people missing, and trying 844 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: to figure out just how deep this is really going 845 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,240 Speaker 1: to go. But I think that we're many people covering 846 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: the case believe that this is going to be this 847 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: is going to be a big one, even bigger. 848 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,440 Speaker 2: One. Thing I think that is weird about this case 849 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 2: is the whole aspect of his. 850 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 3: Family living in the house. 851 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,360 Speaker 2: Do you think that there's something like, obviously, the guy's 852 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 2: a serial killer, so he's a total he's probably a 853 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 2: total weirdo in real life, aside from this murdering thing 854 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 2: he does on the side. So I could see being 855 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 2: married to a person like that and then raising children 856 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 2: when you're like that, they can be all a little 857 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 2: odd too. I just think there's it wasn't even one 858 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 2: of the cases that the wife's DNA was found on 859 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 2: one of the girl's bodies. But I know that doesn't 860 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 2: necessarily mean anything because if it was done in. 861 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 3: Her home, her hair might have been around the house 862 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:15,280 Speaker 3: or whatever. 863 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what we're saying. They've actually kind of almost 864 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: created well not almost, they did. They created a glossary 865 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: in the last bill application for these two latest charges 866 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: about what hair was with what victim, on what belt 867 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 1: there was a belt. But yeah, also Ellerup's hair believed 868 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,919 Speaker 1: to the it is ninety nine point nine point six 869 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: percent possible that it's her hair, right, So they can't 870 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: say with one hundred percent certainty they have to say that. 871 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: But it matches her DNA, it matches her makeup. So 872 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: I mean to think about what could have happened in 873 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,719 Speaker 1: the house, what happened to these victims, how they were 874 00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,360 Speaker 1: kept alive, murdered, tortured, disposed of. It all comes down 875 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,879 Speaker 1: to one hair on each victim, one random hair. I mean, 876 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: the hair on Jessica Taylor in Manorville was found underneath 877 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: her body on a plastic sheet on a surgical sheet, 878 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: they said, so it was a piece of plastic and 879 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: then this one little minuscule hair and then her remains. 880 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: So my goodness, what steps were taken to conceal any evidence? 881 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: A lot? Right, But there was one hair that was missed, 882 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: so we're gonna have to wait and see. But it's 883 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: really dark stuff. 884 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 3: Yeah it is. 885 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 2: And I just think like that when I see the 886 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 2: kids how old they are. 887 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 3: They're old. 888 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 2: They look like they're I don't know exactly how old 889 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 2: they are, but they look like they're like in between 890 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,240 Speaker 2: twenty and thirty years old. I'm just like, you guys 891 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 2: were living in the house with this going on, and 892 00:45:55,280 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 2: you didn't, like, there's nothing that was abnormal about your 893 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,839 Speaker 2: living situation. Like I would just really like to talk 894 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 2: to them and just what's a regular day? Do you 895 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 2: go home? Do you guys eat dinner together? Like what's 896 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,520 Speaker 2: happening in that house? 897 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 3: You know? 898 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have that very question. 899 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:19,280 Speaker 1: And we've talked a lot to Robert Macedonio, who represents USA. 900 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: The adult children have a different lawyer, but they have 901 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,480 Speaker 1: all said the same thing that they were completely unaware 902 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,600 Speaker 1: of what was going on. And we've heard this before 903 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: with other serial killers, that they are living a double life, 904 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: and some people are really good at it. Rex Huerman 905 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: was an architect, you know, he had critical thinking skills. 906 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: He worked in the basement. And look, we've seen photos 907 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,400 Speaker 1: of the house. I've been at the house several times. 908 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: We've seen some images of what the backyard looks like. 909 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: Dad's workshop. I mean, if you've got a messy basement, 910 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: if you're a kid, I don't think you're going down 911 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: there a lot to look at what's down there. Maybe 912 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: he kept them out, not really sure. Maybe he sat 913 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: up got my guns down there. We know that he 914 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,399 Speaker 1: had almost three hundred guns. So why you know why 915 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,800 Speaker 1: that was we still don't know. But you know, I 916 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,120 Speaker 1: don't know the answer to that, I think. I mean, 917 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm in line right there with you. I would love 918 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 1: to talk to them individually and find out what they 919 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,760 Speaker 1: could tell us. I can tell you that from talking 920 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,279 Speaker 1: to Bob Macedonia, the attorney, that they are completely traumatized. 921 00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they just got moved back in. And remember 922 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: the first time they did the raid in July of 923 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: last year. They were cutting out pipes, they were taking 924 00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: out the tub, they were you know, taking apart the mattress. 925 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,720 Speaker 1: They were ripping up the floorboards, and then they left, 926 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: and then the family has to go back there, and 927 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 1: people are like, why don't they go somewhere else? I 928 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: think they don't have anywhere else to go. Number one. 929 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: And but you know more, a lot of people say, well, 930 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,319 Speaker 1: I would get a hotel or whatever, but things get 931 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: expensive quickly, and then there goes your primary caregiver for money. 932 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: So there's a lot to them there. There's a lot 933 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: we don't know or understand. But it's my understanding that 934 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: just before the second rate happened last month, that they 935 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 1: were just getting kind of the knickknacks back in order upstairs, 936 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: that they were just kind of starting to get everything 937 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,719 Speaker 1: back together. They had just done some remodeling, not remodeling, 938 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: but you know, I don't know, changed out a rug, 939 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: got a different bed, whatever it was. They were just 940 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: getting things settle and then knock knock, and here is 941 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,319 Speaker 1: the task force again, and off they go. But they 942 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 1: primarily did their work in the basement. That we know 943 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 1: that most of what was upstairs was not touched and 944 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: that a lot of that search concentrated on the basement. 945 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,040 Speaker 1: And it's from what we've heard they were taking down 946 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,280 Speaker 1: wall panelings, they were taking ceiling parts, they were looking 947 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: for pushpin holes for the plastic drapes that he was using. 948 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: Pretty brutal stuff. 949 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it is really a mind blowing case to 950 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 2: think that this has been happening all these years. 951 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 3: And I mean, thank God for DNA. 952 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: Right. 953 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 3: I think we always say that there's there's two groups 954 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 3: of people. 955 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 2: There's people that murdered people, and then people that had 956 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 2: children with one guy and told another guy that it 957 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 2: was their baby or something. All these dirty secrets are 958 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 2: going to start coming out over the next you know, 959 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,480 Speaker 2: twenty years or so that people thought that they were 960 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,480 Speaker 2: getting away with you. 961 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: Know, that's right, and that's you know, that's the crazy 962 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,799 Speaker 1: thing about all of this. And when I went to 963 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: mass People Park the several times have been there, and 964 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,520 Speaker 1: I live on Long Island. You know, there's so many 965 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 1: homes that are so nice, and then you've seen the 966 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 1: pictures that the home is you know, doesn't look like 967 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: the rest, and it's just people are traumatized and it's 968 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 1: not you know what else I think about. I wanted 969 00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: to bring up with you not only the family members, 970 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: the neighbors, but you know what I think about I 971 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,359 Speaker 1: think about the people that find the victims and what 972 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: that does to their lives. I think about the people 973 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: that went for a walk on a trail and found 974 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,880 Speaker 1: Jessica Taylor and Sandra Castile. We know how the Gilgo 975 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: victims were found from a search, but what about the 976 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,840 Speaker 1: person who went to go walk their dog in the 977 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,960 Speaker 1: Bay area and found the remains of Lacy Peterson. And 978 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 1: what about the other dog walker that went on a 979 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,399 Speaker 1: walk on the rocky shoreline of the beautiful day it's 980 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,799 Speaker 1: beautiful in San Francisco as we know, and found the 981 00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:32,120 Speaker 1: remains of Connor Peterson, an unborn baby that was found 982 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 1: the way he was. I mean, those stories, those lives 983 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,880 Speaker 1: that are forever affected. Talk about not being able to 984 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,439 Speaker 1: turn it off when you're going to bed, and those 985 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: are the images that you see. Those are the images 986 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,319 Speaker 1: that you see that those I mean, I said those 987 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:48,279 Speaker 1: were victims too. 988 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I've said that forever just seeing these 989 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,040 Speaker 2: You know, when you're trained and you see bodies at 990 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 2: the medical examiner, you see dead people. 991 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 3: All the time. 992 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 2: But for regular people that just go to work and 993 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,319 Speaker 2: they're just like working in office job and they've never 994 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 2: seen a dead body, besides maybe like a family member 995 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 2: at a viewing that was covered in makeup and looked 996 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,120 Speaker 2: alive still like they were sleeping. Just for any regular 997 00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:19,840 Speaker 2: person to see something like that and unexpectedly. I can't 998 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 2: imagine the trauma that that causes for life. I don't 999 00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 2: know how you get rid of that. 1000 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: I don't know how either, I really don't. 1001 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,399 Speaker 2: So we met at crime Con and you said, oh, 1002 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 2: I said when are you doing your presentation? And you 1003 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 2: said Sunday. I think it was at like two o'clock. 1004 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,360 Speaker 2: And of course I had to leave because of my kids, 1005 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,799 Speaker 2: right because I left them for three days and I 1006 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 2: felt guilty. So you were doing your lecture and I 1007 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 2: had to miss it. And then I found out that 1008 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 2: you were doing it with Mark Arragos and that Lyle 1009 00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:58,400 Speaker 2: Menendez called during it, and I was like, oh cool, 1010 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 2: Like I was kind of regretting h going home for 1011 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:06,359 Speaker 2: my kids at that, but ah, well, what do you. 1012 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,880 Speaker 3: Think about how did that call go? 1013 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 2: Because it seemed like it got a lot of new 1014 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,239 Speaker 2: news coverage And did you know that he was going 1015 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 2: to be calling or was that kind of some like 1016 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 2: impromptu thing that happened. It was really a great idea 1017 00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,440 Speaker 2: to spread awareness for this case for sure. 1018 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,480 Speaker 1: So we had had the session booked with Mark Garrigos. 1019 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,840 Speaker 1: I originally had pitched at Crime Con to do. I 1020 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,520 Speaker 1: wanted to have the fire investigator who had written the 1021 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,839 Speaker 1: report about the Orange vand and the Scott Peterson case, 1022 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:42,239 Speaker 1: and we were going to have a detective and we 1023 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,839 Speaker 1: had a different setup. Then Mark Garagos became available, and 1024 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,919 Speaker 1: they decided that we should have a conversation with Mark 1025 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: Garrigos because he could talk about Scott Peterson and he 1026 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,200 Speaker 1: could also talk about Lyle and Eric Menendez, which of 1027 00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,560 Speaker 1: course there's traction now in that case, that long running 1028 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,440 Speaker 1: case with two new pieces of evidence that is being 1029 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: whooped into to possibly have the brothers resentenced and possibly released, 1030 00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: which is a huge deal. And as we were getting 1031 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,520 Speaker 1: closer to Crime Con in Nashville, you know, Mark Garrabis 1032 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,000 Speaker 1: is of course a huge name and long running criminal 1033 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: defense attorney with many clients. And I had posted on 1034 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,239 Speaker 1: x that, Hey, looking forward to seeing you guys at 1035 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 1: Crime Con. We're gonna have Mark Ergos see you there 1036 00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: on Sunday, and then he reposted that and said, and 1037 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: we may have a special guest along with the special 1038 00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: Laura ingle, and I thought, okay, do we need to 1039 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 1: order another chair to be on the stage. What are 1040 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,200 Speaker 1: we talking about? Mark? And he and then there was 1041 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 1: rumors that, you know, somebody was maybe going to it 1042 00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,960 Speaker 1: would be a phone call, and at first I thought, well, 1043 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:50,879 Speaker 1: it might be a family member, like I didn't think 1044 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,240 Speaker 1: for a minute it was going to be anybody from prison. 1045 00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:56,560 Speaker 1: And then it became kind of clear that it was 1046 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:58,879 Speaker 1: going to be someone from prison, but Mark wouldn't tell 1047 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,919 Speaker 1: me who it was. And I said to Mark, I said, look, 1048 00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,880 Speaker 1: I've been covering Scott Peterson, as you well know, for 1049 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,320 Speaker 1: me being in the court room when you were in 1050 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,680 Speaker 1: the court room for over twenty years. So if it's 1051 00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,880 Speaker 1: going to be Scott Peterson, I want to know. And 1052 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,200 Speaker 1: he said, I can't tell you until I get it confirmed. 1053 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,960 Speaker 1: So we're at crime Con. I had just met you. 1054 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm backstage and these poor audio guys at the crime 1055 00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 1: Con because we're all backstage, and I started filming and 1056 00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,399 Speaker 1: I'm going to share that video in due time. I'm 1057 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,920 Speaker 1: going to share the video of what happened backstage because 1058 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: it was crazy. He didn't tell me until we were 1059 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:37,280 Speaker 1: walking up the dark steps to the backstage area. Until 1060 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,400 Speaker 1: we were up there and he was on his phone 1061 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: and they were doing a practice call and I could 1062 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,359 Speaker 1: hear somebody talking and I will share this video because 1063 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,279 Speaker 1: it's crazy. And that is when I found out that 1064 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,319 Speaker 1: it was going to be Lyle Menendez. And we were 1065 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: working on how is this going to time out? Because 1066 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,319 Speaker 1: I had this whole presentation ready with a PowerPoint of 1067 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,160 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson and all the pictures about the case. Then 1068 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,520 Speaker 1: I had pictures of Lenandez and Eric Menendez and that, 1069 00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:06,080 Speaker 1: and we had it timed and as you know from 1070 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: these crime concessions, you have to, you know, kind of 1071 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 1: work within a perimeter of time, and you have to 1072 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: allow for questions. And you think that, you know, an 1073 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,400 Speaker 1: hour seems like such a long time. Then all of 1074 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: a sudden they're counting you down. You've got two minutes left. 1075 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,520 Speaker 1: So we're backstage and Mark says, you know, Lyle Menendez, 1076 00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:27,000 Speaker 1: meet Laura Ingle on the speakerphone, HI, while I guess 1077 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:30,239 Speaker 1: we're doing this, And the audio guys were backstage and 1078 00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,879 Speaker 1: they go, I mean, we are five minutes to going 1079 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: out on stage, and the audio techts were going, do 1080 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: we have time to patch this through? How are we 1081 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,759 Speaker 1: going to do this, and the decision was made right 1082 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,000 Speaker 1: then and there. The only thing that was going to 1083 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,120 Speaker 1: happen was that low Menandez was going to call collect 1084 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 1: from prison. Mark was going to put it on speakerphone, 1085 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,120 Speaker 1: and he was going to hold it up to the 1086 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:51,839 Speaker 1: microphone that he was wearing, and that was the only 1087 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,040 Speaker 1: way that was going to happen, and that is exactly 1088 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 1: what happened. 1089 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,680 Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yeah, I was wondering that because I know 1090 00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 2: behind the scenes, there's like they would probably be able 1091 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,640 Speaker 2: to play it over the speaker system if they had 1092 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,440 Speaker 2: adequate notice and everything. 1093 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,040 Speaker 3: So that's cool. 1094 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,120 Speaker 2: But I'm I'm glad that I'm very interested in this 1095 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:13,680 Speaker 2: case because I feel like these guys have already been 1096 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,600 Speaker 2: in jails way too long. It's it's almost like, uh, 1097 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,200 Speaker 2: Maria and I were saying that we think it's kind 1098 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,920 Speaker 2: of like the Gypsy Rose case, like that she finally 1099 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,240 Speaker 2: killed her mom because she was just abusing her so bad, 1100 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,480 Speaker 2: and we see how that worked out that she did 1101 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 2: some crime. She did some time for well she didn't, 1102 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 2: I guess her boyfriend had killed her mom, but she 1103 00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,440 Speaker 2: was involved with it. And but now she's free and 1104 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 2: she should be because of the abuse she suffered throughout 1105 00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,960 Speaker 2: her life. And it's the same thing with the Menendez 1106 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,799 Speaker 2: brothers in my opinion, and I hope to God they 1107 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,720 Speaker 2: get a new trial and get a second chance at life. 1108 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 2: And even if, like they're older now, right, their whole 1109 00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,400 Speaker 2: entire most of their adult life has been in jail, 1110 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,400 Speaker 2: but at least maybe they can really change things for 1111 00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,160 Speaker 2: people moving forward. 1112 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,040 Speaker 1: Oh that's what Lyle talked about. And when the call came, 1113 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: I just want to tell your viewers that it was. 1114 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a gasp in the crowd. It 1115 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: was I could hear it from the stage and my 1116 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,880 Speaker 1: friends that were out in the audience. You know, you 1117 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 1: could hear when you say, you know, Mark Garabo said, 1118 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:24,720 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, this is Lyle Mean Nandez on the phone. 1119 00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,520 Speaker 1: And everybody was shocked, myself included. I mean, I knew 1120 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,240 Speaker 1: it was going to happen moments before, but still, I 1121 00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: just I was like, I can't believe this is happening. 1122 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,000 Speaker 1: And what he talked about was and I in the moment, 1123 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 1: and I had no time to prepare because and then 1124 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,720 Speaker 1: I later thought, should I talk to him about what 1125 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,439 Speaker 1: happened that night? And pulling the trigger and was thinking 1126 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,520 Speaker 1: about all the things, But what I ended up asking 1127 00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: him was what do you plan to do? He talked 1128 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 1: about the work that he's been doing being productive in prison, 1129 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,680 Speaker 1: that he's been helping other inmates, that he has been 1130 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,000 Speaker 1: working on. He's been talking to Rosie O'Donnell of all people, 1131 00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,880 Speaker 1: about establishing a foundation to help childhood sexual abuse survivors. 1132 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,960 Speaker 1: And then June twentieth, he is planning on graduating with 1133 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in sociology along with twenty three other inmates. 1134 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: So he was talking about the work he's been doing, 1135 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 1: the work he you know, the education that he's been 1136 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,800 Speaker 1: able to get while in prison, and then what he 1137 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,200 Speaker 1: wants to do and become a productive member of society, 1138 00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:23,080 Speaker 1: and he thanked people for the support those that have 1139 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 1: supporting him. And remember there's a lot of people out 1140 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,680 Speaker 1: there who think that, you know, life in prison without 1141 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,040 Speaker 1: parole means life in prison without parole. Period. End of discussion. 1142 00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,520 Speaker 1: So we'll see what happens next. But it's a really 1143 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,400 Speaker 1: fascinating turn in this case because there's two new things 1144 00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: that have happened with a member of that boy band Menudo, 1145 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,200 Speaker 1: that had come forward to talk about the abuse he 1146 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,760 Speaker 1: says he suffered at the hands of Jose Menendez years 1147 00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,120 Speaker 1: ago when he was fourteen. And then this letter that 1148 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,720 Speaker 1: was discovered that was written to a cousin. La Melenandez 1149 00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,080 Speaker 1: had written to a cousin talking about the abuse he 1150 00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,800 Speaker 1: suffered from his father. The cousin recently died and when 1151 00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,640 Speaker 1: they went through his things, they found this letter. So 1152 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens with the judge. It's going to 1153 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:08,560 Speaker 1: it's now in a judge's hands to decide what's going 1154 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: to happen next. But it's definitely you know, this is 1155 00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,920 Speaker 1: one of the first, if you want to call it, 1156 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:17,200 Speaker 1: true crime cases that people had really started following with 1157 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:21,200 Speaker 1: the trials of these two brothers. So a lot of 1158 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,880 Speaker 1: people have an investment in following the story. And we'll 1159 00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,160 Speaker 1: see what happens next, but there's there could be a 1160 00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:29,080 Speaker 1: big turn coming with this. 1161 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the whole thing is just it's really sick. 1162 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 3: And I really did. 1163 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,480 Speaker 2: I wrote a high profile death to section, actually did 1164 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,720 Speaker 2: two parts on it, so it really did a deep 1165 00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:44,520 Speaker 2: dive into it, and I felt really terrible that it 1166 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,120 Speaker 2: just was like, oh, well, there's no proof that the 1167 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,080 Speaker 2: dad did this, and it's like, well, of course, like 1168 00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:53,360 Speaker 2: that's that's what these people do. Pedophiles don't usually keep 1169 00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,720 Speaker 2: proof of it unless they have videos or something in 1170 00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,040 Speaker 2: their house nowadays. But back in I mean, this crime 1171 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,480 Speaker 2: happened in the nine and they were children in the 1172 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:06,280 Speaker 2: eighties so or even late seventies or eighties, right, So 1173 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,440 Speaker 2: it's like, of course, there's no proof that he molested 1174 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,440 Speaker 2: the children. And it's sad that they even have to 1175 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:17,440 Speaker 2: get additional information from these these boy band members and 1176 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 2: not believe these kids. And also in the first trial, 1177 01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 2: I remember that the prosecutor said something like, oh, they 1178 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,440 Speaker 2: couldn't have been raped because they lacked the adequate parts 1179 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:28,320 Speaker 2: to be raped. 1180 01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:28,960 Speaker 3: Or something like that. 1181 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,280 Speaker 2: And just I mean, it's it's awesome that they'll at 1182 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:37,760 Speaker 2: least be able to be these pivotal people of these 1183 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,600 Speaker 2: types of cases hopefully when they get out. And I 1184 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,280 Speaker 2: mean the years of suffering of being in prison on 1185 01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,080 Speaker 2: top of all the suffering that they did, it's. 1186 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,600 Speaker 3: Just like it pisses me off. It makes me upset, like. 1187 01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:52,480 Speaker 2: As a mom, you know what I mean, and like 1188 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:54,280 Speaker 2: a person that loves children, you know. 1189 01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: In the interviews, just people that have said, you know, 1190 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,960 Speaker 1: well they were adults, they could have left. And that 1191 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,120 Speaker 1: really upsets me too to hear that because we don't 1192 01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 1: know what was going on. There was a lot of 1193 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, manipulation going on emotionally psychologically. But just for 1194 01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: those people, I wish that they would take a step 1195 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,480 Speaker 1: back and look at, you know, maybe the larger picture 1196 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:14,680 Speaker 1: of that. 1197 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. So over the past hour 1198 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,080 Speaker 2: or so, we've been talking about really horrible stuff. I 1199 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:23,600 Speaker 2: love that you do make light of some of this, 1200 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,840 Speaker 2: because these subjects are very heavy, like your baseball car story, 1201 01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,320 Speaker 2: and because when you hear about all this horrible stuff 1202 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 2: all the time, you have to you have to make 1203 01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,080 Speaker 2: jokes from time to time. But are there any news 1204 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,320 Speaker 2: stories that you report on that have been happy that 1205 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,520 Speaker 2: make people feel good? 1206 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:49,360 Speaker 1: Well, yes, yes, yes there has. I've done a lot 1207 01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:54,919 Speaker 1: of entertainment reporting. I've done some lighter side stuff. I mean, 1208 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,120 Speaker 1: back to my radio days. I've done a lot of 1209 01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,440 Speaker 1: great things that you know, race car drive and county 1210 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,040 Speaker 1: fairs and that sort of thing. I'd say probably my 1211 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: my number one story. People have asked me like, what's 1212 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,400 Speaker 1: your favorite story? And that's hard. You can't say that 1213 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,960 Speaker 1: a murder trial is your favorite. Story because those stories 1214 01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,480 Speaker 1: are awful, but the one story that still stays with 1215 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,160 Speaker 1: me today because I'm in touch with them. I did 1216 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:24,520 Speaker 1: a story about and went on tour with Iron Maiden. 1217 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,360 Speaker 1: I mentioned that I'm a former rock daja. I did 1218 01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:33,080 Speaker 1: a story about them and how the lead singer, Bruce Dickinson, 1219 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,160 Speaker 1: is not only a trained opera singer, but he's also 1220 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,520 Speaker 1: this showman that everybody knows about running around on stage. 1221 01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,280 Speaker 1: But they also he's also a pilot, licensed commercial pilot. 1222 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:46,160 Speaker 1: And so they found a way to tour around the 1223 01:02:46,200 --> 01:02:49,760 Speaker 1: world in a custom jet that they had made, the 1224 01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,240 Speaker 1: seven thirty seven, and they had painted the outside and 1225 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: they had cleared out the back of the plane to 1226 01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:01,360 Speaker 1: put their huge stage show. Put the band in business class, 1227 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,200 Speaker 1: the crew and coach, and then Bruce Dickinson, the pilot, 1228 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,400 Speaker 1: flew the plane and I went on the plane with 1229 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,000 Speaker 1: them to Samuel Puerto Rico, and we did a couple 1230 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,600 Speaker 1: stops and I got to tell that story, and that 1231 01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:16,080 Speaker 1: was as a long standing Iron Maiden fan from my childhood, 1232 01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:17,400 Speaker 1: that was pretty fun. 1233 01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,440 Speaker 3: That's so cool, like what a cool experience. 1234 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was that. That was a that was 1235 01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:25,720 Speaker 1: a top pilot for sure. 1236 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:28,080 Speaker 3: I love that. 1237 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:32,640 Speaker 2: Well, just wrapping up, Blake, we're trying to talk to 1238 01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,440 Speaker 2: these about these different careers with women and stuff. 1239 01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,160 Speaker 3: And for sure, your job sounds so. 1240 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:42,560 Speaker 2: Cool and appealing to many people, I'm sure, but being 1241 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,400 Speaker 2: a woman like I am too, it's like you're a 1242 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,600 Speaker 2: wife and your mom, you got to cook dinner, all 1243 01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,000 Speaker 2: this stuff. So you said you had an eleven year 1244 01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 2: old son. What what kind of struggles did you have 1245 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:57,080 Speaker 2: in this job just because you kind of always have 1246 01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:59,160 Speaker 2: to be on call in a way in case there's 1247 01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 2: any breaking news and you have to travel. Is that 1248 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,360 Speaker 2: something like how do you balance your life with your 1249 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:06,520 Speaker 2: family and your career. 1250 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 1: Well, it's challenging. It's not easy and everything. You know, 1251 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 1: when I think people see what we do on television, 1252 01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:20,200 Speaker 1: it looks like it might be easy doing here and makeup, researching, 1253 01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:24,360 Speaker 1: writing a script, getting information and all of that takes time. 1254 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,800 Speaker 1: It takes time away from your family. There's commuting, there's 1255 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,200 Speaker 1: as you mentioned, traveling to different jurisdictions for the story 1256 01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:34,880 Speaker 1: and of course for me, trying to shield him as 1257 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,280 Speaker 1: much as I can from the content. And that is 1258 01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,480 Speaker 1: unavoidable sometimes because like when I went to Wyoming, I 1259 01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,480 Speaker 1: was with Gabby Patito's family when she was found. I mean, 1260 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,880 Speaker 1: I wasn't at the physical place, but we were right 1261 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:52,080 Speaker 1: down the road when Jim Schmidt, her stepfather, who was 1262 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,920 Speaker 1: there searching for her, got the phone call from the FBI. 1263 01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:58,880 Speaker 1: And so the Gabby Patito conversation is one that my 1264 01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,080 Speaker 1: son has overheard in my house. He you know, he's 1265 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,440 Speaker 1: who's Gabby Batito. Well, you know, you have to explain 1266 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:10,920 Speaker 1: that in a way that is sensitive, and he understands 1267 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,920 Speaker 1: that that mommy works with. You know, he talks to 1268 01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:17,320 Speaker 1: the FBI and talks to the police, and I did 1269 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,400 Speaker 1: a story with the US Marshals. I went out on 1270 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:23,200 Speaker 1: a violent Fugitive task Force ride along, and he heard 1271 01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,360 Speaker 1: about that in the background. So it's very you know, 1272 01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,000 Speaker 1: you've got to be careful about it. But he also 1273 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:30,880 Speaker 1: needs to understand that I have an important job. But 1274 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,600 Speaker 1: I always tell them that I'm out with the good 1275 01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:37,440 Speaker 1: guys trying to get the bad guys. So it's it 1276 01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,240 Speaker 1: is definitely a balance, and it's really hard a lot 1277 01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,040 Speaker 1: of the times to pull myself back, especially when news 1278 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: is breaking after hours and I'm home and I want 1279 01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,360 Speaker 1: to be on social and I want to be talking 1280 01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,080 Speaker 1: about you know, figuring out how we're going to do 1281 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,800 Speaker 1: this the next day. But I also want to be 1282 01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 1: a mom, and I just have to check myself and 1283 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,000 Speaker 1: really try and pull myself back when or where I 1284 01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:01,000 Speaker 1: can send a quick text or know when and where 1285 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,720 Speaker 1: I can and be as present because I know I'm 1286 01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,680 Speaker 1: going to blink and he's going to be a teenager 1287 01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:07,520 Speaker 1: any second, I know. 1288 01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:11,160 Speaker 2: I think that it's good though, that you talk about that, 1289 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,960 Speaker 2: because I think I think it's like something a lot 1290 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,160 Speaker 2: of women struggle with, especially like my husband also kind 1291 01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:20,160 Speaker 2: of wants to do a lot of stuff with his life. 1292 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,880 Speaker 2: He doesn't really want to be like a mom dad, 1293 01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,479 Speaker 2: which is what I say, is like, okay, the guy 1294 01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:28,720 Speaker 2: that'll be there to like cover for you if you're 1295 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:33,040 Speaker 2: doing something. You know, so it is it's something that 1296 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:37,160 Speaker 2: you have to go into knowing that you're trying to 1297 01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,520 Speaker 2: do all these things, but you still want to be 1298 01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:41,600 Speaker 2: like the best mom to your kid as well. 1299 01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:44,280 Speaker 1: You know, it's the number one job and being a 1300 01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:47,120 Speaker 1: wife too. You know, my husband who is just amazing 1301 01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:49,000 Speaker 1: and I don't know if you, I don't think he 1302 01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,760 Speaker 1: was with me when I met you, but he was 1303 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,920 Speaker 1: with me crime con and he is just a fantastic partner. 1304 01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,439 Speaker 1: And we actually met on the job. We met working 1305 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,520 Speaker 1: on the The rivera show years and years ago. That's 1306 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,200 Speaker 1: how we met. And he's a professional drummer. 1307 01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:04,720 Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. 1308 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,840 Speaker 1: So we've we've got music and news in the blood 1309 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:12,080 Speaker 1: for both of us. And and he has been very 1310 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,480 Speaker 1: active in helping me with my career as well. And 1311 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,840 Speaker 1: he does a lot of behind the scenes production stuff 1312 01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:19,600 Speaker 1: and he'll be helping with the podcast that will be 1313 01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:23,280 Speaker 1: coming out, and you know, it's it's a balance though, 1314 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, I don't remember, And we just talked about 1315 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,240 Speaker 1: this the other night, like when was the last time 1316 01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:29,640 Speaker 1: we went on a date. We need to make sure 1317 01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:32,960 Speaker 1: to make time for that, because it's just like, let 1318 01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,880 Speaker 1: me just get past crime con Let me just get 1319 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,920 Speaker 1: past oh Rex Yuerman's back in court, let me just 1320 01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,280 Speaker 1: get past this isis thing that's happening today which I 1321 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,000 Speaker 1: have to go and report on right now as a 1322 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,040 Speaker 1: matter of fact. So I mean it's just, you know, 1323 01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,560 Speaker 1: you just have to carve out time. I need to 1324 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,480 Speaker 1: be better about that. It's something that I'm working on 1325 01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:51,120 Speaker 1: just as a human, as a wife and as a mom. 1326 01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do, we do stupid stuff like when we 1327 01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:57,000 Speaker 2: have to go pick up the kids from school, like 1328 01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:00,360 Speaker 2: we'll go together just because it's a fifteen minute ride 1329 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,760 Speaker 2: in the car alone. So it's just like and that's 1330 01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,280 Speaker 2: multiple times a week. So it's just kind of like, 1331 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:07,959 Speaker 2: even if we don't have time to go on dates, 1332 01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,240 Speaker 2: it's just like catch up time to talk. You know. 1333 01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:14,320 Speaker 3: It's kind of pathetic, not. 1334 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,439 Speaker 1: No, but it's not. But that's that's the way of 1335 01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,400 Speaker 1: the world these days. And that's how when we're all 1336 01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: working as hard as we are right now. I think 1337 01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,120 Speaker 1: that that's great. I think that you know, it may 1338 01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:25,519 Speaker 1: sound like fifteen minutes doesn't sound like a long time, 1339 01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:27,000 Speaker 1: but it can be. You can get a lot covered 1340 01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,679 Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes and a lot of you know, it's 1341 01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:32,880 Speaker 1: a it's a thing that we all talk about in 1342 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:35,479 Speaker 1: the news industry of just you know, how how to 1343 01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,519 Speaker 1: make that time because there is I don't know what 1344 01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,559 Speaker 1: it is, man, it's just there is so much news. 1345 01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,200 Speaker 1: It's like a fire hose every single day. It doesn't stop. 1346 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,880 Speaker 1: And I said something out loud the other day to somebody. 1347 01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,400 Speaker 1: I said, I want to get to a point soon 1348 01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:56,080 Speaker 1: where I can hear myself stop saying this phrase. Let 1349 01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,519 Speaker 1: me just get past dot dot dot. Let me just 1350 01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,000 Speaker 1: get past this whatever it is, and then and then 1351 01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,800 Speaker 1: I can go on that vacation. Then I can go, 1352 01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, sit at the beach for a second and 1353 01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,679 Speaker 1: not be working. Let me just get past pick the story, 1354 01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:15,680 Speaker 1: and I just I want to find a place for 1355 01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,759 Speaker 1: that someday soon, maybe tomorrow, we'll see. 1356 01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,960 Speaker 2: No, I totally get it because I was the same 1357 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,280 Speaker 2: way like, and it sucks too because it's not only 1358 01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,320 Speaker 2: my family, but it's like my friends too. I'll just 1359 01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:30,080 Speaker 2: be like, listen, I have to do crime kind so 1360 01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:32,760 Speaker 2: the whole world has to be stuffed for while I 1361 01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:35,720 Speaker 2: write my lecture and mentally prepare for this, and I'll 1362 01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:37,040 Speaker 2: be available. 1363 01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:37,080 Speaker 3: After, you know. 1364 01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's important. We all have to we 1365 01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,840 Speaker 1: all have to make the time, and it's just we've 1366 01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:45,240 Speaker 1: got to prioritize it. That's all. 1367 01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:47,719 Speaker 3: I'm gonna let you go right now. 1368 01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:49,679 Speaker 2: Just let us know if you're working on any other 1369 01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,000 Speaker 2: projects you want anybody to know about. 1370 01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:56,080 Speaker 1: I will, I will. I've been trying to post more 1371 01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:00,000 Speaker 1: behind the scenes stuff on x and on my Instagram, 1372 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,200 Speaker 1: which I had to completely redo and restart because I 1373 01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,920 Speaker 1: was confused for another Laura in the business, and so 1374 01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,360 Speaker 1: I had to take down my original I moved my 1375 01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,559 Speaker 1: stuff private and start all over again. So I encourage 1376 01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,920 Speaker 1: people to follow me on Instagram at Laura Ingle TV 1377 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,960 Speaker 1: and on x at Laura Ingle and that's Ingle with 1378 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:21,760 Speaker 1: an Eye. So I'd appreciate that, just because I do 1379 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,200 Speaker 1: try and post as much behind the scenes, and I 1380 01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:25,840 Speaker 1: know that that's what people really want to see because 1381 01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,360 Speaker 1: that's what I want to see. I want to see 1382 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,280 Speaker 1: what happens behind the camera, what happens in the courtroom hallways, 1383 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,200 Speaker 1: what happens on the investigations that we go on. So 1384 01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:35,920 Speaker 1: I try to post a lot of that stuff on social. 1385 01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,080 Speaker 2: All right, well, thank you so much for being here. 1386 01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:39,439 Speaker 2: It was really awesome. 1387 01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Oh my gosh, thank you so much for 1388 01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:43,920 Speaker 1: having me. I look forward to our next chat. 1389 01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,720 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, 1390 01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:55,720 Speaker 2: my training is as a pathologist assistant. I have a 1391 01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,960 Speaker 2: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology educating. 1392 01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,400 Speaker 2: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed 1393 01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,120 Speaker 2: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of 1394 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:12,360 Speaker 2: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website and social 1395 01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:15,920 Speaker 2: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based 1396 01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,880 Speaker 2: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make 1397 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:24,759 Speaker 2: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember 1398 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:27,879 Speaker 2: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed 1399 01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,559 Speaker 2: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those 1400 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:34,360 Speaker 2: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having 1401 01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:38,400 Speaker 2: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a 1402 01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:42,800 Speaker 2: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent 1403 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:44,959 Speaker 2: care center, emergency room. 1404 01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:45,720 Speaker 3: Or hospital. 1405 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:51,880 Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, 1406 01:11:52,080 --> 01:12:02,320 Speaker 2: or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks Nay