1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're on vacation, but that doesn't mean 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: we don't have a great show for you today. The 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: Center for Working Class Politics Shared Abbott stops by to 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: talk to us about the democratic penalty and how Democrats 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: can win with. 8 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: A populist message. 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: But first we'll talk to legendary democratic poster the Ragin 10 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Cajun James Carvill. 11 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: James Carvell, welcome back. 12 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I love I love being on our 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 3: favorite podcast to come on. 14 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 4: Thank you very. 15 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: Much, thank you. 16 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: I've read this piece you wrote in the New York Times. 17 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: I agree one hundred percent. 18 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: I want you to tell me first, why do you 19 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: think economic populism is the only way to go? 20 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: Well, I think it for a couple of reasons, and 21 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about it, had been building up for 22 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 3: a time. The Scott Galloway lecture on Generational the Really 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: it's got me to thinking a lot deeper about it. 24 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 3: And I'll be honest with you, Molly. I started hearing 25 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 3: from the biggionair class saying we got to do something. 26 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 3: This is just not this is not work. I mean, 27 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 3: Peter Platt, just for a fact, for Saint James, you 28 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 3: need to say something because the amount of wealth that 29 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 3: is going to older people and savers and people that 30 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 3: already have wealth is just overwhelming. 31 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 4: And what have we done this year. 32 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: We've straddled the young people with another three and a 33 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: half tree dollars in debt, and we straddled with a 34 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 3: tax code is even more unfair to them. And I 35 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 3: was on a squawk box this morning Andrew Ross Hawking, 36 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 3: and somebody needs to do an intervention on capitalism because 37 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 3: if it goes the way it's gone, it's going up 38 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: in flames because it's just not producing. 39 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 4: Results for a whole lot of people. 40 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 3: And the only way you can do that is you 41 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: got to intervings that way a minute, tails us try 42 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: to make this a little bit more equitable, if you will. 43 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: I'm sure they love that. On squawk Box. 44 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: Well, he said something like, well some people will leave. 45 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 3: I said, well, you know what, if you're a billionaire, 46 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 3: you can't pay forty percent, get your ass. 47 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 4: Out of the country. We don't need you if you 48 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 4: go into the country. 49 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 3: And if people went up Sugar Oak Hill and charged 50 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 3: the stone Wall and Bredickson did all the stuff they did, 51 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: and you can you know we paid thirty nine and 52 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 3: a half percent of the night. It is proffers a 53 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: decade we've had sheet since since the law, at least 54 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: maybe even longer than that. And I'm sorry if it 55 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: hurts you feelings, you know, think, oh you've gotten from 56 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 3: this country and how every carrot interest is just in 57 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 3: all it's like a I'm a cradle, kathlic it's it's 58 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: a sewing maral, it's a cent. And we got we 59 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: got an adjustice. 60 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: The taxation on carried interest, which is much lower than 61 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: income taxes. 62 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: It's not worth explaining, but to billing asked to do 63 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 3: hedge funds, if they lose their money, you know, if 64 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: they make money, they only pay a lower rate. 65 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 5: Than you do. 66 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: You're hearing from billionaire is that they're saying it's not fair. 67 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 5: Yes. 68 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: And the first people that called me, and you should 69 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 3: look them up, patriotic millionaires. 70 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: Oh I know those guys. 71 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, And they called and I have a main names 72 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: when I was in New York, two big and ass 73 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: and both of them you would probably know. 74 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 4: But I'm not going to mention your names because they didn't. 75 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 3: I didn't ask them who will both being as and 76 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 3: said this is this is not going to work much long. 77 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: And I hear that constantly. Is the inequality and the 78 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 3: amount of money that is going to say to net 79 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: sabers at the costs of that Brawers is ridiculous that 80 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: people can't young people can't buy a house. They don't 81 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 3: think you can afford an education. And all of this 82 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: is happening in four percent unemployment. Do you want me 83 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 3: to tell you what this is going to look like 84 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 3: in seven percent unemployment? 85 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 5: No? 86 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 3: Okay, this country, since two thousand and nine, we've had 87 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: asset appreciation the likes of which you could not imagine. 88 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 3: Do you take S and P growth and then take 89 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: hourly wage growth from two thousand from ten to now 90 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 3: and see what that line looks like. And somebody has 91 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: to do an intervention. It just can't continue like this. 92 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: The Democratic brand is also bad, not as bad as 93 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: the Trump brand, but bad. 94 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: Do you think that's part of this look? 95 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: I don't care about the parted brand elections like we 96 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 3: were like we just wanted earlier this month. The brand 97 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 3: can be in the sewer, okay, right. The problem is 98 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: I think the brand, the fact that we want and 99 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: I like these images of Santa Kelly and Slotkin and 100 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: Gego and them, you know, this whole thing showing that, hey, 101 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: you know, we can be macho, we can stand up 102 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 3: to think. That's going to help. And I'm just so 103 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: excited about this presidential contest coming up in twenty twenty eight. 104 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: When people see the talent we have, it's going to 105 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: be fine. Now, I'd tell you right now, I would 106 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 3: much rather be a Democrat than a Republican, much much rather. 107 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: But that is, there still really are internal fractions, and 108 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: I'd love you to talk about because I think your 109 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: idea of economic populism is really important and it's the 110 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: only way I think for Democrats to really move forward. 111 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: It's both a moral precedent and it's also politically smart. 112 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's not a wing of the Democratic Party, and 113 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 3: as I pointed out, for whatever reason, I view myself 114 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 3: as that. But people think I'm a center is it 115 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: always Holly, I'm no such thing. I'm a liberal, Okay. 116 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: I believe in a progressive tax code, I believe in 117 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 3: inclusion and opportunity and whatever. 118 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 4: But that's going to be determined by the primaries. 119 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 3: So whatever the wings are hearing it, you know, shure, 120 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: somebody from the more progressive wing is going to run. 121 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 3: Is going to be some one of them. You can 122 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: do pragmatic governors. There's going to be some. It's going 123 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: to be a lot of different people. And the decision 124 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: is going to be made by Democratic primary voters that 125 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: vote in presidential primaries. And I'm going to say this 126 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 3: without fear of hesitation, equivocation around servation. Southern blacks picked 127 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: the Democratic nominee. Okay, is not picked in Queens, is 128 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: not picked in bel Air, it's not picked in Marin County. 129 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 3: It's picked by Southern Blacks. 130 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 4: And that is the way it should be. 131 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: Because time and time again, we didn't win New Hampshire 132 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: in ninety two, Obama loss, Biden loss. What happened as 133 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 3: soon as it came south, the hammer dropped. And I 134 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: think that's going to be the case this time. And 135 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 3: I got news. The Democratic Party in its modern history 136 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 3: has never nominated the most quote liberal whatever that means, 137 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 3: un quote candidate. 138 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 1: South Carolina is actually the fourth, the third or the 139 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: fourth the third. 140 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 3: It don't matter, right, That's the one that people look at. 141 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 3: That's where they go campaign again, Yes you got, we 142 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: got New Hampshire. I don't know what our does now. 143 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 3: Nevada has something. 144 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 4: Who remembers who won the Nevada Caucasus right now? 145 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: Okay, everybody, Now, look, I don't think it's going to 146 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 3: change because and I think that Southern Black should deservedly 147 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: deserve this exalted position because they've shown that they pretty 148 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: judicious in the candidate they select, and they're a big 149 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: part of the base of the Democratic Party, and there 150 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 3: should be a card into respect. 151 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: But a lot of Southern Black voters are really disenfranchised. 152 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: So South Carolina, no, they're more franchised. But say Mississippi, Louisiana, 153 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: I mean, are there do you see any efforts to 154 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: get those voters to be able to be engaged in 155 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: voting products. 156 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: Well, I think we're going to American prediction, all right, 157 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: or bursted down. I'm not at all impaired. I think 158 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: Missippi is going to have a Democratic center by the 159 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 3: time the primary is a twenty twenty eight roll around 160 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: name it's Scott Column. I think there is a chance 161 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 3: if you can go on Predicted one of these betting sites, 162 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: you can get good art. I would take Scott Column 163 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: to defeat Cindy high Smith. 164 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 4: Uh. 165 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 3: And now that Tupperville is leaving the Senate, you know 166 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 3: Cindy Hyde Range is well, he's learning for governess. I 167 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: guess he was staying in the city. He might Doug 168 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: Jones might beat You don't do kid yourself? 169 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: Really? 170 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, tell me why. Well, Doug was a senator from 171 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 3: from Alabama. He was prosecuted, prosecuted. The people in Birmingham 172 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: were those children. Uh, he's very Alabama. He's very personal 173 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: and tumboviille. How do I say this delicately? He's goofy. 174 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: All right, he's goofy. He can't debate Doug Jones and 175 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 3: you know, and that kind of coature you got to 176 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: you gotta stand up for yourself. He doesn't have the 177 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 3: IQ to remotely get on the same stage with Doug Jones, 178 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 3: and he knows it, and I think dogs makes a 179 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 3: pay out of it. 180 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: He's also kind of dumb. 181 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 4: Yes, it's goof he's done. Yeah, he's goofy. 182 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: The thing about him is the most amusing human being 183 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 3: on earth is a person who is really stupid and 184 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 3: thinks they're smart. 185 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 4: That's what he is. 186 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: That's first of why he has ending entertainment. He doesn't 187 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 3: know how stupid he is. 188 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: There are opportunities right now because Democrats have these even 189 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: though the whatever, the brand, has some kind of problem 190 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: in the elections, they are just way overperforming. We have 191 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: a special election in like ten days in Nashville for 192 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: a jerrymander. That's a R plus twenty one. So it's unlikely. 193 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: But what are you seeing other opportunities in the South. 194 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 3: Well, you've got to see how some of this redistricting 195 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: stuff turns up. But I think Virginia will pick up 196 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: to house stats of North Carolina is a most certain 197 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: of flip to Democrat in the Senate if jerrymandered these things, 198 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: so you kind of limited this to the number of 199 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: seats you can get. But right now Democrats are running fifth, 200 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: I don't know, fifteen points ahead of the expected foremast 201 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 3: ten fifty, maybe ten to fifteen, I think. But it's 202 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: been pretty consistent. And if you look at the elections 203 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: earlier this month, the two things that really impress you 204 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 3: is the magnitude and but equal in partner is the breath. 205 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 3: It didn't matter where you were, even California, You're in Mississippi, Pennsylvania, 206 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 3: wherever he was just in Virginia and New There. It 207 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: was just it was all. It was breathtaking amounts. And 208 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: you know this as well as I do, because we 209 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: talked to a lot of saint people. Everybody was panicked 210 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 3: about Mikey schell, Oh my gosh, not that good at canidate. 211 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: Oh my god, a TV is not that guy shit around? 212 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Murphy's unpopu. Oh my god, it's really 213 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: going to be called Oh my god. I can see 214 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: Spanberg of winning about ten, but I think Eryl could 215 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 3: lose by a point or two. What happened vacialism is 216 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 3: still being blown sky high. And it was all about Trump. 217 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, as someone who and there to 218 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: cover Mikey and who wrote about it for the New 219 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: York Times too, it was all about Trump, but it 220 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: was also all about I think people were worried that 221 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: the electorate was a lot more sexist than we thought 222 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: it was going to be, because remember, we have run 223 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: two Democratic women and they've both just gotten creamed by Trump. 224 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I mean not Hillary, but. 225 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 4: Shitty had creamed right. 226 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: Look, and everybody assumed that the shifts away from the 227 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: demo frass about Hispanics and younger voters was permanent. 228 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 4: It was no such thing. 229 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 3: If you look at the results in the Passaic County, 230 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: I guess it is, or any other place. 231 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 4: You can see it right there right back. 232 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 3: I think there's a Maya's race in Miami coming up 233 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: too sometimes, and it hadn't been a democratic may have 234 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 3: Miami in a long time, and I think we're going 235 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 3: to help word. 236 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: This time Miami. 237 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's so Florida's sort of feels like 238 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: it's wait and see, tipped into the ocean of republicanism. 239 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: I do think it is worth talking about the rage 240 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: component of economic populism for just a minute. Okay, So 241 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: what you write about is that the electorate is just 242 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: super angry on the left and the right. 243 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 2: I think it's really true. 244 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: Is economic populism the only way to catch that electorate? 245 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 2: Or are there other well? 246 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: I think whatever we call it economic populism, Okay. First 247 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 3: of all, it has to be done. It's the moral 248 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: thing to do, all right, And if we don't do it, 249 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: then we keep sliding towards greater inequality, very very bad 250 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: things can happen to the country. 251 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 4: The second thing is all popular. 252 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 3: There's nothing more popular than tact and rich people and 253 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: use it the money to give young people opportunity. It's 254 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 3: a seventy five percent issue. I'm sorry, it just is. 255 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 3: It's not only the moral thing to do, it's not 256 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 3: only the right thing to do, it's the popular thing 257 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: to do. Is the politically smart thing to do. Everything 258 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: that you want in a policy tells you that you'd 259 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 3: have to have an aggressive economic program to give opportunity 260 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: to people who are trying to make it. And if 261 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: that cost come from people that already have it made, 262 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 3: then so be it. Somebody helped them before they made it. 263 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 3: I mean I went to when I was educated on 264 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 3: the GI bill, all right, I had guaranteed low interest 265 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 3: rates and we got to, you know, somebody, I had 266 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 3: almost free college because you're not to pay any money 267 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 3: to go to the state university back then. We've got 268 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 3: to create opportunity for hungry young people. Right now, they 269 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 3: just see themselves being able to afford anything. 270 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 2: So you think it's partially tax incentives, partially free college 271 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 2: partially really do forgive it as yeah? 272 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. 273 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 3: Long forgiveness is a a little more of a sticky issue. 274 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: But obviously, the more you can expand college. The more 275 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: you can bring the cost out to help people who 276 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 3: are better off, that's going to be And yes, the text, 277 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: yes you can remember we got thirty eight thirty nine 278 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: trillion dollars in debt. The tax code is a statement 279 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 3: of the nation's priorities, and right now the nation's priorities 280 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: all we hope people already haven't made and we kicked 281 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: a crap out of people who are trying to make it. 282 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 4: And I think that's a long priority. 283 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: How do you think like what we saw with Trump 284 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: was these Democrats did a video about the military. Veteran 285 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: Democrats did this video, don't disobey the law. That was 286 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: the video, right, don't disobey the law. It made Donald 287 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: Trump completely crazy and started calling for them to be hanged. 288 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: Is this smart politics? It seems like it's elevated Mark 289 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: Kelly and so many other people in the video. 290 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 3: I think my budg say our friend Ruben after they 291 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 3: was not happy. It is not a happy camp. But look, 292 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: I think that there are people. It is not an 293 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 3: academic discussion that what And I think they were probably 294 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 3: talking to senior officers. They weren't talking to the last corporal. 295 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: All right, very likely that this guy, is he gets desperate, 296 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 3: is going to give illegal arts. It is and that 297 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 3: is not a that's just not a theoretical thing I'm 298 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: going to have at a seminar at the Naval Academy 299 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 3: or at West Point. 300 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 4: That's a real possibility. 301 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 3: That is something that people You notice that people discuss 302 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 3: what do you do if this crazy over this shows 303 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 3: you to go, you know, look look at what they're doing. 304 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 3: So I think there was a real purpose behind what 305 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 3: they said, and they wanted to be very clear if 306 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 3: you're thinking about doing something crazy, you know, watch out, 307 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: because people don't have to follow your art. And I 308 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 3: think it's clear. And I think what they said, which 309 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 3: is in the Uniform Code of Military Justice anyway, that 310 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: you're not supposed to follow neeial or so anything drives 311 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 3: him crazy, and the crazier he gets. Now you know, 312 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: he said, well, affordability, that's he's discovered that were and 313 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 3: of course you can't. He's not doing anything about it, 314 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 3: and he just keeps getting distracted, and it does take 315 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 3: much of distract him. 316 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: I think you're right, and I think it is reasonable 317 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: to assume that Donald Trump will do stuff like that. 318 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: But I just want you for one more minute to 319 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: talk about this idea. Is it's more politics, because it 320 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: certainly has, Like I think about Newsom, like Newsom got 321 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: those five seats for Democrats, it was needed, but it also. 322 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: Fighting with Trump did in fact elevate him. 323 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 3: I think there's circumstances of certainly develement Governor Newsom. I 324 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: think since Kelly was obviously elevated by this, I think 325 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: Governor Pritsko has been somewhat elevated by us. But there's 326 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 3: a long way to go between nine to time people 327 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 3: were run for president. If I had to guess, I 328 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 3: don't twenty twenty eight. I think the American people already 329 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: are sick of Trump. They're going to really be sick 330 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 3: of Trump, and they're really going to be sick of 331 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: talking about Trump. And I think the candidate that says 332 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 3: I'm going to focus on the voters in the future 333 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 3: in less than Trump, I think we'll do better. Right now, 334 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,719 Speaker 3: everybody wants Trump to attack them because it enhances their 335 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 3: position in the party. And I think now done a 336 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: good job obviously sent to Kelly, you know, was up 337 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 3: to this mission to say the least right. Same thing 338 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 3: would come to Prisky but I just think that Trump fatigue, 339 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: I don't know what you call it, more than fatiguels him. 340 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 4: It's just going to get worse and worse. 341 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right, and certainly leveling the West wing. 342 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 3: Well, they say they're gonna fire, o't He's supposed to 343 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 3: fire a bunch of people, according to. 344 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: It, from his cabinet, his people or government. 345 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 4: No, his people. 346 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 3: I mean there was a story that who knows Saturday, 347 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 3: It's all I'm gonna do is replace somebody who's really 348 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 3: offered with someone who's even more off. 349 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, James Carville, I hope he'll come back. 350 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 4: I will come back. 351 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 3: And remember if the way he is to be economically 352 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 3: aggressive to make this a more the way you make 353 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 3: this society more professes, you make it more just, and 354 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 3: you create more opportunity. 355 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: Jared Abbott is the director of the Center for Working 356 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: Class Politics. 357 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 2: Jared Abbott, Welcome to vast Politics. 358 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 5: Thank you, happy to be here. 359 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: First, we've got to start with the democratic penalty because 360 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: this is such a fascinating idea. So I want you 361 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: to explain to us where this came from, how you 362 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: got here everything. 363 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, we center Ford and Cross Politics, where I'm 364 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 6: the director. We're trying to We have this intuition, like 365 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 6: most people on our side do, that the Democratic brand 366 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 6: is very weak, is particularly among independents and obviously Republicans. 367 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 6: But we wanted to quantify that in some way that 368 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 6: would allow us to just go out there and tell 369 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 6: Democrats all over the country like, this is literally what 370 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 6: you losing just by being a Democrat. And so we 371 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 6: did this survey in restpout states, in four states in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, 372 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 6: and Ohio. And we had some of the best versions 373 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 6: of strong economic populist candidates, their sound bites, and we 374 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 6: sort of gave these to the respondents and the survey 375 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 6: and very strong candidates that we think would do well 376 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 6: in those in those states. 377 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 5: And some of the respondents. 378 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 6: Got those great economic populist champions as Democrats, and some 379 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 6: of them got the exact same candidates as independents. And 380 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 6: it turns out that changing nothing else but the party 381 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 6: identification costs Democrats in Ohio like fifteen points. They costs 382 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 6: democrats in Michigan, you know, ten or eleven points. The 383 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 6: one state where we actually didn't see a penalty at 384 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 6: all was in Pennsylvania. And there's a lot of potential 385 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 6: reasons for that, but in general, we see that in 386 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 6: these quite working class heavy states without as large of 387 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 6: sort of metropolitan urban centers like in Pennsylvania. You know, 388 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,439 Speaker 6: we see these major penalties simply by having the D 389 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 6: next to your name, and that helps us to explain, 390 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 6: you know why it's maybe the greatest champion in the 391 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 6: Senate of economic populism, Jared Brown, you know, couldn't overcome 392 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 6: you know, that disadvantage despite him his Berkeley being very 393 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 6: popular in the state and running on what we think, 394 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,439 Speaker 6: you know, created in a lab should be you know, 395 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 6: the perfect messaging for working class voters in Ohio. 396 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 397 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: I want to go back to Sharon Brown in a minute, 398 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: but first I just want to like game this out 399 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. Is the reason that the D next to 400 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:41,200 Speaker 1: the name not toxic in Pennsylvania because of Governor Shapiro 401 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: in any which way? 402 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 5: I don't know. I mean it could be. 403 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 6: I think that's a reasonable hypothesis, and we're doing some 404 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 6: follow up work now to dig into this. 405 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: Because he's very popular. He's a Democrat, Yeah, he is 406 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: very popular. 407 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 5: You know. 408 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 6: Governor Whitmer's not unpopular and so it's not like there's 409 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 6: a there's a huge distinction. 410 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 5: So I don't actually know. 411 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 6: I think there's a lot of potential reasons why that 412 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 6: could be the case, and we're sort of digging into it. 413 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 6: But we do know that in places in Pennsylvania, you 414 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 6: know that we're more Republican leaning, that we're more working 415 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 6: class heavy, we do see that penalty. So stay wide, 416 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 6: we don't see it, but we do see it in 417 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 6: areas that look more like the Roustbelt parts of. 418 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 5: Michigan or Ohio or Wisconsin. 419 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: So it sounds like your working theory, as much as 420 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: you have one, is that DS do better in urban 421 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: areas and the D penalty is worse in rural areas. 422 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 5: Yes, that's correct, and that's not verified yet. 423 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 6: We're still doing more tests, but I think that that's 424 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 6: probably an important part of the story. 425 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: So can you explain to us is tied to the 426 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: race of the voters at all? 427 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 6: It could be there's a stronger democratic penalty among white 428 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 6: voters than black voters. 429 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 5: Definitely that's the case. 430 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 6: And the democratic penalty also has a gender dynae, even 431 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 6: among black voters, where it's significantly larger among black men 432 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 6: than it is among black women. 433 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 5: The penalty is quite. 434 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 6: Large, in fact larger among Latino voters in our survey 435 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 6: than it was among white voters, which is really interesting. 436 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,479 Speaker 1: So that is interesting. So you have the penalty is 437 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: the worst for Latino voters. I mean, the penalty speaks 438 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: to the brand absolutely. 439 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: So if you have. 440 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: Latino voters with it the least happy, and then you 441 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: have white voters in the middle, and then you have 442 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 1: black female voters as the sort of most open to 443 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: the brand, I think that's very interesting. 444 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, and it's something that you know, even though 445 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 6: there is this penalty, we're not trying to draw conclusions 446 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 6: from this. You know that Democrats can't make up ground, 447 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 6: they can't turn their image around, but we do think 448 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 6: that they're going to have to work extremely hard to 449 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 6: do so among these voters for whom Democratic brand is 450 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 6: you know, basically in the trash can. And there's a 451 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 6: sense in which they can only really do that if they. 452 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 5: Focus on economic populace and in. 453 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 6: Cases where it's possible, we think that people that are 454 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 6: trying to beat Republicans, be they Democrats or independents, you know, 455 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 6: they should think even more outside the box of not 456 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 6: running Democratic candidates like like like Dan Osborne and Nebraska. 457 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 5: We don't know how well he's going to do this year. 458 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 6: Obviously, but he ran a campaign that was you know, 459 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 6: way ahead of Harris in Nebraska, and he outperformed baseline expectations, 460 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 6: you know, even compared to virtually anybody else running for 461 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 6: the Senate. And so places like that where Democrats are 462 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 6: just never going to win, at least in the short 463 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 6: to medium term, are the places where you know, we 464 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 6: need to be thinking much more creatively about different options 465 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 6: for be being Republicans. And I think our survey shows 466 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 6: you know how important that is. But it doesn't mean 467 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 6: that in places where you know that's not viable because 468 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 6: you know, there's always going to be a Democratic candidate 469 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 6: and we don't want to elect the Republican that they 470 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 6: can't do things that are going to improve the odds 471 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 6: by doubling down on you know, cost of living, affordability, 472 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 6: and also anger at the economic elites that have been 473 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 6: screwing over working people in this country for decades. And thankfully, 474 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 6: I mean, like a bolt of lightning from the heavens, 475 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 6: Jim Carville comes out with the you know, with the. 476 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 5: Of the New York Times this week like preaching my 477 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 5: my gospel. 478 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 6: So I was extremely pleased to see that what we're saying, 479 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 6: and what many others you know that have been saying 480 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 6: similar things, is breaking through and, if not becoming consensus 481 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 6: among Democrats by any stretch of the imagination, certainly taking 482 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 6: up a lot more airspace than than it did in 483 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 6: twenty twenty four. 484 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 2: James Carvell is the other guest in this episode. One 485 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: is when I read that, I was like. 486 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: Holy shit, we got to get James on here. But yes, 487 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: I want to go back for a minute to Dan 488 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 1: Osborne because he's very central to this thesis in a. 489 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: Lot of ways. 490 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: For sure, even though I just want to say, like 491 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: for my own edification and also because black women have 492 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,919 Speaker 1: just been continually screwed again and again and again and 493 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: by American politics in every which way, is interesting to 494 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: me that they are the most positive on the brand 495 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: because they are the base of the party in a 496 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: lot of different ways. And they also, you know, you 497 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: have to wonder how their relationship to the Harris run, 498 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I just I just 499 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: wonder how much that affects them. But that again, neither 500 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: of us can speak to that particularly, but talk to 501 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: us about Dianne Osborne though, because he did really run 502 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: and again it was a very tough race. Nebraska is tough. 503 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: He's going to run again. But I just he really 504 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: didn't embody a lot of what you're talking about. 505 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, this is somebody that is able to 506 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 6: speak the language of working people in a way that 507 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 6: most Democrats are not. And he talked about the problems 508 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 6: of corporate greed, and he can inequality, you know, viscerally 509 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 6: from his own experience, right, somebody who had literally been 510 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 6: a union organizer, had you know, been a leader in 511 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 6: a strike against you know, big corporation, n Keller Corporation. 512 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 6: And he's somebody who literally embodied all of the kinds 513 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 6: of values and the critiques that working class people have 514 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 6: had for decades about you know, the fact that our 515 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 6: country is essentially being run by by an oligarchy. And 516 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 6: in addition to that, he was really smart about knowing 517 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 6: the electorate of Nebraska. Right, we need to have candidates 518 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 6: who can win in a huge diversity of places in 519 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 6: this country, many more than you know, currently Democrats aren't 520 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 6: really capable of winning in and that requires somebody like 521 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 6: Dan Osborne who's able to talk to voters about, you know, 522 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 6: difficult issues in a way that they can understand, in 523 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 6: a way that they don't find to be condescending, but 524 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 6: without completely undermining or you know Negaate, you know core 525 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 6: values that he has about the importance of civil rights 526 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 6: and of human dignity. And so I think there's many 527 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 6: lessons that can be drawn from that, and I think 528 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 6: many candidates this year are drawing from those lessons. And 529 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 6: we see a much wider bench of economic populist candidates 530 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 6: running in very difficult contexts and competitive context than we 531 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 6: saw last year. 532 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 5: And I think that's very encouraging. 533 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: So you're talking about Graham Platner. 534 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 6: I'm talking about Platner, I'm talking about Nathan Sage, and 535 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 6: I I'm talking about Rebecca Cook in Wisconsin. 536 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 5: We're seeing a bench here of House. 537 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 6: Candidates and even the Senate candidates and Gubernor Tour, I 538 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 6: mean Governor elect Cheryl in New Jersey was running a 539 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 6: quite a populist, like a shocking lead from my vantage 540 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 6: point populist campaign and sounding like I don't know if 541 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 6: it's Jen Osborne or Berry Sanders or whoever else, but 542 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 6: sounding like a real populace in a way that I 543 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 6: wouldn't have really imagined before. And so I think that 544 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 6: that kind of candidate is expanding in scope and getting 545 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 6: more of a serious here from funders than they would 546 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 6: have in the past. And I also think that that 547 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,360 Speaker 6: general ethos, as you're going to hear from Carville as well, 548 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 6: is seeping into the party in a really positive way 549 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 6: that I think that, combined with the surprisingly strong showing 550 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 6: that Democrats had in twenty twenty five, is putting us 551 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 6: on the path. You know, it making me at least 552 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 6: more hopeful than I was six months ago. 553 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: For sure. 554 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: You can't talk about this subject without talking about the 555 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: Democratic brand being bad. 556 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,399 Speaker 2: It's not as bad as a Trump brand. 557 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 5: Well, it's not far off. 558 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 2: It's not far off. 559 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: We have this fight club happening in the Senate, and 560 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. There's an article in 561 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: your Times, reported article about this group of senators, Chris Murphy, 562 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: Tina Smith. I was a little surprised to see Van 563 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: Holland in there. 564 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: And again van Holland, you'll remember. 565 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: Went to visit kil Mar Obrego Garcia, who was a 566 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: marilynd Man. So got Van Holland in there. Bernie and 567 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: Warren not a huge surprise, but Van Holland Basically, these 568 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: guys they're mad at the sort of establishment recruiting, the 569 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: establishment push. 570 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: It's called fight Club. 571 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: And they're mad at both Humor and Jilibrand because Jillibrand 572 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: is the Senate, is the head of the Senate's Democratic 573 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,959 Speaker 1: campaign arm and they're mad. They basically, I'm just going 574 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: to give you their sort of demands. I think this 575 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: is super interesting in my mind. And the other senators 576 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: in this group are Marquee, which makes sense, Merkley, Martin Heinrich, 577 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: all my sort of secret favorites. But basically, what I 578 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: think is really interesting is they're mad about the candidates 579 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: that these guys have picked. And I think it's important 580 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: because they feel they're too corporate friendly. But some of 581 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: these candidates, the sort of establishment candidates they picked, aren't 582 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: so great, right, Like, especially in Michigan, Haley Stevens seems like, 583 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we've had it on this podcast. She seems 584 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: like she's really struggling. So I'd love you to sort 585 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: of talk us through what you think about this division, 586 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: and it sort of goes along with what you're thinking. 587 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,479 Speaker 6: Is yeah, no, I mean, I think that's great that 588 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 6: there's pushback against you know, the same all same, all 589 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 6: sorts of tried and true but not you know, very 590 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 6: successful corporate democrats, and you know, to build that bench 591 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 6: of people that are saying within that within the chamber, 592 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 6: you know that we need a new kind of Democrat 593 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 6: that has a different image and a different brand. And 594 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 6: and like you said, the great thing about that is 595 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 6: it kind of cuts across the ideological divisions within the party. 596 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 6: And I think and even like a Mom Donnie kind 597 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 6: of is part like in the ether there, right, or 598 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 6: maybe not even like especially. 599 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: Especially because we have Schumer has been just such a 600 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: disaster on monomie and Jill Brant was spreading this lie 601 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: that he had said globalizenifat and when in fact there 602 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: was no nothing to that. 603 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 6: And meanwhile, the you know, the most consummate populist politician 604 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 6: in the United States, you know, is enthralled with Mom Donnie, right, 605 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 6: Donald Trump. And so you know, we're we're definitely seeing 606 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 6: the line shifting and some of the traditional divisions and 607 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 6: axes of competition sort of breaking down and sort of 608 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 6: recasting itself along this sort of elite anti elite axis 609 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 6: and I think that's extremely healthy for the Democratic Party, 610 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 6: and I think that confrontation is long overdue, and I 611 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 6: hope that it deepens and continues so that we can 612 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 6: actually show working people as Democrats, not that you know, 613 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 6: we can say the right thing, but that we're actually 614 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 6: willing to take some risks, We're actually willing to break 615 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 6: some eggs in order to make you know, more pro 616 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 6: working class omelets. 617 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 5: So to speak. 618 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: Tell me what you think leadership should be doing. The 619 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: polls say the brand is bad, what can make the 620 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: brand better? 621 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 6: Well, I think that we're seeing this sort of confirmed 622 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 6: across a range of different recent autopsies like the Deciding 623 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 6: to Win report and you know, Mitch Landers outfit the 624 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 6: Working Class Project put out a report a couple of 625 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 6: weeks ago, and our reports recently have basically shown that 626 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 6: there's a number of pretty common sense things that Democrats 627 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 6: need to do, ranging from having more people with working 628 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 6: class backgrounds run for office. Number one is that alone 629 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 6: just creates a messenger that's so much like a Dan 630 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 6: Osborne just shows us so clearly who can connect with 631 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 6: folks just based on his own background in a very 632 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 6: effective way. And beyond that, yeah, focusing like a laser 633 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 6: on affordability and on offering not just affordability in a 634 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 6: narrow sense, but also offering a vision for a middle 635 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 6: class future for Americans, so that Americans feel like their kids' 636 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 6: lives are going to be better than theirs, like my 637 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 6: grandparents thought, like my parents thought, but like I as 638 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 6: a millennial on most people in my generation and lower generations, 639 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 6: the younger generations don't feel. 640 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 5: And the third part of the sauce. 641 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 6: Is to sort of along with what you were just 642 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 6: saying a couple of minutes ago, Molly, really attack the 643 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 6: corporate establishment of this country and take a real fight 644 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 6: and say that there are battle lines here. We're not 645 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 6: going to continue to let this country be run by 646 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 6: economic elites and oligarchs. We need to send costly signals 647 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 6: to voters that we actually believe that our country has 648 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 6: been run in this way and that we are at 649 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 6: a forty year hold of corporate dominance or neoliberalism sometimes 650 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 6: people call it, and that that's got a change. 651 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: Costly symbols. You have ninety seconds to explain what that means. 652 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 6: Democrats need to be willing to pick fights with people 653 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 6: that might be, you know, have given them money in 654 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 6: the past, and they need to be willing to actually 655 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 6: burn some bridges. 656 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 5: And they need to be willing. 657 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 6: To show voters that they're not just saying things on TV, 658 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 6: but then at home and among their donors and strategists 659 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 6: doing something completely different. 660 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 5: They need to put their money where their mouth. 661 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 2: Is that a a pack, it's. 662 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 6: You know, not taking you know, corporate donations. Having more 663 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 6: candidates commit to a rule of no corporate pack money 664 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 6: would be a great start. 665 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 2: Jared, this is so interesting. I hope you will come 666 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 2: back absolutely. 667 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. 668 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 669 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best 670 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 671 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 672 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. 673 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.