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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of the show.

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Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, everybody. We've been mixing and matching all the

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Speaker 4: show hosts. Looks week. Great to have Ryan Grim with

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Speaker 4: me today.

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Speaker 1: Good to be back here again. This has been a

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Speaker 1: fun week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so my name. My kids were off school, so

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Speaker 2: I stayed home with them. Of course they've just been

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Speaker 2: like all school a week now. With the snow that

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Speaker 2: we had, Sager' sound sick today, so Ryan has been

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Speaker 2: doing overtime for us.

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Speaker 1: Better next week. The flu this season has been insane,

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Speaker 1: but Jeremy had it. He was like, oh really, he

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Speaker 1: was laid out for like two week.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It has been decimating my kids' schools for sure. The

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Speaker 2: one like I can manage a flu, the one I

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Speaker 2: cannot manage is the neurovirus.

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Speaker 4: That's the one I live in terror of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's been going through my daughter's school as well.

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Speaker 2: So we're open, we're praying to avoid them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: In any case, we got a lot to get to

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Speaker 2: in the show today. It was actually very difficult to

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Speaker 2: choose the stories because there were so much we wanted

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Speaker 2: to cover. We've got a bunch of updates for you

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Speaker 2: with regard to Doge, the latest cuts where they're hitting,

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Speaker 2: also a little bit of Republican pushback on some of

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Speaker 2: the specific spending cuts, including some commons from Jesse Waters,

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Speaker 2: which was a bit of a surprise. They've also been

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Speaker 2: caught in more lives and screw ups with regard to

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Speaker 2: what they claim they have cut, So we'll take a

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Speaker 2: look at all of that and do a little debunking there.

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Speaker 2: We have huge developments with regard to Ukraine. So Zelenski

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Speaker 2: rejected Trump's offer to like, you know, basically give up

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Speaker 2: half his country, all his rare earth minerals and the

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Speaker 2: ports and the whatever, and now Trump is out calling

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Speaker 2: him a dictator and blaming him directly for the war.

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Speaker 2: So huge, sort of one to eighty there in terms

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Speaker 2: of the US dance and even in terms of Trump's

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Speaker 2: rhetoric and Trump's dance. So break that down for you.

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Speaker 2: We also have a new significant development in terms of

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Speaker 2: the courts, Trump refusing to abide by one particular court order.

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Speaker 2: That is a significant escalation in what I considered to

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Speaker 2: be a constitutional crisis. He is also declaring himself king

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Speaker 2: literally and blocking the New York City congestion pricing. So

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Speaker 2: that's an interesting story just in terms of the local

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Speaker 2: politics and then also in terms of Trump inserting himself

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Speaker 2: in that city's politics and policy. Specifically, We've got a

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Speaker 2: guest on who's been directly impacted by the spending freeze.

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Speaker 2: He's going to talk about how that has been impactful

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Speaker 2: to his company and the people that he's trying to

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Speaker 2: help and serve. And I'm also taking a look at

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Speaker 2: how Trump and Elon are basically doing like.

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Speaker 4: A rug pull on the whole country.

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Speaker 2: So putting a few pieces together here is something I've

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Speaker 2: been thinking.

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Speaker 4: About for a while.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the turn with Silenski is extraordinary because everybody saw

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Speaker 1: where this was going, but I don't think anybody saw

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Speaker 1: that it was going to go this dark as fast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's bleak ye if you're if you're a Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: if you're a Lensky, you went from being feted across

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Speaker 1: the United States and the West to being called a.

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Speaker 2: Dictator, right, And this is when your adversary here is

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Speaker 2: Vladimir Putin, who is much more accurately characterized.

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Speaker 4: As a dictator. So there's obviously if.

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Speaker 1: Trump Trump should be a little more cautious about throwing

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Speaker 1: that word around at this on the same day that

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Speaker 1: he's putting up a picture of himself with a crown, right.

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Speaker 1: Literally he hates when people call him that anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean truly, actually Elon is the true

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Speaker 2: dictator here, So maybe he's just trying to reclaim some

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Speaker 2: of this power.

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Speaker 1: Right, Hey, if ruling without an election means you're a

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Speaker 1: dictator according to Elon, what is Elon? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Very I think we know the answer to that, and

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Speaker 2: that is a good transition into the first blog. So,

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Speaker 2: as I mentioned before, we have had a little bit

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Speaker 2: of Republican pushback, and part of this is coming from

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Speaker 2: you know, all these different Republican senators and congressmen. They're

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Speaker 2: realizing like, oh, this and that project in my district

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Speaker 2: are directly affected, or as in the case with the

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Speaker 2: USAID funding freeze, like oh, the farmers in my state

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Speaker 2: are going to be completely screwed by this. But one

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Speaker 2: thing that many of these people didn't seem to realize

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Speaker 2: is that there are a lot of veterans in the

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Speaker 2: federal government and also actually DEI programs also include, oftentimes

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Speaker 2: opportunities specifically for veterans. So one of the people who

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Speaker 2: is apparently finding this out is Fox News host Jesse Waters,

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Speaker 2: who took those airwaves with a plea for a specific

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Speaker 2: friend of his.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

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Speaker 5: Let me tell you a story about Chris. Chris was

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Speaker 5: a guy I met at a shooting event in New

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Speaker 5: Jersey last year.

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Speaker 4: Is Chris and the interview?

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Speaker 1: This is another guy? This is Chris.

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Speaker 4: Is it a male or female? Oh?

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Speaker 5: He was a twenty year veteran of the US military.

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Speaker 5: He was one of these guys in one of these

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Speaker 5: elite units, killed a lot of bad guys, put his

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Speaker 5: life on the line, and now he punched out after

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Speaker 5: twenty years and working for the Pentagon, and he's only

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Speaker 5: been there a few months, so he's probationary and he

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Speaker 5: just found out he's probably going to get laid off.

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Speaker 1: He's going to get doged.

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Speaker 5: And he texted me and he said, Jesse, see, you

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Speaker 5: know this isn't good. I'm upset.

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Speaker 1: This is really sad.

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Speaker 5: And this guy's not a DEI consultant. This guy's not

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Speaker 5: a climate consultant.

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Speaker 4: You know, this guy is a veteran.

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Speaker 5: So when you're talking about doging people, veterans should get priority,

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Speaker 5: because if you're going to go out there and kill

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Speaker 5: enemies and put your life on the line for this country,

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Speaker 5: you shouldn't be in the same category as people that

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Speaker 5: are doing DEI. Now, Harold and his ILK like to

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Speaker 5: talk about the slash and burn corporate ethos. We just

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Speaker 5: need to be a little bit less callous with the way, Harold,

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Speaker 5: we talk about doging people. Okay, I just want to

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Speaker 5: I want that to sink in your argument.

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Speaker 1: Good I'm not killing.

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Speaker 5: I finally found one person I knew that got doge,

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Speaker 5: and it hit me in the heart.

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Speaker 2: There is so much about that that is fascinating. First

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Speaker 2: of all, I like the terminal terminology getting doged right,

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Speaker 2: going to adopt that. But in addition, so first he

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Speaker 2: says that this individual who you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know as circumstances, isn't a DEI consultant. He

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Speaker 2: may well have been part of a DEI hiring program

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Speaker 2: since they do oftentimes benefit veterans. But also what he's

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Speaker 2: specifically advocating here for Ryan is a DEI program to

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Speaker 2: make sure that veterans, because he finds them to be

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Speaker 2: a sympathetic group that he believes is you know, worthy

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Speaker 2: of humanity and keeping their jobs, that they should be

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Speaker 2: enabled to stay there.

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Speaker 1: And for some reason, over the years, veterans have not

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Speaker 1: done a very good job of establishing the federal role

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Speaker 1: workers as a as related to the Veterans program. But

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Speaker 1: it is like over the decades what the United States

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Speaker 1: did is used the federal government as a way to

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Speaker 1: give a leg up to people who were finishing their service. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I was talking to a couple of veterans last

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Speaker 1: night who because I was tweeting about this Jesse Waters

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Speaker 1: thing and they were reaching out and one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the points they made is that when you

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Speaker 1: leave the service, whether you did your four years or

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Speaker 1: twenty It can be difficult to get private sector work

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Speaker 1: immediately because they will say you need, you know, three

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Speaker 1: to five years of industry experience. And like a good

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Speaker 1: friend of mine, for instance, did you know telecommunications work

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Speaker 1: for the army? But that's for the army. So he

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Speaker 1: had all the skills, but it was difficult to immediately

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Speaker 1: get into the private sector. Like eventually he got some

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Speaker 1: entry level stuff because he had so many skills, he

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Speaker 1: moved up quickly. But some companies recognize that experience, others don't.

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Speaker 1: The federal government does. So the federal governments, we know

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Speaker 1: that you're well trained and you're good, like you come

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Speaker 1: on in and he's you know, people said that you

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Speaker 1: also have to consider that in the first couple of years,

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Speaker 1: while you're in the probationary period, a lot of these

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Speaker 1: people are still in the guard or reserve. And so

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Speaker 1: if you're going after probationary people who you know, the

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Speaker 1: first couple of years, like a lot of the people

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Speaker 1: who are getting fired, not just the Pentagon, but all

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Speaker 1: across the federal government are active duties military because they're

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Speaker 1: overlapping with that.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, so.

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Speaker 1: You know, we went in twenty years of our covering

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Speaker 1: politics from support our troops to actively like firing our

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Speaker 1: troops in disproportionate numbers in disproportionate numbers.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is that is incredible, and it also just

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Speaker 2: speaks to you know, the what we're being sold is

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Speaker 2: the this is all about merit, and it's all about efficiency, etc.

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Speaker 2: When you're just blanket firing everyone who happens to fall

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Speaker 2: in a particular category, or you know, with the deferred

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Speaker 2: resignation program, you're most likely to be culling actually the

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Speaker 2: highest level, most difficult to replace, people who have the

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Speaker 2: largest number of opportunities in the private sector. And let

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Speaker 2: me tell you, once they're out in the private sector

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Speaker 2: making those salaries, they're very unlikely to come back. It's

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Speaker 2: actually the polar opposite of you know, selecting for merit

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Speaker 2: and making sure that it's the best and the brightest

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Speaker 2: serving in government. So you've got a little bit of

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Speaker 2: an inkling of of awareness dawning on Jesse Waters and

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Speaker 2: some others.

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Speaker 4: With regard to the way that the federal.

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Speaker 2: Government has benefit veterans. You also have, as I mentioned before,

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Speaker 2: some Republicans who are starting to feel some pain in

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Speaker 2: terms of priorities for their constituents in their districts and

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Speaker 2: their states. Susan Collins has come out with a statement,

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Speaker 2: Now we can put this up on the screen.

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Speaker 4: This is from Politico.

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Speaker 2: They're actually member of outlets that we're out with kind

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Speaker 2: of similar stories about different Republican rumblings about this or

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Speaker 2: that program.

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Speaker 4: She says, you'll see lawsuits.

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Speaker 2: She actually questioned, she said, I think it's pretty clear

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Speaker 2: that this violates Article one of the Constitution. She's significant

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Speaker 2: not only because she's one of the few remaining Republicans

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Speaker 2: in a pretty blue state of Maine, but she also

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Speaker 2: is the chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee. What did

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Speaker 2: you make of her comments? Ryan, And like, do you

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Speaker 2: think that it matters because typically, you know Susan Collins,

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Speaker 2: Lisa Murkowski, they'll do like a little bit of oh

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Speaker 2: they need to slow down a little and I'm a

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Speaker 2: little uncomfortable or whatever, but when push comes to shove,

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Speaker 2: they just basically go along with everything.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, it matters because of her position, like the Appropriations

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Speaker 1: Committee considers itself to be in particular, the Senate Appropriations

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Speaker 1: Committee considers itself to be the wellspring of everything that

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Speaker 1: the United States government does. Yeah, like they call the

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Speaker 1: subcommittee chairs cardinals like they because they want it to

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Speaker 1: be clear that power is being projected from the House

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Speaker 1: Appropriations Committee in the Senate Appropriations Committee. And for her

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Speaker 1: to get to that position her entire career, she's wanted

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Speaker 1: to get on that spot because with the flick of

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Speaker 1: a wrists, she's sending billions of dollars here and there,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden she's being told, actually, no.

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Speaker 4: We're not Yeah, actually you don't matter anymore.

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Speaker 1: You're making suggestions and it's the administration that is going

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Speaker 1: to pick and choose which ones will actually execute on,

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Speaker 1: and that is an existential threat. The reason she matters

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Speaker 1: is because the government, unless Trump just completely ignores everything,

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Speaker 1: will shut down on March fourteenth without a spending package

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Speaker 1: being passed through Congress. A spending package really needs Susan

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Speaker 1: Collins as the Senate Appropriations here now if Republicans, because

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Speaker 1: how do you get sixty Democrats if Susan Collins is

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Speaker 1: vociferously opposed to it, I don't see how you get there.

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Speaker 1: So then the government shuts down, So you need her. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: you've got as we're going to talk about Trump supporting

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Speaker 1: the House subversion over the Senate side, which includes all

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Speaker 1: these Medicaid cuts. So I do think the fact the

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Speaker 1: fact that she's Susan Collins doesn't matter. I'm sure he

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Speaker 1: hates Susan Collins. He does he even care if she

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Speaker 1: wins reelection in twenty twenty six. I don't know they

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Speaker 1: can afford to lose her, right, But the fact that

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Speaker 1: she sits in this choke hold position at the top

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Speaker 1: of the Senate Appropriations Committee, I think matters at least

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Speaker 1: in this moment.

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Speaker 4: Is she up in twenty twenty six, I didn't realize that.

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Speaker 1: I think she is right because she I think you're.

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Speaker 2: Right because I think she was up in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 4: She was part of that. There was an expectation she

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Speaker 4: would is that right.

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Speaker 2: She was up in twenty twenty, she was up in

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Speaker 2: oh so it would be yeah, yeah, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1: Right, okay, and she'll probably face Jared not working. It

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Speaker 1: probably faced Jared Golden, who's extremely popular House member there,

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Speaker 1: who was wanting in a Trump like three.

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Speaker 2: Straight times and in an environment that's just, you know,

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Speaker 2: increasingly partisan, where I think there was previously more democratic

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Speaker 2: face willingness to oh. I like this particular senator whereas

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Speaker 2: Republicans have made that like sort of more hard partisan

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Speaker 2: switch years ago. So I do think she could be

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Speaker 2: in trouble, but in I think you're right, term probably

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Speaker 2: doesn't really care all that much.

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Speaker 1: And it works for her to stand up to Trump

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Speaker 1: in Maine.

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Speaker 4: True. Yeah, so that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: Also interesting, put the Washington Post version of the story

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Speaker 2: up on the screen. They covered some of the things

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Speaker 2: we've already talked about. Katie Brett down in Alabama being like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know about this NIH funding. Some of the

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Speaker 2: senators who have come from farming states, I don't know

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Speaker 2: about this UAI d USAID freeze. We need to get this,

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Speaker 2: you know, agriculture and the products.

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Speaker 1: And the money for conservation and all these contracts that

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Speaker 1: and you've probably seen these going around TikTok, these like farmers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: We're like, wait a minute, Like I spent all this

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Speaker 1: money on my farm because I had a contract with

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Speaker 1: federal government.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Especially, yeah, now out of pocket eight grand that I

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Speaker 2: thought was going to be half reimbursed by the federal government,

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Speaker 2: and I'm literally screwed, Like my farm is gone if

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Speaker 2: this doesn't ultimately come through. So they're hearing from those constituents.

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Speaker 2: But actually what I found most interesting in this article

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Speaker 2: was from one of the people who is supporting Doge

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Speaker 2: and Trump and Elon fully, which is Senator Tommy Tubberville,

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Speaker 2: who suggested that the new normal may be just Republican

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Speaker 2: senators and congress people having to go and plead their

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Speaker 2: case to Trump and Elon And you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that's the way that they would like it to be,

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Speaker 2: where they can sort of, you know, dispense the favor

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Speaker 2: of the king to people who are in their good graces,

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Speaker 2: and that helps to continue to you know, enforce compliance

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Speaker 2: with their will and make sure everybody's on board. So

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Speaker 2: he said, and I quote, if we have to lobyfore,

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Speaker 2: hey wait a minute, what about that bridge in Birmingham

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Speaker 2: or there's a bridge and mobile or whatever. I think

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Speaker 2: that could be very possible. So he's laying out that,

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Speaker 2: you know, he's fine with that direction because he has

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Speaker 2: favored status with the King. He wants to keep that

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Speaker 2: favored status with our you know, CEO and chair of

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Speaker 2: the board or whatever you want to call this duo

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Speaker 2: at this point, and that that may just be the

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Speaker 2: new reality. And I think there's probably something to that,

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Speaker 2: because you know, Trump has truly claimed the power of

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Speaker 2: the purse for himself. We're going to cover some of

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Speaker 2: his additional moves, you know, issuing this Executive Order two

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Speaker 2: saying only I and Pam Bondi the Attorney General, get

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Speaker 2: to have a say on what is legal. You know,

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Speaker 2: he of course said this thing about there is no

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Speaker 2: breaking the law if you're saving the country. He literally

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Speaker 2: declared himself a king in the context of this New

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Speaker 2: York City congestion plan. And so Tommy Tupperville laying it

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Speaker 2: out like, yeah, that's just how things are now. You

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Speaker 2: have to go and beg your case to the people

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Speaker 2: with power if you want to get these projects in

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Speaker 2: your district.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, there's that famous allegorical story of

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Speaker 1: you know, the hippie who's like go, you know, walking

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Speaker 1: through the West and he comes to a fence and

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Speaker 1: he's like, fences, Man, I hate this fence. Why is

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Speaker 1: this fence here? It just takes the fence apart, and

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Speaker 1: then whatever calamity ensues, like your pick your calamity, the

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Speaker 1: hogs run out and they just and they destroy the

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Speaker 1: forest by chewing everything up or whatever it is, without

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Speaker 1: any stepping back and saying why is this fence here

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Speaker 1: and who built this fence and why And usually that

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Speaker 1: is an allegory that's told by the right about reckless

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Speaker 1: left wingers who just they just barrel in and they

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Speaker 1: just just change every change everything, And the conservatives are

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Speaker 1: the ones that understand fence is there for a reason.

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Speaker 1: The you know what Trump is and Tuberville here are

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Speaker 1: kind of proposing is not brand new on the scene.

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Speaker 1: Like if you would have told LBJ or Richard Nixon

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Speaker 1: that hey, that the president is going to dole out

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Speaker 1: projects and that's how he's going to crew power over

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Speaker 1: these members of Congress, they be like, yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: is that is how I roll. It was after Nixon

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Speaker 1: so thoroughly abused and Johnson abused it too, that they

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Speaker 1: that Congress reassorted itself and passed the Empowerment Control Act

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Speaker 1: and these other laws. It said, no, that's not constitutional,

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Speaker 1: we do this, not you, because you get too much

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Speaker 1: power if you do that. And so now they're trying

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Speaker 1: to roll that back. So it's always like, well, there's

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Speaker 1: a reason there's a fence here. Maybe you don't like

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Speaker 1: the fence, but you know, be careful what you wish for.

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Speaker 2: There's also the context of you know, in those prior

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Speaker 2: eras in LBJ and FDR era, there was a lot

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Speaker 2: more cross party collaboration because the parties had not ideologically

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Speaker 2: sorted themselves in the way that they.

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Speaker 1: Have regional politics.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, there were a lot more regional politics. And

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Speaker 2: so now you have this set of very clear blue states,

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Speaker 2: very clear red states, and a few states that are

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Speaker 2: on the margin that are like the only ones that

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Speaker 2: matter in terms of presidential politics and the only ones

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Speaker 2: where you could see, you know, shift back and forth

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Speaker 2: tween who represents them, which party represents them in the Senate.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's a recipe for Okay, when Republicans

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Speaker 2: are power in power, then red states get some of

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Speaker 2: their projects and blue states get actively screwed. And guess

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Speaker 2: what when Democrats are in power, if that is such

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Speaker 2: a thing that's ever allowed or possible again in the future,

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Speaker 2: they're going to reciprocate. They're going to do the exact

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Speaker 2: same thing. Like once you have started in this direction,

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Speaker 2: you think the next president is going to be like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to handpower back to Congress. Very unlikely, very unlikely.

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Speaker 2: So let's get into some of the things you know,

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Speaker 2: just I'll do a sort of speed run through some

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Speaker 2: of the most recent cutch which will help to help

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Speaker 2: to help to explain why some of these Republicans are

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Speaker 2: getting a little leery. Even if they're not saying a

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Speaker 2: whole lot publicly and in no order, I expect them really

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Speaker 2: to say a whole lot publicly, because ultimately the bottom

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Speaker 2: line is they all have come to understand they have

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Speaker 2: to pay fealty to Trump and to his movement and

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Speaker 2: elon at this point, or else they will get screwed

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Speaker 2: and he is not afraid to do it, or they'll

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Speaker 2: have primary challenges against them, etc.

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Speaker 4: So A three, We've got the.

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Speaker 2: USDA accidentally firing officials who were working on bird flu

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Speaker 2: and now trying to rehire them, but apparently having trouble

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Speaker 2: with that because they are struggling to find them. They

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Speaker 2: didn't bother to get their new contact information. So this

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Speaker 2: speaks to the just sort of blanket like, oh, we're

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Speaker 2: just going to blanket fire this group of people. Turns

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Speaker 2: out in this instance and also in the instance of

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Speaker 2: some of the people who were like guarding some of

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Speaker 2: our nuclear sites, some of these individuals are really important

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Speaker 2: and you don't want to fire them, especially when bird

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Speaker 2: flu is looming out there as a possible next pandemic.

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Speaker 2: In addition, we can but the next one up on

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Speaker 2: the screen. So they have decimated this Education Department arm

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Speaker 2: that is really devoted to studying the efficacy of public

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Speaker 2: schools across the country. So seeing which schools are doing well,

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Speaker 2: which schools are performing poorly, that seems like something you

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Speaker 2: would kind of want to know. Let's put the next

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Speaker 2: one up on the screen. Also, in their zeal to

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Speaker 2: cut at the Department of Education, in particular, they've let

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Speaker 2: go of ten percent of federal student aid staff, so

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Speaker 2: they sit in prem Thacker says this comes after young

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Speaker 2: DOGE staffers obtained a ministry of access at the Department

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Speaker 2: of Education, so that was one of the first casualties there.

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Speaker 2: Put the next one up on the screen. And Trump

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Speaker 2: has also cut numerous top researchers at NIH's Center for

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Speaker 2: combating Alzheimer's huge setback potentially in the fight against various

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Speaker 2: forms of dementia. Anyone, of course, who's had a relative

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Speaker 2: who has gone through this parent, loved one, etc. Knows

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Speaker 2: how absolutely devastating it was. And the irony here too

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Speaker 2: is that this was a cause, Greg Sargent points out

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Speaker 2: once championed by Republicans. In fact, he specifically points out

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Speaker 2: that the nih Is Center for Alzheimer's and Related Dementia's

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Speaker 2: or CARD its full name is the Roy Blunt Senator

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Speaker 2: Center for Alzheimer's and Related Dementias in honor of former

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Speaker 2: Republican Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, who was very influential.

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Speaker 2: What did you make of these cuts in particular, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: What stood down to you here?

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Speaker 1: The counter argument to Alzheimer's in particular, and more broadly

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Speaker 1: to a lot of these NIH cuts is that, well,

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Speaker 1: they're not They're doing a really bad job. We still

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Speaker 1: have Alzheimer's. Like that, Like, that's the argument that you hear.

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Speaker 1: And there's a more sophisticated argument that says that the

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Speaker 1: particular approach that the researchers who were getting all of

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Speaker 1: the NIH funding to Alzheimer's has been a dead end

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Speaker 1: and has there and has set us back by ten

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Speaker 1: or fifteen years, and so you actually need to break

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Speaker 1: up this kind of intellectual cabal that has gotten in

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Speaker 1: the way of progress. My counter counter argument would be

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Speaker 1: that's not what they're doing here, though, Like, first of all,

439
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: there was a new director coming in who was not associated.

440
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: You know, obviously everybody is somewhat of those get it

441
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: with that, but that's but that was not her main

442
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 1: line of interest. This like dead end research, and they

443
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: fired her. Uh, And they're likely to continue doing these

444
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: reductions in force going forward. So it's not as if

445
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 1: they came in and they said, we have evaluated the

446
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,679
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's unit. We feel like you haven't made progress. We

447
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: feel like it's because you focus too much over here.

448
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: And so the people that were doing that, there's going

449
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: to be accountability. You guys are gone. We're going to

450
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: invest broadly across the board and lots of different approaches,

451
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: and we're going to see and if this is a

452
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: scientific approach, we're going to go in with hypotheses and

453
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: we're gonna see which one works. We're gonna stop putting

454
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: our thumb on the scale one way or the other,

455
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,959
Speaker 1: because obviously you have a hypothesis and you pursue that,

456
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: and then at some point if the hypothitis is turning

457
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: on not to be true, you have alternative ones. I

458
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: have alternative ones. They're not doing that. It's not as

459
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: if these people that were fired are going to be

460
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: they're going to backfill, they're gonna retrench, and then they're

461
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 1: gonna fire more people, and then they're going to fire

462
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: more people, and then they're going to cut more funding,

463
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: calling it you know, they're funding to universities and other

464
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,120
Speaker 1: projects are gonna cut. They're going to cut that further back.

465
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: So you know, if if you really were doing a

466
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: Maha approach, saying this didn't work, let's look around, we're

467
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 1: not a healthy country. This is what we're gonna do. Okay,

468
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: that's one thing, but there's no the indication is that

469
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: they're just cutting and they're gonna it's gonna stay cut.

470
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 4: Yes, that's exactly right.

471
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 2: And this is actually the topic of my monologue is

472
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: that a lot of the ethos of Trump two point

473
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: zero is basically like things are bad, so we're going

474
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: to make them worse.

475
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm like, yeah, they are bad, Yeah

476
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 4: they are bad.

477
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: But you know going because because what happens when you

478
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: cut public research funding is that then you become more

479
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 2: reliant on private industry funding. That's the polar opposite of

480
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: the direction that you want to go in. And you know,

481
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: I thought your story about the developments with regard to

482
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 2: breast cancer that are impacting your family directly right now

483
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: is really important and poignant because one of the things

484
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: that I really object to as well is scientific research

485
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: is not necessarily efficient, right because number one, if you

486
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 2: want to find cures for diseases that are potentially rare, like,

487
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: those things aren't going to be profitable, and so there

488
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 2: isn't going to be private research. Not to mention that

489
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: every single new drug molecule that's been invented in the

490
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: past I don't know how many years, has come out

491
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: of public funding. So the drug companies are not really

492
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: doing this type of life saving research. Most of what

493
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: they do is researching some way that they can like

494
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: dupe our patent system and extend their patent on like

495
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 2: viagra or whatever their top selling drug is. So you

496
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 2: know that's there's that, and then there's also the case that,

497
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: as you're pointing out, Ryan, like some of scientific research

498
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 2: is kind of serendipity, and that's what you spoke to

499
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: is like, oh, these people happen to be together at

500
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: a conference which would be classified as quote unquote overhead,

501
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: and because you had this serendipity mixing of these minds

502
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: from different disciplines in different corners of the scientific research community.

503
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: There was a really incredible and important development that was made.

504
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 2: In addition, sometimes you're going to pursue something like with

505
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's that doesn't turn out to be the thing, and

506
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 2: so it's not.

507
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 4: Quote unquote efficient.

508
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: But if you didn't go down that path, you wouldn't know,

509
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 2: and there was a possibility that it did work out,

510
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 2: and it did end up, you know, saving lives and

511
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 2: being incredibly impactful for people. So when you apply this

512
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 2: capitalist business logic to something like public research in the

513
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: benefit of the people, like, you're going to end up

514
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: with far worse results and far fewer breakthroughs that are

515
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: important for all of our lives.

516
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the entire budget for NIH last year was

517
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: forty seven billion dollars. The cost of treating people with

518
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:03,959
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's as people can look that up huge from Medicare

519
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 1: and Medicaid. You and you personally and like you watching this,

520
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: like you personally, or your parents or your cousins or

521
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: somebody might might have to bankrupt yourself so that you

522
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: can get so that Medicaid will then cover either you

523
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: or your parents getting the coverage that they need. When

524
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's hits. And that's aside from the absolute terror that

525
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: Alzheimer's is, plus the heartbreak it is for families who

526
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: are going through it to be in a room physically

527
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: with their loved one, but spiritually they don't even know

528
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: you're there. They don't recognize who you are. To save

529
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: a couple bucks a week is the most is shortsighted

530
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: spiritually and morally, but also fiscally, it costs more money

531
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: down to not try to prevent this, and also, like

532
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: you said, commercially speaking, preventing Alzheimer's, if we can prevent

533
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: it is not the kind of thing that you can

534
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: then market and sell because you can make more money

535
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: treating it with like a blockbuster drug than taking preventing place.

536
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: That's exactly right. What did you say? The NIH budget is.

537
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: I think forty seven.

538
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: Acording to chat GPT, as of twenty twenty four, the

539
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: US projected to spend approximately three hundred and sixty billion

540
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: on health and long term care for individuals living with Alzheimer's.

541
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: That's projected to be up to a trillion by twenty fifty.

542
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: So the entire NIH budget, entire NIH budget that includes

543
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: the weaponized militarized stuff that they're sneaking into Africa for

544
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: labs and whatever, right like that includes even includes that

545
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: is a fraction of what we spend treating Alzheimer's.

546
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this assumption, this is a longer convo, that

547
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: capitalism leads to cost savings and efficiency.

548
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: That feels side way chat GPT might be off on.

549
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: Okay, well you can, you can take a look. They

550
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 2: it does hallucinate, so you never know. But when you

551
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: look at our healthcare system, which we of course put

552
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: profit at the center of our healthcare system, and that

553
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: directly leads to us paying the highest cost and having

554
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: the worst outcomes in the developed world. And so if

555
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: you actually want to improve people's health, what you do

556
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: is you shift that dynamic away from centering profit and

557
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 2: towards actually valuing people's health and cutting back on public

558
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: research spending dollars is again the polar opposite of the

559
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: direction that you ultimately want to go on.

560
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: Did you find any uh, all right, well we'll take it.

561
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 4: We'll take a look and verify.

562
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: Those numbers and post a note in the segment. But yeah,

563
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: blame the blame AI if blame sam Oltman, if the

564
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: numbers aren't.

565
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 4: Ultimately, girl, it's expensive.

566
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of money, and it's worth researching

567
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: to see how we could prevent Alzheimer's ultimately in the

568
00:28:59,240 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 2: long term.

569
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: Thirty one billion for them, this is Alzheimer's impact movement. Wow,

570
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: so it's a lot of money.

571
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: It's a lot of money.

572
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and get to some of

573
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: the spin and the latest spin and lies coming out

574
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: of door. So the whole time, Elon has been like, oh,

575
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: we're going to be so transparent, so transparent, which of

576
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: course is the polar opposite.

577
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: Of the way that they've operated.

578
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: And specifically, they were claiming for weeks that they were

579
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: going to post this list of all the incredible savings

580
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: that they've been able to glean from, you know, these

581
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: these wasteful federal government expenditures.

582
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: This is not chat cheepy too.

583
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: Numbers are correct, all right, Well, the twenty.

584
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Fifty medicare spending on people with Alzheimer's will totally projected

585
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty three billion with a B.

586
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: And that's just medicare, that's just matter, that's not private spending. Wow, unbelievable,

587
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,719
Speaker 2: hundred thirty seven billion. So thanks for saving us all

588
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: that money.

589
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 6: Dough.

590
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 4: You're doing a great.

591
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: Job by firing like eight people working in the Alzheimer's Center,

592
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: eight people. We could do a go like we would

593
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: be smart as a country to do a GoFundMe to

594
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: rehire those those people just just put putting a couple

595
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: of chips onto the table in hopes that they have

596
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: a breakthrough. It would be worth it to all of

597
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: us to just do that. Go fund me out. I'll

598
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: put in five dollars a week on that. Absolutely such

599
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: a great I mean, Alzheimer's just you know, it's personally

600
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: I got to be frightening to everybody. Just if you

601
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: personally are your loved one gets It's just it's almost

602
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: I'd rather get hit by a bus.

603
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

604
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,479
Speaker 2: No, I have very close friend who has been, you know,

605
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: watching this unfold. Yeah, and it's it's one of the

606
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: most difficult things you can go through.

607
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: And you're gonna save a couple bucks a week and

608
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: fire these eight researchers like it's it's cruel and stupid.

609
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, crol and stupid, that is a good way to

610
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: put it. So they've been promising all this transparency about

611
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: all these grapes cuts and savings, et cetera, that they're

612
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: making all these fraudulent supposedly programs that they've been you know,

613
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: they've been rooting out, et cetera, except for the fact

614
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: that you know, all of them that they've suggested this

615
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 2: far like, well, it's not really fraud It might just

616
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: be something you don't like, but it's not actually fraudulent.

617
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: In any case, they finally put out a sproadsheet, and

618
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: lo and behold, even the sproadsheet they put out was

619
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 2: blatantly wrong on any number of levels. Here's a little

620
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: Bloomberg News report breaking some of the numbers down.

621
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 4: What is the number that.

622
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 7: We have calculated, and we'll put this into the context

623
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 7: of the fifty five billion that Elon is, you know,

624
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 7: taking credit for. Yeah, so the DOGE on its website

625
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 7: says that they've saved about fifty five billion dollars for

626
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 7: US taxpayers. But when you go at them and add

627
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 7: up all of the contracts that they list online that

628
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 7: they that they say they've canceled, it only comes to

629
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 7: about eight point six billion dollars, So, you know, just

630
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 7: a small fraction of that overall fifty five billion. Also,

631
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 7: in going through all these contracts. It's clear that there

632
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 7: were It was at least one major clerical era. There

633
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 7: was one contract that was listed for eight billion that

634
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 7: was actually only an eight million dollar contract, So they

635
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 7: had listed about sixteen billion.

636
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 4: But when you take that away, it's a much smaller figure.

637
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 7: This is, you know, sort of really been a key

638
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 7: tension point as Joje has has gone into federal agencies

639
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 7: and started slashing spending and firing staff of that they said, look,

640
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 7: this is the most transparent effort that's out there. You

641
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 7: can go and read all this information. But when it's

642
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 7: both riddled with errors and there is an oversight that

643
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 7: normally you know, is layered above federal agency things like

644
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 7: watchdogs in the Office of Government Ethics, DOOSE really operates

645
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 7: independently of that, and that has raised a lot of concerns,

646
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 7: both from members of Congress as well as other federal

647
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 7: government watchers.

648
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: So it's kind of insulting to all of our intelligence

649
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: that they put out this broadsheet. They're like, oh, we

650
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: save fifty five billion dollars. Okay, Then you literally just

651
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: add up the column and it doesn't add up to

652
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: fifty five billion, It adds up to sixteen point six billion.

653
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 2: Then you sort by which you know many people online

654
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 2: and also reporters in New York Times and whatever. Then

655
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: you sort by like, okay, well, what's the biggest program

656
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: that you cut here, and the one that rises to

657
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: the top is this eight billion dollar program. But then

658
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: you dig into that and it turns out that is

659
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: the compleet error. It's actually not eight billion, it's eight million.

660
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 4: A little bit of a difference there.

661
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: And now your spreadsheet which you claimed indicated savings a

662
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: fifty five billion, which only actually added up to sixteen

663
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: point six billion, now only totals to eight point six billion.

664
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: So one of the sloths online who was digging into this,

665
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 2: let's put this up on the screen, indicates that with

666
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: that eight billion to eight million thing, apparently there was

667
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: originally some type on the contract, so the contract value

668
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 2: was listed at eight billion round than eight million. Then

669
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: it was corrected. The real TCV, I don't know what

670
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: that stands for was eight million. Corrected in January three

671
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: years only three point five million was awarded. So it

672
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: was very easy to discern when like as someone even

673
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: here on the outside was doing that this was not

674
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: the correct amount of money. And then in addition, Ryan,

675
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: if even with the eight million dollar amount, if they've

676
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: already spent three and a half million, right, then you're

677
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: not saving even the entire eight million. And that rationale

678
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: actually applies to all of the other things that were

679
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: in this spreadsheet. So basically it's a complete you know, exaggeration.

680
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 2: Parts of her just completely wrong. And many of these

681
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 2: things too, as I said before, they frame them as

682
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 2: like fraud, but in reality it's just stuff that Elon

683
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: doesn't particularly like.

684
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: And it was customs in Border Protection. I think that

685
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: they Yes, that's right, So people also need to use

686
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: their common sense. And when we think through these numbers,

687
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: Customs and Border Protections entire budget is not that high,

688
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 1: Like it's I don't know offhand exactly what it is.

689
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: You can google that and find it. Eight billion would

690
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: be a huge portion of their entire budget budget. And

691
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: this was like some DII thing or something di I

692
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: training or whatever.

693
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 4: It was something like that.

694
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so then you have to ask yourself, what are

695
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: the chances is that like few thirds of the Border

696
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: Protection's budget is this DEI training. You don't even have

697
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: to then, like google and follow the charts and the

698
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: contracts all the way back to the source, you can

699
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: just like that's probably not true. And there are a

700
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 1: lot of people that are frustrated that Musk isn't getting

701
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: all the flowers that he deserves for this. I think

702
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: what they need to think about is that he is

703
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: a government worker. And if you think about it from

704
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: the perspective of people who don't necessarily trust all government

705
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: workers without having their work be verified and checked, and

706
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: don't necessarily trust the motivations that they have because they

707
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: have their own interests at play. Any government agency that

708
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: made the types of errors that Doge is making at

709
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: this point would be considered waste, fraud, and abuse of

710
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: the most obvious scale. Yes, and you would say, will

711
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: cut this one. They don't have people who can fact

712
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: check their work before putting it up to the public

713
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: to look.

714
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 2: At, or who can use basic common sense, and.

715
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: Who are and who appear to be lying, like actively

716
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: lying yeah, about what they have found now. At the

717
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: same time, I don't want to do much taunting of

718
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: their inability to find saving because I don't want them

719
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: to get more serious, like to then go crazy and

720
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: be like, all right, fine, an entire department of education gone,

721
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: which is not legal, like you want to do that,

722
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: you got to go through Congress. But anyway, so think

723
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: about the DOJE people. And if you if you're on

724
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: this side that thinks all government is like corrupt and wasteful,

725
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: think about DOJE as what it is. It is a

726
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: government agency that is in competition with these other departments

727
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: for money because it is run by a government contractor

728
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: who wants to go to Mars and needs federal resources

729
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, and so that agency has every

730
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: incentive to tell you that all this other spending is

731
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: wasteful and we need to suppress it so that we

732
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: can and this is what you'll eventually hear, so that

733
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 1: we can invest trillions in this project to go to Mars.

734
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

735
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: And I do think that that I'm reading his biography

736
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: right now, the Walter Isaacson one, and you know, have

737
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: been trying to research this creature who is now in

738
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: charge of all of us. And I do think that

739
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: that is like his primary driving goal, which sounds, I mean,

740
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: it sounds sort of insane, because it's a goal. He

741
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 2: has a point in himself, the savior of humanity. He

742
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: believes the thing that we should be driving. That's exactly right.

743
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 2: Savior of human consciousness. He believes the thing we should

744
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: be driving towards is being an interplanetary species.

745
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 4: He talks about this all the time.

746
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: And you know, when he started SpaceX, it really was

747
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: a sort of preposterous boondoggle. But he does it anyway.

748
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: He's able to persist. He's able to get gas billions

749
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 2: of dollars already in federal government content. And you know,

750
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: you should take note of the fact that you've got

751
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 2: SpaceX engineers now in at the FAA. Well, the FAA

752
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,359
Speaker 2: had been investigating Elon and SpaceX for one of their

753
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 2: launches that came apart mid air, which caused huge damage.

754
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: I mean, they had to scramble, they had to re

755
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: route some twelve commercial flights like it was actually very dangerous,

756
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 2: and so that agency was investigating him. Now he's got

757
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: SpaceX engineers who are there inside. I have a feeling

758
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: that investigation isn't going to go very far. And they're

759
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: making cuts at NASA. Well guess what again, if you

760
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: strip down the capacity of the government, suddenly you need SpaceX.

761
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 4: Even more than they already do.

762
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: And I do think a big part of his rationale

763
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: motivation here is basically like he realized he needed the

764
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: nearly limitless resources of the federal government treasury to pursue

765
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: his goal for humanity of putting us all on Mars,

766
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 2: and that is a lot of what is this and

767
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: he sort of lashed onto this, you know, dark enlightenment

768
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: like Curtis Jarvin. Oh, we need a CEO dictator thing

769
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: because it helps him, it enables him in that goal.

770
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: So it's a convenient ideology for him to get what

771
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: he wants. And so all of these little piddling cuts

772
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: and things that are going on like that is not

773
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: the ballgame. I don't even think you should really consider

774
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: what's happening right now as any attempt at cutting government

775
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,959
Speaker 2: or efficiency. It's about consolidating power on behalf of Elon

776
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 2: Musk and his goals. And one of the ways we

777
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: know that is because listen, they put out their SPREADSHEE

778
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: which claimed fifty five billion, which only actually showed eight

779
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: billion in you know cuts. The Government Accountability Office on

780
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: an annual basis finds some one hundred and fifty billion

781
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: dollars in improper in actual fraud, not just things that

782
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: somebody there didn't like, but in actual fraudulent payments so

783
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 2: we have a government agency that does this stuff. Now,

784
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 2: if you want to beef that up and make more effective, fine,

785
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: go to it. But you also know Ryan that they're

786
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 2: not actually interested in like effective and accountable government, because

787
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 2: one of Trump's very first moves was to fire almost

788
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 2: all of the inspectors general. They're supposed to oversee these

789
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 2: agencies and make sure that they are being run effectively

790
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: and without corruption and graft, and which have been you know,

791
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: have actually done some important investigations for journals like yourself

792
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: into presidents on both the democratic and Republican side, right.

793
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: And cutting a tiny amount of subscriptions to like Thompson,

794
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: Reuter's and Bloomberg like bond markets for regulators, so like

795
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 1: sec CFTC, CFPB, these people are now they don't have

796
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: access to like these little subscription services while they're trying

797
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: to regulate the markets. And for people who are like, okay,

798
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: well AlSi as a vision, I'd like to remind you

799
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: that Musk is not the first person to have these

800
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: generational megal maniacal views of present humanity versus future humanity.

801
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: I think it was Kim jong Ill, Kim Jones's grandfather,

802
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: but it might have been Chairman Mao who said when

803
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: it was confronted with the vast amount of casualties that

804
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: were involved in the creation of the communist project, either

805
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: in China or North Korea, forget which one, he said, basically,

806
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: you know what is is You can find his quote

807
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: out there. Somebody He's like, what is fifty million deaths

808
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: when we are fighting for untold billions of people in

809
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: the future, Like that Mao or Kim Jong Il, whichever

810
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: one was, was arguing, we are fighting for almost infinite

811
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: number of future people who will live in the communist

812
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 1: paradise that we produce through this revolution. So how can

813
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: you tell me that it's a problem that fifty million people,

814
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: innocent people died fifty million against billions, so all the

815
00:41:53,200 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 1: people of the Earth against the infinite expansion of consciousness interplanetary.

816
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: Really those things like if you believe, if that's your ethic,

817
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: we are not the ones that matter.

818
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 2: And this is the type of ideology that has been

819
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: very pervasive in Silicon Valley in recent years that like

820
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: Sam Bankman, Freed was an adherent of this effective altruist ideology,

821
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 2: which argues exactly that now, I don't think Elon necessarily

822
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: thinks of himself exactly as an effective altruist because they

823
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: were concerned specifically about the development of AI destroying humanity,

824
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: which seems to be like actually a reasonable thing to

825
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: be concerned about.

826
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: Also, they're more earthly based.

827
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Elon has a version of that and exactly

828
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: does exactly the calculus that you are describing Ryan, which

829
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 2: you can see quickly how that leads to justifying any

830
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: sort of level of death, cruelty, et cetera in the

831
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: short term. So when you look, for example, at like

832
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: you know, cutting USAID funding, so now you've got kids

833
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: in Africa who are going to die of HIV and AIDS,

834
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, well, that's mull potatoes in the grand

835
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: scheme of you know, generations and generations, tens of thousands

836
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: of years of human civilization. So that's Elon's perfectly willing

837
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 2: to pay that price, let alone any sort of like lawbrying.

838
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: He doesn't care about that. None of these CEOs care

839
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: about law breaking. To them, that's just the cost of

840
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: doing business, and that's what moved fast and break things. Ultimately,

841
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,280
Speaker 2: that's like core to that ethos is basically, break whatever laws,

842
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: do whatever you need to do.

843
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: So it'll work out in the end.

844
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is the type of ideology that can

845
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: that intellectually, like intelligent people can use to justify absolute monstrosities,

846
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: like on a world historic level.

847
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas from US, So if you want to go

848
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: after USAID for being a tool of like American imperialism

849
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: through its soft power. Okay, that's that's great. That's a

850
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 1: great point. Yeah, I'm not sure that's the one they're

851
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: making them.

852
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, when when you're taking it and putting it under

853
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: Marco Rubio State Department, something tells me that's not really

854
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 2: not really the end goal. But in any case, So

855
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 2: that's that's the leaders with Dojan. That's actually a good

856
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 2: segue Ryan into the very latest with regard to Ukraine

857
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: and the new sort of foreign policy orientation of the

858
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: Trump administration.

859
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's start with this wild post on truth

860
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: Social that that he then Trump then posted to Twitter.

861
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: You can tell how much how excited he is about

862
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 1: his different statements whether or not he moves them from

863
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 1: truth Social over to Twitter. He moved this one to Twitter.

864
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: Trump is saying, here, how's your Trump impression, Crystal, But

865
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 1: he's saying not great, think of it? A modestly successful comedian.

866
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: Comedian successful comedian Voladimir Zelenski talk to the United States

867
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: of American and to spending three hundred and fifty billion dollars.

868
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: So that's not accurate. We talk about it closer to

869
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: two hundred billion. Actual numbers from this German think tank

870
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: that studies this, it's closer to like one hundred and

871
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 1: twenty billion or so. And a lot of that is

872
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: what we value or overvalue our weapons stock.

873
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that we just a lot of that money never

874
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: left the Beltway here right here.

875
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: It's a lot of money. Yeah, either way, there's He's right,

876
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: it's it's been a lot of way to go into

877
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: a war that couldn't be won, that never had to start.

878
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: But a war that he without the US and quote Trump,

879
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: why does he put Trump in quotes, will never be

880
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: able to settle. The United States has spent two hundred

881
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: billion dollars more than Europe. Again the according to this

882
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: German think tank, actually the Europeans have spite spent slightly more,

883
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: but sixty percent of our money has been in grants,

884
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: whereas the Europeans has been in very low interest loans.

885
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: Through quibbling in fact checking, but anyway, that's that's that's

886
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 1: On that point, he says, why didn't Sleepy Joe demand equalization?

887
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: So and he goes into okay, So here this is

888
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: the key part. Zelensky refuses to have elections, is very

889
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,480
Speaker 1: low in Ukrainian polls, and the only thing he was

890
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: good at was playing Biden like a fiddle, a dictator

891
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 1: without elections, Zelensky better moved fast or he is not

892
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: going to have a country left. In the meantime, we

893
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: are successfully negotiating an end to the war with Russia,

894
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: something all admit. Only Trump again in quotes, and the

895
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: Trump administration can do. Biden never tried. Europe has failed

896
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: to bring peace, and Zelensky probably wants to keep the

897
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: gravy train going. I love Ukraine, but Zelenski has done

898
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: a terrible job. His country is shattered and millions have

899
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: unnecessarily died. So on his on the things that he

900
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: says that are correct, at least hundreds of thousands, perhaps

901
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: millions have unnecessarily died. This is correct. Zelensky has canceled elections,

902
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: which is kind of preposterous because it's the whole you.

903
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: Know, we're fighting for democracy here, right, Good than that

904
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 2: Biden did not try to achieve Biden did.

905
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,879
Speaker 1: Not try to achieve peace, and the war does need

906
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: to end. All those things are true. The attack on

907
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: Zelensky as this like dictator and the loser or whatever

908
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: has sparked a response from I guess was Lavrov now

909
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: calling him a cornered rat? And is you know edging

910
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's one thing I think Hexath got unfair

911
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: criticism for acknowledging outright that look, a lot of his

912
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: territories not coming back, we need a peace agreement, and

913
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: the Democrats beat him up for that. It's like, no

914
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: nobody believed that you were getting this territory backed then.

915
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, so it's not like it was an important

916
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: piece of leverage because anybody honest knew that that was

917
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: the case.

918
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: To tell the whole world that you think Zelenski is

919
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: this level of a loser, does I think change the

920
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: negotiating calculus in a way that is not beneficial to Ukraine.

921
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair I think that's a fair assessment.

922
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we do have we can put B one

923
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 2: B up on the screen just to reiterate the a

924
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: fact check component of this. So this is according to

925
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: that German research you were talking about, Ryan, how much

926
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: the US has contributed versus how much the Europeans have contributed.

927
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 2: You can see, you know, I mean, there's a lot

928
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: of money, don't get me wrong, but it's not what

929
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: did you say, three hundred and fifty billion?

930
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: He also does you can feel how you want them

931
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: feel about it, but likes just at least know the

932
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: actual let's be.

933
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: Honest right about the amounts. I mean, listen, I want

934
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: this war to end, right. I think it is disgusting

935
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 2: and I moral that the Biden administration blocked the best

936
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 2: chance for peace, which at the best terms for Ukraine,

937
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 2: which came very early in the war when they had

938
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: outperformed and caught Russia unawares, and Russia had been hit

939
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 2: with all these sanctions and they weren't sure how that

940
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: was going to whether they were going to be able

941
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: to really survive that economically or not. Now they've kind

942
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: of adjusted, not to say that it's great, but they

943
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 2: know that they can get through that, and you're in

944
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: this long war of attrition, and so their hand is

945
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: much stronger now than it was at that time. But

946
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: we also have to have some commitment to the truth

947
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: here and to some level of morality as well, like

948
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 2: Russia invaded Ukraine, that he whatever justin NATO provoked it,

949
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. I mean, actually you could put put

950
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 2: it more on the US side in terms of the

951
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: blame versus Zelenski and the Ukraine. Yeah, and so you

952
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 2: know to then say, oh, it's it's Zelenski's fault that

953
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: his own country got invaded and he's the dictator, when yeah,

954
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 2: he should have elections, but you're talking about Vladimir Putin

955
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: on the other side of this equation, Like it's just

956
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: a total inversion of reality and the truth. And I

957
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: think part of it is I mean, I think what

958
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 2: happened in terms of the sequence of events is Trump.

959
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 4: Came to the Trump administration came.

960
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: To Zelenski with this just like brazen colonialist imperialist plan,

961
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 2: like we're going to take half of your stuff forever

962
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 2: and maybe we'll continue to support you, but then again

963
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 2: maybe not. Actually this is just basically in repayment for

964
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 2: what we've already done. And this is B three B

965
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: we can put up on the screen. They were able

966
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: to get the details of this plan, and they were

967
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 2: so onerous. It was actually more onerous than the terms

968
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 2: that were imposed on Germany after World War One is

969
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 2: what they proposed to Zelenski, and Zelensky very gingerly was like, well,

970
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna have to think about that, and

971
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:32,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that's going to totally you work out

972
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: for us on our end, and if you put B

973
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 2: three up on the screen, like, it's not just my

974
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: theory that that's what pissed off Trump and led to

975
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 2: him calling Zelensky a dictator and a loser and all

976
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: this stuff. National Security advisor Mike Waltz says that his

977
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 2: relationship Trump's relationship was Zelensky soured over his refusal to

978
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: sign that Rare Earth's mineral.

979
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 4: Deal the US has proposed. Well, it's quote.

980
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: I think the frustration really stummed just in the last

981
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 2: week from this bizarre pushback and escalation of rhetoric over

982
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 2: presentation of what we see is an absolute opportunity, that's

983
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 2: to have the US invest in Ukrainian infrastructure, to have

984
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: them grow both their minerals, their natural resources, their oil

985
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 2: and gas. We look at the type of aid the

986
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: Europeans are providing. It's often in the form of loans,

987
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: it's being repaid with the interest on these Russian assets.

988
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,879
Speaker 2: We believe the American tax pair deserves to recoape much

989
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:22,759
Speaker 2: of their investment. So we propose this totally extractive, exploitative

990
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,959
Speaker 2: quote unquote deal to the Ukrainians, which again doesn't even

991
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 2: promise that we provide them with future military aid. They

992
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 2: get effectively nothing, no guarantees for the future out of

993
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 2: it except the sense that, okay, well, if we're there,

994
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 2: we're probably going to protect our economic interest in the

995
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: future from a Russian invasion. That's what they would theoretically

996
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: get out of it. Zelensky's like, I don't think we

997
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 2: can go down that path. And now Trump does a

998
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 2: total one to eighty, whereas previously he had actually been

999
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: pretty friendly towards Selensky, and Lensky had gone down to

1000
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 2: mar A Lago and all that sort of stuff. So,

1001
00:51:55,120 --> 00:52:00,240
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's what caused this turn. But in adition,

1002
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 2: you know, Trump has signaled he talks all about William McKinley,

1003
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: which is really the sort of start of brazen American imperialism,

1004
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 2: and he has to obviously talked about it. I'm going

1005
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: to take Greenland, I'm gonna take Canada. I'm going to

1006
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: take Panama, I'm going to take Gaza, I'm going to

1007
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 2: take half of Ukraine. He does not think that there

1008
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 2: should be any real like international rules, guidelines, norms, et cetera,

1009
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 2: surrounding what great powers can do. I mean, he truly

1010
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: believes in this, like might makes right. If you want

1011
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 2: it and it serves your interest, you're just gonna take it.

1012
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 2: And so I don't think he has any philosophical or

1013
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: moral objection to putin seeing Ukraine and being like, well,

1014
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 2: I can take it, and so I'm going to. And

1015
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 2: so I think that's you know, that's part also of

1016
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: what plays into this dynamic that's now playing out with

1017
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 2: him and Zelenski and putin right and so in a you.

1018
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: Know, there's a lot of talk about the unipolar world,

1019
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: where of American agemony evolving into a multipolar world, and

1020
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: the advocates of the multipolar world, of which I would say,

1021
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: actually one don't often talk about the side effects of it,

1022
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:11,280
Speaker 1: which are each each pole in the multipole is basically

1023
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: told by the other multipoles. Okay, that's your area, and

1024
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: so that's where you get this. The Monroe doctrin and

1025
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: the McKinley really expanding on it to saying, Okay, we're

1026
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: not a hegemonic world power, but we're going to compete

1027
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 1: with Spain and Britain and France, and so we're going

1028
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 1: to go take the Philippines, and we're going to try

1029
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: to take Cuba, and we're going to take Haitius hours

1030
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 1: you know, Latin America, like you know, so we're going

1031
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 1: so that's our orbit. And so it's actually completely intellectually

1032
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,839
Speaker 1: and geopolitically consistent to say that you're against this kind

1033
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: of kinetic World War three with Russia and China, but

1034
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: you're but you're also fine with like smaller wars of

1035
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: conquest Canada, Mexican, all the all the like bullying bullying

1036
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: that you see, you know, messing around with Ukraine kind

1037
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: of cuts against that because Ukraine would in a multipolar

1038
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: world would clearly be in the Russian orbit. But his

1039
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: he's going back to his businessman thing. We're like, well,

1040
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: we spent all this money, so therefore, you know, we

1041
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 1: deserve all of this stuff. But it's what triggered that

1042
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: that Trump post was kind of the first overt criticism

1043
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: that Zelensky had offered. So yeah, so he he gets

1044
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: this offer, you have to give us fifty percent of

1045
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 1: your country because it was reported as rare Earth's But

1046
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: as as you noted, it's more than that. It's their reports,

1047
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: it's their.

1048
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 4: Our economy, pretty much everything.

1049
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: Because you know, you're not a five hundred billion out

1050
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 1: of the ground out of there. So then he leaks

1051
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: it to the congressional delegation that went to the Kiev

1052
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: and says, look what they're trying to do, and I'm

1053
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: not I'm not going to sign this. So then it

1054
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: leaks out and then Zelenski calls reporters in and we

1055
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: can put up I think it's B two. Zolenski calls

1056
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: reporters into his palace and tells them, you know, I

1057
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: would like to have more truth with the Trump team,

1058
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: and then says that that the president was living in

1059
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: a quote web of disinformation. So so he's not criticizing

1060
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: Trump directly, he's basically doing the thing where the king is.

1061
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: He's saying the king, the king is being misled by

1062
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: his advisors. Yeah, who are who are lying to him?

1063
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: Trump took it personally, and then you know, goes hard

1064
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: at him with with that, with that true social post

1065
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: that He then moves over to Twitter to make sure

1066
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 1: to make sure nobody nobody missed it. And so we

1067
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: have now we have members of Congress and Republicans being

1068
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 1: asked to reckon with the question is Trump a dictator?

1069
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: And let's put the poll up first before we have that.

1070
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: This is pretty funny and and and something that people

1071
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: should remember. You know, Americans have a play nineteen positive

1072
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: view of Zelenski minus two of Trump, minus sixty three

1073
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: of Putin. So of these three characters, Zolenski is by

1074
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: far and away more popular by the way.

1075
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 2: I mean, people are also pointing out, like Zolenski's favorability

1076
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: rating in Ukraine has fallen, but he still has a

1077
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 2: higher favor I think he's like fifty seven percent favorability

1078
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 2: in Ukraine, so higher than Trump among his own countrymen,

1079
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 2: and even more significantly, you know, above Trump in terms

1080
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,760
Speaker 2: of our population and the way you know that people

1081
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: here feel about him. I mean, it is kind of funny.

1082
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 2: One of the things that was always noteworthy to Soger

1083
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: and I is that, even in spite of all and

1084
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: I do think that Ukraine and Trump positioning himself as

1085
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 2: like quote unquote anti war, I think that helped him

1086
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: a lot in the election, But some of Biden's best

1087
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,240
Speaker 2: ratings always came on his quote unquote handling of Ukraine.

1088
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 2: He was like still underwater, but by less than in

1089
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 2: other various areas, because I think there is a deep,

1090
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: like American instinct of wanting to stand up for the

1091
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: little guy and feeling like I mean, and plus decades

1092
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 2: of Cold War ideology about Russia being the big bad

1093
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 2: guys and you know, the villains and the Rocky movies

1094
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 2: and whatever, that.

1095
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 4: Goes pretty deep.

1096
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 2: And so you know, when you see a pull like that,

1097
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 2: it is a bit of a reality check about the

1098
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 2: kind of political forces that Trump is playing with here

1099
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: as he overtly sides now with Putin and these negotiations.

1100
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, I hope that out of

1101
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: this Trump is able to get some piece deal, Like

1102
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: I worry that the viciousness of it at his own

1103
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: ally is going to undermine his ability to do that.

1104
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: But you know, we'll see, like it's it's still a

1105
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: live it's still a live question. And at least he's trying.

1106
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, Biden didn't even try. Yeah, Biden,

1107
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: in fact, the Biden administration, you know thwarted efforts to

1108
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: try to get to a piece deal and hundreds of

1109
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: thousands of people are dead since then. But one of

1110
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 1: my favorite things in Washington is John Thune getting asked

1111
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: about what Trump is up to on a daily basis.

1112
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: So let's see how John Thune, Senate leader responds to

1113
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: the question of whether Zelenski's a dictator?

1114
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 4: Would you qualify dictator as president?

1115
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 8: Well, I, like I said, the president speaks for himself.

1116
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 8: What I want to see as a is a peaceful result,

1117
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 8: a peaceful outcome. And I think right now there there's

1118
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 8: a negotiation going on, and let's see where that ultimately leads.

1119
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 8: Hopefully it'll get to get to the outcome we all

1120
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 8: want to see.

1121
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: And then you don't have many what quote unquote moderate

1122
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: House Republicans left, and the definition of moderate has has

1123
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: shifted as the actual moderates have kind of been run

1124
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: out of the party or become Democrats. A kind of

1125
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 1: conservative who works with Democrats is Don Bacon in Nebraska

1126
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,919
Speaker 1: usually faces somewhat close election. He was he was asked

1127
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: about this, let's roll uh, let's roll Bacon.

1128
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 6: Here, stick up for what's right, And so I wanted

1129
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 6: to be very strong in my words today because this

1130
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 6: Republican does not agree with what the what the president said.

1131
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 6: Russia's on the bad side here, and we need a

1132
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 6: president that has moral clarity when it comes to this war,

1133
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 6: and right now, don't see. I had hoped the president

1134
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 6: would step up and be better than Joe Biden. I

1135
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 6: felt that Joe Biden was slow and getting weapons there,

1136
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 6: he was using rules of engagement that restricted Ukraine, was

1137
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 6: really feeding the gridlock. Now. I had hoped that this

1138
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 6: president would step up and try to finish this war

1139
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 6: in the right way, not in an unknoble way, And

1140
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,080
Speaker 6: this is what we see today is not a noble

1141
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 6: course of action.

1142
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: I guess the only thing I'd say to that in

1143
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: Trump's defense, somebody's got to somebody at this table's got

1144
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: to do that is that there has there ever been

1145
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 1: an American president that nobly ended a war like it.

1146
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: We don't. We don't end wars with much nobility. And

1147
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: the kind of security establishment is always claiming that they

1148
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: are for ending wars after they've already ended, and that

1149
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: they were for ending the war that you ended, like

1150
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: let's say, Biden in Afghanistan, but not the way you

1151
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,400
Speaker 1: did it right when they stood in the way of

1152
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: ending the war the entire time. So you can, I

1153
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: think agree with the comments like on the surface, but

1154
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: I think they're obscuring a real reluctance to actually engage

1155
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: with a peaceful exit, which is not to defend ignobility right.

1156
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 4: Well.

1157
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 2: The other thing that does just make me a little

1158
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 2: crazy about all of this is, like I think, partly

1159
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: because of the Russia Gate hysteria, in his first term,

1160
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 2: like liberals would be surprised to learn that Trump pursued

1161
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: a very hawkish posy viz a VI Russia and specifically

1162
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: with regards to Ukraine. You know, he armed Ukraine in

1163
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: a way that Obama was unwilling to because Obama feared

1164
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 2: this sort of conflict and provocation of Russia and Trump,

1165
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: in spite of rhetoric that was sort of like Putin

1166
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 2: curious or Putin friendly or whatever, what his administration actually

1167
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: did was quite militaristic and quite hawkish.

1168
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 4: And so that's also.

1169
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 2: Why I find it outrageous for him to then at

1170
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 2: this point, after you helped create the conditions that provoked

1171
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 2: this reaction from Russia and Russia. You know, Putin is

1172
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: his zone, has his own agency, and he did his thing,

1173
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 2: and it was illegal and he shouldn't have done it,

1174
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 2: but you know it was foreseeable. Ultimately this outcome, like

1175
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 2: you were part of creating these conditions, and now you

1176
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 2: want to turn around and blame Zelensky and the Ukrainians

1177
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 2: like it is disgusting, It is outrageous, and people should

1178
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 2: feel like disgusted.

1179
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 4: And outraged by that.

1180
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: And it also you know, it also does make it so,

1181
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 2: as you're porting out ryin that in terms of the

1182
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 2: dynamics of this negotiation.

1183
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 4: It does not. It does not make them simpler.

1184
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 2: It makes them more complex, actually, and it certainly makes

1185
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 2: it so that whatever Ukraine is going to end up

1186
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 2: with at the end of the day is going to

1187
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 2: be worse than what they may have ended up with

1188
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: if Trump had taken a different course.

1189
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 4: Here.

1190
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, everyone waving the Ukrainian flag over the last

1191
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: two years, claiming to be supporting Ukraine, you know, has

1192
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: left them in a worse situation than they would have

1193
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: been otherwise. We don't have time to get into this deeply,

1194
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: but just wanted to finish with the context of all

1195
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: of this. Put up B seven here. This is a

1196
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: New York Times piece from yesterday about the headline trump

1197
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: eyes a bigger, better trade deal with China. You know,

1198
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: Trump really is projecting the idea, the idea strongly that

1199
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: he wants to reorganize the world order and once better

1200
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: relations with Russia, which presumably the idea is to drive

1201
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of a wedge deeper into the relationship

1202
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: between Russia and China and then to cut a big deal,

1203
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:58,840
Speaker 1: almost a G two situation with China to say, look,

1204
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 1: we were willing to like back off the idea that

1205
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 1: we're going to be a hedgehm on and let's see

1206
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: how cooperation works out rather than aggressive you know, or

1207
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: actually like kinetic competition. Yeah, works out. You know, he's,

1208
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: as the Times points out, he's he's bitter. Trump's always better,

1209
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: but he's bitter in particular about he thinks Biden didn't

1210
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: carry out the deal that he cut with China in

1211
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, where China was supposed to you know, buy

1212
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 1: another two hundred billion dollars worth of you know, US goods,

1213
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: bounce out the trade deficit, anythings that he would have

1214
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: if he were still in powers. Now he's going to

1215
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: go back and you know, cut a broad commercial diplomatic

1216
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: deal that involves you know, reducing nuclear weapons and spending

1217
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 1: and military spending, which to me, great if he could

1218
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: pull us off, you know, go for it.

1219
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 2: This could be one of the areas where Elon is

1220
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: a CEO dictator king has actually beneficial since he has

1221
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: so many business.

1222
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 4: Interests in China.

1223
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: It's one way of putting it.

1224
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 2: You know, it may actually be that that's part of

1225
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 2: what has shifted Trump in this direction, because you know,

1226
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 2: he had a much more well and it's still I

1227
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 2: think it's still very much up in the air because

1228
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: there are different ways you can do multipolarity, right. One is,

1229
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: and Ben Norton's been writing some about this. You know,

1230
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: the Chinese have sort of laid out their principles of

1231
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 2: they want equal treatment for all countries, respect for international multilateralism.

1232
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 2: They want openness and mutual benefits. So not this idea

1233
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 2: of like a new Cold War and we're in competition

1234
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 2: with you, right, So not a return to those you

1235
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 2: know Soviet versus US dynamics which led to untold number

1236
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: of you know, proxy wars. It was not like we

1237
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 2: avoided the giant conflict with them, you know, the big

1238
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 2: hot war that ends the world, but it was not

1239
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,800
Speaker 2: like it was a conflict free deaths.

1240
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly.

1241
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 2: So you know, there's that way of doing multipolarity, which

1242
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 2: many people within the Trump ad ministry, including Mark or Rubio,

1243
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 2: like he is a China hawk. He has a sort

1244
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,680
Speaker 2: of like you know, hawkish, historically aggressive posture towards China.

1245
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 2: Sees it as a competition. Has talked about the acquisition

1246
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 2: of Greenland in this sort of like Cold War way

1247
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 2: of this is a way to check China, and if

1248
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 2: we don't take it, then China is going to take it.

1249
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 2: And we need to make sure that we can own

1250
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 2: the Arctic as the ice melts and these shipping lanes

1251
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 2: open up as a result of the climate crisis. So

1252
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,640
Speaker 2: that's one way, and the other way would be to

1253
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 2: have these sort of you know, more mutually beneficial, cooperative

1254
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: relationships where you're not just directly competing with each other,

1255
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, around the world and all these proxy fights

1256
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 2: and building up your military aggressively, et cetera, et cetera.

1257
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 2: So I think it's still very undetermined which direction Trump

1258
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 2: is going to decide to take.

1259
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 4: I don't know that he really knows either.

1260
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if somebody's going to shake it up like that.

1261
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: It would have to be Trump because the entire Washington blob,

1262
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: the national security establishment, has spent decades invested in American agemony.

1263
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: That's where their careers are, it's where their lives, it's

1264
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: where their professional lives are based. So they're gonna, you know,

1265
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,320
Speaker 1: they're gonna, they're gonna go down with with the ship.

1266
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: I think that I think the key takeaway to me

1267
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: from Trump's tweet about Zelenski. You know, Trump is at

1268
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: which everybody says about him, whoever talks to him last,

1269
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, he's very he's he's very easy to be influenced. Yeah,

1270
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: he is clearly surrounded right now by people who hate Zelenski, Yeah,

1271
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 1: and have a hostility towards the whole Ukrainian project. Like

1272
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: that's what's reflected in that tweet, which.

1273
01:06:31,680 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 4: It's very like internet brained, yeah, take honestly.

1274
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. And so that so that that that is a

1275
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: window into who's influencing him right now, which is was

1276
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: suggestive of where this is heading.