1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: All Zone media. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, it's me James, and before we listen to 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 2: this episode today, I just did want to make you 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: aware that I conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 2: mostly Spanish, and then transcribed and translated them. So what 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: you're hearing is a translated interview that's being edited for 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: brevity and content. I hope you enjoy the episode. Every 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: day for the past two years, the population of Bajo 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: Chiquito has more than tripled. At six in the morning, 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: piraguas come from other Embera villages along the river, dozens 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: of them, all filled with orange life jackets. Migrants form 12 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 2: a line so long that it stretches from the beach 13 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: north of town all the way through the village and 14 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: at the other side, and in groups of fifteen, they 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 2: hand over their twenty five dollars each and get onto 16 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: the piraguas. Each one puts on their bright orange life jacket, 17 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: sits with their legs around the person in front, and 18 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: they take off for the first official migrant receipt center 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: in last blancats As. The last boat leaves. Those who 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: can't afford the trip begin a walk, which could take 21 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 2: eight hours. I couldn't walk with them. But I hand 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 2: to de group my water filter in one of those 23 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 2: over bright energy bars that are basically trail mix in 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: a rectangular format, and wish them the best of luck 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 2: as they force their tired legs and sore feet to 26 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: walk again. The population of Barjuqito dropped back to five 27 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: hundred or so indigenous people who live here, and the 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: usual background noise of chattering dozens of languages gave way 29 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 2: to crowing chickens and barking dogs. By the next morning, 30 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: as migrants came walking in from the south, it would 31 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 2: grow again to fifteen hundred. For the last ten years 32 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: or so, fewer than two thousand people crossed in a year, 33 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: but numbers have been steadily increasing, and now the residents 34 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: of Bajo Juquito see the numbers that they saw in 35 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 2: a year. In a single weekend, while you listen to 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: this series, thousands of people will take their lives into 37 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: their hands as they leap into mudcolored rivers, ascend towering 38 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: mountains in the pouring rain, and desperately fight the urge 39 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 2: to drink from a river polluted with human waste, decaying corpses. 40 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: All of those who survive will walk out of that 41 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: jungle up the river bank along a muddy path and 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: into Bajo Jugito. Well, they'll buy themselves a cold drink 43 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: and enjoyed the hospitality of the locals for a night 44 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 2: before leaving to head north. At first, the locals told 45 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: me didn't charge people at all. They were shocked to 46 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: see the migrants and wanted to help them, But as 47 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: numbers grew, they had to start asking for money as 48 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: they couldn't afford to feed and house all the migrants arriving. 49 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: Over time, they said, the costs rose, and now a 50 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 2: bed costs about five dollars for a night, and a 51 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 2: meal is about the same. As they pointed out, that's 52 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: less than half what I paid a meta tea the 53 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: nearest town a Metaitia doesn't have to haul its supplies 54 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 2: up the river in a canoe using seven dollars per 55 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: gallon fuel. In Bajo Juguito, I sat down with a 56 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: order man whose front room I just had luncheon. I 57 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: wanted to get a sense of the change he'd seen 58 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: over his lifetime in his community and how he felt 59 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: about it. 60 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 3: We saw how they arrived injured, sick with vomiting diarrhea. 61 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: Then there was no health care here. What did we do? 62 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 3: We had to speak for the government. It wasn't easy. 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 3: It was not easy. We told them that we needed 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: a doctor. And finally, now, thank god, we have doctors here. 65 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: The community, which has long been socially and economically marginalized 66 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: and acutely underprovided with government services, had built a house 67 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: themselves for the doctors, another house for migration officials. It 68 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 2: was the only way to help migrants access services, which 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: in turn allowed them to move on with their journeys quicker, 70 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: he said. However, like almost every other our person I 71 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: spoke with, he felt that the government should be doing 72 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: more here. Even after all these years serving as the 73 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: first Panamanian village, many thousands of people enter every year. 74 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: They still don't have electricity or a road that's successible 75 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: year round, both of which would make their lives and 76 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: the transit of the migrants much safer. But that doesn't 77 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: mean the state's totally absent here. It used to be 78 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: possible for migrants to take a paragua from come Galina 79 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: a little further south up river and avoid some of 80 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: the most dangerous river crossings. Bonio told me that authorities 81 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: in the comarca, which is like a state in the 82 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: USA have prohibited this. I wanted to see more of 83 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 2: what was going on further south and what made it 84 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: so dangerous, but I wasn't permitted to join a center 85 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: front patrol going out that way despite my request. I 86 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: asked Bonnio what made things more dangerous than that part 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: of the river. First, he explained that the wide and 88 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 2: low lying beaches often seemed like good points for migrants 89 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: to sleep, but that any rain in the mountains above 90 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: would result in the rapid increase of the water level, 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: turning those beaches into rapids in minutes, he told me, 92 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: looking down at the table. But not so long ago, 93 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 2: a storm had washed away sleeping migrants, drowning them in 94 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: their sleep and washing their remains towards his village. But 95 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 2: terrible as it is, that isn't the only risk. 96 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: What they said, you know very well that there's not 97 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: a single country that does not have criminals. In every country, 98 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 3: there are criminals. Yeah, So what happens at that point 99 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 3: in the river, as I was saying, at that point, 100 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: and clearly it is not everyone, but there are some 101 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 3: certain young men who engage in robbery and even rape. 102 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: So that's why in this community in this village, in 103 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 3: coordination with the community and the leaders, we well. The 104 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 3: leader spoke to the national government to ask for a 105 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: chance to transport people from came Gaina so that nothing 106 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: would happen to them. The government talked and talked, and 107 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 3: for a while it was possible, and it was safe, 108 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 3: and nobody died and nobody robbed. It was all going well. 109 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 3: But what happened. We have a leader at Kasik. I 110 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 3: don't know if you've heard about it, but the regional 111 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: leader he put a barrier, he stopped it. Look to 112 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: be honest, these people with their degrees, this classic person, 113 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: they're not humanitarians. 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: Despite the struggles and the relative absence of the government overall, 115 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: he felt that the migration had been a positive for 116 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: his community. He'd learned a lot from the migrants, he said, 117 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: and enjoyed learning about their cuisines. In particular. There's a 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: common narrative in media that mentions Barjuquito that this village 119 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 2: has been somehow stripped of its culture or ruined by migration, 120 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: But the locals don't seem to agree with this. I 121 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: also speke to the villagies leader. She's the first woman 122 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 2: in the whole commarker to hold such a position. 123 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: You're I'm chief of the community police and leader of 124 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: the community. 125 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: She explained to me that barju Guito was just one 126 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 2: of several communities along the river, each with its own leader. 127 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: Those leaders meet in the council an answer to a 128 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: casike of the. 129 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 4: Mara Ganti di Yatala Invia. 130 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: She also explained that as the first woman in the position, 131 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 2: she'd made sure to advance the cause of women in 132 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: her community. 133 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Since I've had my administration, which has been seven months 134 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: as noca or leader, I have put some women to work. 135 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: They're waiting for the migrants. 136 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: There After that, I asked her to explain to listeners 137 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: what exactly a migrant encounters when they first set foot 138 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: in their village and the various steps that they might 139 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: go through before leaving the next morning. 140 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 4: Is not verifica. 141 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: There is a check in at first, verification of whether 142 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: they have a crime in their country. From there they 143 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: got immigration. The documents are checked and then they are 144 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,119 Speaker 1: free to choose where they're going to wait and rest 145 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: for the next part of their journey. On behalf of UNICEF, 146 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: we have free toilets from the community. We also have 147 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: a free place where they can camp or rest. That's 148 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: theirs now. If they want better things, better rest, they 149 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: can find accommodation available in almost every house here. The 150 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: next day we prepare everything at together with the center 151 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: front security. We go to the beach there and at 152 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: the beach we also coordinate with a coordinator from each village. 153 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: I also want to make it clear as well that 154 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: the boat driver must have their idea and be of 155 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: legal age. 156 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: From there, the migrants pay twenty five dollars ahead and 157 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: take the five hour boat trip north to Lahas Blancas, 158 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 2: which is the UN and government run camp and the 159 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: first official migrant welcome center outside the DADDI enn Having 160 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: boat drivers who are of age is important. Migrants who 161 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: can't swim trust their lives to these boat drivers in 162 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: high water. Once they're at Last Blancers, they're close to 163 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: the Pan American Highway and the beginning of the rest 164 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: of their journey north. They don't have to walk any 165 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: further unless they run out of money for buses. I 166 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: asked what happened when someone couldn't afford the ride to 167 00:08:59,160 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: Last Blancas. 168 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: Yes, me, what does the community do? The community takes 169 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: responsibility presending them, not the state, the state migration Cenafron. 170 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: They don't pay for the fuel or the transport of 171 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: these people. 172 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: Specifically, she told me the community sends three free boats today. 173 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: Most of these are filled of women and children, and 174 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: in my time there and seeing that these people paid 175 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: whatever they could those leftover, usually men would have to 176 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: make the walk on their blistered feet and tired legs 177 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,560 Speaker 2: and risk further sickness, robbery, and heat exhaustion. I also 178 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 2: wanted to ask a leader about the problems with theft 179 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,719 Speaker 2: and sexual assault that the migrants encountered on their walk 180 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: into Bajo Jiguito, and she was pretty forthright this was 181 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: an issue for the state, not for her community to fix. 182 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: But then where is Senafron. Aren't Centafrat supposed to be 183 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: on all the banks of the river, Yes, so where 184 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: are those thefts? 185 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: Despite being able to prevent the Empire from using their 186 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: boats on their river to transport migrants them at any 187 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: level above the village isn't really present in Bajigito cent 188 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: A Front Panamas combined Border patrol and military received migrants 189 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: and register them there, but all the services provided to 190 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: the migrants come either from the Emberrad or from non 191 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 2: governmental organizations. This pattern of the state failing to provide 192 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: basic services, when Neil told me, is one that goes 193 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: back a long time before the migrants began arriving here. 194 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: So now, before the migrants began arriving here, we had 195 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 3: a town, a town that the government is supposed to 196 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: give what it has to give us as Panamanians, but 197 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 3: it doesn't. It was a town without anything. All we 198 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: did was sell our products and sell stuff here for us. 199 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: We grow rice, corn plantains, everything. Well, it was a lot, 200 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: but products that we grow are not enough to get by. 201 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: Even today in late twenty twenty four. The village doesn't 202 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 2: have mained electricity, nor does it have a connection to 203 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: telephone networks or a road that it can take year 204 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 2: round to connect it to the rest of the country. 205 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: And a few clean water taps in the town come 206 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 2: from UNICEF, not Panama City. Doctors here come from European NGOs, 207 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: and even the policing of the community is largely done 208 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: by the community by a group called the Zara. And 209 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: never to better understand that our communities, both with and 210 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: without migrants, I wanted to visit another Embero village and 211 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: after the break. 212 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 3: We'll hear about that. 213 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: All right. 214 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 4: So I'm just in my hammock now. Kind of the 215 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 4: end of the day. We were singing in another end 216 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 4: our village today just probably I mean better, say kilometer 217 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 4: or two kilometers away, you know. Probably it didn't walk, 218 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 4: but it was pretty fast in the Perragua. Just it's 219 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 4: a little more peaceful here. And a boat driver passed 220 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 4: us to stay at his house, so we said we would. 221 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 4: You can probably hear like, I don't know how much 222 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 4: of this is getting picked up. It's a nice little village, 223 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 4: you know, the fucking way till the dogs have stopped. 224 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 4: I guess. 225 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: When I wasn't in Bajo, I took a boat every 226 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: evening to Maraganti. Maraganti is only a couple of kilometers 227 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 2: away on a different branch of the river, but the 228 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 2: walk might dig hours through the thick jungle. Perraguero had 229 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: invited us to stay with his family and to see 230 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: another but our village. I'm always down to sleep outside, 231 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: so I gladly accepted his invitation and slung my hammock 232 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 2: across his front porch. After a long discussion on whether 233 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: the dynamic cordage I was using would actually hold my weight, 234 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: and on my part, I probably ill advised free solo 235 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: onto the roof of his house to find a good 236 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 2: anchor point for my hammock. My time in Madragante, I 237 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: found myself growing fonder and fond of his little community. 238 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: Everyone's doors were open, and the village's children enjoyed unsupervised 239 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: playtime everywhere. There was never not a pickup game going 240 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: on at the concrete football and basketball court, and despite 241 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: the fact that they were on average several feet short 242 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: than me and playing on concrete without shoes, local kids 243 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 2: humiliated me at a wide variety of sports with no 244 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 2: electricity of them generators, one Wi Fi connection in the 245 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 2: whole village as far as I can tell, and a 246 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: few hours to myself. In the evening, I happily settled 247 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: into a routine of watching in a river along with 248 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: everyone else in the hour before sunset, walking around town, 249 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: chatting with the inhabitants who seemed surprised but happy to 250 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 2: see a gangly British man nambling around their neighborhood and 251 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 2: betting their dogs. Once it got dark, I'd spend my 252 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: evening sitting in my hammock as as grandchildren of our 253 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,079 Speaker 2: host asked me how to say various things in English. 254 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 2: I played with the little toys I always bring along 255 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: in case I were running to children on my work trips. 256 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 2: Being in Maragantine made me think a lot about my 257 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 2: own life and the US in general. I certainly have 258 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 2: a lot more possessions here, but my neighbors don't let 259 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: their kids run around in the streets, and cars would 260 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 2: hit them if they did. People in my community, if 261 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: the next door app is anything to go by, spendcing 262 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: meally countless hours bitching about the unhoused and other people's children. 263 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 2: But here everyone had a roof over their heads, and 264 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: other people's children ran in and out my host's kitchen 265 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: without anyone batting an eyelid. Aside from laughing at my 266 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: paleness when I was washing in the river, nobody here 267 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: seemed that concerned that I was different. They let me 268 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: hold their babies while they cooked. They didn't overcharge me 269 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: for the bottles of water of snacks that I bought 270 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: from their front room convenience stores. What seemed that bothered 271 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: about sharing their meals and their homes with me? At night, 272 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: we sat on tiny plastic chairs and talked about our 273 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 2: shared interest in woodwork and what they wanted for their children. 274 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: We talked about their boats and the river, and about 275 00:14:58,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: how terrible things must be for the migrants to re 276 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: their lives making the journey across these mountains that the 277 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: Embra and their Gunna neighbors call home. Ever since I 278 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: left their village, I've been thinking a lot about the 279 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 2: part of The Dawn of Everything in which Graver and 280 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: Wengrove detail how many indigenous people were adopted into colonial 281 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 2: society but chose to return to their communities, how they 282 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 2: settlers in indigenous communities often chose to remain among the 283 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: indigenous communities. I don't wish to romanticize the very real 284 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: struggles yember have with their economic marginalization and lack of 285 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: access to basic services compared to other Panamanians. But I 286 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: just want to reflect on the fact that there was 287 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: something really special about the little river community, where dogs 288 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 2: and chickens and ducks woke me up in the morning, 289 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 2: little children welcomed me back every evening. They told me 290 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: what they did at school, or tossed a little ball 291 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: back and forth, and seemed entirely comfortable chatting to an 292 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: adult from across the world. The people Abou al Jiguito 293 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: have shown that same hospitality to migrants and indeed to me. 294 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: And so I wanted to ask the village leader how 295 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 2: migration had changed her community everyone else I spoke to. 296 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: She insisted that they had held on to important parts 297 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: of their culture, which he illustrated by giving me a 298 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: history lesson. 299 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: The town of Bajo Chiquito was founded in nineteen sixty five. 300 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: At first there were three families, the Vaparizo, the Risales, 301 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: the Chagos. They came here for education reasons. Before everyone 302 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: lived on their own. The education came and that is 303 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: why we grew this town. 304 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: It was the education, she said, that had changed town, 305 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: not the migrants. They have night school now for adults 306 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: and a school for all the children with seven teachers. 307 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: The children speak Embaba and Spanish and have a chance 308 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: to get more education in Meta Ti or even in 309 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: Panama City. 310 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 4: See. 311 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: Yes, it's due to education, not because the migrants travel 312 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: through here. Let this be clear. That is not because 313 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: the migrants came here. 314 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 2: Cly though the perception of changing their community is a concern. 315 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: Told me they're a local woman marriages what she called 316 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: a Latino man. They can't live together in the village, 317 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: and she wanted to make sure I knew that the 318 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 2: children learn in Emberra as well as Spanish. They also 319 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 2: still knew dances and ceremonies, Bono told me. But some 320 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: of the changes, she said were positive, including one in 321 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 2: gender relationship. 322 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: That's an ongoing struggle. I'll say that to show that 323 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: we women have the same capacity for thought creativity as men. 324 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: We are fighting every day, and as you will see, 325 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: it's not easy. 326 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 2: One thing that surprised me was that the Emberra would 327 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: always remind me that they themselves had been migrants. They 328 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 2: migrated to Panama City sometimes, they said, and they have 329 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 2: a little choice if they want post secondary education or 330 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 2: higher level medical attention. Some of their kids even make 331 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: the journey to the USA to study. What kind of 332 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 2: hypocrites would they be, they said, if they look down 333 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: on people making the same journey. 334 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that before the immigrants arrived here, 335 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 3: within this community, we lived in the same world. I mean, 336 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 3: we came from the countryside, We worked in agriculture, and 337 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 3: we still continue working in the agriculture stuff, fishing, hunting, 338 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 3: and so on. We liked it a lot. Now after 339 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: the immigrants started to come. We are still the same 340 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 3: and it doesn't affect us having them within our community 341 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 3: because they are their people, they're humans. The journey that 342 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 3: the immigrants make is out of need, it is in need, 343 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 3: so really we too, for example, if we were to 344 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 3: deal with problems like them, Since we are just like them, 345 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 3: we also have the right to emigrate as well. 346 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 2: This is not the first influx of migration into emberor 347 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,959 Speaker 2: Guna land. In fifteen oh one, a wave of undocumented 348 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: immigration from Spain in the form of settler colonias like 349 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: Francisco Balboa arrived in the Guna and Emberor territories. Ever 350 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: since his Europeans first saw for themselves what the ember 351 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 2: already knew. That this area was part of the narrow 352 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: strip of land between two Great Oceans. People from around 353 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 2: the world have been coming to what is now Panama 354 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 2: as part of their journeys from north to south or 355 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 2: east to west. The thin strip of land that joins 356 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 2: the two American continents has been at the crossroads of 357 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: the world for half a millennium. Archaeological digs in a 358 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 2: region show that there were once roads, and that gold 359 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: and jade came here from afar. This ritinalization is one 360 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 2: that Vasco Nunies de Balboa first encountered, and it was 361 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 2: they who first told him that their land lay between 362 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 2: two oceans. It was somewhere just to the south of 363 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 2: where I was staying. That exactly five hundred eleven years 364 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 2: ago to the day, Barboa became the first European to 365 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 2: set eyes upon the Pacific. Since Barbara, many other colonizers 366 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 2: have come to Dabien to pit their notions of superiority 367 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: against the might of the rainforest. The Kingdom of Scotland 368 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 2: sent to group of settlers here in a seventeenth century 369 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 2: mounted the side. This isn't a place with any similarity 370 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 2: to Scotland, and it's easy enough to see why the 371 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: plan failed, killed three out of four colonists and essentially 372 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 2: bankrupted an entire nation in two years, forcing it into 373 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: a colonial relationship of its own with its neighbor to 374 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: the south. After the Scot's left, having failed to create 375 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: what they'd hoped would be a quote Scottish Amsterdam of 376 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 2: the Indies, and a Spanish found a flatter and easier 377 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 2: connection between the Pacific and Caribbean, the Dadian region returned 378 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: to its indigenous people whose hem it remains, but over 379 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: the course of several hundred years, many empires have come 380 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 2: to the Dadi End to die. The French tried to 381 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: build a sea level colloud not so far from here, 382 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 2: the canal without locks, but they ultimately failed. The US 383 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: tried in the eighteen fifties and eighteen seventies to forge 384 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: a route to build a canal to get east coast 385 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: Banks Acces to west coast Gold, before eventually finding an 386 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: easier route further north. A century later, the US and 387 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: Panama openly discussed dropping nuclear bombs on the jungle to 388 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 2: make it passable and to allow the construction of a road. 389 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 2: The US offered to shoulder two thirds of the cost 390 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 2: of building such a road, and hoped to have the 391 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 2: Pan American Highway completed in time for its nineteen seventy 392 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 2: six by centennial. The GAP's hostility in the growing environmental movement, 393 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 2: as well as a desire to protect US livestock from 394 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 2: a foot of mouth disease, it's endemic in South America. 395 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 2: One the day, the gap remained a gap, largely without 396 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 2: the influence of the state. In the nineteen seventies, a 397 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 2: British Army Expedition traversed to dadi Enn in two range rovers, 398 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: assisted by horses, parachute drop resupplies and a team of engineers. 399 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: They crossed the jungle in ninety six days. They had 400 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: to make their own bugnets for their horses out of 401 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: the parachute, so we used to drop corn cobs to 402 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 2: the animals and rice for the humans. Expedition leader and 403 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 2: seasoned explorer, as well as possibly the most British Man 404 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: in history, Lieutenant Colonel John Blashford Snell, wrote, without doubt 405 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: it was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, 406 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: calling the daddy Enne a god forsaken place. The dadi 407 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: Enne is one of the wettest places on the planet. 408 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 2: A particularly cruel twist for that would be colonizers from Scotland. 409 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: In the months before I came here, I spent hours 410 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 2: trying to work out how to water prove my podcast equipment, 411 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: and most of what you're hearing is recorded on a 412 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 2: voice recorder that I sealed up with gasket maker, shoved 413 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: inside a condom, inside a dry bag inside a pelican case. 414 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 2: This rain causes flash flooding, the kind which sweeps whole 415 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: villages away. The rivers in the gap on bridge, largely 416 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 2: because they simply wash away bridges after a storm. On 417 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: our journey to Barjigito, I saw the remains of bridges 418 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: that had dared to try. That's why my hosts built 419 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: their houses on stilts, and it's on those stilts that 420 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 2: I slung my hammock in Maraganti. Ever since the failed Dallienski, 421 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 2: the Gap has been constructed in the Western imagination as 422 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 2: the deepest and darkest jungle. The Gap today is home 423 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: to every type of malaria and numerous others diseases. There 424 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 2: are deadly vipers, deadly spiders, big cats, and as if 425 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 2: the natural threats were not enough, the US dropped bombs 426 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: here in the Cold War to test this destructive might 427 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 2: against one of the few areas of the planet that 428 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: hadn't been made amenable to capitalism. Many of them remain 429 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 2: unexploded in the mountains. Certainly, the physical geography of the 430 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 2: Dalli imposed a challenge, but I would argue that the 431 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 2: imaginative geography of the gap which is a greater impediment 432 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: to travelers. In Spanish they call it the up on 433 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 2: the Stopper. Local legend has it that the Spanish conquistador, 434 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: one of the first to take his last breaths in 435 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 2: the waters of dalli Enn's rivers carved a phrase into 436 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: the rock which is endured long after he expired. When 437 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 2: you go to the dadi Ennes and trust yourself to Mary, 438 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: for in her hands of the entrance and in God 439 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 2: see exit. It doesn't sound that different to the things 440 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 2: I heard from migrants and in the modern day they'll 441 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 2: tell you about the horrific tiktoks they saw before they 442 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 2: entered the gap, and the decaying remains fellow travelers they 443 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 2: saw us they passed through. Media reports in a Gap 444 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 2: consistently referred to it as a nomad's land, but of 445 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: course it's very much someone's land, the land of the 446 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 2: indigenous people who have been here long before countries, borders 447 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 2: or reporters. While it may have remained hostiles to capitalism 448 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: in the state, and it can be deadly for unexperienced travelers, 449 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,959 Speaker 2: it's supported life for thousands of years. And a wait 450 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: about Houjigito, I was reminded of just how comfortable my 451 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,360 Speaker 2: hosts were in a place where I felt so out 452 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 2: of place. 453 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 4: So as we were coming, we are caught in a 454 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 4: huge rain storm just absolutely bucketing it down suddenly and 455 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 4: pulled in to a little sort of or just a 456 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 4: flat area of mighterily. I helped out at the boat, 457 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 4: and next thing I know, our boat guys ran into jungle, 458 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 4: chopped some huge palm leaves down and brought them back 459 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 4: to me to cover me in my bag. 460 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 2: Well, the Emberrad might have preserved their comfort and culture. 461 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 2: It's undeniable that Migrace should have made a huge economic impact. 462 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: Nine hundred and fifty nine migrants left Bajo Jiguito on 463 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,720 Speaker 2: one of the days I was able to get numbers 464 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 2: from Senafront. Each of them paid twenty five dollars for Piagua, 465 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: about ten bucks for food and lodging and maybe Wi Fi, 466 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: and pressed a few bucks more for clean clothes or 467 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: a pair of off bran crocs. And at their feet 468 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: heel from three days have been constantly wet and blistered. 469 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: Srvdive estimate that's a little more than thirty three thousand 470 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: per day raughly the GDP per capital of Panama. That's 471 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 2: a lot of money down here, especially for community which 472 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 2: has been alienated and exploited for solo. Using this money, 473 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 2: people have been closed the bottom floors of their homes 474 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: to provide more space to house migrants. All around the village, 475 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 2: they're building better homes. Some of them have satellite internet 476 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 2: now or Starlink or bigger and more reliable generators. This 477 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 2: money has been spread around the amberaur communities in the area, 478 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 2: and every morning each of them sends peraguas to transport 479 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: the migrants. Ares almost sixty you needed every day. Rolling 480 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 2: out of Maragante at five in the morning, as almost 481 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: the entire adult male population of the village joined us 482 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 2: in a huge flatilla of two stroke smoke and dugout 483 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: canoes and the morning mists still sat in the river. 484 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 2: Was an incredible experience, and this is doubtless an industry 485 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: for the whole area. Now. If Molino Majorcas ever successfully 486 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 2: stops migration here, it will be a massive economic detriment 487 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: to people already marginalized for centuries. But despite the economic benefits, 488 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: the people of Maragante didn't seem to want to become 489 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 2: like bah Juquito. On our last day there, as we 490 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: set off back towards the dirt road to the borders here, 491 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 2: we saw that they were building little cabins outside of town. These, 492 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 2: they said were for the migrants. They wanted the migrants 493 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: to be safe and their community to stay the same. 494 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: They might not be able to sell meals to the 495 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 2: migrants this way, or charge them for Wi Fi or 496 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 2: phone charging, but they will be able to live a 497 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: little more peacefully. Yamber, I have gone out of their 498 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 2: way to ensure migrant safety. They're the ones who mandate 499 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 2: life jackets and the ones who build a house for doctors. 500 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 2: They're the ones who send free boats for women and children. 501 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: Of course they have an economic incentive to do this, 502 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 2: But in nearly a week living with them, I didn't 503 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 2: hear them bad mouth for migrants, and nor did I 504 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 2: hear the migrants complain about the way they were treated 505 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: in the village of bahj Jaquito. But before they get 506 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 2: to the village of Bajuquito, migrants aren't safe, and if 507 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 2: you ask them, they'll tell you it's indigenous people who 508 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 2: are rubbing and threatening them. Deeper into the jungle, undoubtedly, robbery, 509 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: sexual assault and murderer not uncommon in the Daddy and Gap. 510 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: You can hear anecdotes of these on daily basis in Bahjiquito, 511 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 2: and some of the stories I heard and things I 512 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 2: saw are among the most horrific experiences I've had in 513 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 2: years of reporting on pretty terrible things. I haven't included 514 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 2: a great many of them here because I think it's 515 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 2: hard for people to meaningfully consent in those kinds of circumstances. 516 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: But yesterday you heard about the human remains that almost 517 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 2: everyone featured in this series had to walk past. This 518 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: is a problem that's getting worse, not better. In just 519 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 2: one week in February, medisanten Fontierre, the NGO that Americans 520 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 2: called Doctors Without Borders, treated one hundred and thirteen people, 521 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 2: including nine children, after they were sexually assaulted by criminal 522 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 2: groups in the Darienne. This number is close to one 523 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty people treated during the whole of January. 524 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 2: These figures are double the monthly average treated in twenty 525 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: twenty three, when six hundred and seventy six people were 526 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 2: treated for the whole year. As you heard before, this 527 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: is the problem that people in the community sometimes acknowledge, 528 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 2: and as a village leader mentioned, it's one that could 529 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: be solved as the state would live up to its 530 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: obligation to protect migrants within its borders. The leader also 531 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 2: shares me that the community has its own punishment mechanisms. 532 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: The place of punishment is the stocks. Three days ago 533 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: someone behaved very badly and we had to put them 534 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: in the stocks. The man who mistreats women, we also 535 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: put in the stocks. The woman who gossips, we also 536 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: put her in the stocks. 537 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 2: What she's talking about here is stocks in the old 538 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 2: fashioned sense, not in the watery bed sense. We actually 539 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 2: saw someone chatting them one day with their ankles locked 540 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 2: in place. We didn't ask what they did to how 541 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: long they were there, as it seems difficult again to 542 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 2: consent to an interview when you're literally pinned in place. 543 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 2: But this kind of punishment comes from the community, not 544 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: the state. Aside from these punishments, the community hasn't done 545 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: much to stop things happening in the jungle, and I'm 546 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: not sure if it's really able to. They're Panamanian, they 547 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,959 Speaker 2: say in the state's responsible for the safety of migrants 548 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: women's borders, and while it does send sender front patrols 549 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: into jungle, the state doesn't appear to be doing much 550 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: protect migrants sexual assault, robbery, or murder. Earlier this year, 551 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 2: the state did take decisive action to reject made same 552 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: sans Fontierreen not reviewing their permission to work in the Darienne. 553 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: This is quite a challenging permission to obtain, even as 554 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 2: a solo journalist. It took months for me to get mine, 555 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 2: forcing me to rebook my flight several times. I heard 556 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 2: various explanations for why MSF were not allowed to keep working. 557 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 2: I couldn't get an official response, but it's probably worth 558 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: noting that they published a report headlined lack of action 559 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 2: she's sharp rise in sexual violence on people transiting the 560 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: Darien Gap on the twenty ninth of February, and they 561 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 2: refused permission to remain in the region in the first 562 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: week of March. MSF was allowed to return in October 563 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: of this year and wouldn't comment further than the following statement, 564 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 2: which they built me in mid October. In October of 565 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, MSF resumed medical and humanitarian activities at 566 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 2: Lahas Blanca's migration reception Center, located at the edge of 567 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 2: the Dai In Jungle, after Panamanian authorities approved a three 568 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: month medical intervention. MSF welcomes its decision and advocates to 569 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 2: collaborate closely with Panama's Ministry of Health to provide comprehensive 570 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: medical care to migrants crossing this route as well as 571 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: to the local population of the area. Right now, UNICEF, 572 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: MAD Saint Dumont, Corporacion Espanola and the Red Cross are 573 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 2: helping migrants in babu Jiquito. UNICEF and salt showers and toilets. 574 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 2: Global Brigades in UNICEF provided tapped with clean drinking water, 575 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: and the medical endeos provide healthcare, which is fighting saving 576 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: lives and providing survivors of sexual assault with medical care 577 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 2: in a seventy two hour window where it can be 578 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,479 Speaker 2: most beneficial. It's worth noting that most migrants who are 579 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted won't stay depressed charges. I know of one 580 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 2: case of sexual assault of a child while I was there, 581 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: but the family wanted to continue their journey and so 582 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: the charges won't be pressed. This makes it very hard 583 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 2: to ascertain how many cases a sexual assault there are 584 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: in a daddy and every year, aside from through medical 585 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 2: reports from NGOs, and those only include the people who 586 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: make it to bah Jiquito Alahas Blancas. The numbers are 587 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: clearly high, and it's a fear that many migrants articulated 588 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: to me. In the jungle, they're at their most vulnerable, 589 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: they said. Most people robbed, they tell me help by 590 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: armed attackers carrying guns and machetes. But once a migrants 591 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: set foot and they're momentarily safe from rory and a 592 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 2: soul for the first time in days, they can sleep 593 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: without worry being attacked or washed away. And the rest 594 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: of their journeys north they'll face set threat again, but 595 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: that's not what's on their mind. When they enter town. 596 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 2: All they want is a cold drink and a warm 597 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 2: deal and a chance to rest their aching feet. It's 598 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 2: a chance that they have thanks to the amber people 599 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: who receive them there. And I want to end with 600 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: and his reflection on the suffering people endure on their 601 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: way to eat rice and plantain in his little front 602 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 2: room cafe. 603 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 3: Truly, the migrants on this route are not here because 604 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 3: they want to be. They are here because the economy 605 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 3: and their countries is terrible or something. Everything is going 606 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 3: badly on their countries. How can we mistreat them knowing 607 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: that we won't, not us never. This is a belief 608 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 3: that we have. We are all children of God. God 609 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 3: made the world and humanity, and we are not that different. 610 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 3: We are all brothers. 611 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 612 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 613 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 614 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 615 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: now find sources for it could Happen Here listed directly 616 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.