Speaker 1: Everybody, welcome to the shop. What's up?
Speaker 2: I don't know. We just had a fun night last
Speaker 2: night in Memphis at Grind City Brewing.
Speaker 1: That was pretty awesome. I encourage everybody listening to this
Speaker 1: shop talk to listen to the live interview we did
Speaker 1: with fire officer Tim Brown from Manhattan who was twenty
Speaker 1: steps from the front door of the tower on nine
Speaker 1: to eleven when it fell. He saved lives and lost
Speaker 1: lots of people. And we did a live interview in
Speaker 1: Memphis with them last night, and we're a little tired
Speaker 1: because it went late. But my goodness, what an inspirational story.
Speaker 2: Plus, Grind City Brewing has a Rice Crispy Tree beer.
Speaker 2: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: I did not have that. Was it good?
Speaker 2: It was good?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: You gotta go. It's like across the street from your office. Bro.
Speaker 2: You hear like literally admitted drive to that.
Speaker 1: No idea that a Rice Krispy Treat beer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I say that right, Yeah, incredible. Anyway, the interview
Speaker 2: will not be out for a few weeks, so just
Speaker 2: it's not available yet.
Speaker 1: But where's George? I need somebody ring the bell?
Speaker 2: What's score right now?
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. I gotta I'm training an official bell ringer.
Speaker 1: And what is George for He's five five. I've got
Speaker 1: a five year old bell ringer. He's not here, George.
Speaker 1: If you're listening, you know this is not cool, not
Speaker 1: showing up to bell ringing. Down together, guys, we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about a potluck dinner saving our democracy, So
Speaker 1: that's coming up next, right after these brief messages from
Speaker 1: our general sponsors. All right, everybody, shop Talk number fifty two,
Speaker 1: fifty two weeks in a year, fifty two weeks. That
Speaker 1: means we've done a year of shop talks. That's true,
Speaker 1: that's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where's my present?
Speaker 1: I think I deserve the present. You just sit there
Speaker 1: with the earphones on your head and comment occasionally. I
Speaker 1: have to do all the work. Where's my present? I
Speaker 1: know what I want. I want another cake so I
Speaker 1: can eat it with my fingers because that's yummy.
Speaker 2: I think you forgot to say this, and the episode
Speaker 2: were just recorded. Well, it's going to come out before
Speaker 2: her episode two. But no what the guests won't know
Speaker 2: about the cake yet. That episode's not live yet, by
Speaker 2: the title talk.
Speaker 1: Well, then here's the deal. I just tease.
Speaker 2: We've got a Cake Lady, Cake Lady episode coming out.
Speaker 1: We have a cake Lady episode coming out, and I
Speaker 1: make a complete glutton of muscle.
Speaker 2: Actually, there's a good transition. We're about to talk about food. Well,
Speaker 2: that's what we would bring to a potlucker perfect.
Speaker 1: I didn't plan that, but it just rolled into it.
Speaker 1: Could a potluck Save Our Democracy? All right, y'all listen
Speaker 1: up to the shop talk. It's inspiring, it's interesting. Ebu
Speaker 1: Patel is the founder of an Inner Faith America and
Speaker 1: excuse me, the founder of inter Faith America. And he
Speaker 1: gave a fascinating talk to NYU titled could a pot
Speaker 1: luck Dinner Save Our Democracy? I'm going to read a
Speaker 1: portion of it now. I want to begin with something
Speaker 1: of a political story, if you will. So, when I
Speaker 1: was at junior in high school, this is probably ninety
Speaker 1: one ninety two, my mom asked a question that made
Speaker 1: my life considerably more delicious by the way. I love
Speaker 1: that word.
Speaker 2: And you call your kids there, which is weird and
Speaker 2: it's not weird, and a past shop talk that people
Speaker 2: can listen to. My kids are delicious.
Speaker 1: Savor my children.
Speaker 2: Say that you could say that would be a little
Speaker 2: more normal.
Speaker 1: Well, then this guy, that mister Eubu Pattel, is also
Speaker 1: weird because.
Speaker 2: He's calling a meal delicious, not his children. No, he's
Speaker 2: not accountable, he said.
Speaker 1: My mom asked a questions that made my life considerably
Speaker 1: more delicious via food. But keep going, okay, She said,
Speaker 1: would you like to have turkey for Thanksgiving or briyani
Speaker 1: this year? I mean, anybody ever had brianni? The answer
Speaker 1: to that is obvious, right, And there's a deep logic
Speaker 1: to my mom's thinking. So don't get me wrong. The
Speaker 1: turkey is a wonderful bird. It's perfectly nice foul if
Speaker 1: you will. But as far as the dish goes, I mean,
Speaker 1: it can be improved upon. Let us say, my mom's
Speaker 1: sticking to herself. We Muslims from South Asia, we have
Speaker 1: a feast food, we have a celebration food, and Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: is a feast and a celebration, So why wouldn't we
Speaker 1: prepare the far tastier celebration of food of our culture
Speaker 1: for the feast day of the nation of which which
Speaker 1: we live. And we had birani.
Speaker 2: I think it's Biriyani, which I actually had to look
Speaker 2: up this morning.
Speaker 1: It's spelled b r Ya A and I, So what
Speaker 1: do you think it's called.
Speaker 2: I think it's Brianni. But we're clearly both ignorant and
Speaker 2: need to try this dish.
Speaker 1: Fine Brianni. This is glenn Ellen, Illinois in the early
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. Can you guess how many people at glen
Speaker 1: Bard's South High School. I told that my family was
Speaker 1: having biriani for Thanksgiving instead of turkey, and you want
Speaker 1: to venture a guess? Zero? So now here's what's interesting.
Speaker 1: My friends, people I'm still close to today, included a
Speaker 1: South Indian Hindu, a Cuban, a Jew, a Mormon, a Catholic,
Speaker 1: a Lutheran, and a Nigerian Evangelical. That almost sounds like
Speaker 1: the beginning to a joke where they all walked in
Speaker 1: a boar. I promise you turkey was not the main
Speaker 1: dish at everybody's Thanksgiving. My South Indian Hindi friends family
Speaker 1: was vegetarian. None of us talked about the distinctive religious
Speaker 1: and ethnic foods we were having on an American feast day.
Speaker 1: There's a diversity paradigm that describes this reality. It's called
Speaker 1: the melting pot. The idea is that we should all
Speaker 1: melt our distinctiveness into the same general goo. Everybody's heard
Speaker 1: of this diversity paradigm. I grew up in the eighties
Speaker 1: and nineties. This is the paradigm that I grew up with.
Speaker 1: For those of you who were born and raised in
Speaker 1: the twenty first century, this is ancient history to a
Speaker 1: lot of you. In all honesty, you grew up with
Speaker 1: a different diversity paradigm. But for those of us who's
Speaker 1: formative years when the late twentieth century you had to
Speaker 1: have biyani at home, you just didn't talk about it
Speaker 1: at school. At school, you just did what everybody else did.
Speaker 1: You ate what they ate, You wore what they wore,
Speaker 1: You listened to what they listened to. That's the melting Pot.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. The melting Pot was a
Speaker 1: step forward for nineteen seven And I'm being serious when
Speaker 1: I say that, right, that's when the term was invented.
Speaker 1: It's the title of a play by a guy named
Speaker 1: Israel Zangwil, who is a Jewish refugee from Russia and
Speaker 1: who witnessed back in Russia very ugly pograms pigrums. What
Speaker 1: is that?
Speaker 2: It's I mean, they'd just go around and killing a
Speaker 2: bunch of Jews.
Speaker 1: Good programs who witness back in Russia very ugly pograms
Speaker 1: against minorities. And he comes here and he says, you
Speaker 1: know what, we don't bring our conflicts here. It's actually
Speaker 1: a really important thing to consider. Conflicts everywhere should not
Speaker 1: pattern our relationships here. The problem with that is should
Speaker 1: we not bring something of our of our identity, should
Speaker 1: we not be proud of our distinctiveness? So the melting
Speaker 1: pot is a step forward if the alternative is conflict
Speaker 1: between identity groups. And by the way, what happens long
Speaker 1: not long after nineteen oh seven World War One in
Speaker 1: Europe tens of means people die in e ethnic national conflicts.
Speaker 1: The United States has a lot of ugliness in the
Speaker 1: twenty first century, but not that level. The melting pot
Speaker 1: is a step forward for that period in time. But
Speaker 1: for our period, we need a different metaphor. And what
Speaker 1: I want to suggest is the way we think about
Speaker 1: American democracy is it's a potluck? Could it save our democracy? Well,
Speaker 1: let's discuss, but let's talk for a moment about what
Speaker 1: a potluck is. This is again extremely familiar, But I
Speaker 1: actually think the best metaphor and the best symbols are
Speaker 1: extremely familiar. The big idea of a potluck is that
Speaker 1: you want to gather a diverse array of people and
Speaker 1: invite them to bring a dish that is distinctive to
Speaker 1: their identity and household to a common space. And in
Speaker 1: that common space, things work best if there are an
Speaker 1: interesting creative combinations between those dishes and enriching conversation between
Speaker 1: diverse people. So everything I'm describing as super straightforward, super colliloqual, colloquial, colloquial, thanks,
Speaker 1: I have the worst time with that word, super familiar,
Speaker 1: and totally magic. This is the everyday magic of American
Speaker 1: civic life. Let's break this down. Number one, everyone is
Speaker 1: a contributor. So as anybody ever said to someone if
Speaker 1: you've hosted a potluck, hey, I know that you are
Speaker 1: too marginalized to bring a dish. That's a totally serious question.
Speaker 1: Has anyone ever said that everyone else can bring a dish,
Speaker 1: but you are too oppressed to bring a dish? No,
Speaker 1: Holy smokes, that's a great line. Just think about that.
Speaker 1: I'm going to repeat that. Everybody listening need to consider
Speaker 1: what this man's saying. The everyday magic of American civic life.
Speaker 1: Let's break this down. Number one, everyone is a contributor.
Speaker 1: So has anybody ever s I said to someone if
Speaker 1: you voted a potluck, hey, I know that you are
Speaker 1: too marginalized to bring a dish. Has anyone ever said
Speaker 1: that everybody else can bring a dish, but you are
Speaker 1: too oppressed to bring a dish. No, The assumption is
Speaker 1: everybody can bring a dish. Everybody is a contributor. Everybody's
Speaker 1: going to enrich the space of the potluck. Now, people
Speaker 1: are aware that it's easier for some folks than others.
Speaker 1: If you have a really nice house with a nice
Speaker 1: kitchen and plenty of money, it's going to be easier.
Speaker 1: If you have a nice car that you can bring
Speaker 1: that food in, it's going to be easier. There are
Speaker 1: barriers to some people's contributions. We realize that. But the
Speaker 1: barriers don't define people. The contributions to find the people.
Speaker 1: So that's the first thing. The assumption of a potluck
Speaker 1: is that everybody is a contributor. By the way, if
Speaker 1: you don't have a kitchen, you show up early and
Speaker 1: you help clean the space before the other people come.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows they have to contribute. Part one, Part two.
Speaker 1: As much as I like Brianni and for whoever has
Speaker 1: not had it, I highly suggest it. I don't want
Speaker 1: to potluck all of Brianni. And as much as you
Speaker 1: might like hummus or falafol or hamburgers or whatever, you
Speaker 1: don't want a potluck with just that kind of food.
Speaker 1: A potluck is the most delicious, most wonderful, most beautiful
Speaker 1: if there's a diverse array of food that shows up,
Speaker 1: and if you have a wide variety of contributors. Everyone
Speaker 1: knows that, right. So here's the thing. The third thing.
Speaker 1: You don't actually just want there to be an a
Speaker 1: ray of food. You want people to kind of mix
Speaker 1: the food together on their plates. There's nothing better to
Speaker 1: potluck than here's somebody say, oh my gosh, I never
Speaker 1: knew how awesome this crusty bread recipe from Eastern Europe
Speaker 1: would go with this spicy dip from the Middle East.
Speaker 1: And you know what we call that America. We call
Speaker 1: that a space where people from the four corners of
Speaker 1: the earth, praying in different ways, speaking in different tongues,
Speaker 1: bringing their dishes from their identities, come to a single
Speaker 1: space and build out of it a community that's called America.
Speaker 1: Where else do you get this very interesting combination of
Speaker 1: people each invited to bring their dish to the table.
Speaker 1: Where else do you get those cool combinations? There are
Speaker 1: kosher Chinese restaurants in New York. How cool is that?
Speaker 1: They just think it's normal. Right. There are Korean tacos
Speaker 1: in Chicago. They don't even know it's magical. That's just normal.
Speaker 1: People come here and they bring their dishes to the table,
Speaker 1: and those dishes are beautiful and creative. What do you
Speaker 1: do at a potluck? That's living and talking together? What
Speaker 1: else makes a potluck spatial? No mayor, no general, no president,
Speaker 1: no governor can command you to do it. It's the ultimate
Speaker 1: civic form. Citizen by and by citizens, I mean anybody
Speaker 1: who participates in public life can put together their own potlucks.
Speaker 1: They create their own spaces. It's a form that we
Speaker 1: generate and create for ourselves. And when I ask people
Speaker 1: how many of you participated a potluck, virtually every hand
Speaker 1: of the room went up. We do this ourselves. We
Speaker 1: are the generators of this civil society. So for about
Speaker 1: fifteen months after college, every Tuesday night I hosted a potluck.
Speaker 1: It started with five to seven people in a group
Speaker 1: to like sixty people in this little one and a
Speaker 1: half bedroom apartment, this neighborhood between Lincoln Park and Logan
Speaker 1: Square in Chicago. And so I have lived this, and
Speaker 1: I have to tell you something. The first few potlucks,
Speaker 1: I like lost sleep on Monday nights. The put likes
Speaker 1: for it was Tuesday nights. I lost sleep on Monday nights.
Speaker 1: You want to know why, be like, are the vague
Speaker 1: vegans going to be mad? Seriously? Like something could go wrong?
Speaker 1: Just think about the million things that could go wrong
Speaker 1: in a potluck. And you know what's kind of wild.
Speaker 1: It never did. It's possible someone could bring poison, it's true,
Speaker 1: but it almost never happens. That's awesome. The entire speech, obviously,
Speaker 1: is using potluck and a food as a metaphor that we,
Speaker 1: as normal folks, have to not worry about what you
Speaker 1: look like, who you pray to, who you love, how
Speaker 1: you vote. But the beauty of our democracy, the beauty
Speaker 1: of our America, is a melting pot. And mister Patel
Speaker 1: here suggests that we quit using the nineteen oh seven
Speaker 1: term melting pot and go to a nineteen twenty five
Speaker 1: or a twenty twenty five version of that and call
Speaker 1: it a potluck. Because everybody enjoys a potlin It's a
Speaker 1: combining of cultures in a delicious way that you can
Speaker 1: both appreciate and celebrate one another. And over that pot
Speaker 1: luck invariably becomes conversation, where when you leave with your
Speaker 1: bellies full, you also leave with your soul full, understanding
Speaker 1: that our distinctiveness is beautiful and our ability to bring
Speaker 1: that distinctiveness together around a meal and conversation to learn
Speaker 1: about one another is even more fulfilling than the food itself.
Speaker 1: Could a pot luck dinner save our democracy? I would
Speaker 1: say it could, Alex.
Speaker 2: I think it could reduce a lot of our tribals,
Speaker 2: and that's for sure if we actually had these potluck dinners.
Speaker 2: I love his example too, like he actually did this.
Speaker 2: He's not just preaching it. But you did this thing
Speaker 2: with a couple of friends, and it grew to sixty
Speaker 2: people in this smaller part. And imagine if you had
Speaker 2: an arby of normal folks doing that too.
Speaker 1: I love that he said, here's what's interesting. My friends,
Speaker 1: people I'm still close to today include a South Indian Hindu,
Speaker 1: a Cuban, a Jew, a Mormon, a Catholic, a Lutheran,
Speaker 1: and a Nigerian evangelical. Assuming that these are some of
Speaker 1: his closest friends, I would imagine that group of people
Speaker 1: are also close with one another as a group. You
Speaker 1: can't get any more diverse than that.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful and way more interesting if we just say
Speaker 2: barbecue every day. How boring is that?
Speaker 1: Is that on the potluck thing? There's a place in
Speaker 1: Memphis that has barbecue egg rolls and uh.
Speaker 2: And barbicue spaghetti and barbecue spaghetti Italian and yeah, Chinese
Speaker 2: Italian and barbecue, good old Southern stuff.
Speaker 1: And I promise you I don't care how you vote,
Speaker 1: or how you worship or who you love. If you
Speaker 1: and I are sitting around some barbecue spaghetti and barbecue aggrolls,
Speaker 1: we can all agree that's pretty damn good. That's shop
Speaker 1: talk number fifty two, y'all.
Speaker 2: I'm going to include a plug our next lunch and listen,
Speaker 2: hold on, do.
Speaker 1: It just second?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's number fifty two. Can a pot
Speaker 1: luck dinner save our democracy? And I would suggest, both
Speaker 1: literally and metaphorically, Ebo Hotels onto something. A pot lug
Speaker 1: dinner can save our democracy? Now, Alex, what you got well?
Speaker 2: And you're saying that reminds me of people actually do this,
Speaker 2: and you host a potluck dinner that's this interesting and
Speaker 2: diverse email us about it.
Speaker 1: You know what, Thanksgiving pot luck dinner would be kind
Speaker 1: of cool. That would be Wait, which is where this
Speaker 1: generated from?
Speaker 2: And He's right, turkey's good, But it's not like it's
Speaker 2: the best food in the world. I mean, there's better
Speaker 2: dishes out there.
Speaker 1: I don't know, at least as turkey gravy. When you
Speaker 1: put it on turkey and mashed potatoes. I actually look
Speaker 1: for it. Really Ah, it's good stuff. Yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: So the plug is our next live interview in Memphis
Speaker 2: our luncheon. Listen June twelfth, Father Mark Hannah, He and
Speaker 2: four other civilians helped save fifty people's lives on nine
Speaker 2: to eleven. To RSVPN learn more. It is Fathermark dot
Speaker 2: Eventwright dot com. And one thing I was actually thinking
Speaker 2: to driving up to your office today to do this
Speaker 2: is it could be interesting to explain, not explained, but
Speaker 2: justify ourselves. We're doing a lot of this stuff in
Speaker 2: Memphis because you are here, but if people are interested
Speaker 2: in doing this in their cities around the country too.
Speaker 2: Some of these live events. Make sure to email me
Speaker 2: and we could talk about it and see what's possible.
Speaker 1: But obviously I am more than happy to take a
Speaker 1: day and to fly to any city in this country.
Speaker 2: Oh, don't make some commitment that you're not prepared to keep.
Speaker 1: I didn't commit. What I said was I am more
Speaker 1: than happy to fly to any city in this country
Speaker 1: for any Army member to do a live recorded an interview.
Speaker 1: If they can get three hundred people or more there
Speaker 1: so that we can actually have an event, I will
Speaker 1: do it. I will absolutely go to It's.
Speaker 2: A good challenge. We didn't plan this. You just threw
Speaker 2: down the gauntlet.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll do it. If any of you can get
Speaker 1: three hundred people to an event for a live recording
Speaker 1: of a podcast for someone in your community that is
Speaker 1: worthy of being on this show because of the work
Speaker 1: that they're doing, and you can put together an event
Speaker 1: place with three hundred people more in it, I'll come
Speaker 1: and you'll have to do all the audio and video
Speaker 1: and everything else, but I'll do it. I will absolutely
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. So email us Bill a normal Folks out
Speaker 2: Us or me at Army and Normal Focus out Us.
Speaker 2: We need more shop talk ideas too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what else you got, They'll send a shop talk
Speaker 1: I mean I gotta go.
Speaker 2: To work, so yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1: All right, after you shop Talk number fifty two, let's
Speaker 1: put together some potlucks. Hey, I got an idea. Let's
Speaker 1: do remote events in other cities with three hundred people
Speaker 1: and everybody bring a small dish. Let's do national potlucks.
Speaker 2: That would be a big potluck.
Speaker 1: I don't care. It would be awesome, and my fingers
Speaker 1: if someone brings cake.
Speaker 2: It's really respectful if we're going to be sharing these
Speaker 2: dishes whatever.
Speaker 1: If y'all are interested, it's open to you. You just
Speaker 1: gotta gotta meet us halfway and help us pull it off.
Speaker 1: And we'll be there at chop Talk number fifty two.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week.