WEBVTT - Episode 8: Performance without Sacrifice 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.880 much the equipment matters. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.000 I just love that I can hit any shot I 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:06.600 kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.000 Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. If you're 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.000 not watching this on YouTube, you might need to change that. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.279 We are in one of the coolest rooms in all 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:21.680 of golf. Shane Bacon with Marty Jertsen. We were kind 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.280 of going over the coolest rooms in the entire sport. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.720 You think about champions locker room. There's probably some historical 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:30.680 room in the RNA that I don't know about. The 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.199 tap room at Pebble Beach, Arnie's office, and then the 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:37.440 vault room, the Ping Vault putter room that we're in 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:39.440 right now. And I mean, you want to see gold 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.279 and you want to see success, this is it. 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.160 Yeah, this is an amazing place and it never gets 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.160 old coming in here. And there's the story behind every 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:50.440 single one of these putters is quite phenomenal. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.840 Not just the story of how they did to win 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.280 either the golf tournament they did the US Amateur Major, championships. 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:57.080 There's some clubs in here. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.000 You see Louz Tazan's four irony hitd at the Masters, 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.960 Watson the fifty two degree famously that he hooked obviously 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.240 in that playoff. But you know, I mean, I mean 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:08.520 there are stories about the technology that goes into these putters, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.880 and as we talk about proving Grounds, this is basically 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.440 the success story, right, this is the end all be 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.120 all from when things started to when they ended here. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.560 Yeah, this is what all the players are out to do. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.680 They're out to win, and especially the major championships. That's 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.000 quite fun to look at those. And that's what we're 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.520 doing at the proving Grounds. We're working on technology, engineering, 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.880 design fitting to help players get in the vault. 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.120 Yeah. I love the story of the gold putter. If 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:35.600 you never heard it. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.080 Carson Solheim was trying to get creative and how to 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.800 send things to players that won golf tournaments that were 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.760 using a ping putter, and back in the day, I mean, 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.640 you get a one hundred dollars two hundred dollar check, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.880 and he said, why not send something more creative, and 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:48.760 so he sent a gold putter and kept the gold putter, 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.240 and those cold putters went from his closet to a 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.360 bigger room, to a bigger room and now obviously ended 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.520 this vault in a much celebrated room in golf and 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:57.560 both in ping history. 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:59.680 Yeah, I think it's fun to come in here and 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.360 pick out your favorite putter, your favorite experience things made, the. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.960 Weirdest putter, the weirdest putter that's in looks. Yeah, there's some. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.200 There's some prototypes in here, for sure. We would just 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.080 take a look at some big aluminum putters and prototypes. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:14.440 And you know, Lee Westwood is a fun one because 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:18.520 he has I think over fifty putters and seventeen different models. 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:20.520 So you know, it was fun to come in here 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.280 with him. One time he got all his putters out 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.119 and you can see how much he's switch putters over there. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.480 Yeah, you're telling me a story about not just him 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:28.400 pulling the putters out and looking at him, but actually 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.720 asking for a cast of one of the gold putters 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.280 that he could go back and use again. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.520 Yeah, we we used we used a putter because he 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:37.360 was in the lab, he was working on his putting 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.800 technique and his hands got kind of low and where 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.560 he was gripping it, it got too much in the fingers. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.120 He was getting a little too risty. He was like, oh, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.560 I remember, you know, I want to get more set 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.840 up like I did back in you know, the early 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.000 two thousands. So we went into the vault. We grabbed 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.160 a couple of his putters that he won with and 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.680 they're built to the exact same loft and lie with 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.239 the exact same grip that he used. And sure enough, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.959 he got more comfortable, stood a little taller change where 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.640 his grip was, and we ended up building a putter 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.079 for him that year that was based off when he 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.520 won with, based on what he won, So we used it. 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.320 Yeah, history, history plays Before we kind of get into 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.400 the crux of the conversation today. I wanted to bring 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.799 up a very golfy thing to you. We were just 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.480 talking about this a moment ago. It's about practice rounds. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.360 Now you play a lot of tournament golf. Yeah, you 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.560 play a lot of tournament golf in Arizona. Are you 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.160 pro practice around or anti practice? 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.560 If I've played the course, and I know the course 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.840 and Arizona courses, I've played them all, as you've played 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.520 a lot of them. To Shane, I skip, I skip them. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.400 I'd rather go do some block practice and work in 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.680 my home course as long as I know the course right. 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.000 If it's a new place I don't know it, then 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.000 you need to go do your homework. 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:42.000 See I'm I'm the opposite of that. I just don't 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.040 do practice rounds anymore at all. It just costs me, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.240 you know what, I'm two strokes behind the field to start. 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:47.400 It's like the Tour Championship. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.360 I tell you what Google Earth can do you a 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.040 lot of good when it comes to a practice round. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.840 So as we're looking at as I said, the success stories, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.160 I mean, these are putters that won golf tournaments and 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:02.120 this is from concept to players to winning to now 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.040 you're forever in the history books in one of the 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.040 more cool rooms in all of golf. How does a 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:11.080 product go from I have an idea to this room. 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.680 Yeah, it's a great question. I mean that whole product 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.400 development process is pretty fun, Shane. And you know it 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.960 starts with an idea. That idea can come from anywhere. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.800 It could come from you saw something in another industry, 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.840 it could come from you know, kind of an inspiration 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.840 you have on your own individual level, an idea from 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:35.000 another sport. I think whenever I think about innovations and 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.600 how product comes to be. I think the turbulators is 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.000 a really fun good example. Right, we saw in another 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.559 sport on a helmet these little ridges on the edge 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.160 that gave a little advantage aerodynamic advantage, and that kind 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.760 of sparked an idea, Hey, maybe we can apply that 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.000 principle to golf clubs. But from that seeing that idea 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.400 to bringing it to market is quite a complex process. 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:57.680 Right. 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.120 You kind of have this what we call a phase one, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.000 which is making one prototype test the concept. So the 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.560 very first version of turbulators was just welding on little 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.160 ridges to the end, taking it out on track man 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.200 and in a launchmar did it speed up the driver? 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:15.799 Not yes or no. It didn't look good. It was ugly. 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:19.360 It was a crude prototype. But from there it's like, hey, yeah, 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:21.280 it looks like there's something to it. Let's go a 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.440 little deeper, let's do some wind tunnel testing. And then 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.560 once you get there, that's not the end of it, 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:28.480 because then you have to figure out how to ramp 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:30.479 it up into production. You have to figure out how 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:35.320 do you manufacture it? So that's its own level of 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.080 R and D. Right, A lot of times you can 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.839 have an idea a technology. It's kind of quote unquote 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.280 easy to design, but the manufacturing is the hardest part. 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.560 So each one of those steps along the way is 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:47.320 quite rigorous. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.760 I mean, are you you see a helmet? Because I 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.480 think the turbulators is a great starting point here, because 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.599 you know, you're thinking about a driver that had always 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.000 been flat on top, the crown had been flat, and 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.599 all of a sudden, you've got these bumps on top. 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.680 You know, you have to explain that story to people 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.440 for them to kind of buy in. I mean, you know, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.080 people don't like change, and they don't like anything that 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:07.360 looks a little bit different. So are you drawing this out? 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.240 I mean, how are you putting a prototype together that 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:11.800 has these little ridges on top of a driver? 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:13.719 Yeah, there's a couple ways. I think we're doing more 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:15.760 and more virtually now. But at that point in time, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.840 we literally just welded little titanium strips on there, right, 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.400 So we want to make a physical prototype. But now 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.279 we're fortunately we're doing a lot more virtually. So we 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:26.320 can go to the computer. We go into our CAD system, 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.360 which is computer and a design three D system, and 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.320 we can just draw little ridges on there and we 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.799 actually can now are so advanced. We have a software 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:37.279 called computational fluid dynamics. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.359 It doesn't come like computer when I see CFD software, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.479 but this is like a virtual wind tunnel, right, so, 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.080 and then we can throw air at it and see 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:47.719 what's going on words it's separating. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.480 We can do a lot of virtual experiments. What that does. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.960 It allows us to make turbulators of different heights, different angles, 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.240 different numbers of them, and we can run a lot 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.440 of virtual experiments quickly. Then we validate it with a 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:00.440 physical time. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:02.800 How long is that process? I mean you're starting from 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:05.560 I saw a helmet with bumps on top too. I 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:07.200 now have what was the first one? 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:08.640 The G thirty G thirty driver? 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.280 I mean there was. It was a good three years, okay, right, 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.520 if each each step along the way is pretty rigorous. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.960 And if we made a mistake on the turbulators and 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.640 designed them, you know, fifty thousands of an inch too 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.760 short or too big, you can go from helping the 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.000 aerodynamics to hurting it. That's how precise you need it. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:29.200 You need to be with you know, with a design 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:29.840 like that. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.800 So over three years, are you talking one hundred two 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.240 hundred three hundred different prototypes that you maybe have messed with, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.520 even if it's on the computer, to get to the 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:40.960 one that you know will work. 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:41.880 For what you're trying to accomplish. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.360 Yeah, the computer simulations you can do a very high 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.280 number of iterations. You want to be a little more 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.720 cautious on that making physical protepes because it takes all 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.360 you know, there's a lot of time and expense going 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.880 into it, so we try to narrow it down in simulations. 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:56.440 Then we went, for example, we made we toured our 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.840 machine shop right where we can we have a lot 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.040 of C and C milling machines. We made a solid 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:04.000 aluminum driver that had a bunch of inserts in it 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.720 with turbulators of all different shapes and sizes. We took 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.320 it to the wind tunnel and in a very controlled 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.400 experiment and we popped in all these different variations of 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.720 turbulators and we got and then we took data on it, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.200 and that that gave us the rules that we can 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:20.440 play by, right, and then we need to make them 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:21.120 look good too. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.040 That was my next question is just aesthetically because again, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.720 I mean, as we joked a moment ago, there are 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.520 some different looking putters in here. I mean there's some 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.160 putters that you would never in theory think would be 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.320 efficient or would work well. And then there's obviously plenty 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.200 of traditional looking putters in the vault as well. When 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.640 you go, you know, kind of on the extreme, how 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.559 much does the aesthetics play in into it? Because you 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:43.280 still got to you guys all got people interested in 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:44.000 buying the product. 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.640 Yeah, absolutely, you want to make it inspirational. So a 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.000 lot of times that is our challenge is is uh, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.240 it's it's that marriage of art and science, right, And 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.400 that's what beautiful golf clubs that work good are right 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:57.600 is you don't have to sacrifice one for the other. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.960 You could stand at the intersection of both of those things. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.400 What concept that is now a product? Was the hardest 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.800 to get pushed through that you were working on or 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:07.079 that you worked in and around? 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.600 Oh, that's a good question. I think each of the 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.960 technologies has had different levels of challenges. Some of them 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.720 have you know, kind of USG conformance challenges that you're 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.679 you're kind of working on. Some of them have manufacturing challenge, 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:26.640 some of them have durability challenges. I mean even I 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.200 think back to even just putting a matte the matte 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.480 black finish on our driver, right, we kind of that's 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.840 when you saw cars on the road. That is cool. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.520 Matt finished, Hey, I want to do that on a driver. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:38.080 Wh that came from? 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:38.360 It? 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:39.520 Is it driving my vehicle? 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:41.240 That's where it came from. And I got kind of 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.360 a fun story on that. I was playing in the 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.080 PGA Championship. I was playing in a practice round and 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.960 we hadn't launched it yet. This was Atlanta Athletic Club, 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.520 I think twenty eleven PGA Championship, and I was playing 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.680 a practice round with Miguel Jmenez and we had shown 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.800 him I think our I twenty driver or some is 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:02.320 a prototype at that time, and he was like, Hey, 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.520 that's going to be good. When you're about to tee off. 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:07.240 One of the problems you're faced with is is the 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.839 crowd starts to get quiet, and the marshals raise the 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.200 quiet sign, and sometimes you can see it in the 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.440 reflection of your driver. So I'm literally playing with him 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.880 a month later and I'm in a practice round with 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:19.880 him and we're about to tee off, and I remember 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.120 it got really quiet. There's a handful of people around, 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:24.600 and then the Marshall goes like this and write them 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.680 my glossy g G G twenty driver. At the time, 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:28.960 I was. 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:30.079 Like, that's it. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.760 That's the pain point we're solving with the map. Finish here, 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.160 like he told me it was gonna happen. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.160 You know, it doesn't feel like to me that peeing 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.520 is necessarily on a timeline in terms of new clubs. 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.560 So what does a new club have to show to 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.760 you guys and to players and to your professionals to 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.160 get pushed through and then to be introduced to the public. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.560 Yeah, it's a great question. So yeah, we, as you know, Shane, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.920 we set pretty aggressive goals for ourselves that every time 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.840 we come out with the product, it has to be 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.679 meaningfully better than its predecess And. 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.280 Is that quantified in terms of numbers being meaningful because 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:05.280 you know, I mean meaningful. I guess to any golfer 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:06.520 could be picking up two or three yards. 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:08.600 Yeah, right, what's the definition of that? So we'll set 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.839 design goals. Hey, you know, G four to thirty driver. 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.800 We want to have x percent x you know, miles 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.160 an hour higher ball speed. We want to improve the 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.480 spin consistency a certain amount, or it could be an 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.319 acoustics thing. You know, we need to get a perception 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.320 rating that our players love the sound of our driver 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.720 substantially better than it's processor, right, and that could be 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.480 a goal for us from an acoustics standpoint. 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.199 Yeah, make it sound better, make it look better, and 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.080 obviously make it perform better. I've always been interested in testing, 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.360 and by testing, I mean using the players that you 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.319 might have on staff. How much in terms of testing 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.080 something new, especially something big that you know is are 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.080 going to really blow up the industry, how much do 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.440 you lean on professional golfers and people on your staff 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.360 to test it out, try it out and get feedback 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:51.679 from them. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:53.840 Yeah, quite a bit, especially as we're getting right down 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.680 to the finish line of the product, right, and we 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.400 want to make sure it is going to be meaningfully 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.559 better for them, right, So we bring them in before 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.959 we launch the product. You know, quite often we're doing 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:06.080 it literally here at the proving grounds. It's kind of 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:07.920 living up to its name there to stress tests that 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.360 make sure it's solving the right problems for them. We've 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.640 done our due diligence in the design process. We have 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.840 a lot of good, good player employees here. But ultimately, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.360 I mean especially if it's a you know, blade iron 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.600 or blueprint iron, something like that. We get the tour 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.920 players directly involved in the in the final development of it. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.720 I mean, something like the blueprint iron. We partnered right 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.480 up with the tour players doing during the entire design 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:35.120 process to make sure we're optimizing the size, the blade length, 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:39.199 the look every you know, the turf interaction, the acoustics, 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:40.040 everything of that nature. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.360 And you're taking the information so like a Tony Finow says, 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.160 you know, the top line could be adjusted here or there. 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.760 How much of that feedback are you actually taking in 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:50.160 and changing the equipment. 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.000 Yeah, for an eye, for an iron that's specifically designed 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.200 for the best players in the world. A ton. I 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:58.559 mean we're we're driving the designs directly off of them. 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.280 I mean, I even remember we did the Eye I 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:04.719 ten iron. We work with christ de Marco a lot 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.280 on that iron, right, We shape things and shape the 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:10.120 top rail, and he was one of the main main 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.800 drivers on everything that came to be so our better 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.160 player irons we use them. A ton. 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:19.199 What's the biggest misconception that the general public has about 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.400 golf equipment? You know, maybe maybe they think one thing 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.040 and you guys know the opposite. 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:25.480 Yeah, I think I think it kind of goes back 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.600 to I think that the general public things that we're 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.440 making trade offs that are kind of zero sum, like, oh, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.679 you know, I'm gonna play a more workable iron, therefore 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.720 it's gonna be less forgiving. I'm gonna play a lower 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.120 spinning driver, therefore it's not gonna go straight. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:39.800 Right. 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.680 I think that's the biggest thing is that you can 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.720 get two positive things at the same time. We've proved that, right, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.400 we have an LST driver. It's low spin and it 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.959 goes straight and it has high forgiveness, so we can 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.560 you can you can have two good things happen at 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:54.080 the same time. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.920 I know everybody's different and every player is different, but 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.440 when you introduce new equipment to your professional golfers, how 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.600 many questions are they asking about it? Are there some 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.880 players that ask nothing? And is there some players that 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:05.520 ask everything? 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:05.760 Oh? 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.000 Man, that's a great one, Shane, because they're all over 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:10.559 the place. Okay, you have field players that don't want 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.480 to know the physics. They're all about the field. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.599 So I mean they're professional golfers now that if you 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.160 send them a new driver, they're like cool. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.120 Sweet, thanks, We know you guys rocked it. 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.080 Yeah, I mean nowadays almost everyone's using a launch monitor. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.040 But even then, I mean some people are still going 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.000 by the feel and the flight a little bit, you know, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.200 and then you'll have others they get they want to 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.440 know exactly what you change, why you change it, the 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:33.600 details of the specs, and they get very mechanical. So 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.680 there is a broad spectrum. I'm actually surprised that there's 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.800 that big of a spectrum out there on tour. 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.760 Which player have you worked with you mentioned Krista Marco. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.840 Which player have you worked with over your years of 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.760 doing this that kind of understood the most about the 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:47.960 equipment they were playing? 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.000 Yeah, I think, I mean it comes to my mind 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.200 like Jeff Maggert, he got really into the details there. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.160 I think Mark Wilson one that was one that got 0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:02.280 really into the details of it. Let's see Daniel Summer Hayes. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.920 I mean that guy got really into the nitty gritty 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.280 and then uh, you know, non staff player for us, 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.760 but Charles Howell he got he got into the physics 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:10.800 and and down to. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.760 Just asking questions after question after question, just really wanted 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.760 to know every like micro inch of everything that was going. 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.520 On exactly crazy. Dan Daniel summer Hayes was a fun 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.320 one because we've we've done some real fun micro tweaking 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:24.200 with his equipment. He spent a lot of time in 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.400 our three D motion capture system really trying to when 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.120 you don't hit it far. I mean, one of the 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.840 biggest challenges you have to really squeeze out maximum performance 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:32.720 out of the rest of your game. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.440 Have you ever not tweaked something until the player you 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:35.800 tweaked it? 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:37.080 Because I used to do this. I was Caddy and 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:37.960 you just lie about the numbers. 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.480 Oh yeah, I mean I think are our tour reps. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.160 I mean they would have some stories about that we 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:42.640 can ask. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.440 Yeah, it's it's a degree close. 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:51.000 Are fine? Which club driver? Fairway Woods, Irons, wedges, putters? 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.160 Which one takes the most time to create? 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.800 I mean, the driver's the most complex because you're pushing 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.640 the envelope. You're pushing the manufacturing envelope. You're pushing the 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.840 envelope on you know, performance and volume and ct and 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.760 and there's it's going to be the most measured as 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.280 everyone measures ball speed and forgiveness is straightness. So I 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.440 think the driver, you know, and you're pushing durability limits 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.280 has a last for all these young college kids that 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.440 are swinging one hundred and thirty miles an hour, you know, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.360 So you're pushing on all these limits at the same time. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.400 So the drivers is by far the most complex. 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.360 Marty, as we look around. You mentioned one of the 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.440 putters that you've designed goes on to win. What is 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.240 it like internally when you see a club find this 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:32.160 level of success. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.320 Yeah, there's a lot of pride to it. And I 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.280 know all of us in engineering who've worked on product 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:42.360 designs or touched the process in any way, it take 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.600 tons of pride in it because we know the players 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.680 are this are livelihoods. I mean, this is what they're 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.400 working towards. And then we get they get out there 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.840 and get a victory with a product that we've either 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:54.720