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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People, Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 1: You're a weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening,

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Speaker 1: there's people trying to make the bad things not happen

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Speaker 1: as much or as badly. I'm your host, Margaret kilj

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Speaker 1: and this week I have a guest, Juan Monique, who

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Speaker 1: is a podcast producer of Filmmaker.

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Speaker 2: How are you hey, Margaret, I am okay. It's been

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Speaker 2: a lot out here in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I believe.

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Speaker 2: It, And so we are trying to be both realistic

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Speaker 2: and positive, which is proving to be quite the challenge

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, those are two things. That's actually what I try

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Speaker 1: to do with the show, and it's one of the

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Speaker 1: hardest needles to thread, is realistic and positive. I see

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Speaker 1: people describing what's happening in LA right now as the

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Speaker 1: US is trying to manufacture a war zone there. That's

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Speaker 1: the way I've seen people talk about it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's exactly how it feels. It's wild to

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Speaker 2: roam the streets that used to be really. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I live in the valley which is very immigrant heavy.

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Speaker 2: A lot of first generation American friends who are very

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Speaker 2: nervous about their families right now, the ghost carts of

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Speaker 2: just rout vendors on all their stuff left behind are

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Speaker 2: the folks who sell flowers alongside the highway. You're seeing

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Speaker 2: buckets and no people like it's very surreal. But I

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Speaker 2: also think, you know, shout out La Taco, who's been

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Speaker 2: doing really great on the ground news coverage of this stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful to see our communities fighting back and trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out ways not to actively engage in what

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Speaker 2: could be considered warfare or violence because we know that

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Speaker 2: tends to ramp them up and give them more of

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Speaker 2: an excuse, but also to aggressively protect people who need protecting.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of fine lines being walked. But I've

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Speaker 2: never been more in love with my community. I really

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Speaker 2: feel that everyone's doing their best to try to preserve

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Speaker 2: and protect our community. As challenging as it is, but

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Speaker 2: it's really beautiful to see that it's thriving.

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Speaker 3: Still.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool, that's I mean, it's awful, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: the ghost carts thing sounds yeah, yeah, awful, And it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. One of the things that you run

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Speaker 1: across all the time is that you're just like watching

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Speaker 1: people come together in the worst moments, you're still having

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Speaker 1: the worst moments. Yeah, you also have this weird it's

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Speaker 1: like shot through with this hope or or something. I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was connectedness.

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Speaker 2: You're like, oh, we're not alone, and I think our

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Speaker 2: society is pretty good at convincing us you're an individual

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Speaker 2: and you're doing this alone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice to be reminded that you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well that ties in really well into today's subject,

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Speaker 1: because today's subject is a group of people that make

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Speaker 1: sure some of the people who would otherwise be the

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Speaker 1: most alone or not alone. And they are also the

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Speaker 1: single group that I have ever covered who, for about

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Speaker 1: ninety years now, has been part of literally every progressive

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Speaker 1: movement that's happened. Ooh, because today I'm going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the National Lawyer's Guild.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so okay. Can I tell you

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Speaker 2: why I'm so happy? Whenever people are like very down,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, but are you watching the courts? Okay, people

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Speaker 2: are working, and that's let's say, it's the last place

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Speaker 2: really that we have protected. I don't believe in our

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Speaker 2: House or our Senate. And if we're really looking at

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Speaker 2: our highest court. It's scary, but our lawyers and our

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Speaker 2: judges on lower levels, they are fighting for your humanities.

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Speaker 3: I'm really excited to talk about this.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out exactly what I was

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Speaker 1: going to cover this week. For the past few months,

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to cover like the bits and pieces

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the modern protest movement. Specifically, I've

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Speaker 1: been covering the alter globalization movement of like the late

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Speaker 1: nineties and early aughts and all of the different pieces

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Speaker 1: that came together to make that possible. And so we've

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Speaker 1: talked about like the Zapatistas, We've talked about the Black Block,

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Speaker 1: We've talked about the Battle of Seattle in nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: and I want to talk about lawyers because it's a

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Speaker 1: weirdly invisible labor mm hmm. And even though it's like

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Speaker 1: one of the fanciest jobs available in like activism, when

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Speaker 1: it's working, you ignore it. You're like, oh, that's just

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Speaker 1: taken care of, you know, And the thing that takes

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Speaker 1: care of you as an activist if you go out

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Speaker 1: and get arrested doing activism is an incredible amount of

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Speaker 1: volunteer work by an incredible number of people. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: have you run across NLG stuff before.

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Speaker 2: Or I'm not familiar with the National is your National

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Speaker 2: Layer skilled?

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Speaker 1: Yeah totally yeah, No, not as familiar as I like

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Speaker 1: to be. Okay, Well, if you ever at our protest

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Speaker 1: and you see people wearing like a neon green hat,

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Speaker 1: this is legal observer.

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Speaker 3: I've seen those guys.

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Speaker 1: They are with or accredited by the National Lawyer's Guild. Oh,

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Speaker 1: they actually own a trademark on the word legal observer

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Speaker 1: in this context lawyers, I know, I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's a fac They said, Actually, what you won't

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Speaker 2: do is encourage them on our jobs, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I started off being like, oh, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: research these folks. I'm like interested, you know, they do

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Speaker 1: good stuff or whatever. And I found myself just like

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Speaker 1: I was messaging one of my friends is in energy

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Speaker 1: and just being like you all are amazing, Like I

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Speaker 1: have no idea because the state has come for them

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Speaker 1: so many times and tried to destroy them so many times.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons that they don't fall apart

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Speaker 1: is that they're hard to come after legally because they're

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Speaker 1: all really good lawyers.

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Speaker 2: We know the law and you can't use it against us.

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Speaker 1: I love that it would be like if you were like,

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Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna go beat up this crew of boxers,

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Speaker 1: you know, like.

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Speaker 2: It's foolish and also terrifying, but also so great that

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Speaker 2: they've been able to consistently be like, no, actually the

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Speaker 2: law holds, which I think right now is maybe should

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Speaker 2: be everyone's biggest fear. Yeah, you know, if the rules

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Speaker 2: are set up to work the way they're supposed to work,

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Speaker 2: will probably be okay. But if they cave, that's what

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Speaker 2: we Yeah, you know, that's when it gets super scary

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Speaker 2: and so right, like the laws are holding.

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Speaker 3: That's exciting.

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Speaker 2: And I love a group of badass lawyers because really

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Speaker 2: I think this is sort of like the folks who

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Speaker 2: go into like more on the ground like community active

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Speaker 2: work as opposed to you know, like a social worker,

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Speaker 2: police work sort of job, like folks that actually care

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Speaker 2: and they're like, hey, no, we're actually going to use

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Speaker 2: these rules and enforce them for the people as opposed

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Speaker 2: to being forces of authority.

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Speaker 3: I love that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And there's a certain amount of hope and

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about about how like we're all hoping

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Speaker 1: that certain forms of the rule of law hold right

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Speaker 1: as fashions interested undermine them because they uniquely survive the

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Speaker 1: Red Scare, and we're going to get to it. Ooh

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Speaker 1: ooh ooh.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I love the Red Scare. It just as a

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Speaker 3: point in history, not as an action.

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Speaker 1: No, no, I understand. Okay. But I'm of course going

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Speaker 1: to take this back to the nineteenth century, because of

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Speaker 1: course I am. Because I'm going to talk about two

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Speaker 1: lawyers working together who don't share a political ideology in

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Speaker 1: a way that I find really fascinating. And the very

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Speaker 1: first episode of this show, three or four years ago

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Speaker 1: or whatever it was. I don't know how long I've

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Speaker 1: had a job. I've there's no time before or after podcasting.

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Speaker 1: All I do is podcast anyway. I love my job anyway.

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Speaker 1: So the very first episode was about the Haymarket affair

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Speaker 1: of eighteen eighty six. Have you ever heard of this?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to speed run it because I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get to the court case involved. This wasn't

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Speaker 1: quite the birth of the American labor movement, and it's

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Speaker 1: not the first moment with like fire and bullets and

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Speaker 1: death in the labor movement, but this is one of

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Speaker 1: the loudest, earliest moments of the American labor movement. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty six, on May first, the organized working class

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Speaker 1: of the United States of America declared that they were

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Speaker 1: going to have the eight hour workday no matter what.

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Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of workers across the country went on

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Speaker 1: strike and participated in these huge demonstrations for eight hour workday.

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Speaker 1: A lot of employers caved right away and were like,

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Speaker 1: I find you can have eight hour work day. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to deal with this, but other ones fought,

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Speaker 1: so the workers fought to and one of the most

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Speaker 1: militant and popular associations of workers was the International Working

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Speaker 1: People's Association, which was an anarchist organization that was particularly

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Speaker 1: popular among immigrants, and one of the most militant groups

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Speaker 1: was in Chicago. Yeah, it was, yeah, And two figures

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Speaker 1: in particular stood out in the English speaking chunk of

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Speaker 1: that movement, whereas a lot of it was German speaking

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Speaker 1: and other immigrant languages. And there was a power couple,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of love a power couple absolutely, Lucy

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Speaker 1: Parsons and her husband, Albert Parsons. Even heard of Lucy Parsons.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm from Chicago, so that's why I'm.

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Speaker 1: Like Yeah, Lucy Parsons is like one of the threads

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Speaker 1: that ties together everything that comes after her is so

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Speaker 1: it's amazing. She was a black woman who had been

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Speaker 1: born into slavery. Her husband, Albert, was a white man

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Speaker 1: who had already been shot once in Texas for registering

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Speaker 1: black voters after the Civil War. Their interracial marriage was illegal.

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Speaker 1: That didn't stop them. They moved to Chicago. They saw

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Speaker 1: striking workers get gunned down in the streets by the

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Speaker 1: dozens during the Big railroad strike of eighteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember in my be eighteen seventy eight. That's

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Speaker 1: not in my script, so I'm not beholden to know

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Speaker 1: the date. And both of them were like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: going to take a lot to make labor rights happen.

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Speaker 1: And they become more and more radical, and so you

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Speaker 1: have these two anarchists. They're running newspapers, they're throwing big

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Speaker 1: labor marches together, all the while raising kids. And Lucy

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Speaker 1: owns a dress shop for the dresses that she sews.

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Speaker 1: And during the May Day strikes, a couple days into it,

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Speaker 1: police opened fire and killed some workers who were striking

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Speaker 1: at a factory in Chicago. People held a labor in

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Speaker 1: response at a place called Haymarket Square, and Albert Parsons

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Speaker 1: and a few other people spoke at that the cops

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Speaker 1: tried to disperse it. Someone was like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: fuck all this, Like they keep shooting my friends, I'm

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Speaker 1: done with this and throws a bomb at the cops,

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Speaker 1: and the cops start shooting everyone. It is called the

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Speaker 1: Haymarket massacre or the Haymarket Riot or the Haymarket affair,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you ask, And so the cops go wild,

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Speaker 1: just fucking wild for weeks after that, they round up

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Speaker 1: anyone that they can accuse of being an anarchist, and

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Speaker 1: at the time, anarchists and socialists were in Chicago kind

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Speaker 1: of synonymous terms with each other. Hmm. Anyone who's an immigrant,

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Speaker 1: especially like anyone who's an immigrant, anarchist or socialist, and

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Speaker 1: anyone that they suspected might be one of these things.

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Speaker 1: And they literally say things like arrest everyone now, look

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Speaker 1: up the laws later. So you have this setup where

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Speaker 1: the state in this case clearly is only using laws

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Speaker 1: as an enforcement technique and not actually listening to their

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Speaker 1: own legal structure when they don't want to. And eight

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Speaker 1: men find themselves on trial including Albert, Lucy's husband. The

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Speaker 1: prosecution is openly like, we don't think any of them

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Speaker 1: threw the bomb. We don't care. They're anarchists and they

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Speaker 1: should die. That's their aggressive Yeah, directly.

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Speaker 2: Wow, they're like, make sure nobody else has these thoughts again, please, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we'd like to end them now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Good.

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Speaker 1: Which is interesting because it puts two different things on trial.

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Speaker 1: It puts anarchism on trial, for sure, but it also

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Speaker 1: threatens the American legal system. It threatens the ideas of

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Speaker 1: free speech, it threatens these things that some people believe in, right,

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Speaker 1: And so when none of them had any money for

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Speaker 1: legal representation, and also the entire country is in this

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Speaker 1: huge anti anarchist moment at this point, and so anyone

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Speaker 1: who would represent them is torpedoing their career. And they've

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Speaker 1: got like one movement lawyer, but they need a team,

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Speaker 1: and they need someone to head that team is much

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Speaker 1: more experienced. And so today's first cool person stepped in

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Speaker 1: besides Lucy and Albert, who I think are cool, but

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Speaker 1: they're not lawyers, and this is an episode about lawyers,

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Speaker 1: was this man who was not an anarchist, not a socialist,

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Speaker 1: not a Marxist, and he was someone who believed in

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Speaker 1: doing what was right, and he believed in the American

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Speaker 1: legal system. His name was Captain William Perkins Black, from

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Speaker 1: a local prominent law firm, Denton Black, which is a

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Speaker 1: I feel like if I was making up a fictional Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, Denton Black.

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Speaker 2: It feels very futuristic for its time period, right, that's true.

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Speaker 3: This would have really hit in the eighties and nineties,

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Speaker 3: that's true.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely would have worn like kind of uncomfortably small sunglasses.

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Speaker 2: You know, exactly exactly and suits too far too large.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, which is funny because actually what is

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Speaker 1: actually true is that this is the nineteenth century, so

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Speaker 1: they're all, including all the anarchists, wearing really nice suits

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Speaker 1: probably like sys. Yeah. William Black, who I hope went

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Speaker 1: by Billy Black because that would be a good name.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely was a white man born in either Mississippi or Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: depending on your source, whose family soon moved to the

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Speaker 1: North or was already in the North, depending on your source.

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Speaker 1: And it's kind of frustrating because it like, sort of

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Speaker 1: he's about to join the Union Army, and so if

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Speaker 1: he's a Southerner form Mississippi joining the Union Army, it's

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Speaker 1: like a different vibe.

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Speaker 3: That's huge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as opposed to already up north just signing up

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Speaker 2: for Yeah, I'm seeing the difference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He's about nineteen or so when the Civil War

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Speaker 1: breaks out and he and his brother John Black, who

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Speaker 1: I hope went by Jack Black, joined the Union Army,

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Speaker 1: and he and his brother became the first brothers to

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Speaker 1: ever earn the Medal of Honor, which is the highest

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Speaker 1: military distinction. Yeah, Billy Black got that distinction I think

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Speaker 1: at the same battle as his brother, but I'm actually

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Speaker 1: not sure because I didn't read as much as his

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Speaker 1: brother at the Battle of p Ridge on March seventh,

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty two, by fucking single handedly holding back like

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Speaker 1: a hundred Confederates who were like trying to take an

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Speaker 1: artillery position.

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Speaker 3: Come through Billy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he gets shot in the side or he

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Speaker 1: gets wounded in the side. I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: it happened, but he takes a nearly murder wound, and

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Speaker 1: he single handedly holds the Union artillery from being taken

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Speaker 1: by the Slave army. And he stays in the war

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Speaker 1: for several more battles and campaigns and shit. Wow, So

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Speaker 1: after he helped in the war that ended legal chattel slavery.

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Speaker 1: Although we've talked about before in the show, and I

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Speaker 1: always try and point out whenever possible, that war was

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Speaker 1: largely won by the labor actions of enslaved workers in

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Speaker 1: the US South who completely crippled the Confederate economy by

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Speaker 1: refusing to work, and their actions get largely uncredited. But

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Speaker 1: this guy still did his part. I still think he

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Speaker 1: was cool for this. He moves to Chicago and he

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Speaker 1: becomes a corporate lawyer. He's just like a guy, right,

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Speaker 1: He's just like, ah, I'm a captain and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go join Denton Black. And he defends like railroad

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Speaker 1: companies and shit, and he's like, not a political radical,

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Speaker 1: but the haymarket defendants need legal counsel and very few

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Speaker 1: people are willing to help them, and so Billy Black

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Speaker 1: torpedoes his career to step up. Oh my gosh, Denton

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Speaker 1: Black is no more. Dent Is like, I want nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with you, you filthy socialist or whatever. I

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Speaker 1: don't know who.

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Speaker 2: He represents the railroad company in eighteen hundred, sir, we're

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Speaker 2: not trying to get into the politics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally gone, Yeah exactly. And so he teams up.

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Speaker 1: He has a legal team, and one of the other

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Speaker 1: people on the team is the movement lawyer. I was

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Speaker 1: probably not a phrase they used at the time, but

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Speaker 1: the person who's actually politically aligned with the socialist and

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Speaker 1: well they're all anarchists, but they use the terms interchangeably

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Speaker 1: named Sigmund Zeisler, and who is a German immigrant himself,

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Speaker 1: I think actually from Austria. But I am not totally

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Speaker 1: always clear on exactly where all the political lines are

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Speaker 1: when people immigrate in the nineteenth century. Sure, and Zeisler

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Speaker 1: says what Black did was quote nothing short of heroism

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Speaker 1: for stepping up famously. The defense lost, like hell, five

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Speaker 1: of the men were sentenced to death. Black did not quit.

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Speaker 1: He took his appeals all the way to the Supreme courts,

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Speaker 1: first of Illinois and then of the entire United States.

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Speaker 1: So this is how he's torpedoing his career, right. He

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Speaker 1: is like continuing this incredibly unpopular thing all of the

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Speaker 1: way because I think because he just believes that you

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Speaker 1: can't tell people that they can't have ideas.

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Speaker 2: I think, if you fought for the continued utification of

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Speaker 2: the United States by single handily fighting off one hundred people.

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Speaker 2: The injustice of this might drive you a little crazy.

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Speaker 2: You might be like, for real, though, for real, the

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Speaker 2: people that make sure we eat insane insane? Please feel

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Speaker 2: like they're just workers, Okay, they they just want to

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Speaker 2: work eight hours a day and y'all want to kill

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Speaker 2: them first speaking, Yeah, no, can't sleep, must defend.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And like the first time I read about that,

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Speaker 1: he was this complete side character. I only mentioned him

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Speaker 1: really vaguely in the episodes I did about it, but

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Speaker 1: it kind of stuck with me. His story of like,

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Speaker 1: it's not that he did something more radical than Sigmund Zeisler, right,

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Speaker 1: but he he did go out further on a limb

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Speaker 1: that he didn't need to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, he could have easily skated in the background,

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Speaker 2: been like, wow, that's crazy, look what's happening out there,

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Speaker 2: but he inserted himself right in the front of it.

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Speaker 2: And that's yeah, it takes some balls, let's grave.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's like, actually, just believes in the rule

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Speaker 1: of law. And so you have these two lawyers, Captain

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Speaker 1: William Black and Sigmun Zeisler, and they work together on

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Speaker 1: the case, and it is that spirit of socialists working

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Speaker 1: alongside people who just actually want the American system to

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Speaker 1: live up to its promise. That is going to animate

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Speaker 1: the creation of the National Lawyer's Guild, one of the

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Speaker 1: most powerful forces of good in the US for almost

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Speaker 1: ninety years. Now, they're two years away from their ninetieth anniversary.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: But you know what has been around for a lot

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Speaker 1: longer than ninety years. Hmmm, the concept of advertising. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we are right now participating in an age old tradition

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Speaker 1: by interspersing content with advertisements. Don't you feel proud to

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Speaker 1: be part of history.

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Speaker 3: Honored to be part of the commerce chain? Really?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really excited about our little place in that line up.

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Speaker 3: That's nice.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. Here's some ads and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first piece of context I wanted to offer.

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Speaker 1: The second was that I started reading all of these

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Speaker 1: pieces about the National Lawyer's Guild, and they assumed that

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Speaker 1: I knew a lot of things that I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: Okay. Lawyers tend to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I'm going to assume that the listener

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Speaker 1: doesn't know some of the things that I didn't know.

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Speaker 3: That's really fair.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what a bar association is?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Now this is a term I've heard that if somebody

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Speaker 2: asked me, I feel like I could fake a definite bar.

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Speaker 3: You got to pass the bar to do the things.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it's like a group of people who oversee

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Speaker 2: that test and make sure everyone's on the up and

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Speaker 2: up to be part of a lawyer.

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Speaker 3: Think, are we close?

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Speaker 1: That's what I thought, and that's true. But that's only

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Speaker 1: half of it. Oh, because that's okay. So, like I assumed,

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Speaker 1: the bar was like a test you have to pass

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Speaker 1: in any given state in order practice law in the state,

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Speaker 1: and most states are that way, okay, But it is

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Speaker 1: more convoluted than that.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 1: There are these things called bar associations, which are associations

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Speaker 1: for lawyers. The word bar comes from the railing that

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Speaker 1: separates the judge from the court, and the word barrister,

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Speaker 1: which I think is some like England thing that sounds

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Speaker 1: like it comes from that as well. It's from the

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Speaker 1: same etymology. And so you have these bar associations, and

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Speaker 1: some are mandatory most states, you need to be admitted

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Speaker 1: to the bar the state's bar association in order to

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Speaker 1: practice law in that state. But others are voluntary, okay,

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Speaker 1: And there's both states where the state bar association doesn't

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Speaker 1: make you need to pass it. I think Illinois is

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Speaker 1: one of those. But don't go practicing law in Illinois

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Speaker 1: without check in first. This is not legal advice. Nothing

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Speaker 1: I say is. I am not a lawyer, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not your lawyer. But in this case, a bar association

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Speaker 1: is just a word for a group of lawyers who

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Speaker 1: come together to try and accomplish things. It's like a

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Speaker 1: professional organization. Oh okay, And so they do things like

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Speaker 1: develop best practices, right including I think that's where the

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Speaker 1: mandatory ones probably come from, as people being like, well,

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Speaker 1: in Illinois, you better do it like this, right. Well,

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Speaker 1: that one's not mandatory, so that's a terrible example. But

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Speaker 1: unless it is, again, I'm just gonna go practice law

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Speaker 1: in Illinois and see what happened. But they would also

409
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Speaker 1: do like political lobbying, develop legal frameworks to suggest to politicians,

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Speaker 1: and basically have these like associations like professional associations for example.

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Speaker 1: And an important example, because they are the villain of

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Speaker 1: today's episodes, the American Bar Association, who's still around and

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Speaker 1: are not as conservative as I'm going to describe them

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of them, But okay, fuck their old days,

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Speaker 1: and I know nothing about their new days. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea whether they're good or bad. The ABA, they

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Speaker 1: were founded in eighteen seventy eight, and they were conservative

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Speaker 1: as fuck. In nineteen twelve, they like realized they had

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Speaker 1: led a black man in kind of oops. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: it's a terrible mistake. They must have.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the paperwork got missed over. Something happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he was the Assistant Attorney General of the

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Speaker 1: United States. Oh shit, William H. Lewis.

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Speaker 3: Ok.

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Speaker 1: They kicked him out in nineteen twelve for being even

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Speaker 1: though he was again the US is assistant Attorney General.

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Speaker 3: Guys, Wow, you can't. I don't think that's how it works,

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: And like one of the things that like I didn't

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Speaker 1: know from my American education is, you know, we get

431
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Speaker 1: presented like progress is kind of linear.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So like they're slavery and then like it gets a

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Speaker 1: little better, and then civil.

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Speaker 2: Rights Jim Crow, yeah, and then the civil rights movement

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Speaker 2: for yeah, we skipped right over the drug war to

437
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: Obama and then Tadah Yeah, equal rights exactly.

438
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: I was gonna make a terrible joke. I've never faced

439
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: racial discrimination so just.

440
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: Oh, man, yeah, I know, now those school books are

441
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: like slaves. They were workers, and some of their masters

442
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: were nice. Yeah, it was an okay time. God, no

443
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: crimes were committed here. No, No, it was legal, So

444
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: what could be the problem?

445
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, but one of the things that like I pretty

446
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: quickly learned the basics of. But the more I study history,

447
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: the more I realized how deeply true this is. That

448
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: things have ebbeden flowed, and actually things got like more

449
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: racist again for a while in the beginning of the

450
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: twentieth century, and like Jim Crow laws and all that stuff.

451
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: You know that reconstruction has whatever had a lot of promise,

452
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: even if people were getting shot for registering voters, although

453
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: that was true in the eighteen sixties and the nineteen sixties.

454
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: So ay, anyway, I was surprised that the US's assistant

455
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: Attorney General was black, But I wasn't surprised that he

456
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: was kicked out of the organization. I was mostly surprised

457
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 1: he was in it in the first place. Yes, And

458
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: they were surprised too. They were like, actually, we thought

459
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: we were whites only, and then they formalized whites only.

460
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: They let women in in nineteen eighteen, but of course

461
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: white women only. Yes, in nineteen forty three they will

462
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: officially say, okay, technically we can let black people in.

463
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: And in nineteen fifty they actually let a couple black

464
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: people in. Oh, I am suspecting that it is not

465
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: a coincidence that that is after the formation of the

466
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: National Lawyers Guild. But we'll get to that, because I

467
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: think that kind of shamed them. So there's things called

468
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: bar associations, and the ABA basically existed to be the

469
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: like no progressives, no people of color, like, no women,

470
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: like good old boys lawyer club. Sure to start with

471
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: one cool bar association that's older than the National Lawyers

472
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: Guild by eleven years, twelve years, the National Bar Association AH,

473
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: which gets called predominantly African American, and they were found

474
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty five by a bunch of black lawyers

475
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 1: who were like, yeah, it sucks that we're not allowed

476
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 1: to join any of the bar associations, even though we're

477
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: allowed to be lawyers.

478
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 2: We can practice law, but we do not have our

479
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 2: own association. We'll create our own and our name will

480
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: be better. National Bar Associations sounds so much more official

481
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: than American Bar associates, nary bar associations like the dot

482
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: co ye.

483
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: Totally, totally, and they're the NBA and they're still around

484
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,439
Speaker 1: and they're founding goals even though like obviously part of

485
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: it was like, hey, we're not allowed in any associations,

486
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: so we should start one that we can be in.

487
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: But they're founding goals. Weren't just for black people, though

488
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: that would have been plenty, right. Their founding goal was

489
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: to quote, advance the science of jurisprudence, uphold the honor

490
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 1: of the legal profession, promote social intercourse among the members

491
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 1: of the American bar, and protect the civil and political

492
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: rights of all citizens of the several States and United States.

493
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,679
Speaker 3: My heart is so goody because like the idea of like,

494
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 3: how can we make sure juries are fair for a

495
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: bunch of black lawyers as sort of like is that

496
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,479
Speaker 3: jurisprudence right?

497
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: Is like, yeah, yeah, I barely know what that word means.

498
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be real.

499
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 3: Music text is PHONEX chaining.

500
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm looking up the world right now. And then

501
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: everyone can think that they're smarter than us if they

502
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: already know it is the philosophy or science of law

503
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: of law.

504
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: Okay, but that idea of like I mean really think

505
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 2: of like coming out of enslavement, practicing law, trying to

506
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 2: get your mind fully around like okay, you said land

507
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: with free but the clearly that was not true. Yeah,

508
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 2: we had to come and make our own organization to function,

509
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: and then trying to figure out, like how do we

510
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: make sure these laws and practices are actually fair and

511
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: accommodating for everyone. Yeah, it's such a beautiful like agenda

512
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: for an organization.

513
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: I know. And it's like it's kinder than they need

514
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: to be, right mm.

515
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: Hmm, like yes, as we frequently are.

516
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And they also weren't an all black organization

517
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: because they didn't discriminate based on race. They had one

518
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: white guy, and it came up really well because at

519
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: one point very few white lawyers wanted to join them,

520
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: basically sure, and so at one point one of them

521
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: is like arguing against segregation and I'm paraphrasing here, right,

522
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: and one of them is arguing against SegReg and the

523
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: other person's like, the white pro segregation person's like, yeah,

524
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: well you're like in a racially segregated organization, and they're like, no,

525
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: we've got Marty Popper's is the white guy. Look at

526
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: Marty over here.

527
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: This is okay, But I just want to say, if

528
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 2: you're in a group of black people trying to go

529
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,399
Speaker 2: up against any type of larger organization, that is the

530
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: rule of thumb. You need one Marty at all times.

531
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: Like I'm not even joking. I am a part of

532
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: multiples where like we don't have a white guy where

533
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: if people show up, we could be like, that's our

534
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 2: white guy and you can talk to him about it. Okay,

535
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 2: he is well versed, we trust him, he's good. You

536
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: always need one white man hanging around, just in case,

537
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 2: just in case.

538
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 3: I love it.

539
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, you need a Marty and just start calling

540
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: them a Marty.

541
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

542
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: And the NBA is still around. They have about eighty

543
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: chapters and sixty seven thousand members.

544
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: Wow.

545
00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but still in the early twentieth century, the biggest

546
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: bar association was the ABA and their very right wing

547
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: and some lawyers are like, we really got to do

548
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: something about that. Yeah, And so they started to do

549
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: something about it. And we can start exactly how they

550
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: started in any number of places, but I'm going to

551
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: start in another commonplace for our stories to start. I

552
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: love that there's these common roots right, and one of

553
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: them is like hmm, folks after Jim Crow being like,

554
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: fuck this, we got to do something and like, but

555
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: one of the other places that a ton of stories

556
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: about progressive and radical United States history starts is the

557
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: kid of Jewish immigrants.

558
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, I'll just tell you.

559
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: I come from on my mom's side, a fluent black family.

560
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: So they were at the first Juneteenth in Austin and Cheff.

561
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: My grandmother was mayor pro temp of her town. She

562
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: was like on multiple government boards going back, like my

563
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: great great great grandfather maybe four grades is the fourth

564
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: governor of Texas.

565
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: Whoa all my whole life.

566
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: All I've heard from that as like Black and Jewish

567
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: power together fix his things. And my grandmother believed that

568
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: with her whole heart, like constantly was partnering with Jewish

569
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: organizations within Chicago.

570
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: Like just that's beautiful. I love to hear it.

571
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: No, it comes up so often, and it's funny to

572
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: me because of there's a lot of stereotypes around Jewishness

573
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: and because I re leftist history, I'm like, ah, yeah,

574
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: they're all socialists, you know, that's.

575
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 3: Why they hate us. It's the politics, yes.

576
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: And so we have a man named Maurice Sugar who

577
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: was born in Upper Peninsula, Michigan in eighteen ninety one

578
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: to Jewish Lithuanian parents. And his parents owned a store

579
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: and they did well enough that they moved to Detroit,

580
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: and they were like, we want our kids have better

581
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: access to schools, so we're going to Detroit. He graduated

582
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: law school nineteen thirteen and it became a lawyer, and

583
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: it became a pacifist socialist. So when the US joined

584
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: World War One in nineteen seventeen, the US demanded that

585
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: all men between the ages of twenty one and thirty

586
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: sign up for the draft. And he was like, no,

587
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm not only am I gonna not do that. I'm

588
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: gonna fight it in court. That's my thing, right.

589
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 3: Yes, pacifist love it.

590
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he wrote essays saying basically, the thirteenth

591
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: Amendment says you can't be forced into involuntary servitude except

592
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: as punishment of a crime, and that should apply to

593
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: the draft, which is a strong argument. If you can't

594
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: be forced in involuntary servitude, I don't see why they

595
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: can make you do anything job wise. Yeah, he fought

596
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: against his own conscription in court appealing it every way

597
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: that he could, and he lost again and again, but

598
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: he didn't give up. And this is a thing also

599
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: that comes up a lot on the show is often

600
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: the way that you get things done is you fight

601
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: for things and lose and lose and lose and lose,

602
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: and then you either eventually win or like the people

603
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: who come like four after, you win because you fought

604
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: and lost and lost and lost and lost.

605
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: Fighting is a long term game, yea, which is the

606
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: thing folks listening should remember.

607
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, hm, And we have to kind of understand

608
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: that sometimes the wind condition is fighting, Like sometimes the

609
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: wind condition is being like I didn't go down without

610
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: suing the hell out of them or physically blocking. I

611
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: would never encourage anyone to do anything, you know, whatever people.

612
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 3: Whatever, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

613
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: I also I think a lot of times winning is,

614
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: to your point, just the ability to just stand ten

615
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: toes down and just be like, I'm not going to

616
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: be moved, and then changing the minds of folks, which

617
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: is less trackable and therefore is not as tangible to folks, but.

618
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: Totally, as we see it makes a huge difference.

619
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: Totally, and one of the ways that the ENLG is

620
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: going to kind of win. Is literally just a perseverance

621
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: and just be like there's so many times when the

622
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: energy was almost wiped out by government repression and like conflict,

623
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: and it just didn't. And so two weeks after World

624
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: War One ended, he was convicted to ten months in

625
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: prison for avoiding the draft.

626
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: Wow, but he did avoid it.

627
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally. I would probably rather sleep on a

628
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: cot in a jail cell for ten months than die

629
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: in World War One.

630
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

631
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: Did you see the kind of diseases they were coming

632
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: back with for World War One? And also the mass

633
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: horrific death and the invention of the flamethroaer. I'll need

634
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 2: to see battle. I'm good trench warfare. Yeah, hard pass, Yeah,

635
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: hard pass, I can like. And then you know, Pacifists

636
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: are gonna do the same thing. We're in World War two.

637
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: And I also, I'm just not into the draft. I

638
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: think it's a terrible thing.

639
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: But I also am like, you know, proud of my

640
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: grandfather for signing up and fighting in World War two

641
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: or really yeah, but like, oh yeah, but whatever. Anyway,

642
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: he goes to prison, he gets out, and he starts

643
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: working with the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union, who

644
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: are gonna kind of end up a little bit of

645
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 1: a villain for a while in this story because they

646
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't do great during the Red Scare, but overall trying

647
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: to do some good things.

648
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

649
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: He also joined the United Automobile Workers Union as a lawyer,

650
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: and he kept running for political office. He's never going

651
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: to win political office. But he also starts talking about

652
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: what if we had a bar association for progressive, liberal

653
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: and radical lawyers altogether.

654
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: That sounds real cool.

655
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, We're going to do a whole cool

656
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: people did cool stuff about a thing that came out

657
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: of that, and so we started traveling around the country

658
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty three being like, hey, we need to

659
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: have this thing because in nineteen thirty three another repeat

660
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 1: character on this show, Franklin D. Roosevelt, who mostly comes

661
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: out good but also did the Japanese Internment not so good.

662
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: That's okay there.

663
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: He wanted the New Deal, which is the closest to

664
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: socialism the US has ever gotten. Probably check out our

665
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: episodes about Francis Perkins, the lesbian who pushed FDR into

666
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: the New Deal for more about that. The New Deal

667
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: also hired my hobo grandfather to build infrastructure.

668
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 3: And I think that's nice, we love it.

669
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: But business leaders didn't want my hobo grandfather to have

670
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: a job building infrastructure for the United States of America. Crazy,

671
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: and they pretty much ran the ABA, the American Bar

672
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: Association at the time, So every single time the New

673
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: Deal wanted to do something good, there were ABA lawyers

674
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: fighting to make sure that it couldn't go through, and

675
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: not just being the lawyers on call to fight it,

676
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: but they were like basically doing think tank stuff where

677
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: they're like, what are the legal strategies we can use

678
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: to destroy the New Deal. The ABA was huge. It

679
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: represented about thirty thousand of the one hundred and eighty

680
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: thousand lawyers working in the US at the time, and

681
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: of course that specifically disincluded black lawyers and progressive lawyers.

682
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: So Maury's sugar. By nineteen thirty five, he meets up

683
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: with some lawyers in New York City and he is

684
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: an outline prepared of what a new Bar Association could

685
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: look like, including things like making sure that radical lawyers

686
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: weren't being isolated, because that happens a lot. Right, You

687
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: go and defend people and then they're like, well, you

688
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: don't got a job anymore, like fuck you, you know,

689
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: and also included building a united front against fascism was

690
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: explicitly part of his plan.

691
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 3: Beautiful.

692
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: And I couldn't tell you specifically that it was this

693
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: prompting that got the Nalgy together a year later, but

694
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: I think it was. And that's the inference in what

695
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: I have read. A lot of shit happened in this

696
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: world of ours in nineteen thirty six. That was one

697
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: of those years where just everything happens. The world was

698
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: hurtling towards World War two, fascism was on the rise.

699
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 1: FDR won reelection in a landslide, the third largest popular

700
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: vote victory in US history. It was like plus twenty

701
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: percent or twenty two percent or something. Yeah, as compared

702
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: to I think, Oh, I don't have the chart in

703
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: front of me, but I was looking at it. I

704
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 1: think the worst loss of the popular election was Trump

705
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: while still winning the election, you know, but the right

706
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: wing was making a comeback, and industry leader not with Trump.

707
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: But that's true too, But in nineteen thirty six, the

708
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: right wing is like starting to get it shit together

709
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: a little bit, and the industry leaders formed like the

710
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: liberty league, which I don't know enough about, but they're

711
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: basically trying to get together to like have a union

712
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: of bosses. Which is a thing that often comes up

713
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: is when they see that the workers get unions, they're like,

714
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: what about us? You know? And the other thing that happened.

715
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: One another thing that I ties together everything I ever

716
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: talked about on this show is that ads came up.

717
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, yeah, I got you.

718
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: He's jumped right out there.

719
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: I know, that's just what they do. And here they are.

720
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: And we're back.

721
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: Okay. The other thing that actually also is on almost

722
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: every episode of the show is that Spain had a

723
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: civil war. Ah, and I swear I'm not even shoehorning

724
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: it in. It's like literally an important part of the

725
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: Nalgy's history. So the Spanish Civil War, which I I

726
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: think I told the story recently on air. Also very recently,

727
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: I was at a cafe with a new friend and

728
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: then we were talking about, like they knew a lot

729
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: about the whole bunch of like really interesting radical history

730
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, it's a relase to the

731
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: Spanish Civil War, And they were like, I don't know

732
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: anything about that. Can you tell me about it. Uh oh,

733
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: and I'm.

734
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 3: Like Mircaret said, sit back.

735
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: No, I said, where are the hidden cameras? This is

736
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: a trap? No, But I think I literally told that

737
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: story like two weeks ago on this show. Sorry, everyone,

738
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell that story for way too long because

739
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: I think about it all the time. The Spanish Republic

740
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six was a very young democracy and

741
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: it was troubled. The left in Spain was primarily a narcosyndicalist,

742
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: which is basically like labor unions trying to make the

743
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: state and capitalism obsolete through organizations that are bottom up,

744
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: and this or that section of the country, like a

745
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: mining town would just like raise the red and black

746
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: flag and be like we're doing this now, and then

747
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: the republic would have to come in and be like,

748
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: you're actually not doing that. You're still part of the republic.

749
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: But at the same time, the anarcosynicalists and the Republican

750
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: government are particis pitting in this popular front model, which

751
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: is basically like all non fascists kind of need to

752
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: work together whenever there's fascism around, which is probably true,

753
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: just seems like it.

754
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, watch Steady Rise, We don't have time for infighting's yes,

755
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 2: we got to get aligned, not those guys.

756
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: I know, I look forward to getting back to the infighting.

757
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 2: That's glorious to have infighting when it's safe to do. Yeah,

758
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: it is currently not so safe.

759
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. The right wing in Spain was essentially fascist and

760
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: kept trying to overthrow the Republic, and a fascist named

761
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: Franco tried to stage a coup. The coup was stopped

762
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: by the combined response of basically the Republicans, like the

763
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: government and the anarcho synicalist working class. The coup failed,

764
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: so Franco invaded with an army and a war broke out.

765
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: Civil war. It should have been and so this is

766
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: how it ties in energy. It should have been a

767
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: no brainer for the Western democracies like France, the UK,

768
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: and the US to support the Spanish Republic. Their whole

769
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: thing is that they're trying not to have the entire

770
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: world fall to fascism, right, But their whole other thing

771
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: under that is they're also trying not to have the

772
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 1: whole world fall to communism. You know.

773
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 3: Oh, they hated it. They hated like people in charge.

774
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And even though the Spanish Republic is ostensibly

775
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,439
Speaker 1: in charge. At this point, they all chicken out the US,

776
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: the UK, and France, and they declare neutrality. And the

777
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: US passes a neutrality Act making it illegal to offer

778
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: material support to either side of the war, which means

779
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: it's illegal to support the Spanish Republic. So this didn't

780
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: stop tens of thousands of people, especially socialists of various types,

781
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: from making their way to Spain and joining in defense

782
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: of the Republic, but it sure stopped governments from providing

783
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: what's actually needed to win wars, like planes and bombs.

784
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: In the end, the.

785
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: Spanish Republic falls, Franco and fascism win the day. The

786
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 1: one thing I can say, though, is that the republicans

787
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: of all types in this case good republicans. I love

788
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: how meaningless political terms are. I love they know they

789
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: just of course I'm talking about When I'm talking about republic,

790
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Spanish Republic of nineteen thirty six.

791
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? What other kind of republican

792
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: would you be? Oh? An Irish Republican?

793
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 3: No?

794
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: And anyway, whatever, the terms are meaningless. Franco inherited a

795
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: country that was not ready to join the other fascist

796
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: countries in World War Two. It was wrecked, the population

797
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: was divided, it had just barely survived this war in

798
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: which tons of people died or fled. So he stayed

799
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: neutral in World War Two. And so even though the

800
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: Spanish Republicans loss, this gets to the point earlier about

801
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: winning by losing, they helped the later war effort against

802
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: the Nazis by crippling a fascist country. And the left

803
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: in general is to tie back to the energy. They

804
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: are not happy about this newtral thing. This is a

805
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: big political issue in the United States. Lawyers were trying

806
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: hard to fight against the Neutrality Act because we need

807
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: to stop fascism was a really big idea. So that's

808
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 1: another part of what starts the analgy. Then the Great

809
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: Depression is happening, and labor unions are gaining ground faster

810
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: than ever. A million people joined labor unions in nineteen

811
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: thirty six. Wow, that's so many people.

812
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: That's so many people.

813
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: Especially I don't I don't off the top of my head, no,

814
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 2: but I know popularly she was not anywhere near where

815
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: we're at now.

816
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: That's crazy, Yeah, I would guess. And I'm going to

817
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: refuse to look it up. I'm going to guess we

818
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: had about one hundred and some million people at the time. Yeah,

819
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: and a million people joined labor unions in nineteen thirty six,

820
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: and then millions more in the years to come. And

821
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: all of these unions need lawyers. So you have these

822
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,959
Speaker 1: three things coming together. And on December first, nineteen thirty six,

823
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: twenty five East Coast lawyers meet up in New York

824
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: City to discuss creating an alternative to the American Bar Association.

825
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: They have several things on their mind. A lot of

826
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: them are new dealers, and they're trying to get lawyers

827
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: to fight for new deal policies and stop the American

828
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: Bar Association from trying to, you know, do their thing. Also,

829
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: the new dealers were like, hey, also, a lot of

830
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: lawyers are out of work. It'd be pretty cool if

831
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: the government created jobs for us too, because.

832
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 3: We wouldn't mind being a little employment on our side.

833
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: To you guys, I know, one of the things that

834
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: they're later going to win is social security extensions for

835
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,760
Speaker 1: independent professionals like freelancers, like lawyers.

836
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: Listen, but speak of all the artists they I know,

837
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: it's such a view that's so beautiful.

838
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 1: It helps me directly I am a freelancer at my job.

839
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So, and then you also have the ACLU

840
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: representing labor union lawyers, and then there's people fighting for

841
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,040
Speaker 1: a popular fund against fascism and trying to get the

842
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: US to break the Neutrality Act. So they meet nineteen

843
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: thirty six and they're basically, the invitation is to create

844
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: an organization. It's for quote, all lawyers who regarded adjustments

845
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 1: to new conditions as more important than the veneration of precedent,

846
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: who recognize the importance of safeguarding and extending the rights

847
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: of workers and farmers, upon whom the welfare of the

848
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: entire nation depends of maintaining our civil rights and liberties

849
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: and our democratic institutions, which sounds like a little bit

850
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: like what we need right now too.

851
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 2: Again, I'm really liking the ideals of this place so far.

852
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: I can really I rock with the community aspects.

853
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 3: I rack with the protection Ye down a fascism.

854
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: Love it, No, I like, I have found only one

855
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: dark spot on their record, and I'll get to it

856
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: in a minute.

857
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 3: Wow, Oh, you are right.

858
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: And so at the meeting, they're like, all right, we're

859
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: going to call this shit the National Lawyer's guild and

860
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: it's going to be a voluntary bar association. And right

861
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: away there are chapters in Philly, d C. Saint Louis, Chicago, Boston, Detroit, Newark,

862
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: and New York. And they start with around twenty five

863
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 1: thousand members. They came out of the gate with a

864
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: press conference at which they read a piece called the

865
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: Call to American Lawyers, and I'm going to quote from it,

866
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: just I like the way that they talk about things. Quote.

867
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: The history of our nation is, to great extent, a

868
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 1: history of the leadership given by lawyers. In almost every

869
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: national crisis. When human rights were an issue, lawyers championed

870
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: the cause of liberty and justice. In recent times, however,

871
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: certain groups within the legal profession have done much to

872
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: block progress and befuddle the legislative progress. So they're subtweeting

873
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: the people who are blocking the new deal. Such activities,

874
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: although not aided or sanctioned by the greater number of lawyers,

875
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,919
Speaker 1: have served to bring the profession into public disrepute. Through

876
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: the National Lawyer's Guild, the overwhelming majority of American lawyers

877
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: now inarticulate will sound their collective voice, and so they're like,

878
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: it's sort of a union in a lot of ways, right,

879
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: we're like, oh, only a tiny minority. The like rich

880
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: white guys got to say everything.

881
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: You know.

882
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: They had their founding convention on February twentieth, nineteen thirty seven,

883
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: a senator and an assistant Attorney General, where like they're

884
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: talking shit on the American Bar Association for trying to

885
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: stop the New Deal, and they come out the gate saying,

886
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: regardless of race, gender, political ideology, people can join. Their

887
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: constitution opened, the National Lawyer's Guild aims to unite the

888
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 1: lawyers of America in a professional organization which shall function

889
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: as an effective social force in the service of people,

890
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,200
Speaker 1: to the end that human rights shall be regarded as

891
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: more sacred than property interests.

892
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,760
Speaker 3: Oh, I know, people were getting hot under their hats.

893
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: They said, more important than why yeah, I know, than

894
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 2: the business, you.

895
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 3: Know, a life.

896
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: I don't know about that. These radicals out here talk insults.

897
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: I also feel like we could copy paste and just

898
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: resend now, which is a little said. But also it's

899
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 2: nice to know the blueprints.

900
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's exactly as for how this

901
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: all went. Now that they've created the energy, all the

902
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: things they've done, including the one dark spot on the record.

903
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 1: That's my cliffhanger. We're going to get to that in

904
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: part two on Wednesday. How do you feel about the

905
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: NLG as the opening salvo of nineteen thirty seven.

906
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: Here's where I'm at so far. I think aspirationally, all

907
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: of their goals are lovely, like a, really, this is

908
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: easily an organization. I could be like, I would like

909
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: to align myself, take my dollars, like, let's support really

910
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: beautiful initial start. Now typically this point in the documentary,

911
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, what's the sinister underbelly of it? Who who's

912
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: trying to profit? What angle am I not seeing? So

913
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: I'm nervous that I'm excited.

914
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: Honestly, they the one bad thing they did was during

915
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: World War Two, and they okay, they like are kind

916
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: of all right, Like I e. There's like some stuff

917
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, I wouldn't have framed it the

918
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: same way that you framed it or whatever. And there's

919
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: like stuff that they're like aware of, right, like they're

920
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: constantly probably still you know, there's a lot of fights

921
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 1: that happened through their history about like hey, we need

922
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: to be a little bit less white of an organization,

923
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 1: and we need to like be a little bit less

924
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 1: like male dominative in organization and and stuff like that.

925
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 1: But like, this is gonna be one of those episodes

926
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 1: where I'm like again with the one caveat that you'll

927
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 1: get to hear next day on Wednesday, they didn't do good.

928
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 3: Like listen, if.

929
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: You show me ninety years of anything and it's got

930
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: one mark again, that's a whole success. I know here,

931
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: this is a long time to get potentially a lot wrong.

932
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 2: So I'm excited to learn about all of their good things.

933
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: Well, what if people want to hear about you or

934
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: do you have anything you want to plug?

935
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely go to X ray Vision podcast.

936
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, if you are looking for escapism but with

937
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 2: still a moral conscious, Okay, if you come find us,

938
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: we're gonna be talking about all of the great movies

939
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 2: coming out this summer.

940
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm talking. We got Superman.

941
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: I got interviews with James Gunn and the cast of Superman.

942
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: Pretty good movie, check it out. We talk sinners, We're

943
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 2: gonna be talking weapons when that comes out. But then

944
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: on top of that, we're doing things like Foundation, the

945
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,880
Speaker 2: Isaac Asimov adaptation on Apple TV Plus and Recovering Alien.

946
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 3: Earth this summer.

947
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 2: When it comes out in August, we'll be at San

948
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 2: Diego Comic Con. So I love this show. It's full

949
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: of really great, like warm hearted people and we're just

950
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 2: talking about nerdy shit. So if you're into that, you

951
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: can check out the x RA Vision podcast.

952
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to The Center's episode probably the next

953
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: time I drive anywhere, because.

954
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 2: Margaret, Yes, you're specifically gonna love this one. Jason conception

955
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 2: On is our host, and he does this really breathtaking

956
00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,839
Speaker 2: historical deep dive into Indigenous America and their correlations with

957
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 2: the Irish population and their they're battles against the state,

958
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: and it's a really fun conversation.

959
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 3: Definitely check it out.

960
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to be so interested. I loved how that

961
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 1: movie framed so many things and I don't want to

962
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: talk about it too much on the case people haven't

963
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: seen it yet, but like, if you haven't seen it,

964
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: people should go see this movie.

965
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely fucking go see this movie.

966
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: My mom is forty percent Irish and sixty percent black,

967
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: and I was deeply you know, a family came up

968
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: in the Mississippi migration.

969
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:32,720
Speaker 3: I was like, is this my story?

970
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: I was like, your story Blown Away, Blown Away, I

971
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: just love and like the way it talks about art,

972
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: like is just oh god, so impactful.

973
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 2: Like I saw that movie three times in theaters, and

974
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: during the big scene which you can live on spoil here,

975
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: I cried each time. I kept of waiting to not

976
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 2: be as affected, and I was just completely switch like beautiful.

977
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 3: Art, gorgeous.

978
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: The part that kind of got me near to you

979
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: is just literally some of the dancing scenes. Yeah, that's

980
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: a yeah, we'll just go with that. Yeah, and like yeah,

981
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: but also the way that they like successfully convey how

982
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: they care for each other, like the people you know anyway.

983
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: So yeah, as community, and then the total absolute dis

984
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: on Christianity at the end where.

985
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 3: I'm plow it away.

986
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: So anyway, all right, Well, people should go check out

987
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: that podcast and if you want to hear me talk

988
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: about sometimes history and sometimes current events and sometimes preparedness

989
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: and sometimes my day in life. I have a substack

990
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 1: Margaret Kildoy dot substack dot com. Almost all the posts

991
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: are free. The more personal ones are for paid subscribers,

992
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: but you can follow me there and I post pretty

993
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 1: much every week. I'm gonna go subscribe sweet, all right,

994
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: I'll see you all on Wednesday.

995
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 3: Cool People Who.

996
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of pool Zone Media.

997
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: The more podcasts and pool Zone Media, visit our website

998
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot

999
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: Com, or check us out on DApp, Apple Podcasts, or

1000
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts.