WEBVTT - Biden Set to Hit China EVs With Tariffs 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:10.840 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:15.040 Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.079 Eastern on Apple Car, playing Android Auto with the Bloomberg 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.440 Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.040 or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.360 Let's stay on the Ebie discussion. We can do that 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.840 with Steve Mann at Global Autos and Industrials research Channels 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.879 for Bloomberg Intelligence joining us from Princeton, Jersey. We got 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:35.760 a little camera down there, so that is an incentive 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:38.800 for the folks to stay in Princeton. I guess Steve Man. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.160 Don't get me started. Steve Man joins us though, Hey, Steve, 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.920 talk to us about I guess President Biden. We're talking 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:51.520 about tariffs on China evs and other strategic sectors. What's 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:52.200 going on there. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.000 It's not surprise that they're going to do that. In 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.600 terms of the impact on the Chinese automaker, obviously nothing 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.240 because they don't sell any vehicles to the US at 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.959 the moment. They have no plans to, you know, byd 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.440 actually explicitly said they have no plans to actually sell 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.720 cars in the US at the moment. The only impact 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.800 is really on the battery side. But I think what 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:22.479 the government is trying to do is really to protect 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.640 a lot of investments that's already been made to onshore 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.959 EV battery production. You know, through the Inflation Reduction Act, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.800 there's over one hundred billion dollars already spent on on 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:39.800 shoring EV battery and other supply chain components for evs 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.479 into the US. So I think, I think for automakers 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.680 there's no impact, but it's it's it seems like it's 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:51.440 more about posturing for for for the election later this year. 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.120 I have so many thoughts and feelings on this, but 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.320 I do think the timing is so interesting. So we 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.720 break the story on the day that Zeker is going 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.520 public in the US market. I don't know that that 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:05.480 feels you can buy stock of a China EV's company, 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:08.240 but you can't buy the China evy car. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.480 Uh. Is that weird to you? 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.840 Uh, It's probably a good option to have, I think. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:15.120 Uh. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.120 China EV sales is still growing relatively strong. I mean, 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.240 it's slower this year than last year, but it's it's 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.160 you know, it's it's no different than what Neil has done, 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.239 what x Punk and Lee Auto has done. All these 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.960 companies have listed in the US. I think for the 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.960 most part, the purpose of this listing is really to 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.200 build the brand Cachet. You know, they can actually say 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.760 that we're a US listed company that goes really well 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.920 with a lot of the Chinese consumer. So if you 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:48.919 look at some of the sales Neil sales, Lee Auto 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.919 and Xpunk sales after they listed in the US, they 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.680 actually jumped uh in their in their home home turf. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.160 I have to backtrack. I mean, you know, Alex is 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:00.640 way ahead of me on this. Can you tell me 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:02.680 what Zeker is for the It's the first time in 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.320 my life I've heard about the Zeker. It's a Chinese 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.480 manufactured electric car. Correct, that's right. 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:14.960 It's a premium evy maker. It actually comes competes with 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.920 the Tesla and the Neil Neils and they sell around 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.960 on average around the thirty seven forty dollars US dollars 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.400 per vehicle. It's part of Jili, the parent company of 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.600 the listed Jili Auto one seven five HK, So this 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.480 is part of the Jili. It's you know, a lot 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.520 of the actually a lot of the technology that Zeker 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:42.080 has is also part of Vovo they're head of R 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.400 and D is actually in Gothenburg, Sweden. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.120 All right, Just for the IPO folks out there, this 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.560 is a company. They priced their IPO last night at 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:51.720 twenty one dollars a share. We just got a spread 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.720 just popped up on my terminal. Bid twenty three, ask 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.120 is twenty five has not opened yet, that's where the 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.680 bid ass spread is. Won't keep you up to date 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.160 on that throughout the day. So again, a cool new 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.760 IPO out there, which is good Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.720 Bank of America and China International Capital Corporate the underrator, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.560 So some big time name supporting this company. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.880 What's interesting is that Glee, the parent company, said it's 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.880 indicated it will subscribe to more than ninety percent of 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:18.400 the stock. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.440 So yeah, so clearly that's still. 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.960 Wariness that exists in the EV market when that takes place. 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.520 Here is my deep question. It's not very deep, by 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:30.720 the way. If your goal is to. 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.479 Decarbonize the world as fast as possible, why would you 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.960 not flood the US market with the EV with cheap 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.000 China EV cars. And if that's not the goal, and 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.600 you want to green the economy, but also do it 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:43.960 profitably for US companies. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.359 That's okay. Just let's say that. I mean, is that? 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.120 Can I say that out loud? Can I say the 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.720 quiet part out loud? Steve? Does this make sense to you? 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:52.960 Yeah? 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.320 I mean I think you have a very legitimate question. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:01.000 But I think you know, with with the geop uh 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.239 wrangling between the two countries, uh, you know that that 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.279 that so you know this comes to play, right, you know, 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.400 do we flood the US? Do we protect the US industry? 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.280 I think I think especially during this year when there's 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:18.400 a lot of you know, to and fro on related 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.960 to the election, I think there's gonna be more and 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.599 more discussion around you know, do we let you know, 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:30.200 Chinese products come in for example, Evy batteries and solar panels. 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:34.279 So it's a very legitimate question. I think the government 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:35.320 will have to answer that for you. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:37.760 All right, Steve, thanks so much for joining US. Steve 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:40.760 Man Global Autos and Industrials Research Channels for Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.320 You know, Alex I was up in Boston yesterday meeting 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.799 with some of the really smart folks at BCG Boston 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:49.159 Consulting Group, and one of the folks I spoke to 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.960 was Ahead of their EVY consulting practice, and he acknowledged 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.560 that the industry you know, probably put out some inferior products, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.640 didn't price them. Well, there's a lot of you know, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.160 the kind of a bumpy start to send the ev business. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.200 But he says that being said, a lot of good 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.200 product is coming. Oh yeah, they're figuring out and they 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.160 will lower their cost structure. And he thinks ultimately, you know, 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.720 within a reasonable period of time, whether that's five years, 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.039 ten years, he thinks forty percent of the cars in 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.760 the US will be EV's. Oh interesting, So that's and 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.480 I've heard that number a little bit more frequently recently 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:22.120 because people are trying to make the sense we could 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.480 ever beat a one hundred percent EVS And I think 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.719 ultimately some people would like you to believe that, but 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.760 that may or may not happen. But I kind of 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.640 where they're coming from. They're kind of thinking about forty 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:33.640 percent within that you know, kind of ten ten year time. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.479 I want to think about the implications for electricity production, 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:39.200 the grid and balancing the grid. 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.000 You were talking to the right people, Yes, they need 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:43.520 more of it. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.680 And you want to know why utilities are some of 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:47.479 the best performing stocks in the SMP this year. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.120 I mean they're defensive names. Are they defensive anymore? 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.680 They're growth stocks now they have actual growth in their 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.239 business because of stuff like EV's. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:55.640 I have so many more thoughts. 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.720 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast to catch us 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.000 live weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.080 Androud Auto with a Bloomberg Business Act. You can also 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.360 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.760 station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.960 Joanne Shu joins us. She's University of Michigan Surveys of 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:20.000 Consumers Director. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.440 This is her numbers. She does the data. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.920 Joanne, can you just walk us through that decline of 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.240 US consumer sentiment right at a six month low? 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:29.440 Now? What let us here? 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.120 So it's not just the worst of both worlds. I 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:35.760 would say it's the worst on a number. It's worse 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.280 on a number of dimensions. Not only do consumers expect 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.680 inflation to rise a bit in the year ahead, but 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.320 they are also expecting unemployment to worsen, and they're also 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:53.440 expecting interest rates to rise, and so these are all 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.200 things that had kind of been in a holding pattern 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:00.280 for most of twenty twenty four, and suddenly in the 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.400 month of May, consumers are seeing a deterioration on all 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:04.360 of these dimensions. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:08.320 So JO just like to call out the magnitude here again, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.720 the consensus was seventy six point two for the University 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.560 Mission Sentiment Indicator seventy seven point two. Last period, it 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.880 came in its sixty seven point four and on an 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.400 order of magnitude, I don't remember seeing those types of 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:23.920 variances in the past. How unusual is this may reading 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:24.240 to you. 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.720 This is a statistically significant to decrease, but I wouldn't 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.800 call it a plummeting or a plunge. It definitely feels 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.480 like that because the last four months, you know, since January, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.800 we've been only seeing little wiggles of one two points 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.920 per month. Essentially, we've had no change for four months, 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.960 and prior to that we had two months of really 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.200 strong surges. So this is the first real downward movement 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:53.640 we've seen in quite a bit of time. So I 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.120 think it is jarring to people who watch the data, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:59.440 but it's not a plunge. It is a decline. It 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.680 is a signific can decline, but it's not a plunge. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.319 You mentioned that those surveyed are worried about interest rates, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.439 and they're worried the interest rates are going to rise. 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:10.000 Am I hearing that correctly, not that the Fed is 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.280 going to keep them steady or not cut, but they 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.160 expect higher interest rates. 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.560 Well, more people expect higher interest rates than last month. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:22.240 Fewer people expect interest rates to fall, so I believe 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.240 about only about a quarter of consumers expect interest rates 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.720 to fall in the year ahead. So overall, consumer expectations 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.080 over interest rates are worse than they were last month. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.200 Joanne, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.360 you hopping on there. Joinshew, Surveys of Consumers Director for 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.400 the University of Michigan. 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:47.800 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.520 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple, card Play and 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.560 Endroid Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.280 wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.040 You're having S and P just up by two tens 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.600 of one percent, so we're definitely off the highs, but still. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.160 Kim Forrest, founder and CIO Booth of Capital Partners joined us. Now, 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:11.160 Kim help me understand what's happening survey data, ism services, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.440 and if I be youmish pointing to things that are 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.600 not that good. Equity market still near record highs, corporate profits, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.040 high earnings holding up really really well. 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:22.840 What gives. 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:25.160 Well? 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.839 I would say that the investors are looking past this 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.840 information and they are planning for a longer time period 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:34.760 than the consumer. 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:35.800 We'll put it that way. 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:38.920 But does that mean that? So how do you trade 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:39.280 on that? 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.680 Like, do you trust the underlying data and say, look, 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.959 I mean the survey data and say, okay, maybe we're 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:46.960 going to hit some speed bumps, I mean, protect myself 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:47.200 for that. 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:48.480 Or do you say it. 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.520 Doesn't matter because these themes, even momentum and effect, a rotation. 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.480 Or AI, all of that just going to outweigh it. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.240 I think it's a little bit of both. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.320 First, I think that the con zoomer once again is 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.920 being shocked by things they do pretty much at least 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.600 once a week, if not more often, and that's fill 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.360 up their car or truck with gasoline. And the second 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.440 thing they do is go to the grocery store or 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.959 a restaurant and prices are just crazy. So everybody has 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.560 recency bias, and I believe strongly that food prices in 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.920 particular and gas are just you know, demoralizing. 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.120 Have you gone to the grocery store lately. I have? 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.480 It is you know, it's just it's crazy. 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.440 You just you can't believe the basket of groceries costs 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:41.480 that much, right, That's that's the first thing. And I 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:46.440 do think that we have great expectation, probably deservedly so, 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:50.800 although not on what I think Wall Street's timeline is 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.560 for AI to increase productivity. It's been a decade or 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:59.000 more since we've had something, a technology that we think 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.319 could deliver productivity, productivity in. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:03.320 A meaningful way. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:09.560 And I think that's what has captured investors imagination around AI. 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.079 And Kim, I was up at the Boston visiting the 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:17.880 Boston Consulting Group yesterday, and the senior consultants that are 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.559 you ask them what are your CEO clients asking you about? 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:26.800 And to a person AI, I mean, it's it's just amazing. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.440 So Kim, as an investor, and as you talk to 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:31.960 your clients and as you talk to other money managers, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.599 how do you suggest people really get a fundamental exposure 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:38.800 to AI? Did they just run out and hold their 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.760 nose of buying in video or how do you recommend 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:43.760 the investors kind of get some exposure here. 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:46.960 Well, there are going to be people that want to 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:50.360 own in Vidio because again I love the concept of 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.199 recency bias, like it's gone up a lot, so it 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.559 should keep going up, you know, forever and ever. And 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.640 I think that's true to some extent. But we are 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.760 probably probably going to hit a pothole where they miss 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.679 expectations and that's just because of the and I'm getting 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.000 in the weeds here, but go with me. The data 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.400 center build out, I don't care if it's for regular 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.640 data centers or AI. You reach a point at which 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.480 you stop spending and you use the technology you have 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.199 in a building for a while, and then you add more. 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:23.320 So we're at the beginning of the build out of AI, 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.720 so everybody wants to own in Nvidia. I think AMD 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.280 and Intel are fine companies that are going to be 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.800 able to participate in this, and they are going to 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.520 push in Vidia to probably sell their product at a 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:42.319 somewhat lower margin. And I think that both Intel a 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.079 AMD can play in this space. So those are some ideas. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.120 I also think people should look further and keep their 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.120 eye out for good software that is going to answer 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.440 some problems. And what I mean by that is that 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:00.840 it's not entertainment, only that you know, those CEOs would 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:06.120 want to buy it to enhance their productivity, and that 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.960 I think is the surest way to having a happy 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.880 portfolio in five to seven years. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.520 So huh, a new thing in five to seven years. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:15.719 And I'm going to ask you about the next two 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.880 and a half weeks. But we do get in video earnings. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.880 On May twenty second, I was talking to immobile servemen 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:23.440 of RBC. She runs all their derivative strategy, and she 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.480 was saying, this is the first time that they haven't 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:29.560 seen a lot of sentiment upside going into nvideo. There's 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.080 not the exuberants that we're used to seeing. What do 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.800 you think the mark how do you think the market's 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.520 going to react and take to in video's earnings? 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:40.960 Well, they're going. 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.480 To do it Wall Street does, which is overreact in 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.080 the short term whichever way that is, and then get 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.760 it right in the long term. I mean, I hate 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.880 to be so perfunctory about it, but that is the 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.680 last twenty five years of my life. Is you know, 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.000 you get that if it is higher than expected. You're 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.280 going to get a huge sugar rush upwards. It's a 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:03.480 little bit you're going to get a sell off because 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.440 there are people that are expecting this thing to just 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.640 keep marching up straight, you know that forty five degree 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:10.480 angle to the right. 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:10.880 Right. 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.440 But I don't think you should give up hope. This 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.720 is just what markets do in the short term. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:22.960 So you mentioned AMD and Intel, what else? What other 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.200 stocks you like to play this trend? You mentioned Synopsis 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.480 SNPs is the ticker. 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:29.400 What's that company? 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:36.000 Well, it's for people that design chips and we're going 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.440 to need not just the AI chips, but to get 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.400 real productivity, we're going to have to have armies of 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.600 Internet of things and those will be robots, those will 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.360 be sensors, and they're all going to be talking to 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.760 back to the main computer and have the main computer 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:53.640 tell them what to. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.800 Do, or at least gather that information. So there are 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:57.400 going to have to. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:01.960 Be more chips made and improvements to chips made. So 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:07.120 that is how Synopsids benefits is from companies having to 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:12.360 buy additional licenses or additional capabilities to its products. So 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.760 I'm a strong believer. There's another company called Cadence. They 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.320 are also in the same area, but we like Synopsis 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.479 because of its breadth of product offerings. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.720 What about What do you make of the consumer space? 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.720 Do you like anything in the consumer space? The read 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.440 through from earnings has been really confusing, like Starbucks and 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.360 McDonald's warning on the consumer, but then Dutch Bros. Just 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:39.680 crushed it yesterday. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:40.440 What are we learning? 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:42.720 We're learning we. 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:46.400 Have a very picky consumer, as we should, right, I mean, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.120 I'm a picky consumer. I'm thinking you're a picky consumer. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:51.800 I might get an eye roll on this one, but 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.200 I really love companies like Urban Outfitters that know that 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:02.240 they can satisfy this really picky base of a customer set. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.199 They're not trying to sell product to everybody. They know 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.359 who their consumer is and they have been through the 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.280 decades able to delight and surprise this consumer, to get 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.080 her to open her wallet. And it is a her 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.680 in their case, to get to open the wallet and 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.320 to spend for the new looks. And I think you 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:24.920 need to know you don't want to you don't want 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:29.400 to buy mass marketing. You want to buy narrow, niche 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.720 kind of products that companies that do it well. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.879 So interesting it's like a very different story than just 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:36.840 even a few years ago. 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:40.119 Right, So what other? Yeah, go ahead. 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:41.199 Yeah. 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.080 I think that they do well in any kind of 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:49.680 market because they have this small consume, small consumer base 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.680 that has money and they want to look fresh and new, 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.200 and that is what their secret is. They keep inventing 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.400 and finding those designers and finding those shapes we don't 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:01.200 have in our closet. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.080 Do you do you shop at Urban Outfitters? 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:05.199 Not really. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:07.040 I'm kind of a hipnie, but not that much of 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:08.800 a hippie, but I get what they. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:09.520 Do, you know. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:11.119 Yeah, I know. 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.840 I was like, you're extending this into a fashion discussion, 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:14.840 you know, Yeah, and. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:15.760 Yeah, we do that. 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:16.480 We do that. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.320 I've known Kim for a long time and inevitably the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.160 end of our interview always goes to fashion. We've had 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.480 this like hope and dream that one day we'll actually 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.120 go shopping in New York together, but that has yet 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:26.800 to materialize. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.320 Yes, Oh my gosh, I can't wait. 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.000 Come on, I'm across two from Bloomingdale's. We' hit the 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.840 sales sample stores. Okay, Kim, I'll let you go get 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.240 back to your real job. Kim Forrest, founder and CIO 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.000 a Boca Capital Partners standing by. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:45.160 You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.280 weekdays at ten am Eastern on Apple car Play and 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.200 Android Auto with a Bloomberg Business Act. You can also 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.760 listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.879 Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.120 Here's super interesting report that came out earlier in the week. 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.880 You know the story, right, the great resignation. People left 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:12.760 jobs during COVID, they got new jobs. Worker satisfaction isn't great, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:17.320 particularly among women, and yet is the grass greener. It's 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.679 something that if you ever contemplated leaving your job for 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.639 something else, you constantly think about, are there problems that 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.680 are at every workplace? Or am I the problem and 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.000 I'm bringing it with me? Well, now we may have 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.879 some answers to this. Alan Swire is principal researcher of 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.199 Human capital over at the Conference Board, and they had 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.920 a survey out that said the workers who jumped CHIP 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.200 during COVID are now regretting it. Alan, thanks for coming. 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.480 This is great. I love this story. Can you walk 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:44.560 us through your findings? 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:46.120 Yeah? 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.879 Sure, So that one specifically was a big surprise to 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.200 us because just last year when we ran the survey 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:56.520 or twenty two, I should say, it was completely opposite 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.600 to what we found this time. Measure of job satisfaction 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.760 was up amongst those who switched jobs, but this year, 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:10.600 overall job satisfaction was down by over five percentage points, 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.280 and it was down across most of the twenty six 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.480 components of satisfaction that we measure, so a big swing. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.560 We think we agree with your summary that you know, 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:24.080 sometimes the grass isn't necessarily greener on the other side, 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.720 and could be for a range of factors that this 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.120 is happening, But we definitely see that this year those 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.200 who have switched jobs during the pandemic are less satisfied 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.159 than those who stayed. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.440 Do we know what was the primary reason people did 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:43.600 switch jobs during the pandemic was any different than other times, 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.119 which is, you know, maybe higher pay or just a 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:46.959