1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: On August twenty fourth, nineteen ninety four, sixteen year old 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: New Orleans native Eric Brown spent the night at his 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: friend Carmelo's apartment along with some mutual friends. Early the 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: next morning, Eric drove home in Carmelo's car, which wouldn't 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: have seemed out of the ordinary until one of their 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: mutual friends reported that Carmelo had fatally shot and that 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: his safe had been stolen. In addition, she told police 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: that Eric was still there when she left for work, 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: implying that he and he alone had the opportunity. Then 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: the missing safe was discovered near the home of two 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: other mutual friends, who also implicated Eric, sending him away 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. But this is wrongful conviction. 13 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: Wrongful conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison, 14 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 2: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us 15 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: at eight three three two oh seven four six sixty 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: six and tell us how these stories make you feel 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: and what you've done to help the cause, even if 18 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,639 Speaker 2: it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing 19 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 2: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 2: a future episode. Call Us eight three three two oh 21 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: seven four. 22 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: Six sixty six. Welcome back to wrongful conviction for yet 23 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: another case out of Louisiana, this time involving a child 24 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: tried as an adult, convicted by a non unanimous jury 25 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: verdict in a state that wasn't and isn't to this day, 26 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: trying to hide the direct connection and the transition from 27 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: plantation to penitentiary. And the man who's so somehow survived 28 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: this harrowing ordeal is joining us today, Eric Brown, thank 29 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: you for being here and sharing your story with me today. 30 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: Thank you, Veram. 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 1: Would you say all that's accurate? 32 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Prison is a big business, especially in Louisiana. As 33 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: one of the sheriffs said, they called prisons their honey holes. 34 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: When Louisiana told these full profit prison facilities that if 35 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 3: they build their prison in Louisiana, they would give them 36 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 3: tax breaks, etc. And they will guarantee that they would 37 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: keep their bids eighty five to ninety percent field to capacity. 38 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 3: How do you make a guarantee like that if you're 39 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: not infringed upon people's rights. 40 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: Those non unanimous jury verdicts have wrecked havoc in Louisiana 41 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: since the era of reconstruction, all the way until twenty eighteen. 42 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: Or even later. 43 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: I believe that now unanimous Jewry vertical law was only 44 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 3: enacted in the eighteen hundreds explicitly assided to perpetuate Slater. 45 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 3: Louisiana and Oregan was the only two states out there 46 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: union that allowed this. 47 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: And we're glad to finally have that law off the books. 48 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: I mean, all a prosecutor would need to do was 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 1: eliminate enough black jurors to make a conviction and near certainty, 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, with what the fact it's still an all 51 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: white jury, and that hadn't changed much even as late 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: as nineteen ninety four when Eric was just a sixteen 53 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: year old kid. 54 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: Well, I'm a native of New Orleans. We stayed in 55 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 3: various different parts of New Orleans, across the river, Kenner, 56 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 3: Jefferson Parish, et cetera, et cetera. My upbringing was pretty moderate. 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 3: I had a father in my life taught me the 58 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: essence and the definition of a man. Taught me about 59 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: having principles and morals and honor, dignity, integrity, keeping your word. 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: I had a great mother, she's still with us today. 61 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: They did their best to raise me right. However, as 62 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: kids become mischievous, sometimes I had an incident when I 63 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 3: was thirteen years old. Three years prior to this crime, 64 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 3: there was a guy that was shooting dice and I 65 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 3: want his jet come to find out. He went home 66 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 3: and told his daddy, who was a police officer, that 67 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: I robbed him for his jacket, and they arrested me 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 3: for armed robbery. So they made a big scene, came 69 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 3: arrested me in front the whole school and everything. And 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: my dad had just bought me one of those staughter jacks, 71 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 3: so I had enough brand new and so it was 72 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 3: no need for me to rob. They searched my home, 73 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: didn't find any gun, didn't find any weapons. I got 74 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: adjudicated for armed robbery. They gave me six years probation. 75 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: So when I come home, you know our officers are 76 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 3: they they have this pride about themselves. Whether he believed 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 3: the son or whether he knew the truth, I was 78 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: public in him. A number one my brothers, they had 79 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 3: run INDs with officers as well, went to prison. So 80 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 3: I guess it was like he's going to follow in 81 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,679 Speaker 3: their footstep, He's going to be the same way, etcetera, etcetera. 82 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 3: One of those officers that arrested me in that case, 83 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: was one of the lead investigators in this case. 84 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: In addition, at the time of the crime, Eric had 85 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: begun selling weed for a guy named Carmelo Salmonin, who 86 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: it turned out was the grandson of a well connected 87 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: organized crime boss named Carlos Marcello, and Carmelo, the grandson, 88 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: became the victim in this case. 89 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: He was a good few years older than me, pretty 90 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 3: much meant to a mutual friend. He was looking for 91 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 3: a way to supply we the things of the nature 92 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: into the neighborhood, and so a lot of people knew 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: me and respected me in the neighborhood, so he recruited me. 94 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: That's why I said, kids could be mischievous sometimes, but 95 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 3: that don't lead to the capital punishment, you know what 96 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 3: I mean. 97 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: So Carmelo and Eric sold weed together along with a 98 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: young lady named Valencia Peabody and two brothers, Charles Pitts 99 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: who was also sixteen years old and William Griffin who 100 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: was a little over eighteen, and their group were all 101 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: at Carmelo's house on the faithful night of August twenty fourth, 102 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. 103 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 3: It's something that we've done many times with smoke weed, 104 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 3: get high and pass out. And then in that morning 105 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: I get up and lead. It was a normal thing. 106 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 3: And when I do lead, I take the vehicle, I 107 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: go drop off things of that nature. And so it 108 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 3: was real early when I left. Hours later, I wake 109 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 3: up my sister's coming and talking about hey man, the 110 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 3: police looking for you to talk about Carmelo's dead, this, 111 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 3: and then like what. 112 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: At this point, on August twenty fifth, police had already 113 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: spoken to a neighbor named Ruth McKennis, who told them 114 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: that she hadn't seen or heard anything, as well as 115 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: Valencia Peabody, who had alleged that Eric and the car 116 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: were still at Carmelo's when she left for work, but 117 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: when she returned on her lunch break, she allegedly discovered 118 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: Carmelo's body, saw that Carmelo's car and the safe were gone, 119 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: and called the police. 120 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 3: She just started saying my name automatically. Every did everything 121 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: like what Me and Camello. We never had augument, We 122 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 3: didn't have a disagreement, We didn't have a falling out 123 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 3: of anything, she said. She came home from work, she 124 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 3: said she noticed the top lock of the bottom lock 125 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: was unlocked up like that. Then she said she noticed 126 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 3: something about the sliding glass door was opened or whatever. 127 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: So she said, she's calling his name, she don't hear anything. 128 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: She goes up the stairs, gets in the bed with him, 129 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: and then that's when she notices blood coming out of 130 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 3: his head, his ears and stuff like that. Right, However, 131 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: when you look at the photographs that the police took 132 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 3: of the crime scene, you're gonna see blood splat on 133 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 3: the headboard, you gonna see blood all over the pillow. 134 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: How does she get in the bed when photographs of 135 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 3: the crime scene gruesomely shoes what's going on? We're standing 136 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: at that door. 137 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: Valencia, Peabody's supervisor at work, also said that he hadn't 138 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: seen her that morning, but the police were unaware of 139 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: that detail or any of the other holes in Valencia's 140 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: story when they went and arrested Eric and began looking 141 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: for the murder weapon and Carmelo's missing safe. 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: Because of this guy's connections, who is grandfather or whatever 143 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: the bloodline was with them, law enforcement shook down that 144 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 3: whole area. While I'm in jail, people telling me, man, 145 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 3: they're all in the sewers, drain dumpsters and stuff like 146 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: that looking for the safe and things that you mentioned 147 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: right now. There's two other guys. They're two brothers. One 148 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: was a juvenile Charles Pitts and the other one was 149 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: an adult William Griffin. So they found his safe in 150 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: the dumbster in front one of those guys house. There 151 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: are two brothers. Guy said he got the safe from me. 152 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: At some point, for some unknown reason, the police reinterviewed 153 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: the neighbor, Ruth McKennis. 154 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: Ruth McKinney's has the IQ of sixty, equivalent to a 155 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: six year old child, so on the scene, she said 156 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: she didn't see anything, didn't hear anything. Two weeks later, 157 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 3: after talking with Valencia Peabody, all of a sudden, she 158 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 3: mysteriously remembers me coming out of the apartment. As later 159 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: they don't know me from Adam and Eve. I don't 160 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: know her. All of a sudden, now she knows me. 161 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 3: But the whole collusion was those two guys in Valencia Peabody. 162 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: And we're not sure if the police recognized Valencia's potential 163 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: involvement or how convenient it was that Ruth McKennis had 164 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: a sudden realization. But something certainly seems off with how 165 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: they so readily accepted pitt and Griffin's explanation for the safe. 166 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: The William Griffin guy. He said in the statement, bro, 167 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 3: I'm just saying what y'all want me to say to 168 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 3: get out of here. So then they said, well, look 169 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 3: we need you to take the sting. Like what you mean? 170 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: I already said what you wanted me to say? You saying, 171 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 3: did Eric did? He say? 172 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, never mind how the sausage was made. 173 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: They had four people implicating Eric, who awaited trial for 174 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 1: nearly two long years in jail, and. 175 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: I couldn't afford the attorney. I had to go with 176 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 3: the state attorney, which is just a prosecutor and defense 177 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: attorney clothing. He kept trying to get me to take 178 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: thirty years forty years, and I'm like, I'm not taking 179 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 3: her thirty years or now forty year for something I 180 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 3: didn't do. 181 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, as Eric said, his older brother was already in prison. 182 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: He had been convicted of armed robbery, a crime he 183 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: actually did commit, and he reached out with some advice. 184 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: It was a blessing and occurse to actually have a 185 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 3: brother that was inside the institution. He already knew what 186 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 3: the fight was going to be for me, so he 187 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 3: was the right middle in the jail, say error, go 188 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 3: to the law library, read this case. Go read this case, 189 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: go read that. Go shepherdize this sort to teach me 190 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: about what shepherdized me with different legal turnsment, I've been 191 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 3: studying law even before my conviction, because the first motion 192 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 3: that I filed my motion for a bond reduction. When 193 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 3: they first arrested me, they had me on the first 194 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: degree murder, so you don't have a bond, but we 195 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 3: don't have no murder weapon like witnesses. We don't have 196 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 3: to nate, no powder, burn, no fingerprints. So there was like, well, 197 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 3: we got to reduce the charge to second degree murder. 198 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: Then now they had to give me a bond. So 199 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 3: the DA said, okay, a million for the murder and 200 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 3: five hundred thouars for the own rap. So he tried 201 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 3: to set a bond at one point five million dollars. 202 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 3: So what the judge did was he said, well, I'm 203 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: not even going to hit his motion and I'm not 204 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 3: even going to set the bond because mister Brown has 205 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: an attorney and his attorney was supposed to file this. 206 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: So I'm like, obviously, why havn't my attorney filed this yet? 207 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 3: For me. 208 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: It appears he was just too busy communicating plea deals 209 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: for thirty to forty years rather than building a defense 210 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: like investigating Valencia Peabody. 211 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 3: I had my attorney so peanup her record and they 212 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: said that hell supervisor never even seen it at work 213 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 3: all that day. So requested to have the supervisor come 214 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: take the stand. They had the manager come, like what 215 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 3: you're sitting in The manager is the supervisor that's in 216 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 3: this report, and the manager wasn't able to provide us 217 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 3: with any information. 218 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: Peabody's alibi appears just as shady as Ruth mckinnis's memory 219 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: of who she said she saw that morning. 220 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 3: Now, at the Motion for Discovery, they tell her do 221 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 3: not come in this courtroom until we call you. So 222 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 3: I'm sitting in an orange jumpsuit with all the other prisoners. 223 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: She came into that courtroom three times when they looked 224 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 3: in the box. So finally when they called for it 225 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 3: to stand, my atturny asked her, do you see the 226 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 3: person that you claim that you've seen coming out of 227 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 3: the house. So she's looking around and still couldn't identify. She's, oh, yeah, 228 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: that's him right there. I see him. My Atturny asks, well, 229 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 3: is this the first time you seen him since that? 230 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 3: She said yeah, She said, now you sure that's what 231 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 3: you want? To continue with that statement, didn't we tell 232 00:11:58,559 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 3: you not to come in here? And didn't you come 233 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 3: in three times prior to you get on his stand? 234 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: It seems like she was trying to figure out who 235 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: to identify, since she didn't appear to be too familiar 236 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: with what Eric actually looked like. Nevertheless, Eric Brown was 237 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: taking a trial for second degree murder in April of 238 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six. 239 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 3: Once Day syduced to charge the second degree murdered, it 240 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 3: was easier for the prosecutor to convict me because now 241 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 3: he don't have to present those of it. He could 242 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: just present a theory. And whoever does the best magic 243 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: trick in court is going to win. And you see 244 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: who I got as attorney repositional, he's a bad magician. 245 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: He's not going to perform well. 246 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: But when the autopsy evidence was presented that Carmelo had 247 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: in fact been shot in the back of the head 248 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 1: at very close range, from two to five inches away, 249 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: Eric's attorney did point out that Carmelo was laying on 250 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: his side facing the wall near the opposite side of 251 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: a king sized mattress from where the shooter must have 252 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: been standing. While Eric, who stood five foot one one 253 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: at the time, okay, he did not have the reach 254 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: to get within too the five inches of Carmelo's head 255 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: without leaning onto the mattress, potentially alerting Carmelo. 256 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: So he was kind of making a valid point on that. 257 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 3: But when he was saying that, the DA literally jumped 258 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: on top of the desk in front of me. Put 259 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: your finger in my head, mister Brown, put your finger 260 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 3: to my head like trying to get me to show that, oh, 261 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 3: I could reach this fall. But yet he wasn't in 262 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 3: the actual range and the bed is a king sized bed. 263 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 3: It wasn't making sense. And that was another thing that 264 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 3: there was no powder burns on me on my clothing, 265 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 3: the same clothing that Blinsa said she seen me in 266 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: that day, with the same clothes that they arrested me in. 267 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: Which brings us to our star witness, Valencia Peabody and 268 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: another performance from the DA. 269 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 3: He showed her photograph of father way then nearer and 270 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 3: then closer, and every time he did this, he said, 271 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: you identify this picture here, and she was like, yeah, 272 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 3: that's him. I almost I don't see them more. So 273 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 3: that was just cue. Then he showed another one, and 274 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 3: then he showed another. She literally jumped up out the chair, 275 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: not the chair, over in front the whole entire court 276 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: room and ran out the courtroom hollering a scream and 277 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: how to get out of here? My trial was who 278 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 3: put on the best performance? 279 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: And it didn't stop with to Lindsaya Peabody. They brought 280 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: in an assault rifle that had been pulled from a 281 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: lake that didn't appear to have any relevance or connection 282 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: to this case at all. 283 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 3: This particular assault rifle, it was so rusty they couldn't 284 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: check the serial numbers and anything to see that. It 285 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: was just even actually camellous because he owned all kind 286 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: of guns. So when they found this particular weapon in 287 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: the water, to us a story saad a mother and 288 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 3: a child was walking to the child almost stepped on 289 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 3: the gun. But they already concluded that it's not the 290 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 3: word of weapons. So it's like, what is this weapon 291 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 3: even being presented for? But just to inflame the jury. 292 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: Yet not all the theatrics played out so well. Since 293 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: William griff had appeared to have given his statement under duress. 294 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: The only one they could put on the stand was 295 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: the juvenile Charles Pitts. 296 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: Charles Pitts, I told the people that he got the 297 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: safe from me in nineteen ninety five. So that was 298 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 3: impossible because I had been in court for Rader since 299 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety four. And so then the DA realized, like, 300 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 3: hold on, man, that's not looking good for his case. 301 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: So the DA he got up and scared him and 302 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 3: it was not at Ford did you say? Nine at 303 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: fod Oh, I got it in ninety four. So he 304 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 3: prompt him into saying he's seen the safe over in 305 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: my police over the midy Times. 306 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: But the safe was stolen on the exact same day 307 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: that Eric was arrested. 308 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 3: The same day, just a few hours later. Not only that, 309 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: he said that I gave it to him so he 310 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 3: could collect baseball cars. But my attorney didn't properly a 311 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 3: fully cross examiner. 312 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: Now, perhaps since Pitts and the DA had embarrassed themselves 313 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: so effectively and thoroughly with this exchange, he felt like 314 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: he didn't even have to, even though he probably should 315 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: have pointed out the glaring inconsistency to the jury, let 316 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: alone that Pitts's explanation didn't effectively deflect playing away from 317 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: him and his brother, and then Eric's attorney once again 318 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: failed to point out how Ruth mckinnis had changed her 319 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: story from her original statement to say that she had 320 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: seen you leaving the house. But what sticks out even 321 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: more than the inconsistency's improvable falsehoods was that fabricated as 322 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: it was, no one went so far as to definitively 323 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: say that you were the assailant. 324 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 3: Nobody that took the stand really gave any type of 325 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 3: factual evidence to put me there at the time of 326 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 3: the murder or to say that they seen me do 327 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: the murder. And the DA told the jury, we don't 328 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 3: have no other physical evidence against mister Brown. But y'all 329 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 3: got to use common sense, Like I wish I could 330 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: add some more stuff and highten it up and make 331 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: it seem more But the reality of it is to 332 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 3: show you how the lack of evidence they have, man, 333 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 3: they could still throw you away for the rest of 334 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: your life or something that they knew you didn't do. 335 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 3: If I would have been in any other state in America, 336 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 3: I never would have been convicted. It was two jurors 337 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: that found me not guilty and no word of weapon, 338 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 3: no eyewitnesses, no DNA, no fingerprints, and two juris found 339 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 3: me not guilty to get out still sentence to life 340 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 3: of our parole plus thirty years at sixteen years old. 341 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can listen to 342 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week 343 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good 344 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts. 345 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 3: Just getting on that bus, shackled up on that bus, 346 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 3: it had to have those hot jumpsuits on in the 347 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 3: middle of summer like that. It was so hot, man, 348 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 3: it was packed in like sardines on their bus because 349 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 3: everybody that shallowed up is money for them. They had 350 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: us working in the field in over one hundred plus 351 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 3: degree heat, whether the horses was falling out or the 352 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 3: horses are shaking. Gun gard because you had gun guards 353 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 3: where they had to sit on the horse back with 354 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: guns and they called it the gun line. If you 355 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 3: go outside their gun line, they'll shoot you. And now 356 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: the only you think of a complete year prior to 357 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 3: me going to Angola, they shot and killed my brother 358 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 3: in front of Angola, shot him in the bat. We'll 359 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 3: never really know the full truth of what happened. They 360 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 3: say he tried to escape. So there was a saying 361 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: throughout the institution, if you're black, you don't come back. 362 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 3: So if a white guy escapes, they bring him back. 363 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 3: If a black guy escapes, they kill him. Immediately when 364 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 3: I got there, people started like hearing my name. It 365 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 3: was like, hold up, man, that was your brothers that 366 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 3: they killed. Man, And so a lot of people was 367 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 3: messed up about that. That was inside, even some of 368 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 3: the guards. You gotta remember a golda with me. When 369 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 3: I got there. It was considered by National headline news 370 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: the blood is prison in America at that time. So 371 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 3: you couldn't just go there and just be happy, go lucky, 372 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: he or you couldn't just go there and just be 373 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 3: a key. I had to grow up fast. So I 374 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 3: had to conduct myself in a certain manner to earn 375 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 3: my respect in that place. And so by doing that, 376 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 3: some people they observed me, and they've seen that, and 377 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 3: they gravitated toward like, man, if I can help you, 378 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: look man, he bro no, this is information or this 379 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 3: is how you get to the law libarial And so 380 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 3: from day one, I just started reading just reading law. 381 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 3: Just reading it might sound corny in it, but studying 382 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 3: law and educate myself is what kept me sane throughout 383 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: them whole nine and twenty five days. 384 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: After relying on state appoint to the Pellet Council, his 385 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: initial appeals were denied, and now he began to apply 386 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: what he'd been learning in the law library, leading to 387 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: the discovery of a great deal of the state's witnesses 388 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: provably inconsistent statements. 389 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 3: I found out that the prosecutor allowed witnesses to take 390 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 3: the stand and say something other than what they said 391 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 3: in their original statements. And if I would have had 392 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 3: that information, I would have been able to properly cross 393 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 3: examine them and show the jury that they lied. What 394 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: they're saying shouldn't be taken at. Some of it I 395 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 3: tried to present on my own because I had no help, 396 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 3: no attorneys, so I had to present it on my own, 397 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 3: and they refused me a right to a hearing. 398 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: Eric was relentless in his pursuit of freedom, but he 399 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 1: was thwarted by procedural issues and time bars, which kept 400 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: the full weight of his innocence claim from ever being heard. 401 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: Were talking twenty five years of filing and everything wasn't 402 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: discovered at one time because I didn't have money for 403 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: investigators all the time. So I used to do some time. 404 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 3: I used to do free work for attorneys and they'll 405 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 3: lend me some help with an investigator, things that nature 406 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 3: to give me able to look. I'll get my investigator 407 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 3: or help you out for a few hours or something 408 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 3: like that, right for free, and I'll prepare a brief 409 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 3: or do some research for one of the attorneys and 410 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 3: things that I nature. So one hand washed the other. 411 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 3: So they'll help me out like that, And that's what 412 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 3: really started getting me attention. That's what really started getting 413 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 3: a lot of support when people saw how dedicated I 414 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: was to my case. They saw how motivated and driven 415 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,679 Speaker 3: I was to help other prisoners. Once I learned something 416 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 3: about the law, even if this information can't help me 417 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 3: per se, I wanted to at least try to help 418 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 3: somebody else that I feel is wrongfully convicted, because you 419 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,159 Speaker 3: meet a lot of people, man, and I'm working in 420 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 3: the law library at this time, and I'm seeing a 421 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 3: lot of cases that you could clearly see that, man, 422 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 3: this guy didn't do this. 423 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: Eric's involvement in the law library also helped him build community. 424 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 3: There was a few guys in there that was juveniles 425 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 3: as well, so we decided to come together and start 426 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: a club called the Youth Development Program to start helping 427 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 3: the juveniles who were wrongfully incarcerated or if there was 428 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 3: properly incarcerated still to try to help us educate ourselves 429 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 3: and just become better people. From there, I got involved 430 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: with the Life's Association. From there, I got involved with 431 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 3: the Angola Special Civics Project. From there, I got involved 432 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 3: with Toast Masters public Speaking that became the president of 433 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 3: toast Masters, became the Secretary of Life this organization. I 434 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 3: got involved with the CPR team teaching life saving skills 435 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: to the prison population. So with doing that, they had 436 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 3: other organizations. We used to have what you call functions. 437 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 3: A bank was where we were allowed to invite people 438 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: from society to come in to these functions and share 439 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 3: with information that we were trying to share with them. 440 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: It was Eric's community with other juveniles, his knowledge of 441 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: the law and their cases, as well as this connection 442 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: to like minded folks on the outside that eventually brought 443 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: him into contact with none other than Brian Stevenson. And 444 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: if you're not aware. Brian and other attorneys across the 445 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: country sought out cases in which children have been tried 446 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: and sentenced as adults. We brought that all the way 447 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: to the US Supreme Court with the aim of proving 448 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: that the sentences constituted a violation of our Eighth Amendment 449 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: protections against cruel and unusual punishment. The first of what 450 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: ended up being landmarks Godis decisions was Roper versus Simmons 451 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, in which the death penalty 452 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: for juveniles was found to be unconstitutional. But the quest 453 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: to attack juvenile over sentencing didn't stop there. They just 454 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: had to find the right cases first. 455 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,479 Speaker 3: So Brian Stevens said, I want to talk to you 456 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 3: guys about the strategy that I have with this and 457 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: what we need to do. So I figured out how 458 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 3: to get him inside the institution. I figured out to 459 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 3: get everybody that was under the age of eighteen, and 460 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 3: there was hundreds of us inside the institution. I got 461 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: all them into the visitor shared area, which we call 462 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 3: the A building and the GOOLDA. I got hundreds of 463 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 3: those guys in there. I got all their names when 464 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 3: they able to cast the rate, how old they were 465 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 3: what they charges were. I got all of them in 466 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 3: there so Brian Stevens could come and speak with us 467 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 3: and disseminate his strategy to us. And he told us 468 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 3: he have to separate it. If we try to present 469 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 3: it as a whole, you're going to lose. So he 470 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 3: figured out the way. He said he's going to push 471 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 3: for peagibility for juveniles who didn't commit a homicide. For 472 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 3: non homicide juveniles. It was the Gram case. 473 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: So he prevailed on Graham versus Florida in twenty ten, 474 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: juveniles could not receive life without parole in non homicide cases. 475 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: Then in twenty twelve, Supreme Court the United States ruled 476 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: in Miller versus Alabama the same for homa site cases 477 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: as well. Brian Stevenson and was able to chip away 478 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,439 Speaker 1: at a great deal of conviction, setting so many like 479 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: Eric on a path to re sentencing from a living 480 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: death sentence imposed on them when they were just children. 481 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: And it was all predicated on an argument that you've 482 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: heard me repeatedly make on this show. 483 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: I think it was the Roper case. We were saying 484 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 3: about the pre frontel cortex or the front a little 485 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 3: bit of brain is not fully developed. Until the age 486 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 3: of twenty five, and therefore a child is more prone 487 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: to act out instead of thinking before they act. So 488 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 3: with that said, when they said that they couldn't kill 489 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 3: someone who's mentally disable because of that reason, then the 490 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 3: same reason must apply that you can't give them a 491 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: virtual death sentence by giving them life. For the oparole, 492 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 3: children will grow and develop and change. It won't be 493 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 3: the same as chiev as child will meet you or not. 494 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 3: Are not the same achieving child that we were coming 495 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 3: up and growing up because we've we've grown now. And 496 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 3: so mister Brian Stevenson prevailed and so I was just 497 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 3: blessed and thankful to have that opportunity to get him 498 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 3: inside the institution. And he told me this, he said, 499 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 3: I've been to many institutions throughout this country. He said, 500 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 3: you have this facility here, the best organized out of 501 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: all of them that I've been going. And I really 502 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: appreciate your help. I said, man, it's an honor to 503 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 3: be able to do that for somebody like that. And 504 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 3: then he went on to win these cases for us, 505 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 3: and that helped open the door to get me home today. 506 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 3: So much love and respect for mister Brian Stevens, you 507 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: finally got this opportunity man to have some type of 508 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: relief from this life, since that's when they had this 509 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: thing about parole as ability and things of that nature day 510 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 3: and people saw dollar signs. And now we're trying to 511 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 3: say that the Miller verse Alabama's not retroactive. So we're 512 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 3: about to get into another argument in a fight about 513 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 3: something that we already wanted. So that go back up 514 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 3: there and prove to them that Mill was ritually active 515 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 3: and show you how shist didy are because Toka was 516 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 3: up there first. Toka was actually innocent. The state didn't 517 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 3: want the US Supreme Court to be ruling on the 518 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 3: case that put the rail road and took the life 519 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 3: of a fifteen sixteen year old child and rail roaded 520 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,479 Speaker 3: into prison. That would looked bad on them. 521 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: Eric is referring to George Toka, whose case we've covered 522 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: here and we're gonna link to it in the episode 523 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: description check it out. But the US Supreme Court had 524 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: actually chosen Eric's friends, George George Toka his case for Sergeierrari, 525 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: but to keep this extremely sympathetic case out of the 526 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: Supreme Court, the da Leon Conezzaro offered George a plea 527 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: deal which amounted to being released that day, and George 528 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: reluctantly accepted freedom over the justice he richly deserved. 529 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 3: So they took the Montgomery case, a guy who was 530 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 3: convicted of killing a cop. So they wanted the worst 531 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 3: case scenario to go up there and for the us 532 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 3: of priso, So they were just doing that's so dirty, man. 533 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: Even with taking the Montgomery case to the Supreme Court, 534 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: Skotis still ruled that. And I'm paraphrasing here, Yes, U assholes, 535 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: it is retroactive. I guess you're just gonna have to 536 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: re sentence and release a sizable chunk of your free labor. 537 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: For so Louisiana was forced to make a path to 538 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: freedom for Eric and so many others to be re 539 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: sentenced and come home. 540 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 3: In another case, State versus Sugaski, it stated that the 541 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 3: law in effick of the time of the crime and 542 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 3: Louisiana always prevailed. That's been a president for one hundred 543 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 3: years in Louisiana. However, when I was arrested, there was 544 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 3: no such thing as preregibility on life sentences, So you 545 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 3: can't give me parole eligibility on a life since what 546 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 3: you're supposed to do is amend your charge and it 547 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 3: resentence you under the next lesson responsibility, which is in 548 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 3: my case, would have been manslaughter, which they knew that 549 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 3: I was completed the maximum sentence on it, so I 550 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,439 Speaker 3: would have been released with no parole anything. That's not 551 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: what they wanted. They wanted to have some type of 552 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 3: rope around my neck. It was a strategy all alone. 553 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 3: Plus they get paid off parole fees, etc. Etc. So 554 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 3: they compelled everybody to go up under this new law 555 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 3: with the pegibility. So they make the laws and did 556 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 3: he break their own laws at the same time. 557 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: Fuckery aside. Now, Eric finally faced the parole board as 558 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: an innocent man who should have never been asked about 559 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: guilt or innocence. Instead, they were supposed to focus on 560 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: all of his many accomplishments on the inside, which was 561 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: respected by all but one parole board member. 562 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 3: So he said, well, I want to know why he 563 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,959 Speaker 3: did it. So my lawyer objected, she got involved. So 564 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 3: this is what he said. You're right, this is the law. 565 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 3: He don't have to answer that on this board, he said, 566 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 3: But if he don't, he might not like my route. 567 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 3: So he threatened me a little bit, and me being 568 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 3: who I am, It's like, man, I already knew I'm 569 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 3: not about to admit to somebody didn't do so I 570 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 3: just politely scooted my chair and I looked him in 571 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 3: his eyes and I said, Sir, I didn't commit this crime. 572 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 3: And I told him just like that, I didn't do 573 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,959 Speaker 3: this crime. If you look at the evidence, it's going 574 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: to show you that I didn't commit this crime. I said. However, 575 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 3: that does not mean that I don't sympathize with the 576 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 3: victim family, because members of my family too have been 577 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 3: victimized by since the violence. My hog goes out to them, 578 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 3: but no, I didn't care. They loved one. 579 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: Eric was finally released on August twenty six, twenty nineteen, 580 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: exactly twenty five years from his arrest nine thousand, one 581 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five days. 582 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 3: Once they granted me the parole, my family had been 583 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 3: out here in Texas since Hurricane Katrina, and so they 584 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 3: were like, hey, man, come stay out here. And I 585 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: get to hug my eighty four year old mother without 586 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: being in no change between those balls, and I get 587 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 3: to take her out to dinner and we get our 588 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: favorite meals, our New Orleans style seafood, gumboll pool boys 589 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 3: and shrimp stuff like that, man, And to see the 590 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: smile on that lady face, to see her baby boy 591 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 3: made it home alive and free. That's the best thing 592 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 3: I could ask for. My father was there for me 593 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: until he passed away, but he never would come visit 594 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: me because he said he never want to see his 595 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: child locked up like a animal. But he excepted my 596 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 3: phone calls and put money on my books, you know, 597 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: helped me out any way that I can. But I 598 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 3: was a child when I went in that place, and 599 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: so for him not to see the man that I've 600 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 3: become the day because of his teachings and his principles 601 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 3: and morals, that's kind of like a hurt and feeling. 602 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 3: But I do appreciate the fact that I do have 603 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: a mother that's still alive and she sees what I'm 604 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 3: doing today, you know, because I have so many friends 605 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 3: their mothers passed away that they they're not able to 606 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 3: do what I'm able to do today. And so man, 607 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 3: I just cherish every moment of it, and they live 608 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 3: vicariously through me by seeing me do that. 609 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: A lot of the guys that Eric is talking about 610 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: are men who we profiled here, Vincent Simmons, Sullivan, Walter, 611 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: George Toka, and many of these guys we saw at 612 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty three Innostance Network conference in Arizona, where 613 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: we met Eric in person for the very first time. 614 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 3: Last time I seeing those guys. We all were incarcerated, 615 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 3: trying to figure out how we was going to prove 616 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 3: our innocence and get out of that place, right and 617 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: then here it is man. The Innocence Conference was held 618 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 3: in Phoenix, and Jason we were like, hey, Man, come 619 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 3: on out, I said, man, And that was my first 620 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 3: time reuniting with those guys in the outside world. Man. 621 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: That was a self speechless. 622 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: But release on parole is not going to be the 623 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: end of Eric story. 624 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 3: As of right now, have an attorney. You're still pushing 625 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 3: about the ten to two issue with the fifteen hundred 626 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 3: of us that was wrong full incarcerated, with the nine 627 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 3: anima uri verdicts. We're still fighting for the retroactivity of debt. 628 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 3: So now we're trying to use that evidence that I 629 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 3: discovered that was Brady material about the prosecutor allowed witnesses 630 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 3: to say something other than what they said in their 631 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 3: original statements, and it's compounded with the fact that two 632 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 3: Jewis found me not guilty. And so that's what we're 633 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 3: pushing for right now, hoping that soon down the line 634 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 3: that we'll get some justice, which you'll afford me an 635 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: opportunity to go back to try and fully get exonerated. 636 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: Amen to that. And in the meantime, I understand you've 637 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: got a bunch of creative projects in the works. 638 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 3: Well, right now, I'm trying to get this documentary off 639 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 3: the ground, man, twenty five days. I've been looking for 640 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 3: more support on that for some editors. I wrote a 641 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 3: book called Crimes for Dummies, The Embarrassing Side of Crime 642 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 3: and Punishment. That book is completed. I also have a 643 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 3: curriculum called Crimes for Dummies, The Embarrassing Side of Crime 644 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 3: and Punishment for young dummies all the way up to 645 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 3: old Foods to learn from this book. And then I 646 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 3: have my memoirs and my autobiography that I'm about to 647 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 3: get done. So if anybody wants to help me with that, man, 648 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: I'm open to that too. 649 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: Man. 650 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: I appreciate any support I can get with that. 651 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, And we're going to link to Eric's instagram in 652 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: the episode of description as well, so people can reach 653 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: out to him or just follow for updates on the many, 654 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 1: many different irons he's got in the fire. And with 655 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: that we go to closing arguments, where I'm just going 656 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: to turn my microphone off and kick back in my 657 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: chair with my headphones on and listen, there's anything else 658 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: you want to share it with me and our wonderful audience. 659 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 3: The last thing I really want to say is that 660 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 3: I understand the need and the purpose for prisons and 661 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 3: things of the nature that for law and order. I 662 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 3: have an aid for you, mother. I wouldnt want nobody 663 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 3: to buy lead up, so I understand that completely. But 664 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: room for convictions is a is a disease. It's only 665 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: because of people like you, Jason, the Innocent's Project that 666 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 3: is starting to get more and more exposure that it 667 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 3: really deserves to let people know that this could happen 668 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 3: to you as well. Don't think that or it never 669 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 3: happened to you. No, it can't happen to you, white 670 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 3: or black. And in conclusion, I just want to say this, 671 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 3: the experience of imprisonment would undo a lifetime of learning. 672 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 3: Human values can be suspended, human concepts will be challenged 673 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 3: in the most ugliest of basic pathological side of human 674 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 3: nature can surface. So I just want to say to 675 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 3: the guys, my comrades who've been exonerated, man, don't allow 676 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 3: what happened to us in our past to bring to 677 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 3: the worst out of us. User to bring the best 678 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 3: out of us and show society that he Man. We 679 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 3: was in that place, but we wasn't of that place. 680 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: We could come out here and we could function that 681 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 3: we could be assets in our liability to society. 682 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can 683 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 684 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava 685 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank 686 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: our production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well 687 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and 688 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: Jeff Cleiburn. The music in this production was supplied by 689 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to 690 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for 691 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me 692 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm Wrongful Conviction is the 693 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with Signal 694 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: Company Number one