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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contained spoilers for Spider Man Across the

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Speaker 1: Spider Verse in theaters now go see it, plus some

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Speaker 1: MCU Spider spoilers. Hello, my name is Jason can Stepsi

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Speaker 1: and I'm Rosy Night and welcome next Revision, the Crooked

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Speaker 1: Media podcast where we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies,

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Speaker 1: comics of pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode, on the Airlock, it's a spider bag,

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Speaker 2: a spider male bag bag them and tag I'm the

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Speaker 2: Bombastic bag Man.

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Speaker 3: We're here.

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Speaker 2: We here to answer your spider questions. Omnibus, Jason's doing

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Speaker 2: a delightful deep dive discussing Spider Man twenty ninety nine,

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Speaker 2: and in the Hive Mind it's an interview with Nick

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Speaker 2: ash Shukla, the writer on the New Spider Man India comic.

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Speaker 2: So if you're a fan of pav In Across the

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Speaker 2: Spider Verse, make sure to listen to that one.

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Speaker 4: Coming up.

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Speaker 1: Your questions, Rosie, do you feel that it's our spider

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Speaker 1: sense is tingling and we're stepping out of the airlock

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Speaker 1: to some very very dangerous Spider Man themed mailbag questions

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Speaker 1: straight from the nefarious laboratories of Alchemax.

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Speaker 4: Question one from Dewan.

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Speaker 1: What's your favorite oh shit or well damned Peter Parker

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Speaker 1: Spider Man comic moment? One of mine is when May

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Speaker 1: was shot in Peter rolled in jail and humiliated the Kingpin.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's good. What's yours?

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Speaker 2: Mine is probably this is like less of Peter being

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Speaker 2: a bad ass, because that's not really how I see him.

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Speaker 3: But it did make me say, oh shit.

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Speaker 2: Is when Peter is really broke so he tries to

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Speaker 2: join the Fantastic Four because he wants to get a paycheck.

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Speaker 3: That's like one of the funniest.

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Speaker 2: Peter Parker moments in comics in my opinion, and I

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Speaker 2: think about.

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Speaker 3: It a lot.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so my original answer, this is the real answer,

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Speaker 1: and it's not that cool, but it's the answer that

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Speaker 1: like twelve year old me would give, and that is

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Speaker 1: black suit Peter Parker Spider Man crawling out of the

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Speaker 1: grave in Craven's Last Hunt. Oh now, Craven's Last Hunt.

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Speaker 1: Incredible art by Mike Zeck. Does the story hold up?

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Speaker 1: I would say kind of.

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Speaker 4: Not really.

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Speaker 1: It's not my favorite Spider Man story, but at the

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Speaker 1: time everything about it just floored me, including that like

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Speaker 1: iconic cover where you know, Craven is like searching throughout

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Speaker 1: his hunting lodge, you know for Spider Man, and Spider

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Speaker 1: Man's like in the ceiling rafters like looking down at him,

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Speaker 1: Like I remember looking at that on the Spinneract and being,

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Speaker 1: holy shit, I gotta get that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's definitely one of those most influential story ocs.

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Speaker 2: I think, even like you said, no matter how it

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Speaker 2: holds up, I think a lot of us like that

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Speaker 2: was a Spider Man story that we always remember.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this is going to be a unoriginal answer,

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Speaker 1: but it's you know, this early Steve Ditgo. They've retcon

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Speaker 1: this moment so many times, both in shows and in

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Speaker 1: other iterations of Spider Man comics, but it's that moment

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Speaker 1: where he doesn't really know how strong he is yet

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Speaker 1: early in the days of Spider Man. Right, this weight

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Speaker 1: of like all this like rubble and stuff has collapsed

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Speaker 1: and it's fallen down on him.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's such a great panel.

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Speaker 1: You see this moment in the Spider Man movie, you

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Speaker 1: see it in other things, and water is filling up

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Speaker 1: the space and like the concrete is crushing him and

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Speaker 1: it's like pushing him down and he doesn't know if

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Speaker 1: he's gonna make it, and he's thinking, oh god, I

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Speaker 1: just might give up. I can't do it, and then

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Speaker 1: he finds the strength somewhere inside of himself to be like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to escape.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to push all this stuff off me.

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Speaker 1: And that is just such an iconic Spider Man moment

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Speaker 1: because Peter Parker figured it out on his own.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, the X Men all have a school,

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Speaker 2: Tony has billions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: Tony has billions of dollars. They all do regular training

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Speaker 1: at the mansion. Like Daredevil got ninja training and boxing

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Speaker 1: training from his dad. Peter Berger had none of that.

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Speaker 1: He did like one amateur wrestling match and then was

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Speaker 1: a superhero. So this is him really understanding how strong

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Speaker 1: he is for the first time and letting loose.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's just an iconic Spider Man moment that has

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Speaker 1: been recreated again and again and again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And that panel is like still just as powerful

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Speaker 2: every time you see it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Just to add to this in case you didn't know

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Speaker 2: about this ridiculous after Jason gave that incredibly good, sincere

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Speaker 2: coherent answer, here is more of my chaotic facts about

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Speaker 2: why this works, sure, so it happened. In the first

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Speaker 2: issue of Amazing Spider Man, Peter goes to try and

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Speaker 2: join this Fantastic Four because he needs a paycheck, right

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Speaker 2: and they say no. But the issue I was actually

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Speaker 2: thinking of is number one, what if Spider Man joined

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Speaker 2: the Fantastic Four where they say yes? And because of this,

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Speaker 2: because they let him into the group because he is broke,

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Speaker 2: Sue ends up leaving Reed to go and be with

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Speaker 2: the submarner nay More and ends up like dating him

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Speaker 2: and finding solace in his arms because she gets left

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Speaker 2: behind him favor of Peter. So that is another oh

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Speaker 2: shit moment. Peter joining the Fantastic Four because he's broke

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Speaker 2: leads to Sue cheating on read just iconic stuff. I

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Speaker 2: love that weird shit, And for me Spider Man, I'm

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Speaker 2: always just here to laugh about how he's broke. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: those two moments are really great. Jason Joshua asks lots

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Speaker 2: of discourse on how people are divided, on how they

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Speaker 2: feel about how most of the Spider Force in across

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Speaker 2: the Spider Verse react to the canon events and accepting

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Speaker 2: that they need to happen. We'd love to hear Jason

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Speaker 2: and Rosy's thoughts on this. Is it acceptable or out

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Speaker 2: of characters for the Spiders or do we just chalk

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Speaker 2: it up to the right as poking fun at how

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Speaker 2: the comics editor's office won't seem to let Peter grow.

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Speaker 1: I think what makes that movie so good is that

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Speaker 1: everybody has a point.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's a great, great conflict. Like I think

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Speaker 1: we all would disagree with Miguel Spiderman twenty.

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Speaker 4: Ninety nine's tactics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think it's also fair to say that

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Speaker 1: keeping to the cannon in a multiverse sense has kept

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Speaker 1: a lot of bad slash chaotic time stream events from

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Speaker 1: happening like he's I think also clearly held the universe together.

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Speaker 1: And to speak more to that, the Spider Force, the

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Speaker 1: Spider Society, all of these Spider people that are helping

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Speaker 1: the girl, they are all the heroes of their dimension

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Speaker 1: and they look at McGall and go, this guy's right.

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Speaker 1: So clearly there is something there that is worth doing.

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Speaker 1: And what's so perfect about the conflict is that from

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Speaker 1: Miles's perspective, now knowing what the outcome is going to be,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing that flips it. If you knew Uncle

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Speaker 1: Ben or police captain close to Spider Man was going

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Speaker 1: to die, you know, much like Uncle Ben's words. You know,

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Speaker 1: then you have the responsibility to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: But looking from the you know, multiversal fifty thousand foot

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Speaker 1: view where the hero doesn't know and the Spider society

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Speaker 1: do know, and you're just letting events take their course.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they have a point as well.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's why it's a great story is

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Speaker 1: because you can see that both sides have an authentic perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, I absolutely agree with you.

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Speaker 2: And I think the other thing about it is it

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Speaker 2: plays into that ultimate moral ethical question, which is like

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Speaker 2: the good of the many versus the good of the few. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Like if you could save the life of your loved one,

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Speaker 2: but it would kill an entire universe, what would you do?

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Speaker 2: And that is the position that Miguel puts people in,

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Speaker 2: with the binary choice he's asking them to make. I

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Speaker 2: also think Joshua makes a great point here where he

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Speaker 2: says the thing about the writers kind of poking fun

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Speaker 2: at how comics editors won't let Peter grow, you know,

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Speaker 2: things like Peter can't stay married, but he can't get divorced,

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Speaker 2: so he has to make a deal with Mephisto. I

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Speaker 2: think that Josh makes a great point. I don't necessarily

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Speaker 2: know if it's poking fun at I think it is

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Speaker 2: done in a tongue in cheap way, but I do

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Speaker 2: think has Kemp Powers said on our show, I do

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Speaker 2: think that it is a acknowledgement of how Canon can

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Speaker 2: force writers and creatives and characters to be put through

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Speaker 2: the same kind of stories again and again and again.

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Speaker 2: You know, we did a chat with Nick Kesh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: talking about how the original Spider Man India was basically

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Speaker 2: them redoing the Uncle Ben origin story, but in India

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Speaker 2: with this new character Pav And that's really interesting because

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Speaker 2: again somebody else has to die. Somebody else has to die.

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Speaker 2: So I think it's a really smart, cool way of

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Speaker 2: building in a conversation with your audience as well as

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Speaker 2: an interesting conflict that we're going to have conversations about

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Speaker 2: this for years, because it does play into these big

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Speaker 2: moral and ethical questions about being a hero and what

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Speaker 2: that really means. Nobody can say Miles is wrong, but

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Speaker 2: you also can't say that the Spider Society doesn't have

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Speaker 2: a point when you see what happens in Pav's universe

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Speaker 2: where this you know, black hole into the multiverse opens up.

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Speaker 1: Nobody can say that. Jack w asks which Disney MCU

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Speaker 1: care do you think will next appear in Tom Holan

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Speaker 1: live action Spider Man movies and ek Spider Man four

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Speaker 1: could be more street based, and since they tease Daredevil's

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Speaker 1: run in No Way Home, it seems like the obvious

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Speaker 1: choice any dark horses on your mind's rosy any thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I think Jack is absolutely right, and I think the

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Speaker 1: cash in our conversation is absolute right.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be more of a street level og

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Speaker 4: experience Spider Man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. My gut says, Look, this isn't

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Speaker 2: fully MCU. But I also think we could see Miles.

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Speaker 2: That's always been my thought about Spider Man four. You

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Speaker 2: set it up so you have Peter as a street

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Speaker 2: level hero, Spider Man gains more of that reputation, and

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Speaker 2: near the end you meet Miles, and you set it

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Speaker 2: up so that rather than Peter being dead, people just

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Speaker 2: don't know Peter ever existed, and then you can have

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Speaker 2: that mentorship. So I wouldn't be surprised to see a

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Speaker 2: little Miles cameo a live action Miles cameo. But I

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Speaker 2: think you're right. I think any dead evil characters are

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Speaker 2: up for play. I think that we could see someone

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Speaker 2: like Kate Bishop Hawkay. I feel like that is a

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Speaker 2: very natural space.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that would be cool.

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Speaker 2: And she didn't know Peter Parker before, so you can

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Speaker 2: also establish a world where she does know him. Does

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Speaker 2: the spell keep going though? Does any time anyone learns

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Speaker 2: that he's Peter Parker they forget? I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's like an ongoing, like Invisible Life of Addie LaRue

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Speaker 2: type spell, But I think a Kate Bishop Porkeye, someone

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Speaker 2: young and fun could be like that Kamala and Peter.

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Speaker 3: That could be really great.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's a good one.

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Speaker 3: I would like to see it.

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Speaker 2: Also, we know that they like to take things from

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Speaker 2: Miles's comic and kind of transplant them onto Tom Holland,

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Speaker 2: and Miles and Kamala have an ongoing friendship, so those

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Speaker 2: would be the ones. I think that street level vibe

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Speaker 2: with maybe a few young kids. And let's be real,

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Speaker 2: I mean, Kamala is only a like, she's not very

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Speaker 2: far from New York City, so that to me really

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Speaker 2: seems like the most obvious choice.

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Speaker 1: What about you, Gosh, taking a king from you. I

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Speaker 1: think it can make a lot of sense to see

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Speaker 1: that kingpin.

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Speaker 3: Oh god, I'd love to see it.

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Speaker 1: Kind of an examination of the underlying organized crime forces

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Speaker 1: in New York City. I know that, you know, Born

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Speaker 1: Again is probably going to delve into that greatly. We

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Speaker 1: haven't really seen anything like that on the big screen.

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Speaker 1: It's been kind of, you know, much much larger scale

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Speaker 1: threats than that Venom has been teased. So what about

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Speaker 1: some sort of symbiote battle.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: I think the Symbia suit could be a big call

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Speaker 2: for four.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What if the Symbia crawls over some big, muscle bound

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Speaker 1: guy who already has a problem with Peter Parker And

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Speaker 1: now all of a sudden you've got a built in antagonist.

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Speaker 1: And then we've done the Green Goblin. What about the

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Speaker 1: hob Goblin? M what about the hob I.

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Speaker 3: Just want to say, I've talked about this a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, there is a version of the

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Speaker 2: world where a certain Ned.

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Speaker 4: Leads, and so I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Is the Hobgoblin. I would love to see it.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to Jacob Alin about that before he plays Ned.

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Speaker 2: I've said, like, is that something you would want to do?

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Speaker 2: Imagine that friendship at torn apart, you know, Spider Man

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Speaker 2: three style, the emotion, that would be extremely cool. Okay,

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Speaker 2: what about this? What do you think the reality?

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Speaker 3: You know, something I.

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Speaker 2: Love about she Yock and that I loved about Hawkeye

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Speaker 2: was that they reintroduced the dead evil characters in like

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Speaker 2: a slightly new tone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you imagine a world where we could see the

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Speaker 2: MCU Netflix Punisher join the MCU again but in Spider Man.

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Speaker 1: I think we could see it mm hmm. But of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, for one, the character has been, through no

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Speaker 1: fault of anyone's politicized by the fact that the Thin

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Speaker 1: Blue Line movement has co opted the Punisher skull as

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Speaker 1: like one of their pieces of iconography. I feel like

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Speaker 1: this iteration of Disney, or really any iteration of Disney

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Speaker 1: would be like, we don't need it. It's not like

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Speaker 1: he's a major well, I mean, the people that like

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Speaker 1: the Punisher, it's like a religion. Yeah, it's like licorice,

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Speaker 1: you know, like, not a lot of people like the Punisher,

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Speaker 1: but those who like it, like really really like it.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that there's a way to do

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Speaker 1: it you make the more of like a special forces

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Speaker 1: guy and it maybe not so much like a vigilante.

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Speaker 1: He was just like guns people down. And they've done

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Speaker 1: that in the comics A little bit X did that,

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Speaker 1: and Civil War did that where it's like the Punisher

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Speaker 1: was involved and all the heroes were like, this guy's

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Speaker 1: working with this. This guy's like a fucking mass murderer. But

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Speaker 1: the stuff that he did was kind of like splinter

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Speaker 1: Cell type activities where he's like sneaking into the Baxter

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Speaker 1: building and.

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Speaker 4: Stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: So I think that there's a world in which they

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Speaker 1: could do it, but I think they would have to

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Speaker 1: necessarily tone it down. There's a guy in a country

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Speaker 1: racked by gun violence.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Here is a guy who unapologetically just like guns mafia

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Speaker 1: dudes down in their hundreds like all the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I actually just saw so John Burnhallpe is coming back

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Speaker 2: in Dead Devil Born Again, So that could be our

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Speaker 2: place where they reimagine him, because I feel like, if

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Speaker 2: you're gonna put him back into the MCU, the version

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Speaker 2: they did in the Marvel Netflix show.

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Speaker 3: Was so dark.

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Speaker 4: It was incredibly dark.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna have to put him in a Spandex costume

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Speaker 2: and have him with like a paintball gun, Like you're

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Speaker 2: really gonna have to go the other way with it.

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Speaker 4: And I will say I kind of liked it.

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Speaker 2: I get why they did it, but it doesn't fit

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Speaker 2: into the Spider Man of it.

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Speaker 1: All that said, I think that there is a way

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Speaker 1: because you know, again, like Maral, comics is made up

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Speaker 1: of characters with different tones, like oftentimes when Frank Castle

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Speaker 1: gets in a room with Spider Man or whoever, they're.

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Speaker 4: Just roasting the guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I think that there is

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Speaker 1: a world where he becomes, while still a very very

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Speaker 1: dangerous individual, the butt of a lot of jokes.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that could be fun. I think that that is

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Speaker 2: a really fun, interesting way to do it. You make

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Speaker 2: him the butt of the jokes and you take away

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Speaker 2: the seriousness that he's been afforded by certain groups. I

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Speaker 2: think that could be very good. Chauncey asks, it's controversial,

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Speaker 2: but I like it. Which was the better series, nineties

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Speaker 2: X Men animated series or nineties Spider Man animated series.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listen, they're both really really good. But the

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Speaker 1: nineties X Men was iconic, and part of it is

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Speaker 1: that it had a great theme. It was taking incredible,

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Speaker 1: already legendary arcs from the X Men comics and like

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Speaker 1: boiling them down into really really punchy, half hour animated episodes.

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Speaker 1: And it had so much more interpersonal drama because you

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Speaker 1: have this big team of heroes. It was just better.

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Speaker 1: And this is no shots to anybody who likes the

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Speaker 1: animated Spider Man, because we're.

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Speaker 2: Fair and balanced here. I'm going to make the argument

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Speaker 2: for the nineties Spider Man. I agree with everything you

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Speaker 2: just said. I do believe that the X Men cartoon

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Speaker 2: is iconic. I love the way that it takes those

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Speaker 2: iconic classic arcs and truncates them and makes them accessible.

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Speaker 2: I will say I do rewatch the Spider Man show more,

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Speaker 2: and it is because of that same device that they use.

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Speaker 2: You can watch that Spider Man show and you can

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Speaker 2: find out the origin of any supervillain. You want to

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Speaker 2: find out what happened to Venom, you can watch that

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Speaker 2: story on there. You want to see this character, you

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Speaker 2: can do it in the tradition of Spider Man as well. Wow,

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Speaker 2: there are so many good villains in that show, Like

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Speaker 2: every out there weird villain is around. So I will

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Speaker 2: say that's the underrated gem. But obviously X Men ninety

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Speaker 2: two everybody knows it. There's a reason that's getting a sequel.

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Speaker 2: That shit's iconic. But Spider Man, I'm glad you brought

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Speaker 2: up Chauncey because I don't think it gets the love

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Speaker 2: it deserves.

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Speaker 1: Should we do a rewatch of the original nineties X

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Speaker 1: Men animated series in preparation for the upcoming X Men

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Speaker 1: animated series on Disney Plus?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Yes, And let's do Pride of the

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Speaker 2: X Men two, you know, the one they made before.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because that's like that shit.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you the real truth when you watch that.

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Speaker 2: You gotta watch it after you watch ninety two, because

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Speaker 2: ninety two doesn't hold up to Pride. Oh wow, Pride

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Speaker 2: is actually like you want to see that story. You

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Speaker 2: want to see that story? Okay, yeah, it's so good.

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Speaker 1: Ian asks, is the real hidden theme of our film

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Speaker 1: that actual reality sucks ass because there's no Spider person

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Speaker 1: in it. I think that might be to make it

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Speaker 1: serious for a second, I think that part of the

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Speaker 1: theme is that our reality actually success because they're you know,

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Speaker 1: what are these stories? Generally speaking? They are like incredible

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Speaker 1: wish fulfillment where we want to live in a world

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Speaker 1: in which people with tremendous power and tremendous resources, who

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Speaker 1: are geniuses and are rich and are incredibly talented and powerful,

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Speaker 1: don't just like sit up in their skyscraper penthouses and

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Speaker 1: like a crew capital and like build bunkers on islands

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Speaker 1: off the coast of New Zealand waiting for the apocalypse.

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Speaker 1: They go out and they try and save the world.

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Speaker 1: We want that to be the case. It's clearly not

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Speaker 1: the case in our world, but we want it to be.

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Speaker 1: That's why these stories have so much staying power. That's

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Speaker 1: why people still engage with them. That's why kids and

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Speaker 1: adults and everybody are in a comic store anytime you

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Speaker 1: walk in there. So, yeah, I think that you're right

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Speaker 1: Ian in a certain kind of sense. You're correct.

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Speaker 3: Nothing well to add that was perfect. I totally agree up.

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Speaker 1: Next, return to the Omnibus to discuss Spider Man twenty

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Speaker 1: ninety nine.

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Speaker 3: We've got exciting news.

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Speaker 2: Extra Vision will be recording our fifteenth Anniversary of The

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Speaker 2: Dark Knight Retrospective episode live in Los Angeles on June

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Speaker 2: twenty six, that's seven PMPT. Join us in person or

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Speaker 2: via live stream from the comfort of your home. Tickets

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Speaker 2: are More info available at Crooked dot com Slash Events.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another chapter in the Omnibus where lore, analysis

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Speaker 1: and understanding come together. This week Miguel O'Hara Spider Man

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Speaker 1: twenty ninety nine. Reboots and retcons are, of course a

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Speaker 1: necessary part of serialized storytelling. That's particularly true in comics,

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Speaker 1: right where you're trying to continuously engage a new audience.

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Speaker 1: A new person whose next comics is their first comic.

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Speaker 1: Talked a lot about the Marvel's Ultimate Universe, the two

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Speaker 1: thousand's era line of books featuring Marvel's most popular heroes

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Speaker 1: in a modern setting. Miles Morales, of course, makes his

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Speaker 1: first appearance in twenty eleven's Ultimate Universe, number four and

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Speaker 1: offshoot of Marvel's Ultimate Spider Man. The Ultimate Universe has

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Speaker 1: been incredibly influential to all of the MCU properties. Fallout

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Speaker 1: explored the repercussions of the shocking, tragic, and incredibly sorrow

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Speaker 1: filled death of Peter Parker in the pages of Ultimate

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Speaker 1: Spider Man. I won't spoil how and there's a long,

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Speaker 1: long runway to get to that moment, but it's an

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Speaker 1: incredible moment in comic storytelling, and it also acts. Fallout

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Speaker 1: does as a kind of like soft reboot itself, like

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Speaker 1: a reboot of a retcon, essentially of the Ultimate Universe,

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Speaker 1: but before Ultimate Marvel, way back in the nineties, there

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Speaker 1: was Marvel twenty ninety nine. The twenty ninety nine initiative,

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Speaker 1: if we can call it, that launched with four titles

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Speaker 1: in the Year of Our Lord nineteen ninety two, Ravage

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Speaker 1: twenty ninety nine. Ravage was a new superhero, and really

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Speaker 1: the marketing behind Ravage was that, Hey, stan Lee's got

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Speaker 1: a new superhero, kids, and it's Ravage. You gotta love it.

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Speaker 1: He is twenty ninety nine, his Ravage, stan Lee Excelsia.

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Speaker 1: Do you know anything about Ravage? No, because nobody cares

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Speaker 1: about Ravage anymore. This is also like they tried this

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Speaker 1: in like I want to say, eighty six with Speedball

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Speaker 1: and a bunch of new heroes too. Oh, Stanley's back

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Speaker 1: with a new hair on. He Speedball. He bounceles around

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Speaker 1: like a Speedball. Doom twenty ninety nine, Victor Ron Doom

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Speaker 1: in the Year twenty ninety nine. Punish Shirt twenty ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: Because if there's one thing that's for sure now, and

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Speaker 1: one hundred years in the future, there's gonna be dudes

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Speaker 1: killing dudes with guns. And of course Spider Man twenty

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Speaker 1: ninety nine. Spider Man twenty ninety nine is the only

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Speaker 1: one of those original four offerings that has any kind

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Speaker 1: of staying power, has a real fan base of its own.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 1: The tone, as you can kind of guess just by

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Speaker 1: the selection here, was very very nineties, kind of proto

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Speaker 1: nineties to what it became. This is pre all the

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Speaker 1: pockets and all the belts and guns and stuff, but

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Speaker 1: the weird hairstyles were there, and the violent grittiness which

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Speaker 1: had kind of been developing over the course of the

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Speaker 1: mid eighties into the nineties with the offerings of Frank

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Speaker 1: Miller and others, was here to see.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: The twenty ninety nine line didn't run all that line,

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Speaker 1: like six years and change, seven years ish, but it

439
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,879
Speaker 1: acted as a launch pad for Miguel O'Hara aka Spider

440
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,959
Speaker 1: Man twenty ninety nine, who, as we have seen from

441
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 1: across the Spider Verse and in other comics recent comic offerings,

442
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: continues to be a character who is engaged with the

443
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 1: stuff that's going on in story today and is a

444
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: really fun character to explore. So how did Miguel O'Hara

445
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 1: get the Spider powers? Well, created by legends Peter David

446
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 1: and Rick learn Ardi, Miguel's origin is kind of the

447
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: most original non clone Spider Man origin. The rest of

448
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 1: them are, you know, Miles got his powers in a

449
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: very similar way to Peter Parker and the rest of

450
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: the Spider Society same thing. They got bit by the

451
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: radioactive Spider. Some of them are just straight off clones

452
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: of Peter Parker. Not so with Miguel. Miguel is a

453
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 1: in the year twenty ninety nine. Is a brilliant genetic

454
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: research brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, And you know where do you

455
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: work if you're a brilliant genetic researcher, you work for

456
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: the evil corporation alchem X, because I guess there's no

457
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: other places than he could have possibly worked, but he

458
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: decided to work at alcam X, and his work involved,

459
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, working on DNA, altering DNA, splicing different DNAs

460
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: together to create hybrids. One inspiration of Miguel's is a

461
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: mysterious figure from the Heroic Age aka the late twentieth

462
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: century spider Man. Just imagine he's telling his supervisor Aaron,

463
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: think of what we could do with the proportional powers

464
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: of a spider. This guy would be quote an ideal

465
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 1: corporate raider, meaning like he could like climb into our competitors'

466
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 1: buildings and steal files and stuff.

467
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 4: So maybe Miguel is.

468
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: Actually like at the right place, the exact right company

469
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: for him to work out. Miguel is excited about his work,

470
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: but he's getting a lot of pressure from Aaron, his supervisor,

471
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: and from CEO Tyler Stone, who really want him to

472
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: hurry up. We got to start human trials already with

473
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: this research. And me Guy's like, no, it's too early.

474
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: We're not ready to do human research. We can't go

475
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: to human testing yet, and they're like wrong. I'm the

476
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: CEO of this company, Tyler Stone, And guess what, I

477
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: already got a guy. His name is Sims. He is

478
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: a prisoner, and in exchange for commuting his sentence, which

479
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: I have somehow bargained for with I don't know the

480
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: Justice Department or somebody, because I'm a fucking billionaire, I've

481
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 1: made them agree that they will shorten his sentence if

482
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: he will undergo your gene splicing process. Miguel is like, fuck, okay,

483
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 1: we'll do it. So they put him, you know, in

484
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: the machinery and they splice him up in real time

485
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: with the genes, and what bursts forth from the mechanized

486
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: sarcophagus thingy is just like this melted horror. The origin

487
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: story is clearly influenced by David Cronenberg's The fly By

488
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: Blade Runner. All these kind of dark and mysterious and

489
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 1: shadowy and somewhat discomfitting like dystopian futuristic stories. Right, and

490
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: Sims grabs Miguel around the neck after breaking his bonds

491
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: and bursting out of the machinery, and before he can

492
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: do too much damage, he just fucking drops dead because

493
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: the process was extremely destructive to his body on a

494
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: cellular level. And Aaron and CEO stal are like, fuck, yeah,

495
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: that was fucking great. Look at that he broke out

496
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: of all that metal and stone. He was tied down,

497
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: and this is awesome. And he goes like, what are

498
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: you talking about?

499
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: This guy fucking died right away.

500
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, but like in the five seconds before

501
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: he died, he was super strong.

502
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: This is great. Let's keep going and Miguel is.

503
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: Like, no, I quit. He goes to the CEOs off

504
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: was like, fuck this, I'm out. We just killed the guy.

505
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: Like I can't, this is fucked up. Stone's like, I

506
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: get it. You have a backbone, you have a moral compass.

507
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 4: That's great.

508
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: Here's a glass of wine. Have this glass of wine.

509
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: It's not weird at all that we just watched a

510
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 1: guy die. And now I'm offering you a glass which

511
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: just drink the wine because all right. And so Miguel

512
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: drinks the wine and immediately starts tripping balls. And that's

513
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: because CEO Tyler Stone has slipped Rapture, a instantly addictive hallucinogen,

514
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 1: into Mguel's wine. And why why would CEO Tylers don't

515
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: do this?

516
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 4: Here's the reason.

517
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: Now you're fucking addicted to drugs and you're gonna need more.

518
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 4: And guess who makes rapture? Alchem X.

519
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: Why do they make this drug? No one fucking knows.

520
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: It's like the Sacklers only if there was no medical

521
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: use for this fucking drug. So ALCHEMX is the only people,

522
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: the only corporation that makes this incredibly addictive, fucking street hallucinogen.

523
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: And now Miguel is addicted to it, and if you

524
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: want more, what do you have to do? You have

525
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: to clock in and come back to work. Motherfucker. So

526
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: Miguel home tripping, immediately attacks his girlfriend because he's hallucinating.

527
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 1: Then he kind of wears off a little bit, and

528
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: he's what am.

529
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 4: I gonna do?

530
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: He tells his girlfriend everything and desperation, he figures, Okay,

531
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sneak back into my lab. I'm gonna put

532
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: myself in the machinery, the other machinery that's not destroyed, right,

533
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 1: I'm gonna splice my own clean DNA that I have,

534
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: like in a computer bank somewhere into my currently addicted

535
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: to rapture DNA, and I'm gonna cleanse myself. I'm gonna

536
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: replace all my DNA and sells with original, clean Miguel cells.

537
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: It's fucking brilliant. He goes in there. He's doing it. Well,

538
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: guess who's working late tonight, Aaron, the supervisor. Aaron walks

539
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: in and sees mcguel in the machine AND's like, ohh,

540
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: you don't wanna fucking push the human trials try to

541
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: quit and all this stuff. I'm gonna kill you now

542
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: would Aaron do this. If he understood that the CEO

543
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: himself had just addicted Miguel to drugs in order to

544
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: keep him working, he probably would not have done this,

545
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: but he decided. He sabotages the machinery and just like

546
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: because Miguel had earlier said, Hey, wouldn't it be great

547
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: if we like spliced someone with a spider. Wouldn't that

548
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: be cool? He is like, watch this, I'm gonna spice

549
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: you with a spider and he pulls up spider file

550
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: on the computer. The machinery goes haywire and fucking explodes,

551
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 1: but Miguel is like emerges like shaken, but he comes

552
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: out of it, and Aaron's like, holy shit, you stroubed.

553
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 4: Not only did he.

554
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: Survive, he's got like white eyes, he's super strong. He's

555
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: got like fucking claws in his hands and his feet,

556
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: and he looks like a vampire with fangs and stuff.

557
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: He tries to save Aaron's life, who almost like falls

558
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: out of the building that goes sideways. An alchemic swat

559
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: team arrives. Miguel is like, coh, this is too crazy.

560
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna end it all. He jumps out of the

561
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: building as he's falling to his death. He's like, wait, wait,

562
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 1: I don't want to die actually, and he reaches out

563
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 1: and he grabs onto the side of the building and

564
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: with his claws. This is how Spider Man twenty ninety

565
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: nine climbs walls, his talents in his hands and feet,

566
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: just goes sink right into the concrete and steal and

567
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: he's able to scale the side of the building.

568
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 4: Now, superheroes from the heroic age in.

569
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 1: The twenty ninety nine universe had taken on kind of

570
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: like a cult like mythology. There are people who are

571
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: followers of all the Avengers and the Es Guardians. A

572
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: Thorite who's basically a worships thor As like a cult figure,

573
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: is flying random shit they have as in comics, is

574
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: flying a hang glider across New York City dressed as

575
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: thor doing thor stuff. When Miguel comes flying off the

576
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: side of the building and jumps onto the paraglider and

577
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: they crash. But the Thorite actually gives Miguel a good

578
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: bit of advice where he says, listen, Spider Man, you

579
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: have to put on a mask. Spider Man is back.

580
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: Spider Man was an ally of thor who I worship

581
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: as a cult like figure. And you have to put

582
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: on a mask now, because that's what Spider Man did.

583
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: You have to hide your identity. And Miguel's like, that's actually,

584
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. So Stone then gets wind of

585
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: Miguel's transformation, he hires like this cyborg to hunt him down.

586
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: By that time, Miguel has obtained a costume, the costume

587
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: that we see in the movie that kind of very

588
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: very nineties, slightly techno, kind of grungy, webbed under the

589
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 1: arms costume. And this you would think, did Miguel make

590
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: this out of unstable molecules? He does talk about, oh,

591
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: I need unstable molecules now with my claws and stuff. No,

592
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: this is a Day of the Dead costume that he

593
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: had just like in his closet somewhere. I guess they

594
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: do Day of the Dead differently in twenty ninety nine

595
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: and from there, Miguel of course defeats the cyborg with

596
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: the help of the Asgardian cult followers, including the original

597
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: Thorite and the legend of Miguel O'Hara. Spider Man twenty

598
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: ninety nine is born. He is a spider but a

599
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: lot of the weird parts of his power set, the fangs,

600
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: the clause, et cetera, probably come from the interaction of

601
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: the spider DNA plus the crazy crazy rapture drug that

602
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: was like circling around in his bloodstream. That, folks, is

603
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: Miguel O'Hara Spider Man twenty ninety nine. Up next, Hive

604
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Mind with Spider Man India writer Nikesh Shukla.

605
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to Hive Mind, where we explore a topic in

606
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: more detail with an expert guest. This episode, we're thrilled

607
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,479
Speaker 2: to welcome Nikkesh Shukla, the writer of the brand new

608
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: Spider Man India series for Marvel Comic and my friend Nikesh.

609
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us revision. Thank you, Nikesh, Thanks

610
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 4: so much for having me.

611
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 5: Jason Hi, Rosie Hi.

612
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 3: So happy that you're here. My friend.

613
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 4: Before we get into the Spider Man of it all,

614
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: how do you all know each other?

615
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 5: Well, there was like a moment in the London poetry

616
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 5: scene where you'd go to gigs and you'd have me

617
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 5: and Rosie and amazing people like Musa Rock Gwango and

618
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 5: Chimensu Leiman. Oh Wow, Beadles have Ed Sheeran and Sabrina, Mattheus,

619
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 5: and Ahmed. Yeah, there are other people who ended up

620
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 5: being massive as well. Wills and I think was around

621
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 5: at the time as well.

622
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

623
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we just became firm friends being the only

624
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 5: two people who liked.

625
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: Comic books basically yeah.

626
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: And meant it. Yeah, because we actually went to the

627
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 5: comic bookshop and bought comic books and now we're here.

628
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: What a journey and now we're here.

629
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

630
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 1: Have you seen Spider Verse? I have your thoughts on

631
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: Spider Man India.

632
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 5: My global thoughts on Spider Verse is going into it.

633
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 5: Into the Spider Verse is a top ten movie for

634
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 5: me of.

635
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 4: All time, absolutely no question.

636
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 5: So you're already going in going the bar is very

637
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 5: very high. Yes, And I fucking loved it. I absolutely

638
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 5: loved it.

639
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable.

640
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: Two hours twenty minutes went by very quickly. I even

641
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 5: sat through the credits when they flipped from the good

642
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 5: credits to the weird the screen has slightly broken and

643
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 5: you've got that purple hue credits. I just thought it

644
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 5: was brilliant. Spider Man India was a lot of fun.

645
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 5: Spider Punk was awesome. When Daniel Khala shouted man like Miles.

646
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 5: I wanted to jump up in my seat and go.

647
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, bruh, yeah, I screamed.

648
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 3: It was so perfect.

649
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk more about before we get to you

650
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: writing Spider Man India and stuff. What's your origin story

651
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: with comics, like with Spider Man in particular and comics,

652
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 2: which I know for you is like really intertwined.

653
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 5: Yeah. So, when I was six years old, I went

654
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 5: to India for an extended period of time, and my cousins,

655
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 5: who are all a lot older than me, they were

656
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 5: all reading Archie comics and they all felt that a

657
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 5: six year old probably didn't need to learn about jeloppies

658
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 5: and double dates and and all the rest of it,

659
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 5: probably too young to understand, you know, weird innuendos about

660
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 5: making out and stuff. So they bought me a Spider

661
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 5: Man comic and a Batman comic, and that Spider Man

662
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: comic was just the one that I re read and

663
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 5: reread and reread for the entire time I was there.

664
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 5: I just absolutely fell in love with that comic. So weirdly,

665
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 5: my comics journey started in India. And then in the

666
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 5: mid nineties, me and my best friend Janade, we used

667
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 5: to go to the comic shop every week and we

668
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 5: would sit at the back of the comic shop and

669
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 5: read all of the comics for free, and then whatever

670
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 5: little money we had we would buy all those number ones,

671
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 5: all those Yeah it was a mid nineties, so all

672
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 5: those foil variant covers, and we were like, this is it.

673
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 5: This is how we're going to make our fortune.

674
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: We're going to buy a house.

675
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, exactly, this is how we make our fortune.

676
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 5: And we never did. And then years later, when I

677
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 5: thought I was the only person left in my friendship

678
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 5: with reading comic books, I started going to Orbital Comics

679
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 5: in London, which Rosie was later worked out when they

680
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 5: moved locations.

681
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: I did.

682
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 5: But when it was in the original top of Totta

683
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 5: Cook Road location basement, Yeah, in the basement it was

684
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 5: me and in Ellam's the poet. We used to sit

685
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 5: in there and read comics at the back. Turns out,

686
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 5: twenty years after the fact, I was still a cheap.

687
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: Skape thinking of those foil variant years and the collectible

688
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: comic and the bag. Did you ever come up with

689
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: this is my problem? Did you ever come up with

690
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: a solution to getting the comic home without bending the pages.

691
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 1: This was the issue I had coming from the shop

692
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: with the super collectible comic. I thought that I had

693
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: saved all my money for.

694
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 4: It's in the bag.

695
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: It's got the little extra sheet, it's got the little

696
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: sticker pack, it's got.

697
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 4: The foil thing.

698
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: But how do you get it home on a bicycle

699
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: in a backpack without bending the corners?

700
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 4: How do you do it? How did you do it?

701
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 5: Jason? Please don't let me tell the story because I'm

702
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 5: going to lose so many cool creds.

703
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Please tell us now, you have to tell.

704
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 5: Us we had a briefcase.

705
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 4: That's cool, that's a good idea.

706
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: That's like you're in pulp fiction, like the goal is

707
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: yellowing when you put the hologram covers in there.

708
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 5: No, you're putting twenty twenty three nostalgia onto the eighties

709
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 5: briefcase that I was still using in the early nineties

710
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 5: and the early nineties. That made me a preg and

711
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,959
Speaker 5: in the midnight when all this was happening, it made

712
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 5: me somewhat of an odd ball Mede. We'd have the briefcase.

713
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: It had all of the comics in the main cabin. Yeah,

714
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 5: I don't know what.

715
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: The compartment the first class comic book cabin in the suitcase.

716
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and because we were teenage boys, you lifted up

717
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 5: the compartment for the secret compartment and there was some

718
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 5: naughty magazines.

719
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 3: That was the most important briefcase in the world.

720
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 5: I know exactly. Like I don't think my dad is

721
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 5: going to listen to this podcast. Sorry, guys, I don't

722
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 5: think he listens. Story vision.

723
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 3: It's all right, heartbroken.

724
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 5: So I feel like I can get away with confessing.

725
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: That, Wow, who could have ever known there would have

726
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: been such a good, unique story. Yeah, So sticking to

727
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: that nineties kind of like because we don't really get

728
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: to talk about these crazy speculation boom times. Do you

729
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: remember like this single comic that you bought, you were like,

730
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: this is the one, Like I remember getting Sporn number one.

731
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: Like when I got a copy of that, I was like,

732
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be rich. I didn't know they printed like

733
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: five million copies of it.

734
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 5: It was a comic called Legionnaires. Oh yeah, I don't

735
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 5: think it lasted more than ten issues. And then we

736
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 5: upsold that so we could buy profit issue for which

737
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 5: had the misprint in it. And that was the one

738
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 5: where we were like this is the one, guys, this

739
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 5: is the one we lived in a pre eBay world.

740
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 5: What we were going to do just I was going

741
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 5: to say the end of that story, and then I

742
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 5: was like, dude, you already tell them about the briefcase.

743
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: You're like, the briefcase has already come up, Guys.

744
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 5: Don't tell them that you kept meaning to go to

745
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 5: the various cons and sell profit issue for but you

746
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 5: couldn't afford the drain fare.

747
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 3: That's relatable.

748
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 5: Much like Spider Man, he was always broke.

749
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 2: I never even went to a proper comic book convention

750
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: till I moved to America. They have an English comic

751
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: convention MCM, but I went there like once or twice,

752
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: and it was mostly just like because I could get

753
00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: there on the tube.

754
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 5: The ones we went to, it was basically a bunch

755
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 5: of people like us trying to sell things, trying to

756
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 5: buy their house, and no one to buy because we

757
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 5: just didn't realize that all of those comics were in

758
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 5: abundance at the time.

759
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 4: So how did you find yourself writing Spider Man?

760
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 5: Because of the wonderful Jamie McKelvey basically icon on Twitter

761
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 5: for years, I would just try and manifest that I

762
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 5: wanted to write a Spider Man because like, I've had

763
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 5: a long and varied career writing novels, working on TV

764
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 5: shows and stuff, and I feel like I've done everything

765
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 5: that I wanted to do. And then a couple of

766
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 5: years ago, I turned down a major award in the

767
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 5: UK called an MBE because it stands for Member of

768
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 5: the British Empire, and I was like, I don't really

769
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 5: want those letters after my name, and so when I

770
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 5: did that, I kind of felt like maybe I should

771
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 5: try and do something for myself. So one day I

772
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 5: just wrote on Twitter one day, I want to write

773
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 5: a Spider Man comic. I still filed it as you

774
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 5: know when you're a kid and you're like, I want

775
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 5: to be a fireman, I want to be a traffic warden,

776
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 5: I want to be an astronaut. I want to write

777
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 5: comic books. It still felt like one of those careers.

778
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 5: And Jamie McKelvey, I think he still follows me. Yeah,

779
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 5: he follows me on what a way to find out? Yeah,

780
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 5: Jamie just DMed me and said, do you want me

781
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 5: to introduce you to some people in Marvel if you're serious?

782
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 5: And I was like, yeah, I'm serious. Sure In that

783
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 5: way that like someone has just gone, oh, you know

784
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 5: that pipe dream you have, I can definitely make it

785
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 5: a reality if you want, And then you suddenly freak

786
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 5: out because you're like, oh God, I've actually got to

787
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 5: try and do this properly. So Jamie put me in

788
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 5: touch with the people at Marvel. It was the pandemic times,

789
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 5: so you know, they were busy trying to get comic

790
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 5: books out and they had I was one of probably

791
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 5: many people going hey, can I write a Spider Man comic?

792
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 5: And I was starting to feel like maybe I should

793
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 5: just pitch them something properly rather than just going, hey,

794
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 5: can we have a chat and we can fling some

795
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 5: ideas around. Let me just go in with a pitch.

796
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 5: And around the time I had that realization, that first

797
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 5: teaser trailer for Across the Spider Verse came out and

798
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 5: I was talking to Rosie about it. I think you

799
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 5: guys even discussed it on the podcast at the time,

800
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 5: but there's a moment where it kind of you hear

801
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: a tablet on it and I thought, oh, I wonder

802
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 5: if Puvito Probacco is going to be in this, that

803
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 5: would be pretty cool. And then I thought, why has

804
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 5: there not been another mini series since the original one

805
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 5: that came out in two thousand and five. He's such

806
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 5: a fun character and actually, whenever he's cropped up in

807
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 5: all the Spider Versal adventures, he's always sort of in

808
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 5: the background. He gets a call action shot, maybe a

809
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 5: couple of quips, but we don't really actually know much

810
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 5: about him. They haven't explored enough about him. Fuck it,

811
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 5: I'm going to pitch Spider Man India. So I wrote

812
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: them an idea, send it through, and they came back

813
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,879
Speaker 5: and said, you know what. Funnily enough, we were thinking

814
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 5: about doing another mini series and I don't know if

815
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 5: you know this, but he's going to be in the

816
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 5: next across the Spider Verse, and so that's yeah, that's

817
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 5: pretty much how it happened. Yeah, I got to write

818
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 5: a new Spider Man and I got to like put

819
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 5: my own stamp on it, which was the fun thing

820
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 5: because there wasn't much about Bubvito that was sort of

821
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 5: cannon and I hadn't seen the movie and read the

822
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 5: script or anything, so I've got to just do what

823
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 5: I wanted to do, which was great.

824
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 2: So, like for people who haven't read that two thousand

825
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: and five mini series, which I'm sure has been reprinted

826
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 2: and is probably available to buy seeing as the movie

827
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: is out. Who is pav Like, what's the story of

828
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: Spider Man India?

829
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 5: Correct me if I'm wrong, Rosie, I'm sure you will.

830
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 5: He was one of the first sort of multiversal spiders

831
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 5: to exist. I mean, it wasn't sort of clarified until

832
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 5: later on that he was what earth he was in. Yeah,

833
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 5: but that first forest you ark is very much like

834
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 5: a retelling of the Spider Man origin story, with the

835
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 5: death of Uncle Ben uncle be him in this case,

836
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 5: and the introduction of like an Indian demon who is

837
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 5: the Green Goblin and a doctor Octopus type villain. Yeah,

838
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 5: it's pretty much an origin story. That's pretty much it,

839
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 5: and it's fun and it's interesting, like recontextualizing Spider Man

840
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 5: and that iconic sort of New York skyline to somewhere

841
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 5: like Bombay, which is you know, the skyline is very

842
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 5: was very different in twenty and five, and in twenty

843
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 5: twenty three is even more different because you know, there

844
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 5: are so many more high rises now they were springing

845
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 5: up then. So yeah, that was pretty much it. It

846
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 5: was very much like a retelling of the origin story

847
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 5: and sort of remixing it with sort of Indian mysticism

848
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 5: and bits of Hinduism and just imbuing it with like

849
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 5: Spider Man isn't bitten by radioactive Spider He's sort of

850
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 5: chosen and given this sort of mystical power.

851
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: I was reading through a bunch of your interviews and

852
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: there's a quote in one of them that jumped out

853
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: at me. You said, you know, telling I think the

854
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: story that you told us about your comics origin story

855
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: that reading Spider Man made you feel less alone. Could

856
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: you explain that?

857
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, like the character of Peter Parker and to an

858
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 5: exten Miles Morales, they're both such brilliant teenagers. They've got

859
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 5: the weight of the world on their shoulders, They've got

860
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 5: everything against them. They are so racked with guilt and shame,

861
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 5: which as the child of immigrant parents, I grew up

862
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 5: racked with guilt and shame all the time. And so

863
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 5: whenever I read those comics, I just like, this superhero

864
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 5: kid got me because he put on a mask to

865
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 5: become his cocky, most powerful best. And so there was

866
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 5: always this interesting thing of like, who is the real

867
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 5: person Spider Man or Peter Parker? You know, that whole

868
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 5: thing that's exploreding Issue thirty one, the sort of the

869
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 5: duality of the selves, and it just really resonated with me.

870
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 5: I think it's really hard to nail writing teenagers, and

871
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 5: writing teenagers who feel like the world is against them,

872
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 5: but also make them fun. That's the thing about Spider Man.

873
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 5: He's a fun character. Theirs, even when they get dark,

874
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 5: even when they get heavy, they're still fun. There's still

875
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 5: a lightness to them that you don't often get all

876
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 5: that the balance is always off in other books.

877
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 2: I think, what's it like for you then, to come

878
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: from loving Spider Man Peter Parker and that being such

879
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 2: an influential kind of story in your life, to then

880
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: getting to reintroduce readers to pav and to this, like

881
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: you said, a story that hasn't been seen for almost

882
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: twenty years, and to just get to kind of go

883
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 2: wild and put your own stamp on it.

884
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna lie. The expectation of it was terrifying.

885
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel you.

886
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 5: I feel you, not just of like anyone else reading it,

887
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 5: but like I'm still a reader, I'm still a comic

888
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 5: book reader, so like it had to be something that

889
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 5: I would read first and foremost and One of the

890
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 5: things that I really loved about the end Beats of

891
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 5: No Way Home was we get a street level Spidery back,

892
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 5: and the first half of Homecoming when he is street

893
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 5: level Spidy. That is my favorite Spider Man. I love

894
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 5: writing that Spider Man, and that's what I decided to

895
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 5: do with Pav. I just wanted to root him in

896
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 5: his city and sort of make that background, that new

897
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 5: setting just really feel like it's a character as much

898
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 5: as he is. What was really fun was I got

899
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 5: to write a small introductory like cold open adventure with

900
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 5: Peter Parker and Mars Rylis Wow, which sets up the book,

901
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 5: which is like absolute dream come true. And then you

902
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 5: just roote him back in five oh one oh one

903
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 5: in that Bombay where he is the only Spider Man.

904
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 5: So Spider Man India. It's kind of a weird title,

905
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 5: just saying I did a short backup story in Edge

906
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 5: of Spider Verse last year called average reluctant teenage Superhero

907
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 5: where he basically sort of questions the concept of him

908
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,320
Speaker 5: being called Spider Man India.

909
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 3: It's very good, Go and read it.

910
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 5: This comic book does well. Hopefully I'll get to bring

911
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 5: him back or someone else will get to bring him

912
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 5: back and we can kind of have that conversation about

913
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 5: you know, him being not an Indian Spider Man, but

914
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 5: being the Spider Man of verse five h one oh one.

915
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 5: But yeah, writing a street level Spidery, I'm going to

916
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 5: confess something here. When I was workshopping the idea of

917
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 5: what my Spider Man story was gonna be, I workshopped

918
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 5: it with a certain Rosie Night.

919
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: I was me.

920
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 5: Who was very very helpful. I had loads of thoughts.

921
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 5: Nick Burno really helped me out with some thoughts and

922
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 5: just to help me frame what I wanted to do,

923
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 5: because my thing was I want him to be on

924
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 5: the ground. I want him to be doing community based stuff.

925
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 5: And that whole thing of like, with great power comes

926
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 5: great responsibility is wonderful. It's like it's obviously set the

927
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 5: tone for you know, all of Spider Man Cannon, but

928
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 5: the thing that it has the potential to be is

929
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 5: feel quite individualistic. And so when you have a street

930
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 5: level hero who stands up for community, you kind of

931
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 5: have to talk about what that community means to him

932
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 5: and what he means to that community. And so I

933
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 5: thought about the idea of this thing called Seva which

934
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 5: is like this Hindu thing of like selfless community service,

935
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 5: which to me like when one has great power and

936
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 5: great responsibility and one decides to be a mass superhero,

937
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,760
Speaker 5: they might do selfless community service. And so the book's

938
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 5: called Seva and it's basically about you know, it's that

939
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 5: classic Why am I doing this storyline? But with some

940
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 5: core fights and stuff.

941
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to something you were talking about.

942
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: You've written in a lot of different kinds of mediums.

943
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: You've done journalism, you've written novels, you've written criticisms, you've

944
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: written comic books. How do you because I'm sure there's

945
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people that listen to this that either

946
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: want to create something or want to write something, want

947
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: in some fashion put something in the world that is

948
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: going to require them asking someone to let them do it.

949
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: What is your process for pitching something like you got

950
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:09,840
Speaker 1: to pitch Marvel Comics.

951
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: How do you go about it? What do you do?

952
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 5: It just kind of has some famous friends, Jason, right.

953
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 2: The terrible, the terrible truth comes out.

954
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 4: That really does help. Let's admit it, Yeah.

955
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 5: It does help. I do honestly think that when people pitch,

956
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 5: they often pitch the wrong way round. They pitch what

957
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 5: they think the magazine or the publisher or the comic

958
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 5: book editor wants, or what they think that the audience wants,

959
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 5: rather than the story that they want to tell. The

960
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 5: very earnest way to say this is you could write anything.

961
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 5: You know, we're all in the imagination business. Like, we

962
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 5: can make anything happen. We can make a meteorite crash

963
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 5: towards Earth and the only people who can save humanity

964
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 5: a ragtag group of industrial drillers. Or we can have

965
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 5: a boy and a girl falling in out of love

966
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 5: over three years at a prestigious Dublin college. Or we

967
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 5: can have humanity try and put itself back together by

968
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 5: watching a Shakespeare play following a global pandemic. I don't know,

969
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 5: Like you know, we can do absolutely anything. So the

970
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 5: thing that you kind of have to do when you're

971
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 5: pitching is go, what is my unique take on this world?

972
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 5: What is the one thing that I want to say?

973
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 5: Because your idea is your unique perspective, the perspective that

974
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 5: you have, that's your currency. Ultimately, those editors and Marvel

975
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 5: have seen every single person try and imitate stan Lee.

976
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 5: They've seen everyone try and imitate Tom McFarland. They've seen

977
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 5: everyone trying to imitate all of the great They've seen

978
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 5: all of that. So what do you want to say?

979
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 5: When I was workshopping what I wanted to do with

980
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 5: Rosie and a bunch of other friends, Like, the thing

981
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 5: that I kept coming back to is what's the story

982
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 5: I want to tell. I want to tell a street

983
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 5: level spidery story. I want to tell a story that's

984
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 5: about the pull between hustler culture, individualism, and standing up

985
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 5: for your community. I want to tell a story that's

986
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 5: about gentrification. I want to tell a story about Andrew

987
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 5: Tate that got softened a little in the editorial process

988
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 5: because it turns out I was trying to say a

989
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 5: lot in five issues, so you know, we can come

990
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 5: back to that. So I guess that's my best advice.

991
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 5: Before you go out and get yourself a famous friend,

992
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 5: work out what you want to say first.

993
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 2: And when it came to writing this comic, like, was

994
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: there something.

995
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 3: Process wise that surprised you?

996
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: Because you read comics your whole life, But when you

997
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: read a book and when you write a book, the

998
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: thing that you write, your manuscript looks a lot like

999
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: the published book. When you write a TV show that

1000
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: is different, but you hear the words that you write

1001
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: on the page and you see the people doing the

1002
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: things you describe. When you write a script for a

1003
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: comic book, it essentially transforms completely when the artist gets

1004
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 2: their hands on it. So what was the process like

1005
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 2: of kind of getting comfortable with writing comics.

1006
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 5: Writing comics and working on TV shows are so collaborative,

1007
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 5: and when you've spent so long being the sole oteur writer,

1008
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 5: writing the literary great all by yourself, it becomes quite

1009
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 5: hard to work out the pie chart of collaboration. So

1010
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 5: working with Abishek Munsoni on this the artist, and working

1011
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 5: with the letters and the inkers and the colorizers, you

1012
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 5: can tell I've got the technical terms.

1013
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 3: Down, everyone's favorite colorizers.

1014
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 5: Color colorizers. It was really interesting because you know, there's

1015
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 5: a lot of collaboration going on, you know, between me

1016
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 5: and Ubbushek and the editors, and the way that the

1017
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 5: letterer might put everything in might make you review, like

1018
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 5: whether the panel just says it, or whether you need

1019
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 5: the dialogue, whether there's dialogue missing, whether dialogue just sort

1020
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 5: of is saying what's already happening in the panel. The

1021
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 5: whole thing is very iterative, and it's very flexible, and

1022
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 5: it's very emergent, and I really love that. Like today,

1023
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 5: I've been working on the script for issue three, which

1024
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 5: I turned in like back in se Tember. But now

1025
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: that all the artwork's done and it's been inked, there's

1026
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 5: new stuff that I'm finding, and there's new stuff that

1027
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 5: I'm able to kind of push on. And actually having

1028
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 5: written the script for issue five, like a couple of

1029
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 5: weeks ago, I now know where this is heading, so

1030
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 5: I can you know, this is the midpoint issue. So

1031
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 5: it is very iterative. But one hoping to do when

1032
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 5: that first issue dropped is go back to the first

1033
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 5: script that I wrote, the first draft of it, because

1034
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 5: I started writing the script not realizing that it would

1035
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 5: be helpful for me to draw out some pages with

1036
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 5: some stick figures and all the rest of it, and

1037
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 5: then write the script to that and then hand that

1038
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 5: script into the artist, and then talk with the artist

1039
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,439
Speaker 5: about what I was hoping for and then give them

1040
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 5: like a visual palette from which to pull from and

1041
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,399
Speaker 5: all the rest of it. I hope I can show

1042
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 5: that journey, because that journey was really fun for me,

1043
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 5: Like I've never worked like that.

1044
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: Before What did you think of Spiderman's costume in Across

1045
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 1: the Spider Verse.

1046
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 5: I thought it was great when it first came out.

1047
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 5: It looked very specifically like there's a Bollywood actor called

1048
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 5: Mithun Chukra Buddy who in the eighties or nineties, there

1049
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 5: was a very famous film called Disco Dancer.

1050
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 3: Oh, I love that movie.

1051
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 5: I am a Discord Dancers.

1052
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: Add you on Netflix. That's how I discovered it.

1053
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 5: It's great Jimmy samples one of the songs in that.

1054
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 5: I thought the look was very sort of inspired by

1055
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,479
Speaker 5: that era of Bollywood, and it's obviously so different from

1056
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 5: what I was working with. Yeah, and so it's interesting

1057
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 5: now sort of seeing what they've done with pav and

1058
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 5: also listening to Kemp on the pod last week talk

1059
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 5: about how the film is basically a warning shot across

1060
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 5: the bowels of Cannon. Yeah, I was watching it going,

1061
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 5: oh God, do I have to go back to the

1062
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 5: drawing board. But actually, like my path and the path

1063
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 5: that's in the film, they come from the same essence,

1064
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 5: but you know, they are different characters. I don't want

1065
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 5: to ruin it too much, but there might be a

1066
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 5: meeting of minds when it comes to that outfit at

1067
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 5: some point.

1068
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 4: Oh wonderful.

1069
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 5: I haven't spoiled it too much. I hope my editors

1070
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 5: of Marvel don't mind me saying that.

1071
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: I think that's a wonderful tease that a lot of

1072
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 2: people have been wondering about since the film.

1073
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 4: And absolutely great teas.

1074
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1075
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, PEVs costume in the film

1076
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: is a revelation because my personal theory up until that

1077
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: point was that open top masks don't work. I don't

1078
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,439
Speaker 1: like when the hair comes out the top, whether it's

1079
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: Hank Pim as Goliath. You can go on and on

1080
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: the number of times people have tried a hawkeye. I've

1081
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 1: never seen it work until pav Across the Spider Verse

1082
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: is the first time I was like, that works, that

1083
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: looks good.

1084
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 5: It's because it's Bollywood hair.

1085
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, dream hair.

1086
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 5: It's almost like, you know, Bollywood is famed for loads

1087
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 5: of slow motion shots of like people whipping their hair

1088
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 5: across their across their perfectly chiseled faces, and it just

1089
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 5: it just made me think when I was watching it,

1090
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 5: I wonder if they like slowed the frame rate of

1091
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 5: like the way his hair moves, and then put it

1092
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 5: back up to normal speed. Almost like time stretching his

1093
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 5: hair because it looks amazing.

1094
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: I would believe it because I did learn this week

1095
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 2: thanks to all the other Hoby Brown fans out there,

1096
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: that they animated Hobie on that his body was animated

1097
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 2: on his on the threes, but his outline were always

1098
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: animated on the twos, and they had to create an

1099
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 2: entirely new animation device to do that. So I think

1100
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:08,879
Speaker 2: that you're right about the hair.

1101
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 3: I could absolutely see that.

1102
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: Also, what I loved the way that Pav got to

1103
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: be He is like the carefree, non depressed, charming, everything

1104
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 2: goes right Spider Man. That feels very different than anything

1105
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: we've seen of any Spider Man. So did you like

1106
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 2: that kind of reinterpretation?

1107
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I loved it. I'm really glad that he got

1108
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 5: to be happy, go lucky and just seemed like he

1109
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 5: was having a whale of the time because obviously a

1110
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 5: lot of the Spider society is having a miserable I've

1111
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 5: had loads of messages from people in recent weeks. They

1112
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 5: know I'm writing a Spider Man Indian comic book, but

1113
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 5: I think they sometimes don't know the difference between a

1114
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 5: comic book and an animated film because this isn't a spoiler,

1115
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 5: but there's a couple of lines in it where he

1116
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 5: talks about chi t means te te and non bread

1117
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 5: means bread, bread and stuff. And I wrote an essay

1118
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 5: in a in a book that sort of blew up

1119
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 5: in a big way called The Good Immigrant, which sort

1120
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 5: of pokes fun at all of that sort of stuff.

1121
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,439
Speaker 5: And you know, it's not like it's an original thought,

1122
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,799
Speaker 5: like people have said it. Those of people have said

1123
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,959
Speaker 5: it over the years, but it's such a well worn

1124
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 5: diaspora complaint that obviously it would shut up in a

1125
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 5: Spider Man. But like, I've had lots of people go,

1126
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: I love those lines you wrote for that Spider Man.

1127
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 5: I was like, that's not sadly, that's that's not me.

1128
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 3: Maybe the next movie maybe maybe and beyond.

1129
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh well, where can people find you? Where?

1130
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 1: Can where can people find your stuff? Are you posting

1131
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 1: out there? Where on the internet? Can people find your material?

1132
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1133
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 5: I'm so glad you said on the internet, because I

1134
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 5: was going to say, if you want to find me

1135
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 5: at my house, please don't. I'm a very private person, guys. Yeah,

1136
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 5: I'm at Nick Schukler writer on Instagram. I'm at Nick

1137
00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 5: Schukla on Twitter. If that's still a thing by the time.

1138
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 1: This appears to be still a thing today, who knows

1139
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: the tomorrow or in the future.

1140
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 5: Yeah and yeah. Spider Man India Issue one is out

1141
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 5: fourteenth of June, and I've just hope you know, mind

1142
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 5: me plug And I've just had a new YA book

1143
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 5: come out called stand Up, which is a fun, fun, little,

1144
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 5: fun little story about about a young kid who wants

1145
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 5: to be a stand up comedian. And also how you

1146
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 5: should never meet heroes because they are always disappointing.

1147
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: Important lessons, important life lesson.

1148
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 5: Important life lessons to bum out. All of the teenagers

1149
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 5: who now are going to listen to this and go

1150
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 5: I need a famous friend. And I've read a book

1151
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 5: basically mitigating that, going don't find a thing. It will

1152
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 5: be terrible, exactly.

1153
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 3: The ad Spider Man India through your pull list.

1154
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 2: Who knows, maybe one day we'll just get a main

1155
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: title Spider Man and it will be about pav We

1156
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: can dream.

1157
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, buve do Probacus Spider Man. That's what I want

1158
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 5: to go for.

1159
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 3: I think that's really cool.

1160
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thanks so much for having me guys. I'm

1161
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 5: a big fan of the podcast. I love I've always

1162
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 5: loved your work, Jason and Rosie. You are one of

1163
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 5: my favorite people in the whole world.

1164
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much, so happy you can be here,

1165
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 2: and so excited for everyone to read this book. Also,

1166
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 2: the Edge of the Spider Verse story is like illustrated by.

1167
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: Non Stop Bangers.

1168
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 2: It was Nickash's first ever comic, so go out and

1169
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 2: finding a copy, Niggas's first ever comic, and it was

1170
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 2: like some of the artists who worked on his stories,

1171
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 2: like Mark Bagley, Adam Cuber like only the most famous

1172
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 2: Spider Man artists of all time on his first ever comic.

1173
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 5: I mean, Adam Cuber has done all of my covers.

1174
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 5: It's absolutely crazy, so I cannot believe it. So please

1175
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 5: please buy the book. This has been so much fun.

1176
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 5: I want to do more. And also I'm just putting

1177
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 5: I'm just going to manifest this now. I really want

1178
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:53,400
Speaker 5: to write a Dared Devil.

1179
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 3: Love it. That's the next.

1180
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love Dared Devil. I feel like Dared Devil

1181
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 5: is consistently.

1182
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 4: Yes, that is the correct opinion.

1183
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:09,560
Speaker 1: It has for forty ish years been mostly very very

1184
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: very good.

1185
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 2: Maybe this okay, this is going to be outrageous Okay,

1186
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 2: let's take X Men out of the equation. But maybe

1187
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 2: the book without X Men, maybe the single superhero who

1188
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: has the most like iconic runs that you can just

1189
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 2: bring up because you have like Born Again, you have

1190
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: the Charles Sewell run. Zadarski just did a run that's

1191
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 2: already been seen as in the modern classic.

1192
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 3: You've got the Bend this run.

1193
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: You've got so many different people who've taken on that character,

1194
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: and each of those trades people will be buying them

1195
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: for like a really long I've.

1196
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 4: Got them all. I've got here.

1197
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: I've got like six omnibuses Bending the shelf online, my bookshelf.

1198
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: I think it's for this reason, now that we've been derailed,

1199
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: I'll say this is my theory, and you tell me

1200
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: whether you agree or disagree. It's one Daredevil has been

1201
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 1: mostly held aside from big events. He's in his own

1202
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 1: little world, running street level. He doesn't have to punch

1203
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: Thanos or anything. You know, it's not fucking around with

1204
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 1: the beyonder when you know world dimensional interactions happen. He's

1205
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 1: really not involved in that. He's just like, hey, I'm

1206
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,560
Speaker 1: keeping the streets of Hell's Kitchen clean.

1207
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 4: That's it.

1208
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: And then two that's the place where they put like

1209
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: the up and coming, really really good comics writer. Often

1210
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: it will put them there and say okay, let's see

1211
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: what you got, and then they.

1212
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 4: Just turn out to always deliver.

1213
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: Oh it sounds sound like that would be a good

1214
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: place for you.

1215
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 2: I think you're right, Jason, up and coming new comic

1216
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 2: writer who needs to show that he can deliver.

1217
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 3: It's time. I'm ready and he do.

1218
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: He's written, he's written several several well regarded novels. He's

1219
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 1: already writing comics. But can he do it this time?

1220
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: Can he do it again?

1221
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: Can he.

1222
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 4: Turn He's turned out an m b E.

1223
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: Who is this guy?

1224
00:58:58,760 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 4: To be continued?

1225
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 5: Just because you said you could write there, devil nick

1226
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 5: case doesn't mean you should look call me Marvel. You

1227
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 5: know where I live. Actually, Marvel, you can come over.

1228
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 2: Marvel's the only people who turn up.

1229
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 4: Well, thanks so much for joining.

1230
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 5: Us, Thank you so much for having me.

1231
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 4: Big thank you to Nikesha. And that's it for us.

1232
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 4: Rosie any plugs, Yes, you.

1233
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: Can find me as always Rosie marks on Instagram and letterbox.

1234
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 2: I'm here twice a week and on Saturday, tenth of

1235
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 2: June I will be at Universal City Walk doing a

1236
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 2: signing for my Godzilla comic with Nick Marino, and we

1237
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: will be at T four, which is Things from Another World,

1238
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: a really fun comic shop owned by dark Horse Comics.

1239
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 2: So if you're in the Valley, if you've never come

1240
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: down to the South Bay for any of our signings,

1241
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 2: you can find us there. Also, if you're in the SGV,

1242
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 2: you can go to Nostalgia Comics. We did a really

1243
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: fun Spider Verse inspired our exhibition, and I did a

1244
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: big piece of Hobie Brown. So spider Punk Forever.

1245
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is taking a week off for many

1246
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: similar vacations. There'll be no episodes next week on either

1247
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 1: June fourteenth or sixteenth. We'll be back rested and ready

1248
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: with more deep dives and theories on June twenty.

1249
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: First subscribe on YouTube so you can keep up with

1250
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: us while you miss us. While we're on vacation. You

1251
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: can watch full episodes of the show.

1252
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 3: There, and if you check out our discord, you.

1253
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: Can hang out with loads of cool fans who love

1254
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 2: all the same stuff as you, same stuff as us.

1255
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: I'm with us sometimes too.

1256
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: Five star ratings, five star reviews, We need them.

1257
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 3: You gotta give it to us.

1258
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: Here's one from Naroho forty four, best pot out there.

1259
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 1: This pod, which has allowed me to fully embrace my Internet,

1260
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: has become my favorite to listen to by far. Jason

1261
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: and Rosie seem like genuinely great people. Well, thank you,

1262
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: thank you, and they cover all the movies and shows

1263
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,439
Speaker 1: I watch, providing great fan level deep dives. They've also

1264
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: helped me rediscover my lovel comics and graphic novels. I

1265
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,919
Speaker 1: appreciate their suggestions for additional reading, viewing, and listening. Thank

1266
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: you so much, Narojo forty four, See you next time.

1267
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 4: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1268
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rumin

1269
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Jason Concepcion. Our editing at

1270
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: sound design is by Facillis Fatopoulos. Video production by Delon

1271
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: Villanueva and Rachel Gaieski. Social media by Awa Oklatti and

1272
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: Caroline Dunfe. Thank you to Brian Basquez for our theme music.