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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing where to turn for debt and

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Speaker 1: budget help with Thomas Nichi, Yeah, Juel. In his early twenties,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Nichi, he found himself in loads of debts. Like

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Speaker 1: so many folks, he didn't learn how credit cards really worked,

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Speaker 1: and so the charges began to add up, and before

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Speaker 1: he knew it, he had an overwhelming balance that he

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Speaker 1: could barely make minimum payments on. And then a couple

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Speaker 1: that consumer spending with student loans, a card payment, a mortgage,

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Speaker 1: and then the final kicker, getting laid off and losing

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Speaker 1: his income. Thomas found himself in a really stressful spot,

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Speaker 1: but he was able to move from a place of

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Speaker 1: desperation to using his experience to help others. He now

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Speaker 1: works for Money Management International, which is the largest provider

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Speaker 1: of nonprofit financial counseling and education in the United States.

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Speaker 1: He's all about conversations around money and de stigmatizing debts,

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Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to do today. So Thomas,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us on the podcast. Man, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Thomas. We're

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Speaker 1: glad to have you. By the way, Matt and I

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Speaker 1: we drink a beer every week on the show, and

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Speaker 1: it's to signify that we sport on something we love

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Speaker 1: right now while also at the same time trying to

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Speaker 1: save and invest well for the future. Today on the show,

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Speaker 1: we're drinking Experimental I p a volume thirteen by a

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Speaker 1: local homebrewer called easy Chair Brewing Garage. So I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you, what's your craft beer, what's your equivalent?

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Speaker 1: What do you sploreage on right now while you're saving

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Speaker 1: for your future? Absolutely well, I love dark beer and

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Speaker 1: I love wheat beer, but I wouldn't say that's my splurge.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, beer's pretty affordable, and I don't

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Speaker 1: go to overboard. But I would say that I splurge

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Speaker 1: on travel, at least during times when we're not experiencing

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Speaker 1: a pandemic. I travel about once a month to various places.

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Speaker 1: My partner owns a time share at the Atlantis and

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Speaker 1: the Bahamas, and so we go there pretty regularly and

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Speaker 1: doesn't always have to be that fancy though. I'll go

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Speaker 1: to the lake a lot nearby in the summertime and

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Speaker 1: just love to get out and see new places and spaces.

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Speaker 1: So nice. Uh so, yeah, well maybe where is maybe

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Speaker 1: some of the more adventurous spots have have you been? Like?

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Speaker 1: Do you do? You do you go abroad much as

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Speaker 1: far as to like some of those countries that some

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Speaker 1: folks have never I guess been to or heard of. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So my partner works for a nonprofit music oriented nonprofit

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Speaker 1: and they tour US bands overseas, and so I would

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Speaker 1: say the most adventurous was when I joined him on

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Speaker 1: one of those tours in Belize. It was a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun and got to see a lot of cool places,

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Speaker 1: got lost by myself a few times. It's all fun

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Speaker 1: in a strange, you know, country, but that was a

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Speaker 1: really cool experience. I don't travel internationally as much as

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Speaker 1: I would probably like because I do help take care

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Speaker 1: of family back here in Illinois, and so it makes

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Speaker 1: me a little nervous to travel that far. But I

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Speaker 1: do travel domestic quite a bit, and to the Bahamas

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Speaker 1: very cool. You know, Joe and I we both have

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Speaker 1: little kids, little babies at home these days, so travel

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Speaker 1: isn't something that we are doing very often these days.

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Speaker 1: But obviously, like you said, I'm sure that's something that

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Speaker 1: you're not even doing all that much these days. I

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Speaker 1: think I saw something like airline travels down at this point.

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Speaker 1: Nobody's traveling right now. You can't even get a direct flight.

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Speaker 1: In my partner with saying he can't get a direct

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Speaker 1: flight from here to d C. Right now from St.

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Speaker 1: Louis a DC, you can't even get a direct anymore.

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Speaker 1: So that's crazy man. Well, Thomas, we really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: joining us. Uh, we kind of wanted to start at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of your relationship with money really, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of your store. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: pretty familiar one. In your twenties, you got into credit

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Speaker 1: card trouble. Can you kind of recount that story, like

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Speaker 1: how did all that happen? Yeah? For sure, So I

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Speaker 1: would say even earlier than that, because I'm now going

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Speaker 1: on forty one, and you know, back in the day,

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Speaker 1: the credit card companies could market to you when you

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Speaker 1: were at junior college, right, um, and give you a

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Speaker 1: free T shirt with a credit card application, that sort

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Speaker 1: of stuff, which they were not allowed to do anymore. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I had eighteen, nineteen years old. They handed

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Speaker 1: me a platinum credit card with a ten thousand dollar limit,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think I was making ten thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: a year at that point, so that is sort of

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Speaker 1: the slippery slope that I started down. I came from

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Speaker 1: a religious family, and the extent of my credit education

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Speaker 1: was the debt is bad, with no real explanation of

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Speaker 1: of why. So like any good teenager, I rebelled and

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Speaker 1: got a credit card and started using it. So um

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Speaker 1: that that's sort of where it all started for me,

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Speaker 1: and then it just sort of snowballed from there. Like

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Speaker 1: I was in the process of coming out when I

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Speaker 1: was in my late teens early twenties, and I um

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Speaker 1: exited my living situation with my family rather hastily and

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Speaker 1: under those sort of pressures, and um kind of had

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Speaker 1: to just build my life from scratch, and unfortunately, credit

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Speaker 1: cards had to sort of support that process because I

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Speaker 1: wasn't getting that support from from family or or anybody else.

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Speaker 1: So that's sort of where it all start hearted for me,

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Speaker 1: and then just over the years it just never really

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Speaker 1: went away. I managed it, but I never really got

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Speaker 1: it paid off. And even up until the time that

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Speaker 1: I owned my first house and then my second house,

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Speaker 1: I still had sort of like nagging credit card debt

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Speaker 1: and then when the recession hit in two thousand seven,

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Speaker 1: is when I got laid off and I went from

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Speaker 1: a high paying job at a at a global financial

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Speaker 1: services company and then came to what was then clear

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Speaker 1: Point and nonprofit and took a substantial pay cut, and um,

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Speaker 1: it was during the recession, and things got pretty ugly

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Speaker 1: for me. So I had to take steps to improve

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Speaker 1: my situation and find my footing and and get all

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Speaker 1: that under control. Wow. That that's a big story in

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Speaker 1: a short amount of time. That is the reader's digest.

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Speaker 1: That is, Yeah, that's about a decade of financial journey

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Speaker 1: in sixty seconds. The yeah, I mean, I can't imagine that.

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Speaker 1: The personal difficulty, and you know, the financial difficulty just

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Speaker 1: seems almost paling comparison to I'm sure some the other

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Speaker 1: things you were going through. But you know, we we

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Speaker 1: do want to talk more about the financial stuff. What

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Speaker 1: what were the major steps that you took in order

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Speaker 1: to stay afloat and pay off your debt while you

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Speaker 1: lost your job and you were going to you took

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Speaker 1: a substantial paket, Like how are you staying afloat? Right?

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Speaker 1: So I really just I took a look pretty much

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Speaker 1: at every expense I had, and any expense that I

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Speaker 1: had either I had to cut or figure out how

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Speaker 1: to reduce. And that ranged from living with three people

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Speaker 1: at one point I had Unfortunately I had a four

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Speaker 1: bedroom house, so I was able to sublet rooms, so

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Speaker 1: I had other people living in my house. I sold

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Speaker 1: a car and bought a ten year old car, one

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Speaker 1: that I could pay cash for and not have a

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Speaker 1: loan on um, and had insurance, you know, like took

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Speaker 1: some some sort of you know, gig sort of work,

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Speaker 1: just anything I could possibly think of, any non essential,

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Speaker 1: any bill that I had. I was calling to negotiate

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Speaker 1: things and and cut memberships and cut subscriptions, and it

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Speaker 1: really just took a pruning sharia to a whole the

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Speaker 1: whole budget um, which is, you know, similar to what

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Speaker 1: we recommend our clients do when they're facing those situations.

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Speaker 1: But you know, that was sort of how I tried

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Speaker 1: to write the ship, so to speak. And then all

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Speaker 1: I was one of the first people to get a

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Speaker 1: homeland modification through the HAMP program the amount of Federal

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Speaker 1: Modification program back in two tho nine, and so that

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Speaker 1: helps substantially reduce my mortgage payment. So in addition to

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Speaker 1: the other cuts I had made and the added income

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Speaker 1: from the um subletting, I was able to stay afloat

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Speaker 1: and fortunately never never missed a payment on anything credit card, student, loan, mortgage,

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Speaker 1: UM in the process. So that was that was really

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Speaker 1: good because I was able to maintain my credit and

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Speaker 1: m have managed to do that over the years. So

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Speaker 1: you're mentioning subletting. These days, a lot of folks are

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Speaker 1: calling that house hacking, right, And it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: an extreme step I think for a lot of folks

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Speaker 1: to kind of change their living situation, going from I

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Speaker 1: own this house myself to oh, now I have roommates.

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Speaker 1: But that can make a huge difference on the absolute

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Speaker 1: of your expenses every single month. Like how did you

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Speaker 1: get to that point? Like how did you think that, Like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I I can get roommates, Like that's an option for me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think it might have been a little bit easier

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Speaker 1: for me for a couple of reasons. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you know, keep in mind that I was substantially younger

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Speaker 1: than I was also a single guy, and I had

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Speaker 1: also pretty much always had at least one roommate anyway,

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Speaker 1: as long as I had moved out from my parents

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Speaker 1: back in the day. So it really wasn't a huge

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Speaker 1: big of a deal for me, is it probably would

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Speaker 1: be for somebody who lives alone or who just lives

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Speaker 1: with a partner. Right, It was really just a matter

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Speaker 1: of adding more roommates. Um I pretty much always had

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Speaker 1: at least one, So that wasn't too big of a

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Speaker 1: jump for me. You know, obviously it comes with stresses,

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Speaker 1: and there's personality conflicts and the other person's financial situation

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Speaker 1: that you've got to accommodate. You know, sometimes as well,

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Speaker 1: it's just piling up in the sink right right, right,

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Speaker 1: So but you know it, fortunately it worked out for me,

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Speaker 1: and between that and the modification, it was it kept

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Speaker 1: everything on track and it really really got me through

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Speaker 1: that time. I also did do temporary um hardship forbearance

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Speaker 1: on the student loans, so that helped as well, suspending

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Speaker 1: those payments. But you know, ultimately I was able to

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Speaker 1: just sort of cobble together a plan, you know, between

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Speaker 1: all these various little little pieces, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: was looking at things that worked ten twenty bucks a month, right, No,

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Speaker 1: no stone was really going unturned as far as things

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Speaker 1: that I could I could try. But you know, fortunately

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Speaker 1: I was only actually out of work for I think

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Speaker 1: two or three weeks. UM. I took at tempt job

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Speaker 1: temporarily in between my previous job where I had been

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Speaker 1: seven years and where I am now, and I've been

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Speaker 1: here I guess twelve is years. So fortunately it didn't

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Speaker 1: take me long to find another position. Even though it

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Speaker 1: was a lower paying job, I was able to find employment,

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Speaker 1: which is you know, I'm very thankful for that because

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of people at that time that

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Speaker 1: we're having a very hard time finding jobs. And when

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Speaker 1: I came to what was then clear point that's what

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Speaker 1: I was doing was counseling people who were really experiencing

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Speaker 1: the same thing that I had just been through. So

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, really helpful for me to have

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Speaker 1: experienced that personally. While it was painful, it was very

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Speaker 1: helpful for the perspective of saying, listen, if I can

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Speaker 1: do this, you can do this, here's what you need

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Speaker 1: to do, here's what I did, that's what worked for me.

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Speaker 1: Let's figure this out together. And it was it really

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Speaker 1: made for a much easier time creating that rapport with

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Speaker 1: my clients during that UM time during the recession. To

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Speaker 1: have had that personal experience. Yeah, and Thomas, you actually

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Speaker 1: went from someone being counseled at clear Point to working

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Speaker 1: for clear Point. And I've heard you say before that

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Speaker 1: the hardest thing for people to do oftentimes is to

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Speaker 1: take the first step to come in and seek help.

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Speaker 1: So how are you able to take that first step

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Speaker 1: to find it and receive help from a not non

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Speaker 1: for profit credit counseling company. What made you decide this

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Speaker 1: is the step I have to take right now? I

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Speaker 1: would say a couple of things. First of all, like

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Speaker 1: I said, I was exploring every option, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if it's a nonprofit and they can give

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Speaker 1: me some advice, let's see what they have to say.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't have to do anything based on

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Speaker 1: their advice, but let's see what they have to say.

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Speaker 1: And here in the St. Louis area, it used to

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Speaker 1: be called Consumer Credit Counseling SERVI says, and I was

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Speaker 1: familiar with that name from way back in the day.

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Speaker 1: But the funny part of the story is that after

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Speaker 1: I came to clear Point, because of the name change,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize the clear Point was the same as CCCS.

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Speaker 1: And I actually found my myself in our database and

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Speaker 1: I was. It was kind of jarring. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: jarring because I'm like, wait a minute, why am I

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Speaker 1: in here? And then I'm like, oh my gosh, these

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Speaker 1: are the people that I talked to a few years ago. Um,

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Speaker 1: So it's a yeah, very serendipitous or whatever you wanna

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Speaker 1: call it. But yes, I was a former client. I

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Speaker 1: ultimately didn't end up going through a debt management program

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Speaker 1: with clear Point CCCS at that time because I had

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Speaker 1: around ten thousand dollars with a credit card debt. But

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Speaker 1: I talked about it with a counselor and she's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you really just need to buckle down and

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Speaker 1: get your stuff together. Really, it was sort of a

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Speaker 1: wake up call and she's like, you know, you could

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Speaker 1: use our our repayment program if you wanted to or

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Speaker 1: if you feel like it's out of control, but you

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Speaker 1: really just need to buckle down. And so it was

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Speaker 1: really sort of helpful from wake up call into for

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Speaker 1: advice on my other advice on my budget and from

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Speaker 1: that perspective. So I had received counseling from clear Point.

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Speaker 1: I ultimately did end up going through a repayment program

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Speaker 1: with clear Point, but it certainly did help to understand

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Speaker 1: what my options were and to sort of get that

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Speaker 1: reassurance that I can handle it. I just need to

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Speaker 1: really buckle down and organize. Yeah, I bet with a

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Speaker 1: different you know, counselors that that work for y'all just

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Speaker 1: got to be a certain degree of empathy, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's people calling up there in tough positions. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: like that's what you heard when you called up as well,

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Speaker 1: you were able to connect with with someone, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you said that it was more of a wake up call, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think the other reason that it was a

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Speaker 1: little bit easier is that our industry has gone from

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Speaker 1: a very face to face model back and back and

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Speaker 1: when we were founded back in the fifties and sixties seventies,

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Speaker 1: and instead of being face to face, we're now telephone

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Speaker 1: and internet based. And I do recall sitting in a

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Speaker 1: parking garage at a mall and being on the phone

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Speaker 1: with the counselor, and I think that might have been

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Speaker 1: why it was easier for me to make that call

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Speaker 1: as well. Because I didn't have to go in and

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Speaker 1: actually face anybody. I could make the call. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there's sort of a little bit of like anonymity or

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Speaker 1: are pretty action or you know, emotional protection I guess

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Speaker 1: of of having that interaction on a phone call or

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Speaker 1: through a computer versus face to face, it's a little

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Speaker 1: there's not as much fear of judgment or um, you know,

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Speaker 1: getting strange looks or you know, whatever it might be.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's another factor that sort of helped

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Speaker 1: me out. Yeah, well, Thomas, it's really cool that you

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Speaker 1: ended up working for the credit counseling company that helped

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Speaker 1: you out in the first place. And we want to

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Speaker 1: talk more about some of the specifics of what a

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Speaker 1: not for profit credit counseling company can do, and also

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Speaker 1: kind of debt management plans, debt repayment help, that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. We'll get to some of those questions right

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Speaker 1: after the break. M All right, Joel, we're back from

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Speaker 1: the break. We're talking here with Thomas Niche about debt

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Speaker 1: and let's go ahead now and dive into debt repayment

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Speaker 1: plans and some of the different help that's out there. Thomas,

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Speaker 1: like debt repayment help. These are some shark infestive waters.

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Speaker 1: How can individuals find legitimate help when they're attempting to

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Speaker 1: pay off a large amount of debt. It really comes

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Speaker 1: down to doing your due diligence and then understanding what

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Speaker 1: debt relief options are available based on your situation. You know,

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot about debt relief or debt consolidation,

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Speaker 1: and to the average consumer that that means one thing.

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Speaker 1: Into that somebody who actually works in the industry it

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Speaker 1: means something quite differently. So when we talk about debt consolidation,

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Speaker 1: we're usually thinking a debt consolidation loan, right, creating a

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Speaker 1: new loan to pay off other debt and consolidated. When

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Speaker 1: consumers here that term, they sort of lump sort of

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Speaker 1: any debt relief into that. Like they consider our debt

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Speaker 1: manager program a consolidation because it does consolidate the payments,

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Speaker 1: or they consider a debt settlement company a consolidation because

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Speaker 1: it does again consolidate the payment. They make one payment

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Speaker 1: to the debt settle my company. And then again you

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Speaker 1: have loans as well. So there's a lot of confusion

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Speaker 1: around what these different types of debt relief are. Um

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Speaker 1: So one of the projects that I had at at

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Speaker 1: clear point was, you know, helping consumers understand those differences

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Speaker 1: and those nuances of what options are available. We created

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Speaker 1: an Ultimate Debt Relief Guide that sort of gives the

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Speaker 1: pros and cons of each one of these to help

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Speaker 1: people understand that, you know, based on the type of

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Speaker 1: debt they have and where they are, what the status

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Speaker 1: of the debt is, what the best option for them

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Speaker 1: is based on that, you know, it can range anywhere

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Speaker 1: from doing a debt snowball and just getting more organized,

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Speaker 1: and your personal finances can range all the way up

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Speaker 1: to bankruptcy. There's a sort of a flow chart of

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Speaker 1: like where range very wide, range right. And if you're

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Speaker 1: dealing with somebody who's a you know, in the in

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Speaker 1: the for profit industry, or who is working on commission

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Speaker 1: or whatever it might be, they're obviously going to be

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Speaker 1: motivated to sell you on what they are selling you.

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Speaker 1: If you go to a bankruptcy attorney, they're gonna want

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Speaker 1: you to file bankruptcy. If you contact a debt settlement company,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna want you to file a settlement. Just understanding

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Speaker 1: that and looking up reviews, looking for of people who

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Speaker 1: have used that service, looking to objective sources of advice,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau or any other

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Speaker 1: number of um government or nonprofit or thank tank sort

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Speaker 1: of organizations so that you're not relying on advertisement or

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Speaker 1: somebody who's trying to push their product. Right. Yeah, even

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Speaker 1: a Google ad can be presented in front of information, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of the worst places. Right. But on

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Speaker 1: the other hand, a simple Google search can also raise

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Speaker 1: a lot of flags. I can't tell you how many

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Speaker 1: people would contact me during the recession who were who

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Speaker 1: had gotten tangled up with a debt settlement company or

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Speaker 1: a complete scam like somebody outside the country who was

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Speaker 1: promising to relieve them of debt for a fee if

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Speaker 1: they would wire them money to Canada. Right. And then

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Speaker 1: you know, a simple Google search of the name of

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Speaker 1: the company that that they were thought they were dealing

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Speaker 1: with would reveal that it was a scam like off

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Speaker 1: report dot com. And consumers are constantly posting about websites

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Speaker 1: that have scanned amount of money. Yeah. And and the

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Speaker 1: other thing is to go ahead and get a second opinion.

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Speaker 1: You know, just because you spent an hour on the

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Speaker 1: phone with somebody and you think that's the right plan

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Speaker 1: for you, don't hesitate to reach out to somebody else

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Speaker 1: and educate yourself and and you know, get all your

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Speaker 1: options down on paper, get two or three options down

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Speaker 1: on paper, and then make a decision on what you

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Speaker 1: want to do based on all the information. So, just

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Speaker 1: to kind of hammer the point home here, Thomas, like

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Speaker 1: these for profit oftentimes companies, they make a lot of

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Speaker 1: claims about what they can do, how they can help

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Speaker 1: you with your debt. What are some of the worst

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Speaker 1: things that you've seen for profit companies due to take

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Speaker 1: advantage of people. Right, So, the biggest thing historically we've

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Speaker 1: seen with at least debt settlement companies and what they

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Speaker 1: call credit doctors who are promising to improve your credit

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Speaker 1: um is that they make these claims, right, we can

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Speaker 1: settle your debt for pennies on the dollar. But then

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Speaker 1: what they don't often explain is how they work, which

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Speaker 1: is that you quit paying your creditors and they don't

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Speaker 1: pay your creditors either, and you make payment to the

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Speaker 1: um that they then hold in escrow until there's enough

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Speaker 1: in that account to offer the creditor a settlement once

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Speaker 1: it's in collections. So it would come to a great

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Speaker 1: surprise to many of my clients who would reach out

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Speaker 1: to me and be like, well, they're not paying my bills,

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Speaker 1: why aren't they paying my bills, and I'm like, well,

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Speaker 1: they're a debt settlement company, and here's how debt settlement works,

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Speaker 1: and here's some information you can read about it. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna stop paying until there's enough to settle. That's their

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Speaker 1: whole thing is settling the debt. And if you're currently

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Speaker 1: paying a credit card company, that credit card companies likely

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Speaker 1: not going to agree to a settlement because they're getting

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Speaker 1: their payment. You have to stop paying and go to

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Speaker 1: get into collections, get into a collection status before you

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Speaker 1: can do a settlement. So it's really a lot of

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Speaker 1: education and just um telling people how that actually works. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're talking about educating, you know, the folks

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Speaker 1: who are coming to you. It seems that one of

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Speaker 1: the biggest differences maybe between a nonprofit like you guys,

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Speaker 1: and a scam company or even a for profit company,

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Speaker 1: is that nonprofits seek to educate consumers versus you know,

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Speaker 1: just a for profit company essentially just viewing their you know,

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Speaker 1: the consumer as more as customers, right right, And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean like it sounds like education is a really

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Speaker 1: important step, a really important sort of prong of of

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Speaker 1: what it is that y'all offer your your clients exactly,

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Speaker 1: and that's why and how we operate as a nonprofit.

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Speaker 1: So with every client that we counsel, we provide them

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Speaker 1: with education and an action plan as far as what

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Speaker 1: they might do next, what are the next steps for you?

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Speaker 1: And in that action plan, we're usually giving giving them

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Speaker 1: a few different options that they have that they can

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Speaker 1: choose for themselves what is best. And obviously that will

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Speaker 1: often include, if appropriate, what we offer long term in

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Speaker 1: a debt management program. But if it's not appropriate based

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Speaker 1: on where that person is, if they have all collection debt,

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Speaker 1: for example, or if they're so underwater that they really

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Speaker 1: need to seek legal advice, we're going to tell them that.

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Speaker 1: Or if they should do a settlement but they should

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Speaker 1: just work with the creditor directly on a settlement, we're

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Speaker 1: going to tell them that as well. So, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: really is all about education and giving the person the

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Speaker 1: right advice based on a snapshot of where that person

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Speaker 1: is right now in their financial journey. So that is

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Speaker 1: really what we're trying to capture. We gather something like

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Speaker 1: two h to points during a counseling session, and the

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Speaker 1: reason that we're capturing all that information is to determine

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Speaker 1: a financial snapshot of where that person is at so

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Speaker 1: that we can make the appropriate suggestions. Thomas, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: credit doctors or credit repair services too, and it's really nice.

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Speaker 1: We all want to think that we can get something

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Speaker 1: done in no time, resolve an issue with with very

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Speaker 1: little effort on our parts, and that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: some of these repair services claim to do. They promise

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Speaker 1: a lot, but they oftentimes don't deliver very much. So

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen these credit repair companies deliver meaningful results?

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Speaker 1: And what is the best way for people to actually

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Speaker 1: start repairing their credit in your opinion? Right, So, a

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Speaker 1: credit doctor is like so many things. Yeah, you might

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Speaker 1: find one that has good reviews and that is effective

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Speaker 1: in getting your credit score increase, But the best way

432
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: to do something is not always the easiest way to

433
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: do something. And when you need good credit, when you

434
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: want to buy a house or a car or whatever,

435
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 1: you shouldn't start thinking about that the week you want

436
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: to buy that thing, right, you need to be thinking

437
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: about that months, if not years, in advance, and you

438
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 1: need to be creating good financial habits um creating good

439
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: relationships with your creditors long before you try to accomplish

440
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 1: the financial goals that you are, life goals that you

441
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 1: want to accomplish. How a credit doctor works is they

442
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 1: capitalize on those people who don't do that, which unfortunately

443
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: is many of us. We like to procrastinate. Right, So

444
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: a credit doctor says, hey, I can get your credit

445
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: score up fifty points in the next two months or

446
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I don't know, you know, that's just

447
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 1: an example. They may be able to do that, and

448
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: they do that by disputing anything negative that's on your

449
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,439
Speaker 1: credit report. The problem with that is that if that

450
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 1: debt is then sold again in the future, it can

451
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 1: show back up on your credit report months or years

452
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,480
Speaker 1: down the road. So it's not to say that they

453
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 1: are completely ineffective, because that would not be truthful, but

454
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: they are not necessarily the most appropriate or best way

455
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: from a financial management long term financial management standpoint to

456
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: be conducting your your financial business. Just like in your job, right,

457
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 1: if your boss tells you to do a task, there's

458
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: going to be the easy way, and there's gonna be

459
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: the right way most likely, And if you want to

460
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 1: have a successful career or want to have a good

461
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 1: relationship with your boss, um, you probably shouldn't take the

462
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: easy path. So for yourself, Thomas, I like the easy path. Well, hey,

463
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,200
Speaker 1: okay when appropriate, Yes, easy when appropriate. But in many

464
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: cases we all know that the easy you know, the

465
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: the easy path isn't always the best. So um, that's

466
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: really sort of a good analogy to how a credit

467
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: doctor works. It's it's not that they can't work, it's

468
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: just that it may not be the best route to go,

469
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: or it may not sustain you or change your habits

470
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: or really do yourself any favors long term by using them.

471
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: It's sort of like getting a quarter zone shot, like

472
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: on the sidelines. You know, it's like, oh, you know,

473
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: like this will get me through the rest of the game,

474
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: the rest of the match or something like that. But

475
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: like long term, you don't want to keep doing that,

476
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna just wreck your body if you keep

477
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, not addressing the underlying issue there. Speaks from

478
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 1: experience from his m M A days. Oh yeah, I

479
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,800
Speaker 1: don't know, if you see me, I'm jacked. Uh. Well,

480
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 1: so at the times, often like being debt, this means

481
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,479
Speaker 1: for individuals getting like sometimes these shady phone calls and emails, right,

482
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: and so for folks looking to kind of handle some

483
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: of the steps themselves, Like what rights do individuals have

484
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 1: when it comes to dealing with these creditors? Who are

485
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: you know, hounding them? Yeah, so again comes back to education.

486
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: You need to really need to go out and look

487
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: at the fair debt collection practices actually that you know

488
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: what a creditor can and cannot do. Um. You know,

489
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be calling you at three in the morning

490
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: or threatening to show up at your door or send

491
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: the cops or anything like that. You know, if you're

492
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: being harassed, you do have recourse. You can file complaints

493
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: with the CFPB or with your state's attorney general's office.

494
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: You know, you may even have grounds for a lawsuit.

495
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, you need to You definitely need to know

496
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: your rights. On the other hand, you also know when

497
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: you need to take action. If you receive us if

498
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: you receive a legitimate court summons for a court appearance,

499
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: you better show up and explain your situation. And even

500
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 1: if that means even if you can't pay it, you

501
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 1: need to go and explain your situation because if you

502
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: don't show up, if you ignore it, um, they get

503
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 1: a default judgment against you. So there are some people

504
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: you know that our judgment proof they might be collecting

505
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: soul security or disability. They might add own property. There

506
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: may be no way for the creditor to collect ever

507
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: collect that money. But you you don't want to ignore summons? Sure? Yeah,

508
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 1: those are some some good tips. What about what what abilities? Thomas?

509
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 1: Does a nonprofit company like Money Management International have to

510
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: help resolve debt issues with creditors that people might not

511
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 1: have access to on their own. Are there certain specific

512
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: tools and abilities that y'all offer that people wouldn't be

513
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: able to get on their own when it comes to

514
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: dealing with creditors. Sure in some cases. Yes. So the

515
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: way we work is that we have long standing relationships

516
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: with most, if not all, of the major national creditors

517
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: and some smaller regional creditors in what is called a

518
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: debt manager program known as a d MP. And basically,

519
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: if we do accounseling session with someone and we determine

520
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: that they are a good fit for a debt management program,

521
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: we will make that recommendation. I think it's somewhere around

522
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: a fourth of the total people that we counsel we

523
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: will make that recommendation, and if the person decides to

524
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: enroll in the debt management program, we then communicate with

525
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: their creditors, and we know up front what most creditors

526
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: will do by way of concessions. That means a reduced

527
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: interest rate, reduced payment, a fixed interest rate, and a

528
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: fixed payment for the life of the repayment so that

529
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: you're not surprised, you know, you're not ever surprised by

530
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: how much your bill is. It stays the same and

531
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: it locks that rate into a lower rate. So on average,

532
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 1: we're able to lower people's rates to about seven point

533
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: three percent um and it creates a four year repayment

534
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: plan um, possibly longer if you have a high level

535
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: of debt. So yeah, so we set that program up,

536
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: We send proposals to each of the creditors, we get

537
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: their agreement to that. That's probably the primary difference between

538
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: us and a settlement companies that many times the settlement

539
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: company is not getting that up front agreement from the creditor.

540
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: They are defaulted, allowing you to default on the debt

541
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,239
Speaker 1: and then they're hoping for the best basically as far

542
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: as what they're able to settle for. Whereas we contact

543
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: the creditor on the front end with a proposal to

544
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: get their agreement to it, and then the consumer agrees

545
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: to the repayment plan, the creditor agrees to your payment plan,

546
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: and as long as that consumer is able to stick

547
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: to that payment for those forty seven months on average,

548
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: they are then debt free with all you know, whatever

549
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: debt they included on that program. Now, the caveat, of course,

550
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: is that it is for unsecured debts, so that's things

551
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: like credit cards, retail store cards, some personal loans, that

552
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: sort of thing, not anything that's secured, so you can't

553
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 1: put a mortgage or a car or your r V

554
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: or boat or whatever. Or student loans also do not

555
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: work in debt management programs, So that's sort of an

556
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: overview of how that works. Gosh, it makes me think

557
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: just this conversation, is there anybody out there who is

558
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: better served by going directly to for profit companies and

559
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: not going to a not for profit credit counseling place. First,

560
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,959
Speaker 1: I think it's a great idea to get some objective advice.

561
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 1: First reason being that depending on the status of the debt,

562
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: you could be better served with the debt management program

563
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: than doing a settlement. Because as we've found that our

564
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: average client who goes through a debt management program increases

565
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: their credit square by about seventy points in the first

566
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: two years of their debt management program. There might be

567
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: an initial dip because we do require that the accounts

568
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: be closed when they enter the debt management program. So

569
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: as you know, when you close a line of credit,

570
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: that's gonna ding your credit score a few points um

571
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: So there is an initial dip, but within two years

572
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 1: on average we see a sixty credit score increase. That

573
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: is not going to be the case usually when you

574
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: do a debt settlement. Also, it's a good place to

575
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: start with us because if your debt is already in

576
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: collections and we're not going to be able to be

577
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: as an as effective with you with a debt management program,

578
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: because typically a debt MANAGEMIP program is most effective when

579
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: the debt is still with the original creditor. It does

580
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: not necessarily need to be current, but you have about

581
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 1: three months from the time that you default on a

582
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: credit card to get it back in good standing before

583
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: it gets charged off to a collection agency. So it's

584
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: really important to take action in those first three months.

585
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: Reach out, try to do everything you can do either

586
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: contact the credit or directly to get a hardship plan,

587
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 1: especially if you're impacted by COVID or some other um

588
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: economic personal economic hardship, or reach out to a nonprofit

589
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: credit counselor so that we can work with the credit

590
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: card company to get that account rehabilitated and back on

591
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: track and get it reporting positively on your credit report again. Now,

592
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: if you're somebody who's let that account go more than

593
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: three months and you're in collections, then yes, it is

594
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: possible that at that point that credit damage is done,

595
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: you may not be in a position to make full

596
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: payment or what the payment is that they want. So

597
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: it could be in your best interest to to save

598
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: up some money and offer that credit or a settlement

599
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 1: down the road. But that is something that you can

600
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: educate yourself to do, and to a large degree, you

601
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: can manage your own debt manager program that what we

602
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: what we administer, but that requires contacting every creditor directly,

603
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: and our average client has six or seven or eight creditors,

604
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: contacting each of them directly, getting on their hardship program,

605
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: and then making those payments religiously every month individually, whereas

606
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: on a debt management plan, you just make one payment

607
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: to us and we disperse the payments. So in both cases.

608
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: It's not that you can't do it yourself necessarily, but

609
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 1: the terms that you get directly to the through the

610
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: creditor or the terms you get through nonprofit credit counseling

611
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: maybe a little bit different. So it's a good idea

612
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: to see what the credit will offer you directly and

613
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: then see what you're able to get through a credit counselor,

614
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: and if it's better, if it's a better rate through us,

615
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: then it could be worth doing it. Yeah, it's it's

616
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: good to hear that there's actual tangible benefits to going

617
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: with you know, a nonprofit like you guys, you know,

618
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: aside from sort of the emotional support and aside from

619
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: the sort of accountability that you would also receive by

620
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: by talking to a counselor and similar thing with the

621
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: similar thing to credit doctors. I'm not here to say

622
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: that every dead settlement company is evil. No, that's not

623
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: that's not the case. There are certainly dead settlement companies

624
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: that have positive reviews and good experiences. The part that

625
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: I would emphasize is that there's education involved, and then

626
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: if the if the person has not already been sent

627
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: to collections by their creditors, that it's best to try

628
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: to avoid that by either working with the creditor directly

629
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: or going through nonprofit credit counseling instead of further escalating

630
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: it by getting involved with the dead settlement company. Now,

631
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 1: if your finances have changed to the point where you

632
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: just can't make a payment, not even a debt management

633
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: plan payment, then you might need to be considering another strategy,

634
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: whether that's UM saving up for a debt settlement yourself,

635
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: or going to and getting legal advice to see if

636
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: you're a bankruptcy candidate. Awesome, Yeah, that's that's really good

637
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: info there, Thomas. Um. Overall, this has been awesome on

638
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: managing debt. But you kind of hinted at COVID nineteen

639
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: and so we're gonna talk next about this, you know,

640
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 1: the great lockdown, and how that is affecting our money, Uh,

641
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: specifically how that's affecting our debt. We'll get to that

642
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: right after the break. All right, we're back from the break.

643
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: We're talking about where to turn for debt and budget

644
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: help with Thomas Nitchie. Thomas, let's talk more about the

645
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: major issues that you see facing money management international clients

646
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: right now, people that come to you for non not

647
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: for profit credit counseling. You get obviously a lot of calls,

648
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: a lot of emails, and you're getting more. I'm sure

649
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: right now, how have those calls and emails changed since

650
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: the Great Lockdown has basically broken the economy at least

651
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: for the time being. Sure, So we're seeing a couple

652
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: of different channels, different types of people calling in people

653
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: who have engaged us in the past or who are

654
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: in a debt management program now and who are now

655
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: experiencing the economic impact of coronavirus and are struggling to

656
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: make those payments. So with those folks, were helping them

657
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: understand what their creditors might be now offering over and

658
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: above what they're offering in a debt management program, as

659
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: far as a deferment um or other payment suspension or

660
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 1: reduction that might help them get through this time on

661
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: a on a temporary basis um. And then another large

662
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: bucket of calls are people who are calling and are

663
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: concerned about keeping up on their mortgage or keeping up

664
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: on their rent, even if they're not necessarily yet financially

665
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: impacted by coronavirus, they are concerned about what that looks

666
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: like if this drags on and they do experience um

667
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: an interruption in their income, and unfortunately, you know, many

668
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: Americans just don't have emergency savings set aside. They don't

669
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: have emergency saving set aside to sort of get them

670
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: through three or six months of a downturn like this. So,

671
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: you know, we have a lot of really concerned people

672
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: reaching out right now, and then also people who are

673
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: already impacted and are struggling to understand the terminology that

674
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: their lenders are using. So forbearance, for example, when a

675
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: lot of consumers hear the word forbearance, they hear forgiveness

676
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: like if they if if IF they lenders says we're

677
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: gonna give you a three month forbearance. That does not

678
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: mean that those payments are simply forgiven, or that they're

679
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: just going to be tacked on the end of the

680
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: loan or whatever. At the end of the forbearance, you

681
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: actually have to solve for those missed payments, So whether

682
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: that's a lump some at the end of the three months,

683
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: or an application for a modification or a repayment plan

684
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: where those missed payments are split up over say, you know,

685
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: a year or two and then added to your existing

686
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: mortgage payment. Those are actually realistically what what forbearance means.

687
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: It absolutely does not mean a forgiven payment. Tom's have

688
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: you seen any like credit card issues changing the way

689
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: that they deal with card holders, you know, based on

690
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: the on the pandemic you have, so absolutely, um, a

691
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: lot you know, a lot of the creditors I feel

692
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: are responding a lot faster than they did during the

693
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: Great Recession. UM. I think they you know, many of

694
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: us learned important lessons during the recession as far as

695
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: how to respond to consumers who are in crisis. And

696
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: so I've been really really um encouraged to see what

697
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: many creditors are doing, not all, but many. The problem though,

698
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: is that there are so as you know, there are

699
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: so many creditors. Um. You know, there's hundreds of creditors nationally,

700
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: and each one is handling this a little bit differently

701
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: and has different policies, different procedures, different way of um

702
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: getting people into these plans might be online, you might

703
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: have to call in, might be an application. You know,

704
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: they might be offering one month of forebearance for now

705
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: or deferment might be three months. So it's really all

706
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: over the board, and it's making it really challenging for

707
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: both counselors here M I and consumers to understand what

708
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: they should be doing where to direct people. Um, these

709
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 1: processes are slow, sometimes to be spun up, and sometimes

710
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: processes change and we're not advised of that by the creditor,

711
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: and so it is a confusing time for all involved.

712
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: And there's you're seeing a lot of frustration, even more

713
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: frustration now with the stimulus checks and you know, when

714
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: am I going to get my check? And how am

715
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: I going to get my check? And what is it

716
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: going to be based on? And it's a really difficult

717
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,800
Speaker 1: time for consumers right now. We're you know, we're obviously

718
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: doing the best we can to bring some clarity to

719
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: those scenarios as we meet with people. Yes, so for

720
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 1: people that do have debt and they're trying to figure

721
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: out how to get forbearance or deferment, or for someone

722
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: let's say who's got a car note and they're trying

723
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: to figure out, well, what do I do about this

724
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: because I can't pay my car note this month? What

725
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: question should we be asking of a potential creditor when

726
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: we're trying to ask for help right now? Sure, so

727
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: probably we need to back up and talk about if

728
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: you can get a hold of your creditor for right, Like,

729
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: the calls are just astronomical, and we were experiencing people,

730
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: you know, being on hold for hours on end to

731
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: try to get through somebody. So I would say the

732
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: probably the best thing to do at this point is

733
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: to start online and check with the website of your

734
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: various creditors, because that's going to be the easiest, fastest,

735
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: uh and likely most efficient way to get the information

736
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: you're looking for. And there might even be way to

737
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: to apply for that financial hardship aid right there on

738
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: the website. If you don't see it on their website,

739
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: try logging into your account and see if there's anything

740
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: behind the log in firewall. It'll give you more information.

741
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: It'll pop up at the top of the page right right.

742
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: So once you've done that, then at that point you

743
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: might need to start getting on the phone or if

744
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: they're if they have a messaging app or email address

745
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: or something like that, something that's a little less frustrating

746
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: than being on the phone phone for hours on end.

747
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: Trying to take advantage of those routes as well. Nice

748
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: The reason Joel was asking about what questions to ask

749
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: is because he owes me twenty bucks and so he

750
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: wants to know how he can kind of get out

751
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: from from under my thombs. Customer service is terrible, Like

752
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 1: don't even get ahold of the guy that in order

753
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: to pay the bill off, I am slow to respond.

754
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: Facebook page messaging, Yeah, common public. Leave him a bad

755
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: review that'll get his attention. Tell us something about like

756
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: Project porch Light. So that's a part of m m I,

757
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: And how can that sort of project, how can that

758
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: be potentially helpful for people right now? Yeah? Sure, So

759
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about Project Porchlight. It's a program that

760
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: was designed by Kate Bolger here at m m I,

761
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: who's UM in our development department, but she's also a

762
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: former counselor and she's personally experience or her family has

763
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: personally experienced UM natural disasters tornadoes here in my area

764
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: actually a Missouri UM and what she noticed was the

765
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 1: recovery for people who have been impacted by a natural disaster.

766
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: It takes a long time, and there's real difficult challenges

767
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: applying for FEMA aid, applying for insurance, help, figuring out

768
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: how you're going to overcome shortfalls out of pocket expenses,

769
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: credit card debt for things that weren't covered by insurance,

770
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: or that any number of challenges that somebody has when

771
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: they go through a natural disaster. So we created Project

772
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: Porchlight and we got funding UM and we got a

773
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: partnership with Fannie May and we operate Project Porchlight as

774
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: Fannie May's Disaster Response Network. So any UM mortgage holder

775
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: who owns a home that is UH, the investor is

776
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: Fannie May, can receive help through the Disaster Response Network,

777
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: which is a Project Porchlight, and basically it gives them

778
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: resources and counseling coaching to get them back on track,

779
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: get them on a path to full recovery, and hopefully

780
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: expedite the recovery. So what we do is we do

781
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: an assessment to determine where they're at right now, sort

782
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: of similar to a credit counseling session, but more focused

783
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: on the disaster, and that the aid resources, see what

784
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: sort of assistance they need, see if they need help

785
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: with UM appeals with FEMA or with their insurance company,

786
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 1: and then let them know about resources that they may

787
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 1: not already be aware of. So when COVID happened, UM

788
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: we looked to Fannie May and to our other funder,

789
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: which is a MetLife Foundation, to pivot project Porchlight to

790
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: people who have been impacted by COVID. Now, obviously there's

791
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: some real challenges here, right because this program was designed

792
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: for regional geological disasters, so you know, hurricanes in Florida,

793
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: tornadoes in the Midwest, fires in California. It really was

794
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: not designed for a pandemic or national scale exactly exactly.

795
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: So that's been our challenge right now, is pivoting to

796
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: COVID and giving people the best possible support we can

797
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: to try to help them understand what their options are

798
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: and get them through this really challenging time. But we

799
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: are really proud of the fact that we developed that

800
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: program um in response to natural disasters and that it's

801
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: now available for people who are impacted by COVID. And

802
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: m m I itself actually was flooded during the Hurricane

803
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 1: Harvey in in Houston, so we do have some personal

804
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: experience from our own experience and from that of our staff,

805
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: and so you know, again the empathy factor, right, like,

806
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: we've been there, we know we've done this, so we

807
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: definitely encourage people to reach out if they're struggling to

808
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: to get the support they need, or if they have

809
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: feel like they've exhausted UM their resources or um have

810
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: exhausted the help that they're getting from their creditors. Well, Thomas,

811
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: this has been just a great conversation. I've learned a lot.

812
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: I hope you know this has been really helpful for

813
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: our listeners too, especially the ones who are having your

814
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: income issues to have debt issues right now. Where can

815
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: our listeners find out more about Project Porchlight and about

816
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: m m I so that they can, you know, get

817
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: help via those avenues. Yeah, absolutely so. Money Management dot

818
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: org is our main website. If you've got any sort

819
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: of budgeting challenges or experiencing high levels of credit card

820
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,800
Speaker 1: debt and need help with your housing, that's the place

821
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: to start. If you've been specifically impacted by a natural

822
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: disaster in the United States, or if you're experiencing a

823
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: reduction of income or hardships due to COVID, go to

824
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: Porchlight dot org um and that will take you to

825
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: the rights. Very cool. Well, Thomas thinks so much. This

826
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: has been Yeah, I completely agree with Joel, like, I

827
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: have learned so much, and yeah, hopefully we're able to

828
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 1: get this info out there and help those out there

829
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: who are also in need. But yeah, thanks so much

830
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: for joining us today. Absolutely, I'm really grateful for the opportunity.

831
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, man, Joel. What a great conversation we just

832
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: had here with Thomas Nitchie of Money Management International. I'm

833
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: so glad that we got to basically pack so much

834
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: information into you know, the short conversation and hopefully our

835
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: listeners are gonna, you know, be better for it. What

836
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: to you stood out? Like? What was your big takeaway? Yeah,

837
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: so it's hard to come up with just one thing,

838
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: but if I had come a lot of ground, yeah, yeah,

839
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: we did, We really did. I think the biggest thing

840
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 1: Thomas I had to write this down when I heard

841
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: him saying, and he said, the best way to do

842
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: something is not always the easiest way, and I think

843
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: that showed in a couple of ways in our conversation

844
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 1: with him. One the easiest way to get out a

845
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: debt is not to sub let every single room in

846
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: your home. He took the hard way, but he did

847
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: that in order to make sure you got out of

848
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: debt in a timely manner. The other thing is when

849
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: you're dealing with creditors, the easiest ways to google debt

850
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: or leaf companies hop on the first one and kind

851
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: of trying to get the ball rolling there. The hard

852
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 1: way is the longer four years slog of a debt

853
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: management plan through a nonprofit counseling company, after having done

854
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: the due diligence, where you've gotten multiple opinions right right.

855
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: And I think that is just such a good thing

856
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: that life oftentimes boils down to the best way to

857
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: do things is not always the easiest way. That's just

858
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: true for so many things. And it's definitely true of

859
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: our money. It's true of investing over the long haul,

860
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: and it's true of getting out of debt. It's true

861
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: of getting a budget together. It's not always easy, but

862
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: doing those things going about it the hard way is

863
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: going to have just a lasting impact on your finances

864
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: and on yourself as a human too. Yeah, man, I

865
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: you know I feel that That's why credit doctor is

866
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: such a a term that kind of stains out because

867
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: you think, yeah, I just want somebody to show up

868
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: and fix my credit, like fix this best, like fix

869
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: all this that I have done over the past ten

870
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 1: and twenty years of my life of neglecting my finances.

871
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: I feels like credit therapist, you'd be like, no, it's

872
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: gonna take a much time exactly. But as we know,

873
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: and we we we seen this in medicine over the past,

874
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, several decades, but a large part of overall health,

875
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: whether it be our physical health or our financial health,

876
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: it's more holistic, and it takes doing the right thing,

877
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: the hard thing, day after day. A lot of times,

878
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: there isn't going to be an easy fix. And even

879
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: after you talk with a counseling company, you know, like Thomas's,

880
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: it could be several years, like you said before, you're

881
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: out of the woods. So yeah, I'm totally with you

882
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 1: for me. My big takeaway, we mentioned how you know

883
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: he said this previously that the hardest step, the hardest

884
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: first step to take is just like contacting a credit

885
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 1: counseling company like this, because there's a certain amount of

886
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: I think shame sometimes that people associate with having not

887
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: handled their finance as well over the years. Right, And

888
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 1: this is something you and I we've talked about this before, right,

889
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 1: but the difference between shame and guilt, right, like we've

890
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: talked about Burnet Brown and how shame is when you

891
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: identify with something. And so if you see yourself as uh,

892
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: someone who's terrible with their money and that's just who

893
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: you are, you're gonna be less likely to take those

894
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 1: steps because it's hard to change who you are, versus

895
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: if you see yourself as, yeah, I did those things,

896
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: I'm guilty, right, But you can change small actions, you

897
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: can change behaviors. It's hard to change who you are

898
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: as a person if you identify with that. But I

899
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: think it's easier to say, Okay, well this is a

900
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: small behavior that I'm going to change, and over time,

901
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: by taking the right step, like you said, you day

902
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: after day, year after year, you're gonna end up in

903
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: a fantastic place when it comes to your your personal

904
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: finances in and with your credit. Yeah, if you just

905
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 1: sweep it under the rug, keep moving along, that problem

906
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: doesn't go away, gets worse exactly. And so yeah, taking

907
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: that step, making a phone call, even if it's just

908
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: that step, it can be a huge relief. And you'll

909
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: also you'll find empathy on the other side of line.

910
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: You'll find people like Thomas who have been through something similar,

911
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: similar rough times, who are there to help you through

912
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 1: your rough times. I love that he's been there himself

913
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: as an individual, but how he mentioned how his company

914
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: has been there as well, like with the floods and Houston.

915
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: It's so valuable to have actually been there when you're

916
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: talking to someone directly and you're kind of hold their

917
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: hand and walk through a situation like that, and it's

918
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: just really encouraging to hear that directly from them. So, Yeah,

919
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: fantastic conversation. And of course we'll make sure that we

920
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: link to Project porch Light as well as and then

921
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: I in our show notes. But before we even gets

922
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: all that, Joel, Um, this beer. This is a fantastic beer.

923
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: This is another one from our buddy Jess over at

924
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: Easy Chair Brewing Garage. The name of this one you

925
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: said was experimental. I p a volume. I didn't get

926
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: the first twelve, Jess. I'm just I'm expecting maybe the

927
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: first twelve where you know, I want you to have those. Yeah,

928
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: he finally got the recipe right on this one. And

929
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: this one has pineapple. This this I PA has pineapple

930
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: in it, Matt, And it was delicious, man, I thought

931
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: it gave it a nice super juicy vibe, had a

932
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: tiny bit of sweetness from the pineapple. Also a tiny

933
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 1: bit of tartness going on as well. So it's just

934
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: this really interesting I p A A fruit thrown into

935
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: an ipa on occasion. I'm not gonna lie. I like it.

936
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: I like some blood orange or some pineapple every now

937
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 1: and again in an I p A. And man, I

938
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: feel like just knocked it out of the park with

939
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 1: this one. This was this was really good. Yeah, man,

940
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: I could not agree more. This was a fantastic one.

941
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: And this is a new England style I p A.

942
00:44:58,080 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: So as we ported, it had that cloudy kind of

943
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: as he looked to it, and I'm with you. The

944
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: first thing I noticed when I when it took a

945
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: sip was that had a touch of tartness, which I've

946
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: had sour I p A s and you know I

947
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: p s are a little more tart and I really

948
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: dug them. So this was a fantastic one. It definitely

949
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: had that fruity pineapple vibe going on, and because of that,

950
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: it lent itself this sort of tropical vibe. And it

951
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: also reminded me of so Easter wasn't that long ago?

952
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: And uh for Easter egg hunt inside the house because

953
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: it was raining for the girls, we had those those

954
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: little Easter egg jelly beans, like these are the classic

955
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: ones with all the classic flavors, not the not the

956
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: Starburst ones, not the Starbursts ones. Yeah. I don't know

957
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,240
Speaker 1: what the brand was, but just on a super Classics

958
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I think it was actually, but

959
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: the white jelly bean was pineapple, and it totally like

960
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: it takes me back to sort of that flavor profile

961
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: because things that are flavored pineapple taste a little bit

962
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: different than fresh pineapple obviously, right, but it totally it

963
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: totally reminded me of that. So it kind of had

964
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: a little bit of nostalgia going on because obviously I

965
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: set some of those jelly beans as a proper father

966
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: should when you when you're loading up the eggs, gotta

967
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: get your cut exactly. It's the daddy's cut. But yeah, man,

968
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this beer. So again, the big things

969
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: to Jess for donating this one to the show. Yeah, Matt,

970
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: I think the best description I can give is it

971
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: tasted like a Thomas Nichi vacation to the Bahamas? Is

972
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: that where you said? Is that where that where they

973
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: guess where they go at? Okay, nice super tropical down there.

974
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: I thought you're gonna mention this is what it tastes

975
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: like in Belize, like, well, I'm not sure if that's

976
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: what you want. Did they grow pineapples and belice? I

977
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they do, Maybe they do. I know

978
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: they do in Hawaii of course. Yeah, But all right, Matt,

979
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. For folks at

980
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: one are shown than they want to find out more

981
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 1: about not for profit credit counseling, just go to our

982
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: website how to money dot com. And maybe you're listening

983
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 1: to this episode right and you found it very helpful.

984
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: But you've also maybe you thought of somebody else, you

985
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: you know, somebody else that might be in some serious

986
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 1: debts trouble all my friends Susie she is not good

987
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: with money, she needs real help, or my buddy Sean.

988
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: You know. Either way, if you have that person in mind,

989
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: we would love if you shared this episode with somebody

990
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: or just the show in general. You don't have to

991
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: necessarily say, hey, go listen to this one episode, dummy.

992
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: You get disrec them in our show to somebody that

993
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: might be looking to do smarter things with their money.

994
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: We would greatly appreciate that word of mouth is a

995
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: fantastic way to help us screw the show and to

996
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: let that other person know that you care about them. Yeah, exactly.

997
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: An email link to one of our podcasts is definitely

998
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: a way to show that you care. All Right, Matt,

999
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time.

1000
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: Best Friends out, Best Friends out. Hey. You know, one

1001
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: thing I was going to mention about my experience before

1002
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 1: I came to m I or a clear point, um,

1003
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: is that when I worked for the global financial services

1004
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 1: that I used to work for, two of my really

1005
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: two of my primary duties were one helping people wire

1006
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: money into casinos off of their credit cards and to

1007
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: helping people understand that they had been scammed by lottery

1008
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 1: like Nigerian priends scams or lottery scam ms or whatever.

1009
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 1: Um those were like two of my primary job descriptions.

1010
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: So it's been a real one eighty for me to

1011
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: come to an organization that is helping people get out

1012
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: of debt and into a better financial space. Um. So

1013
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: I thought, that's another sort of little irony in my

1014
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: story