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Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and

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Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin. Darante is our podcast about the

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Speaker 1: portrayal of women in famous movies. Wow, here we are here,

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Speaker 1: we are something that doesn't pass the Bechtel test. Before

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Speaker 1: we entroy it. I used task Rabbit for the first

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Speaker 1: time today and a hot firefighter came to my friend's

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Speaker 1: house and brought her mattress to my house. And then

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Speaker 1: like we added each other on Facebook. Oh I think

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Speaker 1: I LOVET. So you're Gregnt. No, I'm GREGN. I think Gregnt.

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Speaker 1: I don't know I Well, anyways, I met a firefighter today. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's the Betel So that? Yeah, that for sure didn't

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Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel test, which is a test that you

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Speaker 1: who apply to media for our sake movies. It requires

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Speaker 1: that the movie has two named female identifying characters who

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Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's try it. Okay, Hey, Caitlin, what Jamie? I guess

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Speaker 1: what kind of mattress I have? Now? Wow? Um, what

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Speaker 1: kind of I don't know? Is it? Yes, Queen? Yes, queen? Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a compelling conversation. But that

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Speaker 1: time that passed. If it was a king's size mattress

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Speaker 1: or California king, that would have not pondering our mattresses? Right?

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Speaker 1: Why did they do that? Why are kings extra big?

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Speaker 1: What did they what did they keeping in there? Well,

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Speaker 1: the real question is why are queens smaller than kings? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean less than but also like I

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Speaker 1: think like better, because if you're getting into the king's

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Speaker 1: size bed territory, it's like, who do you think you are?

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Speaker 1: Like what? No one needs this much space? I think

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Speaker 1: king's eye bed. I don't have one, but it's only

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Speaker 1: because I don't sleep with anyone else in my bed.

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Speaker 1: If I was sleeping with someone, I would need a

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Speaker 1: bed that was at least I would say, twenty ft wide.

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Speaker 1: I just don't let people stay at my house. Sure.

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Speaker 1: The thing, I'm just like, okay, well this get out

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Speaker 1: of here, like you can come for breakfast tomorrow anyways,

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Speaker 1: I'm very nurturing and nice. Um. Okay, I'm so excited

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Speaker 1: for the movie we're talking about today, particularly excited for

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Speaker 1: our guest we have today. Her movie came out last week.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be playing across the country. It's called

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Speaker 1: All About Nina and it is a movie. Well, we'll

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Speaker 1: just let her tell you it's right, or director of

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Speaker 1: Vivez Leans for being here, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited and listened for so long. It's nice

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Speaker 1: to be here. Before we get into the discussion, can

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Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about All About Nina

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Speaker 1: for our our listeners. Sure. Um, it's a movie that

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Speaker 1: I wrote, and it's my first directorial debut. Well, I

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Speaker 1: guess the debut is always a first write. It's my

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Speaker 1: directorial problem of sorts. Yeah, feature debut anyway, and it

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Speaker 1: stars Mary Elizabeth Winstead soon to be in a huge

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Speaker 1: DC comic book as well. But she is the titular

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Speaker 1: character and she is a stand up comedian something you

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Speaker 1: know something about. And Jamie worked on the movie as well.

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Speaker 1: It's how we met, which I'm very grateful for. She

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Speaker 1: was our comedy consultant. So you might recognize some of

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Speaker 1: her jokes in the film as well. Yeah, there's anytime,

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Speaker 1: there's always anytime there's a joke about fingering, it's my joke. Actually,

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Speaker 1: that's my contribution. Not to give anything away, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I also ended up having to cut a bunch

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Speaker 1: because I was like, this is getting it's getting to

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Speaker 1: be too many fingering jokes. We could see the punchline.

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Speaker 1: So everyone should see the movie to begin with. But

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Speaker 1: then also, you know, if you if you happen to

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Speaker 1: giggle at a thing green joke that that's my little contribution.

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Speaker 1: I'm told it's raw and it's dirty, which I'm like, isn't.

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Speaker 1: That's just the way my friends and I are. But

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Speaker 1: it seems just like if you go outside of the

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Speaker 1: comedy scene, I think other people seem to find it

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Speaker 1: kind of in your face. Are it's totally rated. Are

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Speaker 1: and it also has the wonderful comment in it and

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Speaker 1: it Yeah, it definitely passes the big deltas you thought

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Speaker 1: about this already, haven't when when you first gave you

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Speaker 1: this group to year, goos like, oh let's see where

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Speaker 1: it did where? And it passes a billion times? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's great, So it's back tell cost approved. Um so

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Speaker 1: so definitely check it out. We'll talk about it again

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Speaker 1: at the end, but today we have a very different

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Speaker 1: movie to discuss because it's the Halloween e month. Now.

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Speaker 1: The movie we're talking about today is Carrie the Brian

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Speaker 1: to pal McCarry nineteen seventy six. Yes, yeah, I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Yeah, it's it's a wild one.

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Speaker 1: But what's your your history, your relation ship with this movie?

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Speaker 1: When did you first see it? I watched it again

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Speaker 1: this morning in preparation of this, but I had seen it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, not a ton of times. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen six. How this is how

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Speaker 1: old this movie is, So I definitely didn't see it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't see it as an infant, although

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Speaker 1: I saw a lot of other inappropriate things. But I'll say, um,

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Speaker 1: horror is not my forte and movies, although I certainly

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Speaker 1: love a good horror movie. So I just didn't come

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Speaker 1: to it until probably I was in my mid twenties

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Speaker 1: and a friend of mine, Zoe, said, oh, you should

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Speaker 1: see it. It's all about periods. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. All right, I'll go see it.

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Speaker 1: It's not going to be the sequel to All About Nina.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we talked quite a lot about bleeding

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Speaker 1: in that movie. But yeah, and then I and then

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Speaker 1: I thought because I had only seen that image of

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Speaker 1: her covered in blood and with the fire, which again

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Speaker 1: I thought, this could go either way, like it could

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Speaker 1: just be one of those silly movies where like women

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Speaker 1: get bloodied up or and then she was like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it's about periods. So I thought, oh, okay, that's different.

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Speaker 1: So then I watched it, and it's interesting because, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Jamie knows this. I was abused as a kid, and

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Speaker 1: so I maybe because I was in the midst of

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Speaker 1: sort of going to therapy and talking about my recovery.

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Speaker 1: I remember the first time I saw it in my

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Speaker 1: mid twenties, it really hit me that way. I felt

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Speaker 1: it was very much about a kid who I mean,

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Speaker 1: clearly she is being abused at home, and you know

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Speaker 1: how far that abuse goes in terms of her own mother.

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Speaker 1: All of that are the things that when I watched

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Speaker 1: it today, probably like fifteen years later, so I had

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Speaker 1: a lot more questions about. I think at the time

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Speaker 1: it hit me more viscerally because I thought, and you

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Speaker 1: guys are probably you know you you've You're younger than me,

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Speaker 1: so you've grown up at a time where again, even

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Speaker 1: though the movie still leave a lot to be desired

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Speaker 1: in terms of for roles for women and anybody who's

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Speaker 1: not white, basically because, by the way, not one non

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Speaker 1: white person in this movie. Actually I think that I

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Speaker 1: saw one black guy in the in the prom Senior,

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Speaker 1: but no one certainly with speaking roles. No anyway, I digress.

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Speaker 1: But but anyway, so yeah, this time around, um, I

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Speaker 1: was a little bit more disappointed in it in the

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Speaker 1: sense that I wish I mean, I'm sure we'll get

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Speaker 1: into it, but um, the fear of women was very

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Speaker 1: palpable in it, and internally the ending of I guess

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Speaker 1: to me that the allegory felt like if you're abused,

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Speaker 1: you're burning hell, and right there was of gosh, there

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Speaker 1: was a few moments where I thought the movie was

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Speaker 1: ending and it actually wasn't. Like the last few minutes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get into it, but like the last

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Speaker 1: few minutes of this movie were such a roller coaster

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Speaker 1: of like, how does this movie feel about Carrie? Where

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Speaker 1: like what is the movie? Because I thought it was

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Speaker 1: like reaching a place where I was like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: seems empathetic, and then at the end it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: just kidding, She's in hell. You're like, okay, great, Um, yeah, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: what's your history of this movie? I lived my whole

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Speaker 1: adolescent in adult life until two years ago thinking that

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Speaker 1: I had seen this movie is like a teenager. And

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Speaker 1: I think it was just because I knew the very

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Speaker 1: on moments of the movie, which is the shower scene

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Speaker 1: where she finds out she gets her period and has

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Speaker 1: a bunch of tampons and pads thrown at her, and

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Speaker 1: the prom scene, which I think I might have actually

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Speaker 1: seen that whole sequence play out, and I just think

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Speaker 1: that I had seen the whole movie. But I watched

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Speaker 1: it two years ago and realized, oh, I've actually never

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Speaker 1: seen this whole movie. So that was a fun revelation

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Speaker 1: for me. But I do distinctly remember seeing the Rage

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Speaker 1: Carrie too. Who wait, when did that come up? No? No, no,

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Speaker 1: the Kimberly Pierce one. I'm not entirely sure it was.

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Speaker 1: I think in early two thousand's uh sequel, let me

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Speaker 1: let me get direct to video deal because I know,

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Speaker 1: because I know Kimpiers remated with Julianne Moore, But I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that yet, so that's actually watching it today.

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Speaker 1: I was, I was really curious about how her treatment

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Speaker 1: of it would change it. You know, Yeah, I haven't

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Speaker 1: seen the make Yeah that was Julyanne Moore as the mother,

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Speaker 1: and that Chloe Chloe Grace Merits as Carrie saying that

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Speaker 1: blonde girl Chloe really doesn't narrow it down, do you

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Speaker 1: think about it? Also, let that reduced women to their

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Speaker 1: hair colors, Jamie, but also but also but I know

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. But I think the other

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Speaker 1: thing is that I read Stephen King's autobiographical like how

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Speaker 1: to Write Books called On. He talks at length about

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Speaker 1: Carry in that book, which I have not read the

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Speaker 1: book Carry, but I did read On Writing, and I

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Speaker 1: just thought that just through osmosis, I must have. I

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I've seen this movie, but it was

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Speaker 1: just that I had been exposed to enough Carry related

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Speaker 1: imagery and stories that I thought I saw it. I

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Speaker 1: think that that I had sort of a similar experience

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Speaker 1: where I wasn't if I'd actually seen this movie or not.

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Speaker 1: I think that mostly just speaks to like what a

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Speaker 1: impact this had on like the culture, to the point

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Speaker 1: where by the time I was like twenty minutes and

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I definitely haven't seen this all

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Speaker 1: the way through. But same like you were saying, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure that I saw clips of it in like college,

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Speaker 1: in like class. It's sort of like that weird saying

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Speaker 1: where I think I know more about this movie through

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Speaker 1: references made to it through other things than like, but

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Speaker 1: I've never actually seen the thing. My experience is this

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Speaker 1: movie is I saw it this morning as usual. But

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Speaker 1: I have had I don't know, I've had a weird

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Speaker 1: lifelong thing with Stephen King because he lives in the

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Speaker 1: same time my grandma lived in it, and so I

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Speaker 1: would like I have like pictures of him when I

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Speaker 1: was a little kid, and I don't know, like he

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Speaker 1: just was like a hero growing up. Even though I

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Speaker 1: haven't read a ton of his books, he was just

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Speaker 1: like the only writer I'd ever met for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. I was like, Oh, he's the coolest, and

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Speaker 1: like the fact that I knew he wrote about girls,

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Speaker 1: even though I wasn't allowed to read the books, Um,

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Speaker 1: I thought was really cool. Stephen King has written so

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Speaker 1: many books that it's kind of hard to have a

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Speaker 1: concise discussion on like how he writes female characters. I

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Speaker 1: haven't also haven't read enough of his stuff to have

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Speaker 1: that conversation. Yeah, let's do the recap. Just read the

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Speaker 1: story and then we'll actually we'll get into more in depth.

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Speaker 1: So many discussions. Okay, So the story of Carrie is

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Speaker 1: we meet Carrie, who is a teenage girl, Sissy SpaceX

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Speaker 1: right love her, What a what a performance. So the

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Speaker 1: movie opens they're playing some volleyball and gym class and

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Speaker 1: then all the girls are showering in a sequence that

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Speaker 1: you know will unpack, and then she gets her period

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Speaker 1: for the first time, and she does not know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: She dying, Yeah, yeah, she just sees blood and she

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Speaker 1: thinks that she's dying. So she starts freaking out and

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Speaker 1: screaming and begging for help, and then all the other

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Speaker 1: girls and her gym class start bullying her, and they're

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Speaker 1: throwing feminine hygiene products at her, which is like what

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Speaker 1: a waste, right, We're taxed on those, like, come on,

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Speaker 1: just throw And the main perpetrator of this bullying incident

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Speaker 1: is this girl, Chris Farra faucet hair. And then the

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Speaker 1: gym teacher comes in and tries to console Carrie and

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Speaker 1: all this is happening, a light bulb bursts and we're like,

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Speaker 1: what's that all about? Then she goes home and we

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Speaker 1: realized that she has a religious zealot for a mother,

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Speaker 1: and I was reading. I think the book she's reading

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Speaker 1: when Carrie walks in is like The Sins of Women,

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Speaker 1: Just like, okay, right, So her mom finds out that

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Speaker 1: Carry has gotten her period and she punishes her for

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Speaker 1: it by locking her in a closet so Harry Potter

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Speaker 1: reference and assuming it came out. So Carrie is the

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Speaker 1: victum of you know, physical, verbal, emotional abuse from her

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Speaker 1: mother and from really everyone around her. Yeah, slapping that

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Speaker 1: happens in this movie is quite slop. Sorry, I keeps fine.

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Speaker 1: So then she goes Carrie goes upstairs after being let

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Speaker 1: out of the closet and her mirror shatters suddenly, and

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Speaker 1: we're like, huh, what's that all about? Isn't that the cue? Though? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the cues are so goofy. So then the girls in

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Speaker 1: the gym class who were blaming her are being punished

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Speaker 1: by Ms. Collins, the gym teacher, and she's like, do

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Speaker 1: this detention with me or you don't get to go

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Speaker 1: to prom and the anyone cares about, right, So Chris

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Speaker 1: is like, I'm not doing this stupid attention, So she

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Speaker 1: gets banned from prom. Meanwhile, Carrie starts to investigate. She's like,

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Speaker 1: glass keeps shattering around me, Wonder what that's all about?

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Speaker 1: Really like this because we just for corded our bonus

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Speaker 1: episode on Teeth yesterday. There are so many parallels. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so Carrie active character takes it upon herself to

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Speaker 1: figure out what the fox is going on. Yes, reads

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Speaker 1: some books, so she finds a book that tells her

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Speaker 1: about telekinesis, So she's like, that sounds like what I have.

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Speaker 1: Then one of the girls who was friends with the

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Speaker 1: mean bully Chris, but who seems to be nicer, Sue Snell.

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Speaker 1: She asks her boyfriend Tommy if he will take Carrie

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Speaker 1: to the prom because she genuinely seems to want to

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Speaker 1: help carry even though she's complicit in some mistreatment of Carrie.

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Speaker 1: That was an interesting, I feel like Sue of everyone

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Speaker 1: for most high school girls, was probably the most relatable

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Speaker 1: character of Like, you're seeing someone get bullied, but you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be on cool, but you also don't

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Speaker 1: want to let this happen and like, what can you do?

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Speaker 1: End it? And so she like tries but Fox, yeah,

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Speaker 1: soue is interested in another male fantasy. Ye, please fuck

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend exactly. So Tommy asks Carrie to prom in

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Speaker 1: a series of scenes that we will also unpack, but

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Speaker 1: eventually Carrie agrees to go to prom with him. Her

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Speaker 1: mom isn't happy about it, but Carrie stands up for herself.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I'm going, Like she made her own dress.

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Speaker 1: She's excited about it, kind of through intimidation too, because

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Speaker 1: her mom knows that, like it's recognizing that Carrie has

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Speaker 1: these powers, and Carrie's like, yeah, I do, so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to prom. Yeah, And we find out some background

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Speaker 1: that the father left, right because she says, your father

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Speaker 1: left for another woman, is what. Yeah, she said your

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Speaker 1: father was evil, to which I didn't know if she

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Speaker 1: was interpreted that the father also had the powers or not,

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Speaker 1: and she just said, no, he just left for another woman.

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Speaker 1: The implication by the end, I don't know, we'll get there,

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Speaker 1: but I questions. Yeah, basically, Carrie's mom is unhappy with

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Speaker 1: the situation, but you know, Carrie's slaming windows and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that with her telekinesis, and she's like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to prom and great, great moment for a young teenage

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Speaker 1: girl coming to her own power, whether it's against your

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Speaker 1: own parents. I mean, there are some really great moments

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Speaker 1: of that for sure. Yeah. But meanwhile, Chris is plotting

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Speaker 1: something that involved with John travel though which I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize that he was in this movie. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: he's plotting against so there there, there's they're scheming. There,

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Speaker 1: there's a pig involved. They killed a pig, lunge of

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Speaker 1: painting each other. There's there's there's a toxic relationship happening there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone gets to prom. Carrie is really excited. She is,

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Speaker 1: you know, dancing with Tommy. He seems to be treating

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Speaker 1: her nicely, except for the parts where he tries to

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Speaker 1: surprise kiss or, which we'll get to. Uh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: at least he seems to he's come or like it's

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Speaker 1: it's no longer like he's doing it aver like he's

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Speaker 1: enjoying his time. Seems like, yeah, the two of them,

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Speaker 1: Tommy and carry when prom king and queen. Because Chris

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Speaker 1: had this system rigged, much like the Russian hacker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: much like most of our recent elections Russian What is

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Speaker 1: this Gore Bush two thousand basically anyway, maybe that's where

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Speaker 1: they got the idea. Yeah, we were like sure, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean they did it a Carry's prom How hard

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Speaker 1: going to be screened it at the White House? Check

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Speaker 1: out the way they throw those ballots under the table.

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Speaker 1: What if we put a thing of pigs blood onto

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Speaker 1: al Gore? We can blame this on Stephen King. I

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Speaker 1: hope it started out exactly like Carry, and then if

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Speaker 1: they had to like back peddle it be like, well,

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Speaker 1: we can't just like Carry al Gore. It is an

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Speaker 1: all white people party. Start of similarities. It is true. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that that's now American history what

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Speaker 1: we just said. Yeah, I can't believe they were going

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Speaker 1: to do that. Allegory seems like a nice guy. So

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Speaker 1: they went from King and Queen and they go up

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Speaker 1: to the stage and that's when the final moments of

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Speaker 1: this plan are unleashed, and this big bucket of pigs

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Speaker 1: blood gets dumped onto Carry and this invokes her to

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Speaker 1: retaliate using her telekinesis. Where there's a hose that's spraying people,

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Speaker 1: she locks all the doors. No survivors. It seems like

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Speaker 1: it seems like she kills everyone then, but she's outside

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Speaker 1: of the doors because I think everyone in the room

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Speaker 1: dies but souele. And then she and then Chris and

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Speaker 1: John travel to get away, but then carries like nope,

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Speaker 1: and she explodes their car right there. There's a there's

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Speaker 1: a fire in the gym. There's all kind of and

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Speaker 1: then so Carrie walks out. She's covered in blood still

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Speaker 1: and then yeah, Chris and what's his name, Billy? I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they blow up? They blow up in their car. Did

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Speaker 1: try to run her over first? And she's like no, they?

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Speaker 1: I mean they you know who misses them? Right there? Goodbye?

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Speaker 1: Then she goes home and cleans herself off, and then

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Speaker 1: her mother is like, oh m, Carrie stab and then

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Speaker 1: she stabs her because she's trying. Anne, I should have

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Speaker 1: killed myself. When he put it in me, pretty tremendous.

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Speaker 1: They I love how and it seems like so consistent

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Speaker 1: with this character and just so creepy. How no one

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Speaker 1: in that house ever says the words sex. It's like

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Speaker 1: it and we didn't do it, and he put it

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Speaker 1: When he put it in me is pretty intense, ye, like,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty graphic. Without naming like it. But yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then well then and also it's unclear at that moment

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Speaker 1: if she was raped or not because the mother, because

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Speaker 1: she says I made him promise he wouldn't do it again.

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Speaker 1: But then she's talking about living in since so I

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Speaker 1: couldn't figure out if the problem was that they weren't

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Speaker 1: married or that he had forced himself on her. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it's open to interpretations in the book, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, the movie doesn't really seem to

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Speaker 1: fallow any which. Yeah, so then the house caves in,

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Speaker 1: Carrie gets stabbed once, uh, and then she starts teleconnising,

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Speaker 1: knives into her crucifies her own christ style, and then

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Speaker 1: the house caves in on itself and seems to be

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Speaker 1: sad about it and brings her down from and then

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Speaker 1: and then the house to hell. They get in the closet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so horrible, and then the final shot is the

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Speaker 1: flattened house basically, and then Sue Snell walks up and

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Speaker 1: she's like, oh no, what a horrible thing that happened

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Speaker 1: to bring us flowers. A bloody hand comes up from

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Speaker 1: beneath the ground and grabs her and she's like, ah,

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Speaker 1: but it was a dream. Right, Oh yeah, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: because then they go back to it and she's still

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Speaker 1: being dragged down. Oh I don't know. Let's watch Rage

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Speaker 1: Carrie too again to find out that doesn't sell out

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Speaker 1: the characters in any way. So that's the story. Let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come back. All right,

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Speaker 1: and we're back. So I sort of wanted to start

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Speaker 1: with how the teenage girls treat each other in this

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Speaker 1: world and and sort of just unpack that there's so

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Speaker 1: many degrees of separation, like this is a woman's story

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Speaker 1: told by no women at all. And I think we've

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Speaker 1: had this sort of discussion before where it's like so

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Speaker 1: many steps removed from an actual woman, where Stephen King

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Speaker 1: wrote it, and then I forget what the name of

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Speaker 1: the screenwriter, Lawrence Lawrence Leonard Cohen, Leonard Cohen, rest in Power,

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Speaker 1: not amazing if he had written, yeah, Lawrence Decohen. And

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Speaker 1: then and then right he adapted it, and then Brian

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Speaker 1: de Palma produced and directed it. And that's like, that's

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Speaker 1: so many like where is any woman? But it's a

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Speaker 1: woman's story. And I think that that is kind of

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Speaker 1: why this movie for me and a lot of movies

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Speaker 1: of this era and even later like the way. I'm

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Speaker 1: happy that there's a lot of women interacting in a movie,

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Speaker 1: but the way they interact is kind of uncanny Valley

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Speaker 1: and doesn't necessarily make sense to me. And that used

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Speaker 1: to bother me when I'd watch movies like this, but

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Speaker 1: then it's like, yeah, it's because it's just what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is how three different men interpret teenage girls bullying

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Speaker 1: each other. And not only that, I mean I had

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Speaker 1: the same thought, and like you, I actually blown up

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Speaker 1: to this shamefully that I have never read any Stephen

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Speaker 1: King books, which well, I don't know. I am curious

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Speaker 1: because I do think he's a really interesting character. I

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Speaker 1: have read some of his on writing. I think his

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Speaker 1: politics seem cool, like clearly is interested in women. I

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Speaker 1: do believe he's been fairly open about his own abuse

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Speaker 1: as well, which is also rare for certainly for men

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Speaker 1: of that generation. So you know, I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of sympathy for him, even though again horror is not

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Speaker 1: my genre, but I love a lot of the movies

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Speaker 1: that have been based on his books. So, like you guys,

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Speaker 1: I also I was like, oh, I wonder what the

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Speaker 1: book is like, and I wonder how he feels about

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Speaker 1: the movie and the adaptation. But several times in the movie,

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Speaker 1: including the famous sequence in the beginning, I today so

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Speaker 1: clearly felt that it was actually, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: some men and filmmakers directors do this all the time, specifically,

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Speaker 1: are unable to talk about their own fears, whether it's

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Speaker 1: about masculinity or women, unless they have women portraying them.

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Speaker 1: And to me that sequence today, I thought, I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you guys, but I never saw a young

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Speaker 1: girls and lockers behave like that. And I don't just

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Speaker 1: mean and I don't just mean the throwing things. I

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Speaker 1: know women can get nasty too, It's not about that,

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Speaker 1: but the way it was more. First of all, the

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Speaker 1: slow motion movement of tits in your face and all

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Speaker 1: of which I know was supposed to be you know,

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Speaker 1: romantic and beautiful or whatever, but it was what it was.

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Speaker 1: But also that like they were like snapping towels on

424
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 1: each other. And I remember at the time, the age

425
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be girls would just cover up like

426
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you walked from the shower to something

427
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: or whatever. But to me, at least, and again I'm

428
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 1: curious about your guys experience, but the being comfortable being

429
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,199
Speaker 1: naked in front of women came later, like when it

430
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: was my friends and you're choosing, Like when you're a

431
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: teenager in high school, the last thing you want to

432
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: do is for anybody to see your tids or you're asked.

433
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: But here they were. It was like a playboy advertisement

434
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: of what they I think what men were seeing as

435
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: oh this is but also probably the way and again

436
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know this from personal experience, but the way

437
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: dudes are right or or maybe in that generation where

438
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 1: in locker rooms where they're much more SHOWOFFI and right,

439
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: they're just sort of mapping typical male behavior onto women

440
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: to basically make it a very like male gaze thing

441
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: where we can see like full frontal nudity, like girls

442
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: slapping each other and throwing like their clothes at each

443
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: other and stuff. And by the same token, I felt

444
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 1: the same way with you know, with the famous shot

445
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: of her period started, I'm like, boy, that is some

446
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: heavy flow for she's just gosh, she's a guyser. It's

447
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: like real man's understanding of what a period is. I

448
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: think that that whole scene plays into, like I don't know,

449
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: from when we're very young. There's always like the joke

450
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 1: where I don't like creepy uncles would be like, so,

451
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 1: like what happens in the women's room, is there like

452
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: a couch in there? Is there like a TV? Is there?

453
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: You know, like like that and and and a scene

454
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: like that. It's almost like, yeah, here's what your creepy

455
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 1: uncle things is happening in your lot there, like when

456
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: we get to reinterpret this like great this is and

457
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: and you can see that it's you know, Brian's fantasy

458
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: of like I get to shoot all these young neubile

459
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: bodies and the same basically all white girls with the

460
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: same body type. The one that's a little bigger whose

461
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: name I forget, but she's great actors. She's the funny

462
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: one because yeah, it's bigger women are funny according to

463
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: But also think and also that the period thing when

464
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: it comes, which again I am glad I saw this

465
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: so long ago, because I do remember I think I

466
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: didn't finish that thought that I think at the time

467
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: I was still so glad to have like any female

468
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: representation that especially if it dealt with something like getting

469
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 1: a period or anything like that, that I was just

470
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: sort of fascinated by that, whereas this time around I

471
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: was a little bit more out of it, meaning I

472
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: was like, none of these and and to your point

473
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: about how mean everybody is. I know that the Amy

474
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: Urban character eventually tries to help her, but I was like,

475
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, this ship happens all the time that women

476
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,239
Speaker 1: have accidents with their periods or you bleeds or your

477
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: pants or whatever, like, we tend to help each other

478
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: out with that, Like even for young girls, it seems

479
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: really weird for all of them to to like start

480
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: just pats on her, especially when she looks as horrified

481
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: and as terrified as she does. Right, And it's relatively

482
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: something that I was searching for in this movie, was

483
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,239
Speaker 1: more practical reasoning for the bullying, because it was just

484
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: like I was hoping for, like you know, later in

485
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: the story, Chris, we would understand like in a clear

486
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: way she's jealous of Carrie in some way, or there's

487
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: some connection between the two other than just Chris. Yes, yes, yes,

488
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: it's never really girl. I mean, we get a couple

489
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: of mentions of how we are she is and how

490
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: she's not like others, but that's mostly coming from her

491
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: when she talks to her mother later saying, I'm funny, nobody,

492
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: I'm not like the other kids, right, and it's it is,

493
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: it's just a little I don't know. I was just

494
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: like hoping for it would have been very easy to

495
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: ground that storyline a little bit of like maybe they

496
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: used to be friends and now they're not, or just

497
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: like a more a clear reason for women to be

498
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: so aggressively mean to each other, because as it is,

499
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: it just kind of seems like this is how the

500
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: writers feel women treat each other would feel about each other. Yeah,

501
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: I think that men have just historically seen whether or

502
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: not they have actually seen this or if this is

503
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: just their sort of idea of what female friendships and

504
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: relationships must be like, but they just assumed that women

505
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: can't get along and and they're always so cruel to

506
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: each other, And then men preferred it that way to

507
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: write that it's like it's easier for them to handle,

508
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: as if we're just like caddy bitches like at each other.

509
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: And I was also taken by the fact that with

510
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: the exception of her mom and the coach, which is

511
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation I'm sure we'll get into, I

512
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: felt like all of the other girls were consistently defined

513
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: certainly by their looks, whether they were naked or not,

514
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: they all kind of looked the same. And then they

515
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: were competing for men and or for a beauty queen title, right,

516
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: like that was the only thing that seemed to be

517
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: of interest to them. And it was like, which also

518
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: seems unrealistic because it's their senior year of high school

519
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: and no one talks about what they're doing after high school, Like,

520
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: as far as they're concerned, their life ends on prem

521
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: Night and then to be it does. The most interesting

522
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: character to me who wasn't Carrie was Sue, where I

523
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: don't know, it's like, you see what she's doing from

524
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: a teenager's perspective, but it's so misguided, right because she

525
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: seems to be wanting to help break carry out of

526
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: her show, but in order to do that, that means

527
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: she has to just start dating, Like surely there's she's

528
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: just like introducing like a romantic component into it. And

529
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: it's like, well, they're like, why don't you just try

530
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: to talk to her? Like, why don't you just try

531
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: to befriend her? Well, that's the thing about Sue that

532
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: that I thought was so interesting was like that she

533
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: wanted Carrie to have a better quality of life at

534
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: this high school, but she didn't want credit for it.

535
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 1: She didn't want it to seem like she had had

536
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: anything to do with it. So in Sue's mind, the

537
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: way I interpreted it was like, Sue feels for this girl,

538
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: but doesn't want to become less cool in the eyes

539
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: of her peers by becoming friend. Yes, also, it wouldn't

540
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: fit the pattern of how these guys seem to be

541
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: seeing these girls because instead, like the quote unquote nice

542
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: thing for her to do is to say, you know what,

543
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: this girl would need to get late or you know

544
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: or I mean, when I was watching it from her

545
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: point of view, like I was thinking about actors and motivation,

546
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: and she you know, probably she's saying, well, I think

547
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: her boyfriend is nice. So she's like, maybe I can,

548
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, sacrifice myself by allowing Carrie to go to

549
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: prom with him, because in another nutty way, you can't

550
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: go to prom without a date, they say in the

551
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: movie too like so so it's a sacrifice for Sue

552
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: to say I won't go, you go, which again is

553
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: sort of another like thing that's expected from nice women,

554
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: right that they make sacrifices like that, why the dude

555
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: also doesn't it's such a weird thing to do, to

556
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: be like, because then he also seems to interpret it

557
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 1: as like now we're boyfriend and girlfriend because he kisses her.

558
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: Think okay, so and it becomes a romance between the

559
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: two of them. So I was like, so, well, what

560
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: happened to the other girl? Like was the agreement that

561
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: Sue is literally giving your boyfriend because they're they're introducing

562
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: a throubled component to their relationship. Well, and then the

563
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: conversation that they have with the coach about it. The

564
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: coach questions and like why are you doing this? What's

565
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: your motivation? And he seems really confused, which was the

566
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: only thing that seemed really realistic to me, Like they

567
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 1: asked him something and he's like, I don't know what

568
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: the fun is going on. It's that scene And then

569
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: it's what you're talking about Jamie with like her wanting

570
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: to kind of like be behind the scenes and this

571
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: whole thing that made me think the first time I

572
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: saw this movie was that Sue was in on Chris's

573
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: scheme and that she they were trying to find a

574
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: way to get her to prom so that they could

575
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: sabotage her, which I thought story wise, yeah, And so

576
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: I wrote this whole set of notes that it's like, oh,

577
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: another teen movie about boys tricking girls to get them

578
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: to proms so that they can play an awful prank

579
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: on them. And then so I wrote all these notes

580
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: about it, and then I was like, oh, yeah, but

581
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: this time, like the schemers get their come up and

582
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: unlike most movies that we've talked about where they end

583
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: up kissing each other at the end. But then I

584
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, that doesn't even have they do

585
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: seem to be innocent. Those two Sue and her boyfriend

586
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: right the only ones who and the male students in

587
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: this movie. I think it's kind of almost an not

588
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: not responsible, but like an unusual portrayal of teen boys

589
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: where they are relatively clueless and basically are And I

590
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: think that this goes into writer's intent and reflects on

591
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: the writer's view of women, whether that be you know, DiPalma,

592
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: the screenwriter, Stephen King, I don't even know, but that

593
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: these two teen boys, whether they're doing something relatively good

594
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 1: like bringing carry to prom or bad, punishing carry it

595
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: prom for no reason, it's never their idea. They're doing

596
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: what a woman is telling them to do, there being

597
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: two for the purposes of this story, manipulated by a woman.

598
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 1: And I think that that reflects on how the authors

599
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: view women well, and also the rage that the Travolta

600
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: character has over being called stupid, because it happens like

601
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: three times that that Chris calls keeps stupid, I think,

602
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: And then he slaps her, and then she's she slaps

603
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: him once. I don't know, it's just and there's a

604
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: lot of shots of her tits too, and among those fights,

605
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: so there is I think again, I felt so much

606
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: more like this is not only a male interpretation of women,

607
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: but a male interpretation of themselves by using women as

608
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: the conduits of it. You know that so much rage

609
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: comes to men if they feel belittled by women or

610
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: not considered fuckable by women or whatever, But it's easier

611
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: to put it on a bunch of girls, right, and

612
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: then like piggybacking on that almost like in the context

613
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: of this story, like blaming their female counterparts for whatever

614
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: it is they end up doing, where like it's you know,

615
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: Travolta's character is being told what to do and there's

616
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 1: that scene with Chris that I mean the scene where

617
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 1: they're in the car and they're fighting, but then it's

618
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: like she in a very classically teen movie way manipulates

619
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: him through sex to get him to do what she wants,

620
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: where she gives him a blowjob and then all of

621
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: a sudden he's willing to kill a pig like stuff

622
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: like that where he's supposed to be blown him. But

623
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 1: she was like, I hate Carrie White, right, I'm like,

624
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: can anyone else speak full sentences with a dick in

625
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,879
Speaker 1: their mouth? Because and also like the thing, and then

626
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: why does she hate her? Is it because they because

627
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: the period thing? They got punished? And then she well here, yeah,

628
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: here's my interpretation of that, which is that we're meant

629
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: to believe that there is a young woman in this

630
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 1: movie who is so hell bent on going to prom

631
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 1: and who was so obsessed with prom that she will

632
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: go to great and crazy and violent and horrible lengths

633
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: to ruin another girl's prom experience just because she blames

634
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: Carrie for not being able to go herself. But which

635
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: which is wild, Like, no one is that about prom?

636
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm sure plenty were No, Yeah, but

637
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: are they going to kill a pig and then dump

638
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: its blood on a poor suspecting the killing the pig scene?

639
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: That just seems really really intense. I guess the darkness

640
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: of that stuff I think would have I think would

641
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: have made for a better movie. And again, such character

642
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: study if we understood, for example, where the Travolta and

643
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: that Chris character we're coming from. Like I'm not saying,

644
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: I mean, if you start thinking about it, sounds like

645
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: some kind of psychosis or something. If you're going to

646
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: go out at night and murder a pig with your

647
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 1: own hands, Philip bucket of blood, like because if it's

648
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: the joke, then just throw fucking paint on her, right,

649
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: Like why does it have to right? But blood anyway?

650
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what they're trying to Um Well,

651
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's a horror movie. You

652
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: have to suspend your disbelief for quite a few things.

653
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: But it does sort of it reinforces this idea. So

654
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: I've talked about this a lot on and we've done

655
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: a lot of teen movies recently. There's a trope that

656
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: really bugs me that teen movies always seem to have

657
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: to end in prom or a spring formal or some

658
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: sort of big affair like that. And I think I've

659
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: pinpointed why it bugs me so much, which is that

660
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: when I was a girl and a young woman, and

661
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: this is specific to my experience, but it I think

662
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: it rings true for probably quite a few people that

663
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: the big milestones that I was taught to look forward

664
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: to and was taught to think are super important moments

665
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: of my life were prom and my inevitable wedding, which

666
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: has not and likely will not happen. But that's a

667
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: story for another time. But um, like social wise or

668
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: your family specifically, it was not so much my family,

669
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: but certainly my peers, my teachers, movies certainly enforced this.

670
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, prom is the short

671
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: term goal, your wedding is your long term goal. And

672
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: like both occasions are like something where you get dressed

673
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: up for there's an elaborate gown, there's a big emphasis

674
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 1: on Yeah, the focus is on romance with a man. Traditionally,

675
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: both our occasions where a woman you know, traditionally may

676
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: lose her virginity at the end of the night kind

677
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: of thing. So these were like the things that you're like, oh,

678
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: as a young woman, like these are the most exciting,

679
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: the most fun great, best days of your life. I

680
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: so you're resent at that, Yeah, I just I guess

681
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: it just bothers me that like not enough emphasis is

682
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: placed on education or career or like creative pursuits. Is

683
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: that for you to growing up? I'm because I didn't

684
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,320
Speaker 1: grow up here, so that was we didn't half problems,

685
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: so I took care of one thing, one last thing

686
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 1: to dread. Um. I have a slightly different perspective on it,

687
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 1: where I don't know. I mean, I've been a person

688
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: who always takes a lot of comfort in rituals, and

689
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: I went to a big enough high school where I

690
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: went to like this gigantic inner city high school where

691
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: prom like it was a deal and like almost everyone went.

692
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: But I don't mind that proms and weddings exist. I

693
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: think that there is definitely value in them as an

694
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: idea and just a value in like coming of age.

695
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: Social rituals, if you choose to participate in them, can

696
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 1: be very valuable for some people. However, I do feel

697
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: that the fact that yeah, like in media, especially that

698
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: that is like the forced narrative of in a way

699
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: that doesn't even really feel that realistic in terms of

700
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: my life, where I would say I was thinking just

701
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: as much about graduation as I was about prom like

702
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: those to be two things that happened close together that

703
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: we're probably at the time equally important to me. And

704
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: that was like, that's fine. I don't want anyone to

705
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: feel bad about wanting to go to a prom or

706
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, go to I mean, I went

707
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: to four proms, so it's not that I was excusing

708
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: to go to them, but I just it bugged me that,

709
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: like there was just so much emphasis placed on that

710
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,239
Speaker 1: and so little emphasis placed on things that I deemed

711
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: to be more important, because like I think of how

712
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: many movies teen movies end and how few movies end

713
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: in a graduation ceremony with a young woman giving the

714
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: valedictorian speech. Like even in this movie, even in that sequences,

715
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: so much time spent on her looking very beautiful, very angelic,

716
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: the crown is being placed on her. I noticed that

717
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: Tommy is sort of to the side, Um, so even

718
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: he seems to like not matter in that moment. It's

719
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: all about but really her looks and or that is

720
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: a symbol of acceptance of herself. That's suddenly because whoever

721
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: has given her this moment, everything's going to be okay,

722
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: right as if like the fact that she lives with

723
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: a fucking insane mother and doesn't know she was going

724
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: to get her period or any of the other stuff

725
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter, and like the movie will like

726
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: you can tell just by that, Like you're saying how

727
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: that moment is presented, like this is the everybody moments

728
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: like yeah something, which I was like, I thought you

729
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: all hated her. Why are you so excited for her?

730
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: Except for the coach, the mob mentality and this room

731
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: is very weird. They're all down for whatever. The bucket

732
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: fallen on his head and knocking him out. I laughed

733
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: so much. It's like an empty two pound bucket. It's like,

734
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 1: why why is that there is that a backup bucket? Grill?

735
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: I guess it was because they wanted to figure out

736
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: if he's not knocked out, can't he try to stop

737
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: her or help her somehow, So they needed to get

738
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: him out of the way. Decoy bucket with the slow

739
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: motion bucket. I do. I totally agree with that you're saying, Kitler,

740
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: where it's like the way that prom and weddings are

741
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: portrayed in media are so aspirational and so clearly I

742
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: mean to sell stuff. Uh, not just to sell you

743
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: on the idea of like her events, but to literally

744
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: sell you items. Yeah, I mean I think that this

745
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: movie that's keeping with its view of women in general.

746
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: I think that it's like it's also saying, like, well,

747
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: what would be the most important thing to ever happen

748
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: to this girl winning prom queen? Because in you know,

749
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: Stephen King Brian to Palma's eyes, Well, yeah, that's what

750
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: all teenage girls want, right, So it's just again, it's

751
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: just like reinforcing this vague idea that no one has

752
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: asked a woman about at all. And earlier in the movie,

753
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 1: Carrie explains to her mother like people think I'm funny,

754
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: but not in a hey, I'm a hilarious stand up

755
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: comic kind of way and a people think I'm unusual

756
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: and weird and alienating kind of way. And she expresses

757
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: a desire to fit in which I think is is

758
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: very normal for that age. Yeah, but then they like

759
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: extend that too. Oh but so she's gonna want to

760
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: be the prom queen obviously, and and yeah, it is

761
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: a very male understanding of what a teen girl must want.

762
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: It literally is. I mean, I think Stephen King was,

763
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: like I think he's in his mid twenties when he

764
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,959
Speaker 1: wrote this or something. It was his first published book,

765
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: but like he's writing how he thinks teenage girls would act,

766
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: and as a guy ten years older than a teenage

767
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: girl who has never been a teenage girl. So and

768
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: I think that that just informs so much about what

769
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: this did. You guys, as teenagers either partake or witness

770
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: in that kind of like that kind of like group

771
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: female bullying. Not that I'm saying that that means it

772
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: doesn't happen or does, but I'm just curious, because I

773
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: was really trying. I've had girls and women being mean

774
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: to me, like one on one, and you know, some

775
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: like look stuff and ship like that on the street

776
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I've never the intense bullion that either

777
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: I suffered or saw was almost always dudes. Which I'm

778
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: not saying women didn't do it, but I'm just curious

779
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: if you guys have witnessed that. I've never seen it

780
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: in the way it's portrayed in this movie, because it's

781
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 1: just in this movie is just violent and baseless, and

782
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: and and it doesn't stopped. It like goes on and

783
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: on and on the and then I mean not just

784
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: in that scene, but then obviously in a long term

785
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: planning kind of way. Yeah, I've never seen a universal

786
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: hatred of a single person the way that people hate Carrie.

787
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think when I was picked on

788
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: in like middle school in high school would be like

789
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: small groups uh same, yeah, like maybe just a small

790
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: small group of you know, four or five people would

791
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: be like, hey, she sucks, right, let's go funk with

792
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: this one. Right. Yeah. I I've never seen it or

793
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: experienced it anywhere close to how it's represented in this movie.

794
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: Do you guys think it's it's a fear of periods

795
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: as well? Like I thought about that a lot because

796
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: her mother fears it hasn't told her about it. But

797
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 1: then there's also again if the girls are actually the guys,

798
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: Like I kept thinking, why are you scared of that?

799
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: It's well, you know, women come not just into their

800
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: so called womanhood, but really it's your ability to bear children, right,

801
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what is also scary to two men

802
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: about it that like now you can't just like fuck

803
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: them in discriminately. There might be a child involved in it, Like,

804
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,879
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's says I see that. I mean,

805
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: it's like the fact that in this movie, the cause

806
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: and effect is like she gets her period, now she

807
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: can do evil things. And then just like I guess

808
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: that's what brought that on, because it's never hinted that

809
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: she she didn't have this power before. It doesn't seem

810
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 1: that way because it starts with the light bulb and

811
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: even she doesn't really seem to know what's going on.

812
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: It's the power of life and death. I guess like

813
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: comes with her period, right, Yeah, like she has. I

814
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: would have liked that if I had gone to my

815
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: period and come canny whatever it's called you kinetic. Well,

816
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: this is and and just because we just watched Teeth yesterday,

817
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: this is where the girlfriend Teeth succeeds. Where Carrie does

818
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: not succeed is she learn it is to harness and

819
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: control her power. And then where Carrie it seems like

820
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: and this is probably a more realistic read of a

821
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: teenage girl one way that I found. It's like she

822
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: suddenly has this new thing happened to her, and she

823
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: doesn't quite understand it yet. And she doesn't quite know

824
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: how to control it. That I think is realistic. What

825
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't think is realistic is that it means you

826
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: are going to hell and everyone dies. But you know, right, yeah,

827
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: the ending of this movie. Sometimes periods feel like that

828
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: that I have felt that way, like locking myself in

829
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 1: a closet as my house just sends to hell. But

830
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that Stephen King or Brian Opauma knew that.

831
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: But I mean there's I thought you bleed with you.

832
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: And there's also that hilarious scene after in the in

833
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: the Whoever he is the headmaster's office with the coach

834
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: where also she's smoking, which I love and more in

835
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: short shorts, and and they talked quite openly about periods

836
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: in a way that I also, well, the headmaster cannot

837
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: say the word, he cannot even he like really skirts

838
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 1: around the issue. But then he's like, who would have

839
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: thought that this term? And age like a young girl

840
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't know about anything, which again is like a veiled

841
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: like slut shaming. Uh. And then her her mother, whenever

842
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: she finds out that carry has gotten her period says

843
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: something like, if you hadn't sinned, the curse of blood

844
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: would never come upon you. And right, I'm like, like,

845
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: you don't have it? Like, right, are we meant to

846
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: believe that her mother is not menstruating? But that's I mean,

847
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 1: but the mother is insane. But I actually I remembered

848
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: my mother telling me years ago, I'm from Spain, I

849
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: was born and grew up there, and I know this

850
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: isn't the only country where that happens, but that when

851
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: she first got her period, my mom and told her

852
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 1: mother that her mother slapped her. And that was a

853
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: very common thing to do because it was it was

854
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: equated with original sin, which they do in this movie too,

855
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: which again is so fucked up. So like original sin,

856
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: being knowledge means that we were cursed by having periods.

857
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: So therefore, like the welcoming into womanhood was a slap

858
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: in the face, which is pretty tremendous. My mom had

859
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: a similar experience where she wasn't hit, but she was

860
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: made to feel very bad when she first got her

861
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 1: period by her mom. Yeah, it's like a generational code switch,

862
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 1: which and I think that there's like probably something between

863
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: carry and and most of us, you know, grew up

864
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 1: generations after this and weren't quite steeped in this carry verse,

865
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: where so much emphasis is put on this stuff. But yeah,

866
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: I just thought I should myself. I just thought I

867
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: should myself. When I got my period the first time

868
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: and I didn't say anything for days, I'm like, I

869
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: can't stop shooting. Yeah, And then like two days later

870
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: my mom was like, is everything okay? I was just

871
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: acting weird? She told you about it prior to this

872
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: or no, no, she thought that, well she I don't know.

873
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: I think I must have known it existed, but I

874
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: never got sex said in school and it happened to me. Yeah, Well,

875
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: here you think are the implicated ations of this or

876
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: like people's like subconscious reaction to this, which is like,

877
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: oh my daughter or this you know, this young girl

878
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: is becoming a woman. That means she's probably going to

879
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: start having sex soon and that's bad and that's impure

880
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: and that's evil and that you know, very like I

881
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: think there's very slot shamy implications to this reaction. And

882
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,919
Speaker 1: that's another maybe generation thing where for Carrie's generation at least,

883
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: it's implied in the context of this story that the

884
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: symbolism of it is like that she is now a

885
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: woman who is you know, like somehow more dangerous. She's

886
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: able to carry a child now, where by the time

887
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: I was getting a talk about when I finally was like, hey,

888
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't ship my my, my mom, and all

889
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: my friends sort of more closely associated getting your period

890
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: with the beginning of puberty as opposed to like childbearing

891
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Like we were just like, oh

892
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: my god, I got my period. That means maybe I'll

893
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: get boobs soon. For of us, that just never happened.

894
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: But like, but yeah, like you should have massaged them

895
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: with soap like carry does in a movie, Like just

896
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 1: broke to myself in a public shower. Maybe that would

897
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: just eggamon. I don't know. Yeah, so much to to

898
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: unpack with this movie. We just we just did a

899
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: tight twenty minutes on period blood alone, and it's various

900
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: interpretations in this movie. Let's take a quick break and

901
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: then we'll be back for more cool and we're back. Um,

902
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: there's still a few key characters we haven't really gotten

903
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: to discuss at length yet, which are Carrie's mom and

904
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: Carrie's coach at school. The coach character, it was really

905
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: interesting to me. This was not a character I was

906
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: familiar with going into I knew the Mom. I knew

907
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 1: that there was like a villainous girl who pours pig

908
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: blood on carry. I didn't know about Sue. I didn't

909
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: know about the Coach, And they would ended up being

910
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: to the for me, like the most thought provoking characters

911
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: because they exist in this in between space where I

912
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: don't know, like, I saw more of myself in characters

913
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: like that than any of the you know, anyone on

914
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: the cartoonish end of the more of yourself on the

915
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: in the Coach, not in the Coach, mostly in in Sue.

916
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the Coach with its coach ms Collins.

917
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: Ms Collins, She's, yeah, the fizz ed teacher. And because

918
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: there are I would say four main relationships that Carrie

919
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: has with other women, and I would say two of

920
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: them are fall on the positive end of the spectrum.

921
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily call them positive relationships, but they're more

922
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: on that end of the spectrum. And then the two

923
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: very negative relationships on that end of the spectrum is

924
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: her mother and Chris are the negative ones, and Coach

925
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: are the positive ones. Yeah, And it's interesting because it's

926
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: for the most part, her relationship with Sue kind of

927
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: plays out unbeknownst to her. Yeah, they never relate to

928
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: one another. No, it's like everything that's happening between them,

929
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,239
Speaker 1: Carrie doesn't even I don't think she ever finds out

930
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: about really, which isn't because she even says, I know,

931
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: you know Tommy asked me, but they're just making fun

932
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: of me because I know she goes with like he

933
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 1: doesn't even say her name, because Sue does run with

934
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: the mean girls, and we see there's like one point

935
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: when they're at like Jim detention. I know, is that

936
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 1: needlessly long male gazey scene of all their bodies doing

937
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: jumping jacks and really crazy like electronic music that is

938
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: so totally that whole scene a minute and a half long.

939
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: Why the total inconsistencies of that scene are wild six comes.

940
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: It's true there is like one moment more slapping in

941
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: that scene too. There is more slapping in that scene

942
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: because female and female violence coins be slapping in this scene.

943
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 1: I just I'm baffled by ms Collins. I mean, I

944
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: don't have. By the way, also to give context to

945
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 1: the young ones as the as the resident old person

946
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 1: in the house, this character, until I'm sure very recently

947
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: was almost always referred to as the lesbian like. The

948
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: assumption was always that she was in love and wanted

949
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: Carrie and that that's why. I mean, I know I've

950
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 1: heard that so many times, which I remembered watching it.

951
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: I was like, do you hence why she's so unhappy?

952
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: Do you think that that is what the story is

953
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: implying or is that just what people thought? I didn't that,

954
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly what people thought. I don't know. Again,

955
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 1: it was also before my time, although I saw it

956
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: earlier than you guys, So I don't know if that

957
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: would have been immediately assumed at the time in a

958
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: way that it is. And now, yeah, there is like

959
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: a trope of women gym teachers and coaches in media

960
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: that they seem to present us being fairly but all

961
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,919
Speaker 1: the way up to Glee, that's why she's always Yeah,

962
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 1: she's always exercising, she's smoking and wearing short shorts and

963
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: making the girls do it and slapping them around. And

964
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: also in another baffling scene, she seems to be upset

965
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 1: at who they're going to the prom with. Remember when

966
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: she asked them, boy, who's taking you to prom? And

967
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: she's like tell me, and she gets like teary eyed

968
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: to invested, which I don't understand. I was like, is

969
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,760
Speaker 1: she into the guys or did she not get taken

970
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: to prom? But then I don't. I mean, I found

971
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: her as a character very baffling. I didn't understand. Like

972
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 1: hearing that does help me a little if that is

973
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 1: what the story is supposed to be implying, even like

974
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: sub textually, yeah, because she is like a character who

975
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: at some points or like I know what she's doing,

976
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: and other points you're like, where is she going with this? Really?

977
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 1: Not sure? Right? Because the first scene we see her

978
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 1: in is when she's coming to console Carrie after she's

979
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: been violently bullied, but she slaps her first, but she

980
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: slaps her and then she tells that slapping that lady. Yeah,

981
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 1: She's like, get a calm down and get a hold

982
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 1: of yourself, and then she apologizes and she says sorry,

983
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know Carrie, and then she comforts her. And

984
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: then there's that scene where she talked where Ms. Collins

985
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: talks to the principle and she's like, I really identified

986
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: with the girls because I just wanted to shake her

987
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: and be like, don't you know what a period is?

988
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: So she's like, but then later on she punishes all

989
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: the women who were bullying her and wants to ban

990
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: them all from prom, and you know, she gives them

991
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 1: all detention to everything like that. You know, she's like,

992
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: didn't you stop to think of carry had feelings? So

993
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: she's advocating for Carrie. Then she finds out that she's

994
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: been asked to prom. She's like, oh, you know, you

995
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: need to change her attitude about yourself. Just put on

996
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: some mess scare and some lipstick. The part in the

997
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: Coach that I recognized again, it's like there's a few

998
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 1: the few characters who are the closest things we have

999
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: two allies to carry are people who have at least

1000
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: good intentions, but that doesn't mean they really do her

1001
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 1: any good. And certainly the only one who shows her

1002
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: real kindness absolutely to her face. Yeah, and it's but

1003
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: the thing with the teacher is like, and this is

1004
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: something like I remember from being younger of a teacher

1005
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 1: who is like, yeah, you're weird, and like a teacher

1006
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: who genuinely wants your life to be better, but the

1007
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,240
Speaker 1: only way they know of to make your life better

1008
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: is to be like, so just be normal, Like why

1009
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: can't like do normal stuff and then people will like you,

1010
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 1: which is I don't think a good message to send

1011
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: a young girl at all, but I understand why she's

1012
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: saying it, and I and it seems clear that she's

1013
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: trying to do a good thing. She wants Carrie's life

1014
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: to be easier, but doesn't really care if that comes

1015
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 1: at the sacrifice of like Carrie being herself. Also, I

1016
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: guess no one. I also found it really interesting that

1017
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: no one ever brings up I mean, even in that

1018
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 1: conversation where they're like, it's so weird that she doesn't

1019
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: know about periods that they just blame Carrie that. And

1020
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: I know there's a phone call to the house that

1021
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 1: we don't hear informing the mother that Carrie has gotten

1022
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,919
Speaker 1: her period, but like why nobody thinks to investigate or

1023
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: or well, it does kind of get explained away by

1024
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: the principle when he's just like, oh, well, I guess

1025
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be surprised knowing that mother or of hers,

1026
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: But yeah, nothing further than that gets lord to me.

1027
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: Was also something that was really sad in this one

1028
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: and that I definitely identified with in the first viewing,

1029
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: and even now that so often kids who are abused

1030
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 1: end up being blamed themselves for their behavior, and nobody

1031
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: questions why it's there, you know, and nothing is really

1032
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: done right, Like you have a sixteen year l seventeen

1033
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: year old who's getting her period and it's horrified and

1034
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: doesn't know like something's up. You know. Well, I think

1035
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: that the and the way that that's like kind of

1036
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: cast off is like by introducing another kind of malleable,

1037
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: incompetent male character, the principle who can't even remember carry's name,

1038
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: much less actually do anything to be helpful. Um, every

1039
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: time something like that happened, and she showed in this

1040
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,959
Speaker 1: case she flips his ashtray and breaks it. I really

1041
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: wish I could do that in those instances where like

1042
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: men don't listen or say my name wrong or anything

1043
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: like that. Like I wish I could just flip an

1044
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 1: ashtray or close a window or like throw a bucket

1045
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: on their face or something, and then like, I don't

1046
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: need to do anything else. I'm not going to kill

1047
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: you and jostle your step of that aspect of it. Again,

1048
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,800
Speaker 1: I thought, did you guys feel her power at all? Eventually?

1049
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: Even if she's killing everybody, Like, did you feel like yeah,

1050
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: girl or no, well yeah, but I have some complicated

1051
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: feelings about this. I wanted to read a quote from

1052
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: what Stephen King said about his book Carrie. He says,

1053
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: Carrie is largely about how women find their own channels

1054
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: of power, but also what men fear about women and

1055
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,520
Speaker 1: women's sexuality. Writing the book in nineteen seventy three and

1056
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 1: only three years out of college, I was fully aware

1057
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 1: of what women's liberation implied for me and others of

1058
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: my sex. Carry is woman feeling her powers for the

1059
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: first time, and like Sampson, pulling down the temple on

1060
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: everyone in sight at the end of the book. So

1061
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: he sees this character as a very empowered woman who's

1062
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: coming into her own and die. That's the thing. So

1063
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: there are a lot of female empowerment stories. Well they're

1064
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: not a lot of those stories, but of the female

1065
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: empowerment stories that are available to us, a lot of

1066
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 1: them are about a woman being wronged then they enact revenge,

1067
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 1: often violently. Um, we see this in this movie. We

1068
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: see it and kill Bill Selman, Louise mad Max Fury Road,

1069
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: Legend of Billy Jean, the Teeth episode that we have

1070
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: coming out, We talked about that, and I would say

1071
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: there's a huge shortage of women empowerment stories where we

1072
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: just get to see women being awesome without either having

1073
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: to be the victims of of a bad thing that

1074
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: happened to them and or like just not having to

1075
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: seek revenge on someone. They're just cool and good at

1076
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 1: something and they're empowered that way. And then with Carrie

1077
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 1: at the end, she's essentially punished for being empowered and

1078
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 1: coming into her own because then she dies. So it's

1079
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 1: you can see this as a female empowerment story, but

1080
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 1: how empowered really is she at the end when her

1081
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 1: house collapses on her? Right? I mean, I think I

1082
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 1: definitely ladge onto the catharsis of let it fucking burn sometimes,

1083
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: where obviously what Kerry does is not a real world solution,

1084
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: but I think it is representative of you know, I mean,

1085
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: it certainly sounds like Stephen King is basically copying to,

1086
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 1: like kind of openly coping to Like, Yeah, woman who's

1087
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: fully in control of her powers and abilities is scary

1088
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 1: to people, especially at this point in history. I don't know.

1089
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean, again, it's like there is a part of

1090
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:52,880
Speaker 1: any abused woman or person I'd imagine that has this

1091
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 1: fantasy of like let it burn, and it's almost like

1092
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: cleansing by fire, of like I've been wronged, I'm angry

1093
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: and fuck you guys, and and you know, so I

1094
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: see I think it's yeah, And to your point earlier,

1095
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: I think I hear you because sometimes I'm like, you know,

1096
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: and I have this issue in my own movie too

1097
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 1: that some women have criticized of like because she's a

1098
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,360
Speaker 1: survivor as well in the film, and there's an element

1099
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: of you know, she burns down an entire jam with

1100
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: her telekinetic powers, right, I mean, you know, but but

1101
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: um so I get it. But I think sadly where

1102
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: we are right now so much of our narrative because

1103
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 1: you know that empowerment means you're overcoming some horrible thing

1104
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 1: that happened to you. I know that that's not true

1105
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 1: for every woman. And I'm also thinking, as a filmmaker,

1106
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 1: I don't know how you make that dramatic. I think

1107
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: the then the other stories become movies where like women

1108
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 1: are interesting, flawed, powerful, week all of the above, just

1109
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: like men are often treated that have nothing to do

1110
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: with whether they're righting or wrong or not right. So

1111
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: like I love terms of endearment or those kinds of

1112
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: films where it's like, well, nothing horrendous happened to anybody

1113
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 1: in there. They're just interesting and funked up characters and

1114
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 1: and equally so men and women, which I think is

1115
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: a really positive thing. But I don't know what I

1116
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: was thinking, Like, what's the empowerment, Like is it Beyonce

1117
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl or a Coachella like, And you know,

1118
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happened in her without corporate sponsorships.

1119
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: I suppose it doesn't even have to be especially empowering.

1120
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: But the thing about us seeing women's stories is because

1121
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: there are not nearly enough of them. Just seeing a

1122
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 1: woman doing cool things instead of having a specific goal

1123
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: and setting out to accomplish it and then succeeding in

1124
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: that would just be empowering because we see so little

1125
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: of that in media currently. I think that there's room

1126
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,479
Speaker 1: for both, though, oh sure, sure, I think that there

1127
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: there's an except I don't even know if an excess,

1128
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: but there's a shortage of women being able to like

1129
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 1: live their lives and have goals and accomplish them in

1130
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 1: stories in a fun way that doesn't involve her having

1131
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 1: to die at the end. I don't know, but yeah,

1132
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: well that's something I wanted to talk about, was like,

1133
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,440
Speaker 1: where where does the movie fall on Carrie, because we're

1134
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: and again I'm sure I can I can see it already.

1135
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: I can see our Twitter feed with people being like

1136
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: in the book, We're being straight with you, we have

1137
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: not read the book. This is not podcast about books.

1138
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about right now Bookheads is how

1139
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: it appears in the movie and what the adaptation is

1140
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: in the movie. For what I could tell, the movie,

1141
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: it has a very inconsistent stance on Carrie, where there

1142
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,919
Speaker 1: are some moments where it's so clear it's like, yes,

1143
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: she is suffering, she's being abused, and you know, it's

1144
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: like you want to help her and you want people

1145
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: there to be doing more to help her. But then

1146
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: in the end sequence, you know, she kills everyone, and

1147
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: then we're like, this isn't good, including her own mother,

1148
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: who who is the source of as far as we know,

1149
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 1: or you know where her pain is coming from, which

1150
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: you know it's horrendous as that is, I kind of

1151
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: justify in the in the idea of the movie, you're like, Okay,

1152
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 1: this horrendous thing happened though she's killed everybody. Now she's

1153
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: gonna you know, she washes herself and then you know,

1154
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 1: her mother tries to kill her, and then she kills her.

1155
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: But then even in that there seems to be like

1156
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: an what's it called the macino or where that? Like?

1157
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: Where is this house going to? And where what does

1158
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: that have to do with killing tenetic powers? And what

1159
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,240
Speaker 1: does that mean about how like the story feels about her?

1160
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: And then she also once again seems to be feel

1161
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: bad that she killed her mother, but it's punished for

1162
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: it anyway, which again I also think brings up a

1163
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: question of justification. It's like, should you, you know, be

1164
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: allowed to defend yourself against your abuse or like this

1165
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:50,680
Speaker 1: woman was about to kill her right, so yeah, I

1166
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 1: mean I think you've had that gone to court Carrie has. Yeah,

1167
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 1: well the thing that makes it but it makes it

1168
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,640
Speaker 1: so sad that you know, again, as someone who who's

1169
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: been through a lot of that, I felt, you know,

1170
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: I recognized that so many abused kids often want to

1171
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: defend themselves but then fall prey to the same behavior.

1172
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: So like when she hugs the mother and hides in

1173
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: the closet with her I found that extremely sad and

1174
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: in a weird way realistic, you know, even if we're

1175
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: suspending belief about everything else that's happening in the in

1176
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: the movie, and so it may mean incredibly sad to

1177
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,840
Speaker 1: then be like these are one and the same, like

1178
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: let's just take them down. And then the sign that

1179
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: says she lives in hell, I'm like, why, you know, yeah,

1180
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: And maybe it's supposed to be open ended in ambiguous

1181
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: and we're all supposed to decide how we feel about

1182
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: this character. But it's like, we see her kill all

1183
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: her students, You're like, but then we understand why to

1184
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: an extent, and then she doesn't kill anyone without some

1185
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: cause her mother is literally trying to kill her. So yeah,

1186
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: she gets killed, but but Carrie feels immediate remorse for this.

1187
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: She clearly had love for her mother because you know,

1188
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: in the scene before, she's like begging her mother to

1189
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: just hold her and be there for her, and her

1190
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: mom can't do that for her. So it's it is

1191
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: also never never approached why the mother is the way

1192
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: that she is, you know. Yeah, And and then the

1193
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 1: house goes to these things don't come out of nowhere,

1194
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, And then the movie ends on what I

1195
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: thought was like a note of empathy for Carrie, of

1196
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: like she never did anything wrong, and you know, look

1197
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: what happened to her, and now everyone is dead and

1198
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 1: Sue comes up with the flowers and it's like, okay,

1199
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 1: so this is where the virginal she's dressed in white flowers.

1200
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: And then it's like, yeah, the angel comes to bring

1201
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: the flowers to Carrie, who's whatever, and and you were like, okay,

1202
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: so this that made sense to me as an ending.

1203
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 1: But then it's like no, she's at hell and the

1204
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: hand reaches out and you're just like where what it was? Confused?

1205
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: The ending almost felt to me like it might have

1206
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 1: been I don't remember how he made this movie, but

1207
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 1: it could have been like studio notes, like yeah, you know,

1208
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: one last jump scared I did. I did jump at

1209
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 1: the thought it was ending. I want to talk about

1210
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 1: a few scenes that are I would say less open

1211
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:15,600
Speaker 1: to interpretation because they're pretty clearly bad. Uh way. And

1212
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: that is the scene where Tommy Ross asks Carrie to

1213
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: prom It happens twice the first time there in the library.

1214
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, do I want to go to prom?

1215
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:31,120
Speaker 1: And she runs away. She books it out of there,

1216
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 1: no pun intended because they're in a library, So we

1217
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: interpret that to be a hard now. Yeah, that's I

1218
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: would say, that's a hard now. And then the aftermath

1219
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: of that is, you know, Carrie is processing this information.

1220
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,160
Speaker 1: She seems upset because she thinks, as she explains to

1221
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: Ms Collins, that he and his pals are playing a

1222
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: trick on her, and Ms Collins like, no, you know,

1223
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:56,840
Speaker 1: I think it's just that you're not confident enough, so

1224
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 1: put on some makeup and you'll be fine. So then

1225
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: second time is when Tommy goes to Carrie's house uninvited,

1226
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: shows up at her front door. He mentions prom again.

1227
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: She's like, I already told you. He's know nothing I

1228
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 1: can say to change your mind. Girls do it all

1229
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: the time because you know, girls be fickle. Um, she says,

1230
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: why are you doing this? So she's not as naive

1231
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: as I think most audiences interpretation of Carrie usually is,

1232
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, she's rightfully paradided. Everyone's with her

1233
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 1: because everyone coach says that earlier. She's like, we're not

1234
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 1: as stupid as you think we are. And now there's

1235
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: a renovation behind you, right, So she says why are

1236
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: you doing this? And he says because I want to.

1237
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: She says I can't. He says, yes you can. She

1238
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: says you better go, not till you say yes. He says,

1239
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: She says no, I can't. Yes you can. She says again,

1240
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 1: I said I can't. He says again, yes you can't.

1241
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: Will you please? And as she says will you please go,

1242
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: she's telling him to leave, he says not till you

1243
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 1: say yes. He repeats that line. She's says why is

1244
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,040
Speaker 1: this so important to you? And he's like, oh, because

1245
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: you liked my poem? And then finally he has worn

1246
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: her down. This is like the scene in the Notebook

1247
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 1: where he's like, I read the dune to kill myself

1248
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: unless you go down, yeah, and then like oh, jomp

1249
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: if you don't got a prom with me, like ye,

1250
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,879
Speaker 1: So um, it's not quite that, but it's him asking

1251
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,360
Speaker 1: her over and over saying I'm not going to leave

1252
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: until you say yes, and finally she says yes, but

1253
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:36,759
Speaker 1: only it's after he's worn her down five So yeah.

1254
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 1: The the implications of this are upsetting and then uh

1255
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 1: and also because as the audience, we know she I

1256
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 1: actually think she probably does want to say yes. And

1257
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: would like to go, but has a very clear reason

1258
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: why she can't because her fucking psychotic mother will try

1259
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 1: to stab her. So had Tommy just stopped forcing the

1260
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: issue and not like, you know, done this whole like

1261
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,719
Speaker 1: very typical movie. I'm not going to leave you alone

1262
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 1: until you do what I want. You know, we could

1263
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 1: have a lot of lives. Could have been saying, can

1264
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 1: you blame it on on on her loving poetry or

1265
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: on him writing poetry? I think, yeah, Like maybe the

1266
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: moral of the story is that boy shouldn't write. Don't

1267
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: you didn't even stop promoting male? Oh I still I

1268
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,720
Speaker 1: played yourrized, So he does because I thought the whole

1269
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: thing was that it was his and she says it's

1270
01:09:27,360 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 1: so beautiful, and then the fucking male teacher also makes

1271
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 1: fun of her. I know that was that was over.

1272
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,559
Speaker 1: I was like, would someone truly that sound beautiful? I think?

1273
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,640
Speaker 1: And he keeps looking at the coach to remember and

1274
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: the yeah, yeah, I read that. I was like a

1275
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 1: lot of really strange characters in this. Well. Another troubling

1276
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,040
Speaker 1: moment happens a little bit later, when Tommy and Carrie

1277
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 1: are at prom and he's like, come on, dance and

1278
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: She's like, I can't I know what, I don't know how.

1279
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: He's like, don't do it. So she reluctantly agrees, and

1280
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,719
Speaker 1: I start dancing, and then he tries to a surprise kiss,

1281
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 1: or he goes in for a surprise kiss. She pulls

1282
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 1: away and then immediately starts apologizing, and he's like, no,

1283
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: it's okay, and she's like, no, I don't know how

1284
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: to do anything. I can't do anything. I don't know

1285
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 1: how to dance, and I don't know how to kiss

1286
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: is what she is implying, and then he kisses her. Basically,

1287
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: what is dangerous about this is that it sends the

1288
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: message that if at first a woman says no or

1289
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: rebuffs a man's advance. I mean, we talked about this

1290
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:29,719
Speaker 1: all the time. It's yeah, it's like, it's not because

1291
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to. It's because she's shy, or she's

1292
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: unsure of herself, or she's not confident enough, and you

1293
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: just got to go for build her confidence. And people

1294
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: now ask if it's okay to kiss all the time?

1295
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:45,840
Speaker 1: Is this the norm? I do it. I the rare

1296
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:49,080
Speaker 1: times that I've kissed anyone, I'll be like, hey, should

1297
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: we make out? And then I've found it's weird in

1298
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. That is sort of now

1299
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:59,880
Speaker 1: at this point as as a sometimes kisser people, Yeah,

1300
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,879
Speaker 1: usually people be like is this cool, and then wow,

1301
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: that's really different. Yeah. I think that that is like

1302
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: a change. I mean even in like my own romantic experience,

1303
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 1: that that is a shift that's taken place in the

1304
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: past couple of years. I'm personally for it. I think

1305
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: it's fun. There's for fun banter before kissing. You're just

1306
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: like you're just like, nope, just get it. And even

1307
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: if there's not a fun treating, well no, I mean

1308
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:24,240
Speaker 1: that was the thing that I always remember when I

1309
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: was very young, so we were kids, but this kid

1310
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: that I kind of liked was like, can I kiss you?

1311
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: And I thought, oh, I was he asking, Like I

1312
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: felt like I was giving like every signal in the

1313
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: book to be kiss But again, then I've had it

1314
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:38,679
Speaker 1: both ways, you know, so it's like if it's something

1315
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 1: you want, which I feel like, oh, I'm putting out

1316
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,760
Speaker 1: those vibes and and I feel like I'm reading them

1317
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: the same way, then it's great when it happens and

1318
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 1: like nothing gets said because it feels like you're finally

1319
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: both agreeing to it. But then I've also had a

1320
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 1: lot of dudes kissed me when I want them, not

1321
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 1: want to be kissing. So I think that that is,

1322
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, a cultural moment thing where everyone is just

1323
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 1: reevaluating that like anything, because it's it's not to say

1324
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 1: that every kiss that's taken place without you know, a

1325
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 1: brief conversation before it takes place is not consensual. But

1326
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think it's just like

1327
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: right now, we're in a place culturally where it's just

1328
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 1: become clear that everyone, depending on who they are, with

1329
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: their background is what privilege or lack of privilege they've

1330
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,719
Speaker 1: come to be with, has a different idea of what

1331
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: being on the same page is. And so that's why

1332
01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: these conversations are happening. And yeah, I mean, what's his face?

1333
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 1: Who plays Superman? Came out recently with all those remarks

1334
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 1: where it's clear that he does not understand what consent is. Still,

1335
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: so Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill is like, I can't even

1336
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:48,720
Speaker 1: ask a woman out anymore or else I'm going to

1337
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 1: go to jail. And it's like, dude, you need to

1338
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: learn because there right where it's just like I think

1339
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: it's it's to those things where I feel like it's

1340
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: almost going to take a generation or two to sort

1341
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:08,599
Speaker 1: of reset cleansing by fire if you're just waiting for

1342
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:13,720
Speaker 1: us all to die. Uh of like everyone's grown up

1343
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: with such a warped idea of what consent is that

1344
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: right now, it just seems like the smartest thing to

1345
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 1: do to verbally make sure, Okay, this is how I'm

1346
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: interpreted the issue with that, there's also an assumption that

1347
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 1: a they're going to listen, So if you say no,

1348
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it stops there? Right, and we

1349
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: see that, right, he's a lot right and be that

1350
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 1: um that sometimes. And I do think this is still

1351
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 1: like an issue for a lot of women, And I

1352
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: hope that that's one of the things that I would

1353
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: like to change and certainly talk about in my movie

1354
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 1: of of how do we get in the confidence to

1355
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: say no when we want to say no? Because for

1356
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: plenty of reasons that I can imagine, especially young girl

1357
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: has been in a situation where they feel like, oh,

1358
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 1: I don't really want a kiss, but maybe I should

1359
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,080
Speaker 1: say yes. But if I say no, am I? But

1360
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: then it gives right and then but then guys are like,

1361
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:04,600
Speaker 1: as long as I'm getting that verbal you know what

1362
01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's more complicated than just like a

1363
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:12,120
Speaker 1: legal thing, where like well she said, yes, I totally agree.

1364
01:14:12,160 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 1: I just think that it's and I'm not even saying

1365
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 1: that that approach is the full proof way of consent,

1366
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,600
Speaker 1: but it seems like it used to step in the

1367
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: right direction that hasn't existed as sort of like a

1368
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: rule of sorts in culture up to this point. It's

1369
01:14:31,320 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: definitely and yeah, unfortunately it won't prevent everything. I well,

1370
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 1: I also feel like some of these things really are

1371
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: masking the fact that, like, you know, I think the

1372
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:41,760
Speaker 1: guys who are going to take advantage of women and

1373
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 1: don't want to read the signs or don't give a

1374
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 1: fuck have been there for a while and we'll probably

1375
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: continue to be there. Like I've also, you know, I'm

1376
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: kind of okay, Like I remember the guys who like,

1377
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 1: clearly we're reading the wrong signs Slash probably liked me

1378
01:14:55,479 --> 01:14:57,799
Speaker 1: more than I like them kiss me. I was like, whoa,

1379
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 1: what's happening? Not into it? And they were like sorry

1380
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 1: by to me. That sort of feels like okay, Like

1381
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's awkward, but it's not I

1382
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 1: don't think criminal. It's like, you know, I think I think, yeah,

1383
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 1: that's the yeah. I mean, I wouldn't feel violated if

1384
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 1: someone just like, you know, went in for a kiss,

1385
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 1: even if our lips met, you know, and I just

1386
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,639
Speaker 1: wasn't feeling it and you know, back away saying no thanks,

1387
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: that's not for me. Uh. And then as long as

1388
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 1: he says oops, sorry and then doesn't keep trying to persist, that's,

1389
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, a mistake. That's what I mean. Like to me,

1390
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: that's very different, like, Okay, clearly I was reading it

1391
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:45,400
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and then I'm out of here. I'm

1392
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: not going to be an asshole. I'm like keep you know.

1393
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 1: But honestly, my preference if some guy is like misreading

1394
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: my signals would be for him to have it kind

1395
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: of in his head to be like, so, like do

1396
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 1: you want to make out and maybe like as opposed

1397
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,520
Speaker 1: to him as its opposed to having that awkward interaction,

1398
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: and it's a simple like it's you know, that's it's

1399
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 1: like you're saying, it's not the end of the world.

1400
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: But I think it is a step in the right

1401
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:16,480
Speaker 1: direction to eliminate that and and the same with the cleansing.

1402
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: Uh with as as generations go on, just teaching kids

1403
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: basic consent seems important. And and at the point, I'll

1404
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: just be like, follow your heart, because some people's hearts

1405
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,280
Speaker 1: are evil. And and the point I'm trying to make,

1406
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 1: which we've made on the podcast many times before, is

1407
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 1: that many many movies like equip boys with these tools

1408
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: to you know, there were scenes play out where it's

1409
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 1: a boy being rejected over and over again, but then

1410
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:49,080
Speaker 1: wearing the woman down and that working and the girl

1411
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: then falling in love with this boy. So the general

1412
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 1: wrong and that if a guy, if you keep saying

1413
01:16:57,880 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: no to a guy, as long as he keeps coming

1414
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,759
Speaker 1: back and hammering you with the same question, that that's

1415
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: that's romantic. That's that's what the movie will have you believe,

1416
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 1: which brings me back to my everyone's grandparents love story

1417
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: is disturbing, right and wherever when my grandparents would describe

1418
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 1: how they met, now, I'm just like, what, he just

1419
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: followed you around in his car and yelled at you,

1420
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: and then you were his wife and you loved him. Uh,

1421
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's there's definitely a weird sort of cultural

1422
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,080
Speaker 1: dissonance with that. I have one last quick thing. I

1423
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about that last scene between Carrie and

1424
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 1: her mom before the scary knife and then the mini

1425
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 1: scary knives and then they died, because there is that

1426
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: conversation that takes place between the two of them. Carrie

1427
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 1: has just taken her bath, she's cleansed herself of the

1428
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: blood of her peers. Great uh. She finds her mom.

1429
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 1: Her mom says, I should have killed myself when he

1430
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: put it in me. And then they have this conversation

1431
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:01,719
Speaker 1: where it's weird because you you was sort of start

1432
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,560
Speaker 1: to feel empathy for Carrie's mom and then she immediately

1433
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: sells it up like stabbing carry. But for like a

1434
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 1: minute there, you're like, oh my gosh, you know, she

1435
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: is also someone who is in incredible pain, where like

1436
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: you were saying about like we don't know what the

1437
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 1: relationship between the mother and the father was, like it

1438
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: seems like it could have been. You know, when she

1439
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: says I smell alcohol and his breath like that, we

1440
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: get a hint in there, but again it's done in

1441
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 1: this like she's insane as opposed to you know, like

1442
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: she's such an unreliable narrator that we can't really well.

1443
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: And I think that the like they take away from

1444
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 1: me with that character was like she was describing like

1445
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: sexual desire in a way that sounded so like she

1446
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,839
Speaker 1: thought she had to reject sexual desire. So when it happened,

1447
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 1: it was painful to her and it was like full

1448
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: of shame, to the point where a few minutes later

1449
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 1: when she's like, you know, Jesus Christ, Superstars stabbed to death,

1450
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 1: the way she dies as kind of like yeah, like

1451
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: and it's almost like, I don't know, it's it seemed

1452
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 1: like it was referencing the conversation they just had where

1453
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 1: she seems to be at peace. Yeah, like her the

1454
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,280
Speaker 1: idea of sexual pleasure caused her pain, and then when

1455
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 1: she has pain, there's some expression of pleasure. I don't know,

1456
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 1: And so what does that mean to Stephen King? Like

1457
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about the quote you just read, and

1458
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: especially because he says women's lip, which again I think

1459
01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,639
Speaker 1: the period having babies thing is relevant to that because

1460
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 1: the pill had such a huge consequence that way, you know,

1461
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: And I know that men are often terrified, even if

1462
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: it's in this Like I remember when I was pregnant

1463
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: and I wasn't big enough to show that something like

1464
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: I would tell men I was working with or something

1465
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 1: like oh, by the way, I'm pregnant, and almost always

1466
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: there was this like moment of fear in their face

1467
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:53,240
Speaker 1: like it wasn't me, you know, like not my baby.

1468
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 1: And I thought, it's so interesting. It's like it's like

1469
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: it's like centuries of of I don't know if something

1470
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: that I I I don't know if this is true,

1471
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 1: but it felt to me like even from you know,

1472
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:05,240
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know a lot of men want

1473
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,599
Speaker 1: to become parents and happily so and all that, but

1474
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: that there's still this weird, like an animal thing of

1475
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 1: like oh shit, like I'm out of here, you know. Anyway,

1476
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,799
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was because again I think period

1477
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 1: stands for fertility here, right, And and it's so interesting

1478
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: that of course her mother is unable to love her

1479
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:26,559
Speaker 1: in any way, like she seems happier when she locks

1480
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,439
Speaker 1: Carrie and a cosset and then she's like sewing happily

1481
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 1: by herself, which is also you know, and I mean

1482
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:34,719
Speaker 1: from what I know, and clearly I'm not a therapist,

1483
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 1: but you know, women who are unable to love their

1484
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: children in that way, it's like a pathological issue. So

1485
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: again it's never said if Carrie's mother is like this,

1486
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: because is she just pathologically insane or did something happened

1487
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: to her got her this way? And I for sure

1488
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:53,439
Speaker 1: would have liked to know something, because again I think

1489
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: it clear stuff out. My one of my issues with

1490
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:57,400
Speaker 1: this kind of abuse in movies is that like it,

1491
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: by it never being explained it it just continues to

1492
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 1: be a taboo that like, well, I don't I should

1493
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like, actually, we don't know how

1494
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 1: this stuff happens. And and just like that, the concept

1495
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:12,599
Speaker 1: that depicting abuse is enough, you know, but it's like

1496
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: not examining it just means you're kind of perpetrating like

1497
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: abuse because you're just showing it happening, and it's like okay,

1498
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: acknowledging that this happens in the world and not common

1499
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,799
Speaker 1: to go on. It's almost worse than not doing anything

1500
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: at all. It's just oh, well, I can I can

1501
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:35,679
Speaker 1: keep going, but it's weird. Lawrence Brian and Stephen the Boys.

1502
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: The Boys had something to say about the fifteen year

1503
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,400
Speaker 1: old girls and that they missed a little Shall we

1504
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 1: determine whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel test.

1505
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,639
Speaker 1: It sure does. It does quite a bit. Yeah, all

1506
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:50,680
Speaker 1: the damn time, all the damn time. I just want

1507
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: to read a few of my favorite passes. U. MS

1508
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:58,000
Speaker 1: Collins says to Chris, spit out that gum. Chris says,

1509
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:00,640
Speaker 1: where will I put it? MS Collins, she says, you

1510
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,520
Speaker 1: can choke on it for all I care. Another great line. Yeah,

1511
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ones where like MS Collins is like,

1512
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,759
Speaker 1: I'm going to knock you down, vaguely threatening their students. Yeah,

1513
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 1: but it's vaguely. I mean, she's all over. But it

1514
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 1: passes between Carrie's mom and Sue's mom. Um, it passes

1515
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 1: between Carrie and her mom, it passes between ms Collins

1516
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: and carry There's a lot of different combinations. And I

1517
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: would say, and they do talk a lot about men

1518
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,679
Speaker 1: though they do. Yeah, but there are an awful way

1519
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:37,720
Speaker 1: more conversations than I was expecting to pass. I think

1520
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 1: that one of the things that stuck out to me too,

1521
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: as I forget what alternative test it is, But a

1522
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: lot of the time that they're talking very frequently, it

1523
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,920
Speaker 1: is about it's about religion, it's about shame, it's about

1524
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,920
Speaker 1: just stuff that's happening in the scene, but it is

1525
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:57,679
Speaker 1: also very often about something domestic or something beauty related.

1526
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:00,200
Speaker 1: A lot of the time it passes it's because they're

1527
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: talking about prompt um. But for I mean, for a

1528
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: movie of this time, it is a female centric story.

1529
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: Most of the men in this story are kind of

1530
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:14,679
Speaker 1: complicit goof ases who are never really central. And it's

1531
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:16,880
Speaker 1: periods at the forefront of it, which I'm sure in

1532
01:23:17,680 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: was standing right, sure, and the fact that this movie

1533
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:22,599
Speaker 1: was like a hit on top of that is right.

1534
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: But I think the period is only featured so prominently

1535
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:31,200
Speaker 1: because that's such a scary and disgusting thing to men

1536
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: that because this is a horror movie, they're like, what

1537
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,439
Speaker 1: can we put in here to make this more horrific? Oh,

1538
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,760
Speaker 1: how about menstruation? So well, let's write the movie on

1539
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, where we have a scale of zero

1540
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,799
Speaker 1: to five nipples. We rate it based on its portrayal

1541
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 1: and representation of women. I'm going to give it. I

1542
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: think a two and a half or three were saint.

1543
01:23:58,320 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: It's like we're menstrual letting our um because women entirely

1544
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:09,360
Speaker 1: drive this narrative. If there are men it's they're only

1545
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 1: doing things because women asked or told them to do things.

1546
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 1: So women have all the agency in this story, they're

1547
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:20,080
Speaker 1: making all the active decisions. It can be interpreted as

1548
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: a story of female empowerment. That's certainly how Stephen King

1549
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: intended to write it based on that quote I read.

1550
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 1: But it's also a very male understanding of what femininity is,

1551
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: of what female relationships are, of how you know, women

1552
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 1: operate in the world. So had this same or similar

1553
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 1: story been written or directed by a woman, I think

1554
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 1: we would have seen something very different. Um, I'm interested

1555
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,799
Speaker 1: what the situation is with the various you know, remakes

1556
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:56,200
Speaker 1: and sequels and stuff like that are not familiar enough

1557
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:00,280
Speaker 1: to comment on it. But yeah, it's it's a story her.

1558
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:06,679
Speaker 1: A woman's period also means she's telekinetic and and she

1559
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 1: gets her inact revenge on hers. But also, wouldn't that

1560
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:16,920
Speaker 1: be cool if your period just didn't mean like, oh,

1561
01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:19,280
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go with I think two and a

1562
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:24,639
Speaker 1: half nipples and giving nipples to my nipples too. I'll

1563
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:30,000
Speaker 1: give we see both spacetics nipples, So I'll give you

1564
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 1: to her, and I'll give my last half nipple to ms. Collins,

1565
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 1: the fizz ed teacher who her intentions and motivations are inconsistent,

1566
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:45,120
Speaker 1: but it seemed to overall be on the positive end

1567
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. I'll go too and a half as well.

1568
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: I think that this is just like again there. I

1569
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 1: would think that this story would be portrayed a little

1570
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,759
Speaker 1: clearer and a little differently if women had been involved

1571
01:25:59,840 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 1: in production at literally any point. Um And I wish

1572
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 1: that we had that product to be like, Okay, here's

1573
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 1: a woman's story as interpreted by all straight white men,

1574
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 1: and here's a woman's story interpreted by a group of women.

1575
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: Um And what what things are different that that? Should

1576
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: they honestly should give a piece of source material to

1577
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,400
Speaker 1: a group of men and in a group of female

1578
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:26,479
Speaker 1: few makers and see what happened. Hair. In contrast, a

1579
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that bothers me about this movie,

1580
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,439
Speaker 1: I don't like that Carrie, for having control of her

1581
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: powers or some sort of control, is sent to Hell,

1582
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: and that goes relatively unchallenged to like. The last frame

1583
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: of the movie is like, she's sure in hell, all right? Uh,

1584
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: But a lot of the things about period in a

1585
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:49,360
Speaker 1: week later, she's she's in Hell. I was like, man,

1586
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:51,880
Speaker 1: is her period even over at this point? Like she's

1587
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,040
Speaker 1: does she have a fucking tampone? Because I don't think

1588
01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: can we have the scene where she goes shopping for

1589
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 1: them she has the ones that got soaked in the shower.

1590
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: I guess already. I believe it's all the way home.

1591
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: I can't tell if this movie all takes place in

1592
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:13,760
Speaker 1: the space of carrious period. But also I've burned it down.

1593
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:15,960
Speaker 1: I also kind of like that little kid she throws

1594
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:19,559
Speaker 1: off his bike. Yeah, kid's last name is di Palma.

1595
01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:23,679
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's Brian and his kids. It's like, toss

1596
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:26,280
Speaker 1: you off a bike today, son. The more I think

1597
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 1: about Stephen King's books, the more I think this is

1598
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,439
Speaker 1: his issue, because the one with James con where his

1599
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 1: fucking ankles are broken, which is a great movie, but

1600
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 1: I mean it's a woman imprisoning him in a fucking bed,

1601
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:42,760
Speaker 1: Like this guy is terrified of women. Yeah, A lot

1602
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: of things that bothered me about this movie specifically were subtextual,

1603
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:50,200
Speaker 1: like every time we see a group of women, specifically

1604
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 1: the opening scene is very bizarre. We I think, between

1605
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 1: the three of us have reached a conclusion that this

1606
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,880
Speaker 1: is not something that happens in the real world. And

1607
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: and just the way women are filmed in this movie.

1608
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 1: I don't know who's doing this cinematography. I have a

1609
01:28:05,560 --> 01:28:09,799
Speaker 1: guess at their gender, uh is like it's so many

1610
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:14,680
Speaker 1: women's nude torsos or like there's a nip peeking through it.

1611
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 1: And it's very exploits towards the panding up and down

1612
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 1: a lot of times, like with the fact that Carries

1613
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 1: groping herself in the shower, and just all the scenes

1614
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: the nudity for the most part is gratuitous completely And

1615
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 1: again who showers like that in the lockers room? Like

1616
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:36,400
Speaker 1: she's like, especially after having been bullied out in the field,

1617
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,960
Speaker 1: She's like, time to soap out my breast, especially as

1618
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 1: someone as like conservative is Carrie, And it makes no sense,

1619
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 1: like so that's not how a modest person showers, and

1620
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 1: and and the same for the gym scene where it's

1621
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:53,679
Speaker 1: just you know, we're following a butt walk past breasts

1622
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,759
Speaker 1: and it's that for two minutes, and so it for

1623
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:01,240
Speaker 1: a story that features mainly women, the women are constantly

1624
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: objectified by the movie they're in, even if they're not

1625
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 1: really objectified been the men around them, because there's not

1626
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,920
Speaker 1: really enough men around them to be doing that. Uh So,

1627
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 1: as well crafted a movie as it is, the way

1628
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 1: women are framed in this movie really bothered me. And

1629
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,519
Speaker 1: the fact that it's, you know, all white women with

1630
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 1: the same body type basically, with the exception of one

1631
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: girl who is played I would argue as a joke.

1632
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 1: I mean that is really only there to pull funny faces,

1633
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: like we don't know anything about her nothing. Yeah, and

1634
01:29:31,240 --> 01:29:34,400
Speaker 1: that Jim scene made it extremely obvious to me. Where

1635
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 1: you're panning on that long line of girls doing the things,

1636
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, they all have the exact same thing. It's

1637
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of any sort of variety of

1638
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,759
Speaker 1: types of women we see, we see a lot of women,

1639
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:51,840
Speaker 1: but it's the same type of women we're seeing multiple times.

1640
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 1: So that sucks and I don't like it. But there

1641
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 1: there are a lot of good things that we have

1642
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 1: discussed within There's there's a lot of like on the

1643
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:07,120
Speaker 1: right track nous to this story. But unfortunately, I think

1644
01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 1: because there are no women involved in the making of

1645
01:30:10,479 --> 01:30:13,400
Speaker 1: this story, a lot of it kind of misses or

1646
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: it kind of gets uncanny value. So I'm going two

1647
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 1: point five. I'll give one to carry, give one to Sue,

1648
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:25,680
Speaker 1: and I'll give one to the car that blows up.

1649
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: Am I doing this as well? Okay, well, clearly I'm

1650
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:33,200
Speaker 1: not not as a dept as you guys had given

1651
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:37,639
Speaker 1: out nipples, but I'm probably gonna go with two. Okay,

1652
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: it's surprising considering, like, I think it works as a movie.

1653
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,880
Speaker 1: But I think my conclusion today is that to your point, like,

1654
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a movie that's concerned with understanding

1655
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: women at all. I think it's about the male fear

1656
01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:54,360
Speaker 1: and psychosis of women, and in particular their power as

1657
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:57,639
Speaker 1: understood by the coming on of the period. And in

1658
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 1: that way, I find it really disappointing. Meaning, you know,

1659
01:31:01,400 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 1: take it a little further. So I'm supposed to give

1660
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: nipples to the people anything you want. I mean, obviously

1661
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:10,960
Speaker 1: I feel for Carrie a lot, so I mean I

1662
01:31:11,080 --> 01:31:14,479
Speaker 1: wish that more background or or character could have. I mean,

1663
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 1: we essentially also don't know her beyond you know the

1664
01:31:17,600 --> 01:31:19,639
Speaker 1: fact that she gets her period and then these powers.

1665
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 1: That's true, Like what is Carrie interested in? I don't

1666
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,760
Speaker 1: know what. The motivations of almost every main character are

1667
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:28,960
Speaker 1: not very clearly defined, and they all but they're all

1668
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 1: doing things that should be motivated and yet they are not.

1669
01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 1: And I'll probably give my other one to mom actually

1670
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 1: because I feel for her as well, although you know

1671
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:41,040
Speaker 1: she's a horrendous mother to her. But I feel like

1672
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to believe that there's not that to justify it,

1673
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:45,880
Speaker 1: but that there's somewhere. But I don't know. I just

1674
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: feel like again completely misunderstood character who nobody wanted to

1675
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:55,000
Speaker 1: take the care to figure out. Yeah, most female movie

1676
01:31:55,120 --> 01:31:57,760
Speaker 1: character and also mom's mom's get a really rotten deal

1677
01:31:57,800 --> 01:31:59,880
Speaker 1: in a lot of movies, especially the ones written or

1678
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,519
Speaker 1: erected by men. I mean, who I think are working

1679
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:04,640
Speaker 1: out their issues with moms. So like the moms and

1680
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:07,400
Speaker 1: the characters are either angelical and kiss you and put

1681
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:12,800
Speaker 1: you to bed or stab you to death or yeah,

1682
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:17,080
Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you. I can keep doing

1683
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:19,559
Speaker 1: this for hours. I love it. I know. Yeah, there's

1684
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:23,519
Speaker 1: it's as always, there's truly never enough time. UM so

1685
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:27,639
Speaker 1: tell us about All About Nina. It came out last week,

1686
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:31,240
Speaker 1: and is there any where can we follow you? And

1687
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:35,200
Speaker 1: that project on social media? All About Nina film is

1688
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 1: the website and and that should it tells you where

1689
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 1: where it's playing and where you can buy tickets. It's

1690
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 1: playing in New York in l A and then other

1691
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:44,720
Speaker 1: markets are going to open as we go along. And

1692
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:47,960
Speaker 1: because it is a sort of smaller independent movie, you know,

1693
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 1: we could use the support where not a Marvel film

1694
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 1: that's opening and like five tho screens at once and

1695
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,280
Speaker 1: that everybody's heard about or anything like that. But it

1696
01:32:56,320 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 1: does seem to be hitting the spot with a lot

1697
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: of survivors. And actually not just that, but I think

1698
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:04,760
Speaker 1: women who are feeling rage these days, which seems to

1699
01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 1: be a lot of us, say, for example, carry too.

1700
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:13,760
Speaker 1: We yeah, yeah, Kavanaugh hearings all of that stuff. So okay, great,

1701
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: everyone go see the damn movie. It's really and it's fun.

1702
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 1: There's fingering jokes and there's period diarrhea jokes. Yeah, there's

1703
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 1: written by women. So it's an interesting mother character, yes,

1704
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:35,840
Speaker 1: a nuanced mother character. It's yeah, it's it's and good

1705
01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 1: guys too. Yeah, there's I think as well as some

1706
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: shitty guys. We have everything. Really, it's like whole spectrum

1707
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 1: on this convert the spectrum of humanity. No, it's it's

1708
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:47,680
Speaker 1: really great, and um, thank you for thank you for

1709
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: having me. You can follow the Bechtel Cast in all

1710
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:54,639
Speaker 1: the usual places were on Instagram and Twitter at bechtel Cast,

1711
01:33:54,720 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 1: where on Facebook you can go to our website. Bytel

1712
01:33:57,880 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: cast dot com, you can go to our t pup

1713
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: look Psychet all the cool merch at t public dot com,

1714
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:07,839
Speaker 1: slash v back dol cast, and if you're feeling crazy,

1715
01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:10,800
Speaker 1: we've actually referenced a bonus episode coming out on our

1716
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: patreon ak Matreon several times in this episode. We have

1717
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: a few October e episodes coming out, including Teeth, So

1718
01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 1: go over to patreon dot com slash backtel Cast to

1719
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,240
Speaker 1: sign up for that five bucks a month to extra episodes.

1720
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 1: You bet you. Also, we have a few live shows

1721
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 1: coming up. Details at the time of this recording are

1722
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:33,120
Speaker 1: yet to be confirmed, but we know that we will

1723
01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: be in New York and Philly at the beginning of November,

1724
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 1: and we have we'll be back in l A as well.

1725
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 1: We'll be back in l A for a live show

1726
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 1: here at the Ruby also in November, so we'll be

1727
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,120
Speaker 1: tweeting about it. We'll be posting about it on our

1728
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 1: website backtelcast dot com under the live appearances tab. Will

1729
01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 1: have more details as they come in, so check us

1730
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:59,600
Speaker 1: out live, baby, We love you, we'll talk to you soon. Goddamnit,

1731
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,000
Speaker 1: damn it. Let's go burn a Jim down, all right,

1732
01:35:02,120 --> 01:35:04,000
Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, Bye bye,