1 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Welcome guys to a another new episode of You Need 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat and I am a 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: therapist that lives and works in Nashville, Tennessee. If you 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: are new, Hi, nice to meet you. A little disclaimer, 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: of course, before we get going. This podcast is not therapy. 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: It's just a way to help get people thinking and 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: engaging in some self reflection that may turn into someone 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: going and getting therapy for themselves. So you're getting another 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: solo episode from just Me today, So we're gonna jump 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: right into it. I've been itching to do an episode 11 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: on codependency for a while because it's something that I 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: think so many people may be experiencing without knowing, and 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: I know for me, I actually did not know what 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: codependency was until I was working in a treatment center 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: as an intern in the middle of my second year 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: of graduate school. So where I think a lot more 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: people know what it is now, I also want everybody 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: out there to know that if you're like, what is codependency? 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: Am I the only one that doesn't know this? I 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: think it's pretty normal not to know what it is. 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: But we're gonna learn together. Just to start off, we're 22 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: going to talk about what actually it is, and then 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: we'll go into all the other stuff. I did a 24 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: couple of polls on Instagram last week, one being what 25 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: do you want to know? Which I got some great 26 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: questions and we're actually going to pretty much answer all 27 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: of them. And then also I asked people what you 28 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: actually thought it was, and I want to read some 29 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: of the answers. You guys killed it. Like my favorite one, 30 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: I will say, you know who you are who set 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: this in They said when I can't leave my health 32 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: because my dog can't come with me, which like, honestly, 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: you're not wrong, Like that's literally is what could have been? 34 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: To see, that's a form of it. Okay, So here 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: are some of the things that you guys said you 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: thought the codependency was the degree to which people's lives 37 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: overlap a healthy or unhealthy amount. Relying on someone else 38 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: to fill your bucket, a lack of boundaries, and being 39 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: comfortable with lowered standards, Trying to control others because their 40 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: happiness and well being are key to my peace, Being 41 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: obsessed with another person's actions and how those actions affect 42 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: my emotions, looking to others to determine how I feel, 43 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: and adjusting accordingly to people who can't function independently. Your 44 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: emotions and experiences determine my emotions and experiences. An unhealthy 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: dependence on another person, boarding an obsession, resentment for not 46 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: receiving help, and love the way you feel like you 47 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: give it. I'm not okay unless you're okay. Difficulty making 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: decisions for yourself without the input of another, lack of boundaries, 49 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: people pleasing behavior, hyper sense of control, micromanaging when your 50 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: mood is reliant or dependent on someone else's. If they're 51 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: not okay, I'm not okay. I'm only happy if they're happy. 52 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: And unhealthy reliance emotionally on a person, mixed with a 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: lack of sense of self. So like, so great, guys, 54 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: Like these answers were awesome, And I did at this, 55 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: like I asked you because I wanted to see what 56 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of stuff was out there, because codependency is kind 57 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: of slash really complex, and at times I think it 58 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: gets bent or watered down because of the power of 59 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: the Internet, and I think that there's just way more 60 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: information out there and ways to get information, like when 61 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: I got an Instagram when I was in grad school. 62 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: I think that people were still just like posting like 63 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: food picks with like the natural filter put over top 64 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: of it, Like if that's what it was. Nobody was 65 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: putting all this really awesome information out there that was 66 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: so easy to find, and now it's like you see 67 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: an Instagram poster or read an article that is linked 68 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: on somebody's Instagram, and you think you figure it out, 69 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: but like, did we figure it out? Now? The good 70 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: news is a lot of y'all obviously gave me amazing 71 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: correct answers, but it's not the whole story. And this 72 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: kind of reminded me of taking tests when you had 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: to like check all that apply and you're like, oh, 74 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: they all apply, and then you question yourself because you're like, 75 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: is that a trick question? Because like can they all apply? 76 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: Like one can apply? Like that would be too easy. 77 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: I don't know that. Maybe that's just me. But actually, 78 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: now that I'm thinking about it, the questions on tests 79 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: that really got me where to choose the best answer, 80 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: Like when they all were right answers, but you to 81 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: choose the best one. I don't know if that was 82 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: not just me. I know some of you are feeling 83 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: that in your heart. Like that gives me some flashbacks anyway, 84 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: that's not important. Um, So we're going to start the 85 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: basics and get a really good idea of what codependency 86 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: is and where it actually came from, Like where did 87 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: this word come from? And actually it started being developed 88 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: and talked about in treatment centers around partners or those 89 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: who are in relationships with addicts or alcoholics. People in 90 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: the field, we're starting to see that just like alcoholics 91 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: develop their maladaptive coping mechanisms to deal with life circumstances, 92 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: so do their partners. And at first they would call 93 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: these people different names, one of them was para alcoholics, 94 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: and then they actually developed the term codependent. Now, as 95 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: time went by, they saw that these traits or what 96 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: someone called character defects apply to more than just the 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: spouse or pair and of an alcoholic or somebody who 98 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: struggles with addiction. Codependency has a fuzzy definition, and it's 99 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: difficult definition because you can't fully define it in one sentence. Really, now, 100 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: we need to be able to define it because to 101 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: find a solution to a problem, we need to be 102 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: able to define the problem. And so I'll say this 103 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 1: multiple times, but there are two really good books that 104 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: I really really suggest you guys looking into One of 105 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: them is called Codependent No More by Melody Beauty. It's 106 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: really awesome. It's she is somebody who she doesn't consider 107 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: herself an expert, but she writes a book after going 108 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: through her own experiences of codependency and finding health out 109 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: of it. And then another one is called Facing Codependence 110 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: by p A. Melody. She is an expert. I think 111 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: both of them are experts. But anyway, so Melody Beauty 112 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: actually came up with this definition that I really like, 113 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: and again I cannot recommend her book enough. And she 114 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: defines as a codependent person as someone who lets another 115 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: person's behavior affect him or her and is obsessed with 116 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,239 Speaker 1: controlling that person's behavior. So I'll read that again because 117 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: I think it's important. But she says, a codependent person 118 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: is someone who lets another person's behavior affect him or 119 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: her and it's obsessed with controlling that person's behavior. That 120 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: is probably the best, short and simple way to describe 121 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: what this is. And now we're going to go into 122 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: the long and not a simple way to describe it. 123 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: Codependency is a pattern of behavior in which you find 124 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: yourself dependent on approval from someone else for your self 125 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: worth and your identity. Codependency refers to a pattern of 126 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: prioritizing needs of relationship partners or family members over your 127 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: personal needs and your personal desires. Now, it might not 128 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: be your intention to actually control the people in your life, 129 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: but often subconsciously this starts to happen over time because one, 130 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: your partner may come to depend on your help and 131 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: do less for themselves, and two, you end up attempting 132 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: to get your needs met, the need of being loved 133 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: and desired, by making sure other people's needs are met. Now, 134 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: in turn, you might end up feeling a sense of 135 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: fulfillment or purpose from these sacrifices that you make for 136 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: your partner, or you might start to feel resentment when 137 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: people don't act the way you want them to, or 138 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: you don't get reciprocal admiration back. Now. Some professionals say 139 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: that codependency is a normal reaction to abnormal people, and 140 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: then some say it's actually a disease, much like alcoholism 141 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: and addiction, and suggest that codependents want and need sick 142 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: people around them to be happy in a very unhealthy way. 143 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: I think that it's a combination of the two, which 144 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: it's like, this is a whole gray areas kind of 145 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: thing which I think a lot of people struggle with. 146 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: But with that, I want to say a couple of 147 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: things before we really get into more of this. All 148 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: of us have a smidge of codependency because our bodies 149 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: are wired for connection to other people. Some of us 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: just kind of let it take over our life, but 151 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: everybody has a degree of codependency because we are literally 152 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: wired to be in connection and relationship with people. That's 153 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: just how we're created now too. Codependents are really really 154 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: good people. I want you to hear this because I 155 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: think we can be really hard on those who are codependent, 156 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: But the truth is they're really actually hard enough on themselves. 157 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: We just don't always know that. And they honestly want 158 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: to help people. They're by nature very benevolent people. It's 159 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: a natural thing to want to help the people we 160 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: care about. They just take it to the extreme. This 161 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: becomes a problem because codependents are reactive versus active. They 162 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: are either under or overreactive to others, and then they 163 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: don't end up acting in their own life, and they 164 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: can create a pervasive pattern of habitual behaviors that are 165 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: self destructive and also enable the people around us. That's 166 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 1: the other things that we think we're helping, or codependent 167 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: thinks that they're helping, but really they end up enabling 168 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: and making a lot of people's unhealthy behaviors and patterns 169 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: that they're trying to fix even worse. So I do 170 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: want you to hear that, like, codependent people are good people. 171 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: Now some of them needs some tough love because this 172 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 1: is a hard thing to get out of. But if 173 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you identify it to be like, oh, 174 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: like I'm this horrible person, Like, no, you do this 175 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: because you have a good heart and you want to 176 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: be loved, That's when it comes down to. I want 177 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: to explain what this enabling situation can look like. And 178 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: I always end up thinking about a mom and a 179 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: son for so some reason. I think maybe it's because 180 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: I worked in treatment with men in the beginning of 181 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: my career, but I think that a really great example 182 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: of a codependent relationship and one that we can all 183 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: kind of imagine our head, is like a true mama's 184 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: boy situation. So I've had multiple experiences of real stories, 185 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: whether they're in my personal life or just seeing clients 186 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: and people in treatment who the addict. Let's say the 187 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: addict is in male, young male, and his parents kept 188 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: them so comfortable in their addiction because the parents didn't 189 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,719 Speaker 1: want their child to suffer, when in reality, let's say 190 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: it's the mom her save the day behavior hurt the 191 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: kid more than anything, and the best thing that happens 192 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times for some of these people are 193 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: struggling with addiction. It sounds awful, but like the best 194 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: thing that sometimes happens is being kicked out and cut 195 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: off from their parents, because in that they truly have 196 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: to make a decision to change their behavior if they 197 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: want something better. But if someone is always there to 198 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: save them, then they have no reason to do so. 199 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: And so the mom is trying to feel like she's 200 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: a good mom by always going and saving and here's 201 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars for this, and like, oh, like here's 202 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: some grocery money, or like, I'll help you pay your rent, 203 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: when like, in reality, one the kids probably not using 204 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: that money for groceries and rent and to like then 205 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: the kids learning or the child is learning like hey, 206 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: my mom is always going to be there to like 207 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: bail me out, so like this behavior is fine. So 208 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: the mom's taking care of her need of being one 209 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: needed and to being a good mom by like if 210 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: my kid's okay, I'm okay, but really her kid needs 211 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: to struggle and she can be okay outside of that. Yes, 212 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: it's hard, and so I say that, and I almost 213 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: feel like I water it down as explain it. But 214 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: that's just a really a good exam up of what 215 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: codependency can look like in an enabling situation. Now, what 216 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: kind of relationships can become codependent? Here is the scary truth. 217 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: While some people are set up to lean into these 218 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: patterns from childhood experiences, the real truth is anyone can 219 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: become codependent, and like I said, we all kind of 220 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: are to an extent. Now, some research suggests that people 221 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: who have parents who emotionally have abused them or neglected them, 222 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: and that they're like early childhood or teens are way 223 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: more likely to enter codependent relationships. And there's one common 224 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: denominator in dysfunctional family systems that actually lead to codependency, 225 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: and that is this thing called silent rules. And when 226 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: I say that, I mean like these implicit family rules 227 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: that nobody says, but we know that their rules, and 228 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: it's like not talking about feelings or not allowing vulnerability, 229 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: not being allowed to struggle or for pain to be 230 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: seen now they're also can be a pattern of choosing 231 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: part nurse friends or romantic that mimic the behavior as 232 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: you experience from caregivers growing up. For example, often we 233 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: wonder and adulthood why we end up chasing after relationships 234 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: with people who, maybe, for example, addicts, when we swore 235 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: that we would never date someone like our dad's if 236 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: our dad was an addict. Well, here's a couple of 237 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: things that explains that. One, we are attracted to what's familiar, 238 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: right like, we go with what we know and too 239 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: humans do this thing, this weird thing where they subconsciously 240 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: play out hurtful relationships with other people and attempt to 241 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: redo or fix the first relationship. So if I find 242 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: a man who's an addict, and if I get him 243 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: to love me and stop using and change his behavior 244 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: because he loves me so much and I'm so special, 245 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: then I can prove to myself that I am worthy. 246 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: And the reason that my dad never got better wasn't 247 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: because of me, And the reason my dad did X 248 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: y Z growing up wasn't because of me and me 249 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: not being good enough because I did that relationship. Now 250 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: let's talk about why we actually really really do this now. 251 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: Like I said before, codependent behaviors are typically rooted in childhood. 252 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: Patterns you learn from your parents and repeat in relationships. 253 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: Usually play out again and again until you put a 254 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: stop to them. They just will keep going again. Like 255 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: I said, like, we go with what we know now. 256 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: It's hard to break a pattern before you notice it. 257 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: So I want you all to offer a bit of grace. 258 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: If you're like, oh, like I've been doing this for 259 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: so long, give yourself some grace for not automatically stopping 260 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: a behavior that you didn't know is there or unhealthy. 261 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: Because the other thing is like, we don't know something's 262 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: bad or wrong. A lot of times I don't even 263 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: like using the word bad, But we don't really know 264 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: something's unhealthy until, like we are shown that, especially if 265 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: we grow up in a system that is very unhealthy, 266 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: we just think that's normal. Now. Codependent people tend to 267 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: rely on validation from others instead of self validation. Their 268 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: sense of worthiness and belonging is tied to thoughts, beliefs, 269 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: and actually and of other people, so co dependency and 270 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: low self esteem are often linked like BFFs. If you 271 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: link your self worth to your ability to care for others, 272 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: then developing a sense of self word that doesn't depend 273 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: on your relationships with others is gonna be really challenging. 274 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 1: So also I say this to kind of like get 275 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: out of these unhealthy patterns. It's hard now. These relationships 276 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: are very much I'm okay if you're okay, which a 277 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: lot of y'all said in the instagram a little question 278 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: I sent out. And here's the thing. The tendencies towards 279 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: self sacrifice might help you feel closer to your partner 280 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: while things are going really well, that I'm okay if 281 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: you're okay. The problem here is that when you aren't 282 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: doing things for them, you might feel like aimless or 283 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: like you don't have a purpose, or if they don't 284 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: actually do what you need them to do, then you 285 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: feel really uncomfortable, have low self esteem, and your world 286 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: is upside down. Okay, So how do you spot and 287 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: figure out if you actually are somebody who struggles with codependency? 288 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: This is obviously one of them important parts of this 289 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: whole podcast, because for anyone to find health and healing 290 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: from this, you first got it Like I said, figure 291 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: out if this is something that I'm struggling with the 292 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: awareness of it. The number one question I would ask 293 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: if you are trying to decide if you're struggling with 294 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: this would be do you have a tendency to gravitate 295 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: towards people who need a lot of help? Another question 296 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: that I think is telling is do you have a 297 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: hard time asking your partners for help? You can give 298 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: all the help there is out there, but for some reason, 299 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: you don't feel like it's okay for you to ask 300 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: for your needs to be helped me met. A couple 301 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: other things I want you to think about and see 302 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: if you feel is if you feel angry and unappreciated 303 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: for a lot of your efforts. Are you someone that 304 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: would do something like have sex with your partners whenever 305 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: they want despite how you feel. Do you spend money 306 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: and resources on things for other people that you really 307 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't do and then resent constantly giving to people. 308 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: Do you feel guilty when you don't do what is 309 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: asked of you or you don't meet the standards that 310 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: others create? Eight, And do you prioritize your day based 311 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: on your guilt? Do you think that doing things for 312 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: others regardless of how you feel. Means you're a good 313 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: partner and do you feel responsible for people's feelings You 314 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: try to manage them and then get angry when you can't. 315 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: Another key indicator of codependency is when your sense of 316 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: purpose in life is wrapped around making extreme sacrifices to 317 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: satisfy your partner's needs. Now again, it doesn't just mean 318 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: your romantic partner. These can be any relationships. These people 319 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: are unable to find satisfaction in their lives outside of 320 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: a specific person. They recognize unhealthy behaviors and partners, but 321 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: stay with them in spite of knowing that. And you 322 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: give support to partners at the cost of your own mental, emotional, 323 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: and physical health like legitimately at the cost of your 324 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: own health. If you're in a codependent relationship, you will 325 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: a lot of times feel anxiety more consistently than any 326 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: other emotion in their relationship. You'll also spend a great 327 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: deal of time or energy. This is really important, and 328 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: I think I've already said it like seven times, but 329 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: you'll spend a lot of time and energy trying to 330 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: change your partner or trying to comfort your partner. You 331 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: are preoccupied with your partner's behavior and well being, and 332 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: everything is really about them and fixing them. You're worry 333 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: more about the partner's behavior than they actually worry about it. 334 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: And again, your mood literally is dependent on how your 335 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: partner feels are acts. When they're okay, I'm okay, When 336 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: they're not okay, I'm not okay, And when they don't 337 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: do what I need them to do to be okay, 338 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm really not okay. Now. In that, I want you 339 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: to realize that while all this is going on and 340 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: you're giving, giving, giving, giving, there's not so much a 341 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: receiving end of that, right, So, like you're not, like 342 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: I said before, able to ask for help. So when 343 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: you have needs, they feel like they're too much or 344 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: you're not deserving of those needs being met, and you 345 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: really really lower your standards for people, and you really 346 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: make excuses for people a lot. So what are the 347 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: actual consequences of codependency Because some of you are all like, well, 348 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: at least I'm in this relationship, at least I have 349 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: this person, and if I'm helping them, like, what's the 350 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: big deal? Well, this if XO. In a lot of ways, 351 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: the tricky thing here is that at times, our codependency 352 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: tells us we have control and we are doing a 353 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: good job, because sometimes our attempts to conform and fix 354 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: and change work. The problem is that this is a 355 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: hamster wheel, and when it doesn't work, you feel crazy 356 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: and worthless, and you have to continue to do this 357 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: over and over and over. You are constantly worrying about 358 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: other people's stuff because to feel good, I have to 359 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 1: worry about other people's stuff. That just one sounds exhausting. 360 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: Now this also can lead to depression and severe anxiety, 361 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: and it helps, Like I said in the beginning, it 362 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: helps that people around to stay sick. Codependency can seem 363 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: really harmless, but because of the habitual unhealthy patterns it creates, 364 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: it actually can affect our mental health so so, so 365 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: so so much, And truly, sometimes the work to alleviate 366 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: someone's depression or anxiety is codependency work. And like that's it. 367 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: That's another reason why a lot of people who come 368 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: to therapy end up talking about and working on things 369 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: completely different than when they expected. And a lot of 370 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: times this stuff can kind of sting. So I want 371 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: to give a shout out to anyone who is very 372 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: repulsed by the idea that they are codependent. I know 373 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: it's painful to see these ikey patterns in ourselves, but 374 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: we have got to acknowledge them so we can change 375 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: them and create better circumstances for our mental health. Because honestly, 376 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that I even see in 377 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: my office is like our depression and anxiety is so 378 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: rooted in like the world around us, because we feel 379 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: like the world around us needs to be okay for 380 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: us to be okay. And that's codependency work. Now again, 381 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: a consequence here, it's also a loss of sense of self, 382 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: or maybe you never even get to develop a sense 383 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: of self. You become what you are to other people. 384 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: Your identity, your needs, your goals, those things are all 385 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: very very last on your list of priorities. You give 386 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: help to other people to feel good, and then you 387 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: get resentful when they don't act the way you need 388 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: them to act, and then you don't feel good. But 389 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: the reality is here, it's not the partner's fault, it's 390 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: not the other person's fault. Their stuff is their stuff. 391 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: This becomes your issue, and as adults, we are responsible 392 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: for our own actions. So I think it's really important 393 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: to also not just talk about what this is and 394 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: how it affects us, but how to get out of it. 395 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 1: So recovery from codependency lies within ourselves, truly us. The 396 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: first step, as always is awareness and admitting that something 397 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: is not working. So simply acknowledging these patterns is really 398 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: the key to overcoming them. I know as a therapist, 399 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: I cannot help anybody get out of unhealthy patterns unless 400 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: they acknowledge that they're in unhealthy patterns. Now, I think 401 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people's minds go straight to, well, I 402 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: guess I have to end this relationship, and actually breaking 403 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: up isn't necessarily the best or only solution. Sometimes it is. 404 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes it really is. I want you guys to pause 405 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: before or because I think that's one of the reasons 406 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't want to work on their 407 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: codependent behaviors because I think that if I do that, 408 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: I'll lose this relationship. Maybe that will happen, but also 409 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't always happen. Take a breather before you turn 410 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: this podcast off, and you're like, I'm not going to 411 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: work with my codependency because I need to be with 412 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: this person that might not be the case, and I 413 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: believe that because I think there's a lot of power 414 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: and repairing relationships rather than abandoning and leaving, although I 415 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: do also need you to hear and just like acknowledge 416 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: that there are many circumstances with codependent relationships where you 417 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: do end up needing to walk away because you learn 418 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: that you don't have the power to quote unquote fix 419 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,239 Speaker 1: the other person's behavior that ultimately causes you pain. A 420 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: great example of this as someone who's caught in a 421 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: cycle of addiction who's unwilling to get help. And so 422 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: the less codependent you become, actually the less attracted to 423 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: staying in that relationship you will be. I promise you 424 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: that I think it's hard to like really think about 425 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: this healing process and what it's going to look like 426 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: and and leaving or staying in a relationship it because 427 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: when you become more healthy, you're going to be attracted 428 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: to different things. So if I create more of a 429 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: sense of self and I become more of a healthy 430 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: human who has like my own individualized needs and desires 431 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: that I feel like are valuable and worth be met, 432 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: I will not still be drawn to relationships where I 433 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: feel like I have to fight for that and fix 434 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: other people to feel that. So a lot of us 435 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: are scared, like I don't want to lose my relationship, 436 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: so I don't want to get help from this. But 437 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: in reality, you probably won't feel that way if you 438 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: get help from it, which might not sound great right now, 439 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: but I promise if you do the work, it's going 440 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: to feel different now. To repair a codependent relationship, it's 441 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: important to set boundaries, and it's important to find happiness 442 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: as an individual outside of that relationship, especially because these 443 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: things can happen in any kind of relationship. I think 444 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: a lot of times, and even through this podcast it 445 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: sounds like I'm just talking about romantic partners, but this 446 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: can be any kind of relationship, a friend, a mom, 447 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: a dad, a cousin, whatever, a boss. It's also impairtive 448 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: to learn what a healthy relationship looks like because for 449 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: many people in these patterns, it comes from a modeling 450 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: of unhealthiness that is deemed as normal. So, like I 451 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: said in the beginning, it comes from we do what 452 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: we know, which is why if you're in it and 453 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 1: you don't have much of a problem with it, at 454 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: least in the beginning, it becomes like a what is 455 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: what it is like? Codependency just is what relationships are. 456 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,479 Speaker 1: But that's not true, and so you've got to learn 457 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: how to figure out and see and spot what a 458 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: healthy relationship is. Now, it's going to take more than 459 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: a podcast to learn what a healthy relationship is. You're 460 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: gonna have to feel that. And in healthy relationships, your 461 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: partner should care. I say that knowing that it's going 462 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: to take you, guys, more than a podcast to learn 463 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: what a healthy relationship is and what it feels like. 464 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: But I will say in healthy relationships, your partner should 465 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: care about your feelings and you should feel safe to 466 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 1: communicate your emotions and needs. You should also feel able 467 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: to voice an opinion that differs from there, and you 468 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: should be able to say no to something that conflicts 469 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: with your own needs. Healthy love involves a cycle of 470 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: comfort and contentment. Like there is comfort and contentment, not always, 471 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: but it's there. Toxic love involves the cycle of pain 472 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: and despair. So that's what you're cycling around now. Both 473 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: can have contentment and despair and either one, but it 474 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: doesn't revolve around it. I also think it's important to 475 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: note for someone who is used to engaging in these 476 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: relationships cycles. Healthy relationships can often feel boring to them 477 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: because the arousal template for relationships is much higher for 478 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: someone who has experienced emotional or physical abuse, which can 479 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: lead to codependency, and so you end up kind of 480 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: thriving on chaos at times, and for you, chaos feels normal, 481 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: So what would be exciting and a healthy relationship would 482 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: feel really mundane and ache and weird. I like to say, 483 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: if you're used to being an unhealthy relationship and you 484 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: find yourself in a born relationship, that's probably a good sign. 485 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 1: Once your arousal template for relationships settles back down, healthy 486 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: relationships will be at attractive to you. But I think 487 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: a really good marker for people who are trying to 488 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: find health in their relationships, who are used to chaos 489 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: and and ickiness in them and abuse and all of 490 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: that stuff is if your board, you're probably on the 491 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: right track. Now. Boundaries. We hear so much about these, 492 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: but many of us are still like, what, what's a boundary? 493 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: What do they look like? How do I decide what 494 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: they are like? All of the questions, and to be honest, 495 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: boundaries are pretty tough for everyone. So it my take 496 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,479 Speaker 1: some practice before you can firmly and repeatedly honor your 497 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 1: own boundaries when it comes to codependent relationships. These are 498 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: some tips that I have found that really helped to start. One, 499 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: learn how to identify when you need a boundary and 500 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: also identify what you need and how to communicate it. 501 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: So one listen with empathy, but then stop. This is 502 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: so so, so so so hard. But honestly, unless you're 503 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: involved with the problem, I urge you to not offer 504 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: solutions to try to fix whatever the issue is for them. 505 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: This can also help aviate the enabling we do in 506 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: these relationships, and it forces others to be responsible for themselves. 507 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: So if you're somebody who always is there for other 508 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: people generally and like you're the one you're the fixer, 509 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: practice what it feels like to just be present and like, 510 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: as therapists, a lot of what we do is we 511 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: don't fix people's problems. We listen. And that's why sometimes, 512 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: like I know, for me, I mean even now sometimes, 513 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: but in the beginning it was really hard to be 514 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: a therapist because I wanted to help, but sometimes helping 515 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: really look like me being like that's really tough. Oh 516 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: my gosh, and them saying so, yeah, it's really tough. 517 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: What do I do? Like how do I get out 518 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: of this? And I say, how do you think you 519 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: might get out of this? You know? And so it 520 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: puts the responsibility back on that person. Now, another thing 521 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: to help with boundaries just practice saying no kindly. Often 522 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 1: we think that say no sounds mean or like is mean, 523 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: but I promise it's not. I mean, you have to 524 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: be careful with how you say it, but this is 525 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: a great way to show self respect and you can 526 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: try different things. But something like I'm sorry, I'm I'm 527 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: not free at the moment if somebody asked you to 528 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 1: help with something or I'd rather not tonight, but maybe 529 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: in another time we can do something. If somebody's asking 530 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 1: from something of you and you really just don't want 531 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: to do it, practice saying no in a kind way. Also, 532 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to figure out more about your needs, 533 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: so question yourself before you do something. Ask yourself the 534 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: following questions before you agree to do something, why am 535 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: I doing this? Do I want to do this? Or 536 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: do I feel like I have to do this? Well, 537 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: I still have energy to meet my own needs and 538 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: and get what I want to get out of this 539 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: day or this week if I do this, and is 540 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: this going to drain my resources? And resources can be time, money, energy, 541 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: I mean anything. You've got to remind yourself that you 542 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: can only control yourself and you have a responsibility to 543 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: manage your own behavior and reactions. You are not responsible 544 00:27:54,240 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: for anyone else's behaviors or actions. I wish part of 545 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: me does wish that this was not true. But no 546 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: matter what we do, no matter what boundary we set, 547 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: boundaries are not about changing people's behaviors. Boundaries are about 548 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: respecting ourselves. Now, the bonus would be that somebody's behavior 549 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: would change, that would be the bonus. That would be great, 550 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: But we have to go into boundary setting thinking I'm 551 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: I'm setting this for me, and I'm responsible with holding 552 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: this boundary for me. So the kind of boundaries were 553 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: really talking about right now are internal boundaries. So right 554 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: now I want you guys to think about what are 555 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: the boundaries I need to set for myself, not what 556 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: are the boundaries that I need to ask other people 557 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: to engage in. That's a whole another kind of boundary talk, 558 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: and I think we've talked about that on the podcast before, 559 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: but today I'm really when it comes to codependency, I'm 560 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: really asking you to think about what are the internal 561 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: boundaries I need to set for myself that helped me 562 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: meet my needs myself. And what you are doing by 563 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: setting boundaries in these relationships is you're giving up the 564 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: idea of having control. But here's the thing. In reality, 565 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: even when we think we have it, we ever really 566 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: fully have control of other people's behavior. We just don't. 567 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: There's no way to do that. Like I said, I 568 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: wish we could. Giving up control involves accepting uncertainty, and 569 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: that is a really hard, scary thing, especially if the 570 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: fear of being alone or losing your relationship contributes to 571 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,479 Speaker 1: your codependent behaviors. And at the same time, it's kind 572 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: of what we need to do here because and hear 573 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: me when I say this, the healthier your relationship is, 574 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: the more likely it is to last. Repeat that part like, 575 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: rewind it and repeat it like four hundred times. The 576 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: healthier your relationship is, the more likely it is to last. 577 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: The more codependent your relationship is, the more pattern of 578 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: unhappiness you'll have, and the less likely it is to 579 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: really be successful long term. Now, the most important part 580 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: in all of this is definitely to identify your own 581 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: needs and to do things for yourself. And this is 582 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: harder than it sounds, and it's something that therapy can 583 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: actually really help with. And if you're finding yourself at 584 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: the moment being like, oh my gosh, I don't know 585 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: where to start, I don't know how to set these boundaries, 586 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how to answer these questions, this is 587 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: so much I really want to encourage you to reach 588 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: out to a therapist. And I've been getting a lot 589 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: of questions on Instagram and even through email about that 590 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: can help people find a therapist or I can be 591 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: their therapist. And while I love to help people get help, 592 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: that's the point of this podcast, I'm really not the 593 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: best person to ask to help you find a therapist 594 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: in your area because I really only know and have 595 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: experience with therapists in my area. And I put a 596 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: post on the at You Need Therapy podcast page that 597 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: gives tips on how to find a therapist, and I've 598 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: did done a couch talks about it too, So I'm 599 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: gonna put that how to find a therapist in the 600 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: highlights on my Instagram page. You guys can go and 601 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: see it, and it just gives step by step tips 602 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: on how to find somebody. And so if you are 603 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: somebody that is listening to this today and really is 604 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: gravitating towards it, one, I really really want to encourage 605 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: you to find a therapist because codependency work is really 606 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: really challenging, and I say that with like a heavy heart, 607 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: like this is hard stuff and so sometimes we really 608 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: just need somebody along the way with us to help 609 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: us move through this. So I encourage you to find 610 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: a therapist. And then also those two books that I mentioned, 611 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: Codependent No More and Facing Codependency, there by far the 612 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: number one rex I would give to y'all. I know 613 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 1: we're we went into detail of codependency, but still, like 614 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: forty minutes of talking about codependency doesn't even do it justice. 615 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: So I feel like there's so much more I wanted 616 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: to say, and so much more I want to say, 617 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll go into more detail at some point. 618 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: But I hope this was helpful and I hope that 619 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: this created some lightbulb moments for y'all. If you have 620 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: any questions, feel free to send them in and maybe 621 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: I can go into more detail on the couch Talks 622 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: on on some of the things you're wondering about this stuff. 623 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: A lot of times I say that this comfort that 624 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: learning things brings us actually is a good thing because 625 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: that leads us to actually finding like true healing. So 626 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: if you're feeling uncomfortable listening to this podcast, maybe that's 627 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: a good thing. So I hope this was helpful, and 628 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for listening and tuning in 629 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: again every day you're listening to I always want to 630 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 1: say Monday, but I realized that not everybody listens to 631 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: this on Mondays. So anyway, happy day whatever it is today. 632 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: If you want to follow me and be more connected 633 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: to me on Instagram, you can at at cat dot 634 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: de fata. If you have questions you want me to 635 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: answer for couch Talks, which is the Q and A 636 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: episode that happens every Wednesday, you can email Catherine K 637 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: A T h R y N at You Need Therapy 638 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: podcast dot com and I will hopefully at some point 639 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: and get to all of the questions you send in. 640 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: But besides that, I hope you have the day you 641 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: need to have and I will see you guys again 642 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: on Wednesday.