WEBVTT - Grok Is Good, Actually, and a Tesla Recall 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.880 Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.039 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.080 controlled by one man. 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.160 Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.919 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. He says. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.560 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:22.000 be different. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.040 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.760 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:26.160 on him. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:29.960 Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:43.680 Anything he does is fascinating the people. Welcome to Elon Inc. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.400 Where we discuss Elon Musk's vast corporate empire, his latest 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:49.840 gambits and antics, and how to make sense of it all. 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.040 I'm your host, David Papadopolis. We were surprised this week 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:58.120 to learn from our colleague Sharen Gafari that GROC, the 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.600 AI chatbot from Elon Musk, this very new AI company, 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.399 is actually giving programs like Chad GBT a serious run 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.760 for their money. We were less surprised when we saw 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.760 the EU as investigating X for illicit content and disinformation 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:16.479 on the platform, and we did raise our eyebrows when 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.400 a recall alert for Tesla's autopilot software went out last week. Now, 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.480 this wasn't the kind of recall we're all used to. 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.119 The company called for users to update their cars software remotely. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.400 It felt like a peek into the future of cars. 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.200 To discuss all of this and more, we've beamed in Sharene, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.480 who reports on AI for US in San Francisco. Hello, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:45.280 hither and Max Schafkin, senior reporter and editor at Bloomberg BusinessWeek. 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.000 Hello David, Hello Max. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.480 Later on, Dana Hall, our longtime Tesla reporter, will join 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:57.040 us as well. Okay, so now Max, we know, okay 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.480 that recently you had a little cameo and last week 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.400 tonight with John Oliver, they found some old tape that 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:06.240 they put on. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:08.040 So in that way, he's kind of the Henry Ford 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:09.160 of space. 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.800 But you know, Max, we also pulled some old tape 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:15.880 of yours on our very first podcast, our debut episode, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.160 in which you said this about groc. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.720 Until people start actually using this, I think it's worth 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.240 like thinking about this as vaporware or not even taking 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.519 it seriously as a real product. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.400 All right, Well, stand okay, so Max, we'll give you your time. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.600 Just pipe down, you'll get your chance to respond. But Sharen, 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:38.200 you've tried groc Out for a few days recently. What 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:39.280 did you find? 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:46.239 It exceeded my expectations? I like max given first of all, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:50.640 how how much other companies had leg up over Elon 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.200 with this one right open a eyes chat SPT came 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.400 out over a year ago. Google's been working on AI forever. 0:02:58.040 --> 0:02:59.800 I didn't think in a matter of a couple months 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.560 and a small team could spin up something that would 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.440 significantly be better than any of the other AI chatbots 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.440 out there. However, I did find that, especially with one 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.840 important use case for me, which is summarizing real time events, 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:14.400 Rock performed really well. 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.079 And when you say really well, a tell us what 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.720 that looked like? What really well looked like? And is 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.280 really well better than the competition? 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.600 Yes, I should say really well comparative to other chatbots 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.240 that are out there right now, I think none of 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.639 these tools are anywhere near perfect. They're still wrong a 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.920 good percentage of the time. I will caveat that my 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.480 test was not a scientific one. You know, I used 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.080 it for three days and asked a bunch of news 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.000 questions basically, and you know how it did better? Was 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:45.720 that a lot of times? And I've written about this 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.000 in the past. The mainstream chatbots out there, the leading 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.480 moost cutting edge ones can be really smart if you 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.960 ask them to solve, you know, a math problem or 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.840 to write you a poem in the style of Shakespeare. 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.840 But when you have some about current events, they can 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:05.120 just totally get stumped and flub the answer because even 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.119 as they're even if they're being updated with real time information, 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.520 it takes training to be able to tell you know 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.400 that the chat bought hey, this is right, this is wrong, 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:16.720 and you can't constantly be training something in real time 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.080 at least they haven't figured that out quite yet. And 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.880 so where Grock excelled was that when I asked it 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.080 about the news, it actually was able to give me, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.760 in my experience, a better answer, more or less than 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.200 the other ones out there, like chat, Scheept, your Google's. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.479 Bard and so you're talking about right, you asked the 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:37.120 things about the Israel Hamas war, you asked the things 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.080 about the cop twenty eight climate summit, and it did 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:46.039 write better often than Chat, chapt and Bart. So Max Chafkin, what. 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.280 Say you, I agree with everything Shreena's saying. I mean 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:51.680 it's a really. 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.120 You retract your statements from Wakwa. 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:55.279 No, because I do. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.400 First of all, it's not clear how quickly they put 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.800 this thing together, like it might have been true, you know, 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.440 four weeks ago when I said it, and maybe they 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:07.880 actually moved really quickly. I also think, you know, it's 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:09.320 sort of hard to know how to think about this 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:11.440 because on one hand, you know, it's like, Wow, what 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.480 an impressive showing by Elon Musk. He's still got it right, 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.400 Like he can small team, he's able to, you know, 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:22.120 despite all of the crazy things swirling around him, he's 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.040 able to recruit competent engineers and who are able to 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.880 then build a product. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:27.400 I mean, the other way looking. 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.000 At is I guess maybe chat GPT wasn't quite as 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.640 good as we thought. Maybe like that thirteen billion dollars 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.920 that open Ai spent, or you know, this enormous amount 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.279 of money, many years spent. The fact that one guy 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.040 could replicate it in a matter of I don't know, 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:42.760 we don't know exactly how long they built this, but 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:43.680 probably a few months. 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:46.560 What does that say about the state of the art. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.360 Maybe it's maybe these maybe these chatbots just aren't as 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.080 great as they as we thought they were. Or maybe 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:53.800 a better way to say it would be maybe these 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.040 chatbots aren't as like sort of defensible as we thought 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.800 they were. Maybe, like there's not that much unique in anything. 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.440 There's not much of a n buffet terms of a 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:06.880 moat around them as as one would have thought. I mean, now, sure, 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.640 and you're you're saying you peppered it with news questions 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.000 when and to to help you be up to date 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.799 on what's going on in the in the open AI space, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.040 in the artificial intelligence space. How important is that functionality? 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.680 Is that something that people would actually legitimately use it 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:23.240 a lot for? 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.680 Look, I think there's there's you know, you don't always 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:29.200 need to know what's happening in right away, like right now. 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.200 For example, if you're just interested in using these bots 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.520 to code, to help you code, it doesn't really matter. 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.520 Code doesn't you know, change minute by minute. But if 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:39.760 you care, and when you think about when you use 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.159 Google every day, right, how many times does it matter 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.160 if information is fresh when you Google a lot of 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.039 times it matters, like if you want to know when 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:48.719 the super Bowl is or if you want to know 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:50.919 like when to go to the movies, Like, so I 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.120 asked it you know about Israel Amas war and I 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:54.800 did that because in the past when I had asked 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.800 Google's chatbot and chat Shept, it was flat out wrong. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.160 It was telling me, you know, in the p the 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.160 heat of the war, it was telling me there's been 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:05.000 a ceasefire, which was just not true. And when I 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:08.000 asked GROC, it gave a pretty nuanced and correct answer. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:09.960 Well, exactly was that answer? 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.400 It was pretty concise. It was about a paragraph. It said, 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.640 you know, the war is continuing, there's no end in sight. 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.280 It listed, you know, an estimate of the casualties and 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.760 gave sources for those casualties. And you know, the reason 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.000 I think that that GROC may be better with this 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.240 and some of its competitors is because, first of all, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.360 it's willing to engage on some of the stuff. So 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.679 when you asked Bart about the Israel mas war, for example, 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.760 after Bard a couple of months ago, embarrassing. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:36.480 Or declined to comment. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.680 Basically Bard declined to comment, right, And then this is 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.440 mind you after my reporting that it flunked on this 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.240 question a few months ago, so now it seems like 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.000 it's shut down the answer entirely to what's happening with 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.800 Israel Amas war. Chech Pt did give a directionally correct 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:53.040 answer actually performed better than I thought it would. But 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.000 Groc's answer was more concise. It listed references better I thought, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.560 And I think a big reason for that is because 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:04.000 it's pulling from from tweets or I should call them exposts. 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.720 And you know, what was really surprising to me was 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.800 that I thought, Okay, even if it's pulling from people's exposts, 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:11.520 that a lot of them could be junkie. I mean, 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.760 just looking at my own, for you feet as degraded 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.520 in the past couple of months or a year, I 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.720 should say. However, when I asked Rock, it seemed like 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.360 it was filtering where a majority of vast majority of 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.080 sources it was pulling from. The in these tweets or 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.360 exposts were you know, mainstream news sources like Bloomberg, like 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.640 the Financial Times, Sky News. 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.600 Wait, which, so they're siting Bloomberg, Oh we love Grock, 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:35.480 then Croc's great. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:37.480 Now, of course they're going to be right if they're 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:38.160 signing Bloomberg. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:40.199 Now, Max, in. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.959 That opening episode, when you were expressing those concerns and 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.600 and and your your you know the fact that you 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.880 were a bit dubious about it, that was specifically one 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.400 of the things you brought up that hey, if you're 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.520 pulling from X, which is what GROC is going to 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.680 largely be doing. And indeed, as as Sharen was saying 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.400 that the content on X is taking a turn for 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.840 the worst, how relyible can it be? So I guess 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:03.680 maybe they've managed to come up with the formula to 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:04.240 make this work. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.600 I mean to me, what's most from a sort of 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.000 if you were an investor in one of Elon Musk's companies, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:10.679 or you were his friend or something, what will be 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.800 most encouraging about this is that you have the rhetoric, right, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.199 you have Elon Musk talking twenty four to seven about 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.360 the woke mind virus, and then you look at what 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.840 grog is actually doing. I was reading Sharen's story and 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.280 I saw Financial Times, Bloomberg, Wall Street Journal like Where's 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.280 cat Turn? And you realize, like, this thing has the 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.960 woke mind virus at least as Elon Musk has articulated it, 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:36.240 and so clearly he is sick. He's able to you know, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.320 this would make you think, okay, maybe what's going on 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.400 in his own personal you know, Twitter feed X feed 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.000 is a performance and when it when it really matters, 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.840 when it gets down to business, he's making better decisions 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.280 or people underneath him are able to say, like, look like, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.840 let's not like exclusively compose these answers of like the 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.400 right wing influencers that are you know, friends with Elon. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:01.559 Let's let's useables. So GROC is so far better than expected. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.600 It's doing well, It's passed some surprisingly some early tests. 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.920 Scharene does does it matter though, like in terms of 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.280 making this some way scalable monetizable in a way that 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.960 matters for XAI and for X and for Musk. Yeah, 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.800 is there is Does this have any actual import it? 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.920 Could you Look, if X really builds a reputation for 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.720 being the chatbot that will give you the most accurate 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.480 information about the world as it's happening, I can definitely 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.040 see that being monetizable or being a competitive asset. But 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.800 it's quite you know, a paradox because at the same time, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.520 as you're pointing out, Musk is under fire for quite 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:46.600 the opposite, right for you know, how unreliable some people 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.240 are finding X to be. So it's kind of a 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:53.160 hard sell too, even if Grok is exceeding expectations in 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.319 this in this one area, it's the area of exact 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.720 weakness for him right now in terms of X's perception. 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.240 Now, Max, indeed you are in general you're dubious about AI, 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:09.600 not just as it applies to Grock, but across the board. 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:11.200 What's your take on this? 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:16.840 I mean, I think, look in certain ways, it makes 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.559 a lot of sense, just because Elon Musk needs to 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.160 create some reason for people to use this site and 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.000 to subscribe to X premium and Groc would be a 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:27.480 way to do that. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.160 So who does indeed have access to GROC? Who can 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:31.760 use Grok? 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:32.160 Right now? 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.280 I believe it's it's I hope I'm getting the branding right. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.080 I think it's ex Premium plus users. This is the 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.040 higher tier from the. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:44.000 Twitter blue and apparently that group includes Scharene from what 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:44.679 we can tell. 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.120 Sharen, is it like twenty bucks a month or how much? 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:48.240 How much are you show up? 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.599 That's right, I'm a VIP users. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.920 I believe it's around sixteen dollars a month, and it 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.040 is the highest package you can get on the pagement. 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.880 And I got it specifically for this reason, mind you, 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.120 not for my own vanity for the check mark. I 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.440 got it just because I wanted to test out there 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:06.480 likely story. 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:10.080 I mean, there's some really interesting issues around corporate governance 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.880 because it seems like Grock is a separate company, and 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:16.480 yet clearly it's very closely tied in with X. It 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.080 seems to be part of Elon Musk's plan to like, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.600 you know, save the value of his investment. 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.120 So so I think that that's one thing. 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.560 The other thing is, you know, for a long time, 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.280 even going back to the to the old Twitter, everyone 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.760 knew there was a lot of value in the data 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:35.160 contained in tweets, and and Twitter had had a really 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.760 reliable revenue stream. I think to some extent still does 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.080 selling that data called the fire hose to companies that 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.720 would essentially pay for it and analyze it and so 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.800 on and and so you know, in certain ways, Grock 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.319 is like a logical the logical next step. On the 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.360 other hand, in other ways, the kind of Elon Musk 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.959 media troll way he has undermined that he's undermined Twitter 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.679 X as a sort of reliable record of sentiment, whereas 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.840 now it's it's more like a reliable reliable record for 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.400 sentiment in certain domains like sports and so on. I 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.400 bet you Grock will be great on you know, the 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:12.800 question of like which who to start in your fantasy 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.280 league or whatever, and less reliable on some of these 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.400 more controversial issues where we've seen really seen an impact 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.720 of Elon Musk's you know, leadership, or and and sort 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.280 of the the right wingification of the site, so. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.160 Max and and in that vein. Then the EU investigation 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.840 of X which was announced i believe earlier this week 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.720 for disinformation. They're investigating on disinformation and illicit content. Does 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.040 this does the fact that GROC is a more reliable source, 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.480 does this in any way, shape or form help them 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.520 fend off that EU investigation? Are these totally unrelated things. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:52.280 You know, I'm not an expert on European technology regulation. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.599 I'm not sure that anybody is, but I know I 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:57.600 don't think it does. I mean, this is very much 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.720 a niche product. If what you're worried about is misinformation 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.880 hate speech. By the way, in parts of Europe, of course, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.640 in Germany, certain kinds of hate speech that is you know, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.000 allowed in the United States is not allowed there. So 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.560 if you're worried about like bad content broadcasting widely, this 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.280 doesn't do anything to address that. Right, You're talking about 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.240 a very narrow segment that has access to this thing 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.560 using it in a narrow way. I don't think Sharene 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.840 was the kind of person who was, like, you know, 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.400 liable to like retweet, you know, the latest cat turd 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.400 or whatever. And that's the kind of thing that European 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.000 regulators are worried about, although I should correct myself and 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.000 say I don't think they're specifically concerned about cat turn 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.880 I'm using that right stand in for the overall issue 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.160 of disinformation. When I was in college, we had a 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.160 cat called Claws, and so it's kind of like the 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:46.520 same thing. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:47.800 It's like a small part. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.840 I got to describe the whole cat, the whole understood, 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.480 by the way, And I don't know if anybody saw 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:56.720 this or anybody can make heads or tails of it. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.400 So there's there's another groc out there is this? 0:14:59.480 --> 0:14:59.680 Right? 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:00.480 Is anybody? 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:00.880 Yes? 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:01.920 This is so confusing? 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.280 This may help us, Serene. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:04.520 Okay. 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.600 So Elon Musk's former partner and you know, mother to 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.840 his children. So she came out with a rocket ship 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:18.720 AI plushy from Curio named Grock, same name, and this 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.920 came out. This was announced, you know, I believe let's see, 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.840 just like was it last week? She announced on Instagram. 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.960 It's this really cute looking you know, great, I saw it. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.200 It's not basically stufty animal, that's aipower. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.680 What kind of odd so Grock custody battle. Yeah, I 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.360 don't know exactly, so GROC. So we're they're fighting over 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.000 the kids and now they're fighting over Groc And yeah, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.520 it's odd. We went from having zero Gros in our 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.920 lives the now multiple in the span of weeks. So 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.800 do we think that this was deliberate? 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.000 Like is this like? I mean, it would have to 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:48.360 be right. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.720 There's no way that they could have just independently arrived 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:52.920 at the same So I. 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.120 Saw a techcrun headlines today that she had the trademark 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:57.680 before he did or something. I don't know if that 0:15:57.720 --> 0:15:58.960 means you came up with it first. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.680 But we're going to say goodbye to Sharen for now. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.240 That was great train that we're going to have you 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.160 back on both later in the show, and we're going 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.440 to have you back on once you you know, test 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:15.440 other elements of Groc will bring you back. Okay, So 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.480 welcome back. Max and I are still here, and we're 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.800 bringing in Dana Hall, our longtime Tesla reporter, to help 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:26.600 us talk about the recall. Hello Dana, Hello Hello. Okay, 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.560 So Tesla indeed recalled a few cars the other day, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.640 and you know, it's attracted a lot of attention because 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.160 even my mother, who doesn't happen to own a Tesla, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.160 asked me what was going on, So Dana help her 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.000 and everyone else out what exactly did Tesla do and 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:42.480 how big a deal is this. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.240 So the first thing to know is that the word 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.360 recall is a little bit of an anachronism when it 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.280 comes to the auto industry these days. You hear recall 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.920 and you think, oh my god, like all of these cars, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.760 like two million cars are going to be yanked off 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.520 the roads. It's like, you know, like a baby's toy 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.600 is recalled because there's a choke hazard. Like the idea 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:03.800 of a recall makes you think that everything is off 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.720 the market. But you know, now, like a lot of automakers, 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:11.720 it's Tesla in particular, they can improve the product via 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.600 over the air software updates. So, yes, this was a recall, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.600 but the remedy is that, you know, Tesla, free to consumers, 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:22.800 is going to beam and over the air software update 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:25.239 to everyone and the consumer does not need to do 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:27.920 anything you don't need to bring it into a shop. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.919 You can still drive it. This is Tesla basically admitting, voluntarily, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.040 with Nitza's guidance, that autopilot is a problem and that 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.040 drivers tend to get lulled into kind of like a 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.920 sense of complacency, and that in certain conditions drivers may 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.000 not pay attention. So the remedy is that Tesla's going 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.760 to nag you a little bit more to keep your 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.440 hands on the wheel and your eyes on the road. 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.320 And I think the significance here is that, you know, 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.919 for years, like Nitza has been working with Tesla to 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.320 kind of improve the company's safety culture. They invest gated 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.399 all these accidents where Tesla drivers on autopilot or with 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.560 autopilot engaged seem to keep smashing into stationary fire trucks, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.600 and it was like, hmm, what's going on with that? 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.720 And then you know, this kind of recall that was 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.600 announced last week was basically the result of those two 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.800 years of negotiations back and forth between the regulatory agency 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:20.440 and the company. 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.440 It's Dan's right that, like, you know, there you could 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.159 read this in a very literal way and think, oh 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:28.760 my god, they're going to take all these cars and 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:30.200 you're gonna have to give them back and they're gonna 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:31.520 be whatever rebil. 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.440 A literal sense in the old in the old sense 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:34.960 of the world. 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:36.920 Well maybe, but I mean a lot of recalls work 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:39.720 like this, Like if your Ikea bookshelf was recalled, they 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.960 don't take the bookshelf back. They just send you like 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.760 the new pins to like hold the shelves in better. 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.880 But it is bad, and it's it's bad, especially in 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.800 relation to what Elon Musk has been saying for years 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.639 and years and years. We are so far away from 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:59.520 the swaggering you know, we're gonna have robotaxis immediately. You 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.199 barely have to look at this thing. You know, I 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.840 before before going on, like I went back and you know, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.359 there was that that video that that they ran, the 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.720 Painted Black video. I think Dana is that the right 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:10.960 song from sixteen? 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:11.280 Yeah. 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.199 Yeah, it's just like awesome video where the cars like 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.359 driving around and there's a little thing on the bottom 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.560 of the screen says the driver is not doing anything, 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.440 he's just there for legal reasons. 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.120