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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts.

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Speaker 2: Giants, get my Giants, give me some job.

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Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's roll.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, all

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Speaker 3: brought to you by Citizens the official bank of the Giants.

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Speaker 3: I am John Schmelk. We're joined from NFL Network. The

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Speaker 3: one and only Cynthia Frieland. Do we determined last time

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Speaker 3: she was on at the Combine? Is officially the analytics Queen?

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Speaker 3: Is what we landed on for your title? I think,

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Speaker 3: are you still going?

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Speaker 2: I think that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, math, Queen, do you like that better?

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Speaker 2: No? I think I think it's a good one. You know,

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Speaker 2: like I feel like there should be some mathy word

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Speaker 2: in there, Like I got to figure out like a

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Speaker 2: good math word. But what Queen will do for now?

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Speaker 2: You know, in the meantime, I can just go with Queen.

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Speaker 1: It's fine, all right.

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Speaker 3: So we're gonna warn our viewers before we start here.

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Speaker 3: If you like offensive line and you like math and

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Speaker 3: nerd them, you're gonna love the next twenty minutes or

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Speaker 3: so because we're gonna dig deep into this. And we

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Speaker 3: kind of touched on it when we spoke in Indianapolis

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Speaker 3: of the Combine Cynthia, we decided to reconnect to do

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Speaker 3: something a little bit longer on it.

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Speaker 1: I frankly, I thought it was fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Let's start with the origin story first, on how you

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Speaker 3: kind of got onto this study of offensive linemen and

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Speaker 3: how you evaluate them.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know that everyone listening knows that the Combine

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Speaker 2: is the best event of the entire football calendar. It's

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Speaker 2: not just like, you know not because it's really predictive

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Speaker 2: of too much from the standpoint of like you know

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Speaker 2: what your exact forty time is, et cetera. But you

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Speaker 2: do get to connect with absolutely everyone in the league.

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Speaker 2: And Russ Grimm, he used to be a Washington player

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Speaker 2: and at the time was a Tennessee Titans offensive line coach.

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Speaker 2: He told me that there was nothing analytics would ever

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Speaker 2: do that would be of interest to him. He said

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Speaker 2: a little more harshly, because that's how Russ talks. I

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Speaker 2: didn't take it personal, but he was like, there's nothing

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Speaker 2: you could ever talk about with them numbers that would

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Speaker 2: ever be interesting to me. Right. So I then decided

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Speaker 2: that the subjects of my master's thesis at Northwestern and

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Speaker 2: you know, you can go google how much that cost

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Speaker 2: would be measuring offensive linemen to see if there's anything

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Speaker 2: that could be predictive about college level play transferring to

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Speaker 2: the NFL in terms of you know, wastebender, so basically

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Speaker 2: unfavorable leverage, so you know who's going to get smoked

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Speaker 2: and let your quarterback get smoked, or who has a

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Speaker 2: better chance at the next level to be a guy

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Speaker 2: who can be a brick wall that your quarterback will

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Speaker 2: appreciate standing behind.

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Speaker 3: Now, one of your colleagues, Shoon O'Hara, has tried to

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Speaker 3: teach me how to evaluate offensive line play right and

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Speaker 3: one thing you're right, he always talks to me about

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Speaker 3: is guys that bend at the waste, which they lose

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Speaker 3: all their leverage and lose their bounds. When you're talking

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Speaker 3: to Russ Grimm, what were some of the reasons he

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Speaker 3: gave you for why that specific factor was so important

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Speaker 3: when evaluating offensive line play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we talked about, you know, your ankle flexion,

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Speaker 2: your knee flexion, your hip flexion, your lower back bend,

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Speaker 2: so your sacral spines ability to withstand pressure, and your

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Speaker 2: ability to like lift your hands up in time. And

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Speaker 2: then how does it work going laterally left right, because

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Speaker 2: you know, you can imagine your and these are big humans, right,

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Speaker 2: your center of gravity is different, it's in a different

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Speaker 2: spot when if your hands are down, then if they're up,

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Speaker 2: and if you're how you're standing. So some people have

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Speaker 2: different stances and to begin with, and they teach it

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Speaker 2: different ways. Very very interesting part. But your ankle flexions,

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Speaker 2: So how your ankle can vend your knee flexion obviously,

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Speaker 2: how much your knees convent and your hips. So I

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Speaker 2: went and spent a lot of time with a bunch

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Speaker 2: of exercise science specialists at you know, doctors, kinesiologies, like

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Speaker 2: all these people who understand movement to talk about like hamstrings,

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Speaker 2: Like I learned more about knees, hamstrings, calves, squads, your

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Speaker 2: hip flexers, your soas all of these things growins all

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Speaker 2: like a growing pull for an olignment totally totally bigger

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Speaker 2: deal than maybe people think about because of the way

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Speaker 2: it aligns your hips and allows you to block a

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Speaker 2: defender that's coming your way. So I spent a lot

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Speaker 2: of time with those people, spent a lot of time

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Speaker 2: with my true statistical professors who were like, you know,

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Speaker 2: so they can go show me what's causal versus just correlated, right,

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Speaker 2: and how to determine. So like you know, we also

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Speaker 2: wear like our squared values that we're getting nerdy here

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Speaker 2: like that where you said nerdy, we're going nerdy, We're in.

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Speaker 2: But basically, how how much something actually is related to

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Speaker 2: the outcome? So you know, there's a certain amount of

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Speaker 2: something input that is related to output, and you want

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Speaker 2: it to be of enough relevance so that you can

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Speaker 2: say that this is actually related to an outcome that

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Speaker 2: you're seeing on the field.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I guess before we get into some of

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Speaker 3: the details on how you measured some of this stuff,

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Speaker 3: I got to imagine the reason this is so important

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Speaker 3: is that this doesn't sound like something that's coachable, teachable

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Speaker 3: or trainable.

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Speaker 1: A lot of that is just kind of how your.

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Speaker 3: Body is built and how your body works, right, So

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Speaker 3: this is something a guy can necessarily improve. You either

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Speaker 3: kind of have it or you don't, and that sets

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Speaker 3: your kind of baseline level of how good of a

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Speaker 3: player you can be.

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Speaker 2: Fair And the other way to think of it, too,

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Speaker 2: is in college. So the interesting part about the college

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Speaker 2: data that was a little challenging at first was you

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Speaker 2: grow up in college. And some guys come to college

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Speaker 2: at seventeen, some come at nineteen, some are you know,

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Speaker 2: everyone remembers growing up late bloomers, early bloomers. You know,

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Speaker 2: I went to college with Matthias q Nuka, who grew

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Speaker 2: like three inches in college. Like that's a ridiculous thing

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Speaker 2: to have happen and be able to accurately measure. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of it is forecasting where they are in

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Speaker 2: their growth. Because I focused on, all right, we're becoming

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Speaker 2: increasingly a passing league. So I narrowed my research down

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Speaker 2: on just passing downs and I used tackles and guards.

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Speaker 2: I left center play out of it, mostly because I

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Speaker 2: used computer vision. It's very hard at that point. It

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Speaker 2: was hard to code in the computer vision for the center.

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Speaker 2: So but I was okay with that. So we're my professors,

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Speaker 2: and then we you know, looked at body change, like

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Speaker 2: changing body types and how that it's just it's wild.

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Speaker 2: You know, an offensive lineman in college coming in when

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Speaker 2: they're done in a very top tier program that has

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Speaker 2: the right health and nutrition, the right all of the

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Speaker 2: different you know, the strength and conditioning coaches, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: That's going to be a different outcome than a guy

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Speaker 2: who didn't go to quite as formidable of a school

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Speaker 2: and is now going to a place like the Giants

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Speaker 2: where you're going to get all the things that you

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Speaker 2: need and then probably change during your rookie year quite

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Speaker 2: a bit. So it a little bit at this, So

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Speaker 2: you're right like it. It's kind of like my analogy

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Speaker 2: is this, my body type will never select for me

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Speaker 2: dunking a basketball. I am five foot six, like, I

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Speaker 2: do not have that kind of vertical disposition, so my

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Speaker 2: ability to jump like any of that. But when I

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Speaker 2: played volleyball, I was an outside hitter, so I had

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Speaker 2: to accommodate the fact that I was never going to

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Speaker 2: jump as high as the middle hitter by changing my

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Speaker 2: angle going different ways. I did work on my vertical

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Speaker 2: quite a bit, but I'm just I'm my My ceiling

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Speaker 2: would never going to be that high. So the difference

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Speaker 2: is is how do you optimize then for how how

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Speaker 2: do you kind of forecast where that ceiling is and

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Speaker 2: then give the people who are in charge of that

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Speaker 2: stuff the tools to say this is how we can

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Speaker 2: get Joe Alt's a really good one. The left tackle

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Speaker 2: that's now charger. He's very young, he was born in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and two, so he's going to be twenty

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Speaker 2: two this year, which means he could or could not

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Speaker 2: be done growing. Trent Williams is done growing right, Like,

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Speaker 2: these are things we know he could put it on

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Speaker 2: more muscle, et cetera, but we don't know. Maybe maybe

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Speaker 2: it's declining. You never know, right, So the interesting part

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Speaker 2: there is trying to find that ceiling and then optimizing

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Speaker 2: to get as close to it as possible.

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Speaker 3: All Right, you mentioned I was going to ask this later,

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Speaker 3: but since you mentioned it, you said you did most

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Speaker 3: of your testing for pass pro right. As you've gone

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Speaker 3: into this a little bit deeper, have you noticed any

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Speaker 3: correlation between guys that maybe wastepend in the business a

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Speaker 3: lot of time in the run game, the lunging trying

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Speaker 3: the run block becomes an issue. Does that eventually, you know,

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Speaker 3: give you a hint that will maybe against better pass

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Speaker 3: rushers that could be Kuba Palm and pass pro tep.

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Speaker 1: You found that as you've moved forward pass your dissertation

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Speaker 1: in your research Yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean obviously you know for master seats, as

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Speaker 2: you get like a year to write it, and so

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Speaker 2: I had to focus. I had to narrow it down

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Speaker 2: somewhere otherwise were the ocean, right. And then in subsequent years,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't graduate yesterday, we I have actually gone

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Speaker 2: back and followed up in the run game. And then

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Speaker 2: I also measured for centers as well, because my ability

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Speaker 2: to code using computer vision was better. But again, you know, again,

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Speaker 2: if we're only focusing on what came out of this

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Speaker 2: one specific thesis, that's where I I get you are

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Speaker 2: aund school. You had to narrow it down somewhere. So

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Speaker 2: but I have noticed that it's actually not dissimilar in

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Speaker 2: the run game, especially outside zone runs, which are runs

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Speaker 2: that sort of minic where a pass and the amount

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Speaker 2: of time that a pass could take place. So that

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Speaker 2: is actually a really keen observation because this year we

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Speaker 2: saw the pendulum sort of swing back where those a gaps,

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Speaker 2: so like the run between the center on either side

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Speaker 2: of the center, those were actually working a lot better

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Speaker 2: this year because a lot of people have focused their

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Speaker 2: deep defensive attack on outside zone runs, which we're all

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Speaker 2: the rage and now we're going back to like iso

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Speaker 2: duo like things your high school did when you played

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Speaker 2: high school football, right, So but it's it's a lot

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Speaker 2: of that has to do also, like you know, the

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Speaker 2: alignment are being asked to do different things again, so

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Speaker 2: it's it's very interesting and the more versatile you are,

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Speaker 2: the better that is going to work for you with

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Speaker 2: a compressed formation versus you know, the Bills play a

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Speaker 2: very spread formation and like the Niners play very compressed formation.

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Speaker 2: Obviously it works better to run power duo whatever you

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Speaker 2: want to call it in that compressed formation because you're

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Speaker 2: not asking the guard and tackle to do the same

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Speaker 2: things as you are in a spread formation like the Bills. Anyways,

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Speaker 2: that's a lot, but yeah, yeah, answer is yes, I

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Speaker 2: have expanded it past that. These bits got it.

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Speaker 3: So you mentioned computer vision, Explain how you measure waste

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Speaker 3: spending and you know, hand placement and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: and actually get numbers so it's not just eye tests

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Speaker 3: and you're actually getting data that you can use for

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Speaker 3: your measurements.

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Speaker 2: So it's hockey season right now. Most of your listeners

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Speaker 2: are probably Rangers fans, right you know, you know that

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Speaker 2: when you're watching and the billboards on the like the

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Speaker 2: rink changed to different commercials or even in the ice,

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Speaker 2: that's actually all computer vision that is, it's not there.

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Speaker 2: You know that right, like we all know this. My

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Speaker 2: friends get fascinated when I tell them. I'm like, when

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Speaker 2: you're in this in the actually when you're actually there,

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Speaker 2: like they say different things. It's totally different advertising. It's

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Speaker 2: nowhere near as clean because they all get beed up,

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Speaker 2: Like if that were a video monitor, that whole thing

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Speaker 2: would be ruined in like one check into the wall.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, and at baseball stadiums, you have the green

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Speaker 3: screen behind the catcher, so when you're there, it looks

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Speaker 3: like a green screen, but they project onto it when

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Speaker 3: you're watching.

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Speaker 2: The exactly, so that's all the same. It's in the

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Speaker 2: yellow line in football, so you know the first down marker,

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Speaker 2: which hilariously I have had friends be like, that is

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Speaker 2: not there in real life. I'm like no, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it would actually probably be helpful if they could figure

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Speaker 2: it out somehow, but no, it is not there. So

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Speaker 2: it's the same idea. You use an overlay of a

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Speaker 2: video framework to measure differences in colors. So the way

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Speaker 2: it kind of works is, you know, you can say

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Speaker 2: select for different points, so you take the all twenty two,

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Speaker 2: which is a fixed it's a fixed screen, so the

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Speaker 2: only things that's like when you're watching football. You're watching

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Speaker 2: several different cameras at once, but like the director will

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Speaker 2: be like, take this one, Take this one. You'll see

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Speaker 2: different angles, but in the all twenty two it's fixed,

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Speaker 2: so everything is the same. Well, you can tell the

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Speaker 2: computer vision to show me white lines versus green grass,

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Speaker 2: or you know, a blue uniform versus the green grass

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Speaker 2: versus the white line, and then you can select points

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Speaker 2: on it, say this is a hip, this is a knee,

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Speaker 2: And this is actually an application of AI because what

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Speaker 2: you're doing is you're taking lots and lots and lots

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Speaker 2: and lots of films so that the computer vision learns

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Speaker 2: this is a knee, this is an ankle, This is

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Speaker 2: a foot, this is a bum, this is a low back,

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Speaker 2: This is a hit like shoulder head like, so you

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Speaker 2: you you actually learn over time. I have to go

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Speaker 2: through and watch to make sure that it doesn't hallucinate

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Speaker 2: where it use AAI works. It doesn't, you know, think

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Speaker 2: a knee as a hand or whatever. But you can

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Speaker 2: get it pretty close. Now, will I say the absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Do I stand by the absolute number of each one? No?

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Speaker 2: I don't know the exact like, you know, is it fifty?

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Speaker 2: You know? Your Dorsey flection, which is your like you

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Speaker 2: bring your foot, your ankle back towards your your shin.

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Speaker 2: That's Dorsey flection. Like does your dorsey flection? Is it

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Speaker 2: fifteen point one seven to three degrees or is it

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Speaker 2: fourteen point seven eight? I don't like the exactly, but

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Speaker 2: I do know that relatively the second number is a

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Speaker 2: tighter angle than the first number, right, so it is

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Speaker 2: relatively correct. It is not like I don't stand by

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Speaker 2: the absolute number as like the Bible, right, because it's

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Speaker 2: it's on a pastwork of You know, the pixelation can

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Speaker 2: be different from ten years ago. We were watching different

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Speaker 2: pixelation than even now. So so yes, so you can

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Speaker 2: see you can see the trends, and you can see

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Speaker 2: the relative values really clearly, but the absolute values can

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Speaker 2: sometimes feel a lot.

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Speaker 1: And the all you want to do is going to

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Speaker 1: be a compare one player to another.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly? Yep, about right abouts right?

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Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Pay day comes early with citizens,

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Speaker 3: Official Bank of the Giants from game that everyday Citizens

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Speaker 3: All right, so when you did your measurements, what ended

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Speaker 3: up becoming most predictive for you? And how predictive really

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Speaker 3: was it when you kind of did all your measurements

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Speaker 3: and then you were able to see how players ended

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Speaker 3: up performing, which is great because you had this so

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Speaker 3: many years ago. Now you can actually see how these

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Speaker 3: guys ended up performing after you made your predictions.

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Speaker 2: Right, yep. So the two things if you like, if

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Speaker 2: you wanted to shortcut it, you just wanted to You're

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Speaker 2: like Cynthia, this is a redicketless number of things, Like,

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Speaker 2: what are two things I should look for? Just to

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Speaker 2: narrow it down. The two things you should look for

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Speaker 2: are number one, the first ten split of your forty,

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Speaker 2: so getting up out of the forty stance, which there's

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Speaker 2: a specific you can go watch it. I don't. It's

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Speaker 2: it's not the speed you're looking for. Who cares? It's

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Speaker 2: the stance to the first ten. Can you keep your

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Speaker 2: bum down? Can you keep your hips down low enough

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Speaker 2: and with and stay in range? With your knee and

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Speaker 2: your ankle. So if you were falling forward, it wouldn't

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't. That wouldn't be the right thing. If you

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Speaker 2: could trick my algorithm by uh walking like a duck

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Speaker 2: and not moving through it but going really slow, which

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Speaker 2: is not the intention of the forty. So you have

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Speaker 2: to keep the same intention, which is speed. So you're

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Speaker 2: burst and that first ten can you keep your bum

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Speaker 2: down within And the best guys, almost irrespective of height,

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Speaker 2: are about they don't come up more than one and

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Speaker 2: a half inches wild, and its wild accurate to where

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Speaker 2: they end up in the league because wait, wait, you.

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Speaker 3: From when the from their starting position on their all fours,

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Speaker 3: from when they get into their sprint position, their bombs

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Speaker 3: don't go out more than an inch and a half

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Speaker 3: when they.

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Speaker 2: Crossed the when they cross the line. So some people

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Speaker 2: start in a lower spot. But when you're when you

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Speaker 2: so when when your bum crosses the line, so your

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Speaker 2: hands up the line to start, So when your bum

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Speaker 2: crosses the line, some people have a lower like start whatever,

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Speaker 2: and some people have a higher start like. Your height

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Speaker 2: does have something to do with by the time it goes.

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Speaker 2: So pretend there's a wall at the starting line and

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Speaker 2: a wall at the tent one and a half inches.

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Speaker 2: Is those are what the elite guys do.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's interesting, okay, And like.

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Speaker 2: We're talking like like you can see it when you

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Speaker 2: zoomed in on the but you can see and then

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Speaker 2: that's how So I did what I did backwards to

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Speaker 2: make sure these coaches would agree with me, was I

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Speaker 2: had them rank in five distinct buckets elite, above average, average,

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Speaker 2: below average, well below average. So these are the you

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Speaker 2: have to have to do odd numbers. You can't do

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Speaker 2: even numbers. It's just the way like the math works.

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Speaker 2: And then this part here has to be of like

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Speaker 2: seventy five percent or whatever, eighty percent of your sample.

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Speaker 2: So you're only getting you're actually getting elite. Like people say,

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Speaker 2: they throw that word around a lot. There we're talking

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Speaker 2: about like no, no, like really like Taylor Luwan he

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Speaker 2: was he was probably the prototype of what you want

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Speaker 2: your like watch his sports, Like if you go on

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Speaker 2: you can go on NFL dot com and watch his

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Speaker 2: forty you can go. You can actually see there that

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Speaker 2: he's really special at doing that. He's he's the prototype

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Speaker 2: of it. So that's a good one reference point wise.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the first and what's the second shortcut?

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Speaker 2: The second shortcut is in your college film. So this

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Speaker 2: one's harder to watch for, but it you can kind

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Speaker 2: of get relative numbers. Your ability to move left and

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Speaker 2: right without lifting your bum up is in a in

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Speaker 2: a throw in a throwing situation, it actually translates well

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Speaker 2: to rushing down as well, but it's not as predictive

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Speaker 2: because there's some scheme involved in that, Like if you're

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Speaker 2: pulling a guard, you're just gonna have just a different

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Speaker 2: It throws things off a little bit. But in a

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Speaker 2: straight drop back what I don't care if it's five seven,

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Speaker 2: I don't care for me steps back, you're going your

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Speaker 2: ability to laterally move in a straight dropping passing down

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Speaker 2: when the defense knows that it's a pass.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is interesting, and I'm going to try to

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Speaker 3: boil this down to a simple point. And you can

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Speaker 3: yell at me if you think I'm wrong. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm teaching my seven year old. My six year old's

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Speaker 3: flight football, right, and you know these kids have no

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Speaker 3: idea what they're doing. So we say, in defense, get

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Speaker 3: in your athletic position. Well, what's your athletic position? It's

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Speaker 3: getting with your knees bent and you're bummed down. These

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Speaker 3: you can create you know, you can create balance. You

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Speaker 3: can move left the right, floard to back and keep

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Speaker 3: your balance. And it seems like, you know, the more

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Speaker 3: I've kind of done the scouting thing and not just

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Speaker 3: off in lit but everything, Cynthia, you want guys to

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Speaker 3: what I kind of term her natural athletes, and it's

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Speaker 3: kind of hard to you know, put numbers on those.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of times there's multi sport guys, right,

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Speaker 3: guys that play basketball, they know what again to a

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Speaker 3: defensive stick stands in basketball, move side to side, left

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Speaker 3: to right, and even there are some guys that and

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Speaker 3: you see this when they test well, they.

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Speaker 1: Just don't move fluidly and naturally.

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Speaker 3: So I feel like kind of what you're trying to

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Speaker 3: do here by getting these numbers is figuring out what

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Speaker 3: guys can move fluidly and naturally keep their balance. Even

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Speaker 3: if the numbers aren't great, if they're doing it within

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Speaker 3: their own athleticism, that will lead to better results because

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Speaker 3: you can deal with another person to lead athleticism. If

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Speaker 3: you can really control your own body in a really

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Speaker 3: powerful way.

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Speaker 1: Is that fair?

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Speaker 2: Very fair? And The other thing is is it captures

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Speaker 2: your ability to lift your hands up and start pushing.

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Speaker 2: So the ideal situation if you want, if you want

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Speaker 2: to stop a defender your best if you're facing towards

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00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 2: them with your arms up right, think about it. That's

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Speaker 2: your athletic stance. But going forward, the kinetic energy goes

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Speaker 2: this way right, so it's coming at the defender. If

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Speaker 2: you are already on your heels, or if you are

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Speaker 2: to the right and they are to the left, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: you can get smoked right. Your quarterback can get smoked

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Speaker 2: pretty easily. So getting into that spot is actually another

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Speaker 2: form of being an athlete, meaning you know, being able

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Speaker 2: to see the angle and adjust. That's why sometimes those

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Speaker 2: swim moves, like we talked about bull rushers versus like

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Speaker 2: what kind of pass rusher are you? Right, Like like,

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Speaker 2: if I'm coming, if Miles Garrett just destroys souls, he

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Speaker 2: doesn't even need to do a swim swim move, right.

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Speaker 2: Aaron Donald had that nasty swim move. That was that

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Speaker 2: was he was just a better athlete than many guards

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Speaker 2: that he was going up. That just was they were

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Speaker 2: actually in a good favorable position, Their hips were actually

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Speaker 2: pretty much aligned with his. The more my hips line

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Speaker 2: up with your hips and my hands are out, the

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00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 2: better my chances are for me that that works with

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Speaker 2: your eye test, but the math bears that out as well.

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Speaker 2: So if you can get your hands up and into

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Speaker 2: that athletic stance laterally, that also predicts for not being

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Speaker 2: a wastepender, right, And.

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Speaker 3: I gotta imagine, right, this is just being able to

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Speaker 3: be prepared for whatever moves the defensive player throws at you. Right,

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Speaker 3: So if they bowl Russia, you can't get pushed back

427
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Speaker 3: because your balance, you're not back on your heels, and

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Speaker 3: then you're gonna get put on your rear end.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: But then again, if you know you thinking in a

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Speaker 3: bowl rusher, you lean forward. They do like the you

432
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Speaker 3: know von Miller's ghost move, the swim your lungeon forward,

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Speaker 3: they get around you. So it's just a matter of

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Speaker 3: you're trying to measure how these guys are able to

435
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 3: keep their center of gravity no matter how they're trying

436
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 3: to move left or right, front or back.

437
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: But if I'm even if I'm if I'm spin moving,

438
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 2: swim moving, it actually does take extra time. So while

439
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 2: it might be an effective move that actually i'd if

440
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,719
Speaker 2: I'm a if I'm a left tackle, very important tackle.

441
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 2: Oh by the way, right tackle wise, Penna Suel, that

442
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: guy is pretty much the prototype too. Like I feel

443
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 2: like I never say anything nice about the Lions, but

444
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 2: you know, like that guy is a pretty much a

445
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: prototype as well. So you know I'm from Michigan, I'm

446
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: allowed so but like long story short, like you know

447
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 2: you're pinnay stool and a guy's coming at you. If

448
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 2: you have just beIN moved to get out of my grip,

449
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: that's okay because that means Jared Goff then had about

450
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: an extra second to deal with whatever's coming. And those

451
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 2: seconds are huge, as we know, so makes a big difference.

452
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 3: No, absolutely, And I'll get to something else that Shoona

453
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 3: Horre always talked to me about and you talked about

454
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 3: syncing up your hips at your hands, right. You know,

455
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 3: he always talks about being a boxer and not a gunslinger.

456
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: Right. He hates the guys that had their hands down

457
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: at the waist.

458
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: They kind of bring them up because you're not then

459
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 3: punching and you lose you exactly, And a lot of

460
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 3: times the guys will to do too when they bring

461
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,960
Speaker 3: him down low, they'll bring them around them, they'll hug right,

462
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: they won't bring up, and they won't punch. They'll come around,

463
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: they'll go outside and they're hug So that does to

464
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 3: you when you've done your measurements. Your ability to get

465
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 3: your hands in the right place also has to do

466
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 3: with your ability to bend at the knees and and

467
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 3: not bend at the waiste. So those things you're interconnected

468
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 3: in terms of body mechanics.

469
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: It's almost impossible to take the hands and the hips

470
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 2: out of the equation. So like cause if my hands

471
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,199
Speaker 2: are down like fatigue is something I've recently added. So

472
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 2: the ability what do you do in the fourth quarter

473
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 2: versus what do you do in the first quarter? Ideally

474
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 2: in the first quarter you are not fatigued. In the

475
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: fourth quarter you're morphitty. Are you more or less like? What? What?

476
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 2: What happens? Are you trending at the same place as

477
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 2: you're a defender or are you like because if you

478
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,679
Speaker 2: can see if a team's really tired, like you know,

479
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: it happens, so your hands don't get up as fast etceever,

480
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 2: so it's almost impossible to get your hands and your

481
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,560
Speaker 2: hips not sink like it's very hard to be like, well,

482
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: he got his hips up, but if your hands are

483
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 2: still down, it stinks. If your hands are up and

484
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: your hips are too high, also a fail. So it's

485
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: very hard to have those two. But so that's why

486
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 2: i added in fatigue later because that was an area

487
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: where like, if you know, you see a lot of

488
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: guys with their hands on their hips on you know,

489
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 2: coaches hate that, like hate it, and there's it's not

490
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 2: just because they're like in a posture that's bad body language.

491
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,239
Speaker 2: It's also because you're actually like, if your hips are

492
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: down here and you're leading like this, you're not ready

493
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: right like and maybe that maybe that's a signal to

494
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 2: a defender that you're not gonna get like to be

495
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: able to get in your stands or out of your

496
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 2: stands as soon as the ball snaps. So that that

497
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 2: is that is an interesting that it's just an interesting

498
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: especially if you somehow have your hands on your hips,

499
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: like right before the play starts. This is more tight

500
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: ends have more of this, but like you're like, oh

501
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,520
Speaker 2: my god, like this isn't good. This isn't good at all.

502
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 3: So interesting and you know what and what I've seen

503
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 3: and what coaches always tell me too, is that what

504
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 3: they hate seeing is guys on the ground, right, And

505
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: I imagine this is directly really right. The guys that

506
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 3: are on the ground are a lot. Are the ones

507
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 3: that in the bending and the waste a lot. You're

508
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: leaning forward and you fall, right.

509
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 2: You're leaning forward and you fall, or you are getting pushed,

510
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 2: and then you try to go low because we have

511
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: this idea low man wins, right, and it's not wrong.

512
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 2: Although low man doesn't win if one of your knees

513
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 2: is on the ground. So low man wins. But like

514
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 2: it's kind of like the opposite of the limbo, right,

515
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 2: Like you know you're not allowed to touch the floor.

516
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: Of course you could crawl under it, right, It's like

517
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: you got to be low man wins, but you can't

518
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: be in the dirt. That's also how you hurt yourself.

519
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: Like if you're always in the ground, get you get

520
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 2: hurt more often. It's sky. It's a little like I

521
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,479
Speaker 2: watch it now and I'm like, oh, no, get up

522
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 2: your ACL. You need that ACL.

523
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, trust me.

524
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 3: Being here with Tom Coffin for ten years does him

525
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 3: Yelling off the ground during practice was probably the most

526
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 3: common thing he yelled at people during training camp and

527
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,480
Speaker 3: O THH prices keep guys healthy. How is this correlate

528
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 3: to side you talk about ideal size for an offensive tackle, right?

529
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: Do you taller guys have trouble doing this stuff versus

530
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 3: shorter guys? Is there an ideal thing you're looking for

531
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 3: or is it just a matter of how good of

532
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: an athlete guy is?

533
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: It depends on what you're asked to do. So a

534
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: good example. Obviously, you know Giants fans are they know

535
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 2: more about the Bills, right, So if you look to

536
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 2: see the way the Bills are constructed, the Bills are

537
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 2: interesting because Dion and their right tackle Spencer Brown. Spencer

538
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: Brown's like six ' eight, He's a huge man. He

539
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: starts in a very high stance. But they're also spreading

540
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: them way out because Josh Allen wants to run, so

541
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 2: they're at they're kind of they're adapting what's being asked

542
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 2: of them. So they and they figured out their interior

543
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 2: offensive line a lot better, you know, this past season.

544
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: That's what works for them. It really just has to match,

545
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: so you can obviously, we'd all like to build our

546
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 2: offensive lines with five of the or seven, you know,

547
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: to that could rotate of the most nastiest men on

548
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: the planet, but there just aren't that many, right, Like you,

549
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 2: it's really hard to have an elite five person O line, right,

550
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 2: So the reality is is you have to sacrifice somewhere.

551
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 2: So big is bigger, isn't always better because Spencer can

552
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: get can get crushed. He has had back issues, you've

553
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 2: seen it. Dion's a little bit more reliable. From that.

554
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 2: Dion is one of the best I would say, like

555
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: relative to his quarterback, meaning for what his quarterback needs.

556
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: Dion Dawkins is one of the best left tackles that

557
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 2: we don't talk about it as being like truly high

558
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: up there in terms of his production, but he does

559
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: exactly what his quarterback needs. Right. It might not work

560
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: if you threw him on the Lions because Jared Goff

561
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: is a much different quarterback than Josh Allen. So it's

562
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: it's a little bit tailored to what you are trying

563
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: to do. But for the most part, you want to

564
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: be in a threshold. You know, you want to be, uh,

565
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: there's a range that's about right, and you want to

566
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: be in the range or not so dramatically outside the

567
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: range that whatever the strategy is you are not well

568
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: suited for so is.

569
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: There such things as being too tall in terms of

570
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: like losing a lot of your leverage?

571
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean often and the taller, the very very

572
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: tall players on the O line, you'll see back issues.

573
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: You'll see it's harder to get the low man wins

574
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: leverage right like they're often not constructed with you know,

575
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 2: you kind of want a thicker bump and sometimes taller

576
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 2: tackle like Spencer Brown has is not as like thickly

577
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: based yeah as some other right tackles, right, So, and

578
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 2: that can change your ability to get upended by a

579
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: defensive end or your ability to latterally. But again, six '

580
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: eight is very very big.

581
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,840
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582
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583
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584
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585
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586
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587
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588
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591
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: Is there a difference for guards and tackles.

592
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 3: Cynthia, should guards be a little bit more I don't know,

593
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: refrigerator body types where they're a little bit stout or

594
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 3: a little bit more compact as opposed to tackles.

595
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: They the guard can have less of a stature, meaning

596
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: they don't need to be as tall. It's better for

597
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 2: I mean, ideally your tackles will be taller than your guards. Okay,

598
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: but like you know, they need to be better at

599
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: handling multiple pressures coming from multiple directions, especially down after down,

600
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: you know your right tackle, your left tackle is gonna

601
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: have similarly like not as many people coming at them

602
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: in different directions. Remember they get hit from not just

603
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: straight but like left and right, and see your tackle,

604
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: they could they push you to the outside. You know,

605
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: you try to push a guy to the outside, so

606
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: you favor one side. Whereas a guard, you actually need

607
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: to hold pretty stout. You have to have more of

608
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: those quick bursts muscle fibers that allow you to hold

609
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 2: to the right and then the left and then the

610
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: right like that, like that a little bit longer than

611
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: where's a tackle. It's the same person that you hold

612
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,959
Speaker 2: as you So the twitch is more about it not

613
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 2: the like the quick versus slow twitch muscle fibers, is

614
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: a little more about it than the specific you know,

615
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: is your size more like a refrigerator. Just tends that

616
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: those two things tend to go together.

617
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,479
Speaker 3: That makes sense, and you, I guess you already kind

618
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: of answered this with your ten yards split in your

619
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: lateral movement questions. Maybe the answer is both. Yeah, But

620
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 3: when you're looking at some of these combined results. You

621
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 3: talked about the ten yards split in the forty In

622
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: terms of the bumbas, I'm sure the time matters a

623
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: little bit too.

624
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: In some respect.

625
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: You have the jumps, which measured explosive, then you have

626
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 3: the shuttles and the lateral stuff. Is it different based

627
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 3: on where you are, the system that you're in, Which

628
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: are the most important numbers for you in terms of

629
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: measuring those types of athletic numbers?

630
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: In terms of offensive linemen.

631
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: The thing that my data found was that the three

632
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: cone shuttle the things that we like to look at,

633
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: they help clarify what you're seeing. They're not wildly predictive

634
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: unless you're out of range. Okay, so if you're if

635
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: you're very far out of range, something's wrong or your

636
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 2: film in college was not using your it's I don't.

637
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: I don't think if I've ever seen someone have like

638
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: just like it's not like the forty where you can

639
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 2: see someone just be a burner and then they're not.

640
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: They don't look as fast on the field. It's kind

641
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: of like, you know, it helps clarify, especially if you're

642
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: playing against a lower level of competition, right, if you're

643
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: not at this power five school or whatever. We're gonna

644
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: call these schools now with conference realignment, so whatever it is,

645
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: if you're not at the good schools playing the good defenders,

646
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: don't I don't even know what to say anymore like this,

647
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: I would never be sidebar. I would never handle being

648
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: a college coach because re recruiting your players with this

649
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 2: transporportal seems like the worst, Like who wants to do that?

650
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 2: It's the worst. Anyways, So that being said, unless your

651
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: film shows like if you're playing in like a MAX

652
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: school and you want to see does this check out

653
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: like a good approximate, that could make you feel better,

654
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 2: But it's not super it's not super predict unfortunately, not

655
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: the number right, Like you can you can see some

656
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: of the mechanics, especially coming back from an injury. The

657
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: mechanics are something you could watch to see like do

658
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: you have good flection, do your you know, can you move?

659
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 2: But the actual speed of it is netgligurable.

660
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: Should we care about jumps?

661
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 2: I think you should care about jumps. I think more

662
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: for guards than for tackles, mostly because, uh, what would

663
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: be a better version? And like I spent a lot

664
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: of time talking to my professors about this, and then

665
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: the medical people who I consulted, like if they could

666
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: jump like ten times in a row, and we could

667
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 2: see what the tenth jump is, that would be actually

668
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: more predictive. Then it would be just a single jump.

669
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: And is that be making kind of firing out of

670
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 3: your stands into the defensive tackle. That's kind of the

671
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 3: brain front of you. That's what that is, right.

672
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: That's why I want to know your tenth one because

673
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 2: I don't, like, I have to assume your background is

674
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: you know, you're going to the combine and you're going

675
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: to specifically train for this one specific moment. You would

676
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 2: hope that, Like I said, you have to assume. So

677
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: if I'm assuming I'm going for one big old jump,

678
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm going to a couple of times. But you know,

679
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: if I'm doing that, like I would hope, especially these

680
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 2: guys who have like hoops backgrounds or like even wrestling backgrounds,

681
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: that I could like think they could be differently put

682
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: together or under like if you were if you were

683
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: like a basketball player, you should know how to jump

684
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: a little bit, right, like who knows? So again assumptions,

685
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: but you know, I do assume that they're training for

686
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: this one jump, but it would be great if they

687
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: could do ten, like if I were doing if I

688
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: were constructing my ideal offensive Lineman workout, I would want

689
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 2: to do ten vertical jumps in a row, and I

690
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: want to see their tenth one that would be my

691
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, and like how it declines or or what happens.

692
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: There two other measurements people talk about a lot poor

693
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: Olu fashion and people were like obsessing with his hand

694
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 3: size this year and like his little girl hands, he

695
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: can't hold onto anybody. I'm like, guys, relax if he

696
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: came down and armline. There's another thing that people make

697
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: a big deal about with offensive Lineman. How predictive, if

698
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: at all, are those two aspects of offensive London.

699
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: Gonna I'm gonna make some people mad here but we

700
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: found no correlation in hand size, absolutely none. Now there

701
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: is something to be said. I will say, like the

702
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 2: medical people who I talked to were saying, now, if

703
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: you have like if over time my hand starts to

704
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: get more like you know, my poor dad, I'm about

705
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: to throw him under the bus. But my dad's not

706
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: the youngest man ever, and he plays a lot of

707
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 2: golf and he kind of gets a little stuck because

708
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: he plays the same like his muscles get stuck in

709
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 2: the golf position, so he can't he can't stretch his

710
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: hands as big. That actually could be an early indicator

711
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: for something like carpal tunnel or another problem that's coming.

712
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: But that's very very second level. That's unnecessary. But point

713
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: being is you gotta like you actually have to be

714
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 2: smart for offensive linemen to uh to uh stretch their

715
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: hands more stupid, but it would be smart for them

716
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: to do that. So that could be an indicator of

717
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 2: a problem in the future. But that's not something I

718
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 2: don't know. This again two second or third level that

719
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: we don't need to get into. Arm size does have

720
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 2: an impact mostly in if they're out of range, but

721
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: the range is not quite as like some people are

722
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 2: like long arms, that's great. The longer the better. You

723
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: can never get any longer. It's diminishing returns outside of

724
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: a range. So you know, as long as they're not

725
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: too and it's relative to your height and obviously, but

726
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 2: it's like, as long as they're not too short. You

727
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: don't get a ton of extra benefits from a guy

728
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: with like really long arms unless they're unless you're like

729
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: really good at using them. So you do get it.

730
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 2: You do kind of get punished if you have two

731
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 2: shorter of arms, but you don't get It's not like

732
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: lin ye with the better, the longer the arms, the

733
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: bigger the return. That's not how it works.

734
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: What would be your threshold for offensive tackles where if

735
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: you're advising a team and they said, well, we shouldn't

736
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: draft an offensive tackle with an arm length lower than what,

737
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 3: what number would you give them?

738
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: Well, relative to their height, it should be like at

739
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: least a little bigger than their height. So if I'm

740
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: you know, I'm sixty six inches long, I should be like,

741
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's actually we put together, like there's

742
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: a framework. I can't remember exactly the number, it's like

743
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: one at least needs to and remember, for me, if

744
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 2: to be a good tackle, which obviously I'll be a

745
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: terrible tackle. But if you if we were to say that,

746
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing, it's like my arms

747
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: would essentially have to be five eight so like another

748
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: inch on top. But it will. It does get bigger

749
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 2: as the people get bigger, so.

750
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 3: You will look more at wingspan than arm length when

751
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: you do the measures in the comparisons.

752
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 2: Yep, because your chest muscles have a lot to do

753
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 2: with how you use your arms, so right, like your

754
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: shoulders and your chest. So if you can get a

755
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: good wings this whole the anom anatomy that it was

756
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 2: a good thing. I actually, you know, I often say

757
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 2: I didn't use my biology degree from BC very much.

758
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 2: I mean I loved BC, but like you know, I didn't.

759
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm like biology, like whatever, but I've used it in.

760
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: That a lot.

761
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 3: I had no idea you had a biology grease you did.

762
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 3: You did the science and math thing, like what's next.

763
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: I'm like the most random person on the planet, you know,

764
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: Like I I don't know what I'm doing, but yes,

765
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: I'm still paying for all of it. We're good about that.

766
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: But all right, we got two final kind of random

767
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: things and one specific giant thing CYNTHI, and then we'll

768
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: wrap up.

769
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 1: I really I really appreciate all the time.

770
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 2: This is awesome. I love talking about this stuff.

771
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is this that. This is a ton of

772
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 3: fun here. So we just talked about offensive linemen. Right,

773
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: what's the most efficient pass rush move? Because I'm sure

774
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 3: when you saw the offensive lineman you kind of look

775
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 3: at pass rushers too, right, you talk about the spin

776
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 3: move takes a little bit longer.

777
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: Yep.

778
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: Is it just a straight up bowl? You know that

779
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: that's the straight line? Is it the quick inside move?

780
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: What's the most efficient way for the defensive player to

781
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: get to.

782
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 2: The quarterback having the most predictive number for defense the

783
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 2: player in terms of causing an actual pressure. So I

784
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: define a pressure. So most quarterbacks, let's just be very

785
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: uh like top top line around six feet tall, call

786
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: it plus or minus. So their wingspan six feet right

787
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 2: around a little bit more. So I drew I drew

788
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: a six foot diameter circle around the quarterback. And you

789
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 2: have one hundred and thirty five degree vision in your

790
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: helmet mostly and so if I can see it, then

791
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 2: it's a pressure. If my uh, if that includes my

792
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: tackle being pushed into me, but by the defender, et cetera.

793
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: The most predictive metric in terms of causing a pressure,

794
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: be it through your own body or by pushing an

795
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 2: offensive lineman into your quarterback, is your ability for a

796
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: second push. So Cam Cam Jordan actually is really good

797
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: at this, especially a couple of years ago he really

798
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: embodied there's a ton of giants that are as well

799
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: as stray hands. Actually got to this a shove weight

800
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 2: in that they cut and then you shove them again,

801
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 2: and that is your ability to that set can push.

802
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 2: That's when the alignment lose their leverage. So it actually

803
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what angle it's coming from. Ideally it would

804
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: be not a bul rush is not the most effective

805
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: at least that's what we found way to do it

806
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: unless you're Aaron Donald against it, against it, and you're

807
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: if you're unblocked, it's a different story, right, But like

808
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: you when you're blocked, like, let's let's call it that.

809
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 2: So you know that's that's if you are a blocked defender.

810
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: If you're unblocked, you're gonna win them. Like that's just

811
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: it doesn't count. So like you'd be stupid not to

812
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: take a straight line somewhere.

813
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: If that's the recoil, I guess that makes sense then, right,

814
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 3: because at first contact, everyone's gonna be able to make

815
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: that initial stop.

816
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: Right.

817
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: It's how you then put that offensive lineman off balance,

818
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 3: off that first content. You said a second push, right,

819
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,839
Speaker 3: it could also be a pull, right, the you'll push

820
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 3: pull move you push.

821
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 2: Second movie, Yeah, I say I should have. You're right,

822
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: that's actually a really good distinction. It doesn't need to

823
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 2: be a push. It could be a pull. It could

824
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: be a shove.

825
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: It could be swim even right.

826
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: Anything, But it's the second like it's you know, you've

827
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: got my first Nope, that ain't it? Boom, second one

828
00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: that whatever it is.

829
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: And that's why I guess that first.

830
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 3: The explosiveness in that first move for a pass ors

831
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: is really important, right, because that's what kind of puts

832
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: the offense alongment off kilter, that sets up that second move,

833
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: which is what actually gets.

834
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: You home exactly. The explosiveness is the number. Like if

835
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: I'm looking at what are what are the This is

836
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: an interesting defensive draft because obviously first fifteen players were

837
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: offensive picks. But it's like, well, how good of a

838
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: value did the rams get in Jared verse, like what

839
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 2: are they getting? Like where does he rank in terms

840
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: of bursts and explosivity, et cetera. And it's funny because

841
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 2: like he kind of like is around what do they

842
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: picked nineteen? Like that's kind of where compared to pass drafts.

843
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 2: Like so they like not to say they didn't get

844
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 2: a great value, but like to say that this was

845
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 2: kind of a more It was an interesting, right, like

846
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 2: offensive minded draft in general, Like the return was was

847
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: great for that. So Brian Burns actually has a very

848
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: good second second effort on So Giants fans will like that.

849
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And I imagine then Dane Jomiah talks a

850
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: lot about out and he goes back and he had

851
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 3: the next gen stas guy's pull this data. And I

852
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 3: think the Eagles players are always at the top of

853
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: this list. By the way, no surprise if at the

854
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 3: best passers in league last five or six years. It's

855
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 3: get off and it's how quickly you can get on

856
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: top of that offensive tackle for an edge guy or

857
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 3: a tackle.

858
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: I imagine that's probably pretty important.

859
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: Too, right, massively important. It's like I said, it might

860
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: be the number one thing, like if you were to

861
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,919
Speaker 2: close your eyes and think about See that's that's also

862
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 2: the difference to between Like you think about like these

863
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: top end guys, that's great, but you got to think

864
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: about who is better than average at that, Like you're

865
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 2: the teams that tend to be better, they have guys

866
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 2: they do a better job of finding like like the

867
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: above average guys at doing something like that. Like if

868
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: you were to just like like I said, if you

869
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: were to shorthand, like I got to make a team

870
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: in fifteen minutes, like, well, give me this, this is

871
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 2: what I would pull, not for my you already know

872
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 2: who the best passwords like sure, I'll take Miles gear,

873
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 2: twist my rubber arm, give me Miles Garrett, you know.

874
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: Like but but it's like you know you already know that,

875
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 2: But it's I'm talking about the guys who like they

876
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 2: stand next to someone who looks like that and you're like,

877
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: oh crap, Like he's standing next him out here, he's

878
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 2: pretty good too, something like that. Right, Like so that's

879
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: where you have to look that you're you're I call

880
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: it bursts. So your first three yards traveled with computer vision,

881
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: It doesn't need to be straight. What happens in those

882
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: three yards now it could be holding on to an

883
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: offensive player and pushing them. That's it's that one took

884
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 2: me a lot longer to calculate. But your basically win

885
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: rate at the line of scrimmage or when you because

886
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: some people don't start up with the line of scrimmage, but

887
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: when you when you are initially moving towards your offensive players.

888
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: Interesting, all right, a couple of giants specific things. Evin Neil.

889
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: He's a guy that they're trying to figure out here

890
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: right right tackle.

891
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: Maybe wove them in the guard at some point, but

892
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: they try to right tackle here in the spring again,

893
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 3: new offensive line coach. You know the thing about Neil

894
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: when he came out, you know those all these workout

895
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 3: videos and stuff on Twitter room doing the box jump

896
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: and the splits and all that stuff, but he never actually.

897
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: Right but he never he never has to do splits

898
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: on the football field.

899
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

900
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: But he never actually tested number wise at the combine

901
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 3: or a pro day coming out in college, so we

902
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 3: never actually put numbers to what we thought was great athleticism.

903
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 3: Now he's coming here, he said two straight years where

904
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 3: he's had leg injuries, right, so that's going to affect

905
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: his knees, all sorts of stuff. He had ankle surgery

906
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 3: this past year. That's going to affect how you move.

907
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 3: What did you see with Evan Neil coming out when

908
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 3: you did your analysis of him? And what should Giant

909
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 3: fans think of him going forward? Given he was only

910
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 3: played twenty one games in two years, which is barely

911
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 3: more than one season. He's had all these injuries, how

912
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 3: should Giant fans think about Evveneel right now heading into

913
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: year number three?

914
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 2: His the threshold for him, like the like he's a dunker,

915
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 2: if you know what I mean, Like you know, back

916
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: to our other analogy. His the denominator for him, the

917
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: capacity that he could operate at. I thought, coming out

918
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: very very very like I really loved Evaniel like my stuff,

919
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: really liked him a lot. His forty time was right

920
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: where it needed to be for or whenever you whenever

921
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: you measured it. Obviously not the combine, but yeah, yeah, yeah,

922
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: So all of his numbers were like right where they

923
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: needed to be, and he looked very good in a

924
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: lot of different obviously played great level of competition, you know,

925
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: and I'm confused what to expect now because.

926
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: Join the club, by the way, Yeah, well.

927
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: If we could measure if we could measure his that

928
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: I would look mostly at his like if you wanted

929
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: to look at it through like with your eyes, his

930
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: low back could be what you look at, you know,

931
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: like if he has that good flection that often means

932
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: his hamstrings in a good spot and his cap like

933
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 2: usually you can get you know, the good flection. That's

934
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: like you know they like you buy that thing where

935
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: it was like really sit like with your low back,

936
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: like the like the lumbar support, Like if you look

937
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 2: like you have a lumbar support on your back, like

938
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 2: that's how you might look, you know when you're watching

939
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: him on the field. It's almost in possible to do

940
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 2: without game speed, but you want to have that.

941
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 3: Curve of your back kind of like going like that right,

942
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 3: so your BT's kind of out and your back curves backing.

943
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 2: Up yep, backing up yep. So like one of my professors,

944
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 2: who's a little bit more colorful, was like, you know,

945
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 2: like a pin up model, and I'm like, it's actually

946
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: a it actually does get you to where you need

947
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: to go mentally, but it's I don't want, I don't

948
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 2: need that calendar, you know, like Evanuell. You know, I

949
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: don't need that calendar, but but you know it actually

950
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 2: that's whatever it does help.

951
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: So and frankly, I'm not even sure the young kids

952
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 3: know what pinup calendars are anymore.

953
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: Cynthia, I don't think those are things anymore.

954
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Well, we've just inspired a bunch of weird Google searches today,

955
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 2: so cheers to us. Good luck kids.

956
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: You came from math and you left the pin up models.

957
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: How about that?

958
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 3: So, in short, you don't think there's anything structurally wrong

959
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 3: with even the that physically is holding him back, that

960
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 3: should keep him from being able to figure out how

961
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,280
Speaker 3: to play right tackle basically.

962
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: Again, I'm not a doctor. I don't know, but there

963
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: but if I'm saying based on what I saw his

964
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: capacity was coming out of college, I think his capacity

965
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: was very very high, maybe even even if it's a

966
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: little diminished by past injuries, like I would look to

967
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 2: see like his potential success this year. That's what I

968
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 2: would be watching for in OTAs right now, is what

969
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 2: does his low back look like? Because without being able

970
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: to measure his ankle or knee in a sort of

971
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: game time situation, low backs can be one of those

972
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 2: things where you see flexible in your low back. That

973
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 2: does it talks about your hip flex or talks about

974
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 2: your hamstring, He talks about you quad, It talks about

975
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: even down to your calf in many cases, So that

976
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: could be one I might look for again if he's hurt,

977
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, but there's in terms

978
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: of capability, he's got it. Like I still I'm still in.

979
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: I'm still in.

980
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 3: And just to speak on it. In the last year,

981
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 3: Andrew Thomas had that hand hamstring injury. You know, the

982
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 3: way you've talked about the importance of hamstring and the

983
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 3: body working together, that can really hurt an offensive lineman,

984
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 3: right If one of those things in that kind of

985
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 3: trunk of your body is messed up, that's going to

986
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 3: throw everything off kilter.

987
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: I guess, huh.

988
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 2: It's a really hard stance to stand to play in

989
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: like offensive linemen. That's a I mean Sean now, like

990
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: you see, like Sean's a really good example of it.

991
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 2: I mean, Sean has lost a ton of weight and

992
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 2: he's also in really good, like shit physical shape, right

993
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: Like I feel like right now he could probably like

994
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: play basketball for like an entire afternoon and kick a

995
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 2: lot of people's bums who might he might not have

996
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 2: been able to do that with when he had on

997
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: more weight because he needed to protect Eli Manning. Right, So,

998
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 2: like you know, now it's just it's a different use

999
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 2: case that it's a very hard set of Like the

1000
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: guys who do a lot of yoga tend to be

1001
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: in good shape. Now again what kind of yoga. This

1002
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: is a different thing, but like you know, being able

1003
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: to get their hamstrings, their their calves, their hip flexers,

1004
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: their groins, their ads, like all of it, right, Like

1005
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: that is a it's a hard stance to play out.

1006
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Of absolutely all.

1007
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 3: Right, final question I did I asked you prepare for this,

1008
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 3: So if you don't have no idea what the answer is,

1009
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: just say it and it's fine. I saw a report

1010
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago that the NFL in the

1011
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 3: preseason was going to test the uh not using chains

1012
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 3: and using the electronic placement of the ball for us

1013
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: people that are not you know, Boston College and Northwestern graduates.

1014
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me how that's going to work.

1015
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I like, I do know

1016
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: what they mean, what the intentionality is is? I mean,

1017
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,760
Speaker 2: there's already chips right now in everyone of the RFID

1018
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: chips are in everyone's shoulders. That's how we get the

1019
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: next gen stats. Like it's a you know, basically the

1020
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 2: way that the technology works is it it's like your

1021
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: GPS tracker, right like it tells you where people are

1022
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: relative to each other. It would be very easy then

1023
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 2: to use that same technology in the all of the

1024
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: equipment that is involved in the game. It wouldn't change

1025
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: the weight of the ball, like, nothing would be changed,

1026
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: it would be more accurate. I do think it's you know,

1027
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: testing it out in preseason and off like before is

1028
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 2: a there's there's gonna be problems. I mean, maybe it

1029
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 2: doesn't capture each snap maybe whatever. You know, how does

1030
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: it How does it work when the ball gets crushed

1031
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: too much or what? You know what I mean, Like

1032
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: you're using different balls, remember, because we don't use with

1033
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: one ball in a game. We use many balls in

1034
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: a game. So you know, it's it's a very interesting

1035
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 2: use case. But I do actually like it because I

1036
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: think that the less opportunity for human error. Now you remember,

1037
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a Lions fan, so like there's some

1038
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 2: cowboys hate that I'm exacting we're going to exact revenge,

1039
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: you know, on the Cowboys, which I know that Giants

1040
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 2: fans also will like. But right, like it like that

1041
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,399
Speaker 2: whole like you know, did someone whatever, but like does

1042
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 2: something cross the plane? Like when did it? When did

1043
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 2: it happen? To? Like, there's a lot of human error

1044
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 2: involved in football, and if we could get something as

1045
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: simple as where the ball is on the field right

1046
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 2: with technology, that would free up the all of the

1047
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: refs to be able to focus on harder questions as well.

1048
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because look, I know they're having trouble with the

1049
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 3: automated strike zone in the minor leagues in baseball, Like

1050
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 3: it has been perfect, right, That's why they haven't put

1051
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 3: it in there yet. And I guess the only question

1052
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 3: I'd have, and maybe you don't have the answer to this,

1053
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 3: or or you do, how would they be able to

1054
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 3: figure out where the ball is when the player's knee

1055
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 3: hit So it's obviously easy to know where the ball

1056
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: is on the field, right, But how do they then

1057
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: sync that up with where the ball is when the

1058
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 3: knee or the elbow or the calf or whatever it

1059
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 3: is hits the ground and the play's dead. So how

1060
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 3: would that get pined up where it sinks, and you

1061
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: know exactly where to put the ball.

1062
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 2: I think the idea would be, and I asked a

1063
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: very similar question. I think the idea then is that

1064
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 2: they would use the video feed, and the time sinc

1065
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: would go with the video feed. So you're saying that,

1066
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 2: you know, let's pretend it's a one o'clock game right

1067
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 2: at like one oh six and forty three seconds and whatever,

1068
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 2: the hundreds of a second, it's this and this is

1069
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: where his knee hits. Where's the ball?

1070
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 3: So that's something somebody upstairs would then have to communicate

1071
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 3: to the on the field to spot it.

1072
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,919
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. But I but I think that I still

1073
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: think that's better.

1074
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 3: Like I agree that I have no problem with that.

1075
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 3: I'm just having to fail what the mechanics would make.

1076
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the mechanics would be something like a

1077
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: time stamp that matches the you know, because the foot

1078
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 2: I still don't know. I don't believe the RFIDs would

1079
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 2: have enough of the the chip would have enough granularity

1080
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: to know that it was on the ground. And I

1081
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 2: also think it would be stupid to spend the money

1082
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: to create a chip that would know it's on the

1083
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 2: ground right, like this huge waste of money. But I

1084
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 2: do know that the time sinking is already there because

1085
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 2: we timesink things for the next gen staff. So all

1086
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 2: you're really doing now is putting the same next gense.

1087
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: We have it in the ball already, like we already

1088
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 2: know where the ball is. It's just being able to

1089
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: use it game speed without taking away some of the

1090
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 2: things we love about football, which is, you know, if

1091
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 2: you're in the middle of using tempo and they're going

1092
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: to look at it for two inches and it's not

1093
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 2: even close to being a first down, like who cares? Right?

1094
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 2: Like that, that's where you screw up the tempo and

1095
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 2: mess things up. But I think I believe it's probably

1096
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: do way better and way more good than bad.

1097
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.

1098
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: If it works, I think it'll be great. Cynthia, Oh

1099
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 3: my god, I cannot tell you how awesome this is.

1100
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: So much I learned. This is a lot of fun.

1101
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed it. Before say goodbye.

1102
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: Just tell everybody what you're up to, what they you

1103
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 3: want them to check out that you're doing, Promote anything

1104
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 3: you want.

1105
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: The floor is yours.

1106
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, listen, I just told you and like

1107
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: this is the preview, and it's maybe bad to talk

1108
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 2: about because then if it's something happens I don't do it,

1109
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: it's going to suck. But I've been working on doing

1110
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 2: this Rescue Dog Combine and so hopefully next year you

1111
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 2: see it ahead of the NFL Combine, which basically kind

1112
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: of takes like the idea of the Puppy Bowl but

1113
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: extends it to we got to run some drills where

1114
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: I also created This is a really interesting use case

1115
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 2: for how I've been coding, which is to do like

1116
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 2: a matching system between a person and the type of

1117
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: dog or the dog that they should potentially adopt, which

1118
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 2: is again like a big Creeric match dot Com for

1119
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 2: your dog, but only based on things that you might

1120
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: not say. Anyways. Long story short is Rescue dot Combine,

1121
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 2: in addition to taking a little time to reset with

1122
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: the league, watching OTAs and getting ready for we'll be

1123
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,799
Speaker 2: back and acting like in a month like we're back

1124
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: in action. You know, training camp's gonna be here before

1125
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: we know it.

1126
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then if these new rules are we're not

1127
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 3: gonna have any off season at all, and we're going

1128
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: to have you working every month and every year, which

1129
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 3: is fantastic, but we already do.

1130
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:37,359
Speaker 1: That is true.

1131
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 2: There really is no players too.

1132
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,439
Speaker 1: You're right, Cynthia, You're the best.

1133
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for the time. Good luck with

1134
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 3: everything this summer and look forward to the season. Thanks

1135
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 3: so much for being with us.

1136
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, thank you so much for having me and everybody.

1137
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,919
Speaker 3: Thanks for watching this in the Giants Little podcast, brought

1138
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 3: to you by Citizens Official Bank of the Giants.

1139
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time. Everybody,