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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast Strap Yourself In for a Banger,

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Speaker 2: I welcome back my old friend, degenerate gambler Howard Linsen.

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Speaker 2: We talk about stock twits, about social leverage, about his

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Speaker 2: early investment in robin Hood, about why he's concerned about

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Speaker 2: the degeneracy economy, between meme coins and end of day

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Speaker 2: options and parlays. He's concerned about what the next generation

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Speaker 2: is doing. I thought this conversation was hilarious and I

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Speaker 2: think you will also, with no further ado, my sit

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Speaker 2: down with the one and only Howard Lenzen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, if only my kids could hear that.

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Speaker 2: I know they think you're just an old man. They

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Speaker 2: have they wins, show, use the finger and ask for pity.

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Speaker 2: Surgically reattached.

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Speaker 3: Surgically reattached is a lesson of how lucky we are.

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Speaker 3: What I've lived without a cute pain. Like first of all,

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Speaker 3: when I when I cut it off, It's amazing how

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Speaker 3: many people do.

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Speaker 2: Do Was it still dangling on or was it severed completely?

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Speaker 3: You pick it up? You call nine one one and

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Speaker 3: as a jew. I wasn't sure if I boil it

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Speaker 3: or freeze it. So that was the question I asked.

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Speaker 3: It happened, Well, it's a jew.

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Speaker 2: You're only supposed to take the tip on.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you'll cook it. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if you freeze it. It's like lobster. So uh, the

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Speaker 3: woman said, please don't bleed out. I go, that is

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Speaker 3: not helpful right now, As luck would have it, I

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Speaker 3: live on corn Good advice, Yeah, good advice. I'm like

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Speaker 3: the one I got to call nine one one. I go,

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Speaker 3: let's not talk, get me a machine over to my house,

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Speaker 3: give me a robot. So living in Cornat, it was

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Speaker 3: a magical place. You've been there, and the great news

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Speaker 3: about Corners and Navy baysed Navy seals are there. It's

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Speaker 3: like it's the greatest place.

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Speaker 2: They have a hospital right there.

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Speaker 3: They do. But I'm saying, there's cops and firemen everywhere.

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Speaker 3: So literally, as I'm dialing nine one one, it's like

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Speaker 3: they knew I cut my finger off. So so as

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Speaker 3: a miracle would have it, the young I've never really

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Speaker 3: had to be in an ambulance. Again, I'm lucky, and

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Speaker 3: they took me off island because they've found a hand surgeon.

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Speaker 3: It turned out to be thirty years old, which freaked

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Speaker 3: me out because I thought he'd sew it on backwards

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Speaker 3: or whatever. Anyways, long story short, you know I was

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Speaker 3: at peace once you realize you're going to live, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I've never had that happen, like something like that happened.

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Speaker 2: Were you gushing blood? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. As a favorite of my wife, I went to

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Speaker 3: the neighbors to bleed. So it was like the next

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Speaker 3: day it was spotless in front of our house. But

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Speaker 3: as luck had, everybody did a great job. The amazing

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Speaker 3: thing we make fun of so many things in America

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Speaker 3: these days, the emergency system. I needed it. I don't

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Speaker 3: care what I pay in taxes.

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Speaker 2: It was. It was amazing right now, yet you still

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Speaker 2: have ten fingers?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I have ten fingers for now. The joke in

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Speaker 3: the families, I don't want it because it's kind of

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Speaker 3: like a dead finger at this point.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, will it be functional? Will you regain function?

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Speaker 3: It feels like if I'm using it, it just feels

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Speaker 3: like a wet skin, right, and so I'm not happy.

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Speaker 3: But the doctor was like, you can decide later. It

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Speaker 3: was if you want a prosthetic or no, not prosthetic.

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Speaker 3: If you just want to work with a nub, it's

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Speaker 3: only a third of the finger, right, So anyways, it

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Speaker 3: was traumatic, but here we are. Yeah, there's great stories.

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Speaker 3: If you're a storyteller. Cut a finger off. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if you want traffic on Twitter bleed out. Yeah, you

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Speaker 3: can get traffic, but no engagement. That's the problem. I

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Speaker 3: want to go viral. I got nine chances.

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Speaker 2: Twenty one if you want to be accurate, toes.

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Speaker 3: Are not good in the fingers are.

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Speaker 2: Good and twenty one the twenty first.

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Speaker 3: No go the twenty first. You could be president.

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Speaker 2: So let's roll back a little bit and start with

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Speaker 2: your early education. Bachelors from Commerce University, Bachelor's in Commerce

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Speaker 2: from the University at Western Ontario.

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Speaker 3: It's a famous business school for Ana Arizona State and

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Speaker 3: famous for bumbs as on state business school. What does

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Speaker 3: that even mean? And then masters at Thunderbird School of

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Speaker 3: Global Management, which was a great school now owned by

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Speaker 3: a great animated cartoon. And this is correct, So what

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Speaker 3: given all that? What was the original career plan? Comedy? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I grew up you.

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Speaker 2: And Martin Short right out of Canada, right.

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Speaker 3: No mine? He was already older. But I grew up

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Speaker 3: in Toronto and that was when I was seventy five

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Speaker 3: watching Johnny Cerson my first TV. You saw everybody and

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Speaker 3: it was like your living room, and so it's Toronto

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Speaker 3: had Second City, Yeah, John Candy, Martin Short, Eugene Levy.

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Speaker 3: Second City was before Saturday Night Live. And so I

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Speaker 3: grew up.

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Speaker 2: To Surround around the same time little earlier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so I'm like twelve years old giggling, you know,

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Speaker 3: and there was no Internet, so you were like go

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Speaker 3: to the comedy clubs with your friends. Toronto had this

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Speaker 3: clubs called Yak Yaks, which was a famous chain like

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Speaker 3: the Improv but of Canada. And you had Mike Myers.

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Speaker 2: Another Canadian.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody exploding onto the scene at the same time.

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Speaker 3: And so I was doing stand up in high school

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Speaker 3: get out but not good obviously, but Mike Myers would

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Speaker 3: come up. Mike Myers would come up and kill He

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Speaker 3: was like seventeen years old. Jim Carrey fourteen years old,

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Speaker 3: r killing right, And so everybody wanted to be a comic,

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Speaker 3: no different than like the web two point everybody went

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Speaker 3: to Stanford to be an engineer's certain in nineties it

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Speaker 3: was investment banking. Right now, it'll be robots in AI.

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Speaker 3: It's just what's in the water. And I grew up

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Speaker 3: with comedy in the water, and so that was the goal.

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Speaker 3: And obviously, you know with Jewish parents at the time,

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Speaker 3: that ain't flying. Especially I wasn't good, right, and so

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Speaker 3: I went to school.

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Speaker 2: You drop that you weren't good as like an after thought.

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Speaker 2: I think if you're successful and earning a living, well,

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Speaker 2: it was even a Jewish parent will put up with

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Speaker 2: you now like Jerry Steinfeld's mom is fine with you.

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Speaker 3: Yes, But I'm saying now, if my son came in

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Speaker 3: and said, I'm gonna go hit the comedy tour, I'd

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Speaker 3: warn them how dark it is. But I'd say go

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Speaker 3: make it go on YouTube. Right. You know a ten

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Speaker 3: thousand hours you don't have to live in ten thousand hours. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: get the faster you get those ten thousand hours in the.

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Speaker 2: Better, That's right. So you grew up in Canada, you

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Speaker 2: start your career in Phoenix and San Diego and New

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Speaker 2: York City. I'm curious, that's an interesting you know, Toronto, Phoenix,

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Speaker 2: San Diego, New York. How did that geographical upbringing affect

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Speaker 2: your perspective as an investor.

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Speaker 3: Who is an investor? I don't know, because as you

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Speaker 3: as a kid, I was lucky because if you're Jewish

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Speaker 3: in Toronto or New York at that area, you go

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Speaker 3: to Florida, you know, the original Del Boca Vista. But

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Speaker 3: my dad was different and he discovered Phoenix and so

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Speaker 3: in the eighties, like Phoenix was like swamp coolers, and

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Speaker 3: he just liked the weather.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, I'll let you know a little secret.

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Speaker 2: The weather in Florida ain't great. It's humid.

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Speaker 3: To my dad, obviously, that's the way he thought. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so that's why he discovered Phoenix and bought a home.

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Speaker 3: And I like golf and backing, and so lucky for me,

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Speaker 3: we had I went instead of going to Florida, we

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Speaker 3: were going to Arizona and so I would go to

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Speaker 3: the football games as a kid, and I was like, hey,

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Speaker 3: it's you. That was my dream. Just just go to

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Speaker 3: Arizona State University, which I ended up, you know, doing

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Speaker 3: for grad school, which isn't a great grad school, but

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Speaker 3: it was part of school. But that was my dream

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Speaker 3: get out of Canada, right, So I got lucky. You know,

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Speaker 3: my parents exposed me to you know, Arizona, and I

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Speaker 3: went tass you had the time. It was amazing. And

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Speaker 3: then if you're Jewish in Phoenix because the summers, it's

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Speaker 3: like New York goes to Flora in the winter. Jewish

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Speaker 3: people in Phoenix go to this. Go to San Diego

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Speaker 3: in the summer to get.

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Speaker 2: Out of there right the ocean. It's a nice weather.

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Speaker 3: Six hour drive and it's seventy degrees.

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Speaker 2: And I love La Jolla and that it's called.

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Speaker 3: Zoni's So Arizona flood San Diego to Del Mar. I

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Speaker 3: wish so we grew up Coronado. I'm not grew up, Sorry,

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Speaker 3: I I my in laws had a place in Coronado,

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Speaker 3: and so when we had kids, I'm like, get out

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Speaker 3: of the heat. You're yeah, we were not summer but

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Speaker 3: a week here, a week there.

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Speaker 2: I wish California wasn't six hours away. If it was

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Speaker 2: two hours away. One we were just in San Francisco.

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Speaker 3: It's fun again.

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Speaker 2: It's a boomtown. Tales of an apocalyptic healthscape have been.

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Speaker 3: It's still not my favorite, but it's cool.

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Speaker 2: It's less homeless than New York.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not just talking about homeless that people

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Speaker 3: are still.

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Speaker 2: They're educated, they're intelligent. I mean, if you're if you lose.

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Speaker 3: If you're not in New York City, it's not New York.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you leave New York, I don't know

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Speaker 2: about you. I make a conscious effort to not be

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Speaker 2: that New York abroad, even out of fun, out of town. Yeah, California,

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Speaker 2: especially San Francisco, it doesn't feel like you've left town.

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Speaker 3: God love it. Yeah, I mean, I just have the

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Speaker 3: California bug. The coast to coast is a dream and

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Speaker 3: I get to live it.

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Speaker 2: It's just a lot of travel, the.

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Speaker 3: Thing about it. And I do like Florida a lot,

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Speaker 3: but same as you six hours like Phoenix or San Diego.

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Speaker 3: Florida is like not on the no brain, it's no

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Speaker 3: no one does it like it's not a thing.

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Speaker 2: Right, No, it's Phoenix to San Diego makes sense. It

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Speaker 2: nexs to Florida, just like New York to Florida makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Correct New York too.

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Speaker 3: So you asked, So you ask how that happened. That's

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Speaker 3: the right of passions. Instead of Toronto, Florida my whole life.

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Speaker 3: I jumped to the West coast and then I discovered

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Speaker 3: San Diego through my in laws and my wife and yeah,

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Speaker 3: well you've been to Cornado.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, So let's let me let me wrestle

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Speaker 2: this back into submission. So you've worn a lot of hats.

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Speaker 2: You're a hedge fund manager, a founder, a CEO, a

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Speaker 2: seed investor, a media personality. How do you describe to

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Speaker 2: people who don't know you what you do?

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Speaker 3: It's a great question. My in laws are in their

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Speaker 3: eighties and they still ask me what do we tell

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Speaker 3: people you do? And I'm like, who the hell cares well?

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Speaker 3: And the world now decided that for you? No one cares, right?

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Speaker 2: So what do you do?

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Speaker 3: Right? Like, I think we're getting back into like where

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Speaker 3: it's you should be proud to have like a what

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Speaker 3: you call profession. I don't have a profession. So you

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Speaker 3: asked how I got started. It wasn't investing. I got

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Speaker 3: started as investing because I failed at everything else. And

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Speaker 3: which is kind of the Larry David part of it,

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Speaker 3: is like I stumbled into it because the Internet is

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Speaker 3: like water. It'd be like discovering California. Like internet was

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Speaker 3: like tech. So the nineties were like I didn't understand

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Speaker 3: semiconductors were full circle, right, I'm not a code. I

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Speaker 3: don't even know how things work. I never did radio

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Speaker 3: shack right like, so the like walkie talkies were freaking

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Speaker 3: me out. So the odds of me being in tech

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Speaker 3: are part of the comedy. Full circle. We are now

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Speaker 3: back in a tech world, roll modes, chips like.

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Speaker 2: Real stuff, a little secret we never left it just

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Speaker 2: kind of.

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Speaker 3: I found the goofball Ara. Web two was the Goofballer

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Speaker 3: or social media. You could be the class clown and

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Speaker 3: have scale. Now that's gone again, and class clown you

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Speaker 3: now need to be a bully again. It's it's you

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Speaker 3: need to already have distribution.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to build distribution today. So I'm saying when

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Speaker 2: an early adopter is certainly an advice.

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Speaker 3: Super but now it doesn't matter. You have to have

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Speaker 3: real tech chops again. You can't pose like I am,

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Speaker 3: like I have imposter syndrome for the right reasons, right

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Speaker 3: because I'm an embossedor meaning the Internet left a little

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Speaker 3: opening in two thousand and six for goofballs, and we

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Speaker 3: got to participate in an era of free growth. When

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Speaker 3: Facebook didn't charge you or have an AI algorithm that

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Speaker 3: blocked you. You could say whatever you want. People go

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Speaker 3: he's funny, and you could scale for free, which is

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Speaker 3: why we had an Internet boom, Web two point zero

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Speaker 3: Internet boom right after an Internet. Now we live in

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Speaker 3: an era where those people are confusing their genius for

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Speaker 3: a bull market, right, and we're all sick of those people.

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Speaker 2: Can I push back on you a little bit because

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Speaker 2: I know you for so well for so long. Hold

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Speaker 2: the imposter syndrome aside. The early inter rewarded people who

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Speaker 2: could communicate effectively, be it work your way through the media,

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Speaker 2: be it blogs or short form blogs like Twitter or

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Speaker 2: other social media, or podcasts or video and YouTube. There's

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Speaker 2: a whole run of different ways to use the Internet

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Speaker 2: to scale, so it's not an imposter. You basically just

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Speaker 2: kept tacking into what was working. Oh this works, let's

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Speaker 2: do more of it.

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Speaker 3: Of course, but the era was free, so you had

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Speaker 3: that great financial crisis that was going to happen, So

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Speaker 3: meaning Uber couldn't be possible without Google Maps. Like people

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Speaker 3: say Uber is great, it wasn't possible unless there was

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Speaker 3: an iPhone the cloud. People will be typing, I want

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Speaker 3: a taxi without Google Maps, I don't know where to go.

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Speaker 2: That's right, And all of that only worked because of

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Speaker 2: the bubble and the build out of Global Gross and

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Speaker 2: Metromedia fiber. So I'm saying one thousand dollars a mile

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Speaker 2: bought for pennies.

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Speaker 3: My impostor syndrome is born. Of of course I have

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Speaker 3: an ego, but my imposter syndrome is surrounded by crazy

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Speaker 3: people who are mistaking. As I was talking to Tim O'Brien,

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Speaker 3: if this was we went from a World war. Strength

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Speaker 3: mattered not that long ago. This matters right, And I'm

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Speaker 3: like people, just the humility is gone, and I feel

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Speaker 3: it's with my kids and everything. It's with the injury

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Speaker 3: and everything. You have to have some humilion. We need

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Speaker 3: to get back to having some humilion and laughing at

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Speaker 3: our success and going mait a minute. It was a bullmark,

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Speaker 3: a zero interest, the RESERP. There was the free internet aws,

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Speaker 3: you had, YouTube, you had if you here's my question.

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Speaker 3: If you aren't successful, that'd be more interesting. I want

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Speaker 3: to talk to the guy like the Larry Davi commercial

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Speaker 3: with ftx I, when he was like, oh the circle,

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Speaker 3: who fire?

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Speaker 2: Who needs who needs fire?

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Speaker 3: That was such a great commercial because only Larry David

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Speaker 3: or you know, I know the guys the commercial that

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Speaker 3: what made that commercial. Great is Larry David gets the

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Speaker 3: joke you're in on the fact that, of course you

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Speaker 3: made money. You worked at Facebook. It grew because the

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Speaker 3: product was genius and tricked people into signing up. You

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Speaker 3: did nothing except ride the train. Now I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: smart people didn't work there, but let's remember Game of

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Speaker 3: Thrones were all dead. The people that are successful today

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Speaker 3: are Mark Unries and Chamont. The people that I can't

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Speaker 3: like are hilarious to me. They have no humility. Is

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Speaker 3: that Game of Thrones there were all dead first second,

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Speaker 3: first scene there's a hammer in our heads and you

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Speaker 3: and I might have a chance because we're the court

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Speaker 3: just right, and if we dance well enough, dance with me,

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Speaker 3: Monkey Andreas and dead Jama dead there's just a pitchfork

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Speaker 3: in their foreheads on the first scene of Gladiator.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you you know that's see you have people

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Speaker 2: like da Vinci that were consultants to the king to

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Speaker 2: help build weapons and things. So unless you can you

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Speaker 2: know early days of palent here, unless you can say, sure,

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Speaker 2: hey here's how to make a better catapults. Sure you know,

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Speaker 2: those guys survive.

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Speaker 3: So I'm saying I come along with like tweeting stock

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Speaker 3: twigs like it was just enabling communication. Listen, I'm very

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Speaker 3: proud of this stuff, and I also can laugh about

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Speaker 3: how stupid it is, Like I don't have another trick. Right,

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Speaker 3: The Internet left this opening, kind of like discovering California,

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Speaker 3: if you're early to discover California, made to pass the

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Speaker 3: Indians in the mountains. Right, it didn't get robbed by

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Speaker 3: like murdered, stampeded cash, Like, let's carry all our money

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Speaker 3: in a stagecoast pulled by horses at three miles an hour.

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Speaker 3: What are the odds we get killed? Right, It's impossible.

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Speaker 3: So the Internet left this opening, and I snuck through it,

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Speaker 3: and it's fun to look back with some humor at

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Speaker 3: the whole thing. I think the holes closed up like pipes.

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Speaker 3: Zuckerberg owns the pipes. True Social owns their version of

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Speaker 3: a pipe. TikTok has an algorithm. How do you break through?

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Speaker 2: Because those things get tired and the next gen says,

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Speaker 2: just the way fate, just the way Facebook became. Oh

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Speaker 2: my parents are on Facebook. I'm out. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go to Insta and then I'm going to go to TikTok,

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Speaker 2: and so there'll be something.

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Speaker 3: New questioning that I'm just questioning. It'll never have been

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Speaker 3: It'll never be easier than when I made money, And

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Speaker 3: I'm cool with that. That's the imposters.

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Speaker 2: I don't completely disagree with you, and you're touching on

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Speaker 2: a pet thesis. I love to ask what would have

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Speaker 2: happened to you had you been born one hundred years earlier,

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Speaker 2: or even or even twenty five years earlier. Right, if

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Speaker 2: you're born in nineteen forty, what happened?

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Speaker 3: I'm a furrier, look at my yes, most all these

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Speaker 3: beaver have a cafe that has so many dishes on

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Speaker 3: it that make no sense. And I'm selling first. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I have no shot, I have no strength.

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Speaker 2: Right, Just think about how fortunate finger off? Right? So

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Speaker 2: if you didn't bleed out your nine figures, no, you

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Speaker 2: should have shown you stick. You stick your finger into

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Speaker 2: the fire and you quarterize it. That's what the old

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Speaker 2: timers would tell you. Get a get a piece of

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Speaker 2: steel in the in the fire. They'll heat up the iron.

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Speaker 2: You just burn it. And that's your thought.

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Speaker 3: Howie, what's the what's the is the ambulance going to

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Speaker 3: charge too much? And should I bleed at the neighbor's house?

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Speaker 3: Those were my first My wife will kill me that

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Speaker 3: I'm bleeding in our yard.

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Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Howard Lindzen, co

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Speaker 2: founder of Social Leverage, discussing what he calls the degenerate economy.

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Speaker 2: I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters in Business on

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to Masters in

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Speaker 2: Business on Petberg Radio. My extra special guest is someone

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Speaker 2: I've known for too long, Howard Lindzen, co founder of

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Speaker 2: Social Leverage, one of the earliest seed investors in Robin Hood,

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Speaker 2: which is a chapter in my book. Oh, let's do

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Speaker 2: segment two, and I have to start by asking about

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Speaker 2: social leverage. You've been doing this for twenty years, so

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Speaker 2: from the first seed fund you did to today where

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Speaker 2: you have a portfolio of one hundred and fifty plus companies,

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Speaker 2: how has this evolved? First of all, what was the

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Speaker 2: first company you invested in?

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Speaker 3: So, the first company I invested in was so Dumb

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Speaker 3: Cars Direct nineteen ninety eight. The tippy top as my

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Speaker 3: wire left digitally my fingertips or wherever bank it was

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Speaker 3: coming from, it was worthless right, meaning like the the.

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Speaker 2: Series Q right, you were just early pets dot com eventually,

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Speaker 2: but I was later because would have.

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Speaker 3: Been Yes, that was your retail idiot. So I grew up,

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Speaker 3: like I said, I went to a su You're going

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Speaker 3: to be a fur year, right, that's your chance and

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Speaker 3: a bad one because you know, so the Internet comes along.

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Speaker 3: I fall in love with stock market because I had

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Speaker 3: made some money at my at my first startup and

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Speaker 3: I had to be my own broker and so yeahoo

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Speaker 3: finance Jim Kramer, Street dot com like they're still around, right,

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Speaker 3: So so those were my onboarding are you for the

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Speaker 3: Street dot com?

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Speaker 2: They were the dominant Like people who were younger don't realize.

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Speaker 3: Way that was still massive frame still.

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Speaker 2: I think the Street dot com doesn't get the Cramer. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: well he's on TV twice a day saying.

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Speaker 3: This is thirty years Yeah. So that was that's my

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Speaker 3: introduction to retail investing because I couldn't afford a Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: still can so I can afford.

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Speaker 2: I think you could afford a Bloomberg.

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Speaker 3: Posts I wouldn't. I wouldn't know how to use it.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a phone church, especially with nine fingers, how

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Speaker 2: you need all ten fingers for the so.

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Speaker 3: I was inspired by you did street dot Com had

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Speaker 3: Murder's row of writers. It's a new investor, yeh. I

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Speaker 3: just would sit and wait for articles to come out

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Speaker 3: and yeah, who finance? So on the message where it's Pearlman,

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Speaker 3: you like, we were almost first the message.

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Speaker 2: So cars Direct was your first investment.

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Speaker 3: And ten years later I got ten percent of my

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Speaker 3: money back after it being successful. So so my first

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Speaker 3: thing was a disaster.

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Speaker 2: What was your first successful investment?

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Speaker 3: So my first successful investment was a cold call that

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Speaker 3: I made pre Internet in a company I probably talked

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Speaker 3: about the leash called the Grip. It was the so

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Speaker 3: so I had the good fortune of being an hour

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Speaker 3: before the Internet, before the Internet, an hour before the

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Speaker 3: Innit the thing before the thing was QBC. I recall, okay,

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Speaker 3: so before the interstill on PBC was the interest right,

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Speaker 3: meaning there was the whole of Philadelphia was just old

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Speaker 3: people on the phone saying yes, yes, we'll take your

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Speaker 3: order and your credit card. And if you were on

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Speaker 3: QBC was a studio.

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Speaker 2: Like this, what was it?

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Speaker 3: We had a product called the Grit and it's in

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Speaker 3: the QBC Hall of Fame. So I made a cold

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Speaker 3: call while I was a stockbroker to this kid, I

413
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Speaker 3: thinking he was rich because back in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: It was just like the movie was on brad Streets.

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Speaker 3: You would get a newspaper and decide who you're going

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Speaker 3: to cold call that, right, So I hated my job.

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Speaker 3: That was my first job out of college, and I

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Speaker 3: was cold calling to get rich clients. And I called

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Speaker 3: this kid and he ended up needing money like he

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Speaker 3: was just promoting them.

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Speaker 2: He reverse pitched you.

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Speaker 3: He he reversed pitched me, and I had a cobble

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Speaker 3: up twenty five grand from my mom and friends, and

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Speaker 3: I hated and I'm like, I'm in, And then he

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Speaker 3: paid off his AMEX with that twenty By the way.

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Speaker 2: Every stockbroker and salesperson appreciates a good sales pitch. The

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Speaker 2: soccer for a good sales panch.

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Speaker 3: Well, he was promoting himself and I was trying to

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Speaker 3: sell him something, and he sold me on his company.

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Speaker 3: So it turned out to be a home run company.

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Speaker 2: Well it was.

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Speaker 3: He was a dropout Mark Scatteday, unbelievable entrepreneur and he

433
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 3: had he made this product with five balloons wrapped around

434
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,160
Speaker 3: this Siberian millet, and we were the largest Siberian millet

435
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: orderers in the world in the nineties because we were

436
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: making millions of balls a month by hand and selling

437
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: them with corporate logos on them. During the whole nineties pharmacies.

438
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: And on the desk toy Squeaze story, but.

439
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 3: Our genius was putting corporate logos on it.

440
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: Nobody had done that before.

441
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: Well, that industry was huge in the nineties, corporate giveaways

442
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 3: right with trade shows and whatever. And we just got

443
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 3: the right product at the right time, and it was,

444
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: oh my god. We were just how many were the

445
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 3: ball There's so many ball jokes, but they'd all get deleted.

446
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 3: Here we were the ball boys of the nineties.

447
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: How many did we We did sixty.

448
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 3: Seventy million in, said Wout. And the margins were crazy

449
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 3: because unlike retail, if you put bed, Bath and Beyond

450
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: or Compact on the ball, they own it. There's no returns.

451
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: And so so we just had this pet rock business

452
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 3: where like Compact would call them we need a million

453
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 3: balls for Condex and we'd just hire people illegal aliens

454
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: and they would come into Phoenix and they would all

455
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 3: cut their fingers off like making these things.

456
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: But you made it in the stakes.

457
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 3: We made it in the States. We spent all our

458
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: money was trying to figure out how to machine make

459
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: these in the nineties, and we wasted so much money

460
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 3: trying to like get humans out of the process. Compact

461
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: would order a million pay you in advance to start,

462
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 3: so we'd be buying cars. It was just two person company,

463
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 3: like a bunch of like staff, and so we'd go

464
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 3: out to lunch and buy cars because we were paid

465
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 3: before we even started making the product. And so we

466
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 3: were like, that's how I learned business.

467
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: Kind of like you started this on QVC.

468
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: No QVC picked us up, and Mark used to go

469
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 3: on TV and back back in the nineties and KVC

470
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 3: if it was sell they just kept you out there

471
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 3: like a cartoon character. They didn't they hadn't scientifically gone

472
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 3: to the profit per second model because they were surprised

473
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: at their success. So the Grip appealed to like seventy

474
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: year old women who had carpet like they just like

475
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 3: squeezing the So we created this nineteen dollars three pack

476
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 3: that had soft medium and I swear to God, you

477
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: can't make this up and soft medium and firm, and

478
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: KBC just kept Mark on stage all day and the

479
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 3: numbers would go and it was a miracle. That was

480
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: our first success. So that was so I was very

481
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 3: much that was my first Internet success. So sorry, that

482
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 3: was my first success.

483
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 2: When did social leverage launch?

484
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,719
Speaker 3: So so you you and I both lived through this,

485
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: the Great Financial Crisis, and that was an era of

486
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 3: so up until two thousand and seven, two thousand and six,

487
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 3: we lived in a world of financial leverage, meaning and

488
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 3: we know what happened to the end of that stacking

489
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 3: you know, Excel came out. People didn't have to my

490
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 3: dad when I grew up with my dad in Toronto,

491
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 3: if you did an acquisition, it was like seven hundred

492
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: pieces of paper with pencil taped together. Then Excel comes out, which,

493
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: of course nothing, you know, everything's made up at that

494
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: point and on one sell off can change the world.

495
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: But we became a world the stacking things financial leverage, right,

496
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: that was the banking era, and the end of financial

497
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 3: leverage era came in two thousand and six, two thousand

498
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 3: and seven at the same time that social media came out.

499
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 3: So the play on words was I wanted to do.

500
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: As an early adopter of social media, I was like

501
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: an idiot, like me, So the idea was social leverage.

502
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 3: You can't implode with social leverage where this financial level,

503
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: of course, well that was pre canceled. So I'm saying

504
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 3: my thesis was, oh my god, an idiot like me

505
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 3: who knows the right three people can just grow their

506
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 3: network for free forever. And so that was the birth

507
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: of the name social leverage.

508
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense.

509
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was just like a play on where some

510
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 3: people will call me and go, oh, you guys do

511
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 3: social investing. Oh, it's the last thing I do, meaning

512
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: I'm not, there's no impact. It was just the play

513
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 3: on words of financial.

514
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: Leverage to social level. I like it, but good point.

515
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 3: You can blow up on social leverage.

516
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: So now you're up to fund four, fun six, fund six. Wow,

517
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: I have the I and the VE good news.

518
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: You pass on all of them. We continue to do

519
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 3: well until you come in.

520
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 2: As soon as I come in, it's over.

521
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: Well that's when we shut down.

522
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 2: And and I famously, more infamously was an investor in

523
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,239
Speaker 2: stock to Its and then when you pitched me on

524
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 2: robin Hood it's a line in the book, how that's

525
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 2: the dumbest FN idea I've ever heard of my life.

526
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: You weren't the only one, and it was it was

527
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: I will, I will, I.

528
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 3: Will you the majority. You were in the majority.

529
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 2: I own it in the book, and between you and me,

530
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: I'll say a it was off brands and be no

531
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: doubt that the pandemic lockdown helped them dramatically.

532
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: No, no, no. The thing about Rominhood because I was there

533
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 3: from day one and by day one, I mean there

534
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: was another company, Kronos Research before they were like high

535
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: frequency guys and math guys, but you could only this

536
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 3: is about you ask about investing. It's you know, the

537
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: life I've led boots on, like just curiosity, your eyes, nose, ears, feet.

538
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: You become a great investor by like touching, feeling right.

539
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: You got to be on street level. The best investors

540
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: are street level. I'm talking about private markets. Public markets

541
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: are different thing.

542
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: So let's talk about private We were talking.

543
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: About Robin Hoood. So so the great thing about Robinhood

544
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,239
Speaker 3: is it's not that I got it right. It's like

545
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: I was. If I didn't get that right, I'm nobody,

546
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: meaning I had to get that right. Yaho Finance user

547
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: street dot com guy E trade baby, you know what

548
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: I mean. Twitter user Stark twits founder, and I if

549
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: I had any nerve or any text skills or any

550
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: like real balls or whatever we're going to call it,

551
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: I build my own brokeer it like I was there

552
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 3: to do all that. But in twenty ten, even until

553
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 3: till robin Hood started, no one wanted to start it.

554
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: Brokerage ideas are terrible idea, So you have to understand

555
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: that in twenty thirteen when I saw Robinhood, no one

556
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: in America. That's shocking that no one wanted to build

557
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: each trade two point zero. But what the venture capitalists

558
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 3: were doing, they were enamored. And this is where venture capitalists.

559
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 3: I always goof on venture capitalists. They were enameled with

560
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: the wrong thing that at the time it was like

561
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: wealth Front Betterment. The vcs were enamored with Assets under

562
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 3: Management AUM. They felt like Vanguard was the one to disrupt.

563
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: So everybody wanted to be the next. If you're a

564
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 3: venture capitalists, you want to be the next Vanguard. No

565
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 3: one needs and I thought that was flawed. I thought

566
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 3: that was flawed. Margins are tiny and and you're never

567
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 3: going to build something ten times better than Vanguard, Meaning

568
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: wait a minute, what's wrong with Vanguard? And versus E trade.

569
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's interface trade, you know, it's just ripping

570
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 3: me off. And I was I was the right guy

571
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: to get that pitch at the right time, so of

572
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: course I had to do that deal. It would have

573
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 3: been That's what. That's why the podcast with the guy

574
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: who passed. If I passed on Rabbit, I'd be a

575
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: more interesting guest.

576
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: Like, so, how much did you put into.

577
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 3: What we did? One hundred? Like we had it was

578
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: our first fun so we were writing one hundred thousand

579
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: dollars checks, so it was one hundred thousand dollars at

580
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: eight million. I thought it was expensive and an eight

581
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: million valuation, like at the time we were doing three

582
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: million valuations, so you know, Like I met them by

583
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: jew and Vlade. I flew up because they called me

584
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: because of stock Twitch. So they called me and said

585
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: we have this app they were they were at they

586
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 3: were out of money, and I flew up to Silicon

587
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 3: Valley and they showed up wearing Google glass two idiots

588
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 3: like I'm like, immediately am I like, no one? You

589
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: know what I mean? I remember that era. I don't

590
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 3: know what it was, but I was immediately like what

591
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 3: And two dorks, but they showed me the app. They

592
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: had this guy Joe who was their designer, who had

593
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 3: been at Facebook, and he showed me the app. And

594
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: that's when I knew it wasn't live. They didn't have

595
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: their finra, they didn't have their brokers, so it was

596
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: really early. But because of stock Twits and Twitter, I

597
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 3: knew that if you build it, they will come. If

598
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: you build a design like Uber, if you build Uber

599
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: for trading. Okay, what people didn't get again was they

600
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: were all betting. Hundreds of millions have been invested in

601
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: Betterment and wealth friend at the time, so the Silicon

602
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 3: Valley was leaning into the vanguard model. So no one

603
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 3: wanted to do the deal because who needs another brokerage

604
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: And by the way, building a brokerage getting SEC approval

605
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: VC's not like doing work, like waiting at you. Vcs

606
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: do not like doing investment. Now they do because there's

607
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 3: so much money in sovereign. You know, you can get

608
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: so much money in charge two percent. But back in

609
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen, it was like, so, mamny, something that's working,

610
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: I want to be the over of that. So to

611
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: take a year off and go get SEC approval to

612
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: go do those things they deserved, and you had to weight.

613
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: You couldn't just go launch it and get sued.

614
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: This is in hindsight, if you want to be the

615
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 2: next vanguard. Wait, their secret sauce is that they have

616
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: such scale they could charge four BIPs and still make money.

617
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 2: You're losing money at twenty five bits.

618
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 3: And if you switch, you switch, but they have so

619
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 3: much assets, so switching costs. So I could we could

620
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: talk about this forever. I was in the right place,

621
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: right time, right people pitch me right valuation, everything worked.

622
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: I could tell you one hundred stories of like everything

623
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 3: lined up and it doesn't work. Robin Hood would have

624
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: worked whether I showed up or not. So we did

625
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand. Now, obviously we helped them tremendously with

626
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: Stock to It. We were like responsible over hundreds of

627
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: thousands of early sign ups because Stocked with the user

628
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 3: loved the idea of course free trading, free trade, but

629
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 3: also the API hooking in that you could slide right

630
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 3: on right over and trade. Yeah, it's pretty funny now,

631
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 3: that idea. In O seven when I had it Jack

632
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: and Ev, like as a Twitter guy, I went to

633
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: Jack and ab yeah, and AV and Fred Wilson put

634
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 3: me in the room with them, and I'm like, guys,

635
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: what are you talking about Kim Kardashian taking a poop

636
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 3: on Kanye West. That's not interesting. You know what's interesting

637
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: The President's going to tweet one day and the markets

638
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 3: are gonna move. Like this is literally my pitch to

639
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: Jack and Ev set up my friend Wilson, who was

640
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: just they were like Kumbaya plane lands on a Hudson right, Uh,

641
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, we're growing our beards. No, you know, like

642
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 3: I mean, they were just the darlings up. They didn't

643
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: need it.

644
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: Well, they were like it was the town, the town.

645
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: They weren't massive, they weren't the guys. They were Kumbaya guys.

646
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 3: They were builders. So my pitch fell on like who

647
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 3: are you They didn't.

648
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: Get monetizing Twitter through.

649
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: They didn't. It's not about monet they didn't understand what

650
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 3: they had, meaning selling ads against something that Goldman Sachs

651
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: will pay Infinity for, meaning a new pipe where Bloomberg's

652
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 3: charging two thousand dollars to get real time information now

653
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 3: like Osama bin Lana and getting killed the futures like

654
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: in oh wait, whenever Osama was finally killed. I know

655
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: where I was because immediately I checked the futures and

656
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 3: they had already moved. And that's because of Twitter, right,

657
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: because some guy in Pakistan saw it in the futures

658
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: move Like that's when I should have clicked. Is like,

659
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: shut down everything, delay the feed thirty seconds and you

660
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 3: know what's going to happen. Goldman will call you Reuters, Bloomberg,

661
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 3: They'll see that you're off by thirty seconds, and they'll

662
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 3: pay you fortunes to get the real time feed. You

663
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 3: and me Schmucke don't need real time one seconds. So

664
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: my pitch to Jack and Ev with Fred Wilson was like,

665
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: slow down the feed because ninety nine percent of the

666
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: populace and then we're there anyways with AI knowing they

667
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: don't one gets the real time feed. Right, slow down

668
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: the feed. Your phone will ring for the people that

669
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 3: know that the feeds are not in real time, and

670
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 3: they will pay you infinity to get the pipe. And

671
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: they were like, no, let's sell ads. So here we are.

672
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 2: So so you haven't talked about the cash tag, which

673
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: I really want to talk about something stock Twits invented, yes,

674
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,280
Speaker 2: a dollar sign and then AAPL is the symbol for appsle.

675
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,959
Speaker 3: So this is the Jack and out stores. So again

676
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 3: I didn't want to start a company. I just sold

677
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 3: wall Strip, which you know, which was my best work.

678
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: But again stupid. But no, personally, I'm most proud of it.

679
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: You sell a company to CBS when you are literally

680
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: an idiot, is the dream?

681
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: It's a fair disclosure.

682
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they said. By the way, as they wrote

683
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 3: as less, Moondez wrote to CHETI goes, I can't believe

684
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: we're writing an idiot like this. A check that was

685
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: like quote. I said, please write that like you and

686
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: your book. Please write that. You're so angry. So anyways,

687
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 3: they had just bought my company and literally a month later,

688
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, you made the wrong acquisition. You need to

689
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 3: buy Twitter like Twitter is to Quincy At who had

690
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: bought my company at CBS, and I remember there was

691
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: no iPhone yet and Twitter came out and I thought

692
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: it was stupid. You thought it was stupid.

693
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: We all thought it was just annoying.

694
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: Andy Swan, an old friend, was like, I get this,

695
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 3: this is financial because you know, at the beginning, I'm on,

696
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 3: we all had our BlackBerry. It wasn't even it wasn't

697
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 3: even a native mobile app. It was just the web

698
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: and it was all venture capitals. And my shtick in

699
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: two thousand and six two thousand and seven was I

700
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: just peeed at the grammar cy like. So the vcs

701
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 3: loved me. They were like, who's this idiot talking about?

702
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: Was Bowel movements And and then Andy Swan said, you

703
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 3: know this is like financial this is like a new Bloomberg, right,

704
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: And I said, and I just so. So the hashtag

705
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: was a thing, and I'm like, it was all spam,

706
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: like if you went to Apple, like hashtag aapl or

707
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: hashtag apples, like I went to the store and bought

708
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 3: a green apple, right, Like that's literally what people were saying.

709
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 3: It was so now it would be lots of new apples,

710
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 3: but like at the beginning, it was like I bought

711
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 3: a green apple and I'm like that spam. So I

712
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: sent Fred Wilson the first message, and I'm saying like

713
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: and back then BlackBerry was the hot stuck and I'm like,

714
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: I just bought dollar sign ri imm And Fred Wilson

715
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: is the godfather of all this and was an investor

716
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 3: in Twitter sent me back at Texacos, this is a genius.

717
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 3: You need to start a company, and that's what set

718
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 3: me down.

719
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 2: The stock Twits past was Wilson, an investor in stock.

720
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 3: Twits, No, because he was an investor in Twitter and

721
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 3: he thought there would be a conflict.

722
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: It's no conflict.

723
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 3: I agree, but Fred is a Fred is zero g

724
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: Why Fred's the OG? So Fred's strategy is if he

725
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 3: bets on one, he does, and I follow Fred's strategy.

726
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 3: There's other people who spray and prey and don't care

727
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 3: who they are, and ninety percent do that. But Fred

728
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 3: was of the opinion back then it's like, I work

729
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 3: with you, there's going to be conflicts. Are a thing

730
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: like no conflict, no interest. That's He's very cool that way.

731
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: But don't create conflicts just to create conflict. So in

732
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 3: his wisdom, he was like, you know what's going to

733
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: happen if you guys get in a fight and YadA

734
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 3: YadA yadas. So he politely backed out, but we were

735
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 3: backed by good VC is. Raising money was not my problem.

736
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 3: My VC should have said, Harry, you know it's not

737
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 3: a good enough idea.

738
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: So as an investor in stock twits, I always wondered

739
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 2: why the hell in Twitter buy stock to its?

740
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: Well, they don't understand finance is that should have bought it.

741
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 3: You remember the last scene in Raiders was a the lostart.

742
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: The whole movie it was about getting and then the

743
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 3: last scene is this is a very important and it's

744
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 3: just a black hole forever whatever, never to be seen again.

745
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 3: The best tech companies like Salesforce, he understands corporate death.

746
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 3: Sometimes you buy something.

747
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 2: To kill it.

748
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 3: To say, and by the way, they're like my newman.

749
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: Twitter's like my newman from sipos.

750
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: It's like Twitter, like, you know, now who's dating themselves?

751
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 3: So no, but what I'm saying is they're Minuman like

752
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: in Seinfeldt, meaning these people. It was a clown car,

753
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 3: as Zuckerberg said, there's so many people that got rich

754
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 3: executing I love the line it was posts, but Zuckerberg

755
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: said it first, which was a clown car.

756
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: I don't know that crashed into a gold mine.

757
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so Twitter, And the real problem with Twitter

758
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: was it was a financial product. And Elan knows that

759
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 3: better than anybody in the end because although he just

760
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: well he monetized it by stuffing it in a shell company,

761
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: it's still like it's an asset. He's made tremendous mistakes

762
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: to think that Trump end arounded the whole thing, meaning

763
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 3: Twitter is supposed to be a real time network they

764
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: have to pull. True social is worthless other than one

765
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 3: guy who sits on top of Twitter and you have

766
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: to copy paste his tweet.

767
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: Like so Twitter on a different plat forgetting.

768
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: How bungled the the fact that they owned real time

769
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 3: and do not own real time, and that I'm the

770
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: schmock that came up with the original, like Trump is

771
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: going to tweet now, obviously Obama was president when I

772
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 3: had this idea, but like that, the pipe matters, and

773
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: who is king of the pipe. To think that Trump

774
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: beat Elon at his own game is pretty insane.

775
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: He is savvy in ways that people don't appreciate.

776
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: Insane. The truth social exists, it's worthless, but for one

777
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: guy tweeting right, unbelievable. So it's inconceivable to bring best

778
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: in my man of Orange. So the poison cannot be

779
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 3: in front of you.

780
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 2: So now twenty twenty four, you come back to Stock

781
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: to its as CEO. What motivated that? Are the early

782
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: investors going to see an exit? What's going on?

783
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 3: That's inside information?

784
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: No, it's not public, No, So it's it's non public information,

785
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: but it's not a legal inside information.

786
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, stuctures is like a corn on your foot.

787
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, can't go.

788
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 3: Here's the thing about venture capital is here's the thing

789
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 3: about venture capital. Not everything should be venture capital.

790
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 2: True.

791
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 3: Okay, So I joke about this with with my finger,

792
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 3: like whose fault is it? Okay, I think Stoctor was

793
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: a great idea. The cashag was a great idea. I'm

794
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 3: very proud of that. I'm not proud of having to

795
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: run a company seventeen years later, not that it wasn't

796
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 3: my dream when I started as stock to this is

797
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 3: to be sitting here answering questions about how am I

798
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 3: going to make money?

799
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: Let me buy You are a very right to do this.

800
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: So what I'm saying is I and young kids need

801
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 3: to know this, like math, Not everybody gets to have

802
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 3: a startup of course. Okay, Well, my venture capitalist, if

803
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: they're as good as they say, and they are great,

804
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: should have stopped me and said this isn't quite a venture.

805
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: Let me push back on that, because I knew you.

806
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 2: I know that I am and your venture capitalists, and

807
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: we know a lot of the same people said hey,

808
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: there was a window to get out. You wouldn't have

809
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: gotten an f you number, but you would have gotten

810
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 2: a pretty good No, I never got a number. There

811
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 2: was never I thought there were discussions that just never

812
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: came to discussion. Yeah, I thought you guys were on

813
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: the one yard.

814
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: I'm discussing it right now openly. There's always a price

815
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 3: which camera camera two? No, listen, we have never Some

816
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: things are only fairly valued for a second, right, and

817
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 3: somethings stay overvalued or undervalued forever as well. From the

818
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 3: sure and I think stock twits. I'll take full responsibility.

819
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 3: We've always missed a window of positioning, right. But the

820
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: goodness is stock is thriving right, Well, this is the

821
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 3: perfect So I'm saying, like Robin Hood, we were ten

822
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 3: years ahead of our time. If you think about where

823
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: public when when I started Stock to its retail investing

824
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 3: was a laughing stock, and it still is the most institutions.

825
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 2: Much less so today.

826
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 3: Correct. So again, if you look at my portfolio.

827
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: By the way, the private equity, private credit, it wouldn't

828
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: be so hungry for retail investors. It was, truly.

829
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 3: Yes, they call me every day, right, So there's two

830
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 3: worlds that I live in the world where retail doesn't

831
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: take itself seriously enough, and private equity guys call me

832
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 3: CEOs of public companies called me to take like I'm

833
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: in a crazy seat because I'm a goofball. But I

834
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: am serious, you know, like I am serious, Like I'm

835
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 3: trying to be serious.

836
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: You used to be sixty forty goofball serious, Now you're

837
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: forty sixty. Yeah, it switches, You're the new sixty forty.

838
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm I can laugh at myself, but I'm

839
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: trying to run a serious business, right because because it's

840
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: been a long time and we were just way ahead

841
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: of the curve. Like Jack and Ev didn't understand what

842
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 3: we have. Fred Wilson understood it right. There are very

843
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 3: few people that understood. Very few people liked Robinhood until

844
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 3: twenty twenty in GameStop. Then they like it for the

845
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 3: wrong reasons. By the way, I don't like the Robinhood

846
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 3: that became, like I'm not. I call it the degenerate economy.

847
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: But when I invested in Robinhood, I didn't know the

848
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: degenerate economy we exist. I didn't know the prediction markets

849
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: it would exist. I didn't know options would be their

850
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 3: biggest product. I was just wanting to see.

851
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:12,280
Speaker 2: Options are bigger than crypto for robin Hood.

852
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: Crypto tiny options is everything of their profits will come

853
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 3: from options.

854
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 2: Any Wow, I didn't realize that.

855
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 3: Why are they going to make money on zero commission

856
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 3: other than options.

857
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: In their order flow margin loans?

858
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 3: That's just that's just media being bad media.

859
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you that the big shops like

860
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: Fidelity in Schwab, the single biggest line on the line

861
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 2: item of profitability are credit loans.

862
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 3: Okay, it could be. I don't know, I'll do the

863
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 3: fin At.

864
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: One point in time it was over half at Schwab.

865
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: I don't know what is today.

866
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 3: When we invested in Robinhood, here was my thinking is,

867
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: first of all, I love the product. You got to

868
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 3: be a user of the product to be a good investmentator.

869
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 3: I'm not the guy who's like, here's space check and

870
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 3: here's a biotect. What do I know? So the odds

871
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 3: have to be stacked to my favor first of all.

872
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: But second of all, and they were I was Yahoo,

873
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,800
Speaker 3: I was Yahoo Finance, I was you, I was blogging,

874
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: I was doing everything. And they came along at the

875
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 3: right time. When Robin the pitch for me with Robinhood

876
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 3: was not that they were going to make money. It

877
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,439
Speaker 3: was an eight million valuation. Like you know, at my event,

878
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 3: people were like, how are they going to make money?

879
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 3: I'm like, chill the hell out. They haven't even launched

880
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 3: a thing. The point was, Schwab was paying one hundred

881
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 3: and fifty dollars to get a customer.

882
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: Too, a choir customers position, and.

883
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: My thesis was like uber Robinhood would pay zero. So

884
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 3: if you get a million people, even if they're four

885
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: dollars in their capas it's one hundred, that's a good ARB.

886
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: Those don't come along very right. Well, did I think

887
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 3: it could be a thirty billion dollars. I'm not so

888
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 3: psycho that I thought I was investing in a thirty

889
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 3: forty million dollar company billions billion, So of course I'm

890
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: not that smart. But what I'm saying is I saw

891
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 3: the ARB and all they had to do was deliver

892
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 3: the product. Now it went way beyond my expectations. That's

893
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: the Larry Davis, the.

894
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 2: Way you didn't give me that pitch.

895
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 3: The pitch was, I'm sure I did it.

896
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: The pitch was free trading millennials. The whole next generation.

897
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 2: You're going to capture them before anybody else.

898
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 3: Well I knew that from structors. I knew i'd capture them.

899
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 3: But if I say, if I mentioned the ARB trade,

900
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 3: people are like, oh, they're gonna have to raise so

901
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 3: much money.

902
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: There was a lot of trade. In hindsight, yeah, the

903
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: AR trade would why I invested? What would have been compelling?

904
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 2: And again it's a chapion. I'll tell you a grade.

905
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: It's so off rand one great story go ahead.

906
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 3: Because because this is just an investing story. So we're

907
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 3: very small fund The first one was six million. We've

908
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: done now we run one hundred million dollar funds and

909
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: cap it at a hundred or Yeah, I don't think.

910
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 3: I don't think our returns would be good. We like

911
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: writing one to two million dollar checks. That stay in

912
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: your lane is something everybody hates saying, but I think

913
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 3: in my world, unless your fee gathering, stay in your lane.

914
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: Like people know what we do.

915
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: You can laugh.

916
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 3: I believe in that, and I hate when people say it,

917
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 3: but I practice.

918
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: That's an annoying way to say. I disagree with what

919
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 2: you're saying, but right, but what you're saying is story

920
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 2: berteas here's my skill set. I'm a good one to

921
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 2: apply the area I know better.

922
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: So with Robin so occasionally and again, and I had

923
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: breakfast with Fred this morning. We're talking about like your

924
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 3: a legend, Josh is alleged, Like I'm around surrounded by

925
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: legends because I've lived long enough.

926
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: Okay, I've lived.

927
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,759
Speaker 3: Long enough, and I'm curious and I'm nice and i

928
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: call people to say hello, I'm a salesman. So who

929
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: do I see this morning? Fred Wilson, Like who did

930
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 3: I rend it? Tim O'Brien like I'm friends with like

931
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 3: people that have you have signal because you have what

932
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 3: you've been on the strut and you have experience, not

933
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 3: maybe in space, but in what you do, you have signal.

934
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 3: So with Robinhood and I had learned from Fred Wilson,

935
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 3: like if you really believe in something, and I'm not

936
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 3: a poker player at at all, and ball, you gotta

937
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 3: go in as a VC. You have to.

938
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: So Robinhood, you're convincing me to throw money into fun

939
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: seven and that'll be the end of your run.

940
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 3: But that's different. Every fund is like a crop of wine.

941
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 3: It could go riding.

942
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 2: How you know we're twenty four was a good Vintage.

943
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 3: Twenty twenty one terrible biture. So so so when Robinhood

944
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: was doing very well, but they the two guys were like,

945
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 3: it was not popular. Everybody. All the vcs had committed

946
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 3: to a better meant well front model. So now they

947
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: needed to raise another round. And I'm like, they wanted

948
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: to raise.

949
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 2: It think fourteen fourteen, yeah, so it was I think

950
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 2: that's when we spoke.

951
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they were like, and I'm like inexperienced because

952
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 3: we write one check, we don't have more money. So

953
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 3: they call me up and they go, can you write

954
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: us a term sheet. It's a very sophisticated way of

955
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: saying like you won't have to like actually invest, but

956
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 3: if you come in like we can shop like we

957
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: can kind of shop it around. So I'm like, dude,

958
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 3: screw that all I want to invest. So over like

959
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 3: July fourth weekend, told my partner and I was two

960
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: of us at a time. I'm like, let's just write

961
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 3: an eleven million. They needed to raise eleven million bucks

962
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 3: and they wanted to raise it at some stupid valuation.

963
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: It was sixty million ish and I'm like, well, we're

964
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: never going to have to really write it. But even

965
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 3: if we do. I can convince my friends like this

966
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 3: is the one. And I called Fred Wilson and goes,

967
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 3: what are you calling me for? You know what to do?

968
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 3: Write a term sheet? I go, but we don't have

969
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 3: eleven million dollars and Fred goes, you'll find it. Just

970
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 3: just do it like a six week which is absurd

971
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: now today people write billion dollar checks in an hour.

972
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: But like goes, just ask for six weeks. Right, so

973
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: we you know, we're you know whatever, you're typing it up.

974
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 3: Send him a term sheet. So yeah, back then more

975
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 3: but you know, ten fingers more errors. So anyway, so

976
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 3: we write up this term sheet, we send it to him,

977
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 3: and they shop it as they probably index ventures. Jan Hamer,

978
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 3: who's like like one of the best investors, comes back

979
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 3: with a term sheet of eleven million on sixty five million,

980
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: Wow and like a five day close, so like, you know,

981
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: they got what they wanted. Oh and by the way,

982
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: index in their term sheet index in the terms social leverage.

983
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 3: That's a typical like who are they Luckily by writing

984
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 3: that term she bought them by jud did the right thing,

985
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 3: and they carved out like as much as we could.

986
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 3: We couldn't even raise a million. So when we so,

987
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 3: they carved us out. We put eight hundred grand in

988
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 3: the Series A. If we had done the eleven million,

989
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 3: I'd be a billionaire two hundred x on the Yeah,

990
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: no way bigger like at the peak. But like, but

991
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 3: we've had better investments.

992
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: We had better hitting with the Robin Hood shows.

993
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 3: A lot of my alpas we distributed the Stark. A

994
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 3: lot of my LPAs have not sold.

995
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 2: Nobody says, I don't ask.

996
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 3: Our job is to deliver them the cash.

997
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: I want to start with a quote of yours that

998
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: I really love. Quote. The whole world has become a casino.

999
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 2: Thanks to AI and prediction markets, we are all more

1000
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 2: productive and degenerate. Now let's talk a little bit about

1001
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: the degenerate economy. Explain to listeners what is the degenerate

1002
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 2: economy or the d gen economy.

1003
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 3: I don't like the word djen, So when I say degenerate,

1004
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 3: I say it in the humoristic way. You and I

1005
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 3: are degenerates, right because we'll buy a watch, we'll bet

1006
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 3: on a game we laugh at degenerously. We don't. We

1007
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 3: don't we appreciate the art of degeneracy versus meaning meaning

1008
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: Laser eyes was dumb, right, But degeneracy is an art

1009
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: form like speculation. And I live, I own, and I

1010
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: joke that I own and operate two millennials. And when

1011
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 3: you own and operate two millennials, you watch you look

1012
00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 3: over their shoulders.

1013
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 2: Those were your first startups?

1014
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 3: No, my kid, Yes, but these two startups the only

1015
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: startups that matter.

1016
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: And did either of them merge it? We have any

1017
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 2: m and.

1018
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 3: A activity we need, We need.

1019
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,399
Speaker 2: Dividends I'm talking about are they married? So no mergers yet?

1020
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 3: My son was, My son was on the board. You

1021
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 3: should be chairman of their booyman on the board. I'm

1022
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 3: trying to get you see, I'm trying to get them fired.

1023
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get medical checks to see if anything's working.

1024
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 3: So so degenerate economy was born of this idea that

1025
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe where we went, like with Game Stop.

1026
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 3: Like I was so stressed during the Game Stop thing

1027
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: because really I hadn't monetized. I hadn't monetized our investment.

1028
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, er, there was a weekend when robinhood was

1029
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 3: worth forty billion, right, and it could have been worthless?

1030
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 3: Do you understand? Like I wasn't rich and I'm like,

1031
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 3: it wasn't even their blame. Whoever you want. People lost

1032
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 3: their minds, and so let me just explain to you.

1033
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: If you have your.

1034
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: Phone, go ahead.

1035
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: What Robinhood perfected which no one figured out, was like

1036
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 3: when we used to play pinball. Everybody there was always

1037
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 3: that kid who was so good at it crazy could

1038
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 3: stump it well, he could bump it without tilting it right,

1039
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,919
Speaker 3: and he could just get the he could just get

1040
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:04,319
Speaker 3: the machine to dance tilt. Happened everybody. The app was

1041
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: so well designed. The app was so well designed that

1042
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: everybody pushed the same button at the same time.

1043
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: And it couldn't carry the I remember when you.

1044
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 3: Understand, that's literally what happened. So it was a design flaw,

1045
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: it was a design flow.

1046
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: It wasn't the design floor. Nobody expected it to scale

1047
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 2: ten thousand x no.

1048
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 3: But well, if you push everybody to one button right

1049
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 3: or another button, yeah, and then people come on, see me,

1050
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 3: say push this button, and everybody's like, let's see what happens,

1051
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 3: and guess what happened. Crash not to be repeated again,

1052
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 3: hasn't been repeated again, and that's what makes the markets great.

1053
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 3: That hole was filled by the whole being created. We

1054
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 3: haven't seen another thing like this, although recently with Carl Avis.

1055
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 3: But like GameStop broke the machine and almost bankrupted the company.

1056
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,840
Speaker 3: And it was many lessons in there. The most important

1057
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 3: was Robin Hood not in their hubris or anything. They

1058
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 3: mistook success for a brand. When you build a brand

1059
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: in four years, not forty years, you don't appreciate that

1060
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: you have no brand value, right, And I'm like, no

1061
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 3: one understands this, like they were one of the first

1062
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 3: case studies, and like what it didn't deserve to be zero?

1063
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,879
Speaker 3: Who knows all the things that went wrong. But I'm

1064
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 3: just some guy who's like, what the right couldn't how

1065
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 3: embarrassing would be if it goes from forty billion to zero?

1066
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 3: And you know, Galloway and all these guys were piling

1067
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 3: on and all these people piling on them, like you

1068
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 3: don't even understand what's going on.

1069
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,160
Speaker 2: So wait, let me tease this out of you a

1070
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: little bit. I thought you were going in a different direction.

1071
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: How degenerate the trading in things like GameStop and when

1072
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 2: Hurtz was bankrupt and or was it Avis, I don't

1073
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:45,799
Speaker 2: even remember which some really foolish reckless, and I think

1074
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: those of us with gray hair looked at it and

1075
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: kind of laughed because we knew exactly how.

1076
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: That gapes and all the stuff. I hate it, right, But.

1077
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: That wasn't your concern. Your concern was, Hey, here's a

1078
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: fire hose of new clients, new orders. This is the

1079
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 2: scale this company needs to become wildly successful, and they're

1080
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 2: just not prepared to deal with the sheer volume. And

1081
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: if this crash goes on more for a couple of hours,

1082
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 2: two days from now, this is a zero.

1083
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 3: It was a zero. We can argue. I don't know

1084
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 3: the whole story, but I imagine someone called someone at the

1085
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 3: options clearing firm and said, you're bankrupt, and the VC's lucky.

1086
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 3: We're in so big they had put more money.

1087
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 2: They didn't have the reserve cash large trades of options.

1088
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 3: We'll never know the real.

1089
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: Sty So technically Cibo is the counterparty on all trades,

1090
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,840
Speaker 2: and they also on the platform, so they demand a

1091
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: certain amount of capital if you're going to trade X,

1092
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: and they're trading billions of dollars. They didn't have that capital.

1093
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,399
Speaker 3: So this is why my degenerate economy index was born.

1094
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 3: Meaning I don't think AMCs. What's in my index, which

1095
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 3: is outperforming everything is Cibo is one in my time,

1096
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 3: in one position who benefits. So my degenerate economy thesis

1097
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 3: is finding the companies that benefit from global degeneracy.

1098
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 2: You created this last year two years ago, right, so free.

1099
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: I had to share it.

1100
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: Just to put some numbers on this. It's gambling, it's

1101
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: day trading, it's mean coin speculation. It's vaping one hundred

1102
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: and seventy percent. The Nazak one hundred of the same

1103
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: time period isn't even up one hundred percent, it's ninety

1104
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 2: four percent. You're almost doubling the nasdack.

1105
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 3: And I give it away for free because and I share.

1106
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: It's not Why isn't this an ETF because.

1107
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 3: The bank always talks about I was like, why do

1108
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: you want to be in the ETF business?

1109
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 2: So do it? You know you use alpha ETF architects

1110
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 2: work with But then I have.

1111
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 3: A product again. This is I think part of like,

1112
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 3: you know, the age I'm at is like I don't

1113
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 3: want to be someone yelling I mean that my that

1114
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 3: I kathy that as soon as I monetize it or

1115
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 3: go to zero, like this thing will stop working. I

1116
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 3: love the idea that I can give it away for free.

1117
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 3: This goes back to the I appreciate social media, meaning

1118
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 3: what am I going to make? It's like as soon

1119
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 3: as I start charging for it, the whole thing becomes I.

1120
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 2: Took ads off the blog because they were annoying and

1121
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 2: ugly and the amount of revenue it made was just

1122
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: too annoying. You're saying the same thing.

1123
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm saying like, hey man, I'm like, I got

1124
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 3: a little thesis. It's not that complicated.

1125
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 2: I love this thesis.

1126
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 3: I think people the CBO CME hyper liquid now is

1127
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: in there, and no one knows what hyper liquid is.

1128
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 3: I constantly imagined hyper liquid is the is the thing,

1129
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,520
Speaker 3: Meaning today all I get pitched on are by the

1130
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 3: next Robinhoods, and I'm like.

1131
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: The world doesn't robinhood.

1132
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 3: But all they keep talking about is, you know, we

1133
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: got purpse trading twenty four to seven on hyper liquid.

1134
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 3: It's it's it's a new salon now let's call it.

1135
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: Because I'm not a crypto guy, and I'm like, after

1136
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 3: getting one hundred pitches of the same product and they

1137
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 3: all talked about hyper liquid, I just bought hyper liquid.

1138
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 2: And what's the market cap of that.

1139
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 3: Couple. It's like twelve people in one of the most

1140
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 3: profitable companies in the world out of Singapore. Like the

1141
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 3: guy has no freedom because he's so rich. It's like

1142
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 3: a system. It's like a very fast change. What's the

1143
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 3: symbol hype?

1144
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: Hype? What a great symbol.

1145
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a token and you can buy it on

1146
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 3: robin Hood. I'm not promoting, I'm.

1147
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:15,959
Speaker 2: Just saying, so this you can buy it on robin Hood.

1148
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 2: But does this not trade over the counter. You can't

1149
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 2: get it anywhere?

1150
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 3: You can trade it as a There's a dat called

1151
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: p you are arm Again, I'm not recommending it, but

1152
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 3: I'm long and little is a way that you can

1153
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 3: trade it over the counter. And again you're betting on

1154
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 3: the fact you don't know anything about supply to man,

1155
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 3: you're just right. It's the system that everybody's trading.

1156
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 2: Your speculation speculation on other people's speculation. That's that's my

1157
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 2: basis squared.

1158
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 3: So anyways, what I'm what, So the degenerate economy is

1159
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 3: about picks and shovels. We can't stop if a young

1160
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 3: person like my son, And again I own and operate

1161
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 3: two millennials and I don't want them, betting my son

1162
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 3: will call me and goes, I can't believe I lost

1163
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 3: a twenty team, Parlago, Who are you we even of

1164
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 3: my This is why I have to do a step

1165
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 3: in takeover of my son's company, because I'm like, are

1166
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 3: you talking to me? Like you asked them to ven

1167
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 3: you fifty bucks to put on a twenty team parliam

1168
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 3: and your complaining about it's so idiotic. So I'm like

1169
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: trying to teach them not to be idiots.

1170
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: You can have a degenerator a little bit of math,

1171
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 2: the problem is not a math.

1172
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 3: And you also full circle on the general economy. You

1173
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 3: have the wrong teachers right now. I got brought on

1174
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 3: board by guys like you, Kramer, the people whould experience stuff,

1175
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 3: Fred Wilson. These kids are learning from chrum Mouth and

1176
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 3: David Secks. These guys were born of one generation. They

1177
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 3: worked at Facebook, they work for Elon. You could if

1178
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 3: you're not rich working for Elon or Facebook, that would

1179
00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 3: be interesting. If you are rich and you're kissing the

1180
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 3: nipple of Facebook, and it's not interesting. You were supposed

1181
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 3: to be rich, right, have some human so we're my

1182
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 3: kid is stop being a degenerate. But The fact is

1183
00:59:57,120 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 3: you can't not be a degenerate when prices. Kids are

1184
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 3: yoloing because they can, and because friction lists we have

1185
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 3: learned some of these kids will learn how to be

1186
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 3: good put sellers. Premiums I understand, but the markets are

1187
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: very important, meaning having a price on everything is fantastic.

1188
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Howard Linzen, co

1189
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 2: founder of Social Leverage. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to

1190
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 2: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Bury Ridults. You're

1191
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My old

1192
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 2: friend Howard Linzen of Social Leverages here, And when I

1193
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: say old, it's only partly because we know each other

1194
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: so long. It's mostly because he's an old man and

1195
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 2: is now sixty years old. Years ago, my wife and

1196
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 2: I I'm not a cruise person. We were young, we

1197
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 2: were broke. We used to use this website called vacations

1198
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 2: to Go dot com. You've booked last minute, would question

1199
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: nothing like a week long cruise through eight islands in

1200
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: the Caribbean. Five hundred bucks, food and drink included. Booze included,

1201
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 2: so as soon as they hit international water as the

1202
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 2: casino opens, I am not a gambler. We walked through

1203
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 2: and I just decide to look at the roulette table,

1204
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 2: not bet look at it. And this is the difference

1205
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: between my wife, who taught fashion illustration and design, is

1206
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,680
Speaker 2: a visual person. I'm a little more of a math guy.

1207
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 2: And I say to her, so we're watching twenty minutes

1208
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 2: of roulette, and it's just it's so dumb. Yeah, it's

1209
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: for random, stupid reason. But I point out to her, Look,

1210
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: the red pays or red or black or otter even

1211
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 2: pay two to one, but you have zero and double zero,

1212
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: so it's not even odds. And then this group pays

1213
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 2: three to three to one, but it's one and four

1214
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,479
Speaker 2: chance of winning. So they're making money. And I'm going

1215
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: over all the math with her, and she listens to

1216
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 2: all the numbers and says to me, I don't know

1217
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: about the ratios of the math, but all I can

1218
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: tell you is I see people. I see the croupier

1219
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: taking off a whole lot more money than she's handing

1220
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 2: out to gamblers. That that's the takeaway, hear, the croupier,

1221
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 2: not the odds. Be the house.

1222
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 3: Don't bebo hit all time high the house. Yeah, have

1223
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 3: you ever hear anybody on social media talking about cbo ever.

1224
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 3: They love that no one's talking about them. So the

1225
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 3: other thesis that I have is trends with no friends.

1226
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 3: Uh huh, Okay, So I'm looking for trends because again,

1227
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 3: I run a huge social media site, right, So I

1228
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 3: if I have a choice between Navidi and sand Disk,

1229
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 3: everybody's talking about Navidio. You want something, I'm not saying,

1230
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 3: I know, same thing, same thing. So on stocks, I

1231
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 3: can look for tickers that are trending with very fair followers.

1232
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 3: No does not have to be here. I don't like

1233
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 3: small caps, so I'm like, no, I.

1234
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 2: Mean before it really goes up.

1235
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 3: So it's the one thing that Starctor tells and I

1236
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 3: have to AI. You asked me why I came back

1237
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 3: to Starctor. It's two things, AI and the fact that like,

1238
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 3: I can now code with clog code and so I

1239
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: can call both own engineers a little bit.

1240
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 2: Oh, this could take six weeks. I need it by today.

1241
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 3: Well again there's not today, but there's not six weeks, right, Okay.

1242
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 3: So there's that, and then there's the fact that we

1243
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 3: have all this data and we have a great community.

1244
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 3: So I wanted to come back and like see this

1245
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 3: thing through and we're and we're doing very well. The

1246
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 3: the issue is now I can explain to people and

1247
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 3: I can pull out the data to show people trends

1248
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: with no friends meaning I want to you want to

1249
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 3: find stocks that are trending that have very little.

1250
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 2: Discussion makes a lot of sense.

1251
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just intuitive meaning IBD. I learned on IBD.

1252
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 3: I love price relative strength. I've just added a layer

1253
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 3: to that that matches high price relative strength with low socials.

1254
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 3: It's almost like the Mooshe of Vegas. I'm trying to

1255
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 3: find the stocks that know even though I run a

1256
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 3: social media site, I'm like betting on the fact that like,

1257
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 3: they'll discover this in time.

1258
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 2: You should talk to Ben Hunt and what he's doing

1259
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: with the Persians because they're too they have a narrative

1260
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 2: then there too. But the combination of where the narrative

1261
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,400
Speaker 2: is just starting to take the tipic and where the

1262
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 2: trends is friends.

1263
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 3: That's why I so I give it away from quantify it. Yeah,

1264
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 3: I hate the quant side. I did visually see it

1265
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 3: from years of being a known quiet which there's you

1266
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 3: I don't even know.

1267
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 2: Matt, but but if you want AI to help you with.

1268
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got to catch up with That's awesome, But

1269
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 3: but he also sees the role a little darker than

1270
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 3: I see it. I'm a much more of an optimist.

1271
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 2: You and I both, Yeah, but when I want to

1272
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 2: know what's the worst case scenario, like when the tariffs

1273
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 2: were first rolled out, not so much losing the finger,

1274
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 2: but his piece the end of the Pass Americana is true,

1275
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 2: was the end point where if this really goes off

1276
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 2: the rails, this is how bad it.

1277
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 3: It's deglobalization, right.

1278
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 2: But he works out the details. Yeah, so great, But again,

1279
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 2: you and I are both a little more of it.

1280
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:16,919
Speaker 3: I'm much more simple. Right, If I see something going up,

1281
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 3: you want to that's my queue book. And then if

1282
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 3: it's a certain market cap, and then I check stocks

1283
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 3: and I go, no one cares. I love that. Then

1284
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 3: I need to tell a story. Everybody needs to tell stories.

1285
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 3: Stocks are stories, and some people are great at storytelling.

1286
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 3: The pounter guy, there's certainly. But again, the numbers eventually matter,

1287
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to find companies going up, right, and

1288
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 3: that's not complicated. But then I have other layers to it,

1289
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 3: and I need to understand the catalyst myself, like, if

1290
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 3: it's just something I'll never understand, it's hard for me

1291
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 3: to ride the waves. So if I don't really understand

1292
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 3: and use the product, the odds of me getting scared

1293
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 3: out of a trade are ninety nine percent.

1294
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:58,440
Speaker 2: So let's talk about you.

1295
01:05:58,520 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 3: So that's my index.

1296
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 2: Let's talk about your startups who are becoming degenerates. Your

1297
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 2: kids given social apps, zero commission trading, all the option

1298
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: stuff that's going on for your kids benefit. What sort

1299
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 2: of guardrails I don't know. If it's the product, regulation, educational,

1300
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 2: what do you wish was in place to protect them

1301
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:28,120
Speaker 2: that isn't there yet? And let's also add these are

1302
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 2: not miners. These are late twenties adults out of school

1303
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 2: for almost a decade, real people. What guardrail should they

1304
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: have to protect them from their own most instincts?

1305
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 3: Listen, we could argue that the bet we put our

1306
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: negative hat on it. It's like, you can go buy

1307
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 3: bullets at Walmart, So it's like, what is a guardrail?

1308
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 3: Right in a world where you can buy bullets and

1309
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:55,040
Speaker 3: you know everybody's got drones. So I'm like more like, okay, guys,

1310
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 3: if I hear that you did a parlay. We can't

1311
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 3: be related, so stop betting. Betting different than investing. So

1312
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 3: if Shane at Polly Market and they're partners of ours,

1313
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 3: if Shane or Tarika at Call she had pitched me

1314
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 3: those ideas at the same time that Robin had pitched

1315
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 3: me their idea, I would have passed. Why I don't bet.

1316
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 3: I think it's stupid, right, okay, Like I think it's funny,

1317
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 3: and I think prediction markets are news better than the

1318
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 3: New York Times. No offense because I like prediction markets

1319
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 3: because I don't have an opinion. I just look at

1320
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 3: the price and I go whether I believe it or not.

1321
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 3: I think that's the genius of it. But if poly

1322
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 3: Market and Call she went out to VC's and said

1323
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 3: we're the new news, their valuation would be a dollar right, okay,

1324
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 3: so we know the real story. They can't tell what

1325
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 3: they really are good at, which is news.

1326
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 2: And by the way, they're not great at news.

1327
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 3: I understand there is news. Good at news, it's.

1328
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 2: Probability of something happening, But I'd rather not.

1329
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 3: Read someone's opinion. I don't need to see Elon's finger

1330
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 3: on the news because that's a story. They're not the

1331
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 3: real story. Give me the numbers. I know it's fake,

1332
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 3: but I got a numbers. If Mondamie isn't ninety percent

1333
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 3: of my daughter's mad. But Rachel, here's what you do.

1334
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 3: Then bet the other side. Do you make eight time

1335
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: or put it's ten to one, ten to one. But

1336
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,560
Speaker 3: I would bet money on Mandamie. And if you really

1337
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 3: want to change how you think about the world, go

1338
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 3: help somebody on the other side who has a chance.

1339
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 3: Go put in the time. Go help Mark Cuban if

1340
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:19,080
Speaker 3: you really want.

1341
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,759
Speaker 2: To be I love what he's doing on the healthcare.

1342
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 3: But what I'm saying to my daughter, I said, call Mark,

1343
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:25,640
Speaker 3: I'll get you in touch with Mark. Do something. But

1344
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:28,280
Speaker 3: just complaining about the numbers that you see and the

1345
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 3: numbers were right, whether they whether they tipped it in

1346
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 3: this again, I don't want to get in all like

1347
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 3: the fraud and all the fake stuff about it. But

1348
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 3: the numbers is much e's than reading an opinion piece.

1349
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 2: I'm gonna Can I tell share something fun?

1350
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:41,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1351
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,400
Speaker 2: So there were some of the early bets about outcome

1352
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:49,480
Speaker 2: of the war and different events happening, and I said

1353
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 2: in a quarterly call, Hey, I don't really know who's

1354
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: putting We don't know who's putting these bets in. Yeah,

1355
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 2: but if you stop and think about it, if you're

1356
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: negotiating with another side, this being the syop, because you

1357
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: spent half a million dollars to move the outcome of

1358
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: something that's the least money the Department of Defense will

1359
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 2: ever spend, and anybody on this side is looking as oh,

1360
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:15,679
Speaker 2: they're they're really going to put boots on the grounds.

1361
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 2: A look at the track record. Here, here, here's a

1362
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 2: wallet that's ten for ten. Oh my god, we have

1363
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 2: to stop and think about You don't really know who's

1364
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 2: using this, who's betting this, who's manipulating? But we didn't

1365
01:09:30,280 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 2: that guy who got arrested, that was a throwaway.

1366
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,680
Speaker 3: That's it's still better than Russia and China using our

1367
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: social media.

1368
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm very and North Korea and I ran.

1369
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm not saying I'm for. I'm an investor

1370
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,520
Speaker 3: in poly market and call she personally at crazy evaluation

1371
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:50,560
Speaker 3: because I wouldn't have invested. I just chased it in SPVs.

1372
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:55,639
Speaker 2: The co founder of Calshi, the woman what's her.

1373
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 3: Name, I don't know, but I know that's a woman.

1374
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 2: I know she was a guest on the podcast is

1375
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:03,960
Speaker 2: she rites she was really good this three years ago.

1376
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 2: I shed never even thought to put money into it.

1377
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 3: So it's more academic than anything. It was academic it

1378
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 3: still is because there's very few people using these products

1379
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 3: for all the free presses. It's like Twitter. There's very

1380
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 3: few people using Twitter and the drain at this point. No,

1381
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 3: but I'm saying at the beginning it had a lot

1382
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 3: of power even though there weren't that many uses.

1383
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 2: It was it was, you know, it was a fraction

1384
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 2: of Instagram with TikTok so fraction.

1385
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 3: It's a fraction of the news. But I'd rather my

1386
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 3: son and daughter go to page two of poly market

1387
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 3: because you know what they're going to see, news that

1388
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 3: they didn't would never look at in the New York Times, saying,

1389
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 3: look at the election in Peru and now at least.

1390
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 2: I'll know the names Venezuela for that or Venezuela.

1391
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 3: So I'm super bullish for different reasons on prediction markets.

1392
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:53,560
Speaker 3: And I know there's like obviously.

1393
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 2: Money right into the Degeneracy index completely. How long does

1394
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: the DJN index run for us this short term thing

1395
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: or does this question?

1396
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 3: That's why I don't want to charge for it because

1397
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 3: I think I'm allt because Google and Apple are my

1398
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 3: biggest positions because they are the rails for the degenerated economy.

1399
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 3: They are the front facing tool of it.

1400
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: Apple of the phones and mobile.

1401
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 3: And Google because of the phones, and YouTube and the

1402
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 3: casino games all run on the app stores. The free

1403
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 3: games that you have, they make Amazon or face. Amazon

1404
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 3: just added at the beginning of the year because of

1405
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 3: robots Axons and.

1406
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 2: Not not Amazon Web Service because of robots.

1407
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's just you can't not own Amazon

1408
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 3: at this era in the generate economy because they are

1409
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 3: the center of it, robots, the degenerate economy. You have

1410
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 3: to any of the robot builders you like, because they're

1411
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 3: too early. I'm a personal investor in a few, but Aptronic,

1412
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 3: which is just massive. But again it's a personal You.

1413
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 2: Have any interest in what uh Elon is doing with Groan.

1414
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's a holding company, like I don't know

1415
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 3: what this position is kind of a round.

1416
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 2: It so so meaning Tesla is a holding company for everything.

1417
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 3: But is that going to be the entity that goes

1418
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,559
Speaker 3: public for No. But I'm saying to SpaceX, why does

1419
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,920
Speaker 3: he need two tickers? Like, again, I don't understand what

1420
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 3: the final being is, So why do I need to

1421
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 3: own some Elon holding company. I think I'm stupid. So

1422
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 3: you're betting on him, and you know I'd rather bet

1423
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:28,879
Speaker 3: on something I understand.

1424
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 2: I'm with you, I'm not I don't disagree. I'm trying to.

1425
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. Another recent ad is it's already doubled as Clear secure.

1426
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 3: You know Clear when you go through, it's so to me,

1427
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 3: if the world's degenerously, you need security. So it's like

1428
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 3: it's a clear Clear has been a home run. They

1429
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:44,920
Speaker 3: don't have a lot of tech, but the great brand.

1430
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah I thought they have tech is I.

1431
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 3: Think they license a lot of this every their own. Yeah.

1432
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 3: So again, once you dig into a story, my conviction

1433
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 3: comes like how much of this they own? But the

1434
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 3: hell of a brand that the company has been around

1435
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 3: forever and they have they lailed many fat and they

1436
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 3: can do so much more stadiums, the brand, Man.

1437
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:07,840
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? You go to wash a

1438
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 2: nick game, it's clearer, it's clear on the way in.

1439
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 3: That was my bet. It's just a clear trend. No

1440
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 3: one ever talks about it too, so it's a massive

1441
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 3: up trend. Broke out and you never hear people talk

1442
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 3: about it.

1443
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 2: If I use either CHASEEFI Reserve or MX, I want

1444
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: to say, PLAT you get a credit towards any travel

1445
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 2: and clear is just an automatic. It's no brainer.

1446
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:32,000
Speaker 3: Yes, what is it?

1447
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,440
Speaker 2: One hundred and fifty dollars a year. It's fantastic.

1448
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 3: My son would call me because that's the greatest gift

1449
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 3: you ever got.

1450
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 2: Man.

1451
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, when a twenty year old knows something

1452
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 3: and any year old knows something, those are a good trend. Yeah,

1453
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 3: you know that's a brand. Yeah, when it's just a

1454
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 3: twenty year old knows it, not a brand?

1455
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 2: Maybe catch them? Maybe it doesn't.

1456
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, CBOE I love it because they power the whole thing.

1457
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 3: You can't do this without CBOE. Cme the MRK you know,

1458
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 3: I yes, you know the New York stocking shame.

1459
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question of direct investing question

1460
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 2: before we get to our favorite questions that I think

1461
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 2: a lot of investors have a hard time with. I

1462
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 2: started on trading this, so I'm okay with losses. It's

1463
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,679
Speaker 2: a given. But if you say to somebody, I want

1464
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 2: you to put a little money into these ten or

1465
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 2: twenty stocks, half of them going to go out of business,

1466
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 2: maybe five or break even. You'll make money on a

1467
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 2: couple and maybe one's home run. How do you deal

1468
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 2: with that? Really fat head long tail?

1469
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Index? I'm so into indexing.

1470
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 2: No, I mean on your on your private seed state.

1471
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: Like most of the seed investments you're going to make

1472
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 2: aren't going to get you a greatful of your time.

1473
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 2: I am Oh, I'm wrong all the time.

1474
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 3: I'm to bearish on my industry, right, I never I

1475
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 3: believe it was a moment in time with ZERP. I

1476
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:54,040
Speaker 3: think it got the country through its unintended circumstances. We

1477
01:14:54,120 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 3: live in all these unintended circu consequences, right, yeah, or

1478
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 3: unintended consequences.

1479
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 2: Sorry, By the way, it's nicely wealthy. That happens a

1480
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 2: whole lot.

1481
01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 3: I am wealthy, just born at the right time, a

1482
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 3: lot of untended circumstances. SURP is a good thing, right,

1483
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 3: I'm not saying. I'm not saying I shouldn't be ashamed.

1484
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: But if you have assets, if you're if you're a

1485
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:14,599
Speaker 2: work and stiff, it's like I used to be. It

1486
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 2: was tough.

1487
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:17,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, s and p's at all time highs cash levels

1488
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 3: at all time high. If I hear those two things together,

1489
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:22,760
Speaker 3: what do I think of inflation? It's never been a

1490
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 3: better time to have assets, right, doesn't mean I don't

1491
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 3: know when it's going to end. I have cash and

1492
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 3: stars the double whammy. So I'm lucky. I am so

1493
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,960
Speaker 3: bearish on what I do for a living, meaning what

1494
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 3: value do I add in a world of six percent

1495
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 3: interest rates tying someone up for ten years, when I

1496
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 3: can go buy sand disk in the public markets and

1497
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 3: get six thousand percent in a year. I'm not saying

1498
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:51,360
Speaker 3: I'm smart enough to hold these things, but in a

1499
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 3: world where Robinhood and a thousand Robin Hoods are going

1500
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,599
Speaker 3: to bloom. If you're asking me my biggest bad public

1501
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 3: markets do the work. You have an analyst and CLO.

1502
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 3: You can go see beaten up. No one's following any stock.

1503
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 3: Everybody's momentum investing, Go find ten companies. So why would

1504
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 3: you do a startup investing? Every kid wants to be

1505
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 3: an angel investor. I'm like, dude, do it in the

1506
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 3: public markets. You have liquidity and you're not locking up

1507
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 3: your clients for ten years.

1508
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:20,719
Speaker 2: But you're not answering my question. Okay, which is how

1509
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 2: do you as an investor deal with the psychology of

1510
01:16:24,800 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 2: knowing most of your seed investments aren't going to work out?

1511
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 2: Is it just the nature of the beast?

1512
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 3: No?

1513
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:33,519
Speaker 2: Or does that weigh on you at all?

1514
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 3: No? I think it aligned with how I thought of

1515
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:39,440
Speaker 3: the world as as someone who believes their high integrity

1516
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 3: wishes who wants people to believe their high integrity for

1517
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 3: my kid's sake. And you know, the integrity of telling

1518
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 3: my investors that up front is the release meaning I'm

1519
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 3: not telling my investors we're going to be ninety percent

1520
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,759
Speaker 3: hit right. If you give me money, you're gonna hate

1521
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 3: me because you're going to think the idea that I love,

1522
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:02,000
Speaker 3: the dumbest idea, the robin.

1523
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: Quote unquote, yeah, dumbest idea.

1524
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 3: You are betting on me to hang thirty pieces of

1525
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 3: art in Howie's gallery did Larry David Gallery, and you

1526
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 3: will pick If I gave you the choice to invest

1527
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 3: in all thirty, you would pick the two that went

1528
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 3: to zero. So you're betting on me to to see

1529
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,920
Speaker 3: the world my way. And then I'm not telling you

1530
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 3: we're going to make a hundred times their money. But

1531
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 3: my job is to find one company that's a hunter bagger. Okay,

1532
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:30,559
Speaker 3: So so I have to know math, I have to

1533
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 3: do this. I have to have just get yelled up

1534
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 3: by malps when they read our quartery letters ago that

1535
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:38,240
Speaker 3: was the dumbest idea. I'm like, you're right, Like I'm embarrassed.

1536
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 3: But our job is to find a robin hood, and

1537
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:45,200
Speaker 3: we found many of them, you know, LifeLock, Robinhood, bee Hive,

1538
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 3: we got one called Alpaca again a trend within no face. Well,

1539
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:51,880
Speaker 3: a pack of powers, thousand robin hoods around the world.

1540
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 3: They're like the eight modern apex. So I'm saying, like,

1541
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 3: our job is to know what we know, take crazy

1542
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 3: bets and sell that to our LPs. Is like you're

1543
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 3: investing for ten years. This is like you know, it's

1544
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:07,720
Speaker 3: not as good as it was in twenty thirteen when

1545
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 3: rates were zero, and now it's a different game again.

1546
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 3: And I'm thinking, like with you've got clawed and you

1547
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 3: can do an you can analyze it stuck in like

1548
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 3: three seconds, like the the everyone's a CFA all of

1549
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,519
Speaker 3: a sudden if they want to be what a great

1550
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 3: time to be a public market investor, and yet everybody

1551
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:29,599
Speaker 3: wants to be a private investor.

1552
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 2: So again, so funny coming from you.

1553
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, in twenty twenty. I've been writing about this since COVID.

1554
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,559
Speaker 3: It's like public markets are amazing because there's so many

1555
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:42,360
Speaker 3: stupid people making dumb bets on robinhood and dislocation is everywhere,

1556
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 3: and it's only getting.

1557
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,799
Speaker 2: Worse, and the degenerate economy is going to continue driving

1558
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 2: this theme.

1559
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,679
Speaker 3: Yes, and I think most people should index, but everybody

1560
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 3: should learn how to pick stocks too. In this era,

1561
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 3: I got you.

1562
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so it's almost midnight. I only have

1563
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:58,600
Speaker 2: you for a few minutes more and you have to

1564
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 2: end up.

1565
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 3: At you tonight breaking. This is October Fast, October sixth,

1566
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:06,679
Speaker 3: coming back to New York. That's our big event.

1567
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: That's exciting.

1568
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, a thousand people on the West Side. I am

1569
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:11,840
Speaker 3: looking for October six If you want to come, hit

1570
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 3: me up.

1571
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:17,559
Speaker 2: Let's do our speed round. Five questions two hours, ten

1572
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 2: seconds each. I'm going to jump right into it, starting

1573
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 2: with boxers. Who were your early mentors who helped shape

1574
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 2: your career.

1575
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 3: I think part of I hate saying this. I didn't

1576
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:31,600
Speaker 3: have good early mentorships, so I really take pride in

1577
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,719
Speaker 3: mentoring other people because were.

1578
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,400
Speaker 2: Your later mentors. I hear Fred Wilson.

1579
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, you like people that I discovered like the mentorship

1580
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 3: came from the community. Being the mentor led me, like

1581
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:46,680
Speaker 3: stock Twits. Being a giver opened me up to get mentorship.

1582
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 3: I think young kids are not getting good mentors.

1583
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 2: So just pure karma karma. I love that. What are

1584
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,679
Speaker 2: some of your favorite books? What are you reading right now?

1585
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:55,840
Speaker 2: I know what you're reading next. What are you reading now?

1586
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 3: Yeah? I got your butt. I don't read.

1587
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,120
Speaker 2: You're on flights all the time. Do you do just movies?

1588
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 3: I'm so addicted to like HBO Amazon?

1589
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 2: So you're watching series I built.

1590
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:10,560
Speaker 3: I'm just very my next question, but hang on, so

1591
01:20:10,640 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 3: you're asking books. I still love the classic Shoetog for Business.

1592
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 3: You know Phil Knight's book. I loved Agacy's biography. I

1593
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 3: like stuff. I just I just my brain doesn't work

1594
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:21,920
Speaker 3: with books.

1595
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 2: Huh, that's really interesting. Tell us what you're watching on Netflix, HBO, Amazon?

1596
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 3: I just rewatched The Nick. Have you watched The Nick

1597
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 3: on HBO? Soderberg? Oh, it's about the nineteen hundreds, the

1598
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 3: Knickerbucker Hospital.

1599
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,759
Speaker 2: No, I did not show real season.

1600
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:42,760
Speaker 3: It's like surgery wasn't done until like barbers used to

1601
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:46,719
Speaker 3: do surgery. In nineteen hundred, all the rich oil guys

1602
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 3: started backing hospitals and that was the original tech. Surgery

1603
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,760
Speaker 3: was tech. And it's just an incredible period piece about

1604
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 3: the nineteen hundreds and soho in New York.

1605
01:20:57,439 --> 01:20:59,639
Speaker 2: Huh, I'll turn give us one more.

1606
01:21:00,680 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 3: There's very little good stuff on TV. I think Oaster

1607
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:03,599
Speaker 3: is pretty good.

1608
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 2: Can I tell you some HBO? We have that backwards? Okay,

1609
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 2: there's too much.

1610
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 3: I think I've seen it all. Have you?

1611
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 2: Some Landman?

1612
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 3: Great? But that's that's more like Harlequin. Romance kind of

1613
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,120
Speaker 3: series are fun to watch, and the kids like them too.

1614
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,240
Speaker 2: Okay, n you will because three body problem. If you

1615
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 2: want something a little.

1616
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 3: More, that's sci fi. I think I don't like sci fi.

1617
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:27,080
Speaker 2: You don't like sci fi? So you didn't watch an Spance.

1618
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 3: No, I didn't like that either. I try it and

1619
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:30,559
Speaker 3: I never get into it.

1620
01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:31,960
Speaker 2: Huh, that's interesting.

1621
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 3: I like Degenerous.

1622
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 2: How do you feel about U Spy? That sort of stuff.

1623
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:42,639
Speaker 3: I love them killing Eve killing. I can rarely follow it. Well,

1624
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:46,080
Speaker 3: I started saying it was good.

1625
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:46,759
Speaker 2: Wow.

1626
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, the British period piece. I love BritBox brick box,

1627
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 3: so the Crown, not Bridgeston. But BritBox is a great channel.

1628
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:00,839
Speaker 3: There's that Carter criteria for old movies.

1629
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 2: If you have BritBox, go back and watch what was

1630
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,439
Speaker 2: the name of that show? There was a show that

1631
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,120
Speaker 2: came out around the same time as Friends, only Coupling,

1632
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:16,560
Speaker 2: and it has teeth. It's I mean, everything from the

1633
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,920
Speaker 2: nineties is a little dated. But whereas Friends was kind

1634
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,799
Speaker 2: of milk toast and mushy, this has a sharp edge

1635
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 2: and it's British, so it's nasty and funny in a

1636
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:28,800
Speaker 2: way that only the Brits can do.

1637
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, so I'm a media fanatic, but not like

1638
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 3: I'm weird and I'm bullish on YouTube. Apple TV YouTube

1639
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,439
Speaker 3: is just great. I just love YouTube, all right.

1640
01:22:39,479 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 2: So final two questions. What sort of advice would you

1641
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 2: give to a college grad interested in either becoming a

1642
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,000
Speaker 2: seed investor or a startup entrepreneur.

1643
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think there's no sham of being a number two,

1644
01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 3: number three, or number four. So chief of staff is

1645
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 3: the new CEO. So go be someone's chief of staff. Like,

1646
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 3: don't worry about pay or title, worry about finding something

1647
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 3: that's working. This way, it's much easier to go work

1648
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 3: for a company that's just working. So go, like, ignore

1649
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 3: the title job, ignore the salary, find a rocket ship

1650
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:22,920
Speaker 3: and attach yourself. Whether it's Manscape, You're going to learn more.

1651
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 3: They're gonna be smarter people around. There's going to be

1652
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 3: you know, less aggravation, more work. But hey, like if

1653
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:34,479
Speaker 3: you're really serious, tell my daughter. It's like, if you're

1654
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:36,840
Speaker 3: really serious about this, it's going to take a lot

1655
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 3: of work, but go do it. If you're not serious

1656
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 3: to be a socialist, like it's okay, but like, don't commit,

1657
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 3: don't fool yourself, Like, go work for a rocket ship.

1658
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,600
Speaker 3: Otherwise who are you talking to? So like there's no

1659
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,639
Speaker 3: room anymore for these kids that like, if you want

1660
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 3: to start a company, do you know it's twenty four

1661
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 3: to seven, right? And if you and no one's going

1662
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 3: to like you? And if you want to be a

1663
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 3: number two, do you know when to take to be

1664
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 3: a number two? So I'm like, be honest, but like,

1665
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 3: go work for a company that's working.

1666
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the

1667
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:12,800
Speaker 2: world of venture and seed investing today that would have

1668
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 2: been helpful sixty five seventy years ago when you were

1669
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 2: first getting started.

1670
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 3: No, I think I luckily got the right mentorship, entered

1671
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 3: at the right time. I think you have to do

1672
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 3: it for a while. You got to get a crop.

1673
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:27,440
Speaker 3: Like if you're gonna go do wine or weather matters,

1674
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 3: And same with tech, Like what matters with tech is

1675
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:31,360
Speaker 3: you have to get you If you were of the

1676
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 3: Google Glass era and not much worked, right, if you

1677
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 3: were in the BlackBerry fun two thousand and eight, no

1678
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:38,600
Speaker 3: go baby.

1679
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,160
Speaker 2: Soles unless you could have been an early investor in

1680
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 2: Apple or when they were public.

1681
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:47,599
Speaker 3: I think the public markets are underappreciated because seed investing

1682
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,320
Speaker 3: became cool because of Zuckerberg and because of a few

1683
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 3: of these rocket shit.

1684
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 2: I thought seed investing or venture investing really became cool

1685
01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: in the nineties and then in the two thousands it

1686
01:24:57,920 --> 01:24:58,840
Speaker 2: became evaded.

1687
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 3: No, it's never been more.

1688
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 2: It's never been more loved today.

1689
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:06,560
Speaker 3: Oh I go see these young kids. It seems like

1690
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:08,599
Speaker 3: they know nothing and they all want to be venturing

1691
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 3: invest I'm like, yeah, have you ever bought a stock?

1692
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:14,360
Speaker 3: Like you get wounded? Like day one, like stock drops

1693
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 3: twenty percent? Like go open a Robinhood account and learn

1694
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 3: how to invest. Like if you don't know the public markets,

1695
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:21,760
Speaker 3: what are you doing? In the private.

1696
01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 2: Markets got to graduate to private.

1697
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the most guys, the guys who are

1698
01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 3: interested in me, and I'm not saying they still are

1699
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 3: the crossover investors, the people that like knew the public

1700
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 3: markets and then started doing private And I think that

1701
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:34,200
Speaker 3: was my edge. I knew how pricing worked market. Whether

1702
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,800
Speaker 3: I was right or wrong, I understood how markets worked,

1703
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,720
Speaker 3: and the seed investing the prices made sense to me

1704
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 3: relative to public markets. Now the prices in private markets

1705
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:43,640
Speaker 3: make no sense to me.

1706
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 2: Howard, it is always a blast when you come in.

1707
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 2: You're bucking Bronco. I never know where we're going to go.

1708
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 2: You are not Larry David. You are the Zach gallifanakish

1709
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:58,559
Speaker 2: I love of finance. It was I should put two

1710
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,640
Speaker 2: ferns in here just for your arrival. Thank you, by

1711
01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:04,040
Speaker 2: the way, for being so generous with your time, and

1712
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 2: good luck at the Cash Tags Awards tonight. If you

1713
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,679
Speaker 2: enjoy this conversation, well check out any of the six

1714
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 2: hundred we've done over the past twelve years. You can

1715
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 2: find those at iTunes, Spotify, Bloomberg YouTube, wherever you get

1716
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:23,720
Speaker 2: your favorite podcasts. I would be remiss if I didn't

1717
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,439
Speaker 2: thank the crack team that helps put these conversations together

1718
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:31,679
Speaker 2: each week. Alexis Noriega is my overworked video producer. Sean

1719
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: Russo is my researcher. Anna Luke is my podcast producer.

1720
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 2: I would also like to just drop a little pits information.

1721
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:46,320
Speaker 2: The paperback of How Not To Invest comes out today.

1722
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 2: By the time you hear this, it'll be out already.

1723
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 2: What else do I want to say other than.

1724
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 3: You look good. Thanks.

1725
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 2: I'm Barry Dhelts. You've been listening to Masters in Business

1726
01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:01,440
Speaker 2: on Bloomberg Radio