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Speaker 1: Kay, Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast, a

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Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the

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Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible

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Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session two thirty three of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy of Black Girl's podcast. We'll get into the episode

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Speaker 1: right after a word from our sponsors. Dr orio Oh

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Speaker 1: is back this week to chat all about the most

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Speaker 1: recent episode of Insecure, and boy do we have a

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Speaker 1: lot to chat about. In case you've missed her before

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Speaker 1: here on the podcast, Dr Donna Orioo is an author,

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Speaker 1: international speaker, and certified sex and relationship therapist in the Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Metro area. She's the owner of a nod

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Speaker 1: Right and specializes in working with black women on issues

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Speaker 1: related to colorism and texturism and its impact on mental

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Speaker 1: and sexual health. She's also the author of Cocoa Butter

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Speaker 1: and Hair Grease, a self love journey through hair and skin.

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Speaker 1: This episode does contain spoilers, so if you haven't watched

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Speaker 1: the most recent episode, you definitely want to save it

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Speaker 1: for later. Dr Orio Oh and I chatted about Lawrence's

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Speaker 1: new life in San Francisco, all the conversations he and

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Speaker 1: Condola should be having but aren't, how they might move

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Speaker 1: forward with their relationship, and our predictions for what we

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Speaker 1: might see from them as the season progressive. We of

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Speaker 1: course want to hear your thoughts as well, so share

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Speaker 1: them with us on social media using the hashtag TVG

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Speaker 1: in session. Here's our conversation. All right, and we are

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Speaker 1: back now with episode three of the final season of Insecure.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we have Dr oriole will backed with us

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Speaker 1: to chat about all the things that we have seen

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Speaker 1: unfold in this episode. So yes, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for chatting with us again, because there are clearly lots

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Speaker 1: for us to once again chat about. I feel like

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Speaker 1: we say that every time we get together, every single time,

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Speaker 1: but it's because it's because it's true. There's so much

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Speaker 1: going on here, so we had not really seen Lawrence.

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Speaker 1: Have we seen him at all since the season started?

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, when he drops her off about your car,

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Speaker 1: but thanks for the ride, thanks so much. So we

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Speaker 1: finally have like an in depth episode. This is kind

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Speaker 1: of like a Laurence centric episode that we have this week.

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Speaker 1: So it starts off with that, like him dropping her

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Speaker 1: off scene, and then we see he goes back to

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Speaker 1: his apartment and stuff is all packed, and so he

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Speaker 1: is obviously has taken what we knew he had taken

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Speaker 1: the job in San Francisco, and he's obviously preparing to move.

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Speaker 1: And so we see a little bit later that it

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Speaker 1: unfolds that he's in San Francisco now and it has

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Speaker 1: started a new job at what it looks like it's

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Speaker 1: like a VC for Is that the impression you got?

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Speaker 1: But no, it definitely is not best by and it

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Speaker 1: definitely looks like I'm we can be a little shady.

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Speaker 1: It's fine, but it definitely looks like he's in some

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Speaker 1: kind of a VC position, which I don't think it

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Speaker 1: was the impression I got from what he had been

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Speaker 1: doing before, Like I knew it was something in the

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Speaker 1: tech space, but I don't think I knew that he

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Speaker 1: was like in VC, I'm just like, go ahead, so

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Speaker 1: pick these people with the right right. Very interesting. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing that I have noticed, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this will continue for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the season, but it feels like we're getting very segmented

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Speaker 1: episodes in terms of like who's involved in each episode,

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Speaker 1: and so typically it feels like there is much more

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Speaker 1: of an ensemble. We see a little bit going on

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Speaker 1: in lots of people's lives, whereas it this season, it

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Speaker 1: feels it is more, you know, one or two characters

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Speaker 1: that you're focused on it. So it feels like, of course, again,

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Speaker 1: this is a Lauren centric episode, and so what do

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Speaker 1: you make of the fact that, or do you make

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Speaker 1: anything of the fact that it seems like they're feeling

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Speaker 1: separately almost this season, you know, I started to think

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Speaker 1: of it in two ways, so like one, maybe this

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Speaker 1: is about COVID, and it's like, well, these are the

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Speaker 1: people that we're gonna have on set today, keeping the

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Speaker 1: set small, keep things safe, because I think that sometimes

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Speaker 1: I forget that we're in the pandemic, and I have

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Speaker 1: to remind myself that we are that just because the

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Speaker 1: world is opening up, or at least our world the

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Speaker 1: United States in particular, is opening up. Doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: is true for everywhere else, and that some people are

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Speaker 1: taking it super seriously as they should. So part of

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Speaker 1: it is That's what I was wondering. On the other end,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking that this is the final season, This

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Speaker 1: could be when we start seeing people going their separate ways,

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Speaker 1: that we are separating from the show, so we are

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Speaker 1: going to be segmented off. But also that the characters

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Speaker 1: are going in their own direction, and that sometimes we

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Speaker 1: move apart from other people. That for our time we

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Speaker 1: may be on parallel journeys with other folks, but at

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know, sometimes you make a right turn, they

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Speaker 1: make a left, and now you're going in you know,

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Speaker 1: opposite directions, and that that's okay, but you have to

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Speaker 1: be okay with where the journey life takes you, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know. It also made me think about like this

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Speaker 1: feels very much like what happens after a breakup in

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Speaker 1: a friend group, right that you know, like exactly I

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Speaker 1: get you in the voice because you're my friend first, right,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, maybe we aren't in the same

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Speaker 1: social scenes anymore, and I mean we kind of see

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Speaker 1: this under we'll talk about it at the birthday party,

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Speaker 1: you know, but it does kind of feel like what

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Speaker 1: happens is segmentation and separation that happens when you know

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Speaker 1: there's mutual friends, but you probably are seeing them separately

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Speaker 1: as opposed to all together. Now. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: there's something to be said about honoring yourself and being like, look,

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Speaker 1: I can't be around us, but I still need space

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Speaker 1: from this person, so I'm not going to be able

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Speaker 1: to be where they are. Yeah. I think that that's

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Speaker 1: a really important boundary to set after a breakup, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: even a friendship breaks up. Agreed. Agreed. So we see Lawrence.

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Speaker 1: He's in his San Francisco life, and he clearly is

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Speaker 1: on a first date with someone in a restaurant and

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Speaker 1: beautiful sister in the restaurant, and he gets this text

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Speaker 1: that the baby has been born. So, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: did you get a sense of what the time frame

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Speaker 1: was for when we're seeing him in San Francisco. No,

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Speaker 1: I was wondering, like, Okay, how long do be here?

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Speaker 1: Because I think that him and East were long distance

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Speaker 1: for minutes and it seemed like they were trying to

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Speaker 1: close the gap. And I'm just like, Okay, so you're

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Speaker 1: on this first date. How much time has passed? Like

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Speaker 1: where are right? Or when are we? I guess would

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Speaker 1: be the better question, but clearly we at least nine

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Speaker 1: ten months A well, no, because it seemed like the

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Speaker 1: baby came early, right, because when he got to the hospital,

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Speaker 1: which was super awkward, Condola says like, oh, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: he came a little early, and so it seemed as

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Speaker 1: if like the baby was like ahead of its due date.

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Speaker 1: So I'm wondering how much it happened because they did

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Speaker 1: not mention. They didn't, so I would guess between seven

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Speaker 1: and nine months would be my guests. Yeah, like a

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Speaker 1: sort of right, exactly exactly. So yeah, so we see

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Speaker 1: he gets this text message and he has to like

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Speaker 1: awkwardly in the date, and he clearly jumps on the

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Speaker 1: flight and go straight to the hospital. So my first

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Speaker 1: concern was like, oh, you like took the baby and

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Speaker 1: didn't even wash your hands, So that wasn't a real

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Speaker 1: fleg to me. I'm like, you can't touch No, you

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Speaker 1: can't touch a fresh baby fresh off of an airplane

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Speaker 1: without washing your hand first. That was the first thing

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Speaker 1: I thought I used to see the way I used

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Speaker 1: to carry these babies back in the day, I mean

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Speaker 1: before COVID. I'm washing up to my elbow. This is

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Speaker 1: me washing up to my elbows, someone like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: hold this baby, let me wash myself. And he couldn't

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Speaker 1: even be bothers with some sanitizer. So what was your

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Speaker 1: take on the reception that he got when he walked

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Speaker 1: into the delivery room and her mom and her sister

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Speaker 1: were there. It was both awkward and disrespectable, like character

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Speaker 1: and I love, but I'm just like, yo, that's why

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Speaker 1: the baby looks like that unnecessary disrespectful. And the thing

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Speaker 1: is the disrespect don't even stop there, and it's almost

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Speaker 1: like passive aggressive, except this kind of aggressive aggressive comments.

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Speaker 1: And for me, this shows several things. And the main

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Speaker 1: thing that it shows is that they have not been

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Speaker 1: on the same page and have not had the conversation

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Speaker 1: that they need to have to make sure that their

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Speaker 1: families and friends are bored with what is, because otherwise

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Speaker 1: I would expect to see some boundaries being laid out,

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Speaker 1: like you can't say no more ship like that, that's

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Speaker 1: not okay. It very much gave the I am upset

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Speaker 1: with this person and I have been talking to my

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Speaker 1: mother and sister about him, and now they hate him

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Speaker 1: too because I am not in a good place with him.

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Speaker 1: Word that whole part. And and the thing is, I

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Speaker 1: can see this entire situation from both sides, right because

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I believe the power of the plury verse

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Speaker 1: as Dr Zeleca Clark would call it, And I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: multiple truths can hold the same space. So I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at it like, y'all dead wrong over there, But so

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Speaker 1: would you do? All people involved have been dead wrong

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Speaker 1: almost the entire dad go on episode. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's up with y'all. Yeah, So I

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Speaker 1: think in that exchange, we see the first sign that

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Speaker 1: there has probably been little to know communication between Condola

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Speaker 1: and Lawrence, like for this entire pregnancy, because the baby

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Speaker 1: has been named Elijah Mustafa and clearly Lawrence is not

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Speaker 1: on board with that. And we see like after he

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Speaker 1: leaves the hospital, he goes to stay with Chad because

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Speaker 1: he hadn't had time to make any arrangements to where

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Speaker 1: he was going to sleep, and he's talking with Chad

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Speaker 1: about the fact that they had kind of tossed around

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Speaker 1: casually some baby names, but hadn't really settled on something,

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Speaker 1: and he it seems like, had to fight to actually

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Speaker 1: have his last name be placed on the birth certificate.

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Speaker 1: And so I think this was the early indication that

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Speaker 1: it just seems like Condola and Lawrence really haven't done

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Speaker 1: any kind of talking. And so I just love to

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Speaker 1: hear your thoughts about, ideally or in a nice healthy

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Speaker 1: set up, what might communication have looked like between Condola

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Speaker 1: and Lawrence over these past couple of months. It's funny

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Speaker 1: because I've been having this conversation and therapy. I was

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Speaker 1: just like, well, are you having a Biggie conversation or

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Speaker 1: you having a Tupac conversation? You know, They're like, wait what,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like, well, when Biggie died, was there

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Speaker 1: any question? No, we knew exactly what happened. Nobody was

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Speaker 1: questioning nothing. We say that Biggie died and this is

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Speaker 1: what happened, and that's the end. When Tupac died, how

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Speaker 1: many questions crowd everybody's seeing the man on vacation that

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Speaker 1: they swear up and down, they say, you time at

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Speaker 1: the gas station. And then there starts to be just

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Speaker 1: like bubbling of uncertainty around whether or not Tupac is

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Speaker 1: actually pasked. This is not the conversation that they are having.

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Speaker 1: They're having two pat conversations where nothing is clear. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: on the same page about anything. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: speculation and there's a lot of assumptions, but there's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of clarity. And I think that some of

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Speaker 1: it is in what is my roll versus how do

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Speaker 1: I separate the child from the mother, and how do

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Speaker 1: I interact with this person who told me that they

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Speaker 1: don't want a child and I decided to keep this

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Speaker 1: child when I know that they didn't really want one.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, to me, these are conversations that you

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Speaker 1: needed to be having. I'm like, in a pregnancy, usually

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Speaker 1: the child is not present until after they are born,

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Speaker 1: which means that there's probably some time for some talking

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Speaker 1: or something of that nature before they arrived. And it

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Speaker 1: seems like they have done no work before the arrival

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Speaker 1: of this child and are now almost playing like communication

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Speaker 1: catching so to me would look like y'all having a

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Speaker 1: conversation back then, like, okay, so if we are keeping

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Speaker 1: the child, what our expectations for how the child is raised,

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Speaker 1: what type of schools we might want the child to

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Speaker 1: go to. How we're gonna do feeding schedule, how are

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Speaker 1: we gonna do visitation schedule? Well, baptism is important to me.

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Speaker 1: Let's have a conversation about that. These are conversations that

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Speaker 1: they clearly did not have. And when they're off with

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Speaker 1: one another about what they desire, there's no conversation. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem like they actually circle back around. It's been like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: both of them are keeping these like resentments and hurts

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Speaker 1: and feelings in and not having productive conversations with one another. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like it's very clear that there have

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Speaker 1: been very little to know conversations between the two of

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Speaker 1: them about like what happens once the baby gets there.

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Speaker 1: But it also feels like neither of them have really

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Speaker 1: done their own work to kind of make peace with

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Speaker 1: this situation, right, and of course, the it sounds like

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Speaker 1: a very difficult situation. You know, it doesn't sound like

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Speaker 1: Lawrence really wanted Condola to go through with the pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: Condola very much wanted to go through with the pregnancy

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Speaker 1: and even told Lawrence, you know, like you can be

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Speaker 1: involved or not as you want, right, And so of

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Speaker 1: course there's some lingering feelings, I am sure for both

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Speaker 1: of them, and I think that their inability or lack

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Speaker 1: of doing the work to kind of make peace with

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Speaker 1: all of that that happened is what is at least

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Speaker 1: a part of what's preventing them from being able to

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Speaker 1: have these conversations about what happens once the baby gets here. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that either of them have actually taken

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Speaker 1: the time or at the very least, I don't think

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Speaker 1: he has taken the time to really grieve, and more

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Speaker 1: that the way he envisioned having a child is not

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Speaker 1: the way he is having one. He mentioned it like,

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Speaker 1: you know that this is not what I envisioned, This

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Speaker 1: is not what I planned, This is not how I

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Speaker 1: wanted this process to go. And I'm just like, yes,

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Speaker 1: it is not what you wanted. Have you taken the

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Speaker 1: time to actually sit with that, to grieve it? Because

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Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you need to get over that, blah blah blah, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, actually, you need to go through that.

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Speaker 1: You need to feel that, experience it. And that goes

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Speaker 1: for both of them to greet their relationship, ending to

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Speaker 1: greet the reasons why their relationship ended, for Lawrence to

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Speaker 1: greet that his relationship with Issa is over, and how

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Speaker 1: that has impacted how he was even thinking about having

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Speaker 1: a child in the first place. I think all of

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Speaker 1: this was super important for them to do. I just

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Speaker 1: don't know that they did it. It's almost like they're

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Speaker 1: just trying to pick up and move forward without actually

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Speaker 1: processing that this is not exactly what they envisioned and

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Speaker 1: without circling back to some of those original conversations, because,

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Speaker 1: like you said, the whole idea of what you can

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Speaker 1: be as involved or not involved as you like, I'm

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Speaker 1: looking like that's all well and good when it's extra

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Speaker 1: early and you're thinking that things might work out. And

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Speaker 1: if that was in the mindset that it was said in,

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Speaker 1: that's a very different conversation than yeah, we're not getting

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Speaker 1: back together and this is what I actually need now,

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Speaker 1: Like you're allowed to pivot, but I'm wondering, are you

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Speaker 1: communicating about the pivot or are you still moving with

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Speaker 1: the same energy as before, And we know they're still

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Speaker 1: moving with that same energy as before. Yeah, because she

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Speaker 1: mentioned it. Yeah, I mean again, I just don't think

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Speaker 1: that they've had any conversations in back to our conversation

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Speaker 1: from a couple of weeks ago about Oh, I really

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Speaker 1: hope they're gonna show us like what Molly and Issa

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Speaker 1: did on like their roles are kind of repairing their friendship.

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Speaker 1: Maybe in future episodes will see this, but will we

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Speaker 1: get to see like what has happened that got us

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Speaker 1: to the place where Condole and Lawrence looked like they're

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Speaker 1: not even having any conversations in terms of preparing for

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Speaker 1: this child who will be brought into the world. That part,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, that's all I'm looking for the communication

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Speaker 1: pivot because if it really was okay that he said

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Speaker 1: keep me posted versus what he was saying to Chad,

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Speaker 1: which is she's not leaving me out of ship, up,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking like, was she leaving you out or were

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Speaker 1: you choosing not to? And I'm sure Condole was feeling like, oh,

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Speaker 1: now you want to be super involved, right, because he

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Speaker 1: probably hasn't been like going to any doctor's visits. You know,

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Speaker 1: clearly they have not even settled on a solid name.

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Speaker 1: They have not even had a conversation about the baby

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Speaker 1: taking his last name, and so I am sure that

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Speaker 1: Gondola felt very like, oh, okay, now, you got all

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Speaker 1: this energy after the baby has been born, but that

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Speaker 1: energy wasn't present before exactly y'all didn't talk about that's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: and just the expectations were never said. So it seems

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Speaker 1: like he's not meeting expectations, but it also seems like

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Speaker 1: expectations were not safe and vice versa. He didn't say

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Speaker 1: what he wanted, but he's expecting her to know. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, well, the both of you are keeping

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Speaker 1: this lovely secret of your expectations while demanding that the

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Speaker 1: other person meeted or telling them all the ways in

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Speaker 1: which they are inadequate at meeting it. I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: kept it a secret. How can anybody meet anything? It's

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Speaker 1: an unreasonable ask. Yeah, And we see it really kind

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Speaker 1: of bubble over after the baby is born. Then Lawrence

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Speaker 1: is like doing this l A to San Francisco kind

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Speaker 1: of flight, commuter flight kind of thing, right, Like he's

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Speaker 1: trying to come down, yes, trying to come down on

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Speaker 1: the weekend, you know, trying to be there for the

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Speaker 1: weekends and you know evenings for like doctor visits and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. And we see a text from Condola

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Speaker 1: saying apparently Simone who is Tiffany and Derek's baby is

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Speaker 1: having her first birthday party, and so she asked Laurence

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Speaker 1: should we go to the party together with Elijah, and

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Speaker 1: so at the party, though, we see this kind of

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Speaker 1: bubble over, right, Like we see this bubbling over of

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Speaker 1: that they clearly just are not on the same page, right,

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Speaker 1: So he takes the baby to feed the baby supposedly

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Speaker 1: milk or formula, and then he has like fed the

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Speaker 1: baby carrots, and so the bubble up is like you

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Speaker 1: introduce solid foods, which people I think, no, maybe not

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Speaker 1: like it's a big deal because you are only supposed

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Speaker 1: to introduce things very slowly because kids that age like

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Speaker 1: can have allergic reactions. All kinds of things can happen,

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Speaker 1: And so I didn't feel like her reaction there was

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Speaker 1: like unrealistic or unreasonable. But I do think the timing

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Speaker 1: of it, like being at a birthday party, spoke to like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's happening? Are we even aware of our surroundings right now? Yeah? Honestly,

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Speaker 1: that whole thing was just so cringe worthy at that party,

350
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Speaker 1: and I was just like, this is one of those

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Speaker 1: moments where you use the word gas lighting and it's

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Speaker 1: actually said in the proper context. So here we go.

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Speaker 1: It's gaslighting as hell to call someone dramatic. Why is

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Speaker 1: mommy being so dramatic? This is a dismissal of somebody

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Speaker 1: else's thoughts and feelings around the situation in favor of

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Speaker 1: your own. This is the way to be little someone

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Speaker 1: to be like, oh gosh, or being so dramatic. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know, most people are not actually being dramatic. They're

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Speaker 1: actually being responsive to what is going on in the

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Speaker 1: environment at the time. So I'm just like their lack

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Speaker 1: of communication and that he is using baby talk to

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Speaker 1: dismiss feelings around feeding the baby carrots. He doesn't think

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal, but he doesn't even know why

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal. He's not asking questions, he's just

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Speaker 1: leading with Well, the doctor said that we can introduce

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Speaker 1: it after four months. And I have decided that I'm

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Speaker 1: going to let this child eat baby bush of unknown

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Speaker 1: origins at a party for one year old who is

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Speaker 1: able to eat a lot more stuff than our baby is.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just gonna do it because I feel like it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not going to communicate with you because it's

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Speaker 1: my child too. More from my conversation with Dr Orio

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Speaker 1: after the break. Yeah, so it feels like this is

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Speaker 1: like the power struggle that happens right now, Like in

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Speaker 1: this copared situation, now the baby has kind of become

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Speaker 1: a pawn for all the things we are not saying

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00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: to one another. M hm. That part, like the baby

378
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Speaker 1: gets caught in the middle of their lack of communication,

379
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Speaker 1: and I'm just like, well, what is the need of

380
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Speaker 1: the child? Y'all want to argue back and forth, but

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Speaker 1: y'are not arguing back and forth in the right way

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Speaker 1: in my opinion. I'm like, if you're gonna argue back

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Speaker 1: and forth, if you're gonna have a discussion, then make

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Speaker 1: sure that you're focused on the thing that you're supposed

385
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 1: to be focused on. Lawrence is focused on his pride.

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Speaker 1: He wants to look like a good father, and he

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Speaker 1: has repeatedly said that throughout this entire episode. He seems

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Speaker 1: to be very interested in the outfics. I think that

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Speaker 1: he is interested in being a good father, but I

390
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: don't know that he understands what that takes. And he

391
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 1: is in a space of my presence is enough, Like

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Speaker 1: my presence is the president. I'm like, friend, and presence

393
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Speaker 1: is bare minimum and I think that for me, part

394
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Speaker 1: of the issue is that we get into a space

395
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Speaker 1: of what bare him on parenting looks like. And too

396
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: many people are given a lot of credit for bare

397
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Speaker 1: minimum ship, and particularly it is you know, no te

398
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: no sha, no lemonade. Men are often given high accolades

399
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Speaker 1: for bare minimum ship, like, oh, I didn't run away

400
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,920
Speaker 1: when somebody had a baby. That makes me a good father. No,

401
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 1: I am there. I don't contribute and I don't help,

402
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: but I am there that this is enough, this makes

403
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: them a parent or I am trying. And that's the

404
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: part that like really rubs me wrong. When I hear

405
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 1: people talk about how they're trying, I'm just like they'll try.

406
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm trying to eat. I haven't eaten. I'm

407
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: still starving. I'm trying to eat. I'm looking like, well,

408
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: you didn't eat them. If you're trying, you haven't done.

409
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: And being able to delineate the difference, I'm like, your

410
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: intention is nice, your impact is that yeah? I mean

411
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Speaker 1: I feel like that was really shown. You know, like

412
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Speaker 1: we see him putting the crib together, and I'm saying, like,

413
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Speaker 1: why do you even have a crib in san Francisco,

414
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 1: like the baby is not the baby don't live there.

415
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: You clearly have not spoken to him. Yeah. Yeah, I

416
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Speaker 1: don't know if he was thinking he was gonna be

417
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: able to take the baby for a weekend, but clearly

418
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: that was not going to be happening, at least anytime soon.

419
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Speaker 1: I'm looking like a baby that is exclusively breastfed. It's

420
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Speaker 1: not going anywhere, right, They're going nowhere, Like where did

421
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Speaker 1: do you imagine this baby? And you know, part of

422
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Speaker 1: me wondered if that was also a part of him

423
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Speaker 1: trying to like make this a reality, right, Like if

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Speaker 1: having the crib in his living space kind of made

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00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: it more real to him, because before it's very much

426
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Speaker 1: like a bachelor pad, you know, like supermodern and all

427
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: this stuff. And so I wondered if him putting the

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00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: crib up was also away for him to kind of

429
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: stay connected to the reality of the fact that the

430
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: baby exists. Yeah. Yeah, And you know I was I

431
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: was wondering, like, Okay, that's one way to do it.

432
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: You know, you put the thing in the space, and

433
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: that sort of helps put you back in this mindset.

434
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: And I guess I'm in the space wondering like, well,

435
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 1: if you can visit once a week, how often can

436
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: you call? I mean, both of them got I phones.

437
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: We don't save it, we don't sae that they don't laugh.

438
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 1: So we've seen that they got this phone, and I'm

439
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: just like, are you face timing? Are you calling? How

440
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: else are you trying to be connected? And I think

441
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: for me, the question is, and this comes back to

442
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: their communication, is like, well, exactly where are you saying

443
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: that the mother ends and the baby begins and vice versa?

444
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 1: Right where does the baby begin and the mother end?

445
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: And I'm asking this question in particular because there's this

446
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: idea I don't have to talk to you. It could

447
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,160
Speaker 1: just be about our child. And I'm just like, if

448
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: your child is nonverbal and is one pent dependent on

449
00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: the person who is their active, everyday caregiver for the

450
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: their survival, so on popular opinion, that makes this child

451
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: of parisite. If the child is currently in a parasitic form,

452
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,719
Speaker 1: don't you have to talk to the host? And I

453
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: feel like this is something that should have been established

454
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: while Kendola was pregnant. So I've seen it on the internet.

455
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: Some people are like, he don't owe her no conversation.

456
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm just like, actually, actually, you can't not talk to

457
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: the parents of your child. I don't know how you

458
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 1: can parent with someone and not speak to them. You

459
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: will never get on the same page if all of

460
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: your conversations are happening through a child, right, especially a

461
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: nonverbal child. Yeah, like that maybe ain't got no words

462
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: here all I gotta cries, which means that y'all them

463
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: being not on the same page, it's going to affect

464
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: this child. And if they continued in this manner, then

465
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: at some point it's gonna be tell your mom, tell

466
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: your dad, bop bop up. And that's not The child

467
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: should never have to go between between two adults who

468
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: just don't want to get their communications ship together because

469
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: your desires at this point they do not supersede your child.

470
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 1: Not like that. If y'all love the adults act like

471
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: adults communicate with one another. So I'm like, yes, there's

472
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: certain things that it's like, well, medical information, it's like

473
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: how much of this should be kept private, like you know,

474
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: like she's seeing elactation comes oment versus how much of

475
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: this should be shared. I'm going into labor, you know.

476
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: So I'm like, for me, there's clearly a misstep in

477
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: the communication, and some of it seems to have been

478
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 1: created by previous dynamics of keep me posted. I'm like,

479
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: keep me posted is I'm gonna let you know when

480
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: major mouthstones happen, but otherwise don't bother you. That's what

481
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: I hear, and keep me posted. Then this idea of

482
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: you being left out of ship, I'm looking like, well,

483
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: you say keep you posted, you didn't say involved, and

484
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: if you wanted to be involved, phones work two ways. Yeah,

485
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know, again, I think we haven't

486
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: seen the backstory, but I think we can imagine that

487
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: if he had been more involved, he likely wouldn't have

488
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: gotten the text that said, oh, the baby has been born.

489
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: He probably would have gotten a text on the ways

490
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: of the hospital or my water just broke, or however

491
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: she ended up going into labor. You know. But again

492
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: she said, I'm contined, right, So to me, that indicates

493
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: that he has not been super involved, yeah, and has

494
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: not been seeking that out for him, right. But there

495
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: definitely seems to be blamed on both sides. She's expecting

496
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: more involvement and hasn't spoken to him more involvement. She's

497
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: just keeping him posted and I'm just like, well, why

498
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: would you say be as involved or as uninvolved as

499
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: you would like? And then not me if you don't

500
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: mean it anymore, say something I think the person like, look,

501
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: I would really like you to be more involved. How

502
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: involved would you like to be in this process? What

503
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: does that look like for you? What would it sound like?

504
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: What would your expectations of my communication with you look like?

505
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: What about your communications with your child? I'm just like,

506
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: there was no communication there, and you know, it made

507
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: me think what did they individually think this process was

508
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: going to look like? Right, like, because I do think,

509
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: you know, after having two little ones, like your idea,

510
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: especially the first one, your idea of like what it

511
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: will take to like actually like raise this baby and

512
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: keep him alive and keep yourself going like, it's vastly

513
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: different than the reality of that situation. And so I

514
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: can definitely see her maybe going into and thinking in

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: him too, maybe thinking, you know, like, okay, I will

516
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: do this, you know, come down on the weekends whatever,

517
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: and then the reality of the situation being very very different.

518
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and I think we saw that in that

519
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: split screen they were showing right where she is actively parenting,

520
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, getting up every two hours or however, off

521
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: on with the baby, and he's like out on a date,

522
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: screwing a new chick, like kind of moving on with

523
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: his life. And I think that we happish shepagne. Yeah,

524
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: so that was I think very illuminating. It's weird because

525
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's a there's a part of me that

526
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: has so much joy in seeing this man work because

527
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: he sat on his side, asked on the couch. You know,

528
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: we saw him get a job at Best Buy and

529
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: now he's working. He's in his zone and he's loving it.

530
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 1: And to me, in a lot of ways, speaks to

531
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: the emotional and time sacrifices that a lot of women

532
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: have to make that are not necessarily reciprocated and don't

533
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: have to be reciprocated. It's why they talk about women

534
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: being mommy tracked at work. You know that because you

535
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: had a child, that now that must mean that you're

536
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: less dedicated to your work and that you're gonna be

537
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: more distracted and less able to deliver. And we know

538
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: this is not true, but when you're living in a

539
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: male centric society, especially one that loves capitalism in the

540
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: way that it does, it rewards people for work. It

541
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: rewards men for work in particular. So it's just like,

542
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: these are the untold pieces of caring for a kid,

543
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: especially a newborn. We're not talking about where the undue

544
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: burden is going to lie. Especially when we're thinking about

545
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: who has the breast that are going to nourish this child.

546
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: That person has to be very available. Who carried this child.

547
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: It means that your your body has already gone through

548
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: all these changes. You're flooded with all pheromonts that say

549
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: answer your child cry, that say be present and you maybe,

550
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: I mean, she could have been having postpartum or whatever

551
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: else going on with her. And we've heard that non

552
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: carrying parents often feel disconnected from the child, you know,

553
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: in any type of coupling. So it's like, if you

554
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 1: didn't carry the kid, there's a level of disconnecting in

555
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: and of itself. You know, that's even for people who

556
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: are married or in a committed relationship with one another.

557
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: So I'm like, y'all are not in a committed relationship

558
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: and you have horrible commu unication and you don't even

559
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: love in the same this long distance on top of

560
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: it's one thing compounding on top of the next And

561
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know that he even thought

562
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: that he would need to change anything in his life

563
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: in any significant way to be the type of father

564
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: that he was imagining himself being. In his hands, whatever

565
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: that picture looked like, Yeah, whatever that looks like. I

566
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: don't think that he really thought about it. So while

567
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: we were watching the show, you know, after we finished

568
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: watching it, we were texting, and you said that you

569
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: feel like Laurence really is suffering from the nice guy

570
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: syndrome repeatedly through this episode. So tell us more what

571
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: you mean by that. That it was killing me because

572
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: I don't like to think of him. But the nice

573
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: guy syndrome is when we were like, oh, this person

574
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: is a nice guy, but usually they're the type of

575
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: gas like and manipulate and her feelings. But because they

576
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: don't hit you, because they don't outright call your names

577
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: or I'm gonna smack you, blah blah blah, then we

578
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: think of this person as a nice guy, as worthy

579
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: of our time, attention, and affection, when that may not

580
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: be true. And the nice guy piece within the fatherhood

581
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: scope is oh, I'm willing to see my child is

582
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: It's like the nice guys doing bare minimum ship to

583
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: be with anybody. But the nice guy father is doing

584
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: bare minimum ship and calling himself a great dad, and

585
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: he gets pat on the back by one of his

586
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: family members like I see you, you here, you're here.

587
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: That's just like is that right? Right? We are crushing

588
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: people under the weight of the lowest expectations that we

589
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: can manage, and we don't not give them room and

590
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: space to rise to the occasion. And the only person

591
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: that was daring him to rise more was Chad. Derek

592
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: was the chat that he was talking to what's her

593
00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: face us? Yeah, But just like the way that he

594
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: like pull him to the side, like, yo, can you

595
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: help me move these boxes? Like let me not embarrass

596
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: you in front of here, but let me pull you

597
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: to the side and let you know that what you're

598
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: doing makes no dance sense. And even in the conversation

599
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: before that, like when you know he's staying in a

600
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: due house and it's just like, y'all need to talk

601
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: about this, and I'm just like I did like that

602
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: he was almost like the centering person because I think

603
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: that sometimes people don't get that person that will give

604
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: them the truth and give it to them gently. I

605
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: think that people are very invested in brutal honesty, and

606
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm just like, honestly does not need to be brutal,

607
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: especially not if you're looking forward to be effective. So

608
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: the type of honesty that he's giving him and telling

609
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,959
Speaker 1: him about, you know, talking as well as listening and

610
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: trying to be clear and stating expectations and all that

611
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: other stuff, and at the same time being like, Yo,

612
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 1: you got this anger about this situation, this resentment about

613
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: it that you're gonna have to work out. I'm just

614
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: like these things I thought were implaid in the conversation,

615
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: even if they were not explicitly saved. I was just like,

616
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: this is a really good friend. Some sort of pull

617
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: you to the side and just be like, yo, get

618
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: it together, calm down. This doesn't help because I'm just like,

619
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,359
Speaker 1: for me, you can't not acknowledge your co parents if

620
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: you're actually co parenting, because it seems like they have.

621
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: He almost has dreams of being a single parent where

622
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: Candola does not exist except in the moments where he

623
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: is not with his child. That's very interesting, and that

624
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: doesn't seem right good or fair, not to her, but

625
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: also not to his child. And I think that that's

626
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: part of what you know, like Kiki Palmer's character as

627
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: well as Candola really responding to and her family overall.

628
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: But I think that also, don't be talking about the

629
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: person that you procreated with because you don't want to

630
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: look at God damn for proprocreating with them. That's just

631
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: I think it was important that Derek be the one

632
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: to deliver that because he's also like the only other

633
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: father that has been a main character, right, and so

634
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 1: some of what he's offering is from his own experience. Now,

635
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: clearly he an Tiffany are in a different situation because

636
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: they're a married couple, but there's still something unique about

637
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: him having the perspective of being a father to talk

638
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: about Okay, you know, this is how you're gonna like

639
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: end up messing up your kid and like messing up

640
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: this situation if you don't start thinking about these things differently. Word.

641
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: And the thing is, even if they like married or

642
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: not married, everyone should be having these conversations when you're

643
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: bringing new life, and if you're not going to communicate

644
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: with one another, we should really be thinking about how

645
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,439
Speaker 1: we are pro creating with and you should think about

646
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: it before you have sucks because that is the idea

647
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: one of the things that could resolve. That's the ideal time.

648
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, otherwise, you know, an't know is always on

649
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: the table. So we further see this blow up after

650
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: again he has been doing the frequent flyer miles and

651
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: they have had a discussion about him being able to

652
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: take the baby overnight once he comes to l A.

653
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: So it sounds like he has made arrangements to like

654
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: ren an airbnb or something down the street and you know,

655
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: just have the baby himself. And he gets there and

656
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: the baby's fussy, you know, as babies are, and she

657
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: tries to take the baby to comfort him, and then

658
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: they have this blow up around what's gonna happen and

659
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: you don't think I can take care of my baby,

660
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 1: and it ends with her saying you can't take the baby.

661
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 1: I don't trust you. He says, you have blown up

662
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: my life by basically having this baby. I mean. So

663
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: again we continue to just see things escalate now to

664
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: this point where he can't even take the baby overnight,

665
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: and he has accused her of blowing up his life.

666
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: And so we've talked already a lot about like clearly

667
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: there's communication missing. But this goes back to my earlier

668
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: point of it feels like there has been so much

669
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: like work on themselves and them as a unit that

670
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: that has not been done, and so much resentment that

671
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: it feels like it would be difficult to even have

672
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: this conversation with one another to get on the same

673
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: page in terms of parenting word. I'm like both of

674
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 1: them needed to be in therapy to really like process

675
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: all the changes that happened, and then something joint with

676
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: a mediator or something where they could talk about and

677
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: lay out the parameters of what it is that they

678
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: were both looking for, and they just did it. When

679
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: she straight up said I don't trust you, I'm just like,

680
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: boom fly, it's out there now, that ideal way, but

681
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: it's out there. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's like completely out there.

682
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: And he probably should have said it back because he

683
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: clearly don't trust her niece. He trust her with a child,

684
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: but doesn't trust how she might use the child. Right

685
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: Like with that whole sequence abound going to the birthday

686
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: party and it's just like, oh, is she asking me

687
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: on a day that I'm just like, probably not ask

688
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: But it's almost like he's thinking that she's going to

689
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: use the child as a plull way to get back together.

690
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: And she's in the space of just like, look, I

691
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: don't trust you, and I'm looking like, why should she

692
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: trust you? Do? What have you done proven yourself to

693
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: be so trustworthy? The communication is lacking. I'm like, we're

694
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: seeing it in the text message through it says call me.

695
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: It's it's just called me, And I'm just like, I

696
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 1: don't know if the phone call happened, but I'm going

697
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: to assume not because they were still having a conversation

698
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: about something that it seemed like they weren't even on

699
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: the same page with. And it also seems like she

700
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: needed a break. And she said sure out of the moment,

701
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: almost like a sense of like tired, I'm exhausted, Yeah,

702
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: let me just whatever, let me just go for it,

703
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: and then thought differently about it when it was time,

704
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, for the stoffer to be taken, and she's

705
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 1: just like, what what what? Women? I don't actually trust

706
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: me you And considering how he reacted to her the

707
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: whole carrot situation, I don't know that I would trust

708
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: more From my conversation with Dr Oriole after the break

709
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that it is important. At

710
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: least I have to kind of remind myself about the

711
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: history that they had even before she got pregnant, right, Like,

712
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: they weren't together that long. They decided that they actually

713
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: weren't a good couple right together, so they broke up

714
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: before she even found out she was pregnant, and so,

715
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like really being able to

716
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: have some of these difficult conversations, I don't think that

717
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: there was enough groundwork and enough history with them to

718
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: be having some of these conversations. And now they've been

719
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: forced because the baby is here, right and so you know,

720
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: again it was not what they planned, but this is

721
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: the reality of the situation. But I think the reality

722
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: is also that they don't know each other that well,

723
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: and so when we're talking about trust, then I think

724
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: that that plays a factor that has to be created

725
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: over some time and effort. And it feels like there

726
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: maybe has been enough time, but definitely not enough effort,

727
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: especially since the pregnancy. That part, like they could have

728
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: had almost the better part of a year to really

729
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: get into building trust with one another, to building communication

730
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: that is also reliable. Because we have to also think

731
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: about all the things that can break trust any time

732
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: you say you're going to do and then you do

733
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: not do. You are breaking trust with someone when it

734
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: is small and fragile and barely there. You can completely

735
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: break faith with them. So you say you're gonna show up,

736
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: and work gets crazy and you're tired and you need

737
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: a break, so you decide not to go. You're breaking

738
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: trust and you're saying what is prioritized for you. And

739
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: she doesn't have that choice. She didn't have a choice

740
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: about whether she is too tired to show up. And

741
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: I'm like, grant her choice right in the beginning. I

742
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: want to keep the baby, and you can be as

743
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: involved or not involved as you to be. That is

744
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: a choice. But this is why I'm like, y'all didn't

745
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: have a conversation that pivoted y'all away from this Lizard

746
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: fell sort of way of we're gonna parent this child

747
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: like this. I'm just like y'all needed more communication and

748
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: y'all didn't take it. And for me, that was just yeah,

749
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: it really was said. And then we see after this fight,

750
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: he clearly goes back to the airport and goes back home,

751
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: and then there's like turbulence and stuff on the flight,

752
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: and it looks like he thinks he might die in

753
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: a plane crash. Right, we know those near death experiences

754
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: have a way of kind of shaking people up and

755
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 1: making us reconsider, you know, our priorities and what's important.

756
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: It looked like after he survived this, because it was

757
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: just turbulence, he lands and has a change of heart

758
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: and calls Gondola to basically say, you know, I'm sorry

759
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: and this isn't working. How do we move forward from here?

760
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: And I like that for me, that shows like, oh,

761
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: this man got some growth, He's a person that will

762
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 1: now maybe he gets it and he can apologize and

763
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: they can move forward in a different direction. I feel

764
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: like that was very just telling. At some point, you've

765
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: got to be like, what's worth it more the relationship

766
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 1: that you're saying that you want to have or your price.

767
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: So what do you think the moving forward could look

768
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: like for them? I think that it could look like

769
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: a whole lot more conversation. I'm thinking that he might

770
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: move back. If you really want to be involved in

771
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: your child's life, it is usually more simple if you

772
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: are living in the right That is what I know.

773
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: So as a person whose father is going like almost

774
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 1: half the year. I can tell you that it's easier

775
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: to have a relationship with him when we're in the

776
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: same line zone and in the same city. So I

777
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: think that that might be in their future as well

778
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: as fully war and very communication about like what they

779
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: like to see for their son, how they want to

780
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: make sure that they're interacting with each other. I'm hoping

781
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: that it means better communication between them and an easier

782
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: relationship between them, one where it's not full of like

783
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 1: resentments or anger, at least not in the same way

784
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: and certainly not the type that has been building up

785
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: over so many months of unmet expectations that were never stated.

786
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that it means that there will have more

787
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: conversations and that he'll be more communicative, that he'll probably

788
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: reach out to them and nurture things with his baby

789
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: mama and his son the same way that he's sort

790
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: of nurturing this relationship and what's going on with the

791
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: new clients that he decided to sign. The interesting parallel

792
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: You're right, kind of both being born at that time, Yeah,

793
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: because I'm just like, well, a lot of the skills

794
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: that we have at work, we could carry it to

795
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: our personal lives and yeable, very transferable skills, and I'm

796
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: just like, well, transfer those skills. But the difference is

797
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: that your son doesn't, you know, while he has some,

798
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: he has no ability to properly see a user tell

799
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: a cell phone, which means that you have to be

800
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,839
Speaker 1: the one to actually follow up and reach out. You

801
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: have to be the one to actually go talk to

802
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: his mother. Yes, she will talk to you, but you

803
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: also have to talk to her. Indeed, So I'm hoping

804
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: that this means that it's going to be more communication,

805
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: and hopefully not so much because text does not have

806
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: the text so much so much as lost yeah, so

807
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: much as lost in text message. So a couple of

808
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 1: other things that I wanted to make sure that we

809
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: chatted about, some funny and something just like I wonder

810
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: what you're thinking. So one, how hilarious was Kelly when

811
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: Lawrence asked about like, oh, how is everybody else in

812
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: your cycle? Clearly he is trying to ask about everyone

813
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: that I associate. I give it. That's how That's how

814
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: you talk about all of my people are living in

815
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: This is the only way to respond when your friends

816
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: ex asked about how they're doing, and you know, they're

817
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: trying to get it like, oh they're struggling. Clearly they

818
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: are not. They are living their best life ever, even

819
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: if that is not the truth. That is the only

820
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: way that you were to respond, like every one night,

821
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: I was doing awesome, it's swimming well. They are linked

822
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: in their abandon I am truly blessed to be in Spain.

823
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: So when when we set up the birthday party and

824
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: when we saw you know, the scene of the birthday

825
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: party happening, what I was imagining what's gonna happen was

826
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: that this was gonna be when Issa like sees Condola

827
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: and Lawrence together with the baby and like all of

828
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: that fall out. But we see that Molly and Issa

829
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: are not even actually at the birthday party, and so

830
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: what do you think happened there? Do you think that

831
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: they were invited? Do you think that they chose not

832
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: to go because Lawrence was gonna be there? Like, how

833
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,799
Speaker 1: do you think that all played out? Honestly, I was

834
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: trying to figure that out myself because I'm like, well,

835
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: y'all are y'all are the closet? Right? We see who's

836
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: close to who was even within the front group, which

837
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 1: is not a problem but I would have expected them

838
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: to be there unless it was if you don't have

839
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: a kid, don't come, because we did see a lot

840
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: of parents there, so I was like, I don't know

841
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: if that was the vibe of the space, like Okay,

842
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: bring your kid, if you got a kid, please come through.

843
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: If you don't, don't come, or even if they already

844
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: had a pre conversation and arrangement understanding, like hey, I

845
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: just broke up with and I can't be in space

846
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: with And maybe Molly decided to support Issa and be

847
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,400
Speaker 1: there for her knowing that Candola and Lawrence we're going

848
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: to be at this party. I don't know. I'm wondering myself, like,

849
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: why weren't y'all dare Yeah, there was a part of

850
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: me in the same COVID obviously, you know, but there

851
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: was also a part of me that wondered, like why

852
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: Condola was on the guest list. I mean, we do

853
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: know that she works with Tiffany, or at least has

854
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: in the past, but we also know that Issa is

855
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: her girl, right and so to me, unless like you're saying,

856
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: like it was like a kids and parents party and

857
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: maybe they did something separate for like other friends or whatever.

858
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: But I I think I would struggle with the idea

859
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 1: of inviting somebody else that I know has this history

860
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: with somebody who's like a close friend of mine or

861
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: you know. It also occurred to me, like with what

862
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: you're saying that what if it was because Tiffany remembers

863
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: her own struggle and knows that Candola is a single

864
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 1: is a single parent well essentially in a lot of ways,

865
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: So maybe she invited herself that she could be in

866
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: space with other parents who might at some point, you know,

867
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: y'all do play dates and all that stuff. So I'm

868
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: wondering if that was a factor at all and her

869
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: reasoning behind inviting Kendole right, right, because it does sound

870
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: like they both got invits. Right. The message from Condola

871
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: to Lawrence said, did you see Derek's Evie or whatever?

872
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 1: Do you think we should go together with Elijah? So, yeah,

873
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: you're right, though it could have been a way that

874
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: maybe that may have been a factor, like, oh, this

875
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: would be an opportunity for Condola to maybe meet other

876
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: parents or whatever. Yeah, you don't know that, we don't know,

877
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: but we do know he said Molly were not there,

878
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: and that that to me like stood out because in

879
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: a friend circle that operates the way we've seen them,

880
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: you would expect that they would be there. Yeah, I'm

881
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: just like, uh, wait all that maybe we will see

882
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: that because again we don't know what timeline we're on, right,

883
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: we don't know, like what is happening. Where does the

884
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: friend group stand at this point in time? Like we

885
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: really don't know the word. I'm just like, was uh

886
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: fashion show? Was that on the same day as this,

887
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, no, because they were at the

888
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: fashion show Kelly and wait I didn't remember and Kelly

889
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: and said to me, there, I remember seeing Molly there.

890
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: I see now I gotta go rewatch see because I

891
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: have rewatched it, and I was just like, they're not here,

892
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, like, was it on the same that

893
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: would have been interesting? I don't know. Maybe they will

894
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,879
Speaker 1: tie it all together for us at some point get

895
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: to address like why they were right. This is all

896
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,919
Speaker 1: us just speculating, y'all. We don't really know. Can I ask?

897
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 1: Because I know that we are we're about to be.

898
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: I know that you'll be on that rap up because

899
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: you know you'd be like, I ain't trying to take

900
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: up all your day, but I wanted to address how

901
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: everyone is calling Condola everything but Condola, Canola oil. I

902
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: don't seen that one. I don't I don't seen all

903
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: and I want people to stop at question themselves on why,

904
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: like why do we feel it's okay to call her

905
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: everything but her name? And do you do this to

906
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: actual people in your life? Now? That's I can't. I'm

907
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 1: not gonna like front too heavy on it. She's a

908
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: character and I'm saying this because I know there has

909
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: been some strife about what character is in the past

910
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 1: couple of weeks from that first episode, but I just like,

911
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: I find it to be colossally disrespectful to call her

912
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: everything but her name because you don't like her. So

913
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: now it's like she becomes no longer a person of

914
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: worth or note to you, and she gets to lose

915
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 1: her name in the process. And to me, I'm just like,

916
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, funny joke, yes, but also why, right, Like,

917
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,479
Speaker 1: what what joy do we get from from tearing down

918
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: a black woman? And for me it sounds like white

919
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: supremacy running his head because I'm just like, that's not cool.

920
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: To me, that's not cool. Yeah, And I'm trying to

921
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: remember at what point did this start. I feel like

922
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: this didn't start until after she announced she was pregnant,

923
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: that people were not calling her Candola. I mean, I'm

924
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: sure some of it is coming from, like people just

925
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,760
Speaker 1: really want to root for Issa, right, She's our main character.

926
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: We know that she maybe wants to be with Lawrence,

927
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: even though we may not be sure that that's the

928
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: greatest idea. You know. So some of it, I know

929
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 1: people is identifying with like, oh, this is a barrier,

930
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: so to speak, getting in between that relationship. But Lawrence

931
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 1: is just as responsible in this, and we just keep

932
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: calling him Lawrence, right, you know. So, so what has

933
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: led to this whole like changing her name to whatever

934
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: else besides Candola? I get to thinking about, like how

935
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 1: often we find that thing to be sort of disrespectful, right,

936
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 1: Like how people will mispronounce your name or misspell it

937
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: in an email and we are intended by that because

938
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: it feels like they don't see us. It feels disrespectful,

939
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: it feels hurtful. It's like they're saying that we're less

940
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: than something, and we're watching it just go on and

941
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: on and on, all over Twitter and all over these

942
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: other spaces. But we tend to do this, particularly to

943
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: black women. I think that this is for me a

944
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: space where we have to consider why. And I say

945
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 1: this as a as a first gm firstborn person with

946
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: I mean, my last name is oreo oh. And how

947
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: many people have told me I'm just gonna call you oh,

948
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: and the removal of my name for their own comfort

949
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 1: and for their own ease, or as a joke or

950
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: to be whatever it is that they wanted to be,

951
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: with no regard to me at all as a whole

952
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: person who has the autonomy to say that, no, this

953
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 1: is actually my name and let me help you pronounce

954
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: it right. So I'm just like, for me, this is

955
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 1: a white supremacist tactic of making someone less than what

956
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: they are so that you can hurt them with no

957
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: impunity to yourself. And she drives the Mike y'all. She

958
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: drives to make and you know, somebody gonna be like,

959
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: it's like, but it could be right. It's a TV show,

960
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: but a again, it is just an opportunity to think, like,

961
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: to just think about why we are doing some of

962
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,320
Speaker 1: the things that we are. That's all just an invitation

963
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,760
Speaker 1: to consider All words matter, and there's always a kernel

964
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: of truth and just good jokes are told with a

965
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: kernel of truth. The reason that we we connect with

966
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 1: Insecure so much is because a lot of us are

967
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: actually and you know, we are. We are identifying ourselves

968
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,479
Speaker 1: and these characters in the way that we move through

969
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,760
Speaker 1: our own lives. Some of us are parenting with somebody

970
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,959
Speaker 1: that we would rather not parent with. Some of us are,

971
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, trying to repair friendships that have gone asunder.

972
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: Some of us are you know, We're trying to live

973
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: our best life. We're trying to glow up love love,

974
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: and we're not quite sure if we are compromising or

975
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: if we're compromised. We've had these conversations in regards to Insecure,

976
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, these conversations actually do matter outside

977
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 1: of the space. So I'm just like, I just wanted

978
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,320
Speaker 1: to be careful, to be mindful at the very least

979
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 1: about what it is that we're saying, and why we

980
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: are saying the things that we're saying. Why did we

981
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: make it okay to move in this direction. I just

982
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: think that it's it's important for us to know. Agree, agreed.

983
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate that we are going to wrap up because

984
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 1: I have other things to do and I'm sure that

985
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: you do too. We rap alight right, rap up, queen.

986
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: We got to, We got to bring it into a close.

987
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: But we of course will be back throughout the season

988
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 1: recapping the important parts and continuing to invite you into

989
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,359
Speaker 1: these conversations around some of the themes that might show

990
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 1: up in our own lives. It's always a pleasure catching

991
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: up with Dr Orio Will to chat about one of

992
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: my favorite shows. To learn more about her and her work,

993
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,239
Speaker 1: be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy for

994
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash Session to thirty three, and

995
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: don't forget to text two of your girls and tell

996
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: them to check out the episode as well. Additionally, another

997
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: episode that pairs nicely with this one is Session one

998
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: eleven Considerations when co Parenting. It's a great listen for

999
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: more context about what kinds of things make co parenting successful.

1000
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 1: If you're looking for a therapist in your area, be

1001
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for

1002
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want

1003
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic or just be in

1004
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: community with other sisters, come on over and join us

1005
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: in the sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the

1006
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: Internet designed just for black women. You can join us

1007
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: at community dot therapy for black girls dot com. Thank

1008
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 1: you all so much for joining me again this week.

1009
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

1010
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,359
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care.