Speaker 1: Hello, My name is Ja Sconcepi and I Mersday Night
Speaker 1: and welcome back to x ray vision of the podcast
Speaker 1: when We Dive be your favorite shows, movies, comics and
Speaker 1: pop culture coming to you from iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 2: Where we bring you between two and three.
Speaker 1: Episodes a week, certainly Tuesdays and Thursdays, and maybe another
Speaker 1: day potentially Wednesday, sometimes Friday.
Speaker 3: Over any guests. Almost have a Monday. Take a rest
Speaker 3: on Monday. It's the beginning of the week, guys. In
Speaker 3: today's episode, guys.
Speaker 4: We drop our Penguin episodes every Monday.
Speaker 5: Oh that's a right, leave this to day, leave that in. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: come in, you just come out.
Speaker 4: Guys.
Speaker 5: There's an episode every single day. You could want it,
Speaker 5: aren't you. Oh boy?
Speaker 3: On a Monday, you can listen to us talk about us,
Speaker 3: Cobb and Beautiful, Vic Mom, Cob, Johnny big ZDVD, all
Speaker 3: of them, bag Zb, Sophia Gigante who will be my
Speaker 3: Halloween costume?
Speaker 5: So there you are. Actually, if you are a podcast.
Speaker 3: Listener who wants to listen every day of the week,
Speaker 3: guess what we got you.
Speaker 5: Basically every day of the week.
Speaker 3: Almost every day of the week, you may hear an
Speaker 3: Extra Vision podcast if you keep your eyes trained to
Speaker 3: your feed. And in today's episode of Extra Vision, which
Speaker 3: we'll be releasing on Tuesday, I think.
Speaker 6: In the previously on Tom Hollanden's and Day, we're very
Speaker 6: happy with The Spider Man for script, which is exciting,
Speaker 6: and we're gonna talk about Lionsgates bad bad, not good
Speaker 6: terror year at the box office. We're also going to
Speaker 6: talk about Amazon's God of War TV show, which is
Speaker 6: also not having a great year.
Speaker 1: In the airlock, Oh my gosh Wow, Episode one and
Speaker 1: six of AGAs that we're going to talk about, and
Speaker 1: in the back batter we're gonna maybe discuss familiars, so
Speaker 1: this might get cut.
Speaker 2: That's previously on.
Speaker 1: First up, tough year at the movie theater, particularly for
Speaker 1: lions Gate picture Baby, which is out over half eight
Speaker 1: billion dollars, folks. Creas a very tough time at lions Gate,
Speaker 1: beginning with director Eli Ross historically reviled adaptation of the
Speaker 1: Borderlands video game series titled Borderlands, which lost a ton
Speaker 1: of money gross less than dollars in the US.
Speaker 5: Why did they? Why did they make it? Pg? Thirteen.
Speaker 5: I'll never understand.
Speaker 2: To come see it as they could.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: But guess what, guys, I got a secret. In America,
Speaker 3: a child can go to an R rated movie if
Speaker 3: someone buys them a ticket. That is not the case
Speaker 3: in any other country. In England, you have to be
Speaker 3: eighteen they will be iding you. But here you could
Speaker 3: make a popular rated movie, as they have done with
Speaker 3: The Joker, et cetera, The First Joker.
Speaker 5: But yeah, and we and there's so many more.
Speaker 1: As a quick aside, we must note that it has
Speaker 1: been reported in various outlets, including Wire Entertainment, that ticket
Speaker 1: sales for The Wild Robot Robot have been seeing a bump,
Speaker 1: and this is being attributed to teens sneaking into Terrifier
Speaker 1: three after buying tickets to Wild Robot.
Speaker 5: I am proud of.
Speaker 3: The children for continuing the important tradition of sneaking into
Speaker 3: cinematic releases that you are too young to But yeah,
Speaker 3: this was a really bad year, so they had Obviously,
Speaker 3: board Lands was expected to be a massive money maker,
Speaker 3: huge franchise.
Speaker 5: It was a flop.
Speaker 3: Then they had The Killers. Never let go the halle
Speaker 3: Berry movie The Crow.
Speaker 5: I enjoyed it, but nobody else did.
Speaker 3: Whitebird, which was a sequel to Wonder, and of course,
Speaker 3: they were the studio that faithfully chose to pick up Megalopolis.
Speaker 5: I have seen it. I don't know what they were thinking,
Speaker 5: but wild so it was.
Speaker 3: Not going well for them. Their string of flops has
Speaker 3: essentially meant that they have lost six hundred and ninety
Speaker 3: two million dollars this year. Maybe they're going to try
Speaker 3: and do some kind of tax evasion. That seems like
Speaker 3: what happens whenever these companies lose money. But it has
Speaker 3: seen their owner Lion's space Gate lions Gate Entertainment not
Speaker 3: One Word, which owns eighty seven percent of lions Gate
Speaker 3: One Word Studios, has seen it shares for thirty four percent.
Speaker 3: This Yes, so they're gonna need some big hits next
Speaker 3: year because this was a rough one.
Speaker 1: This is they are attempting to kind of spin off
Speaker 1: the various assets under the larger corporate umbrella. Not a
Speaker 1: good time to release a series of flops. But looking
Speaker 1: at these titles, start with making a good movie. That's
Speaker 1: kind of always the secret. It's kind of always the secret.
Speaker 1: Listen that doesn't a good movie doesn't ensure success, but
Speaker 1: it surely doesn't. It doesn't hurt because then you get legs.
Speaker 1: Then you get streaming, then you get all these other
Speaker 1: forms of income that can come in. You get rentals
Speaker 1: because people will say, hey, that was actually good, Well
Speaker 1: I didn't see it in the theater, I'll watch it
Speaker 1: some other way. If you release a bad movie, it's
Speaker 1: going to continue to be a bad movie that people
Speaker 1: are not going to want to watch as it matriculates
Speaker 1: down the different kinds of content streams.
Speaker 2: So just make a good movie.
Speaker 5: I will say the caveat for that.
Speaker 3: When I watched The Crow in the cinema, I did
Speaker 3: think it felt like it could be number one on Netflix.
Speaker 3: You know when everyone just watches a bad movie because
Speaker 3: they want to talk about it. And then like l
Speaker 3: magazine is writing about The Crow and all these random
Speaker 3: like magazines that are not in the geek space because
Speaker 3: people are watching it so much on Netflix.
Speaker 5: So Lionscape, maybe you can get a good second window deal.
Speaker 3: I also feel like Megalopolis potential for people to want
Speaker 3: to watch at home. I will say the movie itself
Speaker 3: was not for me, but the final like ten minutes
Speaker 3: are so hilarious. They include a line and a moment
Speaker 3: that are so hilarious. I would encourage everyone to watch.
Speaker 3: But yeah, onto a movie that's likely going to be
Speaker 3: way more popular, which is a Spider Man for sadly
Speaker 3: not a lions Gate movie. They will not be making
Speaker 3: their money back on that.
Speaker 1: Tom and Sindia have read the script for Spider Man
Speaker 1: four and while they say quote it needs work, but
Speaker 1: the writers are doing a great job, they're also tremendously excited.
Speaker 5: I thought that was very sassy comment.
Speaker 2: A very sassy comment.
Speaker 1: And the promo has begun early in the life cycle
Speaker 1: of Spider Man four, but this is it's positive news.
Speaker 5: This is a real movie worthy of fans respect. I
Speaker 5: like that. I'm interested in what that means.
Speaker 3: Destin Daniel Kretten, we love him short term twelve Shang Chi.
Speaker 5: I think this was his Sorry.
Speaker 3: About Kang makeup movie, So I'm very excited for that.
Speaker 3: I think, Jason, what is your biggest prediction for this movie?
Speaker 5: What's it going to be about? Oh?
Speaker 2: My gosh, what is my breateest?
Speaker 1: My biggest prediction for this movie is how does it's
Speaker 1: going to be all about a more street level Spider Man?
Speaker 1: And I think, as Holland has said, he's expressed his
Speaker 1: desire most recently in Comic book dot Com of getting
Speaker 1: Miles Morales somehow into the world.
Speaker 2: I think we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Start ourselves down a road where Tom Holland can exit
Speaker 1: the stage via death and Miles can take over. So
Speaker 1: I think that whether it happens in that movie or
Speaker 1: it sets the stage for that, I think we're moving
Speaker 1: towards that.
Speaker 5: I think that best case scenario is.
Speaker 6: Peter is a teacher and he's teaching Miles, and they
Speaker 6: end up coming together, and Miles looks up to Spider
Speaker 6: Man but doesn't know.
Speaker 3: Peter is Spider Man, so has this jeweling kind of relationship,
Speaker 3: almost like Superman Clark Kent. He's a teacher as a mentor,
Speaker 3: and he Spider Man is a mentor. And yeah, the
Speaker 3: rumors were in those old, long ago Sony Leaks. This
Speaker 3: is law from a long time ago, if you're a
Speaker 3: youngster listening to this. But in the long ago Sony Leaks,
Speaker 3: the rumor was that the deal that Marvel made with
Speaker 3: Sony was that they would have to do three live
Speaker 3: action Peter Parker Spider Man movies before they could have Miles.
Speaker 3: So let's see if that's true, because that could mean
Speaker 3: we could get introduction of Miles here. But yeah, I'm excited.
Speaker 3: I like Tom's kind of gumption here. I feel like
Speaker 3: he understands now that he's Dating's and there, and that
Speaker 3: puts him a like A he can be a sassy.
Speaker 5: Proud guy, because I was like, whoa, he's like.
Speaker 2: They're one of my fav couples. Maybe that I.
Speaker 1: Love him, love that because they genuinely seem like in love.
Speaker 5: I know, it's actually really sweet.
Speaker 3: I support them, and I hope that they're getting a
Speaker 3: lot of money for being in this movie, and I
Speaker 3: hope that they're gonna have a great time making it.
Speaker 3: And I hope that obviously Mary Jade and Peter managed
Speaker 3: to find each other again, because that is such lovely casting.
Speaker 5: Sorry I should say MJ and Pizza.
Speaker 3: Anyway, to another thing that's not going so well for somebody.
Speaker 1: Amazon's adaptation of the Triple A video game title God
Speaker 1: of War.
Speaker 5: I Love God of War, I Love God.
Speaker 1: Two of the most so good. The last two God
Speaker 1: of War games have been highlights in the gaming calendar
Speaker 1: of two of the best games released in recent years. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: the adaptation is not going well. Production started pre production
Speaker 1: and production started about two years ago, and they've had
Speaker 1: to scrap and start over. The showrunner has left various
Speaker 1: turnover at the executive level. All of this means we're
Speaker 1: probably not going to get a God of War TV show.
Speaker 2: For I don't know, four years or something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe off in the next game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows, but you know, hopefully it's good.
Speaker 2: Hopefully it's good. Up next. Lego School for Mutants. Listen.
Speaker 1: We've talked many a time on this program about the
Speaker 1: fact that Lego often spoils things we love with the
Speaker 1: releases of their toys and the leaks of upcoming releases.
Speaker 1: This does not appear to be time any release time, but.
Speaker 2: Perhaps perfectly timed.
Speaker 1: Lego School for Mutants. The Ladies Baby licensed lego set
Speaker 1: from Marvel and Lego showcases Charles Xavier's famous school. It's
Speaker 1: a multi floor mansion, much in the vein of Hogwarts,
Speaker 1: but a little bit smaller, it seems, Yeah, but just incredible.
Speaker 1: Over three thousand pieces and it's beautiful.
Speaker 3: Very similar to the home alone house where you kind
Speaker 3: of have the different rooms. Yeah, you can build and
Speaker 3: you've got all of your X Men ninety seven faves, Iceman,
Speaker 3: Jean Gray Gambit, well Iceman actually not in X Men
Speaker 3: ninety seven, but you do have Classic Iceman, Jean Gray, Gambit, Bishop, Rogue, Wolverine, Storm, Cyclops, Magneto,
Speaker 3: Professor X.
Speaker 5: You can make them kiss.
Speaker 3: Beast is only available, that's what everyone loves to do
Speaker 3: with toys. Beast is only available via randomized loop boxes.
Speaker 3: I don't even know what that means because I'm thirty
Speaker 3: six years old, but.
Speaker 1: It means that means they're That means they're getting like
Speaker 1: an insensitive side of it.
Speaker 3: Yes, by Jean Gray's lab is going to be in there,
Speaker 3: the danger room, and there's a set to not attacking
Speaker 3: the school from outside.
Speaker 5: It is damn it. I know, I want it so bad.
Speaker 5: It looks so great. We have a banging Lego.
Speaker 3: Discord channel in our discord, so if you guys are
Speaker 3: into Lego, the host and kind of master and master
Speaker 3: of our discord, Heidi is a Lego expert, so feel.
Speaker 5: Free to join there.
Speaker 3: It is sadly three hundred and thirty dollars, but I
Speaker 3: will say comes out in November first, so timed perfectly
Speaker 3: for everyone to get into Debt at Christmas.
Speaker 1: Lots of wonderful Easter eggs in this set. The one
Speaker 1: that I particularly liked was in Jean Gray's lab. Jean
Speaker 1: Gray has a medical lab where she is working on
Speaker 1: Wolverine in the promo photos and it appears on her
Speaker 1: computer screen that she is working on a cure for
Speaker 1: the legacy virus.
Speaker 5: Just casual.
Speaker 3: By the way, can I just say, like one of
Speaker 3: the most controversial Marvel storylines of all time? And they
Speaker 3: were like, yeah, let's just see what happens, Like why not?
Speaker 5: I love that? It's like so funny.
Speaker 1: End up Next on Disney Plus, Marvel has released Mission
Speaker 1: Demolition on Disney Plus, featuring.
Speaker 2: A character just.
Speaker 1: A regular guy who works for the corporation damage Control
Speaker 1: named d Man.
Speaker 2: A character who has a very.
Speaker 3: Interesting history in the comics, very interesting combook history, Dennis Dumfy.
Speaker 3: He basically appeared first as like what people thought was
Speaker 3: like a bootleg dead Evil because his logo was similar.
Speaker 3: In this you get to see him with more of
Speaker 3: a Wolverine inspired costume. But this is on Disney Plus
Speaker 3: right now. The clips that they have released from it,
Speaker 3: it literally just dropped this morning, so we haven't had
Speaker 3: a chance to watch it, but there's a great promo
Speaker 3: clip they released where Dennis is monologuing to the camera
Speaker 3: and then Sheep comes in and kind of says that
Speaker 3: she sued Deadpool so badly he's not in the special.
Speaker 3: Really good jokes. These Lego movies have been at the
Speaker 3: forefront of really really funny.
Speaker 5: Superhero stuff, so this is a nice eyes drop.
Speaker 3: There's gonna be some really weird, deep cut stuff in here,
Speaker 3: very interesting inclusion of d Man whoever came up with that.
Speaker 3: Good for you, And yeah, I think this is gonna
Speaker 3: be a lot of fun, So definitely check that one out.
Speaker 7: Up next, Agatha, Yeah, okay, Agatha episode six Familiar.
Speaker 5: By my Side. I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna even get into it.
Speaker 1: This is simply one of the best episodes of Marvel
Speaker 1: on Disney Plus television, Like it's one of the great
Speaker 1: Disney plus Marvel episodes.
Speaker 5: It's awesome this episode coming out.
Speaker 3: You know, you watch the Penguin episodes four and five.
Speaker 3: You watch Penguin episode four, which is is widely seen
Speaker 3: as like one of the best episodes of all time
Speaker 3: and then and one of the best TV episodes of
Speaker 3: the year, and you think, like, oh, I love Agatha.
Speaker 3: It's this campy, great show, Like, you know, I can't
Speaker 3: wait to see it. But you don't really think of
Speaker 3: it in the same vein as the penguin. And then
Speaker 3: they drop this episode and you remember like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is Marvel Studios. Like when they come in hot, they
Speaker 3: can really make like a true classic. And this episode
Speaker 3: is emotional, It's fantastic. By the end, I was like
Speaker 3: didn't want it to finish. I just I knew it
Speaker 3: was coming to a close. It is one of the
Speaker 3: longer episodes, around forty four minutes, but I really was
Speaker 3: just like, I don't want this to be over because
Speaker 3: it is so good.
Speaker 5: And for people like me and Jason.
Speaker 3: This is also the introduction of a character that we've
Speaker 3: been waiting for for a very long time.
Speaker 1: That's right. We open in a different time, a different place.
Speaker 1: We see the teen who we can now officially called Billy,
Speaker 1: but in his I guess in his body's previous incarnation
Speaker 1: as William Kaplan. It is William Kaplan's bar Mitzvah. We
Speaker 1: see him at Temple and we see him at his
Speaker 1: bar mitzvah party with his friends and his family who
Speaker 1: are just regular folks in New Jersey. The theme of
Speaker 1: the party is is magic. I love a good bar Mitzvah.
Speaker 1: I went to a bar Mitzvah once that was Nick's
Speaker 1: themed and John Stark was there.
Speaker 2: It was awesome.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: So it was like the theme is magic and they
Speaker 1: have like a palm reader and all these different kinds
Speaker 1: of like magical accouterments. And William goes into the tent
Speaker 1: and the palm reader is Lilia and du she's like
Speaker 1: past her future. He goes past and he says, but
Speaker 1: don't tell me too much, like I don't want it spoiled,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to know too much. The lights
Speaker 1: flicker just as she is setting down to read his palm,
Speaker 1: and then she looks and she is immediately alarmed at
Speaker 1: what she's She tells him his lifeline is broken.
Speaker 2: But then you can.
Speaker 1: Tell despite how truly concerning this news is, she tries
Speaker 1: to kind of put a good this is all fun
Speaker 1: in games where I don't worry about it's a party, yeah,
Speaker 1: spin on it, basically saying, well, you know, life is
Speaker 1: a journey and you're gonna go under a lot of transformations.
Speaker 1: But then says to him just big changes, Yeah, big
Speaker 1: changes for your life. But then says to him and
Speaker 1: one is a pretty ominous note to close on Hey,
Speaker 1: enjoy your life right now. Enjoy what's happening right Stay
Speaker 1: in the moment. Stay in the moment. He leaves and
Speaker 1: forgets his coat. She takes out a tile and writes
Speaker 1: the sigil on it, writes the sigil that binds him
Speaker 1: from from saying who he is, and drops it in
Speaker 1: his suit jacket. And she leaves the tent to say
Speaker 1: to someone, Hey, this kid forgot his jacket in my
Speaker 1: tent and she's and the person is like, who, and
Speaker 1: she says, I forgot she did.
Speaker 2: She immediately forgets the entire So that's true.
Speaker 1: So we know one that Lilia did the sigil, and
Speaker 1: then two didn't know who he was during the Witch's
Speaker 1: Road trials.
Speaker 2: Because of this.
Speaker 6: I did not have Lilia doing the sigel.
Speaker 5: On my list.
Speaker 3: I love that they brought her in in the form
Speaker 3: of kind of her fake palm reader business, which she's
Speaker 3: kind of admitted was just a front for like her
Speaker 3: real life. And I love that in that moment we
Speaker 3: see the power of the sigel because she immediately doesn't
Speaker 3: even remember who he was, which.
Speaker 5: Is it's just such great storytelling.
Speaker 3: And then we get this big connective tissue moment that
Speaker 3: kind of hints us, right, So.
Speaker 1: This is obviously taking place during the finale of Wana
Speaker 1: Vision some three years earlier. The party gets broken up
Speaker 1: because news breaks that the anomaly over in Westview, which
Speaker 1: is nearby town nearby is something's going on with it,
Speaker 1: So everybody starts speeding home in the car. The reality
Speaker 1: of the anomaly is clearly breaking through because you can
Speaker 1: hear pieces of Wanda's television shows on the Kaplan car radio.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's shrinking, kind of the implication being that the
Speaker 6: magic as the anomaly shrinks, the magic's kind of escaping
Speaker 6: out of it and influencing them.
Speaker 1: As this is happening, William pulls the tile out of
Speaker 1: his jacket. He's looking at it, and just then they're
Speaker 1: run off the road. Their car spins into a tree.
Speaker 1: The parents are shaken but okay, but William is very.
Speaker 2: Very badly hurt. In fact, he dies.
Speaker 1: He is for a moment dead, but then rip William Kaplan,
Speaker 1: Rip William Kaplan. But then he comes back to life,
Speaker 1: yelling the name Tommy. Is it the same Billy? We're
Speaker 1: gonna find out that it's actually not. The police come
Speaker 1: by and Billy goes to the hospital.
Speaker 3: At the hospital, well interesting to note, Hey, though the
Speaker 3: cop is Alice, one of the cops, So we're getting
Speaker 3: the implication here with Lilia, with Alice that probably the
Speaker 3: coven is more connected to Billy than it ever was
Speaker 3: to Agatha.
Speaker 1: That's correct. In the hospital, we learned that Billy can
Speaker 1: read thoughts. He can hear certainly, when people are experiencing
Speaker 1: intense emotions, their thoughts breakthrough and he can hear them,
Speaker 1: and he can hear how worried his parents are. Because
Speaker 1: though his scans seem fine and the doctors tell him
Speaker 1: he can go home, he has a former amnesia. He
Speaker 1: is not himself, is not acting like himself, doesn't remember anything,
Speaker 1: doesn't remember.
Speaker 2: Anything of his previous life.
Speaker 1: He goes home and his dog barks at him because
Speaker 1: of again, it's not William Kaplan. He hears his parents
Speaker 1: worries again, and he blurts out like stop worrying about me,
Speaker 1: And then he says, listen, I'm fine. Maybe I just
Speaker 1: need to see my Maybe, Mom, you're right, I just
Speaker 1: need to see my room and that will shake me up.
Speaker 2: She didn't say this.
Speaker 1: She thought like, maybe when he sees his room, he'll
Speaker 1: be fine. We go up to the room, We see
Speaker 1: William Capslan's previous room. It was this is a room
Speaker 1: of a kid who was kind of very interested in magic,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, uh, there's stuff from the Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1: There's pictures Budini.
Speaker 5: We also get like there's Alice in wonder Lamp.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like it's very much posters about oh the
Speaker 3: Black Cauldron, my favorite doesn't evenybe very much nods to
Speaker 3: what has influenced the episodes that we've seen before. There's
Speaker 3: even a Goony's poster, but it actually says the Goofballs,
Speaker 3: which is very funny. But yeah, lots of Wizard of
Speaker 3: Oz stuff here, and when we get to see Billy's
Speaker 3: room in the few future, we'll get to see some
Speaker 3: more kind of referential stuff.
Speaker 1: So he looks in the mirror and he's practicing taking
Speaker 1: on this this new personality I am willing. My name
Speaker 1: is William Kaplan, my name is William Kaplin, trying to
Speaker 1: convince himself.
Speaker 3: I also found this moment like so heartbreaking because imagine
Speaker 3: baby Billy from Wondervision and just the absolute like wherewith
Speaker 3: all an understanding to know, like, well, I'm in this
Speaker 3: body now, so there's nothing I can do about it, Like,
Speaker 3: if I tell people I'm not me, nobody's gonna believe me,
Speaker 3: So I just have to pretend to be in this body.
Speaker 3: I just think one this is answer is one of
Speaker 3: the biggest questions that all of us have been answering,
Speaker 3: what would they do to bring Billy into the universe,
Speaker 3: because obviously he doesn't really exist in this universe. So
Speaker 3: this was a theory that Aaron, our super producer, had
Speaker 3: brought up, the idea that the body and the car
Speaker 3: crash that we hear about at the beginning would become
Speaker 3: a host body for Billy, and that is obviously what
Speaker 3: happens here. But I think they did it in a
Speaker 3: way that was like so emotionally driven and not kind
Speaker 3: of necromancy or you know, like they were doing in
Speaker 3: Multiverse of Madness with the skin walking. I think this
Speaker 3: has such an emotional bent to it. In this moment
Speaker 3: when he's just looking in the mirror saying that is.
Speaker 1: It's it's also clear that he doesn't have all of
Speaker 1: his Billy memories from that very very bizarre and just
Speaker 1: previous reality of life, right yeah, And which, by the way,
Speaker 1: like even if he could remember all of that stuff,
Speaker 1: would it even make sense because it was you know,
Speaker 1: you're in this exactly like X Reality. That's a television
Speaker 1: show that's not really real. Anyway, three years past, Billy
Speaker 1: is a goth. Now he's on a date with his
Speaker 1: boyfriend Eddie, which is very interesting.
Speaker 2: Okay, so let me start.
Speaker 3: Let's talk.
Speaker 2: With his boyfriend Eddie.
Speaker 1: Eddie, And we must mention that in the colleges Billy
Speaker 1: is it has a famous relationship with Hulkling, who whose
Speaker 1: name is Teddy.
Speaker 3: Right, And I have to say, look, now this was
Speaker 3: a discussion in the discord. Yes, because in in England,
Speaker 3: especially though there are American versions of it, Teddy is
Speaker 3: also Kennedy, the name exactly like Edward Kennedy. You can
Speaker 3: be Teddy if you're Edward, and you can also be
Speaker 3: Teddy obviously if you're Theodore. Now in the Marvel comics,
Speaker 3: Hulkling is a Theodore. Though I think here they are
Speaker 3: giving us Eddie as an implication that they want us
Speaker 3: to have these conversations because he could be both.
Speaker 2: We don't know very clearly they.
Speaker 5: Have this exact conversation. The first thing is they.
Speaker 3: Want us to all go, wait, did you say Eddie?
Speaker 5: Did you say Eddie? And then they want us to
Speaker 5: be like, well it could.
Speaker 6: He looks like him he VI and also as well,
Speaker 6: as we will see throughout this episode, Eddie is very
Speaker 6: open minded, which.
Speaker 5: Makes you, well, maybe you got a little secret. Maybe
Speaker 5: you were a little secret.
Speaker 2: Here's my prediction.
Speaker 1: Eddie doesn't know it, but he's he's not all human exactly,
Speaker 1: and he's going to find.
Speaker 2: At a certain point.
Speaker 3: He doesn't know it.
Speaker 5: I can curt, I can cut.
Speaker 3: He doesn't know it, but there's something inside him that
Speaker 3: makes him more open minded. I think it would be
Speaker 3: fantastic casting if it is the case. If not, they're
Speaker 3: having a lot of fun with it, but yes, very fun. Also,
Speaker 3: we see Billy's like teenage sixteen year old bedroom and
Speaker 3: we get like a carry poster, we get the craft still.
Speaker 5: A badget exactly.
Speaker 3: You know he's got even there's even like a sow
Speaker 3: poster up there.
Speaker 5: He's having a lot of dark, exciting memories. Also very.
Speaker 3: Like correct for this character. We see a trans Live
Speaker 3: Matter poster in the background. There's also an Evanescence poster
Speaker 3: which was hilarious and very important. A Lorna wo tour
Speaker 3: poster who is Alice Wu's mom, who recorded the most
Speaker 3: famous version of The Witch's Road. So lots of fun
Speaker 3: stuff here, and I really like these two together. I
Speaker 3: think this is a fantastic bit of casting.
Speaker 1: On the date, Billy can hear that Eddie wants to
Speaker 1: tell him that he loves him. They kiss, and then
Speaker 1: Billy admits to Eddie that things have not been the
Speaker 1: same since the car crash. He feels like he's a
Speaker 1: different person ever since that day. Eddie wants to here more,
Speaker 1: so they go back to his house, and at his
Speaker 1: house us up in the room, the aforementioned room. Billy
Speaker 1: lays out the evidence that he's collected over these years
Speaker 1: that he's been investigating what happened to him, and he
Speaker 1: believes it all starts with the anomaly. Shows them the
Speaker 1: video of the anomaly. There's probably lots of video of
Speaker 1: it on the internet.
Speaker 5: And he sees Run's and he's.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: Also because Eddie's like, I get it's clear that the
Speaker 1: common story is that the story that's out there is
Speaker 1: this was an Avengers training accident. Yeah, but Billy is like, no,
Speaker 1: this is magic looking at yeah.
Speaker 3: And also the video includes an ad for Jen, another
Speaker 3: of the Witches coven, so we're getting more implications that
Speaker 3: anna also very interesting is like he says that nobody
Speaker 3: who is in Westview wants to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Billy lives in Eastview, which is like where Billy Kaplan
Speaker 3: and his family lived. And I just thought that it
Speaker 3: was an interesting note because we saw how kind of
Speaker 3: accepting all the residents of west you were of Agatha
Speaker 3: and just letting her live there in her own like
Speaker 3: tiny hex kind of compassionately.
Speaker 5: But they're obviously like quite a close knit group.
Speaker 6: But luckily he has found somebody on Reddit whose name,
Speaker 6: by the way, I don't know how this got through
Speaker 6: the Disney Plus kind of His name is Bonerific sixty nine.
Speaker 5: That's his Reddit name.
Speaker 1: That's incredible, but it's honestly very Reddit. So they go
Speaker 1: to meet this guy billion Eddie, and you know, he's
Speaker 1: in a trench coat, he's wearing a bucket hat with
Speaker 1: like a I thought.
Speaker 5: It was going to be like Randall Wu, I was,
Speaker 5: I mean, Jimmy Wu. I was not sure who it
Speaker 5: was going to be.
Speaker 2: I did not know who it was going to be.
Speaker 1: And it turns out that it is survivor of Westview himself,
Speaker 1: Ralph Boner whose appearance in Wana Vision was controversial.
Speaker 2: And its own way and hilarious.
Speaker 1: And this this is like one of the most comic
Speaker 1: book moves in a Marvel television show yet, because this
Speaker 1: is like what they do in comics. They take a
Speaker 1: character that is like, people didn't know how to feel
Speaker 1: about it, maybe it didn't go over super weird, you
Speaker 1: didn't see it again, see that person again, and they
Speaker 1: build it into storyline of it. And here's what they also.
Speaker 6: Bring him back like dark and gritty and like and
Speaker 6: you take a character like three D Man and you're like, okay,
Speaker 6: but now he's like the only one who can see scrolls.
Speaker 5: You know. And this is very much in that vein
Speaker 5: where now.
Speaker 3: Rick Joe, Yeah, sweet Ralph Boner is now like this
Speaker 3: paranoid kind of conspiracy theorist, but it's not a conspiracy.
Speaker 3: He knows what really happened in Westview and and he
Speaker 3: is gonna tell them, though he wants to know first.
Speaker 5: Are they wearing wires?
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: So they have this conversation and he Ralph doesn't really
Speaker 1: give them much.
Speaker 2: He explains basically what.
Speaker 1: It was like to be in the Wanda HECKX in Westview,
Speaker 1: that it was like watching yourself on TV, but the
Speaker 1: TV show is happening in your own head. It was
Speaker 1: very strange, It was very troubling.
Speaker 2: Billy asks like, are you changed now? Do you have powers?
Speaker 1: Basically, Ralph is does not want to talk about that,
Speaker 1: and he does not want interesting that he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to talk about doesn't want to talk about that. And
Speaker 1: Billy can hear by reading Ralph's thoughts that Ralph doesn't
Speaker 1: want to talk about Agatha Harkness. So of course Billy
Speaker 1: asks about her, and he says he did you know,
Speaker 1: Ralph blurts out, she's an ancient witch and you know,
Speaker 1: very dangerous, and then he starts to bringing which repellent.
Speaker 2: She just show up? Now?
Speaker 1: Ralph agrees to tell them more, but for extra money.
Speaker 1: They have to pay a little extra and so then
Speaker 1: he tells them that he had it the worst of
Speaker 1: anyone in Westview because Agatha hijacked his life, made him
Speaker 1: do all these things that he didn't want to do,
Speaker 1: made her puppet, stole his house, tank the value of
Speaker 1: the house.
Speaker 5: She thought he thought she was his wife, right, and
Speaker 5: really he was hypuppet.
Speaker 3: He was her familiar, yeah, exactly, and he was also
Speaker 3: the one is revealed who killed Sparky the dog, so
Speaker 3: he was really made to do awful things.
Speaker 2: Pay attention to.
Speaker 1: This interaction because I believe that it is important just
Speaker 1: in the way that it describes the relationship that a
Speaker 1: person under a spell might have with the person who
Speaker 1: casts the spell human in a which anyway. Billy then
Speaker 1: finds out from Ralph that Wanda had kids. Wanta Envision
Speaker 1: had kids, twins Billy who can read minds and Tommy
Speaker 1: the Speakster. This shakes Billy because again Billy doesn't have
Speaker 1: his full memories the twins disappeared. Ralph tells them Wanda
Speaker 1: is probably dead.
Speaker 2: He's pretty sure she's dead.
Speaker 5: Because that's probably what was reported that vision.
Speaker 1: Word on the street is that he's with getting dissected,
Speaker 1: which we know is true. And then he says Agatha, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: is still in Westview under some kind of spell. She
Speaker 1: doesn't have powers. Billy says, great, that means she's harmless.
Speaker 1: Billy goes home. Parents want to hang out and watch Netflix,
Speaker 1: but Billy says he has to Word or Disney Plus,
Speaker 1: probably a Disney Plus or Hula.
Speaker 3: They want to watch a body horror that's elevated, so
Speaker 3: it's elevated, Billy.
Speaker 1: Continues to do more research. He goes upstairs and starts googling.
Speaker 1: He puts Ralph's statements into his investigative file. He examines
Speaker 1: the sigil tile that he still does not know what
Speaker 1: that is. He googles Agatha. He eventually comes up with
Speaker 1: a picture of Agatha that's like a very old like
Speaker 1: Daghea type, and then he matches that with very similar
Speaker 1: looking women throughout history.
Speaker 3: You know when you find people are always finding like
Speaker 3: portraits of Keanu Reeves right throughout history. It's that kind
Speaker 3: of thing. But this time it's just the trick of
Speaker 3: the eye. This time she really has been around in
Speaker 3: the whole time.
Speaker 1: As he's listening to Alice's mom's recording of the Witch's Road,
Speaker 1: he begins to piece together different facts about AGA's life.
Speaker 1: That she murdered her coven, that she's the only survivor
Speaker 1: of the Witch's Road, and some other stuff that I forget.
Speaker 1: Billy then makes a decision that he's going to go
Speaker 1: visit Agatha, so he drives to Westview. He brings his
Speaker 1: little spell book that he's been marking up, looks up
Speaker 1: a release spell which is going to be an important
Speaker 1: item to kind of get Agatha to remember who she is.
Speaker 1: And after exchanging texts with Eddie, he goes inside and
Speaker 1: we see that we've seen the rest from her perspective, right,
Speaker 1: this is when.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and missus the detective funny to see it from
Speaker 6: his perspective because it's very interesting. Well, I will say here,
Speaker 6: so he we. He goes, he breaks into the house.
Speaker 3: He's gonna get her broach, the famous brooch that was
Speaker 3: the thing that basically let a lot of us know
Speaker 3: that she was even gonna be Agatha Harkness. Interestingly, we
Speaker 3: see Agatha arguing with who we know is Rio, but
Speaker 3: we don't see Rio at any point in this.
Speaker 5: It looks like Agatha is talking to herself.
Speaker 3: He rummages for the personal item, he gets that, he
Speaker 3: manages to get the the brooch and does and does
Speaker 3: a spell and he's chasing and interestingly, we then get
Speaker 3: to see one of the funniest scenes in the.
Speaker 5: MCU so far.
Speaker 3: Will go as far to say that this is like
Speaker 3: Avengers eating Schwama level as I think will go down kind.
Speaker 5: Of as iconic when Billy.
Speaker 6: When we see the interrogation from Billy's perspective, it is
Speaker 6: so funny because.
Speaker 5: He she does not know what she's talking about.
Speaker 3: He is just in her house and it is so
Speaker 3: hilariou and I think they played it exactly right where
Speaker 3: they they give us a little more of what he
Speaker 3: was going through before we get to the part where
Speaker 3: he realized what was going on and started to unravel
Speaker 3: her spell, which is when she shows him the dead
Speaker 3: bodies that are actually just like flowers and kind of
Speaker 3: flower beds from around Westvieed. But this was so funny,
Speaker 3: and yeah, he is just like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: So these are wonderful moments actually where Catherine Hahn, you
Speaker 1: can tell that a lot of this was improvised, because
Speaker 1: oh yes, like there's moments where her like it's clear
Speaker 1: that that they.
Speaker 2: Are about to break, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Like it's like watching SNL
Speaker 3: when they're doing a good skit and everyone's like trying
Speaker 3: really hard not to laugh.
Speaker 5: There is definitely a lot of that.
Speaker 3: Also, I have to say, I maybe I was just
Speaker 3: slow and feel free to tell me that in the discord,
Speaker 3: but like I didn't realize that Billy was the one
Speaker 3: who broke Agatha out of being in one to spell.
Speaker 3: I just assumed it was Rio or I assumed there
Speaker 3: was some kind of you know, revelation, you know, when
Speaker 3: she threw the pictures on the table. But I thought
Speaker 3: it was really cool to see it from this perspective
Speaker 3: and see that it was actually Billy who kind of
Speaker 3: broke her.
Speaker 5: Out, and that shows his power.
Speaker 1: I think it was unclear before this, but yeah, it
Speaker 1: shows that he does have some juice.
Speaker 5: So and then.
Speaker 1: Right after Billy chance to spell releases her, she kind
Speaker 1: of like sees her house with new eyes and then
Speaker 1: she asks who he is and he now we see
Speaker 1: from the other side that first he says, I'm William Kaplan.
Speaker 1: She doesn't buy it. She comes in es, who are
Speaker 1: you really? He says, Billy Maximov.
Speaker 5: And that's what is banned with the sigil, right.
Speaker 1: We see it as him saying it, but from her perspective,
Speaker 1: she can't hear it. Yeah, so from her, we're watching
Speaker 1: it from his perspective. We go to the road in
Speaker 1: the in the continueuation of the story from the previous episode,
Speaker 1: Agatha crawls out of the swamp with a rise.
Speaker 5: She just handily had it so funny. She's like, you
Speaker 5: are no killing man. This mud swamp.
Speaker 1: She crawls up to Billy Billy's looking at the tile.
Speaker 1: He's turning it over his hand. He crushes it.
Speaker 2: It's gone.
Speaker 1: He doesn't need it anymore, it doesn't bind him anymore.
Speaker 1: Agatha confronts him. Uh, she doesn't buy this whole. I'm
Speaker 1: disinterested in being a witch. I'm just here for a
Speaker 1: specific kind of personal reason. I don't want power.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And in fact, we know that previously he had said
Speaker 1: I just need power. That's why he was wanted to
Speaker 1: go with her on the Witch's Road, So we know
Speaker 1: that's not the true. That's not true. And in fact,
Speaker 1: she says, and whether this is true or not, we
Speaker 1: can debate that she always suspected who he was. She
Speaker 1: always kind of had an inkling that he was one
Speaker 1: of the sons, particularly Billy Masmof. She says, it's nice
Speaker 1: to see him again. She uses his name. He realizes
Speaker 1: that he can say his name in it, she can
Speaker 1: recognize it. She says, well, it's too bad that you
Speaker 1: killed Lily and Jin, you know, but what can you do?
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 2: Agatha is like kind.
Speaker 1: Of lording this over him, like you are you you're
Speaker 1: pretending not a witch, You're not a survivor, but which
Speaker 1: is a survivors and sometimes they have to do stuff
Speaker 1: like this. Uh, and she's like, I don't even remember
Speaker 1: how many people I've killed. Agatha then wants to know,
Speaker 1: like where'd you get this fresh body? Like this is
Speaker 1: very interesting, Like where did you that? You know, like,
Speaker 1: you don't feel bad about what you had to do.
Speaker 1: You saw your opportunity to escape and to survive, and
Speaker 1: you did it.
Speaker 2: And surviving by any means necessary is what a witch does.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because because this tells us I think that, uh,
Speaker 1: there's no Mephisto involvement, that Billy, as the anomaly was shrinking,
Speaker 1: decided that he wanted to live and did this.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, jumped into Also, I would put it
Speaker 3: out there. This is like, I think it's worth saying.
Speaker 3: Is this something that Wanda did in her final moment?
Speaker 5: Did she kind of send you?
Speaker 4: I don't think so.
Speaker 5: The boys.
Speaker 3: Was it just old Billy who just felt that power
Speaker 3: to live and it was just in this moment that
Speaker 3: was the crash he found the body and it was
Speaker 3: kind of fateful.
Speaker 1: I think it was all Billy. I think it was
Speaker 1: all Billy. I don't think Wanda had anything to do
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: So he.
Speaker 1: Tries to use his power and make a show of force,
Speaker 1: but he can't. He says, whatever, it's still there, and
Speaker 1: I don't need your help walking the road, Agatha wonders,
Speaker 1: it's like, what do you want from the road?
Speaker 5: What do you we max him off from those?
Speaker 1: She goes through the things, the people that could possibly
Speaker 1: be Mom obviously not want to know vision no, but
Speaker 1: maybe it's the brother Toby, and he's like Tommy, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's Tommy, very clear, right, that's what he wants.
Speaker 5: I think that's the most emotional choice.
Speaker 1: And then she walks off with Adam saying, last one
Speaker 1: there isn't at the end of the road is a
Speaker 1: nice person, and Billy goes off after her, saying I'm
Speaker 1: not that nice.
Speaker 5: So wow, here's my.
Speaker 1: This is here's my theory of what's happened. It's a
Speaker 1: usual suspects where the person that you think is the
Speaker 1: weak person is actually the villain the hero, but like
Speaker 1: the main drive.
Speaker 3: The mast also the person who is potentially puppeteering the
Speaker 3: story because even whether he knows it not, because the
Speaker 3: truth is Jen Lilia Alice, we.
Speaker 5: All know that Sharon with your car Sharon who with
Speaker 5: a colleague.
Speaker 3: They had connections to Billy before this, and Agatha had
Speaker 3: a connection to Billy maxim Off because she had been
Speaker 3: his baby, saying as she had kind of hung out
Speaker 3: with him in this messed up hex of Westview.
Speaker 5: So yes, Billy's definitely the main here.
Speaker 6: I feel personally that they are still giving Agatha her
Speaker 6: time to shine, and I think Catherine.
Speaker 5: And Joe Locke are so good together here.
Speaker 3: So I'm very interested to see where we go next
Speaker 3: three episodes, but only two weeks to go, because the
Speaker 3: next episode is going to play episode seven by itself
Speaker 3: on Wednesday night as usual, but then on the thirtieth
Speaker 3: of October, the day before Halloween, we will get the
Speaker 3: final two episodes together, which I think is very exciting.
Speaker 5: I did not see them bringing back Evan Peters.
Speaker 3: I thought he was fantastic, So I love that and
Speaker 3: I think it definitely opens up the space for more
Speaker 3: big cameos in the final two episodes. Biggest question is
Speaker 3: we have not had any casting news about Tommy, So
Speaker 3: do you think we're gonna get Tommy in the last
Speaker 3: three episodes.
Speaker 1: I think we have to write or or at least
Speaker 1: we get direction of or at least we get a
Speaker 1: direction of where Tommy is.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was just a little costing they were able
Speaker 3: to keep quiet because like everyone was asking about Billy
Speaker 3: and Joe Lock so obviously evokes Billy in the comics.
Speaker 1: So I want to return to what Ralph the way
Speaker 1: Ralph described his life under the power of Agatha Harkness,
Speaker 1: because I think that that's what's happening to her, and
Speaker 1: it's Billy doing it. I think everything that she's experiencing
Speaker 1: is I think Billy. I think it's very possible that
Speaker 1: Billy is pulling all of these strings. The question that is,
Speaker 1: why does he need her? Probably because she's the only
Speaker 1: one who's ever walked the road, so he needs someone
Speaker 1: to like meet shield him as they go all the
Speaker 1: way to the end. He's never done it before. That said,
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's her under his power
Speaker 1: and not the other way around.
Speaker 3: I think that's very interesting and also does make sense
Speaker 3: when you look back at like when he was in
Speaker 3: the house and everyone else was downstairs singing the song
Speaker 3: to open up the Witch's Road, he was upstairs and that's.
Speaker 5: When the Salem seven came.
Speaker 3: You know, he could be the one who is kind
Speaker 3: of whose magic is powerful enough that they're following, or
Speaker 3: who let them know that Agatha was trying to go
Speaker 3: on the road.
Speaker 5: Exist are they even real things? Or are they just
Speaker 5: something that he can kind of create? Or you know
Speaker 5: what I did see this was in discord. I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: I don't know who said it.
Speaker 3: But I can't recall right now, but it was a
Speaker 3: really good theory where it was like, isn't you know
Speaker 3: is Billy technically like skin walking by being in someone
Speaker 3: else's dead body? So are these the kind of like
Speaker 3: haunted souls who are chasing him? Kind of like what
Speaker 3: we saw in Multiverse of Madness where the souls of
Speaker 3: the damned followed, uh, you know doctor Strange when he
Speaker 3: was in zombie Stranger's body. Obviously slightly different situation, but
Speaker 3: I do think that's interesting. Also, like said, we've seen
Speaker 3: Billy control Lilya and Jen who I have to say,
Speaker 3: if you've seen the mid season trailer Fingers Crossed, we
Speaker 3: will get more of them coming up. They're not really dead. Yeah.
Speaker 5: This episode is also called Familiar by thy Side, which
Speaker 5: does bring up the question of hoops Is hoops familiar?
Speaker 5: Let's bring in super producer Joel Monique, because I know
Speaker 5: you have some familiar thoughts. If you are there, I
Speaker 5: am here, by.
Speaker 8: God's good, is going to try to come in just away?
Speaker 5: You're familiar, Aaron, if you want.
Speaker 6: To come in.
Speaker 8: Corners and questions. Okay, first, before we get to familiar
Speaker 8: I wanted to Rosie the is it Wanda question? I
Speaker 8: have the same thought because when Leah's writing on that tile,
Speaker 8: does it seem as if she has one of her
Speaker 8: dissociative moments for a moment when.
Speaker 5: She comes back and is like I I think so yeah.
Speaker 8: And she's like, hey, kidd of like the now it's
Speaker 8: all you have moment, I'm like, is this Agatha channeling through?
Speaker 2: Can she do that?
Speaker 8: We've seen her dream work but only into herself.
Speaker 1: I was I was wondering, wait, you mean Wanda.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was actually wondering if what it was was
Speaker 3: that Lilian knew the car crash was going to happen
Speaker 3: and that he was going to be She.
Speaker 1: Looked at the lifeline and knew that he was going
Speaker 1: to die as the lifeline said, you're dying soon.
Speaker 3: So also you're gonna come back. I think she had
Speaker 3: a vision of both. So I definitely was interested. I
Speaker 3: think it would be even though we've seen Wanda go
Speaker 3: full kind of evil. I support her rights and wrongs,
Speaker 3: but obviously in multiverse madness, a lot of people weren't
Speaker 3: happy that version of Wanda. I don't think that they
Speaker 3: will do it where she made the car crash happen,
Speaker 3: which I think could be a read. I don't think
Speaker 3: it's that, but I do think there is a version
Speaker 3: where when she said goodbye to the kids, she like
Speaker 3: kind of put it out into the universe that she
Speaker 3: hoped they could find another body or she hoped they
Speaker 3: could be real.
Speaker 5: And this is a manifestation of that.
Speaker 6: But I like Jason's Reid where it gives Billy the
Speaker 6: full agency.
Speaker 1: I think it's Billy the way Billy says, I'm not
Speaker 1: that nice, Like, yes, okay, he's he is.
Speaker 5: He is pretended to be somebody's son for three years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like he stole somebody's body. He did what he
Speaker 1: needed to do, just he's not a real person in
Speaker 1: this reality, but he wanted to keep living despite the
Speaker 1: fact that he's not from here. He may not even
Speaker 1: be real, yeah, I think of real, but he wanted
Speaker 1: to keep going and so he did what he had
Speaker 1: to do.
Speaker 2: He's not quote a nice show.
Speaker 8: Okay, so that brings me to my familiar stuff. Okay,
Speaker 8: you could have easily called this episode all that's good
Speaker 8: is bad. I was going through the quotes and I
Speaker 8: was like, I cant geting tripped out because forever. Okay,
Speaker 8: So Agatha has been calling Billy her familiar. Now the
Speaker 8: initial like set of the tone of the show was like, Okay,
Speaker 8: she's joking. She's trying to hide Billy from the other witches.
Speaker 8: She's trying to figure out what his real deal is
Speaker 8: and why this sigil is here. And the other witch
Speaker 8: is sort of joined in on the Oh, yes, you're familiar,
Speaker 8: you're underage, hand drink, you're othered from us. But then
Speaker 8: why call this episode that familiar? By your side? And
Speaker 8: then the last thing we see is these two folks
Speaker 8: walking down the road together. So my question is is
Speaker 8: Billy or Agatha the familiar? That's what I'm trying to
Speaker 8: figure out. So we know Agatha for a while had
Speaker 8: a bunny called Neckless Scratch. You would definitely think of
Speaker 8: that as the familiar. If we look at familiars in
Speaker 8: pop culture history, there's they're typically animals. You think, uh,
Speaker 8: Salem Sabergath from Sapreena, the teenage witch Gig from Kiy's
Speaker 8: Delivery Service, maybe Luna from sailor Moon, lots of kiddies
Speaker 8: the Book of Shadows from hocus Pocus is technically a familiar.
Speaker 8: They do not have to be living beings. A French
Speaker 8: philosopher Peer.
Speaker 5: Even factory ban yeah plays a little bit.
Speaker 2: If you think the little girls.
Speaker 8: Being a witch, that's her familiar for sure. So there's
Speaker 8: a French philosopher Peer Arafard who defined a familiar as
Speaker 8: the spirit is like a double the alter ego of
Speaker 8: an individual. It does not look like the individual concerned.
Speaker 8: Even though it may have an independent life of its own,
Speaker 8: it remains closely linked to the individual. The familiar spirit
Speaker 8: can be an animal, but it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 3: I just I think that that in itself, that description,
Speaker 3: I think that's I would say that Agatha is almost
Speaker 3: certainly Billy's familiar because if you think about this, she
Speaker 3: essentially raised him when he was a kid. She was
Speaker 3: there as like a supportive part indeed of his early life.
Speaker 3: And then now there are two of them on the road,
Speaker 3: and it's almost like of everything that the you know,
Speaker 3: when Billy didn't know who he was, he has drawn
Speaker 3: back to this figure who essentially is like a potential
Speaker 3: Obviously she is dangerous, but she is like a part
Speaker 3: of this old spiritual life that he had. And obviously
Speaker 3: we know he actually has innate power and she doesn't.
Speaker 3: So I do think Agatha is the familiar in this situation.
Speaker 5: Jason, what do you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that's what it is.
Speaker 1: I think all of this is again, I think much
Speaker 1: like his mom, who created a very complex and immersive
Speaker 1: reality without actually knowing that she was actually doing that.
Speaker 1: I think Billy has set this mission up in a
Speaker 1: complete and very comprehensive and complex way with Agatha as
Speaker 1: his dupe, and she doesn't realize it, and he may
Speaker 1: not even fully realize all of the things he's done.
Speaker 2: You know, Jen, bringing in Jen, bringing in Alice, bringing
Speaker 2: in Sharon.
Speaker 1: That clearly was I think that was like spur of
Speaker 1: the moment he met these people, ran into them, or
Speaker 1: saw them or encountered them through the Internet, realizing that
Speaker 1: they had some kind of innate a magical history, which history,
Speaker 1: and so he brought them into this. But is that
Speaker 1: a conscious decision? Of his I don't think so. I
Speaker 1: think so, I think that he is doing I think
Speaker 1: he's done this. And I think that Agatha, you know,
Speaker 1: up until she absorbed Alice's power, she was juiceless.
Speaker 5: She was.
Speaker 2: She did not have it.
Speaker 1: She's in her house thinking she's another person. We see
Speaker 1: in the interrogation from Billy's perspective that this thing she
Speaker 1: thought she was doing the whole time, this this interrogation,
Speaker 1: that she thought she was running, she.
Speaker 2: Was not in control of it.
Speaker 1: And he was like, so, I think the one who's
Speaker 1: doing this, he's the one that's doing this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And him freeing her also puts them in a
Speaker 3: situation where she is essentially in his debt, even if
Speaker 3: she doesn't know it, which is another way of trapping
Speaker 3: a familiar. I also think this is very interesting narratively
Speaker 3: because historically in real witch trials, whether it was in
Speaker 3: Pendle in England or in Salem specifically in Pendul, they
Speaker 3: would really often accuse men who were supportive of the
Speaker 3: witches or involved in their life or brothers, they.
Speaker 5: Would accuse them of being human familiars.
Speaker 6: And essentially saying that they were a human who was
Speaker 6: able to do things that so I like the inversion
Speaker 6: here that potentially Billy is the witch and Agatha could
Speaker 6: be the familiar.
Speaker 5: We should also say that, yeah, yeah, go for it.
Speaker 1: When Lily had that disassociative moment, be you know, she
Speaker 1: reads Billy's palm, I was about to tell them stuff,
Speaker 1: and then she says the tower room, she like kind
Speaker 1: of planks out. You know, there's lots of articles out
Speaker 1: today about the terror verse means it means inevitable change,
Speaker 1: it means upheaval, and the way to say that is chaos.
Speaker 1: She's saying chaos magic. Also, she is a wonder Yeah.
Speaker 5: Also think about this.
Speaker 3: When Wonder dies, she's at the top of Mount Wondergore,
Speaker 3: and then when it's flattened, the tower is reversed, there's
Speaker 3: no Wonder Gore Rosie.
Speaker 5: Yes, So I definitely.
Speaker 3: Think she was foreseeing. She was foreseeing that, she was
Speaker 3: foreseeing it, and like you say, Jason, it's all about
Speaker 3: that chaos magic. Also, I want to put out just
Speaker 3: before we go, I want to put out a final
Speaker 3: theory that someone in the discord said. Again, I'm sorry, guys,
Speaker 3: I need to be better at catching who did this,
Speaker 3: but I am shouting you out. Somebody in the discord, said,
Speaker 3: is Billy's spell book that he has?
Speaker 5: And I love this theory so much.
Speaker 3: Is this the last remaining copy of The Dark Cold
Speaker 3: without it knowing it's the Dark Cold?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Is he able to channel some of those spells, some
Speaker 3: of that chaos magic into.
Speaker 5: This little book? And is that why it's kind of
Speaker 5: so precious and important without the.
Speaker 8: First time that it's printed and not a journal that
Speaker 8: he's been writing in, like I think we thought before
Speaker 8: and I found that really, I'm like, where did you
Speaker 8: get this book?
Speaker 2: Was it just laying around?
Speaker 8: Was that?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 8: I don't think we see the initial connection of him
Speaker 8: and the book? How we found it? And I was like, I.
Speaker 5: Know, it's just like it's just there's a lot.
Speaker 8: Of coincidence in this episode, which makes me think there
Speaker 8: could be a third party in effect at play here,
Speaker 8: because coincidence is wild. So we'll see.
Speaker 1: Wait, Aaron, did you have big, the Big, the Big,
Speaker 1: the big broomstone smelling guy with the pitchfork?
Speaker 2: N Billy the.
Speaker 1: Books sometimes in his or put the book in his path, sometimes.
Speaker 8: Back in time and placing books like that.
Speaker 3: Also, I just want to say, guys, what what do
Speaker 3: you guys make of the fact that we never see Rio.
Speaker 9: Like we are before we leave before the familiar thing.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, please. One thing I just want to ask
Speaker 9: if if anyone has time to do a rewatch listeners, hosts, producers, whatever,
Speaker 9: in specifically in Undreds and Dragons, the familiar acts of
Speaker 9: its own accord, but it has to obey your commands.
Speaker 9: So I'm thinking back to every time Billy has given
Speaker 9: a command to Agatha from as simple as help me
Speaker 9: carry missus Hart through the oven, uh, stop get away
Speaker 9: from Alice. And the other one I thought of was, oh,
Speaker 9: in the interrogation scene in this can we stop with
Speaker 9: the aggressive interrogation.
Speaker 4: All of these things she did.
Speaker 9: She has acted of her own accord in some other instances,
Speaker 9: but every time I can remember her giving him a
Speaker 9: command or him giving her a command.
Speaker 4: She has followed it.
Speaker 5: That's unavable.
Speaker 9: I don't know if there are other things out there
Speaker 9: in the show that I missed, but every time he
Speaker 9: said something to her like that, she So that's that
Speaker 9: kind of bolsters that they're beautiful.
Speaker 1: All of which is to say I is dead at
Speaker 1: the end of this right, She's She's fucking gone.
Speaker 5: She has gone on.
Speaker 3: Oh he puts that back in the hecks because he's
Speaker 3: gonna find I don't know, I'm interested to see.
Speaker 1: I think because listen, you're not gonna get You're not
Speaker 1: gonna get Tommy back without a price, right, Like someone's
Speaker 1: gotta go when you get to the end, there's gotta
Speaker 1: be a coin that you pay to get.
Speaker 2: The thing that you want.
Speaker 1: And it's just no one better to fucking hand over
Speaker 1: than than an evil witch who tried to take down
Speaker 1: your mom also failed.
Speaker 3: Just for the hope of the family and the people
Speaker 3: who love Agatha and and the queer people who adore her,
Speaker 3: I would say, if that's the case, don't worry because.
Speaker 5: Like you know, she can come back.
Speaker 8: Like yes, I'm dead, but with my awesome heart.
Speaker 6: I was gonna say, I was gonna say the implications
Speaker 6: and rumors and theories around who Reoverdal really are could
Speaker 6: align with that in a way that would still give
Speaker 6: us a happy, ish quick answer your question.
Speaker 8: You brought it up. We have to talk about it.
Speaker 8: The real thing. She's not there when Billy is talking
Speaker 8: to Agatha. If you go watch the first episode, she's
Speaker 8: definitely in the scene technically behind the glass, so not
Speaker 8: in the room with Agatha. Then I went back and
Speaker 8: I was like, Okay, is it a case of nobody's
Speaker 8: been talking to her? But no, everyone's been reacting when
Speaker 8: they brought her up from the ground, they saw her.
Speaker 8: They've been talking to them the whole time. She does
Speaker 8: disappear in the episode before this, I is so and
Speaker 8: she makes this statement that she hates ghosts. But I'm like,
Speaker 8: are you kind of haunting Agatha?
Speaker 6: Maybe?
Speaker 8: Are you? Are you connecting with her, maybe not physically,
Speaker 8: but more mentally on a spiritual like I found you,
Speaker 8: but I don't have to physically be there to have
Speaker 8: found you. I can talk to you without having to
Speaker 8: physically be present, because even when Billy's looking inside the house,
Speaker 8: we don't see her. It's not like she hid when
Speaker 8: Billy came in or something.
Speaker 5: She's just not there exactly. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get that's arguing with that, but we don't
Speaker 3: see her. I think that everyone has said episode seven
Speaker 3: is their favorite episode, which is what we're going into,
Speaker 3: so I can expect that we may get some answers
Speaker 3: or hints specifically about Rio and the kind of who
Speaker 3: is really in charge in that next episode, which I
Speaker 3: absolutely cannot wait for because the shows. Yeah, I do
Speaker 3: believe that episode seven is potentially the one where they're
Speaker 3: in costume or where they're in a.
Speaker 5: More kind of mental institute. But we are, we are
Speaker 5: yet we still have screeners.
Speaker 1: Well, we're still waiting on. Here's two things that we're
Speaker 1: definitely gonna get Jen's backstory and yes and lily is backstory.
Speaker 2: We're getting those.
Speaker 1: And you know, we've there's casting for young Lily, so
Speaker 1: one hundred percent we're.
Speaker 3: Getting and we've gotten to see hints of her. It's
Speaker 3: probably going to be some kind of Spanish inquisitions that story.
Speaker 1: So we know that that's happening definitely in the next
Speaker 1: two episodes.
Speaker 9: Also today Friday, October eighteenth, they released the pop version
Speaker 9: of the Witch's Road sung by jap in He's Breakfast.
Speaker 9: It's great, incredible, very interesting take on it.
Speaker 5: I love Japanese.
Speaker 4: Also, we're going to get some pop scene with that.
Speaker 5: I so wow.
Speaker 4: So they did not hire Michelle Zeyer to do a
Speaker 4: version of the song.
Speaker 3: My guess is the finale version of The Witch's Road
Speaker 3: will be sung by Broadway legend Patya. Everyone's everyone's very
Speaker 3: sad about they haven't had her singing a lot.
Speaker 5: I'm guessing that will be a finale version, but yes,
Speaker 5: thank you guys. I love this show. I love talking
Speaker 5: about it. Thank you both for joining us.
Speaker 4: Appreciate you.
Speaker 9: Also shout out to Joe Locke his singing during the
Speaker 9: too Yeah, well done.
Speaker 5: He's amazing.
Speaker 1: Coming up next on Extra Vision, the extras are back
Speaker 1: to discuss Arcane Thursday, Rosie and I asked the question,
Speaker 1: is nineteen eighty for the best.
Speaker 2: Year at Heart?
Speaker 1: I think we've agree it's good, but it's not the best.
Speaker 5: Good, but it's not the best.
Speaker 1: Listen to Friday episode, we're reacting to the final installment
Speaker 1: of The Venom The Last Dance.
Speaker 4: Oh Ben.
Speaker 2: Monday, we've got a recap of Penguin one oh six.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode's extull achuned.
Speaker 5: By x Ray.
Speaker 1: Vision is hosted by Jason Kensumsion and Rosie Knight and
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are
Speaker 1: Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a
Speaker 1: Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
Speaker 3: and Heidi
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