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Speaker 1: Who baby, my baby beloved. I need you, Oh how

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Speaker 1: I need you. What to Expect is a production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. I'm your host Heidi Murkoff, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a mom on a mission, a mission to help you

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Speaker 1: know what to expect every step of the way. I

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Speaker 1: don't know this for a fact, but I have a

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Speaker 1: hunch that ever since there have been moms, there has

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Speaker 1: been mom guilt, that nagging feeling that no matter what

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Speaker 1: we do for our little ones, it's never quite enough. No,

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Speaker 1: today's moms didn't invent mom guilt, but we have gotten really,

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Speaker 1: really good at it. We feel guilty about everything we

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Speaker 1: do and everything we don't do. Today, Emma and I,

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Speaker 1: both Guilty of Mom Guild, are taking on this beast

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Speaker 1: of an emotion to figure out what's normal, what's not,

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Speaker 1: and what we can do about it, with the help

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Speaker 1: of our best resource of all, So What to Expect Community, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: What to Expect Community Director is joining us again with

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Speaker 1: questions and insights from our amazing moms. Hey, Sarah, Hey Heidi,

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Speaker 1: Hi Emma, Hi love h So excited to be here again,

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Speaker 1: especially with this topic of mom guilt, which we see

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Speaker 1: impacting moms in so many different ways. We posted a

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Speaker 1: call out on our Instagram and in our community to

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Speaker 1: see what's affecting moms today. So we found out a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that we probably mostly knew. But one thing is

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Speaker 1: that mom Guild actually starts before you officially become a mom.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of women were over thinkers, over analyzers,

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Speaker 1: micro managers from way back. And so we come up

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Speaker 1: with a birth plan and when things don't go according

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Speaker 1: to plan, and by the way, we do have to

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Speaker 1: rename the birth plan because unless you're writing in a pencil,

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Speaker 1: it's so not going to go down that way. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: We can't control the birth of our baby. But sometimes

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Speaker 1: moms feel guilty about the kind of birth that they

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Speaker 1: end up having. I mean, Sarah, you you've probably heard

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Speaker 1: a lot about that in the community. Yeah, definitely. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think there's so many times where you think, like

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Speaker 1: you said, you have a birth plan, you're going to

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Speaker 1: have a natural labor, or you end up having an

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Speaker 1: epidural or even a C section. Yeah, and this isn't new.

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Speaker 1: I have to say these sections were considered by mom's.

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Speaker 1: I would get these pained letters saying I had a

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Speaker 1: C section, I failed myself, I failed my baby. I

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Speaker 1: failed my partner, as if birth were a test said

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Speaker 1: you could pass or fail, which of course it is not.

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Speaker 1: You know, a successful birth is one where the mom

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Speaker 1: and baby are both healthy, you know. Honestly, for me,

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Speaker 1: like when I was in labor of Sebastian, like five

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Speaker 1: weeks early, I was guilty that I failed him by

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Speaker 1: my body failed him by having him come too soon,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I ruined his pregnancy experience. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't get to stay inside me and stay safe and

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Speaker 1: warm in there. I felt guilty literally in that hospital bed,

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Speaker 1: which I had zero control over, and I felt that

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Speaker 1: guilt like it was my fault and your water brook,

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Speaker 1: so he had no toy, my water brook. There was

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Speaker 1: nothing I could do. My body was doing it for me,

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Speaker 1: and that was hard. So another thing that we heard

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Speaker 1: a lot about just in this never ending wave of

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Speaker 1: mom guilt was around feeding. That was something that a

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Speaker 1: lot of moms said they're having guilt around, whether it's

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Speaker 1: like breastfeeding or all that. And Emma, I know I've

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Speaker 1: heard you talk about that a little bit before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So for me, I wasn't able to produce milk, so

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was failing as a mom in

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Speaker 1: like the eyes of society. At least, my whole goal

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Speaker 1: was to breastfeed. I didn't buy bottles, you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't buy a pump. I wasn't prepared for like what

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Speaker 1: my body was going to throw at me. I felt

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Speaker 1: so much guilt for both kids. On my second one,

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Speaker 1: I felt guilt not only for my son, but also

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was failing my husband. So it

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Speaker 1: was just a lot and the worst part I'll never forget.

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Speaker 1: With Lennox, I took him to one Mommy and Me

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Speaker 1: class and I quit that day because everyone pulled out

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Speaker 1: their breast and I pulled out a bottle of formula,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I felt like, oh, they're totally judging me.

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Speaker 1: I'm there's something wrong. Yeah. I think that's so common

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Speaker 1: with the mom groups because I felt the same way,

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Speaker 1: like I could breastfeed with one baby and not the other.

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Speaker 1: And then they would have like special sessions where lactation

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Speaker 1: consultants would come in and help all the breastfeeding moms,

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Speaker 1: and I would just like, I want to go cry

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Speaker 1: in the corner. Yeah, exactly. And of course, as we

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Speaker 1: always say on what to expect, there's no shame in

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Speaker 1: the feeding game. So that's something we always have to remember.

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Speaker 1: I just had mom said to me on Facebook that

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Speaker 1: she hated breastfeeding both times and she's now pregnant again

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Speaker 1: with her third and she's feeling guilty that she doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to do it again. I had another mom who

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Speaker 1: just told me yesterday that she was racked with guilt

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Speaker 1: over the struggles she was having with breastfeeding. Listened to

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Speaker 1: our breastfeeding podcast, which you guys can all go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to, and felt so much better. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like this is one area where guilt is pervasive,

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Speaker 1: but it shouldn't be. Yeah, and then of course there

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Speaker 1: are moms who who hate pumping and they want to

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Speaker 1: quit pumping. They feel guilty. Emma, we had to do

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Speaker 1: an intervention with you to get you. Just lost my

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Speaker 1: nipple from mastitis. I had some mistitis so many times,

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Speaker 1: but in that case, I was just on a mission

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Speaker 1: to make milk, regardless of the consequences. So another major

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Speaker 1: theme for our moms are difficulty around childcare and the

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Speaker 1: time spent away for your little one. So many moms

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Speaker 1: said going back to work working too much. It starts

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Speaker 1: with like the base of feeling guilty about work in general,

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Speaker 1: and then just every day there's something tied to that

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Speaker 1: that you know, makes moms feel like they're not doing

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Speaker 1: enough exactly by the way. You can feel this way

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Speaker 1: working from home, and a lot of moms have been

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Speaker 1: working at home. In fact, I kind of think that

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Speaker 1: it's it's in so many ways harder because you can't

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Speaker 1: separate your two jobs. It's so hard. And then there's

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Speaker 1: also you know, guilt around sending kids to daycare or

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Speaker 1: whatever childcare that you go with. I think every decision

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Speaker 1: is is really tough along the way you question am

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Speaker 1: I doing the right thing? Yeah, when I'm working at home,

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Speaker 1: I'm in computer and Lennox like, hey, can we draw?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh god, I have to do this

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Speaker 1: right now. So I feel guilty like I can't give

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Speaker 1: him that attention because he knows I'm here. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's almost harder when you're at home because it's like

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Speaker 1: double guilt, you know, and it's hard. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: come part mentalized. And with daycare, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: find good quality daycare, there are a lot of pluses there.

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Speaker 1: Kids get a lot of social interaction that they otherwise wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: They also beef up their man system. But they are very,

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Speaker 1: very resilient, and we have to remember that. Yeah, I think, Emma,

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Speaker 1: what you said about that double guilt. Like you said, Heidi,

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Speaker 1: so many moms are working from home now, and it's

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Speaker 1: just like another level when your child is right there

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Speaker 1: looking at you, like, Mom, why aren't you paying attention

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Speaker 1: to me? Versus if they're actually outside of the home. Exactly,

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Speaker 1: all right, So let's talk about parenting guilt in general,

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Speaker 1: because we had so many moms right in with different

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Speaker 1: forms of that. Basically, there's a million different ways to

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Speaker 1: feel guilty. Oh my gosh. Well, Sebastian is like a

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Speaker 1: walking e er. Visit the first time when he was

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Speaker 1: like sixteen months old, I was letting him play with

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Speaker 1: bottles like he was giving them to me, and he

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Speaker 1: dropped it and slashed his leg. I had to call

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Speaker 1: them one one one the ambulance, and I felt so

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Speaker 1: much guilt. Yeah, well, what I mean, seriously, what are

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Speaker 1: you gonna do? Bubble wrap the guy? But like Lenox

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Speaker 1: never had one stitch in knock on wood. But like

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Speaker 1: Sebby's like a walking shows that you don't need to

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Speaker 1: feel guilty about this because it's more about Sebby's personality. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's just a real go gether exactly. Lenox is a

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Speaker 1: little more cautious. Yeah. I think it's hard to you know,

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Speaker 1: whenever your kids get hurt, like my son broke his

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Speaker 1: leg and I was the most traumatic thing in the world. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's just whenever your kids are hurt, it hurts you,

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Speaker 1: like you feed their pain, like it hurts so much,

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Speaker 1: and then you have the guilt on top of that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: also we you know we talk about feeling anger when

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Speaker 1: your kids won't go to sleep. I mean, who can't

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Speaker 1: relate to that, like when you're just so exhausted, Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, Yes, I can relate to that. What about

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Speaker 1: guilt over the pandemic and it's impact on kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: they feel guilty that the kids aren't having the normal

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Speaker 1: social interactions. I am saying this the other day. Semis

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Speaker 1: to his whole life has basically been inside during this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: The first real year where he's like alert and cognitive

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Speaker 1: of like life like what's happening has been inside And

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Speaker 1: I feel bad. But again, kids are resilient, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and they are getting more time with you. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they're handling it. Better than adults are. Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: is a big one screen time mom guilt, both having

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Speaker 1: kids watch so much and also you yourself being on

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Speaker 1: your phone. One of our moms said she feels guilt

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Speaker 1: around letting kids watch TV while she gets things done,

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Speaker 1: or specifically while she's making food and you know, her

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Speaker 1: baby's crying or whatever. You know, I think this happens

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Speaker 1: all the time, right, Yes, I mean, honestly, it's hard

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Speaker 1: not to feel guilty when your baby cries. But the

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Speaker 1: reality is you are a mother in the real world

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Speaker 1: where tours have to get done, food has to get made,

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Speaker 1: and eating. You have to eat and sometimes I can't wait,

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Speaker 1: and that's important, yeah, or shower. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: a sign of the times in a sense. I felt

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Speaker 1: guilty for a long time about screen time for them,

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Speaker 1: but now this is what's normal as the years go on,

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Speaker 1: like technology is becoming such a focal point of life.

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Speaker 1: And I think that what Sevy is watching on his iPad,

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Speaker 1: he'll watch things in Arabic, or he'll watch things like

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Speaker 1: they're educational, and I really do notice him repeating things

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Speaker 1: that he learned from his app. So if I can't

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Speaker 1: give him that full attention that he needs in that

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Speaker 1: moment at least he's learning something. It's a balancing act, right,

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Speaker 1: Like you're like, Okay, I need to have this time,

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Speaker 1: but how much time? I feel like I take it

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Speaker 1: day by day? Yeah. Yeah, And of course there are

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Speaker 1: days when you need to rely on that more than

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Speaker 1: other days, and that's totally fine. So another topic that

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Speaker 1: I know we want to talk about is sibling and

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Speaker 1: the guilt around siblings, which I think is never ending,

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Speaker 1: never ending battle. Right, Oh my gosh. Yes. My favorite

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Speaker 1: story is that I got went into labor with Sebastian

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Speaker 1: and it was the morning, and I was like, Lennox

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Speaker 1: has to go to school, he has to have a normal,

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Speaker 1: normal morning. So I literally sat there with constractions, making

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Speaker 1: him sausage, making him breakfast, and then I insisted on

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Speaker 1: driving myself to the hospital in labor. Don't do that

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Speaker 1: so my husband could take him to school so he

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Speaker 1: could have a normal day. And I drove myself to

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Speaker 1: the hospital. Like who took you here? Was like I

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Speaker 1: took myself. They're like oh no, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: so god, so nut, so nut. Yeah, I know, so understandable,

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Speaker 1: but so not true. And a lot of moms worry

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Speaker 1: about having a second baby and how that's or third baby,

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Speaker 1: and how that's going to impact the relationship with their

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Speaker 1: first baby. I had a mom on Facebook say that

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Speaker 1: she feels guilty about not having enough time for her

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Speaker 1: first baby. Totally normal, or I remember you had a

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Speaker 1: hard time thinking about loving another baby as much as

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Speaker 1: you loved Lennox. And I tell the some moms all

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Speaker 1: the time, you love them differently because they are different

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Speaker 1: with different personalities, but you love them equally. There is

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Speaker 1: enough love in your heart. I think a mom on

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Speaker 1: my Facebook page summed up what so many moms feel,

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Speaker 1: and that's never feeling good enough. Something else that someone

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Speaker 1: said on Facebook was she goes to bed every night

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Speaker 1: thinking about all the things that she should have done

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Speaker 1: different or better. That's the kind of guilt that we

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Speaker 1: need to let go of. Always think about tomorrow. Go

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Speaker 1: to bed not thinking about what happened during this day,

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Speaker 1: because this day is over, you know, Tomorrow's another day.

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Speaker 1: We have so much pressure on ourselves, but we have

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Speaker 1: to remember limited of our species. Right, We're humans, hu

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Speaker 1: moms if you want moms, and we do have superpowers,

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Speaker 1: but we're still only human and we can always try harder,

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Speaker 1: but we won't ever achieve perfection or even anything approximating perfection.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's really important to remember, Emma. Remember

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Speaker 1: what we used to say when you guys were little.

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Speaker 1: We would say, what's the best you can do? And

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Speaker 1: I can do the best I can do? The best

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Speaker 1: you can do is the best you can do, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes you would just say best best. Another thing I

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring up the moms run into and their

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Speaker 1: babies start to grow into toddlers, so if you're not

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Speaker 1: there yet, it could be coming. Is feeling guilty about

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Speaker 1: having your own meltdown, so losing your temper or yelling

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Speaker 1: or feelings of resentment. Oh, I do that ship all

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Speaker 1: the time. Afterwards I say I'm sorry I yelled, and

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Speaker 1: you know he has a lot of big feelings because

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Speaker 1: they need to know that you're only human as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they need to know that when you lose your temper,

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Speaker 1: you apologize and all it's good and a more positive

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Speaker 1: approach actually, instead of feeling guilty about yelling is to

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Speaker 1: take a beat. Take a beat, as you said, apologize, hug,

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Speaker 1: do something together, because sometimes guilt itself gives you, like

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Speaker 1: the perfect excuse not to do something positive because you're

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Speaker 1: already feeling guilty about it. But in fact, you can

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Speaker 1: put a positive spin on it. You can use the

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Speaker 1: guild for good because guilt is inevitable. I mean we

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Speaker 1: all have it, but a confessed or if you allow

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Speaker 1: it to build up, so you know, instead try to

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Speaker 1: turn it into something positive and break the cycle instead

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Speaker 1: of just like sitting on it and letting it ste

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Speaker 1: We also ask moms where they find comfort and support from,

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Speaker 1: like when the mom guilt comes on, and they really

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Speaker 1: had some great answers. So many of them said they

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Speaker 1: talked with their friends, family, other moms they trust and

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Speaker 1: use that as an outlet. And who do you go

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Speaker 1: to for support? My mom? None of my friends have kids,

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Speaker 1: so it's really hard. Sometimes I go to social media

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Speaker 1: and then I feel like some of my followers I've

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Speaker 1: kind of connected with, but usually good to my mom

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Speaker 1: or your dad, Oh my dad. Yeah. We heard a

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Speaker 1: lot about supportive husband's right. One mom said her husband

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Speaker 1: told her you can't compare yourself to other moms. You

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Speaker 1: don't know what their struggles or challenges are. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's wisdom, that's wisdom, and that's what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: And her own mom also told her, you're the best

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Speaker 1: mom for your kids. That's a really important message because

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Speaker 1: nobody is better, nobody is better at parenting your children

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Speaker 1: than you are. You are the best mom they ever had,

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Speaker 1: literally moderately. And sometimes our moms say that obviously they

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Speaker 1: need to just talk to their therapist, right. I love

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Speaker 1: to hear that because it's so important to know when

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Speaker 1: it's too much to handle on your own. Sometimes a

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Speaker 1: mood disorder that hasn't been diagnosed or hasn't been properly treated,

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Speaker 1: you know, can exacerbate the guild and that's really hard

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Speaker 1: to get over on your own. And that's when you know,

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Speaker 1: you should know to reach out. And and that's one

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Speaker 1: positive step that you can take. I've done it, yeah

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Speaker 1: for sure. And you know, someone said it helps to

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Speaker 1: know other moms feel this way too. That's that's why

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Speaker 1: that is so helpful to me. If someone has the

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Speaker 1: same thing, you feel immediately better, Like it just gives

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Speaker 1: me this like blanket of comfort. Another positive step that

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Speaker 1: mom has talked about was baby hugs. I would argue

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Speaker 1: hugs in general, but that that can help you get

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Speaker 1: over a lot of those feelings. Any negative feelings, you

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Speaker 1: just melt into hug And I also want to empower

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Speaker 1: you to realize that not all mom guilt is a

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Speaker 1: bad thing. Well placed guilt, the right amount of the

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Speaker 1: right kind of guilt, is actually good for you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, emotionally healthy people will always

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Speaker 1: feel some guilt. Children feel guilt, you know, when they

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Speaker 1: do something wrong, they feel guilty about it. That means

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Speaker 1: we're raising empathetic little people. Because when we're empathetic and

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Speaker 1: we can put someone else's feelings ahead of our own,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of the foundation of guilt. So that kind

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Speaker 1: of guilt is not a bad thing. That's what nurturing

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Speaker 1: actually takes. And it can in many ways make us

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Speaker 1: more productive, you know, better citizens, more responsible, and in

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Speaker 1: a way it's kind of fundamental to being a good parent.

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Speaker 1: But when it consumes us, it can actually become counterproductive,

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Speaker 1: Like I can't be good enough, so why bother trying?

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Speaker 1: You know, that kind of guilt or if at least

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Speaker 1: present on that, I never have time for myself, So

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Speaker 1: I resent my kids and my partner. So I think

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Speaker 1: like breathing else and whether it's screen time, whatever, it's

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Speaker 1: about finding balance. Like anything else in your life, and

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Speaker 1: especially in your parenting life, one of the best things

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Speaker 1: that we can do to feel better is to do

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Speaker 1: something nice for ourselves. Yeah, so we asked our moms

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Speaker 1: what was one nice thing that they planned to do

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Speaker 1: for themselves this week? And I love these responses. Some

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Speaker 1: of these ideas feel like really small things, but you know,

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Speaker 1: as busy moms, like you said earlier, Emma, just getting

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Speaker 1: a shower is like a big wind sometimes. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go run through the list and we can

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Speaker 1: kind of talk about our thoughts on this. And this

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Speaker 1: may or may not be intentional, but the first one

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Speaker 1: I have on the list is going to Target for

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Speaker 1: one hour dangerous for Emma heaven. Yeah, except for my

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Speaker 1: credit card, but oh god, that sounds amazing. Just to

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Speaker 1: like brows, not the toy section. A lot of our

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Speaker 1: moms said that they do just to kind of take

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Speaker 1: some time for them selves. Is to paint their nails.

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Speaker 1: Really brings you so much happiness, right, just yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it really does, but also helps with anxiety. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the paint by numbers things like, it's just

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Speaker 1: like soothing. Oh that would be soothing. Yeah. I did

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Speaker 1: a paint by number of myself. Oh my gosh, you

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Speaker 1: can get these paint by number kits of like photos.

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Speaker 1: And for our anniversary, I got the first picture I

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Speaker 1: sent Simon. It was a super sexy selfie and I

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Speaker 1: painted it paint by numbers. It was literally the most

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Speaker 1: relaxing moment I've had this year. I was so sad

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Speaker 1: when it was over. But it's so easy, Like you

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Speaker 1: can get one of your baby and just paint it.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. That's so cool. So we also have on

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Speaker 1: the list taking a bath, and then a lot of

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Speaker 1: I said, a lot of women said washing their hair, showering,

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Speaker 1: But like a bath is like the ultimate, right, Like bath,

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Speaker 1: that's the treat. How about going for a walk. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're big into doing the family walk. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I take walks with my kids, Like I made

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Speaker 1: a sting we time because I don't think you know

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Speaker 1: me time. It always has to be just me, But

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Speaker 1: it can be we two if it's really fun and

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Speaker 1: relaxing and a family walk and be that. Maybe not

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Speaker 1: with Sebby, but with Lennox it's not relaxing at all.

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Speaker 1: Next wants to talk about video games the whole time

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Speaker 1: and they want me to put them in trees. It's

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Speaker 1: not that relaxing. Don't you love pretending you're interested in

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Speaker 1: video game talk? And God just go off and like really,

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Speaker 1: no way, Yeah, totally. I got a lot of comments

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Speaker 1: that said wine in all caps past the wine. Another

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Speaker 1: one we had was taking a nap, which is so

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Speaker 1: hard to do that every single day, every single day

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Speaker 1: when Sebi naps because I am tired and I nap

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Speaker 1: for like thirty minutes and I'm good. That's so good.

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Speaker 1: And then another one on here was reading, which I

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Speaker 1: just a lot of times I like to listen to

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Speaker 1: audible or podcasts. I mean, that's pretty much my reading time.

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Speaker 1: I think. I don't know what about you guys. Unless

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Speaker 1: there's pictures like a magazine, like my mind will be

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Speaker 1: too racing and going places that doesn't relax me. I

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Speaker 1: had to read what to Expect when You're expecting to

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Speaker 1: her because that was the only way to true. And

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Speaker 1: then also someone said just going to her therapist was

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Speaker 1: you know that me time, which kind of love to

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Speaker 1: hear that. Right, Going anywhere let X is when I

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Speaker 1: pick up Lettox, I have to get in there an

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Speaker 1: hour early to get in line and that's a great

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Speaker 1: me time. I listen to podcasts, I score Instagram, I'm

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Speaker 1: by myself, I'm my own little world. It's great. And

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Speaker 1: it's literally just picking up my kid. And often you

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Speaker 1: call me or you call dad. Yep, Heidi. What's your

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Speaker 1: final word of advice for mom's listening and for yourself

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Speaker 1: for dealing with mom guilt? The bottom line is mom

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Speaker 1: guilt is part of the job description. My mom had it,

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Speaker 1: Your mom's had it. You don't need to overdo mom

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Speaker 1: guilt to be a good mom. You gotta cut yourself

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Speaker 1: some slack, right. You are the best mom your little

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Speaker 1: I've ever had. So give yourself a big round of

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Speaker 1: applause and a big self hug. We're all in this together.

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Speaker 1: Who baby belove, my baby love. I need you, Oh

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Speaker 1: how I need you. Thanks for listening. Remember I'm always

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Speaker 1: here for you. What to Expect is always here for you.

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Speaker 1: We're all in this together. For more on what you

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Speaker 1: heard on today's episode, visit what to Expect dot com

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00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: slash podcast. You can also check out what to Expect

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Speaker 1: when You're expecting, What to Expect the first Year, and

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Speaker 1: the what to Expect app And we want to hear

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00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: from you connect with us on our community message board

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00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 1: or on our social media. You can find me at

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00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: Heidi Murkoff and Emma at Emma bing w t E

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Speaker 1: and of course at What to Expect. Baby Love is

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00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: performed by Riley Peter. What to Expect is a production

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Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. From More shows from I Heart

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00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: Radio check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,

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00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In my

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Speaker 1: arms right, don't You Stay? Knija Knija, Baby Boo, Babyl