1 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: When I book guests for this show, I tell them 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: it's a mostly non political podcast. I have said that 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: since the start that I want this to be a 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: podcast about life. I want to hear who people are 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: and what they do, what they believe. Sure, but I 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: never want it to be the news of the day 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: show where we cover the latest thing that Donald Trump 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: or Joe Biden said and what my guest thinks about that. 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: It's not that I have anything against those shows. They're 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: just exist already, and I didn't want to add to that. 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: That said, I am a political person in my everyday life. 13 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: I'm an open conservative, I'm a public person. I'm a 14 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 1: Twitter addict. I love the election, horse race, all of it. 15 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: So it's a challenge sometimes to keep all of that 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: off of this show. The main thing to me in 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: making this podcast was there are a million shows about 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 1: a million things where the host is liberal. They all 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: come from a liberal perspective and that doesn't get discussed whatsoever. 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: It's like being liberal is the default. They have publishing 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: houses that publish their books. For example, we have conservative 22 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: publishing houses. They have news sites. We have conservative news sites. 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: I didn't like any of that, and I want this 24 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: show to challenge that the show is going to come 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: with conservative assumptions, because again I'm conservative. I think marriage 26 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: is good, family is good, career success is good, and 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: nothing to apologize for all of it. In another time, 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: these wouldn't even be seen as conservative ideas, but now 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: they are, and they are what I I'm not going 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: to hit you over the head with my political angle, 31 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: but it's there, just like it is in every single 32 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: other show you listen to or watch. I say all 33 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: this only because my audience is growing very grateful for that, 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: and I want to be clear about what I'm trying 35 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: to do here. This is a podcast about purposeful living, 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: how to have a good life, how to meet cultural 37 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: challenges when you see them, how to be happier. I 38 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: love hearing what my listeners think, so if you have thoughts, 39 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: including potential future guests who you want to hear me interview, 40 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: let me know. Also, when i hit the one year 41 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: mark of this show in October, I'm going to switch 42 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: up my three standard questions, So if you have ideas 43 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: for what they should be, write to me. If you 44 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: have tips, for better living. Send them in let's improve 45 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: our lives together. The email is Carol Maarkowitz Show at 46 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: gmail dot com or tweet at me on X. Thank 47 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: you for listening. Coming up next and interview with James Lindsay. 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: Join us after the break. Welcome back to the Carol 49 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is James Lindsay. 50 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: James is a leading expert on critical race theory, the 51 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: founder of New Discourse his website, and the author of 52 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: approximately ten books, his latest one being Queering of the 53 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: American Child. Hi James, Hey, Carol, so nice to have 54 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: you on. I have to say that I was trying 55 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: to remember when I first heard of you, and I think, 56 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: although I can't, I might have even been before this, 57 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: but I think it was when you, along with some others, 58 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: submitted some hoax articles to academic journals. It was a 59 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: number of years ago, and because your fake articles fit 60 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: their ideological mold, they published them. So which one was 61 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: your favorite fake article? 62 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's so funny to ask, because it 63 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: really it depends on my mood. They're also funny. I mean, 64 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: there were a couple of them that were just stupid, 65 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: so not those, but it really depends on my mood. 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: I mean the most famous. 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: How many of them did you get in? Seven? 68 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: Seven were accepted for publication. Four of them actually got 69 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: published because there's a long delay. It's a time delay 70 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: between acceptance and publication. Sometimes it takes a year they 71 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: say yeah, we'll publish your article, and a year later 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: it comes out. So seven were accepted, four were published. 73 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: One of them, which is the infamous paper about dog 74 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 2: parks and activity at dog parks, was given an award 75 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 2: for Excellence in scholarship. Seven more were still under peer review. 76 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 2: We had a sociologist look at those. Well, we didn't 77 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: put them up to it. He did it on his 78 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 2: own and wrote an article right after it all came 79 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 2: out in twenty eighteen and said that he anticipated that 80 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: either eleven or twelve of the twenty we wrote would 81 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: have been accepted. 82 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: Can you tell my listeners what the dog park article 83 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:57,159 Speaker 1: was about? 84 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, rape culture is a major problem woman's 85 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 2: society according to feminists, and that we apparently we live 86 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: in a rape culture. I've yet to find anybody who 87 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: endorses rape, but apparently that's the culture we live in. 88 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: And feminists are always interested in figuring out a how 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: we can id better identify that problem and be overcome it. 90 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 2: And so we wrote a paper saying that a great 91 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: way to identify human support for rape culture was to 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: go to the dog park and watch how humans reacted 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 2: to dogs humping each other at the dog park. And 94 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: so it was it male on male, male on female, 95 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: female on female, what kind of what was going on? 96 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: How did men and women, straight and gay respond to 97 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: seeing this? And we just made up a lot of 98 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: insane data that could not possibly be true. And for example, 99 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: that we watched dogs for one thousand hours in the 100 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: dog parks in Portland, Oregon, over the course of a 101 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: single year, but never in the rain. And it's like, 102 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: what that's honestly, that's four or five hours a day 103 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: for a work week, every single day for a year, 104 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: but never in the rain in Portland. And it's like, 105 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: this is just insane. And we claim that we have 106 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 2: observed ten thousand dogs. That's not how dog parks work. 107 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: It's like the same twenty dogs from the neighborhood come 108 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: in every day, and so it's just completely insane. But 109 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: we decided that you could determine, of course that straight 110 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: men were like when it was a male dog and 111 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: a female dog, it was like get them boy, you know, 112 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: they're all into it. So that's rape culture, right, and 113 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 2: everybody else was horrified, and so obviously there's a major problem. 114 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: And so we concluded that the way that we could 115 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 2: overcome rape culture is that well, dog training works to 116 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: moderate dog behavior. So if we were to take straight 117 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 2: men and train them the way that we trained dogs, 118 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: using obedience manuals and leashes and so on, then we 119 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: could overcome the similar problem in human environments like nightclubs. 120 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: And they bought it. It's just, I mean, unbelievable. 121 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: So you ask, which was like, that's so funny, Like 122 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: what am I supposed to do with this? 123 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 1: Right? 124 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 2: It's so preposterous. But there were other ones that are 125 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: I mean, they have extraordinarily some of them extraordinarily adult themes. 126 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 2: So it's like I can't really talk about them very easily, 127 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: but I can't even look at them without laughing. One 128 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: that doesn't that's also very funny is that on New 129 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: Year's Eve twenty seventeen, I started having some wine or 130 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: something or champagne, I don't know, in the afternoon, late 131 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: afternoon evening and sat down, and in six hours I 132 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: wrote this poetic inquiry. It's called where I wrote these 133 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: bogus poems. I actually had the Internet generate bad poetry generator, 134 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: and I just kind of modified them a little bit. 135 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 2: And I claimed that as it was an exploration of 136 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 2: feminist spirituality, But what I really did was pretended I 137 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: was a bitter divorced feminist who hates her ex husband 138 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: and wrote about these meetings I go to that are preposterous, 139 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 2: that celebrate the female genitalia, the female expression, and tap 140 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: into feminine spirituality as a way to cope with divorce 141 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: in how awful men are, And that got accepted in 142 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: a journal, very small journal. But it's ordinarily funny, and 143 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: I don't know how like it's just I don't know 144 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: how to pick a favorite, given how funny some of 145 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: them are. And the X rated ones honestly are the 146 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 2: funniest ones, but they're are we to talk about. 147 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: So why do you think they bought it so completely? 148 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Is it just like, you know, stupidity, because you seemed 149 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: on their side. 150 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, because we're on their side, that's it. They 151 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: don't actually what's happening, the crisis that we're seeing of 152 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: academics in the academy is not merely a plagiarism problem. 153 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 2: It's that the entire departments. It's not all departments, it's 154 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 2: not all academics, And there are other problems. The replication 155 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: crisis and the social sciences is its own problem. The 156 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: incentives are all wrong. That's its own problem. But in 157 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: these domains, which are best described as the theoretical humanities, 158 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 2: they don't know what they're doing. They don't know how 159 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: to authenticate whether research is good or not. There are 160 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 2: no benchmarks, they don't defer to data, they don't understand 161 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: or use rigorous methodologies, and so the only criteria that 162 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: they have to select papers is A does it reflect 163 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: well I already know in the literature. B does it 164 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: flatter my biases? And see is it well written? That's 165 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: all they have to decide, and we luckily have a 166 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: confession that that's sort of what was going on. One 167 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: of the papers we wrote was an exploration of masculinity 168 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: at Hooters restaurants, and so we wrote this completely asinine, 169 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 2: you know, story about how we went to Hooters after 170 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: our martial arts club every week, and I recorded for 171 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: our you know, every time we went to hooters the 172 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 2: whole time. We recorded it on a tape recorder and 173 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: I coded out how sexist and all this and the 174 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: reason men go to hooters, we concluded, was primarily to 175 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: order pun to give young women orders that they have 176 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 2: to follow out. And so it was like really, but 177 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: so it's all this dominance and all this, and it 178 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: was really like, you know, the waitress would come by 179 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: and I would say that we said, these really lude things, 180 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: and there was all these you know, crass you know, 181 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: appeals to masculinity, like how hot is a hot sauce 182 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: we can handle? And crude conversation and it was very dumb. 183 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 2: But we write this and then it ends up going 184 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 2: to the journal Men in Masculinities because we were studying 185 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 2: the masculinity. It turns out a feminist was one of 186 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: the peer reviewers, and she got very angry, even though 187 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: it was a masculinity's journal and a paper about the masculinity, 188 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: that we didn't write the paper focusing on the exploitation 189 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: of women in hooters, So first of all, it didn't 190 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: flatter her biases, so it got rejected from the Masculinities journal, 191 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: even though it was a masculiniti's paper, it didn't focus 192 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 2: on feminism. So then it turns around and gets sent 193 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: off to a journal called Sex Roles, which is sort 194 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: of interdisciplinary. It's actually very big, and the editor of 195 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: the journal actually kind of nonstandard practice left commentary, you know, 196 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: like the comments you can add on a Google dot 197 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: or a on a not Google but word document, left commentary, 198 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 2: and one of the comments at the very end was, 199 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: you know, on paraphrasing, but I'm pretty close to quoting 200 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 2: from memory. It's been five years, six years. And she said, 201 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: I've never been to one of these places, but I 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: always knew they were bad. I just didn't know they 203 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: were this bad. It's like, well, there you go. It's 204 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: all flattering biases. 205 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: It's what you thought, it's what she thought was going 206 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: on there. She held, that's right, fuilled in the blanks. 207 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 208 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. So I feel like 209 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: I know what you're going to say to this. But 210 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, a question I ask all of my guests 211 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: is what do you think is our largest cultural problem? 212 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 2: We have a couple, don't we, uh, one or two? 213 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: I expect that you predict what I'm going to say 214 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: here correctly, which is that we are under the provocation 215 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 2: of an attempted cultural revolution, a communist cultural revolution. I 216 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: think that this provocation is mostly coming from inside the house. 217 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: In fact, I believe our intelligence communities are more involved 218 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: in it then foreign enemies. But we do have the 219 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 2: problem of foreign influence. There are I think both Russian 220 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: and Chinese operators working in that. We're now seeing with 221 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: what's going on campus that Qatar is one of the 222 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: major funders, so we know that there's the kind of 223 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 2: that Middle Eastern Arabic axis of you know, militant Islamists 224 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: that are also running influence campaigns. But I think that 225 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: the majority of the problem is actually coming from inside 226 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 2: the house. We see that with the FBI targeting parents 227 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 2: while letting cells of domestic terrorism go kind of unchecked. 228 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: So that's I think the biggest cultural problem we face 229 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 2: is that provocation and the psychological operations of propaganda operations 230 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: that are being fed to us through what we call 231 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: the corporate press or the fake news media. Because and 232 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: I do think that that's when you say the culture 233 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,320 Speaker 2: the question was cultural problem, and I could point to 234 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: the miseducation of youth, and all of these are so 235 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: many factors, but the deranging effect of relentless rum beating 236 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 2: propaganda with a single voice right across the media is 237 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 2: causing the majority of the cultural problems that we're facing 238 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: in the United States, in my opinion, Do you have. 239 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: Any optimism of it turning around? I mean, you've exposed 240 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: so much of it. Do you feel like it's gotten 241 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: better at all? 242 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 2: I mean it's intensifying. I do think it's getting better, 243 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: and I'm actually relentlessly optimistic. Maybe I have faith. I 244 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 2: have no idea. I feel like I travel the country 245 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: and tell religious people that they don't have enough faith. Frankly, 246 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: the fact is, I actually am quite optimistic. I don't 247 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: think it's going to solve itself, and I don't think 248 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 2: it's going to resolve comfortably. I'm not saying that it's 249 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: going to resolve unpeaceably. I just think that we're going 250 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: to face more tribulation, if you will. Not to draw 251 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: a biblical word here, but you know, the joke here is. 252 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: That James is very famously an atheist. 253 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 2: That's right. 254 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: I am very famous religious themes though. 255 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: Well, I'm good, I'm good at the Bible apparently, is 256 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 2: what I'm learning. But yeah, so I think that I'm 257 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: not saying that I think that some kind of like 258 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: crazy war is going to erupt. I don't know that 259 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 2: that's the case. I don't suspect that that's the case. 260 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I do think that we're 261 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: going to be visited with more discomforts. We had a 262 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: pandemic that was a discomfort. What its origins were are 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: a question. How it was handled is not a question. 264 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: It was intentionally mishandled, and we're almost completely clear on that. 265 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: They talk about ziz cyber attacks. So something huge, computer problems, 266 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: we see the rising tide of military activity, something uncomfortable 267 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: is going to happen. I'm quite certain between now and 268 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: the end, But I'm actually pretty optimistic because people are awake. 269 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: Not everybody's the biggest fan of Donald Trump. I'm sort 270 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: of a fan, But frankly, his greatest contribution of all 271 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: the things, so far as I'm aware to this day, 272 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: is still his phrase fake news. Identifying that there is 273 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: this propaganda operation, even if we can't quite free ourselves 274 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: from it as a as a society has been extraordinarily 275 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: beneficial in kind of stepping back from the ledge that 276 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: it wants to drive us over? 277 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: Am I right that fake news was actually first used 278 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: to attack. 279 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: Him, wasn't it? Like? 280 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he just turned it around. 281 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: It was Donald Trump verbal judo. He got told that 282 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: he was propagating fake news, and he was like, your 283 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: fake news, and it was stuck the other direction. 284 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: You're rubber, I'm glue. But it works. I mean he's 285 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: able to do it well. 286 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: The thing is is that what they were saying to 287 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 2: him was a crafted lie, and when he said it back, 288 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 2: it was true. So it stuck. 289 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So what would you be doing if you 290 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: weren't doing this? What would be a backup life plan? 291 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a really good question. There's a lot 292 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: of circumstances in terms of how that might shake out, 293 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: Like did I get canceled, in which case I'm probably 294 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 2: not gonna do anything for I don't know. I mean, 295 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: it's plausible that people would stop inviting me to speak 296 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 2: or do things or whatever, or that my primary income 297 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: base would fall out from under me or whatever. But 298 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 2: in that case, nothing for a while. Figure out my 299 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 2: bases before this, I was a massage therapist. I was 300 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 2: doing Yeah, I was, I was licensed I was doing 301 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: you know, anywhere anywhere between eight and fifteen massages a week, 302 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: primarily trying to cure chronic pain in my clientele. So 303 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 2: maybe I would be doing that. 304 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,240 Speaker 1: Still as interesting idea. That's amazing. What made you get 305 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: into that? Well? 306 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: When I was in my early twenties, I used to 307 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 2: do a lot of fighting, like martial arts fight, but 308 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: I did like fights right for money and whatnot. And 309 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: I was training. I wasn't even in a fight. I 310 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: don't have this cool story. I was literally at the gym. 311 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 2: I was literally just doing a very basic like roll 312 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 2: back to your shoulders, roll up onto your butt, kind 313 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 2: of like rocking extra size to like strengthen abdominals as 314 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 2: a coordination if you end up on your back to 315 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: get back to your feet, you know, in different ways. 316 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: It's just a basic warm up exercise. It wasn't meant 317 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: to really achieve anything. There was nobody else involved, there 318 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: was no fighting. And I rolled back and I came 319 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 2: back forward and I was like, ah, my back and 320 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: my back went like completely dysfunctional. And it stayed that 321 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: way for a long time and I couldn't figure it out. 322 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 2: I didn't know how to fix it. Periodically it would 323 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: go out tremendous pain relegated to the floor for a 324 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 2: couple of weeks at a time, you know, just awful 325 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 2: and always stiff, always fragile, always hurt. And then in 326 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 2: my late twenties, I finally discovered this massage technique through 327 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: a friend who did it to me and then told 328 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 2: me to buy a book to train it myself. Learning 329 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: to do it to myself. It's called trigger point Therapy, 330 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 2: and the book was called the Trigger Point Therapy work Book. 331 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: This easy little book I bought for twenty dollars or whatever, 332 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: brought a couple of tools, tennis balls, this thing called 333 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 2: the therapne. I worked on myself for about six or 334 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: seven eight months, and I fixed my back. What had happened, 335 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: and unbeknownst to me, is that I had tight hip 336 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: flectures and when I rolled back, I triggered my hip 337 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: flextures to go into a spasm that basically never resolved. 338 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 2: And so when I finally was able to work out 339 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 2: the chronic tension and problems in my trigger points technically 340 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 2: in my iliosoas muscles, I fixed my back pain. I 341 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 2: had other issues that had come up kind of subsequent 342 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: to it that I had to work out, and it 343 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: took a lot of repetition to get it straightened out. 344 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: So when I finished my PhD, I was fed up 345 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: with academia. I didn't want to continue in academia. I 346 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 2: did not want to be in that machine. So I thought, well, 347 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 2: what can I do with my life? And I thought, well, 348 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: I have this technique. And my wife was a massage therapist, 349 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: so she was like, you're good at this. Why don't 350 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 2: you just get a license and do it and help 351 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 2: people out of their pain. There's a lot of people 352 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 2: in pain. And I thought, well, that's a good idea, 353 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: and so I did so. 354 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, like, I what a way to 355 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: find something that you're good at is you know, to 356 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: fix it in yourself first. That's impressive. I didn't know 357 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: you were married either. I feel like you're pretty private 358 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: on social I. 359 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 2: Try to be private about the whole family thing. Yes, 360 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: I am approaching what is it the second of May 361 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 2: that we're recording this. I met my wife on the 362 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: fourth of May two thousand and four, So I met 363 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 2: my wife twenty years ago. When this comes out. 364 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: So do you feel like you've made it? 365 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 2: Yes? Sort of? I mean so I had some weird metrics. 366 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: How do I know that I made it? Here are 367 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 2: two that have occurred to me because I don't know 368 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 2: I'm making it means, but there are certain signs. It's 369 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: like if I win the lottery, I won't tell anybody, 370 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: but there'll be signs that whole meme. Well, there are signs. 371 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 2: Here's a sign if I wear a T shirt that 372 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 2: has some graphics on it in public and somebody puts 373 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: a picture and I put it on social media, it 374 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the T shirt is. If I go 375 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: Google my name, within one hour, there will be one hundred, 376 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: like you know, junkie scammy T shirt site selling that 377 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 2: shirt wow available on So I'm somebody, You've made it. 378 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 2: Anything that I wear they go rip off. If it's 379 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 2: my own shirts, like my own design, they rip them off. 380 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 2: If it's somebody else's is that it's like they're a business, 381 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: they rip them off. But then the ultimate proof came 382 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: the other day and this is a little racye. I apologize, 383 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 2: but I guess you can handle it. I got sent 384 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:14,640 Speaker 2: my brother in law sent me screenshots, so I haven't 385 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: seen this myself. When I went on Joe Rogan's podcast. 386 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: About a month ago, I wore a shirt set American Masculinity. 387 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 2: The phenomenon happened. It was all over the place. But 388 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: this is new. My brother in law sent me screenshots. 389 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 2: There is a company that sells mail enhancement pills that 390 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 2: has deep faked my presentation on Rogan into claiming that 391 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 2: these pills worked for me. And I figure, if my 392 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: image and AI version of my voice is now being 393 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: used to sell mail enhancement pills, I'm somebody. You really 394 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 2: have me fact, I must be very masculine or something. 395 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's it. That's impressive. I really feel 396 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: like that's peak, you know, making it. 397 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: That's about as good as it gets, right, I mean, 398 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 2: I get recognized. There are other little things. Virtually every 399 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 2: time I pass through a major airport, I have to 400 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: stop and say hi to somebody. And you know, I 401 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: just flew through the Denver Airport twice on a trip 402 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 2: that I took, and in both passages, I ran into 403 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: somebody that recognized me and wanted to talk to me. 404 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: So that happens virtually every time. 405 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: Now, do you ever get like negative meetings or. 406 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 2: It's always no, not in person they've all been positive. Yeah, 407 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 2: so far, at least in person. Maybe people that don't 408 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: like me do recognize me, but if they do, they 409 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 2: haven't said anything, which is fine, So no, not yet. 410 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: Well I love that. I hope that continues. I also 411 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: don't get very Actually, I don't think I've ever had 412 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: a negative run in with a stranger. Anyway. I love 413 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: talking to end here with your best tip for my 414 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: listeners on how they can improve their lives. 415 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to give a kind of a double 416 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: tip because there's sort of two parts to improving your life, 417 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: maybe three. Unfortunately, sorry, I got lots of advice. First 418 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 2: thing is first one. Just this wasn't the one I 419 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 2: was gonna say. This is the third one, but I'm 420 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 2: gonna say it first. What happens online is fake. It's 421 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 2: all fake. It's contour to be fake. It's not real relationships. 422 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad that we've connected online and we're 423 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: having the show and we'll probably meet at some point 424 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 2: in person and we grow a friendship. That's fine. There 425 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: are good things that come out of online, but you 426 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: can't mistake online for reality. You're way, You're always going 427 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 2: to be way. Happier and better off the more of 428 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 2: actual reality and the less of digital reality. And I 429 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 2: mean this especially for younger people who are like looking 430 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: to date, Like get off the dating apps. Go meet 431 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 2: somebody in real life if you don't know where to 432 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: find them. Try going to church, something like that, a 433 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: join a club, something that's doing something. Get involved in 434 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 2: a political campaign. Trying to meet people in person. That's 435 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: a really big deal. Having that in person action. Dating 436 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: or not get together with people in person, it's a 437 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 2: really big deal. 438 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: Touch grass. 439 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 2: That's That's probably the biggest better life advice that I 440 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 2: could give. The other the two other pieces were if 441 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: you're not reading, you're probably not getting it. You need 442 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: to read. I know, I'm a boy. I don't like 443 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 2: to read. You need to read. But it's not enough 444 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 2: to just sit around and read. You've got to go 445 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: do something. It's sort of related to the get off 446 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 2: the internet. You have to get involved. Like everything that 447 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 2: I have had in success to where now that I'm 448 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: the digital deep fake face for mail enhancement pills has 449 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 2: come from the fact that I got myself out there 450 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 2: that I started just I didn't just sit home reading 451 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: about woke stuff. I started talking about it and started 452 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: doing something. I got involved, and there's different ways different 453 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 2: people get involved. I'm not going to tell you that 454 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: you need to do what I do, but you need 455 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: to be informed about what's going on and you need 456 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 2: to be doing something. Your life will improve. You will 457 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 2: have growth if you're getting out out there and doing 458 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 2: things and you have an informed basis from what you're 459 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: doing it. It will not if you stay at home 460 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: and stagnate. And so I guess those three pieces kind 461 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: of tie together because if you're just sitting there scrolling 462 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: social media and you're right in your time off, you're 463 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: not going anywhere, yeah. 464 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: And you're not doing anything despite the fact that you 465 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: feel like you're doing something. I enjoy the social. 466 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 2: Med We have a whole show about that about oh, 467 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: how you think like you're a little lonely so, but 468 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: you're tired because it's been a long day, and you're 469 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: a little bit depressed because you're lonely. So you get 470 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 2: on social media and you're like, oh, I'm having social 471 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: interaction and then you put down your phone. It's not 472 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 2: very satisfying because you actually didn't interact with anybody in reality, 473 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 2: and probably somebody called you a name because of social media, 474 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 2: and like you feel worse and so there's like this 475 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 2: whole cycle of depression and anxiety that's connected to being us. 476 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,959 Speaker 2: Oh we could talk for hours. 477 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: Yes, well, touch grass, you know, go outside, meet people 478 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: in real life. I really like that advice. Thanks so 479 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: much for coming on, James. You are amazing. I always 480 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: enjoy reading your stuff. Thank you, James. 481 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: Lindsay, thank you. 482 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on The Carol Marcowitz Show. 483 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.