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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about why you should retire on the reg with Jillian John's.

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Speaker 3: Rude Yeah, you know, I think one of the biggest

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Speaker 3: hurdles to overcome here in the United States, but not

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Speaker 3: just like in our country, but also even for regular

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Speaker 3: listeners on the podcast is the word retirement, because, like,

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Speaker 3: what do you think of when you hear that someone

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Speaker 3: is retiring, Like I know, I think of someone who's

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Speaker 3: maybe a bit older, they're at least past their prime,

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Speaker 3: They've put in several decades of hard work and now

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Speaker 3: they're just totally hanging it up. And then on top

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Speaker 3: of that, if you attempt to picture yourself in that situation,

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Speaker 3: I think it's often so far away that it's difficult

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Speaker 3: to even have any connection to that future version of yourself.

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Speaker 3: But these are the types of problems that our friend

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Speaker 3: Jillian loves to help walk folks through. She writes over

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Speaker 3: at retire often dot com, she hosts podcast by the

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Speaker 3: same name, and as a mother of a bunch of children,

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Speaker 3: Jillian herself grew up in poverty. She wants folks to

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Speaker 3: know that many retirement is more of a possibility than

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Speaker 3: you think. And so we're excited to talk about retiring

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Speaker 3: on the RAG. We're excited to talk about sabbaticals with

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Speaker 3: Jillian today. Jillian, thank you for joining the podcast.

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Speaker 4: I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 2: We're excited to have you back. We were just talking

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Speaker 2: about how you were I think our first for real guests,

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Speaker 2: Uh huh had the money back in the day. This

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Speaker 2: was many, many years ago. Yeah, so it's fun to

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Speaker 2: get to talk to you again like this. But the

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Speaker 2: first question we won't link to that episode. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: Jillian had a lot of good things to say, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure she did.

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Speaker 3: But just given awkward, man, we were so fresh and

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Speaker 3: green at that point that it pains me to even

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Speaker 3: think about that conversation.

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Speaker 1: Hure percentury.

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Speaker 2: So, Jilly, I don't even remember what you said when

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Speaker 2: we asked you this question, and I'm pretty sure we're

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Speaker 2: asking this question even if.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know if you want I don't even know.

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Speaker 2: But the question we ask now everybody who comes on

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Speaker 2: the show is what's your craft beer equivalent? What is

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Speaker 2: it that you are spending more money on than some

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Speaker 2: people would think is sane? While you're being smart and

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Speaker 2: saving and investing for your future at the same time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's gardening. It's plants. I go to nurseries and

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Speaker 4: home depot and lows and it's like it's pretend money.

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Speaker 4: It might as well be monopoly money. I don't even

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Speaker 4: think of it as real. The only limitation that I

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Speaker 4: put on myself when it comes to plants is I

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Speaker 4: have to eventually be able to plant them in the ground.

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Speaker 4: So like my physical labor is kind of the parameters

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Speaker 4: of how many how many plants I purchase. It's also

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Speaker 4: my stress purchasing, Like if I'm having a really bad week,

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Speaker 4: I go and buy seeds online or the I order trees.

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Speaker 4: It's also, yeah, kind of my impulse stress purchase.

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Speaker 3: So, speaking of seeds, have you ever heard of or

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Speaker 3: ordered from, or been to. I think it's called Bakersfield

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Speaker 3: Seed Bank or something like that.

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Speaker 1: It's out in.

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Speaker 3: California and literally Kate and I were getting into gardening

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Speaker 3: when we were out there on a road trip and

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Speaker 3: it was literally an old timey bank. It's like this

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Speaker 3: like picture green gots that they converted into a seed bank,

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Speaker 3: and it was goblins run things there too. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: goblins with green pounds. But they've got like a lot

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Speaker 3: of heirloom varieties and stuff like that.

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Speaker 4: I was on my phone yesterday and my mom's like,

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Speaker 4: are you looking at sheds? I was like, no, this

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Speaker 4: is my secret Instagram account that is just entirely plants

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Speaker 4: and gardeners. That's that's all I've curated over here.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. Okay.

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Speaker 3: I feel like at least my wife and you, Jillian

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Speaker 3: could talk about plants all day.

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Speaker 1: For sure. I certainly help her out. I think I

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Speaker 1: think some of the bigger holes.

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Speaker 3: But we're going to talk about retiring, and let's start

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Speaker 3: with definitions. Retiring often that is such a passion of yours,

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Speaker 3: But what exact fact is it?

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Speaker 1: Like what do you.

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Speaker 3: Define as a the frequency of retiring, and like what

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Speaker 3: do you how do you define many retirements specifically.

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Speaker 2: Especially because vacations, right, that's vacation many retirement.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I have kind of three parameters for what

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Speaker 4: classifies as a mini retirement, and I use the terms interchangeably.

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Speaker 4: Whether it's many retirements, sabbatical, career break, hiatus. All of

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Speaker 4: them are good. But the three things is that it's

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Speaker 4: a month or longer you're stepping away from your primary

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Speaker 4: career to focus on something that really matters to you.

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Speaker 4: And if you have those three elements, for my own

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Speaker 4: personal definition, I consider that a mini retirement.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So a vacation typically in the US at least

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Speaker 2: is like a week once a year, maybe twice a

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Speaker 2: year if you're one of the lucky folks. We Matt

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Speaker 2: and I lament about the statistics that most people don't

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Speaker 2: take all their vacation time. It's really it's really sad.

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Speaker 2: And if it's less, if it's a short period of time,

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Speaker 2: that typically means that you're not disconnecting from work in

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Speaker 2: the way you need to to kind of reset your

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Speaker 2: brain and get some actual rest. So is that part

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Speaker 2: of why the month is such an important parameter a

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Speaker 2: month or longer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a kind of physical down shift to help

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Speaker 4: people get into that state of rest. And I find

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Speaker 4: when people are really burned out, you know, it's adrenaline

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Speaker 4: and it's cortisol, and they're running at this heightened state.

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Speaker 4: And just like taking caffeine, the minute you stop drinking

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Speaker 4: your coffee, the caffeine does not leave your system. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's a time period before you kind of start to

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Speaker 4: settle down. And it's the same with work. The minute

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Speaker 4: you walk out of the office, you're not completely self regulated.

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Speaker 4: So I find usually around week two or week three

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Speaker 4: people really start to relax and settle in. But a

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Speaker 4: month is also enough time to do something really significant

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Speaker 4: and interesting in with your time.

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Speaker 3: So first of all, I love that you've defined the

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Speaker 3: fact that there's like a half life to your work.

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Speaker 1: Once you step away from it, just like there is

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Speaker 1: with Cavin.

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Speaker 3: But on your podcast, like you've interviewed a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of folks about this, and I'm curious, like, what have

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Speaker 3: those folks mentioned as being I guess that maybe the

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Speaker 3: best part of their time stepping away, or maybe could

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Speaker 3: you share some good, just encouraging or inspirational examples of

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Speaker 3: what some folks were able to accomplish, or maybe some

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Speaker 3: life decisions that were made, or maybe they found.

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Speaker 1: Themselves out of just like kind of fork in the road.

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Speaker 3: I would love to for you to share some examples

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Speaker 3: from the folks that you've talked with on your podcast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, I have my podcast. I do one on

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Speaker 4: one end group coaching, so I get to have lots

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Speaker 4: and lots of these conversations and I always encourage people

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Speaker 4: to pick kind of three intentions or three goals for

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Speaker 4: their time, because there can be a temptation of I

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Speaker 4: have this huge backlog of things, and I'm going to

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Speaker 4: accomplish thirty different things during this time off, and because

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Speaker 4: you don't have that focus, none of it really feels

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Speaker 4: like you made good progress or really significant. So pick

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Speaker 4: kind of three. I would say the top ones are

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Speaker 4: extended travel, you know, things that you can't really do

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Speaker 4: in a four day or seven day vacation. I met

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Speaker 4: a couple ones who were biking through Croatia, like an

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Speaker 4: amazing trip, but it's not a four day weekend travel.

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Speaker 4: Extended travel, it's not doing something really cool and interesting

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Speaker 4: with their kids, having real quality time. You know. I

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Speaker 4: did a ten week trip in a pop up camper

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Speaker 4: through ten national parks with my kid. I was a

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Speaker 4: few years ago. There again, not something I can fit

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Speaker 4: in into two weeks vacation, but really significant. In America,

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Speaker 4: recovering from burnout rest burnout's a massive issue, so that

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Speaker 4: hits the top of a lot of people's priority focusing

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Speaker 4: on their health, whether that's losing weight or training for

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Speaker 4: a marathon, or even their mental health. You know, trying

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Speaker 4: to go to therapy and get some of that stuff

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Speaker 4: unpacked can be really helpful. A lot of people use

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Speaker 4: it for a career transition too, you know, they're in

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Speaker 4: that midpoint to their career where they're like, wait, am

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Speaker 4: I really going to do this for the rest of

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Speaker 4: my life? Like? Do I have another twenty years of

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Speaker 4: this in me? But when you're burned out and when

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Speaker 4: you're overwhelmed with work, it's really hard to imagine what

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Speaker 4: else is even out there, what else might you enjoy?

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Speaker 4: And so they need kind of that decompression time to

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Speaker 4: recover from burnout, to just have the creativity to explore

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Speaker 4: new options.

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Speaker 2: So you kind of hinted at our work obsessed culture,

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Speaker 2: and it's just kind of a barrier, I would think,

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Speaker 2: just convincing people that this is a good idea. When

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Speaker 2: we're on this kind of Hampshire wheel merry go round,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to just jump off. So do

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Speaker 2: you find that as an obstacle trying to people understand

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Speaker 2: that this is as a necessity in the first place.

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Speaker 4: You know, I think a lot of people intuitively know

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Speaker 4: that they need a break or that they want to break.

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Speaker 4: It's not hard to convince someone of like, hey, would

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Speaker 4: you like to spend a month in France? Or you know,

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Speaker 4: do you do you want to buy a bike right

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Speaker 4: across the country or build out your garden for a month,

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Speaker 4: you know, whatever people are passionate about. And the reality is,

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Speaker 4: with our modern work culture, those hobbies, those interests, those

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Speaker 4: things that we want to pursue, those things that matter

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Speaker 4: to us sometimes get entirely squeezed out of life. There's

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Speaker 4: just not enough time. There's not enough hours in the day,

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Speaker 4: there's not enough vacation days to do those in meaningful ways,

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Speaker 4: which starts to exasperate this problem in that our work

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Speaker 4: occupies so much of our life that it becomes so

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Speaker 4: much of our identity and it's tough to build an

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Speaker 4: identity outside of work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely agree. We talk about this all the time.

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Speaker 3: How gosh, this makes me even think of something I

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Speaker 3: read recently too about work crushes and how they're like

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Speaker 3: very common because of course, when you are spending so

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Speaker 3: much time at work, it's like you have individuals that

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Speaker 3: you're drawn to. But that's like a whole other conversation.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's usually rules about that not dating in the workplace,

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Speaker 2: and people are like.

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Speaker 1: What am I supposed to do? This is where I'm

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Speaker 1: spending most.

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Speaker 3: Of the You're spending all your time there, and so

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Speaker 3: it makes sense that, like relationally and emotionally, you feel

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Speaker 3: pulled in that direction. But of course when it comes

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Speaker 3: to your skill sets and the things that you are

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Speaker 3: spending your time doing, it makes sense that you get

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Speaker 3: really good at doing your job, and so it's hard

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Speaker 3: to disentangle like our identity from the work that we're doing.

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Speaker 3: But like, I think one of the reasons folks have

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Speaker 3: a hard time pulling away is because they're practically thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: if I prioritize a many retirement, that's going to hurt

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Speaker 3: my career. It's going to hurt my earning potential. What

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Speaker 3: would you say to somebody who's who's making that argument,

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Speaker 3: Because I don't know, maybe I'm leading the witness here,

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Speaker 3: but almost feel like that there's an argument to be

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Speaker 3: made for the opposite that perhaps because I mean, you've

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Speaker 3: already mentioned how they can foster career transition, but just

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Speaker 3: talk to us about that about career potential or just

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Speaker 3: the career path that someone might be on and trying

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Speaker 3: to escape that hamster wheel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because it is a little counterintuitive, but

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Speaker 4: over and over I've seen the pattern of a mini

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Speaker 4: retirement accelerating their professional growth and accelerating their financial progress,

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Speaker 4: which it does feel a little counterintuitive, but on the

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Speaker 4: professional side, I think it's I think it's pretty well

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Speaker 4: known that one of the best ways to get a

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Speaker 4: twenty to thirty percent raise is to switch jobs, and

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Speaker 4: a mini retirement provides the perfect motivation and kind of

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Speaker 4: the perfect rest opportunity in between those jobs. So, especially

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Speaker 4: if you're early in your career and you're going to

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Speaker 4: be switching company every three or four years, that's a

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Speaker 4: perfect little little moment in time that you can take

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Speaker 4: a month or two to focus on these other areas

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Speaker 4: of your life. And there's a really interesting phenomenon that

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Speaker 4: I never would have guessed until I started having hundreds

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Speaker 4: of conversations with people about this. But it makes people

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Speaker 4: really uncomfortable when you're not working. There's something about the

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Speaker 4: work culture that it just feels wrong you not working,

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Speaker 4: them still working and you not working is very, very uncomfortable,

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Speaker 4: and sometimes it's subconscious. But when you step away from

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Speaker 4: a job and you don't jump into a brand new job,

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Speaker 4: a whole bunch of people start trying to get you

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Speaker 4: a job. They try to like fix this, whether you

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Speaker 4: want them to or not. Early retirees experience us all

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Speaker 4: of the time when like everyone and their network's trying

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Speaker 4: to suck them back into corporate life. But there's ways

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Speaker 4: that you can foster that as well, and oftentimes people

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Speaker 4: get much better jobs, I think because that cognitive loop

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Speaker 4: is open and where when jobs come open, they might

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Speaker 4: not think of you if you're happy at a company,

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Speaker 4: but if they're like, oh, isn't Joel off doing that thing?

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Speaker 4: What's he doing? He's in Europe right, he probably wants

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Speaker 4: to get back to work. Maybe we should give him

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Speaker 4: a call, and so you can kind of encourage his

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Speaker 4: natural phenomenon, and people oftentimes get much more interesting jobs,

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Speaker 4: jobs that they're better suited for, and better paying jobs.

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Speaker 4: I hung out with a friend in DC who had

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Speaker 4: just finished a mini retirement and two cool things about

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Speaker 4: this story. One, when he came back to work to

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Speaker 4: his new job, he had a fifty percent raise over

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Speaker 4: his previous job. Wow, he had taken a year off.

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Speaker 4: His sign on bonus covered like half of the cost

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Speaker 4: of his mani retirement. But the other thing was interesting

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Speaker 4: during that time off, he rested, he recovered, he did hobbies,

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Speaker 4: all of that, but he also explored other career options

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Speaker 4: and then started taking classes and getting the certifications that

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Speaker 4: he would need to pivot into a new career and

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Speaker 4: did it well enough that he got a job offer

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Speaker 4: in this new career. Ultimately, he decided to go back

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Speaker 4: to his previous career. But he's like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: I might be here for a year or two and

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Speaker 4: then maybe I will switch careers. Like now I know

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Speaker 4: I can do this.

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Speaker 1: That's cool. Kind of proved it to himself a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love what you said too, just how well,

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Speaker 3: first of all, it would be me making the calls

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Speaker 3: to Joel, just like, dude, you haven't showed up to

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Speaker 3: work in like three months, Like what's the deal.

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Speaker 1: Here, buddy? And I wouldn't take his calls.

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Speaker 3: But that being said, when he did come back, like

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Speaker 3: how interesting of a conversation?

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Speaker 1: What do we have?

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Speaker 3: Like I guess I like the part of it too

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Speaker 3: where it's almost like this forbidden it's this forbidden fruit

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Speaker 3: that before I didn't really care, but now that I

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Speaker 3: can't have you, I want to like we got to,

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Speaker 3: but it's.

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Speaker 2: Almost like kind of how comedians and musicians need to

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Speaker 2: live life in order to make good content right like,

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Speaker 2: and I think the same is true for like life

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Speaker 2: right to be appealing in so many of those ways,

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Speaker 2: you have to go live a little or you just

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Speaker 2: become the person who knows how to do the basic

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Speaker 2: math and not kind of the interesting creative parts of

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Speaker 2: a job.

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Speaker 1: So I see a lot of benefit in that. I'm curious, too, Gilly.

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Speaker 2: You, what about our consumption culture, how does that fuel

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Speaker 2: our inability to take time off? Because think about it,

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Speaker 2: we see the stats people living paycheck to paycheck, even

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Speaker 2: people who make six plus figures. Is just kind of

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Speaker 2: the fact that we don't know how to rein in

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Speaker 2: our spending. Does that prevent us from having some of

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Speaker 2: that financial flexibility to take an extended period of time off.

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Speaker 4: So one of the things that I talk about in

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Speaker 4: my group coaching is this time luxury continuum and the

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Speaker 4: phenomenon that if you have less time, you tend to

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Speaker 4: want more luxury, but if you have more time, you

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Speaker 4: don't really need as much luxury. And so I think

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Speaker 4: it's it ties in with the consumption in that when

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Speaker 4: we have so little time, we have to spend so

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Speaker 4: much money on everything, on having groceries delivered, on convenience food,

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Speaker 4: on ordering new clothes online, Like every part of our

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Speaker 4: life gets more expensive, and when we travel, it gets

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Speaker 4: more expensive to do. You know, a five day trip

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Speaker 4: to Paris for a family of four is a huge cost,

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Speaker 4: probably a similar cost for a family of four to

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Speaker 4: live in France for a month, And so oftentimes when

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Speaker 4: you have more time things aren't is expensive, And so

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Speaker 4: sometimes people try to extrapolate their vacation costs. While a

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Speaker 4: vacation costs me five thousand dollars a week, a month

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Speaker 4: long mini retirement will cost me twenty it will not

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Speaker 4: cost you twenty thousand dollars. Like because you don't have

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Speaker 4: to rush, you don't have to see three sights every day,

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Speaker 4: you don't have to eat out three meals a day

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Speaker 4: for the next thirty days in a row. Most people

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Speaker 4: don't want to eat out ninety meals in a row,

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Speaker 4: so the cost comes down because you can enjoy all

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Speaker 4: of the other elements of life.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree, and I think there's something to be

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Speaker 3: said to in the same way that we get sucked

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Speaker 3: into the work and that keeps us from being able

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Speaker 3: to being able to realize what it is that's making

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Speaker 3: us happy. Sometimes I think we get sucked into the

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Speaker 3: same consumption traps as well. That doesn't allow us to

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Speaker 3: look up from from the grind that we're living in

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Speaker 3: a day in and day out. Jillian, you, as well

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Speaker 3: as a lot of our friends, Joel and I were

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Speaker 3: all kind of a part of the fire community. Whether

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Speaker 3: or not we're like tangent to it or fully in

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Speaker 3: it or not, I guess maybe it depends on the year,

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Speaker 3: But I think there are a lot of folks within

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Speaker 3: that community that might say that a mini retirement, well, hey,

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Speaker 3: that's gonna that's gonna delay my ability to achieve full

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Speaker 3: financial independence. Fat fire. What would you say to those

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Speaker 3: folks who are instead of looking at retirement at age

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Speaker 3: sixty five, You know they've got the noble task of

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Speaker 3: maybe going after it by the age of forty or fifty,

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Speaker 3: but they're so fixated.

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Speaker 1: On their number. What would you say to those folks?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a common hesitation, And honestly, I think

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Speaker 4: many retirements are the perfect compliment to retiring early. And

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Speaker 4: so's there's two kind of ways to look at this. One.

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Speaker 4: If you are early in your financial independence journey. Like

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Speaker 4: I said in the like the three qualifiers for what

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Speaker 4: a mini retirement is. One of them is stepping away

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Speaker 4: from your primary career. That doesn't mean that you have

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Speaker 4: to do nothing. There were too many retirements that we

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Speaker 4: used to buy a rental property and to renovate it.

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Speaker 4: That was a big undertaking for us and it wasn't

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Speaker 4: something that we were able to do alongside our nine

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Speaker 4: to five careers. So we took these two small gaps

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Speaker 4: and that massively accelerated our path too five. Some people

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Speaker 4: use their mini retirement to start a side hustle, to

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Speaker 4: start a side project, to start kind of that business

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Speaker 4: that they've been thinking about but they just didn't have

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Speaker 4: the bandwidth to do it after work. And so you

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Speaker 4: can create additional sources of income. So, especially if you're

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Speaker 4: early in your career or early in your financial journey,

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Speaker 4: I would consider it doesn't have to be a beach

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Speaker 4: in the Caribbean for a month, like there's lots of

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Speaker 4: different things you can do with this time. But the

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Speaker 4: second for the second group, if you're because I've worked

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Speaker 4: with a lot of people who are like seventy percent

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Speaker 4: of the way to find eighty nine and it's like, ah,

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Speaker 4: do I really want to take a break? I could

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Speaker 4: just like keep my head down, push through for a

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Speaker 4: couple more years, and then I'm one hundred percent there.

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Speaker 4: But achieving financial independence is a little bit like driving

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Speaker 4: down the interstate eighty miles an hour. If you pop

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Speaker 4: that thing in reverse all at once, it's a little

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Speaker 4: bit of a tailspin. There's a whole bunch of things

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Speaker 4: that you maybe have not practiced or have kind of

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Speaker 4: set aside in your pursuit of financial independence. Maybe some

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Speaker 4: of those relationships, maybe some of those hobbies, those interests

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Speaker 4: that travel you've kind of postponed, thinking well, I'll just

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Speaker 4: really do all of that when I get to five.

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Speaker 4: And the reality is it's tough to change, like to

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Speaker 4: significantly change one thing in your life. It takes a

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Speaker 4: lot of work and effort, and it's not always enjoyable.

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Speaker 4: If your plan is I'm going to change fifteen things

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Speaker 4: in my life as soon as I become fie, it's

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Speaker 4: a rough transition and it's very discouraging for a lot

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Speaker 4: of people. Fail even just like the failure rate of hobbies.

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Speaker 4: You know, you try a new hobby and not all

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Speaker 4: of them work out, Not all of them are what

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Speaker 4: you expect same of volunteering. So you go from a

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Speaker 4: career where you're very proficient and really good at everything

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Speaker 4: and very successful to a life where you're like mostly

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Speaker 4: failing at stuff, and a lot of people it brings up,

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Speaker 4: you know, whether you retire at sixty five, whether you

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Speaker 4: retire early, sometimes even during a mini retirement. One of

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Speaker 4: the things I warned people about is it allows you

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Speaker 4: to unpack baggage. So it's like if your kitchen's really messy,

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Speaker 4: but you go to work all day and you don't

404
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Speaker 4: have to look at the messy kitchen, it's easy to

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Speaker 4: pretend it doesn't even exist during your time off. Now

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Speaker 4: you just stare at that messy kitchen all day long,

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Speaker 4: and so it's an opportunity to clean that stuff up.

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Speaker 4: But I know a lot of people who worked so

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Speaker 4: hard for ten or fifteen years, head down, push through

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Speaker 4: to retire early, only six months or a year later

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Speaker 4: to be like this sucks, I'm going back to work.

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Speaker 4: And it's like if you would have practiced retirement periodically

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Speaker 4: throughout the process, that transition not only would be easier,

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Speaker 4: but it would be so much more successful.

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Speaker 2: I guess sometimes it's easier to do the thing that

416
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Speaker 2: you're really good at that you kind of disliked.

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Speaker 1: Us exactly trying to practice the things you're not great at.

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Speaker 3: It's just like nobody likes to suck at anything, right, No,

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Speaker 3: like so much of our lives. I feel like you've

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Speaker 3: gotten better. A cappella music comett, but I sucked. No, No,

421
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Speaker 3: I don't sing, but like, yeah, like it goes back

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Speaker 3: to the doing the things that you're proficient and nobody

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Speaker 3: it's really difficult. It's humbling, Like you have to get

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Speaker 3: over that ego to say, you know what, even though

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Speaker 3: I'm so good at this thing and I make a

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Speaker 3: lot of money, you're like hitting the reset the reset button,

427
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Speaker 3: and you're basically starting over at beginner's, beginner level, novice

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Speaker 3: status on a bunch of other different things. And I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of folks would much rather continue to

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Speaker 3: be proficient and at the sort of a claim expert

431
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Speaker 3: level at the thing that they know and love. But

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Speaker 3: maybe that they're beginning to resent.

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Speaker 2: Think that the people around them value too, because in

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Speaker 2: this culture, that is what gets put on a pedestal

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Speaker 2: is professional success in the work workplace environment, more money

436
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 2: in the bank account, and so it's like, cool, let

437
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 2: me keep doing the thing that everyone else thinks is

438
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: great that I'm actually pretty good at, and I feel

439
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: good about myself. Chilie, we have more questions we want

440
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 2: to discuss about retiring often and how we actually what

441
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: are the specifics of how we actually pull that off?

442
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 2: Do we have to like put in our resignation. Tomorrow

443
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: we'll talk about that and more.

444
00:23:53,160 --> 00:24:03,640
Speaker 5: Right after this, we are back from the break talking with.

445
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: Her friend Gillian.

446
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: John's rude and Jillian like, so far, like in the

447
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 3: first portion of the episode, you've made a really good

448
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: case I think for why folks should be considering many retirements.

449
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: But let's talk about more of the nuts and bolts.

450
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: I guess the practical side of how we go about.

451
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 1: Doing this thing.

452
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 3: So let's say that someone's convinced, how does how does

453
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 3: one get prepared? One does not simply walk into mordor right?

454
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 3: How do you take off a significant chunk of time?

455
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 3: Is this something where someone should just say yeah, like

456
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 3: hand in their two weeks? Notice, like, should you just

457
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 3: straight up quit? Or maybe should someone try to negotiate

458
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 3: a leave of absence? I guess what I'm asking here

459
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 3: is how should they negotiate the relationship that we have

460
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: with the current employer.

461
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 4: So there's two options. If you want to come back

462
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 4: to your employer, which honestly, I will always recommend starting

463
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 4: small because it's the easiest step and it'll give you

464
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 4: that confidence and clarity to kind of go bigger next time.

465
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 4: But a month off negotiated from your employer, go do

466
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 4: something cool, go do something awesome, come back refreshed and happy,

467
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: is probably the easiest thing to negotiate. So if you

468
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 4: want to come back, I usually recommend if it's like

469
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 4: one to three months is what people can typically negotiate off,

470
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 4: partly because that's in the framework of typical leave of absence.

471
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 4: You know, if someone has a heart attack, or if

472
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: someone has a baby, or you know, most companies are

473
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: somewhat equipped to handle a one to three month absence. Now,

474
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 4: if you want to take a year off, two years off,

475
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 4: you might not be able to negotiate that. You might

476
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 4: have to separate from the company, although I know a

477
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 4: lot of people. Actually, one of my client siblings was

478
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 4: kind of inspired. After my client made some progress and

479
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 4: was a doctor and win and just quit, she was like,

480
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 4: I need a year off. I'm out of here, like

481
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 4: peace out, And they were like no, no, no, no,

482
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 4: no no no, okay, how about you leave and then

483
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 4: in a year you just come back. Just please come back,

484
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 4: whatever you do, just please come back whenever you're ready.

485
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 4: And so sometimes you can kind of negotiate this understanding

486
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 4: that a job is available when you return. But either way,

487
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 4: I always encourage, even if you're going to separate, do

488
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 4: an exit negotiation, which we can kind of get into

489
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 4: how to structure that. But yeah, shorter, if you can

490
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: start with a shorter leave of absence, go for it

491
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 4: one to three months, negotiate that you might need to separate.

492
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 4: If it's a longer leave of absence, are.

493
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: You typically still getting paid? I guess depends on the

494
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,360
Speaker 2: length of time and what you negotiate. So if you're

495
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 2: like gone for a month, are you able to say, listen,

496
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to come back and be rested, refresh, meet

497
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 2: kicking butt. So you should probably pay me for this

498
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: month off or is it like half and half? Like

499
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: how do you negotiate sort of the pay for when

500
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: you're going to be gone?

501
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,479
Speaker 4: So I always encourage people, as like a rule of thumb,

502
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 4: to look at what their leave of absence pay policy

503
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 4: is currently so if people will get zero pay for

504
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 4: vacation or maternity leave, you're probably not going to be

505
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: able to negotiate a paid leave of absence, So you

506
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,920
Speaker 4: can start with an unpaid leave of absence. Some companies

507
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 4: will do paid or sometimes so there's an HR logistics

508
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 4: issue in the background and of your health insurance, your

509
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 4: four one K contributions, your dental you know all of that.

510
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 4: Where does that money come from? So some companies like

511
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 4: Bank of America offer twenty five percent pay, which essentially

512
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 4: helps cover all of your automatic deductions.

513
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: That's cool to know.

514
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 2: There's some companies who just kind of have that structured

515
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: into the way they do business with their employees. Okay,

516
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: what about healthcare because this is one of those things.

517
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: Do you if you quit altogether, you might not have

518
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: healthcare at all we're talking about then your income drops.

519
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 1: So do you go on healthcare.

520
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: Dot gov and get a plan there? What's the best

521
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: way to make sure that you have coverage, especially cat

522
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: traffic coverage while you're on your break?

523
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely have healthcare coverage. Like this is not the

524
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: time to be like skip it. Definitely get healthcare coverage.

525
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 4: There are in the US. You know, this is kind

526
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 4: of a US problem. In the US, there's six or seven,

527
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 4: eight kind of different routes you can go. Typically, if

528
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 4: people are looking at a two, three, four month mini retirement,

529
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 4: I generally suggest Cobra just because the ease of use.

530
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 4: It might not be the cheapest option, but you get

531
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 4: to keep all your same doctors, you get to stay

532
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: in the same network. You just it kind of rolls

533
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: over seamlessly. If you're looking at a longer mini retirement,

534
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: you know, eight months a year, then looking at the

535
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 4: Exchange is a good option. But there's also other options.

536
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 4: So sometimes if there's a married couple, one of them

537
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 4: could stay employed while the other one, you know, does

538
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 4: their mini retirement and they swap back and forth. I

539
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 4: had clients who one of the spouses had a very severe, expensive,

540
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 4: ongoing medical condition, and they're like, we have to have

541
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: insurance all the time, and so we just came up

542
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 4: with a plan. We're like, you'll just you know, you'll

543
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 4: swap back and forth, each of you getting some time.

544
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 4: If you know, let's say both people want to take

545
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: a year off, maybe one of them works part time.

546
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 4: You know, like I said, I'm obsessed with gardening and plants.

547
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: If I was a distressful corporate job and wanted a

548
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 4: year off and I could go to the local nursery

549
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: and work part time and water plants, like that is

550
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 4: my dream anyways.

551
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 5: All I want to do.

552
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 4: Is be outside and water plants and talk to people

553
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: about plants.

554
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I thought you're gonna say talk to plants both.

555
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 4: I talked to my plants as well. But that could

556
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: be an option, you know, to where you have this

557
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 4: flexus ability, You have the ability to do more trips

558
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: and things, So there's some options you can kind of

559
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: piece together, and people are always really nervous about it.

560
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 4: I always encourage people to take an hour and do

561
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: the research because it's usually those unknown pieces that create

562
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 4: that hesitation and get people stuck. But see what's out there,

563
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 4: and you don't have to decide forever. That's the other

564
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 4: great thing you'll love about Cobra. If you're overwhelmed, if

565
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 4: you cannot figure out healthcare, start with Cobra. You don't

566
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: have to stay on it the whole time. You can

567
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 4: do it for two or three months and then decide, actually,

568
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: I want to switch to the exchange now, or I

569
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,719
Speaker 4: want to work part time or kind of come up

570
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 4: with a new option.

571
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 3: It makes me think back to when I worked in

572
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: the corporate world for like a two years, and once

573
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: my wife and I were looking to start our own business, Jillian,

574
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: I had looked into what healthcare is going to cost,

575
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: and what I realized was that even if I was

576
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: going to stay with my company, I would have dropped

577
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 3: the group insurance because it was actually more expensive because

578
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 3: we were young and healthy than having gone out on

579
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: our own and paying for health care. This is a different,

580
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: simpler time, I know, I know in the health care space,

581
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 3: I mean, but what I love what you said there

582
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: though as well about actually going and working at a nursery,

583
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 3: Like that's a way that you can offset the cost

584
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 3: of a mini retirement. And so let's talk about I

585
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: guess budgeting for a mini retirement or a sabbatical and

586
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: what that entails. Because so by working at part time job,

587
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: not only does that offset your health care cost, but

588
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: you've got a little bit of money trickling in, and

589
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: so that kind of helps to offset the missed income.

590
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: But what about, like, how else can you financially prepare

591
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: for sabbatical, Whether you're talking about on the income side

592
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 3: of the equation, or even on the on the expenses

593
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: side of the equation.

594
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 4: I think the planning stage isn't too complicated. You know.

595
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,239
Speaker 4: It starts with knowing your baseline budget how much does

596
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 4: it cost you to live for a month, and then

597
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 4: kind of itemizing what is the cost of this thing

598
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: I want to do? And I have exercises I walk

599
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 4: people through of like how to decide what the next

600
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: mini retirement should be. But if all things you're equal,

601
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 4: especially if you're early in your financial journey, and you

602
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 4: have twenty different ideas, start with the least expensive one.

603
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 4: You know it will it'll help, It'll help you make

604
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 4: really good financial progress. You don't have to start with

605
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 4: you know, I want to do one hundred and twenty

606
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 4: day around the world cruise. This might not be the

607
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 4: one you do at thirty two, Like maybe save that

608
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 4: to when you're eighty two. And the first one is

609
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: like camping, you know, an American road trip or hiking

610
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 4: through Europe or something. So there's that part, and there's

611
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 4: once you start to I encourage people like list out

612
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 4: all of the elements of what the thing they want

613
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 4: to do during their many retirement would cost and that way,

614
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: you can kind of start to find creative ways to

615
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 4: pay for that. So if there's flights, you know, maybe

616
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 4: you do credit card points to help cover the flights,

617
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 4: but lots of different things you can do the research

618
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 4: to figure out how could I bring those costs down?

619
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 4: What are some alternatives you can crowdsource those ideas or

620
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: even like enlist some help. You know, when it comes

621
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 4: Christmas and birthday time, if you have like a backpack

622
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 4: that you really want, or you know, a piece of

623
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 4: luggagey you really want, or travel books or whatever that is,

624
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 4: you know, put that put that on the wish list.

625
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 4: So on the on the budget side, for money savvy people,

626
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: that's usually not the biggest stress, but there are lots

627
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: of boys on the income side. To bring in some

628
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 4: extra cash during your mini retirement, that could make it,

629
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 4: you know, a little less stressful, because, like I said,

630
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 4: if someone's used to earning and investing and saving, and

631
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 4: if they've been in that mode for a long time,

632
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 4: not earning bending down selling investments is a little stressful

633
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: at first. It takes some practice. And so there are

634
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 4: some things you know, when we travel, we travel about

635
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 4: half the year in an RV around the country with

636
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: all of our kiddos. We rent out our house while

637
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 4: we're gone. So we rent out our house for about

638
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 4: twenty four hundred dollars. Our travel expenses are about the same,

639
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: and so it costs us the same to live at

640
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 4: home or to travel full time. So we don't actually

641
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 4: really have many additional costs to traveling. And so that's

642
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: a really if you want to travel, it's a really

643
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 4: kind of low barrier to you know, to rent out

644
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 4: your house. You don't have to necessarily have rentals. You

645
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 4: don't even have to do an airbnb. We do long term,

646
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 4: but it could create a lot of income that could

647
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,800
Speaker 4: offset those additional costs.

648
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 2: Like I feel like kind of what you've referred to

649
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,479
Speaker 2: in the last few answers, just thinking outside the box.

650
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: I think there can be roadblocks, right, like.

651
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: Oh, healthcare, how am I gonna How am I gonna

652
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: do that? One?

653
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just not gonna take a mini retirement,

654
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: or uh yeah, what am I gonna do with the house?

655
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: Who's going to take care of it? And like actually

656
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: maybe you make money on it, like these are these.

657
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: Are ways gonna pay me to take care of my

658
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: house for me? Right? Right?

659
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: And it's so easy, I think though, to let those

660
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: things like the mortgage or the healthcare be these roadblocks

661
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: to doing the thing that's going to be incredibly life giving,

662
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: potentially beneficial to your future career, but more than anything

663
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 2: beneficial to you as a human.

664
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

665
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, Okay tell me this self employed folks, that's

666
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: a little different.

667
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: Right.

668
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 2: So we were talking about breaking free from an employer,

669
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: but if you run your own business, it can feel

670
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: even harder to step away, I think, and if we

671
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: but that's one of your tenants for a mini retirement

672
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: is that you have to leave your day job. So

673
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: can you can you like participate in it a little bit?

674
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: Or is it like no, no, you got a cold turkey?

675
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 1: Do this thing?

676
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: Your business needs to be run by somebody else. You

677
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: need to put on a pilot for a bit. How

678
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: how do you.

679
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: Help self employed folks think through taking any retirement.

680
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 4: Yes, I think a lot of nine to five employees

681
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 4: have this assumption of, oh my gosh, it would be

682
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 4: so much easier if I was the boss, I would

683
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 4: just say yes to me, And the reality is it's

684
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: so much more complicated, it's so much harder, and it's

685
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 4: scarier for a lot of people. While it can be

686
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 4: scary for employees, like what if I don't get hired again,

687
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 4: it has a different level of fear of what if

688
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 4: the thing I've spent years building explodes while I'm gone

689
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 4: and I come home to like a pile of rubble. Yeah,

690
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: Like that's a different level of fear, But there also

691
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 4: is so many benefits. So to tackle your first question

692
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 4: of do you have to walk away completely honestly for

693
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 4: people's first mini retirement, I don't suggest it. I suggest

694
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 4: shrinking your responsibilities to where you can accomplish them in

695
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 4: maybe five, maybe ten hours a week, trying to get

696
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 4: closer to five. But the reality is, when you're building

697
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 4: out better systems, when you're building out better processes, when

698
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 4: you're hiring people, it's really tough to replace you one

699
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: hundred percent. Like there's more risk and like ten times

700
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 4: the effort to replace you one hundred percent versus replacing

701
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 4: you eighty percent. And so I always encourage people like,

702
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 4: what's the eighty percent that you could automate or you

703
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 4: could get off of your plate, or you could delegate

704
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 4: to someone else, And what's the twenty percent that like

705
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 4: is really essential that you do and just focus on

706
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 4: that during your mini retirement. But yeah, it's they tend

707
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 4: to be more successful and it's easier to get it prepared,

708
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 4: and then you know retiring often. The more often people

709
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 4: do this, the better you'll get. It's kind of like

710
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 4: people ask me, like, is it hard to rent out

711
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 4: your house? Yes, it's super hard. The first time you

712
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 4: have to declutter everything, you have to clean everything, you

713
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 4: have to like pack stuff up. But every time you

714
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 4: do it, you come back to a cleaner, more prepared,

715
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 4: more organized home, and the next time it's less hard

716
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: and it takes less time to prepare. And it's the

717
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 4: same thing for self employed. The more often you do it,

718
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 4: the stronger and smoother and like more efficient your business becomes,

719
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 4: the better trained your employees become. And it does get

720
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 4: it does get easier. So you might get to like

721
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 4: I've logged off, I've thrown away my cell phone. You

722
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 4: will hear nothing from me for six weeks. But I

723
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 4: recommend starting with like five hours.

724
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 3: A week check in not just like it is a

725
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: big thing to do to take a mini retirement, but

726
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: what's even bigger is taking an actual retirement. Now I

727
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: love that, Like one of the recurring themes to what

728
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: I hear you saying is that you're trying this out.

729
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 3: It's not going to be perfect the first time, and

730
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 3: the more you do it, the better you're going to get.

731
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 3: And I can't help but to think about the sort

732
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 3: of the like you barely touched on the selling of assets, right,

733
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: drawing down of principle, and that for so many retirees

734
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 3: is an incredibly difficult thing.

735
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: What an awesome way to try that thing out?

736
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 3: By yes, and maybe you're not obviously you're not paying

737
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: penalties and taxes on withdrawing money out of your retirement early,

738
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 3: but even not contributing to those retirement accounts, it does

739
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 3: this mental shift where it feels like you're not making

740
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 3: progress because maybe you're measuring progress incorrectly, maybe you're going

741
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: about it the wrong way. And I like that, whether

742
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 3: you're talking about being self employed or even retirement accounts. Yeah,

743
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 3: there's just a low risk to giving this a shot

744
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 3: at a reasonable level at least. But all throughout your

745
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 3: answers and just kind of how you've talked about this,

746
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 3: you're you've referred to your kids, and so we've got

747
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: a few questions about whether or not many retirement is

748
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: possible with kids. I mean, obviously it is because you've

749
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 3: done it. But we'll get to that and more. Right

750
00:39:59,000 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 3: after this.

751
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: We're back. We're still talking about retiring often. Why you

752
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: you who are listening right now, You should probably retire regularly,

753
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: more consistently. It's not all or nothing. It's not oh,

754
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 2: can't wait till I'm sixty five. Maybe you should retire

755
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: little bits here and there along the way. And it

756
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 2: certainly sounds like an ideal, ideal way to live. It's

757
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,919
Speaker 2: something Matt and I are discussing more and more as

758
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: business partners and as friends, and so part of the

759
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: reason we wanted to have Jillian on today was selfish

760
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 2: in nature, because was it like for us maybe to

761
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: do this more in our own lives. But Jillian first,

762
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 2: before Matt and I take off for a couple months,

763
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: we I have to know, like, what are the horror stories?

764
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: What are the worst possible outcomes of retiring often? Do

765
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 2: you have any from your own experience or from some

766
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: of the people that you talk to or work with

767
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: like that have just been like, that's not for me.

768
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say that it's not for them, but there

769
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 4: can be legitimate challenges. There are things that are hard

770
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 4: and go wrong, and I never I never sugarcoat that,

771
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: Like I think it's really important to kind of know

772
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: what you're getting into and to know what the challenges

773
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 4: might be. But I also always encourage people like these

774
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 4: are challenges, like this is a bridge you're gonna have

775
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 4: to cross at some point. The only alternative to figuring

776
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: the stuff out is dying at your desk. See, you

777
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 4: either die in your desk or you figure out some

778
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 4: of these challenges. So we might as well start small,

779
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 4: like you said, we might as well practice along the

780
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 4: way in like bite sized challenges versus okay, now, and

781
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 4: we're re tired for thirty years, like I have to

782
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 4: take a thirty size bite. But yeah, there's a lot

783
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 4: of challenges, like like I mentioned briefly, unpacking baggage. A

784
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 4: lot of couples, and this is true whether you're sixty

785
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 4: five twenty five, A lot of couples have more conflict

786
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 4: during retirement because they have to stare at the dirty

787
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 4: kitchen all day long.

788
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: In each other.

789
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I think that's what you call your husband.

790
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: Okay, But I always encourage people like this. While it

791
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 4: can be viewed Sometimes people's internal story can be why

792
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 4: the heck did I even take this time off? And

793
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 4: why am I spending all this money? And why am

794
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: I losing all this income just to like fight with

795
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 4: my spouse? And that could be the story, or you

796
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 4: could say, you know what, this is the opportunity for

797
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 4: us to really focus on this and learn some new

798
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 4: skills and figure out our communication and work through this

799
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 4: so that we can have decades more being happily married.

800
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 4: But that can catch people off guard. Another thing that

801
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 4: catches people off guard is if they are severely burned out,

802
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 4: they often under us to make the time and the

803
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 4: intensity of what that recovery will look like, and it

804
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 4: sneaks up on people where their body kind of downshifts,

805
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 4: and it's almost like if you've been fasting and then

806
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 4: you start eating again, your body all of a sudden

807
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 4: feels super hungry, and you feel hungry for a really

808
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 4: long time. If you've been depriving yourself of rest and recovery,

809
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 4: soon as your body realizes, oh, I have access to this,

810
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 4: it will feel super tired, and it will feel super

811
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 4: tired for a really long time. And there again, the

812
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: story people tell themselves never the helpful story, but it

813
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 4: often sounds like, well, maybe I'm just not motivated. Maybe

814
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 4: I'm not a productive person. Maybe I'm just lazy. Maybe

815
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 4: I can't thrive outside of my nine to five. This

816
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 4: was a horrible idea. I thought I was going to

817
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 4: be able to accomplish all these things, and now I'm

818
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 4: just napping. I have no motivation. I should just go

819
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 4: back to work because this sucks when in reality, your

820
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 4: body's just trying to get you back to your baseline

821
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: and it sees this as the perfect opportunity. So if

822
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 4: people kind of go in knowing this might be something

823
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 4: that happens and can reframe it of oh my gosh,

824
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: my body is really tired. Maybe I should shift my plans.

825
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: But I'm so grateful I have the ability to give

826
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 4: my body what it needs.

827
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: Another downside I could see of many retirements doing them

828
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: regularly is being away from community, from family, from you know,

829
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 2: some of those the people that matter most to you,

830
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 2: and over an extended period of time. So let's say

831
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: I'm like taking four months off and I'm away from

832
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: those people for a long time, Like that is a

833
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: very grounding thing for me, and I would imagine for

834
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: a lot of people out there, what does that look

835
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,399
Speaker 2: like and what like? How have you dealt with being

836
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 2: removed from your community for an extended period time as

837
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 2: you're enjoying that time with your family, getting off the

838
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: beaten path and not working nearly to the same degree,

839
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 2: Like are you staying in touch with your community or are

840
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: you writing letters? Like what is how do you how

841
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: do you kind of maintain that cultivate that while you're away.

842
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's there's two ways to look at this. One.

843
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 4: I always encourage people you don't have to leave for

844
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 4: a mini retirement, Like you can stay home one summer.

845
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: I took the summer off and I planted a food

846
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 4: forest in my backyard. You know, you can play in

847
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 4: a band, you can do things locally. So if you

848
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 4: don't want to leave your community, you don't have to.

849
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 4: But the other side is if you want to travel.

850
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 4: It's actually been massively beneficial for us to be able

851
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 4: to connect with extended family, to be able to connect

852
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 4: with friends, friends from college, friends from you know, my

853
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 4: husband was in the military, so we have friends all

854
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: over the country during that season of our life. Professional friends.

855
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 4: When people only have fourteen days of vacation between holidays

856
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 4: and birthdays and weddings. There isn't a lot of time

857
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 4: left to go visit your cousins or your great aunt

858
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 4: or your friends from college. You know, oftentimes we lose

859
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 4: some of those connections, and we lose some of those relationships,

860
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 4: and when you're traveling, it's a great opportunity. You know,

861
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 4: we kind of try to plan our trip a little

862
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 4: bit around where are all the people that we haven't

863
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 4: we haven't gotten to see for a while. And so

864
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: while you know it is important to maintain your connections

865
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 4: back home, there might be those more distant connections that

866
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 4: you actually have the opportunity to kind of lean into

867
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 4: if you are traveling.

868
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 3: I love that that makes sense to not you're not.

869
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: It's not like you're replacing your community, but it's like, hey,

870
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: how can we strengthen some of these other relationships that

871
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 3: we have or maybe.

872
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: Relationships too that we've neglected over over the years. But uh,

873
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: all right, last question, Jillian. Uh. I mentioned kids earlier.

874
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 3: Obviously I think a lot of I mean, the way

875
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about this, I'm like, all right, summer breaks,

876
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 3: that's an easy mini retirement, right, You've got two or

877
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 3: three months where you can take off. But if you're

878
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: thinking beyond that, how does that work with schooling? I

879
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: mean you're talking about taking months on end off.

880
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: What does that look like?

881
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 3: Are you homeschooling and then when you come back, are you,

882
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 3: you know, are the kids like jumping right right back

883
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 3: into public schooling? Is there any catching up that has

884
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 3: to be done? What does that look like? Just from

885
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 3: a practical standpoint with kids and education.

886
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, for us, so we live in Montana, so the

887
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 4: education piece will be a little bit state specific, but

888
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 4: it is pretty easy to find online or talk to

889
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 4: you know, your school's administration to see how they would

890
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 4: handle different policies. Ours is if kids are gone for

891
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 4: more than a month, they unenroll them. So when we

892
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 4: leave because we like to travel in the winter because

893
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 4: I get seasonal depression and Montana is like massively cloudy

894
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 4: in the winter, so we travel in the winter, so

895
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 4: we unenroll them. We homeschool them when we travel, and

896
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 4: then when we get back, we re enroll them and

897
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 4: they jump back into school. We don't. Sometimes people ask

898
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 4: us about our curriculum. It is totally haphazard. It is

899
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 4: all over the place. But because kids are all of

900
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 4: our kids are moving at their own pace. They tend

901
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 4: to massively outpace their peers when they return. So I

902
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: kind of feel bad, Like we got back early April

903
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 4: this year, so they're going back to school for two months,

904
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 4: and I kind of feel bad sending them back because

905
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 4: they're not going to learn a single thing in the

906
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 4: next two months, not a lick of information. I'm just

907
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: sending them back so they can like get back into

908
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 4: the rhythm. See their friends have like build those you know,

909
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 4: community connections again. But yeah, I'm not in any way

910
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 4: expecting them to learn new information these last two months

911
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 4: because they're a greater or two level ahead at this point.

912
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's I would say, you know, kindergarten in

913
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 4: Montana through junior high that's the system, and it's pretty easy.

914
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 4: It gets a little bit more complicated in high school

915
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 4: for a lot of reasons. You know. Oftentimes people are like,

916
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 4: I don't know if I want to travel when my

917
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 4: kids are young, and I get it. It's so much

918
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 4: more like physical labor. It's so much more emotional labor

919
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 4: to travel with them. But with school and with friends

920
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 4: and with activities and hobbies, it's logistically so much easier.

921
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 4: When kids are younger. I have two in high school now,

922
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 4: and it's tricky and we're having to shift plans and

923
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 4: kind of shift gears to accommodate those those needs. So

924
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 4: I always encourage people travel while your kids are young,

925
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 4: because you just never know. You never you never know

926
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 4: what your kids will want or need once they get

927
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 4: into junior high in high school.

928
00:49:58,960 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: That's good advice.

929
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: Jillian. Thank you so much for walking us through this.

930
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: It's given me a lot of food for thought, especially

931
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 2: that last point.

932
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I totally caught myself in that position

933
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,919
Speaker 3: of being like, well, the four year old can barely

934
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 3: hike it a couple miles, Like I want to make

935
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 3: you know, don't you want to go when you can

936
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 3: throw down like five, six, seven miles because I'm thinking

937
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 3: National parks. But then, like you said, yeah, are the

938
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 3: oldest are they going to want to do that? So

939
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 3: it's easy to I don't know, it off in the

940
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 3: future for ourselves into the position of the questions that

941
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: we're asking Jillian.

942
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 2: For sure, Jillian, thank you for joining us. Where can

943
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: our listeners find out more about you? More about taking

944
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 2: many retirements on.

945
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 4: The rig, Like you mentioned retireoften dot com and I

946
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 4: have some worksheets there if you want to start kind

947
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 4: of planning what that might look like, or are on

948
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 4: social media. I'm at Gillian John's Rod.

949
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: That's right.

950
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 3: And we didn't even mention the workbook that you've got out.

951
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: And you've got a book coming out next year about

952
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 3: retiring often, so we'll make sure to link to that one.

953
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: It's available into your current resources now, Jillian, thank you

954
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: so much for speaking with us today.

955
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 4: Thank you, guys, it's wonderful to be back.

956
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 3: Well, Joel, are you convinced is the time for us

957
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: to just hang it up at least for like a

958
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 3: month or two?

959
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 1: And I think so.

960
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: I think so, And I think like I told Jillian

961
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 2: actually right after we got off the call, that we

962
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 2: were considering something like a two week extended thing next June,

963
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 2: once my wife's graduated getting her degree as a marriage

964
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: and family therapist. And then now I'm like, why stop

965
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 2: it two weeks?

966
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: Why not make it longer?

967
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 2: Why not just lean into that a little bit harder

968
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 2: and make it a month and try our first like

969
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: legit many retirement.

970
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: I think you and.

971
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: I we're solid about work life balance. We're solid about

972
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: taking time off but this makes me want to do

973
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 2: even more.

974
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: Definitely does.

975
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 3: The hardest part is going to be you getting her

976
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 3: to take a many retirement when she's just getting started.

977
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: Like that's the I feel like the difficult part there.

978
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 3: But yeah, was that your big takeaway? Nor do you

979
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 3: have something else that you want to refer to in

980
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: our conversation than.

981
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway was when she said, if

982
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: you have less time, you want more luxury, and I

983
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: think it's so.

984
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: Freaking true luxury time continuum. If you have the rest

985
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 3: of each other, guess what you want to have? Pay

986
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 3: someone to clean your house, you want to pay someone

987
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 3: to mow your lawn, you want to pay someone to

988
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 3: deliver the groceries.

989
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 2: Everything costs more. When you feel like you're strapped for time,

990
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 2: you're paying for you're outsourcing all these services.

991
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: If you only have four days in Paris to travel

992
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 3: because that is the only block of window, or that

993
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: is the only window of time that you could get

994
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: away from work, well guess what you're gonna be paying

995
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 3: off the nose to be able to take off during

996
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 3: those four days, which happens to be when everybody else

997
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 3: also wants to take time off and flights are ridiculously expensive,

998
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 3: and the compounds, it's everything, like literally everything costs more.

999
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I think, just like what she said,

1000
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 2: if it's five thousand bucks for you to take a

1001
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 2: week vacation, it's not twenty thousand dollars to take a

1002
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: month long vacation. In fact, it might be somewhat similar

1003
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: in price because you're going to be doing all these

1004
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: all these different things with a unique approach. So yeah,

1005
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 2: think about think about that, how being constantly busy is

1006
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: costing you more. And if maybe you had more time

1007
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: in your life you can enjoy some of those tasks

1008
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 2: and diy and save yourself some money. I think there's

1009
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 2: a lot of truth to that. Yeah, man, I couldn't

1010
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: agree more. So my big takeaway is going to be

1011
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 2: when she was talking about we were sort of talking

1012
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: about the nuts and bolts, like the practical side of

1013
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 2: planning for a sabbatical or a many retirement, and she

1014
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 2: basically highlighted that for most folks it's not too difficult

1015
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 2: to figure out the financials of it. And so what

1016
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 2: does that then leave. It's the psychological, emotional, the emotional,

1017
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: the mental side of things, and like all the numbers

1018
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 2: part of the equation, like those are all now.

1019
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: Just excuses because she said that.

1020
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 3: How you can take one hour, do a little bit

1021
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 3: of digging around and figure out Oh, look, turns out

1022
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 3: my company already has the policy, it's already spelled out.

1023
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 3: Or you can spend that hour researching. Okay, well, what

1024
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 3: does it then look like for me to pay for cobra?

1025
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: Oh?

1026
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 3: What does it then look like for me to take

1027
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,280
Speaker 3: this much time away? How is that going to impact

1028
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 3: my career? There is so much fear of the unknown,

1029
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 3: and it keeps us locked into the rut of going

1030
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 3: and punching the clock, you know, just doing the same

1031
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: things that we're so used to because we're proficient, we're competent,

1032
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 3: but also I think because we're scared.

1033
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 4: Man.

1034
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 1: I think it's it's difficult to.

1035
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 3: Do something that that causes like a little feeling of

1036
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: fear that kind of like sparks up.

1037
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: Inside of us.

1038
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: I ever get a real job again. All there's all

1039
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: these questions that come up, and I agree, I think

1040
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: there are these kind of root level questions that are

1041
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: probably really good things for us to sort through, but

1042
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 2: it's hard to have the time to sort through them

1043
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 2: if we're you know, working our butts off exactly, and

1044
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 2: one other things she mentioned, you know, going to see

1045
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 2: friends and family and stuff. I thought one of the

1046
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: perk of that is often there's a free place to

1047
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 2: stay when you're doing that, so that can dramatically, least

1048
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: for a couple of days, rekindle some of those Yeah yeah, yeah,

1049
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 2: they might boot you out, but you want to be

1050
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: here for how No, I'm on a many retirem I

1051
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 2: don't think you understand to be here for a couple

1052
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 2: of months and they're like sorry, but yeah, a few

1053
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 2: days in a bunch of different places can can make

1054
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 2: for like a really fun trip.

1055
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 5: I think.

1056
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, let's tell folks about the beer you

1057
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 3: and I enjoyed during this episode. Grits and Juice by Carolina.

1058
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 3: How do you say this barn House, boun bowen House, Yeah,

1059
00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 3: something like that. Okay, is it like barn House? It's like, okay,

1060
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 3: I think's German? Maybe bower House.

1061
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 1: Did you?

1062
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 3: I guess you picked this beer up about a Greenville

1063
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: I've never even heard of them, surprising well, considering how

1064
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 3: much time I spent in Greenville, South Carolina, that.

1065
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: I've only had a couple of beers from them, but

1066
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 2: this one was by far my favorite that I've had

1067
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: for this great, so good, super tasty, the most One

1068
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 2: of the most underrated beer styles is when you combine

1069
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 2: sour and hops together. This beer had both because it

1070
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: was it was a session I pa that had sour

1071
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 2: vibes going on, with like citrus sour going on, and

1072
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 2: it was delicious.

1073
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 3: It's totally barrel aged too, right or no, I don't

1074
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 3: because it had like a funkiness going on like that

1075
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: made me think of that made me think of oak.

1076
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, but.

1077
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it did have a funkiness, but I don't

1078
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: know that it was barely okay nice, I dug it.

1079
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: The grits and juice. Is that like a Snoop Dogg

1080
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 3: reference gin and juice?

1081
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 1: Maybe, I don't know, but a southern version.

1082
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 3: It had a nice acidity to it with some of

1083
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 3: that funk while at the same time having some of

1084
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,839
Speaker 3: this some of that hoppy bitterness on the finish as well.

1085
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 3: Super tasty and doubly fund Since I don't think I've

1086
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,280
Speaker 3: ever had a beer by these guys, so I'm always

1087
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 3: fun to try a new brewery. Yeah, glad you were

1088
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 3: able to pick this one up for sure, me too nice?

1089
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: All right, We'll make sure to link to some Agillian's

1090
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 3: resources that we talked about here on the podcast. We'll

1091
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 3: make sure to link to her show as well as

1092
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: her site. You can find that up in our show

1093
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:17,919
Speaker 3: notes at howamoney dot com.

1094
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: Stay tuned because will we be back on Friday with

1095
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: a Friday flight or will we be like kicking our

1096
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 2: feet up somewhere.

1097
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:23,880
Speaker 1: Who knows.

1098
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 2: You'll find out in a couple of days, I guess,

1099
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 2: but Mattha's gonna do it for this one. Until next time.

1100
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,479
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,