Speaker 1: I want to welcome in now. Our audience is across
Speaker 1: our Bloomberg television, radio, and YouTube platforms as one of
Speaker 1: finance's most notable names is running for a US Senate seat.
Speaker 1: That is, combat veteran and former Bridgewater CEO Dave McCormick
Speaker 1: is a Republican Senate candidate in Pennsylvania and joins me
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Joe Matthew and Dave. There are a number
Speaker 1: of things we want to get to with you, but
Speaker 1: we were reconnected after you wrote an op ed entitled
Speaker 1: America Must Lead on crypto currency, and you know, it
Speaker 1: was somewhat interesting to see the former CEO of the
Speaker 1: world's largest head fund take a pro crypto view given
Speaker 1: how reticent the financial industry has been an adopting crypto.
Speaker 1: Why is this a platform that's important to you?
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. Nice to see both of you.
Speaker 2: You know, the reason that I advocated this is I
Speaker 2: think it's good economic policy, but it's also good national
Speaker 2: security policy. And I've obviously been following a crypto for
Speaker 2: a while now and the developments around blockchain, and I
Speaker 2: always thought it had appeal as around the principles of
Speaker 2: individual freedom and privacy. Data security and data privacy is
Speaker 2: something that is incredibly important and increasingly so. But I
Speaker 2: was always worried about the national security implications. And I
Speaker 2: think what's become clear is that we are in the
Speaker 2: next great wave of innovation with crypto and blockchain, and
Speaker 2: if America doesn't embrace it, we're going to be left behind.
Speaker 2: And by embracing it, we can create great jobs, a
Speaker 2: great source of innovation. I've lived through a number of
Speaker 2: waves of innovation, whether it was the PC and the Internet,
Speaker 2: or whether it's some of the new developments around AI.
Speaker 2: This is one such wave that we need to embrace.
Speaker 2: And the national security implications of this are clear, which
Speaker 2: is that blockchain has very limited and crypto very limited
Speaker 2: ELLSTED activity something like zero point three four five percent
Speaker 2: of the transactions. But it gives a roadmap for national
Speaker 2: security officials and prosecutors to zero in on the listed activity.
Speaker 2: So the national security and legal experts I talked to
Speaker 2: think that it offers a real source of eliminating, not
Speaker 2: increasing a listed activity. And so for all those reasons
Speaker 2: and important to Pennsylvania, a job creation engine for Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: I've embraced this and encouraged lawmakers to lay out a
Speaker 2: regulatory framework that will allow innovation to continue.
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting, Dave. Welcome, it's Joe Matthew in Washington
Speaker 3: and great to see you as we consider this. You
Speaker 3: point out in your op ed that this is also
Speaker 3: a matter of staying competitive with, if not beating, China
Speaker 3: when it comes to crypto and I wonder if we
Speaker 3: could get to the matter of China right off the top,
Speaker 3: because we have a lot of questions for you on
Speaker 3: the economy, on taxes and tariffs. Your opponent in your
Speaker 3: Senate race, Bob Casey, has pointed out repeatedly the role
Speaker 3: that you had at Bridgewater and directing investments toward companies
Speaker 3: based in China. Can you tell our listeners and viewers
Speaker 3: the extent to which you were personally involved and the
Speaker 3: effort behind those investments, how you see them now?
Speaker 2: Sure? Well, I've been very involved with China for more
Speaker 2: than twenty years as a policymaker in the Bush administration.
Speaker 2: I was one of the folks that was very involved
Speaker 2: in making sure that China didn't either steal or get
Speaker 2: access to some of our key technologies. And the global
Speaker 2: economy has evolved in is China's evolved, it's become more
Speaker 2: and more of a national security threat, particularly with the
Speaker 2: rise of President Sheep, who has a very very aggressive
Speaker 2: view of China's role in the world visa the United States.
Speaker 2: With regard to Bridgewater, Bridgewater is a global investment firm.
Speaker 2: We serve global clients. While I was there and still
Speaker 2: and in Bridgewater's portfolio, there was something like two percent
Speaker 2: of its allocation that wasted to China, and that was
Speaker 2: mostly in portfolio types of investments. And so this is
Speaker 2: one of the challenges as we think about national security
Speaker 2: going forward. One of the things I've advocated is we
Speaker 2: need to make sure that investors are not investing of
Speaker 2: any kind, are not investing in companies that support the
Speaker 2: Chinese military, support the PLA, support the Communist Party, and
Speaker 2: the government should take a much more active role. And
Speaker 2: I've said this in testimony and so forth, to identify
Speaker 2: which companies we do not want American investors or American
Speaker 2: companies to invest in. And that's one of the things
Speaker 2: I'd be advocating as a senator, as well as decoupling
Speaker 2: in key industries that are going to be absolutely critical
Speaker 2: to America's economic and national security. Going forward. So that's
Speaker 2: the vision that I've laid out, and I think what's
Speaker 2: going to be required, and I honestly think I've experienced
Speaker 2: with China, both as a national security official but also
Speaker 2: as a global CEO is going to help me be
Speaker 2: much more sophisticated in how we deal with the Chinese
Speaker 2: because I actually know what I'm.
Speaker 1: Talking about, Dave. To that end, I want to get
Speaker 1: your view here on the talent tariff policies put forth
Speaker 1: during Donald Trump and his pet presidential run. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of mainstream economists, including Larry Summers, concerned about
Speaker 1: the inflationary impact that such policies could have. Do you
Speaker 1: share those concerns?
Speaker 2: Well, Listen, I was someone who has been generally skeptical
Speaker 2: of tariffs, but when President Trump came into office, I
Speaker 2: thought that selective use of tariffs to ensure a fair
Speaker 2: playing field, ensure reciprocity, ensure negotiating leverage made sense, and
Speaker 2: so I supported the tariffs that President Trump put in
Speaker 2: place under the last administration. And I do think that
Speaker 2: there's the risk of inflationary impact, and frankly, I think
Speaker 2: there's two dimensions of Biden. President Biden's policies which are
Speaker 2: relevant to this one is the enormous spending is the
Speaker 2: primary driver of inflation. That and the policies that are
Speaker 2: directed on reducing oil and gas consumption, those are the
Speaker 2: primary drivers of inflation, and economists like Larry Summers have
Speaker 2: said as much. The second problem with those policies of
Speaker 2: the Biden administration, particularly as it relates to evs and
Speaker 2: solar panels and so forth, the policies that have been
Speaker 2: in place have made us ironically highly dependent on China,
Speaker 2: because seventy percent of the lithium batteries and eighty percent
Speaker 2: of the solar panels are manufactured in China, so in
Speaker 2: one fell swoon. In my opinion, the Biden administration's economic
Speaker 2: agenda has driven up inflation and made us more dependent
Speaker 2: on our primary adversary. And that's why as I've run
Speaker 2: for the Senate, I've advocated set of policies that take
Speaker 2: us in the opposite direction.
Speaker 3: Let's put a finer point on this day of the
Speaker 3: idea of tariffs here against China. Will put aside for
Speaker 3: a second, because Donald Trump is also proposing and across
Speaker 3: the board, a global ten percent tariff that he says
Speaker 3: would help to pay for tax cuts if he's reelected.
Speaker 3: This has been a big DEBATEUS. I'm sure you well
Speaker 3: known Washington over the past week or so, and it's
Speaker 3: about to get a lot louder. Making permanent the twenty
Speaker 3: seventeen tax cuts that are set to expire next year.
Speaker 3: We saw a new analysis from the Committee for a
Speaker 3: Responsible Federal Budget says that would cost in excess of
Speaker 3: four trillion dollars, that it could add that much to
Speaker 3: our deficit. So if it's not tariffs that offset the
Speaker 3: cost here, how do you pay for it?
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, you you got to pay for
Speaker 2: it with a growing economy that's generating tax proceeds. The
Speaker 2: best way to do this. And in the Bush, or
Speaker 2: rather the Trump tax cuts, if President Biden's reelected and
Speaker 2: those tax cuts are allowed to expire, that's going to
Speaker 2: hurt all Americans. So if you look at someone who's
Speaker 2: making seventy thousand dollars a year, the impact on them
Speaker 2: is something like two thousand dollars of tax reduction benefit
Speaker 2: that they lose.
Speaker 3: And this is the impact of inflation is pretty great
Speaker 3: on a household as well. Right, how do you find
Speaker 3: four point six million dollars? I think is the number
Speaker 3: that they put down your to pay for that without
Speaker 3: stoking inflation even further.
Speaker 2: The well, the inflation has already been stoked by six
Speaker 2: trillion dollars of incremental spending under President Biden.
Speaker 3: Here, so you'd add another four.
Speaker 2: No, no, no. The a primary driver of the inflation
Speaker 2: we had has been the spending policies of Biden and
Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats have been spending too much. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying this is solely Democrats, but what's happened under Biden
Speaker 2: is six trillion dollars of spending. And if you think
Speaker 2: about the types of spending, you can talk about one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy billion dollars of loan forgiveness, which is absolutely,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, un American and unfair. Or you can
Speaker 2: talk about tax cuts that are going to benefit all
Speaker 2: Americans and all Pennsylvanians, and absolutely inflation is the most
Speaker 2: regressive tax at all. So we've got to get inflation
Speaker 2: under control. But the drivers of inflation are bad energy policy.
Speaker 2: They've driven up the prices of fuel, and too much spending.
Speaker 2: And so I would say reversing certainly some of those
Speaker 2: Biden spending bills and rolling back the war on natural
Speaker 2: gas and fossil fuels is the key to getting our
Speaker 2: economy back in check, and I wouldn't, particularly now, when
Speaker 2: so many families are burdened by this inflation, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: burden them further by rolling back the tax cuts at
Speaker 2: President trump place.
Speaker 1: Speaking of burdens on families, you know, when you think
Speaker 1: about the deficit issue largely in the US, doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that you've also ruled out the idea of more spending
Speaker 1: or slow and spending rather on Medicare and Social Security
Speaker 1: to be part of the solution in closing that gap.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the primary thing we need to do
Speaker 2: now is roll back some of the spending that President
Speaker 2: Biden has put in place. Again, I keep pointing to
Speaker 2: it because it's such an obvious one. Is the one
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty eight billion dollars of most recent a
Speaker 2: student loan forgiveness. I mean, look at that. It's extraorin
Speaker 2: that's the size of the Army's budget. That kind of
Speaker 2: spending doesn't make sense to most Americans. So we got
Speaker 2: to roll back that spending. We've got to attack a
Speaker 2: number of sources of discretionary spending. And certainly when you
Speaker 2: look down the road. There's questions around entitlements, but the
Speaker 2: basic premise that you have to start with is we
Speaker 2: have to live up to the obligations that we promise people.
Speaker 2: So it's you know, it's a balancing act for sure,
Speaker 2: but a pro growth economic agenda that deregulates that allows
Speaker 2: businesses to grow is going to be the primary driver
Speaker 2: of driving tax receipts. We've got to drive back or
Speaker 2: pull back on spending. I certainly agree with that, but
Speaker 2: the starting point has to be the war on oil
Speaker 2: and gas, which has hindered as dramatically, and some of
Speaker 2: the Biden priorities, which I honestly think are indefensive. One
Speaker 2: the most notable one is the student loan forgiveness.
Speaker 3: Well, we should note I realized that you're speaking in
Speaker 3: some cases you're about the moratorium on new LNG permits,
Speaker 3: but the United States is pumping more oil than it
Speaker 3: has ever in history right now, Dave, I want to
Speaker 3: ask you about your policy or your proposals speak if
Speaker 3: you're elected on Israel? Can I just I'd like to
Speaker 3: get to Israel if we can here, to try to
Speaker 3: get to as many topics as we can, Dave, there
Speaker 3: are a lot of questions about whether we're going to
Speaker 3: see a cease fire at any point soon. And I
Speaker 3: wonder if you think that Israel should declare war on Hesbelah,
Speaker 3: if that is in fact the mission here for Israel
Speaker 3: to combat the influence of Iran proxies. Iranian proxies that
Speaker 3: have brought so much terror to Israel and a very
Speaker 3: difficult quagmire that we find ourselves in now.
Speaker 2: My wife and I went to Israel right after Christmas
Speaker 2: and saw firsthand the horrible barbarism that happened on October seventh,
Speaker 2: and are fully supportive of Israel doing what it must
Speaker 2: do to eradicate Hamas and destroy that threat. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to comment on what Israel should do in terms
Speaker 2: of dealing with Hesbel. I much more confidence in their
Speaker 2: ability to decide what's best for Israel as a democracy.
Speaker 2: What I will say is that they are absolutely being
Speaker 2: attacked from all sides by these proxy that are underwritten
Speaker 2: by Iran and the original sin. The thing that put
Speaker 2: us in this position was President Obama's deal in twenty
Speaker 2: fifteen to give back one hundred million dollars of sanctioned money,
Speaker 2: and the deciding vote on that was Bob Casey, and
Speaker 2: that my opponent in the Senate race, and that money
Speaker 2: is being used to underwrite terrorist groups. The hootis has
Speaker 2: Blaslami Ji Hutt and of course Hamas, and we're gonna
Speaker 2: have to deal with That's gonna deal with that. And
Speaker 2: a final point, this is not just a war against Israel.
Speaker 2: This is very much directed at the West, and sadly,
Speaker 2: it's raising the risk for Americans around the world and
Speaker 2: in the Middle East.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me guys ask you this from another angle though, Davis.
Speaker 3: We wait for a possible cease fire, and you look
Speaker 3: at the destruction that has been wrought in Gaza, more
Speaker 3: than thirty thousand civilians killed according to the Gaza Health Ministry.
Speaker 3: At what point is the response disproportionate?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, listen, I obviously watched the same clips you do.
Speaker 2: When you see human suffering and innocent people injured or killed,
Speaker 2: it's heartbreaking. You know. The source of this pain is
Speaker 2: Hamas that has integrated itself into the civilian population. Their
Speaker 2: explicit strategy is to increase civilian casualties. And Israel certainly
Speaker 2: has every right to eradicate the risks that destroyed the
Speaker 2: lives of twelve hundred Israelis, and you know, hopefully we're
Speaker 2: going to be able to find resolution on that soon.
Speaker 2: I think it's very difficult to imagine Israel letting a
Speaker 2: military capability continue with Hamas, and so I'll leave it
Speaker 2: to them to figure out the best timing and path
Speaker 2: for that. But obviously I was very gratified to see
Speaker 2: all the efforts that are being put in place to
Speaker 2: allow humanitarian corridors to allow as much humanitarian support as
Speaker 2: possible into Gaza. And it's absolutely heartbreaking to see not
Speaker 2: only what happened on October seventh, but to see innocence
Speaker 2: killed in Gaza. But make no mistake, the root of this,
Speaker 2: the root caused, the source of this evil, and the
Speaker 2: culpable party is Hamas.
Speaker 1: Dave. Before we let you go here, I do want
Speaker 1: to get your on the US election this cycle here,
Speaker 1: especially because you and yourself are also on the campaign
Speaker 1: trail and going around the country looking for fresh donors,
Speaker 1: new fundraising. What is it about Donald Trump that Wall
Speaker 1: Street finds attractive at this point because we know that
Speaker 1: even those who have shied away after January sixth, some
Speaker 1: of them have come back in the fundraising circuit. What
Speaker 1: is it that they're latching onto.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the primary thing is that the country's
Speaker 2: just going in a really bad direction, and most Americans
Speaker 2: see it. So the economy I talked about, there's certainly
Speaker 2: positive economic factors, but for sixty percent of Americans, they're
Speaker 2: living paycheck to paycheck and compounded inflation is really driven
Speaker 2: and higher prices have really made it much harder for
Speaker 2: them to make ends meet. You see it with the
Speaker 2: border crisis, ten million illegal migrants coming into the country,
Speaker 2: a huge national security risk, a huge fannel risk. You
Speaker 2: see this in the which we just talked about, the
Speaker 2: war on oil and gas, which is a particular a
Speaker 2: big deal for Pennsylvania and many states across our great countries.
Speaker 2: So I think the policies of President Biden are taking
Speaker 2: us in a terrible direction. And I think that people
Speaker 2: compare the policies of President Trump with the policies of
Speaker 2: President Biden and say, you know what, we were better
Speaker 2: off and our future was much brighter under the leadership
Speaker 2: of President Trump. I think that's what's happening. That's certainly
Speaker 2: what's happening on the ground in Pennsylvania. And I'm running
Speaker 2: as someone who's an independent voice is someone who will
Speaker 2: fight for the fight for the interest of Pennsylvanian someone
Speaker 2: who's led in the military, led in created jobs in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: led companies, and someone who can get in the Senate
Speaker 2: and make a real difference and be a real advocate
Speaker 2: for policies that help Pennsylvanians.
Speaker 1: We have to leave it there. Dave McCormick, Republican candidate
Speaker 1: for Senate in Pennsylvania. We thank you for your time
Speaker 1: today