Speaker 1: You didn't believe in miracles before Saturday, you better be
Speaker 1: believing right now. Thank God Almighty, that we live in
Speaker 1: a country that still believes in the King of Kings
Speaker 1: and the Lord of lords. The Alba have the Omega,
Speaker 1: and our God, our God still says, he still delivers
Speaker 1: and he still sets free. Because on Saturday, the devil
Speaker 1: came to Pennsylvania holding a rifle, but an American lion
Speaker 1: got back up.
Speaker 2: On his feet, and he you know who that guy is.
Speaker 2: I don't either. A few more here on Saturdays. I
Speaker 2: start laughing when I hear the music that they put
Speaker 2: like contemporary worship. All right, then, of course we're going
Speaker 2: to finish with this one. This is the one we've
Speaker 2: seen this, uh computer animation. All of us have seen
Speaker 2: it at some point lately. You Okay. So I got
Speaker 2: that one because I just thought it was interesting that
Speaker 2: it said one proof that God exists. And here's the proof,
Speaker 2: a computer animation of Trump turning his head. So three
Speaker 2: videos here, and those are just I literally found those
Speaker 2: thirty seconds ago as you're walking up up the stairs
Speaker 2: to come here, meaning I didn't have to look hard.
Speaker 2: I didn't like archive a certain one because that's more
Speaker 2: special than others. But I've been I've been fascinated with
Speaker 2: a few things regarding this whole attempted assassination. I've been
Speaker 2: fascinated with the God aspect to it. By the way,
Speaker 2: Marshall Canalis, pastor at a Mais Church with me today,
Speaker 2: as you've been with me many times, and not just
Speaker 2: pastor of a Mais church, but my pastor the church
Speaker 2: that I attend in Georgetown, Texas. And if you ever
Speaker 2: want to see me or Marshall, you just go there.
Speaker 2: That's where we are on Sundays. But this topic has
Speaker 2: been surprising to me. Maybe it shouldn't be this idea
Speaker 2: of God's sovereignty that's now on full display apparently because
Speaker 2: Trump turned his head, because there's another video I didn't
Speaker 2: record that talks about the angel Gabriel did that turned
Speaker 2: Trump's head at the last second so that the bullet missed.
Speaker 2: And God either did that, according to these videos, because
Speaker 2: it apparently he needed to intervene, or he did it
Speaker 2: in a way that would put on his put on
Speaker 2: display his sovereignty in front of everyone. Depending on these
Speaker 2: couple different viewpoints. It's a deep well to talk about,
Speaker 2: and I think you and I could hit briefly on
Speaker 2: this first break answering the question the general question did
Speaker 2: God save Trump? We can answer that, and I think
Speaker 2: that's probably somewhat of a title for this podcast. Did
Speaker 2: God save Trump? Or God didn't save Trump? Or God
Speaker 2: did save Trump? However we end up answering that, And
Speaker 2: then this other idea is how this idea of evil
Speaker 2: continues to be brought up as if there is there
Speaker 2: is an evil political party and a righteous political party,
Speaker 2: and the forces of evil are behind one side and
Speaker 2: the forces of righteousness are protecting the other side, which
Speaker 2: that in itself is a true idea, but not in
Speaker 2: political idea, not in political realm, In a spiritual realm,
Speaker 2: that's a true idea. So first let me ask you,
Speaker 2: not that I don't know, but for everyone as we
Speaker 2: have this discussion from you, what is what does God's sovereignty?
Speaker 2: What does that mean? And and and what are we
Speaker 2: to do with this? What does the Bible say about it?
Speaker 2: I guess we should say I have some verses here.
Speaker 3: Sovereignty just means that he has absolute rule and reign
Speaker 3: over everything in the world. Nothing catches him by surprise,
Speaker 3: nothing happens without him, first, ordaining it, and so he
Speaker 3: has absolute control over everything. And so you know, so
Speaker 3: the question about Trump, in some sense, I would say, yes,
Speaker 3: God did spare his life, Sure, agreed, But God forbid
Speaker 3: the bullet had hit Trump and he had died. God
Speaker 3: still would have been sovereign over exactly, and so his
Speaker 3: sovereignty is not contingent on the outcome of the event
Speaker 3: that took place. And so I can in good conscience say, yeah,
Speaker 3: the Lord was over that. But I don't want to
Speaker 3: dig into the second part of the question yet about
Speaker 3: evil forces and divine forces behind different parties or whatever.
Speaker 3: But there is a sense where God nothing happens outside
Speaker 3: of God's ordained control over what's going to take place
Speaker 3: in the world.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 3: When I see events like Saturday, no matter what the
Speaker 3: outcome is, I have to trust that the Lord was
Speaker 3: over it and did what he deems best in the
Speaker 3: moment for his glory and for our situation here in
Speaker 3: the world. And so so, yeah, all of it was
Speaker 3: under his control. None of it caught him off guard.
Speaker 3: So it wasn't like God looked down, saw the shooter
Speaker 3: on the rooftop and thought, oh, I gotta I gotta
Speaker 3: get Gabriel down there quick to turn Trump's head.
Speaker 2: Right, That's where I was hoping you'd go. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: wasn't like the Secret Service. Yeah yeah, he's this guy
Speaker 2: going to take a shot. Yeah, am I gonna need
Speaker 2: to come in last night?
Speaker 3: Right? So he So all of it, All of it
Speaker 3: happened as God had planned it to happen. And that's
Speaker 3: not popular when we think about negative things in the world.
Speaker 3: But I can't go against what I see happening in scripture,
Speaker 3: where God is in control of everything. It's actually uncomforting
Speaker 3: to think of worshiping a God or a being, worshiping
Speaker 3: a being who does not have absolute control over everything,
Speaker 3: because then really I'm not I can't really put true
Speaker 3: trust and hope into a being who does not have
Speaker 3: control over everything. And so so that's why in one
Speaker 3: since I can say, yeah, God saved Trump by sparing
Speaker 3: his life, but again, had a different outcome happened, I
Speaker 3: would have sat here and said God was still in
Speaker 3: control of what happened, And everything happened the way God
Speaker 3: wants it to happen because He's in control of it
Speaker 3: and nothing can port his ways.
Speaker 2: Right, So there's a slight nuance between what you said,
Speaker 2: and that's how the Bible represents God. And then there's
Speaker 2: another way to use sovereignty. For instance, in the Muslim world,
Speaker 2: Allah is known as sovereign. That's one of his main attributes.
Speaker 2: But it's not a personal sovereignty. It's more of all
Speaker 2: power almighty. But without the inner dealings of people, there
Speaker 2: is no personal dealings with the people, and so that's
Speaker 2: a big difference. We'll start with Psalm one of Three's nineteen.
Speaker 2: It says the Lord has established his throne in the heavens,
Speaker 2: and his kingdom rules over all. Very famous. These are
Speaker 2: basic verses, very famous. Proverb sixteen nine. The heart of
Speaker 2: man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his step.
Speaker 2: That is, so you have a kingdom, a rule over
Speaker 2: all the kingdom. But proverb sixteen to nine brings in
Speaker 2: a personal aspect to it, a step of a man
Speaker 2: that's very personal. I say forty six y to ten,
Speaker 2: declaring the end, from the beginning and from ancient times,
Speaker 2: things not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand and
Speaker 2: I will accomplish all my purpose, not just the big things,
Speaker 2: not just the ultimate the end things, but all the
Speaker 2: things that lead up to the big things. In fact,
Speaker 2: it can make a really good argument that it's nearly
Speaker 2: impossible to only establish the big things without establishing all
Speaker 2: the little things in between.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Because the big things only happen because a lot of
Speaker 2: little things happen, including a head turn by the president,
Speaker 2: the former president of the US.
Speaker 3: I mean you could even take it look deeper than that,
Speaker 3: with not just the head turn but the wind strength. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the you know, the gravitational pool of a bullet as
Speaker 3: it travels, like all that stuff. He has his control
Speaker 3: over all those little things.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's wild. And this is such an idea
Speaker 2: that's largely rejected by people. In fact, people are probably
Speaker 2: listening right now going, I don't know, I'm not a puppet.
Speaker 2: I dropped the pin. To those who know the reference
Speaker 2: Daniel four thirty five. All the inhabitants, inhabitants of the
Speaker 2: earth are accounted as nothing. And he does according to
Speaker 2: his will amongst the host of heaven and amongst the
Speaker 2: inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand
Speaker 2: or say to him, what have you done? Ephesians one
Speaker 2: to eleven. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having
Speaker 2: been predestined, predestined according to the purpose of Him who
Speaker 2: works all things according to the council of his will,
Speaker 2: which we know is good Som. One thirty five six.
Speaker 2: Whatever the Lord pleases, he does. And then it extends
Speaker 2: in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all
Speaker 2: the deeps everything. There is nothing outside of this kind
Speaker 2: of sovereignty that we're talking about. Proverbs nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 2: Many are the plans in the mind of a man,
Speaker 2: But it is the purpose of the Lord that will
Speaker 2: stand as they have fourteen twenty four. The host of
Speaker 2: the Lord of Host has sworn as I have planned,
Speaker 2: so it shall be, and as I have purposed, so
Speaker 2: it shall stand, which that verse gives us. Really in
Speaker 2: that context, it gives us an idea of that everything
Speaker 2: is planned. It's not a last minute adjustment or some
Speaker 2: kind of compromise or recalibration because of something that, because
Speaker 2: of some evil or anything. Uh. And then, of course,
Speaker 2: famous famously, Roman's nine is such a deep well where
Speaker 2: we see things like for he says to Moses. Paul writes,
Speaker 2: I have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I
Speaker 2: will have compassion on whom I have compassion and then
Speaker 2: so then it depends not on human will or exertion,
Speaker 2: but on God who has mercy as we as we
Speaker 2: work through. And by the way, I would recommend not
Speaker 2: not studying the Bible in the way that I'm presenting
Speaker 2: it right now, where we're just we're just shooting at
Speaker 2: these different verses, but instead reading through consistently some kind
Speaker 2: of some kind of way moving forward through scripture with
Speaker 2: some kind of consistent starting point, and then you see
Speaker 2: these ideas. Really through the entire canon of the Bible,
Speaker 2: you see these, you see sovereignty ideas, and you also
Speaker 2: simultaneously will see the call for human responsibility. It would
Speaker 2: be wrong of me to actually do this podcast with
Speaker 2: you and only talk about the Lord establishing steps according
Speaker 2: to his purpose and his plan, and not say that
Speaker 2: the Bible also teaches that we have a responsibility to
Speaker 2: respond to him. So why is it now that everyone goes, now,
Speaker 2: this is proof of God because Trump turned his head.
Speaker 3: I don't, I mean, it's only it's only certain people
Speaker 3: who are saying that.
Speaker 2: It's only certain people. It seems like a lot of them.
Speaker 3: It is a lot of them. But I don't know
Speaker 3: why this would be the moment that they do it,
Speaker 3: because one one act in history can't be the definitive
Speaker 3: proof that God exists. Yeah, because again, if if Trump
Speaker 3: had died on Saturday, would that have been proof that
Speaker 3: God doesn't exist? I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I really guide you went there. That's where I wanted
Speaker 2: you to go. And that's what what I want people
Speaker 2: to think for themselves through this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you got to think the reverse. You know,
Speaker 3: if he had if he would have died on Saturday,
Speaker 3: would that have been proof God didn't exist. Speculation as
Speaker 3: to why people probably lean towards this is proof God
Speaker 3: exists is because they've elevated Trump to a status he
Speaker 3: probably shouldn't be. And I'm not saying that because he's Trump.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that's that's true of any person. No person
Speaker 3: should be elevated that way. Like if somebody came into
Speaker 3: our church on Sunday and in the middle of my
Speaker 3: sermon pulled out a gun shot and it and it
Speaker 3: grazes my ear and the guy's tackled by our safety
Speaker 3: team and everything's taken care of. If a member came
Speaker 3: up afterwards, go this is proof God exists? I would
Speaker 3: be like, no, I no, I mean, I'm thankful God
Speaker 3: spared my life, but this is not proof that God exists.
Speaker 3: Just because the preacher, because you're the pastor and became
Speaker 3: I'm the pastor of the church. That's not proof God exists.
Speaker 3: That might be proof of his mercy and his grace
Speaker 3: towards me, but that's not That doesn't mean He's not
Speaker 3: those things if I die, because then this is where
Speaker 3: a belief in God's sovereignty is is is necessary, is
Speaker 3: in that moment, whether I live or die does not
Speaker 3: affect who God is. And it's and this, I mean,
Speaker 3: this goes into a deeper point of it's it's really
Speaker 3: dangerous to to see God through our situations instead of
Speaker 3: seeing our situations through how God's revealed himself in scripture.
Speaker 3: So if you know, you can take this really small.
Speaker 2: Stop and say that one more time, because those people
Speaker 2: need to hear that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just there's a real danger in viewing our or
Speaker 3: viewing God through our situations instead of viewing our situations
Speaker 3: through how God has revealed himself in scripture. Because if
Speaker 3: you take this super small to a smaller scale, if
Speaker 3: somebody loses their job and they go this is proof
Speaker 3: that God doesn't care about me. Well, now we're taking
Speaker 3: our situation and letting that dictate who God is, when really,
Speaker 3: every time God talks about himself in scripture, that's really
Speaker 3: a gift to us to help us see our situations rightly. So,
Speaker 3: if I know Scripture says God is good and that
Speaker 3: he's in control of everything because he's sovereign, that nothing
Speaker 3: is outside of his his ordained will, then when I
Speaker 3: look at situations, whether good or bad, that prevents me
Speaker 3: from over celebrating them and also becoming becoming overly anxious
Speaker 3: about them in either in either direction. Because God is
Speaker 3: Who God is is not determinative based on my situation,
Speaker 3: right Because I might be having the worst year of
Speaker 3: my life, the guy down the street from me might
Speaker 3: be having the best year of his life. We might
Speaker 3: both be professing Christians, we might both be pastors. Who's
Speaker 3: whose situation do we then use to base who God is?
Speaker 3: If we're through the same time, both profession Christians, both
Speaker 3: might be pastors in solid churches preaching the gospel, but
Speaker 3: our two experiences are drastically different. Couldn't be more different.
Speaker 3: Who whose situation are we then supposed to take and
Speaker 3: go that that's how we're supposed to see God. You
Speaker 3: just can't do it. That's so good and so so
Speaker 3: like with the Trump situation, I am thankful the Lord
Speaker 3: spared his life. But if there was an attempt on
Speaker 3: Biden's life, I'd be thankful if his life was spared.
Speaker 3: So this is not a political thing of whose party
Speaker 3: am I more in support of. It's a I think
Speaker 3: death is a result of the fall and sin, and
Speaker 3: so I can't find enjoyment in death. I don't celebrate it.
Speaker 3: It is a natural consequence of sin. And so when
Speaker 3: lives are spared in moments like that, I'm thankful the
Speaker 3: Lord he's spared lives in that I grieve the loss
Speaker 3: of the life that that was lost on Saturday by
Speaker 3: the bullet and so and then so there's there's ways
Speaker 3: to grieve that without celebrating it.
Speaker 2: That's actually a nice point to the idea that God
Speaker 2: there I the angel Gabriel uh intervened at the last
Speaker 2: second and diverted a bullet that then killed another man. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a very strange theology to think about. Instead, what
Speaker 2: the Bible says, and what you're saying is stop looking
Speaker 2: at our situations and then through the through the Bible,
Speaker 2: but instead the Bible, let that would be the lens.
Speaker 2: We look at the situation and that and what we
Speaker 2: see in the Bible is that all of our days
Speaker 2: are numbered. Before we were even born, we had a
Speaker 2: certain amount of days. So Trump has a certain amount
Speaker 2: of days. He has a day that's designated for him
Speaker 2: according to God's purpose. And so did that that man
Speaker 2: that stood behind him, that took that bullet. Those were
Speaker 2: not accidents and whatever. You and I both we have
Speaker 2: an expiration date. There is a there is a level
Speaker 2: of comfort knowing that that. It's profound.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I mean I think that's that's something
Speaker 3: we can learn from Saturday. Yeah, right, yeah, where we
Speaker 3: can just be reminded of our mortality. And yeah, and
Speaker 3: like like you said, with the it's a weird theology
Speaker 3: that Gabriel would one. I don't think that's how angels act.
Speaker 3: So that's a whole another topic.
Speaker 4: Gabriel also spoke to Mohammed, so right, yeah, so aparently
Speaker 4: but to like turn Trump's head but not protect the
Speaker 4: guy behind him, or why didn't Gabriel act two minutes earlier?
Speaker 3: So you know, some some critiques of the secret service
Speaker 3: right now could really be critiques of Gabriel. Really in
Speaker 3: some sense could be critiques of God.
Speaker 2: That's true, that the whole Angel staff needs to be evaluated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, why wasn't the guy's tire flattened on the way driving.
Speaker 2: To the gabler rallies where you're at, bro?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the title for the podcast, but you know so
Speaker 3: you could you could ask those same questions of Gabriel
Speaker 3: in that sense or God in that sense.
Speaker 2: The head angel needs to be fired. Yeah, title podcast.
Speaker 2: All right, we'll take a break and get to some questions.
Speaker 2: If you have a question for me, email podcast at
Speaker 2: grangersmith dot com. Hey, if you want to get a
Speaker 2: hold of me, go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith.
Speaker 2: You will find me there and from there I could
Speaker 2: build you a video message. I get your notes, and
Speaker 2: what you want me to say, like happy birthday, happy anniversary,
Speaker 2: a word of encouragement, congratulations, good job on the graduation,
Speaker 2: or why did you not make graduation? Whatever you want
Speaker 2: me to say. I'll read those notes and I pull
Speaker 2: out my phone and I record a video message and
Speaker 2: I say whatever you need me to say to whoever
Speaker 2: you need me to say it too, and I send
Speaker 2: it right back to you. It's super simple. It's a
Speaker 2: great gift for the person that you don't know what
Speaker 2: to buy for. Again, go to Cameo came eo dot
Speaker 2: com slash granger Smith. Okay, we're going to get into
Speaker 2: some emails now once again. The email addresses podcast at
Speaker 2: grangersmith dot com, and Julia is the first one. She says. How,
Speaker 2: my name is Julia. I'm twenty years old from a
Speaker 2: small town in northern Mexico. I've been blessed by your podcast.
Speaker 2: In fact, they are part of my conversion story. So
Speaker 2: I'd like to start off by thanking you for your
Speaker 2: time and effort putting them out, and as as a
Speaker 2: symbol of my belief in Jesus, I desire to get baptized. However,
Speaker 2: my Midnight Church practices the effusion method. When I told
Speaker 2: them that I would like to get baptized by immersion,
Speaker 2: they told me that they would take it into consideration,
Speaker 2: But they are talking about it more or less, talking
Speaker 2: about more or less a year until that might even
Speaker 2: be possible. What is your opinion on various methods? Since
Speaker 2: baptism is an immediate sign of obedience to God, should
Speaker 2: I go ahead and get baptized now or wait, I
Speaker 2: want to do it glorifies God most and be a
Speaker 2: blessing to others, but I'm not sure what that looks
Speaker 2: like for me. What are your thoughts or your advice? Hey,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. That's Julia. I'm so glad that
Speaker 2: you're listening and thinking through these things before I before
Speaker 2: we get started at all. You got the right guy
Speaker 2: with Marshall here. I'm going to give you an email
Speaker 2: Brooks Marv B r O O K E S m
Speaker 2: A r V at gmail dot com. He is our
Speaker 2: Minnonite brother and he would love to talk to you
Speaker 2: about maybe deeper into the Mennonite faith. And I trust
Speaker 2: what Marv says, So I got that for you. Encouraged
Speaker 2: by Julia here, it's encouraging that she's she's thinking through
Speaker 2: these things and she seems to have a good heart
Speaker 2: posture about desiring to do what glorifies God most and
Speaker 2: a desire to also be obedient to the authority in
Speaker 2: her church leadership. So she has I just Julia, I
Speaker 2: see so many emails that I've seen so many emails
Speaker 2: for eight years, and usually you see something like this
Speaker 2: where they say I'm leaving my church, or I'm going
Speaker 2: to do it my Church's way, not the Bible's way,
Speaker 2: or there's it's just some extreme and it it always
Speaker 2: ends up feeling a little a little self centered. So
Speaker 2: if if if Julia came to a MAIS and so, look,
Speaker 2: I'm visiting, I'm on vacation, i have some cousins here
Speaker 2: in Georgetown, Texas, but I'm going back on Monday to
Speaker 2: northern Mexico. What would you what would you want to
Speaker 2: equip her with as she goes back to Mexico. Yeah?
Speaker 3: Uh so we practice at full immersion at a mais.
Speaker 3: Seems to be what we see in scripture pretty consistently.
Speaker 3: That being said, I have friends Marv, yeah, Min and
Speaker 3: my brother. I have friends in the Presbyterian Church where
Speaker 3: they don't practice full immersion at least in all of
Speaker 3: them in the way that they do baptisms. And while
Speaker 3: I would encourage them to reconsider that, I can't say
Speaker 3: that person is not a Christian because they didn't do it. So,
Speaker 3: first of all, you gotta we gotta recognize there's no
Speaker 3: saving power or aspect to baptism itself. It is an
Speaker 3: act a person does to profess faith in Jesus or
Speaker 3: not too, but a nact somebody does to visually represent
Speaker 3: what's happened spiritually to them.
Speaker 2: And sounds like Julia understand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to clarify that. And so,
Speaker 3: especially when we see the explanation of baptism and scripture
Speaker 3: being buried like Christ risen with Christ, there's a symbol
Speaker 3: aspect to it. Mostly when we say full immersion, you're
Speaker 3: getting dunked in water coming out, So there's part of
Speaker 3: the symbolism there. But because there is no saving aspect
Speaker 3: to baptism itself, I can't tell somebody they're not a
Speaker 3: Christian because the baptism didn't happen specifically the way it
Speaker 3: was supposed to. And so what I would want to
Speaker 3: ask her is one, if it is her conviction that
Speaker 3: it's by immersion, which is what I would encourage, are
Speaker 3: there any solid churches around her that practice that that
Speaker 3: she can connect to there, Because one thing we tell
Speaker 3: people at our church visiting our church is if you
Speaker 3: disagree with what we teach, then let us help you
Speaker 3: find a gospel preaching church that agrees with this secondary issue, which.
Speaker 2: Is what it is everyone.
Speaker 3: It's a second secondary issue. Let us help you find
Speaker 3: a church in our area that preaches the gospel that
Speaker 3: holds the same convictions on the secondary issue. You do
Speaker 3: because you don't want to cause contention in the church.
Speaker 3: And so that's one thing she needs to wressful with.
Speaker 3: Is she fully convinced and convicted that this is the
Speaker 3: right mode of getting baptized. But one thing we say
Speaker 3: in our membership class when we talk about baptism is
Speaker 3: that the most important things related to baptism are was
Speaker 3: the gospel? Is it in a gospel preaching context? So
Speaker 3: was the gospel preached? And then was it done after conversion?
Speaker 3: So for us, a true baptism is in the gospel
Speaker 3: preaching context after conversion has taken place. So those things
Speaker 3: seem to fit her situation. But as far as what
Speaker 3: I should tell her to do for her church leadership
Speaker 3: is if you're at a church, you submit to the
Speaker 3: current leadership there. I can disagree with the church leadership
Speaker 3: on secondary issues. As a pastor of a different church
Speaker 3: and different denomination. Doesn't mean that they're heretical, does not
Speaker 3: mean that they don't believe Jesus. It just means we
Speaker 3: disagree on secondary issues. But if it's a conviction of
Speaker 3: hers that she needs to be immersed, then she needs
Speaker 3: to get plugged into a church and connected with the
Speaker 3: church where she can affirm what they believe in what
Speaker 3: they practice.
Speaker 2: Let's talk quickly about the first tier issues. This comes
Speaker 2: up nearly every podcast in some way a second or
Speaker 2: third tier issue. Baptism is second. So what does that
Speaker 2: mean to someone? Because a lot of people get really
Speaker 2: tied up in that, and so we should probably continue
Speaker 2: to establish what are the issues that if that's not taught,
Speaker 2: that's not considered Christianity at all. And we would usually
Speaker 2: start with the trinity saying God being one being, existing
Speaker 2: as three persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, same in purpose,
Speaker 2: different in role, which is why the most common argument
Speaker 2: I see is Jesus praying to the Father in the garden.
Speaker 2: He is submitting to the Father in his role as
Speaker 2: the son. So any anyway, the Trinity, that whole concept
Speaker 2: being revealed throughout the canon would be a first here issue.
Speaker 2: You disagree with that, you're gonna have to leave the church.
Speaker 2: And it's not it's not christian The divinity, divinity, and
Speaker 2: humanity of Jesus has to be established if a church
Speaker 2: believes any less than Jesus's manhood or his divinity, either
Speaker 2: one hundred percent man one hundred percent God. It's not
Speaker 2: Christian to think any other way, not because we've established
Speaker 2: it that way, but because that's what the Bible says,
Speaker 2: and that's what the Bible teaches. Third, we would say
Speaker 2: the inerity of the Bible, the scriptures divinely inspired, and
Speaker 2: we believe them to be correct as they have revealed
Speaker 2: themselves once again, not because we're establishing them to be correct,
Speaker 2: because they themselves testify to themselves that the Bible is
Speaker 2: completely inerit. What I'm missing? What's the fourth one? We
Speaker 2: have trinity, we have we have divinity, Community of Christ,
Speaker 2: we have the ineranity of scripture, and we have.
Speaker 3: I mean I would if I was categorizing, I put salvation.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the fourth one. Salvation. You're saved
Speaker 2: by grace through faith in Jesus alone.
Speaker 3: Which is which. So baptism can bleed into a primary
Speaker 3: issue if somebody is arguing that baptism is part of
Speaker 3: what saves you.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 3: So if there is some salvafic act to baptism that
Speaker 3: could make it a prior primary issue, that's because it's
Speaker 3: bleeding into what we're saying is the only means of
Speaker 3: salvation that is through faith and repentance in Jesus Christ alone.
Speaker 3: But baptism itself is in the way that it's practice,
Speaker 3: whether it's by you know, pouring, sprinkling, full immersion, that
Speaker 3: that would be a secondary issue.
Speaker 2: Yep. So those four. Let's remember those four, Julia, I
Speaker 2: think you're fully equipped. Email Marv. I think what Marshall
Speaker 2: told you is great, and let's always remember that the
Speaker 2: four top tier issues. If we're not breaking one of
Speaker 2: those four, then then let's think through this with church
Speaker 2: leadership and other believers around you. If it breaks one
Speaker 2: of those four, then we're gonna say you have to
Speaker 2: leave the church immediately. And it's just not it's not
Speaker 2: even Christian, all right. Anonymous says, Hey Granger, a little background.
Speaker 2: I'm thirty two, my wife is thirty one. We have
Speaker 2: a beautiful daughter that is two, and a son due
Speaker 2: in October. My wife wants to put her house on
Speaker 2: the market this week and move to her family's property.
Speaker 2: She says this is temporary. I'm extremely hesitant about moving
Speaker 2: near family in general. I've lived near my family before
Speaker 2: and want to move away completely, to have something that
Speaker 2: is ours. I'm just wanting wondering what your thoughts are
Speaker 2: on living within eyeshot of family in general. Thanks Anonymous,
Speaker 2: so much information I don't know about this question. Is
Speaker 2: this a financial move? What's the purpose of this? She
Speaker 2: wants to put the house on the market and move
Speaker 2: onto her family's property. Are we moving in because it's
Speaker 2: a cult, because money's a little tight. Look, because I
Speaker 2: don't know so much, I'm gonna have to say, Anonymous,
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're the husband establishing ltablishing some concrete guidelines.
Speaker 2: I don't want to say rules, but you're gonna have
Speaker 2: to say, look, according to the knowledge that you don't
Speaker 2: that I don't know, but you do. You're gonna have
Speaker 2: to say, we're looking at this amount of dollars saved,
Speaker 2: We're looking at this property that we're looking forward to,
Speaker 2: or this neighborhood that we were trying to get into.
Speaker 2: Once we established this amount of money that we could
Speaker 2: put aside so we could have this monthly payment, and
Speaker 2: then this is going to happen in October of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five at the latest, We're gonna have to move out.
Speaker 2: If you feel this convicted about living close to your
Speaker 2: family to her family, you're gonna have to do that otherwise.
Speaker 2: Otherwise it sounds a little strange that your wife is
Speaker 2: deciding where you guys are going to live, and she's
Speaker 2: the one saying that this is going to be temporary,
Speaker 2: and it sounds through this email that you are just
Speaker 2: kind of following her lead. Would sound like it's going
Speaker 2: it's going to be a problem eventually, and that's why
Speaker 2: you're emailing me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not much to add other than really just in general,
Speaker 3: my counsel is don't make big decisions based on preferences.
Speaker 3: So if she if she's made if she's presenting a
Speaker 3: case where this because of facts, so like financially, this
Speaker 3: actually helps the family, and you just would prefer not
Speaker 3: to live close to family, don't make a big decision
Speaker 3: not to do it just because your preference would be different. Great,
Speaker 3: So don't make big decisions based on preferences. Look at facts.
Speaker 2: Hey, you're very blessed if you if you actually have
Speaker 2: the opportunity to live on your on this family's property.
Speaker 2: Because it's a money issue, that's great. Take it. Just
Speaker 2: put a deadline on it.
Speaker 3: And the other thing I was gonna say is when
Speaker 3: people tell me they're gonna do something temporary, I always
Speaker 3: tell them, okay, well, temporary means you you'll have some
Speaker 3: sort of steps in place where you say, once these
Speaker 3: things have been hit, that's when the temporary's over.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 3: Don't claim temporary on something. If it's kind of an
Speaker 3: indefinite thing, that's great. Put markers there of when these
Speaker 3: things are hit. That's when we know temporaries over.
Speaker 2: This is great, Candy says hi, mister Smith. I want
Speaker 2: to say how grateful I am for your podcast. It's
Speaker 2: affected my daily life and my faith. My name is
Speaker 2: Candy from Arizona. I've recently started listening to your podcast
Speaker 2: after my boyfriend introduced me to it, and I have
Speaker 2: nearly listened to it every day now. In hopes that
Speaker 2: you read this, I ask for your wisdom regarding my situation.
Speaker 2: One week ago, I felt my relationship was in a
Speaker 2: healthy place until I discovered my boyfriend of two years
Speaker 2: has been addicted to porn. This tore me to pieces
Speaker 2: and I was set on leaving. However, I decided to
Speaker 2: choose forgiveness for our love. I've decided to choose forgiveness
Speaker 2: and love over letting evil win? She says that was
Speaker 2: not easy. Once I did, we both decided to be
Speaker 2: saved by Jesus and work towards recovery while strengthening our faith.
Speaker 2: It has been an emotional roller coaster, and I question
Speaker 2: a lot in this new relationship and what is even
Speaker 2: right anymore? My question is what advice do you have
Speaker 2: for us as a couple? Also? Should I be more
Speaker 2: cautious with our renewed relationship? Thank you, and have a
Speaker 2: blessed day? Was it him? Was it the same boyfriend
Speaker 2: that introduced her to the podcast?
Speaker 3: That's what it sounded late.
Speaker 2: Man, I'm glad you still listen to the podcast. It
Speaker 2: seems like you would just take all of his advice
Speaker 2: and say, I'm not doing that anymore. So I'm grateful
Speaker 2: that you're still listening through this. She say, Oh, oh,
Speaker 2: she is. I'm assuming pretty young, like I'm assuming low twenties.
Speaker 2: I don't think it says say that interesting questions here?
Speaker 2: You know what your question sounds like you are you're
Speaker 2: having questions about this. I don't think you would have
Speaker 2: emailed me. Should I be more cautious? If you aren't
Speaker 2: already something stirring within you? And you're feeling, you're feeling
Speaker 2: some kind of some kind of entanglement right emotionally. Let
Speaker 2: me repeat your own words to yourself here. You say,
Speaker 2: once I did as a forgiving You said, once I did.
Speaker 2: We both decided to be saved by Jesus and work
Speaker 2: towards recovery while strengthening our faith. It has been an
Speaker 2: emotional roller coaster, and I question a lot in this
Speaker 2: new relationship and what is right anymore? I say, why?
Speaker 2: Why has it been emotional? Why do you question things?
Speaker 2: That's telling me things are weird? Yeah, and pretty superficial.
Speaker 2: We've said here a whole bunch in fact that Marshall
Speaker 2: actually preached about forgiveness recently, and sometimes so many times,
Speaker 2: so many times on these emails, I see people confusing
Speaker 2: forgiveness with trusting. You chose to forgive, you say, to
Speaker 2: let love win over evil, you say, And it sounds
Speaker 2: like you're saying, I'm choosing to trust him in a
Speaker 2: renewed relationship. That's a big difference between forgiving right. Once again,
Speaker 2: we're dealing with with so so many things we don't
Speaker 2: we don't know, but it's it sounds like you're in
Speaker 2: a place where you're this is not you're not ready
Speaker 2: to fully renew this relationship. You're of course, you're in
Speaker 2: a place where you can forgive. That's not in question here.
Speaker 2: You know me, I would love to zoom in on
Speaker 2: what this means that you decided to be saved by
Speaker 2: Jesus together. What do you say, Marshall about two people
Speaker 2: that decide together that they will be saved by Jesus?
Speaker 2: What does that mean?
Speaker 3: Usually I have a lot of questions, but I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna say it's impossible that two people can get saved
Speaker 3: at the exact same time. Because God can do anything
Speaker 3: he wants. I would say that is extremely, extremely unlikely
Speaker 3: and rare if it happens. But hear me say it
Speaker 3: is possible. The Lord could do it. But I have
Speaker 3: follow up questions because even the wording of it, we
Speaker 3: decided that we we were going to be saved by Jesus.
Speaker 3: That's not really the language I see the Bible using
Speaker 3: when it talks about salvation. It's not really the language
Speaker 3: I would encourage Christians to use when they talk about
Speaker 3: getting saved, because it kind of makes it sound like
Speaker 3: Jesus was just sitting there and kind of like, hey,
Speaker 3: you can get saved to any point you want, and
Speaker 3: that's just not how scripture really presents. It's the reason
Speaker 3: I say it's it's it would be extremely rare for
Speaker 3: two people in the exact same moment to get saved
Speaker 3: is because the Lord works in our hearts and changes
Speaker 3: our hearts to accept the salvation that's been brought through Jesus.
Speaker 3: Which is why I said it's possible the Lord could
Speaker 3: do that in two hearts at the exact same moment,
Speaker 3: at the exact same time. But it seems like what's
Speaker 3: been being said here was contingent on a response to
Speaker 3: an exposure of some sin that happened. So I mean
Speaker 3: follow up questions I have to this. Okay, well, if
Speaker 3: you're both professing Christians, now are you in a church
Speaker 3: that's going to help you determine if one of you
Speaker 3: or both of you are actually Christian. People will pour
Speaker 3: into you two that'll help him by getting plugged in
Speaker 3: with other guys to call him out in the sin.
Speaker 3: Three just follow up questions to this. Was he asking
Speaker 3: for forgiveness and sorry because he got caught with this?
Speaker 3: Did he just come to you and admit, like, hey,
Speaker 3: this is something I've been struggling with and I really
Speaker 3: value our relationships. I want to get out of this.
Speaker 3: I want to stop being addicted to these things and
Speaker 3: I need help. Yeah, and then just else, like you're dating,
Speaker 3: so don't act married. You don't have a promise to
Speaker 3: this guy like a wife would to her husband, and
Speaker 3: he doesn't have a promise to you like a husband
Speaker 3: would to his wife. And so if you don't see
Speaker 3: this going anywhere in a direction towards marriage, and just
Speaker 3: break it off. And I would say that whether you
Speaker 3: guys were having problems or not. But I agree with
Speaker 3: as you were reading it, it sounds like there's deeper issues.
Speaker 3: I agree with the forgiveness doesn't equal trust. So one
Speaker 3: of the points I made in the Sermon on Forgiveness
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago was that there's a difference
Speaker 3: between forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration. So Christians, this is unpopular
Speaker 3: in culture, but this is what the Bible says multiple times,
Speaker 3: almost word for word. Christians are required to forgive. I
Speaker 3: don't know how to get those verses out to everybody,
Speaker 3: but if you look it up, Christians are It says
Speaker 3: you must forgive as you've been forgiven. And so there's
Speaker 3: not a choice. I mean, I was preaching on the
Speaker 3: parable of the unforgiving servant, and the endpoint was, so
Speaker 3: you have to forgive. That was Jesus's point in giving
Speaker 3: the parable. But forgiveness, when we equate it to trust,
Speaker 3: means well, I'm just supposed to pretend like nothing happened,
Speaker 3: and I'm just automatally supposed to trust you hundred percent.
Speaker 3: That's not true. Forgiveness is kind of the doorway into reconciliation,
Speaker 3: which means we're going to figure out. So when forgiveness
Speaker 3: takes place, and then the person who offended does repenting
Speaker 3: asks for forgiveness, so one forgiveness can actually be given
Speaker 3: even if the person doesn't ask for it. But that
Speaker 3: doesn't mean reconciliation happens. Reconciliation only happens when forgiveness and
Speaker 3: repentance are in play, and that's you working together to
Speaker 3: figure out how to to just be to people who
Speaker 3: are kind to one another and how do you grow
Speaker 3: from that. Once reconciliation's taken place, then a process starts
Speaker 3: towards restoration. So this is why with married couples, when
Speaker 3: something happens, forgiveness takes place. But reconciliation is a process. Okay,
Speaker 3: how we're gonna actually live together's husband and wife? After
Speaker 3: this has been committed, I'm not going to hold it
Speaker 3: against you by constantly bringing it up again. So that's
Speaker 3: one thing with forgiveness is we don't keep bringing this
Speaker 3: situation up once we've forgiven. But there also are consequences
Speaker 3: to sin. So what does life look like as I
Speaker 3: face the consequences to my sin and as we agree
Speaker 3: on those and work towards those, that's the reconciliation that's
Speaker 3: taking place, and Lord willing. When reconciliation is going well
Speaker 3: and progressing forward, it then produces a restored relationship. But
Speaker 3: there are some situations. This is more about forgiveness than
Speaker 3: her specific question.
Speaker 2: No, I think this is. I think it's helpful for
Speaker 2: everyone listening.
Speaker 3: But there are situations where the sin is so heinous
Speaker 3: that forgiveness can be done by a Christian. Again, because
Speaker 3: scripture tells us we are required to forgive, and that's
Speaker 3: more than just saying okay, I forgive you, So there's
Speaker 3: much more to say about that. But that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: mean we just go hang out with the person the
Speaker 3: sin was so heinous it means restoration is never going
Speaker 3: to be possible.
Speaker 2: And I think you also said in the sermon that
Speaker 2: you could be in their reconciliation process and still restoration. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: That's a lot for this I dig in deeper.
Speaker 2: But I think that a lot of that's also helpful
Speaker 2: for other people listening that are not necessarily in this
Speaker 2: same position. But I think that also works for Candy
Speaker 2: in this situation. I think you're not married, don't act
Speaker 2: like you are. Is great. Saying language like letting our
Speaker 2: love win over evil is a little strange in a
Speaker 2: dating relationship. And the only way I'm buying that we
Speaker 2: were both saved by Jesus is you would have to
Speaker 2: say something like we went to we went to church
Speaker 2: and the message cut us so deeply, like we would
Speaker 2: see in the Book of Acts when multiple people would
Speaker 2: be saved at the same time. It was from hearing
Speaker 2: a gospel message. And so it's not you're speaking in
Speaker 2: terms of making a decision like you guys decided to
Speaker 2: get married, Like we both decided to get married and
Speaker 2: to work towards recovery. That's instead you used saved by Jesus. Instead,
Speaker 2: we decided to be to get mad maried, and so
Speaker 2: I think I think, I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 3: And to clarify my point, I do think multiple people
Speaker 3: can get saved under the same gospel preaching. Like yeah,
Speaker 3: I just meant from the situation she is describing, for
Speaker 3: two people to say, yeah, we're just driving in the
Speaker 3: truck together and we both just decided then and there.
Speaker 2: We talked it out and we decided, hey, let's put
Speaker 2: our faith in Jesus.
Speaker 3: That's the more extremely rare situation I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think I think extremely rare is actually
Speaker 2: being generous and that okay, So Candy, I hope that helps.
Speaker 2: This is going to be the last email of the
Speaker 2: of the podcast, and I think I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: trust this guy, and I don't think you do either,
Speaker 2: and I think that's why you email me. And I
Speaker 2: think if you get anything out of this, if you
Speaker 2: we said a lot, if you get anything out of this,
Speaker 2: I think that the most important thing through it is
Speaker 2: is joining a local church where you could, like Marshall said,
Speaker 2: be surrounded by people that affirm your faith for one,
Speaker 2: this profession of Jesus that you've made, and they could
Speaker 2: help hold him accountable and you accountable at the same time,
Speaker 2: and help you walk through what does forgiveness mean? What
Speaker 2: does letting love win? What does that mean? In a
Speaker 2: biblical sense? And in a local church, will do all
Speaker 2: of those things for you and help you walk in
Speaker 2: your singleness towards Lord, willing your marriage partner that you'll
Speaker 2: have one day. Yeah, yeah, thank you guys, see you
Speaker 2: next Monday. Thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.
Speaker 2: I appreciate all of you guys. You could help me
Speaker 2: out by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube,
Speaker 2: subscribe to this channel, hit that little like button and
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Speaker 2: a video. Yii