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Speaker 1: You didn't believe in miracles before Saturday, you better be

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Speaker 1: believing right now. Thank God Almighty, that we live in

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Speaker 1: a country that still believes in the King of Kings

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Speaker 1: and the Lord of lords. The Alba have the Omega,

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Speaker 1: and our God, our God still says, he still delivers

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Speaker 1: and he still sets free. Because on Saturday, the devil

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Speaker 1: came to Pennsylvania holding a rifle, but an American lion

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Speaker 1: got back up.

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Speaker 2: On his feet, and he you know who that guy is.

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Speaker 2: I don't either. A few more here on Saturdays. I

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Speaker 2: start laughing when I hear the music that they put

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Speaker 2: like contemporary worship. All right, then, of course we're going

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Speaker 2: to finish with this one. This is the one we've

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Speaker 2: seen this, uh computer animation. All of us have seen

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Speaker 2: it at some point lately. You Okay. So I got

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Speaker 2: that one because I just thought it was interesting that

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Speaker 2: it said one proof that God exists. And here's the proof,

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Speaker 2: a computer animation of Trump turning his head. So three

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Speaker 2: videos here, and those are just I literally found those

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds ago as you're walking up up the stairs

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Speaker 2: to come here, meaning I didn't have to look hard.

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Speaker 2: I didn't like archive a certain one because that's more

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Speaker 2: special than others. But I've been I've been fascinated with

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Speaker 2: a few things regarding this whole attempted assassination. I've been

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Speaker 2: fascinated with the God aspect to it. By the way,

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Speaker 2: Marshall Canalis, pastor at a Mais Church with me today,

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Speaker 2: as you've been with me many times, and not just

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Speaker 2: pastor of a Mais church, but my pastor the church

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Speaker 2: that I attend in Georgetown, Texas. And if you ever

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Speaker 2: want to see me or Marshall, you just go there.

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Speaker 2: That's where we are on Sundays. But this topic has

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Speaker 2: been surprising to me. Maybe it shouldn't be this idea

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Speaker 2: of God's sovereignty that's now on full display apparently because

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Speaker 2: Trump turned his head, because there's another video I didn't

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Speaker 2: record that talks about the angel Gabriel did that turned

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Speaker 2: Trump's head at the last second so that the bullet missed.

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Speaker 2: And God either did that, according to these videos, because

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Speaker 2: it apparently he needed to intervene, or he did it

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Speaker 2: in a way that would put on his put on

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Speaker 2: display his sovereignty in front of everyone. Depending on these

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Speaker 2: couple different viewpoints. It's a deep well to talk about,

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Speaker 2: and I think you and I could hit briefly on

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Speaker 2: this first break answering the question the general question did

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Speaker 2: God save Trump? We can answer that, and I think

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Speaker 2: that's probably somewhat of a title for this podcast. Did

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Speaker 2: God save Trump? Or God didn't save Trump? Or God

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Speaker 2: did save Trump? However we end up answering that, And

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Speaker 2: then this other idea is how this idea of evil

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Speaker 2: continues to be brought up as if there is there

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Speaker 2: is an evil political party and a righteous political party,

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Speaker 2: and the forces of evil are behind one side and

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Speaker 2: the forces of righteousness are protecting the other side, which

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Speaker 2: that in itself is a true idea, but not in

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Speaker 2: political idea, not in political realm, In a spiritual realm,

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Speaker 2: that's a true idea. So first let me ask you,

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Speaker 2: not that I don't know, but for everyone as we

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Speaker 2: have this discussion from you, what is what does God's sovereignty?

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? And and and what are we

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Speaker 2: to do with this? What does the Bible say about it?

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Speaker 2: I guess we should say I have some verses here.

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Speaker 3: Sovereignty just means that he has absolute rule and reign

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Speaker 3: over everything in the world. Nothing catches him by surprise,

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Speaker 3: nothing happens without him, first, ordaining it, and so he

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Speaker 3: has absolute control over everything. And so you know, so

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Speaker 3: the question about Trump, in some sense, I would say, yes,

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Speaker 3: God did spare his life, Sure, agreed, But God forbid

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Speaker 3: the bullet had hit Trump and he had died. God

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Speaker 3: still would have been sovereign over exactly, and so his

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Speaker 3: sovereignty is not contingent on the outcome of the event

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Speaker 3: that took place. And so I can in good conscience say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: the Lord was over that. But I don't want to

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Speaker 3: dig into the second part of the question yet about

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Speaker 3: evil forces and divine forces behind different parties or whatever.

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Speaker 3: But there is a sense where God nothing happens outside

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Speaker 3: of God's ordained control over what's going to take place

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Speaker 3: in the world.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 3: When I see events like Saturday, no matter what the

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Speaker 3: outcome is, I have to trust that the Lord was

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Speaker 3: over it and did what he deems best in the

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Speaker 3: moment for his glory and for our situation here in

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Speaker 3: the world. And so so, yeah, all of it was

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Speaker 3: under his control. None of it caught him off guard.

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Speaker 3: So it wasn't like God looked down, saw the shooter

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Speaker 3: on the rooftop and thought, oh, I gotta I gotta

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Speaker 3: get Gabriel down there quick to turn Trump's head.

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Speaker 2: Right, That's where I was hoping you'd go. Yeah, he

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Speaker 2: wasn't like the Secret Service. Yeah yeah, he's this guy

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Speaker 2: going to take a shot. Yeah, am I gonna need

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Speaker 2: to come in last night?

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Speaker 3: Right? So he So all of it, All of it

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Speaker 3: happened as God had planned it to happen. And that's

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Speaker 3: not popular when we think about negative things in the world.

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Speaker 3: But I can't go against what I see happening in scripture,

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Speaker 3: where God is in control of everything. It's actually uncomforting

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Speaker 3: to think of worshiping a God or a being, worshiping

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Speaker 3: a being who does not have absolute control over everything,

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Speaker 3: because then really I'm not I can't really put true

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Speaker 3: trust and hope into a being who does not have

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Speaker 3: control over everything. And so so that's why in one

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Speaker 3: since I can say, yeah, God saved Trump by sparing

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Speaker 3: his life, but again, had a different outcome happened, I

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Speaker 3: would have sat here and said God was still in

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Speaker 3: control of what happened, And everything happened the way God

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Speaker 3: wants it to happen because He's in control of it

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Speaker 3: and nothing can port his ways.

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Speaker 2: Right, So there's a slight nuance between what you said,

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Speaker 2: and that's how the Bible represents God. And then there's

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Speaker 2: another way to use sovereignty. For instance, in the Muslim world,

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Speaker 2: Allah is known as sovereign. That's one of his main attributes.

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Speaker 2: But it's not a personal sovereignty. It's more of all

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Speaker 2: power almighty. But without the inner dealings of people, there

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Speaker 2: is no personal dealings with the people, and so that's

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Speaker 2: a big difference. We'll start with Psalm one of Three's nineteen.

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Speaker 2: It says the Lord has established his throne in the heavens,

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Speaker 2: and his kingdom rules over all. Very famous. These are

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Speaker 2: basic verses, very famous. Proverb sixteen nine. The heart of

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Speaker 2: man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his step.

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Speaker 2: That is, so you have a kingdom, a rule over

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Speaker 2: all the kingdom. But proverb sixteen to nine brings in

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Speaker 2: a personal aspect to it, a step of a man

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Speaker 2: that's very personal. I say forty six y to ten,

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Speaker 2: declaring the end, from the beginning and from ancient times,

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Speaker 2: things not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand and

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Speaker 2: I will accomplish all my purpose, not just the big things,

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Speaker 2: not just the ultimate the end things, but all the

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Speaker 2: things that lead up to the big things. In fact,

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Speaker 2: it can make a really good argument that it's nearly

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Speaker 2: impossible to only establish the big things without establishing all

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Speaker 2: the little things in between.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: Because the big things only happen because a lot of

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Speaker 2: little things happen, including a head turn by the president,

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Speaker 2: the former president of the US.

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Speaker 3: I mean you could even take it look deeper than that,

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Speaker 3: with not just the head turn but the wind strength. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the you know, the gravitational pool of a bullet as

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Speaker 3: it travels, like all that stuff. He has his control

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Speaker 3: over all those little things.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's wild. And this is such an idea

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Speaker 2: that's largely rejected by people. In fact, people are probably

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Speaker 2: listening right now going, I don't know, I'm not a puppet.

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Speaker 2: I dropped the pin. To those who know the reference

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Speaker 2: Daniel four thirty five. All the inhabitants, inhabitants of the

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Speaker 2: earth are accounted as nothing. And he does according to

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Speaker 2: his will amongst the host of heaven and amongst the

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Speaker 2: inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand

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Speaker 2: or say to him, what have you done? Ephesians one

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Speaker 2: to eleven. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having

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Speaker 2: been predestined, predestined according to the purpose of Him who

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Speaker 2: works all things according to the council of his will,

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Speaker 2: which we know is good Som. One thirty five six.

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Speaker 2: Whatever the Lord pleases, he does. And then it extends

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Speaker 2: in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all

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Speaker 2: the deeps everything. There is nothing outside of this kind

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Speaker 2: of sovereignty that we're talking about. Proverbs nineteen twenty one.

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Speaker 2: Many are the plans in the mind of a man,

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Speaker 2: But it is the purpose of the Lord that will

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Speaker 2: stand as they have fourteen twenty four. The host of

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Speaker 2: the Lord of Host has sworn as I have planned,

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Speaker 2: so it shall be, and as I have purposed, so

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Speaker 2: it shall stand, which that verse gives us. Really in

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Speaker 2: that context, it gives us an idea of that everything

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Speaker 2: is planned. It's not a last minute adjustment or some

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Speaker 2: kind of compromise or recalibration because of something that, because

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Speaker 2: of some evil or anything. Uh. And then, of course,

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Speaker 2: famous famously, Roman's nine is such a deep well where

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Speaker 2: we see things like for he says to Moses. Paul writes,

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Speaker 2: I have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I

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Speaker 2: will have compassion on whom I have compassion and then

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Speaker 2: so then it depends not on human will or exertion,

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Speaker 2: but on God who has mercy as we as we

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Speaker 2: work through. And by the way, I would recommend not

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Speaker 2: not studying the Bible in the way that I'm presenting

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Speaker 2: it right now, where we're just we're just shooting at

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Speaker 2: these different verses, but instead reading through consistently some kind

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Speaker 2: of some kind of way moving forward through scripture with

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Speaker 2: some kind of consistent starting point, and then you see

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Speaker 2: these ideas. Really through the entire canon of the Bible,

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Speaker 2: you see these, you see sovereignty ideas, and you also

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Speaker 2: simultaneously will see the call for human responsibility. It would

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Speaker 2: be wrong of me to actually do this podcast with

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Speaker 2: you and only talk about the Lord establishing steps according

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Speaker 2: to his purpose and his plan, and not say that

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Speaker 2: the Bible also teaches that we have a responsibility to

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Speaker 2: respond to him. So why is it now that everyone goes, now,

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Speaker 2: this is proof of God because Trump turned his head.

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Speaker 3: I don't, I mean, it's only it's only certain people

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Speaker 3: who are saying that.

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Speaker 2: It's only certain people. It seems like a lot of them.

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Speaker 3: It is a lot of them. But I don't know

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Speaker 3: why this would be the moment that they do it,

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Speaker 3: because one one act in history can't be the definitive

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Speaker 3: proof that God exists. Yeah, because again, if if Trump

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Speaker 3: had died on Saturday, would that have been proof that

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Speaker 3: God doesn't exist? I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I really guide you went there. That's where I wanted

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Speaker 2: you to go. And that's what what I want people

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Speaker 2: to think for themselves through this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you got to think the reverse. You know,

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Speaker 3: if he had if he would have died on Saturday,

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Speaker 3: would that have been proof God didn't exist. Speculation as

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Speaker 3: to why people probably lean towards this is proof God

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Speaker 3: exists is because they've elevated Trump to a status he

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Speaker 3: probably shouldn't be. And I'm not saying that because he's Trump.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying that's that's true of any person. No person

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Speaker 3: should be elevated that way. Like if somebody came into

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Speaker 3: our church on Sunday and in the middle of my

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Speaker 3: sermon pulled out a gun shot and it and it

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Speaker 3: grazes my ear and the guy's tackled by our safety

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Speaker 3: team and everything's taken care of. If a member came

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Speaker 3: up afterwards, go this is proof God exists? I would

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Speaker 3: be like, no, I no, I mean, I'm thankful God

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Speaker 3: spared my life, but this is not proof that God exists.

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Speaker 3: Just because the preacher, because you're the pastor and became

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Speaker 3: I'm the pastor of the church. That's not proof God exists.

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Speaker 3: That might be proof of his mercy and his grace

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Speaker 3: towards me, but that's not That doesn't mean He's not

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Speaker 3: those things if I die, because then this is where

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Speaker 3: a belief in God's sovereignty is is is necessary, is

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Speaker 3: in that moment, whether I live or die does not

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Speaker 3: affect who God is. And it's and this, I mean,

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Speaker 3: this goes into a deeper point of it's it's really

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Speaker 3: dangerous to to see God through our situations instead of

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Speaker 3: seeing our situations through how God's revealed himself in scripture.

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Speaker 3: So if you know, you can take this really small.

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Speaker 2: Stop and say that one more time, because those people

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Speaker 2: need to hear that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just there's a real danger in viewing our or

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Speaker 3: viewing God through our situations instead of viewing our situations

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Speaker 3: through how God has revealed himself in scripture. Because if

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Speaker 3: you take this super small to a smaller scale, if

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Speaker 3: somebody loses their job and they go this is proof

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Speaker 3: that God doesn't care about me. Well, now we're taking

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Speaker 3: our situation and letting that dictate who God is, when really,

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Speaker 3: every time God talks about himself in scripture, that's really

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Speaker 3: a gift to us to help us see our situations rightly. So,

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Speaker 3: if I know Scripture says God is good and that

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Speaker 3: he's in control of everything because he's sovereign, that nothing

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Speaker 3: is outside of his his ordained will, then when I

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Speaker 3: look at situations, whether good or bad, that prevents me

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Speaker 3: from over celebrating them and also becoming becoming overly anxious

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Speaker 3: about them in either in either direction. Because God is

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Speaker 3: Who God is is not determinative based on my situation,

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Speaker 3: right Because I might be having the worst year of

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Speaker 3: my life, the guy down the street from me might

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Speaker 3: be having the best year of his life. We might

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Speaker 3: both be professing Christians, we might both be pastors. Who's

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Speaker 3: whose situation do we then use to base who God is?

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Speaker 3: If we're through the same time, both profession Christians, both

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Speaker 3: might be pastors in solid churches preaching the gospel, but

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Speaker 3: our two experiences are drastically different. Couldn't be more different.

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Speaker 3: Who whose situation are we then supposed to take and

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Speaker 3: go that that's how we're supposed to see God. You

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Speaker 3: just can't do it. That's so good and so so

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Speaker 3: like with the Trump situation, I am thankful the Lord

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Speaker 3: spared his life. But if there was an attempt on

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Speaker 3: Biden's life, I'd be thankful if his life was spared.

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Speaker 3: So this is not a political thing of whose party

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Speaker 3: am I more in support of. It's a I think

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Speaker 3: death is a result of the fall and sin, and

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Speaker 3: so I can't find enjoyment in death. I don't celebrate it.

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Speaker 3: It is a natural consequence of sin. And so when

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Speaker 3: lives are spared in moments like that, I'm thankful the

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Speaker 3: Lord he's spared lives in that I grieve the loss

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Speaker 3: of the life that that was lost on Saturday by

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Speaker 3: the bullet and so and then so there's there's ways

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Speaker 3: to grieve that without celebrating it.

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Speaker 2: That's actually a nice point to the idea that God

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Speaker 2: there I the angel Gabriel uh intervened at the last

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Speaker 2: second and diverted a bullet that then killed another man. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's a very strange theology to think about. Instead, what

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Speaker 2: the Bible says, and what you're saying is stop looking

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Speaker 2: at our situations and then through the through the Bible,

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Speaker 2: but instead the Bible, let that would be the lens.

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Speaker 2: We look at the situation and that and what we

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Speaker 2: see in the Bible is that all of our days

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Speaker 2: are numbered. Before we were even born, we had a

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Speaker 2: certain amount of days. So Trump has a certain amount

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Speaker 2: of days. He has a day that's designated for him

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Speaker 2: according to God's purpose. And so did that that man

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Speaker 2: that stood behind him, that took that bullet. Those were

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Speaker 2: not accidents and whatever. You and I both we have

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Speaker 2: an expiration date. There is a there is a level

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Speaker 2: of comfort knowing that that. It's profound.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I mean I think that's that's something

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Speaker 3: we can learn from Saturday. Yeah, right, yeah, where we

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Speaker 3: can just be reminded of our mortality. And yeah, and

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Speaker 3: like like you said, with the it's a weird theology

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Speaker 3: that Gabriel would one. I don't think that's how angels act.

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Speaker 3: So that's a whole another topic.

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Speaker 4: Gabriel also spoke to Mohammed, so right, yeah, so aparently

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Speaker 4: but to like turn Trump's head but not protect the

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Speaker 4: guy behind him, or why didn't Gabriel act two minutes earlier?

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Speaker 3: So you know, some some critiques of the secret service

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Speaker 3: right now could really be critiques of Gabriel. Really in

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Speaker 3: some sense could be critiques of God.

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Speaker 2: That's true, that the whole Angel staff needs to be evaluated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, why wasn't the guy's tire flattened on the way driving.

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Speaker 2: To the gabler rallies where you're at, bro?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the title for the podcast, but you know so

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Speaker 3: you could you could ask those same questions of Gabriel

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Speaker 3: in that sense or God in that sense.

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Speaker 2: The head angel needs to be fired. Yeah, title podcast.

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Speaker 2: All right, we'll take a break and get to some questions.

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Speaker 2: If you have a question for me, email podcast at

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Speaker 2: grangersmith dot com. Hey, if you want to get a

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Speaker 2: hold of me, go to cameo dot com slash granger Smith.

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Speaker 2: You will find me there and from there I could

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Speaker 2: build you a video message. I get your notes, and

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Speaker 2: what you want me to say, like happy birthday, happy anniversary,

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Speaker 2: a word of encouragement, congratulations, good job on the graduation,

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Speaker 2: or why did you not make graduation? Whatever you want

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Speaker 2: me to say. I'll read those notes and I pull

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Speaker 2: out my phone and I record a video message and

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Speaker 2: I say whatever you need me to say to whoever

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Speaker 2: you need me to say it too, and I send

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Speaker 2: it right back to you. It's super simple. It's a

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Speaker 2: great gift for the person that you don't know what

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Speaker 2: to buy for. Again, go to Cameo came eo dot

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Speaker 2: com slash granger Smith. Okay, we're going to get into

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Speaker 2: some emails now once again. The email addresses podcast at

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Speaker 2: grangersmith dot com, and Julia is the first one. She says. How,

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Speaker 2: my name is Julia. I'm twenty years old from a

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Speaker 2: small town in northern Mexico. I've been blessed by your podcast.

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Speaker 2: In fact, they are part of my conversion story. So

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Speaker 2: I'd like to start off by thanking you for your

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Speaker 2: time and effort putting them out, and as as a

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Speaker 2: symbol of my belief in Jesus, I desire to get baptized. However,

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Speaker 2: my Midnight Church practices the effusion method. When I told

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Speaker 2: them that I would like to get baptized by immersion,

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Speaker 2: they told me that they would take it into consideration,

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Speaker 2: But they are talking about it more or less, talking

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Speaker 2: about more or less a year until that might even

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Speaker 2: be possible. What is your opinion on various methods? Since

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Speaker 2: baptism is an immediate sign of obedience to God, should

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Speaker 2: I go ahead and get baptized now or wait, I

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Speaker 2: want to do it glorifies God most and be a

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Speaker 2: blessing to others, but I'm not sure what that looks

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Speaker 2: like for me. What are your thoughts or your advice? Hey,

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Speaker 2: thank you so much. That's Julia. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 2: you're listening and thinking through these things before I before

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Speaker 2: we get started at all. You got the right guy

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Speaker 2: with Marshall here. I'm going to give you an email

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Speaker 2: Brooks Marv B r O O K E S m

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Speaker 2: A r V at gmail dot com. He is our

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Speaker 2: Minnonite brother and he would love to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about maybe deeper into the Mennonite faith. And I trust

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Speaker 2: what Marv says, So I got that for you. Encouraged

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Speaker 2: by Julia here, it's encouraging that she's she's thinking through

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Speaker 2: these things and she seems to have a good heart

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Speaker 2: posture about desiring to do what glorifies God most and

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Speaker 2: a desire to also be obedient to the authority in

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Speaker 2: her church leadership. So she has I just Julia, I

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Speaker 2: see so many emails that I've seen so many emails

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Speaker 2: for eight years, and usually you see something like this

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Speaker 2: where they say I'm leaving my church, or I'm going

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Speaker 2: to do it my Church's way, not the Bible's way,

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Speaker 2: or there's it's just some extreme and it it always

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Speaker 2: ends up feeling a little a little self centered. So

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Speaker 2: if if if Julia came to a MAIS and so, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm visiting, I'm on vacation, i have some cousins here

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Speaker 2: in Georgetown, Texas, but I'm going back on Monday to

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Speaker 2: northern Mexico. What would you what would you want to

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Speaker 2: equip her with as she goes back to Mexico. Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Uh so we practice at full immersion at a mais.

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Speaker 3: Seems to be what we see in scripture pretty consistently.

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Speaker 3: That being said, I have friends Marv, yeah, Min and

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Speaker 3: my brother. I have friends in the Presbyterian Church where

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Speaker 3: they don't practice full immersion at least in all of

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Speaker 3: them in the way that they do baptisms. And while

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Speaker 3: I would encourage them to reconsider that, I can't say

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Speaker 3: that person is not a Christian because they didn't do it. So,

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Speaker 3: first of all, you gotta we gotta recognize there's no

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Speaker 3: saving power or aspect to baptism itself. It is an

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Speaker 3: act a person does to profess faith in Jesus or

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Speaker 3: not too, but a nact somebody does to visually represent

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Speaker 3: what's happened spiritually to them.

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Speaker 2: And sounds like Julia understand.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to clarify that. And so,

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Speaker 3: especially when we see the explanation of baptism and scripture

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Speaker 3: being buried like Christ risen with Christ, there's a symbol

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Speaker 3: aspect to it. Mostly when we say full immersion, you're

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Speaker 3: getting dunked in water coming out, So there's part of

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Speaker 3: the symbolism there. But because there is no saving aspect

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Speaker 3: to baptism itself, I can't tell somebody they're not a

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Speaker 3: Christian because the baptism didn't happen specifically the way it

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Speaker 3: was supposed to. And so what I would want to

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Speaker 3: ask her is one, if it is her conviction that

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Speaker 3: it's by immersion, which is what I would encourage, are

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Speaker 3: there any solid churches around her that practice that that

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Speaker 3: she can connect to there, Because one thing we tell

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Speaker 3: people at our church visiting our church is if you

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Speaker 3: disagree with what we teach, then let us help you

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Speaker 3: find a gospel preaching church that agrees with this secondary issue, which.

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Speaker 2: Is what it is everyone.

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Speaker 3: It's a second secondary issue. Let us help you find

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Speaker 3: a church in our area that preaches the gospel that

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Speaker 3: holds the same convictions on the secondary issue. You do

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Speaker 3: because you don't want to cause contention in the church.

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Speaker 3: And so that's one thing she needs to wressful with.

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Speaker 3: Is she fully convinced and convicted that this is the

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Speaker 3: right mode of getting baptized. But one thing we say

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Speaker 3: in our membership class when we talk about baptism is

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Speaker 3: that the most important things related to baptism are was

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Speaker 3: the gospel? Is it in a gospel preaching context? So

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Speaker 3: was the gospel preached? And then was it done after conversion?

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Speaker 3: So for us, a true baptism is in the gospel

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Speaker 3: preaching context after conversion has taken place. So those things

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Speaker 3: seem to fit her situation. But as far as what

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Speaker 3: I should tell her to do for her church leadership

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Speaker 3: is if you're at a church, you submit to the

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Speaker 3: current leadership there. I can disagree with the church leadership

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Speaker 3: on secondary issues. As a pastor of a different church

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Speaker 3: and different denomination. Doesn't mean that they're heretical, does not

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Speaker 3: mean that they don't believe Jesus. It just means we

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Speaker 3: disagree on secondary issues. But if it's a conviction of

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Speaker 3: hers that she needs to be immersed, then she needs

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Speaker 3: to get plugged into a church and connected with the

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Speaker 3: church where she can affirm what they believe in what

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Speaker 3: they practice.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk quickly about the first tier issues. This comes

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Speaker 2: up nearly every podcast in some way a second or

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Speaker 2: third tier issue. Baptism is second. So what does that

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Speaker 2: mean to someone? Because a lot of people get really

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Speaker 2: tied up in that, and so we should probably continue

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Speaker 2: to establish what are the issues that if that's not taught,

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Speaker 2: that's not considered Christianity at all. And we would usually

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Speaker 2: start with the trinity saying God being one being, existing

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Speaker 2: as three persons, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, same in purpose,

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Speaker 2: different in role, which is why the most common argument

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Speaker 2: I see is Jesus praying to the Father in the garden.

433
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: He is submitting to the Father in his role as

434
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: the son. So any anyway, the Trinity, that whole concept

435
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: being revealed throughout the canon would be a first here issue.

436
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: You disagree with that, you're gonna have to leave the church.

437
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: And it's not it's not christian The divinity, divinity, and

438
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: humanity of Jesus has to be established if a church

439
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: believes any less than Jesus's manhood or his divinity, either

440
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: one hundred percent man one hundred percent God. It's not

441
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: Christian to think any other way, not because we've established

442
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: it that way, but because that's what the Bible says,

443
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: and that's what the Bible teaches. Third, we would say

444
00:29:53,320 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: the inerity of the Bible, the scriptures divinely inspired, and

445
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 2: we believe them to be correct as they have revealed

446
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 2: themselves once again, not because we're establishing them to be correct,

447
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 2: because they themselves testify to themselves that the Bible is

448
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: completely inerit. What I'm missing? What's the fourth one? We

449
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: have trinity, we have we have divinity, Community of Christ,

450
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: we have the ineranity of scripture, and we have.

451
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: I mean I would if I was categorizing, I put salvation.

452
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's the fourth one. Salvation. You're saved

453
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 2: by grace through faith in Jesus alone.

454
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 3: Which is which. So baptism can bleed into a primary

455
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: issue if somebody is arguing that baptism is part of

456
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: what saves you.

457
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: Correct.

458
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 3: So if there is some salvafic act to baptism that

459
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: could make it a prior primary issue, that's because it's

460
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: bleeding into what we're saying is the only means of

461
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 3: salvation that is through faith and repentance in Jesus Christ alone.

462
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 3: But baptism itself is in the way that it's practice,

463
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: whether it's by you know, pouring, sprinkling, full immersion, that

464
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 3: that would be a secondary issue.

465
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: Yep. So those four. Let's remember those four, Julia, I

466
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: think you're fully equipped. Email Marv. I think what Marshall

467
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: told you is great, and let's always remember that the

468
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 2: four top tier issues. If we're not breaking one of

469
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: those four, then then let's think through this with church

470
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: leadership and other believers around you. If it breaks one

471
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: of those four, then we're gonna say you have to

472
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: leave the church immediately. And it's just not it's not

473
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: even Christian, all right. Anonymous says, Hey Granger, a little background.

474
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: I'm thirty two, my wife is thirty one. We have

475
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 2: a beautiful daughter that is two, and a son due

476
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: in October. My wife wants to put her house on

477
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: the market this week and move to her family's property.

478
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 2: She says this is temporary. I'm extremely hesitant about moving

479
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: near family in general. I've lived near my family before

480
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 2: and want to move away completely, to have something that

481
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: is ours. I'm just wanting wondering what your thoughts are

482
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: on living within eyeshot of family in general. Thanks Anonymous,

483
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: so much information I don't know about this question. Is

484
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 2: this a financial move? What's the purpose of this? She

485
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: wants to put the house on the market and move

486
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 2: onto her family's property. Are we moving in because it's

487
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 2: a cult, because money's a little tight. Look, because I

488
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: don't know so much, I'm gonna have to say, Anonymous,

489
00:32:52,120 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: I'm assuming you're the husband establishing ltablishing some concrete guidelines.

490
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: I don't want to say rules, but you're gonna have

491
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: to say, look, according to the knowledge that you don't

492
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 2: that I don't know, but you do. You're gonna have

493
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 2: to say, we're looking at this amount of dollars saved,

494
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 2: We're looking at this property that we're looking forward to,

495
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: or this neighborhood that we were trying to get into.

496
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: Once we established this amount of money that we could

497
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: put aside so we could have this monthly payment, and

498
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: then this is going to happen in October of twenty

499
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: twenty five at the latest, We're gonna have to move out.

500
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: If you feel this convicted about living close to your

501
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: family to her family, you're gonna have to do that otherwise.

502
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 2: Otherwise it sounds a little strange that your wife is

503
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 2: deciding where you guys are going to live, and she's

504
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: the one saying that this is going to be temporary,

505
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: and it sounds through this email that you are just

506
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: kind of following her lead. Would sound like it's going

507
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: it's going to be a problem eventually, and that's why

508
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 2: you're emailing me.

509
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, not much to add other than really just in general,

510
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 3: my counsel is don't make big decisions based on preferences.

511
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 3: So if she if she's made if she's presenting a

512
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: case where this because of facts, so like financially, this

513
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 3: actually helps the family, and you just would prefer not

514
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 3: to live close to family, don't make a big decision

515
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 3: not to do it just because your preference would be different. Great,

516
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 3: So don't make big decisions based on preferences. Look at facts.

517
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 2: Hey, you're very blessed if you if you actually have

518
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: the opportunity to live on your on this family's property.

519
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: Because it's a money issue, that's great. Take it. Just

520
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 2: put a deadline on it.

521
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 3: And the other thing I was gonna say is when

522
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 3: people tell me they're gonna do something temporary, I always

523
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 3: tell them, okay, well, temporary means you you'll have some

524
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: sort of steps in place where you say, once these

525
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 3: things have been hit, that's when the temporary's over.

526
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: Good.

527
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 3: Don't claim temporary on something. If it's kind of an

528
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 3: indefinite thing, that's great. Put markers there of when these

529
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 3: things are hit. That's when we know temporaries over.

530
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: This is great, Candy says hi, mister Smith. I want

531
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: to say how grateful I am for your podcast. It's

532
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 2: affected my daily life and my faith. My name is

533
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 2: Candy from Arizona. I've recently started listening to your podcast

534
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 2: after my boyfriend introduced me to it, and I have

535
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: nearly listened to it every day now. In hopes that

536
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,760
Speaker 2: you read this, I ask for your wisdom regarding my situation.

537
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: One week ago, I felt my relationship was in a

538
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 2: healthy place until I discovered my boyfriend of two years

539
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: has been addicted to porn. This tore me to pieces

540
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 2: and I was set on leaving. However, I decided to

541
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: choose forgiveness for our love. I've decided to choose forgiveness

542
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 2: and love over letting evil win? She says that was

543
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: not easy. Once I did, we both decided to be

544
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: saved by Jesus and work towards recovery while strengthening our faith.

545
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 2: It has been an emotional roller coaster, and I question

546
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: a lot in this new relationship and what is even

547
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: right anymore? My question is what advice do you have

548
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: for us as a couple? Also? Should I be more

549
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: cautious with our renewed relationship? Thank you, and have a

550
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 2: blessed day? Was it him? Was it the same boyfriend

551
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: that introduced her to the podcast?

552
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: That's what it sounded late.

553
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: Man, I'm glad you still listen to the podcast. It

554
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: seems like you would just take all of his advice

555
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 2: and say, I'm not doing that anymore. So I'm grateful

556
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 2: that you're still listening through this. She say, Oh, oh,

557
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: she is. I'm assuming pretty young, like I'm assuming low twenties.

558
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: I don't think it says say that interesting questions here?

559
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: You know what your question sounds like you are you're

560
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 2: having questions about this. I don't think you would have

561
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 2: emailed me. Should I be more cautious? If you aren't

562
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: already something stirring within you? And you're feeling, you're feeling

563
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 2: some kind of some kind of entanglement right emotionally. Let

564
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 2: me repeat your own words to yourself here. You say,

565
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: once I did as a forgiving You said, once I did.

566
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: We both decided to be saved by Jesus and work

567
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 2: towards recovery while strengthening our faith. It has been an

568
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 2: emotional roller coaster, and I question a lot in this

569
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 2: new relationship and what is right anymore? I say, why?

570
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 2: Why has it been emotional? Why do you question things?

571
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: That's telling me things are weird? Yeah, and pretty superficial.

572
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: We've said here a whole bunch in fact that Marshall

573
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: actually preached about forgiveness recently, and sometimes so many times,

574
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 2: so many times on these emails, I see people confusing

575
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 2: forgiveness with trusting. You chose to forgive, you say, to

576
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 2: let love win over evil, you say, And it sounds

577
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: like you're saying, I'm choosing to trust him in a

578
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: renewed relationship. That's a big difference between forgiving right. Once again,

579
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: we're dealing with with so so many things we don't

580
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: we don't know, but it's it sounds like you're in

581
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: a place where you're this is not you're not ready

582
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: to fully renew this relationship. You're of course, you're in

583
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: a place where you can forgive. That's not in question here.

584
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 2: You know me, I would love to zoom in on

585
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: what this means that you decided to be saved by

586
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: Jesus together. What do you say, Marshall about two people

587
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: that decide together that they will be saved by Jesus?

588
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: What does that mean?

589
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: Usually I have a lot of questions, but I'm not

590
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 3: gonna say it's impossible that two people can get saved

591
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 3: at the exact same time. Because God can do anything

592
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: he wants. I would say that is extremely, extremely unlikely

593
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: and rare if it happens. But hear me say it

594
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 3: is possible. The Lord could do it. But I have

595
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: follow up questions because even the wording of it, we

596
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 3: decided that we we were going to be saved by Jesus.

597
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: That's not really the language I see the Bible using

598
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 3: when it talks about salvation. It's not really the language

599
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 3: I would encourage Christians to use when they talk about

600
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: getting saved, because it kind of makes it sound like

601
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 3: Jesus was just sitting there and kind of like, hey,

602
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 3: you can get saved to any point you want, and

603
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 3: that's just not how scripture really presents. It's the reason

604
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 3: I say it's it's it would be extremely rare for

605
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 3: two people in the exact same moment to get saved

606
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 3: is because the Lord works in our hearts and changes

607
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 3: our hearts to accept the salvation that's been brought through Jesus.

608
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: Which is why I said it's possible the Lord could

609
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: do that in two hearts at the exact same moment,

610
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 3: at the exact same time. But it seems like what's

611
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: been being said here was contingent on a response to

612
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: an exposure of some sin that happened. So I mean

613
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: follow up questions I have to this. Okay, well, if

614
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,919
Speaker 3: you're both professing Christians, now are you in a church

615
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: that's going to help you determine if one of you

616
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 3: or both of you are actually Christian. People will pour

617
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 3: into you two that'll help him by getting plugged in

618
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: with other guys to call him out in the sin.

619
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: Three just follow up questions to this. Was he asking

620
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: for forgiveness and sorry because he got caught with this?

621
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 3: Did he just come to you and admit, like, hey,

622
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: this is something I've been struggling with and I really

623
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 3: value our relationships. I want to get out of this.

624
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 3: I want to stop being addicted to these things and

625
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 3: I need help. Yeah, and then just else, like you're dating,

626
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: so don't act married. You don't have a promise to

627
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 3: this guy like a wife would to her husband, and

628
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 3: he doesn't have a promise to you like a husband

629
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 3: would to his wife. And so if you don't see

630
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 3: this going anywhere in a direction towards marriage, and just

631
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: break it off. And I would say that whether you

632
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 3: guys were having problems or not. But I agree with

633
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: as you were reading it, it sounds like there's deeper issues.

634
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: I agree with the forgiveness doesn't equal trust. So one

635
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 3: of the points I made in the Sermon on Forgiveness

636
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago was that there's a difference

637
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: between forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration. So Christians, this is unpopular

638
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: in culture, but this is what the Bible says multiple times,

639
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 3: almost word for word. Christians are required to forgive. I

640
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: don't know how to get those verses out to everybody,

641
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 3: but if you look it up, Christians are It says

642
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: you must forgive as you've been forgiven. And so there's

643
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 3: not a choice. I mean, I was preaching on the

644
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 3: parable of the unforgiving servant, and the endpoint was, so

645
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: you have to forgive. That was Jesus's point in giving

646
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 3: the parable. But forgiveness, when we equate it to trust,

647
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 3: means well, I'm just supposed to pretend like nothing happened,

648
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: and I'm just automatally supposed to trust you hundred percent.

649
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 3: That's not true. Forgiveness is kind of the doorway into reconciliation,

650
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 3: which means we're going to figure out. So when forgiveness

651
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 3: takes place, and then the person who offended does repenting

652
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 3: asks for forgiveness, so one forgiveness can actually be given

653
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: even if the person doesn't ask for it. But that

654
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: doesn't mean reconciliation happens. Reconciliation only happens when forgiveness and

655
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 3: repentance are in play, and that's you working together to

656
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: figure out how to to just be to people who

657
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 3: are kind to one another and how do you grow

658
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 3: from that. Once reconciliation's taken place, then a process starts

659
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: towards restoration. So this is why with married couples, when

660
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 3: something happens, forgiveness takes place. But reconciliation is a process. Okay,

661
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: how we're gonna actually live together's husband and wife? After

662
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 3: this has been committed, I'm not going to hold it

663
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 3: against you by constantly bringing it up again. So that's

664
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: one thing with forgiveness is we don't keep bringing this

665
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 3: situation up once we've forgiven. But there also are consequences

666
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 3: to sin. So what does life look like as I

667
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: face the consequences to my sin and as we agree

668
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 3: on those and work towards those, that's the reconciliation that's

669
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: taking place, and Lord willing. When reconciliation is going well

670
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: and progressing forward, it then produces a restored relationship. But

671
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: there are some situations. This is more about forgiveness than

672
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 3: her specific question.

673
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 2: No, I think this is. I think it's helpful for

674
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 2: everyone listening.

675
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 3: But there are situations where the sin is so heinous

676
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: that forgiveness can be done by a Christian. Again, because

677
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 3: scripture tells us we are required to forgive, and that's

678
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 3: more than just saying okay, I forgive you, So there's

679
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: much more to say about that. But that doesn't necessarily

680
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 3: mean we just go hang out with the person the

681
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 3: sin was so heinous it means restoration is never going

682
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 3: to be possible.

683
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 2: And I think you also said in the sermon that

684
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 2: you could be in their reconciliation process and still restoration. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

685
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 3: That's a lot for this I dig in deeper.

686
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: But I think that a lot of that's also helpful

687
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: for other people listening that are not necessarily in this

688
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: same position. But I think that also works for Candy

689
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 2: in this situation. I think you're not married, don't act

690
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: like you are. Is great. Saying language like letting our

691
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 2: love win over evil is a little strange in a

692
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: dating relationship. And the only way I'm buying that we

693
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: were both saved by Jesus is you would have to

694
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: say something like we went to we went to church

695
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: and the message cut us so deeply, like we would

696
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: see in the Book of Acts when multiple people would

697
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 2: be saved at the same time. It was from hearing

698
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 2: a gospel message. And so it's not you're speaking in

699
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 2: terms of making a decision like you guys decided to

700
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: get married, Like we both decided to get married and

701
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: to work towards recovery. That's instead you used saved by Jesus. Instead,

702
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: we decided to be to get mad maried, and so

703
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 2: I think I think, I hope that's helpful.

704
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: And to clarify my point, I do think multiple people

705
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 3: can get saved under the same gospel preaching. Like yeah,

706
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: I just meant from the situation she is describing, for

707
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 3: two people to say, yeah, we're just driving in the

708
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: truck together and we both just decided then and there.

709
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 2: We talked it out and we decided, hey, let's put

710
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: our faith in Jesus.

711
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 3: That's the more extremely rare situation I'm talking about.

712
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think I think extremely rare is actually

713
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: being generous and that okay, So Candy, I hope that helps.

714
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: This is going to be the last email of the

715
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: of the podcast, and I think I don't. I don't

716
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 2: trust this guy, and I don't think you do either,

717
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 2: and I think that's why you email me. And I

718
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 2: think if you get anything out of this, if you

719
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: we said a lot, if you get anything out of this,

720
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 2: I think that the most important thing through it is

721
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: is joining a local church where you could, like Marshall said,

722
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: be surrounded by people that affirm your faith for one,

723
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: this profession of Jesus that you've made, and they could

724
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 2: help hold him accountable and you accountable at the same time,

725
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 2: and help you walk through what does forgiveness mean? What

726
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: does letting love win? What does that mean? In a

727
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: biblical sense? And in a local church, will do all

728
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: of those things for you and help you walk in

729
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 2: your singleness towards Lord, willing your marriage partner that you'll

730
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: have one day. Yeah, yeah, thank you guys, see you

731
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: next Monday. Thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.

732
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 2: I appreciate all of you guys. You could help me

733
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: out by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube,

734
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 2: subscribe to this channel, hit that little like button and

735
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 2: notification spell so that you never miss anytime I upload

736
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 2: a video. Yii