1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:15,045 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Yeah, that's the playground the park over there. Yeah, 2 00:00:16,365 --> 00:00:20,725 Speaker 1: recognize the playground of Salomont Drive. Alright, you're all right, 3 00:00:20,805 --> 00:00:23,325 Speaker 1: let's see so I canna pull up the picture in 4 00:00:23,405 --> 00:00:27,245 Speaker 1: the day mail. I'm at Chalomont Park and West Little 5 00:00:27,325 --> 00:00:31,725 Speaker 1: Rock in the parking lot. This is a tiny private park. 6 00:00:32,805 --> 00:00:34,965 Speaker 1: It's on a cul de sac and meant for the 7 00:00:35,005 --> 00:00:38,365 Speaker 1: exclusive use of the residents of the Channel Valley neighborhood 8 00:00:38,365 --> 00:00:41,645 Speaker 1: and their guests. In the summer, it would be full 9 00:00:41,685 --> 00:00:44,285 Speaker 1: of kids swimming in the pool or playing on the playground. 10 00:00:44,725 --> 00:00:48,485 Speaker 1: But it's late fall now the pool is closed and 11 00:00:48,525 --> 00:00:53,205 Speaker 1: the playground is deserted. That's the entrance on the other side. 12 00:00:54,885 --> 00:00:56,445 Speaker 1: It was parked near here. I'm gonna try to see 13 00:00:56,485 --> 00:00:58,325 Speaker 1: if I can find a picture of the car. We 14 00:00:58,405 --> 00:01:00,085 Speaker 1: know what kind of car she had. It was a 15 00:01:00,165 --> 00:01:06,885 Speaker 1: Volklier facade, pretty small car. Yeah. So the other voice 16 00:01:06,885 --> 00:01:11,445 Speaker 1: you're hearing is Mike. He's another private investigator. A few 17 00:01:11,445 --> 00:01:14,405 Speaker 1: months ago, Mike and I worked on a project together 18 00:01:14,805 --> 00:01:18,845 Speaker 1: where we helped local law enforcement apprehend felons. Mike is 19 00:01:18,885 --> 00:01:23,565 Speaker 1: former military. He's an expert in data technology. He actually 20 00:01:23,605 --> 00:01:27,005 Speaker 1: trains FBI agents on how to use data to solve cases. 21 00:01:27,565 --> 00:01:29,805 Speaker 1: I brought Mike down to Arkansas with me to help 22 00:01:29,845 --> 00:01:35,005 Speaker 1: out on the case, especially on two very important aspects, 23 00:01:35,085 --> 00:01:39,165 Speaker 1: social media and cellular data. These are two things that 24 00:01:39,205 --> 00:01:43,485 Speaker 1: may have been initially mishandled by police. Mike is also 25 00:01:43,805 --> 00:01:46,605 Speaker 1: around six foot one and weighs about two hundred and 26 00:01:46,645 --> 00:01:50,325 Speaker 1: twenty pounds of solid muscle. And since everyone keeps warning 27 00:01:50,325 --> 00:01:53,085 Speaker 1: me that we may have to track down some dangerous 28 00:01:53,125 --> 00:01:56,445 Speaker 1: people for this case, I decided it wouldn't be a 29 00:01:56,445 --> 00:02:00,845 Speaker 1: bad idea to have a little backup. Also, just a reminder, 30 00:02:01,365 --> 00:02:05,685 Speaker 1: Ebby's stepdad is Michael, so we'll always refer to him 31 00:02:05,685 --> 00:02:10,125 Speaker 1: as Michael and Mike as Mike. Laury Elsa says, there 32 00:02:10,165 --> 00:02:13,805 Speaker 1: weren't any cameras down here even now, which doesn't look 33 00:02:13,845 --> 00:02:19,445 Speaker 1: like there are no there's there's nothing out here. There's 34 00:02:19,445 --> 00:02:23,525 Speaker 1: a few a few light poles. Who was dark as hell, 35 00:02:23,605 --> 00:02:26,405 Speaker 1: like you couldn't see anything. There's no lighting down there 36 00:02:26,445 --> 00:02:30,485 Speaker 1: at all. Actually, this spot looks almost exactly like it 37 00:02:30,525 --> 00:02:34,365 Speaker 1: did back in twenty fifteen when neighbors called in an 38 00:02:34,365 --> 00:02:38,885 Speaker 1: abandoned car and that car turned out to be Ebby Stepics. Yeah, 39 00:02:38,965 --> 00:02:42,165 Speaker 1: there's beers and like somebody was like, somebody was having 40 00:02:42,205 --> 00:02:45,965 Speaker 1: some beers come out here and a party A little 41 00:02:45,965 --> 00:02:50,725 Speaker 1: bit looks like which is normal. Yeah, if I was 42 00:02:50,765 --> 00:02:53,925 Speaker 1: in high school, this would beg Yeah. It's a big spot. Yeah, 43 00:02:54,765 --> 00:02:57,005 Speaker 1: it's it's a safe place. Yeah. I mean if you're 44 00:02:57,005 --> 00:02:58,925 Speaker 1: having a hook up in your car or like, do 45 00:02:59,045 --> 00:03:02,285 Speaker 1: whatever you're gonna do. I mean, it's even you know, 46 00:03:02,405 --> 00:03:05,085 Speaker 1: there's benches down there, but if you're parked up here, 47 00:03:05,125 --> 00:03:09,485 Speaker 1: you came the embankment there, so there's lots of screening 48 00:03:09,525 --> 00:03:16,565 Speaker 1: and little visibility areas. We're going back to October thirtieth, 49 00:03:16,725 --> 00:03:21,245 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. Ebbi Steppac has been missing for five days. 50 00:03:21,965 --> 00:03:26,285 Speaker 1: Her family, including her mom Laurie, her stepdad Michael, and 51 00:03:26,445 --> 00:03:30,285 Speaker 1: her brother Trevor, had been driving all over town trying 52 00:03:30,325 --> 00:03:35,045 Speaker 1: to find her. Then they get a call Ebby's car 53 00:03:35,085 --> 00:03:39,445 Speaker 1: has been found. Michael and Trevor rush over to Schalmont Park. 54 00:03:40,765 --> 00:03:45,405 Speaker 1: It's already getting dark. They look everywhere through neighborhoods in 55 00:03:45,445 --> 00:03:48,405 Speaker 1: the wooded area behind the park, but they see no 56 00:03:48,485 --> 00:03:52,405 Speaker 1: sign of Ebby. Ebby's car is back into a parking 57 00:03:52,445 --> 00:03:56,245 Speaker 1: space in the rear of the parking lot. Behind the car, 58 00:03:56,605 --> 00:03:59,165 Speaker 1: they see a manhole cover that leads down to a 59 00:03:59,205 --> 00:04:04,005 Speaker 1: storm drain. They pull off the cover and look down 60 00:04:04,085 --> 00:04:07,645 Speaker 1: into the drain, but there's nothing there except a pile 61 00:04:07,685 --> 00:04:11,245 Speaker 1: of leaves. As Ebby's family and the police look for 62 00:04:11,285 --> 00:04:15,445 Speaker 1: her everywhere, all over the state and eventually all around 63 00:04:15,445 --> 00:04:18,605 Speaker 1: the world, they don't know that she was right here, 64 00:04:19,365 --> 00:04:23,205 Speaker 1: just a few feet from her car all along. I'm 65 00:04:23,285 --> 00:04:59,045 Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gothen. In the days following 66 00:04:59,085 --> 00:05:03,325 Speaker 1: Ebbie's disappearance, the police take Ebbie's car in for processing, 67 00:05:03,885 --> 00:05:08,685 Speaker 1: then they start their investi Now, Normally, early in a 68 00:05:08,725 --> 00:05:12,965 Speaker 1: police investigation, detectives will look through the missing person's phone 69 00:05:13,005 --> 00:05:16,965 Speaker 1: records and their social media, especially with a teenager like 70 00:05:17,045 --> 00:05:20,565 Speaker 1: Ebby who uses social media and texting as the main 71 00:05:20,645 --> 00:05:25,445 Speaker 1: ways to communicate with her friends. Ebbie's family has already 72 00:05:25,485 --> 00:05:30,685 Speaker 1: gotten started. They scour all of her accounts, including her Facebook, 73 00:05:30,805 --> 00:05:34,525 Speaker 1: her Instagram, and her Snapchat for any clues as to 74 00:05:34,565 --> 00:05:38,485 Speaker 1: where she could be. JC White is the Little Rock 75 00:05:38,525 --> 00:05:43,605 Speaker 1: Police Department sergeant originally assigned to the investigation. Roy Williams 76 00:05:43,685 --> 00:05:47,485 Speaker 1: is the detective and Laurie starts budding heads with JC 77 00:05:48,125 --> 00:05:52,325 Speaker 1: and the rest of the department very early on because 78 00:05:52,405 --> 00:05:55,725 Speaker 1: she says, they don't seem to be doing anything with 79 00:05:55,805 --> 00:05:58,605 Speaker 1: Ebby's social media accounts. They didn't know what they were doing. 80 00:05:58,885 --> 00:06:01,205 Speaker 1: They didn't know how to get into any of her 81 00:06:01,245 --> 00:06:07,045 Speaker 1: social media, any of her Facebook, Instagram. Did they try 82 00:06:07,085 --> 00:06:11,845 Speaker 1: to snapchat? They didn't know how to do any of it. Nothing. 83 00:06:13,525 --> 00:06:17,365 Speaker 1: So Laurie takes matters into her own hands. She hires 84 00:06:17,365 --> 00:06:20,605 Speaker 1: an it guy named Matthew to get into Ebbie's accounts. 85 00:06:21,445 --> 00:06:24,965 Speaker 1: The police are not happy about that, so they give 86 00:06:25,045 --> 00:06:29,165 Speaker 1: Lauria warning. They tell her to make sure that Matthew 87 00:06:29,245 --> 00:06:34,245 Speaker 1: doesn't change anything in Ebby's accounts, but Laurie is concerned 88 00:06:34,245 --> 00:06:37,445 Speaker 1: for another reason. When she and Matthew get into Ebby's 89 00:06:37,445 --> 00:06:41,645 Speaker 1: social media, it looks like someone else has already been 90 00:06:41,685 --> 00:06:48,445 Speaker 1: looking through her accounts. Meanwhile, the police still haven't gotten 91 00:06:48,485 --> 00:06:54,365 Speaker 1: into Ebbie's Facebook or her Instagram. Now, the process for 92 00:06:54,485 --> 00:06:57,925 Speaker 1: law enforcement to get information from companies like Facebook is 93 00:06:58,085 --> 00:07:02,965 Speaker 1: actually pretty straightforward. Facebook requires that a subpoena, a court order, 94 00:07:03,085 --> 00:07:06,525 Speaker 1: or a search warrant be filed, but police can ask 95 00:07:06,565 --> 00:07:09,885 Speaker 1: for the information they want online without ever having to 96 00:07:09,925 --> 00:07:14,805 Speaker 1: serve papers in person. Police can also ask these companies 97 00:07:14,885 --> 00:07:18,765 Speaker 1: to release other types of information. This information can include 98 00:07:18,765 --> 00:07:25,165 Speaker 1: a person's messages, photos, videos, timeline posts, and location. These 99 00:07:25,205 --> 00:07:28,165 Speaker 1: requests gets sent to a special unit in Facebook called 100 00:07:28,165 --> 00:07:31,605 Speaker 1: the Law Enforcement Response Team. Their sole job is to 101 00:07:31,645 --> 00:07:35,845 Speaker 1: take request for this kind of data. Facebook gets thousands 102 00:07:35,885 --> 00:07:39,165 Speaker 1: of these requests every year. All this really is to 103 00:07:39,205 --> 00:07:42,885 Speaker 1: say that, in this day and age, requesting information from 104 00:07:42,885 --> 00:07:45,965 Speaker 1: a social media company is seen as a very routine 105 00:07:46,005 --> 00:07:50,485 Speaker 1: part of any investigation. According to Laurie, the Little Rock 106 00:07:50,565 --> 00:07:53,925 Speaker 1: Police department did not seem to be familiar with these procedures. 107 00:07:54,685 --> 00:07:57,605 Speaker 1: She also claims the police didn't seem to have a 108 00:07:57,645 --> 00:08:03,645 Speaker 1: sense of urgency. I literally copied and emailed them the 109 00:08:03,725 --> 00:08:09,085 Speaker 1: instructions that are on Facebook that when you sign up 110 00:08:09,085 --> 00:08:13,085 Speaker 1: for Facebook and Instagram that tell you how to contact 111 00:08:13,285 --> 00:08:16,685 Speaker 1: law enforcement, to tell you how to contact them. I 112 00:08:17,365 --> 00:08:21,445 Speaker 1: copied that and sent that to them. That's how little 113 00:08:21,565 --> 00:08:25,085 Speaker 1: they knew. Mike and I talked about how police departments 114 00:08:25,125 --> 00:08:28,725 Speaker 1: investigate social media, So let's talk about the way it's 115 00:08:28,725 --> 00:08:32,685 Speaker 1: supposed to work. Something happens to a victim in this case, 116 00:08:32,765 --> 00:08:38,605 Speaker 1: Ebb Ebby goes missing. Ebby's parents do not have her 117 00:08:39,085 --> 00:08:43,285 Speaker 1: social media log in. The law enforcement agency in charge 118 00:08:43,285 --> 00:08:46,285 Speaker 1: of the case. All they have to do is get 119 00:08:46,325 --> 00:08:53,085 Speaker 1: a warrant to subpoena the social media provider ie, Facebook, Instagram, whoever, 120 00:08:53,645 --> 00:08:57,565 Speaker 1: and they'll provide access to that information. And when someone 121 00:08:57,685 --> 00:09:00,765 Speaker 1: goes missing, if you're looking through their social media, what 122 00:09:00,805 --> 00:09:02,925 Speaker 1: are the kinds of things that you should be looking for. 123 00:09:03,645 --> 00:09:08,805 Speaker 1: I would be looking for who they talked to, where 124 00:09:08,845 --> 00:09:12,845 Speaker 1: they were when they were posting. A lot of these devices, 125 00:09:12,925 --> 00:09:16,845 Speaker 1: when you make a post, there's duolocational data inside of 126 00:09:16,885 --> 00:09:22,005 Speaker 1: the picture, so you can get that from the platform 127 00:09:22,285 --> 00:09:28,445 Speaker 1: Instagram or Facebook as an example, when you request that data. 128 00:09:29,085 --> 00:09:32,085 Speaker 1: If the device has its location services on, it will 129 00:09:32,085 --> 00:09:36,245 Speaker 1: be sharing its location with the platform, sometimes whether they're 130 00:09:36,245 --> 00:09:39,565 Speaker 1: posting or not. So if they're sharing their location with 131 00:09:39,645 --> 00:09:43,725 Speaker 1: the platform, there is a potential or a possibility, you 132 00:09:43,765 --> 00:09:46,725 Speaker 1: could receive their last known location, at least as far 133 00:09:46,725 --> 00:09:51,045 Speaker 1: as the platform is concerned. In twenty fifteen and into 134 00:09:51,045 --> 00:09:56,165 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, tensions are growing between Ebbie's family and the police. 135 00:09:57,485 --> 00:10:00,045 Speaker 1: A member of Laurie's church, who used to work with 136 00:10:00,045 --> 00:10:03,805 Speaker 1: the FBI offers to help. Laurie tries to get her 137 00:10:03,805 --> 00:10:08,245 Speaker 1: friend involved, but the police department refused. He helped us 138 00:10:08,285 --> 00:10:12,125 Speaker 1: as much as he could. He reached out to LRPD. 139 00:10:12,485 --> 00:10:16,445 Speaker 1: They said, no, we don't want your help. He offered 140 00:10:17,365 --> 00:10:19,405 Speaker 1: and offered, and they said, no, we do not want 141 00:10:19,445 --> 00:10:23,965 Speaker 1: your help. Through her connections as a hairdresser, Laurie knows 142 00:10:23,965 --> 00:10:27,885 Speaker 1: a victim's advocate that works for the prosecuting attorney Larry Juggley. 143 00:10:28,925 --> 00:10:32,845 Speaker 1: This woman, Susie, is appalled by the police's treatment of Laurie. 144 00:10:33,245 --> 00:10:36,485 Speaker 1: So Susie starts going with Laurie to her meetings with police. 145 00:10:36,845 --> 00:10:40,925 Speaker 1: She's like, oh my gosh, Laurie, this is awful. So 146 00:10:40,965 --> 00:10:45,525 Speaker 1: she went with me and took notes. So now I 147 00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:50,405 Speaker 1: have someone with the prosecuting Attorney's office going with me 148 00:10:50,765 --> 00:10:53,965 Speaker 1: to my meetings with little art police department, taking notes, 149 00:10:54,325 --> 00:10:58,405 Speaker 1: so I have somebody by my side. It got so 150 00:10:58,485 --> 00:11:02,925 Speaker 1: bad that on my emails now I was emailing the 151 00:11:03,045 --> 00:11:08,325 Speaker 1: chief of police, the mayor, the sergeant, the detective. I 152 00:11:08,365 --> 00:11:14,365 Speaker 1: was putting everybody on the emails. When finally I was 153 00:11:14,485 --> 00:11:18,085 Speaker 1: kicked out of the meetings because she and Matthew had 154 00:11:18,085 --> 00:11:22,445 Speaker 1: continued to dig into Ebbie's social media. The police department 155 00:11:22,765 --> 00:11:26,565 Speaker 1: actually kicks Laurie out of their meetings. I notified him 156 00:11:26,645 --> 00:11:31,365 Speaker 1: one day and said, Matthew has to change a password 157 00:11:31,725 --> 00:11:34,925 Speaker 1: for a minute. We have to change it so we 158 00:11:34,965 --> 00:11:37,925 Speaker 1: can figure out who is trying to get in. It's 159 00:11:38,045 --> 00:11:40,565 Speaker 1: just gonna be for a minute. When I emailed and 160 00:11:40,645 --> 00:11:45,445 Speaker 1: told him that, they said, we're done. We're done. Noe, 161 00:11:45,485 --> 00:11:49,725 Speaker 1: Matthew is off. Off the k off, You're off. He's off. 162 00:11:49,725 --> 00:11:53,605 Speaker 1: We're done. We will no longer contact you. We will 163 00:11:53,645 --> 00:11:58,005 Speaker 1: not email you, contact you, we won't notify you of anything. 164 00:11:58,445 --> 00:12:02,325 Speaker 1: You cannot come down here, don't show up. We're off. 165 00:12:02,365 --> 00:12:08,485 Speaker 1: You're done. Laurie, with Matthew's help, downloads all of Ebby's 166 00:12:08,525 --> 00:12:12,685 Speaker 1: social media messages. They find lots of messages between Ebby 167 00:12:12,765 --> 00:12:17,685 Speaker 1: and her friends, but everything stops on Sunday, October twenty five, 168 00:12:18,525 --> 00:12:22,965 Speaker 1: the same day that Ebbie stopped answering her phone. While 169 00:12:23,005 --> 00:12:26,205 Speaker 1: Ebby's family tries to find out who she was hanging 170 00:12:26,205 --> 00:12:29,965 Speaker 1: out with and where they were, the police start focusing 171 00:12:30,005 --> 00:12:33,765 Speaker 1: on someone a lot closer to home, her husband. They 172 00:12:33,845 --> 00:12:37,085 Speaker 1: tried to go straight for Michael having something to do 173 00:12:37,165 --> 00:12:41,285 Speaker 1: with it. Angle they were already yet Michael's ready to 174 00:12:41,405 --> 00:12:45,885 Speaker 1: throw him in jail. They were doing everything they could 175 00:12:45,925 --> 00:12:48,645 Speaker 1: to prove some way that he had something to do 176 00:12:48,725 --> 00:12:53,205 Speaker 1: with this. Since Ebbie's case is technically an open and 177 00:12:53,285 --> 00:12:58,125 Speaker 1: active investigation. We have no access to police case files, 178 00:12:58,165 --> 00:13:00,365 Speaker 1: so we have to start at the beginning and take 179 00:13:00,365 --> 00:13:03,285 Speaker 1: a fresh look at the cell phone data. We don't 180 00:13:03,325 --> 00:13:06,285 Speaker 1: have all of it, but Laurie do have some of 181 00:13:06,285 --> 00:13:09,365 Speaker 1: Ebbie's phone records. She's kept them in a file for 182 00:13:09,405 --> 00:13:13,565 Speaker 1: six years. I'm also trying to understand as best we 183 00:13:13,645 --> 00:13:17,005 Speaker 1: can the mistakes that police may have made early on 184 00:13:17,085 --> 00:13:19,405 Speaker 1: with the phone data, so that we can learn from 185 00:13:19,405 --> 00:13:24,205 Speaker 1: them and move on with this investigation. When police access 186 00:13:24,285 --> 00:13:27,525 Speaker 1: cell phone data and an investigation, they're looking for the 187 00:13:27,605 --> 00:13:31,885 Speaker 1: record of calls and the cell phone tower data. So 188 00:13:32,245 --> 00:13:35,205 Speaker 1: there are people in law enforcement who are specially trained 189 00:13:35,245 --> 00:13:39,325 Speaker 1: and extracting this type of information. It's kind of like 190 00:13:39,405 --> 00:13:41,845 Speaker 1: looking at the matrix and seeing pictures in the code. 191 00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:45,645 Speaker 1: It's not just a science, it's an art. Mike and 192 00:13:45,685 --> 00:13:48,885 Speaker 1: I also talked about this. So now that we're talking 193 00:13:48,885 --> 00:13:52,605 Speaker 1: about cell phone data, where does the data actually come from. 194 00:13:53,405 --> 00:13:56,045 Speaker 1: The data comes from the network provider. So let's just 195 00:13:56,085 --> 00:14:00,445 Speaker 1: say at and T everything that you do, every place 196 00:14:00,485 --> 00:14:03,765 Speaker 1: your cell phone goes is reporting one percent of the 197 00:14:03,765 --> 00:14:07,125 Speaker 1: time while it's turned on and is attached to the tower. 198 00:14:07,805 --> 00:14:09,845 Speaker 1: As you go from one tower to the next. That's 199 00:14:09,885 --> 00:14:12,485 Speaker 1: also reported to the cell phone company, where whether you're 200 00:14:12,485 --> 00:14:17,205 Speaker 1: actually using your phone or not. What law enforcement should 201 00:14:17,205 --> 00:14:21,005 Speaker 1: do when this happens is they go get a warrant. 202 00:14:21,325 --> 00:14:25,525 Speaker 1: They subpoena AT and T for example, and say, hey, 203 00:14:25,605 --> 00:14:29,765 Speaker 1: can you give me the call detail record of this 204 00:14:29,805 --> 00:14:33,445 Speaker 1: phone number, And in that call detail record will have 205 00:14:33,725 --> 00:14:38,205 Speaker 1: every person that they've talked to, as far as called 206 00:14:39,005 --> 00:14:41,605 Speaker 1: sent a text message to. It will have every tower 207 00:14:41,685 --> 00:14:45,765 Speaker 1: that they've connected to and for how long. So you 208 00:14:45,805 --> 00:14:50,365 Speaker 1: can actually get a geographical representation of dots on a 209 00:14:50,445 --> 00:14:54,845 Speaker 1: map of where they were when they actually made those calls, 210 00:14:55,005 --> 00:14:57,925 Speaker 1: where they were if they were sleeping somewhere at night, 211 00:14:58,605 --> 00:15:01,765 Speaker 1: their direction of travel if they're traveling from north to south, 212 00:15:01,765 --> 00:15:06,485 Speaker 1: east to west, for example. It's very very annular information 213 00:15:06,525 --> 00:15:10,125 Speaker 1: and it's very easy to put together what was going 214 00:15:10,205 --> 00:15:13,285 Speaker 1: on at that time. The secondary thing you do is 215 00:15:13,325 --> 00:15:15,725 Speaker 1: if there are people of interest or people that you 216 00:15:15,805 --> 00:15:19,205 Speaker 1: want to talk to, associates that she may have had, 217 00:15:19,845 --> 00:15:22,845 Speaker 1: you can look at those phone numbers based on whom 218 00:15:22,885 --> 00:15:26,605 Speaker 1: she had contact with and request the call detailed record 219 00:15:26,685 --> 00:15:30,365 Speaker 1: for those and do some correlation to see if those 220 00:15:30,405 --> 00:15:32,725 Speaker 1: people were in the same place at the same time. 221 00:15:33,325 --> 00:15:37,365 Speaker 1: So I guess in a perfect world, law enforcement or 222 00:15:37,365 --> 00:15:41,565 Speaker 1: whoever would put together all this information first and have 223 00:15:41,645 --> 00:15:45,045 Speaker 1: an idea of where everyone was and then go talk 224 00:15:45,085 --> 00:15:49,165 Speaker 1: to those people already knowing that absolutely you would, you know, 225 00:15:49,245 --> 00:15:52,245 Speaker 1: don't don't get me wrong, there's going to be you know, 226 00:15:52,365 --> 00:15:55,245 Speaker 1: detectives and investigators out there trying to do some things 227 00:15:55,885 --> 00:15:59,805 Speaker 1: in real time, right because people are should be trying 228 00:15:59,845 --> 00:16:05,205 Speaker 1: to solve the case as expediently as possible. But there's 229 00:16:05,205 --> 00:16:08,005 Speaker 1: should would be a team or some people who are 230 00:16:08,045 --> 00:16:11,325 Speaker 1: looking at this data from the moment that they receive 231 00:16:11,405 --> 00:16:16,005 Speaker 1: it from the telco provider. Laurie said the police made 232 00:16:16,005 --> 00:16:21,285 Speaker 1: some serious mistakes early in the investigation. First, she says, 233 00:16:21,325 --> 00:16:24,485 Speaker 1: they pinged the wrong cell phone number, which meant that 234 00:16:24,525 --> 00:16:27,405 Speaker 1: when Laurie and Michael go to the GPS coordinates that 235 00:16:27,445 --> 00:16:30,525 Speaker 1: the police gave them, they end up in a random 236 00:16:30,565 --> 00:16:34,725 Speaker 1: field miles away from home. Then, once the correct phone 237 00:16:34,765 --> 00:16:38,645 Speaker 1: number was pinged, police also apparently have some of the 238 00:16:38,725 --> 00:16:41,605 Speaker 1: cell phone time codes wrong, which will be a big 239 00:16:41,645 --> 00:16:46,725 Speaker 1: problem later when they try to establish everyone's ALBI, including Michaels. 240 00:16:47,485 --> 00:16:52,045 Speaker 1: They're tracking his movements to times that were totally incorrect. Jay, 241 00:16:52,125 --> 00:16:55,245 Speaker 1: seeing them started pushing for us to do a lot 242 00:16:55,245 --> 00:16:59,565 Speaker 1: of detector tests. At first they asked us, we said sure. 243 00:17:00,165 --> 00:17:03,645 Speaker 1: Well then after they started pushing for us to do 244 00:17:03,685 --> 00:17:06,285 Speaker 1: a lot of detector tests. When they started treating us 245 00:17:06,325 --> 00:17:10,205 Speaker 1: like that, that's what Michael said. I'm gonna have to 246 00:17:10,605 --> 00:17:14,565 Speaker 1: talk to a lawyer. And I didn't blame him either. 247 00:17:15,765 --> 00:17:19,725 Speaker 1: I did not trust them at all. In the weeks 248 00:17:19,765 --> 00:17:24,885 Speaker 1: after the investigation, on November third, twenty fifteen, a woman 249 00:17:24,965 --> 00:17:27,645 Speaker 1: and her daughter, who was a friend of Ebbie's, are 250 00:17:27,645 --> 00:17:33,685 Speaker 1: walking through Chalmont Park. She calls nine one one, I's 251 00:17:33,725 --> 00:17:37,365 Speaker 1: look as you emergency. I just came out of a 252 00:17:37,405 --> 00:17:41,805 Speaker 1: meeting with Detective Williams in regard to a missing person 253 00:17:41,965 --> 00:17:49,285 Speaker 1: named Ebbie. Uh. Okay. He said that the car was 254 00:17:50,045 --> 00:17:54,605 Speaker 1: located in this park, and I brought my daughter to 255 00:17:54,885 --> 00:17:58,645 Speaker 1: Lee Okay. She had been here with her before. True, 256 00:17:59,805 --> 00:18:03,005 Speaker 1: you know, we came here gonna have her look around. 257 00:18:03,205 --> 00:18:10,125 Speaker 1: And as I passed the sewer, now the composition, could 258 00:18:10,165 --> 00:18:15,205 Speaker 1: you I'll send somebody here to investige. I want to 259 00:18:15,205 --> 00:18:19,165 Speaker 1: see what who we need to get out there, and 260 00:18:19,445 --> 00:18:21,765 Speaker 1: I will call you in just a few minutes and 261 00:18:22,525 --> 00:18:25,005 Speaker 1: we'll go from there. Okay, okay, thank you, all right, 262 00:18:25,125 --> 00:18:29,325 Speaker 1: thank you man. Alrighty. She says that she smells something 263 00:18:29,485 --> 00:18:34,365 Speaker 1: rotting in Shalmont Park, but she says the police brushed 264 00:18:34,365 --> 00:18:44,765 Speaker 1: off her concerns. In this world out here, you go 265 00:18:44,885 --> 00:18:47,965 Speaker 1: into a police department, the worst thing you can do 266 00:18:48,125 --> 00:18:51,605 Speaker 1: is say I'm a private investigator. This is Monty Vickers. 267 00:18:52,565 --> 00:18:55,605 Speaker 1: He's a veteran and a former Little Rock police detective. 268 00:18:56,485 --> 00:19:00,405 Speaker 1: While Monty was on the police force, he investigated hundreds 269 00:19:00,405 --> 00:19:03,885 Speaker 1: of homicides, a lot of which he says, stay with 270 00:19:03,965 --> 00:19:08,925 Speaker 1: him to this day. Just something you you can't forget. 271 00:19:10,165 --> 00:19:12,925 Speaker 1: He's one of those old school former cops who could 272 00:19:12,925 --> 00:19:15,925 Speaker 1: have come straight out of a movie. He really cares 273 00:19:15,965 --> 00:19:19,685 Speaker 1: about his cases and about truth, justice in the American way. 274 00:19:20,485 --> 00:19:23,005 Speaker 1: He retired from the force years ago and became a 275 00:19:23,045 --> 00:19:26,325 Speaker 1: private investigator. I've been thrown out a more poee farmers 276 00:19:26,325 --> 00:19:29,525 Speaker 1: and anyone around been thrown out. A senator told me 277 00:19:29,565 --> 00:19:34,165 Speaker 1: a Mississippi Bible archer saw hot Springs two times and 278 00:19:34,205 --> 00:19:35,925 Speaker 1: I had to get up in their face, and I say, 279 00:19:36,005 --> 00:19:39,325 Speaker 1: you know, if you're not going to do your g 280 00:19:39,565 --> 00:19:44,325 Speaker 1: D job, at least pretend you give damn you'll make 281 00:19:44,365 --> 00:19:49,525 Speaker 1: these victims feel better. In early twenty sixteen, Laurie asked 282 00:19:49,525 --> 00:19:52,285 Speaker 1: Money to investigate Abbie's case. I didn't want to get 283 00:19:52,325 --> 00:19:54,925 Speaker 1: involved in they're saying at all, I said, I don't 284 00:19:54,965 --> 00:19:58,325 Speaker 1: need to interfere with the priest department. I regret that now. 285 00:19:58,965 --> 00:20:02,845 Speaker 1: Money says he was actually reluctant to get involved because 286 00:20:02,845 --> 00:20:06,405 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to insert himself into an active police investigation. 287 00:20:07,205 --> 00:20:09,885 Speaker 1: He is sure that the police will do a good job, 288 00:20:10,765 --> 00:20:14,565 Speaker 1: but when he starts digging into Ebbie's case, he's deeply 289 00:20:14,685 --> 00:20:19,565 Speaker 1: troubled by what he finds. First, he tries to get 290 00:20:19,645 --> 00:20:23,045 Speaker 1: security camera footage from the time around when Ebbie went missing. 291 00:20:24,165 --> 00:20:27,445 Speaker 1: Police did have some security footage of Ebby's car on 292 00:20:27,605 --> 00:20:31,165 Speaker 1: Channel Parkway. This is the single image, by the way 293 00:20:31,205 --> 00:20:35,725 Speaker 1: that has been released by police of Ebby. Police would 294 00:20:35,805 --> 00:20:38,445 Speaker 1: not say if Ebbie was in the car alone when 295 00:20:38,485 --> 00:20:43,005 Speaker 1: the footage was taken, or even which way she was traveling. Also, 296 00:20:43,325 --> 00:20:46,725 Speaker 1: Laurie said that Ebby's phone needed Wi Fi to make calls, 297 00:20:47,245 --> 00:20:49,445 Speaker 1: so she would often sit in the parking lot of 298 00:20:49,485 --> 00:20:54,365 Speaker 1: the Walmart that was about three minutes away from Shalmont Park. Tragically, 299 00:20:54,805 --> 00:20:58,125 Speaker 1: by the time Monty talked to people at Walmart. It 300 00:20:58,205 --> 00:21:02,925 Speaker 1: had been several months, and Walmart says the surveillance footage 301 00:21:02,965 --> 00:21:07,445 Speaker 1: had already been deleted. Five months after Ebbie went missing, 302 00:21:08,325 --> 00:21:13,165 Speaker 1: Monty goes back to Shalamant Park. He starts canvassing and 303 00:21:13,285 --> 00:21:17,085 Speaker 1: knocking on doors. He's looking for anyone who may have 304 00:21:17,125 --> 00:21:19,685 Speaker 1: been in the area where Ebbie's car was found and 305 00:21:19,805 --> 00:21:23,325 Speaker 1: he may have seen Ebbie on those crucial days. That's 306 00:21:23,325 --> 00:21:27,965 Speaker 1: when he finds Guy Hooper. Guy Hooper is a security 307 00:21:27,965 --> 00:21:31,765 Speaker 1: guard who patrols Shalamant Park on a regular basis, and 308 00:21:32,405 --> 00:21:34,925 Speaker 1: he was on duty the night that Ebbie went missing. 309 00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:37,965 Speaker 1: How did you find the security guard? Did you just 310 00:21:38,925 --> 00:21:41,565 Speaker 1: think there might have been a security guard there? And Yeah, 311 00:21:42,685 --> 00:21:49,725 Speaker 1: called out there and after the park area and found 312 00:21:49,765 --> 00:21:51,845 Speaker 1: out as a security guard. And I called him and 313 00:21:51,965 --> 00:21:53,965 Speaker 1: he told me on the phone for this and I 314 00:21:54,085 --> 00:21:56,285 Speaker 1: arranged to meet him out there. That's when I took 315 00:21:57,125 --> 00:22:00,405 Speaker 1: recorded statement from me about a forty five men or 316 00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:05,165 Speaker 1: our statement. Monty is shocked when Guy tells him that 317 00:22:05,205 --> 00:22:07,565 Speaker 1: he's the first person to show up to talk to 318 00:22:07,605 --> 00:22:12,445 Speaker 1: him about this investigation. Then Guy Hooper tells Money that 319 00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:16,125 Speaker 1: he actually called the police multiple times about Ebbe's car 320 00:22:16,725 --> 00:22:18,645 Speaker 1: and that the police had failed to show up in 321 00:22:18,685 --> 00:22:22,685 Speaker 1: the park. And then guy says that he had seen 322 00:22:22,765 --> 00:22:27,205 Speaker 1: Ebby before at that park during his routine patrols. He 323 00:22:27,245 --> 00:22:32,565 Speaker 1: had seen her there before with a young small black 324 00:22:32,605 --> 00:22:36,085 Speaker 1: male about her size, about five foot he said, five 325 00:22:36,125 --> 00:22:40,765 Speaker 1: foot three or four, and he had seen her there 326 00:22:40,925 --> 00:22:45,365 Speaker 1: multiple times. And one of the things that was just 327 00:22:45,965 --> 00:22:48,645 Speaker 1: gets you right in the heart that he said he 328 00:22:48,685 --> 00:22:51,005 Speaker 1: had all his own video, that he had a dash 329 00:22:51,085 --> 00:22:56,125 Speaker 1: camera and he videoed all of the encounters with her 330 00:22:56,285 --> 00:22:58,645 Speaker 1: in the past, because he said every night when he 331 00:22:58,685 --> 00:23:02,885 Speaker 1: would when he would get off shift, he would download 332 00:23:03,325 --> 00:23:06,525 Speaker 1: take a chip and download it to to his computer. 333 00:23:06,805 --> 00:23:11,725 Speaker 1: But then he tells us that's all gone now, this 334 00:23:11,845 --> 00:23:14,285 Speaker 1: dash cam footage that he had of Ebby is gone. 335 00:23:15,365 --> 00:23:18,205 Speaker 1: Guy says that he lost the footage after his computer 336 00:23:18,285 --> 00:23:23,405 Speaker 1: malfunctioned one morning. He came home shot to download the 337 00:23:23,925 --> 00:23:27,805 Speaker 1: dash cam and a computer said it could not read 338 00:23:27,845 --> 00:23:32,485 Speaker 1: this device. So his wife worked at a company and 339 00:23:32,565 --> 00:23:37,605 Speaker 1: the attic and computer tech there that she took the 340 00:23:37,605 --> 00:23:42,885 Speaker 1: computer and the chip in there, and the guy told 341 00:23:42,965 --> 00:23:46,365 Speaker 1: him said, computer shot, its fried. You know, it's an 342 00:23:46,365 --> 00:23:50,565 Speaker 1: old and best thing. Due just get your new computer. 343 00:23:50,965 --> 00:23:54,285 Speaker 1: So he did, and a computer tech guy through his 344 00:23:54,445 --> 00:23:58,885 Speaker 1: other computer and everything away. Monty gives this information to 345 00:23:58,925 --> 00:24:02,445 Speaker 1: the police and then stops his investigation for a few months. 346 00:24:03,285 --> 00:24:07,085 Speaker 1: He still hopes the police will handle it, but then 347 00:24:07,765 --> 00:24:12,645 Speaker 1: nothing happens, so he gets back on the case. Monty 348 00:24:12,765 --> 00:24:15,765 Speaker 1: wants to find out who Ebby was with on Friday 349 00:24:15,845 --> 00:24:20,005 Speaker 1: night and what happened to her. He goes back and 350 00:24:20,085 --> 00:24:24,925 Speaker 1: finds another friend of Ebby's, a guy named Gage. Gage 351 00:24:24,965 --> 00:24:27,965 Speaker 1: shares the text that Ebby had sent him on Friday 352 00:24:28,045 --> 00:24:31,445 Speaker 1: night with Monty, the ones where she said she had 353 00:24:31,525 --> 00:24:34,165 Speaker 1: sex with a guy who filmed her against her will. 354 00:24:35,445 --> 00:24:39,645 Speaker 1: Since Ebby had sent these texts alleging sexual assault, Monty 355 00:24:39,765 --> 00:24:43,885 Speaker 1: believes that police absolutely have probable cause to search the 356 00:24:43,925 --> 00:24:46,245 Speaker 1: phones of the boys who were mentioned in those texts. 357 00:24:46,765 --> 00:24:51,605 Speaker 1: Jac whyatt Superhu said that he had asked for their phone. 358 00:24:51,725 --> 00:24:55,965 Speaker 1: They wouldn't give him their phones, so that's all they did. 359 00:24:56,165 --> 00:24:59,725 Speaker 1: So after they told me that, that's when I call 360 00:25:00,085 --> 00:25:05,005 Speaker 1: the prosecuting attorney. Monty calls up the prosecuting attorney, Larry Juggley, 361 00:25:05,245 --> 00:25:07,485 Speaker 1: to get his insights on this. I called him with 362 00:25:07,565 --> 00:25:09,925 Speaker 1: a lawyer and him there that night. I called him 363 00:25:09,965 --> 00:25:13,685 Speaker 1: and told him about this, and I said they need 364 00:25:13,685 --> 00:25:18,885 Speaker 1: to get these three guys cell phones, and he agreed, 365 00:25:19,285 --> 00:25:24,365 Speaker 1: so he had a deputy prosecutor go to the Little 366 00:25:24,485 --> 00:25:29,765 Speaker 1: Rock Police department, and from what I was told, the 367 00:25:29,765 --> 00:25:36,165 Speaker 1: detective sergeant argued with the deputy prosecutor that there wasn't 368 00:25:36,285 --> 00:25:42,685 Speaker 1: enough probable cause to seize these cell phones. What Money's 369 00:25:42,765 --> 00:25:46,125 Speaker 1: getting out here is that this situation is getting surreal 370 00:25:46,805 --> 00:25:50,325 Speaker 1: because usually it's the prosecuting attorney who's telling the detectives 371 00:25:50,445 --> 00:25:53,365 Speaker 1: that they don't have enough evidence, then the detectives go 372 00:25:53,405 --> 00:25:56,165 Speaker 1: out and try to get more. It's never the other 373 00:25:56,205 --> 00:26:01,445 Speaker 1: way around. It's unbelievable to Money that a prosecuting attorney 374 00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:05,125 Speaker 1: is recommending seizing the phones and that the police are 375 00:26:05,125 --> 00:26:09,205 Speaker 1: refused to do it. So, even though she's been kicked 376 00:26:09,205 --> 00:26:13,325 Speaker 1: out of the meetings, Laurie continues to email the police department. 377 00:26:14,165 --> 00:26:16,525 Speaker 1: She takes it to the next level and emails the 378 00:26:16,565 --> 00:26:21,685 Speaker 1: captain and finally she gets another meeting with the police. 379 00:26:22,405 --> 00:26:26,325 Speaker 1: This time everyone is there, the captain, the detectives, the 380 00:26:26,365 --> 00:26:30,245 Speaker 1: prosecuting attorney. Laurie wants to make sure that her voice 381 00:26:30,525 --> 00:26:33,725 Speaker 1: and her complaints are heard. So I took all this 382 00:26:34,165 --> 00:26:38,125 Speaker 1: to the captain and had a meeting with everybody. And 383 00:26:38,165 --> 00:26:41,565 Speaker 1: the first thing was why did you have to email 384 00:26:41,645 --> 00:26:47,445 Speaker 1: the chief? And I said, to get y'all's attention. I said, 385 00:26:47,445 --> 00:26:49,965 Speaker 1: it got a meeting, didn't it. I got all of 386 00:26:50,005 --> 00:26:52,965 Speaker 1: y'all in the room. She has a lot of grievances, 387 00:26:53,165 --> 00:26:56,565 Speaker 1: the phone, the social media, the fact that it appears 388 00:26:56,565 --> 00:27:00,245 Speaker 1: to her that police haven't really been doing anything, for instance, 389 00:27:00,325 --> 00:27:03,285 Speaker 1: even things that would seem to be basic, like why 390 00:27:03,365 --> 00:27:06,685 Speaker 1: hadn't police looked through security footage at the nearby walmart 391 00:27:06,965 --> 00:27:08,805 Speaker 1: that was less than half a mile from the park. 392 00:27:09,445 --> 00:27:11,925 Speaker 1: Then Laurie gets to the issue of the boy's phones, 393 00:27:13,085 --> 00:27:16,925 Speaker 1: and I said, so why don't I have Why can't 394 00:27:16,925 --> 00:27:20,965 Speaker 1: you get a subpoena for this? Don't have probable cause? 395 00:27:21,445 --> 00:27:23,845 Speaker 1: I said, why why don't have probable cause for this? 396 00:27:25,445 --> 00:27:27,805 Speaker 1: Don't have probable cause for this? And this? And I said, 397 00:27:27,965 --> 00:27:31,085 Speaker 1: the prosecuting attorney says, I do. And I said, what 398 00:27:31,605 --> 00:27:35,005 Speaker 1: at what level is probable cause? And the chief said, 399 00:27:35,205 --> 00:27:39,445 Speaker 1: the Captain said, when I say it is just started shaking. 400 00:27:40,045 --> 00:27:43,965 Speaker 1: I mean, I was just was like this, I'm never 401 00:27:44,045 --> 00:27:49,965 Speaker 1: gonna I'm never gonna win, Nothing's ever gonna happen. So 402 00:27:50,365 --> 00:27:54,605 Speaker 1: at that point I was so defeated. I mean I was, 403 00:27:55,045 --> 00:28:01,325 Speaker 1: I was so defeated. And Monti a former police officer, 404 00:28:01,845 --> 00:28:04,445 Speaker 1: someone who believed in the beginning that police were doing 405 00:28:04,525 --> 00:28:08,885 Speaker 1: all they could, even he says he lost all faith 406 00:28:08,925 --> 00:28:13,885 Speaker 1: in the investigation. After this meeting, the situation between Laurie 407 00:28:13,885 --> 00:28:18,525 Speaker 1: and the LRPD continued to deteriorate and things were about 408 00:28:18,565 --> 00:28:36,165 Speaker 1: to get a lot worse. Finally, in June twenty sixteen, 409 00:28:36,805 --> 00:28:40,245 Speaker 1: the case is handed over to the lrpd's Violent Crimes Unit. 410 00:28:41,205 --> 00:28:43,765 Speaker 1: In a way, this is a good thing because these 411 00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:48,005 Speaker 1: are the department's most experienced detectives. But Laurie and many 412 00:28:48,085 --> 00:28:51,125 Speaker 1: of Ebbie's family and friends question why it took so 413 00:28:51,205 --> 00:28:57,085 Speaker 1: long to happen. In November twenty sixteen, police conduct another 414 00:28:57,125 --> 00:29:02,005 Speaker 1: search of Shalamant Park. This is a massive search. They're 415 00:29:02,085 --> 00:29:05,605 Speaker 1: reporters there from local news stations watching the police who 416 00:29:05,645 --> 00:29:08,965 Speaker 1: are working with the FBI. There's a canine team and 417 00:29:09,125 --> 00:29:14,165 Speaker 1: dozens of people scouring the woods. We're out here to 418 00:29:14,605 --> 00:29:17,165 Speaker 1: conducting a search of an area. It referenced to a 419 00:29:17,165 --> 00:29:20,325 Speaker 1: missing person's case. That case is the Ebby Steppic case. 420 00:29:21,285 --> 00:29:26,285 Speaker 1: She disappeared about well approximate last year. The lrpds Lieutenant 421 00:29:26,365 --> 00:29:30,085 Speaker 1: Danny Jackson explains what they're looking for that day. We 422 00:29:30,125 --> 00:29:31,525 Speaker 1: want to come out here and see if there's any 423 00:29:31,525 --> 00:29:34,525 Speaker 1: evidence out here that will help us find out what 424 00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:37,205 Speaker 1: happened to Abby or where she is at. We've got 425 00:29:37,245 --> 00:29:42,485 Speaker 1: two canine teams that are going to search the wooded 426 00:29:42,525 --> 00:29:47,005 Speaker 1: area immediately surrounding the park. It's going to be about 427 00:29:47,005 --> 00:29:49,565 Speaker 1: a three day search, so it'll be pretty extensive. I 428 00:29:49,685 --> 00:29:51,805 Speaker 1: just want to be very very thorough on this and 429 00:29:52,325 --> 00:29:54,845 Speaker 1: check this one more time, just to be sure that's all. 430 00:29:56,405 --> 00:30:00,685 Speaker 1: After the search, police reveal that they found clothes, handcuffs, 431 00:30:00,685 --> 00:30:03,245 Speaker 1: a shoe, and what appears to be part of a 432 00:30:03,325 --> 00:30:07,365 Speaker 1: leg bone, but hesting would reveal that the bone is 433 00:30:07,365 --> 00:30:10,405 Speaker 1: an animal bone and has nothing to do with Ebbie's case. 434 00:30:11,445 --> 00:30:15,885 Speaker 1: Another search, another roller coaster of heartbreak for Ebby's family. 435 00:30:17,525 --> 00:30:21,485 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, almost two years after Ebbe went missing, 436 00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:25,165 Speaker 1: Laurie and Michael feel like they have nothing left to lose. 437 00:30:25,965 --> 00:30:28,685 Speaker 1: They decide to go even more public and take the 438 00:30:28,725 --> 00:30:32,285 Speaker 1: story to a national level. They go on Nancy Grace 439 00:30:32,645 --> 00:30:36,725 Speaker 1: and Doctor Phil. They up the reward for information about 440 00:30:36,725 --> 00:30:41,125 Speaker 1: Ebby's disappearance from fifteen thousand dollars to fifty thousand dollars. 441 00:30:42,205 --> 00:30:46,445 Speaker 1: The media outreach works, Ebby's story goes national and this 442 00:30:46,565 --> 00:30:49,725 Speaker 1: leads to a lot more interest in her case. And 443 00:30:50,445 --> 00:30:54,845 Speaker 1: Ebby's story is everywhere, and more publicity also means more 444 00:30:54,925 --> 00:30:58,125 Speaker 1: people calling in from all over the world saying they've 445 00:30:58,125 --> 00:31:02,525 Speaker 1: seen Ebby in different places. Police are overwhelmed at trying 446 00:31:02,565 --> 00:31:06,645 Speaker 1: to track down all these Ebbe sightings. Some people even 447 00:31:06,725 --> 00:31:10,325 Speaker 1: call in with fake tips. This leads to a lot 448 00:31:10,405 --> 00:31:14,685 Speaker 1: of wasted time by the police and also more torment 449 00:31:14,765 --> 00:31:20,165 Speaker 1: for Ebby's family. There's one caller, a person who says 450 00:31:20,245 --> 00:31:24,205 Speaker 1: they're holding Ebby hostage and demands money to set her free, 451 00:31:25,165 --> 00:31:27,925 Speaker 1: And even though that caller turned out to be a hoax, 452 00:31:28,765 --> 00:31:31,565 Speaker 1: Laurie starts wondering if Ebbie could have been a victim 453 00:31:31,645 --> 00:31:36,325 Speaker 1: of sex trafficking. Laurie says that at this point she 454 00:31:36,445 --> 00:31:41,245 Speaker 1: felt trapped. She believes that the police are not investigating 455 00:31:41,245 --> 00:31:45,085 Speaker 1: Ebbie's case properly. She thinks that they're anger at her 456 00:31:45,245 --> 00:31:49,565 Speaker 1: and her family mean that they're not following leads. But 457 00:31:49,685 --> 00:31:52,165 Speaker 1: on the other hand, she's worried that if she takes 458 00:31:52,165 --> 00:31:57,605 Speaker 1: her complaints farther, police might stop the investigation completely. On 459 00:31:57,685 --> 00:32:02,445 Speaker 1: February twelve, twenty eighteen, Laurie files a complaint with the LRPD. 460 00:32:03,685 --> 00:32:06,885 Speaker 1: In her complaint, Laurie d tells what the officers had 461 00:32:07,005 --> 00:32:10,725 Speaker 1: done and what they hadn't done. She talks about how 462 00:32:10,805 --> 00:32:14,445 Speaker 1: some officers sent her threatening messages and told her she 463 00:32:14,445 --> 00:32:18,005 Speaker 1: would no longer be getting case updates, basically banning her 464 00:32:18,045 --> 00:32:22,405 Speaker 1: from the investigation. In August of that year, Laurie gets 465 00:32:22,445 --> 00:32:25,965 Speaker 1: a letter back from the LRPD. It's signed by then 466 00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:30,325 Speaker 1: Chief Kent and Buckner. The letter, which does not mention 467 00:32:30,485 --> 00:32:33,805 Speaker 1: any of the officers Laurie mentions by name, states that 468 00:32:33,885 --> 00:32:37,605 Speaker 1: police did not have enough information quote to prove or 469 00:32:37,725 --> 00:32:41,285 Speaker 1: disprove that your allegation that the sworn personnel were rude 470 00:32:41,325 --> 00:32:45,645 Speaker 1: and unprofessional during your contact with them end quote. The 471 00:32:45,765 --> 00:32:48,885 Speaker 1: police investigation seemed to consist solely of talking to the 472 00:32:48,925 --> 00:32:54,445 Speaker 1: officers and their immediate supervisors. It was all done internally. However, 473 00:32:54,605 --> 00:32:57,925 Speaker 1: after the complaint, the detective who had been assigned to 474 00:32:57,925 --> 00:33:02,165 Speaker 1: the case is removed, and that's when Tommy Hudson takes over. 475 00:33:03,085 --> 00:33:06,525 Speaker 1: Laurie says, at that point every thing starts to change. 476 00:33:11,525 --> 00:33:14,085 Speaker 1: Hey Tommy, this is Katherine Hawnsend. How are you doing 477 00:33:14,925 --> 00:33:18,205 Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good. Well, thanks for talking to us. 478 00:33:18,285 --> 00:33:20,965 Speaker 1: I've been down here. I've been talking a lot to Laurie. 479 00:33:21,045 --> 00:33:24,285 Speaker 1: And my colleague Mike is here too. I brought him 480 00:33:24,285 --> 00:33:28,925 Speaker 1: with me. How you doing, man. Tommy Hudson has had 481 00:33:28,965 --> 00:33:31,685 Speaker 1: a long career with the LRPD as a homicide detective. 482 00:33:32,245 --> 00:33:35,245 Speaker 1: He'd actually retired a few months earlier, but he got 483 00:33:35,285 --> 00:33:37,525 Speaker 1: pulled back in to work on Ebbie's case as part 484 00:33:37,565 --> 00:33:39,685 Speaker 1: of the cold case. He other detectives that had this 485 00:33:39,725 --> 00:33:44,045 Speaker 1: case prior to be investigating it, and they screwed up 486 00:33:44,085 --> 00:33:48,125 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff on this case and so I 487 00:33:48,165 --> 00:33:50,485 Speaker 1: got basically it just got thrown in my lapse, like 488 00:33:50,765 --> 00:33:54,845 Speaker 1: fix this. When Tommy gets the case, he finds that 489 00:33:54,965 --> 00:33:59,125 Speaker 1: only some superficial stuff had been done with Ebbie's phone. Also, 490 00:33:59,685 --> 00:34:01,925 Speaker 1: up to the point that he gets the case, there's 491 00:34:01,925 --> 00:34:05,965 Speaker 1: been little cooperation between the LRPD and the FBI. It 492 00:34:06,005 --> 00:34:08,325 Speaker 1: was the supervisors involved in that case on the front 493 00:34:08,405 --> 00:34:12,925 Speaker 1: end that refused to give that cooperation, to let them 494 00:34:13,045 --> 00:34:16,165 Speaker 1: use that effertise do the things that we finally got. 495 00:34:16,525 --> 00:34:18,245 Speaker 1: That's the first thing we did when we took over 496 00:34:18,245 --> 00:34:20,965 Speaker 1: the case, because you know, I mean, Laurie, them I'll 497 00:34:21,005 --> 00:34:23,885 Speaker 1: tell you that everything was kind of focused on the 498 00:34:24,005 --> 00:34:27,605 Speaker 1: family on the front end of the case, and that 499 00:34:27,725 --> 00:34:32,285 Speaker 1: was just, in my opinion, stupidity. And because we I 500 00:34:32,325 --> 00:34:35,725 Speaker 1: want to say, we had the family pretty much eliminated 501 00:34:35,805 --> 00:34:40,645 Speaker 1: at least through digital evidence within a few days, and 502 00:34:40,965 --> 00:34:43,765 Speaker 1: you know, because they were real apprehensive of cooperating, which 503 00:34:43,765 --> 00:34:46,925 Speaker 1: I understand, and then we we finally I had Laurie 504 00:34:46,965 --> 00:34:49,725 Speaker 1: and Michael come in. I said, I'd say, new guy, 505 00:34:50,485 --> 00:34:54,525 Speaker 1: you know everything happened before, it's not me, and this 506 00:34:54,605 --> 00:34:56,725 Speaker 1: is what we need to do. And then they cooperated 507 00:34:56,765 --> 00:34:58,565 Speaker 1: and do the things we did, like giving us new 508 00:34:58,605 --> 00:35:02,645 Speaker 1: formal statements, taking polygraphs and all that good stuff. And 509 00:35:02,645 --> 00:35:04,525 Speaker 1: and I kind of feel sorry for them the way 510 00:35:04,525 --> 00:35:05,965 Speaker 1: they were treated on the front end the case, because 511 00:35:05,965 --> 00:35:07,485 Speaker 1: it should have been treated the way they were treated. 512 00:35:07,885 --> 00:35:10,485 Speaker 1: Monty Vickers says that he brought up the idea of 513 00:35:10,525 --> 00:35:13,445 Speaker 1: looking again at the drainage pipe near where Ebbie's car 514 00:35:13,525 --> 00:35:16,805 Speaker 1: was found. Monny had been trying to get down into 515 00:35:16,845 --> 00:35:20,245 Speaker 1: that drain pipe since he started his investigation. I'd done 516 00:35:20,285 --> 00:35:23,445 Speaker 1: everything I could do, try to find a robot, red robot, 517 00:35:23,525 --> 00:35:26,645 Speaker 1: buy one, I said, they're especially but still I would 518 00:35:26,645 --> 00:35:29,685 Speaker 1: have like to have taken a robot up in there 519 00:35:30,685 --> 00:35:35,405 Speaker 1: and see you at anything. On May twenty four, twenty eighteen, 520 00:35:35,885 --> 00:35:39,485 Speaker 1: the Cold Case Unit does another search along with the FBI. 521 00:35:40,445 --> 00:35:44,005 Speaker 1: This time they use robot video cameras that Tommy gets 522 00:35:44,005 --> 00:35:48,325 Speaker 1: from the city. And then the next day I got 523 00:35:48,325 --> 00:35:52,285 Speaker 1: a call and there's gonna be digging the trained pipe up. 524 00:35:52,765 --> 00:35:57,925 Speaker 1: I said, you mean I found something? Said, yeah, looks 525 00:35:57,965 --> 00:36:02,045 Speaker 1: like it. I'm sitting there and I'm kicking myself and 526 00:36:02,205 --> 00:36:08,165 Speaker 1: I'm just you know, because I just shoot. I should 527 00:36:08,165 --> 00:36:13,645 Speaker 1: have kept on with that. On May twenty eight, twenty eighteen, 528 00:36:14,085 --> 00:36:18,125 Speaker 1: Tommy Hudson makes this statement with RPD, we decided to 529 00:36:18,165 --> 00:36:21,645 Speaker 1: conduct a search of the piping and drainage system close 530 00:36:21,685 --> 00:36:23,925 Speaker 1: to the area where Missus Steffi's car was initially found 531 00:36:23,925 --> 00:36:28,845 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. We used robots with video cameras that 532 00:36:28,845 --> 00:36:31,925 Speaker 1: we were able to send down the drains. Eventually, starting 533 00:36:31,965 --> 00:36:34,845 Speaker 1: from the top drain where her car was found, we 534 00:36:34,965 --> 00:36:38,085 Speaker 1: hit obstruction seventy feet down from the top part of 535 00:36:38,165 --> 00:36:41,205 Speaker 1: where her car was. We then took the same robots 536 00:36:41,205 --> 00:36:43,245 Speaker 1: and ran them back up the other end from the 537 00:36:43,285 --> 00:36:46,005 Speaker 1: drain up another one hundred and thirty feet and located 538 00:36:46,045 --> 00:36:49,365 Speaker 1: another obstruction. Neither one of those obstructions were human remains, 539 00:36:49,845 --> 00:36:52,245 Speaker 1: but they picked our interest that we had an obstruction 540 00:36:52,765 --> 00:36:54,765 Speaker 1: from seventy feet from the top from one hundred and 541 00:36:54,765 --> 00:36:57,645 Speaker 1: thirty feet from the bottom. So we made the determination 542 00:36:57,805 --> 00:37:00,925 Speaker 1: that we needed to eescavate this area to see what 543 00:37:00,965 --> 00:37:04,845 Speaker 1: was inside the pipe itself. At ten thirty hours on 544 00:37:04,925 --> 00:37:07,445 Speaker 1: Tuesday morning, and we located the piping section that we 545 00:37:07,445 --> 00:37:09,085 Speaker 1: believe we need to open up to see what the 546 00:37:09,165 --> 00:37:15,045 Speaker 1: obstruction was. Upon opening that pipe, co case investigators located 547 00:37:15,125 --> 00:37:18,285 Speaker 1: human rant remains inside that pipe. At that time, we 548 00:37:18,325 --> 00:37:21,165 Speaker 1: shut everything down and immediately went and try to search 549 00:37:21,285 --> 00:37:23,605 Speaker 1: for the family of Miss Stebbi to let them know 550 00:37:23,685 --> 00:37:27,685 Speaker 1: we had found human remains. That process took several hours 551 00:37:27,685 --> 00:37:30,445 Speaker 1: to recover those remains along with new evidence that we 552 00:37:30,445 --> 00:37:33,405 Speaker 1: did find inside this piping system. The remains were sent 553 00:37:33,445 --> 00:37:36,405 Speaker 1: to the Oursel State Crime Lack for positive dentification and 554 00:37:36,445 --> 00:37:38,645 Speaker 1: we'll be waiting for the testing results on that evidence 555 00:37:38,645 --> 00:37:41,645 Speaker 1: that was taken from those pipes. A few days later, 556 00:37:42,205 --> 00:37:46,605 Speaker 1: those remains are positively identified. The body they found is 557 00:37:46,845 --> 00:37:52,245 Speaker 1: Ebby Steppic. Ebby Steppic, two and a half years after 558 00:37:52,365 --> 00:38:05,485 Speaker 1: she's disappeared is confirmed dead. Remember that search the police 559 00:38:05,685 --> 00:38:09,725 Speaker 1: did back in twenty sixteen. If you hit pause during 560 00:38:09,765 --> 00:38:13,685 Speaker 1: that press conference, you can actually see the manhole, the 561 00:38:13,725 --> 00:38:16,525 Speaker 1: one that Ebbie's car was parked in front of, the 562 00:38:16,525 --> 00:38:19,205 Speaker 1: one that leads down to that pipe where her body 563 00:38:19,285 --> 00:38:23,405 Speaker 1: was found. Laurie and the rest of Ebby's family had 564 00:38:23,405 --> 00:38:27,325 Speaker 1: been back to that part countless times over the years, 565 00:38:27,325 --> 00:38:30,565 Speaker 1: and some interviews with Laurie you can see her standing 566 00:38:30,725 --> 00:38:34,205 Speaker 1: right in front of that manhole. All this time, she 567 00:38:34,325 --> 00:38:37,205 Speaker 1: was going through escort websites and chasing sightings all around 568 00:38:37,245 --> 00:38:41,765 Speaker 1: the world, dealing with faked blackmail threats and living a nightmare. 569 00:38:42,685 --> 00:38:47,125 Speaker 1: Ebbie was here the whole time. Now we need to 570 00:38:47,165 --> 00:38:51,045 Speaker 1: find out how she got down there. I'm Katherine Townsend. 571 00:38:51,525 --> 00:38:56,245 Speaker 1: This is Helen Gone. Helen Gone is a production of 572 00:38:56,285 --> 00:38:59,885 Speaker 1: School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It's written and hosted by 573 00:38:59,925 --> 00:39:03,605 Speaker 1: me Katherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts and Michael 574 00:39:03,645 --> 00:39:07,925 Speaker 1: Dowd Our executive Pretty Users or Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, 575 00:39:07,965 --> 00:39:11,725 Speaker 1: and Virginia Prescott. Mix and master is by Ryan Peoples 576 00:39:12,085 --> 00:39:19,165 Speaker 1: and our music is by Bensley. If you have any 577 00:39:19,205 --> 00:39:23,205 Speaker 1: information regarding the disappearance, of Epistepic. You can call our 578 00:39:23,245 --> 00:39:27,565 Speaker 1: tipline at six seven eight six three two six one 579 00:39:27,765 --> 00:39:43,045 Speaker 1: five nine School of Humans, School of Humans,