1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: Mind Listener Mail. My name is Joe McCormick. My regular 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: co host, Robert Lamb is out today, so I'm going 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: to be recording this episode. Sol one announcement. Rob and 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: I are both going to be out the rest of 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: this week and the very beginning of next week. So 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: we've got some vault episodes lined up for you starting tomorrow. 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: But I should be back with all new listener mail 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 1: on Monday then, and we'll have other new episodes for 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 1: you sometime that week, I believe on Wednesday. So right 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: on to your messages. This first message comes from Raphael 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: and it's a response to our episodes on t Rafael says, Hello, 14 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: Robert and Joe. I just finished part three of your 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: Exploration of Tea, and I wanted to say I really 16 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: enjoyed these episodes. I'm not a big tea drinker, though 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: various tea varieties seem to proliferate in our kitchen cabinet. 18 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: That said, Rob's poetry readings made me brew a cup immediately. 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: As a food scientist, I always appreciate episodes where you 20 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: get into the history, science, and culture of foods. What 21 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: put the t series over the top for me was 22 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: the digression in part three on the topics of reology 23 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: and philosophy. This is why I love your show. I 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: wanted to expand on a few comments you made in 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: part two while talking about you lose preference for blue 26 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: glazed teacups. Uh and plenty of the elder I couldn't 27 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: agree more with your point that visual presentation can really 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: influence our perception of the flavor of foods and beverages. 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: I've been involved in proprietary research that showed that changing 30 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: food color can influence taste perception. Broadly speaking, the effect 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: of color on food is well known and significant. A 32 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: quick web search found an open access review by Charles 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: Spence titled on the psychological impact of food color. Flavor, intensity, 34 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: detection thresholds, and even basic flavor identification can all be 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: manipulated with color changes. It is amazing what a little 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: food coloring can do. Uh. Yes, Raphael, that is true, 37 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: and so we made general reference in the episode to 38 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: the idea that say, changing the color of the plates 39 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: or cups in which food and beverage are presented can 40 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: affect the perception of the properties of that food or beverage. 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight a few specifics about the background color, 42 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: in particular because that was the original context youlu talking 43 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: about blue glaze teacup. So how much does the color 44 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,399 Speaker 1: of a cup or a plate affect what you taste 45 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: or or how you consume food? I found a review 46 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: article but the same author you mentioned, Raphael This is 47 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: also by Charles spin Charles Spence is a psychologist at 48 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: Oxford University who studies food perception. UH. This was a 49 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: different review. It was called Background Color and its Impact 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: on Food Perception and Behavior, published in Food Quality and 51 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: Preference in the year eighteen and so after reviewing the 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: existing research as of this year, Spence writes, UH, this 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: year being when it was published. Spence writes that there 54 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: is clear evidence that quote, while people obviously cannot literally 55 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: taste the plate, the color of the plate, bowl, glass, cup, cutlery, pot, 56 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: and package in slash against which a product is seen 57 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: can certainly influence how appealing of food looks, what it 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: tastes like, and even how much we end up consuming 59 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: and or serving ourselves. However, that the interesting thing I 60 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: found from reading His conclusions is that background color and 61 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: food perception relationships are not static and linear, they are 62 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: dying amic and complex. So it's not just like, oh, 63 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: food tastes better on a red plate or something like that. Instead, 64 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: Spence writes that one example is a trend of findings 65 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: that desserts taste sweeter when served off of white plates, 66 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: then when served off of black plates. And meanwhile, black 67 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: plates may enhance the experience of savory dishes. And so 68 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: the dynamic aspect is that whether these effects are desirable 69 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 1: or not may depend on the properties of the food 70 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: itself and the expectations of the diner. So uh, if 71 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: a if a dessert tends to taste sweeter off of 72 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 1: a white plate, and that dessert is already considered too 73 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: sweet in isolation, it may actually be more enjoyable if 74 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: it's consumed off of a black plate, dulling the sweetness, 75 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: Whereas the opposite holds true as well. A dessert that 76 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: people consider not sweet enough can be enhanced by a 77 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: white plate, heightening the perception of sweetness. And there are 78 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: other interesting findings well that Uspence mentioned and his conclusions. 79 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: One is that when a food is considered an unhealthy indulgence, 80 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: people seem to naturally eat less of it when it 81 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: is presented on a red plate, and the reasons for 82 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: these effects of color on food perception and consumption behavior 83 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: are still up for debate, like do the colors function 84 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: by triggering environmentally salient associations between certain colors and certain 85 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: types of nutrient contents? You know? Could it be that 86 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: when you see this color in the natural environment, it 87 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: often has this kind of uh, maybe a poisoning danger 88 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: associated with it, or this kind of nutrient reward associated 89 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: with it? Or are these associations learned or are they 90 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: simply a result of color effects on mood? And questions 91 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: like that, uh, And I think those are not fully 92 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: solved yet. But anyway, back to Rafhaile's message, however, I 93 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: think you may both have done Plenty wrong. There was 94 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: a bit of chuckling over Plenty. This is our reference 95 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: to Plenty the elder. Uh. There was a bit of 96 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: chuckling over Plenty writing that sappa boiled in copper pots 97 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: tasted bitter, while the same beverage boiled in lead pots 98 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: tasted sweet. At least in this case, Plenty may have 99 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: been accurately reporting a real phenomenon. If his starting grape 100 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: juice had been sitting around long enough to form some 101 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: acetic acid, Plenty may well have been cooking up some 102 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: lead acetate, also known as sugar of lead. Lead acetate 103 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: is a toxic compound with a sweet taste. By the 104 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: same token, dissolved copper has a metallic and bitter taste 105 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: at least according to determination of the taste threshold of 106 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: copper in water by Zacharias. At all the lead pot 107 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: might actually have made the sappa taste sweet, though also poisonous. 108 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: And to come back on this, Yes, Raphael, this is 109 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: a great point to explore for those of you who 110 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: don't know or don't remember the original context of this 111 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: little digression we did some years back. Rob and I 112 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: had an episode where we talked about people intentionally consuming 113 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: lead acetate as a medicine or a food additive, which 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: you absolutely should not do. It is highly poisonous. But 115 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: one of the examples we discussed was a passage in 116 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: Plenty of the Elder where he writes that leaden pots 117 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: and not copper pots, should be used for the production 118 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: of sappa. Sappa was a like a sweet syrup used 119 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: by the ancient Romans, I think used kind of in 120 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: the way that you know a bartender might use simple 121 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: syrup today. It was a sweetening agent, though not as 122 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: sweet as today's simple syrup would be, but um, it 123 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: was a It was a sweetening agent to syrup that 124 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: the ancient Romans made by boiling down and reducing a 125 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: liquid called must, which was a type of lightly fermented 126 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: grape juice, kind of a weak wine. And the reasoning 127 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: we discussed in that episode is exactly what Raphael is 128 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 1: saying here that Plenty's recommendation was probably because boiling must 129 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: in a metal pot would cause some chemical reaction between 130 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: the acetic acid, which is the type of acid that 131 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: is in vinegar, uh and uh, the acetic acid in 132 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: the juice and the metal walls of the pot. So 133 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: if it's copper pot, this is going to result in 134 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: copper acetate salts, which tastes disgusting, bitter, nasty, metallic flavor. 135 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: And uh. If you boil it in a lead pot, 136 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: on the other hand, the same thing happens, but it 137 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: forms lead acetate, which is very poisonous but is also sweet. 138 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: So yes, Raphael, your analysis is spot on. I think 139 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: Plenty's advice about pot metal selection was exactly right from 140 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: a flavor point of view, just without any understanding of 141 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: the dire health effects that could flow from this. Uh 142 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: And to supplement this, I wanted to read from the 143 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: entry on sugar of lead in the Oxford Companion to 144 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: Sugar and Sweets. This entry was written by the American 145 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: chemist Michelle in FRANCEL. Francile Wrights quote. Chemical analysis of 146 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: sappa produced according to the recipes dating from the Ascle 147 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: Roman period using kettles of similar metallic composition as those 148 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: found at Pompeii and other sites, suggests that the lead 149 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: content of sappa was eight hundred and fifty milligrams per leader, 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: many thousand times higher than what is generally allowable in 151 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: drinking water, even diluted and used sparingly. Sweetening with sappa 152 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: posed a serious risk. However, to come back on what 153 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: you said, Raphael, about the validity of Plenty's idea that 154 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: that it really did make the sapa sweeter to use 155 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: a lead pot France, Will argues in this entry in 156 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: the Oxford Handbook here that the amount of sugar of 157 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: lead produced by boiling down a pot of must probably 158 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: would not have made a major contribution to the sweetness 159 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: of the syrup, because it would only represent a taste 160 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: change equivalent to adding a pinch of sugar to a 161 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: product that was already pretty sweet. So you know this, 162 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: sappa would already have levels of glucose and fructose equivalent 163 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: to roughly one cup of table sugar per leader of liquid. 164 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: So in the specific example of sappa, the preference for 165 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: lead pots over copper might be more due to the 166 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: fact that lead pots do not produce the disgusting bitter 167 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: copper flavor than to the small amount of additional sweetness 168 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: that the lead would add. And while we're on the subject, 169 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: I just thought I should add that the practice of 170 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: intentionally adding lead to food products was not limited to 171 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: this sweetening effect for sappa. In ancient Rome. Up until 172 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 1: the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, lead metal and lead salts 173 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: were used in a number of ways. Were used as 174 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: a preservative and an antimicrobial agent, and just got into 175 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: foods because people used lead machinery and cookware to make 176 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: foods with, but it was used as an antimicrobial agent 177 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: and beverages like wine and cider because sugar lead is 178 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: poisonous to bacteria. In the same way it's poisonous to 179 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: us and Francile writes quote Vintner's observed the filtering fermentation 180 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: mixtures through lead sieves or dropping some lead shot into 181 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: bottled wine noticeably reduced spoilage. A firm connection between ingesting 182 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: low levels of lead in these beverages and lead poisoning 183 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: was finally made in the early nineteenth century, in part 184 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: because of the correlation between outbreaks of colic of Potu 185 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: uh and the arrival of wine shipments containing lead. Colic 186 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: of Potu, by the way, is the name for an 187 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: originally mysterious condition also known as Devonshare colic, which was 188 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: observed I believe beginning in the seventeenth century, but it 189 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: affected uh people in France I think, mostly through wine, 190 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: and people in Devonshire, England through their cider. In both 191 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: cases it was eventually determined that lead was the was 192 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: the culprit lead used as a preservative in some cases, 193 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: or because of production processes using lead lined machines. Finally, 194 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: coming back to the end of Raphael's message here file rites. Lastly, 195 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: I have noticed Joe building confidence in understanding rayology and 196 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: fluid dynamics over the years. I don't know about that, Raphael, 197 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: but I appreciate uh. He says, you both did a 198 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,599 Speaker 1: great job making the physics behind the teapot effect more accessible. 199 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: Reyology is one of those areas where the concepts can 200 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: be really hard to understand, but once you do, you 201 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: will see its principles in action everywhere, especially in the kitchen. Also, 202 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: I can confirm that the periodically mentioned on the rayology 203 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: of cats is hilarious to rayologists in equals three sample 204 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: of three. I think thanks for the great show, Rafael. Ps. Unsurprisingly, 205 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm also a fan of Lauren and Annie over at Savor. 206 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: Everyone should go listen to them too. So yes, thank 207 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: you for the message, Rafael, and absolutely people should go 208 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: check out Savor. That is a podcast hosted by our 209 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 1: friends Lauren Vogelbaum and Annie Reese and it's a wonderful 210 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: home for food nerds everywhere. Again, it is called Savor 211 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: s A v O R. You can find it wherever 212 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Tell him we sent you. Okay, 213 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: This next message about Tea comes from Stephanie. Stephanie says, Hello, 214 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: I was listening to the first episode on t and 215 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: you've got about nine of the way to explaining one 216 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: of my favorite facts about tea. In English, the word 217 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: tea can refer to all sorts of beverages, including those 218 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: made with Camillia senensis, but also herbal teas and other 219 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: usually hot steeped beverages. The French language differentiates between unta 220 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: rhymes with bay made with Camillia senensis and untizan made 221 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: with other plants. The lack of this easy distinction in 222 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: English can definitely cause some confusion. Interestingly, French also differentiates 223 00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:01,719 Speaker 1: between caffeine and teen or I think in English, I've 224 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: heard it pronounced theene, but tayene or theene the caffeine 225 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: found in Camilia senensis in common parlance. At least that 226 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: distinction is made in the Quebec dialect of my husband 227 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: and in laws. I had wrongly assumed that this was 228 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: another example of French being more precise about tea related 229 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: vocabulary than English, and thought there were two different chemicals, 230 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: caffeine and taine. I only realized through listening to your 231 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: episode that they are in fact the same compound, despite 232 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: the different names. I also learned today the English word theene, 233 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: which means the same as the French one, but which 234 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: I had never heard before despite being an avid drinker 235 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: of teas and tissan's. Thanks for always expanding my knowledge 236 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: and my concept of what stuff can be fascinating. Stephanie, 237 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, Stephanie. Okay, this next message is from Andreas. 238 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: Andrea said, Dear Robert, Dear Joe, I'm a longtime listener 239 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: and currently very much enjoying your episodes about te I 240 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: write in to tell you a little bit about a 241 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: t tradition in Germany, especially in the region called East Frisia. 242 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: Even though I live around two hours removed from that area, 243 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: several vacations there made me really appreciate the fine drink 244 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: called post freeze and tea. It is a quite strong 245 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: blend of black teas, almost exclusively a psalm tea, and 246 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: it never fails to pick me up on those gray 247 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: and rainy days. There is a special ritual to drink it. 248 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: I copied a text from a German website of one 249 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: of the traditional suppliers of the tea and ran it 250 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: through an Ai translation for you to enjoy. Thanks for 251 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: all the great content. I hope you will do this forever. 252 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: Regards Andreas. Okay, so this is how you make the 253 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: post freeze and tea, at least as mediated through an 254 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: AI translator. It says placed the loose tea leaves in 255 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: a well preheated pot of fresh boiling water so that 256 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: they are covered. Allowed the tea to steep for three 257 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: to five minutes, preferably in a kettle or teapot. Then 258 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: fill the fragrant infusion with the remaining water. It is 259 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: best to pour the finished teeth through a strainer into 260 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: a preheated serving pot and keep it warm on a 261 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: tea warmer. Now comes the pleasure in the cup, as 262 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: East Frisians love it. First, a cluntia, a white sugar candy, 263 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: is placed in the cup. When the hot tea is 264 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: poured over it, the rock candy crackles, creating anticipation and 265 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: giving the tea a fine sweetness as it melts. A 266 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: few drops of fresh, high percentage cream, which is not 267 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: stirred in the East Frisian way, conjures up the famous vulcia, 268 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: the little cloud, which makes the enjoyment of the tea perfect. 269 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: The cream is added to the tea counterclockwise to symbolically 270 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: stop time. That's nice. East Frisian connoisseurs divide the unstirred 271 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: experience in to three phases. The first sip of tea 272 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: with cream is followed by the second sip of tea 273 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 1: with cream. Something might have been lost in translation there. 274 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm not sure which completes the three tiered pleasure with 275 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: the sweet finish. It offers the courtesy to enjoy at 276 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: least three cups, which is why it is not called 277 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: for nothing. Dree u dree dry dree st uh ost 278 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: Friesian wrecked or three is East Frisian right, It's better 279 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: by a country mile. The small teaspoon is only used 280 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: to signal to the host after the tea has been 281 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: poured into the cup that you do not want any more. 282 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: So thanks for sharing this, Andreas, and I've never heard 283 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 1: of this before I looked it up. I encourage everyone 284 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: to go look up images of East Friesian tea to 285 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: see the patterns left by the unstirred cream. That seems 286 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: to be the most interesting thing about it, the the 287 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: visual uh flower. Coming back to the how the appearance 288 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: of food affects the flavor, the appearance of the unstirred 289 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: cream dropped into the cup forms mostly beautiful but occasionally 290 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: disgusting shapes, and I only say, disgusting, because there are 291 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: some cases where it looks like maybe it's when there's 292 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: a bit more dribbling of individual drops. To me, this 293 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: has the unfortunate effect of looking like the spots that 294 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: form in a petrie dish when bacterial colonies are blooming, 295 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: especially when the you know, the translucence of the tea 296 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: naturally somewhat resembles an agar plate. But in most cases 297 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 1: this tea looks lovely. I think it's a nice variation 298 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: on that other beverage art tradition, the designs that people 299 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: make in latte foam. So if latte foam is a 300 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 1: bit more controlled, a bit more representative, maybe making a 301 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 1: hard or a cat face or whatever, the East Frisian 302 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: tea is a bit more abstract. It's kind of fractal, 303 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: an emergent, but very cool. Thank you, Andreas. Okay. I 304 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: think we're gonna finish up to day with a message 305 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: about weird House cinema. This one comes from Pat and 306 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: it's in response to our Weird House Cinema episode on 307 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: let Sleeping corpses Lie, which was the nineteen seventy four 308 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: Italian Spanish horror movie about how science is bad and 309 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: if we don't kill Science once and for all, it 310 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: will inevitably raise the dead from their graves with ultrasonic radiation. Uh. 311 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: This movie was a real hoot to cover, and one 312 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: thing we discovered in that episode was this movie has 313 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 1: a very long list of alternate titles. One was let 314 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: Sleeping corpses Lie, which is okay, but others were things 315 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: like the Living Dead Manchester Morgue, which is strange because 316 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: the movie does not take place at a Manchester morgue, 317 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: though I think some scenes were shot at a Manchester 318 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: adjacent morgue or hospital. Uh. And finally, there was one 319 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: title of the movie which was Don't Open the Window, 320 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: which as far as we could tell, has absolutely nothing 321 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: to do with the film at all. A onto the message, 322 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: Pat says Robert Joe. The last Weird House was a 323 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: good one. I'll have to see this one. You guys 324 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: talked about the strangeness of one of the release titles, 325 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: don't Open the Window. Seems that this phrase is idiomatic 326 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: in Spanish and means quote to bring something to light. 327 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: It seems the title suggests that the enemy Science is 328 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: invoked and leads to horror. Thanks for all the fun, Pat, 329 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: Pat I've never heard that idiom before. I tried to 330 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: kind of look it up and didn't find much. But 331 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: I believe you other Spanish speakers in the audience please 332 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: right in about that. What's the deal with with opening 333 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: the window? Is science opening the window of knowledge? And 334 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: thus according to this movie, uh, you know, don't open 335 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: the window, like don't don't do those experiments. I'm not sure, 336 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: but despite never hearing that one, I do know of 337 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: a a window idiom in Spanish which is tire lacasa 338 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: poor love antana, which basically means uh to well, literally 339 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: it means to throw the house out the window, and 340 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,440 Speaker 1: from what I understand, this means like to go all out, 341 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: as we say in English, to spend a lot of 342 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: money on something, to spare no expense. That's a really 343 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: good one. Okay, I think that does it for the 344 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: mail bag today. Just a reminder that we will be 345 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: running Vault episodes this week and Tuesday of next week 346 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: while Rob and I are out. But I should be 347 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: back with a new Listener mail episode on Monday, and 348 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: then we will have more new episodes for you that week, 349 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: probably on Wednesday, March one. In the meantime, if you're 350 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: new here, this is the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast. 351 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:46,199 Speaker 1: Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts uh we. We 352 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: do different episodes throughout the week. Our core episodes publish 353 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Thursday. Those are most often about science 354 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: in one way or another, but we like to jump 355 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: across disciplines. On Monday's we read back listener mail in 356 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: episodes like this one, though usually my co host Robert 357 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: Lamb is here with me. On Wednesdays we do a 358 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: short form scripted episode called The Artifact or the Monster Fact. 359 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: And then on Friday's, when the week is done, it's 360 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: time for Weird House Cinema, which is an episode where 361 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: Rob and I feature and discuss a weird movie. They 362 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: can be good, they can be bad, they can be classic, 363 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: they can be obscure. All movies are fair game as 364 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: long as they are weird. And then, finally, on Saturday's 365 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: we uh we highlight an episode from the vault from 366 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: the olden days uh Big thanks to our audio producer 367 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: J J. Pauseway. If you would like to get in 368 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 369 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 370 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at Stuff 371 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind dot com Stuff to Blow your Mind. 372 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: It's a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 373 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 374 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.