1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:25,239
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.

6
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.

7
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,040
Speaker 4: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

8
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,919
Speaker 4: super producer called Mission Controlled Decant. Most importantly, you are you.

9
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 4: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they

10
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 4: don't want you to know. Tonight, we're going to do

11
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 4: something a little bit different to demonstration for the class.

12
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 4: You could say. Our fellow conspiracy realist from around the

13
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 4: world write in constantly with stories of local legends, regional folklore,

14
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 4: ghost and so on. And each of these tales is

15
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,760
Speaker 4: a unique product of those communities in which those tales exist,

16
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,120
Speaker 4: but they all have several key things in common. And

17
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,120
Speaker 4: I don't know about you, guys, there's been something on

18
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 4: my mind for a long time. I'm quite excited we

19
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,919
Speaker 4: can do this. If these things have commonalities, that means

20
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,920
Speaker 4: they can, for lack of a better word, be hacked,

21
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,160
Speaker 4: be emulated, and that's what we're exploring tonight. But first,

22
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,240
Speaker 4: here are the facts. What is an urban legend. It's

23
00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:28,959
Speaker 4: kind of a misleading term, I think.

24
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I guess when you add.

25
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 5: The word urban to it, I think it implies it

26
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,360
Speaker 5: happens in like neighborhoods or in places where people live,

27
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 5: and it becomes sort of a oral tradition of that region,

28
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 5: you know. So, I mean, it's not that far off

29
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 5: from just regular old myths and legends, but I think

30
00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,840
Speaker 5: when you attach urban to it, it sort of modernizes

31
00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 5: it a little bit, right, It sort of puts it

32
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 5: a little bit more in the context. And often it

33
00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 5: involves like murder and acts most foul.

34
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:07,080
Speaker 2: Usually cautionary tales. Yeah, But ultimately it's a story, right, Yes.

35
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 2: An urban legend is a story that somebody told once

36
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 2: or maybe it really happened, maybe it didn't. But as

37
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 2: the receiver of that legend or that myth or that story,

38
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 2: often you don't know if it's true or not, but

39
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 2: there's almost a common belief that it could be true.

40
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah, man. And I think part of

41
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 4: why urban legend as a term has become a little

42
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 4: misleading is unfortunately due to the fact that in the West,

43
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 4: for some time, politicians started using urban as a racist

44
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 4: dog whistle. This has nothing to do with that. You can,

45
00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:49,320
Speaker 4: as a matter of fact, you can just use the

46
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 4: phrase modern legend and it'll still get you there. Yeah,

47
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 4: there was about the suburbs.

48
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 3: Let's not forget about the suburban legends.

49
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,120
Speaker 5: You know, these things happen in gated communities, do right.

50
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, and think about the word myth. When we're

51
00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,040
Speaker 2: growing up in public school or pa even private school,

52
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 2: we hear the word myth associated often with Greek and

53
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,760
Speaker 2: Roman mythology. First, all right, right, that's a for sure

54
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,240
Speaker 2: we encounter it and too you know often if you're

55
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 2: in the US or if you're in a Western country,

56
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,920
Speaker 2: that's treated as myth like, oh, those are just the

57
00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 2: stories you know that we're told back then and all

58
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 2: of that. But remember there are temples built based on

59
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 2: the characters within those myths. Sure, you know it's it's

60
00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 2: not for people growing up in ancient Greece. It's much

61
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,720
Speaker 2: less of the way you probably think about a myth

62
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 2: and what a myth is.

63
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 4: Humans have always loved merchandising. That's just step space franchise. Right, Yeah,

64
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 4: so there are okay, so there are a few key

65
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 4: differences we want to unpack before we get to the

66
00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 4: really fun stuff, all right. Myths, regular old legends, urban

67
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,880
Speaker 4: life legends, modern legends. What's the difference? Where's the beef? Myths,

68
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 4: Like you said, Matt, are stories. There's some of the

69
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:13,040
Speaker 4: earliest narrative technology. It passes through generations and they're all

70
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 4: the old stuff, and they're all attempting to explain how

71
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 4: stuff works and why it happens. Why does the sunrise,

72
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 4: why are their eclipses? What are seasons? Why do those happen?

73
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,720
Speaker 4: Their origin stories. That's essentially every myth is an explanation,

74
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,279
Speaker 4: an origin story. They're usually called analogies or allegories. Fables

75
00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,760
Speaker 4: are related. They take non human things or fictional characters,

76
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:45,200
Speaker 4: and they just sort of reframe observations. Legends, though, aren't

77
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 4: just origin stories. They can be a little bit, but

78
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 4: they're primarily meant to teach a lesson, sometimes a really

79
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 4: good one, a really nice happy one, sometimes a cautionary tale,

80
00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,159
Speaker 4: and sometimes they're an anecdote. But they always have at

81
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,599
Speaker 4: least one true thing involved a real person, a real place,

82
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:10,039
Speaker 4: real events, and the facts about that are dramatically altered

83
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 4: to convey a point. So legends are grounded in reality

84
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 4: but are not necessarily true and urban legends. Therefore, I

85
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 4: posit they're a form of what we could call creative history,

86
00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 4: like creative writing.

87
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:27,279
Speaker 5: Sure, speaking of creative writing, I would argue that without

88
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,000
Speaker 5: these urban legends, we wouldn't have the explosion of found

89
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,839
Speaker 5: footage horror films, you know, and like things like the

90
00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 5: blair Witch Project, you know, which really relied on the

91
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 5: fact that people thought that it was real, that it

92
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 5: was you know, footage that had been actually found. It's

93
00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,919
Speaker 5: the name of the genre, and that really led to

94
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,560
Speaker 5: the kind of initial groundswell of support for that movie.

95
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,560
Speaker 5: And then even once people realized it wasn't, it was

96
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 5: still a fine film and a real good horror thing.

97
00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,400
Speaker 5: But that, I would argue, kind of combines urban legend,

98
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 5: because the urban legend of that story is that these

99
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 5: filmmakers disappeared, right, But then the legend is the blair

100
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 5: Witch part.

101
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,520
Speaker 3: So it sort of combines these two.

102
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 5: Oftentimes these stories do there'll be some aspect of supernatural

103
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,040
Speaker 5: horror that is kind of more of a legend or

104
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 5: a myth, and then the urban part is sort of

105
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 5: modernizing it and making it like able to be touched,

106
00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 5: you know, by modern individuals, where it's like this is

107
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 5: close to home.

108
00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that's an astute observation. We're going

109
00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 4: to dive into that in a few minutes, like, Okay,

110
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 4: here's what we need to know. The tricky thing about

111
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,159
Speaker 4: these sort of categories is there much more of a

112
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 4: spectrum than they are distinct, discrete buckets of thought. What

113
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 4: does modern mean? After all? The meaning of modern changes

114
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 4: with every generation because they have new stuff that's modern.

115
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,719
Speaker 4: That's why terms, at least in my opinion, terms like

116
00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 4: postmodern literature are intellectually fraudulent. It doesn't make sense. It's

117
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,040
Speaker 4: post what post what is it?

118
00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 5: Pst ironic is one of my favorites, so that is

119
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 5: after post You know.

120
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 4: So, the first time urban urban legend appears in print

121
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,280
Speaker 4: is in nineteen sixty eight. There's a guy we've mentioned

122
00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,120
Speaker 4: on the show previously in our La You Ana episode,

123
00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 4: Richard Dorson. And for decades, this is something you wouldn't

124
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 4: really care about unless you were in a class with

125
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,280
Speaker 4: a folklore professor, or you know, you were studying for

126
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,160
Speaker 4: a test. A ton of people in your town in

127
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 4: the sixties, they might know a story about how the

128
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 4: local bridge or cemetery or other liminal space is haunted

129
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 4: by a lady in white, for example. But they're not

130
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 4: going to say, oh, I know what that's called. That's

131
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 4: an urban legend. They won't say that until almost two

132
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 4: decades later in the eighties, another guy, Jah and Harold

133
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 4: Brunwald writes a book called The Vanishing Hitchhiker American and

134
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 4: Urban Legends and their Meanings, and this stuff is, I mean,

135
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 4: you're not going to hear about it, but it's very

136
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 4: important to the modern world because their research directly informs

137
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 4: what we call conspiracy theories today. And they Bruval makes

138
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 4: two very big points, very important points, says, Look, first off,

139
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 4: get off your high horse, modern Westerners. Legends don't only

140
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:27,000
Speaker 4: occur in primitive societies. They're here with you today, and

141
00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 4: you might believe a few of them yourself. As a

142
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 4: matter of fact, you probably do all of us listening

143
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 4: and recording the show this evening. There are probably things

144
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,160
Speaker 4: that we have taken to be historical fact that are

145
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,719
Speaker 4: simply legends, you know, like George Washington.

146
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Presidents, the folklore that we have

147
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,520
Speaker 2: around our early American presidents, even later American presidents, it was.

148
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 2: And again there's a use for it. There's a reason.

149
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 2: If you want to be a big, powerful country with

150
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,600
Speaker 2: a lot of human beings that follow the leaders of

151
00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 2: that country, you do things like make them say the

152
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 2: Pledge of allegiance and feed them stories about the great

153
00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 2: powerful leaders that are almost deified. You know, who created

154
00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 2: this wonderful, glorious thing that you now get to live in,

155
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,000
Speaker 2: that you get to serve.

156
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 4: You should be so lucky. And it also unifies people,

157
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 4: right in a common experience, unifies wildly different demographics of people.

158
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,080
Speaker 4: That's one thing that the US has been actually pretty

159
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,200
Speaker 4: great at in comparison to other civilizations, you know what

160
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,839
Speaker 4: I mean, pretty great by comparison, not by objective measure, just.

161
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:39,720
Speaker 3: To be very clear.

162
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 5: Well, and it's funny how the term like oral tradition

163
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,160
Speaker 5: and like urban legend, all this stuff gets thrown around,

164
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,560
Speaker 5: but in a way it can be a stand in

165
00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,160
Speaker 5: for things like propaganda or just outright lies, because if

166
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 5: we have no real source material or no real way

167
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 5: to verify these things, then anybody can add anything they

168
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 5: want to them to make the serve their purposes.

169
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,320
Speaker 4: Right, yes, just so.

170
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,080
Speaker 3: I mean.

171
00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,079
Speaker 4: The other thing is the other big point that Brumwald

172
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 4: makes is that studying these stories gives us this powerful

173
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,960
Speaker 4: opportunity to learn about the modern culture from whence these

174
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,440
Speaker 4: narratives spring, You know what I mean? You see this

175
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 4: in our book that we released a little while back,

176
00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:27,640
Speaker 4: where we explore how conspiracies and conspiracy theories proliferate. And

177
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 4: urban legends are quite similar in this regard. They explain

178
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,160
Speaker 4: things about the world. They connect dots. They synthesize your

179
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:42,560
Speaker 4: individual perspective into a larger common experience. But urban legends

180
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 4: are different from the old technology because they operate off fear.

181
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 4: Pretty much every form of a modern like an urban legend,

182
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,479
Speaker 4: includes an element of disgust or fright or shock value.

183
00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,199
Speaker 4: And then the teenagers found a hook on the side

184
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 4: of the car, you know, stuff like that. They warn

185
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 4: you not to do something, and they seem somehow authoritative

186
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,920
Speaker 4: when they warn you about this, and they I feel

187
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 4: like at that point we have to say they're not

188
00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:18,199
Speaker 4: made out of malevolence. People aren't purposely trying to hurt you.

189
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 4: They're not purposely trying to just scare you for sadistic kicks.

190
00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,080
Speaker 4: They come about because people play the game of telephone. Right,

191
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,240
Speaker 4: a friend of a friend knows someone whose cousin once

192
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 4: went to a school where et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

193
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,400
Speaker 4: It's crowdsourced writing. When you think about it, it's like

194
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 4: that surrealist game we sometimes play, exquisite Corpse, where people

195
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,840
Speaker 4: write a line of a story at a time. You know, yeah,

196
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:41,840
Speaker 4: we've all played cards.

197
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,520
Speaker 2: It's also an exercise in creativity, especially young creativity. And

198
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,640
Speaker 2: you know, you think there's a reason why there's a

199
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 2: term campfire stories or campfire tales, and it is because

200
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 2: there are things like summer camps that a bunch of

201
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 2: kids go to, and there's a common experience at those

202
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 2: summer camps, often where there's a campfire and people are

203
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 2: hanging around telling stories, trying to scare each other for fun,

204
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 2: and it's real and it's it could just be some

205
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,160
Speaker 2: of these urban legends could just be a single kid

206
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,440
Speaker 2: that had some creepy ideas creep into their head and

207
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 2: just went, hey, you.

208
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,000
Speaker 3: Know what if I said.

209
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 4: It like this and spit flames by the campfire there. Yeah,

210
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,240
Speaker 4: And also there's an interesting psychological note and it's not

211
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,480
Speaker 4: entirely ethical, but part of the reason why campfire stories,

212
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,560
Speaker 4: especially scary ones, are so popular is because when you

213
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,319
Speaker 4: are scared in a group, when you are experiencing heightened heartbeat,

214
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 4: when you're getting those fear adrenaline rushes of chemicals in

215
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 4: your brain, you associate the people in your environment with

216
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,319
Speaker 4: excitement of some sort. That's the reason why you'll hear

217
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:03,080
Speaker 4: some unethical folks say scary movies are a great date idea,

218
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 4: amusement parks and roller coasters. It's because that science is true. Now,

219
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 4: of course, there's not like a bunch of boy scouts

220
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 4: are like, I'm going to form a lifelong bond with

221
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,040
Speaker 4: these people by telling them about a death car.

222
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 3: I would imprint upon them. Yes, yeah, it's not quite

223
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,079
Speaker 3: like that.

224
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 4: It's not that insidious.

225
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:29,000
Speaker 2: But unless your scout leader is Dennis Raider, right right, right, Yeah.

226
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

227
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,200
Speaker 4: I don't know if that guy was smart enough to

228
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 4: do that. You know. Anyway, it's the serial killers buy

229
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,840
Speaker 4: a larger or not intelligent entities. So this is all

230
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,440
Speaker 4: well and good and it makes sense, but it leads

231
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 4: us to the bigger question. Tonight's question. All right, given

232
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,000
Speaker 4: that all that is true, and it is, can you

233
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 4: make your own stories? Can you purposely design and spread

234
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 4: an urban legend? That stands the test of time and

235
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,679
Speaker 4: becomes part of the culture. We'll tell you after word

236
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:10,680
Speaker 4: from or sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Absolutely, yeah,

237
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,640
Speaker 4: absolutely can't. It's probably, in fact, it's probably easier now

238
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,640
Speaker 4: than at almost any point in modern history, isn't it.

239
00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 3: No nuts out?

240
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's I mean think about it, like

241
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 5: you guys, ever mess with any of those creepypastas or whatever,

242
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,760
Speaker 5: you know, all these little stories that circulate around the

243
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,680
Speaker 5: Internet and various subreddits.

244
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what those are.

245
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 5: There are people making up stories that are rooted in

246
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 5: Internet culture and then get spread around by people making

247
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 5: remix videos or kind of rewriting them or repurposing them

248
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 5: or whatever. And the thing that I think is interesting

249
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,320
Speaker 5: too is we're living in a society where truth is

250
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 5: sort of irrelevant and in a certain sense, so it's

251
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 5: like we don't really care if they're true or not.

252
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 5: We just kind of act as though they maybe are,

253
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,400
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, And that's all that it

254
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,720
Speaker 5: takes to get some thing out of them.

255
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,080
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I don't know.

256
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 2: Well, no, you're right. You make a video series, a

257
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 2: single video, you make a roadblocks game, you do anything

258
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 2: like I think about the back rooms like exactly that

259
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,960
Speaker 2: that is a thing that is so ubiquitous now with kids.

260
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 2: I had to have a talk with my son, like

261
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 2: a pretty serious talk about how the back rooms aren't

262
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 2: a real thing. He was freaking out about it.

263
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,160
Speaker 3: It's this one guy, this creator who created this.

264
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,360
Speaker 5: Basically, I think it's kind of well done, simple CG

265
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 5: generated spaces that just kind of look like these abandoned offices,

266
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 5: and they'll be it's just like a spookfest. You're sort

267
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 5: of like a camera perspective that is you, I guess, right,

268
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:45,800
Speaker 5: Matt wandering through, and then there'll be a thing that

269
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 5: pops out.

270
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 4: Exactly first person POV.

271
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,200
Speaker 3: Well, it's not a game though, it's it's videos as well.

272
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 2: It's everything now, yeah, it's everything.

273
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,680
Speaker 3: And then into a film. It's being a feature film

274
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 3: by the original creator, but.

275
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 2: Prolifically tell me, I don't know, just the it's like

276
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 2: an imagine an infinite you know, empty office space in

277
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 2: a post apocalyptic time that just is like empty. It

278
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 2: looks as though people exist here or live here, but

279
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 2: it goes on forever. The hallways a little too long,

280
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 2: they are too many doors, you know. Oh, and you're okay,

281
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 2: and you're being pursued exactly exactly. It's it's all these

282
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 2: things together, but it's a very specific version of it

283
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 2: that has now become so widespread that there are these

284
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: things called the Rainbow Friends that are now associated with

285
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 2: the back room somehow, and it's just it's nuts.

286
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,720
Speaker 5: But it all came from one dude, one creator who

287
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 5: made up a story and now you're having talks with

288
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,800
Speaker 5: your kid about. But again, we also, maybe in the

289
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,880
Speaker 5: eighties had to have our parents had to have talks

290
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,800
Speaker 5: with us telling us that Freddy Krueger wasn't real?

291
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 3: So how is it different? I know that it is,

292
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 3: but I kind of want to dig into how.

293
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, so in that case, just learning about backrooms down

294
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,920
Speaker 4: thank you for the info there, Matt. It's in that

295
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 4: case it sounds like some people are being taken in,

296
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 4: especially younger people children, but adults by and large understand

297
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,119
Speaker 4: this is not true. I do want to shout out

298
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 4: the SCP article about the Endless IKEA. Check that one out.

299
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 4: That's really good crowdsource writing. And yeah, fatal Frame. If

300
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,800
Speaker 4: you want to hatch your own kind of conspiracy, if

301
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 4: you want to conspire to make an urban legend. We're

302
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 4: going to tell you what to do. The first step

303
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 4: is to find one true thing, and the more local

304
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 4: it is, the better an event, a place, a person

305
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,200
Speaker 4: bonus points. If you want to play clue and get

306
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,399
Speaker 4: a combination of all three, it needs to be something

307
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 4: people can immediately confirm on their own that one true

308
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 4: thing buys us the credibility we need for the rest

309
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 4: of the story. And that's why so many of those

310
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,680
Speaker 4: gruesome urban legends bear strong resemblance to real life incidents

311
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:51,159
Speaker 4: of crime.

312
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:51,479
Speaker 3: You know.

313
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,199
Speaker 4: But the next question, why does it need to be local?

314
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 4: It's a hack people feel included. Oh I know about that.

315
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,080
Speaker 4: I know a Pennyworth Street, I've been there. That building

316
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 4: is creepy. So, for instance, this is just a little

317
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 4: little hypothetical thing, no offense to the good people of Fairfield, Iowa.

318
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 4: But imagine the town with a population of under ten

319
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,360
Speaker 4: thousand people. If these folks in Fairfield, Iowa, they hear

320
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 4: a story about George Washington chopping down cherry trees and saying, oh, yeah,

321
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 4: you know, I just I'm bound by the truth. I

322
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 4: can't tell a lie. They'll just shrug, They'll say, okay, fine,

323
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,399
Speaker 4: he's dead. He never even lived here. But if you

324
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,439
Speaker 4: tell a story about the quote unquote original site of

325
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,360
Speaker 4: the Carnegie Library and Fairfield, Iowa as two Carnegie libraries,

326
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 4: or the true story of an early settler named Nancy Bonafield,

327
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 4: they'll become inherently more compelled. They're included. They know there's

328
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,479
Speaker 4: a Carnegie Library in town, they've seen it before. They

329
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 4: could drive by it right now. They can hop on

330
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,840
Speaker 4: the Internet, then go to the library and they can

331
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 4: read all about Nancy Bottomfield on their own. So it

332
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 4: feels true because part of it is, the part in

333
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 4: the front is true.

334
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: And then how do you get a bunch of other

335
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 2: readers on Reddit to be into it.

336
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's where we get to the interesting twist. We'll

337
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 4: get there in just a second.

338
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: But I guess they could also they could google the

339
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,120
Speaker 2: same things, right, and they could find out, oh, wait,

340
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 2: there really is you know that Carnegie library. Oh and

341
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 2: it says on here there was a different location, and

342
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 2: it all starts checking.

343
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:36,360
Speaker 4: Out, right, Yeah, it says there's a different location, or

344
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,920
Speaker 4: they can't. They can find that there's a Carnegie Library

345
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 4: in Fairfield, Iowa, but they can't learn much about the

346
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,439
Speaker 4: history of the land before that library was constructed, and

347
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 4: so now there's someone with an explanation. You want an event.

348
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,080
Speaker 4: The second big thing to know to your earlier point

349
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 4: about urban legends and murder, you want an event that

350
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 4: is something very bad, gruesome homicide always a classic that's

351
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 4: like the Kobe Bryant of urban legend evil. And you

352
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 4: want this threat importantly to be something that can be

353
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 4: avoided or engaged with through certain sets of actions. There

354
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 4: was another another thing you said earlier, Nola. I want

355
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,360
Speaker 4: to get back to the idea is supernatural. You have

356
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,479
Speaker 4: to decide at this point how supernatural you want your

357
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:26,119
Speaker 4: story to be.

358
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, I mean, and it really there's so

359
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 5: many different genres of these kinds of tales you mentioned

360
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 5: Matt early on the cautionary tale. I think those are

361
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 5: the ones that we remember and then they get reprinted

362
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 5: in books that you could buy at the book fair,

363
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,560
Speaker 5: like scary stories to tell in the dark. And there

364
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 5: were a bunch of other ones that really I can't remember.

365
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 5: They were really kind of gnarly, like they would have

366
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 5: the one about the guy with the hook hand and

367
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 5: the tapping and the blood dripping on the car and

368
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,640
Speaker 5: the foot scraping and all of that.

369
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 4: Stuff's got Mike Golden am that.

370
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 5: Then I remember there were a couple that had really

371
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 5: not not the classic scary stories tell in the dark

372
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 5: with those amazing pen and ink illustrations that will forever

373
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 5: haunt all of our waking moments, but there was a

374
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 5: series of these ones with like this kind of crypt

375
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 5: keeper weird freak that was on the cover looked like

376
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 5: kind of like a weird degenerate Methy serial killer guy.

377
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm the only one that remembers these. There were

378
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 3: a bunch, and.

379
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 5: They were all less rooted in supernatural stuff and more

380
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 5: rooted in like stranger danger kind of stuff, and you

381
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 5: could buy them at these book fairs, and I did,

382
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 5: and I think it really messed me up. Man. I

383
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 5: read a bunch of them, and they were really popular.

384
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 5: Of course, those are the ones that the kids want

385
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 5: to read. But I also think that they kind of

386
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 5: slipped under the radar and they probably shouldn't have been

387
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 5: as available because it really does kind of mess you

388
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 5: up a little bit and make you kind of scared

389
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 5: of everybody.

390
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 4: I'm on the fence about it, because, as you know,

391
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 4: a life lifelong or deathlog fan of horror, I think

392
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 4: that's some of the most valuable stuff that CA can read, right.

393
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 5: I just mean I remember these being quite trashy and

394
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 5: not particularly helpful, and so not particularly creative.

395
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 3: They're not Stephen King's stories. They're not well written. These

396
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,919
Speaker 3: were like pulp books for preteens, you know.

397
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 4: And there's also you know, there's that moment when you're

398
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 4: a kid, you're reading a scary book and it crosses

399
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 4: some social taboo line, some social mora and you actually

400
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 4: look up and look around, like, oh, is anybody gonna

401
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 4: see I'm reading this? I think that's an amazing moment.

402
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 4: But with the construction of these legends to the point

403
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 4: of moving beyond the realm of the supernatural into the secular,

404
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 4: that's a real tendency in older evenings. A lot of

405
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 4: these legends were somewhat supernatural in nature inherently because they

406
00:22:54,680 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 4: descended directly from previously accepted stories about ghost monsters and cryptids,

407
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 4: non human spirits, and you know, ultimately those old myths.

408
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: But today we're hearing stuff about secular fears. Like here's

409
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 4: an example. Let's say we're starting one of the we're

410
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 4: conspiring to make an urban legend in Fairfield Iowa in

411
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 4: the nineteen forties. We might spin a yarn about ghost

412
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 4: from the underground Railroad because the underground railroad was a

413
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 4: stop in Fairfield, Iowa. Or we might say something about

414
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 4: cannibalism in the pioneer days because there were pioneers and

415
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: settlers who founded a modern day Fairfield, Iowa. Maybe there's

416
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 4: a massacre at the side of the library. Maybe it

417
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 4: was covered up, but we get a lot more mileage

418
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 4: in modern days if our cover up addresses modern concerns

419
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 4: and fears. Maybe instead of a massacre, that library is

420
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 4: the site of environmental contamination a huge amount of lead,

421
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 4: and that leads to insanity over time, right, according to

422
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 4: the lead theory. And so maybe that contamination of lead

423
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: on that site l to led to it could explain

424
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: any number of unfortunate events that occurred in the town later.

425
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 4: I think that would work right one volume. Maybe we've

426
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 4: fallen for it in the past, but I mean think

427
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 4: about it, like, Okay, we have all through different shows,

428
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 4: not just stuff they want you to know, but in

429
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 4: our work as executive producers on any other number of shows,

430
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 4: we've dug into local crime, right, and a lot of

431
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 4: these crimes are things you might not have heard about

432
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,479
Speaker 4: unless you were purposely digging for them. And when you

433
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 4: go to crimes in smaller towns, what you'll see is

434
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 4: there are all sorts of things that can look like connections.

435
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 4: Everybody knows the Carnegie Library, and when crime happens, odds

436
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 4: are are therefore that someone who is a victim of

437
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 4: a crime, a witness of a crime, or the committer

438
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 4: of a crime will have been by the library. They

439
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 4: will have seen it. They may have some sort of

440
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 4: tenuous association. And now that we've reframed that as a

441
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 4: key piece of the story, those coincidental associations have a

442
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 4: new terrifying relevance. The killer didn't just happen to go

443
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: to the library in school. Going to the library made

444
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 4: them a killer, very dangerous, very tricky, very subtle.

445
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: Well, and I mean, you know, all of this dating

446
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: back to.

447
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 5: The Greek mythology and all that stuff, and even certain

448
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 5: religious parables, they're teachable moments. Everyone wants to know why

449
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 5: things happen, you know, why things in natural processes happen,

450
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: why people.

451
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: Are the way they are.

452
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 5: You know, I love what Neil Gaiman does with myth

453
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 5: and you know, with American gods for example, or a

454
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 5: Nancy Boy is where he takes kind of the African

455
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 5: myths of like the Spider God and all of that

456
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 5: stuff and personifies them and turns them into kind of

457
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 5: superhero type characters.

458
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: I think all that's really creatives too.

459
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, these urban legends

460
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 5: accomplish the same stuff as those things did. They're a

461
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 5: way to kind of demystify the world to a certain degree,

462
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 5: well somehow mystifying it more. It's very confusing, but it's

463
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 5: very interesting phenomenon.

464
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:28,399
Speaker 2: M M.

465
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

466
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 4: It exploits that, it exploits that cognitive mechanism that all

467
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 4: humans have. I mean, in third, you want to appear

468
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 4: to empower people, right, you want to have a lesson,

469
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: because all legends are a lesson. Right, So you want

470
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: to know you want the audience to know, or we

471
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 4: want the audience to know how to avoid, engage with

472
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: or confirm the threat is where specifics become the secret sauce.

473
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 4: And this is this is a little bit of styling it.

474
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: But why don't we continue that Fairfield example and then Matt,

475
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 4: maybe we can explore one of your examples too, because

476
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 4: I think you wrote something special for this.

477
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well there's a story I got to tell

478
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: you guys at some point, all right, right.

479
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 4: Therefore it yeah, and we'll be able to see how

480
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: our process here jives up with it. So going back

481
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 4: to Fairfield, let's say we go supernatural. How do we

482
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: know the ghost from the underground railroad are still around today? Well,

483
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 4: it turns out every May fourteenth, on the anniversary of

484
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: some murders that were completely covered up by authorities, you

485
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: can see their lanterns out there in the dark, right

486
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 4: around midnight. You can hear their voices calling out from

487
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: beyond the grave. But only on May fourteenth. Giving this

488
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 4: specific date does something mission critical. We are giving the

489
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 4: audience a set of actions they may or may not

490
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 4: choose to pursue. And that's all well and good, you

491
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 4: know what I mean. That's the basic cooking. That's setting

492
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 4: the oven and getting your misimplaus or whatever. The next

493
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 4: part is the trickiest. This is where we get past

494
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 4: the science of story technology. We start swimming into the

495
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 4: curious waters of propaganda as art. Let's talk about spreading

496
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 4: the seat. The important thing we have to realize is

497
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 4: back in the day, even in the current evenings, urban

498
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 4: legends do not work when it seems like only one

499
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 4: person is telling the tale, They'll be treated like they're

500
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 4: just are to fiction, you know what I mean, Like

501
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 4: some of those subredits and creepy pastas, they're clearly just

502
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 4: meant to be scary stories. And there's a definite fourth wall.

503
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 4: There's a line between those tales and lived experience. But

504
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: if you have multiple sources saying the same thing on

505
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: multiple platforms, and you do it right, then people will

506
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: increase assume it is the truth.

507
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 5: Can I just say I did find these books that

508
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 5: I've been from my childhood. No, it's it's called the

509
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 5: Scariest Stories You've Ever Heard. There are three editions. The

510
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 5: first is by Mark Mills, the second by Katherin Burdon,

511
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 5: the third by Tracy E.

512
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: Dills. But they all have these weirdo dudes on the cover.

513
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 5: There's cryptkeeper style, and the very first story in the

514
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: first edition is called The Horrible Hook. And every single

515
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: one of these is.

516
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 3: Like murdery and about like getting killed by some creep.

517
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 5: There's one called The dog Man, you know, the Night

518
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 5: of the Okay, maybe there are some, there's the Night

519
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 5: of the Sasquatch, but most of them were like about

520
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 5: just you know, home invaders and like kidnappers and things

521
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 5: like that, and I remember these distinctly, and they that's

522
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: exactly what we're talking about.

523
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 4: And going back to this point about multiple platforms and

524
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 4: multiple voices, one key aspect here is that those tales

525
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: cannot appear one hundred percent redundant mm hmm. It cannot

526
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 4: appear to be a copy and paste. The different versions

527
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 4: out there have to have the same rough events, but

528
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: they cannot be word for word unless there's a catchphrase,

529
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 4: which is, you know, a little more advanced form of

530
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: this kind of conspiracy. And that's because if it's true folklore,

531
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 4: people are going to be you know, functionally, they're eyewitnesses.

532
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: They're going to get things wrong. They're going to tell

533
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 4: a story about a story, and they're going to put

534
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,719
Speaker 4: their own spins or their own agendas on that, on

535
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 4: the bones of that thing, on the beginning anatomy, the blueprint.

536
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: And you see this, I think most often or pretty

537
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 4: often in the details of the call to authority and

538
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: then the specifics of whatever the terrible event is. I

539
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 4: think that's how it works.

540
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: It sounds correct to me, Well.

541
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 4: Why why then, Well, Okay, let's talk what is call

542
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 4: to authority? What do we mean when we say that

543
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: You hear that when you study rhetoric as well, right.

544
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's just the idea or there's

545
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 5: like a component of the story where the storyteller gives

546
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 5: a sense of authenticity to their recounting of whatever this

547
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 5: thing is, you know, the idea of some sort of source.

548
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 5: You know that that is that is real and that

549
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 5: is to be believed.

550
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Yeah, it's the part of the story. It's

551
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 4: usually at the end or the beginning where they say,

552
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: look this, this is how I Yeah. Usually it's one,

553
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 4: but it's one or the other. Yeah, and it can

554
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: be both. You can add more to it. You have

555
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 4: to be careful because if you do too much, you'll

556
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: give yourself away. So in this part, at the beginning

557
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 4: of the end, the storyteller will give you you know,

558
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 4: here's how I heard about this, or they'll end with

559
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 4: some you know, some version of like don't take my

560
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 4: word for it, you know what I mean. I'm just

561
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 4: I'm just letting you know. May fourteenth, m M. Don't

562
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 4: go around the library late. For example, like at the beginning,

563
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 4: it would be something like oh gosh, we wrote these.

564
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 4: We wrote these weird example quotes. Since these are made

565
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 4: up people, does someone want to do some of the

566
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 4: quotes in a voice like a cool urban legend voice.

567
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 4: That's like, maybe, uh.

568
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 6: Carnegie Library man, that place gives me the willies. Let

569
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 6: me do it like a cool guy, Kip Conegie library man,

570
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 6: that please gives me the wheelies. Back in middle school,

571
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 6: I remember that kid in the classroom across the hall

572
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 6: this bit parents left town, but after everyone said he'd

573
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 6: gone out to the library on midnight May and you

574
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 6: know what that means?

575
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 3: Am I right?

576
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 5: Bro, I don't know what I did there, but that

577
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 5: got great and I got to the end of.

578
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: That was great.

579
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 4: That's from a conversation with high school sophomores, maybe talking

580
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 4: about yes, yeah, or in the end there might be

581
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 4: something with it. Sounds crazy, right, No one really talks

582
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: about it these days, but look it up. Fairfield was

583
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 4: a stop on the underground railroad and May fourteenth isn't

584
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 4: that far away, you know? And then cuge cheesy music, right,

585
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 4: maybe a Rod Serling voice. Okay, so we've got these

586
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 4: different stories, and we've got slightly different versions of the story.

587
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: Beats now and this is what you're asking about, Matt.

588
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 4: Now we need to put those in different places. Funnily enough,

589
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 4: the rise of the Internet should have made the world

590
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 4: way more accurate, should have made it way safer for everyone.

591
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 4: But instead it made things much worse. It exacerbated the

592
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 4: rise of unverified and unverifiable claims. So you want to

593
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 4: exploit those vulnerabilities. You want to hit local forums. You

594
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 4: want to wait until it depends on like depend on

595
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 4: what date you pick, it doesn't really matter. You want

596
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 4: to wait until it's about a month before Halloween, or

597
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 4: maybe it's early October, and then you go into the

598
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: community pages on Facebook for your neighborhood, right and go

599
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 4: into God sadly, you could gird yourself and go into

600
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: next store, But that place is pnemonium. Have you ever

601
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 4: read next Door you guys?

602
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,839
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's a fear mongering machine. Do you agree? Yeah?

603
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 4: I think it would work. It's also everybody there is

604
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: so angry all the time. I don't know what happened.

605
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: Or they want to sell you things, or they need help,

606
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, with a project in their house. I don't

607
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: know's I think next door in the suburbs, guys, is

608
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 2: a little different than next door in like ITP.

609
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 3: Well, that's where the suburban legends come in. Guys. I've

610
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: been screaming about that from the start. They get these too.

611
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 5: No I'm joking, but you know, these communities, it all

612
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 5: is exacerbated and exponentially increased and muddled by the Internet,

613
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 5: you know. And that's the Internet's a great place for

614
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 5: busybodies and a lot of times that is where these

615
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 5: types of things start. And you know who else does

616
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 5: this kind of stuff? Donald Trump, of course, who is

617
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 5: just here in Atlanta? You're getting fingerprinted and mugshot and

618
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: all that he tweeted or whatever he does.

619
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: Truth, Atlanta is.

620
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: A terrible, degenerate place full of murder in the streets,

621
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,240
Speaker 5: where people won't go outside to buy a loaf of bread.

622
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 5: That's an urban legend. It's just not true. We go

623
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: buy bread all the time, we go outside. But when

624
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 5: you simplify things down to such a you know, an

625
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 5: absurdly oversimplified way of presenting something, that's kind of what

626
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 5: that is.

627
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you also want to hit specific subreddits for

628
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 4: related things or specific forms for related things, but you

629
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 4: don't necessarily want them a to be related. The more

630
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 4: tangentially related. These forms are actually raises your chances of success,

631
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 4: and it makes your mental contagion more likely to transmit.

632
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 4: So go like if you think about redeed or dig

633
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 4: back in the day, any kind of those community bulletin

634
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 4: board descended things. Go to the one about ghost tell

635
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 4: a ghost story, go to the one about lead poisoning,

636
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 4: tell a lead poisoning story, go to an unsolved mysteries one,

637
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 4: and just say, hey, I heard this. Isn't this weird?

638
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 4: Has anyone else heard this? And then you're further empowering

639
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 4: people to investigate the thing. And if you do it right,

640
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 4: their investigations are going to lead them to some other

641
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 4: version of the story that you wrote somewhere else. And

642
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 4: like Jamie Madros the multiple man in Marvel Universe, now

643
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: you are an army that agrees.

644
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 5: So that's fascinating. I didn't even think about that. It's

645
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 5: like breadcrumbs leading back to the same loaf.

646
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 3: I don't know.

647
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 4: No, let's keep the bread thing going. And so so

648
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 4: there's a there's a key aspect to this that a

649
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 4: lot of people don't think about. And we're going to

650
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 4: tell you, uh, We're going to tell you what will

651
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 4: really set your conspiracy apart from other attempts. After word

652
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 4: from our sponsor, timing right, good stories, good comedy, good horror.

653
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 4: It's all about timing.

654
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 3: What a terrible joke. It's good.

655
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 4: It's good that joke about timing took a minute. Yeah,

656
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 4: So look, you want to do this slowly. You don't

657
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 4: want to go out everywhere and have your your carefully

658
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 4: crafted versions of this all of a sudden appear in

659
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 4: the same week or the same day, or even the

660
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 4: same month. You farm it out. You space it out

661
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 4: as long as you can. And that's because the visitors

662
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 4: to these sites are ephemeral. They're going to come and go.

663
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 4: The words are going to remain. And every time someone

664
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 4: looks at the most recent version of this story and

665
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 4: they go digging, every time they find something that seems

666
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 4: noticeably older from a clearly different source, it knocks the

667
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 4: credibility up. Interesting, it's weird, ac Yeah, it's a weird one.

668
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah it's true.

669
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 4: So what what do you guys think about this? What

670
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 4: if you give it a couple of years, let the

671
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 4: heat die down in maybe six months to another year.

672
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 4: After that, you start quoting your own earlier post from

673
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 4: different forums.

674
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 3: Sure, that's a good idea. It's a method.

675
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, and again, I mean the anonymity of the Internet

676
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 5: allows that to be done. I mean, and it's the

677
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 5: same way that the Internet is used for propaganda because

678
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 5: in the minds of some people, because it exists at all,

679
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 5: and it's it's it's codified and written word, then there

680
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 5: be some truth to it. And that kind of thinking

681
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 5: is the kind of thinking that allows urban legends to

682
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 5: proliferate in that same way. You know, because it's out there,

683
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 5: it has to there has to be some grain of

684
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 5: truth to it. And that is something that I would

685
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 5: say manipulative individuals and politics used to their advantage Hunter

686
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 5: because it's out there. They refer to it as though

687
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 5: it's fact, and that suits them, that benefits out.

688
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 4: A lot of people are saying, yeah, some people are saying,

689
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: shout out to By the way, stand up comic I

690
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 4: really like named Shane Gillis. Shane Gillis has a free

691
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 4: a free special up down and it is so unendingly hilarious.

692
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: Because the guy that got he was gonna be on

693
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 2: SNL and it was announced he was going to be

694
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 2: on SNL, but then he got kicked out for some

695
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: old stream he did or something.

696
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, he has an SNL story. I remember too.

697
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 3: I can't.

698
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 4: I can't recall the specifics, but a lot of people

699
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 4: are saying, no, I'm kidding. So when you quote yourself,

700
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 4: make sure you put some small variations into the original

701
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: story mix. Make sure there's one way you've heard it

702
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 4: and there's another version you've heard. This further empowers your conspiracy.

703
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 4: And we can measure the success of this when other

704
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 4: non related sources start repping, repeating, and remixing the tail

705
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: on their own. And here's here's a spooky part. This

706
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 4: is kid, you not much more likely to happen now

707
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: than at any other point in human history because of

708
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 4: machine learning, because of automated content scraping llms, large language

709
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 4: models chat GPT. They love your campfire stories, Bro, They're

710
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 4: going to scrape them, you know what I mean. And

711
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 4: they're going to inevitably use that content if you proliferate

712
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 4: it well enough to assemble throwaway articles, clickbait things, you know,

713
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 4: list of topics that are related to stuff you mention

714
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 4: in your purposely designed urban legend. And then it'll go

715
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 4: back to the humans. They'll pull that up. They'll start

716
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 4: quoting that article, you are, at the same time that

717
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: you are proliferating your story, you are erasing the evidence

718
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 4: that you created it, which is kind of neat, you know,

719
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 4: also evil. It's also kind of evil.

720
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: Why do we want to tell people how to do this?

721
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 4: Because knowledge is power and we empowered people. Okay, but

722
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 4: it's also I think it's important to understand how this

723
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 4: stuff works and why because before we go to before

724
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 4: we go to an urban legend Britten specifically for tonight's show,

725
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: and head out on our night walks, there's one important

726
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 4: thing to leave us with. It's something everyone needs to

727
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 4: think about when we're out there in the dark. It

728
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 4: is the scariest point of all every step we just

729
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 4: described in making up an urban legend for fundsies and

730
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: hacking people's minds to make them believe it is true.

731
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 4: Every single one of those steps works for real life

732
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 4: dangerous things, real life siops, government propaganda, racist trolls on

733
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 4: social media, the kind of stuff that religions and state

734
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 4: entities use to push the public into war and to

735
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 4: egregious mass casualties. It's tech. It's narrative technology. It pushes

736
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: people toward or away from beliefs that may not be

737
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: in their best interests. And it's happening right now as

738
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: we speak, all the world round. More than ghosts, more

739
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 4: than lead poisoning, more than murder. That is the stuff

740
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 4: the powerful don't want you to know, and they also

741
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 4: don't want you to know. It's easy to do it yourself.

742
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 2: Hmmm, So I do it myself exactly.

743
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 4: So with all that you know, Noel, Matt, I think

744
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 4: it'll be an interesting experience. We're working live, so I

745
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 4: don't know. I don't know how this land. But Matt,

746
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 4: you've got a got a story to tell all of

747
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 4: us around the digital campfire here. Maybe maybe you can

748
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 4: tell us and the three of us can figure out

749
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 4: whether it jibes with what we just explored.

750
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh okay, Well I'll tell you the story

751
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 2: I've heard. It's it's a little weird.

752
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: I would set it up this way.

753
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: Actually, no, why don't we Why don't I tell you

754
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 2: the story and then I'll tell you what I've heard

755
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 2: about the story?

756
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 3: Does that make sense? This does? Okay?

757
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 2: So you guys know that I worked at a place

758
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 2: called PDC here in Atlanta for a long time, The

759
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: Piedmont Driving Club and yes, I worked there for a

760
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: long time. My dad had a history there. He was

761
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: an accountant there since before I was born. I think

762
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 2: it's one of the reasons he and my mom moved

763
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 2: to Atlanta, or to just Georgia in general. H Well, look,

764
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 2: I heard this from the bartender in the Men's Health Club,

765
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: so is Brian. I can't attest to whether this is

766
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,439
Speaker 2: true or not. This is just something I heard because

767
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 2: it's an old story. The PDC was established in eighteen

768
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 2: eighty seven, so it's got a long history here in Atlanta.

769
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: And this story occurred apparently just a couple years after

770
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 2: the club was established, So I don't know if that's

771
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 2: like late eighteen eighties, early eighteen nineties, but it occurred

772
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 2: sometime just after eighteen eighty seven. According to Brian, there

773
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 2: was a daughter of one of the early original members,

774
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: a guy named mister Collins, and mister Collins had a

775
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: daughter who was living right near Emory University in this

776
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 2: place called Baltimore Block. And one day his daughter disappeared

777
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: crazy stuff. So the neighbors of the rowhouses where she lived,

778
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: this place called Baltimore Block, they were alerted because there

779
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: was smoke coming out from under her door, and you know,

780
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 2: they're trying to get a hold of her. They can't.

781
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: There's smoke coming out, so they break this door down.

782
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: When they go in, they see dinners sitting there on

783
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: the stove. It's clearly burned. It's been on there for

784
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 2: a while. They can't find her anywhere in her row

785
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: house in this apart it's like an apartment complex, but

786
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: not really does that make sense? This is like the

787
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 2: late eighteen hundreds.

788
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 5: It's it's a rowhouse, a condo kind we think of today.

789
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But she's not in there. Her personal belongings

790
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 2: are all in there, you know, it's not as though

791
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: she's left or anything. As they're looking for her, they

792
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: hear meowing, like a pretty frantic sounding meowing coming from

793
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: the bedroom area. So they go in there. They explore,

794
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: and they find inside her closet the door is open

795
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 2: to her closet, the light is off in her closet.

796
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: The cat is in there meowing like at the wall

797
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 2: basically and just won't stop me owing, And they can't

798
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: figure out what the heck's going on. They do a

799
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 2: search for her. Her name was Anne, by the way.

800
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: They do they do a search for her. They can't

801
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: find her anywhere in the city. She's just disappeared, you guys.

802
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: And then two days later Annie shows back up. She's

803
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: in her apartment. She is just going about her day.

804
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 2: One of the neighbors in the in the rowhouse complex.

805
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 2: They're just kind of caesars, like, hey, Annie, where the

806
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 2: heck have you been? And she's she thinks nothing of it,

807
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 2: as though nothing has happened. She's just regular ole Annie

808
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: going about her day. And everybody is perplexed and doesn't understand.

809
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 2: And there's a reason why it occurred, guys. This is

810
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: the part of the story, the urban legend part of

811
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 2: the story. Okay, it's about pets and closets. Have you, guys,

812
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: ever noticed your pet paying especially close attention to your closet?

813
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: Yes?

814
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Have you ever noticed that it occurs at a

815
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: very specific time of day.

816
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 3: Morning? No?

817
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 2: No, no, no, watch closely next time your pet is checking

818
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: out your closet. There we go, check the time, because

819
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: it occurs most often when the hour and minute is

820
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: the same.

821
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 3: So like.

822
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 2: Or six oh six pm, I'm not getting check it out?

823
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: Watch for it.

824
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 4: What about triple digits? What about like three thirty three.

825
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: Three three works too. Yep, it's just less common because, uh,

826
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: it's gonna occur more than you think. This is gonna

827
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: freak you out. Okay, so look, uh there's a reason

828
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: for that.

829
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 3: Guys.

830
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: Has your cat or dog or ferret or whatever ever

831
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 2: attempted to make verbal communication while it's checking out the closet?

832
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: You ever noticed that too, like sure, me ow and

833
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: at the closet, barking at the closet, grolly. Yeah, guys,

834
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 2: this is what I've heard. It's because closets are gateways.

835
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 3: Well, everybody knows that that's where the monsters come from. Well,

836
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: under the beds the same.

837
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: There's that whole monster inc thing, and it makes you

838
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: wonder like, who over there, Disney I came up with

839
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: this idea? Well, guys, it wasn't born out of nothing.

840
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: They're they're gateways for curious entities sometimes.

841
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the Howie Mandel film from back in the eighties,

842
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 4: what was it called Monsters, Little.

843
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 2: Monsters Monsters h Anyway, there's more to the story if

844
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,839
Speaker 2: you ever want to learn. But you can probably find

845
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: some stuff about this online. You have to you have

846
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: to look for it.

847
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 4: Oh bravo, Oh well done, Matt Well done. Yes, okay,

848
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 4: so let's let's get a monster here as you. Let's

849
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 4: let's let's kick it on some of some of the

850
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 4: things that this tale did immaculately. So we have some

851
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 4: pretty strong calls to authority. Right, we've rooted this in

852
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 4: a real place. Uh, subconsciously, we have one of the

853
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 4: biggest calls to authority that humans can encounter, which is

854
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 4: a parent. So before we get into the store or

855
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 4: we learn, we learn about time, right, we learn about

856
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 4: a depth of time. And even though that doesn't directly

857
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 4: apply to the idea of closet to supernatural gateways, we

858
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 4: are now rooted in some sort of credibility because we

859
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,240
Speaker 4: have the truth upfront, right, and now we have also

860
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 4: a chain of custody for the story. Right, Matt is

861
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 4: not you're not saying Meadow is barking. I opened the closet,

862
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 4: I saw, you know, some nightmarish phantasmagoria. You're you're saying,

863
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 4: I heard this from the following people, and these people

864
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 4: are all real. And then you've got some great You've

865
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 4: got some beautiful specifics. We're empowering people with knowledge a

866
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 4: set of actions to observe, to notice, to investigate, or.

867
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: Avoid yeah, look out Baltimore Block, Atlanta History.

868
00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 4: I'll do it right now, History, and you can confirm

869
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: you did not write this.

870
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: No, I wrote all of this, he wrote me.

871
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 4: You started the historical market database.

872
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, really playing the long con.

873
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 4: Here's the that's the way it works. And those are

874
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 4: what those are Atlanta's first apartments. Huh yeah, home to socialites, bohemians,

875
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:23,239
Speaker 4: and one parakeet.

876
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know the daughter of somebody living there

877
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 2: going to Emory University, which was also established in like

878
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: the eighteen thirties, was probably a member of the PDC.

879
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 3: Just saying.

880
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 4: More rights out well that I think that that is

881
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 4: a beautiful way for us to end. So you can see,

882
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 4: you can see the power of this because stories and

883
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: narrative and language, they are technologies. They're some of the

884
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 4: earliest technologies and they're very powerful. And knowing this, knowing

885
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,000
Speaker 4: a little bit of the backstage or back room construction

886
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 4: of this stuff will hopefully help all all of us

887
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 4: be a little less credulous, right, a little more likely

888
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 4: to start thinking through some of the flags and the

889
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 4: processes we've explored tonight, Most importantly, fellow conspiracy realists, we

890
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 4: want to hear what you think. We would love to

891
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 4: hear your own home brewed urban legends. Give us the

892
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 4: ins and outs the story beats, do your calls to authority,

893
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 4: get some specifics, and tell us why you believe your

894
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 4: story could become ensconced in modern folklore. No promises, but

895
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,320
Speaker 4: if it's good enough, if we vibe with it enough,

896
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 4: we might not even read your email on air. Instead,

897
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 4: we might join you in propagating your conspiracy.

898
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 5: Indeed, and you can do so by reaching out to

899
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 5: us at the handle conspiracy Stuff on the social media

900
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 5: platform formerly known as Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, We're conspiracy Stuff

901
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 5: show on Instagram and TikTok.

902
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: Hey do you like calling people with your phone and

903
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: using your mouth to talk to them, Well you can

904
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 2: do that with us. Call one eight three three std WYTK.

905
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: That's our voicemail number. You've got three minutes. When you

906
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: call in, say whatever you'd like. Just give yourself a

907
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know if we can use

908
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 2: your voice and message on air. If you don't want

909
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 2: to do any of that, why not instead send us

910
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 2: a good old fashioned email.

911
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

912
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 2: Stuff They don't want you to Know is a production

913
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

914
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.