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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stefan.

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Speaker 2: Never told your prediction of iHeartRadio, and today we are

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Speaker 2: once again thrilled to be joined by the amazing, the astounding,

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Speaker 2: the astonishing Brute Todd.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Britie.

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Speaker 3: We love Thank you for having me. I am excited

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Speaker 3: to be back.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we are as always glad to have you back.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about this a little off mic before.

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Speaker 2: But happy belated birthday.

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Speaker 3: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Did you do anything fun or how have

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Speaker 2: you been in general?

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Speaker 3: I have been good if my voice sounds a little

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Speaker 3: bit rasp beats, because my friends and I did birthday

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Speaker 3: karaoke over the weekend and there was lots of screaming

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Speaker 3: and singing. And I sometimes get this say where I

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Speaker 3: don't do a lot of karaoke, but I love karaoke

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Speaker 3: and I'm that person who, after a few drinks insists

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Speaker 3: on singing a ballad. And my friends got lucky because

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Speaker 3: the ballad that I wanted to do they did not have.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, friends one bridget zero.

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Speaker 4: Wait, so what is your go to karaoke song? This

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Speaker 4: says a lot about you.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, I think so. It depends on for a ballad.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do an Amy Winehouse song. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to do Me and Mister Jones, which is a favorite

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Speaker 3: of mine, which they didn't have, which I feel like

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Speaker 3: is like practically a hate crime to not have a

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Speaker 3: robust Amy Winehouse selection at karaoke.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, how dare you?

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Speaker 3: What are your go to songs?

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Speaker 4: I am a nineties like, I'm the gen X millennial

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Speaker 4: person who has to hit my nineties hits so that

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Speaker 4: it will include TLC Destiny's Child if they have Wilson Phillips,

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Speaker 4: which I there was a TikTok video about if you

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Speaker 4: want to get slash millennials to stop arguing or stopping

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Speaker 4: their tracks, do a Wilson Phillips hold On And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 4: that's rude and right, but it's okat. I didn't need

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Speaker 4: that because I'm also very aware of as much as

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Speaker 4: I would love to do a Whitney Houston track, and

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Speaker 4: we usually do like dance with somebody, I want to

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Speaker 4: dance with somebody. I know her range is way out

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Speaker 4: of my league. Although past host Caroline, she does an

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Speaker 4: amazing condition of that song.

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Speaker 3: I believe it, actually I can see it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but I'm I'm that girl that

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Speaker 4: I love all of those. Then you gotta throw some

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Speaker 4: Fiona Apple in there. You know it did some Backstreet

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Speaker 4: Boys or for me in sync, I feel like those

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Speaker 4: are my go too.

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Speaker 1: Sorry I'm Backstreet Boys. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of embarrassed. My mind different.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 1: I have a very vary range of karaoke songs. I

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Speaker 1: like to do. Mulan Man, that's a good one.

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Speaker 4: I will say. That's like all the producers, like our producers,

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Speaker 4: producer Andrew, producer Dylan, like, they will get together and

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Speaker 4: Ramsey will get together and do a whole rendition of

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Speaker 4: that song.

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Speaker 1: It was quite fabulous. They do a great job.

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Speaker 2: I think at a certain point, I'm not very good

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Speaker 2: at karaoke. I love it, but I'm not very good.

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Speaker 2: And at a certain point I started thinking of like,

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Speaker 2: what are songs I know people will sing, and those

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Speaker 2: are the songs that I request Now, So I do

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Speaker 2: like the Pokemon song, which I loved Pokemon, but I

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Speaker 2: like people love it and I know the lyrics are

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Speaker 2: easy enough.

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Speaker 1: My big one is I do Ludicris get Back.

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Speaker 3: Of course from Georgia.

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Speaker 2: People like are like you have to do it before

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Speaker 2: karaoke is over, like that's the one I'm known for.

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Speaker 1: But then I do. I just like so many songs

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Speaker 1: I want to singer, like sad songs are they're long songs,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think those are good karaoke songs.

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Speaker 3: They're not good karaoke songs. But truth true friends will

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Speaker 3: let you do a ballad or two like that's like, yes,

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Speaker 3: I agree that good fun karaoke to watch is karaoke

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Speaker 3: where it's a silly, fun song, fast paced, everybody is

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Speaker 3: singing along. But I don't know, like you should be

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Speaker 3: able to have your little moment where you do you

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Speaker 3: demand silence so you can sing Amy Winehouse.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'm no good. Amy Winehouse is one of my

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Speaker 4: favorites as well.

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Speaker 3: That's a good one. That's a really good long one.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes a country song is good.

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Speaker 3: My partner I had practiced. We wanted to do a practist.

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Speaker 3: We promised we wanted to do a duet because it

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Speaker 3: was actually tennically both of our birthdays we have the

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Speaker 3: same birthday, and so right we were gonna do Love Shack.

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Speaker 3: We listened to Love Shack ten times. We had come

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Speaker 3: up with like dance moves and I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you know that song, but there are like different vocal

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Speaker 3: parts and we had really practice and then they didn't

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Speaker 3: have it after all that.

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Speaker 1: What okay?

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Speaker 4: First of all, hello University of Georgia. Be ifty dude Georgia.

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Speaker 4: Those are my people's like saying that or are im?

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Speaker 1: How dare you? Why would I not?

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Speaker 4: But yeah, those are challenging songs because they're their vocals

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Speaker 4: are pretty intense and the fact that they didn't have

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Speaker 4: it there and you practice, all right, can we just

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Speaker 4: do you have? Like? You should just do it online?

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Speaker 4: They do it for a TikTok video because there's lots

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Speaker 4: of karaoke apps out there, or if you're like any

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Speaker 4: you can buy your own machine machine.

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Speaker 1: Yes I do. And as lights.

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Speaker 2: It has like like it's really embarrassing, but it has

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Speaker 2: like the button you press and it goes.

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Speaker 3: House.

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Speaker 1: We come to Washington, d c.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Yeah, we're gonna do it.

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Speaker 3: Is it big?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? A sign you can't see you, but you can't

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Speaker 1: see listeners. But it's like a smallish box.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, we're doing this.

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Speaker 4: I'm so excited to get this done. She's going to

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Speaker 4: carry this on plane. But if you're doing it for TikTok.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna need to do that very quickly because ah.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is a great segue, masterful segue. Samantha

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Speaker 3: did it, and that is I mean, I feel like,

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Speaker 3: I think we might have talked about this before, but

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Speaker 3: I feel like we have to get back into it

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Speaker 3: because there's so much going on, and that is what's

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Speaker 3: happening with a potential maybe sort of TikTok band in

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Speaker 3: the United States.

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Speaker 4: Have you all been following this, Oh, I'm glad you

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Speaker 4: brought this up because I was actually going to do

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Speaker 4: this as a Monday mini in this conversation because this

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Speaker 4: is going to affect a lot of marginalized people and

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Speaker 4: we have to talk about it because this is also

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Speaker 4: this is very controversial. But I'm also confused because I

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Speaker 4: don't know where to side because there's so many people

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Speaker 4: on the spectrum for and against that I'm surprised by.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of those issues where you have

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Speaker 3: very strange bedfellows, Like it's bipartisan legislation and so, which,

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Speaker 3: you know, for any kind of topic, to have folks

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Speaker 3: on either side of the aisle agreeing right unanimously is

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Speaker 3: a little bit unusual. Some of the people who are

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Speaker 3: coming out against it, in my opinion, are not necessarily

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Speaker 3: who you would imagine. So I agree, And I guess

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Speaker 3: all of that is to say, I had a very

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Speaker 3: difficult time figuring out where I stood on this legislation.

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Speaker 3: Wasn't until pretty recently that I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 3: feel like I have my opinion made up, but it

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Speaker 3: took me a while to get there, exactly because of

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Speaker 3: what you described, Sam.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I feel like we should we should get

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Speaker 2: into it, because again I don't really use TikTok, but

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Speaker 2: I did follow it because I was curious about what

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Speaker 2: would happen, Like, oh, if this happens, yeah, then what's

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Speaker 2: what's next.

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Speaker 4: It's going to set a big precedent. It talks about

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Speaker 4: who's who has power of what, who is actually getting

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Speaker 4: the information that people are saying they're getting the information,

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Speaker 4: and for me, for me and you, bridget who are

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Speaker 4: actually on TikTok. Are we seeing an algorithm that is biased,

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Speaker 4: that TikTok is trying to get us on their side? Like,

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Speaker 4: there's so many questions here.

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Speaker 3: These are all great questions, so let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: So basically, we're calling it a TikTok ban, which is

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Speaker 3: not like incorrect, but it's not technically accurate. So this

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Speaker 3: legislation that we've seen moving through the House in the

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Speaker 3: last few weeks is called protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary

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Speaker 3: controlled Applications at and it wouldn't technically ban TikTok specifically. Rather,

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Speaker 3: this legislation, if passed, would block social media apps that

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Speaker 3: are quote controlled by a foreign adversary in the United States.

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Speaker 3: Right now, TikTok is owned by the Chinese based parent

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Speaker 3: company byte Dance, So when it comes to TikTok, what

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Speaker 3: that would mean is that byte Dance would be forced

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Speaker 3: to sell TikTok to an American owner in order to

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Speaker 3: operate in the US. If this legislation were to become law.

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Speaker 3: That is kind of a tricky thing. TikTok CEO shows

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Speaker 3: Too has repeatedly said, we're not going to do that,

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Speaker 3: We're not interested in selling. Will never happen, And if

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Speaker 3: this legislation were to become law, they would have to

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Speaker 3: do this in about six months, which is not a

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Speaker 3: ton of time. I'm certain this would be a very

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Speaker 3: complicated transfer of power. You know, we're talking about potentially

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Speaker 3: like a multi billion dollar deal here, and so forcing

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Speaker 3: TikTok to do that in six months is it's like

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Speaker 3: a really tall order, so much so that it is

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Speaker 3: essentially a TikTok ban, even if it's not a ban

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Speaker 3: in a technical sense.

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Speaker 4: So recently watched the video on several different TikTok creators,

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Speaker 4: as well as the press conference that the Chinese leaders did.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw this, essentially saying it's

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Speaker 4: actually written in the contract that byt dance cannot by

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Speaker 4: law sell away from China, like they that was always

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Speaker 4: a part of the contract, that's always been there, and

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Speaker 4: to the point that the government, our government knew that.

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Speaker 4: So it makes me like they I and everybody's accusing.

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Speaker 4: So this is an actual ban without them saying band

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Speaker 4: trying not to be the bad guys exactly.

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Speaker 3: So I keep seeing people being like, well, it's not

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Speaker 3: a band, it's not a band, Okay. Maybe it doesn't

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Speaker 3: use the word ban, maybe it's not a band in

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Speaker 3: the most like hyper technical sense, but functionally this is

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Speaker 3: a band, right, Like, I completely agree with you. And

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Speaker 3: even that alone is one of these things that kind

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Speaker 3: of makes me wonder about how this legislation came together.

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Speaker 3: You know the fact that they are going out of

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Speaker 3: their way to have a carve out to say it's

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Speaker 3: not really a band when functionally it basically is.

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Speaker 4: Right literally saying this is these these are your options

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Speaker 4: to sell or be banned, and then then the actual

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Speaker 4: company being like, well, no, it is in our contract

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Speaker 4: that we can't sell.

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Speaker 3: So and you knew this.

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Speaker 4: You were putting us in a rock, you know, the

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Speaker 4: rock and a hard place in that situation of like, no,

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Speaker 4: we're just going to be out, and the Chinese knows

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Speaker 4: that the US, as many users as there are, are

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Speaker 4: not the only users exactly.

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Speaker 3: So that actually brings up like a pretty clear next

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Speaker 3: question of whether or not there is a someone who

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Speaker 3: would buy this right like TikTok. It would probably be

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Speaker 3: a multi billion dollar sale tip to acquire TikTok, and

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Speaker 3: there's not really a lot of people who have emerged

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Speaker 3: who are you know, in a position to buy this. However,

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Speaker 3: former Trump administration Treasury Secretary Steve Menuchin said last week

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Speaker 3: that he's actually putting together an investor group to buy TikTok. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: a former Trump administration official could own it. Now I've

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Speaker 3: put that into a little bit of context. That would

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Speaker 3: mean that Elon Musk owns Twitter, Manonchin would own TikTok,

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Speaker 3: and that would really be a huge change in our

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Speaker 3: social media landscape. In my opinion, I don't think that

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Speaker 3: would be a change for the better necessarily.

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Speaker 4: Right, we already know what's happening with I misinformation on

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Speaker 4: Facebook and who dictates all of that, which is very

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Speaker 4: concerning in itself. So that means all of I mean,

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Speaker 4: I will say. Someone said, and this is a whole

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Speaker 4: different conversation that Reddit is becoming the new safe space.

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Speaker 3: Oh that's so interesting because I've actually found myself. I

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Speaker 3: was like a Reddit power user back in the day,

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Speaker 3: and then I stopped using it so much. I started

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Speaker 3: using Twitter and Instagram more. Now I'm back on Reddit,

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Speaker 3: and there's something about it because like, for me, I

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Speaker 3: really need to have a reliable text based social media

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Speaker 3: platform as much as I like TikTok, you know, I

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Speaker 3: need to. I need to. I'm I'm a words person,

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Speaker 3: Like I like to read words. I like to write words.

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Speaker 3: Being on camera on video, which is a different thing.

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Speaker 3: I like watching other people be on video and be

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Speaker 3: on camera. But I'm a words person and I think,

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Speaker 3: like so, Reddit has kind of re emerged as a

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Speaker 3: place where I'm spending more and more of my time

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Speaker 3: and it's actually feeling pretty good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think I don't think you're the only one.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, people are calling that kind of the

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Speaker 4: safe space because if they're actually well monitored and you're

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Speaker 4: going to uh, you know, the subreddit that is specifically

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Speaker 4: for you, that it has been well moderated in an

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Speaker 4: affair and like objective manner, and peopleally really like trusting

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Speaker 4: that system more now because they're worried about TikTok. But

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Speaker 4: back to like we need to talk about what exactly

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Speaker 4: is this legislation that they're trying to pull.

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Speaker 3: So it passed the House last week and now it

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Speaker 3: goes to the Senate. President Biden has already said that

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Speaker 3: if it passes the Senate, he will sign it in law.

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Speaker 3: White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre said that the

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Speaker 3: Biden administration is really looking to the Senate to act

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Speaker 3: quickly on this legislation, and so like it could be

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Speaker 3: something that moves fast. However, I will say that as

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Speaker 3: quickly as this legislation passed the House, passing the Senate

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Speaker 3: is looking like it might be a little bit more complicated.

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Speaker 3: A bipartisan group of senators is already sort of signaling

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Speaker 3: that they would not necessarily be down for voting for

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Speaker 3: a TikTok ban. For instance, Senator ran Paul described the

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Speaker 3: bill as a quote draconian measure that stifles free expression,

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Speaker 3: tramples the constitutional rights, and disrupts the economic pursuits of

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Speaker 3: millions of Americans. Senator Ed Markey, a Democrat from Massachusetts,

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Speaker 3: argued that the privacy issues that the bill is meant

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Speaker 3: to be, you know, addressing, exist far beyond TikTok. So

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Speaker 3: it does kind of seem like it might not be

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Speaker 3: the kind of thing that is quickly and unanimously passed

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Speaker 3: in the Senate. It might there might be some some

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Speaker 3: pushback there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what I understood. Let Schumer, who is the lead

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Speaker 4: in the Senate, was saying that he is in no

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Speaker 4: hurry to even look at this bill because they have

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Speaker 4: been kind of inundated with a lot of opposition. Again,

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Speaker 4: and this is one of those moments when you said

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Speaker 4: Ran Paul, Ran Paul and Marjorie Taylor Green all opposing

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Speaker 4: this makes me think that I'm on the wrong side

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Speaker 4: if I sort of agree with them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean listen, so you're exactly right. Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 3: didn't really have anything to say about the legislation and

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Speaker 3: the way that he's I forget how he said it exactly,

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Speaker 3: but like to me, it signaled I am not taking

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Speaker 3: a position on this, and I'm in no hurry to

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Speaker 3: make us a priority. That's what it looks like to me.

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Speaker 3: You're so right that the people who are for and

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Speaker 3: against it is so because usually it's like whatever Margory

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Speaker 3: Taylor Green is for, I am probably against and vice versa. Right,

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Speaker 3: But you know, even I think last week former President

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Speaker 3: Trump came out against a TikTok band, which that's a

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Speaker 3: reversal of previous positions, right, So it's like it is

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Speaker 3: very difficult to figure out where different elected officials stand

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Speaker 3: on this and use it's difficult to use that as

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Speaker 3: a barometer for where as an individual folks listening should stand.

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Speaker 4: I think there's so many conversations because we've already talked

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Speaker 4: about the original band that we were talking about long

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Speaker 4: tap ago with a show to coming in front of

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Speaker 4: the Senate testifying, and then the xenophobic comments that happened

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Speaker 4: time after time and time after time, and this is

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Speaker 4: a whole different conversation that I have to have with

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Speaker 4: myself as an Asian person because we have talked, we

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Speaker 4: haven't talked much about the fact that there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of misinformation and there's a lot of kind of conspiracy

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Speaker 4: theories that the US is xenophobic tactics from the past,

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Speaker 4: and that communism is not good. Don't get me wrong

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Speaker 4: in all of this, but the level of evilizing and

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Speaker 4: condemning of the places like China and North Korea again

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Speaker 4: not good. But a part of that conversation is because

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Speaker 4: they're not Christian enough. That has been a part of

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Speaker 4: that too. That makes me wonder how much of this

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Speaker 4: is a colonized idea of what they expected China and

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Speaker 4: these other countries to become and when they are of

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Speaker 4: power because they are not Christian nations? Is that that

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Speaker 4: is that part of their what they see as evil

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Speaker 4: of these places and then being successful.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you really can't have a conversation about the

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Speaker 3: way this legislation has been moving without talking about xenophobia,

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Speaker 3: and I wish that wasn't the case, but it is

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Speaker 3: American elected officials who are making that the case. Like

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Speaker 3: I wish we could have this conversation about the merits

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Speaker 3: of this legislation. However, when you have elected officials in

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Speaker 3: hearings making blatantly xenophobic and anti Asian comments to TikTok CEO's,

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Speaker 3: you have to talk about it like it is. It

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Speaker 3: is just inherently heard the conversation. It makes it so

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Speaker 3: that you cannot talk about the legislation on its own

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Speaker 3: without talking about the sort of like rhetoric that you're

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Speaker 3: describing here, and it really does us a disservice. I think,

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Speaker 3: because the American people deserve to see the merits of

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Speaker 3: legislation you know discussed. I think that any person who

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Speaker 3: is a CEO of the company as big and as

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Speaker 3: influential as TikTok should be comfortable being grilled in front

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Speaker 3: of elected officials, and the American public should have a

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Speaker 3: sense of, like, where what they're thinking about. However, when

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Speaker 3: you retreat into these harmful anti Asian xenophobic stereotypes and

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Speaker 3: claims and theories, you are doing everybody at disservice because

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Speaker 3: we don't get that right. We're talking about the xenophobia,

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Speaker 3: and we have to talk about the xenophobia because you

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Speaker 3: brought it up, you injected it into the conversation, does

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Speaker 3: that make sense.

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Speaker 4: The entire time the entire time, and calling them the

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Speaker 4: enemy state. Again, don't get me wrong, I know that

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Speaker 4: the history is complicated. The Chinese government has done a

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Speaker 4: lot of bad things. The US government has done a

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Speaker 4: lot of bad things. And then this is like the

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Speaker 4: back and forth of like what is happening? But then

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Speaker 4: also it kind of comes down to the fact that

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Speaker 4: again maybe because I do enjoy TikTok and I do

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Speaker 4: go through and like love my dog videos, I love

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Speaker 4: my cue little animal, I saw honors the'ed adorable, I

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Speaker 4: want one, but like all these things and making it

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Speaker 4: seem like if they shut down TikTok, and it's like

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Speaker 4: that is shutting down the voice of the people. And

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Speaker 4: it's kind of interesting to see what TikTok is doing

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Speaker 4: and trying to respond to the governments like us against

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Speaker 4: them like seemingly totally.

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Speaker 3: So some of y'all might have gotten like big alerts

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Speaker 3: when you tried to open TikTok the last few days,

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Speaker 3: urging you to call your member of Congress and tell

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Speaker 3: them that you do not want a TikTok. Band I

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Speaker 3: actually didn't get one. Maybe maybe they know that I'm

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Speaker 3: in DC, and like there's not a member of Congress

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Speaker 3: that I could call. I could call Eleanor Holmes Norton,

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Speaker 3: but she doesn't get a vote, So like there's really

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Speaker 3: they're maybe they're like, we're not gonna waste our time

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Speaker 3: getting bridget with this ad. But the alert reads stop

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Speaker 3: a TikTok shut down. Congress is planning a total ban

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Speaker 3: of TikTok. Speak up now before your government strips one

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Speaker 3: hundred and seventy million Americans of their constitutional right to

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Speaker 3: free expression. This will damage millions of businesses, destroy the

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Speaker 3: livelihoods of countless creators across the country, and deny artists

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Speaker 3: and audience. Let Congress know what TikTok means. Over the weekend,

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Speaker 3: they also did a push notification that folks might have

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Speaker 3: gotten to their phones pretty much saying the same thing.

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Speaker 3: It honestly does sound like this is working. Congressional staffers

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Speaker 3: say that their phones were like ringing off the hook.

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Speaker 3: One house GOP staffer told Politico that it was so

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Speaker 3: so bad. Our phones have not stopped bringing their teenagers

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Speaker 3: and old people, saying they spend their whole day on

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Speaker 3: the app and we cannot take it away.

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Speaker 4: You know, one creator was talking about the fact that

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Speaker 4: they actually said there was a lot of millennial women,

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Speaker 4: a lot of millennial women calling in. They were kind

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Speaker 4: of surprised how many millennial women and when a middle

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Speaker 4: aged and millennial women were calling in talking about this

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Speaker 4: was going to affect their business.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually, Essence just put out a really really interesting

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Speaker 3: article about how many specifically black women entrepreneurs and creators

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Speaker 3: were really using TikTok to promote their businesses and like

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Speaker 3: find a foothold and in ways that they were unable

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Speaker 3: to do on other platforms, and how much a TikTok

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Speaker 3: ban was concerning to them and their livelihoods economically, and

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Speaker 3: so that doesn't surprise me at all. I also wanted

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Speaker 3: to make one other comment about that, which is that

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Speaker 3: I think that TikTok has a reputation of being like

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Speaker 3: a young person's app, and certainly it has a lot

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Speaker 3: of young users. However, the average TikTok users age is thirty, right,

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Speaker 3: and so that's like I would call a thirty year

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Speaker 3: old young, but like a thirty year old votes, you know,

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Speaker 3: like these are people who, you know, we're not talking

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Speaker 3: about a children's app. And I think that perception is

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Speaker 3: really not correct, and I think that's the perception that people.

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Speaker 4: Have right, which is an interesting because I know the

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Speaker 4: original idea of TikTok was younger users, much younger. It

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Speaker 4: was like the dance app, which I like dancing. I

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Speaker 4: want to see people dance. I can't do those moves,

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Speaker 4: but I want to see them. But it was it

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Speaker 4: was interesting, and I know that that's the big conversation

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Speaker 4: of like who is using it, who this is affecting,

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Speaker 4: and who is able to get on it. Of course

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Speaker 4: we've already had that conversation with like how quickly that's

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Speaker 4: changing to and how quickly they will shadow band many

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Speaker 4: a marginalized communities. But that's the hair there totally. And

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Speaker 4: so just one other thing about these these push notifications

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Speaker 4: and stuff. I have seen a lot of people say

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Speaker 4: that TikTok urging users to take political action is evidence

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Speaker 4: enough that the app is bad. That they're like demanding

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Speaker 4: that teenagers call their congress person or whatever, and that like,

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Speaker 4: you shouldn't have an app telling young people what to.

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Speaker 3: Do or whatever. But this is so common for tech

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Speaker 3: companies to do. Both Uber and Lyft have sent out

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Speaker 3: similar push notifications asking for users to contact congress or

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Speaker 3: do certain things. And so TikTok is not the only

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Speaker 3: tech company or app that has done this kind of thing,

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Speaker 3: and people trying to act like this push notification action

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Speaker 3: was completely beyond the pale. It's certainly not. It happens

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Speaker 3: all the.

437
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: Time, right, which I feel like if I remember correctly Twitter,

438
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 4: different Twitter accounts would have the like you know, you

439
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,239
Speaker 4: could have the one link and they would often do

440
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 4: like at least like petitions. I remember during a lot

441
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: of the Black Lives Matter stuff and many of the

442
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 4: murdering of the black community, they would have links and

443
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 4: petitions that would happen through Twitter. So none of these

444
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 4: things are new. I'm wondering again, and I know this

445
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 4: is that bigger conversation of like, maybe I'm just too

446
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 4: caught up in some conspiracy theories. But some of the

447
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: conversations that have happened with the pro Palestinian movement and

448
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 4: what's happening there and many consider genicide, I consider a

449
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 4: genocide happening there, that TikTok has been one of the

450
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 4: biggest platforms to actually have conversations about that and through

451
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 4: that because they do have like the link tree that

452
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 4: do have petitions and alerts and all of these things

453
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 4: like that has happened, and I know there's a conversation

454
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 4: about whether or not that's part of this motivation.

455
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 3: Totally. I have so much to say about that. I

456
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 3: will say first, I think a lot of the conversation

457
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 3: around how conversations about what's happening in Palestine are unfolding

458
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: on TikTok. I think a lot of the conversation about that,

459
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 3: to me feels a little bit ageist and condescending, Like

460
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: it's this idea that like, oh, well, if young people

461
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 3: are you know, if they feel a certain way about

462
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: what's happening in Palestine, certainly is a Certainly that is

463
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 3: a problem, and it is it is TikTok's fault, as

464
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 3: opposed to saying like, well, maybe young people are smart

465
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: and with it and like looked at looked at the

466
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: information available to them and came to a conclusion, and

467
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 3: you know, treating that with the respect that it does.

468
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 3: I see a lot of older elected officials sort of

469
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: handwringing and being like, oh, well, the only way that

470
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: our kids could come to this conclusion is that if

471
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 3: this app is like tricking them into it, and so

472
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: there have been a lot of interesting conversations about how

473
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 3: that fits into this legislation to potentially ban TikTok, this

474
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: concern about where young people are finding themselves when it

475
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: comes to conversations about Palestine.

476
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: I guess this brings us to a question. Then I

477
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: feel like the answer is kind of clear. We've kind

478
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: of talked about it ear last. A part of it's clear,

479
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: why is this happening in the first place, bridget.

480
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 3: It's a great question. So if you take these lawmakers

481
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: at their word, if you take the name of the

482
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: legislation at its word, lawmakers say that TikTok is a

483
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: national security risk because it's owned by China, and that

484
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 3: the app app could be compelled by the Chinese government

485
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: to manipulate public opinion because you know, they are you know,

486
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 3: TikTok does have this like super powerful algorithm that they

487
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 3: can use to boost certain content, suppress certain content, that

488
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 3: they could collect mass data on Americans or even spy

489
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: on individual Americans. And so that's sort of like what

490
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: lawmakers are saying they are trying to prevent with this legislation.

491
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: Okay, but is that actually the thing?

492
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 3: So I should say here, this is a little above

493
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 3: my pay grade. But as somebody who has done a

494
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: lot of looking into this and had many, many, many

495
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 3: interviews on it, this threat, my understanding, this threat is

496
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: just purely hypothetical. You know, the Intercept is published a

497
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 3: piece about how when pushed on these threats and like,

498
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: when asked, you know, what is the threat? Is the

499
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 3: rest smoking gun? The FBI uses phrases like oh, China

500
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 3: could do X, y Z if they wanted to, China

501
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 3: could potentially do right, it seems to me that there

502
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 3: is not a smoking gun or like hard evidence that

503
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 3: this is happening or there's a plan for this to happen. Now,

504
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: you might be listening and saying like, well, why should

505
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: we have to wait until there's a smoking gun? Why

506
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 3: should we have to wait until there's evidence that this

507
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: is happening? And that's a fair point, But as of

508
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: right now, they would be passing this law to deal

509
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 3: with a hypothetical or potential threat that currently there is

510
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 3: just not evidence that's going on.

511
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: Right.

512
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 4: One of another creator that I was looking at has

513
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 4: actually posted I think a recent list showing that the

514
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 4: likelihood of information being farmed and Facebook and Amazon and

515
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 4: Instagram were top three while TikTok was actually a number twelve.

516
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm so glad that you brought that up.

517
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: The fact of the matter is is that we have

518
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: a social media and digital landscape that is just rife

519
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: with bad actors and corporate interests and operations who are

520
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 3: doing bad things, in some cases breaking the law to

521
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 3: make money off of us and to exploit us. That

522
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 3: is just a fact. I don't like it, nobody should

523
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 3: like it, but it is what it is. And so

524
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: this legislation to me, really seems like it's cracking down

525
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 3: on TikTok for having the same problems and same issues

526
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: that Facebook, Google, Twitter all have, for exploiting us in

527
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 3: the same potentially exploiting us in the same ways that

528
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 3: every other social media platform has, but regulating them because

529
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: it's China. And this is my opinion, I think that

530
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 3: this is really more about the United States wanting to

531
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 3: remain the top dog when it comes to big tech, right,

532
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 3: Like I think I saw some joke that was like, oh,

533
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: like China wants my data, don't they know that's reserved

534
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: for Mark Zuckerberg. I think that's exactly what's going on here.

535
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: I think that lawmakers have figured out that by you know,

536
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 3: being tough on TikTok, they can one you know, act

537
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: tough on taking down China, and two make it seem

538
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: like they are sort of being tough on big tech

539
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 3: while actually doing nothing when it comes to regulate big tech.

540
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 3: Because just the fact of the matter is big tech

541
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 3: companies enjoy a pretty cozy relationship financially with a lot

542
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: of elected officials, and so if they were actually to

543
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: talk tough big on American big tech, that conversation might

544
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 3: get a little bit thorny. But by regulating TikTok in

545
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: this way, they kind of get the points and the

546
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: appearance of being like we're taking on big tech or

547
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: really doing nothing about taking on big tech.

548
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 4: I mean, we know that they let some laws drop,

549
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: some policies drop in order to protect tech companies and

550
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: their liability way back when, and have been doing so

551
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 4: for a minute. But I think it's interesting and I'm

552
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 4: sure you've seen this Jeff Jackson, Representative Jeff Jackson, who

553
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 4: actually really made his headway in TikTok, Like his videos,

554
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 4: his like common sense takes seemingly in Congress really like

555
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 4: had him going like really high in the polls and everybody.

556
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 4: People were talking about him being president, him being so

557
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: great for like being common sense and all these things,

558
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 4: and then he got called out for voting yes to

559
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 4: the TikTok ban, which made him like this the people

560
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 4: that followed him made that for him, and then him

561
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: coming back on saying that, you know, I don't think

562
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 4: it's going to be banned. It's not gonna be banned.

563
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 4: It's fine, it's fine. No, I'm just a little concerned

564
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 4: because you know, what's in my ear. What's in my ear?

565
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 4: And then on top of that, people showing why some

566
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: of these possibly like the conspiracy theories about why and

567
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 4: this the different people who are paying the lobbyists who

568
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: are coming through who are actually pushing this narrative really hard.

569
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's some of these aren't conspiracy theories, right,

570
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: Like we know that Facebook or Meta has pumped so

571
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: much money into anti TikTok like negative pr right. Facebook

572
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 3: worked with a company called Targeted Victory to get like

573
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 3: negative op eds about TikTok placed in newspapers so that

574
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 3: elected officials would see them like this is a documented thing, right,

575
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: Like I don't think anybody at Facebook would deny this

576
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 3: is happening. It's it's like a matter of public fact,

577
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: and so we do got to ask some questions about why,

578
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: because certainly a TikTok ban would be great for Facebook

579
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: and great for Mark Zuckerberg, and they're certainly spending a

580
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 3: lot of money to push a certain negative public perception

581
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: of TikTok with elected officials. Like I remember when there

582
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: was a hearing a couple last year about TikTok, and

583
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: Facebook had paid targeted Victory to put op eds in

584
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: papers about like how young people had really unfortunately died

585
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 3: or hurt themselves doing so called TikTok challenges, however, obscuring

586
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: the reality that some of those TikTok challenges actually originated

587
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 3: on Facebook. Right. And so it's like, rather than having

588
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 3: the conversation about, well, what platforms were actually responsible for

589
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: this harm, and like, like, let's talk about this harm

590
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: to kids, which we should be doing, it's just a

591
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 3: way of making TikTok the boogeyman and letting Facebook off

592
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: the hook for harms that they also participate in.

593
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: Right, And kind of related back to our shops. When

594
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 4: we're talking about TikTok shops, there's a conversation that Amazon

595
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 4: have jumped on board because they have lost cells due

596
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 4: to TikTok shops. So that's a whole different conversation. Again,

597
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: so many things that you're like, why are you doing this?

598
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, money, I mean everybody, everybody has a stake in

599
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 3: this a little bit like Amazon and Jeff Bezos certainly

600
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 3: have a financial stake in what's going to happen with

601
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 3: TikTok because TikTok is really aggressively pushing TikTok shop as

602
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 3: a way to compete with online retailers like Amazon, and

603
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 3: so Amazon obviously has a financial stake in what happens

604
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: with TikTok. And so we just got to be more honest,

605
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 3: I think, and have a bit more of an honest

606
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 3: assessment of the major players and why they might be

607
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 3: taking the positions that they're taking.

608
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 4: Right, but let's say all this is just hearsay and conspiracies,

609
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: as I'm saying, even though we've talked about it's not.

610
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 4: Is TikTok trying to balance out the fears?

611
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: So they are. TikTok's attempt to balance out these fears

612
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 3: is what they're calling Project Texas. So TikTok has committed

613
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: to spend one point five billion dollars on this plan,

614
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: which would essentially enact a firewall between TikTok and employees

615
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: of its Chinese based parent company, fight Dance. It would

616
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: sort of set up this United States based firm called

617
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: Oracle as a kind of a watchdog to scrutinize TikTok

618
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: source code and I guess like act like a third

619
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: party monitor for potential security risks. So basically they're like, Okay,

620
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: if you are so worried about it, we will set

621
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 3: up this firewall and we will put it America tech

622
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: firm in charge of being a watchdog to make sure

623
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: everything is on the up and app Will that actually

624
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 3: be enough to satisfy these lawmakers? It sounds like the

625
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 3: answer is no so far, Like, I have not actually

626
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 3: seen a lot of people talking about Project Texas as

627
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 3: a thing that is actually going to ameliorate the concerns

628
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 3: that these lawmakers are saying that they have.

629
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 4: I'm trying to imagine if they chose the name Project

630
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 4: Texas to try to wow.

631
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: I'm sure like, oh my gosh, what conveys like patriotism

632
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 3: and like Americanism and like oh United States, Project Texas,

633
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: Freedom Texas.

634
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: Now this is really interesting to me because I had

635
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: to take a moment. I was reading up about this

636
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: because again I was just curious about what would happen,

637
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: and I was reminded of you know, when I was

638
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: in China. You know, Twitter's band, Facebook is band, Instagram's banned,

639
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: Google's not allowed, Google left voluntarily.

640
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 1: But then it's kind of like no.

641
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: But everybody used a VPN to just like use it anyway.

642
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: So I was just thinking about, like, what would that be,

643
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: what was that going to look like. It's just it's

644
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 2: a really fascinating kind of terrifying thing. But I guess

645
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: the last time you were here, we were talking about this,

646
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: and you know, we were talking about still the same

647
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 2: things of which I know we'll get to later about

648
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: you know, marginalized communities being affected, because again in China,

649
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: that was a huge blow that they couldn't use these things.

650
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 2: But also you know, having these spaces is really important.

651
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: But they do have their issues, and last time you

652
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: were here, you were talking about like TikTok and what

653
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: is going on there with their issues.

654
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: Totally, So someone listening to this might be like, wow,

655
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: Bridget is like being paid by TikTok or something, although,

656
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: as we discussed, I am wearing a TikTok sweatshirt right

657
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 3: now that I got as a free swag from an event,

658
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: only because it's the Comfy's sweatshirt I've ever worn. However,

659
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 3: like I will be the first person to tell you

660
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 3: all the different ways that I think that TikTok is

661
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 3: messing up, I don't want to make it, see Mike,

662
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 3: I think TikTok is great. It definitely has very big

663
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 3: issues that deserve to be talked about, that they deserve

664
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 3: to be made accountable for, you know, just like any

665
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 3: social media platform in twenty twenty four, there are some

666
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 3: very valid concerns around TikTok and security and other things too,

667
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 3: And anybody who tells you that there isn't just does

668
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: not know the fact. So we talked about how a

669
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: lawmakers are concerned that TikTok could like spy on Americans.

670
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: They actually have kind of done that already, you know.

671
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 3: There were reports that TikTok access journalist information to identify

672
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 3: which employees were leaking information about the platform. TikTok basically

673
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 3: admitted to doing this, according to an internal email. They

674
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 3: were asked about this, and they were like, well, it's

675
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: not really spy, and I mean, like, it does sound

676
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 3: like spying to me, you know, I get what they're

677
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 3: kind of saying that it's not like they were spying

678
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: on random American citizens for no reason. They were spying

679
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: on specifically journalists to answer a specific question. To me,

680
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: spying is spying, So like, it's not like they have

681
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: a squeaky clean record on that, which I think people

682
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 3: should just be aware of. Also, there's like plenty of

683
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 3: other non spying reasons that your average person who uses

684
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 3: TikTok or like has a child or a sibling or

685
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: something that uses TikTok should be concerned about, right, what

686
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: issues when it comes to moderation, Like Sam was talking

687
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 3: about how TikTok impacts mental health, one of the things

688
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: I wish that you talked about more is just like

689
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: how addictive these platforms are, how they are intentionally made

690
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: to keep you scrolling for longer and longer and longer,

691
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 3: even when they know this is actually harming them, this

692
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: is actually making them feel bad, Like they like, this

693
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: is they know this right, this is not this is

694
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 3: not news to them, and yet they still design their

695
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 3: platforms to be as addictive as possible. These are questions

696
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: I wish we had answers to right, things like algorithmic

697
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: suppression or algorithmic manipulation, like are they showing you some

698
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: things and not showing you other things? And why? Of course,

699
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 3: the spread of things like mis and disinformation and pushing

700
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 3: users into extremist content. But as much as these are

701
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 3: things that we should be talking about, none of them

702
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 3: are specific to just TikTok, And so I have a

703
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,320
Speaker 3: problem with this idea that the reason the only reason

704
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 3: that we should care about these issues is when the

705
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: platform is owned by a Chinese based parent company. I

706
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: don't understand why we can't then say like, okay, well,

707
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 3: if these are problems, let's actually address the problem, and

708
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 3: let's actually call out the different corporations for doing the

709
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 3: exact same thing, because it's not just TikTok, and it

710
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 3: makes it seem like they're making TikTok into this singular boogeyman,

711
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 3: when anybody who has used Facebook or Twitter or Instagram

712
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: knows that is not the case.

713
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 4: Mean, Twitter in itself is a cesspool of white supremacist,

714
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 4: not neo Nazi movements.

715
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about this too, because I

716
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: was like, you know, it's it's really if we lose TikTok,

717
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 2: we've already kind of lost Twitter, Like we're losing these spaces.

718
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 2: It's and they were important, Like there there is such

719
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: a use and a value in them, and it is

720
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like when people don't use them or

721
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 2: they don't understand them, they dismiss that they're just like,

722
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: but there is so much happening and so much being

723
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: shared that is important on them. We already lost Twitter.

724
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like I think that context is really

725
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 3: important of what will it be like when if there

726
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: is no TikTok and Twitter is functionally not usable, you know,

727
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: for particularly for marginalized people, right, Like, you know, I

728
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: feel like I cannot use Twitter without seeing transphobia, racism,

729
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 3: horrible conspiracy theories, harassment, and so it's not a platform

730
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,960
Speaker 3: that I can really tolerate spending a lot of time

731
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 3: on anymore so for marginalized people who do not want

732
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: to be subjected to that kind of nonsense. Where if

733
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: we lose TikTok, where's the organizing happening? Right again, to

734
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: add even a little more context, folks might have seen

735
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago that Meta made an announcement

736
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: that they were going to be deprioritizing content about political

737
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 3: and social issues, right, and so if they are making

738
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 3: that choice, and it's going to be that much harder

739
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 3: for political and social issues, which Meta has a track

740
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: record of really defining those issues as issues pertaining to women,

741
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: queer folks, trans folks, black folks, Right, those are the

742
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 3: issues when they say political issues and social issues from

743
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 3: their own behavior, like that is what they mean. They

744
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 3: have a whole track record of suppressing content about abortion

745
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 3: access and Palestinian activism and black activism and things that

746
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 3: pertain to marginalized communities. So that being the case, where

747
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 3: are these where are we supposed to do our organizing?

748
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: Where are we supposed to build power online? Particularly given

749
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: that building power online has been so important to traditionally

750
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 3: marginalized communities, It's really a deep question that I'm quite concerned.

751
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 4: About, right, And Honestly, platforms like TikTok really help with

752
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 4: brand new creators, Like this is where you can see

753
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 4: like there's not nepotism working. It's literally people who go

754
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 4: viral for whatever reason, good or bad, but essentially they're

755
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 4: just making it on their own whether it's sure algorithm

756
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 4: has everything to do with it, but we're able to

757
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 4: see more and more content from like everyday people, like

758
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 4: every day people who get to do great content, and

759
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 4: people can pick and choose who they want to follow

760
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 4: and who they don't want to follow, and it's actually

761
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 4: something that they do on their own. And I know

762
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 4: YouTube once upon a time was that kind of same

763
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 4: idea as well. But with this level of like needing

764
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 4: to be ad sponsored on YouTube, that kind of has

765
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,399
Speaker 4: gone away. You already need a connection, whether it's through

766
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 4: an agency, whether it's through something to actually make big

767
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 4: again on YouTube, as where TikTok has kind of become

768
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 4: that new YouTube where you can be discovered as a

769
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 4: brand new thing.

770
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. In that article I mentioned in essence about the

771
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 3: black women entrepreneurs who were really concerned about a TikTok ban,

772
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 3: that was something they really made clear is that on YouTube,

773
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: in order to find success, you have to have a

774
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 3: kind of like already have some sort of name or connection.

775
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 3: It is very difficult to sort of start from zero

776
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 3: and start building up. I'm hearing that YouTube shorts, this

777
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: sort of like new TikTok competitor on YouTube might be

778
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: a little easier. So like that's a platform that folks

779
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: might to check out. But it just goes to show that,

780
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 3: like it's just so hard to use social media to

781
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: build a platform for yourself. And with all of these changes,

782
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 3: and with the different platforms changing so rapidly, not to

783
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 3: mention the overall landscape changing so rapidly, that is certainly

784
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,959
Speaker 3: going to hurt marginalize people the most, people who don't

785
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 3: necessarily have access to like traditional media outlets and like

786
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: legacy media and things like that. And so it's just

787
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: really clear to me that we are potentially gearing up

788
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 3: to a digital media landscape where it is that much

789
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 3: harder for underrepresented voices to be heard equitably and in

790
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: a way that's truly representative.

791
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 4: Right, So, with all of that and all the conversations

792
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 4: that I'm throwing out, with all the things that I've

793
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 4: seen on my algorithm, what do you kind of lay

794
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 4: out there what you think is really happening right now?

795
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: So, as I said, I think that lawmakers have really

796
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 3: sent that like they need to be cracking down on TikTok.

797
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: It will help them kind of look tough on China,

798
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 3: will also kind of help them look like they're doing

799
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 3: something to reign in big tech, even though they're not.

800
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 3: I think that the United States really wants to remain

801
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: a major player when it comes to big tech, but

802
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 3: also the like massively lucrative data collection industry. I think

803
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: that like this is really about that concern to me,

804
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 3: because you know, if you really wanted better data privacy,

805
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: which we should have, it does not begin an end

806
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 3: with banning TikTok are, especially when all of our data

807
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: is essentially for sale to whoever wants it, which if

808
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: you're an American, I'm sorry to report that it's just true.

809
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,279
Speaker 3: Anybody out there who wants to buy your address, your

810
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 3: phone number, really any piece of information about you can

811
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: do that, and they can do it legally, And so

812
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 3: that's to me, that's something that seems bad, and that

813
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 3: includes countries like China. Only a few weeks ago, back

814
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 3: in February, I signed an executive order that ostensibly was

815
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: meant to limit the sale of some of our data

816
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: to quote countries of concern. But this order really just

817
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 3: puts some limitations on the sales of American data. As

818
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 3: Wired points out, US data brokers need only take a

819
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 3: few steps to ensure that overseas customers follow certain security

820
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 3: requirements during the transfer, many of which were already required

821
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 3: by law. So I really just have a hard time

822
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 3: understanding why TikTok is such a threat given that China

823
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 3: would not even need TikTok to get our data. As

824
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: long as they follow certain guidelines, they can legally buy

825
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: it the same as anybody else.

826
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 4: It is just literally like, okay, so you didn't give

827
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 4: us money for it, that's why we want to be Yes,

828
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 4: we couldn't make a profit out of it. Which is

829
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 4: hilarious because I think I've received in the last three

830
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 4: months alone at least four different letters telling me that

831
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: my data has been breached by all these different companies.

832
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,799
Speaker 4: My healthcare told me I have got a breach. My

833
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 4: insurance told me I gotta breach. I want to say,

834
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 4: my h one of my credit cards got to breach.

835
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: My bank that has my mortgage, you gotta breach. So

836
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 4: I'm like, uh, some everybody's got my data. According to

837
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 4: my information, they all have it.

838
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is just the state of being an American.

839
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 3: It's like every like you wake up, buy a coffee

840
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 3: and then you had a notification five seconds later. That's like, oh,

841
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 3: we got we got it, we got you whatever, whatever

842
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,479
Speaker 3: information that you have, we have right.

843
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 4: And what's so even funnier to me is instead of

844
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 4: people actually, instead of the government's changing or going after

845
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 4: these people a hardcore I'm sure if like small fish

846
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 4: get actual jail time or whatever whatnot, I'm being Instead

847
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 4: all of these agencies and corporations are changing their terms

848
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 4: of agreement to tell me that I can't suit them

849
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 4: for their bad they're bad breach.

850
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, if anybody uses Roku you might have seen recently,

851
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: you had to agree to some new terms and conditions,

852
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 3: and those terms and conditions were like, you can't sue

853
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: if we do something wrong to you.

854
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 4: If you reach information, you can't see us. We're listening

855
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 4: all your money if.

856
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: You want to us, if you want to watch this

857
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 3: episode of Gilmore Girls, you have to give away your

858
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 3: ability to sue us.

859
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 4: I mean, like, what's so funny is every single individual

860
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 4: network I stold us to, like Hulu has sened that

861
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 4: out and I was like, what the hell is this?

862
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 4: And the other part to all of those like for Roku,

863
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 4: the only way you can opt out is by sending

864
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 4: them a physical letter.

865
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 3: Doesn't that really tell you everything about how these companies

866
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 3: are showing up in this day and age that like, yes,

867
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 3: and I guess like to close, like that's sort of

868
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,879
Speaker 3: I just think that that dynamic, the dynamic that says

869
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 3: that American tech companies can do whatever they want to you,

870
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: take whatever they want from you, exploits you in any

871
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 3: way they want make money from you and your kids

872
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 3: however they see fit if it makes them richer, and

873
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 3: there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

874
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: I think that that is really what we're up against here.

875
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 3: I think that people are sick of it. And I

876
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,360
Speaker 3: think that this whole song and dance about TikTok really

877
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: highlights that it's not just about this one app. It

878
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: is about an entire rotten ecosystem where we are being

879
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: exploited to make somebody else fitcher and I think people

880
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: have really come to see that, like that is what

881
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: we need to be talking about. That is what we

882
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 3: need to be really deeply rethinking and reassessing.

883
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think one of the things I love

884
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: about when you come on Bridget and your show is

885
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 2: that there are so many things that are so gatekeeping

886
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: in the technology world, where so many things have been

887
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: invented or crafted by women marginalized communities, and then are

888
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,840
Speaker 2: like overtaken, are bought by people, and it is a

889
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: way of keeping us off out of these spaces.

890
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: Like you can.

891
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 2: There are just numerous examples of times where it's like, well, Okay,

892
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: I can't use this anymore because I'll run into all

893
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,399
Speaker 2: this hateful stuff. I can't use this anymore because I'll

894
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 2: run into all this hateful stuff. So I it is

895
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: a really important issue in terms of intersectionality and feminism,

896
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: and as we're moving into elections, oh my god, like

897
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 2: I'm just so concerned about a lot of it.

898
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: But it is like.

899
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 2: If we again did lose TikTok, it would be another

900
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,720
Speaker 2: space where that's gone, can't show up anymore.

901
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, women, people of color, trans folks,

902
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 3: queer folks, we are technology, like we are what makes

903
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 3: technology what it is. We have been at the forefront

904
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 3: of all of this, of computers becoming commonplace, of cell

905
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: phones becoming what they are, of smartphones, iPhones, all of it.

906
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 3: We have been at the forefront of that since the

907
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: very beginning. And so I guess I just want to

908
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: challenge anybody listening whether you're for a talk band against it.

909
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: Never use TikTok, never would use it. Really see this

910
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 3: domain and these conversations and these spaces as yours to

911
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 3: be part of, yours, to take up space, and yours

912
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 3: to show up in, yours to care about. I think

913
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 3: a big part of that sort of gatekeeping that you

914
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: spoke about, Annie is this idea that we A don't

915
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 3: belong in these spaces, which is bs we do, we

916
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 3: invented them, You're welcome, or B that we can't be

917
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: involved in them because we're not smart enough. You don't

918
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 3: have the background, whatever, whatever. I don't have any kind

919
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 3: of hard tech degree or anything. You don't need a

920
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: hard tech degree to know when you're being taken advantage

921
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 3: of by a tech leader. You don't need a degree

922
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 3: in it to know when a digital experience does not

923
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: feel good, It is not validating, and it is exploitative. Right.

924
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 3: You are the expert of your technological experience, and don't

925
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 3: let any of these tech bro losers tell you otherwise.

926
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 3: You are smarter than Elon Musk, whoever listening to this.

927
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 3: You are smarter than Musk. I guarantee it. I don't

928
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: know who you are, but I can guarantee you Elon

929
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 3: Musk is stupider than you are. For sure.

930
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 4: I mean he's bankrupted two companies.

931
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 3: Have you yet comment companies that you bankrupted? Probably none.

932
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: Writing Samantha sent me a TikTok recently about the study

933
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 2: about how male gamers who are bad are the ones

934
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: that are real pissed off right, And we talked about this,

935
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 2: Bridget in our episode we did on gate keeping and

936
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: online gaming, and.

937
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, see, you guys just suck.

938
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 4: Most of the trolls who were on the gaming network

939
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 4: were the ones who were actually really bad at the game.

940
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 4: Those are the only trolls that you released.

941
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm good, I'm a good gamer.

942
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 2: Don't come in my space.

943
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 3: You suck and you're taking it out of Andie stop it.

944
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 2: Yes, well, we always love having you, Bridget. Thank you

945
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: so much. I'm sure we'll be following up on this.

946
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. But in the meantime, where can

947
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: the good listeners find you?

948
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 3: You can check out my podcast. There are no girls

949
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: on the Internet. You can find me on Instagram at

950
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 3: Bridget brandyc on Blue Sky, at Bridget Todd, on threads

951
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: at I think my thread's name is the same as

952
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 3: my Instagram name. I think I have to double check

953
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 3: if that's true, but you can try that.

954
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 4: Uh.

955
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 3: And you can find me on TikTok at Bridget Todd

956
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:25,720
Speaker 3: makes pods.

957
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 2: Yes, and you should do that if you haven't already.

958
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 2: Listeners and check out all Bridget has done on this

959
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 2: show for sure. Yes, thank you for being here and listeners.

960
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 2: If you would like to contact us, you can our

961
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: email at Stephanie moms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You

962
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 2: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or

963
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok stuff.

964
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 1: I've Never told You.

965
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,120
Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a

966
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

967
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 2: as always too, our super producer Christina or executive producer Maya,

968
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 2: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you

969
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 2: for listening. Steffan Never told You is Fritch and by

970
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 2: heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you

971
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 2: can check out the Heart Radio Apple Podcasts wherever you

972
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 2: listen to favorite shows.