1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: Listener mail. This is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: And today's the day we bring you messages that you've 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:22,960 Speaker 1: sent in over the past couple of weeks. So today 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: we've got some messages about the Cool As Show effect, 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 1: about Vault episodes on Mushroom Foraging. But I think first 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: we're going to start off with the response to our 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: series on Tumbleweeds. Yes, now I have to say, and 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: this is something that you pointed out, we have fewer 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: messages than we usually have, so I'm going to try 12 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: and speak very slowly and Okay, if I pause enough, 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: we'll be able to go thirty minutes or so here. 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: Oh oh, that's a brilliant idea. Excuse me, that is 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: a brilliant idea. All right, I don't know if we 16 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: can sustain this. I'll probably go back to normal speed here. 17 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: They can easily defeat us by just going to the 18 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: two x speed or whatever on playback. That's right, they're 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: just and then but that then we'll cause like some 20 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: sort of whiplash if we go super slow and then 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: we start speeding up again, and we don't want to 22 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: We don't want to do that. We don't wanna do 23 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: that to the listeners. Folks. Have we annoyed you enough 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: today already? Or all right, let's jump into it. This 25 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: one comes to us from Bill. It's titled Tumbleweeds, Bill Rights. 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: Your show has edutained me for years, but I am 27 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: shocked that of all the fascinating topics that you have covered, 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: it is the seed spreading of dead flora that has 29 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,919 Speaker 1: brought in the most email. I am in southern Utah, 30 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: which has a huge supply of Russian thistle that rolls 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: around the area, gets caught in the dust devils, which 32 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: elevate them hundreds of feet above the terrain, and of 33 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: course clog up drainage, ditches, slat canyons, and even damages 34 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: cars if the central quote unquote trunk of the bush 35 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: is large enough to damage the frail plastic of modern cars. 36 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: Some of these beasts can reach eight to ten feet 37 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: in diameter. My job throwing people off of cliffs keeps 38 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: me surrounded by these mesmerizing rolling nuisances as I hike 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: and climb through remote desert areas. Of all the places 40 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: where you don't want to tangle with these are in 41 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: some of the slot canyons of Lake Powell. There are 42 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: places where one has to wade and swim through a 43 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: hundred yards of lake soaked tumbleweeds that could easily be 44 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: five to ten feet thick from the lake bottom to 45 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: just below the surface. They quickly sink, but take quite 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: a while to fully break down. This leaves years, if 47 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: not decades, of submerged spiky residue to contend with. Keep 48 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: up your amazing content and delivery, Bill, Wow, what a 49 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: hellish scene you have described, so like slot canyons that 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: have water at the bottom, and then that water is 51 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: just full of like years of build up of of 52 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: slowly rotting tumbleweeds. Yeah, I love I love this detail. 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: We're learning more and more about the devastation wrought by 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: the Russian thistle. I'm assuming the job of throwing people 55 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: off of cliffs here is some sort of like bungee 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: cord related venture, bass jumping or something. Yeah, I don't know. 57 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: I hope this is not a confession from a serial killer. 58 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: In our He's just a crazed desert dweller that throws 59 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: people off of cliffs whenever he finds them, but he 60 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: does not clarify, so we'll just have to assume the 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: best quantum state. All right, are you ready for this 62 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: message from Lauren on our Vault episodes about mushroom foraging. Oh? Yes, okay, 63 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: Lauren says, Hello, Robert and Joe. Uh, And then she 64 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: starts off by saying some some very nice things about 65 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: the show and talks about how she started listening to 66 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: us this past December and has been exploring a bunch 67 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: of our episodes ever since then. So Lauren begins after 68 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: listening to the second Vault episode about mushroom foraging. The 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: information about the two types of fruit flies made me 70 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: think about the times in my youth when I very 71 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: occasionally played Super Mario on the Nintendo sixty four, the 72 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: one where you jump through paintings to enter worlds with 73 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: goals to complete um. Now, for people who haven't revisited 74 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: the Mushroom episodes recently, we should probably do a quick 75 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: refresher on what the deal with the different foraging styles was. Basically, 76 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: the idea here is that research has identified a gene 77 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: found in a variety of animals called p r KG 78 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: one and found that in UH some very different animals, 79 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: though a lot of the researches in fruit flies, which 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: variant of this gene you have, which p r KG 81 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: one allele you have seems to correlate with preferences in 82 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: foraging behavior, and in fruit flies at least they identify 83 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: two distinct types of foragers that are called sitters and rovers, 84 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: and these two styles have various implications, but the simplified 85 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: version is that sitters tend to be more conservative in 86 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: their foraging patterns, so they will stick close to the 87 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: boundaries of established foraging areas and they have shorter paths 88 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: of exploration, whereas rovers tend to be more adventurous. They 89 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: tend to explore foraging environments with long search paths and 90 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: a greater tendency to dive right into the exposed center 91 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: of open foraging areas. So there are probably a lot 92 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: of implications to this, but it seems at least possible 93 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: that this may have something to do with risk. Aversion 94 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: right that sitters, by sticking to more established foraging regions 95 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: and sticking close to sheltered boundary areas of of foraging 96 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: zones UH, they take fewer risks, but of course they 97 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: also suffer opportunity costs compared to the rovers, which may 98 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: be you know, taking more risks by just sort of 99 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: venturing right out into open space. But they're also more 100 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: likely to discover new food sources by doing that. Uh. 101 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: There is some research to indicate that possessing different variants 102 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: of a foraging associated gene might also be correlated with 103 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: similar behavior preferences and humans. Though that that's the kind 104 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,679 Speaker 1: of assumption that I'm always a little bit cautious about, 105 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: So I'd want really good research basis before before going 106 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: whole hog on that on that foraging gene type idea 107 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: in humans. But anyway, Uh, to come back to Laura, 108 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: and I remember she was talking about Super Mario sixty four, 109 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: which I I remember that game fondly. I love jumping 110 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: into the paintings too. You know, I don't think I 111 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: ever played this one, but I had to look it 112 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: up to see which one it was. I'm vaguely familiar 113 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: with Mario super Mario sixty four, but I was surprised 114 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: to see that it's apparently popped up in different peer 115 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: reviewed medical studies. Uh. Yeah, yeah, where they'll have they'll 116 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: be testing something or another studying some something or another 117 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: end they will have test subjects play super Mario sixty four. Now, 118 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if there's something special about Mario sixty 119 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: four uh that that makes it the ideal thing to 120 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: make your test subjects do, but fascinating. Nonetheless, well, it's 121 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: a rather magical game. And you know, I wouldn't be 122 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: surprised if if somebody out there at some point found 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: that that a little bit of Super Mario sixty four 124 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: was was good for what ails you, at least to 125 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: maybe in dispelling certain types of dysphoria or something. I 126 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: don't know, but yeah, So it's it's a game where 127 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: you jump through paintings to go into different like sub worlds, 128 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: and so so Lauren picks back up in her original email. 129 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: When I'd enter a painting world for the first time 130 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: or for the first time in a while, I would 131 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: always walk or swim the perimeter of the world to 132 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: get a sense of the boundaries of the terrain. I 133 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: wanted to know which directions were worth traveling in, and also, 134 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: if I was going to search the entire terrain, I 135 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: thought it best to cover the small pockets in full 136 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: before expanding my search, so that I didn't have to 137 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: return later or repeatedly unnecessarily. I did this with Zelda 138 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: as well. After listening to this episode, I got to 139 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: wondering about the expectations of video game developers. If they 140 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: anticipate their players to have a quote, run into the 141 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: center and aim for the biggest attraction or enemy sort 142 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: of mindset, or if they expect players to behave in 143 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: other ways. I wondered if for certain games, I was 144 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: being set up for success or failure not based on 145 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: my intelligence, but on the preferences and possible genetics of 146 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: the video game creator who established these rules to the 147 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: game without considering the possibility that people hunt and gather 148 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: in different ways. Thanks again, Lauren, Yeah, I think this 149 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: is really interesting, Lauren, because you know, I don't know 150 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: what I think about a how strongly determined a single 151 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: foraging gene could be on the behaviors of humans. But uh, 152 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, I think I am very much a 153 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: sitter fly when it comes to virtual environments and video games. 154 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 1: I you know, when I'm playing a video game, I 155 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: hate having to run into the middle of previously unexplored territory. 156 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm a cautious explorer. I like to understand 157 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: the landscape before I enter. I survey it from from 158 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: the sheltered periphery, look at it from high ground, and 159 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: so forth. I mean, I guess different games, Um, they 160 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: reward different types of behavior, or they can. Some games 161 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: are certainly gonna maybe be broader in their approach and 162 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: play tested in different ways to where you can you 163 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: can take multiple strategies. Um. But this is a great 164 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: question I'd love to hear from anyone out there with 165 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: more familiarity with the game design world. It does remind 166 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: me a little bit of of the situation with if 167 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, with Fallout seventy six when it came out. 168 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: I think the idea with that was they were like, 169 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna get all these people into this 170 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 1: virtual shared all out world and they're just gonna fight 171 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: each other, and they're gonna have a great time fighting 172 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: each other. And it turns out like most people playing 173 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: it didn't actually want to fight each other. They wanted 174 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: to do other things. And so there was a period 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: of time during which I was I was playing the 176 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: game where uh, even even though the game wanted you 177 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: to kill each other, people were tending to do the opposite, 178 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: and they were trying to do something more communal. And 179 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: then eventually the game uh developers, the game masters kind 180 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: of catch up with with that, uh and and kind 181 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: of shift the shape of the virtual environment to meet 182 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: the way people wanted to actually play the game. It's interesting. 183 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: I never played that game. The only thing I know 184 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: You've mentioned it a couple of times, but I think 185 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: the only other thing I've seen about it was that 186 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: for some reason people were mad about it, like was 187 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: it buggy or something? Um oh, I'm trying to even remember. 188 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: It may have been buggy at first, I mean, not 189 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: not catastrophically. So I enjoyed playing I must have played 190 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: it pretty steadily for for over a year. It was 191 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: kind of a kind of a comfort food for me 192 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: for a little bit there. Um, I gotta say, I'd 193 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: rather enjoy a buggy game sometimes, like a lot of 194 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: pleasure out of that. Yeah. I mean a lot of 195 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: these bugs become memes, right, yeah. Yeah. But I would 196 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: love to hear more more about this because I guess 197 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: nowadays you tend to have games that are created by 198 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: by large groups, and hopefully those groups will be linked 199 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: diverse enough in their mindset to where somebody at some 200 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 1: point will be like, well, hey, what if you don't 201 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: want to run into the middle of this room. What 202 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: if you want to you know, play more like a 203 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: rogue or something. Uh, should we make space for that 204 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: to happen? But then I wonder if that it was 205 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: was less likely during the era of you know, more 206 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: like a soul developer on a video game. M Yeah, 207 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: I wonder. Then again, I guess there might also be 208 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: just different types of games, uh, that that appeal more 209 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: to the sitter type personality versus the rover type personality. 210 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: Like I mean, there are certain types of games that 211 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: there are a ton of in our generation that I 212 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: just don't ever enjoy at all, like the like the 213 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: military shooter type games that hold like no appealed for me. 214 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: But it seems like maybe they'd be more appealing to 215 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: somebody with kind of more of a rover personality who 216 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: likes to just run in and start shooting at anything 217 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: that moves. Yeah. Yeah, though though even in those games 218 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: I remember, you know, back in the days of of Doom, 219 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: like the original Doom and the original Quake and those games, uh, 220 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, you'd have people who wanted to to to 221 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: to camp out to just hang out in one spot 222 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: on the map and then just snipe people when they 223 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: moved in. Um, and I think some of these games, 224 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: like like Half Life. Eventually caught up with that and said, okay, well, 225 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: let's let's make sure they're different roles for these different 226 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: types of players within a given like death match situation. 227 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess, I guess they're usually you probably 228 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: can tell I don't play multiplayer games very much, but 229 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: they're usually like different player classes in those games. Right, yeah, 230 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: all right, should we move on to the next one here? Sure, 231 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: let's go. Uh. This one comes from Brenda and this 232 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: has to do with their episode on the Clushov Effect. Hi, 233 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: Robert and Joe. I'm a long time listener and love 234 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: your show. I'm currently recovering from COVID and as such 235 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: have had an unusual amount of free time as I 236 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: cannot go to work. I've been using this time to 237 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: catch up on my favorite podcasts, and yours always takes 238 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: the top spot. I just finished listening to the Kulashov 239 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: Effect episodes, and the thing that came to mind for 240 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: me was memes. We have a whole culture of intentionally 241 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: taking expressions and clips out of context and matching them 242 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: with whatever images or blurbs fit what we would like 243 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: to express the popular woman screaming and a cat name 244 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: comes to mind. Perhaps it is not a perfect connection, 245 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: but it seems to me that in the age of 246 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: social media, the edit is more important than the actor. 247 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Thanks Brenda, Yeah, this is a good point. Uh, I 248 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: don't know. So there's one big difference I think with 249 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: the the the alleged Coolershov effect in the in the 250 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: origin as you can experiment, which was supposedly that it 251 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: was like an expressionless face on that the actor was using, 252 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: and then that was paired with whatever. Most I think 253 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: meme faces are not usually expressionless. They're they're like, I 254 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 1: don't know, they've got some kind of directed content. But 255 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: then you fill in a blank in the IMPLI in 256 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: the sentence that's implied by the meme with whatever the 257 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: subject of the meme is, you know, the thing it's 258 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: reacting to or the text you put on it, and 259 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: so forth. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm instantly thinking of a 260 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: lot of these meme faces where where yeah, it's pretty 261 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: obvious what the emotional impact is supposed to be. A 262 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: lot of times it's this versus that I guess the 263 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: woman making the the disgusted face and then the you know, 264 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: considering it face, or it's Drake saying no, he doesn't 265 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: want this and then saying yes, he does want this. 266 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: So it's there's not a lot of ambiguity. Maybe i'm i'm, i'm, i'm. 267 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: You know, I'm just not thinking of a good example. 268 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: But I off the top of my head, I'm not 269 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: thinking of any um any any meme faces that leave 270 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: a lot of room to imagine what that individual thinks 271 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: of the thing that they're supposedly looking at or considering. 272 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: But I do think, nevertheless, there's really something going here 273 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: because the meme culture, I think connects more to the 274 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: coolest Shavian vision of filmmaking, where you would just have 275 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: these sort of like endlessly rearrangeable building blocks that are 276 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: then the the editor uses them to make meaning and 277 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: endless combinations. So I mean, and memes are kind of 278 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: that way. It's not so much that you know, you're 279 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: seeing neutral faces that you're reading expressions onto because of 280 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: the context, but you are seeing things that are just 281 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: treated as building blocks that can be repurposed to any situation. Yeah, alright, 282 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: this next message is also about the Coolest jav Effect. 283 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: This is from somebody. I'm sorry, I don't know how 284 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: to pronounce your aim. It's spelled d I O N. 285 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: That might be dion or dion. I'm not sure. I'll try, 286 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: uh Dion Dion says Dear Rob and Joe and stuff 287 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: to blow your mind crew, massive fan of the show. 288 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: I just had to make this contribution to your discussion 289 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: of the Coolest Shov Effect. I hope you find it 290 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: useful or interesting. It's worth considering the role of another 291 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: editing element of the modern film, and that is sound. 292 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: Cooleshov's work was done before fully synchronized sound, Although it 293 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: is worth noting that music almost always played a role 294 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: in cinema in the West, it's commonly cited that music 295 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: was used to cover up the sound of the noisy 296 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: film projectors of the day. Oh yeah, I can only 297 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: imagine what kind of clattering racket those things would have made. 298 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: But the email goes on. But beyond that, there are 299 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: many examples of sound being used in the same way 300 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: we use modern score, that is, to influence or manipulate 301 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: an audiences perceptions or emotions and ultimately drive the film narrative. 302 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: Michelle Chillon and this is the name of a French 303 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: filmmaker and composer, UH talks about a concept called added value. 304 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: Added value is where images on screen and sound combined 305 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: to create new meaning. This meaning is greater, different, or 306 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: more complex than the original meaning of each part. In 307 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,719 Speaker 1: Isolation and then Deon gives the example of how you 308 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: can use like atmospheric sound paired with a shot of 309 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: an apartment interior to set very different kinds of scenes. 310 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: Like you might hear you might hear kind of birds 311 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: twittering and breeze blowing, in which case you assume this 312 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: apartment is is somewhere in kind of like a peaceful 313 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: countryside setting. Or you might hear like loud traffic and 314 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: horns honking and and the bustle of people and voices, 315 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: in which case you assume that the Uh, the apartment 316 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: is somewhere in the city and it's urban and things 317 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: are happening and busy. Dion writes, each scenario sets the 318 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: scene for a completely different narrative while the picture remains 319 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: the same. Actually, sound does this in a very economical way, 320 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: very quickly, without even drawing our awareness to it. I 321 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: recommend Shann's book Audio Vision, Sound on Screen, since you're 322 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: interested in this nerdier side of film. This was published 323 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: in English in n s Owen's work corresponds with the 324 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: availability of videotape, which simplified the repetitive study of filming 325 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 1: material in a classroom setting. Oh that's a funny detail. 326 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever put that together before, 327 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: but I wonder if I wonder how the the advent 328 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: of home video changed trends in film criticism and film theory, 329 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: just because it suddenly would become so much easier to 330 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: rewatch films and seen from films. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 331 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: I certainly remember as a kid the films that I loved, 332 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: and of course I feel like oftentimes when you're a kid, 333 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: you do watch things over and over again. But I 334 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: would just I would put things on like slow motional 335 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: loops when possible. You know, it would be like the 336 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: melting scenes and raiders of the Lost Art. And it 337 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: wasn't enough to just watch it once. You know, you 338 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: had to slow it down. You you had to freeze 339 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 1: frame and all of this. So it's you know, thank goodness, 340 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: those effects who really saw it watching that Nazi turned 341 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 1: to soup. It made you the man you are today. 342 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: But yeah, I know, I know exactly what you're talking about. 343 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: But if I had had, you know, if I wanted to, 344 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: and I had more of an appreciation for for the 345 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, the actual you know, art and craft of 346 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: sentiment at the time, that's the kind of thing I 347 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: could have looked to. I could have I could have 348 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: slowed it down instead of then and asked myself, well, 349 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: what is um you know, what is spiel we're actually 350 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: doing here? How is he how is he pulling me 351 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: in with this particular sequence, how is it cut? And 352 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: then how might I recreate the same thing? Absolutely? But 353 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: but to come back to the email, Dion rights to 354 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: bring this back to Kolashov's idea of the manipulation of 355 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: an image. I used to teach a subject about film 356 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: sound and we would do an exercise that was always 357 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: really effective. It went like this. You would choose a 358 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 1: short section of film, you choose music from a variety 359 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: of genres like horror, romantic, comedy, drama, et cetera, and 360 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 1: then you'd play back the scene with the new music 361 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: and discuss the results. Simple but effective. We would do 362 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: this in groups and I found over the years that 363 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: the driving to the Bates Motel scene in Hitchcock's Psycho 364 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty was very effective for this exercise. Uh. 365 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: And then Dion provides a link to the scene which 366 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: I did a little experiment with. I paired up the 367 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: Psycho scene with with Janet Lee with the silver shamrock 368 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 1: music from Season of the Witch, and it did indeed 369 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: produce a different effect, though I don't know if it 370 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: was uh. I mean, I guess the effect it produced 371 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: was was well within the wheelhouse of the movie Psycho already, 372 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: would you say that she appeared more irritated than yes, yes, 373 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: or maybe I would say that honestly, the idea that 374 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: came to my head was she was afraid that she 375 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: found herself hating her own children because they were singing 376 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: this song so much. Yeah, yeah, I can. I not 377 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: try this myself, but just looking at it, I'm imagining 378 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: like some of the stuff you could drop in, uh. 379 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: You know, you could certainly drop in some some other 380 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: forms of tense music. You could also drop in something 381 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: that's maybe a little more emotional, you know, like I'm 382 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: thinking some some sort of modern I don't know, Lanta 383 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: del rey sort of music, you know, and it would 384 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: take on I think a different vibe. Well, I like 385 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: what Dion says, which is quote. I was always surprised 386 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: by the new possibilities without going into them all. I 387 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: recall watching the scene to a disco track, and this 388 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: had the scene taking on the sense of a cheesy 389 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: romantic comedy. All of a sudden, Janet Lee's nuanced performance 390 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: is turned into simply before date jitters. I can totally 391 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: see that, and I love it that that. I think 392 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: it works. Dion says, of course, the face remains the same, 393 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: but we attribute different meaning to it, as per the 394 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: Coolishev effect. I found the temporal nature of the results 395 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 1: interesting to some music choices would give the sense of 396 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: leaving something behind, while some would create tension about the future, 397 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: like the original score. And then Dion encourages us to 398 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: take a few moments to try it for ourselves, like 399 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: the kind Diarity described this part. I thought was really 400 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: interesting that certain certain pairings would cause you to see 401 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: the emotion on her face as reactive to something that 402 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: already happened, and others would cause you to see it 403 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,159 Speaker 1: as anticipatory. Yeah, I mean, I didn't actually play it. 404 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: But I've been watching it the whole time, and I 405 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: was just a running APAs dancing Queen through my head 406 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: while I'm looking at it, and I can I can 407 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: sort of get, you know the point here about like 408 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: the sort of the disco vibes. How that would potentially 409 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: steer interpretation, Like it turns the the paranoia that she 410 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: has about the fact that she stole all this money 411 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: in the movie and is wondering, is worried about what's 412 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: going to happen, It turns that into that is what 413 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 1: happened in the scene, right, didn't she take a bunch 414 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: of money and run away? Yes? Yeah, but anyway, yeah, 415 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: it turns that into like being worried about what people 416 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: are going to think about her at the party or something. Anyway, 417 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: the email goes on. Perhaps it odds to all of this. 418 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: There are quite a number of studies that displayed the 419 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: primacy of vision over sound. White noise is regarded as 420 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: more pleasant when associated with the picture of a waterfall, 421 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: for example, and red trains are louder. And then there 422 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: there are links to a couple of citations for this 423 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: abe at All nineteen uh in the study called the 424 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 1: Effects of Visual information on the impression of environmental sounds 425 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: and then fostil at all in two thousand four audio 426 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: visual interactions in loudness evaluation. But then finally Dion sites 427 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: something called the McGurk effect. The McGurk effect is an 428 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: example of this idea of visual dominance. Uh. This is 429 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: an interesting and persistent allusion, credited to cognitive psychologists McGurk 430 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: and McDonald In nineteen seventy six, robbers a visual example 431 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,400 Speaker 1: I'd link to that you can check out for yourself, 432 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: but I'll try to explain it. So, if you watch 433 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: video of somebody making a sound repeatedly, the the example 434 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: I found was a man just saying bob bob bah 435 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: like a sheep bh, over and over and uh. And 436 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: something very strange happens if you continue playing the same 437 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: audio but substitute in video of the guy looking like 438 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: he's making an f sound with his mouth, so it 439 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: would be fa fa fa, even though the audio doesn't change. 440 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: At least on me, I absolutely hear fa fa fa, 441 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: even though technically the audio is the same bob bah 442 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: bah as it was before. Interesting and and the at 443 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: least subjectively, the effect is profound on me, Like I 444 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: I absolutely hear faughfafa, It's as if that's what he 445 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: was actually saying. Anyway, Dion finishes up by saying that 446 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: they're working towards their their PhD doing research in sound 447 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: design of film dialogue and ends up saying some very 448 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: nice things about the show and uh in saying I 449 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: love the stuff and could talk about it all, but 450 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: I'll stop now. Warm regards Dion, Well, thanks, this was 451 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: a really great email. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm gonna just 452 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: busy myself now with playing different different works of music 453 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: over that psycho scene. I think Janet Lee's face and 454 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: the Psycho scene is yet another good example of a 455 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: face that is ambiguous but not neutral. You could you 456 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: could read multiple things into it, though I guess it 457 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: would be hard to imagine that she looks happy, but 458 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: you could read multiple different kinds of negative emotion into 459 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: her face. All right, let's do Let's do one more here. 460 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: This one comes to us from Morgan. Morgan rights, Hey, fellas, 461 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: love the show and I hope you're doing well. I 462 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: just wanted to address your comments regarding the Witcher drawing 463 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: his sword. While they don't appear this way in the games, 464 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: and it's not explicitly addressed in the books. In the 465 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: show the TV show um the scabbard is not continuous, 466 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: and that it essentially just hold the tip of the 467 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: sword in place and a strap secures it towards the hilt. 468 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: A scabbard design this way would allow the blade to 469 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: move independently of the linked scabbard until it clears the 470 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: strap at the top. Also, the books usually point out 471 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: that Garrel loosens the strap on his scabbard when he 472 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: may need to draw, allowing for further mobility. Additionally, and 473 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 1: semi related, only in the games does the Witcher carry 474 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: two swords at once. Typically, if he's carrying a sword 475 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: on his back, it's just the one he needs to 476 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: use for the current foe. His other remains in the 477 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: carrying case on the saddle. I've attached an image below 478 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: which shows the scabbard and yes, there it is all 479 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: right now if you're totally confused by this, I think 480 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: this person is responding to me in a previous listener 481 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: male saying that the witcher sword would not work. But 482 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: I was talking about in the video games, because in 483 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: the video games he wears his sword in a full scabbard. 484 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: It's like a solid scabbard encasing the blade, but on 485 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: his back. And I was just pointing out, you can't 486 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: draw a sword like that because your arm is not 487 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: long enough to get it out of the scabbard if 488 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: it's on your back. But so on the show it 489 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: sounds like they've got to work around for that by saying, well, 490 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: the scabbard isn't actually solid. It's just like the tip 491 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: point is solid, and then there's a strap, so he'd 492 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: have to loosen the strap and then pull it out 493 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: a little bit and then he can just like he 494 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: doesn't have to pull it out the full length because 495 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: it's not actually solid all the way around. Yeah, this 496 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: makes me want to do something on swords again. I 497 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: know we've covered swords and blades and weapons to a 498 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: certain degree in the past. I know you love swords man, Well, 499 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: I mean you know a movie with a good sword scene, 500 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good sword fight. A good sword fight's hard 501 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: to find an emotional sword fight. It tells a story. Um, 502 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: I do vaguely remember you. You you get into like 503 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,159 Speaker 1: the history of various um styles of sword play, and 504 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: it's it gets pretty fascinating, like they are all these 505 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: sort of distinct martial art forms that in some cases 506 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: are you know, partially forgotten but also easy to you know, 507 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: to to to not recognize when you just see an 508 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: illustration of the image. Especially, I'm thinking some of these, 509 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, very large swords, you just sort of think, well, 510 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: you just go up there and you start swinging it around, right, 511 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: But but no, there's a particular a particular form, there's 512 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: a particular way that you would use this weapon effectively 513 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: in combat. Maybe that's an episode we do one on 514 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: great swords, you know, okay, really big swords and what 515 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: what circumstances do they make sense? And then how often 516 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: do we see that same logic applied to to video 517 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: games or scenes and fantasy movies. All right, man, I'm there, 518 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: all right, all right, We're gonna go ahead and call 519 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: it there. But obviously we'd love to hear from everybody. 520 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: If you have thoughts on anything we've discussed here today, 521 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: we can talk about it in a future Listener mail episode. 522 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: We do these every Monday. Our core episodes of Stuff 523 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind come out on Tuesdays and Thursdays. 524 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: On Wednesday we do a short form artifact episode and 525 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: on Friday, that's when we do weird out cinema. That's 526 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: our time to set aside those serious matters and just 527 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: discuss a weird film. Huge thanks as always to our 528 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like 529 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us with feedback on this 530 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: episode or any other, to suggest topic for the future, 531 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: or just to say hello, you can email us at 532 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff 533 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind is a production of I Heart Radio. 534 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 535 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 536 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: favorite shows.