1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Al Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 2: Ah welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 2: where the host Robert Evans, one of the hosts, has 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: recently recovered from a terrible, terrible sickness by by engaging 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 2: in some fascinating experiments with theah flu, largely using a 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: friend's diabetic needles, just shooting it straight into the veins 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: my co host today, Garrison Davis, Have you ever shot 8 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 2: flu medication into your veins? 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 3: Garrison, No, I've only shot one thing into my veins. 10 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: Well, speaking of shooting, today's episode of It Could Happen 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: Here is about a shooting it before you are like, oh, man, 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: I don't really have it in me to listen to 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: a horrible story about people dying today. Don't worry. Nobody 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: gets shot in this story, Thank God. 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: Miraculously nobody gets shot, Like against all odds, it's stunning 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 3: that nobody got shot. 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: This is the tale of a police officer fucking up. 18 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: Not worse than any cop has ever fucked up, because 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: again he didn't kill anybody, but fucking up in a 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: way that's like more baffling and incompetent than I think 21 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: I've ever seen before. 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 3: It's probably the most embarrassing. 23 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: And certainly the most embarrassing and not even really malevolent, 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 2: just like outrageously incompetent. But I'm gonna let you take 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: over from here, Garrison. 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: So, yeah, we are going to be talking about in 27 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: acorn involved shooting today. Happened that happened in Florida. 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: Finally we know what the A and A cab stands for. 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: That's right, son, We're gonna play some clips here, but 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 3: I think it's important to set the scene so you 31 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 3: kind of understand what you're hearing. So this cop walks 32 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: up to his patrol car. There is a suspect locked 33 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 3: in the back. 34 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: Sunny day, Houston suburbs, big houses, wide streets. 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, now something happens as the cop is about to 36 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: open up the door. He then dives onto the ground. 37 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 3: It does two like action roles, double barrel rolls, and 38 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: then starts shooting at the car and starts yelling to 39 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 3: another officer who's in the area. And I think we'll 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: just we'll just play the rest here. 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 42 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 3: The first clip is about thirty seconds long, and then 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: I just have a few shorter clips kind of that 44 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 3: that I've kind of stitched together that just just to 45 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 3: get a sense of like what he's saying and what 46 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 3: he's communicating after he opens fire on this patrol vehicle. 47 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 3: So here is here is that audio. 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: Barn jot, Barn jut Bart. 49 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: Shots Barn, you know who? I love? That love. 50 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: What that I the car? 51 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: Shot the car. 52 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm I'm good. I'm feel weird, but I'm good. 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: I might have hit my best Mark. It might have 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: hit my best I don't know, but I'm not. 55 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know. 56 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: I found like it. 57 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: I got you. 58 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: You wanted me, Jesse, come back? Uh uh Mark right back, dude, 59 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: of my hit? Okay, further back, further back to the back. 60 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: All right. 61 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 3: So that was a lot of gunfire. Again, it is 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: shocking that no one died because it's not immediately evident 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 3: if you just watched the video. But there is somebody 64 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 3: who's trapped in the back of that car, and there's 65 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 3: multiple officers shooting at the car. 66 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: And here's the thing. The guy. The distance the guy 67 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: is shooting from. God, from when I watched the video 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: last I would estimate maybe about twenty. 69 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 3: Yards, probably even shorter than that. 70 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: Maybe sure, maybe more like fifteen. It's medium to maybe 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: medium long range for a handgun. For a full size 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: handgun like that, I'd say it's about medium range. So 73 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: a competent shooter should be able to hit a target 74 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: about the size of a human torso at that distance 75 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: with most of the rounds. But he is not that. 76 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 2: When I say competent, that is somebody who is bracing 77 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 2: themselves and who has two hands on the gun. He 78 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 2: is shooting like a character in an action movie. And 79 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: I cannot imagine. So a lot of those rounds did 80 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: not even hit the truck. I imagine they went flying 81 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: into a neighborhood where we can hear children playing. 82 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 3: Yes, Yes. 83 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: So the. 84 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 3: Officer who encountered this a core in which we will 85 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 3: get to in a sec was named Deputy Jesse Hernandez. 86 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 3: He'd been a cop for almost two years, and we'll 87 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 3: learn more about his background as we as we continue 88 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: on with this little story. The second officer, well not officer, 89 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: but a sergeant of this Sheriff's department named Beth Roberts, 90 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 3: and she's been a cop since two thousand and eight, 91 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: so she has a little bit more experience under her belt. 92 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: So let's kind of explain what happened here. So there 93 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: was a series of calls that happened earlier in the 94 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 3: day about a vehicle who was kind of driving erradically 95 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 3: around a nearby neighborhood, honking its horn kind of just 96 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: like making a lot of sounds at like three am. 97 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: The suspect was described as a black mail in his 98 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 3: late twenties. And then a few hours later, a separate 99 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 3: call was made by someone talking about how her boyfriend 100 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: has been refusing to return her vehicle and has been 101 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: sending her threatening text messages. So this caused police to 102 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 3: go to this girlfriend's house. She showed some of these 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 3: threatening text messages and they were talking with this woman 104 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 3: when her boyfriend approached the scene, so the suspect of 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: coach the police in front of his girlfriend's house. Deputy 106 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 3: Hernandez himself did a pat down to search for weapons 107 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: and observed a more thorough search once the suspect was handcuffed. 108 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 3: The missing car was located a few miles away, and 109 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 3: Hernandez was on his way back to the car to 110 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: do a tertiary search of the suspect, who is currently 111 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 3: locked in the back seat with handcuffs, and then as 112 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 3: Deputy Hernandez passed the passenger side door in acorn fell 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 3: onto the roof of his car, which is barely barely 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 3: audible in the bodycam video that we have access to, so. 115 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: You would not notice it were you not listening for it. 116 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: No. No. Three days later, Deputy Hernandez was interviewed by 117 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: two investigators as a part of the Office of Professional 118 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 3: Standards investigation into this incident of discharge gunfire and this 119 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: this interview in this report is probably one of the 120 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 3: most telling things about how police psychology operates. And Wow, okay, 121 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: so I'm gonna I'm gonna read through a few a 122 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 3: few quotes here from Deputy Hernandez. He talks about how, quote, 123 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: I'm about to reach for the door handle and simultaneously 124 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: I hear to at the time what I believe would 125 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: be a suppressed weapon off to the side. I definitely 126 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 3: heard this noise about the same time I felt an 127 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 3: impact on my right side, like an upper torso area. 128 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: I feel the impact. My legs just give out. I 129 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: don't know where I'm hit. I think I'm hit. I'm struck. 130 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: I roll back. I rolled to the like. 131 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: He's the hard boiled detective in a novel. 132 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 3: I rolled to the back of the car. Now I'm 133 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 3: stuck in the street, and I knew where the fire 134 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 3: where the shots came from. I or I believed where 135 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: they came from. It was right there as I'm reaching 136 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: for that door handle. So I'm laying behind the car. 137 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: I'm yelling shots fire, shots fired, shots fired. I returned 138 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 3: fire once I could get covered behind another vehicle that 139 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 3: was parked in the driveway there. So when asked to 140 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 3: describe what he felt, because he's not just claiming that 141 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 3: he heard a sound, he's gonna be keep he felt like 142 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: he got hit. 143 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, he felt an impact. He felt an impact, and 144 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: his legs went out from underneath him. Yes, which again 145 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: in the video, he clearly does a double barrel role. 146 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: He doesn't. That is not I have I have seen 147 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 2: people get hit and drop. They did not do double 148 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: barrel rolls like. 149 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: A little action star. Yeah, yeh yeah, yeah, he says, 150 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: quote it felt like an impact to my upper torso 151 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 3: around here he motions up to his right shoulder on 152 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: the right side. It was like a sound impact, like 153 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 3: almost that quick. I guess I just loved it the 154 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,359 Speaker 3: phrase it was like a sound impact. 155 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think he's saying I think what he's saying 156 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: from from reading it is that like we're missing some 157 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: of the body language that he was going to. It 158 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 2: was like sound and then like moving his hands to. 159 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: Get sound impact, heard the sound, and then he got impact. 160 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: I think he was actually trying to which is not 161 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: like them, which is actually not in person. Probably very awkward, 162 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: but yeah, it does. It comes across weird. 163 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 3: And so more more funny than sound. Impact. For again, 164 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 3: any corn that's falling on a roof, we have quote, 165 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 3: my legs weren't working the way I wanted them to 166 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 3: be working. I think I yelled at one point to 167 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 3: Sergeant Roberts. I think I might have been hitting the 168 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 3: leg or something along those lines, because I was struggling 169 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 3: to get cover. I think at one point I reached 170 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 3: up to touch my head. I think I still had 171 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: the sound in my head. I wasn't sure if I 172 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 3: had been hit in the head. I was getting a 173 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 3: funny tingling around all sides of my body, and I 174 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: think some of that mighty just been adrenaline putting together 175 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 3: the fact that what I just heard and the impact 176 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: that I felt. I've never been shot before, so I 177 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: don't know what that's like or you know, unquote great 178 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: oh man, So he is, he's unsure if you would 179 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: be able to notice if he got shot in the 180 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 3: head or not, which is kind of interesting. I mean, 181 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: I'm sure he could get grazed, but like, come on, buddy. 182 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's one thing you It is 183 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 2: true that like you can be hit like an armor. 184 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 2: She will not be sure if you've gotten a hit 185 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: because it didn't penetrate. But you would also not mistake 186 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: a corn shrapnel hitting you reasonably for a bullet like 187 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 2: That's simply not a mistake a reasonable person is going 188 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 2: to make. 189 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 3: So the investigator asked him, like if there was any 190 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: other sense that there could have been a gunfire, like 191 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 3: if you saw any like shattered glass coming from the car, 192 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 3: and Hernandez said no. When asked why he decided to 193 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: stop firing, Hernandez said that he stopped firing once he 194 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 3: emptied his clip, moved to cover behind it nearby Tesla 195 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: end quote, didn't observe any rounds coming back at me. 196 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:48,599 Speaker 3: Just just great, because why there's the Hernandez claimed that 197 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 3: he was never able to see the suspect while in 198 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: the patrol car. And Hernandez remained behind cover till other 199 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 3: deputies arrived. And was rushed to a hospital, where only 200 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: then he was informed that he did not in fact, 201 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 3: it shot. 202 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: It's amazing he made it all the way to a hospital, 203 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: So you had a lot of chances. You had a 204 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 2: lot of chances to not fuck that up. 205 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: Man. 206 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 3: As soon as the other cops arrive on the seat, 207 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know, I just I just feel 208 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 3: so weird. 209 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, buddy, you you had an adrenaline drop because you panicked, 210 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 2: Like that is why you feel weird. 211 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 3: Like a lot always this like mirrors, the police fentanel things, 212 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: how they can like talk themselves into feeling into like 213 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 3: feeling symptoms. Yes, but all right, So Hernandez hadn't been 214 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 3: a cop for very long. He had he had no 215 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: prior law enforcement experience before joining this Florida Sheriff's department, 216 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: but he did attend to West Point and served as 217 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: a Special Forces Infantry officers in the Army for ten years. 218 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 3: So one could maybe assume that the deputy's outrageous behavior 219 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: was the result of some kind of PTSD from serving 220 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: as Special four. Like, maybe maybe I could kind of 221 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 3: explain some of what's going on here. 222 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 2: I had multiple people when I posted this on Twitter 223 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: be like, oh, this is maybe people with like PTSD 224 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: shouldn't be cops. And I had to be like, no, no. 225 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 3: No, Well see the funny thing about that is that 226 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 3: he never actually served in combat. 227 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 2: No, this guy flew a fucking desk, yeah, which, like 228 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: you need that in a war. But like this, this 229 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 2: man did not have any combat trauma that caused him 230 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: to react this way. 231 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 3: You know, like I totally I've had I've had PTSD. 232 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: You know, I've certainly gotten like I can get really 233 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 3: jumpy with certain sounds. 234 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is not that six months period where fireworks 235 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: made us all very unhappy. 236 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, like or like keys dropping was a big one 237 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: for me because it sounded like a tear guest canister 238 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: rolling on her bottles. 239 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 2: But you know when in the many times that I 240 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 2: had bottles fall near me and set me off, or 241 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: that fireworks went off near me and set me off, 242 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: I was often carrying a gun and what I never 243 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: did was empty at vaguely in the direction of a car. 244 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 3: So he never saw combat. He did claim that he 245 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 3: was aware of what suppressed gunfire sounded like, and he 246 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 3: affirmed that the noise he herd reminded him of suppressed gunfire. 247 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, bro, what the fuck? 248 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 3: Under questioning her Nada said that he did not perceive 249 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 3: any other sounds, visuals, or physical indicators of gunfire besides 250 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: the initial tapping sound and his upper torso feeling. In 251 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: the interview, he was asked why he decided to fall 252 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 3: onto the pavement, and he said, I'm not sure if 253 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 3: it was adrenaline or just what, but the numbness of 254 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 3: my legs and realizing, Okay, I'm going to be on 255 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 3: the ground, but also realizing the windows are right there, 256 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: you know, i need to be on the ground anyway, 257 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 3: so I'm not exposed. So yeah, and that just kind 258 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 3: of led to my legs just kind of gave out 259 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 3: on me. Fascinating. He then was asked to explain to 260 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 3: the two action roles he performed on the road, and 261 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 3: her D just replied, Uh, the. 262 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: Press STARNX at the same time was supposed to do 263 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: pretty much. 264 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 3: He said, uh, the rolling kind of reaction to what 265 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: was going on, and we realizing like my legs are 266 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 3: not working the way I need them to work right now, 267 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: but I can roll over to the next vehicle. So 268 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 3: that's kind of where I was trying to get to unquote. 269 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: Sure, okay, okay, bro. 270 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: So after his little action roles, this is where he 271 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 3: started yelling shots fired. He emptied his clip into the 272 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: car and told the sergeant that shots were coming from 273 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: this vehicle, and she began firing in the vehicle as well. 274 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 3: At what point Hernandez tried to move off to the 275 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: side because he was concerned about being shot by the 276 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: other cop. He says, when I was done engaging the vehicle, 277 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: I was trying to get off to the side over 278 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: there because I was worried about possibly having possibly me 279 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: being in her line of fire. 280 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 2: Now, sure, this is this is the first reasonable threat 281 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 2: that he has expressed. I would also be concerned about 282 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: them shooting me, and that is yes. 283 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 3: So, after Hernandez is an a explanation of events, the 284 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 3: investigator showed him video stills of an acorn coming into 285 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: frame and bouncing off the roof of his car. I'm 286 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 3: just gonna read directly from the from the report, quote, 287 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 3: Deputy Hernandez asked, acorn. Investigator Hogan answered, acorn, I'm quote amazing, amazing, 288 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: just an amazing sentence. 289 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: This is this is so perfectly how you would like 290 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: script it in a really good police procedural comedy. Like 291 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 2: if you had some A game writers on the team 292 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 2: and it's it's gonna take some really good you'd need 293 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 2: like the wire quality actors to pull those lines off. 294 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 2: Bunk and Bunk could have pulled them off right, Like. 295 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 3: There's two more lines I want I want to get 296 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: to before before we take an out of break here. 297 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 3: When asked if the sound he heard could have been 298 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 3: an acorn instead of supress gunfire, the deputy answered, quote, 299 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say no, because I mean, that's but 300 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 3: what ten seconds pause and speaking. What I heard three 301 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: second pause and speaking sounded almost like twelve second pause 302 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 3: and speaking. But I heard sounded what I think would 303 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: be louder than an acorn hitting the roof of the car. 304 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: But there's obviously an a chord hitting the roof of 305 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 3: a car unquote. 306 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: Amazing. Uh. 307 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: The investigator then had to ask herd d does if 308 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: he was in general familiar with the sound of acorns, 309 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,359 Speaker 3: which must be so embarrassing. 310 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: That is that is that is a low point in 311 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: your career. That is. 312 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: Hernad has said that he was. He was then asked 313 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 3: if the sound could have been what led him to 314 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 3: believe the car theft suspect shot him, to which the 315 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 3: deputy answered, it could be seven second pause and speaking, 316 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: but I don't think so, but it could be uncurt great. 317 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: So then Hernandez's lawyer said that they could maybe watch 318 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: the video again and see if see if the acorn 319 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: striking matches the time that he says that he heard 320 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 3: the sound, And then they deliberated for a little bit 321 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 3: and ultimately Hernandez refused to watch the video s second 322 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,880 Speaker 3: time once he was told it was an acorn. I mean, yeah, 323 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: come on, what's there to do understandable? 324 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: No, that's uh, that's that's going to really do some 325 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: damage to your self esteem right there. 326 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 3: Less than a month later, just a few days before 327 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 3: a second interview was scheduled, he quit the job. 328 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: So you know what first decision he's made them, I mean. 329 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, like, what what else can you do at this point? 330 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 2: This story starts with a bad cop, but it ends 331 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: with a good one. 332 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: Like imagine returning to work and everyone's gonna call you 333 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 3: like the acorn guy, Like you can't, you can't. It's 334 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 3: just an. 335 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 2: Anytime there's like a there's like a fucking acorn tree 336 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 2: anywhere new you get like you okay, man, okay, do 337 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 2: you need to take. 338 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: Him to call it? Did you call this? Hit the 339 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: watch out? Watch out? 340 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 2: One hundred, one hundred times a day. Guys would be 341 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: getting on his radio being like I just saw an acorn. 342 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 3: Dispatch, got a can you get in on a possible acorn? Negative? Negative? 343 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 4: That is a pine cone? No need for assistance, just 344 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 4: some gunfire. We're good, We're good, not an acorn. Repeat, 345 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,360 Speaker 4: We're safe, seene is safe. No acorns in sight. All right, 346 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 4: let's let's take it out of break and we will 347 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 4: return to hear about Sergeant Robert's recollection of events. Welcome 348 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 4: back to Acorn Cop streaming now on the Discovery Channel. 349 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 4: Two cops, one acorn. No survive, Actually no, thankfully everyone survived. 350 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 4: This would be much much, much less funny. 351 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: We would not be laughing about this now. There is 352 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 2: some permanent psychological damage done to the guy who was 353 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 2: shot at but not shot and that is unjust and sad, 354 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 2: yet not enough that we are not willing folks. You 355 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 2: have a right to laugh at something like this, you know, 356 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 2: even if there are some consequences to it. That's just 357 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: keeping yourself sane in this world. 358 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 3: So Sergeant Roberts was a member of the Sharf's department 359 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 3: for fifteen years. She has a bachelor's degree in criminology 360 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 3: from the Florida State University, so that's cool. She's been 361 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 3: teaching at the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission for 362 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 3: ten years. So I think one thing that led to 363 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: some of them thinking it could have been suppressed gunfire 364 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 3: is that in the threatening messages that the suspect had 365 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: shown to or had sent to his girlfriend, included was 366 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 3: a close up picture of this dark kind of gray 367 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 3: cylinder pressed up against the center of the dash in 368 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 3: his car. Less than two inches of the cylinder were visible. 369 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 3: No parts of a firearm could be seen. But they 370 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 3: believed that this was a suppressor, and the victim said 371 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 3: that he a suppressor. So I think that that's that 372 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: is one thing that happened in the interview kind of 373 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 3: or in the in the like exchange leading up to 374 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: this incident. But no one got any confirmation that he 375 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 3: had a gun on him. Again, he was searched two times. 376 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 3: There was no gun found on him. It is possible 377 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 3: to like hide a gun on you, It is much 378 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: more difficult to hide a gun with a suppressor. Like 379 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 3: that is that is a pretty a pretty big object. 380 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: They are they are larger like it. Basically doubles are 381 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: more than doubles the length of the firearm, and it 382 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 2: also does so in such a way that makes it 383 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: difficult to carry in a concealed fashion. 384 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: So when Sergeant Roberts was collecting an affidavit about the 385 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 3: stolen car, she said that she heard quote some type 386 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 3: of noise and shortly thereafter Jesse, who is Hernandez screaming? 387 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 3: Shots fired? Quote. It was loud enough that it got 388 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: my attention and made me think we're about to have 389 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 3: a fight with a prisoner or the suspect. Either he's 390 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 3: escaped somehow and Jesse is in a tussle with him. 391 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 3: I can't tell you he was that what it was, 392 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 3: but it made me look and then immediately heard Deputy 393 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 3: Hernandez screaming. Shots fired. So Sargent and Roberts right out 394 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 3: into the street. Quote. I saw that Hernandez was down. 395 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 3: He had his gun point to the back of his 396 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 3: patrol car. I was drawing my pistol and my magazine 397 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 3: that was in my meg pouch somehow flew out again. 398 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 3: Amazing police work. 399 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 2: These guys incredible stuff. That's someone who never practiced. 400 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, at which point I thought there was a malfunction. 401 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 3: I thought that I dropped the magazine somehow I hit 402 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 3: the mega release on my firearm, and that that was 403 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: the magazine that fell out. Turns out it wasn't. It 404 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: was the one from my meg pouch. 405 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 406 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,239 Speaker 3: At which point I think I fired. So you just 407 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 3: have magazines fly you freak out, Yeah, start pulling your trigger. 408 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say that last part extremely common experience. 409 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: Police officers are not well trained, and most of them 410 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 2: in terms of combat stuff, and most of them do 411 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 2: not shoot regularly. The FBI has done studies of like 412 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: people who kill police officers, and they nearly always train 413 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: way more often than the police officers they kill trained. 414 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: It's very Most cops are not putting one hundred and 415 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 2: fifty rounds a month downrange, and like, I fire three 416 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 2: hundred rounds a month in training, and I'm not particularly good. 417 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 2: That's what I consider like minimum level of competence. And 418 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: so it is extremely common in police shootings for the 419 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 2: officer to say I don't know how many I fired, 420 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: or I fired two shots and they fired seventeen. That 421 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: happens fun. Oftentimes even more than that, people will reload 422 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 2: and not realize that they reloaded and emptied a second 423 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 2: magazine because in an actual violent situation, and it is 424 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 2: for that lady, I will say that she just knows 425 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 2: that her partner is emptying his firearm. So for her, 426 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 2: she's this is less unreasonable, right, It is. 427 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: More complicated for Sergeant Roberts. But I think it also 428 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 3: points to some of the inherent problems with policing. 429 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: Oh good god, yes, and the way. 430 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: Police are trained, Like the how quickly it was for 431 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 3: her to start fight, firing at a suspect who's locked 432 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: inside of a patrol car, who she knows has been 433 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 3: searched multiple times. 434 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: And who she has not seen shooting. 435 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, she has not seen any gunfire, She's not seen 436 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 3: any evidence of that. She's heard one man screaming. And 437 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 3: how quickly they decide to use lethal force is I 438 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 3: think very notable. Quote. I fired at the vehicle because 439 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:21,679 Speaker 3: I saw Deputy Hernandez down on the ground and he 440 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 3: tells me that shots are fired and he's hit, and 441 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 3: it scared the hell out of me. I thought I 442 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,360 Speaker 3: was watching him be killed, which is yeah, it gets 443 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 3: to like how they are trained to constantly be in 444 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 3: fear for their lives, their fellow officers' lives. Quote. It 445 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: was the patrol car that was where the threat was 446 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 3: coming from. I'm thinking, we've we missed the gun and 447 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 3: the pack down somehow he shot Jesse from the car 448 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 3: and Jesse's down. Shots are being fired. I couldn't tell 449 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: you exactly where they were coming from, but I fired 450 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 3: because of my concern. 451 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,719 Speaker 2: On gut and you get this is a thing that 452 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: does not get represented in fiction. People don't like to 453 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: talk about it. This happens with soldiers too. I have 454 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: a friend who was shot in the leg by a 455 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 2: fifty count by one of our fifty cows one of 456 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: his guy's guns, because they were told anyone from this 457 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 2: building over that you see on the thermal scope is 458 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: an enemy. They saw him on the thermal scope and 459 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 2: they lit him up. It was just a series of 460 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 2: bad calls being made and nobody checking to confirm, because 461 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 2: you're in an actual chaotic, dangerous situation, checking to confirm 462 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: is there actually a threat in that area? They're just shooting, 463 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: you know. It's people panic all the time. It's one 464 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: of the problems with sending people with guns into neighborhoods. 465 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 2: Like this is part of why the way we do policing, 466 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: it's such a bad idea because there's no way to 467 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 2: train out all of this. You can train out acorn 468 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: guy maybe maybe, but they didn't, but you cannot train 469 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 2: out people panicking and doing things with guns that can 470 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 2: never be taken back. 471 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: Well. 472 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 3: And one other aspect is like Hernandez starts firing his 473 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: gun very shortly after he's yelling shots fired. Like getting 474 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: that linear cause of events can be tricky because like 475 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 3: you are hearing gunfire at the same time you were 476 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 3: hearing him yell shots fired because he is shooting. And 477 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 3: Roberts said that she wasn't sure if she or her 478 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,920 Speaker 3: Endaz even shot first. Like all of your memory in 479 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 3: these instances can get really kind of blurry, like like 480 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 3: all of these like high stress scenarios, it actually can 481 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 3: be hard to remember the exact manner of. 482 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: Oh, yes, easily, yes, she. 483 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 3: Said quote I'm seeing him on the ground yelling shots fired. 484 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 3: I'm hit. I'm hit. I thought I thought I saw 485 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: a deputy get murdered. I was close enough to see 486 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 3: his facial expression that was fear, anxiety. It was it 487 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 3: was horrible. I'm seeing him kind of trip fall, stumble 488 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 3: something behind the vehicle. At some point he's able to 489 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: kind of post up, but he was stumbling, crawling on 490 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 3: the ground. I don't know how to explain it. He 491 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 3: wasn't standing up straight, he was not in a tactical position. 492 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 3: Was he was off as momentum, he was off balance, 493 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 3: he was standing behind that car. It did not look 494 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 3: like he was in control of himself. 495 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, yeah, that's like what she is saying. I'm 496 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: not gonna say this is like a good response, but 497 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 2: it makes sense to me that she reacted the way 498 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 2: she did. Most people would write which is why most 499 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 2: people should not be given firearms and legal immunity to 500 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 2: do whatever with them, right, But most people would have 501 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 2: reacted in a why broadly similar manner without training, you know, 502 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: without training and experience. 503 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 3: Now, there's one way that she describes his kind of 504 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 3: like weird stumbling on the ground quote. The auditory tone 505 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 3: in his voice was terror. The best way to describe 506 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 3: it was like watching a baby giraffe trying to walk 507 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 3: for the first time. I sat of the road. 508 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 2: Oh that is that is going to echo in his 509 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 2: mind until the day he dies. 510 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 3: So baby giraffe something learning to walk for the first time. 511 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 3: Do you know what else is learning to walk? I 512 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: don't know. That doesn't really work. Now. Do you know 513 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 3: what else could perceive acorns as a threat to business? 514 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, we I mean the one thing all of 515 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 2: our sponsors agree on is that acorns and all trees 516 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: should be eliminated in the interest of better profit margins. 517 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: So dangerous, kill the natural world, live free. I want 518 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 2: to know one other thing as I'm talking about, like 519 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: why they I'm not surprised they reacted this way, and 520 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 2: what it says to me about like how I think. 521 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 2: Like I think that a group of moderately competent civilians 522 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 2: with concealed firearms would have responded better than both officers 523 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: in this situation, large not for the reason that they're 524 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 2: more smarter or better trained, because they probably aren't, but 525 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: because they go through the world carrying a gun knowing 526 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 2: that if anything they do with that gun, they're legally 527 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: accountable for every shot fired they're accountable for, which is 528 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 2: a different mind state than what police are trained to do, 529 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 2: which is the instant you feel endangered, you should draw 530 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 2: and be prepared to shoot or shoot immediately, because nothing 531 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 2: matters more than you getting home, and you have qualified 532 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: immunity on your side, right. 533 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, which allows you to interpret a very quiet tapping 534 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: sound as a lethal threat to your life. Now. Sergeant 535 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 3: Roberts said that she did observe Hernandez move himself into 536 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 3: kind of a kneeling shooting stance on his left knee 537 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 3: with his right foot planted in front, but still quote, 538 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 3: it seemed like his motor functions were not operating properly 539 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 3: from what I saw. He told me, again, shots are fire. 540 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 3: He's completely out in the open. No one would think 541 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: that's a good place to take a knee to tactically fire. 542 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: So he was. 543 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 3: He was still tried to respond in some way, but 544 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: still very very baby draft coded. 545 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: It seems yeah, yeah, I mean that seems like a 546 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 2: constant thing for this fella. 547 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: So. Roberts also admitted that she did not ever see 548 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 3: the suspect. She could not see inside the patrol car, 549 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: and she couldn't hear anything coming from that area. Quote. 550 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: If there would have been something going on in that vehicle, 551 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: I don't know if I nescessarily would have heard it 552 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: was I hearing or seeing the windows be blasted? 553 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 2: Out. 554 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 3: No, I couldn't see the right side of the vehicle, 555 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 3: but based on the circumstances, I'm thinking that somehow he 556 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 3: shot Jesse from the back and it had struck him 557 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 3: some way, somehow. I don't know if the individual's gotten 558 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 3: out of the car and it's on the other side, 559 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: you know, like he's escaped somehow. I couldn't see if 560 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 3: the door was wide open. I don't know if he's 561 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 3: gotten out and they've had a little tussle. Is he's 562 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 3: shooting from the back of the car. All these things 563 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 3: are going through my head, but the main thing is 564 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 3: that he's in the back of the car. He's got 565 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: a gun and we missed it, and somehow he shot 566 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 3: Deputy Hernandez. So she also couldn't remember who shot first, 567 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 3: but she denied the notion that she started shooting because 568 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 3: she thought Hernandez fired his gun first. She was confident 569 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 3: in her her own use of gunfire before she could 570 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 3: tell that Jesse was firing. 571 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting quote. 572 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: The threat was someone had shot him. We had an 573 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 3: arm suspect from the back of the vehicle. Jesse was shot. 574 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:56,719 Speaker 3: I'm watching him, you know, fumble on the road. How 575 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 3: do I give him more time. How do I draw 576 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: the attention to me? How do I save him? I 577 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 3: thought I was watching him get murdered, the tone in 578 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 3: his voice, look on his face, the physical reactions. I'm thinking, 579 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 3: we missed the gun and this is it. How do 580 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 3: I get to Jesse to save him. She talks about 581 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 3: how she quote couldn't let him be shot again again, 582 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 3: as all this is like so confident that this has happened, 583 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 3: and they're so confident in their own use of force. 584 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 3: She was also concerned that if the suspect got away, 585 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 3: other people's lives could be in danger, like his girlfriend 586 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 3: who was nearby and the friend who was talking to 587 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 3: police about their domestic issue. Quote, there was a threat 588 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 3: in the back of the patrol car. I had a 589 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 3: deputy that was on the ground that was still a 590 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 3: threat to Jesse's life. I needed to provide him some 591 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 3: sort of cover or bring the attention to me. I'm 592 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 3: watching him die. I've got to do something. I've got 593 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: to do something. There's that just like overall constantly throughout 594 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 3: this interview with the Professional Standards Investigation, she's just constantly 595 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 3: saying how she thought that this man was gonna die. 596 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: That's why she responded the way she did. Like she 597 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 3: talks about how she can't render aid if there's still 598 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 3: a threat, she has to like get regain control the situation. 599 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: All of those are reasonable things to say. Yeah, all 600 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 2: of those are reasonable things to say in a ReHO gunfight. 601 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: Yes, it's just a little bit less less valid when 602 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: the ending incident is an acorn falling on a roof. Yes, 603 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 3: and you're shooting directly at a man. 604 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: Who's your own car been searched two. 605 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 3: Times and is trapped inside, who has handcuffs on. Like. 606 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 3: So Yeah, after both cops fired off this large valley 607 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 3: of bullets, they both repositioned behind cover, called in more backup, 608 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 3: and Roberts tended to manage the situation and the other 609 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 3: individuals in the area and eventually check in on Deputy Hernandez. Quote, 610 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 3: the threat was still a threat until we were able 611 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 3: to remove him from the car. Again, they're not viewing 612 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 3: him as a person, They're viewing him as a threat. 613 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: Like that is that is like he's no longer like 614 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 3: a human being. He is he is a threat. That 615 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 3: is what he represents now. 616 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that is that is how they're trained 617 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 2: to talk, and that is by the way like in 618 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 2: a court of law, how you should talk, right, you don't. 619 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 2: You would not say if you were involved in a 620 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 2: legal defensive shooting, I shot to kill, you would say 621 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 2: I shot to stop the threat. That is like how 622 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: people are trained, because that's what plays best in a court. Yeah. 623 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 3: No, she all of her interview is very polished. She's 624 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 3: she's like very she's she's been a caught for fifteen years, 625 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 3: like she yeah, is she knows what she's saying here. 626 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 2: Yes, she's been coached before. Yeah, she's she's aware. 627 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 3: So after they were able to get to cover, she 628 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: called in more resources. Quote, that's when we were able 629 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: to treat it as more of a barricaded armed suspect situation. 630 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 3: This poor dude, Yeah, like what do you do? Like 631 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 3: you're hanging in the back of the car like everywhere. 632 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 2: Like like it seems like this guy is guilty of 633 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 2: having a little bit of having an emotional breakdown with 634 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 2: his partner and doing things he should not have done, 635 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 2: none of which the penalty for is getting shot at 636 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 2: while strapped into a car. 637 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, he stole his girlfriend's car, He sent her threatening messages. 638 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 3: He was described as being a massive in the past yeah, yeah, 639 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: there's bad things, but that doesn't mean you can get 640 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 3: executed by police because they hurt an a chord like. 641 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 2: No, that is not that is not what our society 642 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: has deemed the punishment for those options, for those behaviors 643 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 2: should be. 644 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 3: So Roberts closed this interview by saying, quote, I don't 645 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 3: think there's anything funny about it. It just went from 646 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 3: zero to one hundred within the drop of a hat. 647 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: I know we talk about it all the time, but 648 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 3: when it does, it does. And she's talking about how, 649 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: like how fast the situation escalates, like from a very 650 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 3: standard interaction towards you're now multiple people are shooting, like 651 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 3: this is it happens so quickly. It went from zero 652 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 3: to one hundred within the drop of a hat. 653 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that is what happens with shootings. 654 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 3: She knew that Hernandez was prior military and when in 655 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 3: training Hernandez was training on her shift, she described him 656 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 3: as quote a very squared away person, somebody that if 657 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 3: they tell you something, you don't question it. I wanted 658 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 3: Jesse on my shift. When I observed him in high 659 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 3: stressful situations, he reacted appropriately, He wasn't afraid to respond 660 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 3: and he's I think that last part is certainly true. 661 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 3: He was not afraid to respond well. 662 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 2: And this is why, again, when the response for a 663 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 2: lot of people when I would talk about this to 664 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 2: them is suspecting it had something to do with his 665 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: military training that he responded this way. Soldiers aren't trained 666 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: this way. Again, this is so content in the field. 667 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 2: But soldiers are generally trained to not air on the 668 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 2: side of opening fire blindly because war crimes are a 669 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 2: thing they're concerned about and they have a sense of 670 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: professional pride against Again, not to say that they do 671 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 2: not kill innocent people. They do all the time, because 672 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: that's what war is. But this is not the way. 673 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 2: So this is police training. This guy's bias towards reacting 674 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: this way is the result of police training, not special 675 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 2: forces training. 676 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 3: She kind of reaffirmed her trust in Hernandez as a 677 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 3: person who was like reliable, saying when they were on 678 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 3: night shift during training, quote, he acted appropriately, He did 679 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 3: not lose control of his emotions. I have a lot 680 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 3: of respect for him. Actually, when he tells you something, 681 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 3: it's not something like are you sure you know he 682 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 3: tell you something and that's what's happening, or that's what happened. 683 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 3: I don't think there's anything malicious about what he did. 684 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 3: I'm not mad at him. I'm not upset about it 685 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 3: because I truly believe that he thought that's what was happening, unquote, 686 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 3: which is again, it. 687 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: Just i'd be pissed you almost, Like. 688 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 3: I don't if if I was tricked into almost killing someone, 689 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 3: I don't. I don't understand this reaction. 690 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 2: Like it's it's this thin blue line shit, right. 691 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, like like they have to group together so so hard. 692 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's and it's like this guy got you 693 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 2: into a situation where you could have shot a child, 694 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 2: Like I would never forgive someone who put me in 695 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 2: that position for no good reason, right, Like it's why 696 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 2: that's such such an insane response to me, Sopran. 697 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 3: She has to keep affirming that he has like a 698 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 3: good judgment, and it's it's so bizarre, like he very 699 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 3: clearly doesn't. Dude, you'll watch the video. Oh, it'd be. 700 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 2: One thing if like they were under fire and he 701 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: shot and his bullet went wide and hit a civilian 702 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 2: and it's no, that's like absolutely just a horrible accident. 703 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 2: But like his judgment wasn't bad. It was just a 704 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,439 Speaker 2: terrible situation. This is so different, and that she's still 705 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 2: going to bat for him. Says everything about cop cops, 706 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: cop brain. 707 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a few lines that I want to read 708 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 3: before we close out here that are in the conclusion 709 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 3: of the of the report. 710 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 2: Can't wait. 711 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 3: They describe Hernandez's legs as quote, stopped working correctly. But 712 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 3: I think it's just a really funny way to phrase it. 713 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: I would describe his brain that way. 714 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 3: But yeah, his legs weren't responding as he intended. But 715 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 3: there was no evidence to support anything impacted Deputy Hernandez. 716 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 3: No defects are found on his uniform or his blistering 717 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 3: vest to support the impact. Hernandez's response was not objectively reasonable, 718 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 3: so they they ruled that hernandez His response was not 719 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 3: objectively reasonable, that it was not appropriate. 720 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 2: Positively surprised about that, but. 721 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 3: Found Sergeant Roberts response as being reasonable because she believed 722 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 3: Hernandez has been shot because of his tone of voice, 723 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 3: his stumbling, attempts to move and stand up, and as 724 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 3: a parent quote lack of control over his body. 725 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would not call it. I wouldn't say her 726 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: response is reasonable. I would say her response is what 727 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: I would expect most people to do. 728 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 3: No, or it is reasonable in terms of how police 729 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,280 Speaker 3: procedure operates, like she followed the correct protocols for interacting 730 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 3: as a police officer. 731 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't believe under the law she's she would 732 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 2: have been found liable by any court. 733 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 3: No, they said. Quote. Roberts found out Hernandez to be 734 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 3: a reliable depity that she could trust. She had no 735 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 3: reason to doubt what Hernandez had been telling her. She 736 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 3: described the auditory tone of Hernandez's voice as terror, the 737 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 3: look on his face as being quote consistent with being 738 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 3: in fear. I love that kind of cop speak, consistent 739 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 3: with being in fear. 740 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, he looked scared. Yeah amazing. Oh, I do want 741 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 2: to go over one thing before we come out, because 742 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 2: this is again something I've been asked by people, and 743 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 2: you know, maybe this is actionable. If you ever found 744 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 2: yourself handcuffed in the back of a police car and 745 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 2: they start shooting at you, you should know how this 746 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: guy survived. Because reading the interview with him, he was like, 747 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 2: as soon as I realized they were shooting at me, 748 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,920 Speaker 2: I like flung myself down sideways and laid flat. I 749 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 2: think in front of the seat. He might have been 750 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 2: on the seat. I would get in front of the 751 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 2: seat if you can. But the reason he survived is 752 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 2: that handguns. Number one, police carry hollow points in their handguns, 753 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 2: which is a bullet that has a hole in the 754 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 2: slug the thing that goes into somebody. And the reason 755 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 2: why you make a hollow point is that a hollow 756 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 2: point expands immediately upon impact, so it doesn't penetrate as well. 757 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,400 Speaker 2: It will not go through armor, and it will not 758 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 2: go through objects very well. But when it hits meat, 759 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 2: it expands and so instead of going through a body, 760 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 2: it stops and it imparts all of the force from 761 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: the bullet into that body, so it is better at 762 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: stopping people. But what that means is when someone is 763 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 2: shooting at something like a car and shooting into the 764 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: back of a car, and you have that whole reinforced 765 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 2: trunk and backseat of a police car to go through, 766 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 2: those nine millimeters rounds are unlikely to penetrate very far. 767 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 2: So if you are laying down in front of the 768 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 2: seat or flat on the seat, your odds of not 769 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: getting hit are pretty good. Like he had. I'm not 770 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 2: surprised he survived. Having done what he did. You know, 771 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 2: if you're sitting up and you've got body parts that 772 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 2: are like in view with of the windows, you're very 773 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,479 Speaker 2: likely to get hit. But because he did what he did, 774 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 2: he essentially saved his own life, is what it's my 775 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 2: interpretation of what I've read. 776 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean it's it is a terrifying scenario 777 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 3: that there was. There was an instant recently of this 778 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 3: officer who made his first ever arrest. He had two 779 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 3: suspects locked in the back and he got distracted about driving. 780 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 3: He drove his car off the road into a lake, 781 00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 3: and both of the suspects drowned. 782 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 2: Jesus fucking Christ, Like. 783 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 3: This is this is like all these things point towards 784 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 3: just inherent problems with the policing system. 785 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: Cops bad avoid at all costs. 786 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 3: It's terrifying, Like it's it is like these people can 787 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 3: just act like this can kidnap, people can do all 788 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 3: these things and face basically no repercussions at least turn 789 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 3: end as is no longer a cop, which is good, 790 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,800 Speaker 3: but like that doesn't fix any of the underlying problems 791 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 3: with training that cause people to react like this in 792 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 3: the face of a squirrel armed with an acorn being 793 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 3: the most dangerous thing that you can encounter. 794 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very bad police work. Avoid cops. 795 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, pretty much, pretty much. So, Yeah, that is 796 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 3: that is what we have to say on the acorn 797 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:44,800 Speaker 3: involved shooting. 798 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. 799 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 3: Watch out for acorns, watch out for droops. Also dangerous. 800 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 3: They can fall off a tree. 801 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 802 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 3: Pine cones can sometimes be lethal. 803 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 2: Oh they call those the widow makers. 804 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 3: Eyes on the sky folks. You never know, all right 805 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 3: that Bye? 806 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: Hey, It could Happen here as a production of cool 807 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit 808 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on 809 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 810 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated 811 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,760 Speaker 1: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.