Speaker 1: Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my own look over
Speaker 1: there is that culture. Yes, goodness wow, lost culture ding dong.
Speaker 1: Lost culture is just calling beautiful day here in New
Speaker 1: York City where we both live.
Speaker 2: Likely Story, by the way, couple things, it is a
Speaker 2: beautiful day in New York City.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Also, this is a perfect little addendum to really anything
Speaker 2: Matt is bringing back. We're both bringing back likely story.
Speaker 1: Likely story is back. As a phrase, you can sort
Speaker 1: of tack it onto anything. Yeah, whenever anyone says anything
Speaker 1: that's a little bit questionable, you can just turn to
Speaker 1: let's say your friend, like I would turn to bone
Speaker 1: and I would say likely story, and it's gonna bring
Speaker 1: down the house.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. There's also an element of like auto commentary
Speaker 2: where you can say something and then at it yourself,
Speaker 2: like likely story, Likely Story, Like.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it to the gym today, Likely likely Story.
Speaker 2: It really is so personal. Powerful power verse, power verse.
Speaker 2: It's a perfect little spice to anything you say if
Speaker 2: you want to sort of seem interesting. Listen, something's going
Speaker 2: on with me. I am going through this crazy bout
Speaker 2: of social anxiety, and I don't want it to be
Speaker 2: another like woe is me Bowen moment. But I something's
Speaker 2: going on just as the weather, well, I was gonna say,
Speaker 2: as the weather's warming up, my social anxiety is picking
Speaker 2: in likely story.
Speaker 1: Well, that's just that's just how it goes.
Speaker 2: I think totally.
Speaker 1: I'm way more socially anxious in Los Angeles than I
Speaker 1: am in New York City.
Speaker 2: That tracks likely story.
Speaker 1: Likely story. And I think it's because in New York City,
Speaker 1: and I'm also talking about my girls Brooklyn and Queens. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm roping everybody in Yeah, there's sort of like escape routes,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And also, like in New York,
Speaker 1: there's so many different kinds of people, where in LA
Speaker 1: there's not, and so that's sort of awesome.
Speaker 2: Well, our guest happens to be there, and he's making
Speaker 2: a face.
Speaker 1: And here's my thing about the guest, one of my
Speaker 1: favorite occupants of Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: Ugh, that is high praise, question mark.
Speaker 1: Not only is it a likely story, it's a true story.
Speaker 2: That is really really nice. I agree. I've never seen
Speaker 2: our guest in like an LA context.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure that were I to see him.
Speaker 1: He doesn't really give LA.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, yeah, let's get into that
Speaker 2: with him, because I feel like, how does that work?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. And it's crazy because we're literally
Speaker 1: talking to him in the most la atmosphere you can
Speaker 1: possibly be in, which is Vanessa Hudgens's old home. So
Speaker 1: the guest owns Vanessa Hudgens's old home. It's now his home.
Speaker 1: Likely story, And it's actually kind of crazy because he
Speaker 1: lugs onto the zoom and he's sort of is sitting
Speaker 1: in this sort of what I can only call gorgeous setting,
Speaker 1: and I complimented him on the wallpaper and he said,
Speaker 1: I didn't pick this out. Vanessa Hudgens picked this out.
Speaker 1: And that's just one of the many topics we're going
Speaker 1: to get into today's episode of Lost Cultures US with
Speaker 1: our guests.
Speaker 2: And that's a likely storybow absolutely, I guess we can
Speaker 2: ask him. But I wonder if this is the house
Speaker 2: where she said people are gonna die. I shouldn't be
Speaker 2: doing I should be doing this, I should be doing Wait,
Speaker 2: we have to pulp the video. We have to find
Speaker 2: out where she said that in the home. I'm sure
Speaker 2: he knows. I'm sure he's like locked it down he does.
Speaker 2: Look it is a cute little smile. He's nodding a
Speaker 2: cute little smile, and there's a.
Speaker 1: Listen. Call me David Letterman, because our guest really needs
Speaker 1: no introduction. Podcasting legend, podcasting pioneer, podcasting curator. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm from Pods of America and love her leave it
Speaker 1: among so many other things. I mean, this is a
Speaker 1: this is an icon podcast.
Speaker 2: Icons, podcast icon god, one of those people who's like
Speaker 2: dauntingly funny, you.
Speaker 1: Know, hashtag actually smart in a way.
Speaker 2: Smart I know, I know. So we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 2: We're going to see how its I might just clam
Speaker 2: up and really not speak the whole time.
Speaker 1: Well, you're so shy. Why you're so shy? What do
Speaker 1: you think? And we talked earlier about much weed.
Speaker 2: It's that it's I don't know, like I find myself
Speaker 2: losing self concept, propri reception, I don't know how I'm
Speaker 2: moving around in the world. It's that I need to
Speaker 2: talk to my therapist about it.
Speaker 1: Google's proprioception.
Speaker 2: Therapist says proprio reception once Bowen Yang uses it for
Speaker 2: the rest of his life. That's where I got it
Speaker 2: from my therapist. To use that on me.
Speaker 1: Likely story, Likely Story. Okay, so I think at this
Speaker 1: point is the sort of part we bring him the guest. Everyone,
Speaker 1: please welcome into your ears John love it? Wow?
Speaker 4: Wow? You know you listen to this show and you
Speaker 4: hear about people sitting in silence while you do whatever
Speaker 4: it is that you just did, and then you you
Speaker 4: live it for yourself and it's different.
Speaker 1: Now was it better than you ever could have dreamed?
Speaker 1: Was it better than in your liquid dreams? O Town?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was sure. It was better than my liquid dreams.
Speaker 4: You know what goes well with likely story is must
Speaker 4: be nice.
Speaker 1: Oh oh wow, that's my story. Okay, wow, thanks for
Speaker 1: collabing with us.
Speaker 2: Must be nice is good and for some reason, I
Speaker 2: also I switched that out with and it's not quite
Speaker 2: as good, But I switched that out with pretty cool, right,
Speaker 2: something like that? Just a nice little Salt Bay like
Speaker 2: dash of something.
Speaker 1: Can I throw something out there instead of how about
Speaker 1: them apples? You just say them apples?
Speaker 4: Now? Really you don't like that? As I like it?
Speaker 4: It's really good. I mean, could you give us an example?
Speaker 4: Could you? I don't, I'm not trying. I don't. I'm
Speaker 4: not seeing it.
Speaker 1: When people see that this episode's coming out and John
Speaker 1: Lovett is finally on Lost Culture restas after years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, put a big fucking underline under Finally Jesus Christ
Speaker 4: was Pat Reagan for the seventh time. Not available. I
Speaker 4: don't understand, my goodness, Pat's amazing, but he has been
Speaker 4: He must have been busy. He must have been busy.
Speaker 2: You know, he's been on recently, and this is first
Speaker 2: time Los Culture guessn love.
Speaker 1: Well, John will sort of nag me sometimes because I'm
Speaker 1: frequently on love it or leave it, and I love
Speaker 1: coming on, especially to play my character of masculinity expert
Speaker 1: Brad Turbo. That's kind of my favorite thing I do
Speaker 1: on the show. But you're always sort of nagging me
Speaker 1: because you're like, yeah, well, this is I guess you're
Speaker 1: eight hundredth time on the show and I've not been on.
Speaker 1: But I always used to say I would like to
Speaker 1: wait for us all to do it in person.
Speaker 4: Are which is fair? Which a weird thing to say
Speaker 4: that not do that.
Speaker 1: Likely story?
Speaker 2: Likely story? Well, I don't think this is any lesser
Speaker 2: of a sort of reality than like if we were
Speaker 2: in person. It would be best if we were all
Speaker 2: in Vanessa's house.
Speaker 4: That's what I was just that would be great, And
Speaker 4: just to go back to what you were saying, Yes,
Speaker 4: this is where she said that thing that like people
Speaker 4: are gonna die, but like I have to go to
Speaker 4: the mall that it happened here, it happened upstairs. Here,
Speaker 4: I know the room. I found it, you found it.
Speaker 4: I found the spot.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So did you see the house an architectural didst because
Speaker 1: she famously showed this house an architectural digest, which I
Speaker 1: then heard is something that celebrities often do when they
Speaker 1: want to sell their home. Ah, are you confirming this
Speaker 1: is the case.
Speaker 4: I didn't know that either, But that's that's why they
Speaker 4: do it. Look, my eyes are open. Yeah, here's the thing.
Speaker 4: You have to stay woke and.
Speaker 2: That is the thing.
Speaker 4: And that is the thing. But yes, apparently when they
Speaker 4: do these house tours and they're like, I can't wait
Speaker 4: for this tree to grow so big that my children
Speaker 4: can play under it, they're full of shit. It's about
Speaker 4: to be listed. It's going to be listed that very day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now correct me if I'm wrong. She had sort
Speaker 1: of an interesting mural next to the pool. Did you
Speaker 1: keep that?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: You didn't gone painted right over it, painted right over it.
Speaker 4: She was so proud of it's gone.
Speaker 2: Oh man, And you held the brush yourself.
Speaker 4: But I replaced it with nothing.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 4: Oh so it's just a wall. It's just white painted
Speaker 4: over right, You're gone.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 4: I don't know's I don't know that I'm the hero
Speaker 4: in this part of our conversation.
Speaker 1: I think is that you're way more boring than Vanessa Hudgens,
Speaker 1: who seems bad and awesome and cool, and you are
Speaker 1: painting over her escape geez.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you one other thing, which is she was
Speaker 4: getting so much pr crap mail to this house from brands,
Speaker 4: so so much, and for weeks, if not months, her
Speaker 4: assistant would come like every two weeks and fill up
Speaker 4: her Mini Cooper to the brim with boxes. And they've
Speaker 4: barely slowed down, but the assistant has stopped replying. And
Speaker 4: so I have boxes and boxes of just free crap
Speaker 4: that's for Vanessa Hudgens in my basement. And when my
Speaker 4: mother and sister come, they call it the mall. They
Speaker 4: go down there and they like, they like, ooh so wrong.
Speaker 1: You know, he's store twenty worth of lamaire.
Speaker 4: It's nothing that nice. It's like Boba ice cream and
Speaker 4: Instagram sunglasses. It's just absolute. It's an unending of crap
Speaker 4: that people are mailingked in the hopes that just maybe
Speaker 4: it might appear in a video in which a Vanessa
Speaker 4: Hudgens is saying that the pandemic isn't a big deal.
Speaker 2: Right, the mall came to me. I didn't have the
Speaker 2: people didn't have to die, right, Yeah, came to me.
Speaker 2: You're in boxing these, You're in boxing all the boxes.
Speaker 4: I feel okay, Well, I'm just wondering if I'm I
Speaker 4: would say that I accidentally opened them all thinking they're
Speaker 4: for me. I think I should say something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but more thing jump scare when you get a
Speaker 1: package and it says Vanessa Hudgens on it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, does I ever say Vanessa Ann Hudgens,
Speaker 1: because famously, for a while there she was Vanessa Ann Hudgeons.
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure. It's actually at this point disappointing.
Speaker 4: It's just like it's like, ugh, it's gonna be another
Speaker 4: like size zero bit of a leisure. You know what
Speaker 4: am I supposed to do with this? Right?
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know, you could make some wal
Speaker 2: art for the mural. Yeah, the erstwhile mural.
Speaker 1: She is I think maybe one of the most famous
Speaker 1: ads ever, which is why I'm still asking about it.
Speaker 1: Eleven minutes the podcast. Now, do you ever go into
Speaker 1: that area that's sort of not the backyard, but it's
Speaker 1: next to the backyard, And because I remember she said
Speaker 1: that sometimes she would use that to just frolic and
Speaker 1: just dance around and sometimes even do dance contests with
Speaker 1: her friends. So I'm wondering, do you ever get you know,
Speaker 1: Favre over there to kind of like do a dance
Speaker 1: contes dance?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we do a lot of that. We do interpretive
Speaker 4: dance night. You know, he's surprisingly limber for someone from Boston,
Speaker 4: and so yeah, I mean that's that's why that was
Speaker 4: what excited me about it, the opportunity to have a
Speaker 4: space for dancing.
Speaker 1: Right, do you ever even go back there be real?
Speaker 4: Of course I do, of course I do, And I'm
Speaker 4: so lucky to be here. Of course, I believe that
Speaker 4: the previous owner was Gary Oldman, and so there was
Speaker 4: a lot of like big nineties screens about, you know,
Speaker 4: like from an era when from a pre iPhone pre
Speaker 4: iPad era. Ye, it was like very like one off
Speaker 4: big screens with buttons that don't do anything anymore, that
Speaker 4: connect to nothing.
Speaker 2: You know, a doc for like a second generation iPod.
Speaker 2: Yeah physical wheel Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very Gary Oldman very that. You know. Well, I
Speaker 1: would die to know what Vanessa Hudgens' WiFi name was. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is a vulnerability hour. What is the name of
Speaker 1: your Wi Fi thing? And what is the password to
Speaker 1: your wife side?
Speaker 4: I will say so. When I moved in, I said
Speaker 4: hello to the neighbors, and one of the neighbors said, wow,
Speaker 4: that's thank you for saying hi, and made a point
Speaker 4: that Gary Oldman never talked to any money. And they
Speaker 4: have an inside of my cross the street neighbor have
Speaker 4: an impression that they do of Gary Oldman because they
Speaker 4: saw Gary Oldman on the street and they said to
Speaker 4: Gary Oldman, Hey, we're gonna have a barbecue. You know
Speaker 4: you're on your neighbor do you want to stop by?
Speaker 4: And he did this. It's not going to work on
Speaker 4: the podcast, but we can describe it. He went like this.
Speaker 4: He went like this, Oh okay.
Speaker 2: So what love it's doing is he's putting his both
Speaker 2: arms out, sort of doing like a wave that you know,
Speaker 2: a decline, but shaking his head with a puckered face.
Speaker 4: It's pushing the event so far away like this, you know,
Speaker 4: like no, no, no, I'm not going to that. And
Speaker 4: they apparently it's become an inside joke that that's what
Speaker 4: you do to decline something in that home, a gesture
Speaker 4: Gary Oldman made probably ten years ago, right, but.
Speaker 2: Doesn't that I mean, sorry to say likely story like
Speaker 2: that just tracks as Gary Oldman too.
Speaker 4: Me. Yeah, it does well. When she did it, it was like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I can see it. It was exactly
Speaker 4: you could see the ormans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well Gary Oldman is such an amazing actor,
Speaker 1: and I'm so happy that we've arrived in the part
Speaker 1: of the podcast where we talk at length about his filmography.
Speaker 1: What's your Wi Fi thing's name? Because you didn't answer
Speaker 1: that question and totally difference.
Speaker 2: Just say the network if you feel comfortable, but you
Speaker 2: don't have to indulge me.
Speaker 1: That's for Little Culture number eighty eight. You don't have
Speaker 1: to indulge.
Speaker 2: You don't have to indulge man.
Speaker 4: It is named after a video game that's all same.
Speaker 1: What is it Boen's hard as our option.
Speaker 4: I'll know it's named after a game called Outer Wilds.
Speaker 4: Do you ever play Outer Wilds?
Speaker 2: Oh? I never played Outer wild Gotta play Out of Wild's.
Speaker 2: Wait what is that? What's the genre?
Speaker 4: That was a a perni game is like a very
Speaker 4: small game where not Outer Worlds.
Speaker 2: Game.
Speaker 4: This is Outer Wilds, which is different?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, yes, okay, great, And then it looks
Speaker 2: like the person is like from from BioShock, but it's
Speaker 2: just someone in like a what do you call that
Speaker 2: a suit? A suit, spacesuit, a spacesuit, subsuit or something something.
Speaker 2: I I know for a fact that I'm not alone
Speaker 2: in my sort of gay gamer reality, but I feel
Speaker 2: like it's hard to like find community among other homosexual
Speaker 2: men about the kinds of video games we like to
Speaker 2: play because it feels at this point so individualized and
Speaker 2: there is I think video games are like one of
Speaker 2: the last places where there is monoculture, and yet even
Speaker 2: there it's sort of fragmenting, just as any other media.
Speaker 4: Well, and you think it's a similar problem. You know,
Speaker 4: there there's more experimentation, and there's I do think, kind
Speaker 4: of more innovation in what a game can be there's
Speaker 4: just more variability. You can have a game like Modern Warfare,
Speaker 4: and then you can have a game where you never
Speaker 4: press a button and you just explore a world reading
Speaker 4: letters about a person who died. You know, Like that's
Speaker 4: a pretty big range. But I do think like there's
Speaker 4: the Marvel type games Fortnite.
Speaker 1: Say more about those that sounds really fun.
Speaker 4: They're they're the big budget like shooting games, and then
Speaker 4: you put all those aside, and then you have to
Speaker 4: find like the more indie games, or the smaller games,
Speaker 4: or the more supreabol games, and that's sort of where
Speaker 4: I go. Plus, I love the like I loved Eldon Ring,
Speaker 4: I love I love, I do love BioShock, I love
Speaker 4: Dark Souls and Bloodborne.
Speaker 2: In those games, I feel like all of those from
Speaker 2: software games are very John Lovett.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you play them?
Speaker 2: I don't, And really so, Matt. These are games that
Speaker 2: are incredibly different colts. You die constantly, and I just
Speaker 2: I don't work under that feedback loop of like you.
Speaker 4: Failed, what are you playing?
Speaker 2: I am playing the Disney World equivalent of an MMO,
Speaker 2: which is Final Fantasy fourteen. The designers literally aren't trying
Speaker 2: to make it feel like a theme park, like you're
Speaker 2: supposed to like log on and it's supposed to be
Speaker 2: like you can go do this and do that and
Speaker 2: do that and it's great. I did famously by Matt
Speaker 2: Rodgers a switch with Breath of the Wilds. How far
Speaker 2: did you get into it? Matt?
Speaker 1: I got into the part where you're sort of on
Speaker 1: like a big tomb. There's like robot scorpion things attacking you,
Speaker 1: and I can figure out how to sort of get
Speaker 1: out of there. And so it's been frustrating for me,
Speaker 1: so much so that I haven't touched it in a
Speaker 1: long time. And then I really was I can't stress enough.
Speaker 1: I couldn't load all the games onto the switch. I
Speaker 1: really am not good at tech. I'm not good at it,
Speaker 1: and it frustrates me. It's probably the same way that
Speaker 1: you're frustrated by dying a thousand times in a game.
Speaker 1: I'm frustrated by turning on the game and finding out
Speaker 1: I can't play it, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, I think the missing piece, the
Speaker 2: thing that Matt needs is like just someone to show him,
Speaker 2: like where to put in an SD.
Speaker 1: Card, say that what I need is someone to come
Speaker 1: in here or someone want to put the SD cards.
Speaker 4: Asolutely, absolutely, you just slide it in right there. That's yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's all you really need and then you'll
Speaker 2: be off to the races. But I respect maybe they're
Speaker 2: ultimately not for you.
Speaker 1: Do you know what they'll bowen say this and say
Speaker 1: the truth, say the likely true story of this when
Speaker 1: we play like Mario Kart together, even on the newer systems,
Speaker 1: I hold my own. It takes me a second, but
Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good for someone that doesn't know how.
Speaker 2: True story that is a true story.
Speaker 1: I just feel like on a lot of the newer systems,
Speaker 1: and again this is me saying it as like sort
Speaker 1: of a pedestrian now at this point, but as someone
Speaker 1: who definitely identified as a little gamer when I was young,
Speaker 1: like in a major way, I feel everything's gotten more complicated. Yes,
Speaker 1: of course, it's all got more dynamic, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: one could even just say things have gotten better, like
Speaker 1: the worlds are bigger, they're more interesting, they're more visually appealing,
Speaker 1: they're more stimulating, et cetera. There's more characters and more
Speaker 1: to explore. But also I kind of miss back in
Speaker 1: the day when it was like Super SMAs Brothers on
Speaker 1: GameCube when it was like you started out with I
Speaker 1: think eight to ten people you can unlock characters, and
Speaker 1: then that was it. It's like it just feels like
Speaker 1: it's all so much now, and then muchness is what
Speaker 1: kind of like I don't love as much because I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I feel like an old old man
Speaker 1: now because whenever I just see pac Man, I'm like,
Speaker 1: thank God, I know exactly what I got to do.
Speaker 1: Mama has to eat and if she dies, she's gonna
Speaker 1: spin in a circle and be no more.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, straightforward, and it's the saddest thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's life and death.
Speaker 4: That's the thing. The game has such high highs because
Speaker 4: you can eat a ghost, right, but then it has
Speaker 4: these really low devastating moments where yes, a ghost that's
Speaker 4: not a ghost, that's.
Speaker 1: Not vulnerable eats you, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's also a larger, I think message about vulnerability.
Speaker 1: The clown comes back to bite in many ways.
Speaker 4: Well, it's that you can eat the ghost when they're scared,
Speaker 4: but when they're not scared, you cannot.
Speaker 1: So would you say that when you're eating the ghost,
Speaker 1: that's doing clown ery and that when the ghost eats you,
Speaker 1: the clowns come.
Speaker 2: Back to bite.
Speaker 4: I think that's right. Here's what I think. I think
Speaker 4: that there was a key moment, and here's the key moment.
Speaker 4: I think the key moment is when when Sony and
Speaker 4: Nintendo decided that there weren't going to be just one
Speaker 4: trigger for each finger, but two.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: And I think that that moment, if you weren't there
Speaker 4: to learn that divide between like when they went from
Speaker 4: I think it's either PlayStation to PlayStation two or two
Speaker 4: to three, when Nintendo added the Z one when there
Speaker 4: was like the second chargers. Yeah, yeah, I think I
Speaker 4: think that, like there are people that just they never
Speaker 4: crossed that bridge, and now they don't know how to
Speaker 4: get there. You know.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting because I feel like the first moment
Speaker 2: of like pure alienation by a video game company was
Speaker 2: Nintendo giving you N sixty four controllers where it had
Speaker 2: three handles.
Speaker 4: Yes, when they built that for people with three arms,
Speaker 4: and they never explained their mistake or took ownership or account.
Speaker 2: So many people.
Speaker 1: I thought it was so cunt. I loved that controller.
Speaker 1: I thought it was k u NT and it served that.
Speaker 2: I think we all thought so, but then once you
Speaker 2: like in theory, it's cunt. But then when you use it,
Speaker 2: and then John, the fact that there's a Z trigger
Speaker 2: on N sixty four controllers is what fucked us.
Speaker 1: That's how little little guys learned how to finger.
Speaker 2: That's how little guys learned how to finger. And then
Speaker 2: that branches off into two triggers on each side.
Speaker 4: Yes, and there was no way to ever. You never
Speaker 4: used it the way it seemed like it was meant
Speaker 4: to be used. You never grabbed it symmetrically. You always
Speaker 4: had want your left hand on the middle zone where
Speaker 4: I did not joystick was oh you didn't.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know what this is. And it may
Speaker 1: actually even trace back to the way I hold a
Speaker 1: pen is weird for some reason, like bowhen have you
Speaker 1: notice this because some people will make an issue of
Speaker 1: it with me when they watch me handwrite. I guess
Speaker 1: you don't watch you hold a pen? Where is the pan?
Speaker 2: My middle finger kind of my middle arch kind of
Speaker 2: gets a little too high.
Speaker 1: This is how I hold a pen.
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
Speaker 1: And you see how like I'm not using all my
Speaker 1: fingers and they don't converge at the same point. I'm
Speaker 1: like resting the pen on what is actually my middle finger,
Speaker 1: and I think this is actually the way a lefty
Speaker 1: holds a pen, and so, as a result of writing
Speaker 1: left to right and holding a pen this way frequently
Speaker 1: throughout my handwriting career, which really took place between the
Speaker 1: ages of four and eighteen, when I was really handwriting
Speaker 1: a lot, and let's call it grade school, I would
Speaker 1: have ink all over I guess my middle ring and
Speaker 1: pinky finger from like the ink not drying and just
Speaker 1: the way I naturally hold a pen humiliating and something
Speaker 1: I had to contend with in my life.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that sounds really hard. Thank you for telling us
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if that's why I would hold
Speaker 1: the left and right prong on the N sixty work control,
Speaker 1: because I just hold things different than like other girls.
Speaker 1: I'm not like other girls.
Speaker 4: I think it's hard to think of it as a cause.
Speaker 4: It could be connected. Maybe there's a separate cause for both,
Speaker 4: but I don't think it's a cause. I don't think
Speaker 4: the way you hold a pen is the reason you
Speaker 4: know the controller that way. I think they're unrelated. Probably
Speaker 4: just being honest, you think I'm just different. You think
Speaker 4: I'm different and valid. Yeah, I think you march to
Speaker 4: the beat of your own drummer A phrase I love.
Speaker 1: You like you really love it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, use it all.
Speaker 1: I wait, if you were known for as someone who
Speaker 1: said like and they marched to the beat of their
Speaker 1: own drummer, that would actually be major.
Speaker 4: I also say all the time they broke the mold
Speaker 4: with that one.
Speaker 1: Do you like that?
Speaker 4: I love that one and it seems unrelated. But don't
Speaker 4: have to tell me twice.
Speaker 1: Don't have to tell me good.
Speaker 2: That's really good.
Speaker 1: What do I say?
Speaker 4: A lot?
Speaker 1: There's definitely like prepositions. I use a lot on this podcast,
Speaker 1: and bo when I think says here's the thing, I think,
Speaker 1: I say, here's the thing. I feel like I hear
Speaker 1: that in your voice. I feel like I hear here's
Speaker 1: the things in my voice. Yes, if there are ticks
Speaker 1: that we have, I guess the readers, the Katie's, the finalists,
Speaker 1: and the publicists would be the ones to confirm what
Speaker 1: those are.
Speaker 2: Oh, here's what I try to consciously work in. And
Speaker 2: I don't find too many opportunities too.
Speaker 4: Are you ready?
Speaker 1: Yes, perfect example, perfect example. Oh my god, that's a
Speaker 1: good example.
Speaker 4: It's really good.
Speaker 2: The person just sounds smart when they use it. Perfect example,
Speaker 2: you're both smart.
Speaker 1: Now, I want to say to you, John, But so
Speaker 1: Boone is sort of on this thing, I think because
Speaker 1: he knows he's a smart person and there's another smart
Speaker 1: person in the chat, which doesn't happen to him frequently
Speaker 1: because he's the podcast with me. So now that you're
Speaker 1: in the chat, he's sort of doing this thing where
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm not smart, I'm not smart.
Speaker 2: I do this every week with it.
Speaker 1: I guess you don't liar likely story.
Speaker 2: But do you?
Speaker 1: Are you knowledgeable about everything? John? And if so, what
Speaker 1: are you dumb about ridiculous?
Speaker 4: First of all, First of all, I actually think you're
Speaker 4: both right. I think Bowen knows how smart Bowen is.
Speaker 4: Yes he does, and Bowen often does do a performance
Speaker 4: of ah shucks.
Speaker 1: Yes he does. Thank you for saying it.
Speaker 4: As a listener, as a reader, thank you.
Speaker 2: I'm going to do a thing where I bring race
Speaker 2: into it.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, sure it's time thirty minutes in, let's hear it.
Speaker 2: It's time.
Speaker 1: I'm pouring myself a drink.
Speaker 2: I'm bringing race into it. I think culture is the
Speaker 2: world over an Asian person wearing glasses. They go, he's
Speaker 2: probably smart, And.
Speaker 1: I think, and I think that's what I've been doing
Speaker 1: for years.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, I think that that just giving
Speaker 2: me such a boost.
Speaker 4: I see.
Speaker 2: And it's not one that's fully that I've I've not
Speaker 2: taken that vertical to the fullest type.
Speaker 4: Here's what I want to say. First of all, I'm
Speaker 4: realizing I'm doing that. That's why I think you're smart. No,
Speaker 4: it's no, No, Here's here's I think the word's smart.
Speaker 4: I think the words smart is bad. Yeah. It's a
Speaker 4: bit like saying like weird or crazy. It's a stand
Speaker 4: in for a bunch of qualities.
Speaker 2: Fine, I love that.
Speaker 4: Here's what I think. Here's what I think. What my
Speaker 4: experience of it is is that Bowen is very precise
Speaker 4: in his use of language in describing you're in describing
Speaker 4: your experience, in describing the world, But then you are
Speaker 4: less precise in how you apply it to yourself, so
Speaker 4: as not to precisely say the ways in which you
Speaker 4: think highly of yourself, because it would feel like bragging.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1: That is really to use a word smart, to use
Speaker 1: a big word, it's very stupid.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really interesting. First, I quickly want to say,
Speaker 2: while you were saying that, I did feel silly because
Speaker 2: what I call Matt all the time is smart. I'm
Speaker 2: always over here gassing my friend up going. I mean,
Speaker 2: Matt's one of the smartest people I know.
Speaker 1: And then I'm always sort of challenging him. I'm always
Speaker 1: saying say more, say more, say more about that.
Speaker 2: Matt is incredibly emotionally and textually intelligent. He is able
Speaker 2: to interpret something with.
Speaker 1: You think I'm textural, I said, textually, Oh do you
Speaker 1: think I'm textual?
Speaker 2: I think you can watch a movie, a TV show,
Speaker 2: read a book and you know the exact right takeaway.
Speaker 2: Not that there's always a right take away.
Speaker 1: No one is textually attracted.
Speaker 4: I think it's cool that when you thought he meant
Speaker 4: a textural, that was awesome instantly pivoted to textually.
Speaker 1: Think I'm textural, and I said, you think I'm textural,
Speaker 1: which I don't think.
Speaker 4: Is a word.
Speaker 2: I think it might be a textural.
Speaker 1: I think either way that it works. I think that's
Speaker 1: very very astute, John. But you have yet again sort
Speaker 1: of heard a question that I've asked and said something else,
Speaker 1: And that's okay. The second time, the third time. It's
Speaker 1: the famous expression fool me twice, shame on me, for
Speaker 1: me three times. You're off The pod.
Speaker 4: Kicked as quickly as I came in, just like that,
Speaker 4: and just like that, and just like that, Big was dead.
Speaker 1: Anyway, What subjects do you lack knowledge in? What's your
Speaker 1: dumb area?
Speaker 4: I'm dumb about a lot of things. Go ahead, here
Speaker 4: are some things I don't know about sports.
Speaker 1: Okay, music, you don't know about music?
Speaker 4: Well, why ask a question if you're gonna react like that?
Speaker 4: What's the what is that? What is that? What this was?
Speaker 1: I love this dance. Three of us are doing say
Speaker 1: more things. I won't interrupt.
Speaker 4: I don't know anything about like cooking really or you know,
Speaker 4: food generally. Wine is baffling to me. I find it
Speaker 4: interesting when people know about wine because it seems like
Speaker 4: a way to stop liking things that cost thirty dollars.
Speaker 4: You know, It's like, why, why try so hard to
Speaker 4: become like disgusted by something reasonable? So I don't really
Speaker 4: understand that. I don't know anything about plant.
Speaker 1: For trees, that's a huge one.
Speaker 4: I don't especially in La I'll be walking with a
Speaker 4: friend of mine and they'll say, oh my god, look
Speaker 4: at that, it's a boogain vilia or something of that,
Speaker 4: or look at that these are amic What is that?
Speaker 4: Something don't know. I don't know anything about it.
Speaker 1: So far.
Speaker 2: I think we share. We share a lot of these
Speaker 2: categories except for music. But I think you saying a
Speaker 2: dumb area of yours is music means that you don't like.
Speaker 2: Does that mean you don't know theory or you you
Speaker 2: don't know like what the kids are listening to?
Speaker 4: I don't. Yeah, I would say I don't know what
Speaker 4: the kids are listening to?
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 2: I think that's a function of like age, like because
Speaker 2: I feel but I never did, Okay, I really just
Speaker 2: never did.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I tried when I was a kid to
Speaker 4: keep up, and I bought a CD. The first two
Speaker 4: CDs I bought. One was Live Throwing Copper. What that?
Speaker 4: I just it's what It's what the kids were borrying.
Speaker 4: And sorry, I'm just telling. I'm explaining you know what
Speaker 4: we made it.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't mean to make a face either.
Speaker 4: Is this I don't know?
Speaker 1: This is last I begged to be on stop I
Speaker 1: Love You Keep Going? What's the second album?
Speaker 4: I Love You Keep going I do love you.
Speaker 1: Then I get a warm feeling every time.
Speaker 4: The second album, you know what, You can put a
Speaker 4: nail on a wall and then take it out, but
Speaker 4: you know what's left behind? I'll tell you.
Speaker 2: Holes a whole.
Speaker 1: Sorry.
Speaker 4: The other one. The other was I didn't hear it.
Speaker 4: The other one was Matchbooks twenty. Remember they're okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: what was that album called that?
Speaker 1: I'm almost be.
Speaker 4: Because I heard other kids talking about it and he
Speaker 4: was great. And then I went to the store and
Speaker 4: I got it and I brought it home and I
Speaker 4: just like played it just to try to understand what
Speaker 4: all the fuss was about. I'm still not sure.
Speaker 1: You don't get match Bucks twenty.
Speaker 4: I mean, I liked it, but I just didn't. It's like, okay,
Speaker 4: so this is good. This is this is what I'm
Speaker 4: supposed to like. Okay, I can like this. I can
Speaker 4: get that back that we all have had that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good Album's totally great. Three Am is
Speaker 1: a classic iconic song. And then of course push Wanna
Speaker 1: Push You Air Around? Well? Will that one really good,
Speaker 1: which everyone was obsessed with saying at the time was
Speaker 1: written from a female perspective, and they were like isn't
Speaker 1: it amazing that Rob Thomas and Matchbucks twenty did this
Speaker 1: song push, which is get this bravely written from a
Speaker 1: female perspective, and people were saying, this is Matchbucks twenty
Speaker 1: speaking for women who are pushing back against I guess
Speaker 1: like violence towards women, like I'm going to push you back,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take disrespect in my relationship. I'm
Speaker 1: going to push you around. I will, I will. And
Speaker 1: yet it was just Rob Thomas is sort of male
Speaker 1: voice singing that.
Speaker 4: I feel like you're slowly letting us know that you
Speaker 4: wrote your college thesis about this album, and you're like
Speaker 4: there's like actually a lot of detail and that you've
Speaker 4: bringing to the table, which is exciting.
Speaker 1: But that's really a nice view that you think I
Speaker 1: wrote a college thesis. Thank you.
Speaker 4: That is such a nineties we're in the like this,
Speaker 4: like like.
Speaker 1: Tell us what we're in king, I'm thinking about it.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about it, and it's it's like it takes
Speaker 4: it takes until now for something to go from being
Speaker 4: obviously like like the nineties are now the past. Yes,
Speaker 4: the past, it's unequivable. They are the past. It's another era.
Speaker 4: And so then you're a lot. Then I think you
Speaker 4: can talk about it as the past, and so people
Speaker 4: are more honest about it. And there's like an all
Speaker 4: male band writing a song from a woman's perspective, or
Speaker 4: like James Bond, there were all these articles about how,
Speaker 4: like James Bond is moving past the sexism of its
Speaker 4: old era. Why because he's punching women now, like you know,
Speaker 4: like like James Bond can fight a wo woman and
Speaker 4: that's how, you know, we're kind of moved into the future.
Speaker 4: And there's just this like there's this quality to nineties
Speaker 4: cold Sure that was a bunch of people who were
Speaker 4: very much mired in sexism and racism and misogyny and
Speaker 4: all of it, patting themselves on the back, believing that
Speaker 4: that was all behind them, like it was the end
Speaker 4: of history. And I love it. I just love the
Speaker 4: energy of it, and I like the reexamination of it.
Speaker 1: Yes, that was very much the time of One of
Speaker 1: my favorite things to say, talking about being able to
Speaker 1: say things, one of my favorite things to say that
Speaker 1: I never get to say is and he happens to
Speaker 1: be gay? And that was the very much and he
Speaker 1: happens to be gay era like and guess what, there's
Speaker 1: also a character that is can confirm black and also,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what we're actually doing. Ross actually
Speaker 1: has a black girl from this episode. Deal with it.
Speaker 1: Deal with it. She will get dumped into episodes and just.
Speaker 4: The whole like a whole political moment about the whole
Speaker 4: premise being that like gay people were cool with it
Speaker 4: because they couldn't help it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't want to be like this.
Speaker 4: It's not their fault.
Speaker 1: They just the choice like that. Obviously they wouldn't choose
Speaker 1: this life.
Speaker 4: And that's the most important reason to accept it.
Speaker 2: I think both of you are so so so right
Speaker 2: about this, and I think it's finally time we start
Speaker 2: moving towards locating this person. But I was just talking
Speaker 2: this weekend about but he's gay, he's gay, sorry, he's blind.
Speaker 2: This we need to find that newscaster. She has done
Speaker 2: such a service. We talk about her at work every week,
Speaker 2: me and celestin'sare We were always like, well, like it's Tuesday.
Speaker 2: We're like, well, we don't have any ideas should we
Speaker 2: write a sketch that's but he's gay, sorry, he's blind.
Speaker 2: Like We're like, where is this person we have? Like
Speaker 2: we need to find her. Yeah, you know that is
Speaker 2: the ultimate, the ultimate news blooper news veil.
Speaker 1: Maybe a little, I agree.
Speaker 4: I don't know the grave Stomp lady. She sounds really
Speaker 4: fucked up. It's like a gruesome sound.
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is true, but I think
Speaker 1: she got really hurt, which is like really hurt, which
Speaker 1: is another thing we've talked on this podcast before about
Speaker 1: like fail culture and like you know, when when a
Speaker 1: when a like a blueper that goes wrong in a
Speaker 1: physical way. Like I don't understand watching those like for
Speaker 1: pleasure because what you're hearing and seeing are the sounds
Speaker 1: of physical pain, often brutalization. And I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: really hurts me in the heart, because it hurts me
Speaker 1: physically to even watch the experience of watching it gives
Speaker 1: me pain. Are skateboarding fail videos. It is so gnarmally.
Speaker 4: Yeah, skateboarding to me, it is the lowest reward, highest
Speaker 4: risk pursuit, especially because of those games. And I played
Speaker 4: that Tony Hawk game.
Speaker 1: Yep, oh my god, we met Tony Hawk when he
Speaker 1: was on your I was on the same level or
Speaker 1: leave it as.
Speaker 4: Tony Hawk, and so I didn't have to Yes, it
Speaker 4: was surreal. It was great. And I asked him about
Speaker 4: this too, which is in the Tony Hawk game, you
Speaker 4: do these incredible moves. I mean you spin up in
Speaker 4: the air, and then you watch real skateboarding, and the
Speaker 4: things that get applause are just they're nowhere near the
Speaker 4: exciting maneuvers that take place in the game, and then
Speaker 4: people just eat shit. Yeah, it's no good, it's no good.
Speaker 1: And did he confirm he can't do those magic tricks?
Speaker 4: Yes, and he did he had recently broken his femur.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is the biggest bone in your body, not
Speaker 1: one you are He's okay, that's good. Okay. So while
Speaker 1: we're sort of in this area of like we're talking
Speaker 1: about nineties culture, we're talking about throwback culture, we're talking
Speaker 1: about even things like you mentioned, like the formative music
Speaker 1: you were listening to, it's time to ask the question
Speaker 1: which is the central question of the podcast, which is,
Speaker 1: and I'm honored that we get to ask you this
Speaker 1: and John love it, what was the culture that made
Speaker 1: you say culture was for me? So I thought about
Speaker 1: this and people always and talk about talk about filler
Speaker 1: things that people always say, is I thought about this,
Speaker 1: fucking hoster, you Award winning one. Keep going, Oh what listen,
Speaker 1: we both have.
Speaker 4: Is it a Webby?
Speaker 1: It's not an ivy were actually this year by the Webbies.
Speaker 1: Yeah it sucks. We're one of the glad Awards on
Speaker 1: uh Saturday. On Saturday, We're gonna lose probably, Okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: go on.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, So I think you have to put these
Speaker 4: two things together, which is why I'm going to say
Speaker 4: them both. One is math Net on Square one, which
Speaker 4: was a show on public television. It was a show
Speaker 4: about math that air when I was a kid, and
Speaker 4: at the end of every no it had a lot
Speaker 4: of different games and segments. I didn't like those. I
Speaker 4: didn't watch those. That culture wasn't for me. But at
Speaker 4: the end of every episode of Square one there was
Speaker 4: a segment called math Net, a math based parody of Dragnet,
Speaker 4: that had two detectives. I want to remember their names.
Speaker 4: The guy's name was Joe Frankly, and there were two
Speaker 4: different female detectives. It started with I believe Pat Monday,
Speaker 4: and then Pat Monday left the show and was replaced
Speaker 4: by like Kate Tuesday math and they would use maths
Speaker 4: to solve crimes, like there was a man in a
Speaker 4: gorilla suit who robbed a bank? How far could he
Speaker 4: have gotten between when the first witness saw and the
Speaker 4: second witness saw him? And it would always have the
Speaker 4: like bump bump bump, and it would be about two
Speaker 4: detectives using math to solve solve crimes. Loved it very
Speaker 4: important to me. The other is a specific scene, which
Speaker 4: is a scene when a sad miss Piggy returns to
Speaker 4: the department store in Muppets Take Manhattan and Joan Rivers
Speaker 4: cheers her up by giving her a makeover, a makeover.
Speaker 4: But they have so much fun yes doing the makeover
Speaker 4: that they get fired to get fired and storm out
Speaker 4: of the department store laughing. And I think if you
Speaker 4: put those two things together, it really explains the whole.
Speaker 1: The wholectory that is wonderful. Now I'm less familiar with
Speaker 1: math net, I ask you, did it make you want
Speaker 1: to be a mathematician? Did it make you good at math?
Speaker 1: Do you feel that maybe you didn't care about math
Speaker 1: so much before?
Speaker 2: Did it uncover a love of math or did it
Speaker 2: affirm an existing love of math?
Speaker 4: I think it affirmed and celebrated.
Speaker 1: A love of math. You love math, love math.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at this there was math Court math Man,
Speaker 2: The Mathematics of Love angled it so so Matt and
Speaker 2: Night in the nineties did not grow up with Square
Speaker 2: one on PBS because this was PBS. Mm hmm okay,
Speaker 2: And can I just say before we move on to
Speaker 2: Miss Piggy and John Rivers, there is something about edutainment
Speaker 2: that is like the most politically interesting, impactful kind of
Speaker 2: entertainment that it's probably also the hardest thing to write
Speaker 2: and generate and shoot and make interesting and entertaining like edutainment.
Speaker 2: Like there's almost something like inspiring to me where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I would be totally happy and I bet completely fulfilled
Speaker 2: just working in that lane. Like if I made edutainment
Speaker 2: good edutainment, if I made that my life's mission, I'd
Speaker 2: bet I would be the happiest version of myself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is just so hard to the level of
Speaker 4: sophistication you're supposed to get when it's not for you. Oh,
Speaker 4: and we understand, and we all understand, especially now that like, hey,
Speaker 4: there's something wrong if you are trying to write for
Speaker 4: an audience that you're not a part of, right, whether
Speaker 4: it's like yep, yep, I would never pitch a show
Speaker 4: about like black culture, or I would never pitch a
Speaker 4: show about I think I wouldn't even pitch a show
Speaker 4: about like lesbian culture, right, I just I would feel
Speaker 4: on comfortable trying to like embody that that doesn't seem
Speaker 4: right to me. But adults pitch show about children's culture
Speaker 4: all the time. We don't let children write them, which
Speaker 4: is something I think the strike is all about, which
Speaker 4: is letting.
Speaker 2: Children, letting kids, right, mini rooms, that's what the.
Speaker 4: Mini rooms are. Just tiny, tiny writers, children, very short men,
Speaker 4: very small people, and they should be paid or be bigger.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, Matt and I have worked in this
Speaker 2: sector where through Story Pirates we were literally adapting and listen,
Speaker 2: it was like great stuff. But this is really interesting
Speaker 2: because I also think it's not super It doesn't always
Speaker 2: yield the best results when people try to write for
Speaker 2: an audience that they aspire towards. Either you can sort
Speaker 2: of like smell that pretty easily and go I don't
Speaker 2: really care for this. Like I can tell that the
Speaker 2: people making this show are trying to like go up
Speaker 2: some sort of like tear or cast, and like I
Speaker 2: don't think that's working well authentic.
Speaker 4: It's like something trying to be more sophisticated than is
Speaker 4: or something trying to be more political than the person
Speaker 4: writing it naturally is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to marry your two answers. Then, because
Speaker 1: you have this, you know, you're nodding towards this math
Speaker 1: net and we're talking about edutainment, and then you're we're
Speaker 1: going to transition into the Miss Piggy Joan Rivers make
Speaker 1: up moment of it all. Were you a Sesame Street child?
Speaker 4: Yes, I was a Sesame Street child. Did you have
Speaker 4: mister Wizard?
Speaker 1: No, so I think we had Wizard. What unfortunately happened
Speaker 1: around my age was Barney really took over? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Barney is like, and this is I'm not disrespecting, But
Speaker 1: Barney was more just like a narrative about the kids
Speaker 1: and Barney, and it was I guess maybe it was
Speaker 1: teaching like moral lessons. But Sesame Street was fun because
Speaker 1: it felt like a really fun educational program that was
Speaker 1: so disguised in the interesting characters and the fun dynamics
Speaker 1: that you didn't even realize you were learning, Whereas, like
Speaker 1: you know, Barney was just I think trying to be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: Selena Gomez Will helped to temi levado tie her shoe.
Speaker 1: They're friends. This is what friendship is.
Speaker 2: Barney taught you how to like hang out.
Speaker 1: I guess Barney taught you how to chill. It's actually
Speaker 1: really culture number seven.
Speaker 2: Barney taught you how to chill.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that I feel like that is the difference. I
Speaker 4: think that's like the five years because that was after Yeah,
Speaker 4: like I think I got the bottom of the barrel
Speaker 4: of like the eighties, like public television, those original studios
Speaker 4: where it's like, this is just an old social studies
Speaker 4: teacher in a house somewhere and we're just gonna shoot
Speaker 4: him showing people how ice melt. I love that, and
Speaker 4: like that's what I got. And then Barney's like, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna fuck this whole economy. Yeah, I'm gonna rock. I'm you.
Speaker 4: People don't understand how annoying this can be and work
Speaker 4: Barney was. You don't understand the sounds that kids are
Speaker 4: actually looking for.
Speaker 1: And Barney was so obsessed with being a brand. Barney
Speaker 1: was brand forward. The Barney brand was so inescapable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Barney also was really big on like teaching you
Speaker 2: how to clean up after grip.
Speaker 1: Get bent. Barney get bent.
Speaker 2: But it's also like Bartie can't have its kick and
Speaker 2: needed too because Barney's like, you should clean up after yourself.
Speaker 2: But then also like in the back of my mind,
Speaker 2: I feel like Barney was trying to teach everybody about
Speaker 2: like making it in this world so that you don't
Speaker 2: have to clean up after yourself and you can pay
Speaker 2: somebody to do it. I don't know where that's coming from,
Speaker 2: but I feel that to be true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that
Speaker 4: was That was the Barney energy look. And I've always
Speaker 4: said this, Barney is hustle culture, and yes, yes, and
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't talk about it. Absolutely was
Speaker 4: Thomas the tank Engine. Thomas the Tank Engine was hustle
Speaker 4: culture for sure.
Speaker 1: Surely.
Speaker 4: So you know it was very important to be a
Speaker 4: train and to do your job as a train. If
Speaker 4: you didn't do your job as a train, there were consequences.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, how interesting consequence culture.
Speaker 4: That's And there's something so cynical. They're on tracks, yea,
Speaker 4: what point does they are? Really? They are just lit it.
Speaker 4: They can go forward or they can go back.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you have any comment on when Sesame Street had
Speaker 1: to cut out Katy Perry because of her breasts. Do
Speaker 1: you have comment on that.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm not aware of that. I don't.
Speaker 1: Well, the most famous episode of Sesame Street and no
Speaker 1: one ever saw was when Katy Perry guested on Sesame
Speaker 1: Street and even though she's wearing a full shirt, everyone said,
Speaker 1: we can't have this. Her boobs are too big. She
Speaker 1: can't be on Sesame Street. And they never shared the episode,
Speaker 1: but you can watch it on YouTube. I guess I
Speaker 1: think she sang like a silly version of Hot and Cold.
Speaker 2: It seems like there's a digital fix. Yeah, back then,
Speaker 2: maybe not. I think in twenty ten we didn't have
Speaker 2: that technology.
Speaker 4: Well they could. They could have just put in like
Speaker 4: a bush, you know, like a like just like a
Speaker 4: little plant or something.
Speaker 1: You know, she could have been singing behind a bush.
Speaker 2: But by the way, we know one should feel bad
Speaker 2: for Katie Peer in the end that the ending to
Speaker 2: her story is that she went to the coronation and
Speaker 2: no one else did, like the people who called in
Speaker 2: to complain did not.
Speaker 4: And even before that, she's done pretty well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well a huge star.
Speaker 4: Yeah, everybody knows her. Her stuff's all over the place.
Speaker 1: Can I say, before we move into the mispiggy of
Speaker 1: it all I did. I've written down one word on
Speaker 1: a piece of paper, and it's the word weird. Because
Speaker 1: when you said earlier that you feel like smart is
Speaker 1: a bad word, dumb is a bad word, weird is
Speaker 1: a bad word. I'm going to push back on weird.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually really fun to say about someone
Speaker 1: she's weird, Like, no, how is that person? Like, I've
Speaker 1: never met them weird?
Speaker 4: And I love I love having fun with words. And
Speaker 4: I think we all did, ye I will. I think
Speaker 4: weird and crazy and.
Speaker 1: Crazy is problematic.
Speaker 2: Crazy is not great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, so crazy has issues beyond what Actually I
Speaker 4: understood the reason to stop saying crazy, and I thought
Speaker 4: it was a good reason. It to you, well, what
Speaker 4: persuaded me that it wasn't just good for that reason alone? Right, Like, yes,
Speaker 4: I understand why I could be considered ablest and I
Speaker 4: would say, you know what, I would say intellectually, I
Speaker 4: was my heart wasn't in it, And I.
Speaker 2: Think, what, that's huge. That's what got me.
Speaker 4: What got me all the way there was not just
Speaker 4: the way in which it was sort of using this
Speaker 4: sort of you know word about mental health in a
Speaker 4: pejorative way. It's that so often it is just laziness
Speaker 4: to stand actually, and it's two people assuming they both
Speaker 4: know what they mean by crazy, but they don't. It's
Speaker 4: just a stand in for a bunch of different things,
Speaker 4: and actually forcing yourself to find more specific ways to
Speaker 4: talk about why you're bothered leads to saying something better.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. And so you feel the same way about weird,
Speaker 2: where it's a stand in for something else. But I
Speaker 2: think I think you're sort of your hang ups about
Speaker 2: these words. I think it's kind of tied to them
Speaker 2: mostly being monosyllabic, with the exception of crazy, weird, smart, dumb,
Speaker 2: Let's say dumb that's great. I just use the word great,
Speaker 2: and I don't feel awesome about it. I don't feel
Speaker 2: great about it. So I feel like, but is that it?
Speaker 2: Like I think, is there are we creating some sort
Speaker 2: of bias towards multi syllabic words because I don't always.
Speaker 4: Don't want to be a part of that. I don't
Speaker 4: want to do that.
Speaker 2: What I've had to walk back for the last several
Speaker 2: years because when I listened back to myself from years ago,
Speaker 2: I go, why am I throwing all these disgusting sat
Speaker 2: words around. That's so annoying.
Speaker 3: It's June and I and I feel like sometimes dumb, weird, smart,
Speaker 3: sometimes those are okay.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, but I don't what. Yeah I agree
Speaker 4: with that. I'm not the word Okay, you can you police.
Speaker 4: I'm not the word police.
Speaker 1: But this is the words episode and actually is the
Speaker 1: title of that's what they mean by minimum staffing like
Speaker 1: tiny people with John love.
Speaker 2: It words words words. Yeah, that's great. I was gonna
Speaker 2: say with the words, I like words, words, words.
Speaker 1: Let's see if we have John isn't happy.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing we have it.
Speaker 2: We are to do this. We're on the guild. We
Speaker 2: can't beat something while we're on the straight.
Speaker 1: Do you have a statement of support for the guild?
Speaker 1: Because as someone that a lot of people look up to.
Speaker 2: And make it make different ones for West and East.
Speaker 4: Look, I think, uh, I think that, Oh we're in trouble.
Speaker 4: I'm very supportive of the writers. I hope they get
Speaker 4: what they want. And you know, I'm a big supporter
Speaker 4: of not letting computers write scripts. I don't think they'll
Speaker 4: do a very good job. I think the tweets by
Speaker 4: the writers are good and none of them are over
Speaker 4: the top. And I think anyone who's saying that and
Speaker 4: support the writers and all the people secretly free all
Speaker 4: the people who correctly and support the writers in this strike,
Speaker 4: but then also have little side texts about the tweets
Speaker 4: that they think are the most ridiculous. I consider that
Speaker 4: being a scab and that needs to stop.
Speaker 1: Wow, that actually that I think people are going to
Speaker 1: change their behavior now, I really do.
Speaker 4: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: So Miss Piggy and Joan Rivers when they played with
Speaker 1: makeup together, what was that the guy?
Speaker 4: Was it?
Speaker 1: The joy? Was it the joy and the fun they
Speaker 1: were having and what was obviously sort of a you know,
Speaker 1: fun moment on set.
Speaker 4: It's that. It starts with Miss Piggy. She's at a low.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I believe she's just been rejected by Kermit in some way.
Speaker 1: Which was insane. I mean the amount of times that
Speaker 1: he shit, I think because he's insecure and you know
Speaker 1: it's small.
Speaker 4: Kermit is not a good guy.
Speaker 1: No, No, he's a narcissist.
Speaker 2: He plays at the banjo.
Speaker 1: Cool, what of her?
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous. But she comes in, she's so beside herself
Speaker 4: and they slowly Joan Rivers starts giving her this makeover,
Speaker 4: and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger until they're
Speaker 4: the other thing that I I didn't know what it was,
Speaker 4: but it was. It features more prominently in children's cartoon
Speaker 4: like Quicksand but it's the makeup poof where you poof
Speaker 4: someone's face with I guess foundation or just powder, and
Speaker 4: it was like just this big poof and you just
Speaker 4: get poof, poof, poofed YEA. Cartoons would always do that
Speaker 4: to each other for makeup, like if if Bugs Bunny
Speaker 4: was putting makeup on Elmer Fudd, it would be a
Speaker 4: big poof and it had that yeah, and then that
Speaker 4: the snooty manager comes over and he's disgusted by this display,
Speaker 4: but they're having such a good time they don't care,
Speaker 4: and he says, you're both fired, and then they, you know,
Speaker 4: Joan Rivers basically mimics the Muppet style laugh, which is
Speaker 4: like the head been that which is the best, And
Speaker 4: they just laughed their ways out of the store. Ten
Speaker 4: out of ten.
Speaker 1: Ten is amazing.
Speaker 4: Not until the film Babylon, was there.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, there an anti retail scene?
Speaker 4: Was there a scene that starts from zero and ends
Speaker 4: at one hundred? That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Wait, what scene in Babylon?
Speaker 4: Are you talking about every scene in the first two hours?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty pretty weird.
Speaker 2: What way did this contribute and what way did this
Speaker 2: contribute to the trajectory?
Speaker 4: I just I just have Miss Piggy energy. I just
Speaker 4: do ye.
Speaker 1: Do you know you're violent? Piggy's a violent woman. She
Speaker 1: often will say violent.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do that, I do that.
Speaker 1: On this podcast. There is never an instance where Miss
Speaker 1: Piggy says that I'm not laughing it's till the cows draw.
Speaker 4: She also, Miss Piggy, I believe, also chases down a
Speaker 4: per snatcher in Muppets Take Manhattan.
Speaker 1: I believe she does.
Speaker 4: I believe she does a hia I hope what hope amazing.
Speaker 2: She's very declared. She's always kicking people out too, like
Speaker 2: I think it Muppet's Christmas Carol. She tells Michael Caine,
Speaker 2: you know, when Scrooge wakes up the next morning on
Speaker 2: Christmas Morning and goes to Cratchet's house, she goes like
Speaker 2: she is very, like she's very She's there to be
Speaker 2: like Scrooge is not allowed here. The only character in
Speaker 2: that movie, by the way, in that story and that
Speaker 2: reimagined story. Who's like, fuck you Scrooge, get out of
Speaker 2: my house.
Speaker 4: Yes, miss pigging Holes.
Speaker 1: Does Lauren know you have Miss Piggy?
Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't myself to do a Miss Piggy.
Speaker 1: But I'm waiting for the next moment for you.
Speaker 2: Maybe. But I think look me saying hi yah an Asian.
Speaker 1: I think looking at Weird, you're weird but weird. I'm
Speaker 1: smart and he's smart and weird.
Speaker 4: Hey, I think you're both smart. I think you're both smart,
Speaker 4: weird and crazy.
Speaker 1: Crazy is the title of the app. I'm sorry, abo's
Speaker 1: what it is. And smart, weird, and crazy because they're
Speaker 1: more descriptive than words words words, because actually all words smart, weird,
Speaker 1: and crazy with John love it And that's the title
Speaker 1: of the episode, and that's exciting. Do you have any
Speaker 1: thoughts on current culture that you are dying to get
Speaker 1: out there, Like what's the shows that you're consuming. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming you're a succession person.
Speaker 4: I am a succession person. And I'll just say it,
Speaker 4: I love it. Yeah, I think it's good. I think
Speaker 4: it's smart, I think it's well written.
Speaker 2: I'll just say it is a great sort of phrase too. Anyway,
Speaker 2: keep going.
Speaker 4: I'll just say yeah, I'll just say it. I'll just
Speaker 4: say it.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: You think Sarah Snook is good?
Speaker 4: Yeah I do. I'll say it. I think Sarah Snook
Speaker 4: is good. I like that none of the American accents
Speaker 4: are right, and that's okay because they're from another layer
Speaker 4: of society where maybe they are wrong up there, maybe
Speaker 4: they don't sound like us up there where they are.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you listen to the Succession podcast
Speaker 1: with Karros Wwisher that she hosts, but she was talking
Speaker 1: to Brian Cox and he said that he was irate
Speaker 1: during the first season when, like episodes and episodes in
Speaker 1: he realized that the character was actually from Scotland, and
Speaker 1: he thought he had thought that they decided against that,
Speaker 1: Like he was like, Oh, the character's not from Scotland.
Speaker 1: That's not part of the history I'm playing. That's not
Speaker 1: the character I'm playing. And then he saw literally a
Speaker 1: document that was printed out as a prop that I
Speaker 1: think stated Logan Roy's birthplace as Scotland, and he in
Speaker 1: the podcast episode I don't know, I can't necessarily find
Speaker 1: where Brian Cox's sense of humor starts and ends because
Speaker 1: it all is kind of delivered in this Brian Coxean
Speaker 1: way where it's the kind of person that's in your life,
Speaker 1: which is a person that I fear, which is where
Speaker 1: you think you're kidding because you are, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden they reveal that they're no longer kidding,
Speaker 1: and like it's just people that have like there's an
Speaker 1: absence of a wink or the absence of putting effort
Speaker 1: into letting you know we are changing course are actually no.
Speaker 1: But seriously, I really mean this. He I don't know.
Speaker 1: I can't find where it starts and ends with him.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he's kidding about. So he could
Speaker 1: legitimately be on this podcast episode which was the third episode,
Speaker 1: which of course followed the episode where his character dies,
Speaker 1: but he is seeming upset, but also it's like he
Speaker 1: could be kidding, but also I would not want to
Speaker 1: be the person around Yeah, probably not.
Speaker 4: He also strikes me as someone where he has a
Speaker 4: sense of humor. But you know that even if you
Speaker 4: were just at your absolute best and you were firing
Speaker 4: in all cylinders that only half wood Land right, that
Speaker 4: there would just you'd be doing a lot of I'm
Speaker 4: just kiddings you'd be you'd be saying, I'm just kidding
Speaker 4: a lot, and that obviously stinks. It thinks stinks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's here's My thought is that he seems to
Speaker 2: be someone who like rails against earnestness, like the way
Speaker 2: he like hates Jeremy Strong's style, but then he will
Speaker 2: also be earnest himself all the time. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: I feel like there's no irony in any expression that
Speaker 2: he sort of puts out.
Speaker 1: We also, like, I think that's something that we forget
Speaker 1: about actors in general when we call themselves important and
Speaker 1: self serious, is that they have to have a sense
Speaker 1: of play, because that is intrinsic and inherent to even
Speaker 1: wanting to act in the first place. Like actors without
Speaker 1: a sense of play. I don't understand that, nor have
Speaker 1: I really met Wile Bowen is smiling a smile.
Speaker 2: Nothing, it makes me think of Patty over the Patty Years,
Speaker 2: and you like kind of overuses that phrase and like
Speaker 2: a deliberate sense of play, a sense of play. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's like she's like posted Instagram grip posts where she's like,
Speaker 2: what was great about this set was that the really
Speaker 2: sense of.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, no, it is funny. But I'm saying is
Speaker 1: like the set of Succession feels like it would be
Speaker 1: a weird one because you it feels like the methods
Speaker 1: there are all very different, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's like Brian Cox fully dragging Jeremy Strong like in
Speaker 1: the press, and Kieran Culkin kind of doing the same thing,
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, it's annoying when he wants to not
Speaker 1: rehearse first.
Speaker 4: I have two points I want to make. Point number one.
Speaker 4: I think it's cool, Matt, but you're that you approach
Speaker 4: this moment by saying I'm just not sure I respect
Speaker 4: Brian Cox's approach to acting at all.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that I think people people sometimes
Speaker 1: interpret his his sense of humor and his like state
Speaker 1: of being as being like rigid or being like sort
Speaker 1: of like born. Brian Cox has to be he has
Speaker 1: to have a sense of humor. He's on succession, He's
Speaker 1: he's you look at his career, He's done a ton.
Speaker 1: He's also very funny, even if maybe in the moment
Speaker 1: he's not meaning to be funny or comedic purely in nature.
Speaker 1: But like this idea that even like Jeremy Strong takes
Speaker 1: himself so seriously all the time, like can't be true,
Speaker 1: because like you have to have that curiosity and that
Speaker 1: sense of imagination and yes, play drag me Patty Harrison
Speaker 1: to even want to do this?
Speaker 2: No no, no, no, no, no, yeah, I really quickly, I
Speaker 2: think I'm ready to share the story on the poet
Speaker 2: share it as a way of like supporting the idea
Speaker 2: that Jeremy Strong actually is, like has a sense of
Speaker 2: play and irony. Okay, and Matt's read the story before,
Speaker 2: I think, but I've been telling it, and I've been
Speaker 2: I've been really literally dining out on this story for
Speaker 2: a while now, and and this is this is its
Speaker 2: public debut.
Speaker 4: So I'm very excited.
Speaker 2: So the most recent season of nor from Queen's shot
Speaker 2: at the same studio as the most recent as this
Speaker 2: season of Succession. The North from Queen's production office was
Speaker 2: pretty close to the Succession stages in their production office,
Speaker 2: and as we famously know, Jeremy Strong is the method actor.
Speaker 2: And at one point, at one point, Jeremy walks into
Speaker 2: the North from Queen's production office and says, excuse me,
Speaker 2: do you know where the bathroom is? And then something
Speaker 2: someone in the office is like, yeah, it's just down
Speaker 2: the hall to the left. He goes, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: He leaves, Matt, you've heard the story before, I think
Speaker 2: I have. You haven't.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, you've been dining out with other people?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, likely story.
Speaker 2: Likely story. So Jeremy leaves. Ten minutes pass and then
Speaker 2: a PA from succession comes into the office and goes, hi,
Speaker 2: was Jeremy just in here? And they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was. He went to the bathroom. And then they
Speaker 2: go this PA goes, did he ask where it was? Us?
Speaker 2: Did he come here to ask you where the bathroom was?
Speaker 2: And they were like yeah, why. Then the PA says
Speaker 2: she has a scene today where he has to ask
Speaker 2: someone where the broom?
Speaker 1: You're kidding?
Speaker 2: And I think that is method to such a such
Speaker 2: a ridiculous degree that like he must be like in
Speaker 2: on the joke.
Speaker 1: Giggling inside internally a little bit.
Speaker 4: I love that, I am told I love I just
Speaker 4: love that there's somebody who's just like, I need to
Speaker 4: later ask someone to go to the bathroom. I don't.
Speaker 4: I need to fully internalize and understand the experience. So
Speaker 4: I'm gonna drink access that I can't access it so
Speaker 4: I'm gonna drink a gallon of gatorade and then go
Speaker 4: to an unfamiliar part of this lot, and I'm gonna
Speaker 4: use that experience that I can draw on it later.
Speaker 4: I fucking love that. The other thing too, Like so
Speaker 4: like all of these actors they that are like doing
Speaker 4: a serious like whatever, Kendall as a leading man whatever.
Speaker 4: But like there'll be a billboard on sunset for some
Speaker 4: movie where a handsome male movie star will play a soldier.
Speaker 4: And this is a person who has, you know, their
Speaker 4: life extends from like creation organic to to you know,
Speaker 4: it's like they live a very small and fancy life
Speaker 4: and then they are going to take on their persona
Speaker 4: of a member of the military and do things like
Speaker 4: follow me gents and life. But but and like just
Speaker 4: do guns stuff and man's military man bravado stuff, behaviors,
Speaker 4: and I do not. I think if you're doing something
Speaker 4: like that, there has to be an ability to shut
Speaker 4: off the sense of like you can't have a sense
Speaker 4: of play actually and that day you have to be
Speaker 4: completely serious. You have to believe, you have to be
Speaker 4: so earnest because if even a tiny crack of how
Speaker 4: ridiculous this is got in don't you think it? Just
Speaker 4: it with the whole thing would melt like cotton candy,
Speaker 4: like you just to do that requires such a level
Speaker 4: of belief and commitment, like it seems sure.
Speaker 2: Having not been in that situation, I feel like that
Speaker 2: you must be right.
Speaker 4: So when I was a speech writer, Jeremy Strong played
Speaker 4: a speech writer in Lincoln, Ah. Basically years and years ago.
Speaker 4: He reached out through someone and I got lunch with
Speaker 4: him and he just asked me a lot of questions
Speaker 4: about speechwriting and like very specific, like what did you feel,
Speaker 4: what did you think? What is this? Like, what's your
Speaker 4: reaction to this? And I completely forgot about it. I
Speaker 4: just like forgot that it ever happened. And then I
Speaker 4: saw Lincoln and he has a part in Lincoln. I
Speaker 4: didn't even remember. I wouldn't even have remembered his name.
Speaker 4: It just would have been like, oh, that actor who
Speaker 4: reached out about being in Lincoln. And then years later,
Speaker 4: when that New Yorker story came out, was said that, like,
Speaker 4: you know, Jeremy Strong has this method approach to acting,
Speaker 4: and I was like, oh my god, I was a
Speaker 4: part of his process. Wow, Lincoln, he was perfectly nice.
Speaker 1: Did you meet up for lunch.
Speaker 4: Yes, I got about lunch. And when the argument.
Speaker 1: Got creation organic. This was in d C.
Speaker 2: This was back when this was a d C Founding
Speaker 2: Farmers spot.
Speaker 4: Maybe it might have been a founder of Farmers, just
Speaker 4: for one example that it could have been.
Speaker 2: That's the only restaurant.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you something about founding Farmers. Oh, here's what
Speaker 4: i'll say. Here's what I'll say. They took a lot
Speaker 4: of pride in saying that their building was Lead Green certified.
Speaker 4: Always fucking stuffy in there. It's like, it's like to
Speaker 4: be throwing air. What are we doing here? This is
Speaker 4: what it means. This is the future.
Speaker 2: It was not class building. It was like, let's.
Speaker 4: Get the air moving and yeah, don't tell me the
Speaker 4: future and that it's all great, and then and then
Speaker 4: everyone's going to think that this is what it is.
Speaker 4: The future is stuffy, and the future is not stuffy.
Speaker 2: It can't be stuffy.
Speaker 4: Maybe a little stuffy. My future might feel. The future
Speaker 4: might feel a little bit okay, a lot of good
Speaker 4: stuff coming down the pike. Totally excited about a lot
Speaker 4: of it. But the future might just be.
Speaker 1: It's actually we're little Coaching Number sixty might be a
Speaker 1: little stoupy like Brian Cox.
Speaker 2: Like Brian Cox, I think we're getting really sort of
Speaker 2: spirited right now. I think all three of us are
Speaker 2: ready to like really get polemic about launch and launch.
Speaker 2: What do you say?
Speaker 1: It feels right, It feels right. This is a moment
Speaker 1: in time because it's the I don't Think so Honey
Speaker 1: segment of the John Lovett episode of Lost Culturistas. And
Speaker 1: this is sure to be fire. So I don't think
Speaker 1: so Honey. Is a sixty second segment that we do
Speaker 1: on this podcast where we take a minute at e
Speaker 1: sixty second is to real against something in culture that
Speaker 1: needs to be dragged. I am gonna keep it on Succession.
Speaker 1: I actually have a thing about Succession that is an
Speaker 1: unpopular opinion, and I'm just gonna go for it.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is Matt Rogers's I don't think so honey
Speaker 2: about Succession. His time starts now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey, Cousin Greg. I think this
Speaker 1: is television's best current show. I don't think so honey,
Speaker 1: Cousin Greg. I think it's one bit and I think
Speaker 1: that it is funny. But I'm waiting for the cousin
Speaker 1: Greg of it. All to pay off. And I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey that it will, because isn't that antithetical
Speaker 1: to the whole cousin Greg thing? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: I understand like his relationship to them is like mandatory
Speaker 1: and arbitrary, and like he is the comedic foil. But
Speaker 1: like I want to see this payoff in a big way,
Speaker 1: and if it doesn't, I don't think so, honey. I
Speaker 1: almost want to see cousin Greg win the whole thing,
Speaker 1: or for cousin Greg to reveal that quote unquote cousin
Speaker 1: Greg is like a long con because and it's nothing
Speaker 1: to do with Nicholas Braun. I just don't think, so, honey,
Speaker 1: the cousin Greg of it all. I'm just waiting for
Speaker 1: it to become more dynamic than it is right now.
Speaker 1: It's a bit in a brilliant show where there's a
Speaker 1: lot of complexitn it feels like there's not a lot
Speaker 1: there that's awesome.
Speaker 2: I don't think so, honey, And that's one minute. Wow,
Speaker 2: this is interesting. I agree, And anytime I see him
Speaker 2: with Tom, I'm like, get Greg with someone else. Let's
Speaker 2: see another like permutation of characters.
Speaker 1: You want to know what it is. It's like it's
Speaker 1: in a show where the characters are so real and
Speaker 1: I really feel like I understand all the shades. I
Speaker 1: just don't believe he's that dumb Tonally, it's the only
Speaker 1: thing about the show where I'm like not landing anywhere
Speaker 1: me personally, Like, if I'm to compare it to mad Men,
Speaker 1: that's what like kind of makes mad Men a little
Speaker 1: superior for me, if I'm to compare the two, is
Speaker 1: that I feel like that there was not a false
Speaker 1: step in that way.
Speaker 4: I need to speak. I think I need to speak
Speaker 4: on this. That's fine the far as your succession to
Speaker 4: me is actually making up for so I'm in By
Speaker 4: the end, it was just like, listen, I get it.
Speaker 4: They're on a journey. Put Peggy and Don in a
Speaker 4: fucking room together. Why are they at different agencies? There's
Speaker 4: a TV show get them together and with succession at
Speaker 4: least I agree that we need like there's like you
Speaker 4: want to see great like we've seen a lot of
Speaker 4: Jerry and George, show me George and Elaane, you know, yes,
Speaker 4: show like let's get some pairings going on. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: totally agree exactly. I'm glad that they're keeping them together
Speaker 4: because in Mad Men it was so frustrating by the
Speaker 4: end because it's like a Don Peggy episode, a two
Speaker 4: hander suitcase, the suitcase.
Speaker 1: Perfect perfect example, perfect example.
Speaker 4: Perfect example. And I'm always saying that, and I'm always
Speaker 4: saying that is something I'm always saying, And that's I.
Speaker 2: Was going to say. The reason it's really pronounced this
Speaker 2: season that like Greg doesn't tonally really working for me
Speaker 2: because I think Tom is less of a comedic foil
Speaker 2: to the siblings like Tom's on his funny as he
Speaker 2: was in prior seasons for like perfectly valid reasons, and
Speaker 2: so I think a lot of the comedy is landing
Speaker 2: on Greg. But I think this is just coming out
Speaker 2: of like logan dying. Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean one of the funniest things that's
Speaker 1: happened all season is Tom dragging Greg for the date
Speaker 1: that he brought, i mean, the ludicrously capacious bag. So
Speaker 1: it's like that maybe that's why we're seeing so much
Speaker 1: of it or it's not evolving necessarily, is because that
Speaker 1: is the excuse for Tom to be the funny character still.
Speaker 1: And then you know, it almost feels like now that
Speaker 1: we're at the part of the show where we have
Speaker 1: the promise of the premise, which is the succession is
Speaker 1: upon us. Maybe that sort of just focuses the narrative
Speaker 1: so on the three of them that there's not as
Speaker 1: much opportunity for cousin Greg to be colliding with them
Speaker 1: that much, or for them to be focusing on his
Speaker 1: dynamics with anyone but Tom, because that's just what's realistic.
Speaker 1: Also would say in terms of the mad men of
Speaker 1: it all, it's like, I actually disagree. I think Peggy
Speaker 1: quitting is actually all the more powerful knowing they that
Speaker 1: they really no longer had a relationship after that. That's
Speaker 1: what keeps me going back to that episode where you know,
Speaker 1: she goes, takes a step towards him in her in
Speaker 1: his office and holds her hand out and then he
Speaker 1: kisses her hand and she says, don't be a stranger,
Speaker 1: and she leaves like that really was kind of the
Speaker 1: end for them, And I think that's strengthened when you
Speaker 1: look at the series as a whole, because she really left.
Speaker 1: So I get what you're saying in terms of what
Speaker 1: we want for the characters in terms of our viewing experience,
Speaker 1: But to me, it was like they were following through
Speaker 1: with what they had decided to do in a realistic way,
Speaker 1: whereas maybe that's what's holding cousin Greg back in this
Speaker 1: season literally for the same reason, which is just not
Speaker 1: working as well for me.
Speaker 4: I just want to say that it wasn't until what
Speaker 4: you just said that I put the pieces together and
Speaker 4: realized that they're doing a succession.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, a show about succession.
Speaker 4: The promise of the premise, the promise of the premise,
Speaker 4: which Bowen smiled the same way when you say promise
Speaker 4: of the present pressing really gets a reaction, Well gets a.
Speaker 2: Reaction because Matt recently on a on a project that
Speaker 2: we can no longer work on as long as the
Speaker 2: strike is happening, he used it to great effect and
Speaker 2: in a way that was actually quite helpful.
Speaker 1: Promise Yeah, well it's actually it's actually a sud a
Speaker 1: green thing. But I thought that it's a perfect way
Speaker 1: to say. I mean, the promise of the premise, the
Speaker 1: premise of succession is he's going to die then the
Speaker 1: hill pass the company on, which is again what so
Speaker 1: this is a very like I think mom thing to say,
Speaker 1: like my mom when he died on Succession in that
Speaker 1: third episode, there was like a contingency of people, and
Speaker 1: my mom was one of them who was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we never saw the body. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's dead. I don't think he's dead. You know, we
Speaker 1: didn't see it. I'm like, if this isn't like the mom,
Speaker 1: it's not lost, you know, it's not like it's This
Speaker 1: isn't like the This isn't like mid OFT's network televi
Speaker 1: vision where it's like they come back from the life.
Speaker 4: It's not revenge like the forty four hundred.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly not the forty four hundred and it
Speaker 1: never will be. But that was what was so funny
Speaker 1: to me, is I was just like, no, like, if
Speaker 1: you really think about this show, this needed to happen
Speaker 1: early in this last season because now we really need
Speaker 1: to see it come to ahead the promise of the
Speaker 1: premise there will be a succession.
Speaker 4: Yeah, very good, very good.
Speaker 2: This just makes me want to watch the Suitcase.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe we will Bow, maybe we will all right,
Speaker 1: this is Bow and yangs. I don't think so, honey,
Speaker 1: Are you ready?
Speaker 2: Bo I'm ready?
Speaker 1: His time will begin now, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think so, honey. Me becoming emotionally invested in ads for
Speaker 2: phone video games where it's always violence being inflicted upon
Speaker 2: a woman and or her child. It's a Have you
Speaker 2: seen these ads where it's like for an iPhone game
Speaker 2: where like the person's house is flooded or the person's
Speaker 2: kitches is on fire. What's the right tool that you
Speaker 2: should use? Is it the fire hydrant? Is it the comb?
Speaker 2: And naturally you pick the fire high. I might crazy.
Speaker 2: These are the moans that like, we've all the algorithm
Speaker 2: serves to all of us, right, okay. Garden Scapes producer
Speaker 2: Becka is saying Garden Scapes, Yes, it's always about a
Speaker 2: woman and her child being like out of a house basically,
Speaker 2: And that is it's a premise that like kind of
Speaker 2: takes you out of the world of the game a
Speaker 2: little bit, right, It like you snap back to reality. Oh,
Speaker 2: there goes gravity. I want my games to be I
Speaker 2: want to play Outer Rims and not be reminded that
Speaker 2: there is a housing crisis in our country.
Speaker 1: And that's one minute.
Speaker 4: I think Outer Rims is a different game. I like
Speaker 4: special game only.
Speaker 2: Fans, I'm saying out. I'm using Outer Rims as a
Speaker 2: perfect example to illustrate that, like any video games should
Speaker 2: not be so distressing that I like witness them a
Speaker 2: young mother or a new mother being like having to deal
Speaker 2: with a house flood, and that's all these games are about.
Speaker 1: I don't like that at all.
Speaker 4: Is Outer Rims a game that actually exists? Or is it?
Speaker 4: Are you referring to what I said about Outer.
Speaker 2: Wilds Outer Wild? I meant to say outer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I just that's okay, that's you know what?
Speaker 1: You know what the Outer Rims is bone It's a
Speaker 1: cocktail at Ogu's cantina that we just had in the Galaxies.
Speaker 1: We were just in Disney World and there's a drink tequila.
Speaker 2: We don't support the studio.
Speaker 1: There's a drink called the Outer Rim and that's what
Speaker 1: he's thinking of.
Speaker 2: And every guy there will ask you, do you know
Speaker 2: where the Outer rim is? And we're like, okay, no,
Speaker 2: don't ask us that.
Speaker 4: You want to get an outer rim and then have
Speaker 4: a drink. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: It depends, daddy, how BIG's your blaster? You a gunner
Speaker 1: or a navigator in the cockpit? Hunt, Tell me, darling,
Speaker 1: how you fly the falcon?
Speaker 2: The navigator is the bottom I guess you are. Now
Speaker 2: when you're body me, you are sort of like taking
Speaker 2: the joystick, as it were.
Speaker 1: There is a ride, so I don't know if have
Speaker 1: you been to the Star Wars Galaxies Edge? Are you
Speaker 1: a Star Wars person?
Speaker 4: I'm a Star Wars person. I haven't been. I haven't
Speaker 4: been to Galaxies Edge.
Speaker 1: Just when you get on the Millennium Falcon ride, they
Speaker 1: look at you and you're gonna get put in the cockpit,
Speaker 1: and then the the person who's running the shit looks
Speaker 1: to you and says, my top two are pilots. My
Speaker 1: second two are gunners. In the back, y'all are the navigators.
Speaker 1: And when they look at you and they say you're
Speaker 1: a gunner, they do feel like a top.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's cool. No, that's a powerful feeling. Totally, that's
Speaker 4: a powerful feeling.
Speaker 1: Okay, Bowen and I were actually Bowen and I were
Speaker 1: actually the pilots. Remember when we flew the ship bough.
Speaker 2: We didn't do good, we were pretty bad. But okay,
Speaker 2: Producer Beckett is making me feel like I'm not sorry crazy.
Speaker 1: You are not crazy, said producer Rebecca.
Speaker 4: You're not crazy.
Speaker 2: I know the word is non grata right now, but
Speaker 2: I think that this game is popping up. The ads
Speaker 2: for these kinds of games are popping up everywhere, and
Speaker 2: just look out for them. And I might have like
Speaker 2: uttered that into your algorithms and I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I bet it will happen, and I will
Speaker 1: tell you what it does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are a lot of you get a lot
Speaker 4: of ads for like sort of games where you have
Speaker 4: to shoot a bullet and it bounces and bounces and
Speaker 4: then hits the wrong person.
Speaker 1: You're talking about.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's that.
Speaker 4: And I don't think those games are real by the
Speaker 4: way they are. I think these games are well, I
Speaker 4: think you don't. They like you download them and then
Speaker 4: the game itself is different than what they're advertising. Of
Speaker 4: course time.
Speaker 2: Yes, often of lesser graphical quality. Yeah, not as fun.
Speaker 2: There's no promise of the premise delivered.
Speaker 4: M M. There you go.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think it's time. It's time for John Lovitz.
Speaker 2: I don't think somebody I'll time you. This is Are
Speaker 2: you ready?
Speaker 4: Wait, I'm gonna take a sip of water.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, it's gonna be good. This is John Lovettz.
Speaker 2: It's so right, this is John Lovitz. I don't think
Speaker 2: so many as time starts now.
Speaker 4: I don't think so, honey. Book blurbs, Oh, what are
Speaker 4: we doing here? What are we doing here? First of all,
Speaker 4: no one's read these fucking books, no one, no one
Speaker 4: has read them. These quotes are not real. I couldn't
Speaker 4: put down this unforgettable novel. It was it was. It
Speaker 4: was propulsive and insightful. People don't talk that way. They
Speaker 4: only write that way when they're writing books. Also, it
Speaker 4: feels a little desperate. Books a message to books, the
Speaker 4: message being show some confidence. All right, oh my god,
Speaker 4: we are living in a post Nanette world. Okay, I
Speaker 4: don't know what that means. The point is when capitalism
Speaker 4: smells fear, it bucks the writer books. We understand that
Speaker 4: the deck is stacked against you. A quote from Jake Tapper.
Speaker 4: Is it going to save books? We got to do better.
Speaker 4: We have to think bigger books. Blurbs. I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 2: And that's one minute.
Speaker 4: Wow. Do they move units? I think it does. Anyone
Speaker 4: know what these things are doing? Are people at the
Speaker 4: airport turning them over and saying I wasn't going to
Speaker 4: buy this book, but now I am, because Mindy Kaling
Speaker 4: says it's I was.
Speaker 2: Just going to read my name. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's hard to say.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess it would depend on the person.
Speaker 1: Like if I've put it over and it was like
Speaker 1: a rave from Tinsley Mortimer, I'd be like, well huh like,
Speaker 1: But when it's someone like Mindy Killing who you get
Speaker 1: the sense does a lot of these? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: Have you blurbs? Have you requested blurbs though yourself?
Speaker 4: When I've had to written a book?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you write a book.
Speaker 4: Impossible.
Speaker 2: When you write a book, let's let's say you have
Speaker 2: when written, it's coming out mm hmm. If your publishers
Speaker 2: like you have to, we have to get blurbs for this, John.
Speaker 1: Of course, Okay, will you ask us?
Speaker 4: Sure? Yeah? Probably I ask one of you at least, well.
Speaker 1: I know who's getting cut.
Speaker 2: It'll be joint. It'll be joint.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll be joint. It'll be it'll be by Yes,
Speaker 4: it'll be both of you.
Speaker 1: Yep, it'll say m R. Colin, I loved this book.
Speaker 1: Be why Colin? I agree? I thought it was incredible.
Speaker 1: M R. Isn't he a smart, funny kind of weird?
Speaker 4: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Have you had a nice time on this episode?
Speaker 4: I would say it was a little house forward.
Speaker 1: But other than how you, are you feeling it a
Speaker 1: little shy? Are you feeling in the post quittal that
Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't have talked about the house that much?
Speaker 4: It's a lot of house time, you know what.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about the group chat after this. I'm going
Speaker 1: to text you both on the thread.
Speaker 4: Oh really, that's exciting.
Speaker 1: I can tell that you're really happy about it by
Speaker 1: the way you smiled and looked askance.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 4: I was like when someone says, oh, group text, I
Speaker 4: immediately think, oh, there's a group chat where I'm being
Speaker 4: spoken of.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, you know.
Speaker 2: What I'm saying. You mustn't think that way.
Speaker 1: You mustn't think this way.
Speaker 4: Must you must you must be that way.
Speaker 2: I think whenever someone's mentioning a group chat in your presence,
Speaker 2: that's an invitation.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, And that feels really nice and that's a
Speaker 4: good feeling. Yeah, that's a really warm and good feeling.
Speaker 2: That's what this is too.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned because the text is coming. Listen the podcasts.
Speaker 1: I love it and leave it?
Speaker 2: And it what love it or leave it.
Speaker 1: I said, do I say love it and leave it?
Speaker 2: You said love it and leave it.
Speaker 4: You love it or leave it, They'll find it. The
Speaker 4: searching will do its thing.
Speaker 1: You just type in, you type in the man's name,
Speaker 1: and it's a treasure trove. Let's just say that.
Speaker 2: If you'll have a book coming out sometime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a shame. If you don't write a book.
Speaker 4: We're maybe maybe we'll see. Hey, what did you watch
Speaker 4: the Space?
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one to watch.
Speaker 2: Watch the Space like we scoop sow.
Speaker 4: And we're going on tour. It's going on tour.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, coming.
Speaker 4: To a sitting near you.
Speaker 2: Come to a sitting near you. The stage will have
Speaker 2: a rug and a couch on it.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm maybe yeah, maybe like a plush chair, you know,
Speaker 4: a table for water.
Speaker 2: I love it. If I'm in the audience and I'm
Speaker 2: looking at that on stage, I'm comfortable.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know you're for a good time. For a good time.
Speaker 1: Listen, this has been so fun. We do end the
Speaker 1: every episode with the song. And even though you feel
Speaker 1: you have musical knowledge that is like limited. I want
Speaker 1: you to pick the song that we sing on the
Speaker 1: way out. You want me to pick the song, That's
Speaker 1: what I said, mm hmm. Just like any song, you
Speaker 1: will sing it and that will be the last thing
Speaker 1: that's heard on your episode of Lost coult Teresa's before
Speaker 1: you return exile by Taylor.
Speaker 4: Bye Taylor, I don't know it.
Speaker 1: That was so many hesa wait, oh my god, Taylor, Taylor,
Speaker 1: Bye bye,