WEBVTT - Productive procrastination, with Jorge Cham 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:15.080 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.360 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:20.480 the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.000 take their days from great to awesome and any advice. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.160 They have for the rest of us. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.840 So today I am delighted to welcome Jorge Cham to 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.800 the show. Jorge is the host of the podcast Science Stuff, 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.600 among many other things. So Orge, welcome to the show. 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:37.279 Hi, thanks for having me. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.560 Yeah, so, why don't you tell our listeners a little 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:40.400 bit about yourself? 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.080 Yeah, so again, my name is Hoorge Cham and what 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.680 you might call a recovering academic. So I'm someone who 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.720 used to be on track to be a professor or 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.320 a researcher at a university. Somewhere during research on robotics. 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.400 So I with PhD in robotics, but somewhere along the 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.480 line I got a little bit sidetracked by a cartooning career. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.320 Now you might be wondering what is having a PhD 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.840 in robotics and being a cartoonons have in common? And 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.720 I can tell you my parents are also very concerned 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:11.080 about that I can imagine. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.880 It's quite the pivot. Maybe you can talk a little 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.800 bit about what inspired that pivot. I mean, I find 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.320 cartoons cool, so I understand. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.039 But yeah, yeah, it's been super interesting. So while I 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.640 was getting my degree in robotics, I just happened to 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.720 have this hobby of drawing comics, and so I do 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.000 this comic strip for the Stanford Daily newspaper. They're like 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.839 the student newspaper, and it's called pal Tier and Deeper 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.160 or PhD Comics, and the best way to describe it, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.959 it's kind of like Dilbert, but sat in a university's 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.200 spoken fun at professors, students, the administration, all that. And 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.000 then at some point I put it online and it 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.240 sort of went viral over the years to the point 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:51.360 where I realized that these comics were much more popular 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.040 than the research I was doing. So I decided to 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.480 kind of give it a go, and so I opted 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:00.280 for a kind of a creative career in stead of 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.640 an academic career, and it's been a wild ride. I 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.280 did those comics for about fifteen years, got to travel 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:10.200 the world, produced a couple of movies based on it, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.120 and then that eventually led to books and a television 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.760 show for kids on PBS Kids, and now this amazing 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.160 and super fun podcast called Science Stuff for iHeart. 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.519 Yeah, well you've been doing the podcasting for a couple 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.480 of years now in different iterations, right. 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:27.960 Yeah. I was one of the co hosts and co 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.560 creators of a podcast called Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.320 a very humbly called a titled podcast, but we're mostly 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.240 talked about physics and kind of the exploring the universe 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.200 and how things work. But after about five to six 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.440 years that podcasts ended, and now I'm doing this for 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:47.600 iHeart Science Stuff. 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:50.560 Well, what's the goal that you have with Science Stuff? 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.040 Yeah, the goal is to make science fun and accessible 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.480 for an everyday person. So every episode we tackle a 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:02.160 really fun and fascinating question like dour pets lie to us, 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:05.200 what is inside of a black hole? Or could you 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.120 survive getting cryogenically frozen? Or something that's on the news, Lady, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.560 what is a quantum computer? So we do you know, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.360 quick thirty to forty minute breakdowns to what are the 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.280 main things, what are the main things to understand? We 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.360 talk to experts, We keep it sort of light and 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.040 fun and accessible to everyone. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:23.400 Yeah, that sounds great. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.720 Well, and I want to talk about an episode that 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.960 you did not mention in your list there, but I'm 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.400 sure is one that people will reference frequently, including my 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.560 own children, which is the idea of whether you need 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.560 to wait thirty minutes after eating. 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.680 In order to go back in the pool or ocean. 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:44.080 So as we are coming up to swimming season, maybe 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.120 you can, maybe you can address that topic for us. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.920 Is it yeah, do we need to wait thirty minutes? 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:50.720 Well, you can't have to listen to the episode, but 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:52.640 I'll break down here. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.920 Maybe just a hint for people listening to this. 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.080 No, I'm happy to talk about it. So it's one 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.320 of our episodes that are out right now. It's people 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.360 can listen to them right now. And the question is 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:03.960 do you have really have to wait thirty minutes after 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.680 eating before you can go swimming? And this is really 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.720 kind of a personal question for me in the episode 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.160 because I grew up in Panama swimming a lot in 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:14.320 pools at the beach and my aunt, my mom's sister, 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.360 was a pediatrician. She was a doctor, and she would 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.800 always be the one saying, no, you get after eating, 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.240 you gotta stop wait and just sit there and be 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.920 totally bored for thirty minutes before you can go back 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:26.960 to swimming. And so I really wanted to know was 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.560 my aunt lying to me the whole time? And so 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:32.720 I go on this quest where I talk to a 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.320 doctor who used to be a competitivist competitive swimmer, and 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:40.720 I talked to a physiologist who specializes in exercise and 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.720 how it relates to heorty digestive system. And what's kind 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.560 of interesting is you find out that a couple of 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:51.960 the myth myth myths around this advice kind of turn 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:53.600 out to be not true. So a lot of people 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.200 think that if you eat too soon before you go eating, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.839 you might get cramps. Well, actually turns out that scientists 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.840 don't really know what causes cramps. First of all, that's 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.200 a little bit mind blowing, but also it turns out 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.760 that they think that actually what causes cramps is not eating. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.839 So if you don't have enough sugar or electrolytes in 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.520 your body, you might actually be the thing that causes cramps. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:17.800 And the other thing that a lot of people say 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.120 is that why you shouldn't swim is that they think 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.640 that maybe your stomach sucks all the blood in your 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.120 body when it's trying to digest, and that's also turns 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.560 out to be not quite true. The physiologists said that actually, 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:32.760 your muscles are basically like huge hogs in your body. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.680 If they need blood, they're going to take it from 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.560 anywhere they can, anywhere in your body. And so you 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:40.520 really don't have to need to worry because also your 0:05:40.520 --> 0:05:42.920 heart is pumping faster, so you know your stomach is 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:48.200 getting enough blood. The problem is, though, that your body 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.840 doesn't kind of like having food in its stomach, you know, 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.200 when it's kind of how your body tells you that 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.560 you've eaten enough, and so it gives you this feeling 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.400 being full, and you feel a little bit uncomfortable. And 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:04.120 so actually doing high intensity activity like swimming or or 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.719 doing a lot of laps will actually cost it digestion 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.120 to slow down, and so that's why you might feel 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.400 uncomfortable if you swim too soon after eating. 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:15.640 So, yeah, but it's not the cramps. You're not gonna 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:16.760 cramp up and immediately drowned. 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.680 You're Yeah, you heard. 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:20.400 Different versions of it. 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:22.440 I mean, there was your aunt had thirty minutes, but 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.840 I've I've heard people as much as an hour with 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.760 that saying that would be even worse, so you could. Yeah, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.640 I know, but it's funny because you know, for other sports, 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.200 like we're sitting there giving our little soccer players like 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.680 orange slices and whatever, like we're giving them calories. 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:40.400 While they're exercising. 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.120 But but I mean, obviously you wouldn't want to eat 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.240 a huge meal and then immediately try to like run 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:46.719 a raise. 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.760 Yeah, I think orange bananas some juice is probably great 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.960 for the sugar and the electrolytes. But you know, two 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:57.240 cheeseburgers before going on laps or swimming out until lake 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.120 is you don't have to wait the thirty minutes, but 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:02.640 you probably should write or. 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.560 Maybe just not eat the two cheeseburgers another idea. Well, 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:08.120 we're going to take a quick ad break and then 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:17.760 I'll be back with more from Hoorge Cham. Well, I 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.520 am back with Hororge cham who is the host of 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.720 the new podcast Science Stuff. He's been telling us that 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.760 maybe we don't need to wait thirty minutes before going 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:31.640 in the water after swimming. But another thing, I'm sure 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:36.120 many people are wondering, can you survive being cryogenically frozen. 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:38.440 I don't know that I was planning on doing it, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:40.000 but maybe some of my listeners. 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:44.280 Were, yeah, you might want to put those plans on ice, 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:48.560 okay literally as it were, yes, yeah, yeah. So there 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.960 is another episode that is currently out and people can 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:54.000 listen to it, but it's about asking the question, if 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.280 you know, if you have a certain illness that they 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.000 don't have a cure for right now, or if you 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.800 want to go to a distant star. You know, the 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.640 closest stars about forty trillion miles away, so it's going 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.200 to take a while to get there. So if we 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.800 over ever really want to explore the cosmos, we kind 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.520 of have to figure out how to pause life, you know. 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.280 Or you just want to kind of see what the 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.560 future is like. You might want to get frozen and 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.600 then you wake up when there's flying cars and jet 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:18.960 pegs and all that. So there's definitely a lot of 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.400 reasons to do it. And so in the episode, we 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:28.200 dive deep with biologist who studies frogs, these wood frogs 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:32.160 that apparently have adapted to survived these long winters out 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:38.559 there in the cold Arctic and the weather, and they're 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.120 able to survive having their whole body frozen basically because 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:47.440 they develop an adaptation to produce anti freeze in their body. Yeah, 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:51.000 they as they're freezing, their livers suddenly get super hyperactive 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:52.400 and they produce a lot of sugar and then that 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.480 sugar kind of acts and x as an anti freeze 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.000 to let them survive being frozen. But that wouldn't really 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.800 work for humans because basically we would die from the 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.000 diabetic shock. 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:07.040 Yeah, we don't have that adaptation yet. We're not evolved. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.000 To freeze like frogs in the Arctic winter. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:09.720 Yeah. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.000 I think there's probably some interesting things with like freezing 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:15.080 individual organs, right, Like I think you guys explored this, Like, 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.000 I mean, you know, right now, our transplant system is 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:20.120 stuck by the fact that you have to get these 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.559 organs where they're going very quickly, and if you had 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.920 a match from say somebody in you know, Tokyo, when 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.120 you're in New York, like you're not getting that organ 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:30.960 for the most part. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.240 Yeah. Yeah, that's something we also take a deep dive in. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.600 We actually talked to the CEO of one of these 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.040 companies that will freeze you, Like they'll freeze your organs, 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.240 but they also freeze your brain if you wanted to, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.960 or they'll freeze your whole body if you think you're 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.480 not going to make it. So it's super fascinating. And 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.959 what they're able to do now is basically use the 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.120 same technique sas as a frog sort of. They use 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.960 a kind of anti freeze called glycole ethylene glycole or 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.360 some glycerine, some sort of sugar alcohol and replace all 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.600 the water in the cells of these organs, and then 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.960 you can freeze them because that that doesn't turn to ice, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.120 it sort of turns into more of like a glass. 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.160 And so you're you're able to do things for simple 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:18.720 things like like sperm or embryos if you if you're 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:23.040 going through IVF or in viature fertilization uh those that works. 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.880 You can replace the water dipping in liquid nitigen and 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.800 then have it survived. It gets a lot trickier when 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:33.240 you get to more complicated organs, so like your liver, 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.200 even your liver or your muscles or and especially your brain. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.480 It's just so complicated and so fragile that they haven't 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.040 quite figured out how to get those two sorts. So 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.240 you can freeze them, but you might not survive the. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:45.760 Might survive the process. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.440 You just have a frozen thing and you know it 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.079 just can't unfreeze very well. Yeah, like like some of 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.040 the things I put in my freezer when they when 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:54.520 they come out. 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.680 Yeah, I'm not sure that. Yeah, freezer burn, freaser burn 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.319 is a real thing, and you don't want them in 0:10:59.360 --> 0:10:59.800 your brain. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:01.400 Don't want that for sure. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.439 Well, on this podcast we talk a lot about time management, productivity. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.520 You've done a lot of things in your life for hey, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.800 I understand that your productivity secret, as it were, is 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.760 productive procrastination. Maybe you can enlighten us on what that is. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.360 Yeah, Yeah, I like to think of myself as a 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:23.600 professional procrastinator. I sort of cent her my whole life 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.440 and time management around this idea. And before I get 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:29.680 into trouble with any of your listeners and who procrastinate 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.720 and then they get into trouble, there's sort of two 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.840 things you have to really attach to this idea to 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.640 make it work. So these are very im poorinent things. 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:41.160 So the first one is my belief that procrastination is 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:45.400 not the same thing as laziness. So we often associate 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.120 it to but actually if you separate the two, you 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.920 will have a better go at it. So laziness that's 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.600 when you don't want to do anything procrastination just means 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.400 you don't want to do it now. So there are 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.800 two different things. And the idea is that if you 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.959 put off doing something and then you don't get it done, 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.600 then that's laziness. But if you just put something off 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.000 doing something, if you just put off doing something and 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.679 then you get it done, then that's just procrastination. So 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:17.679 it's kind of a way to hold yourself accountable. If 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.280 you don't get it done, you can procrastinate, but if 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:21.959 you don't get it done, then then you're just kind 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:24.760 of being lazy, Okay. And then the second thing that's 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:33.160 important is to think about this idea that I think 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.360 we do our best work when we're doing what we 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.680 want to be doing instead of when we're doing what 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:40.960 we think we should be doing. Okay, So if you 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.760 look at the definition of procrastination, it means to do 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:46.840 things that you want to do instead of doing the 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.800 things that you feel you should be doing. So I 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.360 sort of organize my life by I wake up every morning, 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.400 I make a list of the things that I need 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.760 to do, and I look at sort of the how 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.240 urgent some of them are, Whether this one's a pretty 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.920 late look of this one's do today, tomorrow, the next week. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.280 And then instead of going down the list by what 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:12.000 is more urgent, I go down the list by what 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.000 I want to do. Like, I look at this list 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.360 and I think, well, I know I need to really 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.559 do this, and I know this is really important, but 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.040 right now, what I really feel like doing is doing this, 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.920 And so that's I'm sort of procrastinating by definition, but 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.760 I'm so motivated and I'm much more excited and enthusiastic 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:31.160 about doing it that I think in the end it 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:32.559 comes out to be better work. 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:34.720 But do you ever get to the things that you 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.480 were supposed to do or do we just forget those? 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:38.440 Yeah? 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.080 Why where does that happen in the course of tackling 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:41.760 this to do list? 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.400 Yeah? Yeah, Well I can get a little bit tricky. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.080 But basically, if you sort of do all the things 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.319 you want to do, once you get those done, then 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.840 you just left with the things that are urgent and 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:53.800 that you didn't want to do in the morning. But 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.920 at that point, you know, you know they're important for you, 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.520 so you're just going to get them done at the 0:13:58.640 --> 0:13:59.200 end of the day. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.800 So I have found, you know, and maybe this is 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.080 a version of this. I sometimes get myself to do 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.840 all sorts of things that I wasn't sure I wanted 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.120 to do by putting something else on my list that. 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:09.800 I truly do not want to do. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.520 So by once that thing is on the list and 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:14.920 I really don't want to do that, I'm like, well, 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:16.880 you know this other like I don't want to do 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.880 my taxes. But compared to that, like calling this person 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.640 and having this unpleasant conversation, Okay, Like that's not so bad. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.920 I'm just having a conversation or editing this document. That's 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.880 a mess, but you know it's it's just editing. It's 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.320 all my taxes, right, Like is that something you ever. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:33.080 Find yourself doing? 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.640 Sort of? Sometimes? You know, I find that the brain 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.160 is so clever and adaptable that any kind of trick, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.400 any kind of scheme you try to implement to fool 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.040 your own brain or to get you to do things 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.440 you don't really want to do, ultimately your brain is 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.280 going to adapt to them, or it's going to find excuses, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.480 or it's going to basically realize I don't really have 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.240 to do this. And so for me, at least, what's 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:58.960 worked is just to really think about I want to 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.720 motivated to do you know, what is it that I 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.480 really want to do, and focus on that. And you know, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.320 once you get all the fun stuff done, at the 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:07.880 end of the day, you're like, oh, I have some time. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.040 I really need to make that. Then disappointment. I really 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:14.440 want to have nice teeth. I don't want to have cavities. 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.200 All right, I'll make that call. And so that's kind 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:19.400 of how I organize my life. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:19.960 Excellent. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.200 Well, you mentioned that you sit down in the morning 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:23.800 and do this. I'm wondering if you have any other 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:25.840 sort of routines you do during the day that have 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:27.520 been helpful in your life. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.440 Yeah, great question. I do that. I have a lot 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.680 of sticky notes around me. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.480 What do the sticky notes do for you? 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.720 Well, they just let me write down those things that 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.280 I need to do. So I have a little notepad, 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.560 I'll write down little notes and I'll stick it on 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.720 my desk, and then at some point they accumulate and 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.040 grow to a huge pile, and then I really have 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.200 to you know, on a weekend afternoon, I'll just sit 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.480 down and try to get those done. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.240 Excellent, everything, that's all the sticky notes. Well, we're going 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:02.880 to take one more quick ad break and then I'll 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:12.240 be back with more from Hordey Jam. Well, we are 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.960 back with Hoorgey Cham who is the host of the 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.080 Science Stuff podcast, along with many other things, including a 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.200 long career in the comic world. So I am very 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.880 curious about the creative process for doing a comic. I mean, 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.240 I can tell you about the creative process for writing 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.920 or coming up with podcast ideas, but when it's something visual, 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.320 like what, how are you playing around with ideas or 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.760 processing ideas before you have the finished artwork? 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:39.280 Yeah, well, for me, it sort of starts way before 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.480 I even sit down to think about them. You know, 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.400 when you're a cartoonist and you know you have that 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:47.200 pressure of coming up with a comic strip every so often. 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.640 It is for some people it's every day, for some 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.240 people it's every other day. You sort of learned to 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.920 always have your antenna whenever you're talking to friends or family, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.000 or whenever you're out in the world. You're always sitting 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.200 desperate for ideas, and you're always desperate for those little 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.679 nuggets of truth that are just floating out there that 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.640 make you go, oh that's funny or huh, I wonder 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.359 why people do that, And so you it's for me. 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.919 The process starts way before even sitting down, which is 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.399 I always have this antenna up, and then when I 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:21.040 sit down, I sit down with a notepad. In this case, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.000 it's a digital notepad. It's a Samsung tablet. I love 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.760 that machine. I have this one that I've been using 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.359 for like five years. It's helped me write about five 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.880 books and about thirty television episodes that I've written, and 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.000 so it's just this really great way to brainstorm and 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.520 then just write things down. I think most people know 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.520 that when you write things down, it's basically like expanding 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:51.640 your memory or expanding your ram memory if you're sort 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.360 of a computer geek, where you can sort of lay 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.760 down ideas, spin them on papers and then they're floating 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.480 there and then you can access them and make connections 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.240 to it. And I especially like using a digital notebook 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.760 because it's sort of like an infinite canvas. So if 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:07.920 you use a notepad, at some point you're going to 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:09.600 hit the edge of the paper, But if you use 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.800 a digital notepad, you can you can just keep doodling 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.560 and making connections and following a path. So I am 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.239 very visual when I've brainstorm, and when I write, I 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.679 sort of doodle along and make little sketches and then 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.960 connect those two words and then write out a paragraph 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:30.840 by Longhand and yeah it's one of my favorite parts. Yeah. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:32.840 Well, I imagine like there are certain thoughts that make 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.760 a good comic. I mean, especially if you're thinking about 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:36.560 like a three panel comic, like what what you know, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.840 the setup, the you know, teeing up the end and 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:41.800 the punchline in the last one, or. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:43.760 However it goes. I mean, I it must just. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.000 Be a certain mental model that you then have of 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.440 the universe and putting everything in that order. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.320 Yeah. Yeah, there's always sort of like the setup, the development, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.200 the punchline, and then the after punchline in a typical 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.960 comic strip. But again, it all starts with that nug 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.000 it of truth, you know, like why do we procrastinate, 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.919 for example, or what's the first thing would that we 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:10.880 do in the morning. Why isn't it usually the thing 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.440 that is maybe most pressing? Or you know, if you're 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:20.119 in a position where you're working with somebody, why detail 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.359 them certain things at certain times? So those little nuggets 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:24.480 are true, That's where it starts. And then and then 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:26.960 I try to build the sort of the setup and 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:27.840 the scene around it. 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:29.560 Yeah, excellent, excellent. 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.040 So I'm curious then, what your daily schedule tends to 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:34.160