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Speaker 1: On this episode of news World. Doctor Michael Roysen is

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Speaker 1: the emeritus Chief Wellness Officer at the Cleveland Clinic, a

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Speaker 1: professor at the Cleveland Clinic, Learner College of Medicine at

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Speaker 1: Case Western Reserve University, and author of four number one

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Speaker 1: New York Times bestselling books. He has written more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred and ninety peer reviewed scientific articles and has

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Speaker 1: been recognized with an ELI, an Emmy, and the Paul G.

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Speaker 1: Rodgers Award for the National Library of Medicine for Best

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Speaker 1: Medical Communicator. He's joining me today to discuss his latest book,

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Speaker 1: which I recommend very highly, The Great Age Reboot, Cracking

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Speaker 1: the Longevity Code for a Younger Tomorrow. Michael, welcome and

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining me on neut World.

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Speaker 2: My privilege.

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Speaker 3: We've talked a fair bit together in the early two

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Speaker 3: thousands about real age, so this is a reunion and

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Speaker 3: you are clearly a leader in this area, So thank you.

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Speaker 1: My admiration for your research is very deep. But I'm

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Speaker 1: curious you took the leap into anti aging research.

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Speaker 2: What led you there?

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Speaker 1: Why did you begin to focus on that?

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Speaker 3: Well, believe it or not, this started in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to run an ICU, and I got to

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Speaker 3: do that. I had done both intromedicine and anesthesia training

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Speaker 3: because in that era they weren't ICU training programs, and

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Speaker 3: I didn't think the domain of either one was enough.

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Speaker 3: So I was doing this at UC San Francisco when

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Speaker 3: they asked me to take over cardiovask anesthesia wasn't because

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Speaker 3: I was so great. It was because the surgeons were

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Speaker 3: difficult to work with. But all they cared about was,

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Speaker 3: in fact, the outcome of their patients. And what we

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Speaker 3: found was that it wasn't cardiac functional, lung function, of liver,

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Speaker 3: function of brain function. What determined outcome, complication rate, and

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Speaker 3: return to function was their age. It was a threefold

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Speaker 3: difference between someone is seventy five and sixty five and

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Speaker 3: ninefold difference. That is, someone who was seventy five undergoing

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Speaker 3: the same operation had a ninefold increase in risk compared

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Speaker 3: to someone who's fifty five. So my job, I thought,

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Speaker 3: was how do we get people to be physiologically twenty

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Speaker 3: years younger in that two week surrounding their operation. So

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Speaker 3: that's what started it. As we learned that you could

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Speaker 3: sow aging physiologically. You know, we used to think that

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Speaker 3: exercise was good for the brain because it increased bloodfloil.

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Speaker 3: But we learned after the Human Genome Project, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was three billion dollars in NIH money, three billion

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Speaker 3: dollars on the private side to get the same thing now,

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Speaker 3: which shows how fast science is advancing since then is

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Speaker 3: one hundred dollars. But what we learned was that it

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Speaker 3: wasn't exercise wasn't just good because it increased blood flow,

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Speaker 3: but it changed which of your genes was on or not.

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Speaker 3: That is, it changes the functioning of your genes. We

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Speaker 3: have switches. That's what we learned from the Human Genome Project,

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Speaker 3: and we control at least eighty percent, maybe ninety three

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Speaker 3: percent of the switches that turn our genes on or off,

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Speaker 3: and which ones.

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Speaker 2: Are on or off or under your control.

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Speaker 3: So when you exercise and stress a muscle, you turn

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Speaker 3: on a gene that makes a small protein called ARISM

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Speaker 3: that goes to the brain and increases it turns on

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Speaker 3: brain derived neurotropic growth factor, which is like miracle growth

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Speaker 3: for your hippocampus your memory center, and does much better. Similarly,

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Speaker 3: when you do that, you turn on a gene in

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Speaker 3: the liver. We have no idea why that fixes the

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Speaker 3: blood brain barrier to prevent inflammation from going to the brain.

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Speaker 2: So what we've.

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Speaker 3: Learned is that maybe we can in fact turn back

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Speaker 3: the mechanism of aging by correcting the defects that we've

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Speaker 3: developed since age sixteen or eighteen. And they are now

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Speaker 3: fourteen areas of research into the mechanism of aging that

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Speaker 3: we detail, and each one has changed the rate of

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Speaker 3: aging from about a ninety year old person back to

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Speaker 3: a forty year old person equivalent in at least two

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Speaker 3: animal species. So now we have this incredible opportunity that's

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Speaker 3: going to occur in the next decade or so.

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Speaker 1: One a typical forty year old comes here and says,

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Speaker 1: I want to live longer. What do you say to them.

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Speaker 3: We know of at least one hundred and eighty things

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Speaker 3: that have been shown in two studies in humans that

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Speaker 3: help you avoid chronic disease, help you avoid structural damage,

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Speaker 3: and let you live healthier, much longer. In nineteen nine,

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Speaker 3: when we came out with real Age, we said sixty

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Speaker 3: could be the new forty. That's actually happened. Sixty can

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Speaker 3: be the new forty. We now believe ninety can be

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Speaker 3: the new forty. But each of us has enormous power

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Speaker 3: over our genes. Let me give you an example. You say, well,

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Speaker 3: what does stress management do? Just meditating for six minutes

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Speaker 3: a day, which is what is required on strength to

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Speaker 3: get stress management. Well, it turns off or on over

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Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty six genes. Some of those genes

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Speaker 3: produce inflammatory proteins, and you get to turn those off

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Speaker 3: just by meditating, something as simple as meditating or deep breathing,

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Speaker 3: or they're twelve different techniques for stress management, including having

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Speaker 3: friends you talk to. But doing that decreases inflammation. Now

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Speaker 3: what does information do. It's the major cause of kidney damage.

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Speaker 3: We worry a lot about developing kidney damage, especially if

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Speaker 3: you get type two diabetes.

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Speaker 2: Well, guess what.

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Speaker 3: You can turn off inflammation by a number of techniques. Yes,

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Speaker 3: walking helps do it, but so does stress management, so

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Speaker 3: to food choices. But just something as simple as that

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Speaker 3: six minutes a day will let you live a lot

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Speaker 3: longer without chronic disease. That means enjoying disability. Longevity or

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Speaker 3: what we call making yourself younger, making your real age

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Speaker 3: or actual age younger than your calendar age. It's doable,

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Speaker 3: and there are more just for your brain. There are

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Speaker 3: forty things that have been shown in more than two studies.

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Speaker 3: A simple one taking four smells a day, coffee, alcohol, whatever,

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Speaker 3: four smells you want to smell, but do it deeply

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Speaker 3: to function, to cause your olfactory nerve to function younger,

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Speaker 3: and that clears up a lot of brain disease. We

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Speaker 3: don't know why, but it does. It's just like we

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Speaker 3: didn't know why exercise was so good for the brain,

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Speaker 3: but now we know it turns on some genes. We

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Speaker 3: didn't know why stress management was so good for the kidney.

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Speaker 3: Now we know it decreases inflammation that makes the kidney older.

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Speaker 3: So we have enormous power, and so to the average

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Speaker 3: forty year old, we say one, we educate as to

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Speaker 3: why they have so much power, and then we start

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Speaker 3: them on things they want to do. People aren't going

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Speaker 3: to do one hundred and eighty things, but they will

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Speaker 3: do one, two or three, and then they'll build habits

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Speaker 3: as they go along and get much younger. Most important

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Speaker 3: habit is friends, a posse, and a purpose in life.

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Speaker 3: Those are the two things, and then you add play

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Speaker 3: to it, and that's the most important things for decreasing age.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm very curious because you make a distinction. I

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Speaker 1: hadn't thought about it, and that is you asked the question,

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Speaker 1: you know what's better than having cells younger, having them

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Speaker 1: actually be younger, and you talk about cellular regeneration. Now,

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Speaker 1: is that really happening.

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Speaker 3: In animal species? It is really happening. That is what

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Speaker 3: determines how old or young we are our cells are

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Speaker 3: is the proteins that our genes produce. And what we

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Speaker 3: learn is that the switches that control our genes to

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Speaker 3: be on or off. We have twenty two five hundred genes,

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Speaker 3: but we have many more switches. And what determines whether

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Speaker 3: those switches are on or off a our actions to

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Speaker 3: a great degree. As we age, we change some of

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Speaker 3: those settings, the original factory settings on their switches. What

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Speaker 3: we've learned is you can reset those or you can

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Speaker 3: get rid of old cells and have the majority of

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Speaker 3: your cells be younger. Those are two different theories. One

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Speaker 3: is an epigenetic resetting. Yamanaka won the Nobel Prize for

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Speaker 3: it in mice, and what he showed was if you

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Speaker 3: turned four genes on, you actually corrected the errors in

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Speaker 3: your epigenes and the animal, the mice instead of functioning

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Speaker 3: as a ninety year old mouse and being a ninety

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Speaker 3: week old mouse, functioned as the equivalent of a forty

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Speaker 3: year old human and being a forty week old mouse,

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Speaker 3: and they lived as though they were forty weeks that is,

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Speaker 3: they lived about fifty percent longer. The problem was that

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Speaker 3: when you turned all four of those genes on, that

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Speaker 3: twenty percent of the mice developed cancer within the equivalent

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Speaker 3: of two human years. Well now six groups, the latest

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Speaker 3: one being coal Eco which is the Google Moonshot group,

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Speaker 3: have shown that if you turn on only three of

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Speaker 3: those genes, you actually reset your switches without the development

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Speaker 3: of t answer. And so that's one of the areas.

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Speaker 3: It's now done it in dogs, and we understand in

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Speaker 3: George Church's lab at Harvard MIT, and we understand this

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Speaker 3: is going to go into human trials pretty soon. Another

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Speaker 3: one of these is just what we call therapeutic plasma exchange.

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Speaker 3: You donate plasma and you get paid for it, so

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Speaker 3: it's not very expensive. But in this case, it washes

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Speaker 3: the red cells, it gives you fresh plasma, You get

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Speaker 3: rid of your old proteins, forcing your body to make

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Speaker 3: new proteins, and it gets yoursells and body to function

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Speaker 3: as if it's much younger. That's a second technique that

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Speaker 3: has worked in more than two animal species and we're

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Speaker 3: now seeing it in humans. It's the young bod to

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Speaker 3: old blood. The convoys did a hook up, a pair biosis,

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Speaker 3: where they hooked a old rat and a young ratation up.

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Speaker 3: The old rat became younger, the young rat became older.

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Speaker 3: For fifty five years, they were looking what was it

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Speaker 3: in the young rats blood that made the old rat young?

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Speaker 3: It wasn't that. It was that the old rat got

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Speaker 3: rid of his old proteins. Only in the last three

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Speaker 3: years has that been recognized, and so we can reset

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Speaker 3: that and the cells actually function with young proteins as

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Speaker 3: if they're young cells.

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Speaker 1: At Osaki University they're actually now having a transplant of

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Speaker 1: a special kind of cardiac stem cell, and that seems

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Speaker 1: to be having a really profound impact.

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Speaker 3: Right, there are fourteen areas, and you've hit on another one,

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Speaker 3: which is can we give you stem cells if you're

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Speaker 3: injured and get it to function as if younger? And

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Speaker 3: let me go over how this was first developed in humans.

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Speaker 3: At the Cleveland Cornic they did a male heart transplant

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Speaker 3: into a female person and This female was living fine,

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Speaker 3: but then she developed a heart attack. She developed afterosclerosis. Again,

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Speaker 3: this was before statins, in before a lot of them, stints,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. So she rushed back to the hospital when

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Speaker 3: she was having chest pain, got her blood flow opened,

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Speaker 3: and initially her ejection fraction, the amount of blood squeezed

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Speaker 3: out of her heart every beat, went from fifty five

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Speaker 3: percent where it had been after the transplant, down to

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Speaker 3: thirty percent when she had the heart attack. But over

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Speaker 3: six weeks it got back to fifty five percent. They

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Speaker 3: did a biopsy of her heart and her stem cells

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Speaker 3: were repairing the male if you will heart so, if

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Speaker 3: you get to the hospital fast enough after a heart

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Speaker 3: attack or stroke and get the blood flow opened, it

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Speaker 3: isn't just a marginal tissue that improves. It's that you

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Speaker 3: have exces zones. You sell factors that call for stem

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Speaker 3: cells and they come and repair it. Well, what do

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Speaker 3: we do we run out of stem cells. We only

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Speaker 3: have so many duplications of our stem cells, So the

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Speaker 3: question is can we get ourselves to manufacture more. Well,

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Speaker 3: in this experiment in Japan, what they found is they

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Speaker 3: can take stem cells from you, grow them in culture,

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Speaker 3: and give them back to you, and it takes about

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Speaker 3: forty million stem cells. You hear about stem cell things

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Speaker 3: in the United States, that's eight hundred to one thousand.

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Speaker 2: It's useless.

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Speaker 3: You need twenty million to forty million at least, so

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Speaker 3: you need to grow them. Well, you grow them externally. Well,

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Speaker 3: what's the limit on that. It's very expensive on a

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Speaker 3: one on one basis. So in Japan what they did

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Speaker 3: is they found out again it was actually a American scientist,

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Speaker 3: Mike West, who figured out how to knock out the

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Speaker 3: immunogenicity the way of our stem cells being attacked by

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Speaker 3: our body if they're grown outside. If we take someone

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Speaker 3: else's stem cells, he knocks out the imogenicity of the

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Speaker 3: stem cells. They grow four trillion, and they can give

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Speaker 3: these to one hundred different people in a relatively inexpensive fashion.

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Speaker 3: So that experiment is going on to say can we

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Speaker 3: repair an injured heart that way? The early results are

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Speaker 3: very promising. That's one of the things. Another company, a

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Speaker 3: Hopkins offshoot company, has figured out how to grow the

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Speaker 3: stem cells by giving you a pill that helps you

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Speaker 3: elongate what we call your telomeres, so you can grow

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Speaker 3: your own stem cells much more. Another company, a viv

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Speaker 3: from Israel is learned how to use again an expensive technique,

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Speaker 3: hormetic hyperbaric oxygen to stimulate as if you're hypoxic, which helps.

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Speaker 2: Grow stem cells.

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Speaker 3: So there are three different approaches all to tell me

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Speaker 3: your lengthening to get us to have stem cell replacement.

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Speaker 3: Stem cells are the original matriarchs. They're the mothers of

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Speaker 3: the human body from which everything comes. So when you

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Speaker 3: have your stem cells, you can repair things.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I was striking in your new book,

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Speaker 1: you suggest that all of these different breakthroughs combined mean

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Speaker 1: that today's twenty year old is likely to live much

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Speaker 1: longer on average, and to be dramatically healthier. Can you

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Speaker 1: walk through just a little bit of the scale of

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Speaker 1: change that you and vision coming.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: In the book, we were pretty conservative, so I'm going

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Speaker 3: to be that conservative if you will. Imagine you live

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Speaker 3: thirty more years, so you live to one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifteen or one hundred and ten, but you're a.

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Speaker 2: Forty to sixty year old.

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Speaker 3: So instead of drawing Social Security at age sixty one

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Speaker 3: or sixty two, or instead of having Medicare at sixty five,

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Speaker 3: you'd stop working at maybe seventy five or eighty five.

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Speaker 3: In addition, you'd be vigorous and be able to enjoy

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Speaker 3: a family much longer. Now that's with one reboot in mice.

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Speaker 3: We are now seeing the second reboots where you can

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Speaker 3: take a ninety week old mouse, make him forty. When

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Speaker 3: he gets to ninety week old, make him forty again.

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Speaker 3: Imagine that none of this is in humans, and mice

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Speaker 3: aren't humans. But imagine you being productive for thirty more years.

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Speaker 3: And I'm looking forward to it. I hope you are too.

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Speaker 1: What I'm struck by and all of this work on longevity,

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Speaker 1: it was described to me by somebody who said, if

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Speaker 1: you think of longevity as a tree, as you gradually

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Speaker 1: get older, there are branches that come off the tree

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Speaker 1: diabetes or heart disease or whatever, and we'd focus enormous

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Speaker 1: amounts of resources on the branches, very intensely, focused on

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Speaker 1: each of these specific disease centers. But they said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, if you grew the tree longer so that

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Speaker 1: you didn't get to those branches until much much later

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Speaker 1: in life. First of all, if the change would by

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Speaker 1: itself save medicare for the rest of our lives, because

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Speaker 1: you would be moving all of the cost structures way

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Speaker 1: out of where they are. And second, people would be

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Speaker 1: so much healthier and so much more active that it

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Speaker 1: would change all of the equations we have about what

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Speaker 1: we expect out of people, and we would change the

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Speaker 1: propensity to remain active both financially and politically and socially

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Speaker 1: in ways that would be literally a different society. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that's pie in the sky or is that

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Speaker 1: actually a reasonable analysis?

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Speaker 3: I think that's very reasonable. But I think part of

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Speaker 3: it is we're going to have to keep what I

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Speaker 3: would call preventing unforced theirrors. That is, there are still

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Speaker 3: things that will cause bathosclerosis or plaque in your arteries,

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Speaker 3: and we know how to prevent that now to a

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Speaker 3: large degree, and so you're going to have to be

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Speaker 3: willing to do that. Exercise is important for keeping your

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Speaker 3: functions young. I think that tree analogy is a wonderful analogy,

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Speaker 3: and we're try and steal that.

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Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that is fascinating to

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Speaker 1: me is I get older, is the number of people

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Speaker 1: over one hundred, for example, is now is stunning. What

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Speaker 1: are we learning by studying the people who have successfully

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Speaker 1: lived in a healthy way well beyond one hundred years?

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Speaker 3: Of age well in what it's called the Blue Zones,

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Speaker 3: which studied the seven areas in the world where this

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Speaker 3: is very common. It is the avoidance of chronic disease,

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Speaker 3: usually by the four biggest things. One is stress management,

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Speaker 3: and they do it by having a posse and purpose

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Speaker 3: in life, and that is friends and a community. Second

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Speaker 3: is doing physical activity. Third is eating largely a much

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Speaker 3: healthier diet than the American diet. And fourth is avoiding

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Speaker 3: unforced errors such as texting while driving or something as

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Speaker 3: simple as that. And what we've learned is that it

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Speaker 3: is the tree that you talked about. It is growing

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Speaker 3: older without developing chronic disease. That is the key for

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Speaker 3: these communities, and they've done it by a posse and purpose,

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Speaker 3: physical activity, food choices and portion size, and avoiding unforced errors.

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Speaker 1: I'm very curious, you are very sophisticated research doctor. I

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Speaker 1: keep hearing about the use of metforman that it actually

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Speaker 1: has a positive effect in general, and it's currently so

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Speaker 1: inexpensive in your sense. I mean, do these kind of

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Speaker 1: things actually help at the margins as we try to

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Speaker 1: go through this kind of change.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to talk about met foreman, because there

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Speaker 3: are some side effects of met forman. If you exercise,

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Speaker 3: for example, it may inhibit that Neil Besseau who is

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Speaker 3: doing the tame trial, And we debate whether met foreman

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Speaker 3: is good or bad at this time. What metforman does

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Speaker 3: is lower your blood sugar level, and sugar is a

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Speaker 3: precursor of both feeding cancer and feeding atherosclerosis in the

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Speaker 3: diabetic world, causing your muscles to develop insulin resistance and

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Speaker 3: not use calories as efficiently. But there are many other

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Speaker 3: things we may be able to do that are relatively

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Speaker 3: inexpensive that will keep us from having as much chronic

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Speaker 3: disease for much longer. And let me give you one

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Speaker 3: that was done at the Gladstone in San Francisco where

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Speaker 3: they looked using quantum computing, so fourth degree structure of proteins,

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Speaker 3: and they said, is there any drug that has been

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Speaker 3: approved by the FDA and is now generic that blocks

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Speaker 3: the attachment of amoid and tao to brain cells. Amoid

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Speaker 3: and tao are the gunk that attaches to brain cells

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Speaker 3: that are associated with the development of Alzheimer's dementia and

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Speaker 3: are associated with inflammation of the brain that wipes out neurons. Well,

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Speaker 3: they found that a four dollars a month waterpill Vieumex

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Speaker 3: largely replaced by hydrocorrethiside and furosimito LASiS blocked it almost

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Speaker 3: totally in the computer models. They then used it in

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Speaker 3: a mouse model of Alzheimer's disease and it blocked the

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Speaker 3: mice from developing dementia. They have then looked at two

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Speaker 3: large databases one point eight and three point eight million

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Speaker 3: people and it blocks seventy and seventy two percent of

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Speaker 3: the development of all dementias compared to people who were

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Speaker 3: taking other water pills or taking no diuretic, no water

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Speaker 3: pill at all. That has now led to a randomized

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Speaker 3: control trial. So this is a four hour month waterpill.

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Speaker 3: The side effects are lowers your blood pressure. Doesn't have

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Speaker 3: serious side effects in that regard as safe as any

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Speaker 3: of the other diuretics and looks like it at least

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Speaker 3: in the early studies, prevent seventy percent and maybe more dementia.

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Speaker 3: So that's something that we're beginning to see the combination

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Speaker 3: of this technology, the quantum computing and inexpensive molecules. There's

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Speaker 3: another one in phase three and the company has promised

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Speaker 3: that it will be less than forty dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: That is what we call.

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Speaker 3: CETP cholesterol esterraise transfer protein that would transfer normally. What

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Speaker 3: CETP does is transfer LDL cholesterol into your arteries. Will

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Speaker 3: you block that and you stop coineriaortery disease and most

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Speaker 3: of the causes of stroke and a lot of causes

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Speaker 3: of dementia. And its side effect is it lowers blood

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Speaker 3: pressure too, So that's in some phase three testing. It's

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Speaker 3: a small molecule, so it's very cheap. You've seen semagutide

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Speaker 3: and zeppetite or lagovia or zepeic and munjar borrow now

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Speaker 3: wiping out obesity and probably wiping out the craving from alcohol,

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Speaker 3: maybe even from opioids. But clearly we know that it

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Speaker 3: does that for food craving and alcohol craving. Well, just

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Speaker 3: imagine if we can wipe that out and semaglutide I

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Speaker 3: understand comes off patent in about a year, so it's

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Speaker 3: going to get much cheaper and be available. It will

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Speaker 3: save about we think someplace around one sixth of the

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Speaker 3: Medicare and medicaid budget by wiping out obesity if we

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Speaker 3: did it, meaning it's two or three percent of GDP

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Speaker 3: that we will be saving in our budgets that we

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Speaker 3: could use for other things or for decreasing our debt load.

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Speaker 3: So amazing things that are happening.

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Speaker 1: I remember one center Bob Carry and I co chaired

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Speaker 1: a task force on Alzheimer's for three years that if

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Speaker 1: you can postpone Alzheimer's, the effect on both human happiness

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Speaker 1: and on the budget, and the effect on the caregivers,

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Speaker 1: because if you are a family caregiver, you're twice as

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Speaker 1: likely to have an illness as people who are not

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Speaker 1: in an Alzheimer's family. So the kind of secondary and

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Speaker 1: tertiary effects we're talking about become huge as these breakthroughs

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Speaker 1: begin to occur. And I think that if you look

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Speaker 1: back and you think, what if we had the health

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Speaker 1: structure of say, nineteen fifty, you'd have people dying younger,

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Speaker 1: you'd have people much more debilitated, you'd have a totally

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Speaker 1: different economy. And we've already profited from longer lives and

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Speaker 1: healthier lives. And now I take it from your book

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Speaker 1: and others that we are really on the verge of

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Speaker 1: a breakout that could, in the next five or ten

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Speaker 1: years dramatically change our expectations about how long we live

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Speaker 1: and about how well we live. I mean, is that

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Speaker 1: a reasonable summary.

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Speaker 3: I think that's that's exactly right. I think we're on

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Speaker 3: that step of breakthrough kind of the way I would

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Speaker 3: say the Internet was in two thousand and six to eight,

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Speaker 3: where it's getting fast enough and speedy enough that we're

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Speaker 3: going to take off, and it's almost irrepressible, meaning this

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Speaker 3: is occurring so fast.

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Speaker 2: I'll use how much.

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Speaker 3: Reading I had to do when I was in nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy eight. I had to read one article every six months.

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Speaker 3: I can't keep up now because it's one every six minutes.

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Speaker 3: That's how fast the articles are that are meaningful in

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Speaker 3: this field.

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Speaker 1: We're beginning to be during a period where we may

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Speaker 1: be able to actually grow organs for transplants in a

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Speaker 1: way that would have seemed possible thirty years ago.

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Speaker 3: So just imagine right now we're at a point where

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Speaker 3: you can, in fact insert a gene just one letter,

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Speaker 3: one base pair into a gene and you no longer

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Speaker 3: have that deficiency that enzyme, and people don't have to

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Speaker 3: suffer at all from it. So it's really remarkable the

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Speaker 3: progress that, in fact, your work early on to invest

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Speaker 3: in Aniah and invest in the National Science Foundation that

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Speaker 3: has yielded everything is much less expensive because of that.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think you have to have these examples

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Speaker 1: to explain to the average citizen why investing in basic

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Speaker 1: research over time is the most powerful single investment because

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Speaker 1: it liberates things that you couldn't have imagined and that

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Speaker 1: you can't achieve without the basic research breakthroughs. I think

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Speaker 1: it justifies almost everything that Aniah the National Science Foundation do.

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Speaker 1: I have to ask you about one big story, which

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Speaker 1: is that Altos Labs raised three billion dollars for its launch,

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Speaker 1: making it the best funded startup biotech company of all time,

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Speaker 1: and it's trying to take on the agent challenge head on.

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Speaker 1: What is your sense of those kind of large systems?

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Speaker 1: And it's going to change the economics of being a

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Speaker 1: biology professor just by the kind of salaries are now paying.

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Speaker 3: What Altos has done is they've taken some of this

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Speaker 3: animal research the fourteen areas we write about in the

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Speaker 3: Great Age Reboot book. One of their areas is this

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Speaker 3: epigenetic reprogramming. This will advance the transformation from the animal

436
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 3: models into humans. So a lot of what they're doing

437
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: is not only basic science, but is in fact the

438
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 3: translational research to speed the process of it coming to

439
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: you and me and all of society. I'm strongly in

440
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: favor of what they're doing. Let me get you the

441
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: idea of how fast this is moving. The total amount

442
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 3: invested in aging research, including the National Institute of Aging

443
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 3: was around three hundred million in two thousand and six.

444
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: This is three billion. This is ten times.

445
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 3: Alone for one firm, and the estimate is it's probably

446
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 3: closer to six billion got invested last year into aging.

447
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think what's happened is we've passed the critical

448
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: mass of believing it's possible, and it's now moving into

449
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: a commercial world, which has a capacity both to attract

450
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs who break through and who forced things to happen,

451
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: and to attract scales of resources that you could never

452
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: get through a public bureaucracy. We're a little bit like

453
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: Henry Ford and Thomas Edison and the degree to which

454
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: they just privately revolutionized everything because they went out and

455
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: did it. And I think we may begin to see

456
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: that and part of the point you make in your book,

457
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 1: which is really I think exciting, and if people can

458
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: and integrate this into their heads and realize how real

459
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: it is that over the last one hundred and twenty years,

460
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: life expectancy has actually increased by over thirty six years.

461
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: So when we project forward, we're not projecting a fantasy.

462
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: We're projecting an acceleration of a process which has actually

463
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: been underway for over a century. Can you talk about

464
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: that degree to which scientific and other breakthroughs really changed.

465
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: We've already gained thirty six years, so when you start

466
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: talking about gaining the next thirty or forty or fifty years,

467
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: it's not science fiction. It is science progress. And somehow

468
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: we have to get that across to people.

469
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. So you're right.

470
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: Obviously the Human Genome Project did a great thing. But

471
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: do you know what Elvis's major contribution to.

472
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: The world was.

473
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: I'll take your word for what.

474
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: He actually got vaccinated against polio on TV when he

475
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: went into the army. And when he went into the army,

476
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: he got vaccinated live on ABC, NBCCBS, And at that time,

477
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 3: zero point three percent of Americans had gotten vaccinated, less

478
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 3: than one percent. Within two years of him getting vaccinated,

479
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: those eligible went up to eighty three percent. He saved

480
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: America just in treatment of folio over one hundred billion

481
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: a year. So Elvis's largest contribution through his music was

482
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 3: in fact a health change, And so the science is

483
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: getting there, and we have to get people to understand

484
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: what this will do, just like Elvis did with a

485
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 3: folio vaccine.

486
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: That is a perfect example of what we're talking about

487
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: and of what our challenge is, because we have to

488
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: somehow find a way for everyday folks to realize that

489
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: they're about to benefit from changes of such extraordinary magnitude

490
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: that it's going to affect their personal lives, it's going

491
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: to affect their economy, it's going to affect the structure

492
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: of their government in ways that increase the potential for

493
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: human happiness beyond anything we've ever dreamed of.

494
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: And that's the key point. This is an opportunity. When

495
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 3: you say people you're going to live longer, it isn't

496
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: extending the end years. It's extending your most productive, most

497
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: fun years, if you will. So it is extending those

498
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 3: productive years from instead of being forty to sixty or

499
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: forty to seventy, even forty to eighty, it's going to

500
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: be forty two, one hundred, So you're going to get

501
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: to extend those happy years You're right, those most productive years.

502
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: I'm very curious, because we've known each other so long,

503
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: how has all of this knowledge and research affected you

504
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: in terms of your own life.

505
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: I used to exercise a great deal.

506
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: I captained the US team and squashing the Pan American

507
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: Games in nineteen eighty three.

508
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: I think so.

509
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 3: I used to be physically active, but I never did

510
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: stress management. I didn't eat the right foods, And in fact,

511
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,959
Speaker 3: I've adopted gradually and progressively as I've seen the data

512
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 3: almost all of the things. I still have too much stress,

513
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 3: and I still sometimes sacrifice sleep for the rest of life.

514
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: But in general, I've said I want to have no

515
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: structural damage in my body, to keep structural damage out

516
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 3: of my body as long as possible, so that when

517
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: the reboot comes, when we learn what it is to

518
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: take ourselves back, I'm going to be available and going

519
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: to not have so much structural damage. That is, to

520
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: have a little bit of structural damage, so I can

521
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: reboot back to be a younger tree, if you will,

522
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: and grow old without the branches falling off. As your

523
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: great analogy is, so, if you will, yes, do I

524
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 3: call people every Sunday to increase my posse and nurture.

525
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: It.

526
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 3: Yes, to have a purpose in life, Thank you. It

527
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 3: is teaching longevity others do. I do deep breathing and

528
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 3: double breathing and do inspiratory resistance training for my diaphragm.

529
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: Never did that because I didn't know about it. Now

530
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: I do it do.

531
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: I avoid red meat and process red meat and fried

532
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: food and added sugers, added syrups and simple carbjet. So

533
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 3: I do all of the darn things, plus a lot

534
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: of simple little ones, one of which is speed of

535
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 3: processing games. It's been shown to decrease dementia. So just

536
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: thirty hours and ten years decreases dementia by over thirty

537
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: five percent. So there's some simple things all of us

538
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 3: can do, and I've adopted almost all of them because

539
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: the data are there.

540
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: I want to thank you. I think the work you

541
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: are doing and the conversations we've had now for almost

542
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: a lifetime, we really are at the edge, and you

543
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: are one of the pioneers helping us get there. And

544
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: your book, The Great Age Reboot, Cracking the Longevity Code

545
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: for a Younger Tomorrow, I think should be mandatory reading

546
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: for every citizen and certainly for every political leader to

547
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: understand how exciting and positive the future is going to be,

548
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 1: and to break through all of the gloom and doom

549
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: and recognize that in fact, for most people, it's going

550
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 1: to be a dramatically better world with dramatically more opportunities.

551
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: And you're both one of the people creating it and

552
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: one of the people explaining it. And Michael, that makes

553
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: you a real national treasure.

554
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. Let me return the favor.

555
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: You are one of my heroes for getting the budget balance,

556
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: So thank you for doing that.

557
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: We need you again.

558
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: Well we're going to go back into it one more time,

559
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: I think, and I think we'll probably get it balanced

560
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: in the next decade. But I really appreciate you spending

561
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: the time with us today.

562
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, my privilege.

563
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest doctor Michael Roysen. You can

564
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: get a link to buy his book, The Great Age

565
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 1: Reboot on our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newsworld

566
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: is produced by Gingers three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive

567
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The

568
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special

569
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingerish three to sixty. If

570
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple

571
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: Podcasts and both rate us with five stars and give

572
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's all about.

573
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consign up for my three

574
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: free weekly columns at gingrishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter.

575
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is news World