WEBVTT - Harm w/ Steven Weber

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<v Speaker 1>Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

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<v Speaker 2>We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the

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<v Speaker 2>vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.

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<v Speaker 1>Done, Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. My name

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<v Speaker 1>is Lisa Traeger and my name is Kara Klank. You

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<v Speaker 1>guys know what we do here. We talk about an

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<v Speaker 1>episode of SVU the True crimits based on and we

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<v Speaker 1>interview an amazing guest from the episode.

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<v Speaker 3>But first we chitchat a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, I am currently experiencing my second bout

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<v Speaker 1>of COVID. Yay, But I am honestly relieved that it's

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<v Speaker 1>happening now before we go back out on the road again,

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<v Speaker 1>because then I'll be like super immune and I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>really missing anything super important that I had to cancel

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<v Speaker 1>this week.

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<v Speaker 3>That's kind of good, that's kind of it.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of our friends had to cancel his Halloween

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<v Speaker 2>party he got COVID. And my other friend yesterday said

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<v Speaker 2>it's about to be another wave, and I wonder.

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<v Speaker 1>If I'm one of the first surfers on the wave.

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<v Speaker 1>Man and I didn't get to go trigger treating with

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<v Speaker 1>my kids. But I did get to take them out

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<v Speaker 1>like the whole weekend in to a lot of Halloween stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I just didn't get to take them trigger treating, which

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<v Speaker 1>Jared sent me some videos and it was cute. They

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<v Speaker 1>are negative, so hopefully they'll stay negative because they just

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<v Speaker 1>got vaccinated and I'm hoping that it's like more strong

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<v Speaker 1>in them or something.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'm staying away from them.

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<v Speaker 1>But speaking of our tour, I will be COVID free

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<v Speaker 1>and ready to embrace all of you. And this episode

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<v Speaker 1>comes out on the fifteenth of November, which means tonight

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<v Speaker 1>we will be in Indianapolis. Don't miss us Indy and

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<v Speaker 1>tomorrow night in the sixteenth and Columbus, the seventeenth in Cleveland,

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<v Speaker 1>the eighteenth in Detroit. The nineteenth will be in Detroit

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<v Speaker 1>doing stand up. Come see us at both, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the twentieth will be in Madison doing our podcast, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the twenty first. I believe you can catch Lisa

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<v Speaker 1>in Madison doing stand up.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the twenty second, but they refuse to put

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<v Speaker 2>it on their website, so I don't know what's happening.

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<v Speaker 2>So TBD on that because you can't buy it. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think you can even buy tickets to that, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know why they're doing this to me, but

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<v Speaker 2>it is fine. But also in terms of Halloween, it

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<v Speaker 2>seemed like, I guess people did stuff last year, but

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<v Speaker 2>it really seemed huge this year, like everyone's stories, the

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<v Speaker 2>blocks like the people trigger treated on were packed, everyone's

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<v Speaker 2>costumes and then somewhat Dave Mazzoni posts like the celebrities

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<v Speaker 2>spent money this year.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, heiny Kloom's party was back in effact after two

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<v Speaker 1>years off. I think it's just like the covidun Ironically,

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<v Speaker 1>for me, it was like a COVID bounce back Halloween,

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<v Speaker 1>and I feel like everybody was really doing it up.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm just like fun Halloween positive.

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite one that I saw I didn't see in person, sadly,

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<v Speaker 2>I only saw it online, but a group of people

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<v Speaker 2>dressed up like paparazzi, and then they were running around

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<v Speaker 2>the city like West Village, going Whinny the Pooh, Whinny

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<v Speaker 2>the Poo, and then.

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<v Speaker 1>Like asking questions and are you wearing whinny well?

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<v Speaker 2>And someone said that there was a Patrick and SpongeBob

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<v Speaker 2>like covering their eyes and like pretending to get away

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<v Speaker 2>from the paparazzi and I saw Jesus Christ once, so

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<v Speaker 2>that I think that was like, it's cool to see

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<v Speaker 2>people be so clever, Like I saw a group of

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<v Speaker 2>people be car car washed and they were just like

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<v Speaker 2>spinning around, Like I just love this holiday. I love

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<v Speaker 2>seeing everyone's creativity. I was just a pumpkin this year,

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<v Speaker 2>a casual, just a casual night at the cellar.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to one party with Jared and we just

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<v Speaker 1>wore our peanut butter and jelly costumes from last year

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<v Speaker 1>because we just did not get it together. Normally, I

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<v Speaker 1>love to be something that people are talking about, Like

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<v Speaker 1>last year, Jared and I went as the people from

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<v Speaker 1>Lula Row documentary. The year before I went as one

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<v Speaker 1>of the people from the Vow docuseries. So I really

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<v Speaker 1>do try to like be on the pulse. But this

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<v Speaker 1>year I just couldn't get it together. And I felt

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<v Speaker 1>like all anyone was talking about was Kanye and I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, I just I can't, I can't think of

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<v Speaker 1>I loved Benny Drama. Benito Skinner and his friends were

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<v Speaker 1>like the Britney Spears wedding photo that was so great.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a genius of our time. And then also him

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<v Speaker 2>and his boyfriend were Anamorphs.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know that book series? No? Is that how

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<v Speaker 1>you say it? Casey Anamorphs?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and they were like a lizard man and a

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<v Speaker 2>horse girl and they did full shoots and like pose,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, just I love it. I love it. I'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to go all out, but like Kara said, this

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<v Speaker 2>was not the year, and I was happy to be

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<v Speaker 2>a pumpkin.

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<v Speaker 1>And you can tell the people that are really into

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<v Speaker 1>it because they have multiple costumes, like Shay Coule did

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<v Speaker 1>that hilarious Patrick thing one night where she was Patrick

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<v Speaker 1>Starr from SpongeBob in drag, which was hilarious, and then

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<v Speaker 1>she was this amazing yellow Mighty morphin Power Ranger Halloween.

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<v Speaker 1>So people that have like two amazing costs. Well, and

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<v Speaker 1>she was the scream Mask last night, Yes she did.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw that too, Like she was a coarse drag.

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<v Speaker 3>Queens are gonna do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And I love seeing all the little kids and what

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<v Speaker 1>they ask for.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the girls I follow on socials from my

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<v Speaker 2>salondes her son asked to be Halloween decorations, which I

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<v Speaker 2>think is so cute.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, of course, this is so funny because this

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<v Speaker 1>episode's coming out mid November. Everyone's gonna be like, why

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<v Speaker 1>are you guys talking about Halloween? But we are in

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<v Speaker 1>the time machine as usual. By the time you listen

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<v Speaker 1>to this, my COVID will be long gone, Thank fucking god.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I also wanted to say I did see Moona again,

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<v Speaker 2>and one of our listeners was there and she said

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<v Speaker 2>that she found out about the concert from me on

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It was me.

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<v Speaker 2>She didn't know that they were going to be in

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<v Speaker 2>La and then so I was so glad and the

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<v Speaker 2>will turn small.

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<v Speaker 3>So I feel like I ran into a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of celebs were there, Chris since Stewart, Haley Keoko.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it was a star studded lesbian affair. And

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<v Speaker 2>say Muna posted they'd be They're going to be opening

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<v Speaker 2>for Taylor Swift for a few shows. And so one

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<v Speaker 2>of the Muna girls their girlfriend dresses Heather not Heather Barlow,

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<v Speaker 2>Lisa Barlow, Lisa Barlow, Lisa Barlow.

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<v Speaker 1>There were a lot of Renas this year too. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you see that was on eminem Renna. Yeah, there were

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<v Speaker 1>so many Rennas also, Taylor Swift. I just read and

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<v Speaker 1>I know this is again we're in the time machine.

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<v Speaker 1>This is late, but has ten of the top ten

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<v Speaker 1>on the Billboard Hot one hundred. The top ten are

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<v Speaker 1>her songs, and it's the first. I think it's like

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<v Speaker 1>the first time in history a man has not been

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<v Speaker 1>in the top ten.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, she kicked everybody's ass out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm happy for Taylor. She's obviously skilled, she obviously

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<v Speaker 2>a songwriter. But to me, and I've seen her in concert,

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<v Speaker 2>I get the album, I do it, I'm in it.

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<v Speaker 1>She's average.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Like I'm with Theretha Franklin, where it's like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>her gowns are nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Like beautiful gowns, beautiful gowns. I mean it's just like.

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<v Speaker 2>The voice is whatever, the dances what you know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>just kind.

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<v Speaker 1>Of whatever but really cool and it's all petty. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think that's what so many people like because

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<v Speaker 1>they're like, I'm whatever too, That's what it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I think it was Sandra burnher and Watch What

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<v Speaker 2>Happens Live, who is just what did she say about Taylor?

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<v Speaker 2>Where it's like she needs to go live a life

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<v Speaker 2>so she actually has things to write about, Like how

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<v Speaker 2>is she writing all of these songs?

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<v Speaker 1>She doesn't do anything, and that's why Jaren used to

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<v Speaker 1>have a whole joke about that, how Taylor Swift is

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<v Speaker 1>like that twenty three year old girl who's like not

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<v Speaker 1>had any experiences complaining to you about like how Starbucks

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<v Speaker 1>didn't make their coffee the right way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly what she's like, where it's like leave

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<v Speaker 2>me alone the press, and then it's like intricate little

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<v Speaker 2>clues within all the songs that have to do with

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<v Speaker 2>Kim Kardashi, you know, like it's all about her.

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<v Speaker 1>Like she wants relief from the strap.

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<v Speaker 2>But then everything is like a little puzzle of like

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<v Speaker 2>pettiness with these little arguments, and it's like, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe it's your fault. Maybe Taylor needs to come on enemies. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>I do want her to listen to this podcast. And

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<v Speaker 2>now I'm spiraling that I've called her average on this

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<v Speaker 2>show because she loves us views, she loves true crime.

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<v Speaker 2>I obviously am obsessed, but it is like, all right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I get all the ten songs.

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<v Speaker 1>Cool. Maybe it's because everyone thought she was an arian princess.

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<v Speaker 1>I only brought it up because I thought it was

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<v Speaker 1>cool she kicked all the men off.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought's why I brought it up. Yeah, but like

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<v Speaker 2>why hasn't Gaga done that? Like I just don't get it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just confused. Why is it these fans? Because I

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<v Speaker 2>know someone that like for their comedy albums, they at

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<v Speaker 2>all times have their YouTube and albums playing on mute

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<v Speaker 2>in the background of their computer at all times, so

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<v Speaker 2>then there's residuals and you get views. So I know

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<v Speaker 2>people that do all that stuff, and maybe these fans

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<v Speaker 2>are doing it. I'm just confused how she's overpowered everyone

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<v Speaker 2>one without being more talented than everyone, right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's like how we know people in comedy who

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<v Speaker 1>have just figured out the formula? Do you know what

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<v Speaker 1>I mean? It can be a formula. She's figured out

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<v Speaker 1>the formula, and what is that? Well, the well, first

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<v Speaker 1>of all, she has mass appeal. Gaga is very very talented.

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't know housewives in Minnesota or what or

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<v Speaker 1>like Iowa might not be like be a little bit like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>she's a little too much for me. But Taylor is

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<v Speaker 1>like perfectly palatable for everyone. Adult, yes, children, little kids,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, teens. Taylor's got the whole thing covered, yeah, country, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>all of it. It's sort of like how Adele is

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<v Speaker 1>a huge superstar, hugely famous, but her music appeals to it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean a hugely talented Excuse me, is what I

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<v Speaker 1>meant to say. But like, her music just appeals to

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<v Speaker 1>so many different people, So I think that's It's like

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<v Speaker 1>Drake has hit nine out of the top ten I

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<v Speaker 1>was reading in this article, out of the top ten,

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<v Speaker 1>but but Justin Bieber kept a song in the top

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<v Speaker 1>ten that prevented him from getting this whole full record

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<v Speaker 1>like what Taylor has, and like what with Drake. It's like,

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<v Speaker 1>my mom's not listening to Drake, but my mom would

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<v Speaker 1>probably would listen to Adele or probably Taylor Swift. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's yeah now, and we talk about how she's a badass,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like I do like that she you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Scooter Braun tried to fuck her and she was like,

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<v Speaker 2>not today, bitch, I'm gonna You're not gonna make a

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<v Speaker 2>dime off of me.

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<v Speaker 1>And I do like that.

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<v Speaker 2>But I always say about her, she's like, when you're

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<v Speaker 2>a perpetual, it's the woman who cried wolf when everything's

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<v Speaker 2>an issue. When there really is this big thing with

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<v Speaker 2>Scooter Braun, everyone's already annoyed with you, you know, what

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, but I've seen her in I mean, she

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<v Speaker 2>gets my money, you know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I also and I love to

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<v Speaker 1>have her on the pod, love to talk about her

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<v Speaker 1>cat named Olivia Benson.

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<v Speaker 2>And what also bothered me is like in her documentary,

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<v Speaker 2>she it was just seems stage to me. It's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>now you're gonna say who you vote for, Like now

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna fucking be into gay people. Like she is

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<v Speaker 2>so fucked to me because of that, Like I don't

0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.640
<v Speaker 2>think Trump would have won if Taylor Swift fucking said

0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:06.280
<v Speaker 2>fuck him.

0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:08.720
<v Speaker 3>I really don't like when she said she was voting

0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:09.040
<v Speaker 3>and stuff.

0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.959
<v Speaker 2>I think it was like tens of thousands of people

0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.319
<v Speaker 2>registered to vote because of her, you know, but it

0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.199
<v Speaker 2>was just too late. Like it's just you know, she's

0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.560
<v Speaker 2>she's not ahead of the curve, she's always behind it,

0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.600
<v Speaker 2>I think where it's like she wasn't political in any

0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.280
<v Speaker 2>way until it was like you're fucked if you're not,

0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.280
<v Speaker 2>like you have to say he's bad. But it was

0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.640
<v Speaker 2>too late, bitch, the election already happened, you know, Like yeah,

0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:32.320
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of like that.

0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 1>It's like you could have been pro gay people. How

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.680
<v Speaker 1>do you be pro like you could have had gay

0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.360
<v Speaker 1>people's backs over a decade ago, but you waited until

0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.800
<v Speaker 1>it was like, oh, now I'm gonna till drag Race

0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:46.839
<v Speaker 1>won nine Emmys and now you're gonna be like.

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 2>I support gay people. It's just it's kind of it's

0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:51.560
<v Speaker 2>funny to me. And that's the thing.

0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.440
<v Speaker 1>It's like there's a little bit of I guess they're

0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.440
<v Speaker 1>all phony and bad, but then people aren't, Like she

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.480
<v Speaker 1>did the doctorate at the NYU, and everyone's like, you're

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.760
<v Speaker 1>not a doctor, And it's like celebrities always do this,

0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.839
<v Speaker 1>Like why are you mad that she's doing it? Like

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 1>somebody's always do the speeches, So it's weird. There's something

0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.000
<v Speaker 1>in her that really you're either fully obsessed, like I've

0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 1>never seen people obsessed over a person before, or it's like,

0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.199
<v Speaker 1>but I love to hate or hate to love her,

0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not a full time thing for me. You're right

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.320
<v Speaker 1>in the middle, baby, I just I don't even know

0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.240
<v Speaker 1>if it's in the middle, but it's just And I

0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.200
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you saw like this latest video she

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 1>fully copied like a young musician's video, like frame for frame.

0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.160
<v Speaker 1>I watched both of them side by side.

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:36.760
<v Speaker 2>Wait, which video the newest one antihroo Yeah, where it's

0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:40.120
<v Speaker 2>like two of them, Like this younger musician posted her

0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:43.000
<v Speaker 2>video and it is like truly almost.

0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 1>From Okay, we got to wrap it up so I

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.960
<v Speaker 1>can go watch this. I love watching side by side

0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 1>copycat shit, Wait, did I want to talk about the

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.320
<v Speaker 1>Iowa thing? Like? I don't even know? I mean, we

0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:54.720
<v Speaker 1>have to wrap it up because we got to get

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:56.600
<v Speaker 1>into our episode. We got a good one today. But

0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Lisa did send me, and a lot of you have

0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 1>sent me, actually sent us through our Instagram, which I

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.240
<v Speaker 1>mostly checked this article about this guy in Iowa who

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 1>died like nine years ago, and his daughter is coming

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 1>forward saying he was a serial killer and she helped

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 1>him bury all these bodies.

0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:14.240
<v Speaker 3>Wild.

0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be like, why didn't you come over?

0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, she was obviously scared. How long has this

0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:20.040
<v Speaker 2>guy been dead for?

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 1>That's what I was saying. I want to eat to

0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.439
<v Speaker 1>fifty people he's killed, yeah, like and mostly sex workers,

0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.040
<v Speaker 1>and he she was obviously extremely scared, and she said

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:31.679
<v Speaker 1>her and her siblings were all forced to do it.

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.079
<v Speaker 1>But then it's like he did die in twenty thirteen,

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's twenty twenty two. So I am like wondering

0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.760
<v Speaker 1>where the you know, where the confession was a few

0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.680
<v Speaker 1>years ago. But I know, well, we'll see, We'll definitely see.

0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, we'll see that chorus because this is definitely

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 1>going to get made into a Netflix show.

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but also when, yeah, when anything happens now too,

0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, can this please be an SVO Why isn't

0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.960
<v Speaker 2>this an SVIO? Like now I'm at this place?

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.400
<v Speaker 3>They did they dig up the bodies though, Like are

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:03.080
<v Speaker 3>the bodies there?

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Not that I know of? I mean maybe because that

0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 1>might be maybe it'll be not taking so long?

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Why is that taking so long?

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Come on?

0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.080
<v Speaker 3>This wasn't people? People doesn't?

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, did you watch the first episode of

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 2>White Lotus?

0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 3>Not yet?

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.880
<v Speaker 1>Not yet.

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 3>Now I'm gonna have plenty of time.

0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.680
<v Speaker 1>My schedule has been cleared from COVID, so maybe i'll

0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 1>go watch it right now.

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>I was like, jam the fucking introthy, I mean, our girl,

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.880
<v Speaker 2>Meghan Faihie slays, She's so good.

0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.680
<v Speaker 1>It's so good. Okay, great, I'm gonna go watch it.

0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.200
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's get let's get going with it. Don't

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:38.880
<v Speaker 1>skip the intro. Watch the fucking credits. I know, oh,

0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 1>I always do. I love the song, but I love

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 1>the song. Okay, good is it the same song? I

0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.000
<v Speaker 1>don't remember last song, but it's really cool. Oh my god,

0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the song from the first one was like haunting. Yeah.

0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I was like, and I order oh,

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 1>I ordered sushi. I mean it was like a big

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:56.240
<v Speaker 1>event in my heart. Were having a time. I saw

0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>on Instagram it looked like really fun, I having COVID. Okay, helloney,

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>sorry to be a bummer, but this is a great episode.

0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.640
<v Speaker 3>Guys, stay fucking tuned.

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>And give it up for Kara, you know, push them

0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:11.120
<v Speaker 1>through COVID to do this.

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 3>I love to push through here.

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I am okay.

0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 3>Today is the day for some harm.

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>It is season nine, episode five, and Tamaratuni is the thumbnail,

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 1>so you know this is gonna be a good episode.

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.720
<v Speaker 3>It starts out with like a young one.

0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>I think I know exactly where she is in Central Park,

0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Like she's it's sort of I don't know, I can't

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 1>even describe what area it is. But she's like walking

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.280
<v Speaker 1>down these stairs at night. She's looking all around. It

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.560
<v Speaker 1>looks very spooky. She looks scared. She has a reason

0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>to be scared because out of nowhere, a masked man

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.040
<v Speaker 1>comes flying out, covers her mouth, pins her up against

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>a wall, rips her shirt and pulls her underwear off,

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.680
<v Speaker 1>and she screams for help, and then the guy just

0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.080
<v Speaker 1>takes a knife out and stabs her. He takes her

0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.400
<v Speaker 1>purse and runs and she's just like left lying. And

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.680
<v Speaker 1>then there's like really really upsetting time laps footage. This

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 1>is like what your nightmare is if you get attacked,

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.040
<v Speaker 1>is that you're just gonna be there with no help

0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:08.840
<v Speaker 1>for a long time.

0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 3>And that is what happens. They like time lapse to

0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 3>the morning and.

0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Then like you see people like quickly running by, blah

0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 1>blah blah, and then you see like the next thing

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 1>you see is Tamratuni aka Melinda Warner bent over the body,

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of assessing the situation. Finn shows up at the

0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 1>scene to meet his partner Chester Lake. I don't know

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.960
<v Speaker 1>if we've talked about him enough, Lisa, what's your feeling

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.880
<v Speaker 1>on Lake. I've never loved him. I know some of

0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 1>our listeners are horny for him. Yeah, I wouldn't say love.

0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't love, but I don't hate. He's not a

0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:45.400
<v Speaker 1>who's the one I hate the curly hair bitch. Yeah,

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>like Beck, I hate you know what I mean. Chester.

0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.520
<v Speaker 2>It's just like I don't think he'll be here for long.

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.240
<v Speaker 2>You don't really spark joy and and I don't like that.

0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 1>He's like I never sleep. My family built the whole city.

0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.360
<v Speaker 1>I know every train stop, every boat, every build, and

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 1>it's like take a nap, Like I don't. I don't

0:17:02.960 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 1>like all.

0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>These special powers he has, but I don't hate him.

0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 2>And he is passionate about his.

0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Work obviously, Yeah, for some reason, like his deadpan like delivery,

0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, it's just like doesn't do it for it.

0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.000
<v Speaker 1>I had a hard time latching onto him. Yeah, and

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.200
<v Speaker 1>even its signature when he's like laying on the bed

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.360
<v Speaker 1>and he's like what what would I do? Like he's annoying.

0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 1>He's annoying.

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:24.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would hate to work with him.

0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 1>He would be someone backstage doing breathing exercises, drinking tea

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 1>with honey, and it's like I don't want you around me. Ben.

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 1>It's like, you know, Finn can handle it because he's

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.639
<v Speaker 1>been with Munch for so long and he's like I

0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.080
<v Speaker 1>can handle a little bit of annoyance, Like so Finn

0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.440
<v Speaker 1>probably like, lets it roll water off a duck's back

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Jinx Monsoon style.

0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 3>But you know, I feel like, so now.

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.480
<v Speaker 1>We've we're getting all the exposition, white female, mid twenties.

0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:49.560
<v Speaker 3>They're running a rape kit.

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.400
<v Speaker 1>They found her library card and her name is Kate Simes.

0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Warner then explains the sad part that this woman bled

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>out really slowly, and Lake is like, wow, she could

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.600
<v Speaker 1>have been saved, and it's like, yeah, well there's kind

0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.360
<v Speaker 1>of a reason why you're not supposed to walk alone

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.679
<v Speaker 1>in Central Park. I'm not victim blaming, I'm not, but

0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 1>don't walk alone in Central Park if you live in

0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:08.160
<v Speaker 1>New York.

0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.399
<v Speaker 2>No, this is a good reminder since say I am

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.440
<v Speaker 2>in New York while we're talking about this, and who

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.040
<v Speaker 2>knows what would have happened tonight.

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:18.240
<v Speaker 3>But now I won't go to the park.

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Lake goes to maybe touch her, and Warner's like

0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>back up and shows that she has this lesion on

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 1>her arm and she'll let us know what it is

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.439
<v Speaker 1>once she figures out what the hell it is.

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 3>And then we're at the credits.

0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 2>And the lesion looks wild where it's like it would

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:36.879
<v Speaker 2>like it could be Heroin, but they would know right

0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 2>away if it was so it's not so, then it's like, Okay,

0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:40.639
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck is it?

0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.399
<v Speaker 1>And it was like it was it was weird.

0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 3>It was weird, not great, not a great looking lesion.

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 1>So then at the morgue, Benson and Stabler are with

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.840
<v Speaker 1>the victim's mother to ida the body. She is obviously

0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>very upset, saying her daughter knew not to be in

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.639
<v Speaker 1>the park late at night. She gives her a photo

0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of Kate, and Kate has like long blonde hair and

0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:01.960
<v Speaker 1>looks absolutely nothing like the woman that we just saw

0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.600
<v Speaker 1>get stabbed in the park and lives like wow, that's

0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.159
<v Speaker 1>a pretty drastic like change, was like someone on her

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.160
<v Speaker 1>ass or what's going on? And then she's like Jackie

0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Solomon one of her students, she was a college counselor

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:13.600
<v Speaker 1>at the Heller School.

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 3>Kate was so they said Jackie's.

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.199
<v Speaker 1>Dad made a scene and all about attack Kate, and

0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.959
<v Speaker 1>they started getting hang up calls and stablers like Walt,

0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 1>what did she what did she do? Like, what's the

0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.280
<v Speaker 1>situation with this uh, with this student? And then we

0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 1>got to one of the wildest music videos we've seen

0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:36.320
<v Speaker 1>on lainer SVU, a music video for the song Come

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.120
<v Speaker 1>On Mister Terrorist, which is a bunch of white girls

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.200
<v Speaker 1>in a rock band called seventy two Virgins, and they're

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 1>singing this like very offensive song about you know, terrorists.

0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:48.959
<v Speaker 3>Like there is a pussy ryot.

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, it's they're definitely trying to be like high

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.199
<v Speaker 1>school pussy riot and Finn and Lake are watching it

0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>in the office of the headmistress at the Heller School

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.160
<v Speaker 1>when we pull out, and she's in a tough position

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.240
<v Speaker 1>because even though the song is offensive, Jackie the girl

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.879
<v Speaker 1>did lose an aunt on nine to eleven, so I

0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.639
<v Speaker 1>guess they decided like not to punish her when they

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.199
<v Speaker 1>found out that she was did this music video. But

0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:17.200
<v Speaker 1>Kate Simes found it so offensive that she wrote letters

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:21.160
<v Speaker 1>to all the colleges that Jackie applied to. That's going

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.720
<v Speaker 1>that's taken the extra step to be you know, I

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.359
<v Speaker 1>really hate Ricky Gervais, but I recently saw a quote

0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.439
<v Speaker 1>of his and it was like, how arrogant to think

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.359
<v Speaker 1>you're going to go through life without hearing anything that

0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>you don't like or that's not offensive to you. It's like,

0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.240
<v Speaker 1>so this girl doesn't get to go to college because

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.560
<v Speaker 1>as a teenager she decided to make a I guess

0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 1>racist videos do suck.

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:46.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't know what my point is.

0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.600
<v Speaker 2>But to write to colleges is like aren't you young?

0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, but then we do go meet the girl and

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:57.119
<v Speaker 1>she's a lot. So now we're at the Solomon household

0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.159
<v Speaker 1>and the dad is like a full cartoon character of

0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>a New York person, Like he's just like, you know,

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.280
<v Speaker 1>how much money I donated at school, Like he's really

0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>like New Yorky. And then Jackie is like, what about

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 1>my free speech? That bitch tried to tank my college applications,

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.720
<v Speaker 1>so like, you know, you're getting some entitlement. It's giving entitlement,

0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 1>it's giving young prep school girl.

0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 3>The dad is like.

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Shut up, Jackie shouldn't have made that video in the

0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.359
<v Speaker 1>first place. So he's definitely like thinks his daughter's like

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>a dumb bitch, but also is like, you know, this

0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.479
<v Speaker 1>woman shouldn't have meddled in her life and calling all

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:39.040
<v Speaker 1>these colleges, and the Jackie's like the Kuran says men

0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.240
<v Speaker 1>can abuse women physically and berbally and Finn's like, yeah,

0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.439
<v Speaker 1>there's also like so much garbage in the Bible, like

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 1>have you read it.

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 3>And then the.

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:48.959
<v Speaker 1>Dad's like, we had to take classes at the New

0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 1>York Tolerance Centa.

0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 3>Like everything is so funny to me in this scene.

0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.040
<v Speaker 2>And Jay, you even spelled it for all of us,

0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.880
<v Speaker 2>so everyone knows Kara spelled New York New And then

0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 2>why a w K hollows d A h l E

0:22:06.080 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 2>r A ncee.

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:11.199
<v Speaker 1>But why aren't they read underlined? You clicked ignored, didn't you.

0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:13.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know whether or not I

0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:18.120
<v Speaker 1>never clicked the door. That's a great question. I think

0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Google Docs knows when I'm trying to do an affected

0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 1>accent in my writing, so they allow it. So Jackie

0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>like says to the dad, I told you threatening missus

0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Simes was a bad idea, and so and the dad's

0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:32.280
<v Speaker 1>like half a million bucks to get into the Ivy League.

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:33.000
<v Speaker 3>You'd be mad too.

0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.240
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, wow, this is like Operation Varsity Blues

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 1>over here. This man is like trying really hard to

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.720
<v Speaker 1>get his daughter into It's like, wow, you could just

0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:40.720
<v Speaker 1>study and do well.

0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:43.919
<v Speaker 2>It's weird that you went to Varsity Blues and not

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the scandal with Becky from Full House. That's what it is.

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 2>It's called Operation Varsity blues. Oh, I thought of the

0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 2>James Vanderbek movie and I.

0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Was no, no, no, nothing to do. You're right, you're right.

0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:01.560
<v Speaker 1>But that's what they named the operation. No, I know,

0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.639
<v Speaker 1>it's very felicity Huffman. It's very ampt Becky, like I

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.080
<v Speaker 1>think they were trashed in Texas playing football.

0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, what are you talking about?

0:23:10.040 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 1>No, yeah, it is we I don't really know why

0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.199
<v Speaker 1>they call it that, why they called the operation that,

0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 1>because it's like, that isn't what operation. I'm on the

0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:25.880
<v Speaker 1>rowing team, Like that's the best part operation rowing team photoshop.

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, So basically they're admitting that they hassled Kate

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Simes a little bit. But Jackie's like, my dad doesn't

0:23:33.400 --> 0:23:35.040
<v Speaker 1>have the balls to kill anyone, and the dad's like,

0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 1>she's got a point, I don't. And yeah, so he's like,

0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:41.680
<v Speaker 1>call the tolerance center. I've got an e mom, a

0:23:41.760 --> 0:23:44.040
<v Speaker 1>rabbi at, a priest who can vouch for my whereabouts.

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 1>But the thing is, it's like she was murdered at midnight.

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Were you at tolerance class at midnight? But whatever, you know,

0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 1>I love to find the holes. So then Finn obviously

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.160
<v Speaker 1>gets the warners got something call and they head over

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:58.879
<v Speaker 1>to Warner's lab to find out that the lesion is

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 1>cutaneous dishmaniasis, which is essentially like a parasite and is

0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.160
<v Speaker 1>carried by the female sandfly. So in the whole country

0:24:07.480 --> 0:24:09.840
<v Speaker 1>of the US, there's only like fifty cases a year,

0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:13.120
<v Speaker 1>and they're mostly contracted abroad. The incubation periods like three

0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>to four weeks. So she bets that Kate was out

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:17.399
<v Speaker 1>of the country sometime in the last month, and the

0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:21.439
<v Speaker 1>highest incidence of this parasite is with people traveling to

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:25.399
<v Speaker 1>and from the Middle East. So they start digging into

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:29.280
<v Speaker 1>some account forensic accounting and like you know, checking out

0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>her cards and everything. No flight's on her card, but

0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.400
<v Speaker 1>a big withdrawal from her savings three weeks ago. Munch

0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:38.840
<v Speaker 1>digs up some footage from the port authority that shows

0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Kate at JFK going through the international terminal again, long

0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:44.359
<v Speaker 1>blonde hair, looking nothing like the girl we saw get murdered.

0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:47.199
<v Speaker 1>And then Stabler, of course, is like, I got a

0:24:47.200 --> 0:24:49.320
<v Speaker 1>friend at the Joint Terrorism Task Force who can help

0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 1>me out, Like, so we go to him because like,

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:53.399
<v Speaker 1>basically they find her at the terminal, but they're like,

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:55.400
<v Speaker 1>where was she going? So the Joint Task Force guys,

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>like she was going JFK to Istanbul and it was

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:00.239
<v Speaker 1>hard to spot her in the footage in we are

0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 1>but Kre Turkey because she had cut and dyed her hair.

0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:07.600
<v Speaker 1>And then this guy magically finds these photos of Kate

0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:10.080
<v Speaker 1>crossing over the border into Iraq, even though she has

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:13.720
<v Speaker 1>full like face covering and head covering. Like, so, I

0:25:13.760 --> 0:25:16.119
<v Speaker 1>don't know how they just found her, but apparently a

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:18.080
<v Speaker 1>twenty something white woman with no ties to the Arab

0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:21.040
<v Speaker 1>community didn't set off any alarm bells. But now they're curious, like,

0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 1>why the hell was she in Iraq? So, no, that

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:28.119
<v Speaker 1>seems more curious. Yeah, that seems strange. Yeah, it's like

0:25:28.119 --> 0:25:30.880
<v Speaker 1>if you have family or you married, you married in Iraqi,

0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:32.720
<v Speaker 1>that makes like a lot more sense, Like who is

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 1>this woman? So they go in, they talk to the

0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:37.640
<v Speaker 1>mom again and she's like, I have no idea why

0:25:37.680 --> 0:25:39.560
<v Speaker 1>she would be in the Middle East. She told me

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 1>she was doing a habitat for humanity situation in New Orleans.

0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:47.360
<v Speaker 1>And she's like, well, Kate did study Arabic in college.

0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:49.640
<v Speaker 1>And they're like, oh, maybe she got recruited by the government.

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:52.360
<v Speaker 1>And she's like, how who has the time between her

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 1>job and her volunteer work at the refugee center, and

0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.800
<v Speaker 1>it's like, what refugee center, ma'am, Like when they said

0:25:57.800 --> 0:25:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Middle East, this all should have come to you, But

0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:02.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean it comes to her eventually. And now she

0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.840
<v Speaker 1>did just lose her daughter an acquire crime, of course,

0:26:05.920 --> 0:26:08.159
<v Speaker 1>but I'd be wanting to connect some dots if it

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.960
<v Speaker 1>were me, you know what. So now we're at this

0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 1>refugee center and it's where refugees are seeking asylum. Kate

0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:18.640
<v Speaker 1>was up a translator for them, using her Arabic. This

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.720
<v Speaker 1>woman is in one of the most classic walking talks ever.

0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:23.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she is just like walking through a room

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:28.040
<v Speaker 1>packed with refugees, still talking, picking up papers, handing people things.

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.239
<v Speaker 1>Benson is stabler want to see Kate's files, And at

0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:32.959
<v Speaker 1>first the boss is like, why so you can harass

0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:36.480
<v Speaker 1>her clients, and then she's like, okay, wait, I do

0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:37.919
<v Speaker 1>want to find out what happened to Kate. And she

0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:40.639
<v Speaker 1>admits that Kate had everything on her computer, which was

0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 1>intriguing stolen in a break in two days earlier, even

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.920
<v Speaker 1>though nothing else was stolen from the center, So something's

0:26:48.080 --> 0:26:52.560
<v Speaker 1>up here. On Monday, some guy called the center desperate

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:55.600
<v Speaker 1>to talk to Kate. So Stabler calls up you know whoever,

0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.720
<v Speaker 1>the magic Tech people and says, dump all the phones

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:00.600
<v Speaker 1>to this sent all the phone calls to the center,

0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>and they obviously have tracked it down. Into the next scene,

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.000
<v Speaker 1>we are at an apartment. A woman in a hijab

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 1>answers and she's like, we're looking for It's sorry, it's

0:27:10.320 --> 0:27:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Benson a Stabler, And they're like, we're looking for Harun,

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.679
<v Speaker 1>a boss. And the woman says, I'm Haroun's wife. And

0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Haroun is dead, done done, Like that's you know, a shock.

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:24.399
<v Speaker 1>He died the same night as Kate, allegedly of a

0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:27.479
<v Speaker 1>heart attack while driving his cab. And his wife is

0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:30.160
<v Speaker 1>not buying it. She's like, he was murdered one hundred

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:31.440
<v Speaker 1>percent by your government.

0:27:32.600 --> 0:27:36.080
<v Speaker 2>This is yeah, but the government is like bad at

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.119
<v Speaker 2>their job here, because it's like, you're only going to

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>steal the one laptop, like make it take a few

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:42.679
<v Speaker 2>extra things, yeah, confuse the case.

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:45.160
<v Speaker 3>You're going to kill both of them on the same day.

0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:48.160
<v Speaker 1>What are you doing? I know, yeah, you're right. It's

0:27:48.200 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 1>like making it too easy to piece together. So basically

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:55.520
<v Speaker 1>we're talking to Haroun's widow and she's like wed for

0:27:55.640 --> 0:27:57.880
<v Speaker 1>two years. We risk our lives to help the US

0:27:57.960 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 1>government in the first Golf War. That's how we got

0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 1>a is here. And then after nine to eleven everything changed.

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:05.639
<v Speaker 1>They handcuffed he Run, they took him away. He lost

0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.639
<v Speaker 1>fifty pounds in this camp. They broke his body and

0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:12.879
<v Speaker 1>crushed his soul, she says. On Monday, she said Harun

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:15.120
<v Speaker 1>was very nervous that he had to go meet someone,

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and she thought that when she got him back from

0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:21.159
<v Speaker 1>the camp they would be able to start over. But

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 1>then they found him and killed him. She's obviously very distraught.

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:28.920
<v Speaker 1>So now we are with our Queen Melinda Warner looking

0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 1>at her Run's body. There are no scars or visible

0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:35.560
<v Speaker 1>wounds really except ligature marks around the wrist. And the

0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:39.320
<v Speaker 1>guy had torn rotator cuffs and advanced congestive heart failure.

0:28:39.720 --> 0:28:43.120
<v Speaker 1>All of this is consistent with military torture. These are

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 1>like stress positions, like that he was in like with

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the like your arms pinned back behind you. And she

0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:52.520
<v Speaker 1>has a diagram that she points to very quickly, and

0:28:52.960 --> 0:28:56.600
<v Speaker 1>she checks his stomach and he had wish now ski ulcers,

0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 1>which are a sign of hypothermia. So ice ba are

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>also another part of torture, and so she says, if

0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:04.720
<v Speaker 1>he was in a nice bath, the stress may have

0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:08.440
<v Speaker 1>killed him. And then they're trying to connect Herun to

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 1>Kate and Melinda's like, oh, maybe they were lovers and

0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:13.400
<v Speaker 1>stablers like or terrorists, Like, you know, Stabler's always going

0:29:13.480 --> 0:29:16.000
<v Speaker 1>to kind of go a little bit Republican with it. Yeah,

0:29:16.080 --> 0:29:23.440
<v Speaker 1>do you think Stabler got vexed? He probably is, like, yeah,

0:29:23.440 --> 0:29:26.320
<v Speaker 1>that's a great fucking question. He seems like the kind

0:29:26.320 --> 0:29:29.080
<v Speaker 1>of guy that would be like, I'm with my union,

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:33.520
<v Speaker 1>needs to stand up for me and my rights. So,

0:29:34.360 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, liv comes back from a phone call, and

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:40.200
<v Speaker 1>as always such a funny plot device in this show

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:42.720
<v Speaker 1>that it's always like, what's next up? Someone just got

0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:44.960
<v Speaker 1>a phone call, here's the next stop. And they found

0:29:44.960 --> 0:29:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Harun's cab with a business card in it for doctor

0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:51.600
<v Speaker 1>Kelly Alvin at the Mercy Hospital Clinic for Survivors of Torture.

0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Now we're watching a video of hern talking to doctor

0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Alvin and Kate is right next to him as his translator,

0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:00.480
<v Speaker 1>So we're putting this together. That's how they know each other,

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:06.280
<v Speaker 1>translating for him, and they're talking to doctor Alvin live

0:30:06.480 --> 0:30:09.480
<v Speaker 1>and the actor is named Jennifer van Dijk, and I

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.560
<v Speaker 1>thought for sure I knew her. And she's just been

0:30:11.600 --> 0:30:14.280
<v Speaker 1>on Lawn Order like ten times across all four franchises,

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 1>so that's how I've seen her face.

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:18.720
<v Speaker 3>And hern story is like terrible.

0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 1>He talks about how they questioned him for twenty hours

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:23.920
<v Speaker 1>a day, made him stand naked in front of female soldiers,

0:30:24.000 --> 0:30:26.040
<v Speaker 1>let him around on a leash, like all these like

0:30:26.200 --> 0:30:31.320
<v Speaker 1>harrowing torture tactics. Haroun was keeping a journal and Kate

0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 1>wanted him to go public with it, and she was

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:35.360
<v Speaker 1>typing it all up on her computer at work, which

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:38.560
<v Speaker 1>explains why it got snatched. And they go back to

0:30:38.600 --> 0:30:41.560
<v Speaker 1>the tape and they watch a piece of it where

0:30:41.640 --> 0:30:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Haroun says he was grabbing a coffee at a diner

0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 1>on the West Side when he saw his torturer. So

0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:49.680
<v Speaker 1>now they do this thing where they're like, Okay, there's

0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 1>three hundred diners on the west Side, but luckily annoying

0:30:52.680 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 1>Lake knows where all the crews hang out by ethnicity. Yeah,

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:57.800
<v Speaker 1>this is what I mean. He has this like knowledge

0:30:57.800 --> 0:31:00.800
<v Speaker 1>where I'm like, I don't buy it, bro't, but yeah,

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.040
<v Speaker 1>you were sleep so I gotta nowhere to get a

0:31:03.040 --> 0:31:05.880
<v Speaker 1>good poached egg like you would be if I met

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 1>you on a blind date. I would like leave after

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:10.640
<v Speaker 1>the first drink. Yes, it's getting late. Diners are not

0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:12.240
<v Speaker 1>where you go for poached eggs.

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:16.600
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, A twenty four hour diner is not the poached

0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 2>egg place.

0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 1>Right, it's over easy, but you don't go poach at

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:27.400
<v Speaker 1>so true. So he knows that, like, basically where the

0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:30.160
<v Speaker 1>like I don't know where all the different guys hang out.

0:31:30.200 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 1>And he knows that the she Heights hang out in

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:34.360
<v Speaker 1>morning Side Heights and there's eight or nine diners on

0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 1>the west side of morning Side Heights. So like they

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.400
<v Speaker 1>basically divide it up and they all go to different diners.

0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:42.800
<v Speaker 1>And then Lake finds the diner and this guy is

0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:45.360
<v Speaker 1>like perfect. He remembers every single damn thing that happened

0:31:45.400 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>at this at this breakfast. He's like, yeah, I remember

0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:50.760
<v Speaker 1>this guy. He was sitting here eat his breakfast. Then

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:52.480
<v Speaker 1>he saw this couple. He got white as a sheet.

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:54.800
<v Speaker 1>He puked all over my counter, left me with the

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>mess to clean up. He knew like everything pulls the

0:31:57.720 --> 0:32:01.800
<v Speaker 1>receipts and uh. He says that the couple he was

0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>staring at the lady was a doctor and came up

0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 1>and offered to help them, but the husband that she

0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 1>was with got all nervous and pulled her away, and

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 1>then the cabby took off harun obviously. So basically the

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>theory that they're working over right there on the spot

0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.400
<v Speaker 1>is this guy didn't want his story getting out. After

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 1>he tortures her room to keep him quiet, he dies

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 1>and then he ends up killing Kate to keep her quiet.

0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:25.400
<v Speaker 1>So they find a receipt for the breakfast and the

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>person that paid for it is doctor Faith Sutton. To

0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:31.400
<v Speaker 1>breakfast twelve bucks a great price. Oh yeah, I thought,

0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I was like, wow, yeah.

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.120
<v Speaker 3>Years ago. Yeah, diners are not that cheap anymore.

0:32:37.520 --> 0:32:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, so not to blast them, but you know when

0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Williamsbury kellogg Diner, fun place I love the waffle fries

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:46.080
<v Speaker 2>and a girl cheese, they charged nine to ninety nine

0:32:46.120 --> 0:32:47.440
<v Speaker 2>for five mazzarella six.

0:32:48.240 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's not okay, no no no, no, no, no,

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:56.880
<v Speaker 1>no no no, not in my New York, I don't think.

0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:00.560
<v Speaker 1>So they go to question doctor Sutton, who play who

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:03.760
<v Speaker 1>is played by Elizabeth McGovern very. I mean, to me,

0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:06.240
<v Speaker 1>she's like an actress from my childhood. She was in

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:08.360
<v Speaker 1>she's having day because I don't know who the fuck

0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:10.120
<v Speaker 1>she is. You don't know where she is. Of course

0:33:10.120 --> 0:33:12.760
<v Speaker 1>she's played a pivotal role in your life. Yes, No,

0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:17.000
<v Speaker 1>because I remember there was Elizabeth Perkins and Elizabeth McGovern

0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:18.840
<v Speaker 1>when I was growing up, and Elizabeth Perkins is like

0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 1>the woman from Big and like from Weeds, and then

0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 1>this Elizabeth is from She's having a Baby and Handmaid's

0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:29.719
<v Speaker 1>Tale and Downton Abbey, so I would stay Downton Abbey

0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 1>of course. So she's Cornl Crawley on Downton Abbey, which

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:37.080
<v Speaker 1>is like her most American. No, she's American in the

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 1>show too. Oh okay, and she's American. Yeah. So she

0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 1>says the man she was with wasn't her husband. It

0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 1>was her old army buddy named George Tomford, which is

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 1>tom Ford as a last name, and I kind of

0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 1>think that's funny. Anyway, a cop in New Jersey takes

0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Vincent and Stabler to George Tomford's house. They find the

0:33:57.600 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 1>door open, the house has been completely cleared, and this

0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:03.240
<v Speaker 1>cop is like, oh, I know the Tomford's great guy.

0:34:03.400 --> 0:34:04.920
<v Speaker 3>Like our kids play Little League together.

0:34:04.960 --> 0:34:07.040
<v Speaker 1>So it's like he's very shocked that, like the family's

0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:08.520
<v Speaker 1>up and moved out in the middle of the night,

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 1>Like this is sketchy. It's not like, oh yeah, they

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:13.520
<v Speaker 1>had their house on the market for months. So now

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 1>the Army says he was Special Forces. He had a

0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:18.360
<v Speaker 1>purple heart, a bronze star. He left the Army in

0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:21.120
<v Speaker 1>ninety eight and he has become an employee of Helios

0:34:21.160 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Defense Industries, which is a British mercenary outfit.

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 3>Helios.

0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Basically what happens is they think is Helios has sent

0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:35.239
<v Speaker 1>Tomford after Harun. Then after he dies, he kills Kate

0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.080
<v Speaker 1>to cover his tracks. And so they go and they

0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 1>speak to Jack Rexton, who is the head of Helios

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.359
<v Speaker 1>in New York, and he is a very weird British man,

0:34:43.880 --> 0:34:46.880
<v Speaker 1>like he has a very like that Britishy villain accent,

0:34:47.680 --> 0:34:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and he initially is like, I Will, Will, I can't

0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:54.080
<v Speaker 1>handle a Tom Finds file. And then he's like, okay,

0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:56.839
<v Speaker 1>actually you can have it. So he they look through

0:34:56.840 --> 0:34:59.400
<v Speaker 1>his file and he's got ten letters of reprimand in

0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:01.839
<v Speaker 1>his file, like sessive force and threatening prisoners with rape

0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and murder. Like he does not seem like a good guy,

0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:07.359
<v Speaker 1>and he's listed as a behavioral science consultant, even though

0:35:07.360 --> 0:35:11.560
<v Speaker 1>he has zero training as a behavioral scientist. And the

0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:15.720
<v Speaker 1>connection with doctor Sutton is that she was a member

0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:20.799
<v Speaker 1>of Tomford's interrogation team in Massoul. So they go speak

0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:23.759
<v Speaker 1>to her and she's like, it's not torture. We use

0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:27.360
<v Speaker 1>stressor's tailored to certain vulnerabilities to help us gather information.

0:35:27.840 --> 0:35:30.759
<v Speaker 1>I would hardly call that torture. She's very chill for

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:33.480
<v Speaker 1>what's going on here. She's acting like this is all

0:35:33.560 --> 0:35:37.440
<v Speaker 1>a huge misunderstanding. Yeah, so she doesn't really think this

0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:41.800
<v Speaker 1>is torture. And when they ask her if she recognizes Harun,

0:35:42.239 --> 0:35:44.440
<v Speaker 1>she's like, oh, yeah, that's the guy that barfed, Like

0:35:44.440 --> 0:35:47.680
<v Speaker 1>she doesn't recognize him in any other capacity. Well, she's

0:35:47.719 --> 0:35:49.400
<v Speaker 1>a lying bitch, that's what she is.

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like if you don't think you did anything wrong,

0:35:51.800 --> 0:35:54.280
<v Speaker 2>why wouldn't you say like, oh, yeah, I interrogated him,

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:55.960
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean? And like I thought you

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.319
<v Speaker 2>didn't do anything. I thought you didn't torture. So what's the.

0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Problem, right, I didn't really even catch that she's fully

0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:07.319
<v Speaker 1>lying here. That's true, Like unless she's tortured so many

0:36:07.360 --> 0:36:09.520
<v Speaker 1>guys that she couldn't possibly tell them apart and like

0:36:09.600 --> 0:36:11.319
<v Speaker 1>remember each one of them, Like who knows?

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:13.959
<v Speaker 3>But that's not a good excuse either.

0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 1>She says her work in Iraq was lawful, humane, and

0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:22.480
<v Speaker 1>imperative to US intelligence. Okay, so now we see through

0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:25.720
<v Speaker 1>the window that who's watching her being interrogated is Warner

0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and Huang, and that is not a matchup. You see

0:36:28.080 --> 0:36:31.719
<v Speaker 1>that much. I was excited to see this duo sparring

0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:35.080
<v Speaker 1>it up. Huang doesn't think that this woman was directly

0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:38.479
<v Speaker 1>involved in any torture, but Melinda is not buying it.

0:36:38.680 --> 0:36:42.000
<v Speaker 1>She's like, hello, hippocratic oath, like first do no harm?

0:36:42.160 --> 0:36:43.359
<v Speaker 3>Like what's what?

0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Like this doctor is completely going against everything that you

0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:49.359
<v Speaker 1>know the medical profession stands for. And Huang is like, well,

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.799
<v Speaker 1>when I trick people into, you know, confessing or telling

0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:57.400
<v Speaker 1>me something about themselves, I'm using my psychological interrogation skills.

0:36:57.480 --> 0:37:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm definitely doing some harm, but it's for the greater good.

0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:04.400
<v Speaker 1>And then Melinda's like, yo, peep the optopsy, it's not good,

0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Like nothing is that's happened to this man is good.

0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 1>So now back in doctor Sutton's interrogation, Olivia is like,

0:37:13.360 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 1>so did Tomford learn how to kill with one stab?

0:37:15.680 --> 0:37:17.160
<v Speaker 1>To the Heart and the Army or did you teach

0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:21.000
<v Speaker 1>him that kind of anatomy lesson? And then in walks

0:37:21.120 --> 0:37:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Weber, the guy from Wings. He's been on three

0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.799
<v Speaker 1>svus as attorney Matthew Brayden, that's who he is here.

0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:30.880
<v Speaker 1>And he shows up to be her lawyer with Novak

0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>right behind, and she's like interviews. It's like Gary Cooper, right,

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.920
<v Speaker 1>but younger a little bit yeah, and a little bit

0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>more handsome, like he was on a show Wings for

0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:42.080
<v Speaker 1>a really long time? Was that about the air Force?

0:37:42.320 --> 0:37:44.799
<v Speaker 1>The airport? It was about an airport. I believe it

0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:47.759
<v Speaker 1>was about an airport in Nantucket. I think that's what

0:37:47.800 --> 0:37:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Wings is about about, like a tiny airport. He calls

0:37:51.840 --> 0:37:54.440
<v Speaker 1>them out to try for like like all their tactics.

0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:56.880
<v Speaker 1>He's like, you're questioning her without counsel, you're blocking her

0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:58.839
<v Speaker 1>path to the door. You put her in this chair

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 1>with a short legs at wobble so she can't get comfortable.

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:04.560
<v Speaker 3>It's very like who's torturing who?

0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:06.880
<v Speaker 1>But it's like, no, trying to make somebody uncomfortable is

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 1>a little bit different than like tying their hands behind

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:10.120
<v Speaker 1>their back for like a weekend.

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:12.040
<v Speaker 3>So now who's paying.

0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:14.359
<v Speaker 1>For braid It's funny, what'd you do this weekend? Oh,

0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:21.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, just hang in, But they really are so

0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:23.600
<v Speaker 1>they want to know who's paying for Braiden, because you

0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:25.200
<v Speaker 1>get the feeling that he's kind of like a high

0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:29.200
<v Speaker 1>priced attorney, and Daddy Craigan is like, my money's on helios.

0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:33.080
<v Speaker 1>They also bought Tomford and his whole family first class

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 1>flights to Bahrain, which coincidentally does not have an extradition

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.799
<v Speaker 1>treaty with the US, so we're not getting him back.

0:38:40.360 --> 0:38:43.319
<v Speaker 1>And basically, Novak's kind of like, well, there's not much

0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 1>to be done here, and Melinda's like, why not try

0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:49.480
<v Speaker 1>doctor Sutton. Her interrogation techniques caused Tarun's death and probably

0:38:49.480 --> 0:38:52.879
<v Speaker 1>the death of many more people, and if he died

0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 1>in New York City, then there's jurisdiction and any reasonable

0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:58.319
<v Speaker 1>doc could have foreseen that her tactics would lead to

0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 1>death and that they're or if there's a case for

0:39:01.360 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 1>criminally negligent homicide.

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:05.319
<v Speaker 3>Warner is really invested here.

0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:08.440
<v Speaker 1>She's like very grossed out by like this woman's tactics

0:39:08.480 --> 0:39:10.839
<v Speaker 1>and wants to see this one through because I don't

0:39:10.840 --> 0:39:15.360
<v Speaker 1>think that's my favorite. I like when any of the detectives, lawyers.

0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:17.440
<v Speaker 2>And now here Melinda get invested when they really care

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:18.120
<v Speaker 2>about a case.

0:39:18.600 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I like that she's putting all her money in this

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 1>to the stock of this case. She is invested. So

0:39:25.440 --> 0:39:27.799
<v Speaker 1>they go to talk to doctor Alvin again at the

0:39:27.800 --> 0:39:33.480
<v Speaker 1>torture clinic and she explains that after nine and eleven,

0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:37.320
<v Speaker 1>doctors started using medical records to target physical and emotional

0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:41.319
<v Speaker 1>weaknesses and they called it torture light. And then you

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:43.120
<v Speaker 1>go into She's like, let me just show you some

0:39:43.200 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 1>of the people that's like elestra. It's like you get diarrhea,

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:54.680
<v Speaker 1>yea torture light. It's like as okay. So they go

0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:56.719
<v Speaker 1>into inside. You laughed. It didn't work. At first, you

0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:59.080
<v Speaker 1>were kind of silent, and I was like, that's humiliating.

0:40:00.920 --> 0:40:02.400
<v Speaker 1>I didn't get what you were saying. And then I

0:40:02.400 --> 0:40:10.200
<v Speaker 1>got because it doesn't make sense, all right. So we

0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>go into this montage of people speaking in their mother

0:40:13.239 --> 0:40:16.520
<v Speaker 1>tongues with subtitles explaining how they were tortured, like had

0:40:16.520 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 1>they were blasted with ac pumped with water until they

0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>pissed themselves, like starve, humiliated, fed pork when it was

0:40:22.800 --> 0:40:26.920
<v Speaker 1>against the religion. They have nightmares, pain lifelong injuries like,

0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 1>and that's kind of all they need to hear.

0:40:28.840 --> 0:40:31.360
<v Speaker 3>So Benson and Stabler go and arrest doctor Sutton.

0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Bail is set at a half a mill, not a

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:38.279
<v Speaker 1>low bail, and although they don't seem to act like

0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 1>there's gonna be an problem paying it, and Stephen Weber

0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:48.319
<v Speaker 1>aka Bryden, the Attorney, delivers a motion to dismiss, saying

0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:50.880
<v Speaker 1>it's out of jurisdiction since the torture took place in

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:52.239
<v Speaker 1>I Rock, not in New York.

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:53.840
<v Speaker 3>And then our.

0:40:53.719 --> 0:41:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Favorite judge, Louise Lewis Lois Louis Lois Preston. She takes

0:41:01.239 --> 0:41:05.719
<v Speaker 1>Novak's argument into consideration that this is continuous jurisdiction since

0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 1>the tactics were taught in New York and that the

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:12.839
<v Speaker 1>victim then died in New York, it's continuous jurisdiction. So

0:41:13.160 --> 0:41:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Brayden tries to sass Novak, and he's like, you know,

0:41:17.719 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 1>he's kind of like, look at you on your high horse.

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Like his it doesn't it doesn't even work as a joke.

0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 1>He's like, how do you walk down these steps while

0:41:23.640 --> 0:41:25.480
<v Speaker 1>you're on your high horse? It's like horses know how

0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:28.440
<v Speaker 1>to walk on steps anyway? Or do they don't.

0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:29.760
<v Speaker 3>They can't walk down steps.

0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:32.359
<v Speaker 1>Remember I told a story about Retta and how I

0:41:32.440 --> 0:41:35.240
<v Speaker 1>was doing this horse and they like forced the horse

0:41:35.280 --> 0:41:37.200
<v Speaker 1>and then the horse wouldn't leave the stage because it

0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:41.279
<v Speaker 1>was scared of going downstairs. Okay, that was standing. I

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:42.960
<v Speaker 1>don't think it made a lot of sense. He's like, hey,

0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you walking down those stairs on that high horse, or

0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.799
<v Speaker 1>it didn't. It wasn't making a lot of sense. I

0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:51.640
<v Speaker 1>just don't like his attitude towards our our Casey Novak. Yeah,

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:53.440
<v Speaker 1>so he's sassing her and she goes did you know

0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:55.880
<v Speaker 1>that support for the US presence in Iraq dropped fifty

0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 1>percent after Abu grab pictures came out and Branden like

0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 1>shows Novak up picture of this little girl, and we

0:42:01.280 --> 0:42:03.400
<v Speaker 1>basically find out that Braden used to be a cop,

0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:07.600
<v Speaker 1>and he explains that this little girl was buried alive

0:42:07.640 --> 0:42:10.600
<v Speaker 1>in Brooklyn. The purp would not confess for like forty

0:42:10.640 --> 0:42:13.560
<v Speaker 1>eight hours, and then this guy had his partner leave

0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the room and broke the guy's arm in three places.

0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 1>He confessed where the girl was, They found her, and

0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:21.719
<v Speaker 1>now she's alive. And so his argument is like, isn't

0:42:21.760 --> 0:42:26.200
<v Speaker 1>it cool how torture is cool and works, and Casey's like,

0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:29.200
<v Speaker 1>you could have been wrong, you know, so and he's like,

0:42:29.239 --> 0:42:32.120
<v Speaker 1>but I wasn't, you know. So he basically gets a

0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:34.440
<v Speaker 1>call at the same moment that he's talking to Casey

0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:37.800
<v Speaker 1>that Judge Preston is going for the continuous jurisdiction argument,

0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:41.920
<v Speaker 1>So they're going to trial baby, and they are in trial.

0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:45.520
<v Speaker 1>Next scene showing portions of Harun's video detailing his torture.

0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Doctor Warner is on the stand and she's explaining that

0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Haroun died of hypothermically induced cardiac arrhythmia and he had

0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:56.359
<v Speaker 1>no prior history of heart disease. So then Braiden goes

0:42:56.400 --> 0:42:59.960
<v Speaker 1>to cross examine Melinda and is like, can you definitively.

0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:02.560
<v Speaker 3>Say that these practice has caused this death? And she can't.

0:43:02.680 --> 0:43:04.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, It's kind of like what they were saying

0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:08.400
<v Speaker 1>before in Loophole, like I can't definitively say that this

0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:11.680
<v Speaker 1>poison gave all these people these illnesses, but like it's

0:43:12.040 --> 0:43:16.000
<v Speaker 1>pretty likely you just cannot definitively say it. So anyway,

0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:19.080
<v Speaker 1>that's like the ending of Melinda's testimony, Like she's like,

0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:21.200
<v Speaker 1>you can't say that, I can't say that, but she

0:43:21.400 --> 0:43:24.839
<v Speaker 1>looks pissed because she's very positive that this is what

0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:28.799
<v Speaker 1>caused it. Doctor Sutton is on the stand now and

0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.680
<v Speaker 1>she said she's been questioning terrorist suspects since nine to eleven.

0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:34.879
<v Speaker 1>And they show a picture of this terrorist who led

0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 1>an anti American Chite militia and they interrogated him and

0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:42.839
<v Speaker 1>they found all these musicians, so wow, interrogation works. And

0:43:42.880 --> 0:43:47.480
<v Speaker 1>then she reveals that Helios later questioned his cousin, this terrorist,

0:43:47.719 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 1>and his cousin was Haruna Boss. Everyone in the courtroom gasps.

0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Order in the court like, this man being cousins with

0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:57.239
<v Speaker 1>this terrorist makes him an automatic terrorist to everybody in

0:43:57.239 --> 0:43:57.880
<v Speaker 1>this courtroom.

0:43:58.320 --> 0:44:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I have a cousin, even'n to in year Like,

0:44:00.920 --> 0:44:01.839
<v Speaker 2>what does a cousin mean?

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Nothing?

0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my cousin is a psycho. She blocked me on

0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Facebook and votes for Trump. We're not together on anything,

0:44:07.080 --> 0:44:12.520
<v Speaker 1>you know. So doctor Sutton is maintaining that beating, electric shock, waterboarding,

0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:14.920
<v Speaker 1>none of that was part of it of what they

0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:18.600
<v Speaker 1>did for these interrogations, and she said that's why I'm there.

0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:20.920
<v Speaker 1>A physician is there to stop things from getting out

0:44:20.960 --> 0:44:24.080
<v Speaker 1>of hand. And Novak's like, oh, pardon me, weren't there

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.520
<v Speaker 1>doctors at Abu Grabe and she shows a picture of

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:30.800
<v Speaker 1>a man wearing a hood with his hands tied behind

0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 1>his back, like at a ninety degree angle from his back,

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a stress position for sure. And she's like,

0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:40.959
<v Speaker 1>is this part of what you do? And she's like, yes,

0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:43.480
<v Speaker 1>it is. She admits that it is, and she admits

0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:45.719
<v Speaker 1>that they stay in that position sometimes for twenty four

0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:49.360
<v Speaker 1>to forty eight hours, but doesn't know about lasting harm

0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:52.839
<v Speaker 1>because the follow up is done by camp physicians. And

0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:55.520
<v Speaker 1>Novak's like, well, let me tell you about the lasting harm.

0:44:55.640 --> 0:44:57.759
<v Speaker 1>A fifth of the detainees who died in New York

0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.040
<v Speaker 1>US custody were young men with no his of heart issues,

0:45:01.280 --> 0:45:04.000
<v Speaker 1>and you had no suspicion that your methods could lead

0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:07.799
<v Speaker 1>to death. And then doctor Sutton launches straight into a

0:45:07.840 --> 0:45:10.120
<v Speaker 1>speech that my only my dad could love.

0:45:10.680 --> 0:45:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I was about to say, it's like you're

0:45:12.280 --> 0:45:14.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to be whoopier and artily, but you ain't shit bitch,

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:18.479
<v Speaker 2>you know not, Elizabeth McGovern, no shade, But we don't

0:45:18.480 --> 0:45:20.960
<v Speaker 2>care about what you're saying. You're not touching me or

0:45:21.040 --> 0:45:23.120
<v Speaker 2>my soul, and I will not care my speech along,

0:45:23.200 --> 0:45:25.400
<v Speaker 2>even though you think you're being powerful.

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, and she's like, miss Novak, how would you protect

0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:31.279
<v Speaker 1>our country? I have a son in Iraq? How would

0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:34.040
<v Speaker 1>you protect him? You think asking nicely is going to

0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:35.680
<v Speaker 1>get them to tell us when they're flying the next

0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:38.279
<v Speaker 1>set of plane into our buildings, and it's like, wow,

0:45:38.320 --> 0:45:40.799
<v Speaker 1>they're just like so pulling on nine to eleven so

0:45:40.920 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>hard in this episode. And it is an episode from

0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:48.120
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and nine, right right, let me look, no,

0:45:48.160 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven, so I guess it's five years

0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:52.919
<v Speaker 1>after nine to eleven, so or six years, so they're

0:45:52.960 --> 0:45:56.960
<v Speaker 1>still they're still hitting it pretty hard with getting people

0:45:57.000 --> 0:45:59.560
<v Speaker 1>to feel, you know, sort of pulled in two directions

0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:03.200
<v Speaker 1>about night eleven and then she so she's going on

0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:06.320
<v Speaker 1>her little rampage. Judge Lois Preston is like, bitch, shut

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:09.120
<v Speaker 1>the fuck up, stopped yelling. And then in the middle

0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:13.480
<v Speaker 1>of all this, the adjuror has a heart attack. It's

0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:15.960
<v Speaker 1>so wild. This old man's like ugh, and then just

0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:19.759
<v Speaker 1>keels over. Sutton and Warner start working together to help him.

0:46:19.800 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 1>They're like doing chest compressions, Warner's doing mouth to fucking mouth.

0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:24.560
<v Speaker 3>It's wild.

0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:29.360
<v Speaker 1>So obviously, once the person that's on trial is a

0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:31.800
<v Speaker 1>hero in the middle of the trial.

0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 3>It cannot go on. It's declared a mistrial.

0:46:35.080 --> 0:46:36.719
<v Speaker 1>She's on the cover of like, you know, the New

0:46:36.800 --> 0:46:40.320
<v Speaker 1>York Ledger as like the hero of the situation. Bryden

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:43.439
<v Speaker 1>is there just like smugging it up to Stabler. He's

0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:45.960
<v Speaker 1>like in the precinct, He's like, your whole job is

0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 1>about coercion? Are you telling me you've never laid hands?

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:54.080
<v Speaker 1>And Stabler, in a rare moment of self awareness and maturity, goes, yeah,

0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:57.040
<v Speaker 1>I have, and nine times out of ten it was counterproductive.

0:46:57.400 --> 0:47:01.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm not proud of it. That's a shock. You wouldn't

0:47:01.200 --> 0:47:04.399
<v Speaker 1>know it by looking at a jacket. You wouldn't know it.

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.160
<v Speaker 1>So then Melinda blows in with a little bit of

0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>good news that she reported doctor Sutton to the Medical

0:47:11.200 --> 0:47:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Board and that they're going to review the status of

0:47:13.200 --> 0:47:17.440
<v Speaker 1>her medical license. At the Medical Board review, she's saying

0:47:17.640 --> 0:47:22.279
<v Speaker 1>medical ethics didn't apply because there was no doctor patient relationship.

0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 1>I was a scientific consultant. And they're kind of like,

0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:28.080
<v Speaker 1>are you saying what happens in Iraq stays in Iraq?

0:47:28.160 --> 0:47:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Like it's just not, it's just not. You can't be like,

0:47:32.000 --> 0:47:34.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a doctor here, like in this specific moment,

0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:36.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't have to be a doctor because these aren't

0:47:36.440 --> 0:47:39.440
<v Speaker 1>my like actual patients, and I'm just a consultant, like

0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:41.560
<v Speaker 1>a drop irresponsibility.

0:47:41.920 --> 0:47:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I hope in my lifetime that what happens in Vegas

0:47:45.600 --> 0:47:49.719
<v Speaker 2>stays in Vegas, disappears like the bomb, Like I just like,

0:47:49.760 --> 0:47:50.719
<v Speaker 2>I can't, I can't.

0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:52.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean the phrase the bomb.

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like we don't hear that anymore, you know, Yeah,

0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:57.319
<v Speaker 2>why you do.

0:47:57.400 --> 0:48:00.840
<v Speaker 3>From really dorky people, but they're trying to be funny.

0:48:01.400 --> 0:48:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, people will be like, oh I still hear people

0:48:03.960 --> 0:48:05.600
<v Speaker 1>be like that's the bomb dot com. And I'm like,

0:48:05.840 --> 0:48:09.080
<v Speaker 1>get stop stop. I just hate the what happens in

0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:12.799
<v Speaker 1>a lot? Yeah really, I go, yeah, it's not good.

0:48:13.440 --> 0:48:18.120
<v Speaker 1>So basically, right after this medical board review, Warner's walking

0:48:18.160 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 1>out and doctor Sutton is right behind her, and she's like,

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.760
<v Speaker 1>are you happy? A temporary suspension can still ruin a career?

0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:28.359
<v Speaker 1>So this bitch just got temporary suspended and she's like,

0:48:28.360 --> 0:48:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say I'm pleased, And the doctor Sutton is like,

0:48:32.520 --> 0:48:34.880
<v Speaker 1>this country is at war and I've got the skills

0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:37.160
<v Speaker 1>to contribute to that fight. And she's like, you took

0:48:37.160 --> 0:48:39.239
<v Speaker 1>an oath you don't get to take a time out

0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:40.120
<v Speaker 1>because we're at war.

0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.560
<v Speaker 3>The Oath was written for times like these.

0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Mike drop, that's a wrap on Doctor Warner and that

0:48:47.480 --> 0:48:49.440
<v Speaker 1>is Dick Wolf Baby.

0:48:49.640 --> 0:48:52.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really is, like that's the whole. That's what

0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:54.799
<v Speaker 2>integrity is. Like, that's what's hard. It's like, what are

0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:56.839
<v Speaker 2>you doing when no one's looking? Or when you don't

0:48:56.840 --> 0:48:59.040
<v Speaker 2>want to follow the rules? You know, like that is

0:48:59.080 --> 0:49:02.080
<v Speaker 2>the point? Easy to be a good person when ship's chill?

0:49:02.400 --> 0:49:04.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or are you gonna are you gonna share your

0:49:04.280 --> 0:49:05.320
<v Speaker 1>food when it's wartime?

0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:07.319
<v Speaker 3>Okay, totally thank you for that.

0:49:07.600 --> 0:49:10.279
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'll take us along on the on

0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the real crime soon. I mean when we get back

0:49:13.480 --> 0:49:17.680
<v Speaker 2>from the break soon soon. Who know who's to say when?

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:33.640
<v Speaker 2>So this is obviously my favorite. I love when they

0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:36.200
<v Speaker 2>say not the crime, not this, but I love when

0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:39.040
<v Speaker 2>they say the crime in the episode when they reference it.

0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Whatever.

0:49:40.160 --> 0:49:42.359
<v Speaker 2>This is more of a not a theory, but it's

0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:45.399
<v Speaker 2>Abu Grabe, so it's not just one specific thing. It's

0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:48.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a moment in time. I also did

0:49:48.280 --> 0:49:51.200
<v Speaker 2>not know the difference between going Tanamo Bay and Abu Grabe,

0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:51.839
<v Speaker 2>So I am.

0:49:51.760 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 3>Really happy that we get to.

0:49:53.840 --> 0:50:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Do this episode again shining for that Pulitzer Prize. Yeah, yeah,

0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:04.359
<v Speaker 1>sometimes listen. So you know I have a New York

0:50:04.360 --> 0:50:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Times subscription now and the New Yorker I am you know, yeah, yeah,

0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:12.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't. I there's got to be a

0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:15.080
<v Speaker 1>website where it tells you everything you're subscribing to, right,

0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:15.759
<v Speaker 1>I need help.

0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:17.279
<v Speaker 3>It's like, I don't need. I don't need.

0:50:17.920 --> 0:50:21.960
<v Speaker 1>It's too many subscriptions. Okay, So what was tough about

0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:24.760
<v Speaker 1>this was for pages. It was like opinion pieces.

0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:27.120
<v Speaker 2>It was really hard in the beginning of my research

0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:29.800
<v Speaker 2>to find facts and like what really happened because everyone

0:50:29.920 --> 0:50:32.719
<v Speaker 2>just had so many opinions and editorials. So it was

0:50:32.800 --> 0:50:35.759
<v Speaker 2>like dozens of editorials before I was even able to

0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:40.000
<v Speaker 2>find some stuff. There's like a Susan Sontad piece and

0:50:40.040 --> 0:50:42.959
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I don't need this, even though she's

0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:47.000
<v Speaker 2>cool or whatever. And then I went to YouTube to say,

0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:49.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe i'll you know, maybe there'll be something on YouTube.

0:50:49.239 --> 0:50:50.799
<v Speaker 2>And the first thing that was there was an Abu

0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Grab the musical, and then it was Fox News. So

0:50:53.200 --> 0:50:55.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like, what the fuck am I gonna do? Like,

0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:56.800
<v Speaker 2>where am I going to find stuff?

0:50:57.600 --> 0:50:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:50:58.000 --> 0:50:59.880
<v Speaker 1>So that's like that, that's what was hard. It was

0:51:00.320 --> 0:51:01.920
<v Speaker 1>like the lasting ghosts, and.

0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:04.080
<v Speaker 2>Then it was like people that were guilty confessing and

0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, what the fuck? So yeah, so the New

0:51:06.440 --> 0:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Yorker is where it really happened, and I did feel

0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:13.040
<v Speaker 2>like Elwood's okay, So now we will begin. Abu Gray

0:51:13.120 --> 0:51:16.680
<v Speaker 2>Prison was a US Army detention center for captured Iraqis

0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:18.680
<v Speaker 2>from two thousand and three to two thousand and six.

0:51:19.360 --> 0:51:21.759
<v Speaker 2>It was twenty miles west of Baghdad, and it's one

0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:24.200
<v Speaker 2>of the world's most notorious prisons, and it was filled

0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 2>with torture, weekly executions, and vile living conditions. And so

0:51:28.400 --> 0:51:32.279
<v Speaker 2>there's also like no accurate count that's possible to say

0:51:32.280 --> 0:51:34.279
<v Speaker 2>how many people were there, but The New Yorker said

0:51:34.320 --> 0:51:36.640
<v Speaker 2>fifty thousand men and women were jailed there at one time,

0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:38.960
<v Speaker 2>But then CNN wrote that it's at the height there

0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.640
<v Speaker 2>was only thirty eight hundred detainees, so.

0:51:41.640 --> 0:51:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was like maybe that was like the maximum

0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:46.520
<v Speaker 1>people they had at one time, but fifty thousand rotated

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:47.040
<v Speaker 1>through there.

0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:49.200
<v Speaker 2>Listen, this is why we're a duo, you know what

0:51:49.200 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, This is why we're a duo. So eventually,

0:51:53.360 --> 0:51:56.120
<v Speaker 2>after all of this eleven soldiers were convicted of crimes

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:59.239
<v Speaker 2>relating to Abu Grab and seven of them were from Maryland,

0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:02.239
<v Speaker 2>so they were all good buds. They were all from

0:52:02.239 --> 0:52:06.440
<v Speaker 2>the three hundred and seventy second Military Police Company. A

0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:08.799
<v Speaker 2>number of other service people were not charged, but they

0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:10.879
<v Speaker 2>did get in trouble whatever that means, like, I don't

0:52:10.880 --> 0:52:13.160
<v Speaker 2>know if they just got spanked or something by the.

0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:16.000
<v Speaker 3>Military, but pretty chill.

0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:20.040
<v Speaker 2>So the regime collapsed in Iraq April two thousand and

0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:22.520
<v Speaker 2>three ish, and so then there's this huge prison and

0:52:22.560 --> 0:52:25.719
<v Speaker 2>it was deserted and stripped of everything that could be removed,

0:52:26.280 --> 0:52:29.920
<v Speaker 2>and then coalition authorities had the floors tiled, the cells

0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:33.840
<v Speaker 2>cleaned and repaired and added toilet showers, a new medical center,

0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:37.120
<v Speaker 2>and just really HGTV the shit out of this US

0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:38.040
<v Speaker 2>military prison.

0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:38.520
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:52:39.320 --> 0:52:43.560
<v Speaker 2>They took it from gross prison to sexy prison, and

0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:46.240
<v Speaker 2>by the fall it was filled with several thousand people,

0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:48.080
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of them were just civilians that were

0:52:48.120 --> 0:52:52.200
<v Speaker 2>randomly picked up by military sweeps. And these several thousand

0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:55.799
<v Speaker 2>people were put into three loose categories. So there's common criminals,

0:52:56.239 --> 0:52:59.279
<v Speaker 2>then there's security detainees, and these are people that are

0:52:59.320 --> 0:53:02.680
<v Speaker 2>suspected of crimes against the coalition and a small number

0:53:02.680 --> 0:53:06.359
<v Speaker 2>of suspected quote unquote high value leaders of the insurgency

0:53:06.480 --> 0:53:08.000
<v Speaker 2>against coalition forces.

0:53:08.960 --> 0:53:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So you know who was in charge? How did this

0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:11.520
<v Speaker 1>all get going?

0:53:11.560 --> 0:53:14.960
<v Speaker 2>So June two thousand and three, Janie Karpinski, she was

0:53:15.000 --> 0:53:17.080
<v Speaker 2>an Army Reserve bridgidier.

0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:19.120
<v Speaker 3>This is what I mean. These words are out of control.

0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:22.640
<v Speaker 2>She was a general and she was named the commander

0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:25.800
<v Speaker 2>of the eight hundredth Military Police Bridge and put in

0:53:25.920 --> 0:53:28.680
<v Speaker 2>charge of military prisons in Iraq. And she was the

0:53:28.680 --> 0:53:32.080
<v Speaker 2>only female commander in the war zone. But she was

0:53:32.560 --> 0:53:35.759
<v Speaker 2>like super experienced in tons of other things, but had

0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:38.440
<v Speaker 2>never run a prison system before. So it's like she

0:53:38.480 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 2>had all these credits but for other shits. So the

0:53:40.440 --> 0:53:42.040
<v Speaker 2>fact that she was put in charge of this makes

0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:45.759
<v Speaker 2>no fucking sense. July two thousand and three, Amnesty International

0:53:45.840 --> 0:53:50.040
<v Speaker 2>criticized the US military of subjecting Iraqi prisoners to cruel, inhumane,

0:53:50.080 --> 0:53:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and degrading conditions. So this chick, Janis she wanted to

0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:59.799
<v Speaker 2>be a soldier since she was five and is like

0:53:59.840 --> 0:54:02.520
<v Speaker 2>a business consultant in civilian life. So she is a

0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:06.480
<v Speaker 2>deranged sociopath. Okay, So she was in operations and intelligence

0:54:06.520 --> 0:54:09.200
<v Speaker 2>officer and served in Special Forces, and now she's in

0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:13.279
<v Speaker 2>charge of three large jails, eight battalions and thirty four

0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:15.719
<v Speaker 2>hundred Army reservists who like her.

0:54:16.160 --> 0:54:18.719
<v Speaker 3>And they also had no training in handling prisoners.

0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.360
<v Speaker 1>So it was just a who's who of clueless people

0:54:21.440 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 1>in this person and the group that they had brought

0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:27.400
<v Speaker 1>in arrived Iraq to do routine traffic and police duties

0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:30.120
<v Speaker 1>in the spring, and then by October they were ordered

0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:32.799
<v Speaker 1>to prison guard duty. So these are people that were

0:54:32.800 --> 0:54:35.480
<v Speaker 1>just going to do chill stuff and they're yeah, it's

0:54:35.520 --> 0:54:39.200
<v Speaker 1>just no one was really prepped for what this job was.

0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:42.880
<v Speaker 1>And she was quoted once in the Saint Petersburg Times

0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:47.120
<v Speaker 1>what is that? But she said, Oh, the Iraqi inmates

0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:49.480
<v Speaker 1>love it here, and the conditions are better than their

0:54:49.480 --> 0:54:52.120
<v Speaker 1>own lives, and actually I'm quite concerned they would never

0:54:52.160 --> 0:54:55.880
<v Speaker 1>want to leave. See sociopath. This is a this is

0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:57.560
<v Speaker 1>not a normal moment. Yeah.

0:54:58.920 --> 0:55:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Ugh, I just oh, yeah, the rakis love it here.

0:55:01.760 --> 0:55:04.560
<v Speaker 3>I just loving it. Yeah, it's like a resort.

0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:08.080
<v Speaker 2>One report indicated that she would sign orders calling for

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:10.480
<v Speaker 2>changes to ship, but then never followed up and no

0:55:10.560 --> 0:55:12.640
<v Speaker 2>one carried out orders, and there were just tons of

0:55:12.640 --> 0:55:17.200
<v Speaker 2>security issues, escapees, incidents that led to killings and wounding

0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:17.880
<v Speaker 2>of inmates.

0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:19.640
<v Speaker 3>It was just kind of a free for all.

0:55:20.120 --> 0:55:22.960
<v Speaker 2>And if she was there, she could have maybe ensued

0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:25.319
<v Speaker 2>day to day procedures were being followed and that could

0:55:25.360 --> 0:55:28.440
<v Speaker 2>have led to like many less cases of abuse. But

0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:31.160
<v Speaker 2>she did not do that, and a month after that

0:55:31.239 --> 0:55:34.200
<v Speaker 2>interview when she said that wild thing about them loving

0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:37.400
<v Speaker 2>the jail, she was formally admonished, suspended, and there was

0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.880
<v Speaker 2>a giant investigation into the Army's prison system that was

0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:44.880
<v Speaker 2>authorized by Lieutenant General Ricardo S. Sanchez, who was a

0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:49.840
<v Speaker 2>senior commander in Iraq. Another character in this is Major

0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:51.480
<v Speaker 2>General Jeffrey D.

0:55:51.600 --> 0:55:51.920
<v Speaker 3>Miller.

0:55:51.960 --> 0:55:53.680
<v Speaker 1>I know it's Jeffrey, but if you're gonna spell it

0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:55.000
<v Speaker 1>like that, I'm gonna call you Jeoffrey.

0:55:57.680 --> 0:56:01.680
<v Speaker 2>And he arrives my birthday August thirty first, two thousand

0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:05.400
<v Speaker 2>and three, and until September ninth, he leads a survey

0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:09.680
<v Speaker 2>team on intelligence, interrogation and detention operations in Iraq. So

0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:15.040
<v Speaker 2>immediately following that, military intelligence officers ask for control of

0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Tiers one A and one B for interrogation of high

0:56:18.840 --> 0:56:20.080
<v Speaker 2>value detainees.

0:56:20.600 --> 0:56:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, I don't know what these tiers.

0:56:22.080 --> 0:56:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Mean, but this guy comes and gives a presentation and

0:56:24.600 --> 0:56:28.080
<v Speaker 2>then they asked to control these tiers. Okay, m hm,

0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:31.800
<v Speaker 2>well maybe we'll learn about the tears later, we will, okay.

0:56:32.960 --> 0:56:35.720
<v Speaker 2>So then there's this fifty three page report that's obtained

0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:39.000
<v Speaker 2>by the New Yorker and it was not meant for

0:56:39.080 --> 0:56:39.880
<v Speaker 2>public release.

0:56:40.960 --> 0:56:42.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's like a huge thing.

0:56:42.400 --> 0:56:45.680
<v Speaker 2>And that was completed February two thousand and four, and

0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:49.520
<v Speaker 2>the conclusions of this report were obviously not good, or

0:56:49.560 --> 0:56:52.280
<v Speaker 2>we would not know about this case and all those photos.

0:56:52.520 --> 0:56:55.799
<v Speaker 2>So specifically, between October and December two thousand and three,

0:56:56.239 --> 0:57:00.120
<v Speaker 2>there was a bunch of instances of sadistic, blatant and

0:57:00.239 --> 0:57:03.920
<v Speaker 2>wanton criminal abuses at Abu Grabe. And those are all

0:57:03.920 --> 0:57:06.960
<v Speaker 2>words that I use normally in my life.

0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:10.879
<v Speaker 1>Because I okay, so the word is wanton because when

0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you say wanton, it sounds like a Chinese soup. I know,

0:57:18.000 --> 0:57:19.280
<v Speaker 1>now I want Chinese food.

0:57:19.400 --> 0:57:22.120
<v Speaker 2>So far, and then all these fucked up things were

0:57:22.160 --> 0:57:24.240
<v Speaker 2>done by the soldiers of that three hundred and seventy

0:57:24.280 --> 0:57:27.960
<v Speaker 2>second Military Police Company that I had mentioned before, and

0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:31.200
<v Speaker 2>by members of the American intelligence community, and these people

0:57:31.240 --> 0:57:35.880
<v Speaker 2>reported to the Kurpinski brigade headquarters to that woman. Yeah,

0:57:36.440 --> 0:57:38.600
<v Speaker 2>and there was a new policy issued in October that

0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:43.000
<v Speaker 2>was directly from this Miller visit. So then Major General

0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Donald J. Rider, he's an Army Provost Marshall. He assesses

0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:51.560
<v Speaker 2>detention and corrections operations in Iraq. So all these other

0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.480
<v Speaker 2>battalions take over. There's just a lot of like power exchanging,

0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:58.520
<v Speaker 2>and no one actually knows what's going on, and everyone's

0:57:58.560 --> 0:58:01.240
<v Speaker 2>just fighting over a control over these tiers, Tiers one

0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.080
<v Speaker 2>A and one B, and everyone wants.

0:58:02.840 --> 0:58:05.120
<v Speaker 1>At it, okay, because these probably have the guys that

0:58:05.160 --> 0:58:08.480
<v Speaker 1>are like the most involved and like probably the most

0:58:08.520 --> 0:58:11.720
<v Speaker 1>likely to have like high level information and stuff. And

0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that's the thing.

0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:14.760
<v Speaker 2>So these military guys are really just playing role playing games,

0:58:14.840 --> 0:58:16.080
<v Speaker 2>like Jared, does you know what I mean?

0:58:16.200 --> 0:58:18.560
<v Speaker 1>And it's like, why it would just.

0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Be more fun if they found dungeons and dragons instead

0:58:21.160 --> 0:58:22.000
<v Speaker 2>of the military.

0:58:22.200 --> 0:58:23.960
<v Speaker 3>It would have just been better for society.

0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I just hate that these people's like fun in games

0:58:27.840 --> 0:58:29.280
<v Speaker 2>is true murder and torture.

0:58:29.480 --> 0:58:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I just I don't understand it.

0:58:31.560 --> 0:58:34.480
<v Speaker 2>But so some of the things that were found that

0:58:34.640 --> 0:58:37.360
<v Speaker 2>was happening with all of this was they were breaking

0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:42.240
<v Speaker 2>chemical lights and pouring phosphoric liquids on detainees. They were

0:58:42.240 --> 0:58:46.200
<v Speaker 2>pouring cold water on naked detainees. They were taking away

0:58:46.240 --> 0:58:50.280
<v Speaker 2>their mattresses, sheets, clothing, beating people with broom handles and chairs,

0:58:50.360 --> 0:58:54.000
<v Speaker 2>threatening rape, letting a loose police guard, stitch up an

0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:58.480
<v Speaker 2>injured person who was slammed against a wall, sodomizing people

0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:03.240
<v Speaker 2>with chemical lights and broomstick, using military working dogs as

0:59:03.280 --> 0:59:06.480
<v Speaker 2>psychological torture, like the threat and fear of the dogs

0:59:06.600 --> 0:59:10.120
<v Speaker 2>was like really fucking people up. Also releasing the dogs

0:59:10.160 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 2>into rooms of people, So that's super bad, like turning

0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:18.040
<v Speaker 2>dogs against prisoners of war. And a retired major who's

0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:22.920
<v Speaker 2>the commandment commandant? So this retired is that what it is?

0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Jesus Christ? Okay, So a retired major who is the commandant?

0:59:30.400 --> 0:59:33.440
<v Speaker 2>They're retired. Maybe I shouldn't read The New Yorker anymore,

0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know if I can handle these words.

0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:37.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I have to cancel them. Where

0:59:37.680 --> 0:59:42.400
<v Speaker 2>the fuck's my tope bag? Okay, a retired major. Basically

0:59:42.440 --> 0:59:47.040
<v Speaker 2>he's the commandant of the Army's Military Police School, and

0:59:47.160 --> 0:59:50.200
<v Speaker 2>during his twenty eight year career, he said that this

0:59:50.360 --> 0:59:53.040
<v Speaker 2>is so fucked up and this would never be tolerated.

0:59:53.600 --> 0:59:55.400
<v Speaker 2>So this is a guy who's been working in like

0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:59.200
<v Speaker 2>the army military for twenty eight years. He's seen some

0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:02.520
<v Speaker 2>bad stuff, and for him to say like, oh, I've

1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:03.800
<v Speaker 2>never seen anything.

1:00:03.520 --> 1:00:05.400
<v Speaker 3>Like this, that's not really good.

1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:08.880
<v Speaker 2>And then obviously, you know, one of the famous photos

1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:10.920
<v Speaker 2>we all probably know is the hooded photos, and it's

1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:12.560
<v Speaker 2>a man on a box and if he fell off

1:00:12.560 --> 1:00:14.720
<v Speaker 2>the box, he was told he would be electrocuted.

1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:17.959
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Also, Abu Grab was filled beyond capacity and the guard

1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.720
<v Speaker 2>force was like super undermanned and really short of resources.

1:00:25.160 --> 1:00:27.920
<v Speaker 2>There was a large discrepancy between the actual number of

1:00:27.920 --> 1:00:31.680
<v Speaker 2>prisoners and the number of like officially recorded people, and

1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:34.440
<v Speaker 2>because of this, there was lack of proper screening. So

1:00:34.640 --> 1:00:37.160
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of innocent Iraqis were just chilling in there

1:00:37.520 --> 1:00:41.800
<v Speaker 2>and no one was like organizing people in any good way.

1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:45.200
<v Speaker 2>So this big report, it was called the Tabuga Report,

1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:47.439
<v Speaker 2>and it was for the name of the hotshot military guy,

1:00:47.480 --> 1:00:49.840
<v Speaker 2>and he said that Janis was just never around these

1:00:49.880 --> 1:00:51.880
<v Speaker 2>prisons that she was supposed to be running at all,

1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:53.720
<v Speaker 2>and that kind of led to a lot of the chaos.

1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:56.400
<v Speaker 2>But then he also called her emotional and now I'm like,

1:00:56.440 --> 1:01:01.240
<v Speaker 2>go fuck yourself, how dare you? But he was just

1:01:01.280 --> 1:01:03.000
<v Speaker 2>really annoyed with her that she would not admit to

1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:05.600
<v Speaker 2>the lack of leadership and that that led to a

1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>lot of these problems. So she was annoying, but you know,

1:01:09.960 --> 1:01:12.800
<v Speaker 2>don't call her emotional. There was a ton of evidence

1:01:12.840 --> 1:01:15.760
<v Speaker 2>to support all of these allegations, and obviously, hello, there

1:01:15.800 --> 1:01:19.640
<v Speaker 2>was photographic evidence. You can't really escape that a photograph

1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:23.080
<v Speaker 2>what is a thousand words. So a lot of other

1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:26.960
<v Speaker 2>photos got major attention. They were like a gi taunting

1:01:27.040 --> 1:01:31.360
<v Speaker 2>naked Iraqi prisoners who were forced into humiliating poses. There's

1:01:31.440 --> 1:01:34.240
<v Speaker 2>the one of a private with a cigarette hanging from

1:01:34.280 --> 1:01:36.480
<v Speaker 2>her mouth doing a thumbs up while pointing to the

1:01:36.560 --> 1:01:39.800
<v Speaker 2>naked genitals of a detainee who's forced to masturbate with

1:01:39.840 --> 1:01:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a sam bag over his head.

1:01:41.680 --> 1:01:43.960
<v Speaker 1>There's one so there's someone with.

1:01:43.920 --> 1:01:46.960
<v Speaker 2>A bulcut like holding a leash, and then there's a

1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:50.040
<v Speaker 2>naked detainee on the ground like being leashed. And the

1:01:50.040 --> 1:01:53.240
<v Speaker 2>photos are really disturbing to look at. They do make

1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:59.560
<v Speaker 2>me really uncomfortable and upset because it's just people abusing

1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:03.520
<v Speaker 2>power authority. It's like the Stanford Experiment stuff where it's

1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:05.920
<v Speaker 2>like a true or Lord of the Flies, when like

1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:11.120
<v Speaker 2>disgusting bad behavior comes out of humans and it's just really,

1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:13.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I've really had some emotions looking at

1:02:13.320 --> 1:02:13.960
<v Speaker 2>these photos.

1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:16.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I remember, yeah, I thought I remember

1:02:16.560 --> 1:02:18.720
<v Speaker 1>looking seeing one where they were forced to do like

1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.200
<v Speaker 1>a pyramid naked or something. Yeah.

1:02:21.240 --> 1:02:24.000
<v Speaker 2>The pyramid one we will is definitely oh and you're

1:02:24.000 --> 1:02:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gonna get to it, okay. Yeah, that one is strange

1:02:26.600 --> 1:02:29.320
<v Speaker 2>because it's also like the glee and uncare, like these

1:02:29.400 --> 1:02:33.200
<v Speaker 2>soldiers are treating these people like not human beings at all.

1:02:33.760 --> 1:02:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's like it it makes you feel like they're children.

1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Like when you see a pyramid, You're like, oh, this

1:02:38.840 --> 1:02:40.680
<v Speaker 1>will be funny. Let's have them do a pyramid, like

1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:42.920
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. It's they are, That's the thing.

1:02:42.960 --> 1:02:44.960
<v Speaker 2>A bunch of them are what eighteen to twenty two

1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:49.760
<v Speaker 2>year olds, right like the military. Yeah, and the person

1:02:49.800 --> 1:02:56.000
<v Speaker 2>that was holding the leash is an Army PFC Lyndy R.

1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:58.920
<v Speaker 2>England and she was eventually charged with thirteen counts of

1:02:58.960 --> 1:03:01.680
<v Speaker 2>misconduct in the case, but she said that she was

1:03:01.760 --> 1:03:04.800
<v Speaker 2>told to take pictures by her superior so the photos

1:03:04.800 --> 1:03:07.680
<v Speaker 2>could be used to frighten and demoralize other prisoners.

1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:09.760
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know.

1:03:09.880 --> 1:03:11.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the whole thing with military and cops stuff,

1:03:11.880 --> 1:03:14.640
<v Speaker 2>where it's like I gotta follow orders, so you know,

1:03:15.760 --> 1:03:16.120
<v Speaker 2>it's real.

1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:18.440
<v Speaker 1>That's why they don't want you going to school. They

1:03:18.480 --> 1:03:21.560
<v Speaker 1>want you to fucking join in. Uh.

1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:23.880
<v Speaker 2>There is one photo where two of the soldiers are

1:03:24.000 --> 1:03:26.080
<v Speaker 2>arm in arm thumbs up, and behind them is the

1:03:26.080 --> 1:03:28.920
<v Speaker 2>group of the seven naked iraqis forced into a pyramid,

1:03:28.960 --> 1:03:33.600
<v Speaker 2>and that one was definitely very well known, and they

1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:35.480
<v Speaker 2>would pose the naked men so it look like they

1:03:35.480 --> 1:03:37.000
<v Speaker 2>were sucking each other's dicks.

1:03:38.280 --> 1:03:39.520
<v Speaker 1>There's also they found.

1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:43.080
<v Speaker 2>A room that was just splattered with blood, so then

1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:46.040
<v Speaker 2>there was like a bloodied body wrapped in cellophane and

1:03:46.120 --> 1:03:49.960
<v Speaker 2>packed in ice that was just like lying around that

1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:53.280
<v Speaker 2>no one was taking care of post death in any way,

1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:56.440
<v Speaker 2>just like a fucking dead body and ice. So the

1:03:56.520 --> 1:03:59.280
<v Speaker 2>vibe seems like that was all routine and this wasn't

1:03:59.360 --> 1:04:01.600
<v Speaker 2>just a one night thing for like a soldier's birthday

1:04:01.600 --> 1:04:03.200
<v Speaker 2>party and they got drunk and put them all in

1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:06.200
<v Speaker 2>a naked pyramid. You know, this was how they treated

1:04:06.240 --> 1:04:10.439
<v Speaker 2>prisoners pretty often. And you know, other stuff went down,

1:04:10.520 --> 1:04:14.680
<v Speaker 2>punching slapping, kicking, jumping on their naked feet. And it

1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:18.040
<v Speaker 2>says a male MP guard was having sex with a

1:04:18.040 --> 1:04:19.400
<v Speaker 2>female detainee.

1:04:19.720 --> 1:04:20.720
<v Speaker 3>But that's rape.

1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:24.520
<v Speaker 2>So it's weird that CNN would write sex Army police

1:04:24.560 --> 1:04:26.040
<v Speaker 2>for raping prisoners.

1:04:26.880 --> 1:04:29.680
<v Speaker 1>This one guy, yes, CNN, this one guy.

1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Sergeant Frederick once punched a detainee in the chest so

1:04:33.200 --> 1:04:37.760
<v Speaker 2>hard that the detainee almost went into cardiac arrest. And

1:04:37.800 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 2>then in November there was some escapees and commotion around town.

1:04:42.320 --> 1:04:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Two weeks after that, a man named Colonel Thomas and poppus.

1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:50.400
<v Speaker 2>He then became like the commander of Abu Grabe and

1:04:50.560 --> 1:04:54.720
<v Speaker 2>he made the military intelligence responsible for the military police

1:04:54.960 --> 1:04:59.680
<v Speaker 2>units conducting detainee operations. And then November twenty fourth there's

1:04:59.680 --> 1:05:02.680
<v Speaker 2>a ride and shooting of twelve detainees and there was

1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:05.840
<v Speaker 2>three deaths and nine military police were also wounded.

1:05:05.920 --> 1:05:07.960
<v Speaker 3>But you know you wouin Semmu lose him.

1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:12.560
<v Speaker 2>So also in November a detainee dies during an interrogation,

1:05:13.120 --> 1:05:15.120
<v Speaker 2>and then December there's another shooting.

1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Like this is so much stuff.

1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:21.920
<v Speaker 2>So in January two thousand and four, there launches in

1:05:21.920 --> 1:05:25.160
<v Speaker 2>a giant army investigation into all the reports of abuse

1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that are happening.

1:05:26.080 --> 1:05:27.960
<v Speaker 1>And basically we find out.

1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:32.720
<v Speaker 2>That a sergeant Joseph Darby, he found it a real struggle.

1:05:32.800 --> 1:05:34.880
<v Speaker 3>It was scary for him. He didn't you know, he was.

1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Really conflicted, but he did report the abuse, and he

1:05:37.160 --> 1:05:39.920
<v Speaker 2>did it anonymously at first, and then it was all

1:05:39.920 --> 1:05:42.919
<v Speaker 2>figured out, so there was a whistleblower and then there

1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:47.280
<v Speaker 2>was like a giant, giant investigation that happened, and he

1:05:47.400 --> 1:05:51.440
<v Speaker 2>found a cd ROM of Iraqi prisoners being abused. And

1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:54.479
<v Speaker 2>I know that's a serious statement, but saying cd RAM,

1:05:54.800 --> 1:05:56.960
<v Speaker 2>that's the first time I've said that in fifteen years.

1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I miss the disc though. I like feeling like Sandra

1:06:01.920 --> 1:06:02.760
<v Speaker 2>Bullock in the net.

1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:04.920
<v Speaker 1>You know. I loved putting a little disk in the

1:06:05.000 --> 1:06:08.919
<v Speaker 1>laptop and printing it out fast. I like, yeah, yeah,

1:06:09.040 --> 1:06:10.600
<v Speaker 1>making burning CDs.

1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:12.680
<v Speaker 3>I liked that too. I still have all my CDs,

1:06:14.600 --> 1:06:15.600
<v Speaker 3>but I have them.

1:06:15.560 --> 1:06:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Of course you do. Now it's just chords everywhere. Mac

1:06:19.760 --> 1:06:24.640
<v Speaker 1>keeps taking away holes constantly, like toggles all the time.

1:06:24.840 --> 1:06:30.080
<v Speaker 1>It's just like dongle, doggles, dingles, dingles.

1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so right away, Philibaum, this guy is suspended as commander,

1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:39.320
<v Speaker 2>and like mentioned earlier, Karpinski is given a memorandum of

1:06:39.360 --> 1:06:42.240
<v Speaker 2>admonishment and some guy we haven't really talked about, but

1:06:42.320 --> 1:06:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Captain Donald J. Reese is suspended and he was the

1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:48.360
<v Speaker 2>commander of the three hundred and seventy second little group.

1:06:49.800 --> 1:06:52.479
<v Speaker 2>There was an Article thirty two hearing, whatever the fuck

1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:55.120
<v Speaker 2>that is. No, it's a hearing to get evidence and

1:06:55.200 --> 1:06:57.960
<v Speaker 2>witnesses to talk, but most of them invoke their Fifth

1:06:58.000 --> 1:07:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Amendment rights. One of the mill Terry defense attorneys was like, hey,

1:07:01.880 --> 1:07:04.200
<v Speaker 2>they were carrying out orders from their bosses. You really

1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:07.160
<v Speaker 2>think a group of kids from rural Virginia decided to

1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:08.160
<v Speaker 2>do this on their own?

1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:10.919
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, yes, I know, what are you at?

1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:12.160
<v Speaker 3>Definitely see that.

1:07:12.920 --> 1:07:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hazing's a thing like people do wild stuff as teens.

1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:20.000
<v Speaker 1>But you know, we obviously don't believe this, but this

1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:22.000
<v Speaker 1>is a good legal trick of course, Like you would

1:07:22.000 --> 1:07:24.880
<v Speaker 1>want this to be your lawyer. And the defense attorney

1:07:24.920 --> 1:07:29.000
<v Speaker 1>for Frederick, Captain Robert Schuck, is like, okay, I mean

1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:31.600
<v Speaker 1>the army is attempting to have six soldiers atoned for

1:07:31.680 --> 1:07:33.840
<v Speaker 1>its sins. Like come on, bro, you think these fucking

1:07:33.880 --> 1:07:38.280
<v Speaker 1>idiots were masterminds, but the photos just like you're bad people,

1:07:38.360 --> 1:07:41.840
<v Speaker 1>You're smiling. You're not, you're smiling with your thumbs up,

1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:45.120
<v Speaker 1>like there's I just can't imagine. I don't know any

1:07:45.160 --> 1:07:47.240
<v Speaker 1>of these people, but I can't imagine this woman that's

1:07:47.240 --> 1:07:49.720
<v Speaker 1>barely at the jail is like strip them naked, pile

1:07:49.800 --> 1:07:52.520
<v Speaker 1>them up, take pics. Like I just don't see that happening.

1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:56.320
<v Speaker 1>I could see them her saying, just get the information,

1:07:56.400 --> 1:08:01.600
<v Speaker 1>do whatever you have to do. Yeah, you know. Yeah.

1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:04.640
<v Speaker 2>And so this Frederick guy, and you know, he seemed

1:08:04.640 --> 1:08:07.280
<v Speaker 2>to cause a lot of issues inside, but he said

1:08:07.320 --> 1:08:11.160
<v Speaker 2>that the military intelligence teams, which included CIA officers and

1:08:11.240 --> 1:08:16.160
<v Speaker 2>linguists and interrogation specialists from private defense contractors, were the

1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:20.679
<v Speaker 2>dominant force inside ABU GRAB. So he's passing the buck

1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:23.519
<v Speaker 2>onto these secret private defense contractors, which I kind of

1:08:23.520 --> 1:08:26.160
<v Speaker 2>believe too. I'm sure they were involved. I don't understand

1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:28.720
<v Speaker 2>how that's even legal. I don't understand how you have

1:08:28.800 --> 1:08:33.200
<v Speaker 2>private defense companies. It is so strange to me. So

1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:36.240
<v Speaker 2>now this is where we join the SV world finally, Okay,

1:08:36.560 --> 1:08:40.959
<v Speaker 2>with the private defense contractors. So Frederick said that military

1:08:41.000 --> 1:08:44.960
<v Speaker 2>intelligence officers or they're called m's were encouraging them and

1:08:45.000 --> 1:08:48.479
<v Speaker 2>saying great job. So then there's a man named Eric Fair.

1:08:48.600 --> 1:08:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Are we all paying attention? Please do not leave a

1:08:51.200 --> 1:08:53.679
<v Speaker 2>bad review. I am trying my best. So a man

1:08:55.120 --> 1:08:58.559
<v Speaker 2>named Eric Fair was an interrogator at Abu Grab and

1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:02.559
<v Speaker 2>he wrote a memoir Consequence, and he said that he

1:09:04.320 --> 1:09:07.160
<v Speaker 2>what he did as an interrogator at Abu Grab was torture.

1:09:07.880 --> 1:09:10.479
<v Speaker 2>He straight up was like I was committing torture there.

1:09:11.160 --> 1:09:14.439
<v Speaker 2>He said, there's no such thing as enhanced interrogation or

1:09:14.479 --> 1:09:18.160
<v Speaker 2>torture light that it just means torture. He said he

1:09:18.280 --> 1:09:21.599
<v Speaker 2>practiced techniques that were considered legal by the US government,

1:09:21.760 --> 1:09:24.120
<v Speaker 2>but that it still really weighs on his conscience.

1:09:24.920 --> 1:09:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Did I say conscience right? Mm hmm, okay, great.

1:09:28.640 --> 1:09:32.960
<v Speaker 2>He said he used stress positions and sleep deprivation and

1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:36.080
<v Speaker 2>stress positions are meant to exhaust someone, so like hold

1:09:36.080 --> 1:09:38.439
<v Speaker 2>these books with your arms out to your sides and

1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:39.520
<v Speaker 2>then you achieve.

1:09:39.320 --> 1:09:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Like muscle failure. For these people, and they.

1:09:41.520 --> 1:09:44.120
<v Speaker 2>Would handcuff them to sell walls in a position where

1:09:44.160 --> 1:09:47.040
<v Speaker 2>their hands were placed down between their legs and then

1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:50.240
<v Speaker 2>their hands were handcuffed behind back, behind them, so like

1:09:50.320 --> 1:09:53.200
<v Speaker 2>you can you can't sit down or rest. So there

1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:56.959
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of forced standing, no sleep, arrest and that's.

1:09:56.800 --> 1:09:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Like to shock the system.

1:09:58.800 --> 1:10:02.760
<v Speaker 2>And this guy he admits to not only hurting people physically,

1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:06.600
<v Speaker 2>but that they destroyed people emotionally. So Eric Fair was

1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:08.920
<v Speaker 2>someone that served in the military and was a police

1:10:08.960 --> 1:10:11.920
<v Speaker 2>officer and then was employed by a private company under

1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:14.760
<v Speaker 2>contract to the military, so he kind of has perspectives

1:10:14.800 --> 1:10:18.000
<v Speaker 2>of all the different units going into play, and he

1:10:18.120 --> 1:10:21.040
<v Speaker 2>confessed to all of this stuff. Another connection to the

1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:23.879
<v Speaker 2>SVU episode is that a man died in their custody

1:10:23.880 --> 1:10:26.240
<v Speaker 2>in November two thousand and three from stressing him out

1:10:26.280 --> 1:10:29.280
<v Speaker 2>so bad under questioning, and this is, yeah, this is

1:10:29.280 --> 1:10:31.599
<v Speaker 2>the person. They put his body in a body bag,

1:10:31.640 --> 1:10:33.720
<v Speaker 2>packed him in ice for like twenty four hours in

1:10:33.760 --> 1:10:37.240
<v Speaker 2>the shower. But it's like, they don't have respect for

1:10:37.280 --> 1:10:39.160
<v Speaker 2>these people alive, so why would they have respect for

1:10:39.200 --> 1:10:43.120
<v Speaker 2>these people while they're dead. The next day, medics came

1:10:43.120 --> 1:10:45.280
<v Speaker 2>and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake

1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:48.960
<v Speaker 2>IV in his arm, and took him away. This dead

1:10:49.000 --> 1:10:51.920
<v Speaker 2>man was never entered into the prison's innate control system,

1:10:52.240 --> 1:10:55.160
<v Speaker 2>so it could have been an innocent person. So, like

1:10:55.240 --> 1:10:58.320
<v Speaker 2>I mentioned in January, there was that complaint that happened,

1:10:59.040 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 2>and then the report and investigation that happened was the

1:11:02.240 --> 1:11:07.639
<v Speaker 2>Major General Antonio M. Taguba and this formal investigation that

1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:10.840
<v Speaker 2>was done on March third, two thousand and four, and

1:11:10.880 --> 1:11:14.280
<v Speaker 2>then March twentieth, charges were filed against six soldiers and

1:11:14.320 --> 1:11:17.080
<v Speaker 2>we talked about that hearing earlier with Franklin and the crew.

1:11:17.240 --> 1:11:19.800
<v Speaker 3>But so there were six soldiers there and.

1:11:19.840 --> 1:11:22.880
<v Speaker 2>General Taguba, even though he was pissed at the people

1:11:22.920 --> 1:11:25.479
<v Speaker 2>acting out orders, he did have the harshest words to

1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:27.720
<v Speaker 2>the MII officers and private contractors.

1:11:28.560 --> 1:11:29.639
<v Speaker 3>He was like, fuck all.

1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Of you, and you should have all been reprimanded and

1:11:31.720 --> 1:11:34.439
<v Speaker 2>relieved of duties and go fuck yourself for ordering military

1:11:34.479 --> 1:11:38.440
<v Speaker 2>policemen who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate

1:11:38.479 --> 1:11:41.840
<v Speaker 2>interrogations by setting up conditions that were not authorized and

1:11:41.920 --> 1:11:44.000
<v Speaker 2>not in accordance with army regulations.

1:11:44.880 --> 1:11:45.320
<v Speaker 3>Bitch.

1:11:46.520 --> 1:11:50.800
<v Speaker 2>So the story breaks on CBS's sixty Minutes too and

1:11:50.920 --> 1:11:54.320
<v Speaker 2>shows photos of the prisoner abuse at Abu Gray Prison.

1:11:54.040 --> 1:11:56.000
<v Speaker 1>And that's like that was the biggest thing.

1:11:56.040 --> 1:11:59.479
<v Speaker 2>So after the story broke on CBS, the Pentagon announced

1:11:59.520 --> 1:12:03.720
<v Speaker 2>some guy, Major General Jeoffrey Miller, will be the new

1:12:03.760 --> 1:12:05.920
<v Speaker 2>head of the Iraqi prison system, and it's like just.

1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:07.719
<v Speaker 1>Don't have a prison there. It doesn't see, it doesn't

1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:10.000
<v Speaker 1>matter who's in charge. It seems like you're all fucking

1:12:10.000 --> 1:12:11.240
<v Speaker 1>failing and pieces of shit.

1:12:11.600 --> 1:12:15.120
<v Speaker 2>And he was the commander at Guantanamo's Bay Detention Center, which,

1:12:15.200 --> 1:12:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like I said earlier, are two different things.

1:12:17.479 --> 1:12:19.639
<v Speaker 3>Who knew I think a lot of people.

1:12:19.920 --> 1:12:23.280
<v Speaker 2>So then again international attention and anger, and President Bush

1:12:23.400 --> 1:12:25.599
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, come on, bro, these are the actions

1:12:25.600 --> 1:12:27.519
<v Speaker 2>of a few. They don't reflect all of us or

1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:30.080
<v Speaker 2>the conduct of the military as a whole. And it's

1:12:30.160 --> 1:12:32.840
<v Speaker 2>like this excuses always used, and it is never trap.

1:12:33.840 --> 1:12:37.479
<v Speaker 2>It's never true. But you know, it's like high levels

1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:40.000
<v Speaker 2>of leadership did nothing and they all failed, and then

1:12:40.080 --> 1:12:43.400
<v Speaker 2>all the like poor lower class people got in trouble.

1:12:44.040 --> 1:12:49.160
<v Speaker 2>So Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, he testified at a congressional hearing

1:12:49.680 --> 1:12:52.160
<v Speaker 2>on prison abuse in May of two thousand and four,

1:12:52.240 --> 1:12:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and then a seventh soldier was charged. So he said

1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:57.560
<v Speaker 2>that the Pentagon said that everything was complying with the

1:12:57.600 --> 1:13:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Geneva Conventions. So that's that Abu Grabe was a place

1:13:00.960 --> 1:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>where the Geneva Conventions were routinely violated, though, and the

1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:06.519
<v Speaker 2>day to day management of the prisoners were relinquished to

1:13:06.640 --> 1:13:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Army military intelligence units and civilian contract employees, and that

1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:15.200
<v Speaker 2>interrogating prisoners and getting intelligence was the top priority of

1:13:15.200 --> 1:13:18.519
<v Speaker 2>that place, and that included intimidation and torture. So I

1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:21.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know if he's committing perjury or if they're all lying,

1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:22.560
<v Speaker 2>or what happens.

1:13:22.720 --> 1:13:24.000
<v Speaker 1>It's just it's too much.

1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:26.840
<v Speaker 2>So Rumsfeld, after this, he goes and visits the jail,

1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:29.519
<v Speaker 2>and then he goes, oh, yeah, these people will be punished,

1:13:29.560 --> 1:13:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and all these soldiers will get punished, So Grain or

1:13:32.479 --> 1:13:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Frederick Davis, they all get in trouble. Specialist Jeremy C.

1:13:36.840 --> 1:13:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Sivets is sentenced to one year in prison for his

1:13:39.479 --> 1:13:42.080
<v Speaker 2>role in abusing Iraqis. At the prison, he pled guilty

1:13:42.120 --> 1:13:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and agreed to testify against six other accused Americans. This guy,

1:13:46.360 --> 1:13:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Willie Jay Rowell, he served for thirty six years as

1:13:50.160 --> 1:13:53.320
<v Speaker 2>a CID agent, said that using force or humiliation is

1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:57.240
<v Speaker 2>actually counterintuitive, okay, Stabler, because these people will tell you

1:13:57.280 --> 1:13:59.439
<v Speaker 2>what you want to hear, truth or no truth. So

1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:01.240
<v Speaker 2>if you're beating the shit out of someone, you're not

1:14:01.280 --> 1:14:04.320
<v Speaker 2>getting righteous information. You know, they're just trying to stop

1:14:04.360 --> 1:14:07.040
<v Speaker 2>the torture, So it doesn't actually work.

1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:07.639
<v Speaker 3>So what the fuck.

1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:10.360
<v Speaker 2>It also is fucked because they had civilians in there

1:14:10.360 --> 1:14:13.120
<v Speaker 2>forever without charges being brought to them, so they couldn't

1:14:13.120 --> 1:14:16.040
<v Speaker 2>appeal or do anything because they were in there for nothing,

1:14:17.000 --> 1:14:19.679
<v Speaker 2>and which is very very American and obviously our current

1:14:19.720 --> 1:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>bail system what's happening in Rikers and everything is very

1:14:23.800 --> 1:14:27.000
<v Speaker 2>much that. So it's innocent people should not be sitting

1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>in jail. Sorry, is that controversial?

1:14:29.840 --> 1:14:34.639
<v Speaker 1>No? No great, no cost sign cost sign. I'm almost done, okay.

1:14:35.120 --> 1:14:37.360
<v Speaker 2>So May twenty first, two thousand and four, is when

1:14:37.360 --> 1:14:41.080
<v Speaker 2>the US releases four hundred and fifty four detainees from

1:14:41.160 --> 1:14:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Abu Gray Prison. On the twenty fourth, another twenty fourth

1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:47.360
<v Speaker 2>prisoners leave, and I wonder if everyone around the office

1:14:47.479 --> 1:14:50.200
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh my god, twenty four people on the

1:14:50.200 --> 1:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty fourth, or if they didn't pay attention. But I'm

1:14:54.040 --> 1:14:57.439
<v Speaker 2>sure someone had to mention it in the office, right, Okay,

1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:00.559
<v Speaker 2>so that more people plead guilty, you know, Rick pleads

1:15:00.560 --> 1:15:03.920
<v Speaker 2>guilty to charges of abuse. An Army g guy named

1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Arman J. Cruz Junior pleads guilty. Just everyone from this

1:15:07.320 --> 1:15:10.040
<v Speaker 2>three hundred and seventy second group, they all did stuff,

1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:14.040
<v Speaker 2>and they all they all pled guilty, and I can't

1:15:14.080 --> 1:15:16.320
<v Speaker 2>name every soldier that got in trouble. You can tell

1:15:16.360 --> 1:15:19.599
<v Speaker 2>that this case has broken me, but just know there's

1:15:19.640 --> 1:15:20.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of them.

1:15:20.560 --> 1:15:23.160
<v Speaker 1>So Rumsfeld, our guy Rumsfeld.

1:15:23.200 --> 1:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>He went on Larry King in February two thousand and five,

1:15:26.520 --> 1:15:29.120
<v Speaker 2>and he says he would have offered to resign, but

1:15:29.200 --> 1:15:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Bush asked him to stay best friends forever.

1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Rumsfeld and Bush definitely have a little necklace that's a

1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:40.639
<v Speaker 1>heart broken in half, and they each wear one.

1:15:41.600 --> 1:15:44.639
<v Speaker 2>Taguba, who like broke this story is not regarded as

1:15:44.640 --> 1:15:47.320
<v Speaker 2>a hero in some circles in the Pentagon, but go

1:15:47.400 --> 1:15:50.599
<v Speaker 2>fuck them. And they don't like when their shit goes public.

1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:53.200
<v Speaker 2>But you did something bad and we deserve to fucking

1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>know that. Why won't this story end? So September one,

1:15:58.360 --> 1:16:00.799
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and six, control of Abu Grabe is handed

1:16:00.840 --> 1:16:04.120
<v Speaker 2>over to the Iraqis, and then two thousand and eight,

1:16:04.160 --> 1:16:08.960
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of former detainees file a lawsuit against CACI

1:16:09.160 --> 1:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Premier Technology, the contractor that's supplied the army with interrogators.

1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Two thousand and nine, it reopens after major renovations, which

1:16:18.479 --> 1:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>include a new gym and barber shop and so, but

1:16:22.280 --> 1:16:24.519
<v Speaker 2>that just might be pr for the jail. It's now

1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a Bagdad Central Prison and I don't know if yeah,

1:16:28.040 --> 1:16:32.439
<v Speaker 2>but there's a gym. And then in twenty fourteen the

1:16:32.479 --> 1:16:36.240
<v Speaker 2>prison is closed for security reasons and I'm done.

1:16:36.880 --> 1:16:39.080
<v Speaker 3>Not another word. Let's go to the interview.

1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for doing all that work, Lisa. It was

1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:46.760
<v Speaker 1>worth it. And I knew a little bit about Abu Grabe.

1:16:46.800 --> 1:16:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Now I know a lot and our guest is worth

1:16:50.040 --> 1:17:03.599
<v Speaker 1>the wait, So stick around. Okay, guys, our guest today

1:17:03.920 --> 1:17:08.040
<v Speaker 1>has perfected the role of handsome asshole. You might recognize

1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:11.320
<v Speaker 1>him from TV shows like Wings and Chicago med or

1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:14.639
<v Speaker 1>as Jack Torrens from the TV mini series of Stephen

1:17:14.720 --> 1:17:17.240
<v Speaker 1>King's The Shining, but you know him today as the

1:17:17.280 --> 1:17:21.240
<v Speaker 1>smarmi attorney named Matthew Brayden. Guys, please check out our

1:17:21.600 --> 1:17:26.479
<v Speaker 1>I think life changing chat with Stephen Weber. Stephen Webber

1:17:26.960 --> 1:17:30.280
<v Speaker 1>so excited. You're a GAT. You're a true GAT. We

1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:34.360
<v Speaker 1>were very mind when you agree. Yes, we were literally

1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>like our thumbs were cramping scrolling your IMDb.

1:17:38.520 --> 1:17:40.960
<v Speaker 3>You have been working and working.

1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>You are a worker.

1:17:42.640 --> 1:17:46.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm at the get portion of my career, which is

1:17:46.800 --> 1:17:52.200
<v Speaker 4>as your as the sun is setting. Then you get mercy. Mercy,

1:17:52.240 --> 1:17:55.800
<v Speaker 4>little gigs and it's really sweet because if I was

1:17:55.800 --> 1:17:58.400
<v Speaker 4>at the height, I would not be sitting here with you.

1:17:59.600 --> 1:18:02.200
<v Speaker 4>When you are at your height, because you're on the

1:18:02.200 --> 1:18:04.920
<v Speaker 4>way up, you will not be sitting here with the

1:18:05.080 --> 1:18:06.080
<v Speaker 4>likes of me and.

1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:11.160
<v Speaker 1>Death lesson number one ladies. So you're saying back in

1:18:11.200 --> 1:18:13.280
<v Speaker 1>your Wings days, you wouldn't even given us the time

1:18:13.320 --> 1:18:14.559
<v Speaker 1>of day, like this would be.

1:18:14.880 --> 1:18:18.000
<v Speaker 4>No Wings days. I wouldn't have gone online. Wait a second,

1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:18.920
<v Speaker 4>there was no one.

1:18:18.960 --> 1:18:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was no online. And we're assuming though you

1:18:23.120 --> 1:18:25.599
<v Speaker 1>did not audition for this, this was an offer only

1:18:25.840 --> 1:18:29.800
<v Speaker 1>correct for you. Yeah here, Yeah, that's for you.

1:18:30.280 --> 1:18:32.240
<v Speaker 4>Oh that's right, No, that's right, that's right. I forgot.

1:18:32.240 --> 1:18:34.320
<v Speaker 4>In fact, I went back and I and I watched

1:18:34.360 --> 1:18:36.280
<v Speaker 4>that episode. Okay, yeah, well.

1:18:36.200 --> 1:18:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I watched all of yours because I mean, this one's

1:18:38.240 --> 1:18:42.000
<v Speaker 2>very fun but then ludicrous and method man, that's pretty cool.

1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:44.360
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, how about that? And of course at the time,

1:18:44.360 --> 1:18:46.120
<v Speaker 4>I was like, who are these guys? Who are they?

1:18:46.160 --> 1:18:47.200
<v Speaker 4>Who are they?

1:18:48.160 --> 1:18:52.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, no idea, but this was exciting. So they

1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:55.000
<v Speaker 2>called you and they're like, we need you to at

1:18:55.240 --> 1:18:55.840
<v Speaker 2>that point.

1:18:55.920 --> 1:18:57.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I forget what year was, but I think it

1:18:57.840 --> 1:18:59.920
<v Speaker 4>was post Wings, So I had a kind of a

1:19:01.120 --> 1:19:05.840
<v Speaker 4>name that that was known, you know, a minor celebrity,

1:19:06.040 --> 1:19:08.040
<v Speaker 4>and so yeah, I mean I was a guest star

1:19:08.120 --> 1:19:11.800
<v Speaker 4>that they offered it to, and then I did it

1:19:11.840 --> 1:19:15.440
<v Speaker 4>and again rewatching it, I was kind of surprised at

1:19:16.760 --> 1:19:21.200
<v Speaker 4>how good I was, and because I don't like watching myself,

1:19:21.439 --> 1:19:24.320
<v Speaker 4>I was like, oh, okay, I kind of I did

1:19:24.360 --> 1:19:25.920
<v Speaker 4>it right, and everybody was good. I mean, it was

1:19:26.000 --> 1:19:30.040
<v Speaker 4>really well. It was an interesting episode, especially given that

1:19:30.160 --> 1:19:33.960
<v Speaker 4>the era and their their attempt to kind of go

1:19:34.160 --> 1:19:38.960
<v Speaker 4>on a fairly go deep on a fairly complex issue.

1:19:39.280 --> 1:19:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. No, for sure, I mean a lot like you know,

1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:44.559
<v Speaker 1>our podcast investigates like the true crimes that things are

1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:47.040
<v Speaker 1>based up, but when they tackle like a major political thing,

1:19:47.120 --> 1:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>it does feel like more ambitious. You know.

1:19:49.120 --> 1:19:51.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, we research the true crimes, and I think

1:19:51.479 --> 1:19:54.160
<v Speaker 2>researching Abu Gray really took a lot out of me.

1:19:54.960 --> 1:19:57.040
<v Speaker 2>I was like, that was so much reading. I haven't

1:19:57.040 --> 1:19:58.080
<v Speaker 2>read that much him forever.

1:20:00.240 --> 1:20:02.720
<v Speaker 1>But you you're like born and raised New York, right,

1:20:02.840 --> 1:20:05.200
<v Speaker 1>So were you like, oh, I'm finally doing law and Order.

1:20:05.360 --> 1:20:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Was it kind of like a box you had to

1:20:07.439 --> 1:20:08.360
<v Speaker 1>check off or what?

1:20:09.200 --> 1:20:12.160
<v Speaker 4>Well? Yeah, look, the thing about being a New York

1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:15.519
<v Speaker 4>actors that when there's you know, you have Broadway and

1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:19.160
<v Speaker 4>you have local productions, and you have the great you

1:20:19.160 --> 1:20:22.920
<v Speaker 4>know in the history especially of television, and so to

1:20:23.000 --> 1:20:26.920
<v Speaker 4>work in your hometown is really exciting and you know,

1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:29.519
<v Speaker 4>you feel like you're part of a community or the

1:20:30.120 --> 1:20:32.720
<v Speaker 4>canon of New York based productions. And yeah, and being

1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:37.840
<v Speaker 4>on Law and Order was a great box to check

1:20:37.880 --> 1:20:41.839
<v Speaker 4>off because there are so many great New York actors

1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:45.040
<v Speaker 4>that have worked on that show. It's like a it's

1:20:45.080 --> 1:20:48.280
<v Speaker 4>a it's the well from which that show draws its

1:20:48.600 --> 1:20:51.559
<v Speaker 4>its talent, you know, it's the pool. And just to

1:20:51.600 --> 1:20:52.519
<v Speaker 4>be part of that was great.

1:20:53.200 --> 1:20:55.200
<v Speaker 1>You shot on the courtroom steps.

1:20:56.040 --> 1:20:58.559
<v Speaker 2>How is it like shooting amongst you know, the people

1:20:58.600 --> 1:20:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of New York, the.

1:21:00.080 --> 1:21:01.000
<v Speaker 4>People of New York.

1:21:01.360 --> 1:21:04.559
<v Speaker 1>Uh they animals?

1:21:05.280 --> 1:21:08.200
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, they weren't. No. I think I think

1:21:08.520 --> 1:21:12.360
<v Speaker 4>it's as enjoyable to watch, for the most part, to

1:21:12.400 --> 1:21:14.640
<v Speaker 4>watch productions being filmed on the streets of New York

1:21:14.680 --> 1:21:20.280
<v Speaker 4>as it just to film them. And in a way, uh,

1:21:20.640 --> 1:21:24.519
<v Speaker 4>I feel like the New Yorkers are allowing you to

1:21:24.560 --> 1:21:27.719
<v Speaker 4>do it. And so uh even in the moment they're there,

1:21:27.760 --> 1:21:30.519
<v Speaker 4>they could heckle you, they could disrupt, they could kill you,

1:21:31.280 --> 1:21:33.800
<v Speaker 4>but they choose, they choose not to do any of

1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:37.479
<v Speaker 4>those things, and they kind of, you know, enjoy it.

1:21:37.680 --> 1:21:41.040
<v Speaker 4>And it's part of what makes New York really fun.

1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:43.720
<v Speaker 4>And it's it's part of what makes being a New

1:21:43.800 --> 1:21:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Yorker kind of cool, that that it's a it's a

1:21:46.720 --> 1:21:49.959
<v Speaker 4>place where people come to to shoot, you know, famous

1:21:50.000 --> 1:21:54.200
<v Speaker 4>and iconic stuff. Yeah, those those court those court steps

1:21:54.400 --> 1:21:57.720
<v Speaker 4>or courthouse steps are are iconic. You know, it's like

1:21:57.760 --> 1:22:03.719
<v Speaker 4>the It's the equivalent of the zebra crossing in Abbey Road,

1:22:03.800 --> 1:22:05.680
<v Speaker 4>you know, with the Beatles working out. You know, how

1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:09.040
<v Speaker 4>many people, how many people have recreated various law and

1:22:09.200 --> 1:22:12.479
<v Speaker 4>order descents and a sense of those steps.

1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:22:13.640 --> 1:22:15.840
<v Speaker 2>I recently took a picture in Central Park where a

1:22:15.880 --> 1:22:17.639
<v Speaker 2>lot of dead bodies are found, and I did lay

1:22:17.640 --> 1:22:20.640
<v Speaker 2>down on the ground and then I was like, oh, fuck.

1:22:21.560 --> 1:22:25.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think we're done here today. Really great talking

1:22:26.000 --> 1:22:29.000
<v Speaker 4>to you? That's dark?

1:22:29.560 --> 1:22:32.120
<v Speaker 1>Can I ask because I looked up your Wikipedia and

1:22:32.160 --> 1:22:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I know Wikipedia is not always accurate, but it says

1:22:34.880 --> 1:22:37.880
<v Speaker 1>that your mom was a performer and your dad was

1:22:37.920 --> 1:22:42.040
<v Speaker 1>a manager of comedians. So were you like, I'm just like,

1:22:42.120 --> 1:22:44.400
<v Speaker 1>this is my only choice. I'm destined for this life,

1:22:44.479 --> 1:22:46.519
<v Speaker 1>or like what you know, because you went to the

1:22:46.560 --> 1:22:48.320
<v Speaker 1>high school performing arts, you must have known at a

1:22:48.320 --> 1:22:49.800
<v Speaker 1>young age this is like what you were going to do.

1:22:50.479 --> 1:22:56.120
<v Speaker 4>I guess I must have unconsciously, but it was never

1:22:56.280 --> 1:23:01.320
<v Speaker 4>anything that was declared out loud. You know. Another torture

1:23:01.520 --> 1:23:03.559
<v Speaker 4>metaphor analogy is that you know, I was on this

1:23:03.720 --> 1:23:08.000
<v Speaker 4>stream and I just was carried along by these currents,

1:23:08.040 --> 1:23:13.519
<v Speaker 4>and I just found myself doing this, gravitating towards it.

1:23:13.520 --> 1:23:16.439
<v Speaker 4>It wasn't a show business house, despite those kind of

1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:22.200
<v Speaker 4>bona fides. But yeah, my mom was a nightclub singer

1:23:22.200 --> 1:23:25.840
<v Speaker 4>in the fifties when it was really super cool, and

1:23:25.920 --> 1:23:30.680
<v Speaker 4>my dad was an agent and manager, and it was

1:23:30.880 --> 1:23:34.280
<v Speaker 4>less cool in some ways. It was like a lower

1:23:34.320 --> 1:23:37.680
<v Speaker 4>tier rat pack type of thing, not as low as

1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:42.559
<v Speaker 4>Broadway Danny Rose, but not as elevated as the rat pack,

1:23:42.680 --> 1:23:46.400
<v Speaker 4>somewhere somewhere in between. And it was very instructive and

1:23:48.200 --> 1:23:50.839
<v Speaker 4>not unattractive. I mean, it was really kind of compelling,

1:23:50.920 --> 1:23:54.439
<v Speaker 4>and so yeah, I guess I found myself in this area.

1:23:54.520 --> 1:23:57.639
<v Speaker 4>But it wasn't you know, foretold or preordained or any

1:23:57.640 --> 1:23:59.960
<v Speaker 4>of those things. Just kind of found myself doing it.

1:24:00.040 --> 1:24:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you ever run into people you went to high

1:24:02.520 --> 1:24:04.120
<v Speaker 2>school with on jobs?

1:24:05.360 --> 1:24:07.479
<v Speaker 4>Well, once in a while. You know, the thing about

1:24:07.520 --> 1:24:10.720
<v Speaker 4>going to acting school is that there's a huge attrition rate.

1:24:10.800 --> 1:24:13.960
<v Speaker 4>Even people who are incredibly talented. After a while get

1:24:14.000 --> 1:24:17.840
<v Speaker 4>buffeted and beaten up by the business or they just think,

1:24:17.960 --> 1:24:21.080
<v Speaker 4>you know what, I don't want to hear no a

1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:23.960
<v Speaker 4>billion times in a year. I really can't. I'm going

1:24:24.000 --> 1:24:27.760
<v Speaker 4>to find something that it makes me happier. Really, But

1:24:27.800 --> 1:24:31.479
<v Speaker 4>to answer your question, I do, and have over the years,

1:24:31.880 --> 1:24:34.439
<v Speaker 4>cross paths with people who I went to high school with.

1:24:36.479 --> 1:24:38.800
<v Speaker 4>You know who did I go to school with? I'm well,

1:24:38.880 --> 1:24:42.360
<v Speaker 4>like Wesley Snipes actually went to Performing Arts and Ving

1:24:42.479 --> 1:24:44.479
<v Speaker 4>Raims went to performing arts when he was just a

1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:48.400
<v Speaker 4>skinny guy. Yeah, the behemoth he is now. And so

1:24:48.479 --> 1:24:51.400
<v Speaker 4>once in a while I see those guys. And it

1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:53.200
<v Speaker 4>was really in college. I went to a place called

1:24:53.240 --> 1:24:56.519
<v Speaker 4>Sunny Purchase, Sunny being State University of New York, and

1:24:56.880 --> 1:25:00.920
<v Speaker 4>like Stanley Tucci went there, and Edie Falco and a

1:25:00.960 --> 1:25:03.240
<v Speaker 4>bunch of other great actors and directors. So once in

1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:06.559
<v Speaker 4>a while, you know, once in a while we cross paths.

1:25:06.560 --> 1:25:07.400
<v Speaker 4>It's pretty interesting.

1:25:07.760 --> 1:25:11.680
<v Speaker 1>That's great. Well, let's like, let's get into this episode.

1:25:11.680 --> 1:25:14.599
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad you just recently rewatched it, like tell us

1:25:14.640 --> 1:25:16.719
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more like this was a cool character.

1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:21.000
<v Speaker 1>You were this like kind of you know, handsome jerk

1:25:21.080 --> 1:25:24.200
<v Speaker 1>that comes in like he knows everything right. And then

1:25:24.520 --> 1:25:27.000
<v Speaker 1>you do three episodes and then I'm assuming your schedule

1:25:27.080 --> 1:25:28.880
<v Speaker 1>just got too busy because you seem like someone they

1:25:28.880 --> 1:25:31.120
<v Speaker 1>would have called back for like more episodes. And now

1:25:31.120 --> 1:25:33.479
<v Speaker 1>you're back in the Dick Wolf universe on Chicago med.

1:25:33.640 --> 1:25:36.599
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I'm from Skokie. I don't know if

1:25:36.600 --> 1:25:37.639
<v Speaker 1>you ventured up north.

1:25:38.280 --> 1:25:39.639
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, not yet, not yet.

1:25:39.640 --> 1:25:43.240
<v Speaker 1>I haven't good beta in If you want some Faloffel.

1:25:43.080 --> 1:25:49.400
<v Speaker 4>All right, I'm there, I'll go tonight. Well, yeah I did.

1:25:49.479 --> 1:25:52.920
<v Speaker 4>I was on that show three times, that's right. I

1:25:53.200 --> 1:25:55.200
<v Speaker 4>think it was an interesting character and a character that

1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:58.680
<v Speaker 4>I've I've played a lot, you know, kind of the

1:25:58.960 --> 1:26:04.200
<v Speaker 4>the the jerk, the you know, authoritarian douchebag, and I

1:26:04.280 --> 1:26:07.200
<v Speaker 4>played him a lot. But as I say, when revisiting

1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:11.360
<v Speaker 4>that particular episode, I was taken with kind of how

1:26:11.640 --> 1:26:15.040
<v Speaker 4>slick and well written the character was, and also that

1:26:15.120 --> 1:26:19.760
<v Speaker 4>I did a decent job, and as did everybody. You know,

1:26:20.240 --> 1:26:23.200
<v Speaker 4>it's such a It's such a good kind of economic show.

1:26:23.280 --> 1:26:25.479
<v Speaker 4>I mean, they know exactly what to do, how to

1:26:25.560 --> 1:26:29.080
<v Speaker 4>do it, They hit all the right notes, and it's

1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:33.559
<v Speaker 4>so such a compelling formula. I think I think they

1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:36.320
<v Speaker 4>brought me back as many times as a character as

1:26:36.360 --> 1:26:38.759
<v Speaker 4>a guest character gets brought back. I mean, I'm sure

1:26:38.520 --> 1:26:41.160
<v Speaker 4>there are exceptions to that rule, but threes three is

1:26:41.240 --> 1:26:41.760
<v Speaker 4>pretty good.

1:26:42.040 --> 1:26:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you could come back anytime.

1:26:44.040 --> 1:26:46.720
<v Speaker 4>Well, maybe it'd be great, be hilarious if I came

1:26:46.760 --> 1:26:50.280
<v Speaker 4>back as that character, even though I'm in the Wolf universe. Now,

1:26:50.680 --> 1:26:53.400
<v Speaker 4>what if I played that guy, you know, and still

1:26:53.439 --> 1:26:55.160
<v Speaker 4>played the guy on on Chicago Med?

1:26:55.200 --> 1:26:57.439
<v Speaker 1>Why not on Chicago Met? Are you a doctor?

1:26:57.479 --> 1:26:59.280
<v Speaker 3>What are what is your part on Chicago Met?

1:26:59.360 --> 1:26:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:04.120
<v Speaker 4>Chicago Mad? Yeah, I'm a an ex naval surgeon who's

1:27:04.240 --> 1:27:07.719
<v Speaker 4>now at this hospital, Gaffney Hospital. And he's a mess,

1:27:07.800 --> 1:27:09.599
<v Speaker 4>this guy, and he's a total mess.

1:27:10.120 --> 1:27:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, they've done Chicago PD crossovers, and I don't put

1:27:13.240 --> 1:27:15.720
<v Speaker 1>it past them to have like one of their detectives,

1:27:15.800 --> 1:27:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, get hurt in Chicago and have a

1:27:18.400 --> 1:27:21.000
<v Speaker 1>crossover with Med. That would be fun.

1:27:21.240 --> 1:27:23.439
<v Speaker 2>This might be too detailed of a question, since you

1:27:23.520 --> 1:27:26.000
<v Speaker 2>filmed a while ago. Are they like, the suits look

1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:28.400
<v Speaker 2>very expensive? Do you know if they are expensive?

1:27:32.000 --> 1:27:34.519
<v Speaker 4>Well, look, I think the clothing budget for certain characters

1:27:34.680 --> 1:27:40.800
<v Speaker 4>is pretty good. They this isn't a series that scrimps. Yeah,

1:27:40.920 --> 1:27:45.559
<v Speaker 4>they they they pay everything they need, They pay top

1:27:45.680 --> 1:27:48.880
<v Speaker 4>dollar for their clothing. They don't, they don't go on

1:27:48.920 --> 1:27:51.200
<v Speaker 4>the cheap. I really can't remember.

1:27:51.360 --> 1:27:56.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, a lot of times we talked to female actors,

1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:58.600
<v Speaker 1>They're like, oh, yes, it was this brand, it was

1:27:58.600 --> 1:28:00.639
<v Speaker 1>this brand, like they remember their was better.

1:28:00.720 --> 1:28:03.800
<v Speaker 4>But well, again, as a younger guy, I really didn't

1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:06.519
<v Speaker 4>care about that stuff. And I should have because right

1:28:06.600 --> 1:28:09.880
<v Speaker 4>now the fact is I'm on this show. All I

1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:14.160
<v Speaker 4>wear are scrubs. Yeah, and now I'd love to wear

1:28:14.200 --> 1:28:17.759
<v Speaker 4>some fancy, cool suit that I would try to buy

1:28:17.800 --> 1:28:21.120
<v Speaker 4>at a discount or even steal. I stole a suit once.

1:28:22.640 --> 1:28:25.840
<v Speaker 2>A yeah, well on America's Next Time Model, I learned

1:28:25.880 --> 1:28:27.840
<v Speaker 2>you have to ask and then maybe if you could

1:28:27.840 --> 1:28:29.599
<v Speaker 2>buy it and then off a set.

1:28:29.640 --> 1:28:31.240
<v Speaker 1>But I have stolen shoes before.

1:28:33.200 --> 1:28:37.600
<v Speaker 4>If if I guess I really did like something, they

1:28:37.680 --> 1:28:39.960
<v Speaker 4>they would probably try to get a discount for me.

1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:43.960
<v Speaker 4>But I don't. While while that's my ulterior motive, I

1:28:43.960 --> 1:28:45.679
<v Speaker 4>don't come right out and say, hey, can I pay

1:28:45.760 --> 1:28:48.920
<v Speaker 4>less for the suit? I say, I really like this suit.

1:28:49.120 --> 1:28:50.599
<v Speaker 4>Is there a way for me to purchase it? And

1:28:50.640 --> 1:28:54.000
<v Speaker 4>if they are, if they like me and I'm incredibly likable,

1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:56.960
<v Speaker 4>they'll say, you know, we'll make a little deal. But once,

1:28:57.040 --> 1:29:00.599
<v Speaker 4>I actually did a miniseries a long time ago where

1:29:00.600 --> 1:29:04.040
<v Speaker 4>I played John F. Kennedy and I stole a suit.

1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:07.519
<v Speaker 4>And the joke was on me because the suit I stole,

1:29:07.560 --> 1:29:11.080
<v Speaker 4>which I thought looked so great, was cut to be

1:29:11.240 --> 1:29:14.040
<v Speaker 4>like a suit from nineteen forty six. So while it

1:29:14.080 --> 1:29:16.800
<v Speaker 4>had broad shoulders and really big lapels and it looked great,

1:29:16.840 --> 1:29:20.240
<v Speaker 4>in the context of this mini series, I could wear

1:29:20.280 --> 1:29:22.800
<v Speaker 4>it on the street because I'd look like something from

1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:23.599
<v Speaker 4>Guys and Dolls.

1:29:23.640 --> 1:29:27.759
<v Speaker 3>You know, Well, how was so in this episode?

1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:32.000
<v Speaker 1>You represent Elizabeth McGovern's character, and she's an actress I've

1:29:32.000 --> 1:29:34.080
<v Speaker 1>been watching my entire life as well.

1:29:34.360 --> 1:29:35.280
<v Speaker 3>How was working with her?

1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:43.640
<v Speaker 4>She was great? I mean she terrible, mean to everybody.

1:29:44.040 --> 1:29:49.480
<v Speaker 4>She would kick the craft service people. She was fantastic.

1:29:49.600 --> 1:29:52.160
<v Speaker 4>And the thing is that obviously she hadn't done Doubt

1:29:52.200 --> 1:29:56.640
<v Speaker 4>n Abbey at this point, and so she was I

1:29:56.640 --> 1:29:59.519
<v Speaker 4>think in a period where she was in a way

1:29:59.560 --> 1:30:03.000
<v Speaker 4>coasting between gigs, which is what happens to actors of

1:30:03.040 --> 1:30:05.880
<v Speaker 4>all stripes. You know, she'd done rag Time, and she'd had,

1:30:06.080 --> 1:30:08.639
<v Speaker 4>you know, really cool success and was very well known,

1:30:09.439 --> 1:30:13.240
<v Speaker 4>and you take a little path toward that takes you

1:30:13.320 --> 1:30:16.840
<v Speaker 4>to Law and Order, that takes you to other TV shows,

1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:19.960
<v Speaker 4>and you're you're you know what I mean, you're you know,

1:30:20.000 --> 1:30:22.880
<v Speaker 4>you're not a kind of superstar trajectory, and then you

1:30:22.880 --> 1:30:25.719
<v Speaker 4>you kind of level off and then you you meander

1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:28.880
<v Speaker 4>and then it was interestingly enough, you know, twenty plus

1:30:28.960 --> 1:30:31.240
<v Speaker 4>years later that she got on Dalton Abbey and really

1:30:31.320 --> 1:30:35.280
<v Speaker 4>kind of hit this amazing note with that great show,

1:30:35.320 --> 1:30:39.640
<v Speaker 4>playing that beautiful character. So you know, she's a wonderful,

1:30:39.840 --> 1:30:44.160
<v Speaker 4>really interesting actor, really interesting portrayal. Right, you know, you

1:30:44.200 --> 1:30:46.720
<v Speaker 4>don't you kind of don't see it coming. And then

1:30:46.760 --> 1:30:49.080
<v Speaker 4>she defends herself in a way that you didn't that

1:30:49.160 --> 1:30:53.120
<v Speaker 4>I didn't see coming either. It's really really fascinating.

1:30:53.920 --> 1:30:55.599
<v Speaker 2>I also felt like you had a lot of chemistry

1:30:55.600 --> 1:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>with Diane Neal, who plays Casey Novak.

1:30:57.880 --> 1:31:00.280
<v Speaker 3>The lawyer. That's why I thought they might keep you around.

1:31:00.400 --> 1:31:03.400
<v Speaker 1>You guys had a it seems like you had es.

1:31:03.640 --> 1:31:06.960
<v Speaker 4>Well That's interesting to say that because we stayed friendly

1:31:07.200 --> 1:31:11.679
<v Speaker 4>years after that show. And I remember even during the shoot,

1:31:11.720 --> 1:31:14.040
<v Speaker 4>we discovered that we had the same sense of humor.

1:31:14.120 --> 1:31:17.360
<v Speaker 4>And she's really twisted and funny and yeah, you know,

1:31:17.479 --> 1:31:21.320
<v Speaker 4>would probably lie down in Central Park where people were killed.

1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:22.840
<v Speaker 1>You know, that type of thing she's been.

1:31:25.479 --> 1:31:27.120
<v Speaker 4>Well, there you go, So then you know what I'm

1:31:27.120 --> 1:31:29.439
<v Speaker 4>talking about. So we hit it off like crazy. Yeah,

1:31:30.120 --> 1:31:31.720
<v Speaker 4>but who knows, you know, there's like I said, there

1:31:31.720 --> 1:31:34.840
<v Speaker 4>are a lot of moving parts and uh, and I

1:31:34.880 --> 1:31:36.839
<v Speaker 4>realized at the end of the day that the actors

1:31:36.880 --> 1:31:41.240
<v Speaker 4>are most actors are kind of disposable, you know, We're

1:31:41.360 --> 1:31:45.880
<v Speaker 4>just part of the machine. And I've learned after decades

1:31:45.960 --> 1:31:48.880
<v Speaker 4>now that if a good job comes along, like the

1:31:48.920 --> 1:31:52.160
<v Speaker 4>one I'm currently on, hop on. You know, it's like

1:31:52.200 --> 1:31:55.320
<v Speaker 4>the carnival cruise. You hop on, you've done your uniform,

1:31:55.439 --> 1:31:58.679
<v Speaker 4>you do your thing, and then say thank you, be grateful,

1:31:58.680 --> 1:32:01.840
<v Speaker 4>and then get out trying not to be a jerk.

1:32:02.560 --> 1:32:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, what, like you've worked on so many sets?

1:32:06.640 --> 1:32:09.639
<v Speaker 2>How is it like joining a show and then piecing

1:32:09.680 --> 1:32:10.759
<v Speaker 2>out like is there.

1:32:11.640 --> 1:32:13.120
<v Speaker 1>A rhythm to it? You know what I mean? When

1:32:13.280 --> 1:32:15.160
<v Speaker 1>has you been a regular on so many where you're

1:32:15.200 --> 1:32:18.120
<v Speaker 1>there for many like seasons, and then you're do some

1:32:18.200 --> 1:32:19.280
<v Speaker 1>where you're just in and out.

1:32:19.400 --> 1:32:22.960
<v Speaker 4>So right now I sort of have it down, and

1:32:23.640 --> 1:32:27.920
<v Speaker 4>it's it's never not exciting, it's never not a little

1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:32.720
<v Speaker 4>anxiety producing. But I literally, just the other day I

1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:35.759
<v Speaker 4>was working with a young actor who'd done some theater

1:32:35.840 --> 1:32:39.559
<v Speaker 4>but had not done any TV, and he I saw it.

1:32:39.720 --> 1:32:44.280
<v Speaker 4>I saw him kind of be lost for a second

1:32:44.400 --> 1:32:47.559
<v Speaker 4>and not freaking out lost, but he didn't know why.

1:32:47.600 --> 1:32:50.400
<v Speaker 4>For instance, people were putting down tape at your feet,

1:32:50.479 --> 1:32:53.759
<v Speaker 4>and he didn't know what the protocol was in terms

1:32:53.840 --> 1:32:56.400
<v Speaker 4>of rehearsing and then leaving the set and having people

1:32:56.479 --> 1:32:58.559
<v Speaker 4>light it and focus and everything. And I was there

1:32:58.600 --> 1:33:02.160
<v Speaker 4>to do four at least, I hope what I'd wished

1:33:02.160 --> 1:33:07.160
<v Speaker 4>somebody had done for me, which was say, basically literally

1:33:07.240 --> 1:33:11.160
<v Speaker 4>and figurably, put my hand on his shoulder and say, ah, okay,

1:33:11.360 --> 1:33:13.719
<v Speaker 4>so are you okay? He said, well, no, not really,

1:33:13.760 --> 1:33:16.400
<v Speaker 4>and then we had a kind of discussion. So it's

1:33:16.439 --> 1:33:18.920
<v Speaker 4>always it's always a little daunting to come on to

1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:22.639
<v Speaker 4>a new set and it's exciting, But like I say,

1:33:22.720 --> 1:33:28.240
<v Speaker 4>now I'm fairly relaxed. I've gotten to the point where

1:33:27.760 --> 1:33:31.160
<v Speaker 4>I usually know somebody on the set. If they're not

1:33:31.240 --> 1:33:33.559
<v Speaker 4>in the cast, they're in the crew, somebody I've worked with,

1:33:34.680 --> 1:33:40.040
<v Speaker 4>and that's always always good. But look, nobody's forced to

1:33:40.080 --> 1:33:44.000
<v Speaker 4>work in this industry. It's always exciting. It's always a

1:33:44.040 --> 1:33:48.840
<v Speaker 4>privilege to do it. Even if you have a small part,

1:33:48.960 --> 1:33:51.719
<v Speaker 4>or even if you're at a hard job on the crew,

1:33:51.840 --> 1:33:55.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, like shoveling crap, it's still kind of cool

1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:58.679
<v Speaker 4>and exciting. And you never know, like in five years

1:33:59.160 --> 1:34:02.240
<v Speaker 4>I'll be begging one of these people for a job,

1:34:03.720 --> 1:34:05.240
<v Speaker 4>So it tays to be nice.

1:34:05.280 --> 1:34:07.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, man, You're you're there. Doesn't look like

1:34:07.600 --> 1:34:09.920
<v Speaker 1>there's that many gaps on your IMDb, like you have

1:34:09.920 --> 1:34:11.400
<v Speaker 1>a You've done a lot, and I want, I do

1:34:11.520 --> 1:34:14.080
<v Speaker 1>need to point out one of your favorite roles of

1:34:14.120 --> 1:34:18.360
<v Speaker 1>mine is that my daughter loves the show Puppy Dog Pals,

1:34:18.439 --> 1:34:21.040
<v Speaker 1>and I was really excited to see that you have

1:34:21.160 --> 1:34:25.800
<v Speaker 1>voiced many, many characters on songs, the whole thing. Yeah,

1:34:25.840 --> 1:34:28.120
<v Speaker 1>oh my god. The theme song of that show gets

1:34:28.160 --> 1:34:30.280
<v Speaker 1>so stuck in your head. It's like one of these

1:34:30.320 --> 1:34:33.840
<v Speaker 1>little kid earwarm songs, but it's not connected to puppytrol

1:34:33.880 --> 1:34:34.160
<v Speaker 1>or pop.

1:34:34.320 --> 1:34:35.880
<v Speaker 3>No, it's not connected to pap Patrol.

1:34:35.880 --> 1:34:39.559
<v Speaker 1>The puppy dog pills are their own thing. But you

1:34:39.680 --> 1:34:41.960
<v Speaker 1>have done a bunch of voiceover, but you've also done

1:34:42.000 --> 1:34:46.240
<v Speaker 1>like movies, TV, like you've been in a scripted podcast, theater, musicals,

1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:49.040
<v Speaker 1>like do you have, like anything, what's on your career

1:34:49.080 --> 1:34:51.160
<v Speaker 1>bucket lists that you like haven't done yet? Or are

1:34:51.200 --> 1:34:53.840
<v Speaker 1>there like roles dream roles that you've always wanted to

1:34:53.840 --> 1:34:58.000
<v Speaker 1>play either on the stage or the screen or Yeah.

1:34:57.479 --> 1:35:00.240
<v Speaker 4>I mean a lot of the the roles and there

1:35:00.240 --> 1:35:02.360
<v Speaker 4>weren't really that many that I had wanted to play.

1:35:02.400 --> 1:35:05.760
<v Speaker 4>I've kind of aged out of and so I have

1:35:06.400 --> 1:35:09.360
<v Speaker 4>and and what I really would like to do, I

1:35:09.360 --> 1:35:16.040
<v Speaker 4>think is do some more theater in New York or

1:35:16.160 --> 1:35:20.240
<v Speaker 4>Chicago for that matter, and and find a kind of

1:35:22.320 --> 1:35:26.880
<v Speaker 4>I guess critical acceptance. Uh, and that that has been

1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:29.400
<v Speaker 4>a little elusive.

1:35:30.040 --> 1:35:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1:35:31.439 --> 1:35:33.960
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm I'm I must be doing something right

1:35:34.000 --> 1:35:37.880
<v Speaker 4>because I'm working a lot that said, I do aspire

1:35:37.960 --> 1:35:44.479
<v Speaker 4>to do something that is really moving and and something

1:35:44.479 --> 1:35:47.160
<v Speaker 4>that people connect with. In fact, it was my hope

1:35:47.200 --> 1:35:48.880
<v Speaker 4>and still is my hope that the character that I'm

1:35:48.880 --> 1:35:54.680
<v Speaker 4>currently doing on Chicago Med kind of meets those requirements

1:35:54.760 --> 1:35:58.680
<v Speaker 4>to a certain degree, because he's a guy that has PTSD,

1:35:59.000 --> 1:36:02.720
<v Speaker 4>He's doesn't like himself. He's the type of guy that

1:36:02.880 --> 1:36:05.920
<v Speaker 4>is broken, of which you know, there are many broken

1:36:05.960 --> 1:36:10.280
<v Speaker 4>and fractured men and and so I find that interesting. So,

1:36:10.680 --> 1:36:12.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, if there's a role out there that is

1:36:13.280 --> 1:36:15.880
<v Speaker 4>that people connect with, that's something that I aspire to.

1:36:16.080 --> 1:36:19.280
<v Speaker 4>I can't be more specific than that. That's you know,

1:36:19.520 --> 1:36:21.760
<v Speaker 4>I'd love to play something in the Marvel universe, but

1:36:21.760 --> 1:36:22.960
<v Speaker 4>what are they going to give me? You know, I'll

1:36:23.040 --> 1:36:25.040
<v Speaker 4>be like a doctor stranger's accountant.

1:36:25.240 --> 1:36:27.559
<v Speaker 1>There's plenty of sure.

1:36:27.840 --> 1:36:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Funny moment, we were talking to Laura Bananti and we

1:36:30.960 --> 1:36:33.840
<v Speaker 2>asked her about the role and she goes, listen, I've

1:36:33.840 --> 1:36:35.760
<v Speaker 2>done it. And we were like, yeah, because she did,

1:36:35.760 --> 1:36:38.200
<v Speaker 2>my fair lady, And she's like, I've just kind of

1:36:38.240 --> 1:36:40.240
<v Speaker 2>done it. We don't know, I don't know what to

1:36:40.280 --> 1:36:41.760
<v Speaker 2>tell you.

1:36:41.800 --> 1:36:43.840
<v Speaker 1>So we did love that.

1:36:43.920 --> 1:36:44.040
<v Speaker 4>Well.

1:36:44.040 --> 1:36:46.040
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say, I love the way you talk

1:36:46.080 --> 1:36:47.840
<v Speaker 2>about all this, but I want to know, have you

1:36:47.840 --> 1:36:48.920
<v Speaker 2>ever been starstruck?

1:36:49.439 --> 1:36:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever? Even though you know all these.

1:36:52.080 --> 1:36:57.160
<v Speaker 4>Always always, and in fact, I always ruin any potential

1:36:57.200 --> 1:36:59.680
<v Speaker 4>relationship I have with somebody who I'm a fan of

1:37:00.160 --> 1:37:01.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, you think, yeah, I'm in the business too,

1:37:01.800 --> 1:37:03.760
<v Speaker 4>and I can, I can. I should be able to

1:37:03.800 --> 1:37:06.200
<v Speaker 4>hang out and chat with these people. It takes a

1:37:06.200 --> 1:37:09.400
<v Speaker 4>great effort for me not to go, oh, you are great,

1:37:09.640 --> 1:37:12.320
<v Speaker 4>and as soon as you do that, it's ruined.

1:37:12.680 --> 1:37:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:37:13.400 --> 1:37:16.400
<v Speaker 4>Then then I'm then I'm all the way down here

1:37:16.479 --> 1:37:18.760
<v Speaker 4>and they look at me like, Okay, it's one of

1:37:18.800 --> 1:37:21.880
<v Speaker 4>those guys. I mean, I once, I did work one

1:37:21.960 --> 1:37:25.439
<v Speaker 4>day on a film with Jeff Bridges, and I really

1:37:25.479 --> 1:37:30.320
<v Speaker 4>worked hard to not be starstruck, and it paid off

1:37:30.560 --> 1:37:33.680
<v Speaker 4>because he was really cool and he was everything that

1:37:33.720 --> 1:37:38.120
<v Speaker 4>I wanted him to be. But I was like starstruck afterwards.

1:37:38.360 --> 1:37:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Afterwards I probably had a chance to maybe reconnect with him,

1:37:41.320 --> 1:37:44.679
<v Speaker 4>but I was too afraid. I was too afraid. But yeah,

1:37:44.680 --> 1:37:46.960
<v Speaker 4>it happens all the time. Happens all the time. I mean,

1:37:47.000 --> 1:37:49.559
<v Speaker 4>this is so amazing people. I'm more a fan than

1:37:49.600 --> 1:37:53.000
<v Speaker 4>I am a peer. Yeah, how about you, I mean,

1:37:53.000 --> 1:37:55.000
<v Speaker 4>don't don't you ever? I mean when you do meet

1:37:55.040 --> 1:37:56.559
<v Speaker 4>other performers, that of course you do.

1:37:56.680 --> 1:37:59.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I'm I humiliate myself in front of drag.

1:37:59.320 --> 1:38:02.160
<v Speaker 2>Weeen introduced me to a drag queen and I went,

1:38:02.320 --> 1:38:06.960
<v Speaker 2>I just like couldn't handle it. But anytime I, like

1:38:07.080 --> 1:38:09.519
<v Speaker 2>have worked on a set, I always wait till I'm

1:38:09.520 --> 1:38:11.760
<v Speaker 2>wrapped because I'm always just somewhere for a day, you know,

1:38:12.280 --> 1:38:14.080
<v Speaker 2>And so I wait till the end and then I

1:38:14.120 --> 1:38:15.880
<v Speaker 2>go like, it was really cool working with.

1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:18.599
<v Speaker 1>You or something like that. But I try to Actually

1:38:18.600 --> 1:38:19.200
<v Speaker 1>that's not true.

1:38:19.320 --> 1:38:23.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm mine. Yeah, I'm always really excited. And I grew

1:38:23.200 --> 1:38:26.799
<v Speaker 2>up going to the movies every week. We loved entertainment.

1:38:26.840 --> 1:38:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Tonight in my house we watched the Awards shows, and

1:38:29.240 --> 1:38:33.680
<v Speaker 2>so I don't actuade it, like I'm excited by all

1:38:33.720 --> 1:38:35.240
<v Speaker 2>of it. And I like seeing people, even if it's

1:38:35.280 --> 1:38:37.680
<v Speaker 2>just on the street or I get to meet them

1:38:37.800 --> 1:38:39.880
<v Speaker 2>or with friends, like I always get really jazz.

1:38:40.439 --> 1:38:41.000
<v Speaker 1>I like it.

1:38:41.160 --> 1:38:43.640
<v Speaker 4>There's a party that I go to every year, and

1:38:43.760 --> 1:38:45.479
<v Speaker 4>I don't go to a lot of parties. I have

1:38:45.520 --> 1:38:48.280
<v Speaker 4>a very I've got a very small life, you know,

1:38:48.400 --> 1:38:53.559
<v Speaker 4>And I really do and and but and I'll drop

1:38:53.560 --> 1:38:55.760
<v Speaker 4>a name, you know. Sarah Silverman is a friend of mine,

1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:59.240
<v Speaker 4>and she has this insane party and it's on the

1:38:59.320 --> 1:39:01.200
<v Speaker 4>roof of a bill thing that she lives in. And

1:39:02.040 --> 1:39:07.200
<v Speaker 4>at this party is every cool person in comedy in film,

1:39:07.280 --> 1:39:09.840
<v Speaker 4>and there's some politicians there and it's not a high

1:39:09.880 --> 1:39:14.240
<v Speaker 4>falutin party. It absolutely is a chill party where you know,

1:39:14.360 --> 1:39:18.120
<v Speaker 4>people are eating edibles and they're having pizza and they're

1:39:18.240 --> 1:39:22.719
<v Speaker 4>you know, and it's absolutely incredible. And it's the worst

1:39:22.720 --> 1:39:27.280
<v Speaker 4>place for me to be because I'm invited, but I can't.

1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:33.240
<v Speaker 4>I cannot comport myself. I cannot comport myself with any

1:39:33.479 --> 1:39:37.519
<v Speaker 4>cool at all. It's and and so I'm paralyzed and

1:39:37.560 --> 1:39:38.120
<v Speaker 4>I find.

1:39:37.880 --> 1:39:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Myself because Sarah Silverman does that to me.

1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:43.960
<v Speaker 2>I've been in small parties with her green room and

1:39:44.120 --> 1:39:47.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't act normal, like I like, she liked one

1:39:47.880 --> 1:39:49.960
<v Speaker 2>of my videos recently and I took a screenshot of it,

1:39:50.200 --> 1:39:52.280
<v Speaker 2>like I try to around her boat.

1:39:52.439 --> 1:39:56.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's impossible. It's hard. And look, we're friends. We're

1:39:56.520 --> 1:39:58.800
<v Speaker 4>friends that I can call her up or I'm friends,

1:39:59.240 --> 1:40:03.160
<v Speaker 4>and I don't quite often because alluding to what I

1:40:03.200 --> 1:40:07.559
<v Speaker 4>was saying before, I you know, I don't. I feel

1:40:07.600 --> 1:40:10.400
<v Speaker 4>like it's it's wrong for me because I'm still too

1:40:10.479 --> 1:40:14.120
<v Speaker 4>much of a fan. I still can't get over the

1:40:14.160 --> 1:40:17.840
<v Speaker 4>fact that, huh, I'm sitting near to Sarah Silverman too.

1:40:17.960 --> 1:40:19.320
<v Speaker 4>It's too weird. It's too weird.

1:40:19.560 --> 1:40:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Well wait, I would like I would love to ask

1:40:21.960 --> 1:40:24.479
<v Speaker 1>really quickly, what do you get recognized for the most?

1:40:24.520 --> 1:40:26.559
<v Speaker 1>We love to ask people that. And you've done so much,

1:40:26.600 --> 1:40:28.519
<v Speaker 1>so like do people know you from? I'm sure it

1:40:28.520 --> 1:40:30.479
<v Speaker 1>depends on the age, like people know you from Wings

1:40:30.560 --> 1:40:33.240
<v Speaker 1>or they know you from Thirteen Reasons or like what

1:40:33.240 --> 1:40:35.200
<v Speaker 1>what do people what do you get the most?

1:40:35.920 --> 1:40:39.040
<v Speaker 4>I would say, Uh, it's a toss up between Wings

1:40:39.240 --> 1:40:42.280
<v Speaker 4>and then the Shining. I did a Shining miniseries in

1:40:42.320 --> 1:40:45.920
<v Speaker 4>the nineties and uh, and then I get the occasional

1:40:46.240 --> 1:40:49.160
<v Speaker 4>stray person that says, hey you, I loved you and

1:40:49.280 --> 1:40:51.920
<v Speaker 4>Party Down. Party Down was a really funny show. Yes,

1:40:52.560 --> 1:40:55.519
<v Speaker 4>or Thirteen Reasons Why I saw I I have crossed

1:40:55.720 --> 1:41:00.960
<v Speaker 4>enough demographics that I get recognized for a lot of stuff.

1:41:01.000 --> 1:41:05.000
<v Speaker 4>But I would say still mostly Wings. Oh and Psych.

1:41:05.200 --> 1:41:07.519
<v Speaker 4>I did one episode of this series Psych one.

1:41:08.000 --> 1:41:08.920
<v Speaker 1>People love Psych.

1:41:09.680 --> 1:41:12.960
<v Speaker 4>I mean, okay, you know, I just one. I was

1:41:13.320 --> 1:41:15.760
<v Speaker 4>probably twenty minutes of screen time, and I get I

1:41:15.800 --> 1:41:19.120
<v Speaker 4>get deluged. Wow, relatively speaking, you know, it's not really

1:41:19.240 --> 1:41:21.519
<v Speaker 4>day luge, Like one moment, I'll be talking to you

1:41:21.600 --> 1:41:24.439
<v Speaker 4>in an hour from now. I'm dumpster diving so this

1:41:24.520 --> 1:41:28.320
<v Speaker 4>is it's all. I have to be very philosophic about it.

1:41:29.320 --> 1:41:31.960
<v Speaker 1>No, this was awesome. This was fun. As I think

1:41:31.960 --> 1:41:34.800
<v Speaker 1>we this is great. But Steve, thank you even I

1:41:34.920 --> 1:41:37.639
<v Speaker 1>just called you Steve like we're old friends. Steve, thank

1:41:37.680 --> 1:41:42.240
<v Speaker 1>you so much for talking to us. This was amazing pleasure.

1:41:45.760 --> 1:41:49.320
<v Speaker 1>That was great. He was great. Yeah, we're gonna possibly

1:41:49.680 --> 1:41:52.160
<v Speaker 1>try to hang out with him in Chicago. We'll see. Yeah. No,

1:41:52.280 --> 1:41:53.479
<v Speaker 1>I definitely told Caro.

1:41:53.560 --> 1:41:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, we are telling him where he's coming to

1:41:56.000 --> 1:41:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Old Tom Pup with us. Whether he likes it or not.

1:41:57.920 --> 1:41:59.840
<v Speaker 2>He is coming to our show. He's coming to West

1:42:00.200 --> 1:42:00.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the pub.

1:42:01.600 --> 1:42:05.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, this episode comes out half the update people if.

1:42:05.479 --> 1:42:07.640
<v Speaker 2>We'll have to tell you if we hung out or not.

1:42:07.800 --> 1:42:11.960
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. It was just fun and that's that.

1:42:12.040 --> 1:42:15.200
<v Speaker 1>What are we to learn? What are we learning? What

1:42:15.280 --> 1:42:18.240
<v Speaker 1>did we learn from today's episode? Lisa took us through

1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:20.120
<v Speaker 1>the whole I mean I learned a lot because I

1:42:20.160 --> 1:42:22.400
<v Speaker 1>didn't know a lot about Abu Grabe specifically. I mean

1:42:22.400 --> 1:42:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I knew the general points, but Lisa took us through

1:42:24.920 --> 1:42:29.200
<v Speaker 1>all of the finer points of the Abu Grabe travesty.

1:42:29.920 --> 1:42:33.840
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I guess it's like, uh, we've all we

1:42:33.960 --> 1:42:36.120
<v Speaker 1>we learned over and over. We can't give people power

1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:38.200
<v Speaker 1>over other people that way because they will abuse it,

1:42:38.520 --> 1:42:43.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, the Milgram experiment. I was a sociology major,

1:42:43.160 --> 1:42:44.000
<v Speaker 1>so I know all about that.

1:42:44.280 --> 1:42:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all about the Milgram you know. But I was

1:42:48.520 --> 1:42:52.400
<v Speaker 2>so lucky because I got to like transfer, call it whatever.

1:42:52.479 --> 1:42:56.439
<v Speaker 1>I didn't have to actually take statistics. I tried my

1:42:56.479 --> 1:42:57.439
<v Speaker 1>way out of it, but.

1:42:57.400 --> 1:42:59.320
<v Speaker 2>It's good because I was getting deep, like I couldn't

1:42:59.320 --> 1:43:01.559
<v Speaker 2>pass it. It's like that's not what my brain is

1:43:01.560 --> 1:43:04.040
<v Speaker 2>gonna do. I got like a C in statistics. It

1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:06.280
<v Speaker 2>was just not for me, like I could not figure

1:43:06.320 --> 1:43:08.160
<v Speaker 2>it out. It was like I but I had to

1:43:08.200 --> 1:43:11.639
<v Speaker 2>take a math class to graduate. So that was my class,

1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:14.760
<v Speaker 2>and my math major friend was like, just take it

1:43:14.800 --> 1:43:15.000
<v Speaker 2>with me.

1:43:15.040 --> 1:43:15.559
<v Speaker 3>I'll help you.

1:43:15.600 --> 1:43:17.400
<v Speaker 1>And then of course it's like people that are good

1:43:17.400 --> 1:43:19.840
<v Speaker 1>at math can't like that doesn't necessarily mean they're good

1:43:19.880 --> 1:43:20.840
<v Speaker 1>at helping teach it to you.

1:43:21.040 --> 1:43:22.360
<v Speaker 3>She was like, why don't you get this? And I'd

1:43:22.360 --> 1:43:23.080
<v Speaker 3>be like, because I don't.

1:43:23.120 --> 1:43:24.960
<v Speaker 1>She'd be like, oh, because for me, it's just obvious,

1:43:25.000 --> 1:43:27.559
<v Speaker 1>and I'd be like, that's the problem. I probably shouldn't

1:43:27.560 --> 1:43:30.760
<v Speaker 1>have taken a class with you. But yeah, fucking statistics.

1:43:31.160 --> 1:43:33.880
<v Speaker 1>That was when I told you that. I told them

1:43:33.920 --> 1:43:35.320
<v Speaker 1>I had a break down so I didn't have to

1:43:35.320 --> 1:43:38.000
<v Speaker 1>do a test because I was like, this looks like

1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:42.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at Greek like I cannot understand. Yeah, because

1:43:42.360 --> 1:43:43.080
<v Speaker 1>you love a chart.

1:43:43.160 --> 1:43:45.519
<v Speaker 2>So I'm a little bit shocked. But yeah, statistics was

1:43:45.560 --> 1:43:47.559
<v Speaker 2>so hard. And in Iowa was like at eight am,

1:43:47.720 --> 1:43:49.240
<v Speaker 2>like there was just no way. I thank god, I

1:43:49.360 --> 1:43:52.120
<v Speaker 2>dropped out. There was just no way I could do it.

1:43:52.439 --> 1:43:54.960
<v Speaker 1>I love with all your transferring you somehow moved around

1:43:55.000 --> 1:43:55.959
<v Speaker 1>that that's amazing.

1:43:56.720 --> 1:43:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because I got out because I couldn't understand.

1:43:59.680 --> 1:44:02.920
<v Speaker 2>I just couldn't understand it. And that's that. And like

1:44:03.320 --> 1:44:05.799
<v Speaker 2>do I blame my brain, my effort or the teacher?

1:44:05.880 --> 1:44:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but either way, it was not penetrating

1:44:08.800 --> 1:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>through this membrane.

1:44:11.280 --> 1:44:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Not not gonna do it. You know what, what's filled

1:44:13.920 --> 1:44:14.599
<v Speaker 1>with my brain?

1:44:14.800 --> 1:44:17.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, just like what outfits the Nanny War on

1:44:18.040 --> 1:44:20.160
<v Speaker 2>the TV show, that's what my brain is filled with.

1:44:21.080 --> 1:44:25.519
<v Speaker 3>Just with a bird print outfits. Yeah, why isn't there

1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:28.200
<v Speaker 3>a fucking degree and what outfits the nanny War? Come on?

1:44:28.720 --> 1:44:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, my favorite is when I started talking about in

1:44:31.880 --> 1:44:35.680
<v Speaker 2>like moments from the Arthur TV show cartoon out one

1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:39.439
<v Speaker 2>of our live shows, and no, even people that watched it,

1:44:39.479 --> 1:44:41.320
<v Speaker 2>and you finally were like, no, not your.

1:44:41.200 --> 1:44:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Psycho, Like, of course you watched it. Not everyone remembers,

1:44:45.040 --> 1:44:47.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, you were like you never watched Arthur. I

1:44:47.080 --> 1:44:49.120
<v Speaker 1>was like, yes, I did, but I'll remember it like

1:44:49.200 --> 1:44:50.160
<v Speaker 1>scene for scene.

1:44:50.760 --> 1:44:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but TV free Week was a big it was

1:44:53.600 --> 1:44:58.160
<v Speaker 2>a big episode. You probably just remember. Oh, you know

1:44:58.200 --> 1:45:00.559
<v Speaker 2>what's also good about Halloween? They play all the Simpson's

1:45:00.600 --> 1:45:04.519
<v Speaker 2>Treehouse of Horrors, oh and FXX all day and night, so.

1:45:04.640 --> 1:45:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I remember that. I always remember Bart being like the

1:45:07.240 --> 1:45:11.519
<v Speaker 1>Raven nevermore, never more, the Edgar Allen Poe.

1:45:12.400 --> 1:45:17.040
<v Speaker 2>So we really but honestly, the Hippocratic oath means something

1:45:17.400 --> 1:45:23.760
<v Speaker 2>the military is not good. Don't don't do that to people. Yeah,

1:45:23.800 --> 1:45:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what else to say. Yeah, you know,

1:45:26.960 --> 1:45:29.280
<v Speaker 2>and I just feel sad for Haruna boss. You know,

1:45:29.439 --> 1:45:32.280
<v Speaker 2>that's that's the saddest of it all, to like escape

1:45:32.280 --> 1:45:36.479
<v Speaker 2>and then be fucking face to face with your person.

1:45:36.760 --> 1:45:38.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just scary. We've had a few of those, were

1:45:38.920 --> 1:45:41.640
<v Speaker 1>people in SVU where they run into their old to

1:45:41.880 --> 1:45:43.920
<v Speaker 1>like the very first episode of the show, isn't it

1:45:43.960 --> 1:45:46.920
<v Speaker 1>the very first episode? The pilot of SVU is like

1:45:46.920 --> 1:45:49.400
<v Speaker 1>like people running into their captors from another land.

1:45:49.640 --> 1:45:51.920
<v Speaker 2>And I didn't listen to this and I probably won't,

1:45:52.120 --> 1:45:55.479
<v Speaker 2>but thank god my friend Julia does. But I guess

1:45:55.560 --> 1:45:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Rachel Maddow has a new podcast about American Nazis and

1:45:59.400 --> 1:46:02.280
<v Speaker 2>like how we really protected a lot of the Nazis

1:46:02.320 --> 1:46:05.719
<v Speaker 2>here throughout World War Two and that's like whoa really

1:46:06.120 --> 1:46:09.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that they like were speech writers for a lot

1:46:09.439 --> 1:46:12.160
<v Speaker 2>of the people in the government and infiltrated the government

1:46:12.280 --> 1:46:13.759
<v Speaker 2>in really big ways.

1:46:13.840 --> 1:46:16.920
<v Speaker 1>So there's a Rachel Maddow series on that.

1:46:17.680 --> 1:46:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Damn, I gotta go check.

1:46:18.920 --> 1:46:21.160
<v Speaker 1>But that kind of I started.

1:46:20.920 --> 1:46:23.520
<v Speaker 2>Kind of not loving when when we were in Alabama,

1:46:23.600 --> 1:46:27.719
<v Speaker 2>there's a stadium built up named after like a Nazi engineer,

1:46:27.800 --> 1:46:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, yeah, can you just change it?

1:46:31.400 --> 1:46:31.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Really, I don't know.

1:46:34.400 --> 1:46:36.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the thing.

1:46:36.240 --> 1:46:38.559
<v Speaker 2>That's what's wild about all these people who want to

1:46:38.560 --> 1:46:40.000
<v Speaker 2>have these Nazis on their show.

1:46:40.160 --> 1:46:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Like in the future, I mean, or will be melted.

1:46:42.320 --> 1:46:44.200
<v Speaker 2>But in the future it's not gonna be like, oh, well,

1:46:44.240 --> 1:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't a Nazi, he just had Nazis on his

1:46:46.520 --> 1:46:50.479
<v Speaker 2>radio show, like that's you're like, these people realize that

1:46:50.560 --> 1:46:54.040
<v Speaker 2>they are gonna be remembered as Nazis or if they

1:46:54.240 --> 1:46:57.200
<v Speaker 2>really just or they don't care and they are Nazis,

1:46:57.280 --> 1:46:58.840
<v Speaker 2>or they don't get it, like I wonder.

1:46:59.439 --> 1:47:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, huh, I don't know. My brain is mush today.

1:47:03.800 --> 1:47:06.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't love COVID. I just love talking. I don't

1:47:06.400 --> 1:47:09.840
<v Speaker 1>remember anything. We love doing this show and we hope

1:47:09.840 --> 1:47:12.800
<v Speaker 1>you enjoyed this. Yeah, let's get into what would Sister

1:47:12.880 --> 1:47:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Peg do for this? That's our weekly segment where we

1:47:15.439 --> 1:47:17.920
<v Speaker 1>point you guys to an article, a book, an organization,

1:47:18.000 --> 1:47:19.840
<v Speaker 1>something to give you more information about what we touched

1:47:19.840 --> 1:47:20.799
<v Speaker 1>on in today's episode.

1:47:20.840 --> 1:47:23.160
<v Speaker 3>And this week we wanted to point you to.

1:47:23.320 --> 1:47:25.759
<v Speaker 1>A book called The Ballad of Abou Gray by Philip

1:47:25.840 --> 1:47:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Gorovich and Errol Morris. And Errol Morris is like a

1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:31.960
<v Speaker 1>famous documentarian who's done like The Thin Blue Line and

1:47:32.000 --> 1:47:34.759
<v Speaker 1>a lot of other things. And the book is based

1:47:34.920 --> 1:47:37.880
<v Speaker 1>on Errol Morris's interviews with the Americans who took the

1:47:37.920 --> 1:47:40.840
<v Speaker 1>pictures and appeared in the pictures that were associated with

1:47:40.880 --> 1:47:44.040
<v Speaker 1>the jail. And he's, you know, an Academy Award Woman

1:47:44.120 --> 1:47:47.000
<v Speaker 1>winning filmmaker. So It's a lot of great information and

1:47:47.040 --> 1:47:48.559
<v Speaker 1>you can check out the link to that in our

1:47:48.600 --> 1:47:51.760
<v Speaker 1>show notes, and as always, it is saved in our

1:47:51.880 --> 1:47:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Instagram stories in a highlight called WWSPD.

1:47:55.840 --> 1:47:58.600
<v Speaker 2>I just saw a thing that says, every day I

1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:04.200
<v Speaker 2>wake up feeling I failed sleep funny, I feel that.

1:48:05.560 --> 1:48:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Next week we'll be doing Unorthodox Season nine, Episode thirteen.

1:48:09.439 --> 1:48:13.240
<v Speaker 2>That's Peacock Hulu. We're obsessed with all of you. Come

1:48:13.280 --> 1:48:15.360
<v Speaker 2>to our live shows. We love to meet you, and

1:48:15.400 --> 1:48:18.519
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for listening to That's Messed Up

1:48:18.680 --> 1:48:19.880
<v Speaker 2>an SVU podcast.

1:48:20.080 --> 1:48:23.759
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, guys, We love you. Until next week.

1:48:24.560 --> 1:48:37.719
<v Speaker 2>Shall That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.

1:48:38.160 --> 1:48:40.240
<v Speaker 1>If you have compliments you'd like to give us or

1:48:40.320 --> 1:48:42.559
<v Speaker 1>episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email

1:48:42.600 --> 1:48:45.280
<v Speaker 1>it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.

1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:48.759
<v Speaker 2>Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod

1:48:48.960 --> 1:48:51.840
<v Speaker 2>and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us

1:48:51.880 --> 1:48:54.960
<v Speaker 2>personally at Kraklank and at glitter Cheese.

1:48:55.320 --> 1:48:58.000
<v Speaker 1>As always, please see our show notes for sources and

1:48:58.040 --> 1:49:01.320
<v Speaker 1>more information. Thank you so much to our producer Kasey

1:49:01.400 --> 1:49:04.599
<v Speaker 1>O'Brien and to our mixer John Bradley and our guest

1:49:04.600 --> 1:49:07.920
<v Speaker 1>booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our theme

1:49:08.040 --> 1:49:11.160
<v Speaker 1>song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you

1:49:11.240 --> 1:49:15.400
<v Speaker 1>to our executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,

1:49:15.439 --> 1:49:19.599
<v Speaker 1>and everybody at Exactly Right Media Dun Dunn