WEBVTT - Mike Walker 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.520 It's the Son of a Botch podcast. It's Wednesday. I'm 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.600 your host, Claude Harmon. This week's guest, Mike Walker might 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:14.440 not be a household name here in the US, but 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.720 he is the coach of the US Open champion Matt 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.239 Fitzpatrick and works with a number of players on the 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.159 European tour and someone who I get to spend a 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.759 lot of time with. And UM, you know, I just 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.319 have a tremendous amount of spect for this guy. Um. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.400 I like the way he coaches. UM, I like the 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.680 way he works with his players, and UM, he's one 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:39.120 of those instructors that works, you know, around the world. 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.000 UM with players. Um, he helps them get better. And 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.520 UM we kind of take a deep dive into Matt 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:50.479 Fitzpatrick's US Open win and UM, he's got a lot 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.199 of good things say. Matt is a very very unique 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.600 and interesting player and easily one of the hardest workers 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:00.880 I've ever seen. And UM, Mike a big part of 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.360 his success. And really excited to get him on the podcast. 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:13.679 So sit back and enjoy listening to Mike Walker. So 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.640 my guess is Mike Walker. Um. In my opinion, Mike 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.280 is one of the best golf instructors in the professional game. Um. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.800 And if you need evidence as to why his student 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.440 Matt Fitzpatrick just won the US Open, Mike, thanks for 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.920 taking a time to talk to us. Um. What an 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.920 amazing accomplishment from Matt. UM. I know you were there. UM. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:37.880 I've been lucky enough to be around players when they 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:42.400 won major championships. It's a it's a very unique situation, 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.680 and I don't think anyone can could prepare you for 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.160 all the aftermath of it. It's um, it's quite chaotic 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:52.120 after they win, isn't it. Well. I actually wasn't there 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:57.000 on the night. I left on the Saturday night. UM, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.240 so the USPGA, he is kind of in the final group, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.160 and everybody convinced me to stay another day, and I 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:11.160 ended up staying and he had a bad day. I 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.679 got bumped onto another flight the next day. I got 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:15.760 COVID on the way home and stuff. So I thought, 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.440 this time, I'm not It's probably remained that way from 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.560 now on. But now I missed the end of the 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:25.440 end of the tournament celebrations. But but I do totally 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.680 appreciate what you're saying. It's a it's a whirlwind that 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.200 comes after it for sure. Um, what do you remember 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:35.880 about that week? Because I've always said whenever players win 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.320 tournaments in my experience that I've been lucky enough to 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.079 be around it, and more so when they win majors, 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.200 There's always been something about them during that week that 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.760 is different and I can never describe it or put 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.960 my finger on it. I try and rack my brain 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.920 in retrospect. What was different that week there? There is 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.280 something different. I just can't figure out what it is. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:01.560 But yeah, I mean, particularly that week with Matt. One 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.120 of my biggest beers that week was that it was 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:08.079 almost kind of there was an air of destiny about 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.440 it with winning the U Sama there, and I was 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.519 the thing that I was pleased about in the build 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:18.000 up was I didn't I didn't get the sense that 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.680 there was any frantic nature to it. He seemed that 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.640 he seemed almost relaxed, as if it was all gonna happen, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.120 and it was. It was kind of the thing that 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.960 nobody was saying, you know, he was just trying to 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:34.559 act normal and just like usual billy cracking jokes and 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.240 and I just think that but it wasn't just that 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:40.400 was the host family was with It was the same 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.720 and and that they were that that was a guy 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.560 he stayed with there, he stayed with joining the U 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.280 Samma and he's a really really cool guy. He's like 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.040 one of us. I've been looking enough to stay in 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.160 his house once and they make the best host you 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.880 can hope for. And he's will Fault and new really 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:03.240 really good value for money. I don't think people realize 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:07.320 how much the stuff with players off the course goes 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.640 into the on course success. You have a week where 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.240 the Majors is, you know, they're very ramped up. The 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:18.280 guys are always kind of heightened. Yeah, US coaches were 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.440 always trying to figure out ways to keep them calm, 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:22.599 to keep them relaxed and all that, which is hard 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.320 to do because the stage is the biggest stage. They 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.800 know it, We know it, um, The caddies all know it, 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.680 the agents, everybody on the team knows it. Um. But 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:33.560 you get an opportunity like that from that, who's one 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.800 on that golf you want to you know, probably the 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.960 biggest at that's on the biggest golf tournament of his 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:40.240 life to win the Amateur there I think was in 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:47.600 pass sounds about right. Yeah, Um, it's a golf course city. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.960 Felt comfortable on UM. He stays with a host family 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.919 and that can really make a huge difference on a big, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.359 big week like that because the off course stuff is 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:04.240 just so much quieter. Yeah, I think. UM. I remember 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.480 being at Wingfoot with Matt a few years ago and 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:14.080 that week he he kind of said on the Wednesday, 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.760 you could tell. I could tell throughout majors over the 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.320 years that he's different those weeks, like you say, And 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.360 after Wingfoot asked, I've made a comment to him that like, 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.200 you do realize that you are different those weeks, and 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.680 and you kind of go to maybe an event the 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.400 week after or two weeks later, and everything is a 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.039 lot more chilled, And he was quite surprised when I 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.239 said that. Um. And this year, I remember the first 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.120 major when we were at Augusta, he was like, I 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.320 want you to tell me if you notice something different 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.279 or the the normal, I want you to tell me, 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.520 And and it kind of got to Thursday or something 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.280 and he said that you haven't said anything. I was like, no, 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.479 So I think he's made a conscious effort. But also 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.280 you know through years that the novel to the great 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.320 places to go, but it's not like the first time 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.040 you've been there, becomes more normal, and I guess he's 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:07.600 been more and more comfortable on the PGA Tours each 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.520 year has gone by so UM. And then at Brookline, Yeah, 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.719 he was just went through all the routines that he 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.800 normally goes through, and I did from a personal standpot 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.080 I did after the first round, he didn't really his 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.080 irons great, and we he was he would normally at 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:26.760 balls after the round, but it was late and it 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.039 was windy, and the thing that was unusual. We actually 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.440 did some technical work and he's warm up on the 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:38.960 Friday UM and it fortunately clicked. And then I didn't 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:40.880 say anything to him the rest of the week. Really, 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.280 it was just stood there and watched him in the charts. UM. 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.880 I find him to be a very very unique UM 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:53.920 type of player. UM. I think his approaches is I mean, 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.280 I've just I've never seen anyone with an approach like it. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:02.200 The way he is incredible to meet from an outsider 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.960 looking in, I watch you guys do things. He seems 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.560 to be incredibly detail oriented where I mean we've read that. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:14.800 You know, he writes down every single shot that he hits. UM. 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:20.360 The way that he practices seems incredibly specific. There seems 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.640 to be a lot of drills, a lot of repetition, 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:29.040 a lot of you know, these building blocks of you know, practice, practice, 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.560 practice practice. Um, what's it like working with him and 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:37.360 how would you describe how he is as a player 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.640 and how he is to work with? Uh, He's taught 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:45.880 me things through this process. He got it. He got 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:50.080 heavily into it a few years ago, but so he 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.920 was always kind of technical related stuff that we did. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.880 And I've actually worked less over since he started doing it. 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.360 I think he's started in two thousand nineteen and ticular 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.840 where it was this taking it from the range to 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.640 the course. And there's a lot of research out there 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.240 saying that you know, block practicing golf, just hitting the 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:15.280 same shot, same lives is um limited. So he employed 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.680 a performance director. He works with Eduardo with his Molinari, 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:24.600 with his stats, and they started coming up with bespoke 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:29.120 kind of skills tests, whether they were based on medium, 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.000 long term technical games or the course that was in 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.720 front of them that week. And it was basically making 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.199 it much more random the practice. So he'd still do 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:43.440 his blocks of technique work, but that he would kind 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.000 of do skill based stuff where it was much more 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:49.560 variable and much more specific to either what he was 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.719 trying to areas of his game that was trying to 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:53.679 improve all the course that was in front of him 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.840 that week, and he really kind of embraced it, loved it, 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.800 and I would not have the supplined to do it. 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:03.560 I would find it. I mean that little black book 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:06.280 that he's constantly writing, and it's just like tracking, like 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.160 how far it's from the flag. It all gets put 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.080 in a data base that all gets and there's a 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.440 mountain of data now from years years back. And I 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.440 mean Billy calls him Bernard Langer's love child. He's uh, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:22.160 he's just like, well I can. I was so admire 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.080 him for it because the dedication to his craft is um. 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.319 He sacrifices a lot. And it's just the day to 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:36.800 day every day. There's gym work, there's skilled practice, there's workouts, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.280 there's a and it's a lifestyle. It's um, you know, 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.880 it's not it's not just a job. It's it's I 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:46.320 saw him at the Open Championship at St. Andrews and 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.440 I hadn't seen him since he won, and I said 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:49.960 this to him and I meant it. I said, listen, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.480 I've been out on tour a lot, you know, pretty 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.640 much my entire life. I'm in my fifties now, I've 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.080 watched a lot of great players, and I mean this, 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:01.120 and I said this to him, I don't know. I mean, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.719 you can maybe say, I mean, obviously Tiger Woods is 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:06.520 the benchmark and all that, but I don't think, Mike, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:12.320 I've seen a player work harder day in day out. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.640 I mean, the work rate with Matt never stops. I mean, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.920 it never looks like he's ever taking in the times 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.040 that I see him at tournaments, Um, it doesn't look 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.199 like he's ever taking any days off. It doesn't ever 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.560 look like he's saying, hey, I'll just take the afternoon 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:29.360 off of phone and in today I'm a little tired 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.000 of men do this. I mean, as soon as he 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.240 gets done playing, as you mentioned, he's no. I mean 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.840 I've watched he get a little bit of food, but 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.199 he's back on the rage after every round hitting balls. 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.000 He's going through this this kind of process, and it 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.400 has been remarkable to watch the work rate that he's 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.160 got because that, as you know, Mike, that can be 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:57.560 unbelievably draining and taxing, on on on golfers and people. Yeah, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.920 we we've nobody I kind of remember anybody in his 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.960 team saying he needs to work harder. That we're more 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.079 often telling him to like put the brakes on and 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:12.199 take time, get maybe another hobby and stuff, because I mean, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.800 I can I feel like in points in my career 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.920 I've been a probably too into it and not taking 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.439 enough time off to reflect and things. And you just 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.880 kind of get into a treadmill, don't you. But but yeah, 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:29.079 he's he has to be careful at times that he 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:31.120 doesn't burn out. I would say that's more of the 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:35.880 worry rather than actually working harder. And yeah, I like 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.960 you said the benchmarks Tiger. I've never been on the 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.640 inside of that obviously, and all seems a bit elusive, 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:46.280 you know, from the outside looking in. But you hear 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.400 lots of stories, but you have. As for Matt, he's yeah, 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.600 he's he's incredible, how much he's dedicated to his to 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:58.200 his sports. I think a lot of people I think 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.680 in in sports might go also engulf is. He would 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.960 be an easy one for someone to kind of hone 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.160 in on and say, Okay, I'm gonna try and model 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.920 my game off of him. Um, but like all great 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.760 champions and all great players, I mean I look at 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.880 Matt and I think him him as being a complete outlier. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.120 I mean, he's not blessed with UM you know the 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.280 size and the speed of another one of your students 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.280 that you work with, Thomas Peters. I mean, Thomas is 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:31.680 very much in the DJ and Brooks and UM, you 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:34.800 know this modern player to where they're six two six three, 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.800 they've got speed to burn. They hit it miles um. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.719 Matt originally looked to me like he was more of 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.880 a plotter, that he had to kind of plot his 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:48.520 way around, plan his way around. UM. It would be 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.440 easy to say, okay, I don't hit it very far. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.559 I'm gonna try and use Matt as as a as 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.520 a gauge or as a as a blueprint. But how 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.960 many people could work that hard? I just don't think 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.600 most people. I say, you didn't hit it miles right, 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.480 and you weren't six to six three, you were Matt size. 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.480 He said, Okay, I'm gonna try and follow us. I 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.280 think most people would spend two weeks maximum month and 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.880 say I can't work this hard, and just I physically 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.800 can't work this hard to make the games that that 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.960 he's been able to make. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.000 keep making the same joke. I was kind of given 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:28.040 David not Goliath. And yeah, I mean I remember him 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.760 getting asked he went when he played Radical, his first Radical, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.040 which was probably one too early in the he tried 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.240 to go and get the memorabilier on the Sunday when 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.400 we all landed, and the guy behind the counter thought 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.640 he just played in the junior Radical companies. But but then, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.760 and I've mentioned to various people, are like Aaron Hills 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.560 stands out for me, and and then the Masters, the 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.559 COVID Masters in October when he played with he played 0:13:55.559 --> 0:14:00.200 with Brooks and JT that day, and and I I 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.920 was just thinking, I can't compete with these guys on 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.679 a on a sustaining level, no matter how straight he 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.880 hits it. And and and a lot of the statistics 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.640 people were saying, well, pick players who like Zach Johnson 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.600 to model yourself off, or Luke Donald. You know they 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.280 Luke don't got to number one in the world. But 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:20.040 then we decided to go down the like to try 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:24.160 and plug the gap distance wise. And I've heard of 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.400 Sashow through people like keV Duffy. Well, everybody says a 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.200 sashow in the golfing stream that. So we contacted him, 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.440 used him as a consultant to try and get him 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:38.920 up to um, say, one eighteen cruising speed club speed, 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.400 and that was two years ago and he's comfortably there now. 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:45.840 I mean he he sent me some TrackMan figures off 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.360 the range last week. It was like one three club speed, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.680 which is like, it's amazing for him. And yeah, and 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.960 I mean so before he started working with Sasha Mackenzie 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.960 and you guys went down the speed training roup because 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.080 I was going to ask you about that, because he 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.040 hits the golf ball now a hell of a lot 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.080 further than he used to hit it. Um, was that 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.840 a conscious decision from you guys on the team. Was 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.200 that his decision to say, okay, listen, you know I 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.680 play with great players. You know I hit it straight. 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:16.760 I don't miss a lot of fairways, you don't miss 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.880 a lot of greens. But to compete against people that 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.080 have faster cars than I do, it doesn't matter that 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.440 I'm getting around the track and not crashing it. Other 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.680 guys might be crashing the car, but I'm not crashing it. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.720 But they're driving it faster than I am. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:36.040 and and it's good these days in Gulf there's so 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.160 much information that you can get through into a team. 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.320 And all the statistics guys were saying, well, if he 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:42.920 can gain eight yards and retain his accuracy, you'll gain 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.400 however many shots around and if he can gain ten, twelve, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.000 and it was he was kind of aiming at top 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.680 ten in the world. It's not necessarily going for um 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.320 number one at that point. I think he probably is 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:01.160 now well, um, well, yeah, I think you kind of 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.800 had to be realistic about it. And I just felt 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.600 that he had to do something because of you know 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.280 what the game is like nowadays. It's every everybody's hitting 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.320 at miles and the college kids that are coming through 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.760 hitting even further than what it seems like, and it 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.520 just felt like something that kind of had to happen 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.360 if if we were to achieve the goals that he 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.120 was like demanding us to get to, you know, he 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:30.320 won't set it's not settling for second vessel or thirty 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.680 in the world. He was just he was aiming for 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.800 the top And like to say, your guy, Gustin, I'm 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:40.920 kind of seeing this athlete um six ft however tall 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.480 he is, and I'm thinking, how how are we gonna 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.120 get near him? So I'm not saying he's there yet. 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.880 Obviously he's only won one major, and but he's a 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.480 dam side closer than what he was. And I feel 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.560 like he could compete now, you know, on a on 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.920 a more regular basis, rather than just like turning up 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:01.120 at a course that suits you and putting well that week, 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.400 and you know, I feel like it can be more 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.840 of a sustained competition with the with the top guys. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.040 So pre um this this move to try and get 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.359 more speed that you went down. If you were in 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:17.800 a practice round and it's part five and he crushes one, 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:19.920 hits it straight out of the middle with the driver, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.359 and you're working with one of your guys, Thomas Peters, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:23.919 and he's in the in the group as well, and 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.080 Thomas middles one with the driver and hits one in 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.000 the middle of the at that time, a guy like 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.200 Thomas Peters who hits the golf on a long way, 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.680 how much further is he hitting it back? Then? Then, Matt, 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:42.040 is it fifteen yards? Twenty yards? Is thirty yards? I 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:46.439 would say it would be between thirties to fifty yards 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:52.600 further at that point. Um yeah, I feel like he 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.400 was around a one thirteen guy. Now he can kind 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.840 of push it to over one twenty like one two three, 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.280 and he can cruise it. I mean they're getting data 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.119 off the course now where he's at a one twenty, 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.159 you know, cruizing, which is massive, um for him. Huge. 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.360 So obviously everybody listening wants to hit the golf ball further. 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.520 I mean, everybody that's listening to this podcast would say, listen, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.119 give me seven, eight, nine, ten miles per hour in 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.320 clubhead speed and increase in ball speed to hit the 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.840 golf ball further. So dumb it down for us. How 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.600 did he go about doing it? What were some, in 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.600 your opinion, were some of the things that he worked 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.119 on with Sacho to try and gain the speed. And 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.040 when did you start to as to coach, watching this 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.880 process happen, when did you kind of go, Okay, we're 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:51.640 onto something here. Well, originally, you see, if if if 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.120 he'd have gone with the intent of achieving his absolute 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.879 max potential in terms of speed, you could have altered 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:07.240 his pattern. Um So, in simple terms, Matt's superpower his rotation. 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.240 But he doesn't have a lot of UM leverage. Yeah, 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.240 a lot of radical yeah exactly, So that would be 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:21.679 an area of potential. But I felt that it's so 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.240 it's that trade off between well, I would still need 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.720 to get fairways, but I need to gain length at 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.280 the same time, and we we came up with a 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:34.720 compromised our guests, I would say a compromise. I think 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.000 that I'm giving the impression that Sasha wanted to go 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.000 down changing his pattern, but it was definitely talked about 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.520 and between as we agreed on just doing kind of 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:50.360 overweight and underweight training with Sacho's Stack system UM and 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:54.080 maintaining his existing pattern because he was extremely accurate and 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.639 obviously you don't want to jeopardize that. So he m 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.240 he went down that route and it I don't know 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.200 how much you've used the stack system, but it comes 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.440 with the app, and the apps kind of monitoring his 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.760 progress a bit like a gym program, and so it's 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.000 it's like things that people have done before, but I'd 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.480 say it's it's a little bit more prescriptive and it 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:18.680 kind of molds with you as you start kind of 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:22.560 making games. And the spect of the STACK system is 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:28.199 heavy training and light training. Yeah, and regards to the 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:33.320 mixture of YAH rewards too weighted clots. Yeah, so it's 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.239 it's obviously a shaft with weights at the end that 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.119 you can put not many weights on. It would be 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.479 lighter than your than you drive away and you can 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.639 put you can stack it with lots of weight and 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.960 it'll be heavier. And yeah, that that's what he started doing. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.399 And he started getting organic swing changes, like back on 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:57.640 the byproducts of actually doing it, which came with its challenges. 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.800 Um good good to swing changes that kind of came 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:07.520 organically and um not some good ones. So yeah, it 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.040 did come with its challenges, that's for sure. And it 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.160 flared up fit you know, physio issues in his neck, 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:17.760 so's he's training. Matt Roberts was having to kind of 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.280 manage those all the time. And then when you when 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.479 you first start doing it, it gets kind of like 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.560 package to you saying, well, it's not it's not a driver. 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.200 You're not trying to get a fairway or a golf 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.040 or you're just trying to swing that rip this thing 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.920 as hard as you possibly can. Well in obviously things 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.080 start like transferring through. So he'd come on the range 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.280 and he's swings that it would start altering. So we 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.960 we basically tried to make it as as accurate as 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.080 possible while still like hitting it as hard as you 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:52.480 possibly can. But but yeah, I think it's been portrayed 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.840 in a in a light that it's dead easy and 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.080 you just start doing this and then and then, And 0:21:57.119 --> 0:21:59.920 it wasn't like that. It was definitely challenging at times. 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.720 The obviously it's it's great, but um, but yeah, he 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:09.000 he needed monitory. Yeah, I mean, I think people when 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.520 you are someone like Matt where your your game has 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:17.399 been built and designed around accuracy, um, hitting a lot 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.119 of fairways, hitting a lot of greens. I mean that was, 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:22.800 in my opinion, that was Matt's calling card. When you 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.480 all of a sudden take the car that he's driving 0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.160 and just start driving it faster, there is an element 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.960 of losing control of that because now swinging the golf 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.120 club faster. I've talked to Dave Phillips and Greg Rose 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:40.679 out at the title of Performance Institute. I think it 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:43.480 was Cameron Trengali that went out in Cameron Cam's made 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:46.440 some big gains in in distance and speed and picked 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:47.920 up a lot of club that's it. Hits the golf 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.000 ball up further now, and they brought him out and 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:52.400 he said, listen, I want to come out. I want 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:54.480