WEBVTT - What Elon Musk Could Learn from the #EndFathersDay Hoax 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.200 Welcome to Internet hate Machine. I'm Bridget and I'm joined 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.800 with my producer Sophie, and we are also so thrilled 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.280 to have our very first guest in the studio with us. 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.800 I am joined by the lovely Joel Monique. Joel, thank 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:15.000 you so much for being here, Hi, Bridget, what's up? 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.239 Thank you for having me so Joel. I have to 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.520 start by saying, like, you're a pretty prolific Twitter user. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.080 What has that been like for you as a black 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.960 woman with a pretty visible public profile on Twitter. I 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.479 really liked Twitter up until recently. Now it's causing me 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.280 headaches because I have to leave it. And I realized 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:38.200 that what I really like about it was the fact 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.040 that it's just words. How do you think about my image? 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:42.760 I'm not trying to tell you where I've been, Like, 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:44.880 I could just be like I really love this TV 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.879 show or the song rocks or sucks or whatever. You 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.360 can just so easily to share an opinion and it 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.280 can live there and you can respond or not respond, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.840 and it's been great. And I mean, yes, there have 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.680 always been assholes on Twitter, but my black fingers are strong. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.800 I'm not you know. I know. Maggie was like let 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:01.560 him talk, and I'm like, I can't. I'm not as 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.920 strong as you my knees nor my emotions. Apparently I 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.840 can't deal with people being mean, and so I just 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.920 blocked heavy and it's been a pretty smooth journey. And 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:19.080 now man, I'm on not Mams Sabertooth. I know it's Masthodon, Mastodon. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.080 There it is. I got me one of those don't 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.560 know how to use it yet. I presumeed my TikTok 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.640 name ages ago have never posted anything. So now I'm 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:30.119 just lurking in there, like do I want to come 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.960 to this space? How life? You know? On camera? All 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.280 that much? That frequently you know? And so I just 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.360 don't know. I don't know what I'm gonna do when 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.560 the trolls take over, but I do, like if I'm 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.120 looking for silver linings. Elon must downfall on this. He 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.880 spent so much money and people, really I can tell 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.000 because my follower account drops every day by like way 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.040 too many of you. I haven't posted anything controversial or like, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.040 no strong opinions as of late, and so I can 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:57.920 tell people are like and it's done. The worst part 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.920 those I have a black Lady professional group chat on 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:03.680 there that has been life saving, got me a lot 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.840 of jobs, got me through a lot of crap, like 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.040 has really helped solidify my career. And that check mark, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.040 you know, when I first got it, I was freelance 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:15.359 and it really boosted my profile and gave me a 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.760 lot of access that I didn't have previously. I do 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.200 worry about what's going to happen. You know, we're trying 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:22.720 to as a group or tegure out like where do 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:24.720 we go next, and we're just not quite sure what's 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.840 going to have that same kind of connection. So it's 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.400 been a whild ride on Twitter. That's such a good 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:33.919 point that you make about the access, particularly for folks 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.400 and industries that are more traditionally marginalized. It's different for 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:39.160 us to build up a platform, and it just has 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.160 the stakes are different. And you know, I'm also verified 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.880 on Twitter, and I do think that it's gotten me 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.160 into spaces and gotten me access that I don't think 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.080 I would have otherwise. And so like, if you're an 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:53.120 editor and I tweet something I've gotten the d M 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:54.959 that's like, oh, do you want to turn this into 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.200 a piece for us? And I would be lying if 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.080 I said that I wasn't going to miss that, But 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.840 you're right, like, who who wants to be on a 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:07.680 platform that is run by someone who has made it 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.200 clear that they don't really care about the safety of 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.440 the folks who are showing up on a platform like Twitter. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.200 I knew it was over when he was like, I'm 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.560 going to charge for verification. I was like, well, then 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.480 that defeats the point of verification, Like the check mark 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:23.680 was there solely. I know a lot of people think 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.320 it was like for a cloud that came with it, 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.480 But the initial thing was like this famous person that 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.360 you think you're talking to, that's actually them If they 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.480 have the check mark, no check mark, you don't know 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.640 who you're talking to. And I wonder like, if I 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.400 set up on account it's called like the Rock, can 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.920 I verify it? And then people think they're talking to 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:46.560 Dwayne the Rock Johnson, Like there's what value is there 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.080 in that check mark except that and and and the 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:51.800 cloud that came with it before. Now that you can 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.720 purchase it, I don't think companies or celebrities or anybody 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.720 who was following you because you had that check mark 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.160 is going to continue that behavior. I don't think people 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.440 are going to get booked jobs because they have the 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.920 checkmark once you can pay for it. When the when 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.320 the actual like transition happens and it's and you are 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.800 paying for it, I can't wait to find out who 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:14.400 actually is paying for it. That will that will because 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.159 it was again, unless if I was still freelanced, I 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.720 might because without the profile I have now, I think 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.920 I would still consider it because it did, like I said, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.800 coming so many jobs when I first got it, and 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.560 so I do feel bad for those people who are 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:31.400 like sort of on the cusp of having like a 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.200 well known career. That checkmark really sort of verifies a 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.840 lot for you. But yeah, as of now, like it 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.400 would be weird again unless people really feel the need 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.080 to try to verify, like yes, you're talking to me, 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.040 you know. I saw some actor the other day was 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.160 posting about how they don't like social media, but when 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.840 it first started, they got concerned messages from parents saying, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.480 why are you talking to my fifteen year old child, 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.840 and they were like, I'm not, and so that caused 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.719 it a whole downward spiral for them. And it's like, yeah, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.880 to your you know, bridge, and I just don't think 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.200 they care about safety that's clearly not an issue, and 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:10.080 there's so much danger online. We we've been known. We 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.560 grew up in the early odds. I remember early Internet 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:17.920 safety danger lessons and news reports, and so it's it's 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.320 weird to me that that's suddenly not a concern. So 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.760 I that's right. That you're talking about is actor Robert 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.440 Kazinski talking about, you know, what verification has meant for 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.880 him and his career as an actor. And I'm so 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:31.320 glad that you bring all of this up because it 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.960 really dovetails exactly into what I want to talk about today, 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:39.360 which is that's sort of dirty, messy business of people 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:43.320 being able to impersonate others on Twitter and the incredibly 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.760 high stakes that it comes with your experiences of maybe 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.159 wanting to leave the platform. Really set us up nicely 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.680 into that conversation because we know that Twitter has not 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.600 always banned the most secure platform, has not always delivered 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.279 a very secure experience for its users, and now with 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.840 Elon Musk at the helme, I think it's poised to 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.359 only get worse. And f y I we're recording this 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.800 on a Friday. My understanding is Twitter is planning on 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:14.160 rolling out this new pay to be verified system on Monday, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.760 so in just a couple of days, the same day 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.320 or like just days before firing half their staff and 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.440 a day before a fucking election. So I'm I'm very concerned, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.560 and I think that my concerns have real historical precedent, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.440 which I want to get into right now. So, a 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.840 classic bad actor tactic is pretending to be somebody that 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.800 you're not on social media, specifically to create confusion and 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.720 to stabilize online spaces. Right, Like, this is probably not 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.800 a surprise to you, Joel, This is like something we 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:48.680 all have mainly know, right, yes, And I think something 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.520 that really just burns me up about this is that 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.559 it's very much unknown tactic. Right. The leadership at social 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.640 media platforms like Twitter and Facebook have been made well 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.240 aware that this is a tactic that bad actors used 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.200 to threaten the security of their platforms, but they have 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.960 really done fuck all to prevent it from happening, and, 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.080 in the case of Twitter, or maybe making it easier 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:12.320 to happen, which is a real head scratcher. So another 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.600 classic bad act or tactic is inflaming existing tensions around 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.040 groups of people who are traditionally marginalized, right and so 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.880 that is a common day. Yeah, who who would have 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.720 guessed it right, that that would be a common tactic 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.200 to distabilized communities. So what happened around End Father's Day, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.280 around we don't want to talk about today? That's like 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.239 one of the reasons why I think it's so important 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.560 because it utilized both of those tactics to hijack and 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:44.280 exploit conversations around feminism, race, and gender online. And it's 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:48.080 really concerning because you know, it's concerning that our social 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.240 media platforms are so easily gamified in this way and 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.480 that social media platforms aren't really doing anything to prevent it. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.840 So let's talk about End Father's Day. To really understand 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.320 what the fun was going on with End Father's Day, 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:07.320 you really need to understand what Fortune was calling Operation Lollipop, 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:12.000 and essentially Operations Lollipop was this campaign to create fake 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:17.080 activist causes on social media. Basically, people on Fortune, trolls, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.480 bad actors, whatever you want to call them, would pose 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:25.360 as feminists of color, so like black feminists, brown feminists, etcetera, 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.760 and essentially try to get people to agree with these 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.320 bogus campaigns. They would start and just generally try to 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.560 seed conflict with one another. The whole point is to 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:40.599 create confusion inflame tensions, generally to make feminists look like 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.079 a bunch of you know, crazy man haters whose causes 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.720 have no merit and who can't even agree with one another. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.600 This is so wild when you see it happen just 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.800 organically on your timeline, where you'll be like, so, here's 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.680 a picture of you know, some as a black woman, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:03.920 sometimes a black man using way too much like currently 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:08.120 popular and the guy's black lingo, where you're like, they're like, yeah, 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.480 no cap. You be like, I don't know if the 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.439 situation necessarily calls for a no cap and yeah, And 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.079 then you go on their page and they follow a 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.400 bunch of people, but maybe only have like a handful 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.520 of followers. Most of their tweets are retweets. It's they 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.720 become easier to spot the more you come across them organically. 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.480 But it's very strange to be like this is this 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.360 like internet black face, and it's annoying and upsetting and 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.000 again ruining these spaces that have you know, I know 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.840 some people don't agree with the idea that there's community 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.240 on these spaces, but I just think that for somebody 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.800 who has found a great group of friends that I 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:51.680 meet with regularly. I r L who you know again 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.720 uses a space and platforms for for job opportunities, Like 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.559 it does feel communal to me, and it does feel 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:02.960 almost it's just invasive. It's invasive to have people come 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:05.679 into those communities and try to erect them in that way. 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.760 The reason why these bad actors pretending to be black 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.520 women were exposed, it's exactly what you just picked up 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:15.200 on when they use language where you're like, I don't 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.200 know if a black person would actually say no cab 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.720 in this situation. I don't know that a black person 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.480 would actually say, you know, as a black I think 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.800 Trump is lit little things where you're like, my spidy 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.920 since it's tingling, I don't know if you're a black 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.400 woman like you say you are Twitter user like five 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:42.320 five six seven. And I think this is one of 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.760 the reasons why I am always kind of screaming from 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.400 the rooftops that this kind of disinformation and media manipulation 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.160 is a clear racial and gender justice issue because bad 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.559 actors and trolls know that exploiting and inflaming these legitimate 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:02.080 like tensions and trigger points per particularly between marginalized groups 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:04.920 can really work because it does tap into these like 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.600 legitimate traumas and baggage and anxieties that we do have. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:10.880 You know, the experience of being a black woman, or 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.520 a queer person, or a trans person, or really any 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.480 kind of marginalized identity in the United States is often 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:21.360 marked with these very real historical traumas and baggage. And 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.200 so people who are interested in using the Internet to 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.000 spread chaos target marginalized people, and they do it by 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.439 tapping into these existing traumas. And you know, a good 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.280 example is like, as we approach the midterm elections, the 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.160 kind of disinformation that we're seeing around the election is 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.240 really meant to dissuade people of color from voting. You know, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.520 they tend to do this via things like fogus images 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.160 purporting to show ice making arrests of undocumented people at 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.920 polling places, or you know, images warning that, oh, you know, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.280 when you go to vote, they're gonna be checking if 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.040 you have outstanding warrants when you do try to vote, right, 0:11:56.320 --> 0:12:00.000 These lies that are clearly meant to tap into very 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.400 real fears and anxieties that black and brown folks have 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.280 around being criminalized in the United States. So it plays 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:10.320 on these like real traumas that we have in ways 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.480 that exploit these things, these like tensions that we carry 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:15.800 around just by virtue of being a marginalized person in 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:21.080 the United States. Yeah, it's sinister when you essentially try 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.920 to brainwash someone into acting in their own disinterest, right, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:30.360 particularly when we're talking about voting, This idea of if 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.120 you exercise, you're right, there's a threat there and you 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.680 should avoid that threa at all costs. It's it's really cruel. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.200 And the craziest thing is like when we see a 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.680 lot of like who is participating in these acts, Like 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.040 it's either very young kids who've been indoctrinated over many 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:55.200 years YouTube fix your system, or like old people who 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.480 again have been indoctrinated mostly by Fox News slash Fox 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.960 News to feel it's and that sort of gets really 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.040 under my skin, to this idea of either people who 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.120 should know better or people who never had a chance 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.880 to learn better doing so much damage. You know, I'm 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:15.080 really glad that you framed it that way. It's sometimes 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.120 difficult for me, but I always try to remember that, 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.800 like it's not necessarily the individual, it's like systems and 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:24.880 institutions that are getting rich and profiting off of, you know, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.760 misleading individuals in this way. It can be hard to 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.120 remember that when I'm like, why can't you just not 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.720 fall for this? But you're exactly right that sum is 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:38.800 a very effective tool that is being wielded expertly right now. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.360 It's hard because you do you do. Your instinct is 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.839 to just get angry about it. You know, I am 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.440 angry about it, But at the same time, I know 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:53.080 my anger can't resolve the issue. And so my hope 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.120 is that more white mothers, if we're just being very 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.200 honest about it, are figuring out ways to talk to 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.319 their young sons about how to better navigate the internet, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.200 are making sure they're putting up roadblocks and interventions where necessary. 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.199 You know, I think that's the only way we can 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.640 hope to really get ahead of this, because it seems 0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.040 to be a wave that isn't stopping anytime soon. Unfortunately. 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.120 I think that you are correct. Um So, when we 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.040 look at end Father's Day and the kind of tensions 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.400 and traumas historically that that campaign really tapped into, it's 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.040 this clear wedge between black women and white women. And 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:30.840 on the one hand, I kind of get it. You know, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:34.120 for a very long time, black feminists have not always 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:38.400 felt meaningfully represented or centered by white feminists. If you 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:42.120 look at early the early Suffragette movement, for instance, they 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.479 left black women's voting rights out of their advocacy altogether 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.720 as a strategic turn. It's not your turn, they said, 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.640 we're not for women, we are for white women, exactly right. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.280 And so when you look a little further in time, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.080 you know white feminists writing about things like being stuck 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:01.640 at home with domestic duties, they weren't really talking to 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.640 Black women. They were not centering our lived experience in 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.960 their in their advocacy. In that way, this reminds me 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.400 of the Health when if for listeners, if you don't 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.640 know anything about the help or how it was crafted. Uh, 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.960 a guy, a white man from the South, was essentially 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:23.040 writing and from the perspective of his childhood maids. And 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.160 when you go into a larger cinematic history and you 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.280 understand birth of a nation and how a lot of 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.680 that was sort of you know, the guy who crafted 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.040 that was so proud of it. He invited again a 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:36.720 childhood made who taking care of him, who was not 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.920 taking care of his son uh and she she left 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.480 service after that. She said you were a racist and 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:46.360 this is ridiculous and I'm going to bounce. But yeah, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.400 this idea that there's so much space available and so 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.400 much um I want to say, like bad blood, but 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:59.200 definitely four hundred years of oppression and discord that we 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.320 have to advocate. It's a it's an easy place to 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:06.080 spark a fire, exactly that right, and so these tensions 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.560 are very much still with us today. Author of Mickey Kendall, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.040 who wrote an excellent book called Hood Feminism, which you 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.520 should definitely get if you have not read it. I 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.440 love it. It's one of my favorite books. Basically, her 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.680 book is all about the ways that white feminism have 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.640 left the most marginalized women behind in their causes. Here's 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.360 Mickey Kendall speaking to now This News about her work 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.080 with hood feminism. Hood feminism is about survival because for 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.120 those who are facing all of these issues from gun 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.200 violence the housing, their first concern has to be staying 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.800 alive long enough to fight for their rights. The movement 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.280 has to do a better job of addressing displacement and 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.760 hunger if it expects support for reproductive justice marches or 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:45.760 for electing the first woman to be president of the 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.280 United States. It's hard to believe that women will be 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.400 better leaders when the feminist women you've seen gaining power 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.360 not only don't help you, but are likely to actively 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:59.240 participate in harmony. Okay, I think that gives a good 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.800 sense of it. But Nickey, yes, So Mickey Kendall started 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:07.200 the hashtag. Hashtag solidarity is for white women to really 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.920 have a real conversation about the ways that feminists, white 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.400 feminist namely had really failed Black women. And a great 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.960 example of this is that a sensibly feminist organizations and 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:21.480 outlets continue to have a relationship with a white male 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.280 writer named Hugo Schweizer. You don't know who that is. 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.000 Hugo Schweiser is a passage or was a Pacadya City 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.320 College professor of history and gender studies, a blogger, and 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:35.760 a self described male feminist who wrote about feminism. I know, like, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.840 is there anything more of a warning than someone who 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.399 was a self proclaimed male feminist? Right? Uh? And he 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.760 really like he had that's at this time he did 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.800 have a like pretty big footprint on online feminist basis. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.680 He wrote about feminism for places like The Atlantic and 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.960 Jez bell Um and some other like feminist sites in 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.280 the sort of ecosystem of online feminism back in the 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:04.119 two fourteen era. Here's a little taste of Hugo speaking 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:07.680 at a slot walk in l A. For too long, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.719 there's been division in the feminist community over the issues 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.080 of sexuality and sex work, and that's one of the 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:23.520 things we are here to end today. So I wrote 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.520 a little speech, and I can't read a speech. Um, 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:32.280 I have to say, it is very difficult to stand 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.720 up here as a man after the stories that you've 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.879 just heard and that I've heard as well. The fact 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.520 is that we've heard a series of very personal, very powerful, 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:48.280 very painful accounts of sexual violence, and in every one 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.280 of those cases, the violence was committed by men against women. 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.080 And while it is true that men can also be 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.639 the victims of sexual violence, and while it is true 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:59.240 that in a few cases women can be the perpetrators 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.119 of sexual violence, there is no question that the vast 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:07.440 majority of sexual violence is men assaulting women. And part 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.359 of the reason why we allow that to continue, and 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.439 part of the reason why the words slut continues to 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.879 have its enormous power in our lives, is because of 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.360 a myth we believe in and a myth we need 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.280 to march against today. It's a myth I call the 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.640 myth of male weakness. All right, I think you get 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.920 the idea there. So you know something to know about 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.600 Hugo Schweizer is that he his thing was kind of 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:38.000 being this sort of reformed bad boy, like bad boy 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.359 turned feminist. He wrote, really, yeah, so that was what 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.400 like that? That was his like being that I would 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.400 say allowed him to kind of grow in his public profile. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.680 He wrote very openly about how when he was struggling 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.280 with addiction issues, he tried to murder his girlfriend by 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.240 turning on the gas stove in their apartment. And he 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.439 also wrote about having sexual flings with his female students 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:05.800 when he was a professor. So it's interesting that he 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:07.440 would get up on a stage at a slut walk 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:11.240 and talk about like man, this man of male weakness, 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.160 blah blah blah. Here's the other thing. If you are 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.280 coming to a marginalized community and you are not actively 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.320 a member of that marginalized community, and then you speak 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.000 on behalf of that marginalized community, you have not fully 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:30.480 done your work or your research, Like there's that time 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.720 should have been given to an actual woman, like any 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:36.800 woman with any kind of sense could have taken that 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.359 spot and done what you did in much much better. Uh. 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:44.679 That is foolish and ridiculous. Yes, absolutely, And you know 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.959 who didn't let any of that ship slide? Black women? 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.720 They were no. Black women have been calling this guy 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.840 out for a very long time, and he was really 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:58.399 able to use this behavior test a mass power at 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.360 a public profile in online feminist spaces for a long time. 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.960 When black women would speak up against him, he would 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.960 like attack them pretty pretty horribly on social media. And 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.440 despite all this, he was able to really remain this 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.840 kind of feminist darling writing for you know, ostensibly feminist 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.040 outlets like jez Bell that had this large white woman 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.840 readership and writership. He ended up having this public meltdown 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.600 on Twitter in which he all but admitted all of 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.199 this behavior. He talked about how he didn't really have 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.360 the educational credentials to be teaching a class on feminism 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:34.600 at the college level, and yet he did it anyway. 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.080 He talked about how he had been trashing black women 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.760 and he kind of apologized for it and all of that. 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:42.719 So all of these things that black women had been 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.200 accusing him of this whole time and basically have been 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.560 had been going ignored, he admitted in a meltdown on Twitter. 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.600 But it seems like when he admitted all this in 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:57.960 his meltdown, but the white feminists and the websites who 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.560 who were frequented by those white feminist they didn't really 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.800 take ownership of what they had done to allow him 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.119