WEBVTT - How Desire Actually Works 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:27.636 Pushkin, and I'm going in I have a question for you. 0:00:28.236 --> 0:00:31.756 I still want to want it. It's not that I 0:00:31.796 --> 0:00:35.836 don't want her. I do intellectually, but I don't know 0:00:35.916 --> 0:00:39.276 if I'm just having trouble getting myself excited about sex 0:00:39.316 --> 0:00:42.076 and my partner wants to have it and it's making 0:00:42.196 --> 0:00:49.836 both of us sad. Yes, this question, it is the question, right, 0:00:49.876 --> 0:00:53.236 It's the question I get from people in long term 0:00:53.276 --> 0:00:58.796 relationships of any structure. And the answer is, there's nothing wrong. 0:00:59.436 --> 0:01:03.316 If you want to want your partner. You want your partner, 0:01:03.756 --> 0:01:06.836 You're all set. Everything you need now is just knowing 0:01:06.836 --> 0:01:10.916 how to get from wanting your partner to a context 0:01:10.956 --> 0:01:14.316 where sexy times seems like the best idea you could 0:01:14.316 --> 0:01:16.436 be having right now. And I have some science that 0:01:16.476 --> 0:01:23.396 will help with that. I'm Emmilinagaski and this is the 0:01:23.436 --> 0:01:26.396 Come as you Are podcast where our I answer questions 0:01:26.396 --> 0:01:30.996 about sex with science. In this episode, I'm going to 0:01:31.036 --> 0:01:36.236 explain another mind blowing fundamental lesson in the science of 0:01:36.316 --> 0:01:42.996 sex desire. What even is it? How does it actually work? 0:01:42.996 --> 0:01:46.276 Why does it sometimes change? And why does it sometimes 0:01:46.316 --> 0:01:48.956 feel like we lose touch with it? It turns out 0:01:49.236 --> 0:01:53.316 the narrative we've been sold from TV and movies where 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:57.476 two people are suddenly struck with a spontaneous and simultaneous 0:01:57.596 --> 0:02:02.796 desire for sex out of the blue. It doesn't usually 0:02:02.836 --> 0:02:06.196 work that way, particularly in a long term relationships. I mean, yes, 0:02:06.396 --> 0:02:08.876 it absolutely is one of the normal, healthy ways to 0:02:09.116 --> 0:02:14.516 sperience sexual desire. But there is another very common way 0:02:14.556 --> 0:02:19.276 to experience desire that we don't usually see in the media. 0:02:19.716 --> 0:02:23.596 It's called responsive desire. And when I describe how it 0:02:23.636 --> 0:02:28.956 works in relationships, it might sound really familiar. Let's get 0:02:28.996 --> 0:02:32.996 into the science of how and when we feel sexual 0:02:33.036 --> 0:02:39.156 desire and when we don't. I'm answering a listener question 0:02:39.236 --> 0:02:43.156 today and as always bringing me today's listener question is 0:02:43.196 --> 0:02:46.916 my producer, mo Hi, mo Hey, Emily. How are you doing? 0:02:46.996 --> 0:02:50.396 How's it going? I'm doing great? How are you you know? 0:02:50.796 --> 0:02:52.916 I'm doing all right. How are you feeling now that 0:02:52.996 --> 0:02:54.996 the show is out in the world where a few 0:02:54.996 --> 0:02:58.636 episodes in? How does it feel? You know? It's when 0:02:58.636 --> 0:03:00.676 you write a book, like you spend all this time 0:03:00.756 --> 0:03:03.036 by yourself with your editor, just like writing a book, 0:03:03.036 --> 0:03:05.196 and then it's out there and people can read it, 0:03:05.516 --> 0:03:08.596 and that's sort of it. But with a podcast. You 0:03:08.676 --> 0:03:11.316 put it out there and people can respond, and then 0:03:11.316 --> 0:03:13.716 you make some more podcasts and people can respond. So 0:03:13.756 --> 0:03:16.876 it's a dynamic and I'm enjoying that. Yeah, it's like 0:03:16.956 --> 0:03:20.716 more of a conversation with the listeners. Yeah, it reminds 0:03:20.716 --> 0:03:24.316 me of when I wrote a blog. I often say 0:03:24.356 --> 0:03:26.956 we're like in the blog spot era of podcasting, like 0:03:26.996 --> 0:03:29.156 we're in such a wild West era that it feels 0:03:29.156 --> 0:03:32.476 like we're in blog spotting. Yeah. Well, so I chose 0:03:32.516 --> 0:03:35.756 today's question because we've gotten a lot of questions like 0:03:35.836 --> 0:03:38.516 this one, and basically I'm calling it that I want 0:03:38.556 --> 0:03:41.756 to want it question, Like, ah, I wish that I 0:03:41.796 --> 0:03:44.596 had more desire for my partner. I really love being 0:03:44.636 --> 0:03:47.236 in the relationship. I'm happy with them. I want to 0:03:47.236 --> 0:03:51.076 be with them long term, but right I just don't 0:03:51.076 --> 0:03:53.116 want it like I used to. And that is a 0:03:53.196 --> 0:03:55.596 question that I have seen come up again and again 0:03:55.756 --> 0:03:59.396 in the listener mailbox. So I wanted to get your 0:03:59.396 --> 0:04:02.156 take on this one, like really early on in this series, 0:04:02.316 --> 0:04:06.156 because whether someone's experiencing it right now or not, it 0:04:06.316 --> 0:04:08.116 is the kind of question that I think a lot 0:04:08.156 --> 0:04:12.036 of us who are in long term sexual romantic relationships 0:04:12.076 --> 0:04:16.436 will encounter yes, any relationship that lasts long enough, you're 0:04:16.476 --> 0:04:19.476 going to experience this. Okay, So are you ready to 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:24.196 hear the full question? Yes, Hi, Emily. My name is Taylor. 0:04:24.356 --> 0:04:26.596 I use they then pronouns, and I have a question 0:04:26.676 --> 0:04:30.876 about sex, drive or libido. So I have this incredible, 0:04:31.076 --> 0:04:34.436 beautiful girlfriend, and when we first met, we had this 0:04:34.556 --> 0:04:38.356 extreme sexual attraction. We wanted to have sex all the time. 0:04:38.676 --> 0:04:41.036 We couldn't keep our hands off each other. But since 0:04:41.076 --> 0:04:44.476 we moved in together this year, I'm just wanting sex less. 0:04:45.356 --> 0:04:47.956 I don't know what it is. I know my feelings 0:04:47.956 --> 0:04:50.676 for her haven't changed. I still feel attracted to her, 0:04:51.076 --> 0:04:55.436 so that's not the problem. Maybe it's that I'm stressed 0:04:55.476 --> 0:05:00.236 out about money and my job, but I still want 0:05:00.316 --> 0:05:03.356 to want it. It's not that I don't want her. 0:05:04.116 --> 0:05:07.716 I do intellectually, but I don't know if I'm just 0:05:07.836 --> 0:05:11.236 having trouble getting mysel excited about sex and my partner 0:05:11.276 --> 0:05:15.036 wants to have it and it's making both of us sad. 0:05:15.796 --> 0:05:17.996 So I don't know what's wrong with me? Is there 0:05:17.996 --> 0:05:26.276 something I can do about it? Thanks? Oh, Taylor, there's 0:05:26.316 --> 0:05:28.236 nothing wrong with you, and yes there is things you 0:05:28.276 --> 0:05:33.956 can do about it. This is a perfect question. Honestly, 0:05:34.116 --> 0:05:36.076 the book I'm working on right now about sex and 0:05:36.116 --> 0:05:39.236 long term relationships was born out of me having the 0:05:39.316 --> 0:05:43.196 same experience. Really, yeah, you're this is very much on 0:05:43.196 --> 0:05:45.916 the top of your mind. Absolutely. I think about it 0:05:45.996 --> 0:05:48.436 all the time, and I have done a lot of 0:05:48.476 --> 0:05:51.876 work to understand what people can do when they find 0:05:51.956 --> 0:05:54.476 themselves in this situation in order to make their sex 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:59.476 lives still just as delightful as when they were super 0:05:59.596 --> 0:06:02.756 hot and heavy horny for each other. So in our 0:06:02.796 --> 0:06:06.316 second episode, Emily, you talked about the science of horniness, 0:06:06.876 --> 0:06:10.636 and you talked about the dual control model, which is 0:06:10.716 --> 0:06:14.836 like the one oh one of how sexual response works. 0:06:14.876 --> 0:06:18.396 We have the breaks and the accelerator and those all 0:06:18.396 --> 0:06:20.716 come together in a unique way inside all of us 0:06:20.756 --> 0:06:25.356 to form our sexual response. But today we're talking about 0:06:25.916 --> 0:06:29.796 the experience of desire. Can you talk about the difference 0:06:29.876 --> 0:06:34.276 between horniness and desire? Like, why do you think of 0:06:34.316 --> 0:06:38.996 these as separate categories and what's the difference? Well, ultimately, 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:41.996 any question about sexual response is a question about the 0:06:42.036 --> 0:06:46.276 dual control model. But when researchers and therapists study and 0:06:46.396 --> 0:06:49.996 talk about sexual response, they break it down into four pieces. 0:06:50.716 --> 0:06:54.356 One is the arousal piece, which is the activation of 0:06:54.396 --> 0:06:57.636 your brain's accelerator and the deactivation of the breaks, which 0:06:58.036 --> 0:07:00.956 in turn results in the activation of the body. Right, 0:07:01.156 --> 0:07:05.636 that's the arousal process. There's orgasm, which is the specific 0:07:05.676 --> 0:07:10.276 experience of releasing all the tension in your body that's 0:07:10.276 --> 0:07:15.076 been generated by that arousal. There's pleasure, which is the 0:07:15.076 --> 0:07:19.116 foundation of everything. It's your brain's interpretation of your body 0:07:19.236 --> 0:07:23.236 sensations as positive. Right. So tickling the one we talk 0:07:23.276 --> 0:07:26.796 about all the time. Pleasure is when tickling feels good 0:07:27.276 --> 0:07:30.076 versus if someone tickles you and it doesn't feel good. 0:07:30.116 --> 0:07:32.796 It's the same sensation, but it doesn't feel good because 0:07:32.796 --> 0:07:35.516 the context is different. That's the science of the pleasure part. 0:07:36.116 --> 0:07:40.796 And then there's desire. So where pleasure is about liking 0:07:40.836 --> 0:07:47.676 a sensation, desire is about wanting those sensations. So all 0:07:47.716 --> 0:07:50.956 four pieces arousal, orgasm, pleasure, desire, these are all parts 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:53.556 of the sexual response. And you know what the one 0:07:53.596 --> 0:07:59.436 people worry about the most desire. It is the number 0:07:59.436 --> 0:08:03.196 one reason why couples seek sex therapy is for a 0:08:03.236 --> 0:08:09.796 desire differential or a change in desire. Interesting, So, what 0:08:10.356 --> 0:08:13.196 science do we need to understand about desire. To answer 0:08:13.236 --> 0:08:18.516 Taylor's question, Okay, so the story we are usually told 0:08:18.836 --> 0:08:21.756 about desire, The way I thought desire worked until I 0:08:21.796 --> 0:08:26.396 got to grad school is that it just arrives out 0:08:26.396 --> 0:08:29.316 of the blue, spontaneous. Here walking down the street, and 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:32.396 suddenly you just are interested in sex, or you're thinking 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:34.396 about sex and you would like to have some sex, 0:08:34.396 --> 0:08:36.596 and you go home to your partner and you really 0:08:36.596 --> 0:08:39.196 hope that your partner also is interested in some sex. 0:08:39.316 --> 0:08:42.916 Right now, that's spontaneous desire. It is absolutely one of 0:08:42.916 --> 0:08:47.396 the normal, healthy ways to experience desire. And there is 0:08:47.396 --> 0:08:52.796 another normal, healthy way to experience desire. It's called responsive desire. 0:08:52.876 --> 0:08:57.756 Where that spontaneous desire emerges in anticipation of the pleasure 0:08:57.756 --> 0:09:02.796 of sex. Responsive desire emerges in response to the pleasure 0:09:02.956 --> 0:09:05.596 of sex. So instead of it being just like, out 0:09:05.636 --> 0:09:08.596 of the blue, woo, I would like sex now, it's 0:09:08.676 --> 0:09:13.076 that you show up regardless of how you feel in 0:09:13.116 --> 0:09:16.316 the moment. There's a quick analogy that I learned from 0:09:16.316 --> 0:09:20.436 a sex therapist named Christine Hyde. She talking to her clients, says, 0:09:20.436 --> 0:09:22.476 if you imagine your best friend invite you to a party, 0:09:23.036 --> 0:09:24.956 of course you say yes because it's your best friend 0:09:24.956 --> 0:09:27.516 and a party. But you know, as that data approaches, 0:09:27.556 --> 0:09:29.956 you start going, I don't know how to find childcare. 0:09:30.836 --> 0:09:33.556 Traffic is going to be heavy. I'm not really going 0:09:33.596 --> 0:09:35.356 to want to put on my party clothes at the 0:09:35.436 --> 0:09:38.396 end of a long week. But you know what you 0:09:38.396 --> 0:09:40.956 said you would go, So you put on your party clothes, 0:09:41.196 --> 0:09:43.036 you drive through the traffic, and you show up to 0:09:43.076 --> 0:09:46.596 the party. And what happens then a lot of the 0:09:46.636 --> 0:09:50.356 time you have fun at the party right, And if 0:09:50.396 --> 0:09:53.556 you are having fun at the party, you are doing 0:09:53.596 --> 0:09:59.196 it right. That's responsive desire and it's normal, and that 0:09:59.356 --> 0:10:01.636 is the way a lot of couples and long term 0:10:01.636 --> 0:10:05.156 relationships structure their whole sex lives. Most of the time, 0:10:06.236 --> 0:10:07.916 you were not doing it wrong if that's how you're 0:10:07.956 --> 0:10:10.916 doing it, as long as you like what is happening. 0:10:11.196 --> 0:10:14.636 And the caveat here is that if you show up 0:10:14.676 --> 0:10:18.996 to the party and it is not fun, there is 0:10:19.076 --> 0:10:22.396 no amount of looking forward to that party that's going 0:10:22.436 --> 0:10:25.676 to make that party worth going to. That makes a 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:29.916 lot of sense. Also been to that party metaphorically and literally. 0:10:30.236 --> 0:10:35.316 And can you just describe how is responsive desire working 0:10:35.676 --> 0:10:37.716 in the brain, Like what is going on in the 0:10:37.756 --> 0:10:42.636 brain during responsive and spontaneous desire. Yeah, so the cool 0:10:42.716 --> 0:10:46.596 thing is the same thing is happening fundamentally in both 0:10:46.716 --> 0:10:51.276 spontaneous and responsive desire. There's very little difference. So your 0:10:51.516 --> 0:10:53.876 breaks are noticing all the good reasons not to be 0:10:53.956 --> 0:10:57.396 turned on, and they're staying on, or else they're turning 0:10:57.396 --> 0:11:00.396 off because those reasons are going away. And your accelerator 0:11:00.516 --> 0:11:03.236 is noticing all the sex related stimuli in the environment 0:11:03.276 --> 0:11:05.316 and is either sending a turn on signal or not. 0:11:05.876 --> 0:11:08.996 And as your context changes, the amount of stimulation to 0:11:09.276 --> 0:11:14.076 those brain functions changes, and at a certain point, the 0:11:14.156 --> 0:11:21.036 balance of accelerator being hit and breaks releasing crosses a 0:11:21.076 --> 0:11:26.596 threshold into your awareness of being motivated to pursue sex. 0:11:27.076 --> 0:11:30.236 Huh does that make sense. It's a simple sort of 0:11:30.276 --> 0:11:34.356 like addition subtraction problem, like turn on more of the ons, 0:11:34.436 --> 0:11:37.436 turn off more of the offs, and eventually you get 0:11:37.476 --> 0:11:39.036 to a point when you're like, oh, would be very 0:11:39.036 --> 0:11:43.196 interested in having sex. The only difference between spontaneous versus 0:11:43.196 --> 0:11:46.236 responsive desire is the point at which you get there 0:11:46.876 --> 0:11:51.716 is a lower level of stimulation for spontaneous desire. You're 0:11:51.756 --> 0:11:54.996 interested in sex before you're aware of being aroused and 0:11:55.116 --> 0:12:01.036 before you're actually in a sexy scenario. Whereas responsive desire 0:12:01.396 --> 0:12:05.916 it takes more explicit stimulation, more explicit arousal, before you 0:12:05.916 --> 0:12:10.236 have that awareness of like, oh oh yes, please this 0:12:11.716 --> 0:12:17.596 m okay. Maybe I'm like slow just to get this concept. 0:12:17.676 --> 0:12:21.676 But I need to stop for a clarification about responsive desire, 0:12:21.716 --> 0:12:25.996 because every time you're talking about it responsive desire starting 0:12:27.076 --> 0:12:34.076 in response to pleasure. I basically imagine that somebody doesn't 0:12:34.076 --> 0:12:37.836 have any desire until they actually start having sex, and 0:12:37.876 --> 0:12:41.876 then they're like, oh now I want it. Now I'm 0:12:41.956 --> 0:12:46.196 feeling into it, like now that I'm being literally genitally stimulated, 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:50.036 now I'm feeling desire, Like that's what I hear sometimes 0:12:50.116 --> 0:12:52.796 when you're describing responsive desire. But I feel like that 0:12:52.876 --> 0:12:55.996 can't be right. Okay, yeah, no, it can't be right. 0:12:56.036 --> 0:12:58.876 And it's so important that you asked that question. I'm sorry, 0:13:00.196 --> 0:13:02.516 and okay, I'm going to tell you a story about 0:13:04.156 --> 0:13:07.716 a couple that I spoke with. Both of them had PhDs. 0:13:07.916 --> 0:13:10.756 Both of them had read the book. They understood everything 0:13:10.796 --> 0:13:16.036 that I had written. Unfortunately, Okay, so it's the pandemic. 0:13:16.116 --> 0:13:19.516 They have a young child, married husband and wife two 0:13:19.596 --> 0:13:23.156 sis gender heterosexual people. And she puts the child to bed. 0:13:23.596 --> 0:13:25.276 She comes and sits down next to him on the 0:13:25.316 --> 0:13:28.236 couch and they're gonna watch something they have both read, 0:13:28.276 --> 0:13:31.396 Come as you are. He has read about responsive desire. 0:13:31.516 --> 0:13:35.516 And he literally puts his hand down her pants. Oh, 0:13:35.556 --> 0:13:38.436 when she has just finished a long day and put 0:13:38.436 --> 0:13:41.316 their child to bed, He's like right to the clit. 0:13:41.596 --> 0:13:45.716 And she's like, no, no, thank you, I don't want 0:13:45.756 --> 0:13:49.356 this right now. And he says, he says, oh gosh, 0:13:49.396 --> 0:13:54.436 he says, but you will. Oh no, okay, right, See 0:13:54.476 --> 0:13:58.036 that is my concern. Yeah. I was mortified when I 0:13:58.076 --> 0:14:03.356 heard the story, and I clarified, like, pleasure first, not 0:14:03.476 --> 0:14:07.436 just stimulation. Pleasure first. The advice is not to just 0:14:07.516 --> 0:14:09.956 like go do it. It's to create a context where 0:14:09.996 --> 0:14:13.516 it is easy for your brain to interpret these sensations 0:14:13.556 --> 0:14:18.676 as pleasurable. Create a context that makes pleasure easy, right right. 0:14:18.836 --> 0:14:22.756 So my problem in understanding this is that my definition 0:14:22.756 --> 0:14:25.956 of pleasure is so narrow that it's like clatoral stimulation. 0:14:26.316 --> 0:14:29.316 But actually I need to like build out the whole 0:14:29.316 --> 0:14:33.396 world of what could be pleasurable, including just like a 0:14:33.476 --> 0:14:39.396 good conversation, etc. Yeah. No, I will never give the 0:14:39.476 --> 0:14:43.276 advice to just do it. The advice is to create 0:14:43.316 --> 0:14:52.196 a context that makes pleasure easy. Yeah. Context, Context is 0:14:52.396 --> 0:14:54.756 one of your favorite things to talk about. I'm learning 0:14:55.316 --> 0:14:59.196 and I feel like so much of good sex is 0:14:59.196 --> 0:15:03.996 about setting the right context. Okay, I want to take 0:15:04.036 --> 0:15:06.036 a break, and when we get back, I want to 0:15:06.076 --> 0:15:09.556 talk about how Taylor and all of us can make 0:15:09.636 --> 0:15:26.876 contexts in our lives that make pleasure easy. So, Emily, 0:15:26.996 --> 0:15:30.236 we are talking today about a I want to want 0:15:30.236 --> 0:15:34.436 my partner question about a desire differential between a couple 0:15:34.476 --> 0:15:37.436 that seems to be really happy, really in love, they 0:15:37.476 --> 0:15:39.916 want to be together for a long time, but they're 0:15:39.956 --> 0:15:44.156 experiencing a change in the frequency of their sex. Yeah, 0:15:44.236 --> 0:15:47.836 where Taylor, who called into the hotline, is not feeling 0:15:47.876 --> 0:15:52.596 that super out of the blue, spontaneous desire like they 0:15:52.716 --> 0:15:56.196 used to when they first started dating their girlfriend. So 0:15:56.276 --> 0:15:59.876 I know this question is one that you get maybe 0:15:59.956 --> 0:16:03.036 more than any other as a sex educator. And because 0:16:03.076 --> 0:16:05.876 of that, I followed up with Taylor and I talk 0:16:05.956 --> 0:16:08.956 to them about what contexts get them in the mood. 0:16:10.796 --> 0:16:12.796 I was asking, what do you and your partner do 0:16:13.316 --> 0:16:16.076 that does make you feel really good and comfortable and 0:16:16.396 --> 0:16:20.676 is pleasurable, not necessarily sexually, And they said they really 0:16:20.716 --> 0:16:23.996 liked laying in bed together with their girlfriend and just 0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:29.596 like talking about their day and getting words of affirmation 0:16:29.956 --> 0:16:33.156 like I'm really proud of you. I think you're doing great, 0:16:33.436 --> 0:16:37.036 I am so happy to be with you. You're a 0:16:37.036 --> 0:16:39.956 great partner. Like they almost feel like they need that 0:16:40.196 --> 0:16:45.556 before they can get turned on. There's another sex therapist 0:16:45.636 --> 0:16:51.556 named Petro Zebroff who studies initiation styles essentially, and it 0:16:51.636 --> 0:16:56.756 sounds like Taylor is a sentimental, emotional style. They want 0:16:56.756 --> 0:16:59.276 to feel that sense of connection with the partner, being 0:16:59.276 --> 0:17:03.076 really present and listening to each other with your hearts 0:17:03.116 --> 0:17:08.116 and affirming your pleasure in being in the relationship. That's 0:17:08.156 --> 0:17:10.716 not everyone's style, but that absolutely is one of the 0:17:10.796 --> 0:17:16.236 styles that people prefer in sexual initiation. You're telling me, 0:17:16.636 --> 0:17:19.276 you know how there's like love languages, there's like an 0:17:19.316 --> 0:17:22.796 initiation style of like you're one of these four styles. 0:17:23.476 --> 0:17:26.276 That's a real thing. Yeah, So the research has been 0:17:26.316 --> 0:17:28.556 evolving over the years. I actually included it in the 0:17:28.596 --> 0:17:31.396 Come as you Are workbook when it was seven styles, 0:17:31.396 --> 0:17:34.756 but in the following years it has simplified down to 0:17:34.916 --> 0:17:37.196 four different styles. I'm sure we can put the questionnaire 0:17:37.556 --> 0:17:40.036 into the show notes. It's the questionnaire for turn on 0:17:40.116 --> 0:17:44.396 initiation preference or q TIP, which is just as adorable 0:17:44.396 --> 0:17:48.956 as it could possibly be. And that sentimental emotional style 0:17:49.236 --> 0:17:52.196 is one of them. Another is sensation style, where this 0:17:52.236 --> 0:17:56.196 person might want you to just go for the genitals, 0:17:56.396 --> 0:17:59.236 or they might want to be touched somewhere else a 0:17:59.316 --> 0:18:02.956 shoulder rub or an embrace or a kiss. We're experiencing 0:18:02.956 --> 0:18:06.316 that physical sensation is the way to open the door 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:10.636 for them. It's actually really promising news to hear that 0:18:10.716 --> 0:18:14.396 Taylor might be in that sentimental emotional style, because those 0:18:14.476 --> 0:18:19.236 folks transition really well to embracing responsive desire, creating a 0:18:19.316 --> 0:18:22.956 context that makes pleasure easy, recognizing that there is this 0:18:23.076 --> 0:18:29.356 intermediate step between not having sex and having sex. One 0:18:29.396 --> 0:18:33.436 of the places people get stuck with normalizing, accepting, embracing 0:18:33.716 --> 0:18:36.996 responsive desire in their lives is that they feel like, oh, 0:18:37.036 --> 0:18:39.876 but it should be easy. I shouldn't have to put 0:18:39.916 --> 0:18:44.356 in all this work. There shouldn't be like a transition period. 0:18:44.356 --> 0:18:47.316 I shouldn't have to work so hard for it, you know. 0:18:48.276 --> 0:18:51.116 But if you think about what was happening in a 0:18:51.236 --> 0:18:56.236 dating relationship, like don't you spend time planning and transitioning 0:18:56.796 --> 0:18:59.316 into that sexy state of mind. Don't you spend time 0:18:59.356 --> 0:19:02.396 grooming your body to get ready. Don't you spend time 0:19:03.516 --> 0:19:07.356 planning the date and fantasizing about it and imagining what's 0:19:07.356 --> 0:19:10.036 going to happen. Don't you spend time texting each other 0:19:10.116 --> 0:19:12.476 back and forth all kinds of things all day about 0:19:12.516 --> 0:19:15.796 how much you're looking forward to things. It's really not 0:19:16.076 --> 0:19:20.876 more work to understand the things that come before the 0:19:20.956 --> 0:19:24.236 sex right in order to create a context that makes 0:19:24.236 --> 0:19:28.476 the sex worth wanting. So I know people love black 0:19:28.476 --> 0:19:31.276 and white thinking about identity categories. So I think when 0:19:31.356 --> 0:19:36.756 people hear you talking about responsive and spontaneous desire and saying, oh, 0:19:36.796 --> 0:19:40.156 I'm a responsive desire person, my partner is a spontaneous 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:43.476 desire person, and sort of putting themselves in that box 0:19:43.516 --> 0:19:48.556 and treating their relationship like they are a responsive desire person. 0:19:48.836 --> 0:19:52.436 Does it work like that for some people? It is? 0:19:53.156 --> 0:19:55.836 And oh do people love to be in a category. 0:19:55.836 --> 0:19:57.276 And it is the case that there are some people 0:19:57.316 --> 0:20:00.716 who experience exclusively responsive desire in their lives and people 0:20:00.716 --> 0:20:06.036 who experience exclusively spontaneous desire in their lives, But most 0:20:06.076 --> 0:20:10.076 of us it's not about a trade that's stable like 0:20:10.116 --> 0:20:14.116 introversion extraversion. That is actually a trait that's pretty stable 0:20:14.556 --> 0:20:20.236 across your lifetime, right, But desire style isn't like that. 0:20:20.396 --> 0:20:23.236 It is very responsive to context. So there will be 0:20:23.316 --> 0:20:26.756 some contexts. For example, in the early hot and heavy, 0:20:26.756 --> 0:20:29.356 fallen in love stage of a relationship, you're in the 0:20:29.436 --> 0:20:32.596 kitchen cooking dinner and your partner comes over and kisses 0:20:32.596 --> 0:20:35.236 you in some certain special place, and your knees melt 0:20:35.236 --> 0:20:38.276 and you let dinner burn because all it took was 0:20:38.316 --> 0:20:42.476 that to get you going. Ten years later and maybe 0:20:42.516 --> 0:20:45.276 some kids, you're in the same kitchen cooking the same meal, 0:20:45.676 --> 0:20:47.876 and the same partner comes in and kisses you in 0:20:47.916 --> 0:20:50.996 the same certain special way, and your response is not 0:20:51.156 --> 0:20:53.396 knees melting, let dinner burn, It is could you please 0:20:53.436 --> 0:20:58.676 go set the table? Nothing is wrong there, nobody got broken, 0:20:59.156 --> 0:21:04.196 it's just the context is different. So you're saying, like, 0:21:04.756 --> 0:21:07.556 the same people that experience spontaneous desire in the past 0:21:08.076 --> 0:21:11.236 could experience sponsive desire nail. And it doesn't mean that 0:21:11.276 --> 0:21:14.476 they have gotten worse at connecting or worse at having sex, 0:21:14.596 --> 0:21:18.116 or that their sexual connection has degraded in some way. Yeah, No, 0:21:18.236 --> 0:21:20.596 it's just that the contact and when I say context, 0:21:20.596 --> 0:21:24.716 I'm talking both about your external circumstances and your internal state. 0:21:24.876 --> 0:21:28.836 Like when you're in that like early new relationship energy situation, 0:21:29.636 --> 0:21:35.756 your brain's emotional systems are firing on all cylinders and 0:21:35.996 --> 0:21:38.956 the sparks of that, it's easy for them to catch 0:21:38.956 --> 0:21:41.956 over into sexuality and make it easy to experience what 0:21:42.116 --> 0:21:46.116 feels like spontaneous desire for sex when you've been in 0:21:46.116 --> 0:21:49.036 a relationship for a long time. It is normal that 0:21:49.036 --> 0:21:54.436 that like huge fire burns down to a smolder and 0:21:54.516 --> 0:21:58.916 it takes a little stoking of the fire to let 0:21:58.956 --> 0:22:03.116 it burst into flame. There's nothing wrong with that. Yes, 0:22:03.316 --> 0:22:05.356 And on that note, I would love to get to 0:22:05.396 --> 0:22:08.876 some specific practical tips for Taylor. I want to break 0:22:08.876 --> 0:22:11.876 down Taylor's question further and make sure that when they 0:22:11.916 --> 0:22:15.996 hear this episode they're satisfied with like real take home 0:22:16.596 --> 0:22:19.716 assignments that they can YEA, they know what to do. Yes, 0:22:19.796 --> 0:22:21.716 they know what to do, and it's not just like 0:22:21.716 --> 0:22:24.716 a theoretical change. I think we've already talked about the 0:22:24.756 --> 0:22:28.676 great framework of responsive desire and also initiation styles, which 0:22:28.676 --> 0:22:32.356 I think is so interesting and seems like they're an emotional, 0:22:32.396 --> 0:22:37.636 sentimental initiation style person. So let's break down some specific 0:22:37.676 --> 0:22:40.876 parts of the question that we heard, and I want 0:22:40.876 --> 0:22:43.036 to just play it again for you so we can 0:22:43.476 --> 0:22:47.076 talk about these specifics. When we first met, we had 0:22:47.116 --> 0:22:50.676 this extreme sexual attraction. We wanted to have sex all 0:22:50.716 --> 0:22:53.076 the time. We couldn't keep our hands off each other. 0:22:53.116 --> 0:22:56.116 But since we moved in together this year, I'm just 0:22:56.196 --> 0:22:59.956 wanting sex less. I don't know what it is. I 0:23:00.036 --> 0:23:02.636 know my feelings for her haven't changed. I still feel 0:23:02.636 --> 0:23:07.396 attracted to her, so that's not the problem. Maybe it's 0:23:07.436 --> 0:23:10.716 that I'm stressed out about any and my job, but 0:23:11.636 --> 0:23:15.436 I still want to want it. It's not that I 0:23:15.476 --> 0:23:19.716 don't want her. I do intellectually. So the first thing 0:23:19.996 --> 0:23:22.796 that has changed in the context is that Taylor is 0:23:22.796 --> 0:23:26.956 feeling critical of their own sexual desire. There are also 0:23:27.036 --> 0:23:30.036 a couple of other explicit context changes that we know 0:23:30.116 --> 0:23:35.196 could potentially be changing the response of the accelerator. In 0:23:35.236 --> 0:23:38.316 the breaks, there's a stress about money and jobs. Do 0:23:38.356 --> 0:23:43.516 we think that could possibly be hitting the brakes? Yeah? Yeah, right, 0:23:44.796 --> 0:23:48.396 So stress is a physiological response. Is not like just stress, 0:23:48.436 --> 0:23:51.316 it's like an idea. It's a physical response that happens 0:23:51.316 --> 0:23:54.156 in your body. The fight or flight response is there 0:23:54.196 --> 0:23:56.836 to help us survive something like being chased by a lion, 0:23:57.196 --> 0:23:59.556 and for a lot of us, eighty to ninety percent 0:23:59.556 --> 0:24:03.396 of people, stress can really hit the brakes because if 0:24:03.436 --> 0:24:06.356 you're being chased by a lion, is that a good 0:24:06.396 --> 0:24:11.196 time to decide to have sex? Not so much? Right right. 0:24:11.796 --> 0:24:15.316 A second thing that changed is that they moved in together. 0:24:16.236 --> 0:24:21.036 Relationship transitions are significant and have a lot of meaning. 0:24:21.916 --> 0:24:25.356 So now their relationship is happening in a context where 0:24:25.756 --> 0:24:31.236 they're sharing householding responsibilities. Maybe it does not enhance their 0:24:31.276 --> 0:24:36.036 sense of erotic connection with their partner to need their 0:24:36.076 --> 0:24:39.996 partner to clean the toilet because it's their turn, or 0:24:40.036 --> 0:24:42.716 whose job is it to take out the recycling this week? 0:24:43.276 --> 0:24:49.716 Those kinds of negotiations may not necessarily enhance spontaneous desire 0:24:49.796 --> 0:24:53.436 for someone. This makes so much sense because when I 0:24:53.476 --> 0:24:56.596 was following up with Taylor, they said, you know, in 0:24:56.596 --> 0:25:00.956 my early relationship, we would text, you know, we basically 0:25:00.956 --> 0:25:03.116 had a hook up relationship, and I would text her 0:25:03.116 --> 0:25:05.996 and be like, do you want to meet up later? 0:25:06.156 --> 0:25:08.916 You know winky face, and she would be like yes, 0:25:09.156 --> 0:25:11.116 And as soon as they saw each other, like Taylor 0:25:11.156 --> 0:25:13.676 would go over to her apartment and as soon as 0:25:13.676 --> 0:25:16.036 they saw each other, it was like hot and heavy. 0:25:16.276 --> 0:25:19.556 And then as they have gotten to be more of 0:25:19.596 --> 0:25:22.756 a partnered couple and like doing life together and moving 0:25:22.796 --> 0:25:26.476 in together, there's less of that every time I see you, 0:25:27.556 --> 0:25:31.556 we're going to have sex energy, and it's more of 0:25:31.596 --> 0:25:35.236 like we gotta take care of the car today and 0:25:35.436 --> 0:25:39.396 we have to bring the dog todaycare except somebody has 0:25:39.396 --> 0:25:43.556 to do the dishes. Yeah, the context changed. The context changed, okay, 0:25:43.796 --> 0:25:46.276 And it is so easy because we have all been 0:25:46.316 --> 0:25:49.676