1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:27,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin, and I'm going in I have a question for you. 2 00:00:28,236 --> 00:00:31,756 Speaker 1: I still want to want it. It's not that I 3 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:35,836 Speaker 1: don't want her. I do intellectually, but I don't know 4 00:00:35,916 --> 00:00:39,276 Speaker 1: if I'm just having trouble getting myself excited about sex 5 00:00:39,316 --> 00:00:42,076 Speaker 1: and my partner wants to have it and it's making 6 00:00:42,196 --> 00:00:49,836 Speaker 1: both of us sad. Yes, this question, it is the question, right, 7 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:53,236 Speaker 1: It's the question I get from people in long term 8 00:00:53,276 --> 00:00:58,796 Speaker 1: relationships of any structure. And the answer is, there's nothing wrong. 9 00:00:59,436 --> 00:01:03,316 Speaker 1: If you want to want your partner. You want your partner, 10 00:01:03,756 --> 00:01:06,836 Speaker 1: You're all set. Everything you need now is just knowing 11 00:01:06,836 --> 00:01:10,916 Speaker 1: how to get from wanting your partner to a context 12 00:01:10,956 --> 00:01:14,316 Speaker 1: where sexy times seems like the best idea you could 13 00:01:14,316 --> 00:01:16,436 Speaker 1: be having right now. And I have some science that 14 00:01:16,476 --> 00:01:23,396 Speaker 1: will help with that. I'm Emmilinagaski and this is the 15 00:01:23,436 --> 00:01:26,396 Speaker 1: Come as you Are podcast where our I answer questions 16 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:30,996 Speaker 1: about sex with science. In this episode, I'm going to 17 00:01:31,036 --> 00:01:36,236 Speaker 1: explain another mind blowing fundamental lesson in the science of 18 00:01:36,316 --> 00:01:42,996 Speaker 1: sex desire. What even is it? How does it actually work? 19 00:01:42,996 --> 00:01:46,276 Speaker 1: Why does it sometimes change? And why does it sometimes 20 00:01:46,316 --> 00:01:48,956 Speaker 1: feel like we lose touch with it? It turns out 21 00:01:49,236 --> 00:01:53,316 Speaker 1: the narrative we've been sold from TV and movies where 22 00:01:53,476 --> 00:01:57,476 Speaker 1: two people are suddenly struck with a spontaneous and simultaneous 23 00:01:57,596 --> 00:02:02,796 Speaker 1: desire for sex out of the blue. It doesn't usually 24 00:02:02,836 --> 00:02:06,196 Speaker 1: work that way, particularly in a long term relationships. I mean, yes, 25 00:02:06,396 --> 00:02:08,876 Speaker 1: it absolutely is one of the normal, healthy ways to 26 00:02:09,116 --> 00:02:14,516 Speaker 1: sperience sexual desire. But there is another very common way 27 00:02:14,556 --> 00:02:19,276 Speaker 1: to experience desire that we don't usually see in the media. 28 00:02:19,716 --> 00:02:23,596 Speaker 1: It's called responsive desire. And when I describe how it 29 00:02:23,636 --> 00:02:28,956 Speaker 1: works in relationships, it might sound really familiar. Let's get 30 00:02:28,996 --> 00:02:32,996 Speaker 1: into the science of how and when we feel sexual 31 00:02:33,036 --> 00:02:39,156 Speaker 1: desire and when we don't. I'm answering a listener question 32 00:02:39,236 --> 00:02:43,156 Speaker 1: today and as always bringing me today's listener question is 33 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:46,916 Speaker 1: my producer, mo Hi, mo Hey, Emily. How are you doing? 34 00:02:46,996 --> 00:02:50,396 Speaker 1: How's it going? I'm doing great? How are you you know? 35 00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:52,916 Speaker 1: I'm doing all right. How are you feeling now that 36 00:02:52,996 --> 00:02:54,996 Speaker 1: the show is out in the world where a few 37 00:02:54,996 --> 00:02:58,636 Speaker 1: episodes in? How does it feel? You know? It's when 38 00:02:58,636 --> 00:03:00,676 Speaker 1: you write a book, like you spend all this time 39 00:03:00,756 --> 00:03:03,036 Speaker 1: by yourself with your editor, just like writing a book, 40 00:03:03,036 --> 00:03:05,196 Speaker 1: and then it's out there and people can read it, 41 00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:08,596 Speaker 1: and that's sort of it. But with a podcast. You 42 00:03:08,676 --> 00:03:11,316 Speaker 1: put it out there and people can respond, and then 43 00:03:11,316 --> 00:03:13,716 Speaker 1: you make some more podcasts and people can respond. So 44 00:03:13,756 --> 00:03:16,876 Speaker 1: it's a dynamic and I'm enjoying that. Yeah, it's like 45 00:03:16,956 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 1: more of a conversation with the listeners. Yeah, it reminds 46 00:03:20,716 --> 00:03:24,316 Speaker 1: me of when I wrote a blog. I often say 47 00:03:24,356 --> 00:03:26,956 Speaker 1: we're like in the blog spot era of podcasting, like 48 00:03:26,996 --> 00:03:29,156 Speaker 1: we're in such a wild West era that it feels 49 00:03:29,156 --> 00:03:32,476 Speaker 1: like we're in blog spotting. Yeah. Well, so I chose 50 00:03:32,516 --> 00:03:35,756 Speaker 1: today's question because we've gotten a lot of questions like 51 00:03:35,836 --> 00:03:38,516 Speaker 1: this one, and basically I'm calling it that I want 52 00:03:38,556 --> 00:03:41,756 Speaker 1: to want it question, Like, ah, I wish that I 53 00:03:41,796 --> 00:03:44,596 Speaker 1: had more desire for my partner. I really love being 54 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:47,236 Speaker 1: in the relationship. I'm happy with them. I want to 55 00:03:47,236 --> 00:03:51,076 Speaker 1: be with them long term, but right I just don't 56 00:03:51,076 --> 00:03:53,116 Speaker 1: want it like I used to. And that is a 57 00:03:53,196 --> 00:03:55,596 Speaker 1: question that I have seen come up again and again 58 00:03:55,756 --> 00:03:59,396 Speaker 1: in the listener mailbox. So I wanted to get your 59 00:03:59,396 --> 00:04:02,156 Speaker 1: take on this one, like really early on in this series, 60 00:04:02,316 --> 00:04:06,156 Speaker 1: because whether someone's experiencing it right now or not, it 61 00:04:06,316 --> 00:04:08,116 Speaker 1: is the kind of question that I think a lot 62 00:04:08,156 --> 00:04:12,036 Speaker 1: of us who are in long term sexual romantic relationships 63 00:04:12,076 --> 00:04:16,436 Speaker 1: will encounter yes, any relationship that lasts long enough, you're 64 00:04:16,476 --> 00:04:19,476 Speaker 1: going to experience this. Okay, So are you ready to 65 00:04:19,476 --> 00:04:24,196 Speaker 1: hear the full question? Yes, Hi, Emily. My name is Taylor. 66 00:04:24,356 --> 00:04:26,596 Speaker 1: I use they then pronouns, and I have a question 67 00:04:26,676 --> 00:04:30,876 Speaker 1: about sex, drive or libido. So I have this incredible, 68 00:04:31,076 --> 00:04:34,436 Speaker 1: beautiful girlfriend, and when we first met, we had this 69 00:04:34,556 --> 00:04:38,356 Speaker 1: extreme sexual attraction. We wanted to have sex all the time. 70 00:04:38,676 --> 00:04:41,036 Speaker 1: We couldn't keep our hands off each other. But since 71 00:04:41,076 --> 00:04:44,476 Speaker 1: we moved in together this year, I'm just wanting sex less. 72 00:04:45,356 --> 00:04:47,956 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I know my feelings 73 00:04:47,956 --> 00:04:50,676 Speaker 1: for her haven't changed. I still feel attracted to her, 74 00:04:51,076 --> 00:04:55,436 Speaker 1: so that's not the problem. Maybe it's that I'm stressed 75 00:04:55,476 --> 00:05:00,236 Speaker 1: out about money and my job, but I still want 76 00:05:00,316 --> 00:05:03,356 Speaker 1: to want it. It's not that I don't want her. 77 00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:07,716 Speaker 1: I do intellectually, but I don't know if I'm just 78 00:05:07,836 --> 00:05:11,236 Speaker 1: having trouble getting mysel excited about sex and my partner 79 00:05:11,276 --> 00:05:15,036 Speaker 1: wants to have it and it's making both of us sad. 80 00:05:15,796 --> 00:05:17,996 Speaker 1: So I don't know what's wrong with me? Is there 81 00:05:17,996 --> 00:05:26,276 Speaker 1: something I can do about it? Thanks? Oh, Taylor, there's 82 00:05:26,316 --> 00:05:28,236 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with you, and yes there is things you 83 00:05:28,276 --> 00:05:33,956 Speaker 1: can do about it. This is a perfect question. Honestly, 84 00:05:34,116 --> 00:05:36,076 Speaker 1: the book I'm working on right now about sex and 85 00:05:36,116 --> 00:05:39,236 Speaker 1: long term relationships was born out of me having the 86 00:05:39,316 --> 00:05:43,196 Speaker 1: same experience. Really, yeah, you're this is very much on 87 00:05:43,196 --> 00:05:45,916 Speaker 1: the top of your mind. Absolutely. I think about it 88 00:05:45,996 --> 00:05:48,436 Speaker 1: all the time, and I have done a lot of 89 00:05:48,476 --> 00:05:51,876 Speaker 1: work to understand what people can do when they find 90 00:05:51,956 --> 00:05:54,476 Speaker 1: themselves in this situation in order to make their sex 91 00:05:54,516 --> 00:05:59,476 Speaker 1: lives still just as delightful as when they were super 92 00:05:59,596 --> 00:06:02,756 Speaker 1: hot and heavy horny for each other. So in our 93 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:06,316 Speaker 1: second episode, Emily, you talked about the science of horniness, 94 00:06:06,876 --> 00:06:10,636 Speaker 1: and you talked about the dual control model, which is 95 00:06:10,716 --> 00:06:14,836 Speaker 1: like the one oh one of how sexual response works. 96 00:06:14,876 --> 00:06:18,396 Speaker 1: We have the breaks and the accelerator and those all 97 00:06:18,396 --> 00:06:20,716 Speaker 1: come together in a unique way inside all of us 98 00:06:20,756 --> 00:06:25,356 Speaker 1: to form our sexual response. But today we're talking about 99 00:06:25,916 --> 00:06:29,796 Speaker 1: the experience of desire. Can you talk about the difference 100 00:06:29,876 --> 00:06:34,276 Speaker 1: between horniness and desire? Like, why do you think of 101 00:06:34,316 --> 00:06:38,996 Speaker 1: these as separate categories and what's the difference? Well, ultimately, 102 00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:41,996 Speaker 1: any question about sexual response is a question about the 103 00:06:42,036 --> 00:06:46,276 Speaker 1: dual control model. But when researchers and therapists study and 104 00:06:46,396 --> 00:06:49,996 Speaker 1: talk about sexual response, they break it down into four pieces. 105 00:06:50,716 --> 00:06:54,356 Speaker 1: One is the arousal piece, which is the activation of 106 00:06:54,396 --> 00:06:57,636 Speaker 1: your brain's accelerator and the deactivation of the breaks, which 107 00:06:58,036 --> 00:07:00,956 Speaker 1: in turn results in the activation of the body. Right, 108 00:07:01,156 --> 00:07:05,636 Speaker 1: that's the arousal process. There's orgasm, which is the specific 109 00:07:05,676 --> 00:07:10,276 Speaker 1: experience of releasing all the tension in your body that's 110 00:07:10,276 --> 00:07:15,076 Speaker 1: been generated by that arousal. There's pleasure, which is the 111 00:07:15,076 --> 00:07:19,116 Speaker 1: foundation of everything. It's your brain's interpretation of your body 112 00:07:19,236 --> 00:07:23,236 Speaker 1: sensations as positive. Right. So tickling the one we talk 113 00:07:23,276 --> 00:07:26,796 Speaker 1: about all the time. Pleasure is when tickling feels good 114 00:07:27,276 --> 00:07:30,076 Speaker 1: versus if someone tickles you and it doesn't feel good. 115 00:07:30,116 --> 00:07:32,796 Speaker 1: It's the same sensation, but it doesn't feel good because 116 00:07:32,796 --> 00:07:35,516 Speaker 1: the context is different. That's the science of the pleasure part. 117 00:07:36,116 --> 00:07:40,796 Speaker 1: And then there's desire. So where pleasure is about liking 118 00:07:40,836 --> 00:07:47,676 Speaker 1: a sensation, desire is about wanting those sensations. So all 119 00:07:47,716 --> 00:07:50,956 Speaker 1: four pieces arousal, orgasm, pleasure, desire, these are all parts 120 00:07:50,956 --> 00:07:53,556 Speaker 1: of the sexual response. And you know what the one 121 00:07:53,596 --> 00:07:59,436 Speaker 1: people worry about the most desire. It is the number 122 00:07:59,436 --> 00:08:03,196 Speaker 1: one reason why couples seek sex therapy is for a 123 00:08:03,236 --> 00:08:09,796 Speaker 1: desire differential or a change in desire. Interesting, So, what 124 00:08:10,356 --> 00:08:13,196 Speaker 1: science do we need to understand about desire. To answer 125 00:08:13,236 --> 00:08:18,516 Speaker 1: Taylor's question, Okay, so the story we are usually told 126 00:08:18,836 --> 00:08:21,756 Speaker 1: about desire, The way I thought desire worked until I 127 00:08:21,796 --> 00:08:26,396 Speaker 1: got to grad school is that it just arrives out 128 00:08:26,396 --> 00:08:29,316 Speaker 1: of the blue, spontaneous. Here walking down the street, and 129 00:08:29,476 --> 00:08:32,396 Speaker 1: suddenly you just are interested in sex, or you're thinking 130 00:08:32,436 --> 00:08:34,396 Speaker 1: about sex and you would like to have some sex, 131 00:08:34,396 --> 00:08:36,596 Speaker 1: and you go home to your partner and you really 132 00:08:36,596 --> 00:08:39,196 Speaker 1: hope that your partner also is interested in some sex. 133 00:08:39,316 --> 00:08:42,916 Speaker 1: Right now, that's spontaneous desire. It is absolutely one of 134 00:08:42,916 --> 00:08:47,396 Speaker 1: the normal, healthy ways to experience desire. And there is 135 00:08:47,396 --> 00:08:52,796 Speaker 1: another normal, healthy way to experience desire. It's called responsive desire. 136 00:08:52,876 --> 00:08:57,756 Speaker 1: Where that spontaneous desire emerges in anticipation of the pleasure 137 00:08:57,756 --> 00:09:02,796 Speaker 1: of sex. Responsive desire emerges in response to the pleasure 138 00:09:02,956 --> 00:09:05,596 Speaker 1: of sex. So instead of it being just like, out 139 00:09:05,636 --> 00:09:08,596 Speaker 1: of the blue, woo, I would like sex now, it's 140 00:09:08,676 --> 00:09:13,076 Speaker 1: that you show up regardless of how you feel in 141 00:09:13,116 --> 00:09:16,316 Speaker 1: the moment. There's a quick analogy that I learned from 142 00:09:16,316 --> 00:09:20,436 Speaker 1: a sex therapist named Christine Hyde. She talking to her clients, says, 143 00:09:20,436 --> 00:09:22,476 Speaker 1: if you imagine your best friend invite you to a party, 144 00:09:23,036 --> 00:09:24,956 Speaker 1: of course you say yes because it's your best friend 145 00:09:24,956 --> 00:09:27,516 Speaker 1: and a party. But you know, as that data approaches, 146 00:09:27,556 --> 00:09:29,956 Speaker 1: you start going, I don't know how to find childcare. 147 00:09:30,836 --> 00:09:33,556 Speaker 1: Traffic is going to be heavy. I'm not really going 148 00:09:33,596 --> 00:09:35,356 Speaker 1: to want to put on my party clothes at the 149 00:09:35,436 --> 00:09:38,396 Speaker 1: end of a long week. But you know what you 150 00:09:38,396 --> 00:09:40,956 Speaker 1: said you would go, So you put on your party clothes, 151 00:09:41,196 --> 00:09:43,036 Speaker 1: you drive through the traffic, and you show up to 152 00:09:43,076 --> 00:09:46,596 Speaker 1: the party. And what happens then a lot of the 153 00:09:46,636 --> 00:09:50,356 Speaker 1: time you have fun at the party right, And if 154 00:09:50,396 --> 00:09:53,556 Speaker 1: you are having fun at the party, you are doing 155 00:09:53,596 --> 00:09:59,196 Speaker 1: it right. That's responsive desire and it's normal, and that 156 00:09:59,356 --> 00:10:01,636 Speaker 1: is the way a lot of couples and long term 157 00:10:01,636 --> 00:10:05,156 Speaker 1: relationships structure their whole sex lives. Most of the time, 158 00:10:06,236 --> 00:10:07,916 Speaker 1: you were not doing it wrong if that's how you're 159 00:10:07,956 --> 00:10:10,916 Speaker 1: doing it, as long as you like what is happening. 160 00:10:11,196 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 1: And the caveat here is that if you show up 161 00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:18,996 Speaker 1: to the party and it is not fun, there is 162 00:10:19,076 --> 00:10:22,396 Speaker 1: no amount of looking forward to that party that's going 163 00:10:22,436 --> 00:10:25,676 Speaker 1: to make that party worth going to. That makes a 164 00:10:25,676 --> 00:10:29,916 Speaker 1: lot of sense. Also been to that party metaphorically and literally. 165 00:10:30,236 --> 00:10:35,316 Speaker 1: And can you just describe how is responsive desire working 166 00:10:35,676 --> 00:10:37,716 Speaker 1: in the brain, Like what is going on in the 167 00:10:37,756 --> 00:10:42,636 Speaker 1: brain during responsive and spontaneous desire. Yeah, so the cool 168 00:10:42,716 --> 00:10:46,596 Speaker 1: thing is the same thing is happening fundamentally in both 169 00:10:46,716 --> 00:10:51,276 Speaker 1: spontaneous and responsive desire. There's very little difference. So your 170 00:10:51,516 --> 00:10:53,876 Speaker 1: breaks are noticing all the good reasons not to be 171 00:10:53,956 --> 00:10:57,396 Speaker 1: turned on, and they're staying on, or else they're turning 172 00:10:57,396 --> 00:11:00,396 Speaker 1: off because those reasons are going away. And your accelerator 173 00:11:00,516 --> 00:11:03,236 Speaker 1: is noticing all the sex related stimuli in the environment 174 00:11:03,276 --> 00:11:05,316 Speaker 1: and is either sending a turn on signal or not. 175 00:11:05,876 --> 00:11:08,996 Speaker 1: And as your context changes, the amount of stimulation to 176 00:11:09,276 --> 00:11:14,076 Speaker 1: those brain functions changes, and at a certain point, the 177 00:11:14,156 --> 00:11:21,036 Speaker 1: balance of accelerator being hit and breaks releasing crosses a 178 00:11:21,076 --> 00:11:26,596 Speaker 1: threshold into your awareness of being motivated to pursue sex. 179 00:11:27,076 --> 00:11:30,236 Speaker 1: Huh does that make sense. It's a simple sort of 180 00:11:30,276 --> 00:11:34,356 Speaker 1: like addition subtraction problem, like turn on more of the ons, 181 00:11:34,436 --> 00:11:37,436 Speaker 1: turn off more of the offs, and eventually you get 182 00:11:37,476 --> 00:11:39,036 Speaker 1: to a point when you're like, oh, would be very 183 00:11:39,036 --> 00:11:43,196 Speaker 1: interested in having sex. The only difference between spontaneous versus 184 00:11:43,196 --> 00:11:46,236 Speaker 1: responsive desire is the point at which you get there 185 00:11:46,876 --> 00:11:51,716 Speaker 1: is a lower level of stimulation for spontaneous desire. You're 186 00:11:51,756 --> 00:11:54,996 Speaker 1: interested in sex before you're aware of being aroused and 187 00:11:55,116 --> 00:12:01,036 Speaker 1: before you're actually in a sexy scenario. Whereas responsive desire 188 00:12:01,396 --> 00:12:05,916 Speaker 1: it takes more explicit stimulation, more explicit arousal, before you 189 00:12:05,916 --> 00:12:10,236 Speaker 1: have that awareness of like, oh oh yes, please this 190 00:12:11,716 --> 00:12:17,596 Speaker 1: m okay. Maybe I'm like slow just to get this concept. 191 00:12:17,676 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: But I need to stop for a clarification about responsive desire, 192 00:12:21,716 --> 00:12:25,996 Speaker 1: because every time you're talking about it responsive desire starting 193 00:12:27,076 --> 00:12:34,076 Speaker 1: in response to pleasure. I basically imagine that somebody doesn't 194 00:12:34,076 --> 00:12:37,836 Speaker 1: have any desire until they actually start having sex, and 195 00:12:37,876 --> 00:12:41,876 Speaker 1: then they're like, oh now I want it. Now I'm 196 00:12:41,956 --> 00:12:46,196 Speaker 1: feeling into it, like now that I'm being literally genitally stimulated, 197 00:12:46,876 --> 00:12:50,036 Speaker 1: now I'm feeling desire, Like that's what I hear sometimes 198 00:12:50,116 --> 00:12:52,796 Speaker 1: when you're describing responsive desire. But I feel like that 199 00:12:52,876 --> 00:12:55,996 Speaker 1: can't be right. Okay, yeah, no, it can't be right. 200 00:12:56,036 --> 00:12:58,876 Speaker 1: And it's so important that you asked that question. I'm sorry, 201 00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:02,516 Speaker 1: and okay, I'm going to tell you a story about 202 00:13:04,156 --> 00:13:07,716 Speaker 1: a couple that I spoke with. Both of them had PhDs. 203 00:13:07,916 --> 00:13:10,756 Speaker 1: Both of them had read the book. They understood everything 204 00:13:10,796 --> 00:13:16,036 Speaker 1: that I had written. Unfortunately, Okay, so it's the pandemic. 205 00:13:16,116 --> 00:13:19,516 Speaker 1: They have a young child, married husband and wife two 206 00:13:19,596 --> 00:13:23,156 Speaker 1: sis gender heterosexual people. And she puts the child to bed. 207 00:13:23,596 --> 00:13:25,276 Speaker 1: She comes and sits down next to him on the 208 00:13:25,316 --> 00:13:28,236 Speaker 1: couch and they're gonna watch something they have both read, 209 00:13:28,276 --> 00:13:31,396 Speaker 1: Come as you are. He has read about responsive desire. 210 00:13:31,516 --> 00:13:35,516 Speaker 1: And he literally puts his hand down her pants. Oh, 211 00:13:35,556 --> 00:13:38,436 Speaker 1: when she has just finished a long day and put 212 00:13:38,436 --> 00:13:41,316 Speaker 1: their child to bed, He's like right to the clit. 213 00:13:41,596 --> 00:13:45,716 Speaker 1: And she's like, no, no, thank you, I don't want 214 00:13:45,756 --> 00:13:49,356 Speaker 1: this right now. And he says, he says, oh gosh, 215 00:13:49,396 --> 00:13:54,436 Speaker 1: he says, but you will. Oh no, okay, right, See 216 00:13:54,476 --> 00:13:58,036 Speaker 1: that is my concern. Yeah. I was mortified when I 217 00:13:58,076 --> 00:14:03,356 Speaker 1: heard the story, and I clarified, like, pleasure first, not 218 00:14:03,476 --> 00:14:07,436 Speaker 1: just stimulation. Pleasure first. The advice is not to just 219 00:14:07,516 --> 00:14:09,956 Speaker 1: like go do it. It's to create a context where 220 00:14:09,996 --> 00:14:13,516 Speaker 1: it is easy for your brain to interpret these sensations 221 00:14:13,556 --> 00:14:18,676 Speaker 1: as pleasurable. Create a context that makes pleasure easy, right right. 222 00:14:18,836 --> 00:14:22,756 Speaker 1: So my problem in understanding this is that my definition 223 00:14:22,756 --> 00:14:25,956 Speaker 1: of pleasure is so narrow that it's like clatoral stimulation. 224 00:14:26,316 --> 00:14:29,316 Speaker 1: But actually I need to like build out the whole 225 00:14:29,316 --> 00:14:33,396 Speaker 1: world of what could be pleasurable, including just like a 226 00:14:33,476 --> 00:14:39,396 Speaker 1: good conversation, etc. Yeah. No, I will never give the 227 00:14:39,476 --> 00:14:43,276 Speaker 1: advice to just do it. The advice is to create 228 00:14:43,316 --> 00:14:52,196 Speaker 1: a context that makes pleasure easy. Yeah. Context, Context is 229 00:14:52,396 --> 00:14:54,756 Speaker 1: one of your favorite things to talk about. I'm learning 230 00:14:55,316 --> 00:14:59,196 Speaker 1: and I feel like so much of good sex is 231 00:14:59,196 --> 00:15:03,996 Speaker 1: about setting the right context. Okay, I want to take 232 00:15:04,036 --> 00:15:06,036 Speaker 1: a break, and when we get back, I want to 233 00:15:06,076 --> 00:15:09,556 Speaker 1: talk about how Taylor and all of us can make 234 00:15:09,636 --> 00:15:26,876 Speaker 1: contexts in our lives that make pleasure easy. So, Emily, 235 00:15:26,996 --> 00:15:30,236 Speaker 1: we are talking today about a I want to want 236 00:15:30,236 --> 00:15:34,436 Speaker 1: my partner question about a desire differential between a couple 237 00:15:34,476 --> 00:15:37,436 Speaker 1: that seems to be really happy, really in love, they 238 00:15:37,476 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: want to be together for a long time, but they're 239 00:15:39,956 --> 00:15:44,156 Speaker 1: experiencing a change in the frequency of their sex. Yeah, 240 00:15:44,236 --> 00:15:47,836 Speaker 1: where Taylor, who called into the hotline, is not feeling 241 00:15:47,876 --> 00:15:52,596 Speaker 1: that super out of the blue, spontaneous desire like they 242 00:15:52,716 --> 00:15:56,196 Speaker 1: used to when they first started dating their girlfriend. So 243 00:15:56,276 --> 00:15:59,876 Speaker 1: I know this question is one that you get maybe 244 00:15:59,956 --> 00:16:03,036 Speaker 1: more than any other as a sex educator. And because 245 00:16:03,076 --> 00:16:05,876 Speaker 1: of that, I followed up with Taylor and I talk 246 00:16:05,956 --> 00:16:08,956 Speaker 1: to them about what contexts get them in the mood. 247 00:16:10,796 --> 00:16:12,796 Speaker 1: I was asking, what do you and your partner do 248 00:16:13,316 --> 00:16:16,076 Speaker 1: that does make you feel really good and comfortable and 249 00:16:16,396 --> 00:16:20,676 Speaker 1: is pleasurable, not necessarily sexually, And they said they really 250 00:16:20,716 --> 00:16:23,996 Speaker 1: liked laying in bed together with their girlfriend and just 251 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:29,596 Speaker 1: like talking about their day and getting words of affirmation 252 00:16:29,956 --> 00:16:33,156 Speaker 1: like I'm really proud of you. I think you're doing great, 253 00:16:33,436 --> 00:16:37,036 Speaker 1: I am so happy to be with you. You're a 254 00:16:37,036 --> 00:16:39,956 Speaker 1: great partner. Like they almost feel like they need that 255 00:16:40,196 --> 00:16:45,556 Speaker 1: before they can get turned on. There's another sex therapist 256 00:16:45,636 --> 00:16:51,556 Speaker 1: named Petro Zebroff who studies initiation styles essentially, and it 257 00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:56,756 Speaker 1: sounds like Taylor is a sentimental, emotional style. They want 258 00:16:56,756 --> 00:16:59,276 Speaker 1: to feel that sense of connection with the partner, being 259 00:16:59,276 --> 00:17:03,076 Speaker 1: really present and listening to each other with your hearts 260 00:17:03,116 --> 00:17:08,116 Speaker 1: and affirming your pleasure in being in the relationship. That's 261 00:17:08,156 --> 00:17:10,716 Speaker 1: not everyone's style, but that absolutely is one of the 262 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:16,236 Speaker 1: styles that people prefer in sexual initiation. You're telling me, 263 00:17:16,636 --> 00:17:19,276 Speaker 1: you know how there's like love languages, there's like an 264 00:17:19,316 --> 00:17:22,796 Speaker 1: initiation style of like you're one of these four styles. 265 00:17:23,476 --> 00:17:26,276 Speaker 1: That's a real thing. Yeah, So the research has been 266 00:17:26,316 --> 00:17:28,556 Speaker 1: evolving over the years. I actually included it in the 267 00:17:28,596 --> 00:17:31,396 Speaker 1: Come as you Are workbook when it was seven styles, 268 00:17:31,396 --> 00:17:34,756 Speaker 1: but in the following years it has simplified down to 269 00:17:34,916 --> 00:17:37,196 Speaker 1: four different styles. I'm sure we can put the questionnaire 270 00:17:37,556 --> 00:17:40,036 Speaker 1: into the show notes. It's the questionnaire for turn on 271 00:17:40,116 --> 00:17:44,396 Speaker 1: initiation preference or q TIP, which is just as adorable 272 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:48,956 Speaker 1: as it could possibly be. And that sentimental emotional style 273 00:17:49,236 --> 00:17:52,196 Speaker 1: is one of them. Another is sensation style, where this 274 00:17:52,236 --> 00:17:56,196 Speaker 1: person might want you to just go for the genitals, 275 00:17:56,396 --> 00:17:59,236 Speaker 1: or they might want to be touched somewhere else a 276 00:17:59,316 --> 00:18:02,956 Speaker 1: shoulder rub or an embrace or a kiss. We're experiencing 277 00:18:02,956 --> 00:18:06,316 Speaker 1: that physical sensation is the way to open the door 278 00:18:06,676 --> 00:18:10,636 Speaker 1: for them. It's actually really promising news to hear that 279 00:18:10,716 --> 00:18:14,396 Speaker 1: Taylor might be in that sentimental emotional style, because those 280 00:18:14,476 --> 00:18:19,236 Speaker 1: folks transition really well to embracing responsive desire, creating a 281 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,956 Speaker 1: context that makes pleasure easy, recognizing that there is this 282 00:18:23,076 --> 00:18:29,356 Speaker 1: intermediate step between not having sex and having sex. One 283 00:18:29,396 --> 00:18:33,436 Speaker 1: of the places people get stuck with normalizing, accepting, embracing 284 00:18:33,716 --> 00:18:36,996 Speaker 1: responsive desire in their lives is that they feel like, oh, 285 00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:39,876 Speaker 1: but it should be easy. I shouldn't have to put 286 00:18:39,916 --> 00:18:44,356 Speaker 1: in all this work. There shouldn't be like a transition period. 287 00:18:44,356 --> 00:18:47,316 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to work so hard for it, you know. 288 00:18:48,276 --> 00:18:51,116 Speaker 1: But if you think about what was happening in a 289 00:18:51,236 --> 00:18:56,236 Speaker 1: dating relationship, like don't you spend time planning and transitioning 290 00:18:56,796 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: into that sexy state of mind. Don't you spend time 291 00:18:59,356 --> 00:19:02,396 Speaker 1: grooming your body to get ready. Don't you spend time 292 00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:07,356 Speaker 1: planning the date and fantasizing about it and imagining what's 293 00:19:07,356 --> 00:19:10,036 Speaker 1: going to happen. Don't you spend time texting each other 294 00:19:10,116 --> 00:19:12,476 Speaker 1: back and forth all kinds of things all day about 295 00:19:12,516 --> 00:19:15,796 Speaker 1: how much you're looking forward to things. It's really not 296 00:19:16,076 --> 00:19:20,876 Speaker 1: more work to understand the things that come before the 297 00:19:20,956 --> 00:19:24,236 Speaker 1: sex right in order to create a context that makes 298 00:19:24,236 --> 00:19:28,476 Speaker 1: the sex worth wanting. So I know people love black 299 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:31,276 Speaker 1: and white thinking about identity categories. So I think when 300 00:19:31,356 --> 00:19:36,756 Speaker 1: people hear you talking about responsive and spontaneous desire and saying, oh, 301 00:19:36,796 --> 00:19:40,156 Speaker 1: I'm a responsive desire person, my partner is a spontaneous 302 00:19:40,196 --> 00:19:43,476 Speaker 1: desire person, and sort of putting themselves in that box 303 00:19:43,516 --> 00:19:48,556 Speaker 1: and treating their relationship like they are a responsive desire person. 304 00:19:48,836 --> 00:19:52,436 Speaker 1: Does it work like that for some people? It is? 305 00:19:53,156 --> 00:19:55,836 Speaker 1: And oh do people love to be in a category. 306 00:19:55,836 --> 00:19:57,276 Speaker 1: And it is the case that there are some people 307 00:19:57,316 --> 00:20:00,716 Speaker 1: who experience exclusively responsive desire in their lives and people 308 00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:06,036 Speaker 1: who experience exclusively spontaneous desire in their lives, But most 309 00:20:06,076 --> 00:20:10,076 Speaker 1: of us it's not about a trade that's stable like 310 00:20:10,116 --> 00:20:14,116 Speaker 1: introversion extraversion. That is actually a trait that's pretty stable 311 00:20:14,556 --> 00:20:20,236 Speaker 1: across your lifetime, right, But desire style isn't like that. 312 00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:23,236 Speaker 1: It is very responsive to context. So there will be 313 00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:26,756 Speaker 1: some contexts. For example, in the early hot and heavy, 314 00:20:26,756 --> 00:20:29,356 Speaker 1: fallen in love stage of a relationship, you're in the 315 00:20:29,436 --> 00:20:32,596 Speaker 1: kitchen cooking dinner and your partner comes over and kisses 316 00:20:32,596 --> 00:20:35,236 Speaker 1: you in some certain special place, and your knees melt 317 00:20:35,236 --> 00:20:38,276 Speaker 1: and you let dinner burn because all it took was 318 00:20:38,316 --> 00:20:42,476 Speaker 1: that to get you going. Ten years later and maybe 319 00:20:42,516 --> 00:20:45,276 Speaker 1: some kids, you're in the same kitchen cooking the same meal, 320 00:20:45,676 --> 00:20:47,876 Speaker 1: and the same partner comes in and kisses you in 321 00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:50,996 Speaker 1: the same certain special way, and your response is not 322 00:20:51,156 --> 00:20:53,396 Speaker 1: knees melting, let dinner burn, It is could you please 323 00:20:53,436 --> 00:20:58,676 Speaker 1: go set the table? Nothing is wrong there, nobody got broken, 324 00:20:59,156 --> 00:21:04,196 Speaker 1: it's just the context is different. So you're saying, like, 325 00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:07,556 Speaker 1: the same people that experience spontaneous desire in the past 326 00:21:08,076 --> 00:21:11,236 Speaker 1: could experience sponsive desire nail. And it doesn't mean that 327 00:21:11,276 --> 00:21:14,476 Speaker 1: they have gotten worse at connecting or worse at having sex, 328 00:21:14,596 --> 00:21:18,116 Speaker 1: or that their sexual connection has degraded in some way. Yeah, No, 329 00:21:18,236 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 1: it's just that the contact and when I say context, 330 00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:24,716 Speaker 1: I'm talking both about your external circumstances and your internal state. 331 00:21:24,876 --> 00:21:28,836 Speaker 1: Like when you're in that like early new relationship energy situation, 332 00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:35,756 Speaker 1: your brain's emotional systems are firing on all cylinders and 333 00:21:35,996 --> 00:21:38,956 Speaker 1: the sparks of that, it's easy for them to catch 334 00:21:38,956 --> 00:21:41,956 Speaker 1: over into sexuality and make it easy to experience what 335 00:21:42,116 --> 00:21:46,116 Speaker 1: feels like spontaneous desire for sex when you've been in 336 00:21:46,116 --> 00:21:49,036 Speaker 1: a relationship for a long time. It is normal that 337 00:21:49,036 --> 00:21:54,436 Speaker 1: that like huge fire burns down to a smolder and 338 00:21:54,516 --> 00:21:58,916 Speaker 1: it takes a little stoking of the fire to let 339 00:21:58,956 --> 00:22:03,116 Speaker 1: it burst into flame. There's nothing wrong with that. Yes, 340 00:22:03,316 --> 00:22:05,356 Speaker 1: And on that note, I would love to get to 341 00:22:05,396 --> 00:22:08,876 Speaker 1: some specific practical tips for Taylor. I want to break 342 00:22:08,876 --> 00:22:11,876 Speaker 1: down Taylor's question further and make sure that when they 343 00:22:11,916 --> 00:22:15,996 Speaker 1: hear this episode they're satisfied with like real take home 344 00:22:16,596 --> 00:22:19,716 Speaker 1: assignments that they can YEA, they know what to do. Yes, 345 00:22:19,796 --> 00:22:21,716 Speaker 1: they know what to do, and it's not just like 346 00:22:21,716 --> 00:22:24,716 Speaker 1: a theoretical change. I think we've already talked about the 347 00:22:24,756 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 1: great framework of responsive desire and also initiation styles, which 348 00:22:28,676 --> 00:22:32,356 Speaker 1: I think is so interesting and seems like they're an emotional, 349 00:22:32,396 --> 00:22:37,636 Speaker 1: sentimental initiation style person. So let's break down some specific 350 00:22:37,676 --> 00:22:40,876 Speaker 1: parts of the question that we heard, and I want 351 00:22:40,876 --> 00:22:43,036 Speaker 1: to just play it again for you so we can 352 00:22:43,476 --> 00:22:47,076 Speaker 1: talk about these specifics. When we first met, we had 353 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:50,676 Speaker 1: this extreme sexual attraction. We wanted to have sex all 354 00:22:50,716 --> 00:22:53,076 Speaker 1: the time. We couldn't keep our hands off each other. 355 00:22:53,116 --> 00:22:56,116 Speaker 1: But since we moved in together this year, I'm just 356 00:22:56,196 --> 00:22:59,956 Speaker 1: wanting sex less. I don't know what it is. I 357 00:23:00,036 --> 00:23:02,636 Speaker 1: know my feelings for her haven't changed. I still feel 358 00:23:02,636 --> 00:23:07,396 Speaker 1: attracted to her, so that's not the problem. Maybe it's 359 00:23:07,436 --> 00:23:10,716 Speaker 1: that I'm stressed out about any and my job, but 360 00:23:11,636 --> 00:23:15,436 Speaker 1: I still want to want it. It's not that I 361 00:23:15,476 --> 00:23:19,716 Speaker 1: don't want her. I do intellectually. So the first thing 362 00:23:19,996 --> 00:23:22,796 Speaker 1: that has changed in the context is that Taylor is 363 00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:26,956 Speaker 1: feeling critical of their own sexual desire. There are also 364 00:23:27,036 --> 00:23:30,036 Speaker 1: a couple of other explicit context changes that we know 365 00:23:30,116 --> 00:23:35,196 Speaker 1: could potentially be changing the response of the accelerator. In 366 00:23:35,236 --> 00:23:38,316 Speaker 1: the breaks, there's a stress about money and jobs. Do 367 00:23:38,356 --> 00:23:43,516 Speaker 1: we think that could possibly be hitting the brakes? Yeah? Yeah, right, 368 00:23:44,796 --> 00:23:48,396 Speaker 1: So stress is a physiological response. Is not like just stress, 369 00:23:48,436 --> 00:23:51,316 Speaker 1: it's like an idea. It's a physical response that happens 370 00:23:51,316 --> 00:23:54,156 Speaker 1: in your body. The fight or flight response is there 371 00:23:54,196 --> 00:23:56,836 Speaker 1: to help us survive something like being chased by a lion, 372 00:23:57,196 --> 00:23:59,556 Speaker 1: and for a lot of us, eighty to ninety percent 373 00:23:59,556 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 1: of people, stress can really hit the brakes because if 374 00:24:03,436 --> 00:24:06,356 Speaker 1: you're being chased by a lion, is that a good 375 00:24:06,396 --> 00:24:11,196 Speaker 1: time to decide to have sex? Not so much? Right right. 376 00:24:11,796 --> 00:24:15,316 Speaker 1: A second thing that changed is that they moved in together. 377 00:24:16,236 --> 00:24:21,036 Speaker 1: Relationship transitions are significant and have a lot of meaning. 378 00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:25,356 Speaker 1: So now their relationship is happening in a context where 379 00:24:25,756 --> 00:24:31,236 Speaker 1: they're sharing householding responsibilities. Maybe it does not enhance their 380 00:24:31,276 --> 00:24:36,036 Speaker 1: sense of erotic connection with their partner to need their 381 00:24:36,076 --> 00:24:39,996 Speaker 1: partner to clean the toilet because it's their turn, or 382 00:24:40,036 --> 00:24:42,716 Speaker 1: whose job is it to take out the recycling this week? 383 00:24:43,276 --> 00:24:49,716 Speaker 1: Those kinds of negotiations may not necessarily enhance spontaneous desire 384 00:24:49,796 --> 00:24:53,436 Speaker 1: for someone. This makes so much sense because when I 385 00:24:53,476 --> 00:24:56,596 Speaker 1: was following up with Taylor, they said, you know, in 386 00:24:56,596 --> 00:25:00,956 Speaker 1: my early relationship, we would text, you know, we basically 387 00:25:00,956 --> 00:25:03,116 Speaker 1: had a hook up relationship, and I would text her 388 00:25:03,116 --> 00:25:05,996 Speaker 1: and be like, do you want to meet up later? 389 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,916 Speaker 1: You know winky face, and she would be like yes, 390 00:25:09,156 --> 00:25:11,116 Speaker 1: And as soon as they saw each other, like Taylor 391 00:25:11,156 --> 00:25:13,676 Speaker 1: would go over to her apartment and as soon as 392 00:25:13,676 --> 00:25:16,036 Speaker 1: they saw each other, it was like hot and heavy. 393 00:25:16,276 --> 00:25:19,556 Speaker 1: And then as they have gotten to be more of 394 00:25:19,596 --> 00:25:22,756 Speaker 1: a partnered couple and like doing life together and moving 395 00:25:22,796 --> 00:25:26,476 Speaker 1: in together, there's less of that every time I see you, 396 00:25:27,556 --> 00:25:31,556 Speaker 1: we're going to have sex energy, and it's more of 397 00:25:31,596 --> 00:25:35,236 Speaker 1: like we gotta take care of the car today and 398 00:25:35,436 --> 00:25:39,396 Speaker 1: we have to bring the dog todaycare except somebody has 399 00:25:39,396 --> 00:25:43,556 Speaker 1: to do the dishes. Yeah, the context changed. The context changed, okay, 400 00:25:43,796 --> 00:25:46,276 Speaker 1: And it is so easy because we have all been 401 00:25:46,316 --> 00:25:49,676 Speaker 1: trained to think that spontaneous desire is the normal, good desire, 402 00:25:50,036 --> 00:25:52,796 Speaker 1: and we like it because it's fun and it's easy. 403 00:25:53,316 --> 00:25:55,716 Speaker 1: We think that it is the right way. When you 404 00:25:55,756 --> 00:25:58,516 Speaker 1: ask where did that go? Under that like where did 405 00:25:58,556 --> 00:26:02,316 Speaker 1: that go? Is like why am I broken? Now? And 406 00:26:03,116 --> 00:26:05,596 Speaker 1: no one is broken. Nothing is wrong. This is just 407 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:10,676 Speaker 1: a different context, and these individual's brains happen to be 408 00:26:10,716 --> 00:26:13,676 Speaker 1: wired in a way such that when they're living together, 409 00:26:13,956 --> 00:26:17,716 Speaker 1: the desire shifts into a more responsive style where it 410 00:26:17,756 --> 00:26:22,036 Speaker 1: takes intentional effort to create the hot and heavy fallen 411 00:26:22,076 --> 00:26:26,196 Speaker 1: in love. You had also mentioned self criticism. Yes, and 412 00:26:26,476 --> 00:26:28,836 Speaker 1: I had noticed that when I was first hearing their question, 413 00:26:29,476 --> 00:26:31,276 Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? Yeah, they end the 414 00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:34,596 Speaker 1: question with I don't know what's wrong with me, and 415 00:26:34,716 --> 00:26:37,156 Speaker 1: I just want to like a hug tailor and be like, 416 00:26:37,196 --> 00:26:40,356 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with you. You are totally fine. But 417 00:26:40,916 --> 00:26:43,916 Speaker 1: self criticism that like worry that you might be broken. 418 00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:47,196 Speaker 1: Is that going to activate the accelerator or is that 419 00:26:47,236 --> 00:26:49,956 Speaker 1: self critical thought gonna hit the brakes. It's like you're 420 00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:52,076 Speaker 1: being chased by the lion, but the lion is your 421 00:26:52,116 --> 00:26:55,436 Speaker 1: own thoughts. Oh God Jesus, that's not going to make 422 00:26:55,476 --> 00:26:57,556 Speaker 1: it easier to want and like the sex. It's available 423 00:26:57,556 --> 00:27:02,236 Speaker 1: to you, right right, So it is normal that your 424 00:27:02,276 --> 00:27:06,396 Speaker 1: experience of desire has changed, and then you focus on pleasure. 425 00:27:07,116 --> 00:27:09,396 Speaker 1: Do I like the sex that I am having the 426 00:27:09,436 --> 00:27:12,116 Speaker 1: sex it's available to me? Do I know what the 427 00:27:12,156 --> 00:27:15,676 Speaker 1: transition is like to get me out of my stressed, 428 00:27:15,796 --> 00:27:18,796 Speaker 1: mundane state of mind into a sexy state of mind? 429 00:27:19,276 --> 00:27:23,436 Speaker 1: Can I talk with my partner about the context that 430 00:27:23,836 --> 00:27:28,636 Speaker 1: help with that transition for her? When you've got those 431 00:27:28,716 --> 00:27:31,996 Speaker 1: kinds of conversations happening, you are opening up the door 432 00:27:32,476 --> 00:27:35,676 Speaker 1: to the kind of erotic connection that just is not 433 00:27:35,916 --> 00:27:39,836 Speaker 1: accessible with simple spontaneous out of the blue desire because 434 00:27:39,836 --> 00:27:45,716 Speaker 1: you're collaborating to create something entirely individual and unique, which 435 00:27:45,756 --> 00:27:49,356 Speaker 1: can carry you to places in your body and your 436 00:27:49,396 --> 00:27:52,956 Speaker 1: emotions that you can't get from quick can't wait to 437 00:27:53,076 --> 00:27:56,836 Speaker 1: fuck you. I love the idea of collaborating to create 438 00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,396 Speaker 1: sex as a creative person. That makes me like, almost 439 00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:03,516 Speaker 1: emotional about the idea of collaborating. Oh good, because I 440 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:05,876 Speaker 1: sometimes people are like, it's a whole lot of work, 441 00:28:06,036 --> 00:28:08,116 Speaker 1: and I'm like, it's a hobby. It's something you do 442 00:28:08,236 --> 00:28:13,716 Speaker 1: because you enjoy it. After the break, I'm going to 443 00:28:13,796 --> 00:28:16,596 Speaker 1: give you a little spoiler, Emily blows my mind with 444 00:28:16,636 --> 00:28:21,076 Speaker 1: a theory about why we are so obsessed with sexual desire, 445 00:28:21,756 --> 00:28:24,836 Speaker 1: and she offers kind of an alternative for what we 446 00:28:24,876 --> 00:28:28,316 Speaker 1: can focus on instead that might lead to better sex. 447 00:28:40,196 --> 00:28:42,956 Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We're doing this thing. So Emily, 448 00:28:43,236 --> 00:28:46,196 Speaker 1: I love that you're like breaking down all these potential 449 00:28:46,876 --> 00:28:50,156 Speaker 1: things hitting the brakes in Taylor's question and maybe things 450 00:28:50,196 --> 00:28:52,796 Speaker 1: getting in the way of them experiencing desire at all. 451 00:28:53,316 --> 00:28:57,196 Speaker 1: But obviously, if you're in a stress about money or 452 00:28:57,276 --> 00:28:59,476 Speaker 1: health or something like that, that's not just something that 453 00:28:59,876 --> 00:29:02,596 Speaker 1: can just go away. So how do you deal with that? 454 00:29:02,636 --> 00:29:05,076 Speaker 1: With that's just the state of your life right now. 455 00:29:07,436 --> 00:29:10,796 Speaker 1: So the first simple solution is whatever else is happening 456 00:29:10,836 --> 00:29:13,116 Speaker 1: in your life when you put your body in the 457 00:29:13,156 --> 00:29:17,196 Speaker 1: bed with your partner, do you like it? If yes, 458 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:22,756 Speaker 1: you're all ready most of the way there. Now, there's 459 00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:25,036 Speaker 1: other things that are less controllable, like the money part. 460 00:29:25,116 --> 00:29:29,116 Speaker 1: Like if we could just have their business already be 461 00:29:29,156 --> 00:29:32,116 Speaker 1: a massive success and they sell it and are a 462 00:29:32,156 --> 00:29:35,996 Speaker 1: billionaire and they never have to worry about money ever. Again. Cool, 463 00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:38,436 Speaker 1: But the reality is that most of us are going 464 00:29:38,476 --> 00:29:40,596 Speaker 1: to stay stressed most of the time, and there are 465 00:29:40,596 --> 00:29:43,156 Speaker 1: things you can do to reduce the stress even when 466 00:29:43,476 --> 00:29:46,956 Speaker 1: your life stress or is still present. I know most 467 00:29:46,956 --> 00:29:48,876 Speaker 1: of us are taught that the way to deal with 468 00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:51,116 Speaker 1: the stress in your body is to deal with the 469 00:29:51,156 --> 00:29:53,436 Speaker 1: stress or in the outside. That's not true. See chapter 470 00:29:53,556 --> 00:29:57,676 Speaker 1: one of Burnout for that. But it is possible to 471 00:29:57,876 --> 00:30:01,236 Speaker 1: process the stress and calm the central nervous system so 472 00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:03,396 Speaker 1: that the body feels nice and relaxed and that stress 473 00:30:03,476 --> 00:30:06,356 Speaker 1: is not hitting the brakes, which frees up the accelerator 474 00:30:06,396 --> 00:30:12,276 Speaker 1: to do its job. Why do you think society values 475 00:30:12,356 --> 00:30:16,396 Speaker 1: spontaneous desire so much more than responsive desire, like why 476 00:30:16,396 --> 00:30:23,516 Speaker 1: has response, the experience of responsive desire been just erased. Yeah, 477 00:30:23,556 --> 00:30:25,636 Speaker 1: there's not a scientific answer that I can give you, 478 00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:29,556 Speaker 1: but my opinion is obviously it's the patriarchy a little bit, 479 00:30:29,716 --> 00:30:32,196 Speaker 1: which so that's for sure a part of it. Yeah, 480 00:30:32,236 --> 00:30:36,036 Speaker 1: But I think there's another level. I think we live 481 00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:39,996 Speaker 1: in a culture that says that wanting sex is good 482 00:30:40,356 --> 00:30:42,876 Speaker 1: as long as you don't want it too much, of course, 483 00:30:43,156 --> 00:30:45,956 Speaker 1: and not wanting sex is bad, and it means you're 484 00:30:45,996 --> 00:30:49,116 Speaker 1: a failure if you're not constantly ready for it. Like 485 00:30:49,356 --> 00:30:52,036 Speaker 1: wop was a super hit and a great song, Yeah, 486 00:30:52,036 --> 00:30:55,316 Speaker 1: but would people be as into a song that's just 487 00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:58,876 Speaker 1: as much of a bop? Or what is it the 488 00:30:58,916 --> 00:31:01,116 Speaker 1: kids saying about a good song? It's just as good 489 00:31:01,116 --> 00:31:02,796 Speaker 1: as song, but the lyrics are like I am too 490 00:31:02,876 --> 00:31:07,356 Speaker 1: damn tired, and that's okay, too right. I love that 491 00:31:07,396 --> 00:31:09,796 Speaker 1: women can be confident about their sexuality, but I want 492 00:31:09,796 --> 00:31:11,876 Speaker 1: a world where we can be just as confident about 493 00:31:11,876 --> 00:31:16,076 Speaker 1: our sexuality when it does not conform to the dominant narratives. 494 00:31:17,676 --> 00:31:25,156 Speaker 1: I think you're talking about a top a tired ass pussy, yeah, 495 00:31:25,276 --> 00:31:31,316 Speaker 1: or a mop a menopausal ass pussy. Beautiful. But also 496 00:31:31,556 --> 00:31:35,556 Speaker 1: I think it's capitalism. Right. We're encouraged to want things, 497 00:31:35,636 --> 00:31:38,236 Speaker 1: to want all kinds of things, to want that new toy, 498 00:31:38,316 --> 00:31:41,516 Speaker 1: to want the new brand, extension flavor of orioles. Right, 499 00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:44,036 Speaker 1: we just you're supposed to want things. And if we 500 00:31:44,076 --> 00:31:48,636 Speaker 1: pause in our wanting to enjoy, well, we have to 501 00:31:48,796 --> 00:31:52,196 Speaker 1: experience pleasure, then we stop striving to get new stuff. 502 00:31:52,196 --> 00:31:54,716 Speaker 1: And how can we take pleasure in what we already 503 00:31:54,716 --> 00:31:58,196 Speaker 1: have in this economy? Get out there and want something 504 00:31:58,236 --> 00:32:04,036 Speaker 1: you don't have. I think, just think how bizarre this is. 505 00:32:04,756 --> 00:32:08,596 Speaker 1: We seem to define our sexual well being in terms 506 00:32:08,716 --> 00:32:12,716 Speaker 1: of desire, right, in terms of how dissatisfied we are 507 00:32:12,796 --> 00:32:15,796 Speaker 1: with the amount of sex we're having right now, right, 508 00:32:15,836 --> 00:32:19,876 Speaker 1: because wanting is wanting something you don't have and maybe 509 00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:26,236 Speaker 1: trying to get that thing, whereas liking sex is about 510 00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:31,476 Speaker 1: liking what you have and enjoying that. And if we 511 00:32:31,516 --> 00:32:34,636 Speaker 1: put pleasure instead of desire at the center of our 512 00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:37,876 Speaker 1: definition of sexual well being, all the other pieces fall 513 00:32:37,956 --> 00:32:42,876 Speaker 1: into place. We stop being dissatisfied and begin to enjoy 514 00:32:42,956 --> 00:32:47,716 Speaker 1: the sex we are having. Holy shit, So you're basically 515 00:32:47,756 --> 00:32:51,916 Speaker 1: saying our entire society, okay, let's blow my mind. Our 516 00:32:52,036 --> 00:32:56,636 Speaker 1: entire society is set up to prioritize wanting over liking, 517 00:32:57,036 --> 00:33:04,236 Speaker 1: because wanting is a functional capitalism, And so we're doing 518 00:33:04,236 --> 00:33:08,276 Speaker 1: all this, We're putting all this priority on wanting stuff 519 00:33:08,276 --> 00:33:10,316 Speaker 1: instead of liking what we already have. And that also 520 00:33:10,396 --> 00:33:13,596 Speaker 1: has impacted our sex how we think about sex and desire. 521 00:33:14,556 --> 00:33:17,676 Speaker 1: I think so. I can't prove it, but I think so. 522 00:33:18,756 --> 00:33:21,676 Speaker 1: That's a really hot take, Emily Nagowski. I like that 523 00:33:21,756 --> 00:33:33,356 Speaker 1: a lot. All right, Emily, let's end with a TLDR. Yeah, 524 00:33:33,476 --> 00:33:39,756 Speaker 1: let's do the recap. First of all, spontaneous desire emerges 525 00:33:39,796 --> 00:33:45,836 Speaker 1: in anticipation of pleasure. Responsive desire emerges in response to pleasure. 526 00:33:46,556 --> 00:33:49,796 Speaker 1: Both of these are normal, and most people experience both 527 00:33:49,916 --> 00:33:52,836 Speaker 1: at different times in their lives. Neither is better than 528 00:33:52,836 --> 00:33:57,516 Speaker 1: the other, but one is more reliably associated with a 529 00:33:57,516 --> 00:34:01,356 Speaker 1: satisfying sex life in a long term relationship. Which desire 530 00:34:01,436 --> 00:34:04,276 Speaker 1: style is more associated with a satisfying sex life and 531 00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:10,196 Speaker 1: a long term relationship? Responsive desire is the one second 532 00:34:10,196 --> 00:34:13,876 Speaker 1: thing to know. Judging your experience of responsive desire as 533 00:34:14,036 --> 00:34:17,876 Speaker 1: inferior or a lot of work instead of normal and 534 00:34:18,036 --> 00:34:20,716 Speaker 1: a fun hobby is a great way to hit the brakes. 535 00:34:22,396 --> 00:34:26,596 Speaker 1: Judging responsive desire can even make it more difficult to 536 00:34:26,636 --> 00:34:29,516 Speaker 1: want or like the sext you might otherwise be having. 537 00:34:30,036 --> 00:34:34,636 Speaker 1: Whereas when you embrace responsive desire, you create an opportunity 538 00:34:34,676 --> 00:34:39,036 Speaker 1: to enjoy the experience of creating a context that makes 539 00:34:39,076 --> 00:34:45,796 Speaker 1: it easy to feel pleasure, and from pleasure, desire will follow. 540 00:34:47,596 --> 00:34:51,956 Speaker 1: Three create that context, whether you put your body in 541 00:34:51,996 --> 00:34:54,236 Speaker 1: the bed and let your skin touch your partner's skin, 542 00:34:54,756 --> 00:34:58,276 Speaker 1: or you have that deeply connected conversation, or you put 543 00:34:58,276 --> 00:35:01,516 Speaker 1: on your most enticing underpants and serve dinner that way. 544 00:35:01,756 --> 00:35:05,036 Speaker 1: There is no right or wrong way to create a context. 545 00:35:05,316 --> 00:35:12,436 Speaker 1: There's only pleasure with everyone's consent. And finally, for when 546 00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:14,996 Speaker 1: you put pleasure at the center of your definition of 547 00:35:15,036 --> 00:35:26,676 Speaker 1: sexual well being, desire will follow every time. Next week 548 00:35:27,076 --> 00:35:37,476 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about, drum roll please, orgasms. Hmm. 549 00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:40,396 Speaker 1: If this was Cosmo magazine, it would be the big 550 00:35:40,396 --> 00:35:44,516 Speaker 1: O issue, the big oh show, Baby, We're doing it, okay. 551 00:35:44,716 --> 00:35:48,436 Speaker 1: People love a conversation about orgasm. People love a science fact. 552 00:35:48,636 --> 00:35:53,876 Speaker 1: Oh the science facts you have about orgasms. Emily, I'm 553 00:35:53,916 --> 00:35:57,196 Speaker 1: gonna say one thing about the orgasm episodes. I always 554 00:35:57,196 --> 00:35:59,796 Speaker 1: thought that there were different kinds of orgasms because some 555 00:35:59,876 --> 00:36:03,956 Speaker 1: of them feel different, like you know, the internal vaginal orgasm, 556 00:36:04,036 --> 00:36:09,556 Speaker 1: the clatoral orgasm, the ascasm, etc. But I learned in 557 00:36:09,596 --> 00:36:14,556 Speaker 1: the next episode that there is only one kind of 558 00:36:14,596 --> 00:36:28,356 Speaker 1: work as m Yeah. Come As You Are is a 559 00:36:28,396 --> 00:36:32,196 Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries and Madison Wells. It's hosted by 560 00:36:32,196 --> 00:36:35,876 Speaker 1: Emily Nagowski. You can find Emily on Instagram at e 561 00:36:36,076 --> 00:36:40,276 Speaker 1: Nagowski and on Twitter at Emily Nagowski. You can also 562 00:36:40,316 --> 00:36:43,876 Speaker 1: sign up for her newsletter at Emily Nagowski dot com, 563 00:36:43,876 --> 00:36:46,956 Speaker 1: where she writes about everything from the clitteriest in your 564 00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:51,196 Speaker 1: mind to orgasm after having hysterectomy. It's an incredible newsletter. 565 00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:55,356 Speaker 1: Highly recommended. This show is co hosted and lead produced 566 00:36:55,396 --> 00:36:58,636 Speaker 1: by me Mola Board. You can find me online at 567 00:36:58,676 --> 00:37:03,516 Speaker 1: Mola Board and on TikTok at podcast dot slut, Sorry 568 00:37:03,516 --> 00:37:06,676 Speaker 1: mom My. Co producer on this show is the fabulous 569 00:37:06,676 --> 00:37:11,076 Speaker 1: Brittany Brown. Our editor is Kate Parkinson Morgan. Sound design 570 00:37:11,116 --> 00:37:14,996 Speaker 1: and mix by Anne Pope. Executive producers are Mia LaBelle 571 00:37:15,036 --> 00:37:19,076 Speaker 1: and Lee taal Mallad at Pushkin. Thanks to Heather Faine, 572 00:37:19,196 --> 00:37:25,356 Speaker 1: Carly Migliori, Sophie Crane, Courtney Guarino, Jason Gambrel Julia Barton, 573 00:37:25,876 --> 00:37:30,236 Speaker 1: John Schnars, and Jacob Weisberg at Madison Wells. Thanks to 574 00:37:30,316 --> 00:37:35,636 Speaker 1: Kylie Williams, Elizabeth Goodstein and Gg Pritzker. Additional thanks to 575 00:37:35,836 --> 00:37:41,876 Speaker 1: Rich Stevens, Lindsay Edgecombe, Frolick Media, and Peter Acker at 576 00:37:42,036 --> 00:37:46,196 Speaker 1: Armadillo Audio Group. Original music for this series was composed 577 00:37:46,196 --> 00:37:52,556 Speaker 1: by Ameliagosky and arranged and recorded by Alexandra Kalinovsky. Additional 578 00:37:52,636 --> 00:37:56,916 Speaker 1: music from Epidemic Sound. You can find Pushkin on all 579 00:37:57,076 --> 00:38:00,636 Speaker 1: social platforms at Pushkin Pods, and you can sign up 580 00:38:00,636 --> 00:38:04,196 Speaker 1: for our newsletter at pushkin dot Fm. If you love 581 00:38:04,236 --> 00:38:07,916 Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to 582 00:38:07,956 --> 00:38:12,596 Speaker 1: pushkin blood Us. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that 583 00:38:12,756 --> 00:38:17,396 Speaker 1: offers bonus content in uninterrupted listening for only four ninety 584 00:38:17,436 --> 00:38:20,436 Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast 585 00:38:20,476 --> 00:38:24,196 Speaker 1: subscriptions or at pushkin dot Fm. If you subscribe to 586 00:38:24,236 --> 00:38:26,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus, you can hear Come as you Are and 587 00:38:26,876 --> 00:38:30,916 Speaker 1: other Pushkin shows add free very nice, and you'll get 588 00:38:30,956 --> 00:38:33,836 Speaker 1: episodes a week early. Sign up on the Come as 589 00:38:33,836 --> 00:38:36,796 Speaker 1: you Are show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin 590 00:38:36,996 --> 00:38:40,676 Speaker 1: dot fm. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the 591 00:38:40,716 --> 00:38:44,556 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you like to listen. 592 00:38:48,356 --> 00:38:50,356 Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe so you can get the next 593 00:38:50,356 --> 00:38:53,796 Speaker 1: episode and learn about how a schasm isn't its own 594 00:38:53,876 --> 00:38:58,676 Speaker 1: kind of orgasm? How is that? Emily? Do you like that? 595 00:38:57,996 --> 00:39:01,476 Speaker 1: That was fully unnecessary and I'm here for it.