Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised. Hey, gang,
Speaker 1: just a reminder that I have a massive false speaking
Speaker 1: tour approaching. I will very soon be making stops in Sacramento,
Speaker 1: San Diego, Tucson, and Scottsdale. Then in October, I've got
Speaker 1: stops in Texas, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin and more.
Speaker 1: Get all the details and tickets at Amy dash Brunei
Speaker 1: dot net. I hope to see you out there, my
Speaker 1: spooky friends. Waterloo, Iowa, January Dear sirs, I am writing
Speaker 1: you in regard to a rumor going around that my
Speaker 1: five sons were killed in action in November. A mother
Speaker 1: from here came and told me that she got a
Speaker 1: letter from her son and he heard my five sons
Speaker 1: were killed. It is all over town now, and I
Speaker 1: am so worried. My five sons joined the Navy together
Speaker 1: a year ago January third, nineteen forty two. They are
Speaker 1: on the cruiser U S. S Juno. The last I
Speaker 1: heard from them was November eighth. That is, it was
Speaker 1: dated November eighth, U S. Navy. Their names are George T. Francis,
Speaker 1: Henry Joseph E. Madison A. And Albert L. If it
Speaker 1: is so, please let me know the truth. I am
Speaker 1: to christen the U. S. S. Twassah February twelfth, at Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: If anything has happened to my five sons, I will
Speaker 1: still christen the ship, as it was their wish that
Speaker 1: I do so. I hated to bother you, but it
Speaker 1: has worried me so that I wanted to know if
Speaker 1: it was true. So please tell me. It was hard
Speaker 1: to give five sons all at once to the Navy,
Speaker 1: but I am proud of my boys that they can
Speaker 1: serve and help protect their country. George and Francis served
Speaker 1: four years on the U S. S. Holvey, and I
Speaker 1: had the pleasure to go aboard their ship in nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty seven. I am so happy the Navy has bestowed
Speaker 1: the honor on me to christen the U. S. S. Twassa.
Speaker 1: My husband and daughter are going to Portland with me.
Speaker 1: I remain sincerely Mrs Elita Sullivan, Adams Street, Waterloo, Iowa.
Speaker 1: My dear mister and Mrs Sullivan, the knowledge that your
Speaker 1: five gallant sons are missing in action against the enemy
Speaker 1: inspires me to write you this personal message. I realize
Speaker 1: full well there is little I can say to assuase
Speaker 1: your grief. As Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy,
Speaker 1: I want you to know that the entire nation shares
Speaker 1: in your sorrow. I offer you the condolences and gratitude
Speaker 1: of our country. We who remain to carry on the
Speaker 1: fight must maintain spirit in the knowledge that such sacrifice
Speaker 1: is not in vain. The Navy Department has informed me
Speaker 1: of the express desire of your sons George Thomas, Francis,
Speaker 1: Henry Joseph, Eugene, Madison, Abel and Albert Leo to serve
Speaker 1: in the same ship. I am sure that we all
Speaker 1: take heart in the knowledge that they fought side by side.
Speaker 1: As one of your sons wrote, we will make a
Speaker 1: team together that can't be beat. It is this spirit which,
Speaker 1: in the end must triumph. Last March, you, Mrs Sullivan,
Speaker 1: were designated to sponsor a ship of the Navy in
Speaker 1: recognition of your patriotism and that of your sons. I
Speaker 1: understand that you are now even more determined to carry
Speaker 1: on his sponsor. This evidence of unselfishness and of courage
Speaker 1: serves as a real inspiration for me, as I am
Speaker 1: sure it will for all Americans. Such acts of faith
Speaker 1: and fortitude in the face of tragedy convinced me of
Speaker 1: the indomitable spirit and will of our people. I send
Speaker 1: you my deepest sympathy in your hour of trial, and
Speaker 1: pray that in Almighty God you will find the comfort
Speaker 1: and help that only He can bring. Very sincerely, yours,
Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome to Haunted Road.
Speaker 1: In the Naval Park in Buffalo, New York, three majestic
Speaker 1: ships float quietly in the water, part of a large
Speaker 1: scale tribute to the United States military and the sacrifices
Speaker 1: made by soldiers who were wounded or killed in the
Speaker 1: name of freedom. Tens of thousands of people tore the
Speaker 1: ships every year, exploring the corridors where sailors walked, the
Speaker 1: bunks where they slept, the control rooms where they operated
Speaker 1: the ships, and the decks where they stood and watched
Speaker 1: for approaching ships, ready for the battles that lay ahead.
Speaker 1: All three of the boats, the U. S S. Croker,
Speaker 1: the U. S S. Little Rock, and the U S
Speaker 1: S The Sullivans, were decommissioned decades ago and are no
Speaker 1: longer in use by the Navy, but many people believe
Speaker 1: that the sailors who once manned those ships never left.
Speaker 1: I witness account detail hearing phantom footsteps and mysterious whispers,
Speaker 1: objects flying across the room, and blurred faces and photos.
Speaker 1: Some people report seeing full body apparitions in places where
Speaker 1: there are no other living people, including the burned face
Speaker 1: and torso of a man who died tragically in a bombing,
Speaker 1: the last to parish of five brothers who were all
Speaker 1: killed in the attack. The second largest city in New York, Buffalo,
Speaker 1: sits on the shores of Lake Erie, by the origin
Speaker 1: of the Niagara River. Today, Buffalo, also known as the
Speaker 1: Queen City, is mostly known for two things. It's intense
Speaker 1: snowy winters. The city gets eighty five inches of snow
Speaker 1: a year, more than three times the national average. And
Speaker 1: it's intense spicy sauce that has become so popular it's
Speaker 1: served all over the country. But once, the city of
Speaker 1: more than two hundred fifty thousand was a booming industrial
Speaker 1: town which experienced the same economic downturn as many Rust
Speaker 1: Belt cities that lost manufacturing jobs to corporations moving their
Speaker 1: plants overseas. Though a or a decade long revitalization effort,
Speaker 1: Buffalo is currently experiencing an economic turnaround and population growth.
Speaker 1: Planning began in nineteen seventy six for what would be
Speaker 1: the Buffalo and Erie County Naval and Military Park. It
Speaker 1: opened in nineteen seventy nine as the largest inland attraction
Speaker 1: of its kind in the country. The waterfront park has
Speaker 1: three large tourable ships. The U. S S. Little Rock
Speaker 1: is a guided missile cruiser, the U S. S. The
Speaker 1: Sullivan's is a Fletcher class destroyer, and the U. S S.
Speaker 1: Croker is a submarine. In addition, the park features a
Speaker 1: garden of war memorials, a museum of military history, and
Speaker 1: several other exhibits, including PTF seventeen, a fast patrol boat
Speaker 1: from the Nasty class that was used in Vietnam, plus planes, tanks,
Speaker 1: and a helicopter. It brings in more than seventy thousand
Speaker 1: visitors annually. The largest of the three tourable ships at
Speaker 1: Buffalo Naval Park is the U. S S. Little Rock, which,
Speaker 1: according to the history of the park, is a guided
Speaker 1: missile cruiser. The only surviving vessel from the Cleveland Glass
Speaker 1: of light cruisers in World War Two. The ship is
Speaker 1: six hundred ten feet long and housed eleven hundred enlisted
Speaker 1: men at a time, in addition to a hundred fifty
Speaker 1: officers and a hundred fifty marines. Originally built as a
Speaker 1: gun cruiser, the U s S. Little Rock is unusual
Speaker 1: because it has two bridges as well as admiral's quarters.
Speaker 1: Designed for a Navy admiral to stay in Built between
Speaker 1: nineteen forty three and nineteen forty four and commissioned in
Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, the cruiser was too late to see
Speaker 1: action during World War Two, but still sailed before being
Speaker 1: decommissioned in nineteen forty nine. During that time, the ship
Speaker 1: saw its first major accident. On October thirty first, nineteen
Speaker 1: forty seven, a sailor named Donald H. Butler died when
Speaker 1: he was crushed between the ship and its booy chain.
Speaker 1: After she was decommissioned, the USS Little Rock underwent a
Speaker 1: major remodeling starting in nineteen fifty seven, becoming a Galveston
Speaker 1: class guided missile cruiser in nineteen sixty. As the park's
Speaker 1: history describes her work, she became a Cold War flagship
Speaker 1: of the second Fleet and the sixth Fleet. She patrolled
Speaker 1: the Atlantic from the Arctic Circle to South America and
Speaker 1: was a fixture in the Mediterranean Sea. She was a
Speaker 1: show of force during the turbulent nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1: In July nineteen sixty two, a sailor named Richard Smith
Speaker 1: died of injuries received in the Missile House Magazine from
Speaker 1: a high pressure hydraulic line failure. A few years later,
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven, the U S. S. Little Rock
Speaker 1: assisted the U S. S. Liberty when that ship was
Speaker 1: attacked by Israeli ships and aircraft. She aided in evacuating
Speaker 1: the wounded and assisted the Liberty with damage control efforts.
Speaker 1: Eight wounded men were treated in the ship's infirmary. In
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, the U. S. S. Little Rock was
Speaker 1: the only foreign warship in the official flotilla at the
Speaker 1: reopening of the Suez Canal. The next year, she helped
Speaker 1: to evacuate civilians from Beirut during the Lebanese Civil War.
Speaker 1: That was her last major mission. The U S. S.
Speaker 1: Little Rock was decommissioned in nineteen seventy six and donated
Speaker 1: to the Buffalo Naval Park in nineteen seventy seven. Today,
Speaker 1: spaces aboard the ship, such as the Admiral's quarters, fantail,
Speaker 1: and forecastle, can be rented for events like parties and weddings,
Speaker 1: and people can arrange to stay overnight in original enlisted
Speaker 1: sleeping compartments. The second tourable boat at the Buffalo Naval
Speaker 1: Park is the USS Croker, a three hundred eleven foot
Speaker 1: long submarine that is one of seventy seven Gaeto class
Speaker 1: submarines ever constructed. Eighty one sailors served on board the boat,
Speaker 1: which the park describes as part of the most lethal
Speaker 1: submarine class of World War Two. Commissioned in nineteen forty four,
Speaker 1: the USS Croker conducted six war patrols in the Pacific theater,
Speaker 1: sinking eleven Japanese vessels, four of which were capital or
Speaker 1: military vessels, and seven auxiliary or support vessels. Its first
Speaker 1: successful torpedo strike was just seven days into its first patrol.
Speaker 1: After World War Two, she was converted to a hunter
Speaker 1: killer submarine with added sonar, radar and quieting capabilities to combat.
Speaker 1: After World War Two, she was converted to a hunter
Speaker 1: killer submarine with added sonar, radar and quieting capability to
Speaker 1: combat the Russian threat during the Cold War, but was
Speaker 1: soon outdated with the development of nuclear technologies. The U
Speaker 1: S S Croaker was decommissioned in nineteen seventy one and
Speaker 1: arrived at the Buffalo Naval Park in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1: All three ships have reports of unexplained phenomena, but by
Speaker 1: far the ship with the most spookiness attached to it
Speaker 1: is the U. S. S. The Sullivan's a Fletcher class destroyer,
Speaker 1: the largest and most important class of US destroyers used
Speaker 1: in World War Two. The boat, three hundred seventy six
Speaker 1: ft long, housed three hundred ten soldiers. She has green
Speaker 1: shamrocks painted on her main deck and forward smokestack in
Speaker 1: tribute to the Irish American family. The boat is named
Speaker 1: after the U. S. S. The Sullivan's is named after
Speaker 1: five brothers who served on a similar ship in World
Speaker 1: War Two. The U S S. Juno, George Francis Madison,
Speaker 1: Joseph and Albert Sullivan were brothers from Waterloo, Iowa, who
Speaker 1: had asked to serve together on the same vessel. According
Speaker 1: to All Hands, the magazine of the U. S. Navy,
Speaker 1: the tragic story of the Sullivan brothers was the greatest
Speaker 1: military loss by any one American family during World War Two.
Speaker 1: On November thirteenth, ninety two, their ship, the USS Juno,
Speaker 1: was torpedoed by Japanese forces during the Battle of Guadalcanal.
Speaker 1: Hit by a torpedo for the second time in less
Speaker 1: than twelve hours, the ship sank in about twenty seconds.
Speaker 1: While only ten of the roughly seven hundred sailors aboard lived,
Speaker 1: many more of them survived. The initial sinking estimates put
Speaker 1: the number of survivors in the water anywhere from one
Speaker 1: hundred to two hundred men, but they were left behind
Speaker 1: by the two American ships nearby. Those boats fled without
Speaker 1: searching for survivors, assuming that no one could be left
Speaker 1: alive and fearful of future attacks. Almost all of the
Speaker 1: men who hit the water eventually died, primarily from hypernatremia
Speaker 1: caused by drinking seawater and from shark attacks. Among the
Speaker 1: survivors was George Sullivan, the eldest brother, who survived on
Speaker 1: a raft for several days. Another man, Allan Heind, shared
Speaker 1: that raft with Sullivan and was rescued after nine days
Speaker 1: at sea. According to an article published by the National
Speaker 1: World War Two Museum, Hein recalled how he shared a
Speaker 1: raft with the eldest Sullivan brother, George, who was desperately
Speaker 1: calling out for his deceased kin and stricken by inconsolable
Speaker 1: grief and slowly losing his mind due to lack of
Speaker 1: water and shock. Four days after Juno sank, George stripped
Speaker 1: off all his clothes, declared to Hind that he was
Speaker 1: going below to take a bath, slipped off the raft
Speaker 1: and swam away. Hind watched as George swam and suddenly disappeared,
Speaker 1: another victim of the sharks. According to Dan Kerzman's account
Speaker 1: of the sinking, left to die, George initially swam from
Speaker 1: raft to raft, using toilet paper to wipe off the
Speaker 1: men's oil blackened faces, to see if they were his brothers.
Speaker 1: Some survivors would later say that they believed either Albert
Speaker 1: or Joseph had survived the initials sinking, only to perish
Speaker 1: in the water. George had apparently told his mother, Alida Sullivan,
Speaker 1: that if they went down, they would all go out together,
Speaker 1: a statement which sadly came true in November nineteen forty two.
Speaker 1: The family was not officially notified of their deaths until
Speaker 1: January eleventh, ninety three due to military secrecy, although according
Speaker 1: to a history of Elita Sullivan, one of the survivors
Speaker 1: had already written to their mother that I am afraid
Speaker 1: all hope is gone for your boys. After the victory
Speaker 1: at Guadalcanal was secured, the Navy acknowledged that the Juno
Speaker 1: had gone down, but the true horror of the disaster
Speaker 1: wasn't revealed until after the war was over, when survivors
Speaker 1: shared their stories. After the death of the Sullivan brothers,
Speaker 1: their only remaining sibling, sister Genevieve, joined the Waves women
Speaker 1: accepted for Volunteer Emergency Services, a unit of the Navy.
Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three. The Sullivan Brothers became national icons,
Speaker 1: with recruitment posters of their five smiling faces aboard Juno
Speaker 1: on her commissioning day over the slogan they Did Their Part,
Speaker 1: distributed nationwide that same year, then be dedicated the U.
Speaker 1: S S the Sullivan's, the first ship ever commissioned that
Speaker 1: honored more than one single person. The boat was launched
Speaker 1: on September thirtieth, nineteen forty three, with the brother's mother, Alita,
Speaker 1: christening the ship. A film version of their story the
Speaker 1: fighting Sullivan's was released in nineteen forty four. The movie
Speaker 1: ends with a scene of Alita christening the U. S. S.
Speaker 1: The Sullivan's and saying to her husband, tom our boys
Speaker 1: are afloat again. The USS the Sullivan saw action in
Speaker 1: the Pacific Theater, shooting down eight Japanese planes bombarding Iwo, Jima,
Speaker 1: and Okinawa, as well as rescuing American pilots and crew
Speaker 1: from burning her sinking vessels. She also saw action during
Speaker 1: the Korean War and the Cuban Missile Crisis, and was
Speaker 1: used as a training ship for the sixth Fleet after
Speaker 1: the Korean War. The U. S. S. The Sullivan's was
Speaker 1: decommissioned in nineteen sixty five and donated to the Buffalo
Speaker 1: Naval Park in nineteen seventy seven. With all of that
Speaker 1: wartime service and tragic history attached to the ships, it's
Speaker 1: no wonder there are so many accounts of un usual
Speaker 1: phenomena in Buffalo Naval Park, but at the park those
Speaker 1: phenomena are largely considered a normal part of operations. John Browning,
Speaker 1: the superintendent of Buffalo Naval Parks, set on a local
Speaker 1: newscast that he wasn't scared of the hauntings. It's just
Speaker 1: former crew members. We're all shipmates. They're going about their business.
Speaker 1: I'm going about mine. They leave me alone, I leave
Speaker 1: them alone. That's the way I look at it. People
Speaker 1: who visit the U. S. S. Little Rock have said
Speaker 1: they've heard phantom footsteps and mysterious whispers aboard the ship.
Speaker 1: A water tap and a sink is said to turn
Speaker 1: itself on, and people have reported seeing shadow figures in
Speaker 1: full bodied apparitions, including a figure dressed in an admiral's
Speaker 1: uniform who is said to walk the deck. The ghosts
Speaker 1: of two sailors are believed to haunt the USS Little Rock.
Speaker 1: One is said to be lonely and often follows female
Speaker 1: visitors around the ship, and the other one likes to
Speaker 1: play tricks on guests. People also believe there is a
Speaker 1: spectral security guard aboard. According to Haunted houses dot Com,
Speaker 1: people who are within earshot but not in the same
Speaker 1: room as their belongings have heard our bags being unzipped,
Speaker 1: someone rummaging around in their bags, and then zipped again.
Speaker 1: While some claim that these phantoms are due to injured
Speaker 1: sailors from the U S. S. Liberty dying aboard the ship,
Speaker 1: the U. S. S. Little Rock took only eight of
Speaker 1: the walking wounded, and it doesn't appear that any of
Speaker 1: them died. Aboard the U. S. S. Croker, shadow figures
Speaker 1: have been reported, and female visitors report being touched by
Speaker 1: unseen hands, especially in the submarines bunk rooms. Visitors have
Speaker 1: heard instruments playing in radio transmissions, as well as footsteps
Speaker 1: and disembodied voices, as Haunted Houses dot Com describes them.
Speaker 1: The disembodied voices maybe the spectral crew still serving their country.
Speaker 1: One male spirit is very clear with his voice and
Speaker 1: interacts with the living like the phantom security guard aboard
Speaker 1: the U. S. S. Little Rock and unseen Force also
Speaker 1: zips and unzips bags aboard the U. S. S. Croker,
Speaker 1: enforcing the submarines strict rules against contraband even in death.
Speaker 1: Aboard the U. S. S. Croker is a ghost named
Speaker 1: John who is an angry spirit who pulls people's hair
Speaker 1: and breathes down next according to those who have experienced
Speaker 1: the phenomena. According to Haunted Rooms dot Com, he sometimes
Speaker 1: even blocks passageways and refuses to let people pass. Stomping
Speaker 1: sounds on the deck, as well as spectral growls have
Speaker 1: been attributed to John. Many believe that he was a
Speaker 1: sailor who died while serving on the U. S. S. Croker,
Speaker 1: and who resents non Navy people coming aboard his submarine.
Speaker 1: The most haunted of the three by far, though, is
Speaker 1: the U. S S. The Sullivan's. According to Michael Swain's
Speaker 1: Haunted World War Two, paranormal reports aboard the U. S. S.
Speaker 1: The Sullivan's started soon after the ship was decommissioned. As
Speaker 1: he wrote, one of the first documented supernatural reports circulated
Speaker 1: soon after the ship was retired in nineteen sixty nine.
Speaker 1: According to one account, workers saw a heavy wrench levitate
Speaker 1: off a table and sail across the room. George Sullivan,
Speaker 1: the eldest brother and the one who survived the longest
Speaker 1: after the U. S. S. Juno Sank, is said to
Speaker 1: haunt his namesake boat, searching for his four brothers. According
Speaker 1: to Haunted Buffalo, it is also said that when you
Speaker 1: attempt to photograph the Museum of the Sullivan Boys, George
Speaker 1: will not come out in the photo. It's said that
Speaker 1: if your camera batteries don't die before you can take
Speaker 1: the shot, a mysterious mist will cover his face. Journalist
Speaker 1: Phil Nye wrote an article on the Haunted Battleships of
Speaker 1: Buffalo saying, one tour guide reported being below decks and
Speaker 1: having a porso with a burned, disfigured face approach him
Speaker 1: at a fast rate of speed. The figure was floating
Speaker 1: above the ground, and the employee believed it to be
Speaker 1: the ghost of George Sullivan. It's also thought that his
Speaker 1: brothers sometimes join him. Some accounts describe five luminous forms
Speaker 1: in passageways. Moaning, footsteps, and knocking have been heard aboard
Speaker 1: the ship at night, and guards work in the night
Speaker 1: shift have also reported hearing a voice that says, hey you.
Speaker 1: According to Haunted World War two, other employees say the
Speaker 1: ghosts on the U s as the Sullivan's, who many
Speaker 1: presume are one or all of the Sullivan's, can get physical.
Speaker 1: One worker woke up on the hard deck of the ship.
Speaker 1: It's certainly not a place to sneak a nap during
Speaker 1: his shift. He had no idea how he got there
Speaker 1: and believed some mysterious and invisible force knocked him unconscious.
Speaker 1: Sometimes instruments aboard the ship continue to operate even when
Speaker 1: the power has been shut off. Haunted World War two
Speaker 1: describe the account of one staff member, Eddie Kirkwood. He
Speaker 1: claimed that during a party on board the ship, the
Speaker 1: guests began to thank him for putting on a little
Speaker 1: bit of an extra show for them. Kirkwood was confused.
Speaker 1: He had no idea what they were talking about, but
Speaker 1: he played along. They then pointed to a spinning radar dish.
Speaker 1: It made for a pretty cool party effect, they all agreed. Kirkwood, however,
Speaker 1: didn't consider this naval version of a spinning disco ball
Speaker 1: entertainment at all. He knew that he had turned off
Speaker 1: the circuit breaker that killed the power to the radar.
Speaker 1: An elderly couple on a tour once praised the helpfulness
Speaker 1: of an officer who gave them directions, only to be
Speaker 1: told no officer was on board the ship that day.
Speaker 1: According to Haunted Buffalo, a group of girl scouts staying
Speaker 1: overnight on the ship also woke to find that all
Speaker 1: pictures in the ship's museum had fallen to the ground.
Speaker 1: Probably not what they signed up for With all those stories,
Speaker 1: we should probably talk to someone in the know at
Speaker 1: the Buffalo Naval Park. Up next, I've got Shane Stevenson
Speaker 1: joining us. He is the director of museum collections at
Speaker 1: the park, and he's no stranger to the paranormal reports
Speaker 1: there that's coming up after the break. All right, So
Speaker 1: now I am joined by Shane Stevenson, who is the
Speaker 1: director of museum Collections at the Buffalo Naval Park. So
Speaker 1: thank you for joining me, Shane. I super appreciate it. Oh,
Speaker 1: you're very welcome. Amy happy to be here. So before
Speaker 1: we get started, I'm just dying to know because I
Speaker 1: watched this in the news over the last few months,
Speaker 1: what is happening with the U s s the Sullivan's,
Speaker 1: Like I saw she was taking on water. The pictures
Speaker 1: looked really scary, So what's the status there. The pictures
Speaker 1: didn't make it scary, but the actual event made it scary.
Speaker 1: So yes, it was all in all a really trying
Speaker 1: a month and a half two months, but we rustled
Speaker 1: up many different organizations, the coast Guard, a salvage company,
Speaker 1: a local marine company, an environmental company, and we all
Speaker 1: worked towards a pumping her out. She had sank at
Speaker 1: our pier which it was about eighteen feet of water,
Speaker 1: and she had about a million gallons of water on
Speaker 1: board and about forty thousand gallons of product or oil
Speaker 1: on board left over from her service uh and from nine.
Speaker 1: So we all worked slowly and diligently, and we pumped
Speaker 1: the water out in a way that didn't put any
Speaker 1: extra stress on her hull, and we were to raise
Speaker 1: her and then patch her and repair her. And so
Speaker 1: right now she's stable, she is upright and floating, and
Speaker 1: now we're developing next steps for her to secure her
Speaker 1: for the next fifty or seventy five years. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: The photo that I saw, I mean, like you said,
Speaker 1: she was, she was sunk. Just I have such great
Speaker 1: memories of investigating there with ghost hunters. I was just
Speaker 1: I was so impressed by just the the collections and
Speaker 1: these ships themselves, and just I really liked my time there.
Speaker 1: And I saw that, my heart just sunk. So I'm
Speaker 1: really glad that you were able to at least get
Speaker 1: her floating again. I'm I'm sure there was damage to
Speaker 1: the collections inside and whatnot, but it sounds like you
Speaker 1: guys have assembled a great team to kind of get
Speaker 1: things hopefully put back together. Yeah, thank you. As my job,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes vernacularly called the curator, it was my
Speaker 1: job to pull off all of the artifacts that were
Speaker 1: displayed on board, recattle logged them. See if we can
Speaker 1: get preservation and conservation team here to make sure that
Speaker 1: they can be preserved as best as possible. So that's
Speaker 1: what my summer has been. And I've been working with
Speaker 1: a conservator and You've developed a really strong volunteer program
Speaker 1: that's all been trained and so we are slowly preserving
Speaker 1: all that can be preserved from that ship. And thank
Speaker 1: you for being here in the past. Oh yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: always championing the Buffalo Naval Park online, always retweeting all
Speaker 1: your tweets. I always tell people to go there. Um,
Speaker 1: I just think it's a really important spot. And so
Speaker 1: that being said, you know my time there, obviously we
Speaker 1: were there for the ghosts, but you know, we always
Speaker 1: try to be very respectful to whenever military history is involved,
Speaker 1: um in our investigations. But you know, I did have
Speaker 1: some pretty wild experiences there, which I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people report. I think mainly I remember hearing a
Speaker 1: lot of voices. Adam and I heard many voices. We
Speaker 1: were in the submarine, which I'm hugely claustrophobia, and every
Speaker 1: time I go into a submarine, I'm just amazed and
Speaker 1: how people lived in those for months at a time.
Speaker 1: And uh, and then I remember also we had a
Speaker 1: major experience with footsteps going overhead. So are those just
Speaker 1: kind of things that happened there on the regular? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say absolutely. The footsteps I have not heard
Speaker 1: as much, but certainly voices we have heard throughout each
Speaker 1: of our ships. And it is extremely eerie, as you know,
Speaker 1: you know, to be here overnight, and when you believe
Speaker 1: you're the only people on board, you know, it's it
Speaker 1: can be a very unique, interesting experience for sure. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that when we investigate any vessel on water,
Speaker 1: it does create this kind of host of unusual circumstances
Speaker 1: and sounds that we're not completely familiar with, and so
Speaker 1: we have to kind of, you know, take that into
Speaker 1: consideration as we investigate. But the voices were pretty clear,
Speaker 1: and it's strange because they do sound just like male voices,
Speaker 1: um sometimes kind of stern or sometimes I remember I
Speaker 1: was hearing some chatter in another room. It sounded almost
Speaker 1: like they were laughing. And when we investigated with ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: it would be Adam and me, a camera operator and
Speaker 1: a sound person and so you know, it's four of
Speaker 1: us on that entire ship, and so to hear voices
Speaker 1: is really eerie. It is your you know, there's some
Speaker 1: things that you can chalk up amy too, just being
Speaker 1: a ship that's in water that wrote you know, that
Speaker 1: moves and rolls and pitches with the wind and the water.
Speaker 1: But when you have an experience that is real enough
Speaker 1: to where it actually changes your behavior, then for me,
Speaker 1: that's what my experience has been. Like I would spent
Speaker 1: the night on board the various ships multiple times in
Speaker 1: my working career here and there's a potential moment where
Speaker 1: I hear something and I actually respond to it, like
Speaker 1: I called back or I stopped, and that is that's
Speaker 1: I usually can differentiate pretty quickly, just even unconsciously, when
Speaker 1: you're walking through oh that's a creek. That's a creek,
Speaker 1: and you just keep going. Then when there's something that
Speaker 1: I actually stop and start talking to and then you
Speaker 1: realize that you know, there's no one else there, so
Speaker 1: it changes your behavior. And that's something that's really startling
Speaker 1: to me, is that I was potentially so affected by
Speaker 1: it that I called back out or I stopped walking
Speaker 1: or you know something, you know because of just that
Speaker 1: unconscious you know, noise that you just normally here on board. Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: were you a believer in ghosts before you took the
Speaker 1: position at the Buffalo Naval Park. Um, I hadn't quite
Speaker 1: figured it out yet fully, I mean, ultimately I haven't either,
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I think, and some people when
Speaker 1: I have conversations about this, it's you almost have to
Speaker 1: go down, you know. Then you have to answer like
Speaker 1: almost like religion. And I don't know how far you
Speaker 1: want to go. But you know, if I say, if
Speaker 1: I'm a nonbeliever in an afterlife, if I have experiences,
Speaker 1: then I have to say, oh, well, now I have
Speaker 1: to start believing in some sort of higher being. Right.
Speaker 1: And sometimes people tell me, you know that you don't
Speaker 1: have to get to that point, but no, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'd never really had anything on before working here that
Speaker 1: would have led me to believe like, oh, there's something
Speaker 1: in the afterlife, right, I mean, And it sounds like
Speaker 1: you know, you you come at it from like a
Speaker 1: pragmatic viewpoint, you know, And I'm very similar where even
Speaker 1: in all that I do, I will never tell people
Speaker 1: that ghosts are real. Like I know, I've seen and
Speaker 1: experience very strange things. I believe it could be the
Speaker 1: spirits of people who have passed on and are still
Speaker 1: here for whatever reason. But I don't absolutely know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's always I guess the best way of tackling an
Speaker 1: amy is uh if and when there's ever definitive proof,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe some people claim there is definitive, but
Speaker 1: you know when I started there was I started working
Speaker 1: here in two thousand eighteen, you know. There for the
Speaker 1: people that were on board many years before me, they
Speaker 1: just say, oh, you know, you might hear something, you
Speaker 1: might see something, but just know that there benevolent and
Speaker 1: you're you're carrying on their story and their tradition, and
Speaker 1: so you're pretty all set. That's a good way to
Speaker 1: handle it. What was your first experience where you were like, okay, this,
Speaker 1: there's something to this. Just using the terminology. Hallways on
Speaker 1: ships are passageways, right, So so I was walking down
Speaker 1: a passageway which connected to larger rooms or spaces, and
Speaker 1: they both have those water type doors on either side,
Speaker 1: so you have to spin the wheel, unlock one, then
Speaker 1: you batten it down and then you walk through this
Speaker 1: little darkened passage way and then you unseal the other one,
Speaker 1: and then you walk through to the other space. So
Speaker 1: for that thirty seconds or whatever that where you're in
Speaker 1: the dark space, the darken space, I could swear I
Speaker 1: heard some scratching and like almost like a growl, which
Speaker 1: was interesting. And again talking just how I mentioned a
Speaker 1: few minutes ago, it made me alter my behavior, so
Speaker 1: it didn't sound like a natural thing with the ship
Speaker 1: moving and creaking and you know, I mean they're seventy
Speaker 1: seventy nine years old, all of our ships, so uh,
Speaker 1: you know in there prone to the elements. But I
Speaker 1: stopped and I said, you know, in my head, I said, wow,
Speaker 1: what was that. I didn't have a flashlight with me
Speaker 1: or anything, so I just kept going. And that would
Speaker 1: have been my first experience. Have people come to you,
Speaker 1: like maybe visitors or whatever and described some sort of
Speaker 1: wild experience they had where you were just left completely
Speaker 1: scratching your head. Uh. It is very interesting, and I'm
Speaker 1: not an expert in it, but there's some people that
Speaker 1: you know, just reading and researching this, that people you know,
Speaker 1: have sensitivity and there's a spectrum of sensitivity levels. And
Speaker 1: I have talked to many people that exhibit or you know,
Speaker 1: mentioned that they have a sensitivity to spirits or the unknown,
Speaker 1: so to speak, and they really have very interesting experiences
Speaker 1: that I don't have. Right, if they have a sensitivity
Speaker 1: to it, they will experience stuff almost throughout the whole ship.
Speaker 1: They say, I don't have anything specific, but it's just
Speaker 1: talking to people on board. They say, oh my god.
Speaker 1: You know, I was walking through the Little Rock or
Speaker 1: the Sullivan's and almost every space that I went into, uh,
Speaker 1: I felt something. And I say, well, I don't have
Speaker 1: that sensitivity, so it's just a room to me, so
Speaker 1: to speak, or a space or something. But for someone
Speaker 1: that has that sensitivity, they say, they experience a lot
Speaker 1: of different things on board. So yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: could imagine that. I guess I don't have that sensitivity,
Speaker 1: but I mean I feel like probably there's a lot
Speaker 1: of residual energy and that kind of spectrum probably left
Speaker 1: in those kinds of places. A lot happened there over
Speaker 1: the years, so it makes sense. Has there ever been
Speaker 1: an experience either you have had or someone has come
Speaker 1: to you with that made you at all nervous? One
Speaker 1: other experience that I've had was probably right when the
Speaker 1: It's not related to the Sullivans, but we've heard many
Speaker 1: things about the Sullivan's. I have not experienced them. I
Speaker 1: have been on board alone at night on the Sullivan's
Speaker 1: and I have not experienced anything. But people mentioned, certainly
Speaker 1: in the mess decks where the crew eight, they can
Speaker 1: see a face by the what's called the scuttle butt,
Speaker 1: which would be like the water fountain, and there's some
Speaker 1: degradation to the face, for lack of a better word,
Speaker 1: either part of it has been burned. I had not
Speaker 1: experience that, but that could obviously, that could be a
Speaker 1: pretty scary experience for someone if they see a face
Speaker 1: that has been burned with fire is kind of floating
Speaker 1: and appearing in front of them. Another experience I had
Speaker 1: on the Little Rock, and that's why I brought in
Speaker 1: the Sullivan's, was it was right around when the sullivan sank,
Speaker 1: and so all of the crew was working on the
Speaker 1: Sullivan's on the main decks and things like that, and
Speaker 1: so I was the only person on board the Little Rock.
Speaker 1: And again in one of those passageways, I was in
Speaker 1: my office and maybe about fifteen feet away there's a door,
Speaker 1: just a regular what we call a panel door, but
Speaker 1: it looks like a door in your house, right, And
Speaker 1: it opened and shut, and I did one of those
Speaker 1: things again change my behavior. I called out, I said,
Speaker 1: I'm in here if anyone needs me, just thinking that
Speaker 1: they were walking around, you know, and maybe someone was
Speaker 1: looking for me. So some you know, a coworker crew.
Speaker 1: So I called out, I said, you know, I'm in
Speaker 1: my office if anyone is looking for me. And then
Speaker 1: thing So then I get on our rocky talkies and
Speaker 1: I say, hey, is anyone else on the little rock
Speaker 1: besides me? And Everyone's like, no, We're all on the
Speaker 1: Sullivan's doing work. And so I was like, okay, that
Speaker 1: can catch you off guard, especially when you're completely alone.
Speaker 1: You're like, okay, if you can move that, what else
Speaker 1: can you move? Right? And again I don't think of
Speaker 1: it in those terms of they're moving objects in the
Speaker 1: physical world. But it's really tough to, you know, say
Speaker 1: what else that could have been. I mean, if it
Speaker 1: more opens and shuts on board, I mean we're probably
Speaker 1: moving that day. And you know, sometimes the doors move
Speaker 1: an inch this way or an inch that way based
Speaker 1: on our swaying and you know, moving starboard deport a
Speaker 1: little bit, just rocking with the waves, but not something
Speaker 1: like that. Did you notice an uptake in any paranormal
Speaker 1: activity when the Sullivan's sank. Did anybody report anything extra
Speaker 1: when that happened? I do not have a recollection. That
Speaker 1: would have been prime time. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: the responders were down below, you know, surveying and analyzing
Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't remember hearing any stories from them now.
Speaker 1: That would have been their first time on board right well.
Speaker 1: And also there was It's probably just a flurry of
Speaker 1: of things you were all doing, you know, It's one
Speaker 1: of those things sometimes you don't notice the paranormal unless
Speaker 1: you're kind of sitting in silence for whatever reason, which
Speaker 1: I assume everyone was working pretty fervently to try to
Speaker 1: get things fixed at that point. You know what, Amy,
Speaker 1: that's true, That's absolutely true. Now. One of the areas
Speaker 1: that was really took a lot of damage was the
Speaker 1: mess deck, where I say, people have seen their face
Speaker 1: that has been burnt. Even today, there's no electricity on board,
Speaker 1: so someone goes down below, it's dark. I have been down,
Speaker 1: you know, collecting the artifacts and taking them off board
Speaker 1: and taking them to our conservation room. But your mind
Speaker 1: is really focused on other things, and uh, you're scrambling
Speaker 1: and scurrying, and you know, maybe just at that moment,
Speaker 1: those moments were not being as sensitive as we may
Speaker 1: be to that situation. Maybe Kindred Spirits needs to come investigate.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a hollow ship right now. And you
Speaker 1: know there's there's one death from one sailor and in
Speaker 1: World War two and the family is very involved here
Speaker 1: and it would be interesting to see, you know, of
Speaker 1: course with the five brothers, and they're untimely passing altogether. Uh. Certainly,
Speaker 1: any warship brings that sort of traumatic human experience where
Speaker 1: things can not go according to plan, I guess so
Speaker 1: to speak. Yeah, I mean it makes sense. Which of
Speaker 1: the ships would you say is like the most haunted?
Speaker 1: To me, I would say the Little Rock, our cruiser
Speaker 1: USS Little Rock is certainly it's the large. It did
Speaker 1: have the most, uh, sailor deaths on it, and it
Speaker 1: was only I think three during her service, but Sullivan's
Speaker 1: was one. USS Croker had some injuries, but no sailors
Speaker 1: passing or perishing on board. So the Little Rock with
Speaker 1: three sailors during her service perishing on board, and even
Speaker 1: we had someone passed when he was visiting. He was
Speaker 1: an old Little Rock sailor and he was spending the
Speaker 1: night on board and unfortunately had a heart attack on
Speaker 1: board and passed away while he was in his bump. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's kind of a full circle moment. Now,
Speaker 1: do you guys do ghost tours or anything still or
Speaker 1: nighttime tours? Well? I think with the COVID pandemic that
Speaker 1: really slowed that sort of event on board. Um, but
Speaker 1: we're slowly bringing it back. Yeah, for those that are
Speaker 1: interested in being here. One of the things that we
Speaker 1: believe can cause hauntings is sometimes just objects themselves. You know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes things will be brought from other locations that might
Speaker 1: have some sort of tragedy associated with them. Um. Is
Speaker 1: there anything like that on display there that might have
Speaker 1: come from someplace that could maybe have some energy with
Speaker 1: it that might be causing some of your activity. That
Speaker 1: is a great question and one that I would be
Speaker 1: hard to come right off the top of my head.
Speaker 1: I know, certainly we have diaries of men that had
Speaker 1: bad experiences during World War Two. We do have a
Speaker 1: POW uniform from Vietnam that's on display. For those that
Speaker 1: are still m i A from the Vietnam conflict. They
Speaker 1: create bracelets, and so we have bracelets on display with
Speaker 1: their names and the last date of when they were
Speaker 1: not missing and when they were still with their platoon
Speaker 1: or whatever. So I believe those few items in the
Speaker 1: Vietnam exhibit can probably have that bad essence to it.
Speaker 1: I think we found that a lot with places that
Speaker 1: display a lot of kind of military memorabilia, you know,
Speaker 1: depending on where it came from or you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the location, it's the items themselves, and
Speaker 1: so you know, maybe just over time as things happen,
Speaker 1: maybe pay attention to where or what they might be around.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's not even something associated with someone who
Speaker 1: served on the ship. It could be someone completely different.
Speaker 1: That is uh. That definitely excuse my thinking in a
Speaker 1: different direction, which I hadn't considered before. So I appreciate that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I should see, you know, around our Vietnam exhibit, you know,
Speaker 1: we have a jacket from someone that was killed the local.
Speaker 1: We have a jacket from the local nurse that was killed.
Speaker 1: Right off the top, we have three or four items
Speaker 1: of people that perished in Vietnam that are on display
Speaker 1: their personal effects in their items. So I'll try to
Speaker 1: be more sensitive to that. I always thinking outside the box,
Speaker 1: like what else could it be? You know, because sometimes
Speaker 1: we're investigating places that don't really have a lot of
Speaker 1: death or tragedy associated with them particularly, but like we'll
Speaker 1: have a ton of activity going on, and so it's
Speaker 1: kind of our job to narrow it down. You know,
Speaker 1: look what else happened in the area, or are there
Speaker 1: items here that it could be our emotions running high
Speaker 1: for other reasons. You know, there's all sorts of theories
Speaker 1: out there. So but that being said, if people want
Speaker 1: to visit the park, what should they do? Is it
Speaker 1: open year round or they are better times to visit
Speaker 1: or yeah, sure, thanks Amy. We are open because we're
Speaker 1: in Buffalo. Were only open for a spring, summer, and fall,
Speaker 1: so we usually open up, you know, the last weekend
Speaker 1: in March, and we run right through about Thanksgiving, so
Speaker 1: around roughly around the last weekend in November, and then
Speaker 1: we do shut down for the winter. Our website is
Speaker 1: Buffalo Naval Park all one word dot O r G
Speaker 1: or dot org Buffalo Naval Park dot org, and they
Speaker 1: can purchase tickets online, they can search through some photographs
Speaker 1: and really learn about our park right from our website,
Speaker 1: and certainly we're on social media with Facebook and Instagram
Speaker 1: and our YouTube Channel as well, so I remember being
Speaker 1: there and it was very cold, so that's kind of uh,
Speaker 1: it's kind of the m O with our shows. We
Speaker 1: go usually when things are kind of off season, so
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it was winter when I
Speaker 1: went there, because I have a picture of me standing
Speaker 1: on the little rock in a great, big winter coat,
Speaker 1: so that makes absolute sense. It could have been in
Speaker 1: the fall when we're beginning to wind down, and yeah,
Speaker 1: the the ships themselves get as hot, and what for
Speaker 1: those areas that are not heated or air conditioned, they
Speaker 1: get as cold as it is outside or they get
Speaker 1: as hot as it is outside, depending on the season.
Speaker 1: So very much worth of visit. I highly recommend it
Speaker 1: to everyone. I really appreciate you taking the time to
Speaker 1: chat with me, and we'll have to chat offline and
Speaker 1: maybe we can arrange a visit soon. I think that'd
Speaker 1: be really great. Great. Thank you so much, Amy. I'm
Speaker 1: happy to be here and I hope your viewers and
Speaker 1: listeners enjoy it. Investigating places like the Buffalo Naval Park
Speaker 1: is tricky because you want to get to the bottom
Speaker 1: of the haunting, but you also want to be incredibly
Speaker 1: respectful of the people who served and sacrificed so much
Speaker 1: for our country. I urge anyone investigating a location steeped
Speaker 1: in military history to do your due diligence before doing so.
Speaker 1: Remember this is not a novelty. Most likely, any spirits
Speaker 1: you encounter feel they are still performing what they consider
Speaker 1: to be a sacred duty. Nevertheless, seeking spirits are not
Speaker 1: I highly encourage a trip to the Buffalo Naval Park.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed my time there, and I know you
Speaker 1: will too. I am Amy Bruney and this was Haunted Rode.
Speaker 1: Haunted Road is hosted and written by me Amy Bruney,
Speaker 1: with additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra day Alba.
Speaker 1: This show is edited and produced by rema El Kali,
Speaker 1: with supervising producer Josh Thayne and executive producers Aaron Manky,
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. Haunted Road is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey.
Speaker 1: Learn more about this show over at Grimm and Mild
Speaker 1: dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.